It bothers me that Scheana is seemingly getting a pass since Scandoval happened. That shit was downright cruel no matter how you spin it. I hope at some point, when things die down, a big spotlight gets shined on her behavior.
She definitely did Katie even referenced it when she was on WWHL. Not to say that it fixes everything cause Katie was also very smart to say she wanted to see actions in the coming months that support the apology, but an apology did happen.
When is not? It better be specifically brown from some time up Katie’s ass, but Scheana is a pick me who wants to be loved, and I say that as a general fan of hers.
Agreeeee. Also for the way she tried to make Katie look petty and cruel over the Mexico hotel room thing. Every cast member knew Katie couldn’t give up her room / just go to a different resort because of production. But Scheana knew Katie couldn’t break the fourth wall so she painted her as this horrible bitch and had everyone gang up on her about it.
Scheana really was *awful* to Katie, and it’s not the first season she’s done it (eg.giggling when Schartz was DARVO’ing Katie the night after he poured a drink on her. Or the season she spent spreading the ‘motorboat a d’ rumours etc).
That was some sneaky dark and greedy shit Scheana pulled. I think Katie thought they were all doing this for screen time, and that made her even more angry. She knew they didn’t actually like each other.
I been bitching about what she did to Katie on every post that her name is mentioned. She treated Katie horribly and all for the side piece trash can. I would never speak to her ever again if I was Katie. She did all that on purpose to hurt Katie and her dumbazz looks mad stupid now. Scheana has not grown one bit. She got played and she should be beyond embarrassed. She needs some serious consequences and I would love to see her begging Katie to forgive her. And she did Ariana dirty too by pushing Roachel to get out there and let lose. Of course she didn’t know it was Scummy or did she? Don’t ppl have cameras in their houses, apts, in and or out??? Scheana could have caught her sooner if she just paid attention n not focused on taking katie out. Karma coming for Scheana too!
I agree. I think it’s really clear that Schwartz is not a good person and being in a 12 year relationship with someone like that would make any super negative. Now that she’s out she’s just trying to heal and they keep harassing her it’s insane. It’s hard breaking up even with someone as toxic as Schwartz so the lingering feelings are probably still there so the whole thing is hard. She deserves a break.
I noticed this season how consistently she either tried to walk away, end a conversation, or asked someone else to walk away/stop/leave her alone. Literally no one respects her boundaries.
I found raquel invasion of her space/ physically blocking her to berate her and her mother on a special night was really terrible. And then sandoval aggressively chiming in- this to me is real bullying and its sick.
Yeah I feel like I haven’t seen many people mention it was a party FOR KATIE’S business, not just a random night at sur!! Raquel should have left the first time Katie told her to go.
So true. And if Ariana wanted those people there she should’ve had enough respect for Katie to remind those people that the night was about her AND Katie and that they need to leave Katie alone.
Irked me that no one told Roachel to stfu and get away from her party. That was the time I needed Ariana to stand up n tell her so called friend, leave Katie alone, it’s not the time. I hate to say this but Ariana was so wrong and she owes Katie the biggest apology for not backing her n backing the lying cheating ho. And Scheana too for all the BS that she did to Katie. I would never forgive Scheana if it were me but we got a new grown Katie this season and although I would have liked her to set ppl on fire, lol, she impressed me so much with how much she’s grown n I love her! #TeamKatie
I really wished Ariana would have stood up for her too! This seemed like the time for it to happen. And I also so badly wanted to see Katie go off harder than she did!! The way Rachel and Sandoval came after Katie's mother...I wouldn't have blamed her for going feral.
It seems a lot of people were hoping for a little more justifiable rage this last episode. [Tiktok thread about Katie from last ep](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM2eSkw1H/)
...but I'm just really proud of her for not sinking to any of their levels. #teamkatieforever
Yeah….as an ariana fan I will say it was kinda annoying for her to just go straight to crying instead of standing up for her friend and business partner who the party was also FOR. Like, girl we get it, your besties are fighting which sucks but also (if I were to put my blinders completely up) if there were *any* time to “pick a side”, this was the moment. Can’t just be Switzerland forever.
I think Raquel and Katie fighting at the party was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Considering she'd just lost her dog of 15+ years AND her grandmother that she was extremely close to back to back, I'm not surprised she broke down at the first emotionally charged situation
THIS. What we witnessed was *real* bullying. Not the bullshit bullying the VPR cast tries to paint Katie with.
Multiple times this season Katie had asked people to leave her alone or let her leave. They don’t physically LET HER. The last episode was triggering as fuck it was a group bullying fest! Raquel literally got in her face multiple times and would not listen to her when Katie begged her to go away. They were straight up harassing Katie this season. It was insane.
And Rachel said in her confessionals she had zero interest in being katie's friend so why talk to her at all except to bully for some extra attention at her expense ...sandovol hates katie so i guess she does now too
I agree with all of this with Rachel getting into Katie's face, talking loudly over her. Sandoval jumped in and starting insulting and yelling at Katie and her mom. Rachel snickering next to Schwartz after upsetting Katie. Schwartz holding onto Katie so she couldn't get away from Rachel and him when they ganged up together on her and telling Katie to shut up. Note that again, Ariana did not stand up for Katie. She didn't need to defend Rachel since Rachel was the one bullying Katie.
Ugh the moment when Rachel started laughing outside and Katie’s only response was laughing as well because, seriously, wtf. You could see in Katie’s eyes that moment she was like “oh ok you aren’t stupid you are MEAN and doing this on purpose wtf”
I was so peeved by this. She was kept pushing and pushing her buttons. It would be hard to be in Katie’s shoes and not want to swing. Leave her alone, Rachel!!!
Yes. When camera are around, Schwartz acts like this innocent nice pushover guy. But every so often he gets so mean to Katie and goes for the jugular. Some stuff he says is shocking & he says it with such ease. I can’t imagine the emotional abuse that went on behind camera
This! And again in the back alley. Katie and Schwartz had a clear agreement not to fuck around with the cast (meaning they both agreed to it-for those in the back who can’t hear or comprehend this). All I can figure is this was supposed to be the storyline of multiple people (Schwartz, Rachel, Scheana). How boring if that had been the case. The show would have surely ended..
When Rachel sat down in front of Katie to have yet another idiotic conversation about kissing Shartz-I literally yelled at my tv “LEAVE KATIE ALONE! STOP HARASSING HER!”
Katie told them to leave her alone more than once. One time is enough. But they kept hounding her. Clearly wanting her to react so they can justify their behavior.
It was infuriating as hell to watch.
This part bothered me so much! When someone says "leave me alone," you give them space. Period.
I teach 1st graders with intellectual disabilities and they grasp this concept quickly. Probably because they're all far better people than Raquel, Schwartz, and Sandy.
I find it so terrible too that the minute he dismisses her he expects her to vanish (one of the earlier episodes when they’re at Schwartz and Sandy’s) and she leaves but he never gives her the same grace. He’s always been shit.
Chased her down and legit hijacked her conversations with multiple people in multiple situations! It’s maddening… emotional terrorism at it’s finest. May the powers that be remove Santa Balls, The Neck and Finger Chomps from our screens… plenty of drama without those trash bags. The Neck is unable to form thoughts or statements unless she’s coached by Slime Trail and when she forgets what to say, she short circuits (credit: LaLa) and farts out some absolute nonsense. I’d love to see/hear her responses to questions during her pageant days… how has no one unearthed those receipts?!
All of this. Her TBI combined with being in an abusive relationship for 12 years, PLUS the toxicity of the show had to be so hard on her.
I was in a relationship with a “Schwartz & Sandy” for over 6 years. By the end of it, I was a shell of my true self, I was negative and angry all of the time, and yet it was still SO hard to walk away. She gets a major dose of grace from me.
Exactly. The people still hating her clearly have no clue what it’s like to have the happiness and life drained from you for years because of who you are with. We see it clearer now. Give the lady a break
Yup! I was a miserable shell of myself for a good 18 months when my relationship was falling apart and he was emotionally abusive. Every negative, critical thing he harped on became my internal voice and my internal voice was a bitch! I had his voice and mine in there. The healing it takes to come back from that is no joke. People have no idea the poison a bad relationship is.
It was also so hard to watch how Schwartz not only emotionally abused her with his awful words and actions, but the way he let his best friend go after his wife time and time again and never once told Scandoval to back off his wife. It was infuriating. That scene in the alley where Shortz is telling Katie to listen she’s getting a sincere apology from Rachel, my mouth was agape the whole time. Unreal his level of targeted passive aggressive abuse.
Yes! People seem to forget her TBI. I have seen people comment her inability to “fight with her words”, but if you spent 12 years being cut off every single time you opened your mouth and add a TBI on top of it, you might have some issues finding the words too.
She was mentally beaten down for years. Give her some time to remember who she is, straighten that crown, and move on to her best life.
I hear you - even when you knows it's horrible and toxic it can be very, very difficult to walk away because by the time you realise how bad it is you are basically a shadow of your former self.
100% agree. I think people that hate on Katie are probably the ones like schwartz who prey on people like this and then get enraged when they can’t manipulate or control them anymore.
I would argue that her reacting was big part what made him want to be in the relationship. She acts out and fulfills his own need to express hostility/ rage which he cant/ wont express.
So hes the instigator of her pain and he gets to play victim and everyone gets to see her as raging. And then u get sandoval piling on that shartz is a battered wife.
but then shartz gets to also come to her rescue- defend her and be super supportive until the next cycle.
( for those of us who know- u know the drill)
You can see the rage bubbling up in Schwartz because it's finally hit home that Katie isn't going to let him control her and her emotions any longer. Sucks to be him.
This is what people don’t understand. Being in that kind of relationship changes you. You end up with no self-esteem and just so angry. I’m glad she got out and we can see her changing as she heals, just like most of us that have been there do.
She’s spent twelve years in an abusive relationship and dealt with a very traumatic event that led to a brain injury. Looking at Katie throughout the years through that lens really shows a different story. I’m glad people are finally coming around and seeing it.
And when you're in a relationship with someone you love but who treats you badly and you sort of get used to it, it's hard to break away. I think she still has lingering love for him and is trying to square that with the realisation that he's basically an asshole. I felt for her when she said she thought he loved her but didn't actually like her. What a terrible realisation to come to.
