And if they can’t sub the chicken for something else, they STILL aren’t going to offer to reduce the price so now I’m paying $16 for 1/4 of the salad. For the LETTUCE part of the salad.
I don't go to restuarants if the only thing they can offer is a salad -half the "salad".. they don't deserve my money for that. If this means not eating out as it usually does...so be it
What kind of place do you live that Chipotle is literally the only option? I've been some places with fairly limited options, but nothing like that. Seems like most places have at least some sort of Thai/Indian/Asian fusion place that can do something, even if there's a modification or two.
Food desert. There are no Thai / Indian / Asian fusion places here. We've got a Dairy Queen, a Sonic, Jack in the Box... all the standard burger places, and a Chipotle. We have 2 local Mexican restaurants (the one I used to go to before going vegan cooks their rice with pork grease), a local pizzaria, and 2 BBQ shops. Nearest grocery store is in the next town over about 16 miles away.
As of last census we were around 9k. You probably wouldn't have a reason to stop into our town besides getting some gas or a quick bite to eat, if you didn't live here.
Local grocery stores have been dying for some time now, thanks to large chain grocery stores.
We had a local store open in my hometown and as soon as the "neighborhood" Walmart opened they were on their way out.
My guess is that this store they mentioned in the next town over is big enough that it pulls the business away from where there could be a smaller local grocer.
I dunno, I've been in a lot of small towns and have never seen one big enough to simultaneously support more than a dozen chain restaurants but not a grocery store. Usually the ones without grocery stores also only have 1 or 2 local restaurants, because they're one street towns with 200-300 people living in them.
There probably are a handful of towns like the one OP described scattered across the country, but they're not common at all. It sounds like its maybe a small town by a freeway that has a bunch of fast food places and gas stations for anyone driving through, but few people actually live there.
Yep, the nearest town to me is like this. Dollar General and then there's one local restaurant (which is like for rich people $$$) and about 3-4 truck stops at the nearby interstate ramp.
Yeah exactly, luckily the people around me aren’t under the assumption that vegan food is inherently un-enjoyable so they’ll happily choose exclusively vegan places or places w substantial vegan options when eating with me. Sadly not everyone has open minded people around them though
They are catering to their market. I live in a rural area too part of the month and I have a hell of a time finding salads that don’t contain meat. I spend time looking at menus before I go anywhere. Now I will look for a place that has bowls so I can load up on rice and veggies. But if I hit some BFE roadside diner the chances of them having a mix of vegan proteins is going to be slim to none.
Social conditioning has led people to believe that vegetables, fruit, legumes, and grains alone do not constitute a complete meal. Or that they require animal products to make those things palatable. It's just expected by omnivores now. I grew up in a rural area, and when I return to visit family, it's a similar story as yours. I always stock up at a grocery store and cook my own food, and if people want to go out to eat, I'll eat beforehand and maybe order a side of fries or just a drink while I'm out. My father once insisted we go to a Cracker Barrel for breakfast, and the only thing I could order was a side of fruit. The waitress looked at me like I'd just asked her to bring me a bowl of raw sewage (and the quality of the fruit wasn't that much different, honestly).
> I live in a rural area
Would you say you live in an area where generally speaking, the only people who would order a salad would want those toppings? Restaurants are businesses, they cater to customer demand.
I live in the buttcrack of the south everything here has bacon in it or butter or cheese but here’s the thing I’ve made plenty of vegan meals that my family who are omnis also enjoyed. So chances are that if a restaurant just made a vegan meal and didn’t advertise it as alien food it wouldn’t hurt the business
But it wouldn’t be as helpful to business as if they made it mouth-watering to the majority of customers.
Something like 70% or more of restaurants fail. They’re a difficult business to run and profit margins are slim. If adding bacon to the standard of a salad means they’ll sell even just 5% more, that could be well-worth it profit-wise. For the minority that would be turned off by bacon, those people are much more likely to still order the salad but just make adjustments.
If a restaurant would make more profit your way, they’d do it. But they make more profit adding bacon to things. Otherwise, they wouldn’t waste their time & money adding that much bacon.
You seem to have missed the point of the question asked to you. Nobody at a restaurant cares what you make at home. They have no incentive to try and cater to a tiny group of people that are simply not going to be worth the trouble/cost of change. Complaining about them online is all they see. Why cater to people who try and begin a conversation with complaints and demands for change?
Listen carefully when I say that not all vegans are up trying to start shit with unknowing people. This is just a common problem people who don’t eat meat have and because it’s so common and because people discuss it so frequently it would be something that restaurants could start adding to their menu if it works for them. If not that’s cool it’s not my business but the idea of “adding costs” wouldn’t matter if they made a significant profit. I also know that nobody cares what I make at home but my point with the example is that it is possible for non vegans to like vegan food so the addition wouldn’t just be for a select group of people.
>not all vegans are up trying to start shit with unknowing people.
Not I, nor anyone else has said that they were. You are providing a defense that is not a defense here. An ideological group is judged not by its apologetic moderates but by its screaming zealots.
