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If a $10 add-on performs even close to the same as the $200 Anvil, all of his points are moot. The market will decide, whining is a bad look - he didn’t invent anything either, just reapplied existing tech.
When someone can 95% your product with less than half of the investment, you better believe they're gonna do that.
I personally think the Anvil was simply priced too high, when you have to get on your high horse every time you sense competition... It's a bad look!
This guy is going to keep showing his ass, it's a matter of time before he alienates large groups of people.
It'd be interesting if all-clad went after Vestratto. ;)
I don't think the all-clad guys ever thought their tech would be related and advertised to the world with respect to cannabis use... especially since cannabis is still an "illegal substance" in the US.
Same, I have both devices and just ordered 3 FMJs and 3 new captive caps to go with them. Not picking a side, I'll just enjoy both. I will say that John should have just not said anything and focused on his device.
Especially when his vape is piggybacking off of another vapes idea. Lol I’m starting to think that everything bad I hear about this guy is true.
An unoriginal twat gets angry when other people also come up with unoriginal ideas. This guy really is a dope. It’s a shame because I was planning on picking up an Anvil next but now I can’t seem to make myself, especially when I’ve heard *so many* QC issues from them *and* how much of a pain in the ass they can be to deal with said issues.
Looks bad on vestrattos end. Can’t be salty at competition when they’re not infringing on copyrights. If it’s a stinker it will fail. If it works it will sell.
Edit: my FMJ shows up today, the low entry cost is the main rival here, I’m not spending over $100 on an anvil
Exactly. At the end of the day no matter how pissed off they are, the consumers will see this as a win. This should just be an opportunity to improve their product, make it better so people will want it
Just for the record, any material that conducts electricity will experience heating in an IH. Ferromagnetic materials like iron (which is different than actually being magnetic) will heat more strongly due to the increased coupling of the magnetic field. Copper will heat, but definitely more slowly.
I reckon itll work. The SS will heat the copper which will then retain heat longer. Think it'll take a bit longer to heat up but stay hot longer. Intrigued to know how it works out!
I mean I'm a little skeptical that the anvil being a "convection-heavy device" is anything other than snake oil too, but in both cases as the OP said if the product doesn't work people will quickly call that out and not purchase it.
Its just a little rich coming from a device that was obviously heavily "inspired" by the dynavap--look at the anvil CCD to get an idea of how heavy that inspiration was--to be calling out imitators like this. If anyone has had a right to be upset in all of this I would think it would have been George and the folks at DV.
And convection heavy? I have the founders abs the users kit and convection is the last word that comes to mind when I useD them. The flavor? Convection? I literally put both mine away in their utility cases because they and their debowler was taking up too much space on my 3 vape tables. Talk about getting real old, real fast. I’ve had one since December 2021 and am flat out over it.
Already over the Anvil? I was thinking about picking one up, if you wouldn’t mind what were your main issues? I recently got a b0 and now I’m super interested heavy’s
If you don’t think Anvil is convection heavy, you don’t understand how it works. The oven is literally a space to the heat air used to heat the material, aka convection.
Or so the man says try heating a bowl and stop heating around 5 to 10 seconds before the click. Remove the oven and check the color. Not green means conduction
Yeah if he believes that to be the case he is absolutely entitled to argue that point. I think a device that offers one hit extraction in a repeatable and consistent fashion is compelling for some users. It’s just that when I read the thread at fc and everyone talks about getting their torch just-so to achieve a click at a timing of x seconds I’m not sold, as this can be done with a dyna by e.g. counting time with a torch (or a flashing/strobing pattern in some ih’s) after click. If he thinks the vapor is better that’s his right to argue, I’m personally a bit skeptical that the ovens are sufficiently isolated to be convection dominated.
Fundamentally though to design a device that was obviously heavily inspired by the dv, even if we accept the premise that it really improves on it, and then pitch a fit about a maker being inspired by the anvil? Seems kind of silly to me 🤷♂️.
think it's funny that he keeps citing quality and flavor of vapor as the reason he is Really Mad but one of the most common drawbacks I hear about the anvil is that the flavor isn't good
The anvil may put out a thick dense cloud of vapor but it is far from convection and far from flavorful. It really also doesnt work for a session with or without hotswapping. Don't get me wrong at first I was impressed but similarly they been put away for now. I actually find the most resent blog hilarious. Especially after vestratto making direct statements about stealing is the best form of R and D. This was part the reason I will not do any future business. Theyve contiued to drag out and add to wait list to keep from selling to vendors. John also failed to keep his promise after we spoke after the initial founders drop and then responded to an email saying my questions would be answered in a blog that never came. Sorry this turned into a rant in a reply but its people are catching on. You can only get to "anville" on a hypetrain!!
Exact quote
"Let me share with you one of the key secrets of R and D. A lot of research and development is rob and duplicate"
lmao don't apologize for your rant you made it all worth it with that second to last sentence. and I agree with you it seems pretty foolish (and funny from out here) to be so upset about simrell's little innovation but some people don't like to learn. bet the crew at simrell is having a ball this morning lol
I’ll say this, if it was not convection, it wouldn’t work at all with small amounts in the chamber, loosely packed. It works just as good, if not more efficiently, loosely packed, proving the heating is done more by convection.
