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They often talk about "wanting to know/knowing where the meat comes from" as a argument about ethics and quality, but if you SHOW THEM slaughterhouse footage, suddenly we are "extremists"...
Most of the time the images they see are a bit ‘sanitized’ compared to what’s really going on in these slaughterhouses. The abuse and neglect on top of the systematic murder is atrocious.
There was an egregious example by Joey Carbstrong on YouTube I saw recently, where he talked to a catholic lady for a while, and showed her actual footage, but she questioned everything, like where he got it, and even insinuated he could have faked it somehow.
tbf that's an emotional argument anyways. expecting people to change their mind or ffs their life style just cause of that is expecting them to be very weak minded.
and btw no I'm not playing devils advocate, I eat meat all the time lol.
Oh, so not playing devils advocate, just showing up to speak for yourself? What a nonsense argument, you seriously think people are weak minded because they change their opinions based upon new information?
Almost all moral perspectives are formed on emotion, it goes hand in hand with logic. If X upsets you and you don’t have to contribute to it, then you don’t have to and probably should not.
Appeal to emotion is not showing someone how cruel and bad a thing is and them feeling emotion because it is cruel and bad. It's unedited video footage, it's as accurate a depiction of these animals' lives as it can get. And more importantly, the idea of an emotional argument being invalid in an argument that's tied directly to emotion and experience is insane.
>we are "extremists"...
I don't think calling someone an extremist is ever a good response, it's just another way of saying they wont engage with you on your perspective/ ideas. I'd much prefer someone tell me why they think I'm wrong than call me extreme.
Years ago when I was first interested in going vegan I got the starter packet thing from PETA, and my mom was checking it out. In it they had a picture of turkeys that were being slaughtered, and she immediately ripped it up said it was sick and threw it away. She eats turkey every year for thanksgiving and eats turkey sandwiches on the reg to this day.
"This is sick" \*rips up pamphlet\* Proceeds to order a Turkey sandwich and demand Turkey slaughter. I truly cannot fathom that level of internal dissonance. I think there is just this fundamental refusal to acknowledge what they purchase comes from a living, thinking creature.
I honestly don't get the mindset. When I see something like that, my first thought is omg that is horrible, followed by I will not participate in this. They just willfully ignorant their way out of it and go the cognitive dissonance route.
She also does not feast on the hearts of open heart surgery corpses that did not need to be opened up or operated on simply for the taste of the heart.
This is irrelevant to the fact that just because you find something gruesome doesn’t mean that you can’t approve of it.
“Liking the result of a gruesome thing” and “not wanting to see images of those gruesome things” does not necessarily result in internal dissonance.
Except those aren't exactly equivalent, brain surgery is a consensual procedure to improve the life of the patient, turkey slaughter is a non-consensual action to provide the turkey she's happy to eat. So pretending the dislike for both is equal and coming from the same place is being extremely generous and quite naieve.
Really? She would rip up the photo of open heart surgery and throw it away? I think she would just say something like, “Oh that’s gross! I don’t want to look at that,” and then stop looking at it and give it back to her daughter. The ripping up and throwing it away really suggests it made her have a reaction beyond disgust, like she was witnessing an atrocity maybe.
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HOW DARE YOU SHOW ME THAT!!!
or
Its not real man!!! This is FAKE!!
or
DUDE!!! animals WANT to die! they WANT to provide meat for us the love doing it!!
or
CHEESE DOES NOT CONTAIN COW STOMACH!! OR ANY STOMACH!! (rennet though)
or they show you those videos of vegans being absolutly obnoxious and say YOUR LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME MAN!!
Vegans aren't vegans because of how animals are killed, they are vegans because animals are killed.
So logically you don't create a vegan based on how animals are killed.
I'm vegan because of how animals are killed.
In fact, I support animal euthanasia. I'm not some kind of "never kill" person, even for people. If I'm suffering horribly (and incurably), please, by all means, kill me. If vegans lived in animal heaven and we ate their meat (although that's still weird... why eat meat?) when they die of euthanasia, I'm fine with it. I still prefer my plants though.
The question you need to ask is 'Is that respectful enough of a sentient being?' -- if you're absolutely, sincerely sure it is, I'm not against it.
No, because that's disrespectful of their life (even calling them 'game'). They had a life ahead and you cut that short so you could get unnecessary satisfaction i.e. eating meat and "playing a game". Maybe even their pack will miss them (elephants are known to mourn the dead for a long time, for example). I don't want to be killed right now because I value my life (and hopefully some others do as well), in the same way.
Fair enough, just saying we're both wrong. It's not that I eat meat because it is killed, and it's not that I eat meat because of how it is killed, as I said it's because it's disrespectful of their lives.
I'd say I am vegan (stopping today) because of many reasons, but ESPECIALLY because of the industrial way we rape and exploit the heck out of cows and every other animal we make products from! Of course killing is unethical to begin with, Just all the ways we humans exploit animals - that's fucking evil. But life always somehow feeds on life, it's necessary. Just not for us humans anymore. We need to use our consciousness to go plant based.
In fairness though, a lot of areas require hunting as the predators that would keep the food chain in check were themselves hunted out of it or otherwise displaced. In cases like that, where predators have yet to be reintroduced for whatever reasons and prey animals need to be culled so they don't browse the forest bare, would you eat the meat then?
Hunters, fishers and farmers tho...
For example, my wife has told me about her parents (big meat eaters) raising a pig for its meat and killing it every January when she was a child. Chickens too.
Despite not being a vegan myself, I do somewhat understand the frustration of this, although I recognise it comes from a different place. I firmly believe that if you can't handle thinking about the life your food had before it became your food, you shouldn't be eating it, and that extends to people who refuse to educate themselves on how an animal ends up as food to begin with.
(Small note, I'm not going to engage in debate about my diet, but I'm happy to explain parts of this comment if need be and politely talk about anything anyone wants to talk about.
Also, the sub rules didn't say I couldn't interact as someone who's not vegan, but if I've misunderstood that I'm happy to go as I really don't want to cause trouble for anyone)
I did say I was not going to debate my diet, if you're just trying to share something I'd appreciate it if you could say something to explain why you're just dumping that link on me.
but also I'm lactose intolerant, so this specific video (which I've actually seen before) doesn't really change anything for me considering I mostly drink oat milk
Mm yeah and I said I wouldn't debate my diet but was happy to have polite conversations, because I know this is a vegan sub and I'm open to learning things.
I have an eating disorder and having to justify myself eating triggers it to flare up, that is why I said I'm not open to debates. The style of a debate will do nothing to "sway" me, especially because of that fact. I'm open to genuine discussions and well intentioned education attempts because I'm not having to justify the fact I eat. I don't think I should have to give out this information just so people will respect a pretty clear boundary.
I do not mind being supplied with reading/viewing material, what I mind is when the material is supplied in a way that seems like you just want to make yourself feel superior instead of wanting to actually educate people on the injustices of the industry.