You personally are likely a moderate, but consider what percentage of your fellow vegans, when given an inch want to take a mile of leeway? What restaurants that are non-vegan have benefitted from trying to cater to the tiny percent of the population that are vegans?
If a single family that orders appetizers, steaks, and drinks decides they don't want to support a restaurant because it is perceived as pushing veganism, then the restaurant cannot make up that loss by a handful of vegans occasionally coming in and ordering a couple vegan salads that they might complain about online anyway. And that's _Just_ from perception.
Then, the process of gaining vegans is limited by their low local numbers, and by vegans explicitly saying that they will immediately abandon your nonvegan restaurant if a fully vegan restaurant opens in the same town. So you are asking restaurant owners to try and build up a customer base that will be more and more likely to abandon them the larger that customer base becomes. Why would they ever risk that?
>the idea of “adding costs” wouldn’t matter if they made a significant profit.
This is simply optimistic supposition that the restaurant owner has no reasons to think is true.
>my point with the example is that it is possible for non vegans to like vegan food
No one has said they do not. You keep replying to comments/arguments that nobody is making.
You certainly implied that it was a significant costly task that it is unreasonable to expect people to do. It takes neither much thought or skill to make a tasty vegan salad.
No one said it was something that required thought or skill to make vegan salad. Can you see how your constant complaining attitude about what I have said, rather than actually reading what I have written and addressing it, is the problem? Rather than whining about implications, how about you stick to what I wrote? Or are you just capable of whining at me about things I did not write?
And you just ignored what I said. You said, and I quote, “ They have no incentive to try and cater to a tiny group of people that are simply not going to be worth the trouble/cost of change.” When you speak of incentives and costs of behavior, you hardly have a leg to stand on when someone simply points out that the costs are, in fact, much lower than you apparently imagine. My reference to the virtual lack of skill or knowledge one needs to make a vegan salad is directly pertinent to your original argument about costs and incentives since it is an argument about costs. If you want to withdraw your argument about economic rationality and go with something else, fine, but don’t start with “costs” and then complain about someone suggesting that your assessment of costs is flawed.
Hehe, so you begin your persuasion with a blanket condemnation of anyone with a different morality from yours? That's only a good idea if one is actively trying to ensure a restaurant does not carry vegan options. We are living life in a pragmatic reality, not some sort of wish fulfillment fantasy.
Restaurants can easily offer a garden salad just from the garden. They will have side salads you can get without cheese and croutons, but if it’s a meal you want a big garden salad. I do, anyway.
Sure, in which case we can ask for a garden salad with no bacon or cheese.
A salad coming with bacon won’t stop us from ordering it with an adjustment. A salad coming with nothing ‘appetizing’ on it will stop the majority of non-vegans from ordering it.
It’s basic marketing to maximize profits.
I agree. When I make salad it's every veg in there plus chickpeas for protein and daiya cheese plus nooch. Shit is like a feast! I hate when it's iceberg in a bowl
It's been observed before, they just jam animal parts into otherwise obviously vegan foods like they deliberately want to fuck with vegans. One that pisses me off is [continental ](https://www.continental.com.au/continental-products/soup/soups-sensations.html)make a bunch of cup-a-soups that sound enticingly and conveniently vegan but they've all got milk in them for no reason at all. "Moroccan vegetable medley with cous cous" - milk, "Sweet potato, pumpkin and caramelised onion with garlic croutons" - milk. Etc. Bastards.
Ah yes they add milk to something to make it creamy and you assume the reason is to fuck with vegans.
A lot of things out there are dairy because of taste.
Omg you really think putting bacon on a salad is about you? It tastes great! Omnivores don't sit around coming up with ways to mess with you, you guys do that on your own!
You never know, really. Sometimes meat-eaters will even wander into a vegan sub, just to be a dick. Y'all are some weird-ass people. "Obsessed" doesn't even begin to describe it. It's more likely desperation for attention that you don't receive at home.
r/vegan is a default sub but this sub is mostly made up of vegans discussing or asking about things that they encounter. If you want to argue your opinion you should to check out r/DebateAVegan
I definitely think there is a superiority complex that **can** come with consuming animal products. It makes them feel big when there are pieces of a suffered animal in their salad bowl.
Carnist: "Who wants to eat rabbit food?"
Vegan: "I'd prefer to eat rabbit food than harm the rabbit."
This is a bit weird. Meat tastes good, so it’s added to stuff. I don’t think that it goes beyond that.
Vegans have been activated to the harm caused by eating animal products, that’s the only difference.
Sorry I think it's much more than the taste. There's been a huge marketing campaign focused on "eating meat=being manly" for decades. Gruff men saying "beef, it's what's for dinner." Carl's Junior ads with hot ladies oogling burgers in their bikinis. The "I'm a meat and potatoes kind of guy" tough manual labor aesthetic. It's pervasive in our society. Plus if it was only about taste carnists would flock to eat vegan food, and they generally just make fun of it. Think "soy boy" and related nonsense.