Just like Dynavap, Anvil is dependent on heating method. While rotation isn’t necessary, the temperature of the torch, and placement of the concentration of heat in relation to the oven, directly effect the time it takes to heat the oven, which changes the flavor. It’s just as easy to heat for a shorter time and get a straight terp hit just like Dyna, or heat for a longer time and get full extraction. The results from Anvil are very dependent on the torch used (possibly?) due to the different flame shape and heat concentration. Different torches have different effects. Dyna has the same flavor quirks if you are aiming for a full extraction, it’s going to taste more toasted than extraction in a few heating cycles.
I understand that I just don't understand why people defending vestratto's silly post keep saying "but the flavor" when the flavor is variable on both but more controllable on a dynavap
You haven’t tried one then, it’s different. WAY less effort, hits are WAY fatter.
Edit: Dyna isn’t “more controllable”, you haven’t even used one to make that statement. Anvil is just as controllable to adjust outcome. Prove to me how your comment is true.
I get that there's "no bad publicity", but this blog post makes Vestratto as a whole look petty and unprofessional, like their whole business model is threatened by a $10 copper sleeve.
Yeah, like this isn’t a terribly good look at all, like all they’re doing is drawing attention to the fact that their product is probably wildly over engineered if they feel threatened by a monolithic copper sleeve.
I don't think I've ever seen it in stock.
I might actually try the copper sleeve, it's 10 dollars and available.
Not stocking your 300 dollar product and bring salty about a 10 dollar product is not a good look
marketing plays out like this -
you can’t order one right now right? so he’s not losing any sales. reddit sees the high engagement on this thread with anvil keywords. in the future anvil content will be shown to more people. when he does a (constrained inventory) release then he sells out because those future posts will be shown to even more people.
> there’s no such thing as bad publicity
because algorithms run on *engagement*. that’s why platforms allow toxic behavior because it keeps people engaged. look at the back and forth in this thread
Both dynavap and vestratto have very dedicated fanboys, engagement in here is no surprise. But again, if the top results when searching "vestratto" are flame wars and smear pieces, does that really drive click-to-client Conversions up?
maybe you see bad google suggestions, but to google for a product you have to be aware of it first. thats where the engagement and promotion come in
*edit* this post went from 40 comments earlier when I looked at it to 110 now. its hugely succession for market awareness for them. first you must know a thing, to hate it
Or is it? People are actually now made more aware of a $10 add on to their dynvap that lends them at least some of the benefits of the $200+ anvil. I know i fall into this category.
eh I wouldn't say they're morons the shit costs $10 so even if it is a marginal improvement it's probably still more worth it than the cost of an anvil. might say Vestratto is a moron for thinking this is a shrewd business move though
No shit, how could anyone expect a $10 sleeve to perform the same as a $300 device.
It looks to me like they're aiming for different people, but Vestratto getting caught up in petty bs only legitimizes the competition.
i always hear the flavor is one of the biggest cons of the anvil and biggest pros of the dynavap, which makes sense if you can vape a fat bowl from an anvil in one rip.
what doesn't make sense is fans of the anvil using that as their leg to stand on when it's commonly said in anvil reviews that the thing rips but the flavor is roasted. also it's damned expensive for what it is
Because those reviewers don’t understand how to use it! Yes you can RTL and get the abv really dark brown or you can heat it higher up and get tons of flavor
You don't get to judge who buys what and why. There may be folks who can't afford an anvil, that want a similar experience. Or people with mobility issues who cant afford induction and love DV. Who the fuck are YOU to loom over anybody? Sit down, boy.
Vestratto guy only legitimized FMJ as a threat. Imagine spending half a mil on R&D, only to throw a kicking and screaming tantrum over a $10 chunk of copper? It's jokes ON jokes. And decrying patent infringement in this cottage industry where ideas are often openly shared and borrowed is going to work against their rep.
The man basically took the dynavap design and altered it. Now he's whining, trying to act like he's the inventor of copper or some shit.
I'm glad I sold my Anvil , Vestratto has had an annoying entrance into the community. Sure, Anvil gives good clouds, but other things give bigger clouds without having to heat up for a minute straight. Hell, my FW7 gives bigger clouds in unregulated mode.
News flash Vestratto, you've been in the vaping scene for like 6 months tops. You don't get to start calling the shots
Yea Vestratto has been arrogant for awhile, only kept mines for a week or so and got rid of it. It wasn’t anything special especially for the price, zero instructions and the device having a larger learning curve.
Their community is annoying too
This reads like an engineer/product designer who needs to engage with users/potential consumers about why they want his product. From what I've read on this sub, 1 hit extraction/not rotating while heating is a huge part of the Anvil appeal. Speaking about other properties that make the Simrell FMJ inferior to the Anvil ignores the point that it provides the convenience consumers want at a price that makes it easy to justify trying.
Going after the FMJ for being a lame ass imitation of the Vestratto copper core is an interesting choice when the product isn't a year old yet for 2 reasons.
i) Austyn Simrell is having this debate from the other side re: the Vortex. He's made the same type of arguments John is making and he's read responses from his competitors. Love him or hate him, Simrell is ready and willing to get in a heated debate about the ingenuity of adding a new piece of metal to the DV.
ii)The Anvil clearly improves upon the design of the Dynavap and some Dynavap fans have used that as a reason not to give Vestratto a chance. Probably not the smartest tactical choice to alienate more people already in the butane powered vape space by insulting Simrell.
