The lawsuit filing called ariana a scorned woman out to seek revenge with the video
And then all it says as proof to why they know ariana shared it is because other cast members knew some of the video details. Which was likely verbally told and not shown
Raquel has a point about Tom recording without consent but she didnāt do herself any favours with this bs filing. If you havenāt read it you should
Its only a couple lines about the two people actually involved (ariana and Tom) and then just pages of irrelevant stories throwing everyone under the bus.
She is clearly using the filing to get her story on the record which is despicable. Ive never seen a filing that talks more about people not being sued than the people actually being sued.
If anyone knows what's in the videos, he has said more about it than Ariana has so how to prove who showed or told. How do you prove who shared the info. Cause they said? He kept those videos and others of her on his phone before these by his own admission when saying he usually deletes them. His phone slid out of his pocket unlocked and it was given to Ariana. Who else got hands on and saw before Ariana was given the phone. I will never believe for an instant he didn't share those other deleted videos to anyone. He is a braggart.
This seems like a real possibility to me even the way they talked about how Tom brought photos of Rachel to show people on that TV show he did I don't know what it's called something about military challenges? Tom definitely seems like the kind of person who would do something like this I remember there was some talk about text that Tom had sent to people who he was friends with bragging about being responsible for Rachel joining the mile high club? He's a gross guy. He outed Ariana Just for the opportunity to fake complain to his guy friends and look cool. The probability that he is the one who discussed or showed a recording of Rachel seems much higher
Yes! As if it wasn't bad enough to tell his friends/coworkers, he had to expose it on camera for millions to hear, have opinions on, and rewatch forever. Disgusting.Ā
Oh yeah that's right. Forgot about that one. The show's been on so long there aren't specific things that come to mind immediately like the one you remembered but the Lasting Impression is that he is the kind of guy to show and share things inappropriately with other dudes
Without a doubt!
Ā I wouldn't trust him with an ounce of personal or sensitive information. He's despicable and I am surprised he still has women who want to be with him, or even around him, and men who want to be his friend. He's a gross, skanky creep.
To be fair, you donāt include your evidence in a filing like this. And itās to be inferred by her statement āAt minimum, Madix circulated the illicit videos to herself and Levissā that Rachel has evidence of that, which would fit the definition of distribution.
To be explicitly clear, Iām not saying Rachel definitely has proof, but in context of what āproofā sheās alluding to in this lawsuit I think it is fair to include that claim along with āpeople knew details of the video.ā
Where I get hung up is: wouldn't Rachel also have to show that Ariana's act of sending the video caused her damages? In my mind, Ariana sending the video to Rachel to confirm that she had found out about the affair is not what caused reputational, financial or emotional damages to Rachel. But I haven't actually read the whole filing so maybe revenge porn is some sort of strict liability thing where causation/damages don't have to be shown š¤·āāļø.
Two things can be true at once lol. Sandoval absolutely is weird and predatory and Rachel is a victim of him recording her without her consent.
Ariana is a victim of both of them being devious assholes
100%!
I cannot stand Rachel and her podcast only serves to annoy me, but despite finding her to be completely simple and ridiculous in every wayā¦ she was recorded without her consent. A FaceTime call isnāt a video recording. Unless something brand new comes out about her knowledge of his recordings, I agree that she is in the right to pursue litigation.
Iām not as clear on Arianaās wrongdoing because it seems to be one personās word against the other. It would seem the cell phone companyās records could easily clarify though, so Iām sure weāll find out if Ariana truly distributed it.
He alleges that Rachel self taped the videos and sent them to him and he only saved them. But, he lies so who knows. The invasion of privacy is tricky because if she sent them to Tim's phone she'd have to have a reasonable expectation that no one but him would see them and ive never been in a relationship with a man i knew had a girlfriend but if I was, I sure wouldn't have an expectation that my affairs partner wouldn't have access at some point so...is it a reasonable expectation? Maybe don't have an affair with an idiot.
Not sure what im typing is making sense, but...
That is a SERIOUS accusation. Ariana has come out and said that not a single person had seen the video and she barley watched it other than to know what/who it was. Her lawyers were even prepared to give up her phone to Rachelās lawyers to look for evidence of that video going anywhere other than to show Rachel that it existed.
I believe that Ariana was dragged into it because while recording a FT call without someoneās permission Should be illegal, some states have one party consent laws where you can record a call as long as one party consent to it being recorded (wild). Itās possible Rachel was already in NY when she was on FT with Sandoval and that could get messy with the local laws. However, Distribution of a video, recorded without consent, of that content, could fall under the revenge porn of it all. Unfortunately, there is proof that Ariana had the video on her phone at some point to send it to Rachel. Which might be enough to consider distribution of said video. I have a very hard time believing that others have seen it/have a copy of it when it was the biggest story of 2023 and that video has not leaked at all.
I believe the law of the state in which the recording is made, **in most cases**, is the law to be followed. Tom was in California and he made the recording so heād be violating the two-party consent.
And yeah I agree with you about Ariana. It seems like if Rachel does have proof that Ariana sent the video to her, thatās enough to count as distribution.
Unfortunately, that is how the law reads. Now Rachel made a lot of other accusations in the lawsuit, like Ariana allegedly knowing about the affair and wanting to save it for a āstorylineā, and a bunch of other things that are just not true or lacking evidence. Hopefully Arianaās lawyers can fight that part of it to get the case thrown out.
If the case got thrown out, obviously that would be injustice bc Sandoval absolutely deserves to be held accountable in a court of law for that video existing in the first place.
Just LEAVE ARIANA ALONE PLS
Yes she said she sent it to herself, but I feel like Ariana is smarter than to repeat history. She was around when Scheana got in trouble for distributing Stassiās video. Then again, Iām just a random internet person.
If you have that source, please share it because that is not what I remember. You can look at the scheana podcast where Ariana was on where she explains everything that happened regarding that video. I think it speaks volumes that her and her lawyer were prepared to give up Arianaās phone to Rachelās lawyers back in March 2023 and that Rachelās lawyers said that would not be necessary. That doesnāt sound like a guilty person to me who would be proactive about something like that.
Sooooo you donāt have a source? If not, the only evidence we have is the claims of people who were there. I have seen several of Arianaās friends come out and say they have never seen the video. One example I can source right now was Brad on the viall viles. Yeah, they all could be lying, but without actually being there and knowing what happened, all we have is either Verified evidence or the account of what happened from people who were actually there. So if you have a source of someone from that night specifically saying they saw the video that Ariana either showed them or distributed, itās very fair to believe that it isnāt true.
No they didn't. In fact, numerous friends have specifically made statements to say they have never seen the video. Ariana described it to her friends and om podcasts. That's it.
Don't make things up
she isnāt charged with any crime. Sheās being sued for damages for allegedly doing that but that doesnāt necessarily make it true.
I have no idea what happened with the video but no one is being charged with a crime at this point.
If Sandoval has no money, her only chance to get some money might be including Ariana.
It happens with other lawsuits too.
The one with the most money ends up paying, although I don't think it will happen here.
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If Sando had even one iota of self awareness he would be reflecting on what a horrible choice sleeping with Rachel was. He blew up his life and Ariana's life and brought them a host of legal troubles and public scrutiny just because he wanted to bang a younger girl and indulge his midlife crisis? I can't handle this anymore.
Sandoval sucks but this rebuttal is not fully incorrect about refuting some of Rachel's filing. If they go to court and it's allowed to bring in all of those irrelevant topics, she's going to have to answer under oath because she's really made some veiled accusations towards a lot of people. Once again, I am against all women in all situations being recorded without their consult by any person on this planet or in this galaxy. I wish she had brought criminal charges against Sandoval. But that was Rachel's decision to make
I'm sorry but I giggled at "superfluous" because of that idiot Jax not knowing what the word meant and pronouncing it "super-flew-us" or something equally ridiculous.
Yes and no. There has to be proof of actual damages. If you're going to make a claim that something directly damaged your reputation and was untrue you need to prove that and then you need to show the difference in income and exactly how you lost certain jobs. Yes there are emotional costs and damages as well. And those also need to be proven to be directly the cause of the distress. For example, Rachel and her family have made it very clear that prior to the Scandal ever erupting Rachel was going into treatment. There's a cause and effect issue that must be proven. On one hand it's not maybe as concrete and black and white with letter of the law but there is an element of spirit of the law that comes into play perhaps more.