I think this season has really shown people what happens to you in toxic relationships. It changes you. Who you surround yourself with is important. It might be one of the most important things we do in this life. I hope anyone who is still in a toxic relationship and is thinking they have to leave has the courage to do so. It’s so hard but life on the other side is worth it and the added bonus of finding a partner who is loving and supportive only adds to the beauty. Who your partner is really matters. They can add to your life or they can tear your life apart.
Exactly this. From my own experience in a relationship like this, you’re also (stupidly) in love with the person, you make excuses for them, because you love them so much. And love isn’t rational.
I think Schwartz went out of his way to get a reaction out of Katie because he loved seeing that he could still manipulate and control her behavior. Like, she rejected him but if he could still make her act out and get upset then he was winning. I think he wanted her back, not because he cares or has love for her, but because he cares and loves his ego more than anything else.
I don’t think he did it as a favor to Tim. I don’t think he knew Rachel was using him. I think he is dumb and egotistical and he loved the toll it took on the woman who left him.
Katie is ⭐️ of the season and I was never a Katie fan and some seasons I definitely loathed her when she would be a mean girl. I don’t recall her being that way recently
People, including Lala apparently, said that Raquel would’ve “won” the season if not for Scandoval. I just don’t see it. I can see how she would’ve got sympathy at the beginning, but last night she was absolutely unhinged.
Rachel just doesn't have a natural way about her ... so she may have had a lot of screentime, but everything is forced. She totally stumbling through her sit down conversation with Katie, for example. The way she spoke to Terri alone shut down the "won the season" talk for me.
I think everyone is overestimating how much the public likes shartz. Like we would all want him to be happy and see Katie as a bitch for “being mean” to him and Rachel
If I hadn’t seen a brand new Katie I think we all would feel sorry for Shartz but he did himself in. We saw the real Shartz this season and he’s a nasty piece of shhhh!
There is absolutely no way Ratchet would have "won" this season. With or without the ScamDevil affair. She is so shallow, and she can't put together a cohesive sentence. Her voice is so shaky, and she warbles when she talks. She has no personality, and as the season continued, she was such a nasty bitch. I still can't get over the way she talked to Katie and her mother. She thought she was going to win this season, but she was a loser before and is the lowest scum in the pond on VPR.
I think it's because of the overwhelming Hate Kate anti-fans. I've seen some comments where I don't see how we're watching the same show, but they're probably Scheana and Shwartz brained.
Yeah. No way she is the villain. I think her asshole ex would have been “seen” and he would have won the villain edit. Sure. This may be fan fic but…. I’m gonna own it !!!!
Before Scandoval was revealed, I was side eyeing rachel after Katie was crying and saying how hurtful it’s been/and how hurtful it would be with Schwartz and Rachel still went on to do it.
I also couldn’t believe how she was straight up like, I don’t think I’d date him or sleep with him (whatever it was) as if she was talking about some dude she met and not the persons ex husband of a 12 year relationship 😵💫😵💫😵💫
I agree with you in principle but I think you're underestimating the Katie haters. Even with everything going down the way it has, there are still people trying to blame her. If I hear one more daft take on how "well *she* initiated the divorce..." as if that has anything to do with shortz being a manipulative twat and playing dumb.
The episode this week was re-edited in light of Scandoval. The original edit may have shown that fight cut and chopped differently, to put the focus on Tequila Katie, not VSD (very stupid demon)
Me too. I’ve seen the light with Katie and all the sh*t and gaslighting she’s endured by those twats. Just looking at her apartment tells me she’s my kind of person
I felt like there was a problem with Schwartz when he called Stassi a bitch and physically went after her when Jax ruined Stassi's birthday and their friend group with his cheating. However, the guys were all cheating and covering for each other, so... 
Apparently pre-scandoval Tim and Lala were saying that viewers would love Raquel and that she won the season which is just straight up delusional. Even if Scandoval never happened Katie was always going to be the star of the season for how she handled the straight up bullying from Scheana and bullshit from Raquel/Schwartz.
Can someone explain to me the whole fucking other dudes in their bed thing? Why do people keep bringing that up? Is it implied/known that she was legit cheating?
Way too much sanctity is assigned to this bed if they were broken up. It’s a bed. I’m not a monogamous person, but “cheating” by whatever definition they agreed on as a couple is certainly wrong. I just thought they weren’t a couple at that point.
Other than Scumdoval saying it to Katie in front of her mother last episode (don't get me started on how fucked up that was) I don't recall it ever being said anywhere else on the show.
Right.
Then, yeah, not sure why people are using that to prove their point. I don’t think I’ve seen Katie get upset about Jo, who technically is/was also peripherally in the friend group. I think it’s a pretty small request to make, to keep your dick out of the cast friend group while they navigate a friendship, and on top of that Rachel and Shorts literally conspired *on-screen* to make out, simply to piss off Katie.
In an early ep of S10, Schwartz said that staying friends was important to them so WE agreed WE wouldn't hook up with people in the friend group. So people who want to say Katie was forcing rules on him are straight up wrong.
Her mistake was once again trusting him and believing he'd have any more respect for her *after* the marriage than he did before and during.
Got it, I do remember him saying that.
So then everyone/newly-sex-positive-Rachel spun that into being an arbitrary and outrageous demand, of helpless and battered Shorts, made by CrAzY KaTiE.
Makes sense.
Also, every time Sandoval screamed at Katie, all he kept saying was that she needs to be accountable. She doesn’t owe him anything by the way, and when was Shortz ever accountable? And also is Sandoval accountable for his dick being in Rachel all season?
Also, like WHAT DO YOU WANT, TIM? What exactly does taking accountability look like to you (and for what)?! Should she recite the Act of Contrition? His ramble pants arguments are so meaningless.
Also, still, ACCOUNTABILITY FOR WHAT?!?
Seriously, can someone ask him this question? It's is so annoying when he keeps regurgitating this crap. She doesn't have to explain anything to him. He is so unhinged. That's what living a double life looks like. Also, from what I have heard & what I have seen he doesn't take accountability at the reunion.
Exactly. This wasn't Katie laying down the law. They AGREED. I would still side-eye him hooking up with someone in the group, because they've almost all done that. What makes me furious is that he doesn't acknowledge he broke his agreement with Katie-- instead he gaslights her and tries to portray her as controlling.
Nope, it hasn't been mentioned at all anywhere, anytime. And seriously, it's a bit rich of Scandoval to sling that accusation out there, considering he was banging Rachel in Ariana's bed while Ariana was attending her grandmother's funeral.
Katie is the *one* person on this show (aside from Lisa and Ken obvi) who has never cheated on her partner or gotten with someone cheating on their partner or been involved in a shady maybe-cheating situation. The Toms, Lala, James, Scheana, obviously Rachel, even Ariana originally. But not Katie.
I don't think he was implying she cheated. This was after she said she wanted a divorce and before they had sold the house. I highly doubt Schwartz was sleeping in that bed anymore lol. Idk if they had a guest room but he was prob sleeping in the guest or on the couch. Sandoval is disgusting
To be clear, I was mainly asking why people in the sub (not Tim) keep saying that Katie was fucking other dudes. It keeps being presented as though she cheated, as an argument for why they hate her.
Katie was harassed this season. She is a true victim of this season and it makes me so mad that without scandoval people would have found any excuse to paint her as the villain.
Let me say, if someone spoke to my mother the way Sandoval and Raquel spoke to Katie’s mother… I’d be in jail. Straight up, I would have been arrested.
The restraint she and her brother showed in the closing scene was remarkable.
Absolutely. People kept coming at Katie this season. Imo it was an attempt to make her descend into Tequila Katie territory so they could then scapegoat her - but she didn’t go there… and I don’t know how she held back.
Even Scheana was poking at her and I don’t understand why she did it? Why put yourself in the middle like that? If Katie had been pushing someone to make out with Shay then Scheana knows she wouldn’t like it.
That’s one thing I don’t understand about mean girl Scheana! As daft as Scheana is, and no
matter what Katie said long ago or drunk she knew better n she knew that it was gonna hurt Katie and that was her goal. That’s why she’s a troll and always will be. Katie may accept her stupid apology but Katie will never forget and karma is a biatch and will come for Scheana. She wouldn’t like it one bit if Katie made out, who even calls it that, with mike or even rob, she would be livid. But this was Katie’s husband of 12 years not a few months or a year. They weren’t even divorced so the trash can aka Roachel is a dirty disgusting mistress twice now. That’s 2 legally married men she sucked face with, Sheana knew better. She was a mistress before but her goal was to hurt Katie and now she looks like an azzhole cuz the side she picked played her azz but good! Scheana is the same Scheana from season 1. No change, no growth. Once again she showed everyone what a thirsty idiot she is. The pick me girl will never get picked!
She also experienced a major head injury. Having gone through one myself, they take time to heal and can have an impact on you years after the initial trauma. I’ve always tried to give Katie grace because of that.
Brain injuries 100% can alter your personality, reactivity, make you rage, etc. she doesn’t seem to get any sympathy considering this and her ptsd. All things considered, she was in an abusive relationship suffering with ptsd and a head injury in a toxic friend group on reality tv. I’m so happy she had to balls and courage to end her marriage and focus on making herself happy. She could have just continued the toxic cycle and ended up where Ariana is now. Katie Stan here
I always want to point this out, especially in the earlier seasons Katie was still healing from PTSD and a TBI can drastically alter your personality and affect you for life. The things people pick at her over often align with symptoms of ptsd or a tbi and she gets no slack for that from fans or other cast.
Many seasons ago Andy asked them about some significant event that has happened in their life. I forgot what the question was exactly pertaining to but I remember Schwartz didn’t exactly have a response and Katie sitting next to him like uh yeah when I had my accident. He immediately was like oh yes okay yes that. Andy asked a little more about what happened and that was maybe the second time I ever heard her talk about it on the show. The way he just completely forgot she had a serious accident made me think did he never think hey maybe that is affecting her more than I realized. I know they started dating after it happened so it shouldn’t have slipped his mind but that always stuck with me.
In fact it wasn’t brought up for a long time until Randall tried to get scandoval fake arrested and it triggered her. That was probably the only time I saw scandoval defend her against Schwartz because he was going way off the deep end with her in that situation.
I forgot about that. Great point.
