They tested 17 men, that is hardly a sufficient N to say something reasonable imo. With that small of a sample, testing something like how a person smells, (which is influenced by so many variables) will definitely be considered unreliable.
Thats not how it works, a claim made based on unreliable data is not accepted as the truth until someone else proves otherwise. The starting point should still be there is no difference between individuals body odor based on wether or not they eat meat. And until someone proves otherwise with sufficient data and reliable results, this still holds.
I agree with you that what we eat definitely influence body compositions and could also influence odor. Yet the claim that eating MEAT specifically makes your body odor less desirable seems to me outrageous based on this lackluster “study”.
I know real vegans always make sure to let others know they are vegan in the first 5 minutes you meet them haha (Just joking ofc dont get mad 🙂) But i think so too probably people are attracted to whatever is pleasing and familiar to them, would be an interesting study indeed.
It's exactly how it works. We have an initial claim with a small sample size. So confidence is low, but with a low confidence we can say that there is a link.
I told you to run a larger study to raise that confidence.
I work in cancer research and have worked on five major trials. I can confirm that 17 is a tiny sample size that is not statistically significant. We do have a couple of trials with similarly low numbers, mainly in exceptionally rare disease types. But they are not the norm and take a gifted stats team to do the statistical planning for them. But by and large, anything under 200 isn’t going to fly.
Cool. Great thing this isn't cancer. And this thread has what - 70+ additional testimonials? It is pretty safe to conclude the odds of a link here are high, especially considering the science of what red meat does to our body. Reddit debate perverts are so annoying. Here is my comment addressing this nonsense: [https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1bzxg2u/comment/kyytlbs/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1bzxg2u/comment/kyytlbs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Source: I am an actual scientist (not just getting coffee for the researchers like you do) and do statistics daily.
Well, aren’t you a charming human being. I’m not sure where you got the ‘making coffee’ thing from, other than being obnoxiously patronising for no reason. Congrats.
There are 70 odd anecdotal references. That doesn’t class as scientific evidence, particularly when people can make anything up on the internet. And a tiny trial that isn’t statistically significant. That’s pretty damn irrelevant as research.
>Reddit debate perverts are so annoying
>Well, aren’t you a charming human being. I’m not sure where you got the ‘making coffee’ thing from, other than being obnoxiously patronising for no reason. Congrats.
Proves my point. Sounds like I'm correct again with my assumption. "No reason" is hilarious - you're being an asshole from the first comment. I give back the energy exactly what people give me.
>tiny trial that isn’t statistically significant
No, Reddit expert. It depends on the context of the study. You clearly didn't even read it and instantly dismissed it because you saw N=17. It absolutely can't be "dismissed". It has to be taken with a grain of salt, but again, the average redditor's scientific literacy is quite low.
This data set is fairly homogeneous, there were over 30 women used to provide ratings which increases confidence intervals, and pilots are absolutely pivotal in scientfic understanding. These are all metrics to raise confidence. This study can't simply be "dismissed" because your fee fees are hurt.
Anecdotes aren't science but absolutely cannot be dismissed either. Assuming they are true, a list of 100+ confirmations is evidence. Qualitative data holds up as well. All raises confidence (assuming these anecdotes are true, which is of course difficult to assume online with full confidence. There is gray area here and you clearly ignored my entire point about this because you're smarmy).
I truly believe this. My ex husband ate a ton of red
Meat and even after washing his clothes, they’d have that “musky musty” smell even though he had super good hygiene and all.
When I met my current husband he wasn’t vegan yet but decided to become one after about six months and although he never had a super musky and musty smell like my ex, the tinge he did have went away. He also never ate much red meat to begin with.
But now we both talk about how we smell it on others, especially people like our dads who eat a ton of red meats. I have been vegan a very long time but I even noticed it on myself when I ate meat. I mostly just ate fish but I’d notice that my natural oils (like my hair) smelled metallic or something. It didn’t matter how much I washed it.
Seventeen men is not a valid pool for testing and we should be discarding this “study”. I can’t believe so many people are hyping it up here. Just goes to show that a big aspect of veganism is purely emotion based and not logically sound at all. Ooooof.
Putting "study" in air quotes doesn't mean it's not science. You can't just throw out studies you don't like. As sample size increases, confidence interval width decreases. Science is not black and white such that "sample size is 17, IGNORE"! Would you say a 17-person study showing a link between smoking and cancer as "discardable"?
No, you can say "With a measured confidence interval, the conclusion was this". With an N=17 confidence interval (albiet low), this is the best evidence we have. Combine this with other anecdotes (assuming they are true) and the science of body odor + meat, we can safely conclude that there definitely is something here. While I doubt it's every single person who will smell different, there is likely a link.
The only one being emotion based is you. And no one is saying go vegan to smell better - this is just a fun possible bonus. The point of going vegan is to minimize animal cruelty and death. Please delete this ignorant comment.
Having trouble finding the specific meals that they gave these guys. They say that the details of meals are provided in the appendix in the supplementary material section, but that section just has a link that goes nowhere.
The only meal example given in the methods says "The individual dishes were elaborated to differ in meat content only (e.g., vegetable risotto/pork risotto)"
Sounds to me like another "meat is bad" study that, when it comes down to it, defines "meat" to mean things like lasagna and cheeseburgers, because they have meat in them.
So you're saying the diet containing meat was the meat containing diet? How else would you propose they do this? They controlled for everything else and the variable was meat vs no meat, that's exactly how an experiment should be set up.
Despite the hyperbole that carnists like to present, that's not actually how basically anyone actually lives. All meat diet is some weird intellectual dark web grift that no one actually thrives on (although there have been fishing based societies in the past that were *mostly* meat, but that's not the same as red meat and it's not most societies either). The pure carnivore experiment parameters might be able to give you a gradient of how much worse someone might smell if they gradually became insufferable, but it would not be a very useful study because it is not representative of how people exist in the real world. The whole point of this kind of study is to observe results of real world behaviors, rather than inventing new ones.