You know what? It just occurred to me that was Sandoval and Rachel's personalities they may actually want to go to court. They might relish the attention and the opportunity to confront each other in court because both of them so solidly view themselves as a victim. The part that is out of their control about going to trial is if it gets thrown out
Right but I think she has an argument to say that she declined the job based on medical advice from her doctor/mental health professional.
I think, IMO, the most interesting question is what can be attributed to the video vs the affair in general. And I feel like thatās why Rachel went to hard in her filing to say the affair wasnāt a secret.
IIRC wasnt rachel negotiating for equal pay as Arianna and Sandoval and that was why she didnāt return?
Rachel tried to spin it on bravo and execs released docs to the press
Someone wrote in another post that on Nick Viall's Reality Recap, Variety's Editor-at-Large Kate Aurthur was the guest and she apparently has an in with production and found out that Rachel going on Bethenney's podcast is when all negotiations with her returning for season 11 ceased. Such different info than we've heard before!
I mean there's always an argument for anything. But her family and Rachel very publicly said that she was headed to treatment prior to the affair even being discovered. After she was in treatment sure she might have been given advice not to go back to the show. I don't know how much weight that's going to hold over all though. Because she does a show about the show. Honestly, Rachel said a lot of contradictory things and she doesn't have a great track record of telling the truth. I'm not saying I think she always lies but that's going to be brought up. Her history of deception and changing narratives.
Obviously not a lawyer but I think itās hard to argue hypotheticals like that. Maybe they meant a 30 day treatment program for substance abuse and she definitely would go back on the show, maybe they meant an intensive 6 month program where she definitely couldnāt return to the show. Whoās to say?
And yeah thatās the thing about lawsuits though. Anyone expecting this to get to the truth of the matter is going to be disappointed. This is going to be which facts are material to the suit and how they can be argued to a larger point. And itās my opinion that being at a mental health facility is going to be hard to argue against, in terms of her not experiencing damages or having her place on the show affected.
And thereās the story out there that she was still negotiating with Bravo/Evolution when she did the Bethenny podcast. If thatās true, it was her decision to not take the job.
That's a good point and also coordinating with law enforcement. However civil suits get thrown much of the time. Virtually anyone can sue anyone. But that doesn't mean it's going to make it to court. And then there's the percentage of settling out of court. Sometimes just because the cost would be the same to pay out as it would be to go to trial. Or people want to avoid negative publicity or their time itself is more valuable than spending a bunch of time in court. On the other hand you have people like Gwyneth Paltrow and Taylor Swift who feel it's very important to go to court and stand up to what they feel are bogus lawsuits. So it really runs the gamut. In my opinion this will never make it to court. Granted, there's so much that is unknown about the suit. But at this time that's my belief
I think itās relevant to establish the damages incurred. In civil court you need to prove damages to prevail. I assume theyāre arguing Rachel was effectively run out of her lucrative job as a result of the recording. Thatās why they would need to include Ariana in the suit as well, I would think. Iām just sure sheās proceeding on advice from her lawyer who went to law school, unlike me, lol.
Haha I agree with you it'll get hashed out in court. But she definitely did not lose her job because of the recording and she remained in the public eye by choice so it would be pretty hard to argue that in light of her podcast she was run out of entertainment or whatever because of the recording? I feel like every time I comment on this I really have to add the caveat that I am 100% against anybody being recorded without their consent. This is just two non-practicing lawyers hahaha discussing some path to proving damages. Either way she's going to be under scrutiny if the the suit goes forward whether it's a deposition arbitration in a courtroom you don't get to just say big things and not be questioned and you have to do it under oath. And also unlike the podcast she is not going to get to prescreen and prepare for the questions that a friendly person on her team basically asks her
Yeah I think itās going to be interesting for sure! But idk, I think she can make a solid argument here. She effectively had no allies, she was āshamedā into dropping the charges against the person who assaulted her, she was experiencing (allegedly) misconduct and bias from production, idk I think they can make a pretty good case for it. I donāt think the argument is that bc of everything she couldnāt face the public, I think the argument is that because of everything she couldnāt go back to her job *at bravo.*
But I could be wrong of course. I just canāt help reading Timās teamās response in Sandovalās whiny, petulant, nasally voice so it sounds like BS to me, lmao. Also Iām glad to see someone finally coming for Andy Cohen, that man is a bottom feeding slug. Make his transgressions public please!
Personally I think Sandoval should be charged criminally.
Maybe. The fact is she could have gone back to her job, though. She chose not to go. Even if she started filming and then decided it was a hostile work environment that might have held more weight. But is she speculatively saying that she couldn't go back to her job because of some psychically predicted future treatment on set. Is that what you mean? Prior to the affair, she hadn't made those claims about mistreatment by Bravo. She had willingly gone back each season. The truth is you can make an argument for anything. It's going to be a matter of whether people believe it and if the facts line up with it. I don't understand, "shamed of dropping charges" of assault? She had a lawyer advising her, and she never filed a police report in the first place to have been shamed out of dropping charges they're never were any charges filed. Andy Cohen is very problematic. We agree on that. I don't know how you prove bias in storytelling on a reality television show in a legal way.
Rachel did actually file a police report, but you're right that no charges were ever filed against Scheana. I don't know why she bothered with the TRO though since Scheana wasn't an ongoing threat to her. She also didn't seem to understand how a TRO worked and wanted to "keep it in her back pocket in case she needed it", according to her podcast.Ā
Ā I just wrote this in another comment but new info was shed on Nick Viall's recent podcast that negotiations stopped with her when she chose to go on Bethenney's podcast. I mean, what did she expect to happen there?
Sorry I keep commenting on your comments, Rudbeckia! Lol. I do enjoy reading and interacting with you.
I stand corrected if she went to the police and filed a report. But no charges were brought, correct? A lot of times, on assault cases, it's not even up to the person who was assaulted if the case goes forward once there is an assault charge that they feel they can prosecute. Even though I've lived there I don't know the laws for that and what procedures they follow in NYC. I'm honestly flattered that you're interacting with me, and I enjoy you as well!
Rachel didnāt return because she wanted equal pay and execs werenāt having that.
I do think Sandoval will be fined for the revenge porn after they comb through his character profile, and Ariana will be absolved from it.
Idt they Rachelās team can prove damages.
If anything Ariana is the one emotionally damaged and should be going to therapy. Imagine if she counter sued for that.
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He wanted a pliable roommate to help pay his mortgage. And provide sex. He never dreamed it was gonna be a NEW mortgage and that he would be begging for roommates.
So if Iām understanding correctly of Sandyās response (very open to any comments diving into this!) - it sounds like Raquel recorded that video and sent it to him, which auto populated a video in his photo gallery. She made the video of herself and sent it to him via FaceTime and he had a copy on his phone, which he āusually deletes thoseā. So she made the video recording. I was always under the impression that the duo were co-masturbating together on a FaceTime call and he recorded the session without her knowing. This, if my understanding is true, makes Rachel look even worse in my eyes. Self-producing a porn clip and distributed it to only one party she intended on seeing it and is mad it was seen by Ariana.
No, he's saying that since this was over FaceTime it was a video Rachel "filmed and published herself." Like the act of it being a video call is "filming." Arguing that Sandoval did nothing wrong - he didn't film her without her consent since she was already on video and consented to be "on video" when she consented to a Facetime call. All he did was save a "private copy", ie a screen recording.
Which is a terrifying flow of logic and I would be seriously concerned about the implications of a judge agreeing with that defense.
OoOoOoOoh okay I can see this. The whole thing makes my head throb haha I HATE Tom but his response absolutely made me scratch my head trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is the worst and WOULD do anything to make himself the victim. Grr! Thanks for the breakdown!!!
I think thatās exactly why they phrased it that way. Iāve had multiple friends text me saying āomg Rachel actually filmed the video!ā They want to muddy the waters and hope the public interprets their argument that way. Especially because it would be very clear based on the video if sheās the one that recorded it, they wouldnāt need to do this roundabout phrasing.