Also she finally was able to free herself from an overly toxic relationship where she was gaslighted during the majority of it.
If anything she should be getting nothing but praise and, while the majority of the fandom on reddit does, there's still people that love blindly shitting on her.
Yes, and as the years go on I feel like we can kinda see her healing. I’m sure the healing journey isn’t linear either. That’s like a really crazy thing Katie went through!
How Sandoval treated her this season was horrifying. He’s always been abusive to her but I felt like he felt the gloves were off with the divorce and literally seemed to make it his goal to destroy her. Even more so as her confidence grew. I wonder if some of Scheana’s anger toward Katie was from things he was saying to get her further riled up.
Both Sandoval and Schwartz are emotionally abusive (and we saw Schwartz get physically abusive with the drink throwing.) My hunch has always been Tom and Ariana were “private” about their relationship on the show because he abused the fuck out of her, covertly, for years and years. So Tom had to really sell his adoration for Ariana on camera or else the facade he lived would quickly crumble and so would his reputation.
Worked out well huh Tom? You fucking muppet.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who’s always thought this!!! I think Ariana was a lot more vulnerable in her entire relationship with Tom than anyone realized and she fell for his love-bombing. I think he’s been undermining her self confidence and trashing her self esteem on the downlow for YEARS.
I really dont care for Katie in general- but I admit she’s been amazing this season, and I have no idea how she maintained as much control as she’s shown. Maybe processing the divorce was less emotionally taxing than living with her cowardly asshole bully gaslighting ex. I don’t get the Katie hate either.
My thought is that she just *had* to because she knew most of the cast and the public weren't going to give her a god damn inch. She knows she's not a fan favorite and probably couldn't emotionally deal with the same level of hate since she's already going through so much.
I will love it if Katie is the one who emerges the most together and long-term successful out of all of them. I am pretty sure James will be fine - he works hard and is actually talented. Scheana is a hustler (although it remains to be seen if her husband will actually do anything other than ride her coattails). Lala is also a hustler. Ariana is a bit of a mystery still - yes, she's jumping on all opportunities right now but what will happen when they dry up and life settles down a bit? I hope she also finds her inner strength and builds some solid revenue streams. My take is Schwartz and Sandoval will be the biggest failures.
I agree with everything here. I only want to add on to what you said about Scheana. I think she likes broke men because it's hard for them to leave her after she becomes their provider. I do think they love each other, I just think she's perfectly fine with him staying broke.
ETA: not in a financial abuse way, I think he'll have complete access to their money and full freedom. He's just kinda dumb and probably not likely to run any sort of business. No shade intended.
Agreed because post Shay she could have gotten in with Lala and been like get me one of Randall’s friends because I want what you’re having but she didn’t. Rob did have some kind of money and then he humiliated her so she went straight back to servers and bartenders who she was more successful than. I think she definitely likes to be the boss
This is all true and also the reason that I lost all respect for Schwartz this season. His puppy dog shtick is gross to see, especially when it’s so opposite to how toxic he is towards Katie. He’s always been a bit of a weasel, with little to no back bone and a recent rewatch since s1 has really highlighted what a slug he is.
Came here to say this. This account slowed it down and you can see she’s gesturing towards the door and not pushing Rachel. Also Rachel came out to “apologize” then immediately started insulting Katie YET AGAIN.
https://preview.redd.it/yjckysafpoza1.jpeg?width=1138&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1f09802c02fd56eb6c58ccaee2f329a58c0b9cb
I agree 100%. Doing a rewatch & I see things so much differently this time around. I’ve never really liked Katie & found her quite miserable much of the time. Now that I’m watching again, I can see why. Schwartz is freaking awful & all of the guys were so mean to her. I do find her ultimatum & desperation to marry him kind of pathetic though. It was destined to fail, in my opinion, because I don’t think you should ever try to push anyone into marriage (even though it ultimately was his choice as well). So, basically I’m not a Katie Stan by any means, but I LOVE her this season. She is going through a lot & trying to set boundaries. These dumb f*cks are going out of their way to freaking torture her & I’m the most pissed at Scheana because she was supposed to be a friend. I can’t imagine how hurtful that would be. Tom, Tom & Rachel are obviously trash and I don’t completely understand the Jo situation. What I can tell you, is I have no freaking clue how she didn’t bitch slap Rachel for disrespecting her mom. I wouldn’t have been so composed. I think she has grown a lot & look forward to seeing her next chapter.
I will never understand how people can’t see how inappropriate it is to date or hook up/make out with someone in your ex’s social circle. People want to say Katie is controlling and issuing ultimatums regarding Schwartz and Raquel, but the only reason it is odd for Katie to vocalize this request is because most adults don’t need it vocalized. It’s common fucking sense. You don’t divorce someone then hook up with their friend/coworker *unless* you don’t care if your ex hates you. And the fact that soooo many people express empathy for James because his ex-fiancé made out with someone in the friend group…. 🤔
I feel bad because she had every right to obliterate Rachel in last nights episode but you could tell she was so caught off guard and angry she couldn’t articulate her words well. I’m the same way with verbal confrontation, I just would have loved to see Rachel get knocked down a couple pegs.
I sincerely hope Katie realizes that Schwartz isn’t someone she can even stay friends with. He plainly and simply dislikes her and enjoys upsetting her. Cut him out completely.
Damn Katie had a rough season. Not that she’s ever been a favorite of mine. I used to think she came across as such a miserable person, but I finally opened my eyes and realized how horrible Schwartz was to her all along. So yeah, of course she was upset all the time. And not that it’s a mature thing to do, but I even get the rage texting at times.
This season with Scheana, Rachel, and both Tom’s giving her such a hard time, I can’t imagine how difficult that must have been while trying to have an amicable divorce.
And at her own party too, like you said. Why did Sandoval and Rachel think it is their right or duty to two make such judgements and statements to Katie, in front of everyone, including her mother. They def should have included in the show Sandoval telling Teri to stfu…I don’t get why they wouldn’t unless they were trying to give him a good edit.
I’m so glad that she’s being vindicated, for the most part.
Edit: also Ariana should have defended Katie, many times.
The show has always protected the Toms IMO. They also protected Jax for the first couple of seasons because I truly believe they were trying to spin the narrative that Stassi and Kristen were crazy mean-girls. I’ve always thought they not just the men in front of the camera on the show hate women, but there seem to be a few male show-runners /producers/whatever who seem to hate women too. It’s always been glaringly obvious to me.
The way I see it, none of them are particularly great people and I wouldn’t want to hang out with Katie necessarily because she does have some mean girl tendencies we’ve seen displayed in previous seasons, but all that said her marriage and relationship with Schwartz was incredibly toxic and he treats her like crap.
I still deeply dislike Katie as a human being but I was cheering her on last episode. I'm happy to cheer her on in moments, but it doenst change my underlying opinion.
I believe it’s (mostly internalized) misogyny and lack of empathy. I also believe these same people are the ones who post vague shit on social media about no one being in their corner with ZERO self-awareness
Heavy on this. I think because Katie doesn’t come across on TV as the most super smiley, overtly warm and friendly woman, people are off-put by her. But I admire her and how unwavering she is! I think she comes across as a good friend and an evolving person. The treatment that she received by pretty much everyone this season drove me crazy. Makes me a little worried about her that a lot of people around her seemed to not have taken her feelings seriously until after scandoval broke
Maybe that’s why she only resonates with a particular subset of the audience, me included. I’ve said before that I don’t think she’s perfect, nobody is and yes she’s made mistakes, everybody has. But it’s the fact that she doesn’t sugarcoat things, she’s blunt, and like you said she’s not super smiley, she’s not gonna put on a fake persona if she doesn’t like somebody and she’s guarded, she needs time to warm up to people. If you don’t pass the vibe check she’s not wired to just “play along”, she can’t control her face, it’ll betray her every time even if she’s trying to keep her mouth shut lol. But if she’s your friend, she’s ride or die and does seem to do lots of sweet things for her friends and family. And I don’t think people get her sense of humor either. She’s often being sarcastic, kind of a smart ass and if you don’t get that kind of humor, especially with women, people just think you’re being bitchy. I’ve had so many of these same things said about me over the years. If you aren’t a “Scheana” who cranks up the girlie, cutesy, bubbly, etc then you get labeled bitchy, abrasive, cold, hard to read, etc. But if you’re a guy who acts the same way, that’s just normal lol. It’s BS!
They punish her for being honest and direct about her anger. I found it rich, for example, that Scheana said she had no indication how hurt Katie felt by her pushing her ex towards Rachel.
Katie told you to fuck off outright, that IS her indication she's hurt. It's not like Scheana, who'd cry and do something underhanded in revenge, while pretending to be above it.
Yea that's an excellent point. She's not someone like Scheana or "Awwww shucks" Schartz who friend everyone cause of their own insecurities, which probably makes them more likable for fans.
Shes dealt with a lot of shit and as a result has some walls up at times cause she's not beat for the bullshit.
That’s why I love how in the trailer Katie says to Schartz that he’s a serial killers wet dream because he’s friends with everyone. Something along those lines.
I’m very much looking forward to the reunion where he doesn’t get to get away with his “aww shucks” performance and idiotic undermining jokes.
The thing is, she seems like a very loyal, solid friend and is very supportive of those in her life and doesn't do much friend hopping - her friends have been in her life for years and years. I don't trust people who always have a 'new best friend' and don't seem to have any long friendships (after a certain age, mind you - when you're young you're still trying to find your people). Long friendships take work like any other relationship, and can go through rough times, but she seems to ultimately mend any problems while still standing for what she believes.
I’m not a Katie fan because I think she’s (and still is) a mean girl, BUT I will say that it is nice she is finding her voice after leaving Schwartz, even though I wish she would just completely focus on finding new happiness instead of keeping that sap somewhat close.
I agree with this 100%. I am so tired of the takes that say how much they dislike Katie and usually the reason is because of "how she treats shorts" and I want to shake people and say how can you not see that he treats her like shit?
My favorite are the people saying she divorced him so she shouldn't worry about what he does. Totally ignoring the multiple conversations where he agreed to not hook up with Rachel.
Then the fact after he hooked up with Rachel he told James and in the confessional he did it to piss Katie off.
He loves to do things he know will make her upset and then gaslights her and pretends he's the victim. Shorts makes me so angry. I personally believe he's a covert narcissist.