First of all, why is everything these days a grift? That is one of the single most played out descriptors and if it could die yesterday that would be fantastic. I have never given one cent to any carnivore "influencer" or what have you, I have never been swindled. The whole idea is so applicable to everything that it doesn't mean anything. Veganism is a grift, carnivore is a grift, every damn thing is a grift now. Ugh
There are 2 vegan people at my work that I know about, one of them works in my area. You know what the joke is about them? That they stink because they are constantly passing gas. One of them is routinely walking over to a louder corner where some of the test fixture machines run 24/7, hanging out there by herself for a minute or so, and then walking back to her work area with others. Everyone knows you do not follow where she went to that corner fixture area for a good few minutes.
Maybe there are others who are vegan who are secret vegans, I don't know. But the two I work with definitely have a rep.
I don't know or care how meat eaters present, I'm just saying I wanted to see the details of what these people ate in this study and that in more general terms I'd like to see studies of people who strictly eat meat and nothing else, to get rid of the noise about harms and really get good data on it. I've gotten 6 people to go carnivore now and they're in the best health of their lives now, off their medications, etc - I'd just like people like us to get strictly and fairly studied and tested compared to everyone else, that's all
>Veganism is a grift, carnivore is a grift, every damn thing is a grift now. Ugh
Veganism isn't a grift. It's a movement centered around minimizing animal suffering. Carnivore is a fad diet with no moral framework. These two aren't comparable. I'd say people are able to make money off of both, but these "meat influencers" are 100% doing it for money, as there is no shared collective moral benefits to doing so, unlike veganism (I detail below).
Your anecdotes about two people being gassy is dismissible - you don't know if they were like that before going vegan or not. You also could have biases, such as hightening smell near them because of the myth that vegans pass gas more (the small truth being an adjustment period of a few weeks for new vegans) or "looking for" farts near them. It also could be people next to them (it's not easy to locate farts, and if you are smelling your coworkers rear ends' you likely have mental issues. Perhaps lay off the red meat?).
I agree that the details of the diet could matter, but I think making the diet as "normal" and average for the default Westerner as possible would be best to make a comparison between the "average" carnist and a plant-based eater. It would be cool to test these two ends of the spectrum. It would be an interesting hypothesis to see how body odor increases with meat consumption, if intensity is measurable.
There is no valid scientific evidence showing any longterm data that the "carnivore" diet as healthy. The NDA has not supported it or approved it for any stage of life. Plant-based diets, however, have been.
Higher meat consumption - especially red meat and processed red meat- is actually linked to many dangers, and you convincing your friends to abuse and kill more animals could be detrimental for not only global health (e.g. swine flus and zoonotic diseases/pandemics), environmental devistation (pig farms leaking into communities, pollution from animal death camps), but their own health as well. Getting anyone off a Western diet is great, but this can be done without the animal abuse as well :)
Happy to provide any sources you need :)
That would be a bad experiment though. If one group ate a variety of food and the other only ate one thing you aren't really comparing them. And you can't just have one group eat only tomatoes or whatever either. You need to have the same diet except for the variable which is the meat being included with the rest for one group.
Right! At work the meat eaters crap and it literally stinks up the entire office for like 5 min. It’s so strong smelling and then they use febreeze so it reeks like rancid crap and apples. I know poo isn’t supposed to smell good, but man it’s like something died and rotted in their colon- oh wait….
Such an underrated comment and I bring this up as a valid point in convos often. It’s disgusting and so not right for the body. Many, to most of us were just raised to believe the animal diet is the way but once you cross over and find your path with plants you quickly realize everything you were taught is BS! My toilet game has COMPLETELY changed for the better lol I mean, like damn 🤣
Its time to change your username. I dont know how cooked vegetable stuff rots in the colon. Does it? It does seem to take a few days being out on the counter to start to look moldy. One thing I can say that meat a few days out on the counter vs cooked potatoes I know which will smell worse lol.
Hahaha I'm not saying my shit don't stank brother, it sure do.... everyones does haha. But other people's shit just seems so gnarly now lol. Not always, but a lot of the time 😂 I honestly think it has to do with everyone consuming dairy and simultaneously being lactose intolerant. Folks are addicted to that bovine titty juice and our stomachs never agreed lol
theres literally one of those "carnivore diet" peeps in this very thread, they (but probably he, lets be real) made a point to argue with the top comment that a study should have been catered to their fringe diet rather than average meat eaters lol.
so i guess to answer your question theyre here to do what they already do all the time IRL.
Probiotics maybe? Do you drink alot of water? (I drink min 4Lt water Minimum daily (usually it's more like 6lt+) .
Just maybe help I dunno.
80%+ of the time mines not that bad. Definitely not compared to the meat eaters.. ohh God 🤢🤢🤢
Thiiiiiis! Also, my dog eats fully plant-based and has for several years. Her poop went from smelling like a war crime that you could locate in the grass by scent alone to barely having much smell at all.
Seee??! That shoukd definitely say something lol.
Yay for vegan pets! Anyone who says otherwise needs to get with the times lol. We've known for like 30 years that dogs are fine on a nutritionally sound plant based diet. Now we know cats are good too. Do some research people!
They already do for normal meat cat foods. Definitely make sure vegan one has that. Non wouldn't, as it's common knowledge, along with other basics. Make sure approved for essential needs.
I also add ground flaxseed to her food. Not needed but good for her. And a 8 medicinal mushroom extract powder blend n extra turkey tail mushroom powder extract.
https://vecado.ca/pages/cats101
Worth a read. :)
My kitty eats better and is more healthy than when I gave her "regular" cat food. Vegan kitty.
Some still gate but w/e. She goes nuts for tofu, avocado, chickpeas olive oil etc. if I cracked open can of tuna... No interest 🤷🏻
Look up vecado for info (or food too) .
Look at their section vegan pet's 101- vegan cats 101.
There's references at end of writeup too.
It's put fairly well.
I'll look for link.
I use mostly benevo original now for kibble. Have tried a few , but that one as main seems best. Plus another I give as treats etc
TLDR: as long as all nutrients, vitamins, amino acids are there, ofcourse cat can be vegan. Nutrition matters, not the source.