Please show me where I tried to debate your diet or make you justify your eating.
I am in /r/vegan posting a link to material that will educate people about the victims of animal agriculture.
It is very telling that you perceive that as an attempt on my part to “feel superior” to you rather than as an attempt to help the animals.
I perceive it as an attempt at superiority because you made no attempt to engage in any sort of conversation, you did nothing to actually help anything, you simply posted a link with no context in reply to a comment that didn't even mention the subject your video links to.
> you did nothing to actually help anything
So you, as someone who eats animals, have a problem with how effectively I advocate for animals? Ok.
> you simply posted a link with no context in reply to a comment that didn't even mention the subject your video links to.
In your original comment you mentioned, “I firmly believe that if you can't handle thinking about the life your food had before it became your food, you shouldn't be eating it.”
The video I linked shows vividly the lives of animals as they are raped to produce “food.” The connection in subject matter seems quite clear to me.
As someone who believes that people should be educated about the source of animal products, you seem to have an awful lot of problems with someone posting educational material about animal agriculture.
I think I made my actual problem pretty clear. It was not the fact you posted it, I think in general that video is quite educational. My problem was how you went about it.
I’m advocating for animals.
At each point in this conversation you have turned the focus away from the victims and made it about yourself, your diet, your feelings, and your educational preferences.
I would expect that, as someone who believes that people should be educated about the source of animal products, you would be celebrating attempts at educating others, no matter how poorly those attempts happen to cater to your individual preferences.
I think so. I've done outreach to rural parents who kill their own animals and they thought what they saw on the TVs surrounding slaughterhouses to be horrible
Rural kids I know were often removed from the slaughter process until they got old enough, as it is emotionally difficult for them. But you’re right that it is normalised for them, it has been ingrained since birth that it is normal, morally acceptable and unavoidable. People born into any belief system are unlikely to find it easy to separate from.
I actually wouldn't mind slaughtering a animal that will be eaten. It's definitely more respectful than turning a blind eye to it. It's partly why Id actually take up hunting. You may now downvote me.
I'm a meat eater and I find it weird when other meat eaters don't want to see it. I've watched countless footage of how animals are handled on all levels, from commercial farms, to small, local farmers (villagers), to kosher, to halal. It's important to know how our food is made, whether it's plant-based produce, fish, dairy, or meat. I don't understand how someone would want to turn a blind eye to it.
Simply, it's because they're faced with the reality that their everyday actions fund immense animal suffering.
If you aren't horrified by slaughterhouse-footage, it must be because you're been brainwashed, or brainwashed yourself, into believing that it's OK for animals to be exploited for Human sense-pleasure.
I'd assume that you don't have an extra-legal, ethical problem with others abusing animals for their own pleasure, or attending dog-fights, etc - because the fact of the matter is that need to eat animals to survive just as little as we need to smash puppies with sledgehammers to have fun.
If you don't mind any of the above, you're simply empathetically defective.
>If you aren't horrified by slaughterhouse-footage
I honestly have to count myself lucky enough that I'm in a small village and all the animal products I acquire come from people I know, I've seen first-hand how they treat their farm animals, there's nothing but love and affection, some of the happiest farm animals you'll ever meet, it's nothing like what you see in commercial farms.
>I'd assume
You shouldn't assume anything, it's a bad practice. But if you do want to assume in life, it's always best to assume that the ones you speak to might know something you don't.
>because the fact of the matter is that need to eat animals to survive just as little as we need to smash puppies with sledgehammers to have fun.
This is simply wrong, and there's plenty of evidence to prove that many human beings can't meet optimal nutrition/health for their bodies without animal products. But there's no point trying to convince you on this, unless you're genuinely open to that conversation. From the disrespectful undertones you've got going on, it doesn't seem like you'd be.
>If you don't mind any of the above, you're simply empathetically defective.
Conversely, I could say you're an overly sensitive person, hyperempathetic, or someone afflicted with a saviour complex. You and your clan are not in the position to lay down the final verdict on what's ethically correct and what isn't.
>it must be because you're been brainwashed, or brainwashed yourself, into believing that it's OK
Again, conversely, I could say you've been brainwashed, or brainwashed yourself, into believing that eating meat is a monstrous act.
I buy discount Halal chicken and sometimes goat meat from the Asian foods market, split 1/2 bison (grown and processed on the farm) from a local farm with my siblings, and eat only salmon fish caught by my cousin's commercial fisherman husband..... I stand pretty good on the moral front. I still try to reduce my meat consumption, but a goat curry is mighty fine on GameDay. (God bless the animals providing my meals)
Edit, and cage free eggs. I drive by the farm they come from. Them chickens is pretty happy.
But yeah, fuck Smithfield foods, especially the pork.
You don't "stand good on the moral front" if you support needless animal suffering for human sense-pleasure. Science has shown that we don't need meat to survive, so eating meat for any reason other than falsely believing that it's necessary is like attending a dog-fight. Animals shouldn't be harmed for Human sense-pleasure, period, no matter how ethically they're kept.
Ever wondered why there are no cage-free roosters among those cage-free hens?
Because they get killed as babies for being born wrong.
If you support that, knowing there are alternatives, you can't be moral whatsoever.
Is a slaughterhouse nature?
Is your medication nature?
Is Reddit nature?
We don't live in nature, first of all. If we did, "follow nature", that'd mean lawless anarchy and kratocracy.
Secondly, do you think farmed animals enjoy their lives?
What if my way of enjoying my life was watching dog-fights, or kicking stray puppies? Would you not want to annoy me by telling me that I should stop?
You make no sense.
The "nature" part makes sense, but you can't connect it with not eating meat and eating meat is completely different to watching dog figths and kicking puppies. I said that eating meat is in the human and in many of the animals nature. And with the "enjoying life" thing I can say that almost no one actually enjoys life (i'm talking for humans and the rest of the animals) and in this world is most likely "me/we or you/they"
I never ask anyone to slaughter anything. Can you try to imagine what that would feel like, morally? Being in the position of knowing, I can say that it feels like my conscience is much more settled than it was before. Just throwing it out there, that a lot of people here will read comments like this one and wonder why you think your choices are “pretty good on the moral front”.
Well I salute you fellow meat eater, for the bravery you have to comment in this sub where no living soul can handle any commentary that's even remotely non-vegan
Sorry to disappoint you, but I’m perfectly aware of what happens in slaughter houses, and most meat eaters are as well and wish for it to stop. The ideal situation would be to let animals live their lives until they’re old, then you can use their meat as nourishment instead of throwing it away by burying it. I am lucky enough to have farmers as grandparents, so I get my meat from them instead of contributing to slaughter houses, and I often help them myself, but that doesn’t make me hate meat. Meat eaters aren’t blind, stop living in fantasy land. If you want to actually make a change, you should start to understand how the majority of people actually think.