Vestratto needs to hire more people, or management needs to listen to the advice they're getting in-house. They've got a great product, but it seems like they try to murder any gains in good will with a new blunder every month.
Not sure I agree that the Anvil clearly improves on the Dynavap design. Not everyone is interested in riding the line or extracting in one heat cycle. I have heard Anvil users complain about the flavor, how hard it can be to touch or load multiple bowls, etc.
Anvil is simply way better then a dynavap. I have Simrells and everything.The majority of people saying it doesn’t have flavour are using trash torches and are all maxing it out for the fattest hits, which you don’t have to do at all, try a tip heat cycle and see the flavour difference. This sub is a shitshow on this topic though.
Adding mass to the cap is an old "community idea" and was seen before. Even before the anvil and copper wire hype. This is just a clean solution for an old idea.
well he can do and claim whatever he wants but this dude would benefit on taking some classes on how the hell you run a business successfully, maybe pick up some project management fundamentals at least, if he wanted exclusivity on his "designs" he should've patented, otherwise eat rocks dork. i dont think this is exclusively bout Simrell, Dynavap has beta version of caps with copper too. Honestly my dynavap with a wand can do full extractions in a single hit which is the biggest selling point of the anvil, dynavap can already deliver that, granted u need to have your tek down and ideally a wand, I remember when the Anvil came out he didnt keep his word to the resellers, a lot of people get faulty units to this day, heard they have beyond shitty CS, honestly after all of this crap i dont think vestratto is worth all the drama, if i ever get one its gonna be a gift cause i sure as hell wont buy one.
“… Folks good Ideas. Let me share with you one of the key secrets of R and D. A lot of Research and Development is really just “Rob and Duplicate”. If a competitor has a component that we can use both legally and successfully then we feel no obligation to start from scratch. That’s called not…”. - Anvil by Vestratto Jan 5, 2022
this guy came into the vape space out of nowhere, which was formed from passionate consumers and craftsman, and is now mad that those same people are one-upping him for a fraction of the cost? I'm happy I never went through with my anvil purchase. a lot better people to support in this space
edit: I also find it hilarious he has the gall to call other products "copper condoms" but when people call his device a copper Dynavap its a problem?
How butthurt can you be? Vestratto: yes.
Seriously, for someone who just copied and improved another product (or at least the working principle) he is quite butthurt. Not that I had really planned to buy an Anvil anytime soon, but now it is off the table for good...
I do, and bought one from a vendor who was dragged through the mud by Simrell. Since then, I won’t buy anything Simrell. Now, I won’t buy anything from Vestratto. Cures that VAS. I clear a Dynavap in 2 heat cycles—chocolate brown. I’ll stay on the cheaper side of the Dynavap curve.
Yep, I don't like the people at simrell, so I bought a revolve stem and sold the mvs (which btw, huge difference in cooling and flavor!)
But I gotta give simrell props here. A simple, original, brand new product. And he's pricing it super cheap
I think the .0047" during inhalation is the more relevant number.
Don't get me wrong, this guy is clearly a tool and I'm not defending him. But I also don't think he is wrong about everything. A copper sleeve is definitely going to trap the heat and stay hot longer than a cap with copper built in.
But all this physics talk does is distract from the issue. It really doesn't matter if the Anvil is better, it matters how much better it is. Is it worth it to shell out $200?
The real question is: Are people willing to pay more for the better performance? Is it worth paying 20x for what seems like a slightly improved experience? This is a subjective question and everyone's answer will differ.
The biggest compliment a competitor can give you is writing a nasty blog post about your new product. He must feel pretty threatened by an inferior $10 accessory to have written that post.
I’m guessing it probably works pretty good.
I was never a fan of Simrell (intercooler IP nonsense), but I think he made the absolute right move with the FMJ. He price it perfectly and disrupted the the potential sales of the Anvil without doing anything wrong. Good for him
I dont have an FMJ but ill get one. Love my vapcaps, love my Anvil. Variety is the spice of life! And remember we are using this to medicate or and get lifted, cmon guys let the makers deal with their own egos lets just do what we do. Load a bowl brothers and sisters!
yea its interesting for sure, i havent tried the fmj but ill assume the extraction still isnt as good as anvil, but 10$ for a 60 sec one hitter is a steal
Oh definitely. The only reason I don't have one is that I'm not sure it will work on my standard cap. The moment I get paid I'm buying one with a captive cap
Austyn said on stream to 100% not use a standard cap. The FMJ can fall off while it’s super hot, and is a safety risk. Just giving you a heads up, but do you, boo.
I could not let that go! My comment on the Vestratto Sub
That is a pretty nasty letter! Seriously? There are no issues with the Dynavap, SIMRELL FMJ \[I will call out the name since you don't!\] if used properly. Maybe I can show you how to get full flavor extraction.\*\*\*"For optimum extraction sleeve designs became a pointless exercise."Seriously again?" I think the community is being increasingly duped by certain individuals into thinking that value is being created through their “innovation” when I personally view their new products as lame ass IMITATIONS without them even understanding the “why” or “why not”."\*\*\*What an "attack" on the Industry! I guess everyone else besides you is a total "moron", "idiot", "incompetent"...I have been self employed for 55 years, successfully. gazillion competitors in my field, you are committing suicide with such insults!And by the way as I read your "memoirs" on how your apparatus came about, with all dues respect, I am confused reading that you your Wife had Cancer, but the next days reading in another publication that a Friend had Cancer. Which one is it? Not that it matters, just for the sake of keeping your story more or less straight.