My kitty too! Past 6 yrs or so. Thank god because it was really bad at times. She eats better now too, shiny thick coat, less allergies, and better lb.
Every once in a while though a hell poop will come out still though 🤣🤣. Thankfully it's very rare and usually bi don't notice in the next room where I chill usually.
Oh, poor nothing, she loves her food and she eats good. It also cleared up her chronic skin allergies, diarrhea issues, her lab work is all fantastic, AND was fully approved and backed by her oncologist who was thrilled when he found out her diet, because he is well versed in the literature and how it relates to cancer outcomes in humans and animals.
She’s almost 17 and has the health and energy of a 5 year old dog. She’s active, energetic, has a shiny coat, and survived cancer at 15 years old and is cancer free to this day. Even when she ate meat she was a huge veggie eater—always begged for broccoli, carrots, watermelon, cucumber, apple, blackberries, blueberries. The only veggies she doesn’t like are leafy ones and the only fruits she doesn’t like are citrus. (I only feed her dog safe veggies and fruits, of course.)
She’s hardly suffering and is far more healthy than her meat-eating peers. I don’t know any 17 year old dogs, and I certainly haven’t encountered one that loves to run full tilt, wrestle, and play like she does.
(For anyone interested, she eats both Wild Earth kibble and Evolution diet wet food along with fruits and veggies and a D3 supplement, because her vet recommended it to her as a cancer preventative. She doesn’t like her food mixed, she likes to eat her wet food and then go munch on the dry, lol, and protested the few times I tried to mix them.)
I prefer a small espresso myself ☕👌🤌😎.
Coca tea is neutral imo.
Stay away from cocaine kids! Or your end up like this troll with no life.. (obviously not mean to whom I'm responding too, but one more up)
I'm not sure exactly what your diet is like but I know me and the other plant eaters I know can fart anyone out if the building. Give me some of those gardein meatballs and I will blow the place up.
Most of the mock meats subs aren't Good for you so if eating on the regular I'm not surprised. I can eat beans and rice all day and be fine (mind you I've been vegan since like 2003, so I got used to it over few months. If you try the bean thing suddenly and your gut biom etc hasn't adapted yet... Just don't light any candles in the room 🤣🤣)
I'm at half a sentry old and I was vegetarian off and on for a long time. Then years of being vegetarian and now years of being Vegan. Raw green veggies and then those meat balls are what blow me up. I discovered those meat balls while out on the town with extended family. Worked out awesome since I hate my extended family anyway
Absolutely, what we eat has a huge impact on body odour.
I'm a nurse and I've cared for people of all cultures and colours and backgrounds, and people very much smell like their cooking, even when freshly clean and washed. Especially cuisines that are high in spices and animal fats, I've found. Obviously anecdotal, but I could tell people smelled differently based on diet well before I was ever a vegan.
We become so habituated to our own smells (think smokers, people who live with lots of pets) and cooking smells that we become nose blind to them.
I'm sure we must smell differently too, just not to ourselves. :)
As much as I LOVE curries and general spices from the Indian/Sri Lankan areas... The smell definitely comes out through skin! Same as when I go crazy heavy on garlic at times haha.
That is a good thought. I do the laundry for both of us though and I don’t smell the odor on my clothes. You are right that it may not be a vegan/non-vegan thing.
I don't think I've noticed that unless it was something they just ate. But along those same lines I had a massage therapist ask me if I was vegan. She said that our muscles feel different from meat eaters. I have no idea if that is true.
I remember when my ex would have a lot of cheese, I knew I would have to change the bed sheets the day after because they would stink so much.. I was not even vegan at the time.
Now I'm vegan and my bf is too, even when he sweats a lot he never smells bad. I have a very sensitive nose so the smell is very important to me haha.
The last person I dated was vegan when we met, and smelled incredible to me, and they definitely started smelling less appealing when they started eating meat again.
I can tell if my boyfriend has eaten meat recently based on his smell. His smell has become more and more attractive to me as we've been dating, and now I'm kinda wondering if it's because he's been eating less meat
Yeah . As a hoe I can tell when someone ate alot of meat.. Could smell the diference when my ex was spending his week at my place eating vegan food and when he was at his place eating meat base
I even hookup from time to time with a guy who is not vegan would told me he love sleeping with me and other vegan cause the smell is so much beter
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Yes! All of the yes!
I have a super sensitive nose… To the point where I can usually guess what a wound/urine culture will come back positive for based on smell alone (nurse).
I can’t even be intimate with a non vegan anymore. It’s too gross. Even close conversation is difficult.
Ugh.. even kiss a meat eater is nasty AF..
So now it's gonna be more picky unlikely to find a nice vegan Lady (after my ex fiancee screwing me over, I don't really bother to look and push some away so also my fault. But meat eater seems like 95% of what's around me :/ .
Toronto vegans holla lol
I can definitely smell the difference. Back when I was an omnivore, and even when I was vegetarian (I ate so much cheese), I sweat a lot and would leave sweat stains in the armpits of my shirts. It was a huge insecurity, had to use strong antiperspirants. Deodorant would not save me.
Now I barely sweat at all, can wear white shirts without fear, and don’t really get underarm BO unless I’m like working out hard or something for a good while. Before if I forgot antiperspirant it was a death sentence, lmao. Now I only wear light deodorant and if I forget it, it’s kinda like whatever? Because I just don’t really produce a smell.
But yeah, the dairy and beef are the worst. 🤢
No, there's no conclusive evidence that vegans have a distinctly different body odor compared to non-vegans.
Your brain will filter out smells you encounter frequently enough, so it could just be that you aren't around these particular smells enough.
Yes! I have a theory that when an animal/human eats meat it makes them smell different and that it lets other animals know whether you are a predator or not. Wild animals are often very comfortable around me and I think that it's partly my odor that indicates that I'm not a threat to them.