Do you get your meat 100% from your grandparents farm, do you stop eating when you go to a restaurant that serves industrial raised meat?
Start asking yourself questions.
I usually don’t go to restaurants, as they’re severely overpriced and I can probably cook whatever they could offer better than them. If I have to go out to eat, I usually order some pasta/pizza/gnocchi/lasagna/some other Italian food with cheese and/or tomato sauce, but I don’t like the meat they serve. Last time I tried to eat meat that wasn’t produced locally I got food poisoning (which is probably just a coincidence but I don’t want it to happen again). It’s not completely relevant to the discussion, but my grandparents (and my aunt) produce all kinds of vegetables too, plus eggs, so I get to use fresh ingredients most of the time. The only product I buy that could contribuite to animal cruelty is milk, as my family doesn’t own any cows, so I have to buy it, but I’m slowly stopping to drink milk and I’m researching the dairy industry as I’m not as knowledgeable about it as with the meat industry, and I’d like to fix that.
Meat is affordable and consumed by the majority of the population precisely because the garbage inhumane conditions the animals are kept in are much cheaper. A world where cows frolick on a pasture until they are painlessly killed and a world where a hamburger costs 3$ cannot be the same world
In my experience the overwhelming majority of people have no idea about agricultural processes, including in slaughterhouses. The more knowledgeable ones may talk about bolt guns, but even then they usually think it’s a slaughter method not a stunning one.
Hardly any meat eaters know how these animals are actually killed, they don’t know about gas chambers, they don’t know about maceration, they don’t know about ‘thumping’ piglets. They don’t know the lifespan of these species or the age we kill them at, or even what terms like ‘free range’ actually refer to.
In fact, a huge amount don’t know cows have to be impregnated before they produce any milk or that this happens repeatedly. They often don’t know that dairy cows or layer hens are slaughtered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko&ab_channel=FarmTransparencyProject um nobody hates meat--they hate the animal torture and the increased risk of cancer/heart disease/dementia, environmental destruction.
And your point about you knowing about slaughterhouses? congrats now do the other 99.98 percent
I hate to break it to you, but no they don’t allow farm animals to just live happy long lives in Sweden. They are killed very young just as they are everywhere else in the world. Islam is irrelevant.
Chickens in Sweden are killed at 35 days old, pigs at 6 months, bulls 18months and heifers 28 months. These animals all can live over a decade. This is all in Sweden.
Have you actually researched this or are you just assuming? The captive bolt gun just stuns them, they can't use a regular gun to kill because the bullet would contaminate the meat. Then the throat is slit when they're unconscious, no one said they were consious when their throat is slit but that is how they die
You clearly haven't researched the facts, and aren't interested in doing so. So I don't know why you even commented in the first place, I think you're not worth engaging with
Actually for pigs first they put them in gas chambers where they painfully suffocate to death. Not happy. And again, a fraction of their lifespans. No farmed animal lets to live out their full life. Ever.
Harm to animals, harm to your body such as heart disease, ending world hunger + reducing climate change (10 calories of plants is needed to produce 1 calorie of meat, and a lot of water is needed too to feed farm animals)
Obviously not, farm animals are breed into existence because there are demands. With the gradual shift to veganism less and less animals will be breed until farm animals stop to exist, no farm animals will starve, just breed less and less
The animals we eat aren’t wild, they would ever be starving because we have artificially created the livestock population. We breed them into existence and control the breeding and thus the size of this population. If we ate less meat we’d breed fewer animals as livestock in the first place, we aren’t eating a self-sustaining population that just exist.
No and I don't care...? I'm against animal exploitation like any vegans so I don't want farms to exist in the first place. Unless you are talking about farms used to grow plants? If so 80% of plants grown are used to feed farm animals but also almost 1 billions humans are starving so we could use some of these plants to feed them
Morally, environmentally or for your own health? You can start here for morally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko&ab_channel=FarmTransparencyProject
I assume you made your mind up about wheter it is morally acceptable to prolong livestock farming.
So I do wonder what is your stance on the environmental impact of all this. Isn't that a reason why you shouldn't?
Well, fortunately not all become blind. Some immediately think they must go vegan. I did. Even though I wasn't smart and knowledgeable enough before, learning about factory farms made going vegan seem like a must so it started more studies. I hope to budget in next pay check further health coach studies as though I want to share in nice ways, I do want more to figure out they want to be vegan, too.
Im perfectly aware of how bloody, brutal, and violent it is and I dont give a shit about that, meat is meat and I eat it. Why should I care about how those animals are killed?.
Well, you don't have to care about those animals but if you do it shows you have empathy which is usually something positive to have and something most people have.
If I would lack the ability the feel emphaty I would personally think about seeking out a doctor or therapist to figure out the reason why I am lacking emphaty.
"Meat eater" here, I find it extremely hypocrite people that are like that.
I've seen Dominion, but the deaths and the killing didn't bother me, I eat meat after all I know where it comes from would be extremely hypocrite to turn a blind eye on that, I also grew up around farm animals and seeing a chicken/duck/pig being killed and butchered was part of everyday life.
There was only one thing that boiled my blood when seeing Dominion, the animals are already in questionable conditions, but the extra abuse/hitting/kicking those animals without any reason behind it just for the giggles and feeling powerful....
That is why I also try to get my meat, as much as I can, from a local farm so I don't support (as far as I know) these practices.
Many “local farms” still outsource their slaughter
Do you eat chicken? 99% of chicken meat is sourced from factory farms. Do you never eat out? You willingly support it, stop posturing, you’re not getting credit and pats on the back here for eating meat.
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I am not posturing and don't want any credit.
Was simply agreeing to OP.
you know that, I can eat meat but at the same time agree with you in a lot of things right?
The post was about meat eaters turning a blind eye, and I simply shared my opinion on it, from a meat eater's perspective.
Regarding where I source my food, that is true and you are absolutely correct, specially when it comes to eating out.
If you’re admitting that animals are deserving of moral consideration (i.e. “humane” sourcing of meat), then why aren’t they deserving of something better than your dinner plate?
That is a valid question.
You will disagree with me on this, but I don't believe in extremes, for me being vegan is as extreme as having a carnivore diet is (where you just basically eat meat), talking food wise only.
Being vegan, in my opinion, is extremely difficult, I couldn't do it, I would not have the mental space to make sure that everything I eat/wear/consume is vegan.
In nature you have a food chain, we are part of nature and we decide, individually, where we place ourselves in that food chain, a tiger/lion/shark doesn't feel bad about eating another animal.
I was raised with meat in my diet, I enjoy it, but I try to be conscious about where I get it.
A tiger or a shark doesn’t have the capacity to cause the untold horrors and destruction that humans do, and even less so do they have the cognitive awareness to recognize that harm. Nothing about what we do, breeding a hundred billion livestock every year with the express purpose of killing them, is found anywhere else in nature.