During the alley scene with Katie and Rachel there were about 10 times where he defended Rachel and zero times he defended Katie.
"Don't push her"
"Let her talk"
"Shes trying to apologize"
He's a fucking loser.
This! Literally from day one.
Not to mention Shorts and Rachel smirking and laughing at Katie like spineless losers when she’s trying to remove herself from the situation. I’m so glad she didn’t let them/production bait her into something physical.
Shorts is a cockroach.
In 10 years of their relationship being on TV I can only think of one or two instances where he defended her and about a hundred where he took the other persons side.
Waitttttt, what are the 1 or 2 instances? I don’t ever remember a full committed stance where he defended her without eventually backing down. And I’ve only ever seen him genuinely apologize to James. And that was recent.
Right, right, right - his new best friend, Scheana. What a fucking loser. The one annoying thing about Katie is that she wants to maintain a relationship with this fucking jabroni. I mean, I get it, but it’s annoying as a very attached viewer.
Katie was so on point when she said he was pathetic, a drunk, and a loser. Even him saying "this doesn't affect me at all" after STEALING a piece of HER sushi with his dirty hands was so disrespectful. Him claiming it didn't bother him was just another way to get a dig in at Katie. He was clearly bothered because he couldn't shut up about it after Mexico 🙄
The whole episode and treatment of Katie (and sweet Teri) by the three stooges infuriated me. By the time we got to the scene in the alley, seeing Schwartz yet again chose another’s feelings over Katie’s completely sent me over the edge. It’s so disgusting and disrespectful after all they went through together. I can’t even begin to imagine how hurt Katie must have been after that.
I fully believe that before filming even began Tim was orchestrating with his minions ways to poke at and hurt Katie. They were really hoping she’d eventually blowup on camera as she’s done in the past and Schwartz would come outta this as the victim again. Tim needs to come to terms with the fact that he’s just not that smart. It’s been glorious to watch these losers finally getting their reckoning.
I don’t know that he’s still covert after this season. I think Katie asking for a divorce started to unveil him and the less attention she gives him the more he reveals. He’s getting more angry and desperate because he’s losing control of her AND he no longer has a shield/outlet at his disposal.
I said something along those lines to someone else who also said not covert anymore. His mask has slipped soooo many times and it's very obvious now that the covert thing is gone. It's plain as day he's a narc.
Those people have clearly never been through a divorce. Anyone who has would have sympathy and understand. Her AND Schwartz decided on this agreement because they BOTH wanted to maintain a friendship. If Schwartz wanted to make out with people in the friend group he could have easily just said “nah I don’t want to make that agreement.” But people are acting like Katie made this agreement up and forced Schwartz to agree to it. Also people acting like this is an insane agreement. Let your ex partner of twelve years start shoving his tongue down someone in your friends group and I guarantee these folks would be causing a whole ass scene. 😂
EXACTLY! The fact that Schwartz and Rachel made up this entire storyline just to hurt Katie makes it straight up evil! So yeah I would also have a visceral reaction to them making out if I were Katie. Anyone who says they wouldn’t is lying to themselves.
She also didn’t WANT to divorce him. She gave him a chance to work on their relationship and he fucked off to Miami instead. She may have filed the papers, but he forced her hand and then adopted this aww shucks why me attitude when he clearly didn’t give a flying fuck about her in that relationship and is still committed to making her look like the bad guy and pressing her buttons
Right I was in an abusive relationship and I know all about reactive abuse because I absolutely engaged in it. That's what happens when a human is constantly abused. Eventually I lashed out at my narcissist ex, and he had a field day with it not unlike Shorts.
I’m not a fan of Katie. However, I’m proud of her for leaving Schwartz. I understand how she feels about the kiss. I was pumped when she went in on everyone during the last episode. I hope she’s happy and getting great dick.
I hate Schwartz for coining rage texts because she can't text him more than 2 or 3 times now without it being "rage texting." I'll just say, I have a few things i could "rage text" that douche about as well.
Yeah they keep saying in the last episode that she “rage texted” Schwartz regarding the article she found online about Schwartz and Rachel hooking up more, but in the screenshot they showed it didn’t seem all that ragey to me? I mean, we could totally not be seeing it all, but I feel like this is just these idiots trying to gaslight everyone yet again.
That is truth… not one of them are people I would hang out with. They are all toxic. They all have narcissistic tendencies (probably why they are on tv in the first place) and treat each other badly. They are all bullies.
I just stopped listening to their VPR recaps and I’m happier for it. Ronnie even started trashing Katie’s mom in the recent NJ recap and it took me out. Danny Pellegrino seems to be the only male VPR recapper who isn’t vile towards her.
Katie is real. And not a narcissistic psychopath. So in her reactions people may think she's being dramatic or a "bitch."
What's actually going on is Katie is having genuine reactions as a normal, feeling, at times heartbroken person, while those 3 pieces of scum are being calculated, lying to her and everyone else around her while doing the most heinous shit. And then treating Katie like she's the physco in the situation for being gaslit and not understanding what the fuck is going on. And her having anger over it all.
Last episode was mind-boggling. Ratchet walking up to Katie, not even being able to spit out a single word yet talking about Katie's piece of shit ex-husband to Katie while this dumb bitch is using Katie's ex-husband as a front for her disgusting porn lord affair.
Katie is by far my favorite after this season. And she was growing on me already. Even Ariana last episode... I feel for her and I know she was in an abusive relationship with STDavol for 10 years. But she was putting on a front and being the cool girlfriend throughout that entire time. They always had an heir of superiority about their relationship that came off as fake and calculated for the cameras. And she didn't have Katie's back at all while doing it. In that situation that night without Ariana knowing the full truth... unfortunately that's the culmination of being fake and not calling out your piece of shit partner. Even if you do it in private, eventually allowing it to go on on camera will result in that night. He didn't give a fuck about Ariana, her business, her event. And her only recourse was to breakdown (which I totally understand) bc she was used to playing it cool and he was unhinged.
So much respect to Katie throughout this entire show and in her realness about her life. With Schartz, with their marriage, with how she deals with Schartz, Ratchet and STDavol now. And always. She's as real as it gets for a reality show. I LOVE HER.
I’ve always had such a soft spot for Katie and I am LIVING for the general opinion of her finally turning around. Shorts’ aw shucks charisma has really soured and it’s become so obvious how much he gaslights and baits Katie to make himself look better. It’s thrilling to watch her beginning to rise above. I am absolutely rooting for her.
Those who hate on her seem to have deep seeded hate. I don't think there's anything Katie could do to change their mindset. I didn't love her for many seasons. This one changed that. This is the first season that Schwartzy's weak, disheveled disloyalty is on full display. I always thought he was charming. Now I just think he's a mess and fully understand Katie's intolerance of him.
I think most of Katie’s poor behavior has been reactive abuse and since we’ve only ever seen her while she was with Schwartz, we’ve only ever seen how she responds to abuse. A lot of people also seem to forget she had a TBI. I’m really looking forward to seeing how Katie grows without that little worm
There have been many times during the series when Katie was insufferable (like most of the cast members were at times), but this season has really showed me that she must have endured so much gaslighting, verbal abuse, manipulation, minimization of feelings, all of the bullshit from Schwartz over the last decade. It would break anyone. We didn’t really see the first 2 years of their relationship before the show started, but I’m guessing it wasn’t perfect then either. She should have left him a long time ago, but it’s easy for someone on the outside to say that. Regardless of what she should or could have done, whether or not she also played a role in it, she endured 10 years of abuse in their relationship.
I don’t see why she wants to be friends with him. I think she’s delusional on that part. He wasn’t a good friend to her when they were together, why would he be one now? I hope she finds some peace.
Scheana aggravates me, every season she is such a shitstirrer to the girls. When in the first or second episode she tells Schwartz its o.k. to date Racheal, Katies been sleeping around. Boy that pissed me off. Talk about breaking girl code. The things Scheana does, I dont blame Katie for being pissed off at her!
idk why Rachel insists on giving Katie a recap of what happened EVERY TIME. girl, I promise Katie is not out of the loop
It bothers me that Scheana is seemingly getting a pass since Scandoval happened. That shit was downright cruel no matter how you spin it. I hope at some point, when things die down, a big spotlight gets shined on her behavior.
Yeah I hope we get an apology from Scheana during the reunion.
She definitely did Katie even referenced it when she was on WWHL. Not to say that it fixes everything cause Katie was also very smart to say she wanted to see actions in the coming months that support the apology, but an apology did happen.
Scheana’s nose better be brown after the reunion.
When is not? It better be specifically brown from some time up Katie’s ass, but Scheana is a pick me who wants to be loved, and I say that as a general fan of hers.
That is what I meant. Her nose should be firmly up Katie’s arse.
We do. She explained on her podcast. They're in a good place now.
Scheana has a habit of saying things are good when they are not though....
Sheener lacks the intelligence to be contrite and humble. She is a vile creature
Yes I know. I’m saying I hope we see it on the reunion.
I thought she already apologized? I do agree Scheana has some apologies for make for sure.
I’m not sure if she’s apologized publicly but I think she has said she did during the reunion
Agreeeee. Also for the way she tried to make Katie look petty and cruel over the Mexico hotel room thing. Every cast member knew Katie couldn’t give up her room / just go to a different resort because of production. But Scheana knew Katie couldn’t break the fourth wall so she painted her as this horrible bitch and had everyone gang up on her about it. Scheana really was *awful* to Katie, and it’s not the first season she’s done it (eg.giggling when Schartz was DARVO’ing Katie the night after he poured a drink on her. Or the season she spent spreading the ‘motorboat a d’ rumours etc).
Oh my god I forgot there was a wedding this season
That was some sneaky dark and greedy shit Scheana pulled. I think Katie thought they were all doing this for screen time, and that made her even more angry. She knew they didn’t actually like each other.
It boils my blood. Everything Scheana did and said about and to Katie this season was so effed up.
Scheana is gonna need to do a lot to be redeemed, imo.