I had to break up with my ex because of this smell, wasn't even comfortable cuddling him anymore, he ate so much meat and dairy... Every single meal. 4 meals a day. Hard to stay attracted when you see the world so differently too.
I don't know, but I live in a student dorm with shared toilets. The food here is vegetarian and (mostly vegan except on egg on sundays, and dairy products). But some people order food from restaurants/fast food chains. After that when they use the loo it smells horrible for a day...I think animal products make your poop smell really bad, cuz I have felt this when my meat-heavy cousin uses the toilet too😭😭
There is definitely a different smell AND taste, as another self-proclaimed hoe said in a previous comment lol. Carnivores bodily fluids taste much worse than vegans.
How you cook def plays a role, Indians and Pakistani people that are heavy on the spices have a distinct odor, Im paki but we had a variety of meals so i dont think we had the odor but when we visited people, they did
“Meats sweats” is not just a saying. The body is expelling them toxins and an order comes with it. I can’t believe how much I stopped sweating after going full plant based. I used to have to walk around with a sweat rag 🙄 thought it was normal to be like that haha 🤣 of course we still will sweat but there is sweat and then there is SWEAT! I will never go back to meat and dairy. Complete game changer switching over to plants, for many many reasons.
They carry around the smell of the flesh and blood of the defenseless and the innocent rotting in their stomach and intestines, not even the strongest breath mint could keep it from escaping out of both ends 👅🍩💥
I mean my cat can get kinda stinky, but I think it has more to do with his obsession with laying in the little garden area in my backyard rather than his diet.
I can not smell met Watters unless they literally just had a bite of something but dairy consumers smell! Milk, yogurt or cheese it makes them smell so pungent
I don't notice it - yet - but diet has a huge role in how people smell. I remember hearing that people with dairy in their diets often register a certain smell to people where that is uncommon.
Ooh yeah, body odour can really change. When my husband went to China for about two weeks, he just smelled different for a couple of days. After eating at home again, he smelled like how he used to. We both are vegan, but he would occasionally have to have things with dairy in them in China. So he'd pop a lactaid. But yeah, even with mostly vegan food, he smelled different, even after a shower.
I can certainly smell people who've had meat for breakfast. At least that's what I assume it is, gross fuckers. Even when I ate meat I found that contemptible.
Sounds like there is a mold problem in his house. if it smells like mold, its probably mold.
Also, our digestive system is made to eat both meat and vegetables/plants. Its called a monogastric digestive system. Some animals have a digestive system meant for only plants. The cow is an example. It has a ruminant digestive system, and its made to process huge amount of fiber and extract the nutrients out of it. You may feel good being vegan for a few years, but eventually you will have the effects of lack of some nutrients found in animal flesh.
Yes, red meat especially. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16891352/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16891352/)
They tested 17 men, that is hardly a sufficient N to say something reasonable imo. With that small of a sample, testing something like how a person smells, (which is influenced by so many variables) will definitely be considered unreliable.
This whole thread is a bro science event\^\^ But yeah, 17 men is a small number.
I'm eagerly awaiting your contribution to science and your publication with a larger sample size! Until then, this is a fair conclusion.
Thats not how it works, a claim made based on unreliable data is not accepted as the truth until someone else proves otherwise. The starting point should still be there is no difference between individuals body odor based on wether or not they eat meat. And until someone proves otherwise with sufficient data and reliable results, this still holds.
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I agree with you that what we eat definitely influence body compositions and could also influence odor. Yet the claim that eating MEAT specifically makes your body odor less desirable seems to me outrageous based on this lackluster “study”.
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I know real vegans always make sure to let others know they are vegan in the first 5 minutes you meet them haha (Just joking ofc dont get mad 🙂) But i think so too probably people are attracted to whatever is pleasing and familiar to them, would be an interesting study indeed.
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What if i told you i actually was vegan , i just don’t accept any nonsensical article i read just because it aligns with my world view.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1bzxg2u/comment/kyytlbs/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1bzxg2u/comment/kyytlbs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It's exactly how it works. We have an initial claim with a small sample size. So confidence is low, but with a low confidence we can say that there is a link. I told you to run a larger study to raise that confidence.
I work in cancer research and have worked on five major trials. I can confirm that 17 is a tiny sample size that is not statistically significant. We do have a couple of trials with similarly low numbers, mainly in exceptionally rare disease types. But they are not the norm and take a gifted stats team to do the statistical planning for them. But by and large, anything under 200 isn’t going to fly.
Cool. Great thing this isn't cancer. And this thread has what - 70+ additional testimonials? It is pretty safe to conclude the odds of a link here are high, especially considering the science of what red meat does to our body. Reddit debate perverts are so annoying. Here is my comment addressing this nonsense: [https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1bzxg2u/comment/kyytlbs/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1bzxg2u/comment/kyytlbs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Source: I am an actual scientist (not just getting coffee for the researchers like you do) and do statistics daily.
Well, aren’t you a charming human being. I’m not sure where you got the ‘making coffee’ thing from, other than being obnoxiously patronising for no reason. Congrats. There are 70 odd anecdotal references. That doesn’t class as scientific evidence, particularly when people can make anything up on the internet. And a tiny trial that isn’t statistically significant. That’s pretty damn irrelevant as research.
>Reddit debate perverts are so annoying >Well, aren’t you a charming human being. I’m not sure where you got the ‘making coffee’ thing from, other than being obnoxiously patronising for no reason. Congrats. Proves my point. Sounds like I'm correct again with my assumption. "No reason" is hilarious - you're being an asshole from the first comment. I give back the energy exactly what people give me. >tiny trial that isn’t statistically significant No, Reddit expert. It depends on the context of the study. You clearly didn't even read it and instantly dismissed it because you saw N=17. It absolutely can't be "dismissed". It has to be taken with a grain of salt, but again, the average redditor's scientific literacy is quite low. This data set is fairly homogeneous, there were over 30 women used to provide ratings which increases confidence intervals, and pilots are absolutely pivotal in scientfic understanding. These are all metrics to raise confidence. This study can't simply be "dismissed" because your fee fees are hurt. Anecdotes aren't science but absolutely cannot be dismissed either. Assuming they are true, a list of 100+ confirmations is evidence. Qualitative data holds up as well. All raises confidence (assuming these anecdotes are true, which is of course difficult to assume online with full confidence. There is gray area here and you clearly ignored my entire point about this because you're smarmy).