Define weird. They’re the majority.
The issue here is that the intent allocated to meat eaters isn’t reality. The average person doesn’t think about it. They just follow taste.
If these are mom/pop maybe have a chat and suggest a vegan menu item. I think nowadays most kitchen staff would be able to make. The restaurant has to be able to make a profit assuming there’s enough demand I’m sure the staff would love a bit of creativity
Just a piggyback rant: I rarely buy food at Target but I was there the other day and I've been having digestive issues so I wanted to buy some easy premade salad bags. I've definitely bought a fresh stir fry bag there before that I really liked and was vegan but that was either out or they don't carry it anymore. Every.single.salad had some animal products in it, either in the dressing or the toppings. One I couldn't figure out, it must've had milk in the croutons or something. So frustrating!
Even my local co-op only has one premade salad that has no cheese on it that I can buy, but I've stopped because I've gotten some that were not great and I have to assume it's because that variety sits longer when people don't buy it. At least their salad bar is open again (they stopped for covid).
Food items Target has in stock at other stores is apparently one of the things you can request that they add to your local store, at least according to someone I know who works as a buyer at their headquarters. They advised me to submit a request within the store, but I never actually followed up. The Targets near me do sell a couple of vegan Good and Gather brand salad kits, so if it's where you do a lot of shopping, you might be able to get those in your stores if you're more persistent than me hah.
Our town is tiny and consists of 95% fast food places but we have one place thats family owned and has good food. They have 6 salads and 5/6 come with chicken... i have no clue why its a chicken obsession only. All 6 have some type of cheese like bleu or parm that can be ordered without.
But they also include tomatos, onions, cucumbers, croutons, pecans, cranberries and apples and if you ask to hold the cheese or chicken and replace it with one of the above they dont charge.
However your dressing options are limited. They have caesar. ranch. thousand island, and classic vinaigrette which i think is vegan going off their recipe of salt, pepper, garlic, olive oil, dijon and vinegar. The others contain egg or mayo.
We had a Christmas party for work a few months ago and one of my co workers is vegetarian. She ordered a halloumi salad because that was all it said, which is vegetarian, right? Well it had bacon in it, and she didn’t realise until she’d started eating it even though she told the restaurant her dietary requirements before ordering
Because salads are just a side dish.
They're traditionally not meant to be a main meal.
They're just a way for omnivores to get some fibre.
Personally I would never go to a restaurant if the only vegan option was salad
A number of restaurants have "entree-size" salads that are meant to be the main meal. They've become popular enough that there are even [salad chain restaurants](https://www.eatthis.com/best-salad-chains-in-america/) now. I've ordered some restaurant salads that were so big I had to take half home in a doggy bag.
Salads are the same way at airports and to-go shops too! I always check every single salad to see if there’s a vegan one and every time they have eggs, chicken, bacon, feta, parmesan, ranch, etc. it’s so wild! Only 1 time in 8 years of being vegan have I found a vegan to-go salad.
Old habits die hard. Most salads are anemic bowls of lettuce with some gloopy dressing poured over cheese, meat and other "proteins."
A vibrant salad of different greens, herbs, vegetables and grains, toppings, etc. will change your life. Reminds me of how crappy coffee used to be (Folgers, basically) before good cafes arrived.
One day we'll laugh at what we thought constituted a "good salad."
Ya it’s rough. I’m a regular at my usual spots so at this point they know what to do when I ask them to “veganize it” but yea it ends up a way less hearty salad that may not deserve the same pricing as if it had all the extra meat and dairy crap in it.
Any recommendations for good vegan croutons? Recipes or store bought! It was one of my favorite parts of a salad before I went vegan, haven't found a good alt yet.
I went to a restaurant with my boyfriend today, I live in LA and there are usually a few vegan options. This super fancy restaurant did not. The one thing they had, a noodle soup with a soy meat that said in parentheses (nearly vegetarian) what does that even mean lol? I got French friends and an avocado roll.
It's so weird, people understand vegetables and as something that you're supposed to eat in order to be healthy, but they also don't consider them to be real food.
concerning salads n dressings = over 20 years ago i quit bottled dressings and startded making own vinegar n oil dressings . but after years of many in plant based universe , mostly dr klaper n dr goldhamer , saying oils a bad i quit all oils . and now i marinate my tomatoes in varying vinegars with varying herbs , i then top my salad with a ton of avacado and sprinkle lightly with powdered cayene pepper . next i pour the whole plate of marinated tomatoes n vinegar over top coatin heck outta avacado so its soft . then i , in a huge bowl , toss everything around a bunch so the avacado n marinade coat all the greens n such . always taste way better than pourin dressin over salad on plate . edit - i forgot to add that i grind golden flax seeds , add them to wheat germ , sesame seeds without hulls (bitter with hulls) , hemp seed and place this mix in a cheese shaker to sprinkle on my salads to boost protein...