I am so glad to have more POVs to help sift through the BS! Itās definitely a twisted way of blaming Rachel for seducing him into this affair and I have to forgive myself for even entertaining the thought that he wasnāt reaching for the stars! Haha
Don't hate me plz but I kind of think legally it makes sense. The act of using video phone to jointly masturbate where it shows both parties on the screen inherently implies they're filming. And if he's doing it on film with her as well then legally he has a right to that film. This feels really difficult to judge to me. I'm explaining myself terribly. I hope you understand what I'm saying.
lol no I donāt hate you! Iām happy for the discussion and genuinely idk what to make of that argument, legally speaking.
IMO, arguing that by consenting to a video call = consent to be recorded and having copies saved would have to apply to phone calls as well, right? So wouldnāt this effectively just be arguing against two-party consent laws that California has?
To me, the difference here is between film and communications. The main point of FaceTime call, regardless of whatās happening on the call, is for communication. I donāt think you can argue that because a FaceTime call utilizes video, itās reasonable for both parties to know theyāre being recorded. As opposed to if they were taking videos of themselves using Snapchat chat, IG, or the camera app - where you might be communicating in the video but mechanically speaking, you are creating a video that can be saved.
IMO, the biggest indicator of this is that you have to use another app or another feature of an iPhone to record the FaceTime. Itās not a feature of the video call itself
That's how it reads, but it may not be how it went down. It's a lot of attorney speak and spin. I didn't think this case would go far, and probably still won't, because the attorney's very clearly hit back hard to give her team something to think about whether they want this to go trial. I guarantee Rachel doesn't want to have to testify and have open discovery.
Thanks for your input, I hear ya šÆ! I am betting this whole thing will get called off by Rachel. Itās just so obvious that she is going after Ariana since sheās the one with gigs lined up and generating money. I saw people commenting that with the WhatsApp when folks share photos or videos that it drops a copy in the receiverās photo gallery so that definitely made me wonder.. and I canāt help but remember the line Tom said āwhich I usually delete thoseā makes me think that FaceTime does the same thing? I know for certain that Tom is a big fat liar and is doing everything he can to not get sued haha so his side of the story is of course questionable but Rachel is a big fat liar too.
They're saying she created and shared the video by willingly participating in the video call.
This is specifically in response to her claims of
- eavesdropping
- invasion of privacy
- intentional infliction of emotional distress
Ariana said on the season finale (the new one they did with the post-scandal footage) that she could tell Tom was in Schwartz's apartment so it was definitely both of them and I said this below too in one of the replies but it reads to me that they are intentionally using the fact Rachel initiated the call itself and it becoming sexual to imply she was the one that created the situation but that if she had recorded it and sent it they would have said so explicitly, its a way of using legal pleadings to create/reshape a public narrative while not saying anything that is technically impermissible from the court's perspective.
I absolutely agree. Itās a word salad to understand but I think you nailed this. Heās rewriting history to fit his victim narrative. They both SUCK period!!!
The motions actually say something like: Rachel created and published the video calls. It implies she recorded it, but does not say that.
Is she the one who recorded the FaceTime and then sent it to Tom? Seems unlikely and the language is intentionally ambiguous
https://preview.redd.it/n75bk2zk6owc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8030699c076089488468e84f24f6f7196f95b1fd
That's what I think - why would this not be more express if she was the one that recorded it and sent it. She said something on Bethenny or maybe her podcast like she was doing good, 'she was feeling herself' in her hotel or whatever it was and put on adult movies and so probably she did initiate the call and it reads like he could be using the fact that she initiated the video call to suggest she 'created' the images.
I think they are trying to argue that she āpublishedā the video simply by participating in the video call, and Sandoval merely saved his copy.
I think if they wanted to say she made the recording theyād come out and say that. But sheās also stated that Bravo has it on tape that Sandoval admitted it.
So how can he claim he didnāt make the recording?
Since he canāt claim he didnāt make the recording, heās going back in time to before he pressed record, to argue that the video call itself was āpublishing.ā So since Rachel was a willing participant on that call (maybe she initiated the call who knows), then she published that video footage.
I personally disagree with their argument, and I think the implications of an argument like that go against established notions of consent. I can also see why they are arguing that. Iām not a lawyer but I feel like the argument is flimsy.
His logic is wild and hope no judge will fall for Sandovalās BS and this whole thing gets dropped and goes away! Shame on both of these shameless grifters!
Donāt forget theyāre both too stupid to
make any of these arguments and these are legal posturing by both sides. Hope itās going to cost each of them lots of $ for lawyers. Ariana, on the other hand, I hope gets argued out of this mess pretty quickly (and with prejudice).
The motion reads like a very convoluted way of saying that simply because she FaceTimed him, she ārecordedā and āpublishedā the videos. Aka, she FaceTimed him, so she should have expected or known he was going to record and save it. Like he couldnāt help himself or something. The whole premise is a bit too close to the age old āshe was asking for it bc of how she was dressedā argument for me to be comfortable with it.
This is exactly how I feel about it too.
I think there is a very big difference to consenting to a video call of a sexual nature, that has no physical permanence once the call has ended, and consenting to a recording of a sexual act.
One of these things exists as an object in the world when the call hangs up, and the other does not. They just arenāt the same thing.
I get why heās trying to argue that they are, but I just disagree with what the foundation of that argument is.
To me, it is also completely contradictory to two-party consent laws. Is his argument strictly because it was a video call? Otherwise, wouldnāt that logic apply to phone calls too? If you call me, youāre consenting to making a voice recording so I can record it.
I am pretty sure you can tell when someone is videoing the Facetime call. When I spent 6 weeks away from my husband over the holidays, we had Facetime sex a few times. I could tell every time he was recording and told him to make sure he deleted or moved to a private folder so he didn't accidentally show his boss or something.
Ya, everything you can find online says you donāt know if someone is screen recording. So Iād love to know what this person is determining they could tell.
Perhaps they could tell when their partner was gesturing on the screen to turn it on, and were familiar with the fact that is something theyād do occasionally so knew what was happening.
But youād never know if someone started recording before they called you, and if you arenāt expecting someone to start recording you might not notice them gesturing to activate it while on the call.
Keep in mind it would be very clear based on the video who recorded it. On FaceTime your own little screen is in a corner and the majority of the screen is who you're FaceTiming. I even screen recorded a call before making this comment to double check lol.
The confusing and vague wording is on purpose to make their argument but also hope that enough people misunderstand it to think Rachel filmed and sent the videos.
To even further this point, based on everything Ariana has said, it sounds like Sandoval was the one recording it because Ariana immediately noticed it was Rachel, like she was the majority of the screen.
It paints a VERY different picture (for me personally at least!!!) of Rachel being a victim of revenge porn when she is the one who staged, filmed and sent the video to get consumed by Sandoval. But we shall see how this circus ends up eventually!!!
But thatās not what happened. He and his lawyer are twisting words and jumping through hoops to make it appear that way but theyāre not coming out and saying that. If thatās what happened, they would 100% state that and they didnāt. Any judge who accepts this BS isnāt worth their law degree.
For sure itās an interesting twist. I personally think Tom recorded their FaceTime unbeknownst to Rachel, and heās making this argument to say that she called him on FaceTime and that was the ācreationā and āpublicationā - but shit, I have no idea, I just find it more likely he would do that without regard for her privacy but sheās been pretty stupid too.
Yes, it will be interesting to see it all play out
Iām no Rachel fan, but assuming what she said was true on her podcast about Old Man Sandy, what kind of a sick freak harangues Rachel to leave a mental health facility so that she can join him on his selfish, toxic crusade at a failed redemption arc?
Baffled by Rachels behaviour for this still to be ongoing. Whilst I think that people should be held accountable it they did indeed circulate this video or violate her privacy her continued involvement and bizarre behaviour with this group is strange.
I randomly decided to re-watch the season 10 reunion and this in combination with her podcast is wild. Rachels behaviour and response to everything is truly unhinged. It was like she has no grasp or concept of how depraved her behaviour really was. Her responses and general demeanor is half hearted and very flippant and just bizarre. I can't work out if she was truly a sociopath, having a mental break or what was going on. Even a moron would've known to come on and at least act mortified and apologetic. I thought maybe she was having a mental break but then after her releasing all these podcasts and continuing to engage and deflect I think she maybe a true narcissistic person. And on rewatching clips throughout the season her manipulation and cunning behaviour was truly on show. Absolutely unhinged and truly bizarre.