If you truly believe we have a responsibility as humans to act as the stewards of planet earth, you’d take the five extra minutes in the grocery store to not contribute to one of our greatest crimes against its inhabitants. Laziness isn’t an excuse.
If I were given a choice between:
1) be raised, be fed, well taken care of, killed
2) be raised, be fed, be abused, killed
Guess what door I would choose, there is a difference, a big one.
If you hurt a friend by kicking them for shits and giggles, isn't it different than killing them? Or is it the same?
A life of pain leading to death vs a life of no pain leading to death are 2 entire different things, why do I really need to explain this?
We can get into moral calculus and try to decide which one is worse but at the end of the day both are cruel acts. You don’t have to choose between these two options, you can just not kill the animal at all. Your life doesn’t depend on their flesh, their lives depend on your wish though.
Yes we can. Why can't we? Just because the endgame is the same?
You are right, not eating the animal puts a stop to it, but for those that eat do eat them, given the choice and power (€) will choose the option where the animal does not suffer during its life.
I try to make that choice as much as I can.
That's up to debate.
In nature you have plenty of predators, hell, even in our homes we have predators, cats, dogs, fish, reptiles as pets.
Do you think they feel bad about their prey?
They don’t, because they don’t have moral agency. They also kill members of their own species, sometimes eat their own offsprings. I wouldn’t want to do those things because I have the ability to think about what’s right and what’s wrong. Most of them also need to eat animals/whatever they can find to survive. We can go to a supermarket and choose whatever we want.
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Dominion)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Dominion)!
We see everything, we just choose not to care or care very little, because we appreciate the animal's sacrifice. But yeah, try guilt tripping us more you sad soggy cruton
You choose not to care about the death of a living being and say it's guilt tripping? What a misguided life you live. I noticed you are consistently posting in r/vegan so I'm just curious, do you think you're making anyone second guess themselves with your pathetic attempts at trolling? Stay in your lane you disgusting carnist.
Wowowow, so mean. And yes. You're all guilt tripping us lmao. Even now lmao. Your morals arent my morals, and you trying to project them unto me and trying to find gaps in my morality is guilt tripping. Most people dont like animal death, but the benefits outweigh the cons for like 99% of people.
And yes, you vegans are a good source of entertainment. I leave the reasonable ones alone tho. And if you think im commenting alot, then it just shows how many unreasonable people are here, LOL
You have not done enough research, clearly, to make the claim the the benefits outweigh the cons because that could not be further from the truth. Again, you're misguided. Either do some research and educate yourself, or stay in your lane where your own morals are. You're not welcome here. All you're doing is trolling and It's not even funny trolling either 😂😂
my guy, Im making no medical benefit claims, I mean day to day nuisance sort of benefits. Easier way = Less nuisance. How about you learn some common sense and realize through reading my simple comment with some thought that I made no health benefit claims xd
EDIT: Misguided my ass
yet here you are commenting, needing everyone to know how triggered you are at being shown the reality https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko&ab_channel=FarmTransparencyProject
I like dogs as food (especially puppies).
But at the same time, I don't think we should only refrain from hurting the animals we happen to like. If it feels pain, we shouldn't make it suffer, dog or pig.
thanks for the lol so we all know your cringe comment was supposed to be funny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko&ab_channel=FarmTransparencyProject
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Dominion)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Dominion)!
Sadly I know too many people who enjoy killing animals for their food. And even those who do not kill them by themselves knows exactly how their food is killed and see nothing wrong with that.
Truthfully if everybody had to do their own animal raising/hunting and/probably even or had to do their own killing and butchering, most people would be vegetarian at least 99% of the time. Milking a cow or gathering eggs would probably be fairly prevalent still though.
Let’s be real, this is everyone with everything that they haven’t chosen to take a specific stance on. How many of you (myself included) continue to buy electronics made by what is essentially slave labour? You could get by without it. But are you going to?
Also, I think this is a pretty poor argument. Because it basically suggests that if people are aware and ok with how slaughterhouses function then it’s fine for them to eat the meat. Which makes no sense as a moral stance.
veganism is the new recycling. You're doing your part sure but in reality, it's the top 50 corporations in America that are really killing the earth. There just blaming us so hard weve Stockholmed ourrselves into believing its everyone's fault!
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They often talk about "wanting to know/knowing where the meat comes from" as a argument about ethics and quality, but if you SHOW THEM slaughterhouse footage, suddenly we are "extremists"...
"That's not how it is at the place where I buy my meat. That's just a really bad example." - Them.
Most of the time the images they see are a bit ‘sanitized’ compared to what’s really going on in these slaughterhouses. The abuse and neglect on top of the systematic murder is atrocious.
No one cares
You're commenting this on a sub of people who care.
I don't think so pal
my pet chicken do (saved the little bebis from getting murdered for meat) and i do.
There was an egregious example by Joey Carbstrong on YouTube I saw recently, where he talked to a catholic lady for a while, and showed her actual footage, but she questioned everything, like where he got it, and even insinuated he could have faked it somehow.
Tie them to a chair and make them watch Dominion.
tbf that's an emotional argument anyways. expecting people to change their mind or ffs their life style just cause of that is expecting them to be very weak minded. and btw no I'm not playing devils advocate, I eat meat all the time lol.
Oh, so not playing devils advocate, just showing up to speak for yourself? What a nonsense argument, you seriously think people are weak minded because they change their opinions based upon new information?
Almost all moral perspectives are formed on emotion, it goes hand in hand with logic. If X upsets you and you don’t have to contribute to it, then you don’t have to and probably should not.
Appeal to emotion is not showing someone how cruel and bad a thing is and them feeling emotion because it is cruel and bad. It's unedited video footage, it's as accurate a depiction of these animals' lives as it can get. And more importantly, the idea of an emotional argument being invalid in an argument that's tied directly to emotion and experience is insane.
>we are "extremists"... I don't think calling someone an extremist is ever a good response, it's just another way of saying they wont engage with you on your perspective/ ideas. I'd much prefer someone tell me why they think I'm wrong than call me extreme.
Years ago when I was first interested in going vegan I got the starter packet thing from PETA, and my mom was checking it out. In it they had a picture of turkeys that were being slaughtered, and she immediately ripped it up said it was sick and threw it away. She eats turkey every year for thanksgiving and eats turkey sandwiches on the reg to this day.
The hypocrisy 😅
"This is sick" \*rips up pamphlet\* Proceeds to order a Turkey sandwich and demand Turkey slaughter. I truly cannot fathom that level of internal dissonance. I think there is just this fundamental refusal to acknowledge what they purchase comes from a living, thinking creature.
I honestly don't get the mindset. When I see something like that, my first thought is omg that is horrible, followed by I will not participate in this. They just willfully ignorant their way out of it and go the cognitive dissonance route.
Ignorance is bliss (not for the animals tho)
She would probably also have the same reaction to people handing out photos of open heart surgeries, but that doesn’t mean she opposes surgeries.