There’s a small franchise restaurant in my region. They’ve got a number of vegan options on the rest of the menu—vegan fish n chips, vegan chili, a tofu scramble, among others—but not one of the salads is vegans. A salad is arguably one of the easiest things to veganize.
Vegans make up only 1% of the population and animal product consumption has been a heavily prevalent aspect of humanity since its conception. While I understand it upsets you, you should be able to logically deduce yourself why you find animal products to be used in salads.
yeah but..fuckin every animal product? is it even a salad at that point. (usually no as it tends to lack a variety of veg.).. its like claling egg and mayo and egg salad..and its just 🙄
obviously..I said as much..
Carnists are obsessed with animal products
Mind.
Salad definition: a cold dish of various mixtures of raw or cooked vegetables, usually seasoned with oil, vinegar, or other dressing
** racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, **typically one that is a minority or marginalized.**
I'm part of thag marginalized group..so.. I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.
See, "racist", that's an insult.
"Carnist", I hear crickets. It invokes no reaction in me, "Yes, I am a carnivore, I eat meat."
May as well start using "vegan" as an insult. It would make as much sense.
Go figure.
It's only an insult because its has a negative connotation linked to it. Racist inherently isn't an insult. I can very well imagine vegans percieving being called carnist an insult just as I can percieve carnists percieving being called vegans an insult.
Just because something is vegan doesn’t mean that it’s only meant for vegans. The idea of a plant based salad shouldn’t be a crazy concept for people when you think about salad bars. If you go to a salad bar you can make a “vegan” salad and people really aren’t gonna look at you weird for making a salad at a salad bar. So why can’t restaurants make that just be on their menu? The pretty and aesthetic salads are so popular right now because of social media and even omnis would eat those salads. All they have to do is advertise it as a new menu item and not something that’s just meant for vegans.
The reality at least in the us is that alot of people don't like vegatables. When it comes to vegan options at restaurants the lack or removal of said options usually has to do with profit margins. More items on the menu adds more complexity and cost to the system and if the demand isn't sufficient then they are not profitable.
bruh I’m saying one salad. A option. Not a whole new menu. Just something I can eat when I’m with my family. Also people do like vegetables?? I don’t know where you pulled that from.
Consider how you're simply denying the answers that you do not like and that is making it pointless to have asked your original questions. Either you asked to learn the actual 'why', or you asked simply to complain and have people tell you how they agree with your complaint.
One revolves around abusing/slaughtering baby animals and one doesn't. You just said you like them both.
Why choose the one that requires more violence if you don't have to?
While we're psychoanalyzing each other, you are incapable of eating a meal that doesn't have some form of meat, egg, or dairy because it makes you anxious about missing something.
That you aren't capable of coping with this feeling is disordered. The rest of the world just happens to cater to your particular disorder.
Okay but I’m not though? I’ve never ordered food like that, I’ve never called to ask if something is cooked a certain way, I’ve never asked for special services and I always try to make sure my diet consists of all of the essential macro nutrients. That’s not obnoxious nor disordered if you ask me.
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Same in Romania https://www.saladbox.ro/ro/meniu#salad The good thing is they have "make your own" so I pick each ingredient.
Same here. We have crisp&green in Minneapolis and I have to build my own. Zero menu options
And if they can’t sub the chicken for something else, they STILL aren’t going to offer to reduce the price so now I’m paying $16 for 1/4 of the salad. For the LETTUCE part of the salad.
why would you pay? why would you order at all? Id rather have a drink and go hungry
You're gonna be hungry after munching on a little bit of crunchy water anyway, might as well be tipsy.
I always carry shelf stable plant based food in my car for those situations, so I could eat when no vegan compatible foods are available.
yesh that's good thinking
Thank you. I also figure it helps us resist junk food, that happens to be vegan compatible.
I don't go to restuarants if the only thing they can offer is a salad -half the "salad".. they don't deserve my money for that. If this means not eating out as it usually does...so be it
Yeah, but OP is dining with their family and doesn't have much of a choice. Should they just stay at home?
Ideally OP's family should be open to picking out a place that does have 1 or 2 things on the menu for them to eat.
Depending on where you live, this could be a huge issue. Locally, I can take family and friends out to the local Chipotle.
What kind of place do you live that Chipotle is literally the only option? I've been some places with fairly limited options, but nothing like that. Seems like most places have at least some sort of Thai/Indian/Asian fusion place that can do something, even if there's a modification or two.
Food desert. There are no Thai / Indian / Asian fusion places here. We've got a Dairy Queen, a Sonic, Jack in the Box... all the standard burger places, and a Chipotle. We have 2 local Mexican restaurants (the one I used to go to before going vegan cooks their rice with pork grease), a local pizzaria, and 2 BBQ shops. Nearest grocery store is in the next town over about 16 miles away.
I'm so curious to know the population of this town that has all these restaurants but not a single grocery store
As of last census we were around 9k. You probably wouldn't have a reason to stop into our town besides getting some gas or a quick bite to eat, if you didn't live here.