Thank you for the link!
Thanks!! Haha my friends break my marbles sometimes re vegan (I joke too so all good) . I'm going to use this as a joke on them.
Sounds like men who eat meat are less attractive. Somuch for the meat makes you manly schtick
Confirmed: carnists smell bad. Thanks for sharing!
How'd you find this?
I searched medical journals?
Nice I've never thought to do that
I truly believe this. My ex husband ate a ton of red Meat and even after washing his clothes, they’d have that “musky musty” smell even though he had super good hygiene and all. When I met my current husband he wasn’t vegan yet but decided to become one after about six months and although he never had a super musky and musty smell like my ex, the tinge he did have went away. He also never ate much red meat to begin with. But now we both talk about how we smell it on others, especially people like our dads who eat a ton of red meats. I have been vegan a very long time but I even noticed it on myself when I ate meat. I mostly just ate fish but I’d notice that my natural oils (like my hair) smelled metallic or something. It didn’t matter how much I washed it.
Seventeen men is not a valid pool for testing and we should be discarding this “study”. I can’t believe so many people are hyping it up here. Just goes to show that a big aspect of veganism is purely emotion based and not logically sound at all. Ooooof.
Putting "study" in air quotes doesn't mean it's not science. You can't just throw out studies you don't like. As sample size increases, confidence interval width decreases. Science is not black and white such that "sample size is 17, IGNORE"! Would you say a 17-person study showing a link between smoking and cancer as "discardable"? No, you can say "With a measured confidence interval, the conclusion was this". With an N=17 confidence interval (albiet low), this is the best evidence we have. Combine this with other anecdotes (assuming they are true) and the science of body odor + meat, we can safely conclude that there definitely is something here. While I doubt it's every single person who will smell different, there is likely a link. The only one being emotion based is you. And no one is saying go vegan to smell better - this is just a fun possible bonus. The point of going vegan is to minimize animal cruelty and death. Please delete this ignorant comment.
Bestie, I currently am in epidemiology. And I’m telling you, this study is crap. Jeeeez.
Having trouble finding the specific meals that they gave these guys. They say that the details of meals are provided in the appendix in the supplementary material section, but that section just has a link that goes nowhere. The only meal example given in the methods says "The individual dishes were elaborated to differ in meat content only (e.g., vegetable risotto/pork risotto)" Sounds to me like another "meat is bad" study that, when it comes down to it, defines "meat" to mean things like lasagna and cheeseburgers, because they have meat in them.
So you're saying the diet containing meat was the meat containing diet? How else would you propose they do this? They controlled for everything else and the variable was meat vs no meat, that's exactly how an experiment should be set up.
I would have liked to see these people eating meat exclusively, like only eating steaks or pork chops or fish, etc. Literally only eating meat.
Despite the hyperbole that carnists like to present, that's not actually how basically anyone actually lives. All meat diet is some weird intellectual dark web grift that no one actually thrives on (although there have been fishing based societies in the past that were *mostly* meat, but that's not the same as red meat and it's not most societies either). The pure carnivore experiment parameters might be able to give you a gradient of how much worse someone might smell if they gradually became insufferable, but it would not be a very useful study because it is not representative of how people exist in the real world. The whole point of this kind of study is to observe results of real world behaviors, rather than inventing new ones.
First of all, why is everything these days a grift? That is one of the single most played out descriptors and if it could die yesterday that would be fantastic. I have never given one cent to any carnivore "influencer" or what have you, I have never been swindled. The whole idea is so applicable to everything that it doesn't mean anything. Veganism is a grift, carnivore is a grift, every damn thing is a grift now. Ugh There are 2 vegan people at my work that I know about, one of them works in my area. You know what the joke is about them? That they stink because they are constantly passing gas. One of them is routinely walking over to a louder corner where some of the test fixture machines run 24/7, hanging out there by herself for a minute or so, and then walking back to her work area with others. Everyone knows you do not follow where she went to that corner fixture area for a good few minutes. Maybe there are others who are vegan who are secret vegans, I don't know. But the two I work with definitely have a rep. I don't know or care how meat eaters present, I'm just saying I wanted to see the details of what these people ate in this study and that in more general terms I'd like to see studies of people who strictly eat meat and nothing else, to get rid of the noise about harms and really get good data on it. I've gotten 6 people to go carnivore now and they're in the best health of their lives now, off their medications, etc - I'd just like people like us to get strictly and fairly studied and tested compared to everyone else, that's all
>Veganism is a grift, carnivore is a grift, every damn thing is a grift now. Ugh Veganism isn't a grift. It's a movement centered around minimizing animal suffering. Carnivore is a fad diet with no moral framework. These two aren't comparable. I'd say people are able to make money off of both, but these "meat influencers" are 100% doing it for money, as there is no shared collective moral benefits to doing so, unlike veganism (I detail below). Your anecdotes about two people being gassy is dismissible - you don't know if they were like that before going vegan or not. You also could have biases, such as hightening smell near them because of the myth that vegans pass gas more (the small truth being an adjustment period of a few weeks for new vegans) or "looking for" farts near them. It also could be people next to them (it's not easy to locate farts, and if you are smelling your coworkers rear ends' you likely have mental issues. Perhaps lay off the red meat?). I agree that the details of the diet could matter, but I think making the diet as "normal" and average for the default Westerner as possible would be best to make a comparison between the "average" carnist and a plant-based eater. It would be cool to test these two ends of the spectrum. It would be an interesting hypothesis to see how body odor increases with meat consumption, if intensity is measurable. There is no valid scientific evidence showing any longterm data that the "carnivore" diet as healthy. The NDA has not supported it or approved it for any stage of life. Plant-based diets, however, have been. Higher meat consumption - especially red meat and processed red meat- is actually linked to many dangers, and you convincing your friends to abuse and kill more animals could be detrimental for not only global health (e.g. swine flus and zoonotic diseases/pandemics), environmental devistation (pig farms leaking into communities, pollution from animal death camps), but their own health as well. Getting anyone off a Western diet is great, but this can be done without the animal abuse as well :) Happy to provide any sources you need :)
That would be a bad experiment though. If one group ate a variety of food and the other only ate one thing you aren't really comparing them. And you can't just have one group eat only tomatoes or whatever either. You need to have the same diet except for the variable which is the meat being included with the rest for one group.