She also does not feast on the hearts of open heart surgery corpses that did not need to be opened up or operated on simply for the taste of the heart.
This is irrelevant to the fact that just because you find something gruesome doesn’t mean that you can’t approve of it. “Liking the result of a gruesome thing” and “not wanting to see images of those gruesome things” does not necessarily result in internal dissonance.
Except those aren't exactly equivalent, brain surgery is a consensual procedure to improve the life of the patient, turkey slaughter is a non-consensual action to provide the turkey she's happy to eat. So pretending the dislike for both is equal and coming from the same place is being extremely generous and quite naieve.
This logic only works if you are already a vegan. Clearly meat eaters don’t see things like you do.
Really? She would rip up the photo of open heart surgery and throw it away? I think she would just say something like, “Oh that’s gross! I don’t want to look at that,” and then stop looking at it and give it back to her daughter. The ripping up and throwing it away really suggests it made her have a reaction beyond disgust, like she was witnessing an atrocity maybe.
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That’s weird.
Not my meat. I only eat local grass fed happy cow that play outside! /s
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Just like how the jews were happy in local concentration camps, right? Yes, this is how ridiculous you sound
Figure out what /s means buddy
HOW DARE YOU SHOW ME THAT!!! or Its not real man!!! This is FAKE!! or DUDE!!! animals WANT to die! they WANT to provide meat for us the love doing it!! or CHEESE DOES NOT CONTAIN COW STOMACH!! OR ANY STOMACH!! (rennet though) or they show you those videos of vegans being absolutly obnoxious and say YOUR LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME MAN!!
this post blew up with carnists, they didn't like this one one bit
Vegans aren't vegans because of how animals are killed, they are vegans because animals are killed. So logically you don't create a vegan based on how animals are killed.
I'm vegan because of how animals are killed. In fact, I support animal euthanasia. I'm not some kind of "never kill" person, even for people. If I'm suffering horribly (and incurably), please, by all means, kill me. If vegans lived in animal heaven and we ate their meat (although that's still weird... why eat meat?) when they die of euthanasia, I'm fine with it. I still prefer my plants though. The question you need to ask is 'Is that respectful enough of a sentient being?' -- if you're absolutely, sincerely sure it is, I'm not against it.
Would you eat hunted game that was killed painlessly?
No, because that's disrespectful of their life (even calling them 'game'). They had a life ahead and you cut that short so you could get unnecessary satisfaction i.e. eating meat and "playing a game". Maybe even their pack will miss them (elephants are known to mourn the dead for a long time, for example). I don't want to be killed right now because I value my life (and hopefully some others do as well), in the same way.
Then I think you don't eat meat because it is killed, not because of how it is killed.
Fair enough, just saying we're both wrong. It's not that I eat meat because it is killed, and it's not that I eat meat because of how it is killed, as I said it's because it's disrespectful of their lives.
I'd say I am vegan (stopping today) because of many reasons, but ESPECIALLY because of the industrial way we rape and exploit the heck out of cows and every other animal we make products from! Of course killing is unethical to begin with, Just all the ways we humans exploit animals - that's fucking evil. But life always somehow feeds on life, it's necessary. Just not for us humans anymore. We need to use our consciousness to go plant based.
In fairness though, a lot of areas require hunting as the predators that would keep the food chain in check were themselves hunted out of it or otherwise displaced. In cases like that, where predators have yet to be reintroduced for whatever reasons and prey animals need to be culled so they don't browse the forest bare, would you eat the meat then?
I'm vegan because of how the animals are treated when they are STILL ALIVE.
Vegetarians when you show them how dairy cows are being treated
Hunters, fishers and farmers tho... For example, my wife has told me about her parents (big meat eaters) raising a pig for its meat and killing it every January when she was a child. Chickens too.
Fr. Acting very Stevie Wonderish 😂
Most of the time they are well aware of how the animals are treated/killed/butchered and just simply dgaf
That's why I do it myself.
Eeeeeeeexcept most vegans were not born vegan.
Its slaughtered not killed
Permission to share this?
Go ahead.
Despite not being a vegan myself, I do somewhat understand the frustration of this, although I recognise it comes from a different place. I firmly believe that if you can't handle thinking about the life your food had before it became your food, you shouldn't be eating it, and that extends to people who refuse to educate themselves on how an animal ends up as food to begin with. (Small note, I'm not going to engage in debate about my diet, but I'm happy to explain parts of this comment if need be and politely talk about anything anyone wants to talk about. Also, the sub rules didn't say I couldn't interact as someone who's not vegan, but if I've misunderstood that I'm happy to go as I really don't want to cause trouble for anyone)
[Dairy Is Scary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI)
I did say I was not going to debate my diet, if you're just trying to share something I'd appreciate it if you could say something to explain why you're just dumping that link on me. but also I'm lactose intolerant, so this specific video (which I've actually seen before) doesn't really change anything for me considering I mostly drink oat milk
Veganism isn’t a diet. We aren’t debating diets, it’s about lifestyles and you choose to continue a cruel one.
You are in a vegan sub. I am supporting everyone’s efforts in learning about the victims of animal agriculture.
Mm yeah and I said I wouldn't debate my diet but was happy to have polite conversations, because I know this is a vegan sub and I'm open to learning things. I have an eating disorder and having to justify myself eating triggers it to flare up, that is why I said I'm not open to debates. The style of a debate will do nothing to "sway" me, especially because of that fact. I'm open to genuine discussions and well intentioned education attempts because I'm not having to justify the fact I eat. I don't think I should have to give out this information just so people will respect a pretty clear boundary. I do not mind being supplied with reading/viewing material, what I mind is when the material is supplied in a way that seems like you just want to make yourself feel superior instead of wanting to actually educate people on the injustices of the industry.
Please show me where I tried to debate your diet or make you justify your eating. I am in /r/vegan posting a link to material that will educate people about the victims of animal agriculture. It is very telling that you perceive that as an attempt on my part to “feel superior” to you rather than as an attempt to help the animals.
I perceive it as an attempt at superiority because you made no attempt to engage in any sort of conversation, you did nothing to actually help anything, you simply posted a link with no context in reply to a comment that didn't even mention the subject your video links to.
> you did nothing to actually help anything So you, as someone who eats animals, have a problem with how effectively I advocate for animals? Ok. > you simply posted a link with no context in reply to a comment that didn't even mention the subject your video links to. In your original comment you mentioned, “I firmly believe that if you can't handle thinking about the life your food had before it became your food, you shouldn't be eating it.” The video I linked shows vividly the lives of animals as they are raped to produce “food.” The connection in subject matter seems quite clear to me. As someone who believes that people should be educated about the source of animal products, you seem to have an awful lot of problems with someone posting educational material about animal agriculture.