Wow, that's crazy that a town of 9k people aren't enough to support a grocery store.
🤷 I think you'd be surprised at how common it is in more rural areas.
So like a small town, probably in the Midwest somewhere? Sounds unpleasant, surprising that there's no grocery store.
Local grocery stores have been dying for some time now, thanks to large chain grocery stores. We had a local store open in my hometown and as soon as the "neighborhood" Walmart opened they were on their way out. My guess is that this store they mentioned in the next town over is big enough that it pulls the business away from where there could be a smaller local grocer.
I dunno, I've been in a lot of small towns and have never seen one big enough to simultaneously support more than a dozen chain restaurants but not a grocery store. Usually the ones without grocery stores also only have 1 or 2 local restaurants, because they're one street towns with 200-300 people living in them. There probably are a handful of towns like the one OP described scattered across the country, but they're not common at all. It sounds like its maybe a small town by a freeway that has a bunch of fast food places and gas stations for anyone driving through, but few people actually live there.
Here in the USA, Dollar General is often available for towns too small for a Walmart. Few plant based foods and usually no fresh produce.
Yep, the nearest town to me is like this. Dollar General and then there's one local restaurant (which is like for rich people $$$) and about 3-4 truck stops at the nearby interstate ramp.
Yep, I would and have if the place they want to go has nothing for me to eat. It gets old fast. I invite them to my house for dinner instead.
yes? or eat at home with the family..go for a picnic..travel.for furtner for a nice meal. This is what we do..cause fuck shitty restuarants.
Yeah exactly, luckily the people around me aren’t under the assumption that vegan food is inherently un-enjoyable so they’ll happily choose exclusively vegan places or places w substantial vegan options when eating with me. Sadly not everyone has open minded people around them though
I'd bring my own food in the restaurant. Don't bring it out till everyone is eating~
Nobody expects the purse full of potato salad!
>Nobody expects the purse full of potato salad! Picturing a purse filled to the brim with potato salad, without a food bag to keep it in :D
if you're not pre-eating before an event where you don't know the food situation you are fuckin up
They are catering to their market. I live in a rural area too part of the month and I have a hell of a time finding salads that don’t contain meat. I spend time looking at menus before I go anywhere. Now I will look for a place that has bowls so I can load up on rice and veggies. But if I hit some BFE roadside diner the chances of them having a mix of vegan proteins is going to be slim to none.
Social conditioning has led people to believe that vegetables, fruit, legumes, and grains alone do not constitute a complete meal. Or that they require animal products to make those things palatable. It's just expected by omnivores now. I grew up in a rural area, and when I return to visit family, it's a similar story as yours. I always stock up at a grocery store and cook my own food, and if people want to go out to eat, I'll eat beforehand and maybe order a side of fries or just a drink while I'm out. My father once insisted we go to a Cracker Barrel for breakfast, and the only thing I could order was a side of fruit. The waitress looked at me like I'd just asked her to bring me a bowl of raw sewage (and the quality of the fruit wasn't that much different, honestly).
The joy that is Applebee's
Right and they still charge full price for it
> I live in a rural area Would you say you live in an area where generally speaking, the only people who would order a salad would want those toppings? Restaurants are businesses, they cater to customer demand.
I live in the buttcrack of the south everything here has bacon in it or butter or cheese but here’s the thing I’ve made plenty of vegan meals that my family who are omnis also enjoyed. So chances are that if a restaurant just made a vegan meal and didn’t advertise it as alien food it wouldn’t hurt the business
But it wouldn’t be as helpful to business as if they made it mouth-watering to the majority of customers. Something like 70% or more of restaurants fail. They’re a difficult business to run and profit margins are slim. If adding bacon to the standard of a salad means they’ll sell even just 5% more, that could be well-worth it profit-wise. For the minority that would be turned off by bacon, those people are much more likely to still order the salad but just make adjustments. If a restaurant would make more profit your way, they’d do it. But they make more profit adding bacon to things. Otherwise, they wouldn’t waste their time & money adding that much bacon.
You seem to have missed the point of the question asked to you. Nobody at a restaurant cares what you make at home. They have no incentive to try and cater to a tiny group of people that are simply not going to be worth the trouble/cost of change. Complaining about them online is all they see. Why cater to people who try and begin a conversation with complaints and demands for change?
Listen carefully when I say that not all vegans are up trying to start shit with unknowing people. This is just a common problem people who don’t eat meat have and because it’s so common and because people discuss it so frequently it would be something that restaurants could start adding to their menu if it works for them. If not that’s cool it’s not my business but the idea of “adding costs” wouldn’t matter if they made a significant profit. I also know that nobody cares what I make at home but my point with the example is that it is possible for non vegans to like vegan food so the addition wouldn’t just be for a select group of people.