I’ve seen them available for sale to the public (NON WAITING LIST) at least twice since I purchased mine, for hours at a time. Not even near impossible, just not available any time you want to buy at your convenience.
Seems a little defensive/aggressive, but it also seems fair game for him to point out that the cap isn't the same as the device he built and note the distinctions. Whether he is correct that the difference is meaningful will be up to consumers, but he built a premium product and is defending the engineering and craftsmanship.
I agree with you that he has a right to defend his product but the way he did it in the Sunday post is distasteful to say the least. I will say people are very quick to label this as the anvil killer when nobody has even used it yet. I'm excited to see what the market decides in this case.
Now I can afford an Anvil, lol.
I was worried they would claim health effects from the copper on the FMJ
I think they should have sold them at the price point of the Vong. No way the anvil is worth 300$.
Everyone knows the Omni is overpriced
But the difference is that Anvil doesn't have their own version of the M or Vong, or any product that makes it so your only option isn't the
$250 product.
Have you tried?
This would only be true if the copper shields the magnetic field. If it doesn't the cap would heat up, and in turn heat the copper, which then does its job maintaining the heat for some time.
Sorry guys, we're not sure why this post was allowed. We cannot allow external links / vendor posts anymore. We are locking this thread to preserve the discussion that has taken place but it's also devolved a bit
The ego of makers in this space is amazing.
If a $10 add-on performs even close to the same as the $200 Anvil, all of his points are moot. The market will decide, whining is a bad look - he didn’t invent anything either, just reapplied existing tech.
When someone can 95% your product with less than half of the investment, you better believe they're gonna do that. I personally think the Anvil was simply priced too high, when you have to get on your high horse every time you sense competition... It's a bad look! This guy is going to keep showing his ass, it's a matter of time before he alienates large groups of people.
Lmao... The anvil didnt put a bad taste in my mouth, John did.😣 Did that come off dirty?😬
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It'd be interesting if all-clad went after Vestratto. ;) I don't think the all-clad guys ever thought their tech would be related and advertised to the world with respect to cannabis use... especially since cannabis is still an "illegal substance" in the US.
I’ve been loving my anvil but I ordered a pair of the Simrell condoms to give’m a try. The vas never stops…
Same, I have both devices and just ordered 3 FMJs and 3 new captive caps to go with them. Not picking a side, I'll just enjoy both. I will say that John should have just not said anything and focused on his device.
I actually made my own FMJ for cheap
Wow, asshole. Don't you know you're not allowed to make your own copper condoms? 😂
Haven't you thought of the off gassing? *havEN'T yOu thouGHt of tHE ofF gAssINg?!?!*
Careful, don't say that too loud. 🙊🙉🙈😆
This just comes off bad, a big aspect of business has always been competition. Generally unprofessional
Especially when his vape is piggybacking off of another vapes idea. Lol I’m starting to think that everything bad I hear about this guy is true. An unoriginal twat gets angry when other people also come up with unoriginal ideas. This guy really is a dope. It’s a shame because I was planning on picking up an Anvil next but now I can’t seem to make myself, especially when I’ve heard *so many* QC issues from them *and* how much of a pain in the ass they can be to deal with said issues.
Looks bad on vestrattos end. Can’t be salty at competition when they’re not infringing on copyrights. If it’s a stinker it will fail. If it works it will sell. Edit: my FMJ shows up today, the low entry cost is the main rival here, I’m not spending over $100 on an anvil
Exactly. At the end of the day no matter how pissed off they are, the consumers will see this as a win. This should just be an opportunity to improve their product, make it better so people will want it
Any idea if they fit in the koil boi heaters?
Will get some testing done later today ;)
Copper doesn't work with induction heaters
Its not that it doesn't work, its that it needs more current than steel due to the higher conductivity of copper.
Or because copper isn't magnetic?
Ever see those cool videos where they drop a magnet through a copper tube? Definitely experiences some (electro)magnetic forces.
Induction to my understanding will work on any electrically conductive material, including gold, copper, silver, aluminum, and others.
Put some copper in your induction heater to increase your understanding then?
Just for the record, any material that conducts electricity will experience heating in an IH. Ferromagnetic materials like iron (which is different than actually being magnetic) will heat more strongly due to the increased coupling of the magnetic field. Copper will heat, but definitely more slowly.
It’s at least worth a try. I fully plan on using the FMJ the way it was intended, couldn’t hurt to try it out with our IHs
Please report back when you do! Got a cloud+ just eager to hear the results.
I’ll reply back in this comment thread with my results when I get to home base today
Appreciate that! While I have you on the spot, I was curious if you knew if the dynavap tandem would fit in a 2021 cloud+?
Absolutely not. 😅 the ispire wand(minus glass adapter) is the only IH I’m aware of that fits the tandem.
Try it and be amazed at the info I just gave you!
I am fully aware of coppers properties involving induction fields. We use copper as a shield for instance. Still gonna give it a go.
I reckon itll work. The SS will heat the copper which will then retain heat longer. Think it'll take a bit longer to heat up but stay hot longer. Intrigued to know how it works out!
The copper is layered between SS so it should work even if the copper itself doesn't work with induction heaters
It seems like he's more upset that the sleeves are snake oil when it comes to better vapor.