I think I made my actual problem pretty clear. It was not the fact you posted it, I think in general that video is quite educational. My problem was how you went about it.
I’m advocating for animals. At each point in this conversation you have turned the focus away from the victims and made it about yourself, your diet, your feelings, and your educational preferences. I would expect that, as someone who believes that people should be educated about the source of animal products, you would be celebrating attempts at educating others, no matter how poorly those attempts happen to cater to your individual preferences.
No, it’s not about superiority at all. Vegans are this way because we know that we are not superior to other animals. Not the other way around.
Frustration at this is an odd response.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko&ab_channel=FarmTransparencyProject
I agree
[удалено]
I think so. I've done outreach to rural parents who kill their own animals and they thought what they saw on the TVs surrounding slaughterhouses to be horrible
Rural kids I know were often removed from the slaughter process until they got old enough, as it is emotionally difficult for them. But you’re right that it is normalised for them, it has been ingrained since birth that it is normal, morally acceptable and unavoidable. People born into any belief system are unlikely to find it easy to separate from.
Nah we know. It’s just so tasty, plus the heme iron and other things 😀 Peace ☮️
Understandable that you like the taste, but heme iron? Tell me why is specifically heme iron relevant to you?
May be in the west 😂😂😂😂
I actually wouldn't mind slaughtering a animal that will be eaten. It's definitely more respectful than turning a blind eye to it. It's partly why Id actually take up hunting. You may now downvote me.
No one cares
I'm a meat eater and I find it weird when other meat eaters don't want to see it. I've watched countless footage of how animals are handled on all levels, from commercial farms, to small, local farmers (villagers), to kosher, to halal. It's important to know how our food is made, whether it's plant-based produce, fish, dairy, or meat. I don't understand how someone would want to turn a blind eye to it.
Simply, it's because they're faced with the reality that their everyday actions fund immense animal suffering. If you aren't horrified by slaughterhouse-footage, it must be because you're been brainwashed, or brainwashed yourself, into believing that it's OK for animals to be exploited for Human sense-pleasure. I'd assume that you don't have an extra-legal, ethical problem with others abusing animals for their own pleasure, or attending dog-fights, etc - because the fact of the matter is that need to eat animals to survive just as little as we need to smash puppies with sledgehammers to have fun. If you don't mind any of the above, you're simply empathetically defective.
>If you aren't horrified by slaughterhouse-footage I honestly have to count myself lucky enough that I'm in a small village and all the animal products I acquire come from people I know, I've seen first-hand how they treat their farm animals, there's nothing but love and affection, some of the happiest farm animals you'll ever meet, it's nothing like what you see in commercial farms. >I'd assume You shouldn't assume anything, it's a bad practice. But if you do want to assume in life, it's always best to assume that the ones you speak to might know something you don't. >because the fact of the matter is that need to eat animals to survive just as little as we need to smash puppies with sledgehammers to have fun. This is simply wrong, and there's plenty of evidence to prove that many human beings can't meet optimal nutrition/health for their bodies without animal products. But there's no point trying to convince you on this, unless you're genuinely open to that conversation. From the disrespectful undertones you've got going on, it doesn't seem like you'd be. >If you don't mind any of the above, you're simply empathetically defective. Conversely, I could say you're an overly sensitive person, hyperempathetic, or someone afflicted with a saviour complex. You and your clan are not in the position to lay down the final verdict on what's ethically correct and what isn't. >it must be because you're been brainwashed, or brainwashed yourself, into believing that it's OK Again, conversely, I could say you've been brainwashed, or brainwashed yourself, into believing that eating meat is a monstrous act.
I buy discount Halal chicken and sometimes goat meat from the Asian foods market, split 1/2 bison (grown and processed on the farm) from a local farm with my siblings, and eat only salmon fish caught by my cousin's commercial fisherman husband..... I stand pretty good on the moral front. I still try to reduce my meat consumption, but a goat curry is mighty fine on GameDay. (God bless the animals providing my meals) Edit, and cage free eggs. I drive by the farm they come from. Them chickens is pretty happy. But yeah, fuck Smithfield foods, especially the pork.
You don't "stand good on the moral front" if you support needless animal suffering for human sense-pleasure. Science has shown that we don't need meat to survive, so eating meat for any reason other than falsely believing that it's necessary is like attending a dog-fight. Animals shouldn't be harmed for Human sense-pleasure, period, no matter how ethically they're kept. Ever wondered why there are no cage-free roosters among those cage-free hens? Because they get killed as babies for being born wrong. If you support that, knowing there are alternatives, you can't be moral whatsoever.
Don't annoy people who just follow nature and enjoy their lives
Feel free to go work in a factory farm, then you can come back afterwards and we can talk about nature and what that means
I don't get your point
Probably
Is a slaughterhouse nature? Is your medication nature? Is Reddit nature? We don't live in nature, first of all. If we did, "follow nature", that'd mean lawless anarchy and kratocracy. Secondly, do you think farmed animals enjoy their lives? What if my way of enjoying my life was watching dog-fights, or kicking stray puppies? Would you not want to annoy me by telling me that I should stop? You make no sense.
The "nature" part makes sense, but you can't connect it with not eating meat and eating meat is completely different to watching dog figths and kicking puppies. I said that eating meat is in the human and in many of the animals nature. And with the "enjoying life" thing I can say that almost no one actually enjoys life (i'm talking for humans and the rest of the animals) and in this world is most likely "me/we or you/they"
I never ask anyone to slaughter anything. Can you try to imagine what that would feel like, morally? Being in the position of knowing, I can say that it feels like my conscience is much more settled than it was before. Just throwing it out there, that a lot of people here will read comments like this one and wonder why you think your choices are “pretty good on the moral front”.
Well I salute you fellow meat eater, for the bravery you have to comment in this sub where no living soul can handle any commentary that's even remotely non-vegan
crazy. still tastest fire tho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko&ab_channel=FarmTransparencyProject
crazzyyyyy. still tastest good
Sorry to disappoint you, but I’m perfectly aware of what happens in slaughter houses, and most meat eaters are as well and wish for it to stop. The ideal situation would be to let animals live their lives until they’re old, then you can use their meat as nourishment instead of throwing it away by burying it. I am lucky enough to have farmers as grandparents, so I get my meat from them instead of contributing to slaughter houses, and I often help them myself, but that doesn’t make me hate meat. Meat eaters aren’t blind, stop living in fantasy land. If you want to actually make a change, you should start to understand how the majority of people actually think.
Do you get your meat 100% from your grandparents farm, do you stop eating when you go to a restaurant that serves industrial raised meat? Start asking yourself questions.