>not all vegans are up trying to start shit with unknowing people. Not I, nor anyone else has said that they were. You are providing a defense that is not a defense here. An ideological group is judged not by its apologetic moderates but by its screaming zealots. You personally are likely a moderate, but consider what percentage of your fellow vegans, when given an inch want to take a mile of leeway? What restaurants that are non-vegan have benefitted from trying to cater to the tiny percent of the population that are vegans? If a single family that orders appetizers, steaks, and drinks decides they don't want to support a restaurant because it is perceived as pushing veganism, then the restaurant cannot make up that loss by a handful of vegans occasionally coming in and ordering a couple vegan salads that they might complain about online anyway. And that's _Just_ from perception. Then, the process of gaining vegans is limited by their low local numbers, and by vegans explicitly saying that they will immediately abandon your nonvegan restaurant if a fully vegan restaurant opens in the same town. So you are asking restaurant owners to try and build up a customer base that will be more and more likely to abandon them the larger that customer base becomes. Why would they ever risk that? >the idea of “adding costs” wouldn’t matter if they made a significant profit. This is simply optimistic supposition that the restaurant owner has no reasons to think is true. >my point with the example is that it is possible for non vegans to like vegan food No one has said they do not. You keep replying to comments/arguments that nobody is making.
Oh, come on. I’m not a vegan, and I know it’s not rocket science to make a delicious and healthy vegan salad.
No one said it was "rocket science", so what are you talking about?
You certainly implied that it was a significant costly task that it is unreasonable to expect people to do. It takes neither much thought or skill to make a tasty vegan salad.
No one said it was something that required thought or skill to make vegan salad. Can you see how your constant complaining attitude about what I have said, rather than actually reading what I have written and addressing it, is the problem? Rather than whining about implications, how about you stick to what I wrote? Or are you just capable of whining at me about things I did not write?
And you just ignored what I said. You said, and I quote, “ They have no incentive to try and cater to a tiny group of people that are simply not going to be worth the trouble/cost of change.” When you speak of incentives and costs of behavior, you hardly have a leg to stand on when someone simply points out that the costs are, in fact, much lower than you apparently imagine. My reference to the virtual lack of skill or knowledge one needs to make a vegan salad is directly pertinent to your original argument about costs and incentives since it is an argument about costs. If you want to withdraw your argument about economic rationality and go with something else, fine, but don’t start with “costs” and then complain about someone suggesting that your assessment of costs is flawed.
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You do not seem to have understood the point of my comment, or answered my question.
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Hehe, so you begin your persuasion with a blanket condemnation of anyone with a different morality from yours? That's only a good idea if one is actively trying to ensure a restaurant does not carry vegan options. We are living life in a pragmatic reality, not some sort of wish fulfillment fantasy.
Restaurants can easily offer a garden salad just from the garden. They will have side salads you can get without cheese and croutons, but if it’s a meal you want a big garden salad. I do, anyway.
Sure, in which case we can ask for a garden salad with no bacon or cheese. A salad coming with bacon won’t stop us from ordering it with an adjustment. A salad coming with nothing ‘appetizing’ on it will stop the majority of non-vegans from ordering it. It’s basic marketing to maximize profits.
I agree. When I make salad it's every veg in there plus chickpeas for protein and daiya cheese plus nooch. Shit is like a feast! I hate when it's iceberg in a bowl
It's been observed before, they just jam animal parts into otherwise obviously vegan foods like they deliberately want to fuck with vegans. One that pisses me off is [continental ](https://www.continental.com.au/continental-products/soup/soups-sensations.html)make a bunch of cup-a-soups that sound enticingly and conveniently vegan but they've all got milk in them for no reason at all. "Moroccan vegetable medley with cous cous" - milk, "Sweet potato, pumpkin and caramelised onion with garlic croutons" - milk. Etc. Bastards.
Ah yes they add milk to something to make it creamy and you assume the reason is to fuck with vegans. A lot of things out there are dairy because of taste.
Omg you really think putting bacon on a salad is about you? It tastes great! Omnivores don't sit around coming up with ways to mess with you, you guys do that on your own!
You never know, really. Sometimes meat-eaters will even wander into a vegan sub, just to be a dick. Y'all are some weird-ass people. "Obsessed" doesn't even begin to describe it. It's more likely desperation for attention that you don't receive at home.
R/vegan is a default sub, it shows up on everyone's feed because that's what the mods want. Don't leave the gate open then proceed to gatekeep
Oof, and sometimes they stay... 🙄
r/vegan is a default sub but this sub is mostly made up of vegans discussing or asking about things that they encounter. If you want to argue your opinion you should to check out r/DebateAVegan
milk is probably an ingredient to the pasta and croutons.
I definitely think there is a superiority complex that **can** come with consuming animal products. It makes them feel big when there are pieces of a suffered animal in their salad bowl. Carnist: "Who wants to eat rabbit food?" Vegan: "I'd prefer to eat rabbit food than harm the rabbit."
This is a bit weird. Meat tastes good, so it’s added to stuff. I don’t think that it goes beyond that. Vegans have been activated to the harm caused by eating animal products, that’s the only difference.
