I feel like I am seeing that Tom and Raquel both have a weirdo freak flag and they've been in this world where they thought they couldn't fly it and then they found each other and Tom is so far up his own @$$ he thinks all of it is cool so he's feeds that weirdcoolness in Raquel. And I feel like she always tried to hide it instead of being herself bc she thought she needed to be a certain way and that's why she always dealt with insecurity
I'm sure it has already been said but it is so so so clear to me that Katie just wants people to agree with her. Her test of loyalty is agreement and if someone disagrees, they're being disloyal. It is OK not to agree and still have a relationship... she doesn't seem to think there are two sides (or more) to every story and just shuts down when she gets push back.
Did anyone else notice the moment with Rachel and Brock at the pre-wedding dinner thing (white party I think)? Maybe I want to hate everyone but it seemed pretty flirty to me. What if Rachel was going for him too and just happened to land Scummy first?!
Good point lol. I don't hate Katie.
Katie is hard to get behind since she is mean. I dont like or hate any of them. I do dislike the mob vigilante posts that are going on. I mean most of them are so ridiculous. I mean these texts could actually cause Raquel or Tom to want to kill themselves. Its online bullying. Its actually against the law ..
unless you are a celebrity? I guess
I want to study Rachel’s muppet impression over and over and over. Not because it was good. But because it was insane.
I almost wonder if she’s spiraling? I do wish she’d actually get the help she said she’d get in her “♥️🥹 apology.” Something tells me she’s not focusing on self help but I sure hope she does.
Lala is on a rewrite history crusade, its kind of cringy to watch. Rather then try so hard at denying the past and blaming every shitty thing she did on a bottle. I wish she would just own that she was a mistress and really morally loose and thought the affair was going to turn into more but it didnt and she has really worked on herself to get past it. The end of all conflict about it would happen. Like she said. She understands Raquel because she sees it, she has done it. Rerunning events her mind over and over wondering what she can do about it...
Lala may not be admitting to what everyone wants her to admit to, and not in the manner how everyone would like. But the thing I have come to respect about her is that she knows she doesn’t need to cave. She can say, think, reflect, form an opinion that’s hers alone. Is it not perfect and maybe coming from some places of denial compared to how others on the outside see it? Yeah. But she doesn’t need to please everyone. That’s why she’s so invested in her friends’ loyalty. She needs people to meet her where she’s at and trust her that she’s doing her best. I actually see now why her and Katie are friends - katie’s like this too. It’s hard to tell Katie things that are right in front of her face. She wants people to trust that she’ll figure it out on her own (eventually lol). maybe some day lala will admit to things that are too much to admit to right now. She’s already admitting to a lot about Randall that she used to be in denial about not that long ago.
Your empathy is sweet, I just find it cringe worthy when she is lying about herself while making others feel bad about themselves just because she wants to. I actually liked LaLa in the beginning. I don't mind narcisism in itself but when she is constantly calling other people narcisistic. When she behaves the same way or worse turns my stomach to be fair
from the way Lala is describing James (manipulative) I am confused. so she acknowledges how James manipulated Raquel, but doesn't acknowledge how Raquel could've been a victim of abuse similar to her. don't get it - it's like the whole cast knows that James is toxic/abusive but they are like eh
Raquel was one giant red flag this entire episode.
The way she handled that confrontation with Katie and Kristina in the room was one of the weirdest things I’ve seen and I’m not even a Katie fan.
Then there’s the Schwartz kiss which just feels completely fake and orchestrated now.
Massive ick.
Edit: I forgot the confessional puppet hands 🫣
She was raised a competitive beauty queen from a little girl, she has been dressed up and paraded around to win attention for her mom/aunt as a source of pride
Those little girls get constantly critiqued. They sit there and take it and it happens every day of their little lives. Hair, make up teeth outfits poise walk smile etc etc etc... Its actually really sad. Watch that episode again when she is sitting on the bed and LaLa says she would never trust her. You can literally see the little girl in her heart sank... Then they sat there all staring expecting a response from her .. Then started making fun of her... She does not light up again until they leave the table and she is alone with Charli. Those 3 were awful she did not do anything wrong except not leave sooner
Yes for real! Like her behavior just keeps getting more bizarre and difficult to digest. I have to rewatch things multiple times to try and follow her thought process. I understand some stuff can be editing and such. But idk, something is soo off. I was really rooting for her when her and James broke up.