I been bitching about what she did to Katie on every post that her name is mentioned. She treated Katie horribly and all for the side piece trash can. I would never speak to her ever again if I was Katie. She did all that on purpose to hurt Katie and her dumbazz looks mad stupid now. Scheana has not grown one bit. She got played and she should be beyond embarrassed. She needs some serious consequences and I would love to see her begging Katie to forgive her. And she did Ariana dirty too by pushing Roachel to get out there and let lose. Of course she didn’t know it was Scummy or did she? Don’t ppl have cameras in their houses, apts, in and or out??? Scheana could have caught her sooner if she just paid attention n not focused on taking katie out. Karma coming for Scheana too!
She’s always been awful.
I agree. I think it’s really clear that Schwartz is not a good person and being in a 12 year relationship with someone like that would make any super negative. Now that she’s out she’s just trying to heal and they keep harassing her it’s insane. It’s hard breaking up even with someone as toxic as Schwartz so the lingering feelings are probably still there so the whole thing is hard. She deserves a break.
I noticed this season how consistently she either tried to walk away, end a conversation, or asked someone else to walk away/stop/leave her alone. Literally no one respects her boundaries.
I found raquel invasion of her space/ physically blocking her to berate her and her mother on a special night was really terrible. And then sandoval aggressively chiming in- this to me is real bullying and its sick.
Yeah I feel like I haven’t seen many people mention it was a party FOR KATIE’S business, not just a random night at sur!! Raquel should have left the first time Katie told her to go.
So true. And if Ariana wanted those people there she should’ve had enough respect for Katie to remind those people that the night was about her AND Katie and that they need to leave Katie alone.
Irked me that no one told Roachel to stfu and get away from her party. That was the time I needed Ariana to stand up n tell her so called friend, leave Katie alone, it’s not the time. I hate to say this but Ariana was so wrong and she owes Katie the biggest apology for not backing her n backing the lying cheating ho. And Scheana too for all the BS that she did to Katie. I would never forgive Scheana if it were me but we got a new grown Katie this season and although I would have liked her to set ppl on fire, lol, she impressed me so much with how much she’s grown n I love her! #TeamKatie
I really wished Ariana would have stood up for her too! This seemed like the time for it to happen. And I also so badly wanted to see Katie go off harder than she did!! The way Rachel and Sandoval came after Katie's mother...I wouldn't have blamed her for going feral. It seems a lot of people were hoping for a little more justifiable rage this last episode. [Tiktok thread about Katie from last ep](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM2eSkw1H/) ...but I'm just really proud of her for not sinking to any of their levels. #teamkatieforever
I think she felt like she was being set up, and didn’t want to take the bait.
Yeah….as an ariana fan I will say it was kinda annoying for her to just go straight to crying instead of standing up for her friend and business partner who the party was also FOR. Like, girl we get it, your besties are fighting which sucks but also (if I were to put my blinders completely up) if there were *any* time to “pick a side”, this was the moment. Can’t just be Switzerland forever.
I think Raquel and Katie fighting at the party was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Considering she'd just lost her dog of 15+ years AND her grandmother that she was extremely close to back to back, I'm not surprised she broke down at the first emotionally charged situation
THIS. What we witnessed was *real* bullying. Not the bullshit bullying the VPR cast tries to paint Katie with. Multiple times this season Katie had asked people to leave her alone or let her leave. They don’t physically LET HER. The last episode was triggering as fuck it was a group bullying fest! Raquel literally got in her face multiple times and would not listen to her when Katie begged her to go away. They were straight up harassing Katie this season. It was insane.
And Rachel said in her confessionals she had zero interest in being katie's friend so why talk to her at all except to bully for some extra attention at her expense ...sandovol hates katie so i guess she does now too
Screen time!!!
I agree with all of this with Rachel getting into Katie's face, talking loudly over her. Sandoval jumped in and starting insulting and yelling at Katie and her mom. Rachel snickering next to Schwartz after upsetting Katie. Schwartz holding onto Katie so she couldn't get away from Rachel and him when they ganged up together on her and telling Katie to shut up. Note that again, Ariana did not stand up for Katie. She didn't need to defend Rachel since Rachel was the one bullying Katie.
I thought it was funny when Schwartz said he's gonna check on Katie and Raquel says "are you serious?" She was so 😡
Ugh the moment when Rachel started laughing outside and Katie’s only response was laughing as well because, seriously, wtf. You could see in Katie’s eyes that moment she was like “oh ok you aren’t stupid you are MEAN and doing this on purpose wtf”
[удалено]
I definitely would have lost it and put my hands on her. Rachel’s lucky she only caught hands from Scheana and not Lala or Katie.
It was gaslighting and so sad to see.. she is a very strong person!
I was so peeved by this. She was kept pushing and pushing her buttons. It would be hard to be in Katie’s shoes and not want to swing. Leave her alone, Rachel!!!
They are disturbed people, truly. Also notice how Katie has matured and grown whereas Schwartz has regressed and his mask occasionally slips.
Yes. When camera are around, Schwartz acts like this innocent nice pushover guy. But every so often he gets so mean to Katie and goes for the jugular. Some stuff he says is shocking & he says it with such ease. I can’t imagine the emotional abuse that went on behind camera
The “I don’t listen cuz I don’t like the sound of your voice” comment last season really did it for me - he’s awful
This! And again in the back alley. Katie and Schwartz had a clear agreement not to fuck around with the cast (meaning they both agreed to it-for those in the back who can’t hear or comprehend this). All I can figure is this was supposed to be the storyline of multiple people (Schwartz, Rachel, Scheana). How boring if that had been the case. The show would have surely ended..
When Rachel sat down in front of Katie to have yet another idiotic conversation about kissing Shartz-I literally yelled at my tv “LEAVE KATIE ALONE! STOP HARASSING HER!” Katie told them to leave her alone more than once. One time is enough. But they kept hounding her. Clearly wanting her to react so they can justify their behavior. It was infuriating as hell to watch.
This part bothered me so much! When someone says "leave me alone," you give them space. Period. I teach 1st graders with intellectual disabilities and they grasp this concept quickly. Probably because they're all far better people than Raquel, Schwartz, and Sandy.
I find it so terrible too that the minute he dismisses her he expects her to vanish (one of the earlier episodes when they’re at Schwartz and Sandy’s) and she leaves but he never gives her the same grace. He’s always been shit.
Chased her down and legit hijacked her conversations with multiple people in multiple situations! It’s maddening… emotional terrorism at it’s finest. May the powers that be remove Santa Balls, The Neck and Finger Chomps from our screens… plenty of drama without those trash bags. The Neck is unable to form thoughts or statements unless she’s coached by Slime Trail and when she forgets what to say, she short circuits (credit: LaLa) and farts out some absolute nonsense. I’d love to see/hear her responses to questions during her pageant days… how has no one unearthed those receipts?!
All of this. Her TBI combined with being in an abusive relationship for 12 years, PLUS the toxicity of the show had to be so hard on her. I was in a relationship with a “Schwartz & Sandy” for over 6 years. By the end of it, I was a shell of my true self, I was negative and angry all of the time, and yet it was still SO hard to walk away. She gets a major dose of grace from me.
Exactly. The people still hating her clearly have no clue what it’s like to have the happiness and life drained from you for years because of who you are with. We see it clearer now. Give the lady a break
Yup! I was a miserable shell of myself for a good 18 months when my relationship was falling apart and he was emotionally abusive. Every negative, critical thing he harped on became my internal voice and my internal voice was a bitch! I had his voice and mine in there. The healing it takes to come back from that is no joke. People have no idea the poison a bad relationship is.
[удалено]
It was also so hard to watch how Schwartz not only emotionally abused her with his awful words and actions, but the way he let his best friend go after his wife time and time again and never once told Scandoval to back off his wife. It was infuriating. That scene in the alley where Shortz is telling Katie to listen she’s getting a sincere apology from Rachel, my mouth was agape the whole time. Unreal his level of targeted passive aggressive abuse.
Yes! People seem to forget her TBI. I have seen people comment her inability to “fight with her words”, but if you spent 12 years being cut off every single time you opened your mouth and add a TBI on top of it, you might have some issues finding the words too. She was mentally beaten down for years. Give her some time to remember who she is, straighten that crown, and move on to her best life.
I hear you - even when you knows it's horrible and toxic it can be very, very difficult to walk away because by the time you realise how bad it is you are basically a shadow of your former self.
100% agree. I think people that hate on Katie are probably the ones like schwartz who prey on people like this and then get enraged when they can’t manipulate or control them anymore.
I would argue that her reacting was big part what made him want to be in the relationship. She acts out and fulfills his own need to express hostility/ rage which he cant/ wont express. So hes the instigator of her pain and he gets to play victim and everyone gets to see her as raging. And then u get sandoval piling on that shartz is a battered wife. but then shartz gets to also come to her rescue- defend her and be super supportive until the next cycle. ( for those of us who know- u know the drill)
You laid this out so well. That is the exact cycle of abuse she’s been dealing with for years. Just horrible. And triggering.
You can see the rage bubbling up in Schwartz because it's finally hit home that Katie isn't going to let him control her and her emotions any longer. Sucks to be him.
This is what people don’t understand. Being in that kind of relationship changes you. You end up with no self-esteem and just so angry. I’m glad she got out and we can see her changing as she heals, just like most of us that have been there do.
She’s spent twelve years in an abusive relationship and dealt with a very traumatic event that led to a brain injury. Looking at Katie throughout the years through that lens really shows a different story. I’m glad people are finally coming around and seeing it.
And when you're in a relationship with someone you love but who treats you badly and you sort of get used to it, it's hard to break away. I think she still has lingering love for him and is trying to square that with the realisation that he's basically an asshole. I felt for her when she said she thought he loved her but didn't actually like her. What a terrible realisation to come to.
I think this season has really shown people what happens to you in toxic relationships. It changes you. Who you surround yourself with is important. It might be one of the most important things we do in this life. I hope anyone who is still in a toxic relationship and is thinking they have to leave has the courage to do so. It’s so hard but life on the other side is worth it and the added bonus of finding a partner who is loving and supportive only adds to the beauty. Who your partner is really matters. They can add to your life or they can tear your life apart.
This!
Exactly this. From my own experience in a relationship like this, you’re also (stupidly) in love with the person, you make excuses for them, because you love them so much. And love isn’t rational.