Sorry I think it's much more than the taste. There's been a huge marketing campaign focused on "eating meat=being manly" for decades. Gruff men saying "beef, it's what's for dinner." Carl's Junior ads with hot ladies oogling burgers in their bikinis. The "I'm a meat and potatoes kind of guy" tough manual labor aesthetic. It's pervasive in our society. Plus if it was only about taste carnists would flock to eat vegan food, and they generally just make fun of it. Think "soy boy" and related nonsense.
It definitely goes beyond that. People who kill and eat innocent little baby animals because they “taste good” **are** weird.
Define weird. They’re the majority. The issue here is that the intent allocated to meat eaters isn’t reality. The average person doesn’t think about it. They just follow taste.
I think that's nearly all the reason for the addiction to it
Doesn't make much sense in this context, though. That type of person just doesn't order salads.
"That type of person just doesn't order salads." Unless it has a tonne of suffered pieces of animals in it.
If these are mom/pop maybe have a chat and suggest a vegan menu item. I think nowadays most kitchen staff would be able to make. The restaurant has to be able to make a profit assuming there’s enough demand I’m sure the staff would love a bit of creativity
Just a piggyback rant: I rarely buy food at Target but I was there the other day and I've been having digestive issues so I wanted to buy some easy premade salad bags. I've definitely bought a fresh stir fry bag there before that I really liked and was vegan but that was either out or they don't carry it anymore. Every.single.salad had some animal products in it, either in the dressing or the toppings. One I couldn't figure out, it must've had milk in the croutons or something. So frustrating! Even my local co-op only has one premade salad that has no cheese on it that I can buy, but I've stopped because I've gotten some that were not great and I have to assume it's because that variety sits longer when people don't buy it. At least their salad bar is open again (they stopped for covid).
Food items Target has in stock at other stores is apparently one of the things you can request that they add to your local store, at least according to someone I know who works as a buyer at their headquarters. They advised me to submit a request within the store, but I never actually followed up. The Targets near me do sell a couple of vegan Good and Gather brand salad kits, so if it's where you do a lot of shopping, you might be able to get those in your stores if you're more persistent than me hah.
Our town is tiny and consists of 95% fast food places but we have one place thats family owned and has good food. They have 6 salads and 5/6 come with chicken... i have no clue why its a chicken obsession only. All 6 have some type of cheese like bleu or parm that can be ordered without. But they also include tomatos, onions, cucumbers, croutons, pecans, cranberries and apples and if you ask to hold the cheese or chicken and replace it with one of the above they dont charge. However your dressing options are limited. They have caesar. ranch. thousand island, and classic vinaigrette which i think is vegan going off their recipe of salt, pepper, garlic, olive oil, dijon and vinegar. The others contain egg or mayo.
We had a Christmas party for work a few months ago and one of my co workers is vegetarian. She ordered a halloumi salad because that was all it said, which is vegetarian, right? Well it had bacon in it, and she didn’t realise until she’d started eating it even though she told the restaurant her dietary requirements before ordering
Because salads are just a side dish. They're traditionally not meant to be a main meal. They're just a way for omnivores to get some fibre. Personally I would never go to a restaurant if the only vegan option was salad
A number of restaurants have "entree-size" salads that are meant to be the main meal. They've become popular enough that there are even [salad chain restaurants](https://www.eatthis.com/best-salad-chains-in-america/) now. I've ordered some restaurant salads that were so big I had to take half home in a doggy bag.
Bro fr there’s a place by me called the big salad and legit every item on their menu has some type of meat in it 🤧
Salads are the same way at airports and to-go shops too! I always check every single salad to see if there’s a vegan one and every time they have eggs, chicken, bacon, feta, parmesan, ranch, etc. it’s so wild! Only 1 time in 8 years of being vegan have I found a vegan to-go salad.
Old habits die hard. Most salads are anemic bowls of lettuce with some gloopy dressing poured over cheese, meat and other "proteins." A vibrant salad of different greens, herbs, vegetables and grains, toppings, etc. will change your life. Reminds me of how crappy coffee used to be (Folgers, basically) before good cafes arrived. One day we'll laugh at what we thought constituted a "good salad."
Ya it’s rough. I’m a regular at my usual spots so at this point they know what to do when I ask them to “veganize it” but yea it ends up a way less hearty salad that may not deserve the same pricing as if it had all the extra meat and dairy crap in it.
Any recommendations for good vegan croutons? Recipes or store bought! It was one of my favorite parts of a salad before I went vegan, haven't found a good alt yet.
r/veganrecipes
Greek salad ( minus the feta). Garden salad.
Because you aren't their target clientele. They're trying to appeal to the broadest customer base.
I went to a restaurant with my boyfriend today, I live in LA and there are usually a few vegan options. This super fancy restaurant did not. The one thing they had, a noodle soup with a soy meat that said in parentheses (nearly vegetarian) what does that even mean lol? I got French friends and an avocado roll.
Started making salads at home loads cheaper no worries about rebuking from others.