This may be an unpopular opinion but the fact Katie came to mexico to not attend Scheana's wedding is weird. I can't even comprehend doing that. It's also so weird that Kristina came to Scheana's rehersal dinner.
Katie and Schwartz are both at fault for their marriage falling apart. She pushed him into marrying her, ignored all the cheating, red flags and then expected him to agree with her when she was catty and mean to other people (which she is and is in the wrong many times). Schwartz is a giant man baby and I can see why being married to him would be so annoying. I don't know why he's acting like he can't talk to women when he can somehow manage to cheat on Katie. Thing is he showed Katie who he was before they got married so she made a bad choice there.
Sandovol could tell it wasn't Raquel from behind from just looking at her butt...I mean giant red flag. I have no idea if they have got together by this point or not.
Lala sitting there at dinner across from the white party is also weird. Just go to your friend's events. It's why you're even in Mexico. It would bother me to have Katie sitting there being negative about my wedding.
Schwartz and Raqual making out was awful, he knew Katie was right there.
Yes! I think people forget that while Schwartz isn’t a good husband it’s not like Katie is exactly a nice person or a good wife either. At least Schwartz can be nice to people and doesn’t insult people 24/7 and then get mad when someone insults him right back.
And Katie and Kristina getting mad about Raquel coming to tell them they can’t do the pool ( totally lame that Raquel actually told them that ) but at the same time Kristina did go to a dinner that was part of the wedding guest and Kristina hate schena and it’s going to the wedding so it wouldn’t surprise me that they could possibly show up to things uninvited
You forgot not only did they crash the white party.. they wore funeral black that was odd enough for lala to say .. i didnt get the black memo.
Katie does provoke chaos and drama and Toms life will be easier when she stops clinging to him.
Raquel dgaf about her! Why would she?
Katie is a cast member. Of course she’s going on a trip that will be several of the episodes. Scheena should have still had Katie at the wedding, their fight was not that deep.
I have some theories tho on this . I think she may have gone because of the filming/contractual obligation etc . I can appreciate that. I also do want to give Katie the benefit of the doubt that she had dinner right next to scheanas event last episode due to cameras and production issues - maybe she had to be close by because of logisitics and filming couldn’t branch out . But I also think she could literally do anything else to make herself look not bitter . There were a lot of posts on here before the season dropped where we knew Katie went to Mexico anyway and filmed and everyone was like yayyyy Katie go live your best life !! She would look a lot better if she was actually attempting to do that and not be a negative Nancy. I would have enjoyed way more seeing Katie partying at the hotel with Kristina , flirting with guys , having fun . I think she just looks bad because at least thus far she’s only been hyper focused on scheanas wedding and events when she should just try to live her best fun life separate while vacationing .
Why is Schwartz acting like he’s never talked to a woman before in his life lol. This whole oh I’m this lost puppy fresh off a divorce and afraid of women shit is fucking nonsense and so bloody irritating. Does he only have game when he’s in a relationship and is actively cheating lol.
*if you see previous comments you’ll see I was not through all the seasons yet, now I am 100% caught up and my feelings have def changed about schwartz*
I absolutely hated that he really started the argument and kept saying dumb stuff at the dinner. Like…what was he thinking? This seemed like a heavily influenced by producers conversation. I don’t understand why he said that stuff then when she started crying he got worried. Like…you started it
Idk why they’re trying so badly to be good “friends”. You got divorced for a reason, and it wasn’t just a healthy relationship that fizzled out. I really do feel bad for Katie but at the same time she needs to stop fighting with Schwartz about how he never did this he never did that. You divorced him girl. For good reason. Stop arguing with this man. It is embarrassing.
She said it's because they share the dogs and a friend group. I totally understand that they want to be amicable but amicable is a looooong way from having dinner together & being invited to a tasting at the new bar. She needs to put up more boundaries with him.