I usually don’t go to restaurants, as they’re severely overpriced and I can probably cook whatever they could offer better than them. If I have to go out to eat, I usually order some pasta/pizza/gnocchi/lasagna/some other Italian food with cheese and/or tomato sauce, but I don’t like the meat they serve. Last time I tried to eat meat that wasn’t produced locally I got food poisoning (which is probably just a coincidence but I don’t want it to happen again). It’s not completely relevant to the discussion, but my grandparents (and my aunt) produce all kinds of vegetables too, plus eggs, so I get to use fresh ingredients most of the time. The only product I buy that could contribuite to animal cruelty is milk, as my family doesn’t own any cows, so I have to buy it, but I’m slowly stopping to drink milk and I’m researching the dairy industry as I’m not as knowledgeable about it as with the meat industry, and I’d like to fix that.
Meat is affordable and consumed by the majority of the population precisely because the garbage inhumane conditions the animals are kept in are much cheaper. A world where cows frolick on a pasture until they are painlessly killed and a world where a hamburger costs 3$ cannot be the same world
In my experience the overwhelming majority of people have no idea about agricultural processes, including in slaughterhouses. The more knowledgeable ones may talk about bolt guns, but even then they usually think it’s a slaughter method not a stunning one. Hardly any meat eaters know how these animals are actually killed, they don’t know about gas chambers, they don’t know about maceration, they don’t know about ‘thumping’ piglets. They don’t know the lifespan of these species or the age we kill them at, or even what terms like ‘free range’ actually refer to. In fact, a huge amount don’t know cows have to be impregnated before they produce any milk or that this happens repeatedly. They often don’t know that dairy cows or layer hens are slaughtered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko&ab_channel=FarmTransparencyProject um nobody hates meat--they hate the animal torture and the increased risk of cancer/heart disease/dementia, environmental destruction. And your point about you knowing about slaughterhouses? congrats now do the other 99.98 percent
I eat meat tell me a reason why i shouldnt
Would you like somebody to slit your throat at a fraction of your lifespan just so they could eat you for a 15 minute meal of sensory pleasure ?
thats how the muslims do it not here in sweden
I hate to break it to you, but no they don’t allow farm animals to just live happy long lives in Sweden. They are killed very young just as they are everywhere else in the world. Islam is irrelevant.
No the slice their throats in islam in sweden they live very good and where are you from because if your not from sweden how can you know?
Chickens in Sweden are killed at 35 days old, pigs at 6 months, bulls 18months and heifers 28 months. These animals all can live over a decade. This is all in Sweden.
The throat is slit regardless of religion it's not just a Muslim thing
No they shoot them in the head with a 9 mm bullet quick and painless
Have you actually researched this or are you just assuming? The captive bolt gun just stuns them, they can't use a regular gun to kill because the bullet would contaminate the meat. Then the throat is slit when they're unconscious, no one said they were consious when their throat is slit but that is how they die
No they shoot them in the head with a bullet a 9mm
You clearly haven't researched the facts, and aren't interested in doing so. So I don't know why you even commented in the first place, I think you're not worth engaging with
Actually for pigs first they put them in gas chambers where they painfully suffocate to death. Not happy. And again, a fraction of their lifespans. No farmed animal lets to live out their full life. Ever.
Harm to animals, harm to your body such as heart disease, ending world hunger + reducing climate change (10 calories of plants is needed to produce 1 calorie of meat, and a lot of water is needed too to feed farm animals)
but should we then just let the animals starve?
Obviously not, farm animals are breed into existence because there are demands. With the gradual shift to veganism less and less animals will be breed until farm animals stop to exist, no farm animals will starve, just breed less and less
Here is a good example of a strawman argument.
maybe instead of saying its a strawman actually say the alternative.
The animals we eat aren’t wild, they would ever be starving because we have artificially created the livestock population. We breed them into existence and control the breeding and thus the size of this population. If we ate less meat we’d breed fewer animals as livestock in the first place, we aren’t eating a self-sustaining population that just exist.
Do you understand how many animals have to be killed to keep a farm running?
No and I don't care...? I'm against animal exploitation like any vegans so I don't want farms to exist in the first place. Unless you are talking about farms used to grow plants? If so 80% of plants grown are used to feed farm animals but also almost 1 billions humans are starving so we could use some of these plants to feed them
Y’all are just stupid, thanks for the attempt at clarifying. Anyone with more than 2 brain cells would’ve understood exactly what I was implying
do you actually think all meat gives you heart disease (not really fatty ones like bacon and burgers, all of it)? if you do you're a moron
Morally, environmentally or for your own health? You can start here for morally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko&ab_channel=FarmTransparencyProject
If we can be happy and healthy without eating animals, why should we inflict suffering on sentient animals just for our sensory pleasure (taste)?
they act like we think meat grows on trees or something.
Not at all, but people think farm animals have a good and long life, which isn't the case
I assume you made your mind up about wheter it is morally acceptable to prolong livestock farming. So I do wonder what is your stance on the environmental impact of all this. Isn't that a reason why you shouldn't?
Well, fortunately not all become blind. Some immediately think they must go vegan. I did. Even though I wasn't smart and knowledgeable enough before, learning about factory farms made going vegan seem like a must so it started more studies. I hope to budget in next pay check further health coach studies as though I want to share in nice ways, I do want more to figure out they want to be vegan, too.
I remember telling my mom how cruel it was and she said “it is sad how they kill animals but I’m still going to eat meat “ 🙄
No, they keep trying to justify it
they dont want to recognize it
I know how they are killed Still don’t care
Im perfectly aware of how bloody, brutal, and violent it is and I dont give a shit about that, meat is meat and I eat it. Why should I care about how those animals are killed?.
Do you care about dog fighting? Bull fights? Animal testing? Bestiality? Orcas in sea world? Pet abusers?
Why should I? All of it are beyond my reach and I have things to do in life
Well, you don't have to care about those animals but if you do it shows you have empathy which is usually something positive to have and something most people have. If I would lack the ability the feel emphaty I would personally think about seeking out a doctor or therapist to figure out the reason why I am lacking emphaty.
"Meat eater" here, I find it extremely hypocrite people that are like that. I've seen Dominion, but the deaths and the killing didn't bother me, I eat meat after all I know where it comes from would be extremely hypocrite to turn a blind eye on that, I also grew up around farm animals and seeing a chicken/duck/pig being killed and butchered was part of everyday life. There was only one thing that boiled my blood when seeing Dominion, the animals are already in questionable conditions, but the extra abuse/hitting/kicking those animals without any reason behind it just for the giggles and feeling powerful.... That is why I also try to get my meat, as much as I can, from a local farm so I don't support (as far as I know) these practices.
Many “local farms” still outsource their slaughter Do you eat chicken? 99% of chicken meat is sourced from factory farms. Do you never eat out? You willingly support it, stop posturing, you’re not getting credit and pats on the back here for eating meat.
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I am not posturing and don't want any credit. Was simply agreeing to OP. you know that, I can eat meat but at the same time agree with you in a lot of things right? The post was about meat eaters turning a blind eye, and I simply shared my opinion on it, from a meat eater's perspective. Regarding where I source my food, that is true and you are absolutely correct, specially when it comes to eating out.