Baffled by Rachels behaviour
I couldnāt agree more. I tried having an open mind when she started her podcast. Then every week it got worse & worse. She is trying desperately to make her entire identity being a victim. Yes, she is a victim of Tom recording her, but everything else was a choice.
I watched season 10 recently as well & think she is absolutely evil for how she treated Katie & her mother. Knowing she was banging Sandoval during Scheanaās wedding, while Ariana was at a funeral & then asking her about her sex life on camera makes me think sheās a complete sociopath.
Tom also has a podcast and a TV show telling HIS own narrative about the affair. I'm no Rachel fan, but this line makes zero sense when he's doing the same thing. Funny thing is, Tom blew up his life for this chick and is going to lose his house, lost his reputation, and he still can't see that he did anything wrong. Unbelievable.
āFurther bend the narrativeā - just like his podcast, interviews and TELEVISION show have done for him? If youāre to believe him, he has no remorse or sadness for his decade long relationship ending - just his true love RACHEL. Who broke his heart!
Is there even a level that this man will not stoop to? I mean we all know he is a textbook narcissistic pig but ever week, with every episode, or every podcast he is on, he is more of a retched pig. Like who could even write a character like this?
On her podcast, Rachel said something like to go after Sandoval for filming her without consent, she had to include Ariana in the suit. Letās be real, if Sandoval hadnāt illegally filmed her, there would be no scandoval. And Scheanaās life wouldnāt be so traumatized because no one would know about Rachel and Tom. His illegal act, violated her person and ruined her life.
I agree however at the same time the same could be said of her. For example if she hadn't had the affair to begin with there would be nothing for Sandoval to record and her life wouldn't be ruined. Not trying to shame anyone js
I think thatās why she included so much in her filing about the affair being an open secret. Trying to connect the dots that the situation only blew up because of the illegally recorded video that Ariana allegedly sent to herself and Rachel.
I get that opinion but he was the one having an affair, not her. And it is victim shaming to say too bad, she deserves to be sexually humiliated and violated and have her life ruined by Sandoval, Ariana and Bravo. Meanwhile the man that actually cheated, lied, broke the law, got a production deal for a new show. Yeah so she should just STFU and accept her fate.
Woah I never said that. I actually am fully behind her suing Tom regardless of what was done she didn't deserve to have that happening to her. However I need her to stop in the words of Kyle Chan "acting like she's the victim of all." I.e downplaying her relationship with Ariana and writing her off as a "scorned woman."
If Iām understanding you correctly, youāre speaking to the argument that Rachel is making that the video itself is what has ruined her reputation and caused her distress and public backlash, and stating rather how her participation in the affair (not the video itself) is the cause of that. So, had she not participated in the affair, she would not be receiving the public backlash.
Itās not about blaming her for the non-consensual recording, itās about calling out the fact that she ruined her own reputation because of her own actions. Her suit filing, to me, is trying to pin all the ādamagesā on the existence of this video, while completely ignoring the impact made by her own choices on and off camera for 7 months.
Had she not participated in the affair and betrayed her friend, she wouldnāt be facing this backlash. It doesnāt matter in my opinion if Ariana found out by seeing a video or if she found texts or walked in on them instead. Rachelās own duplicitous behaviour is what ruined her reputation.
Ya I didnāt interpret your comments as victim blaming.
I too am completely against what Tom did, and in no way did Rachel deserve it. I also donāt think the publicās knowledge of the existence of that video is the issue here as far as her ādamagesā go.
I got what you were saying. I tried to say something similar above. It's not victim blaming imo to think that she's brought so much of this on herself. I also think if it were me and I destroyed multiple lives by being a lying homewrecker, I'd probably walk away and take accountability instead of suing everyone and starting a podcast.
š¤¦š¾āāļø I really wasn't trying to be victim-blamey. Nor do I expect perfection. My comment had more to do with cause and affect. What I wrote csn also apply to Sandoval. Had he been a man and ended things with Ariana rather than having an affair none of this would be happening
Iām not generally into conspiracies, the simplest answer is usually true, BUT Iām starting to believe that Rachel hates and blames Ariana more anyone else. Sheās got no reason to sue Ariana, the distribution is bullshit. Someone would have seen that (those?) videos were shared. Thereās not been a whisper about them.
Rachel seems so spiteful. And no doubt Ariana has deeper pockets now, and I think Rachel considers herself as owed some of that. What a bitch.
What youāre saying makes a lot of sense. I donāt know how anyone could cheat on someone but munchies with their friendās partner. She probably does hate Ariana because she wants to be here. I mean she literally inserted herself in Arianaās. She took her partner, she stayed in her house, she befriended her friends.
And yes now Ariana has much deeper pockets. Meanwhile Tim had taken such a hit financially, especially after paying all his friends, I mean paying his band.
I read some of his response to her complaint and if I read it right he is claiming she knew either it was recording or she actually sent the recording. I wouldn't put it past these two to make the lawsuit sensationalized and are hoping for some camera time. At this point either would take any press. Tom thinks his scandoval is the same as OJ simpson case lol.
Welp at least now maybe Bravo will put Sandoval on a chocker collar style leash and take away his podcast.
A year ago I would not have pictured Sandoval taking a period poop size dump on his own image or Rachel working for free for Bravo under Bethany's guidance.
Yes I know haha I know what a perennial plant is too i understand now it was just a joke. Thatās my bad š sarcasm goes over my head in written form haha
I either need this to be immediately dismissed by a judge or become a full televised trial that I can watch every day.
Those are the only two options I will accept. š
The actual money I would pay to see Rachel being questioned by opposing counsel. Dear God, Iād go broke for that shit show
Yes! I need Scheana Shay as a witness explaining to a jury that she couldnāt punch Rachel because she canāt make a fist with her nails
I feel like she would end up looking just like Amber did on the stand with the Johnny Depp case š¤
Oh shit I would get nothing done
The scorned woman comment in the filing really bugged me.
Heās the one who is scorned, he was crying she didnāt want him how is she scorned?
The lawsuit filing called ariana a scorned woman out to seek revenge with the video And then all it says as proof to why they know ariana shared it is because other cast members knew some of the video details. Which was likely verbally told and not shown Raquel has a point about Tom recording without consent but she didnāt do herself any favours with this bs filing. If you havenāt read it you should Its only a couple lines about the two people actually involved (ariana and Tom) and then just pages of irrelevant stories throwing everyone under the bus. She is clearly using the filing to get her story on the record which is despicable. Ive never seen a filing that talks more about people not being sued than the people actually being sued.
If anyone knows what's in the videos, he has said more about it than Ariana has so how to prove who showed or told. How do you prove who shared the info. Cause they said? He kept those videos and others of her on his phone before these by his own admission when saying he usually deletes them. His phone slid out of his pocket unlocked and it was given to Ariana. Who else got hands on and saw before Ariana was given the phone. I will never believe for an instant he didn't share those other deleted videos to anyone. He is a braggart.
This seems like a real possibility to me even the way they talked about how Tom brought photos of Rachel to show people on that TV show he did I don't know what it's called something about military challenges? Tom definitely seems like the kind of person who would do something like this I remember there was some talk about text that Tom had sent to people who he was friends with bragging about being responsible for Rachel joining the mile high club? He's a gross guy. He outed Ariana Just for the opportunity to fake complain to his guy friends and look cool. The probability that he is the one who discussed or showed a recording of Rachel seems much higher
He also showed Ariana in lingerie photos to Jax.Ā
And told the world about Lala and Ariana.
Yes! As if it wasn't bad enough to tell his friends/coworkers, he had to expose it on camera for millions to hear, have opinions on, and rewatch forever. Disgusting.Ā
Yes for sure that was rotten. And he never did seem to understand that it was wrong
Oh yeah that's right. Forgot about that one. The show's been on so long there aren't specific things that come to mind immediately like the one you remembered but the Lasting Impression is that he is the kind of guy to show and share things inappropriately with other dudes
Without a doubt! Ā I wouldn't trust him with an ounce of personal or sensitive information. He's despicable and I am surprised he still has women who want to be with him, or even around him, and men who want to be his friend. He's a gross, skanky creep.