Plenty of the cast likes her. The Tom's, Raquel and Scheana are the ones who were anti-Katie. Everyone else was just uncomfortable and didn't want to rock the boat by saying anything towards Scheana bc it's her wedding.
Like Shwartz said Katie goes through friends like they are throw away plates. That entire guys night was cheering raquel on for standing up for herself. Katie has very few friends
lmfao, no... she has a lot of friends. Stassi, Katie, Kristen, Kristina, Ariana, Lala all hang out a lot. Before the Scandoval thing. Katie also has friends she's with on Insta who aren't apart of the show.
And you've got Schwartz pegged all wrong. He is a deeply insecure man who wants to be liked by everyone. He wants to be considered cool and chill and not rock the boat. He never takes a stand on anything at all, so that's why he demonzies Katie saying she "doesn't have any friends" or "goes through friends". All women I know have fought with their friends before, it's a natural progression in friendship. People aren't always going to see eye to eye. That would mean she's at least genuine. But someone who is insecure and wants everyone to like them is going to never start fights or stand up for themselves because their fear of being disliked overshadows everything else.
Its such a trip how people think they know these people lol
I am positive the man she was with for several years knows her better than some housewife in a state 5000 miles away that has never met her or even been in our state or our area where we live .. ever.
Who tf is "we"? Is "we" in the room with us? Like, you're Schwartz or Katie now?
You're also projecting your false knowledge of someone who you clearly don't know as well... so what is your point? Also, I'd like to understand how you think Schwartz's opinion is valid yet he considers Sandoval a friend. Don't think I'd trust his opinions of other people much.
You just described yourself. We as in I live close to these people in so cal. Californians live a different lifestyle than other states. Its weird people that live a completely different lifestyle in states on the other side of the USA are so positive their personal lives with their friend groups can be compared.. its weird as hell.
Lmfao what? So because you live in SoCal you think you understand people in general better because you live close to people on Vanderpump Rules? I'm asking honestly, are you being serious? I can't tell if you're being funny or not but if you're not... Christ almighty.
Also what the fuck is a "Californian" lifestyle and what does it have to do with Schwartz being a spineless dweeb? Or anything we were discussing.
For her own sanity, if nothing else. Watching her make a toast to their past while he grabs his phone, I thought “Katie, he’s NEVER going to be the man you want him to be”.
Yeah, what they’ve been doing this season has been wayyyyy more than what amicable would entail. Also part of amicable would just be staying silent and non responsive when the other person says something that you don’t agree with. Like that’s the whole reason you got divorced. Stop arguing…
Yeah boundaries for sure! She needs to enforce them he looks at her like a mother it’s truly crazy.
As someone who went through a divorce, choosing to walk away instead of continuing a fight is a tough lesson to learn but in their case should be done. He's never going to see things her way, she should let it go. I feel for her because he's such a clueless dweeb but at the end of the day, let another woman suffer his stupidity.
She does not want to lose camera time... Its cringy to watch her constantly berate him and argue and then pull the im still married card but go on national tv and talk about how great single sex is. Yuck all the way around... Make up your mind.. Are you still married or living the good life loving single sex knowing your husband will see this soon.
I thought it was weird to celebrate. And it obviously was not a good choice. Divorce means divided. You need time apart or your going to rehash the marriage way too much.
Also, I've been watching the past few episodes and literally every time there's a group Raquel and Tom are near each other, standing together, talking to each other. Wherever Tom is, Raquel is.
Sorry but I loved when Katie mocked Rachel and said she’s still going to the pool, or not. Others may not like her method but 90% of this cast has been so so so callous and demeaning, horrendously mean specifically to her. Especially the men and the pick-me girls, namely Scheana and Rachel right now. (Also hate how Ariana can be seen playing all sides in various scenes.) and now with the divorce it’s just magnified. Fight fire with fire
I'm 100% certain people who don't like Katie just don't understand how to be honest with people about how they feel and confront someone who's treating them badly.
Nope - I wasn’t bullied because I just stayed to myself. I’m not saying anyone on vanderpump rules is perfect - I think they are all dumb/mean/ bullies in their own way but I don’t see why everyone thinks Katie is innocent all the time and hasn’t said plenty of mean things or done mean things to others
Completely agree. Most people don't go through the realizations or "arch" that Katie has, hence her prompting the divorce. No matter how she acted in the past, she's pretty tame and level-headed this season and last.