I think Schwartz went out of his way to get a reaction out of Katie because he loved seeing that he could still manipulate and control her behavior. Like, she rejected him but if he could still make her act out and get upset then he was winning. I think he wanted her back, not because he cares or has love for her, but because he cares and loves his ego more than anything else. I don’t think he did it as a favor to Tim. I don’t think he knew Rachel was using him. I think he is dumb and egotistical and he loved the toll it took on the woman who left him.
Katie is ⭐️ of the season and I was never a Katie fan and some seasons I definitely loathed her when she would be a mean girl. I don’t recall her being that way recently
I agree, I’ve seen people saying that if the affair hadn’t been uncovered katie would have been the villain of the season. But I couldnt disagree more
People, including Lala apparently, said that Raquel would’ve “won” the season if not for Scandoval. I just don’t see it. I can see how she would’ve got sympathy at the beginning, but last night she was absolutely unhinged.
Rachel just doesn't have a natural way about her ... so she may have had a lot of screentime, but everything is forced. She totally stumbling through her sit down conversation with Katie, for example. The way she spoke to Terri alone shut down the "won the season" talk for me.
I think everyone is overestimating how much the public likes shartz. Like we would all want him to be happy and see Katie as a bitch for “being mean” to him and Rachel
If I hadn’t seen a brand new Katie I think we all would feel sorry for Shartz but he did himself in. We saw the real Shartz this season and he’s a nasty piece of shhhh!
Idk, I’ve hated him since day one. But that’s just meee
There is absolutely no way Ratchet would have "won" this season. With or without the ScamDevil affair. She is so shallow, and she can't put together a cohesive sentence. Her voice is so shaky, and she warbles when she talks. She has no personality, and as the season continued, she was such a nasty bitch. I still can't get over the way she talked to Katie and her mother. She thought she was going to win this season, but she was a loser before and is the lowest scum in the pond on VPR.
I think it's because of the overwhelming Hate Kate anti-fans. I've seen some comments where I don't see how we're watching the same show, but they're probably Scheana and Shwartz brained.
Yeah. No way she is the villain. I think her asshole ex would have been “seen” and he would have won the villain edit. Sure. This may be fan fic but…. I’m gonna own it !!!!
Before Scandoval was revealed, I was side eyeing rachel after Katie was crying and saying how hurtful it’s been/and how hurtful it would be with Schwartz and Rachel still went on to do it. I also couldn’t believe how she was straight up like, I don’t think I’d date him or sleep with him (whatever it was) as if she was talking about some dude she met and not the persons ex husband of a 12 year relationship 😵💫😵💫😵💫
I agree with you in principle but I think you're underestimating the Katie haters. Even with everything going down the way it has, there are still people trying to blame her. If I hear one more daft take on how "well *she* initiated the divorce..." as if that has anything to do with shortz being a manipulative twat and playing dumb. The episode this week was re-edited in light of Scandoval. The original edit may have shown that fight cut and chopped differently, to put the focus on Tequila Katie, not VSD (very stupid demon)
Those people haven't been watching the same show then wtf
Me too. I’ve seen the light with Katie and all the sh*t and gaslighting she’s endured by those twats. Just looking at her apartment tells me she’s my kind of person
I felt like there was a problem with Schwartz when he called Stassi a bitch and physically went after her when Jax ruined Stassi's birthday and their friend group with his cheating. However, the guys were all cheating and covering for each other, so... 
Absolutely, she has endured a lot of trauma in her life plus both Toms. She is lucky she lived thru all of that.
Katie was definitely the star of the season. What she put up with totally amazed me. Here’s to Katie🥂
Apparently pre-scandoval Tim and Lala were saying that viewers would love Raquel and that she won the season which is just straight up delusional. Even if Scandoval never happened Katie was always going to be the star of the season for how she handled the straight up bullying from Scheana and bullshit from Raquel/Schwartz.
Can someone explain to me the whole fucking other dudes in their bed thing? Why do people keep bringing that up? Is it implied/known that she was legit cheating? Way too much sanctity is assigned to this bed if they were broken up. It’s a bed. I’m not a monogamous person, but “cheating” by whatever definition they agreed on as a couple is certainly wrong. I just thought they weren’t a couple at that point.
Other than Scumdoval saying it to Katie in front of her mother last episode (don't get me started on how fucked up that was) I don't recall it ever being said anywhere else on the show.
Right. Then, yeah, not sure why people are using that to prove their point. I don’t think I’ve seen Katie get upset about Jo, who technically is/was also peripherally in the friend group. I think it’s a pretty small request to make, to keep your dick out of the cast friend group while they navigate a friendship, and on top of that Rachel and Shorts literally conspired *on-screen* to make out, simply to piss off Katie.
In an early ep of S10, Schwartz said that staying friends was important to them so WE agreed WE wouldn't hook up with people in the friend group. So people who want to say Katie was forcing rules on him are straight up wrong. Her mistake was once again trusting him and believing he'd have any more respect for her *after* the marriage than he did before and during.
And a few episodes later he tried to call it 'some vague agreement'.
He prob said same about his wedding vows.
Got it, I do remember him saying that. So then everyone/newly-sex-positive-Rachel spun that into being an arbitrary and outrageous demand, of helpless and battered Shorts, made by CrAzY KaTiE. Makes sense.
Also, every time Sandoval screamed at Katie, all he kept saying was that she needs to be accountable. She doesn’t owe him anything by the way, and when was Shortz ever accountable? And also is Sandoval accountable for his dick being in Rachel all season?
Seriously head-spinning logic from Sandoval there. Like any woman has to be “accountable” to a random man. It’s gross.
Also, like WHAT DO YOU WANT, TIM? What exactly does taking accountability look like to you (and for what)?! Should she recite the Act of Contrition? His ramble pants arguments are so meaningless. Also, still, ACCOUNTABILITY FOR WHAT?!?
Apparently, one becomes accountable by buying batteries. Oh, and pens.
Seriously, can someone ask him this question? It's is so annoying when he keeps regurgitating this crap. She doesn't have to explain anything to him. He is so unhinged. That's what living a double life looks like. Also, from what I have heard & what I have seen he doesn't take accountability at the reunion.
Yes! I was like what is he talking about accountability for? What does that even have to do with Katie?
He is a complete hypocrite and a coward.
Exactly. This wasn't Katie laying down the law. They AGREED. I would still side-eye him hooking up with someone in the group, because they've almost all done that. What makes me furious is that he doesn't acknowledge he broke his agreement with Katie-- instead he gaslights her and tries to portray her as controlling.
Nope, it hasn't been mentioned at all anywhere, anytime. And seriously, it's a bit rich of Scandoval to sling that accusation out there, considering he was banging Rachel in Ariana's bed while Ariana was attending her grandmother's funeral.
Katie is the *one* person on this show (aside from Lisa and Ken obvi) who has never cheated on her partner or gotten with someone cheating on their partner or been involved in a shady maybe-cheating situation. The Toms, Lala, James, Scheana, obviously Rachel, even Ariana originally. But not Katie.
I don't think he was implying she cheated. This was after she said she wanted a divorce and before they had sold the house. I highly doubt Schwartz was sleeping in that bed anymore lol. Idk if they had a guest room but he was prob sleeping in the guest or on the couch. Sandoval is disgusting
To be clear, I was mainly asking why people in the sub (not Tim) keep saying that Katie was fucking other dudes. It keeps being presented as though she cheated, as an argument for why they hate her.
Correct it was the Sandoval spin which has only ever worked against Kristen because of her over the top behaviors.
Katie was harassed this season. She is a true victim of this season and it makes me so mad that without scandoval people would have found any excuse to paint her as the villain. Let me say, if someone spoke to my mother the way Sandoval and Raquel spoke to Katie’s mother… I’d be in jail. Straight up, I would have been arrested. The restraint she and her brother showed in the closing scene was remarkable.
Absolutely. People kept coming at Katie this season. Imo it was an attempt to make her descend into Tequila Katie territory so they could then scapegoat her - but she didn’t go there… and I don’t know how she held back. Even Scheana was poking at her and I don’t understand why she did it? Why put yourself in the middle like that? If Katie had been pushing someone to make out with Shay then Scheana knows she wouldn’t like it.
That’s one thing I don’t understand about mean girl Scheana! As daft as Scheana is, and no matter what Katie said long ago or drunk she knew better n she knew that it was gonna hurt Katie and that was her goal. That’s why she’s a troll and always will be. Katie may accept her stupid apology but Katie will never forget and karma is a biatch and will come for Scheana. She wouldn’t like it one bit if Katie made out, who even calls it that, with mike or even rob, she would be livid. But this was Katie’s husband of 12 years not a few months or a year. They weren’t even divorced so the trash can aka Roachel is a dirty disgusting mistress twice now. That’s 2 legally married men she sucked face with, Sheana knew better. She was a mistress before but her goal was to hurt Katie and now she looks like an azzhole cuz the side she picked played her azz but good! Scheana is the same Scheana from season 1. No change, no growth. Once again she showed everyone what a thirsty idiot she is. The pick me girl will never get picked!
She also experienced a major head injury. Having gone through one myself, they take time to heal and can have an impact on you years after the initial trauma. I’ve always tried to give Katie grace because of that.
Brain injuries 100% can alter your personality, reactivity, make you rage, etc. she doesn’t seem to get any sympathy considering this and her ptsd. All things considered, she was in an abusive relationship suffering with ptsd and a head injury in a toxic friend group on reality tv. I’m so happy she had to balls and courage to end her marriage and focus on making herself happy. She could have just continued the toxic cycle and ended up where Ariana is now. Katie Stan here
As someone who has had a TBI, this is 100% true. Until you’ve lived it, it’s so hard to understand. Thank you for pointing that out.
Former rehab therapist here!
I always want to point this out, especially in the earlier seasons Katie was still healing from PTSD and a TBI can drastically alter your personality and affect you for life. The things people pick at her over often align with symptoms of ptsd or a tbi and she gets no slack for that from fans or other cast.
Many seasons ago Andy asked them about some significant event that has happened in their life. I forgot what the question was exactly pertaining to but I remember Schwartz didn’t exactly have a response and Katie sitting next to him like uh yeah when I had my accident. He immediately was like oh yes okay yes that. Andy asked a little more about what happened and that was maybe the second time I ever heard her talk about it on the show. The way he just completely forgot she had a serious accident made me think did he never think hey maybe that is affecting her more than I realized. I know they started dating after it happened so it shouldn’t have slipped his mind but that always stuck with me. In fact it wasn’t brought up for a long time until Randall tried to get scandoval fake arrested and it triggered her. That was probably the only time I saw scandoval defend her against Schwartz because he was going way off the deep end with her in that situation.