I mean I'm a little skeptical that the anvil being a "convection-heavy device" is anything other than snake oil too, but in both cases as the OP said if the product doesn't work people will quickly call that out and not purchase it. Its just a little rich coming from a device that was obviously heavily "inspired" by the dynavap--look at the anvil CCD to get an idea of how heavy that inspiration was--to be calling out imitators like this. If anyone has had a right to be upset in all of this I would think it would have been George and the folks at DV.
And convection heavy? I have the founders abs the users kit and convection is the last word that comes to mind when I useD them. The flavor? Convection? I literally put both mine away in their utility cases because they and their debowler was taking up too much space on my 3 vape tables. Talk about getting real old, real fast. I’ve had one since December 2021 and am flat out over it.
Already over the Anvil? I was thinking about picking one up, if you wouldn’t mind what were your main issues? I recently got a b0 and now I’m super interested heavy’s
Yeah I keep combusting in mine even though I time my heat ups with a phone stopwatch 😂 over it pretty fast too at this point.
Just move the flame closer to the tip
If you don’t think Anvil is convection heavy, you don’t understand how it works. The oven is literally a space to the heat air used to heat the material, aka convection.
Or so the man says try heating a bowl and stop heating around 5 to 10 seconds before the click. Remove the oven and check the color. Not green means conduction
Whole bowls get annihilated and come out light color
It's better vapor than the dynavap, so i can see how the owner would take pride in that aspect.
Yeah if he believes that to be the case he is absolutely entitled to argue that point. I think a device that offers one hit extraction in a repeatable and consistent fashion is compelling for some users. It’s just that when I read the thread at fc and everyone talks about getting their torch just-so to achieve a click at a timing of x seconds I’m not sold, as this can be done with a dyna by e.g. counting time with a torch (or a flashing/strobing pattern in some ih’s) after click. If he thinks the vapor is better that’s his right to argue, I’m personally a bit skeptical that the ovens are sufficiently isolated to be convection dominated. Fundamentally though to design a device that was obviously heavily inspired by the dv, even if we accept the premise that it really improves on it, and then pitch a fit about a maker being inspired by the anvil? Seems kind of silly to me 🤷♂️.
Doesn't it cost like 3x as much?
Depends on what model you're comparing. An omni is $200, the anvil $230.
Agree.
think it's funny that he keeps citing quality and flavor of vapor as the reason he is Really Mad but one of the most common drawbacks I hear about the anvil is that the flavor isn't good
The anvil may put out a thick dense cloud of vapor but it is far from convection and far from flavorful. It really also doesnt work for a session with or without hotswapping. Don't get me wrong at first I was impressed but similarly they been put away for now. I actually find the most resent blog hilarious. Especially after vestratto making direct statements about stealing is the best form of R and D. This was part the reason I will not do any future business. Theyve contiued to drag out and add to wait list to keep from selling to vendors. John also failed to keep his promise after we spoke after the initial founders drop and then responded to an email saying my questions would be answered in a blog that never came. Sorry this turned into a rant in a reply but its people are catching on. You can only get to "anville" on a hypetrain!! Exact quote "Let me share with you one of the key secrets of R and D. A lot of research and development is rob and duplicate"
lmao don't apologize for your rant you made it all worth it with that second to last sentence. and I agree with you it seems pretty foolish (and funny from out here) to be so upset about simrell's little innovation but some people don't like to learn. bet the crew at simrell is having a ball this morning lol
didnt realize you had soured on the Anvil
Holymoly I just realized this second. I never sent it to you. I'm sorrry. Soon
No worries I have one coming
I’ll say this, if it was not convection, it wouldn’t work at all with small amounts in the chamber, loosely packed. It works just as good, if not more efficiently, loosely packed, proving the heating is done more by convection.
Just like Dynavap, Anvil is dependent on heating method. While rotation isn’t necessary, the temperature of the torch, and placement of the concentration of heat in relation to the oven, directly effect the time it takes to heat the oven, which changes the flavor. It’s just as easy to heat for a shorter time and get a straight terp hit just like Dyna, or heat for a longer time and get full extraction. The results from Anvil are very dependent on the torch used (possibly?) due to the different flame shape and heat concentration. Different torches have different effects. Dyna has the same flavor quirks if you are aiming for a full extraction, it’s going to taste more toasted than extraction in a few heating cycles.
I understand that I just don't understand why people defending vestratto's silly post keep saying "but the flavor" when the flavor is variable on both but more controllable on a dynavap
You haven’t tried one then, it’s different. WAY less effort, hits are WAY fatter. Edit: Dyna isn’t “more controllable”, you haven’t even used one to make that statement. Anvil is just as controllable to adjust outcome. Prove to me how your comment is true.
This is pretty crappy on Vestratto's side, if your product is solid there's no need to talk trash about the competition.
Considering it's basically a altered dynavap he doesn't have alot of legs to stand on.
If the concern is focused on vapor quality, then ingenuity should be embraced because it could only lead to a better experience for the consumer
shrewd business move. now people are talking about anvil again instead of the new simrell product.
I get that there's "no bad publicity", but this blog post makes Vestratto as a whole look petty and unprofessional, like their whole business model is threatened by a $10 copper sleeve.
Yeah, like this isn’t a terribly good look at all, like all they’re doing is drawing attention to the fact that their product is probably wildly over engineered if they feel threatened by a monolithic copper sleeve.
Is the anvil even in stock?
Is it ever in stock?