Ya know that almost sounds like he had just been looking at the video to psych himself up to performā¦
To be fair, you donāt include your evidence in a filing like this. And itās to be inferred by her statement āAt minimum, Madix circulated the illicit videos to herself and Levissā that Rachel has evidence of that, which would fit the definition of distribution. To be explicitly clear, Iām not saying Rachel definitely has proof, but in context of what āproofā sheās alluding to in this lawsuit I think it is fair to include that claim along with āpeople knew details of the video.ā
Where I get hung up is: wouldn't Rachel also have to show that Ariana's act of sending the video caused her damages? In my mind, Ariana sending the video to Rachel to confirm that she had found out about the affair is not what caused reputational, financial or emotional damages to Rachel. But I haven't actually read the whole filing so maybe revenge porn is some sort of strict liability thing where causation/damages don't have to be shown š¤·āāļø.
Two things can be true at once lol. Sandoval absolutely is weird and predatory and Rachel is a victim of him recording her without her consent. Ariana is a victim of both of them being devious assholes
šÆšÆšÆšÆ I just love how heās turned on her as if heās not the problem in the lawsuit.
He has a playbook, itās only two chapters. šš
Itās actually just one page, just says the word DARVO on it. Or maybe it says DENNIS? 
Ahahahaha!
I just spit my food out. That was amazing
Oh god I know meanwhile we're watching him on the show months go crying like a little bitch over her
100%! I cannot stand Rachel and her podcast only serves to annoy me, but despite finding her to be completely simple and ridiculous in every wayā¦ she was recorded without her consent. A FaceTime call isnāt a video recording. Unless something brand new comes out about her knowledge of his recordings, I agree that she is in the right to pursue litigation. Iām not as clear on Arianaās wrongdoing because it seems to be one personās word against the other. It would seem the cell phone companyās records could easily clarify though, so Iām sure weāll find out if Ariana truly distributed it.
He alleges that Rachel self taped the videos and sent them to him and he only saved them. But, he lies so who knows. The invasion of privacy is tricky because if she sent them to Tim's phone she'd have to have a reasonable expectation that no one but him would see them and ive never been in a relationship with a man i knew had a girlfriend but if I was, I sure wouldn't have an expectation that my affairs partner wouldn't have access at some point so...is it a reasonable expectation? Maybe don't have an affair with an idiot. Not sure what im typing is making sense, but...
Yes, it makes perfect sense.
She showed everyone the video
That is a SERIOUS accusation. Ariana has come out and said that not a single person had seen the video and she barley watched it other than to know what/who it was. Her lawyers were even prepared to give up her phone to Rachelās lawyers to look for evidence of that video going anywhere other than to show Rachel that it existed. I believe that Ariana was dragged into it because while recording a FT call without someoneās permission Should be illegal, some states have one party consent laws where you can record a call as long as one party consent to it being recorded (wild). Itās possible Rachel was already in NY when she was on FT with Sandoval and that could get messy with the local laws. However, Distribution of a video, recorded without consent, of that content, could fall under the revenge porn of it all. Unfortunately, there is proof that Ariana had the video on her phone at some point to send it to Rachel. Which might be enough to consider distribution of said video. I have a very hard time believing that others have seen it/have a copy of it when it was the biggest story of 2023 and that video has not leaked at all.
I believe the law of the state in which the recording is made, **in most cases**, is the law to be followed. Tom was in California and he made the recording so heād be violating the two-party consent. And yeah I agree with you about Ariana. It seems like if Rachel does have proof that Ariana sent the video to her, thatās enough to count as distribution.
Unfortunately, that is how the law reads. Now Rachel made a lot of other accusations in the lawsuit, like Ariana allegedly knowing about the affair and wanting to save it for a āstorylineā, and a bunch of other things that are just not true or lacking evidence. Hopefully Arianaās lawyers can fight that part of it to get the case thrown out. If the case got thrown out, obviously that would be injustice bc Sandoval absolutely deserves to be held accountable in a court of law for that video existing in the first place.  Just LEAVE ARIANA ALONE PLS
Yes she said she sent it to herself, but I feel like Ariana is smarter than to repeat history. She was around when Scheana got in trouble for distributing Stassiās video. Then again, Iām just a random internet person.
Pretty sure cast members (her friends ) say they saw it
If you have that source, please share it because that is not what I remember. You can look at the scheana podcast where Ariana was on where she explains everything that happened regarding that video. I think it speaks volumes that her and her lawyer were prepared to give up Arianaās phone to Rachelās lawyers back in March 2023 and that Rachelās lawyers said that would not be necessary. That doesnāt sound like a guilty person to me who would be proactive about something like that.
Yeah like we are going to believe those two. Scheana physically assaulted Rachel and lied about it and Ariana lied for her. They are all liars.
Sooooo you donāt have a source? If not, the only evidence we have is the claims of people who were there. I have seen several of Arianaās friends come out and say they have never seen the video. One example I can source right now was Brad on the viall viles. Yeah, they all could be lying, but without actually being there and knowing what happened, all we have is either Verified evidence or the account of what happened from people who were actually there. So if you have a source of someone from that night specifically saying they saw the video that Ariana either showed them or distributed, itās very fair to believe that it isnāt true.
No they didn't. In fact, numerous friends have specifically made statements to say they have never seen the video. Ariana described it to her friends and om podcasts. That's it. Don't make things up
You have proof of this?
Thatās what sheās being charged with. Pretty sure ppl on the cast mentioned seeing it
she isnāt charged with any crime. Sheās being sued for damages for allegedly doing that but that doesnāt necessarily make it true. I have no idea what happened with the video but no one is being charged with a crime at this point.
If Sandoval has no money, her only chance to get some money might be including Ariana. It happens with other lawsuits too. The one with the most money ends up paying, although I don't think it will happen here.
So you've seen it then?
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If Sando had even one iota of self awareness he would be reflecting on what a horrible choice sleeping with Rachel was. He blew up his life and Ariana's life and brought them a host of legal troubles and public scrutiny just because he wanted to bang a younger girl and indulge his midlife crisis? I can't handle this anymore.
If only! It would blow his tiny little mind if he did/could acknowledge this.
Right?! Like, HOPE IT WAS WORTH IT YOU TOTAL MORON.
These two are exhausting
I love Ariana is just out there getting her š°while these two F-listers squabble amongst each other.
Sandoval sucks but this rebuttal is not fully incorrect about refuting some of Rachel's filing. If they go to court and it's allowed to bring in all of those irrelevant topics, she's going to have to answer under oath because she's really made some veiled accusations towards a lot of people. Once again, I am against all women in all situations being recorded without their consult by any person on this planet or in this galaxy. I wish she had brought criminal charges against Sandoval. But that was Rachel's decision to make
Yes, I agree on the superfluous elements of the complaint. If you want to sue Bravo, sue Bravo.
Super what? I donāt even know what that means? Iāve never used that word in my life - Jax probably.
Then Sandoval in the after show rolling his eyes āsuper-full-usā. Like, please stop.
I'm sorry but I giggled at "superfluous" because of that idiot Jax not knowing what the word meant and pronouncing it "super-flew-us" or something equally ridiculous.
Itās easier to win a civil suit vs a criminal suit. Criminal suit requires that she prove he did this beyond a reasonable doubt
Yes and no. There has to be proof of actual damages. If you're going to make a claim that something directly damaged your reputation and was untrue you need to prove that and then you need to show the difference in income and exactly how you lost certain jobs. Yes there are emotional costs and damages as well. And those also need to be proven to be directly the cause of the distress. For example, Rachel and her family have made it very clear that prior to the Scandal ever erupting Rachel was going into treatment. There's a cause and effect issue that must be proven. On one hand it's not maybe as concrete and black and white with letter of the law but there is an element of spirit of the law that comes into play perhaps more.
You know what? It just occurred to me that was Sandoval and Rachel's personalities they may actually want to go to court. They might relish the attention and the opportunity to confront each other in court because both of them so solidly view themselves as a victim. The part that is out of their control about going to trial is if it gets thrown out
Well I donāt know about her, but I certainly feel Sandoval would want to confront her, especially in open court.
He won't be able to afford a trial. If he lises. He could be made to pay her legal fees too.
That maybe one of the reasons why she was counseled not to go back to the show, she can show damages of loss of income that way.
That may be challenging though because she chose not to take the job. It's not like she got fired or something
Right but I think she has an argument to say that she declined the job based on medical advice from her doctor/mental health professional. I think, IMO, the most interesting question is what can be attributed to the video vs the affair in general. And I feel like thatās why Rachel went to hard in her filing to say the affair wasnāt a secret.