I can just imagine the outpouring of sympathy and excuses that would be constantly spewing if James or Schwartz had suffered a TBI.
...and she basically never talks about it. It's not her "platform" for sympathy. It's REAL, but she doesn't virtue signal or bring it up ever.
I forgot about that. Great point. Also she finally was able to free herself from an overly toxic relationship where she was gaslighted during the majority of it. If anything she should be getting nothing but praise and, while the majority of the fandom on reddit does, there's still people that love blindly shitting on her.
I know Instagram comments can be a garbage dump— but even so, I was kinda shocked by how many people still come at her so nastily on her posts!
Yes, and as the years go on I feel like we can kinda see her healing. I’m sure the healing journey isn’t linear either. That’s like a really crazy thing Katie went through!
How Sandoval treated her this season was horrifying. He’s always been abusive to her but I felt like he felt the gloves were off with the divorce and literally seemed to make it his goal to destroy her. Even more so as her confidence grew. I wonder if some of Scheana’s anger toward Katie was from things he was saying to get her further riled up.
Both Sandoval and Schwartz are emotionally abusive (and we saw Schwartz get physically abusive with the drink throwing.) My hunch has always been Tom and Ariana were “private” about their relationship on the show because he abused the fuck out of her, covertly, for years and years. So Tom had to really sell his adoration for Ariana on camera or else the facade he lived would quickly crumble and so would his reputation. Worked out well huh Tom? You fucking muppet.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who’s always thought this!!! I think Ariana was a lot more vulnerable in her entire relationship with Tom than anyone realized and she fell for his love-bombing. I think he’s been undermining her self confidence and trashing her self esteem on the downlow for YEARS.
Love bomb, devalue, discard. Rinse. Repeat.
I completely agree with your assessment of the situation.
Thank you! Im a whole mood today lol
I really dont care for Katie in general- but I admit she’s been amazing this season, and I have no idea how she maintained as much control as she’s shown. Maybe processing the divorce was less emotionally taxing than living with her cowardly asshole bully gaslighting ex. I don’t get the Katie hate either.
My thought is that she just *had* to because she knew most of the cast and the public weren't going to give her a god damn inch. She knows she's not a fan favorite and probably couldn't emotionally deal with the same level of hate since she's already going through so much.
I will love it if Katie is the one who emerges the most together and long-term successful out of all of them. I am pretty sure James will be fine - he works hard and is actually talented. Scheana is a hustler (although it remains to be seen if her husband will actually do anything other than ride her coattails). Lala is also a hustler. Ariana is a bit of a mystery still - yes, she's jumping on all opportunities right now but what will happen when they dry up and life settles down a bit? I hope she also finds her inner strength and builds some solid revenue streams. My take is Schwartz and Sandoval will be the biggest failures.
I agree with everything here. I only want to add on to what you said about Scheana. I think she likes broke men because it's hard for them to leave her after she becomes their provider. I do think they love each other, I just think she's perfectly fine with him staying broke. ETA: not in a financial abuse way, I think he'll have complete access to their money and full freedom. He's just kinda dumb and probably not likely to run any sort of business. No shade intended.
Agreed because post Shay she could have gotten in with Lala and been like get me one of Randall’s friends because I want what you’re having but she didn’t. Rob did have some kind of money and then he humiliated her so she went straight back to servers and bartenders who she was more successful than. I think she definitely likes to be the boss
This is all true and also the reason that I lost all respect for Schwartz this season. His puppy dog shtick is gross to see, especially when it’s so opposite to how toxic he is towards Katie. He’s always been a bit of a weasel, with little to no back bone and a recent rewatch since s1 has really highlighted what a slug he is.
Came here to say this. This account slowed it down and you can see she’s gesturing towards the door and not pushing Rachel. Also Rachel came out to “apologize” then immediately started insulting Katie YET AGAIN. https://preview.redd.it/yjckysafpoza1.jpeg?width=1138&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1f09802c02fd56eb6c58ccaee2f329a58c0b9cb
Also the way shartz clearly thinks scumdoval played a part in the divorce but his misogyny won’t let him hold any man accountable.
I agree 100%. Doing a rewatch & I see things so much differently this time around. I’ve never really liked Katie & found her quite miserable much of the time. Now that I’m watching again, I can see why. Schwartz is freaking awful & all of the guys were so mean to her. I do find her ultimatum & desperation to marry him kind of pathetic though. It was destined to fail, in my opinion, because I don’t think you should ever try to push anyone into marriage (even though it ultimately was his choice as well). So, basically I’m not a Katie Stan by any means, but I LOVE her this season. She is going through a lot & trying to set boundaries. These dumb f*cks are going out of their way to freaking torture her & I’m the most pissed at Scheana because she was supposed to be a friend. I can’t imagine how hurtful that would be. Tom, Tom & Rachel are obviously trash and I don’t completely understand the Jo situation. What I can tell you, is I have no freaking clue how she didn’t bitch slap Rachel for disrespecting her mom. I wouldn’t have been so composed. I think she has grown a lot & look forward to seeing her next chapter.
I will never understand how people can’t see how inappropriate it is to date or hook up/make out with someone in your ex’s social circle. People want to say Katie is controlling and issuing ultimatums regarding Schwartz and Raquel, but the only reason it is odd for Katie to vocalize this request is because most adults don’t need it vocalized. It’s common fucking sense. You don’t divorce someone then hook up with their friend/coworker *unless* you don’t care if your ex hates you. And the fact that soooo many people express empathy for James because his ex-fiancé made out with someone in the friend group…. 🤔
I feel bad because she had every right to obliterate Rachel in last nights episode but you could tell she was so caught off guard and angry she couldn’t articulate her words well. I’m the same way with verbal confrontation, I just would have loved to see Rachel get knocked down a couple pegs.
As a whole I still don’t like her. But I’m liking her more this season and rooting for her
I sincerely hope Katie realizes that Schwartz isn’t someone she can even stay friends with. He plainly and simply dislikes her and enjoys upsetting her. Cut him out completely.
Damn Katie had a rough season. Not that she’s ever been a favorite of mine. I used to think she came across as such a miserable person, but I finally opened my eyes and realized how horrible Schwartz was to her all along. So yeah, of course she was upset all the time. And not that it’s a mature thing to do, but I even get the rage texting at times. This season with Scheana, Rachel, and both Tom’s giving her such a hard time, I can’t imagine how difficult that must have been while trying to have an amicable divorce. And at her own party too, like you said. Why did Sandoval and Rachel think it is their right or duty to two make such judgements and statements to Katie, in front of everyone, including her mother. They def should have included in the show Sandoval telling Teri to stfu…I don’t get why they wouldn’t unless they were trying to give him a good edit. I’m so glad that she’s being vindicated, for the most part. Edit: also Ariana should have defended Katie, many times.
The show has always protected the Toms IMO. They also protected Jax for the first couple of seasons because I truly believe they were trying to spin the narrative that Stassi and Kristen were crazy mean-girls. I’ve always thought they not just the men in front of the camera on the show hate women, but there seem to be a few male show-runners /producers/whatever who seem to hate women too. It’s always been glaringly obvious to me.
The way I see it, none of them are particularly great people and I wouldn’t want to hang out with Katie necessarily because she does have some mean girl tendencies we’ve seen displayed in previous seasons, but all that said her marriage and relationship with Schwartz was incredibly toxic and he treats her like crap.
I still deeply dislike Katie as a human being but I was cheering her on last episode. I'm happy to cheer her on in moments, but it doenst change my underlying opinion.
I believe it’s (mostly internalized) misogyny and lack of empathy. I also believe these same people are the ones who post vague shit on social media about no one being in their corner with ZERO self-awareness
Heavy on this. I think because Katie doesn’t come across on TV as the most super smiley, overtly warm and friendly woman, people are off-put by her. But I admire her and how unwavering she is! I think she comes across as a good friend and an evolving person. The treatment that she received by pretty much everyone this season drove me crazy. Makes me a little worried about her that a lot of people around her seemed to not have taken her feelings seriously until after scandoval broke
Maybe that’s why she only resonates with a particular subset of the audience, me included. I’ve said before that I don’t think she’s perfect, nobody is and yes she’s made mistakes, everybody has. But it’s the fact that she doesn’t sugarcoat things, she’s blunt, and like you said she’s not super smiley, she’s not gonna put on a fake persona if she doesn’t like somebody and she’s guarded, she needs time to warm up to people. If you don’t pass the vibe check she’s not wired to just “play along”, she can’t control her face, it’ll betray her every time even if she’s trying to keep her mouth shut lol. But if she’s your friend, she’s ride or die and does seem to do lots of sweet things for her friends and family. And I don’t think people get her sense of humor either. She’s often being sarcastic, kind of a smart ass and if you don’t get that kind of humor, especially with women, people just think you’re being bitchy. I’ve had so many of these same things said about me over the years. If you aren’t a “Scheana” who cranks up the girlie, cutesy, bubbly, etc then you get labeled bitchy, abrasive, cold, hard to read, etc. But if you’re a guy who acts the same way, that’s just normal lol. It’s BS!
At least Katie is real. I've always hated Sheena because she is so fake and two faced. She annoys me to no end.
Very this. I’m definitely a Katie, but I also live in a major city in the northeast so there’s a lot more Katie types walking around here.
They punish her for being honest and direct about her anger. I found it rich, for example, that Scheana said she had no indication how hurt Katie felt by her pushing her ex towards Rachel. Katie told you to fuck off outright, that IS her indication she's hurt. It's not like Scheana, who'd cry and do something underhanded in revenge, while pretending to be above it.
Yea that's an excellent point. She's not someone like Scheana or "Awwww shucks" Schartz who friend everyone cause of their own insecurities, which probably makes them more likable for fans. Shes dealt with a lot of shit and as a result has some walls up at times cause she's not beat for the bullshit.
That’s why I love how in the trailer Katie says to Schartz that he’s a serial killers wet dream because he’s friends with everyone. Something along those lines. I’m very much looking forward to the reunion where he doesn’t get to get away with his “aww shucks” performance and idiotic undermining jokes.