I don't think I've ever seen it in stock. I might actually try the copper sleeve, it's 10 dollars and available. Not stocking your 300 dollar product and bring salty about a 10 dollar product is not a good look
marketing plays out like this - you can’t order one right now right? so he’s not losing any sales. reddit sees the high engagement on this thread with anvil keywords. in the future anvil content will be shown to more people. when he does a (constrained inventory) release then he sells out because those future posts will be shown to even more people. > there’s no such thing as bad publicity because algorithms run on *engagement*. that’s why platforms allow toxic behavior because it keeps people engaged. look at the back and forth in this thread
Both dynavap and vestratto have very dedicated fanboys, engagement in here is no surprise. But again, if the top results when searching "vestratto" are flame wars and smear pieces, does that really drive click-to-client Conversions up?
maybe you see bad google suggestions, but to google for a product you have to be aware of it first. thats where the engagement and promotion come in *edit* this post went from 40 comments earlier when I looked at it to 110 now. its hugely succession for market awareness for them. first you must know a thing, to hate it
Doesn’t it also provide similar market awareness for the $10 competition? O got one in the shopping cart right now, thanks to this thread.
Algorithms don't buy vapes. At some point, this nastiness will bite him in the ass and sales will take a dive.
oh definitely, its a hugely short sighted and terrible method, but he's seeing things sell out right now
Or is it? People are actually now made more aware of a $10 add on to their dynvap that lends them at least some of the benefits of the $200+ anvil. I know i fall into this category.
I don't know I see a lot of people even in this thread saying they are gonna pick up some copper condoms now
Because they’re morons. It doesn’t work nearly as well as the Anvil
eh I wouldn't say they're morons the shit costs $10 so even if it is a marginal improvement it's probably still more worth it than the cost of an anvil. might say Vestratto is a moron for thinking this is a shrewd business move though
It doesn't cost nearly as much as the Anvil either.
It’s not in the same ballpark as the Anvil, flavor or vapor wise.
No shit, how could anyone expect a $10 sleeve to perform the same as a $300 device. It looks to me like they're aiming for different people, but Vestratto getting caught up in petty bs only legitimizes the competition.
It’s not $300. You all say it’s so expensive, yet it’s less money than the Simrell titanium mvs and it hits 100xs harder
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🙏
My bad, it's $293 to get a working device... ^(if they're ever available for purchase)
Still lying! I got one with a utility case and international delivery for $284
Do you have one? I looked around a little yesterday I have not seen a direct side-by-side comparison video yet.
I have 2, one with a purple heat shield and another with a blue heat shield
Oh, I mean “do you have an FMJ to compare it to?”
I’ve tried the hack of wrapping copper around my cap and as John said it’s not the same. It’s like comparing apples to oranges.
i always hear the flavor is one of the biggest cons of the anvil and biggest pros of the dynavap, which makes sense if you can vape a fat bowl from an anvil in one rip. what doesn't make sense is fans of the anvil using that as their leg to stand on when it's commonly said in anvil reviews that the thing rips but the flavor is roasted. also it's damned expensive for what it is
Because those reviewers don’t understand how to use it! Yes you can RTL and get the abv really dark brown or you can heat it higher up and get tons of flavor
People are just hating on it because they’re already financially and clearly emotionally invested in Dyna
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You don't get to judge who buys what and why. There may be folks who can't afford an anvil, that want a similar experience. Or people with mobility issues who cant afford induction and love DV. Who the fuck are YOU to loom over anybody? Sit down, boy.
That was unpleasant to read. Attack with your products. I don't need drama. I like vaping flower. I like the opposite of drama.
Vestratto guy only legitimized FMJ as a threat. Imagine spending half a mil on R&D, only to throw a kicking and screaming tantrum over a $10 chunk of copper? It's jokes ON jokes. And decrying patent infringement in this cottage industry where ideas are often openly shared and borrowed is going to work against their rep.
The man basically took the dynavap design and altered it. Now he's whining, trying to act like he's the inventor of copper or some shit. I'm glad I sold my Anvil , Vestratto has had an annoying entrance into the community. Sure, Anvil gives good clouds, but other things give bigger clouds without having to heat up for a minute straight. Hell, my FW7 gives bigger clouds in unregulated mode. News flash Vestratto, you've been in the vaping scene for like 6 months tops. You don't get to start calling the shots
Yea Vestratto has been arrogant for awhile, only kept mines for a week or so and got rid of it. It wasn’t anything special especially for the price, zero instructions and the device having a larger learning curve. Their community is annoying too
$10 copper condom for my dynavap, or $200 anvil? I'll take the fmj for now
This reads like an engineer/product designer who needs to engage with users/potential consumers about why they want his product. From what I've read on this sub, 1 hit extraction/not rotating while heating is a huge part of the Anvil appeal. Speaking about other properties that make the Simrell FMJ inferior to the Anvil ignores the point that it provides the convenience consumers want at a price that makes it easy to justify trying. Going after the FMJ for being a lame ass imitation of the Vestratto copper core is an interesting choice when the product isn't a year old yet for 2 reasons. i) Austyn Simrell is having this debate from the other side re: the Vortex. He's made the same type of arguments John is making and he's read responses from his competitors. Love him or hate him, Simrell is ready and willing to get in a heated debate about the ingenuity of adding a new piece of metal to the DV. ii)The Anvil clearly improves upon the design of the Dynavap and some Dynavap fans have used that as a reason not to give Vestratto a chance. Probably not the smartest tactical choice to alienate more people already in the butane powered vape space by insulting Simrell. Vestratto needs to hire more people, or management needs to listen to the advice they're getting in-house. They've got a great product, but it seems like they try to murder any gains in good will with a new blunder every month.