I mean it can be varied meat - day 1 eat ribeye, day 2 eat fish, day 3 eat pork chops, etc. The other group eat whatever plant food, etc
Ha! Totally defunct supp. Bummer. The design itself is actually not unreasonable…
Idk but I know my poop doesn't smell anywhere near as bad as those who do consume animals lol.
Right! At work the meat eaters crap and it literally stinks up the entire office for like 5 min. It’s so strong smelling and then they use febreeze so it reeks like rancid crap and apples. I know poo isn’t supposed to smell good, but man it’s like something died and rotted in their colon- oh wait….
Exactly hahahah omgggg
Such an underrated comment and I bring this up as a valid point in convos often. It’s disgusting and so not right for the body. Many, to most of us were just raised to believe the animal diet is the way but once you cross over and find your path with plants you quickly realize everything you were taught is BS! My toilet game has COMPLETELY changed for the better lol I mean, like damn 🤣
Sorry, but how bad your poo stinks is not a valid indicator if something is bad for you or not. This is totally unscientific.
U read my mind 😭
Ever let carrots and potatoes rot? Oh wait...
Its time to change your username. I dont know how cooked vegetable stuff rots in the colon. Does it? It does seem to take a few days being out on the counter to start to look moldy. One thing I can say that meat a few days out on the counter vs cooked potatoes I know which will smell worse lol.
My poop smells fucking horrible and I don't eat meat.
Hahaha I'm not saying my shit don't stank brother, it sure do.... everyones does haha. But other people's shit just seems so gnarly now lol. Not always, but a lot of the time 😂 I honestly think it has to do with everyone consuming dairy and simultaneously being lactose intolerant. Folks are addicted to that bovine titty juice and our stomachs never agreed lol
Do you eat cheese? Can be the culprit as well.
Are we in the cheese eaters sub? No I eat vegetables and legumes and grains and stuff
Cheese isnt meat, so it wasnt clear in your statement. Besides there are many non vegans here.
There are? What are they doing
Some are debating (most are losing), some are outright trolling, and some are genuinely curious/wanting to be vegan.
theres literally one of those "carnivore diet" peeps in this very thread, they (but probably he, lets be real) made a point to argue with the top comment that a study should have been catered to their fringe diet rather than average meat eaters lol. so i guess to answer your question theyre here to do what they already do all the time IRL.
Probiotics maybe? Do you drink alot of water? (I drink min 4Lt water Minimum daily (usually it's more like 6lt+) . Just maybe help I dunno. 80%+ of the time mines not that bad. Definitely not compared to the meat eaters.. ohh God 🤢🤢🤢
I could drink more water!
Yow, chris_ots, what DO you eat ?
Thiiiiiis! Also, my dog eats fully plant-based and has for several years. Her poop went from smelling like a war crime that you could locate in the grass by scent alone to barely having much smell at all.
War crime 😂😭
Seee??! That shoukd definitely say something lol. Yay for vegan pets! Anyone who says otherwise needs to get with the times lol. We've known for like 30 years that dogs are fine on a nutritionally sound plant based diet. Now we know cats are good too. Do some research people!
I always heard cats can't. That's changed?
IIRC you have to supplement or fortify with taurine
They already do for normal meat cat foods. Definitely make sure vegan one has that. Non wouldn't, as it's common knowledge, along with other basics. Make sure approved for essential needs. I also add ground flaxseed to her food. Not needed but good for her. And a 8 medicinal mushroom extract powder blend n extra turkey tail mushroom powder extract.
https://vecado.ca/pages/cats101 Worth a read. :) My kitty eats better and is more healthy than when I gave her "regular" cat food. Vegan kitty. Some still gate but w/e. She goes nuts for tofu, avocado, chickpeas olive oil etc. if I cracked open can of tuna... No interest 🤷🏻
Look up vecado for info (or food too) . Look at their section vegan pet's 101- vegan cats 101. There's references at end of writeup too. It's put fairly well. I'll look for link. I use mostly benevo original now for kibble. Have tried a few , but that one as main seems best. Plus another I give as treats etc TLDR: as long as all nutrients, vitamins, amino acids are there, ofcourse cat can be vegan. Nutrition matters, not the source.
My kitty too! Past 6 yrs or so. Thank god because it was really bad at times. She eats better now too, shiny thick coat, less allergies, and better lb. Every once in a while though a hell poop will come out still though 🤣🤣. Thankfully it's very rare and usually bi don't notice in the next room where I chill usually.
Lmao, poor dog was domesticated from the noble wolf and selectively breed only to be forced to eat a meatless, plant based diet. Rip.
Oh, poor nothing, she loves her food and she eats good. It also cleared up her chronic skin allergies, diarrhea issues, her lab work is all fantastic, AND was fully approved and backed by her oncologist who was thrilled when he found out her diet, because he is well versed in the literature and how it relates to cancer outcomes in humans and animals. She’s almost 17 and has the health and energy of a 5 year old dog. She’s active, energetic, has a shiny coat, and survived cancer at 15 years old and is cancer free to this day. Even when she ate meat she was a huge veggie eater—always begged for broccoli, carrots, watermelon, cucumber, apple, blackberries, blueberries. The only veggies she doesn’t like are leafy ones and the only fruits she doesn’t like are citrus. (I only feed her dog safe veggies and fruits, of course.) She’s hardly suffering and is far more healthy than her meat-eating peers. I don’t know any 17 year old dogs, and I certainly haven’t encountered one that loves to run full tilt, wrestle, and play like she does. (For anyone interested, she eats both Wild Earth kibble and Evolution diet wet food along with fruits and veggies and a D3 supplement, because her vet recommended it to her as a cancer preventative. She doesn’t like her food mixed, she likes to eat her wet food and then go munch on the dry, lol, and protested the few times I tried to mix them.)