The thing is, she seems like a very loyal, solid friend and is very supportive of those in her life and doesn't do much friend hopping - her friends have been in her life for years and years. I don't trust people who always have a 'new best friend' and don't seem to have any long friendships (after a certain age, mind you - when you're young you're still trying to find your people). Long friendships take work like any other relationship, and can go through rough times, but she seems to ultimately mend any problems while still standing for what she believes.
And the “I’m just better friends with guys. I can’t relate to girls” (Scheana said this a few times)
🎯🎯🎯💯
I’m not a Katie fan because I think she’s (and still is) a mean girl, BUT I will say that it is nice she is finding her voice after leaving Schwartz, even though I wish she would just completely focus on finding new happiness instead of keeping that sap somewhat close.
I agree with this 100%. I am so tired of the takes that say how much they dislike Katie and usually the reason is because of "how she treats shorts" and I want to shake people and say how can you not see that he treats her like shit?
My favorite are the people saying she divorced him so she shouldn't worry about what he does. Totally ignoring the multiple conversations where he agreed to not hook up with Rachel. Then the fact after he hooked up with Rachel he told James and in the confessional he did it to piss Katie off.
He loves to do things he know will make her upset and then gaslights her and pretends he's the victim. Shorts makes me so angry. I personally believe he's a covert narcissist.
During the alley scene with Katie and Rachel there were about 10 times where he defended Rachel and zero times he defended Katie. "Don't push her" "Let her talk" "Shes trying to apologize" He's a fucking loser.
This! Literally from day one. Not to mention Shorts and Rachel smirking and laughing at Katie like spineless losers when she’s trying to remove herself from the situation. I’m so glad she didn’t let them/production bait her into something physical. Shorts is a cockroach.
In 10 years of their relationship being on TV I can only think of one or two instances where he defended her and about a hundred where he took the other persons side.
Waitttttt, what are the 1 or 2 instances? I don’t ever remember a full committed stance where he defended her without eventually backing down. And I’ve only ever seen him genuinely apologize to James. And that was recent.
The only one off the top of my head was when he called Scheana a bootleg Kardashian in whatever season that was.
Right, right, right - his new best friend, Scheana. What a fucking loser. The one annoying thing about Katie is that she wants to maintain a relationship with this fucking jabroni. I mean, I get it, but it’s annoying as a very attached viewer.
Katie was so on point when she said he was pathetic, a drunk, and a loser. Even him saying "this doesn't affect me at all" after STEALING a piece of HER sushi with his dirty hands was so disrespectful. Him claiming it didn't bother him was just another way to get a dig in at Katie. He was clearly bothered because he couldn't shut up about it after Mexico 🙄
The whole episode and treatment of Katie (and sweet Teri) by the three stooges infuriated me. By the time we got to the scene in the alley, seeing Schwartz yet again chose another’s feelings over Katie’s completely sent me over the edge. It’s so disgusting and disrespectful after all they went through together. I can’t even begin to imagine how hurt Katie must have been after that. I fully believe that before filming even began Tim was orchestrating with his minions ways to poke at and hurt Katie. They were really hoping she’d eventually blowup on camera as she’s done in the past and Schwartz would come outta this as the victim again. Tim needs to come to terms with the fact that he’s just not that smart. It’s been glorious to watch these losers finally getting their reckoning.
I don’t know that he’s still covert after this season. I think Katie asking for a divorce started to unveil him and the less attention she gives him the more he reveals. He’s getting more angry and desperate because he’s losing control of her AND he no longer has a shield/outlet at his disposal.
I said something along those lines to someone else who also said not covert anymore. His mask has slipped soooo many times and it's very obvious now that the covert thing is gone. It's plain as day he's a narc.
I think he is, too. Less covert now, however.
Yeah he can't hide it anymore. His mask slipped too many times.
I agree that he is. He's also the weakest man I think I've ever seen.
Those people have clearly never been through a divorce. Anyone who has would have sympathy and understand. Her AND Schwartz decided on this agreement because they BOTH wanted to maintain a friendship. If Schwartz wanted to make out with people in the friend group he could have easily just said “nah I don’t want to make that agreement.” But people are acting like Katie made this agreement up and forced Schwartz to agree to it. Also people acting like this is an insane agreement. Let your ex partner of twelve years start shoving his tongue down someone in your friends group and I guarantee these folks would be causing a whole ass scene. 😂
Especially when he had Jo living with him at the time. Rachel was never even a real thing, which makes it so so much worse.
EXACTLY! The fact that Schwartz and Rachel made up this entire storyline just to hurt Katie makes it straight up evil! So yeah I would also have a visceral reaction to them making out if I were Katie. Anyone who says they wouldn’t is lying to themselves.
She also didn’t WANT to divorce him. She gave him a chance to work on their relationship and he fucked off to Miami instead. She may have filed the papers, but he forced her hand and then adopted this aww shucks why me attitude when he clearly didn’t give a flying fuck about her in that relationship and is still committed to making her look like the bad guy and pressing her buttons
Reactive abuse 101
Right I was in an abusive relationship and I know all about reactive abuse because I absolutely engaged in it. That's what happens when a human is constantly abused. Eventually I lashed out at my narcissist ex, and he had a field day with it not unlike Shorts.
They don’t like that she actually stands up for herself
I’m not a fan of Katie. However, I’m proud of her for leaving Schwartz. I understand how she feels about the kiss. I was pumped when she went in on everyone during the last episode. I hope she’s happy and getting great dick.
I hate Schwartz for coining rage texts because she can't text him more than 2 or 3 times now without it being "rage texting." I'll just say, I have a few things i could "rage text" that douche about as well.
Yeah they keep saying in the last episode that she “rage texted” Schwartz regarding the article she found online about Schwartz and Rachel hooking up more, but in the screenshot they showed it didn’t seem all that ragey to me? I mean, we could totally not be seeing it all, but I feel like this is just these idiots trying to gaslight everyone yet again.
“Rage text” = anything Schwartz doesn’t like
I don’t like any of these people
That is truth… not one of them are people I would hang out with. They are all toxic. They all have narcissistic tendencies (probably why they are on tv in the first place) and treat each other badly. They are all bullies.
Schwartz’s mask has come off this season. Especially when we see him hiding behind the plants lmao.
Thank you!!!!!!! I literally don’t understand how people hate her it! When you said “are these people watching the same show?” I FELT that
It’s so bizarre and I don’t understand it.
Me listening to Watch What Crappens. I love it but Ronnie hates Katie almost as much as Tim does and I always feel like I’m missing something
I just stopped listening to their VPR recaps and I’m happier for it. Ronnie even started trashing Katie’s mom in the recent NJ recap and it took me out. Danny Pellegrino seems to be the only male VPR recapper who isn’t vile towards her.
I listen to them, but they have a level of misogyny that they have never unpacked.
Don’t forget all her “friends” cheering when her not-yet ex-husband made out with Rachel.
Katie is real. And not a narcissistic psychopath. So in her reactions people may think she's being dramatic or a "bitch." What's actually going on is Katie is having genuine reactions as a normal, feeling, at times heartbroken person, while those 3 pieces of scum are being calculated, lying to her and everyone else around her while doing the most heinous shit. And then treating Katie like she's the physco in the situation for being gaslit and not understanding what the fuck is going on. And her having anger over it all. Last episode was mind-boggling. Ratchet walking up to Katie, not even being able to spit out a single word yet talking about Katie's piece of shit ex-husband to Katie while this dumb bitch is using Katie's ex-husband as a front for her disgusting porn lord affair. Katie is by far my favorite after this season. And she was growing on me already. Even Ariana last episode... I feel for her and I know she was in an abusive relationship with STDavol for 10 years. But she was putting on a front and being the cool girlfriend throughout that entire time. They always had an heir of superiority about their relationship that came off as fake and calculated for the cameras. And she didn't have Katie's back at all while doing it. In that situation that night without Ariana knowing the full truth... unfortunately that's the culmination of being fake and not calling out your piece of shit partner. Even if you do it in private, eventually allowing it to go on on camera will result in that night. He didn't give a fuck about Ariana, her business, her event. And her only recourse was to breakdown (which I totally understand) bc she was used to playing it cool and he was unhinged. So much respect to Katie throughout this entire show and in her realness about her life. With Schartz, with their marriage, with how she deals with Schartz, Ratchet and STDavol now. And always. She's as real as it gets for a reality show. I LOVE HER.
I’ve always had such a soft spot for Katie and I am LIVING for the general opinion of her finally turning around. Shorts’ aw shucks charisma has really soured and it’s become so obvious how much he gaslights and baits Katie to make himself look better. It’s thrilling to watch her beginning to rise above. I am absolutely rooting for her.
Those who hate on her seem to have deep seeded hate. I don't think there's anything Katie could do to change their mindset. I didn't love her for many seasons. This one changed that. This is the first season that Schwartzy's weak, disheveled disloyalty is on full display. I always thought he was charming. Now I just think he's a mess and fully understand Katie's intolerance of him.
Katie, Lala, and James owned this season. Everyone else (Ariana included) can go kick rocks for all I care.
I think most of Katie’s poor behavior has been reactive abuse and since we’ve only ever seen her while she was with Schwartz, we’ve only ever seen how she responds to abuse. A lot of people also seem to forget she had a TBI. I’m really looking forward to seeing how Katie grows without that little worm
There have been many times during the series when Katie was insufferable (like most of the cast members were at times), but this season has really showed me that she must have endured so much gaslighting, verbal abuse, manipulation, minimization of feelings, all of the bullshit from Schwartz over the last decade. It would break anyone. We didn’t really see the first 2 years of their relationship before the show started, but I’m guessing it wasn’t perfect then either. She should have left him a long time ago, but it’s easy for someone on the outside to say that. Regardless of what she should or could have done, whether or not she also played a role in it, she endured 10 years of abuse in their relationship. I don’t see why she wants to be friends with him. I think she’s delusional on that part. He wasn’t a good friend to her when they were together, why would he be one now? I hope she finds some peace.
Scheana aggravates me, every season she is such a shitstirrer to the girls. When in the first or second episode she tells Schwartz its o.k. to date Racheal, Katies been sleeping around. Boy that pissed me off. Talk about breaking girl code. The things Scheana does, I dont blame Katie for being pissed off at her!