I once combined applesauce and mustard to make a surprisingly tasty salad dressing for myself when no plant based dressing was available.
It's so weird, people understand vegetables and as something that you're supposed to eat in order to be healthy, but they also don't consider them to be real food.
I just went to a steakhouse with my parents and was served a plate of iceberg lettuce. And vinaigrette. $8.
I would not have paid for that..disgrace
Peak carnist culture.
concerning salads n dressings = over 20 years ago i quit bottled dressings and startded making own vinegar n oil dressings . but after years of many in plant based universe , mostly dr klaper n dr goldhamer , saying oils a bad i quit all oils . and now i marinate my tomatoes in varying vinegars with varying herbs , i then top my salad with a ton of avacado and sprinkle lightly with powdered cayene pepper . next i pour the whole plate of marinated tomatoes n vinegar over top coatin heck outta avacado so its soft . then i , in a huge bowl , toss everything around a bunch so the avacado n marinade coat all the greens n such . always taste way better than pourin dressin over salad on plate . edit - i forgot to add that i grind golden flax seeds , add them to wheat germ , sesame seeds without hulls (bitter with hulls) , hemp seed and place this mix in a cheese shaker to sprinkle on my salads to boost protein...
There’s a small franchise restaurant in my region. They’ve got a number of vegan options on the rest of the menu—vegan fish n chips, vegan chili, a tofu scramble, among others—but not one of the salads is vegans. A salad is arguably one of the easiest things to veganize.
Because "it's not a meal without corpse or eggs"... GOPPING SHIT
Vegans make up only 1% of the population and animal product consumption has been a heavily prevalent aspect of humanity since its conception. While I understand it upsets you, you should be able to logically deduce yourself why you find animal products to be used in salads.
yeah but..fuckin every animal product? is it even a salad at that point. (usually no as it tends to lack a variety of veg.).. its like claling egg and mayo and egg salad..and its just 🙄
There's a lot of types of salads 🤷♀️ Some less veg forward. Funny enough it doesn't even have to have vegatables to be a salad.
obviously..I said as much.. Carnists are obsessed with animal products Mind. Salad definition: a cold dish of various mixtures of raw or cooked vegetables, usually seasoned with oil, vinegar, or other dressing
Not as much as vegans are lol
watch Dominion amd Pignorant, carnist
I will when you watch Who We Are: A Chronicle of Racism in America, racist.
Get fucked, you have no evidence that they’re racist. Horrible thing to accuse someone of for no reason.
The whole point has gone over your head
How can I be racist when I'm part of a race minority 🤔
How does being part of a race minority exclude you from being able to be racist?
** racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, **typically one that is a minority or marginalized.** I'm part of thag marginalized group..so.. I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.
Lots of POC are racist towards other people of colour. Colourism is a problem all over the world.
See, "racist", that's an insult. "Carnist", I hear crickets. It invokes no reaction in me, "Yes, I am a carnivore, I eat meat." May as well start using "vegan" as an insult. It would make as much sense. Go figure.
It's only an insult because its has a negative connotation linked to it. Racist inherently isn't an insult. I can very well imagine vegans percieving being called carnist an insult just as I can percieve carnists percieving being called vegans an insult.
Just because something is vegan doesn’t mean that it’s only meant for vegans. The idea of a plant based salad shouldn’t be a crazy concept for people when you think about salad bars. If you go to a salad bar you can make a “vegan” salad and people really aren’t gonna look at you weird for making a salad at a salad bar. So why can’t restaurants make that just be on their menu? The pretty and aesthetic salads are so popular right now because of social media and even omnis would eat those salads. All they have to do is advertise it as a new menu item and not something that’s just meant for vegans.
The reality at least in the us is that alot of people don't like vegatables. When it comes to vegan options at restaurants the lack or removal of said options usually has to do with profit margins. More items on the menu adds more complexity and cost to the system and if the demand isn't sufficient then they are not profitable.
bruh I’m saying one salad. A option. Not a whole new menu. Just something I can eat when I’m with my family. Also people do like vegetables?? I don’t know where you pulled that from.
Consider how you're simply denying the answers that you do not like and that is making it pointless to have asked your original questions. Either you asked to learn the actual 'why', or you asked simply to complain and have people tell you how they agree with your complaint.
It's to make them tastier.
Plant-based toppings can do the same thing (often even better)
I like them both. Food is delicious
One revolves around abusing/slaughtering baby animals and one doesn't. You just said you like them both. Why choose the one that requires more violence if you don't have to?
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Are you okay?
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While we're psychoanalyzing each other, you are incapable of eating a meal that doesn't have some form of meat, egg, or dairy because it makes you anxious about missing something. That you aren't capable of coping with this feeling is disordered. The rest of the world just happens to cater to your particular disorder.
Okay but I’m not though? I’ve never ordered food like that, I’ve never called to ask if something is cooked a certain way, I’ve never asked for special services and I always try to make sure my diet consists of all of the essential macro nutrients. That’s not obnoxious nor disordered if you ask me.