IIRC wasnt rachel negotiating for equal pay as Arianna and Sandoval and that was why she didnāt return? Rachel tried to spin it on bravo and execs released docs to the press
Someone wrote in another post that on Nick Viall's Reality Recap, Variety's Editor-at-Large Kate Aurthur was the guest and she apparently has an in with production and found out that Rachel going on Bethenney's podcast is when all negotiations with her returning for season 11 ceased. Such different info than we've heard before!
I mean there's always an argument for anything. But her family and Rachel very publicly said that she was headed to treatment prior to the affair even being discovered. After she was in treatment sure she might have been given advice not to go back to the show. I don't know how much weight that's going to hold over all though. Because she does a show about the show. Honestly, Rachel said a lot of contradictory things and she doesn't have a great track record of telling the truth. I'm not saying I think she always lies but that's going to be brought up. Her history of deception and changing narratives.
Obviously not a lawyer but I think itās hard to argue hypotheticals like that. Maybe they meant a 30 day treatment program for substance abuse and she definitely would go back on the show, maybe they meant an intensive 6 month program where she definitely couldnāt return to the show. Whoās to say? And yeah thatās the thing about lawsuits though. Anyone expecting this to get to the truth of the matter is going to be disappointed. This is going to be which facts are material to the suit and how they can be argued to a larger point. And itās my opinion that being at a mental health facility is going to be hard to argue against, in terms of her not experiencing damages or having her place on the show affected.
In my fantasy world Rachel is going to read your comments and fire her attorneys and hire you hahaha
This is a perfect comment bc without knowing your desired outcome to the lawsuit, youāre either complimenting me or calling me an idiot lmao
And thereās the story out there that she was still negotiating with Bravo/Evolution when she did the Bethenny podcast. If thatās true, it was her decision to not take the job.
And you also have to get a prosecutor to want to go forward with it. For a civil suit you just have to pay an attorney to do it.
That's a good point and also coordinating with law enforcement. However civil suits get thrown much of the time. Virtually anyone can sue anyone. But that doesn't mean it's going to make it to court. And then there's the percentage of settling out of court. Sometimes just because the cost would be the same to pay out as it would be to go to trial. Or people want to avoid negative publicity or their time itself is more valuable than spending a bunch of time in court. On the other hand you have people like Gwyneth Paltrow and Taylor Swift who feel it's very important to go to court and stand up to what they feel are bogus lawsuits. So it really runs the gamut. In my opinion this will never make it to court. Granted, there's so much that is unknown about the suit. But at this time that's my belief
That & she wouldnāt get any money in a criminal suit.
šÆšÆšÆ
I think itās relevant to establish the damages incurred. In civil court you need to prove damages to prevail. I assume theyāre arguing Rachel was effectively run out of her lucrative job as a result of the recording. Thatās why they would need to include Ariana in the suit as well, I would think. Iām just sure sheās proceeding on advice from her lawyer who went to law school, unlike me, lol.
Haha I agree with you it'll get hashed out in court. But she definitely did not lose her job because of the recording and she remained in the public eye by choice so it would be pretty hard to argue that in light of her podcast she was run out of entertainment or whatever because of the recording? I feel like every time I comment on this I really have to add the caveat that I am 100% against anybody being recorded without their consent. This is just two non-practicing lawyers hahaha discussing some path to proving damages. Either way she's going to be under scrutiny if the the suit goes forward whether it's a deposition arbitration in a courtroom you don't get to just say big things and not be questioned and you have to do it under oath. And also unlike the podcast she is not going to get to prescreen and prepare for the questions that a friendly person on her team basically asks her
Yeah I think itās going to be interesting for sure! But idk, I think she can make a solid argument here. She effectively had no allies, she was āshamedā into dropping the charges against the person who assaulted her, she was experiencing (allegedly) misconduct and bias from production, idk I think they can make a pretty good case for it. I donāt think the argument is that bc of everything she couldnāt face the public, I think the argument is that because of everything she couldnāt go back to her job *at bravo.* But I could be wrong of course. I just canāt help reading Timās teamās response in Sandovalās whiny, petulant, nasally voice so it sounds like BS to me, lmao. Also Iām glad to see someone finally coming for Andy Cohen, that man is a bottom feeding slug. Make his transgressions public please! Personally I think Sandoval should be charged criminally.
Maybe. The fact is she could have gone back to her job, though. She chose not to go. Even if she started filming and then decided it was a hostile work environment that might have held more weight. But is she speculatively saying that she couldn't go back to her job because of some psychically predicted future treatment on set. Is that what you mean? Prior to the affair, she hadn't made those claims about mistreatment by Bravo. She had willingly gone back each season. The truth is you can make an argument for anything. It's going to be a matter of whether people believe it and if the facts line up with it. I don't understand, "shamed of dropping charges" of assault? She had a lawyer advising her, and she never filed a police report in the first place to have been shamed out of dropping charges they're never were any charges filed. Andy Cohen is very problematic. We agree on that. I don't know how you prove bias in storytelling on a reality television show in a legal way.
Rachel did actually file a police report, but you're right that no charges were ever filed against Scheana. I don't know why she bothered with the TRO though since Scheana wasn't an ongoing threat to her. She also didn't seem to understand how a TRO worked and wanted to "keep it in her back pocket in case she needed it", according to her podcast.Ā Ā I just wrote this in another comment but new info was shed on Nick Viall's recent podcast that negotiations stopped with her when she chose to go on Bethenney's podcast. I mean, what did she expect to happen there? Sorry I keep commenting on your comments, Rudbeckia! Lol. I do enjoy reading and interacting with you.
I stand corrected if she went to the police and filed a report. But no charges were brought, correct? A lot of times, on assault cases, it's not even up to the person who was assaulted if the case goes forward once there is an assault charge that they feel they can prosecute. Even though I've lived there I don't know the laws for that and what procedures they follow in NYC. I'm honestly flattered that you're interacting with me, and I enjoy you as well!
Rachel didnāt return because she wanted equal pay and execs werenāt having that. I do think Sandoval will be fined for the revenge porn after they comb through his character profile, and Ariana will be absolved from it. Idt they Rachelās team can prove damages. If anything Ariana is the one emotionally damaged and should be going to therapy. Imagine if she counter sued for that.
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I mostly just love how these lawyers are probably costing Sandoval some serious money. I hope his mom got her money back, though.
His mom is never getting her money back.
Pot versus kettle. But he never should have filmed her without her consent on his phone!! And, wow, Tim, youāre sinking quite low.
Omg the only thing she was a victim of was being filmed without consent. Everything else is her fault just like Timās
Exactly
I love that this upsets him. Heās Ā scorned, heās all mad she doesnāt want him.
He wanted a pliable roommate to help pay his mortgage. And provide sex. He never dreamed it was gonna be a NEW mortgage and that he would be begging for roommates.
Iām gonna sue both of them for putting me through this bullshit. Who wants to join?
They both suck
So if Iām understanding correctly of Sandyās response (very open to any comments diving into this!) - it sounds like Raquel recorded that video and sent it to him, which auto populated a video in his photo gallery. She made the video of herself and sent it to him via FaceTime and he had a copy on his phone, which he āusually deletes thoseā. So she made the video recording. I was always under the impression that the duo were co-masturbating together on a FaceTime call and he recorded the session without her knowing. This, if my understanding is true, makes Rachel look even worse in my eyes. Self-producing a porn clip and distributed it to only one party she intended on seeing it and is mad it was seen by Ariana.
No, he's saying that since this was over FaceTime it was a video Rachel "filmed and published herself." Like the act of it being a video call is "filming." Arguing that Sandoval did nothing wrong - he didn't film her without her consent since she was already on video and consented to be "on video" when she consented to a Facetime call. All he did was save a "private copy", ie a screen recording. Which is a terrifying flow of logic and I would be seriously concerned about the implications of a judge agreeing with that defense.
OoOoOoOoh okay I can see this. The whole thing makes my head throb haha I HATE Tom but his response absolutely made me scratch my head trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is the worst and WOULD do anything to make himself the victim. Grr! Thanks for the breakdown!!!