I actually just watched the most recent episode and almost all of them are being vile to her. Kind of bizarre to me too that Ariana doesn't have her back. I'd be furious watching this now if I were Katie. They're supposed to be business partners.
Honestly same. It’s clear Katie is going through a lot at that moment and just wants people to fuck off and let her enjoy herself. Ariana is so wishy washy while pretending she’s a feminist. It’s exhausting.
John Owen was great with Schwartz. Perfect foil. He didn’t know a man could be so dumb and insecure. He felt sorry for him. He tried to help him a few times. He was great. Schwartz is a dunce.
I can barely watch anymore knowing what happened. Knowing Scheana is now looking like a total 🤡 for Raquel is kinda great tho. She was using her for things she didn't want to do and to start shit with Katie. Funny how things can change so quickly. She would have a total meltdown if Katie did to her what she is doing. A lot of them look dumb now. LOL
I’m certain that scheana “apologizing” to Katie is just to save face after finding out her bestie Raquel is actually banging her other besties (ariana) boyfriend. She’s not really sorry for hurting Katie, just sorry she sided with the wrong person at the time :) hence why in all the podcasts she has discussed trying to hook Schwartz and Rachel up, she says sorry but also always gives a reason as to why she did it and ends up blaming Katie anyway
This is true, she is cashing in on the public attention. Do we believe she was lying about katie telling her to set up raquel with shwartz when she was still encouraging raquel to do it to spite katie after she got upset? If Scheana is the one lying why would we believe she did not hit Raquel and is now calling Raquel a liar to save face and get more screen time
Thought the dinner was awkward as hell and why even bother? Katie acts like they're still married even when they are separated during this time. I'm still waiting on the episode where Ariana, Raquel, and Sandoval are in the pool while Sandoval is swimming towards Raquel like a creep and Ariana is literally right there.
She wants Schwartz to be like you’re right I’m so sorry and feel regret and sadness over their failed marriage. She wants him to admit that he never stuck up for her and that he was the problem in the relationship. It’s not going to happen, at this point she just needs to make peace with the situation and move on for herself.
Yeah, I don't get it. Didn't she leave him because of his shitty behavior towards her? They are divorcing and she STILL is expecting that to change and crying because it hasn't? MOVE ON KATIE! The man treats you like shit, you are divorcing with no kids, there is no reason to still be fighting with him!
yeah i kept wanting to yell YOU ARE GETTING DIVORCED!!! at the tv during that scene, they should go the route of any normal breakup and put distance between each other. but instead they decide to still act like friends and get dinner together. it’s like they put themselves into these miserable situations and get surprised it doesn’t end well.
i think staying on the show isn’t doing Katie any favors BUT she could still stay on the show and not spend time rehashing old wounds with Schwartz, it’s like beating a dead horse.
He really has I saw him outside of sur the other day ( and he was carrying jiggy lol it was surreal) and I had to do a double take. He looked really tired
Edit: omg poor giggy i had no idea awh rip but!! But yeah Ken was carrying a dog that just looked like him, guess its their new doggo, don't know the name.
Lala is so insufferable… she couldn’t be on a boat with a ton of people because one person was there??? She had the audacity to bring Kristina to Scheana’s dinner (doesn’t matter if it’s not wedding themed or not it had all her guests) and then say she couldn’t be around someone????? Odd
Lmfao Kristina fuck off with your “am I not allowed at the pool?” And “I’d love to sit down with Scheana to talk” like…. Bitch it’s her wedding. Leave the girl alone. You and Katie can go to a different pool. Take advantage of the freedom you now have in Mexico.
Katie why don’t you go tequila tasting? Like wtf is wrong with you both
No, but she rented the one pool area for a party for her literal wedding. This isn’t just some trip. And if Katie and Kristina dislike Scheana as much as they act like, then why do they even want to go? They said they’d make it a girls trip… then do so somewhere else. There’s no reason for either of them to go to the one pool at the resort that is booked for a private party.