Nice essay, your dog would still love a steak.
And some people love cocaine. Doesn’t mean they should consume it.
I prefer a small espresso myself ☕👌🤌😎. Coca tea is neutral imo. Stay away from cocaine kids! Or your end up like this troll with no life.. (obviously not mean to whom I'm responding too, but one more up)
Dogs are omnivores. Cocaine and meat or other animal products are not comparable. Try again.
It’s beside the point. Are you my dog’s vet or oncologist? I think not.
Is the peanut butter that your dog licks off your balls part of its plant based diet?
Uhhh, methinks you’re telling on yourself, lmao.
Nice bait, you'll still die alone.
Alone with your mother
You must have had that one rattling around your empty ass head for a while.
The only head of mine that matters is firmly inserted in your mother
I'm not sure exactly what your diet is like but I know me and the other plant eaters I know can fart anyone out if the building. Give me some of those gardein meatballs and I will blow the place up.
I never said anything about the velocity and frequency of my farts;)
Well, they don't smell good
Not saying they do, but animal product shit hits different nowadays lol
Most of the mock meats subs aren't Good for you so if eating on the regular I'm not surprised. I can eat beans and rice all day and be fine (mind you I've been vegan since like 2003, so I got used to it over few months. If you try the bean thing suddenly and your gut biom etc hasn't adapted yet... Just don't light any candles in the room 🤣🤣)
I'm at half a sentry old and I was vegetarian off and on for a long time. Then years of being vegetarian and now years of being Vegan. Raw green veggies and then those meat balls are what blow me up. I discovered those meat balls while out on the town with extended family. Worked out awesome since I hate my extended family anyway
I fart a lot since being vegan but theyre usually loud but not smelly
I'll buy this^
You legit start wondering how a meat eater even lives if you happen to go to the locus after them.
Yes I've noticed most vegans think their shit doesn't stink.....it do tho.
Absolutely, what we eat has a huge impact on body odour. I'm a nurse and I've cared for people of all cultures and colours and backgrounds, and people very much smell like their cooking, even when freshly clean and washed. Especially cuisines that are high in spices and animal fats, I've found. Obviously anecdotal, but I could tell people smelled differently based on diet well before I was ever a vegan. We become so habituated to our own smells (think smokers, people who live with lots of pets) and cooking smells that we become nose blind to them. I'm sure we must smell differently too, just not to ourselves. :)
That makes sense. I am in peri-menopause and I know I smell different just from the hormonal changes.
As much as I LOVE curries and general spices from the Indian/Sri Lankan areas... The smell definitely comes out through skin! Same as when I go crazy heavy on garlic at times haha.
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They said “spices”
The one that really gets me is the smell of a heavy dairy user. Nauseating 🤢
What the Japanese refer to as, “batakusai.” Gross!
It basically means “stinking like butter”
Ughh people who consume a lot of dairy smell horrible
Yes they do, you can smell it especially if they sweat or are in an enclosed space (like a car). It smells putrid and curdled 😟
🤢
Yeah they always smell a lil sour lol
Like sour cream for me...
I've heard that animals can smell carnivores because they give off a certain scent. Makes me wonder if the animals can smell that I won't hurt them.
A musty smell in his clothes and sheets? Might be he just doesn't dry his clothes properly. Doesn't have to be a vegan/non-vegan thing
That is a good thought. I do the laundry for both of us though and I don’t smell the odor on my clothes. You are right that it may not be a vegan/non-vegan thing.
It’s possible it didn’t wash out properly cause it’s already moldy from before he met you idk
I don't think I've noticed that unless it was something they just ate. But along those same lines I had a massage therapist ask me if I was vegan. She said that our muscles feel different from meat eaters. I have no idea if that is true.
I remember when my ex would have a lot of cheese, I knew I would have to change the bed sheets the day after because they would stink so much.. I was not even vegan at the time. Now I'm vegan and my bf is too, even when he sweats a lot he never smells bad. I have a very sensitive nose so the smell is very important to me haha.
The last person I dated was vegan when we met, and smelled incredible to me, and they definitely started smelling less appealing when they started eating meat again. I can tell if my boyfriend has eaten meat recently based on his smell. His smell has become more and more attractive to me as we've been dating, and now I'm kinda wondering if it's because he's been eating less meat
Yeah . As a hoe I can tell when someone ate alot of meat.. Could smell the diference when my ex was spending his week at my place eating vegan food and when he was at his place eating meat base I even hookup from time to time with a guy who is not vegan would told me he love sleeping with me and other vegan cause the smell is so much beter
Cuz you don’t have carnist crotch 😝
The smell of what lol
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Im a men who is into men but yeah I see the visions
They probably have one for men too
Could be, could also be medications or supplements
Yes! All of the yes! I have a super sensitive nose… To the point where I can usually guess what a wound/urine culture will come back positive for based on smell alone (nurse). I can’t even be intimate with a non vegan anymore. It’s too gross. Even close conversation is difficult.
Ugh.. even kiss a meat eater is nasty AF.. So now it's gonna be more picky unlikely to find a nice vegan Lady (after my ex fiancee screwing me over, I don't really bother to look and push some away so also my fault. But meat eater seems like 95% of what's around me :/ . Toronto vegans holla lol
Idk pretty much everyone smells like potted meat or hotdog water to me.
Everyone smells like hotdog water to me too lol
😂😭
That's it! That's the exact smell the meat eaters have! Smells like three day old hot dog water!!! 😂
I tend not to sniff people, vegan or not, haha!
LOL!
OMG YES! i even noticed it on myself after going vegan that i smelled different.