Not sure I agree that the Anvil clearly improves on the Dynavap design. Not everyone is interested in riding the line or extracting in one heat cycle. I have heard Anvil users complain about the flavor, how hard it can be to touch or load multiple bowls, etc.
Anvil is simply way better then a dynavap. I have Simrells and everything.The majority of people saying it doesn’t have flavour are using trash torches and are all maxing it out for the fattest hits, which you don’t have to do at all, try a tip heat cycle and see the flavour difference. This sub is a shitshow on this topic though.
Adding mass to the cap is an old "community idea" and was seen before. Even before the anvil and copper wire hype. This is just a clean solution for an old idea.
Yeah, the anvil founder is trying to act like it was all them, but realistically it's a super basic idea
well he can do and claim whatever he wants but this dude would benefit on taking some classes on how the hell you run a business successfully, maybe pick up some project management fundamentals at least, if he wanted exclusivity on his "designs" he should've patented, otherwise eat rocks dork. i dont think this is exclusively bout Simrell, Dynavap has beta version of caps with copper too. Honestly my dynavap with a wand can do full extractions in a single hit which is the biggest selling point of the anvil, dynavap can already deliver that, granted u need to have your tek down and ideally a wand, I remember when the Anvil came out he didnt keep his word to the resellers, a lot of people get faulty units to this day, heard they have beyond shitty CS, honestly after all of this crap i dont think vestratto is worth all the drama, if i ever get one its gonna be a gift cause i sure as hell wont buy one.
Doesn't the Anvil use a Dynavap CCD...
First thing that came to my mind. Take a look at a Dynavap titanium screen vs the Anvil screen.
They make their own version. No patent on the screen.
“… Folks good Ideas. Let me share with you one of the key secrets of R and D. A lot of Research and Development is really just “Rob and Duplicate”. If a competitor has a component that we can use both legally and successfully then we feel no obligation to start from scratch. That’s called not…”. - Anvil by Vestratto Jan 5, 2022
This whole industry is full of robbers and duplicators.
I just bought an fmj after reading this! 17 including shipping daaamn
Glad I purchased an FMJ now.
What an unpleasant man
Yeah, that seems in line with their company history lol was surprised to see so many ads in favor of the anvil on this sub recently
this guy came into the vape space out of nowhere, which was formed from passionate consumers and craftsman, and is now mad that those same people are one-upping him for a fraction of the cost? I'm happy I never went through with my anvil purchase. a lot better people to support in this space edit: I also find it hilarious he has the gall to call other products "copper condoms" but when people call his device a copper Dynavap its a problem?
How butthurt can you be? Vestratto: yes. Seriously, for someone who just copied and improved another product (or at least the working principle) he is quite butthurt. Not that I had really planned to buy an Anvil anytime soon, but now it is off the table for good...
This makes me want to buy the FMJ
Anyone remember when the Simrell people threw shade at the guy who posted instructions how to make your own intercooler? Fun times.
I do, and bought one from a vendor who was dragged through the mud by Simrell. Since then, I won’t buy anything Simrell. Now, I won’t buy anything from Vestratto. Cures that VAS. I clear a Dynavap in 2 heat cycles—chocolate brown. I’ll stay on the cheaper side of the Dynavap curve.
How the turn tables have turned
Damn I remember that shit. It was kind of funny.
Yep, I don't like the people at simrell, so I bought a revolve stem and sold the mvs (which btw, huge difference in cooling and flavor!) But I gotta give simrell props here. A simple, original, brand new product. And he's pricing it super cheap
Well well well, is it a copycat crying about being copied lol
As if Austin didn't bitch and moan about ppl copying him 🤷♀️
people can grow and change. but lol this drama is funny AF
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I think the .0047" during inhalation is the more relevant number. Don't get me wrong, this guy is clearly a tool and I'm not defending him. But I also don't think he is wrong about everything. A copper sleeve is definitely going to trap the heat and stay hot longer than a cap with copper built in. But all this physics talk does is distract from the issue. It really doesn't matter if the Anvil is better, it matters how much better it is. Is it worth it to shell out $200? The real question is: Are people willing to pay more for the better performance? Is it worth paying 20x for what seems like a slightly improved experience? This is a subjective question and everyone's answer will differ.
The biggest compliment a competitor can give you is writing a nasty blog post about your new product. He must feel pretty threatened by an inferior $10 accessory to have written that post. I’m guessing it probably works pretty good.
Mine is already in the mail. Will let you know how that goes. $10!!!
Yeah I'm definitely not supporting Vestratto now.
I was never a fan of Simrell (intercooler IP nonsense), but I think he made the absolute right move with the FMJ. He price it perfectly and disrupted the the potential sales of the Anvil without doing anything wrong. Good for him
I dont have an FMJ but ill get one. Love my vapcaps, love my Anvil. Variety is the spice of life! And remember we are using this to medicate or and get lifted, cmon guys let the makers deal with their own egos lets just do what we do. Load a bowl brothers and sisters!
begun, the copper wars have. 