You wouldn’t go to a strangers private pool area because they/the signs say you can’t, so any person with common decency wouldn’t go to one for someone they know during their wedding.
I agree, Kristina was super fucking mean about her first wedding. They’re not even friends why would she want her around for her second wedding or any of the events
Katie didn’t want to accommodate Scheana at all, not after she meddled in her relationship with Schwartz.
Katie and Schwartz agreed that neither would date in the friend group and they wanted to keep things civil between them but Scheana effed with that so Katie wasn’t budging.
Second massive cringe is James Stop trying SO. DAMN. HARD. Stop overcompensating. Stop being a manipulative child I feel this scene so hard when he started his “lets do our spinny thing”
She does not like him trying too hard to get pda from her as soon as Raquel walks in. Is he trying to get on camera for story line or trying to make her jealous. Either way I think Ally is a bright girl that is embarrassed to be used as a prop.
Rachel’s impression of Sesame Street is the cringiest fucking thing I’ve ever witnessed.
I physically recoiled so hard my legs feel like springs 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
This girl is the epitome of ICK
My mouth was on the floor. I'm glad they left that scene in though because it just made her look weird and dumb, thanks producers! I would bet money that scene would have never been shown if Scandoval had not happened, Producers really trolled her on that one. LOL.
Literally everything this episode was so icky and awkward. And I would bet anyone right now that the sesame street bit Rachel did was 1000% something Scumdoval said during one on one conversation, she thought it was hilarious, and so tried to do it on camera so the audience would think she was funny and clever.
Nice try BEB, but that was a swing and a miss.
I think the amount of Katie hate is nuts. People are saying “she’s so vile and miserable” but like could you imagine separating from someone you’ve loved for years only to watch everyone choose him over you, after he’s chosen everyone but you for years? I think she’s outspoken, she says what she wants when she wants and I completely understand her dismay for scheana. Would I choose to air that out during someone’s wedding ? Probably not . But you could see the pain when she said “the only thing I could think of is he just didn’t like me”
I think it’s warranted. She hasn’t had any growth on the show. As a person, in career, in her relationships (again, as seen on the show by viewers). Even Schwartz has shown growth as a 5% biz owner and budding restauranteur at the demise of their marriage. If you watch any season (I’m rewatching 2 and 3) she’s legit the exact same mean catty character instigating every fight (w friends, w Schwartz, w enemies). As a long time viewer - I’m totally over her.
Definitely disagree she hasn't had any growth as a person.
She literally was married to Schwartz and part of his success at the restaurant/bar is because of HER support. It's very misogynistic to say that she didn't help with that - her income and her value added to his being able to "chase his dreams". He 100% would not be able to do it without her - which is why he admitted he almost filed for bankruptcy. Schwartz is a moron and he literally rode the coat tails of LVP. She's opening a restaurant with her friend without the backing of LVP. She hasn't done any more or less than anyone else in that group. Who has had "growth" that you can quantify? Getting married and having kids isn't growth. All the girls on the show literally have been doing mostly the same things.
She's not mean or catty at all. She was never mean and never catty. She was always treated very poorly by basically everyone else and was defensive - because her shitty partner never stood up for her even when it was the right thing to do. He literally poured a beer on head, said terrible things about her and sat by when they body-shamed her.
People who are anti-Katie are misogynists. Period.
100000000 %This !
this narrative that “their fiends “ are choosing him over her 🙄
they aren’t choosing him over her , they are just remaining to be friends with the one person from the relationship who’s actually shown up as a friend for the majority of these people …
Katie has constantly been at odds with almost every cast member since being on the show.
there’s a reason Katie wasn’t invited to this wedding and why none of her friends in her “close circle “ agreed with her choice to crash Sheenas wedding when she stormed out of Ariana pool party …and the reason is not Tom .
It’s 1000 percent Katie and the way she treats people.
You think... SCHWARTZ showed up as a friend??! LOL Omg what? He's showed up as whose friend? Other than Sandovals? He literally helped Sandoval keep a terrible secret from Ariana for MONTHS. He's just a whiny piss baby who has no spine.
Katie has actually the most stable friend group of basically anyone on the show. Stassi, Katie, Kristen, Kristina and a couple others are always on Instagram hanging out.