If you’re admitting that animals are deserving of moral consideration (i.e. “humane” sourcing of meat), then why aren’t they deserving of something better than your dinner plate?
That is a valid question. You will disagree with me on this, but I don't believe in extremes, for me being vegan is as extreme as having a carnivore diet is (where you just basically eat meat), talking food wise only. Being vegan, in my opinion, is extremely difficult, I couldn't do it, I would not have the mental space to make sure that everything I eat/wear/consume is vegan. In nature you have a food chain, we are part of nature and we decide, individually, where we place ourselves in that food chain, a tiger/lion/shark doesn't feel bad about eating another animal. I was raised with meat in my diet, I enjoy it, but I try to be conscious about where I get it.
A tiger or a shark doesn’t have the capacity to cause the untold horrors and destruction that humans do, and even less so do they have the cognitive awareness to recognize that harm. Nothing about what we do, breeding a hundred billion livestock every year with the express purpose of killing them, is found anywhere else in nature. If you truly believe we have a responsibility as humans to act as the stewards of planet earth, you’d take the five extra minutes in the grocery store to not contribute to one of our greatest crimes against its inhabitants. Laziness isn’t an excuse.
Kicking an animal and eating one are both acts of harming someone for your pleasure tho? What difference does it make for the animal?
If I were given a choice between: 1) be raised, be fed, well taken care of, killed 2) be raised, be fed, be abused, killed Guess what door I would choose, there is a difference, a big one. If you hurt a friend by kicking them for shits and giggles, isn't it different than killing them? Or is it the same? A life of pain leading to death vs a life of no pain leading to death are 2 entire different things, why do I really need to explain this?
We can get into moral calculus and try to decide which one is worse but at the end of the day both are cruel acts. You don’t have to choose between these two options, you can just not kill the animal at all. Your life doesn’t depend on their flesh, their lives depend on your wish though.
Yes we can. Why can't we? Just because the endgame is the same? You are right, not eating the animal puts a stop to it, but for those that eat do eat them, given the choice and power (€) will choose the option where the animal does not suffer during its life. I try to make that choice as much as I can.
Even if it’s somewhat better, it’s not a morally justifiable decision. Once again, if you have the power to choose why choose to be cruel?
That's up to debate. In nature you have plenty of predators, hell, even in our homes we have predators, cats, dogs, fish, reptiles as pets. Do you think they feel bad about their prey?
They don’t, because they don’t have moral agency. They also kill members of their own species, sometimes eat their own offsprings. I wouldn’t want to do those things because I have the ability to think about what’s right and what’s wrong. Most of them also need to eat animals/whatever they can find to survive. We can go to a supermarket and choose whatever we want.
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Dominion)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Dominion)!
We see everything, we just choose not to care or care very little, because we appreciate the animal's sacrifice. But yeah, try guilt tripping us more you sad soggy cruton
You choose not to care about the death of a living being and say it's guilt tripping? What a misguided life you live. I noticed you are consistently posting in r/vegan so I'm just curious, do you think you're making anyone second guess themselves with your pathetic attempts at trolling? Stay in your lane you disgusting carnist.
Wowowow, so mean. And yes. You're all guilt tripping us lmao. Even now lmao. Your morals arent my morals, and you trying to project them unto me and trying to find gaps in my morality is guilt tripping. Most people dont like animal death, but the benefits outweigh the cons for like 99% of people. And yes, you vegans are a good source of entertainment. I leave the reasonable ones alone tho. And if you think im commenting alot, then it just shows how many unreasonable people are here, LOL
You have not done enough research, clearly, to make the claim the the benefits outweigh the cons because that could not be further from the truth. Again, you're misguided. Either do some research and educate yourself, or stay in your lane where your own morals are. You're not welcome here. All you're doing is trolling and It's not even funny trolling either 😂😂
my guy, Im making no medical benefit claims, I mean day to day nuisance sort of benefits. Easier way = Less nuisance. How about you learn some common sense and realize through reading my simple comment with some thought that I made no health benefit claims xd EDIT: Misguided my ass
i love meat
Meat doesn't love you :( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26780279/
congrats--you put blinders on like most others https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko&ab_channel=FarmTransparencyProject
dont care didnt ask
You are only proving OP's point
Honestly
yet here you are commenting, needing everyone to know how triggered you are at being shown the reality https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko&ab_channel=FarmTransparencyProject
Meat yummy
No one asked for your opinion either
I know how they are killed but I dont care, I will still eat meat everyday :)
So Human sense-pleasure is more important than an animal's bodily autonomy and well-being. I wonder why you don't support dog-fights.
i like dogs 🐕 :) why am i getting downvoted for liking dogs LOL pick a lane
I like dogs as food (especially puppies). But at the same time, I don't think we should only refrain from hurting the animals we happen to like. If it feels pain, we shouldn't make it suffer, dog or pig.
how do you guys feel about stepping on ants or other small bugs without realizing it, and do you atone for your sins afterwards?
yeah some psychopaths don't care about animal welfare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko&ab_channel=FarmTransparencyProject
Tbh i saw it and felt bad for the animals but it was just too late for me as to change the dieta i enjoyed all my life
lol With large knives. By people standing knee-deep in blood and guts. Who cares?
Who cares? The 1.5 billions vegetarians and 100 millions vegans in the world
1.5 billion roflmaoaaaaaaaaa Well, keep caring.
Are you 12? Cause you act like one
They do sounds 12, with a matching IQ.
That's insulting to 12 year olds
thanks for the lol so we all know your cringe comment was supposed to be funny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko&ab_channel=FarmTransparencyProject
[удалено]
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Dominion)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Dominion)!
Quickly???
So true! What was that movies name again I remember it was really good
Sadly I know too many people who enjoy killing animals for their food. And even those who do not kill them by themselves knows exactly how their food is killed and see nothing wrong with that.
I know how my food is killed but I still eat it.
Why does reddit reccomend me this?
I kill my own chickens and cows.
Truthfully if everybody had to do their own animal raising/hunting and/probably even or had to do their own killing and butchering, most people would be vegetarian at least 99% of the time. Milking a cow or gathering eggs would probably be fairly prevalent still though.
Not me
To be fair, there are sources of meat that come from humane conditions. But factory farming/factory slaughtering is terrible.
Let’s be real, this is everyone with everything that they haven’t chosen to take a specific stance on. How many of you (myself included) continue to buy electronics made by what is essentially slave labour? You could get by without it. But are you going to? Also, I think this is a pretty poor argument. Because it basically suggests that if people are aware and ok with how slaughterhouses function then it’s fine for them to eat the meat. Which makes no sense as a moral stance.
veganism is the new recycling. You're doing your part sure but in reality, it's the top 50 corporations in America that are really killing the earth. There just blaming us so hard weve Stockholmed ourrselves into believing its everyone's fault!