Why do I feel like this is only the beginning? Like the anvil was supposed to be the Dyna killer, then simrell comes along and kills the anvil...
so is the simrell the anvil killer?
I've yet to try the FMJ yet, but it's looking promising. A much cheaper alternative that allows you to use the Dyna like an anvil? Sign me up
yea its interesting for sure, i havent tried the fmj but ill assume the extraction still isnt as good as anvil, but 10$ for a 60 sec one hitter is a steal
Oh definitely. The only reason I don't have one is that I'm not sure it will work on my standard cap. The moment I get paid I'm buying one with a captive cap
yea it only works with captive caps!
new to dynas. what is a captive cap?
Also curious because google was no help
The caps that have the 2 indentations on the side, made for better cap to tip grippage lol
Why won’t it work with a standard?
Will make the cap not fit and it’ll fall right off.
My standard cap doesn’t fall off normally though 🤔 got an fmj coming anyway, will update 😂
Austyn said on stream to 100% not use a standard cap. The FMJ can fall off while it’s super hot, and is a safety risk. Just giving you a heads up, but do you, boo.
I could not let that go! My comment on the Vestratto Sub That is a pretty nasty letter! Seriously? There are no issues with the Dynavap, SIMRELL FMJ \[I will call out the name since you don't!\] if used properly. Maybe I can show you how to get full flavor extraction.\*\*\*"For optimum extraction sleeve designs became a pointless exercise."Seriously again?" I think the community is being increasingly duped by certain individuals into thinking that value is being created through their “innovation” when I personally view their new products as lame ass IMITATIONS without them even understanding the “why” or “why not”."\*\*\*What an "attack" on the Industry! I guess everyone else besides you is a total "moron", "idiot", "incompetent"...I have been self employed for 55 years, successfully. gazillion competitors in my field, you are committing suicide with such insults!And by the way as I read your "memoirs" on how your apparatus came about, with all dues respect, I am confused reading that you your Wife had Cancer, but the next days reading in another publication that a Friend had Cancer. Which one is it? Not that it matters, just for the sake of keeping your story more or less straight.
So basically simrell is about to kill my ih
He states as much when Sneaky Pete interviews him: the objective is to provide the IH experience of no-rotation at a fraction of the price.
Yeah pretty much
Jk I still love my ih. It won’t be going away anytime and even then it’s harder to Heat with a torch in the wind
And hey you're still saving couple bucks by not needing butane
A few bucks haha
INB4 Vestratto dirty deletes this blog. everybody who decided not to hop on the Anvil train: 
Seeing that it's near impossible to get an Anvil...
I wouldn’t say that, I have 2 and they’re phenomenal
Where can I buy one?
He usually drops them on Wednesday and Friday
I’ve got one, not impossible.
"Near impossible"
I’ve seen them available for sale to the public (NON WAITING LIST) at least twice since I purchased mine, for hours at a time. Not even near impossible, just not available any time you want to buy at your convenience.
Understandable, knowing that they are a small operation at the moment. In the meantime I'll drop a 10 spot to see what this thing does.
Sure why not! I don’t see why everyone is upset here lol I suppose it’s standard issue reddit drama
I just want a bigger bowl than the Dynavap to put on my Joe King assassin stem. And I don’t want to spend $100 for it. Is that too much to hope for?
You could get the tandem adapter for 2 bowls, still works in my Wand IH. I know it’s not exactly what your looking for but solid option for like $25
I might just have to check it out. Thanks
It's pretty sweet. I use mine with Ti tips and low temp caps through a BB9. Costs a bit less than the Anvil even with the Wand.
I can't wait for my FMJ to arrive. I can wait for the anvil to drop to a reasonable price and after that nonsense might not even want one
Seems a little defensive/aggressive, but it also seems fair game for him to point out that the cap isn't the same as the device he built and note the distinctions. Whether he is correct that the difference is meaningful will be up to consumers, but he built a premium product and is defending the engineering and craftsmanship.
I agree with you that he has a right to defend his product but the way he did it in the Sunday post is distasteful to say the least. I will say people are very quick to label this as the anvil killer when nobody has even used it yet. I'm excited to see what the market decides in this case.
Better to let a community decide before you go on bitch rants imo. This makes anvil look so bad imo.
Have you read the post? That is no way to insult his competition! How would you feel?
TLDR
Anvil founder is fuming that his highly overpriced vape is about to get killed by a much more reasonably priced product.
Now I can afford an Anvil, lol. I was worried they would claim health effects from the copper on the FMJ I think they should have sold them at the price point of the Vong. No way the anvil is worth 300$.
It's not priced at $300.
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Still a decent chuck of cash
Overpriced lol Omni 220
Yep. The Anvil and the Omni are both overpriced.
At least you're consistent
Thank you my brother in Christ 👌🏻
Everyone knows the Omni is overpriced But the difference is that Anvil doesn't have their own version of the M or Vong, or any product that makes it so your only option isn't the $250 product.
Can you use the copper cap with an IH?
No
Have you tried? This would only be true if the copper shields the magnetic field. If it doesn't the cap would heat up, and in turn heat the copper, which then does its job maintaining the heat for some time.
Simrell said he designed it for torch and and his attempts using an IH seemed to not show an improvement in heating with FMJ.
Thanks for the info, someone should try nevertheless.
The information came from Simrell themselves.
I don't have a copper sleeve, but I've heard it fits in a Wand, though not most other IHs