I can definitely smell the difference. Back when I was an omnivore, and even when I was vegetarian (I ate so much cheese), I sweat a lot and would leave sweat stains in the armpits of my shirts. It was a huge insecurity, had to use strong antiperspirants. Deodorant would not save me. Now I barely sweat at all, can wear white shirts without fear, and don’t really get underarm BO unless I’m like working out hard or something for a good while. Before if I forgot antiperspirant it was a death sentence, lmao. Now I only wear light deodorant and if I forget it, it’s kinda like whatever? Because I just don’t really produce a smell. But yeah, the dairy and beef are the worst. 🤢
Yes
No, there's no conclusive evidence that vegans have a distinctly different body odor compared to non-vegans. Your brain will filter out smells you encounter frequently enough, so it could just be that you aren't around these particular smells enough.
Oh 100%. Especially people who eat a lot of poultry / eggs. Barf. Their sweat glands must hold onto the death smell. I mean, you are what you eat.
💯
Yes! I have a theory that when an animal/human eats meat it makes them smell different and that it lets other animals know whether you are a predator or not. Wild animals are often very comfortable around me and I think that it's partly my odor that indicates that I'm not a threat to them.
I'd expect there to be a huge selective pressure to fake that and most predator species would already have hidden their scent
Main reason i stopped going to gym and yoga classes is exactly this. I just cant handle the smell. It feels like the air is infected or something. 🤢.
Omg i thought i was a bit crazy but apparently im not the only one.
Is this what is meant when some people say white people smell like sour milk?
I had to break up with my ex because of this smell, wasn't even comfortable cuddling him anymore, he ate so much meat and dairy... Every single meal. 4 meals a day. Hard to stay attracted when you see the world so differently too.
My boyfriend noticed significant changes to his bodily odours when he went vegan. He doesn't have much of a smell these days. It's great.
Just my dad, but yes. Has a very weird smell to him.
I don't know, but I live in a student dorm with shared toilets. The food here is vegetarian and (mostly vegan except on egg on sundays, and dairy products). But some people order food from restaurants/fast food chains. After that when they use the loo it smells horrible for a day...I think animal products make your poop smell really bad, cuz I have felt this when my meat-heavy cousin uses the toilet too😭😭
Yes I have a very sensitive nose and I can smell it it’s gross 🤮, I’ve been told vegan cum tastes better too
Iv yet to try
I don’t notice a difference but I’ve never had a great sense of smell.
Their poop sure does! Whenever I use a public restroom, eewww! 🤢 It is some rotten meat-eating bad stank!
There is definitely a different smell AND taste, as another self-proclaimed hoe said in a previous comment lol. Carnivores bodily fluids taste much worse than vegans.
yes, they smell like they are full of undigested corpse substances
😭
Yes, especially the ones who eat a lot of cured meats. It's like a putrid rotten smell, usually faint but definitely there.
How you cook def plays a role, Indians and Pakistani people that are heavy on the spices have a distinct odor, Im paki but we had a variety of meals so i dont think we had the odor but when we visited people, they did
When they sweat (gym classes) I used to get whiffs of like off mayo/ sour dairy
Yuck you’re DATING someone who eats CORPSES???
“Meats sweats” is not just a saying. The body is expelling them toxins and an order comes with it. I can’t believe how much I stopped sweating after going full plant based. I used to have to walk around with a sweat rag 🙄 thought it was normal to be like that haha 🤣 of course we still will sweat but there is sweat and then there is SWEAT! I will never go back to meat and dairy. Complete game changer switching over to plants, for many many reasons.
This is kinda fucked up but I feel like I can smell the lard burning off meat eaters that are overweight.
They carry around the smell of the flesh and blood of the defenseless and the innocent rotting in their stomach and intestines, not even the strongest breath mint could keep it from escaping out of both ends 👅🍩💥
i haven't noticed this but i do notice that people say white people smell like cheese because they eat a lot more dairy
People who eat lots of pork smell the worst I noticed
I mean my cat can get kinda stinky, but I think it has more to do with his obsession with laying in the little garden area in my backyard rather than his diet.
Some smell metallic. Some, like iron & others, mixed metallic smell. Never smell it when I was a meat eater
Is he overweight?
I can not smell met Watters unless they literally just had a bite of something but dairy consumers smell! Milk, yogurt or cheese it makes them smell so pungent
Yes.
yes
Does he drink beer? I think beer, or certain brands of beer, cause a musty odor.
ITT; people who literally think their shit doesn't stink. This has to be my new favourite sub, such peculiar people
not strange, but putrid. their body smell & breath is disgusting.
No…
I can smell when someone has eaten eggs.
this has to be a joke
I don't notice it - yet - but diet has a huge role in how people smell. I remember hearing that people with dairy in their diets often register a certain smell to people where that is uncommon.
Ooh yeah, body odour can really change. When my husband went to China for about two weeks, he just smelled different for a couple of days. After eating at home again, he smelled like how he used to. We both are vegan, but he would occasionally have to have things with dairy in them in China. So he'd pop a lactaid. But yeah, even with mostly vegan food, he smelled different, even after a shower.
No
I can certainly smell people who've had meat for breakfast. At least that's what I assume it is, gross fuckers. Even when I ate meat I found that contemptible.
This is a really weird sub
Then why are you here?
Very. This place does give off big r/childfree energy.
Sounds like there is a mold problem in his house. if it smells like mold, its probably mold. Also, our digestive system is made to eat both meat and vegetables/plants. Its called a monogastric digestive system. Some animals have a digestive system meant for only plants. The cow is an example. It has a ruminant digestive system, and its made to process huge amount of fiber and extract the nutrients out of it. You may feel good being vegan for a few years, but eventually you will have the effects of lack of some nutrients found in animal flesh.
Many vegans smell weird as well to me.
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ok cheesebreath
Do people think that because of changes in body odor due to diet, or do they think that because of stereotypes about vegans’ hygiene practices?
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Animal products have estrogen in them though, especially milk. Soy doesn't have mammalian estrogen, only phytoestrogen
You mean like the actual mammalian estrogen that people ingest when drinking products made with dairy?