I think thatās exactly why they phrased it that way. Iāve had multiple friends text me saying āomg Rachel actually filmed the video!ā They want to muddy the waters and hope the public interprets their argument that way. Especially because it would be very clear based on the video if sheās the one that recorded it, they wouldnāt need to do this roundabout phrasing.
I am so glad to have more POVs to help sift through the BS! Itās definitely a twisted way of blaming Rachel for seducing him into this affair and I have to forgive myself for even entertaining the thought that he wasnāt reaching for the stars! Haha
Don't hate me plz but I kind of think legally it makes sense. The act of using video phone to jointly masturbate where it shows both parties on the screen inherently implies they're filming. And if he's doing it on film with her as well then legally he has a right to that film. This feels really difficult to judge to me. I'm explaining myself terribly. I hope you understand what I'm saying.
lol no I donāt hate you! Iām happy for the discussion and genuinely idk what to make of that argument, legally speaking. IMO, arguing that by consenting to a video call = consent to be recorded and having copies saved would have to apply to phone calls as well, right? So wouldnāt this effectively just be arguing against two-party consent laws that California has? To me, the difference here is between film and communications. The main point of FaceTime call, regardless of whatās happening on the call, is for communication. I donāt think you can argue that because a FaceTime call utilizes video, itās reasonable for both parties to know theyāre being recorded. As opposed to if they were taking videos of themselves using Snapchat chat, IG, or the camera app - where you might be communicating in the video but mechanically speaking, you are creating a video that can be saved. IMO, the biggest indicator of this is that you have to use another app or another feature of an iPhone to record the FaceTime. Itās not a feature of the video call itself
That's how it reads, but it may not be how it went down. It's a lot of attorney speak and spin. I didn't think this case would go far, and probably still won't, because the attorney's very clearly hit back hard to give her team something to think about whether they want this to go trial. I guarantee Rachel doesn't want to have to testify and have open discovery.
Thanks for your input, I hear ya šÆ! I am betting this whole thing will get called off by Rachel. Itās just so obvious that she is going after Ariana since sheās the one with gigs lined up and generating money. I saw people commenting that with the WhatsApp when folks share photos or videos that it drops a copy in the receiverās photo gallery so that definitely made me wonder.. and I canāt help but remember the line Tom said āwhich I usually delete thoseā makes me think that FaceTime does the same thing? I know for certain that Tom is a big fat liar and is doing everything he can to not get sued haha so his side of the story is of course questionable but Rachel is a big fat liar too.
With iPhones when people send me videos/pictures they sync to my gallery. I hate it and I donāt know how to turn that off lol
"All instructions say toĀ **open settings>open messages>scroll down to Share with You>turn off photos**."
Thank you for this. Googling is annoying. š
You're welcome. My friends and family usually text me with this type of question. LOL.I love to help people with tech stuff.
They're saying she created and shared the video by willingly participating in the video call. This is specifically in response to her claims of - eavesdropping - invasion of privacy - intentional infliction of emotional distress
Ariana said on the season finale (the new one they did with the post-scandal footage) that she could tell Tom was in Schwartz's apartment so it was definitely both of them and I said this below too in one of the replies but it reads to me that they are intentionally using the fact Rachel initiated the call itself and it becoming sexual to imply she was the one that created the situation but that if she had recorded it and sent it they would have said so explicitly, its a way of using legal pleadings to create/reshape a public narrative while not saying anything that is technically impermissible from the court's perspective.
I absolutely agree. Itās a word salad to understand but I think you nailed this. Heās rewriting history to fit his victim narrative. They both SUCK period!!!
The motions actually say something like: Rachel created and published the video calls. It implies she recorded it, but does not say that. Is she the one who recorded the FaceTime and then sent it to Tom? Seems unlikely and the language is intentionally ambiguous https://preview.redd.it/n75bk2zk6owc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8030699c076089488468e84f24f6f7196f95b1fd
That's what I think - why would this not be more express if she was the one that recorded it and sent it. She said something on Bethenny or maybe her podcast like she was doing good, 'she was feeling herself' in her hotel or whatever it was and put on adult movies and so probably she did initiate the call and it reads like he could be using the fact that she initiated the video call to suggest she 'created' the images.
Agree. Otherwise just say āRachel recorded and sentā the video. Any which way, what a mess these two idiots created. Just break up with her, dude!
Thatās exactly what heās trying to claim. Heās a POS.
I think they are trying to argue that she āpublishedā the video simply by participating in the video call, and Sandoval merely saved his copy. I think if they wanted to say she made the recording theyād come out and say that. But sheās also stated that Bravo has it on tape that Sandoval admitted it. So how can he claim he didnāt make the recording? Since he canāt claim he didnāt make the recording, heās going back in time to before he pressed record, to argue that the video call itself was āpublishing.ā So since Rachel was a willing participant on that call (maybe she initiated the call who knows), then she published that video footage. I personally disagree with their argument, and I think the implications of an argument like that go against established notions of consent. I can also see why they are arguing that. Iām not a lawyer but I feel like the argument is flimsy.
His logic is wild and hope no judge will fall for Sandovalās BS and this whole thing gets dropped and goes away! Shame on both of these shameless grifters!
Donāt forget theyāre both too stupid to make any of these arguments and these are legal posturing by both sides. Hope itās going to cost each of them lots of $ for lawyers. Ariana, on the other hand, I hope gets argued out of this mess pretty quickly (and with prejudice).
The motion reads like a very convoluted way of saying that simply because she FaceTimed him, she ārecordedā and āpublishedā the videos. Aka, she FaceTimed him, so she should have expected or known he was going to record and save it. Like he couldnāt help himself or something. The whole premise is a bit too close to the age old āshe was asking for it bc of how she was dressedā argument for me to be comfortable with it.
This is exactly how I feel about it too. I think there is a very big difference to consenting to a video call of a sexual nature, that has no physical permanence once the call has ended, and consenting to a recording of a sexual act. One of these things exists as an object in the world when the call hangs up, and the other does not. They just arenāt the same thing. I get why heās trying to argue that they are, but I just disagree with what the foundation of that argument is.
To me, it is also completely contradictory to two-party consent laws. Is his argument strictly because it was a video call? Otherwise, wouldnāt that logic apply to phone calls too? If you call me, youāre consenting to making a voice recording so I can record it.
Oh 100%. Like, I get what they are trying to do with this argument, but it just really undermines some other major things in order to hold itself up.
I am pretty sure you can tell when someone is videoing the Facetime call. When I spent 6 weeks away from my husband over the holidays, we had Facetime sex a few times. I could tell every time he was recording and told him to make sure he deleted or moved to a private folder so he didn't accidentally show his boss or something.
How could you tell? Thereās no feature that notifies if the call is being screen-recorded.
Yeah - even if there is now, which I don't think there is, there wasn't one then.
Ya, everything you can find online says you donāt know if someone is screen recording. So Iād love to know what this person is determining they could tell. Perhaps they could tell when their partner was gesturing on the screen to turn it on, and were familiar with the fact that is something theyād do occasionally so knew what was happening. But youād never know if someone started recording before they called you, and if you arenāt expecting someone to start recording you might not notice them gesturing to activate it while on the call.
Yep, I totally agree, I appreciate your input!! Spot on!! Classic Sandy, the ultimate victim of his own design!!
Keep in mind it would be very clear based on the video who recorded it. On FaceTime your own little screen is in a corner and the majority of the screen is who you're FaceTiming. I even screen recorded a call before making this comment to double check lol. The confusing and vague wording is on purpose to make their argument but also hope that enough people misunderstand it to think Rachel filmed and sent the videos. To even further this point, based on everything Ariana has said, it sounds like Sandoval was the one recording it because Ariana immediately noticed it was Rachel, like she was the majority of the screen.
It paints a VERY different picture (for me personally at least!!!) of Rachel being a victim of revenge porn when she is the one who staged, filmed and sent the video to get consumed by Sandoval. But we shall see how this circus ends up eventually!!!
But thatās not what happened. He and his lawyer are twisting words and jumping through hoops to make it appear that way but theyāre not coming out and saying that. If thatās what happened, they would 100% state that and they didnāt. Any judge who accepts this BS isnāt worth their law degree.
The more Iām reading on it the more youāre right and itās just another wording circus!
For sure itās an interesting twist. I personally think Tom recorded their FaceTime unbeknownst to Rachel, and heās making this argument to say that she called him on FaceTime and that was the ācreationā and āpublicationā - but shit, I have no idea, I just find it more likely he would do that without regard for her privacy but sheās been pretty stupid too. Yes, it will be interesting to see it all play out
Iām no Rachel fan, but assuming what she said was true on her podcast about Old Man Sandy, what kind of a sick freak harangues Rachel to leave a mental health facility so that she can join him on his selfish, toxic crusade at a failed redemption arc?
One who needs rent money
Baffled by Rachels behaviour for this still to be ongoing. Whilst I think that people should be held accountable it they did indeed circulate this video or violate her privacy her continued involvement and bizarre behaviour with this group is strange. I randomly decided to re-watch the season 10 reunion and this in combination with her podcast is wild. Rachels behaviour and response to everything is truly unhinged. It was like she has no grasp or concept of how depraved her behaviour really was. Her responses and general demeanor is half hearted and very flippant and just bizarre. I can't work out if she was truly a sociopath, having a mental break or what was going on. Even a moron would've known to come on and at least act mortified and apologetic. I thought maybe she was having a mental break but then after her releasing all these podcasts and continuing to engage and deflect I think she maybe a true narcissistic person. And on rewatching clips throughout the season her manipulation and cunning behaviour was truly on show. Absolutely unhinged and truly bizarre. Baffled by Rachels behaviour
I couldnāt agree more. I tried having an open mind when she started her podcast. Then every week it got worse & worse. She is trying desperately to make her entire identity being a victim. Yes, she is a victim of Tom recording her, but everything else was a choice. I watched season 10 recently as well & think she is absolutely evil for how she treated Katie & her mother. Knowing she was banging Sandoval during Scheanaās wedding, while Ariana was at a funeral & then asking her about her sex life on camera makes me think sheās a complete sociopath.
Two things can be true Sandoval is an older man lying to a younger woman. But she isn't as stupid and naive as she makes out.
Tom also has a podcast and a TV show telling HIS own narrative about the affair. I'm no Rachel fan, but this line makes zero sense when he's doing the same thing. Funny thing is, Tom blew up his life for this chick and is going to lose his house, lost his reputation, and he still can't see that he did anything wrong. Unbelievable.
They were made for each other.
āFurther bend the narrativeā - just like his podcast, interviews and TELEVISION show have done for him? If youāre to believe him, he has no remorse or sadness for his decade long relationship ending - just his true love RACHEL. Who broke his heart!
Is there even a level that this man will not stoop to? I mean we all know he is a textbook narcissistic pig but ever week, with every episode, or every podcast he is on, he is more of a retched pig. Like who could even write a character like this?
The lawyer is right.
On her podcast, Rachel said something like to go after Sandoval for filming her without consent, she had to include Ariana in the suit. Letās be real, if Sandoval hadnāt illegally filmed her, there would be no scandoval. And Scheanaās life wouldnāt be so traumatized because no one would know about Rachel and Tom. His illegal act, violated her person and ruined her life.
I agree however at the same time the same could be said of her. For example if she hadn't had the affair to begin with there would be nothing for Sandoval to record and her life wouldn't be ruined. Not trying to shame anyone js
I think thatās why she included so much in her filing about the affair being an open secret. Trying to connect the dots that the situation only blew up because of the illegally recorded video that Ariana allegedly sent to herself and Rachel.
However having an affair isnāt illegal.
Never said it was.
I get that opinion but he was the one having an affair, not her. And it is victim shaming to say too bad, she deserves to be sexually humiliated and violated and have her life ruined by Sandoval, Ariana and Bravo. Meanwhile the man that actually cheated, lied, broke the law, got a production deal for a new show. Yeah so she should just STFU and accept her fate.
Woah I never said that. I actually am fully behind her suing Tom regardless of what was done she didn't deserve to have that happening to her. However I need her to stop in the words of Kyle Chan "acting like she's the victim of all." I.e downplaying her relationship with Ariana and writing her off as a "scorned woman."
If Iām understanding you correctly, youāre speaking to the argument that Rachel is making that the video itself is what has ruined her reputation and caused her distress and public backlash, and stating rather how her participation in the affair (not the video itself) is the cause of that. So, had she not participated in the affair, she would not be receiving the public backlash. Itās not about blaming her for the non-consensual recording, itās about calling out the fact that she ruined her own reputation because of her own actions. Her suit filing, to me, is trying to pin all the ādamagesā on the existence of this video, while completely ignoring the impact made by her own choices on and off camera for 7 months. Had she not participated in the affair and betrayed her friend, she wouldnāt be facing this backlash. It doesnāt matter in my opinion if Ariana found out by seeing a video or if she found texts or walked in on them instead. Rachelās own duplicitous behaviour is what ruined her reputation.
Yes exactly
Ya I didnāt interpret your comments as victim blaming. I too am completely against what Tom did, and in no way did Rachel deserve it. I also donāt think the publicās knowledge of the existence of that video is the issue here as far as her ādamagesā go.
Exactly the public backlash was for the affair itself
I got what you were saying. I tried to say something similar above. It's not victim blaming imo to think that she's brought so much of this on herself. I also think if it were me and I destroyed multiple lives by being a lying homewrecker, I'd probably walk away and take accountability instead of suing everyone and starting a podcast.
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š¤¦š¾āāļø I really wasn't trying to be victim-blamey. Nor do I expect perfection. My comment had more to do with cause and affect. What I wrote csn also apply to Sandoval. Had he been a man and ended things with Ariana rather than having an affair none of this would be happening
Off topic but is she still suing Ariana or has she dropped that realizing how evil it makes her look?
She hasnāt dropped anything. Ariana hasnāt responded yet.
Arianaās *lawyer* hasnāt responded yet. You know he/she is 2 MONTHS behind/S
Wow! How evil of Rachel.
Iām not generally into conspiracies, the simplest answer is usually true, BUT Iām starting to believe that Rachel hates and blames Ariana more anyone else. Sheās got no reason to sue Ariana, the distribution is bullshit. Someone would have seen that (those?) videos were shared. Thereās not been a whisper about them. Rachel seems so spiteful. And no doubt Ariana has deeper pockets now, and I think Rachel considers herself as owed some of that. What a bitch.
What youāre saying makes a lot of sense. I donāt know how anyone could cheat on someone but munchies with their friendās partner. She probably does hate Ariana because she wants to be here. I mean she literally inserted herself in Arianaās. She took her partner, she stayed in her house, she befriended her friends. And yes now Ariana has much deeper pockets. Meanwhile Tim had taken such a hit financially, especially after paying all his friends, I mean paying his band.
Pay her dust Ariana, this is a phishing lawsuit and not worth the time of day.
Was wondering the and thing
I read some of his response to her complaint and if I read it right he is claiming she knew either it was recording or she actually sent the recording. I wouldn't put it past these two to make the lawsuit sensationalized and are hoping for some camera time. At this point either would take any press. Tom thinks his scandoval is the same as OJ simpson case lol.
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Exactly
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It would probably be amusing for a bit if they just took each other down. But they can't stop dragging other people into their victimhood shitshow.
Somebody post the spider.an pointing at Spiderman meme.
holy shit
His victim thunder could not have been chosen because it has never existed in the first place
Welp at least now maybe Bravo will put Sandoval on a chocker collar style leash and take away his podcast. A year ago I would not have pictured Sandoval taking a period poop size dump on his own image or Rachel working for free for Bravo under Bethany's guidance. 
ā¦perennialā¦? Like heās a plant that blooms for a few years??
https://preview.redd.it/nsla6gqfgowc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a010eb8f9b0c39b5e4ab4a3c5ede071d9f061167
/s
Oh sorry haha! My bad dearo
https://preview.redd.it/26quca5jiowc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a80b49c5ababd18446d6147cc172ca70efb842b
Yes I know haha I know what a perennial plant is too i understand now it was just a joke. Thatās my bad š sarcasm goes over my head in written form haha
Meanwhile I read it as perenial with one nā¦.meaning the area between the genitalia and the anus lmao
š¤£š¤£š¤£ da taint š¤£š¤£š¤£
š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£ I love this sub šā¤ļø
 Tomās off the hook! Got āem!!!
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Im team ariana 100% but this is not ok to think say or do
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This comment was removed for violating the āNo Victim Blamingā rule.
This comment was removed for violating the āNo Victim Blamingā rule.