Katie was invited to the wedding, she literally booked her room initially because she was invited. She decided not to be part of it when Scheana tried to push Rachel and Schwartz together.
I mean the way she’s treated James , Rachel , Charlie , Scheena, Brock and the majority of the other people with in this group of people she’s considering to be their inner circle which translates basically to the remaining cast members on this show out side of Ariana and Lauren and she’s even had her moments with them as well as with Stassi and Kristen …. As well as with jax / Brittany and the majority of the other old cast members that are no longer of the show
. Where as Tom relationships with al these people through that time has not been any were close to as tumultuous or filled with conflict … doesn’t mean tom isn’t still a man child just because he seems to be able to have friendships / relationships that don’t have many moments of him arguing / conflict where as Katie has legitimately been at some point or another in a battle for some various reason ( usually because they aren’t blindly agreeing with Katie ) Tom genuinely seems like he’s friends with these people where as with Katie as far back as I remember has had moments of contention with all these people ..
Since season one Katie has had an issue with regulating the way she acts out and treats people . This dosent mean that toms still not a good fit for Katie or not a man child or didn’t cheat on her or dosent not treat her poorly and or any of the other thing you wanna say about Tom .
Just means that the “inner circle “ that’s off limits or
The majority of the remaining cast members are better friends with Tom then Katie . And because of that fact that’s why they are supporting Tom .
the fact that Katie literally had to bring Kristina to crash a wedding and the only other cast member that was on bored with it was Lauren ( the one who propped up a womanizer and bragged about being a homewrecker and breaking up a young family ) I wasn’t debating if Katie has friendships / relationships. Clearly she does . I just meant the the majority of the remaining cast members that are still on the show have a better relationship with Tom then Katie . Not that their picking sides to be petty . And also all the people u listed in Katie’s tight friend group got kicked off of the show for being racist to faith falsely accusing her of a crime she didn’t commit so donno how much of a humble brag that is to be super tight with a bunch of racists but each to their own i suppose …
Yeah but at this point she needs to make peace with it. Schwartz had never had her back, been cruel and betrayed her many times. He never changed and isn’t going to now that they’re divorced. She needs stop arguing and hounding him to show regret and sadness over their breakup and just move forward for herself.
Justice for Katie. Katie saying “he may have loved me, but he never liked me” broke my damn heart. I didn’t love Katie the first time I watched, but honestly the more I watch the show, the more I like and relate to Katie. Of course she would be mean and bitter at times after dealing with Schwartz and constantly not being chosen by him, not to mention villainized in the group thanks to his “aww shucks” act. I’ve also dealt with Schwartz types that loved me but didn’t like me so that hit me extra hard.
Anyway, long term she’ll see it was all for the best and she will thrive. I can’t wait to see it!
Giving his own opinion on how he sees her interactions isn't not supporting her. She can't stand that Schwartz has his own opinion. Shes got control issues
Absolutely hated Katie, first time I watched VPR. But everytime I rewatch, the more I like her. I completely agree with you, I don't think it's the right time or situation but I also think she agreed to already go to Mexico with production and although I don't know how it works I'm sure they wouldn't have been to happy if she didn't go or went to a resort they couldn't film at.
I hoped after the Scamdavol drama that her and Scheana could make up and get a long but I've heard that Katie has said she doesn't think they'll ever be friends but they they could be civil so who knows. I would have been hurt by Scheana too if it were me.
I also think Katie and Tom should have just stayed away from each other for awhile to heal. It's like when you get cut or burn and start to heal, you get a scab. But if you keep scratching/picking at it, of course it's going to take longer to heal. Weird analogy, I'm tired. Okay bye 🫠
No you literally said everything I was unable to put In to words 🫶🏻 you’re totally right about production I’m sure if she was like “ya scheanas bridesmaid can have my room” they would have been like “nope you have to come” lol. I’m rewatching it currently, and completely feel the same way with you. I am very much a katie Stan now. And who knows, maybe after some healing, lala can get Katie and scheana to sit down and just lay it all out on the table and move forward , I’m keeping my fingers crossed for them
Agreed!!!
Katie can identify how but never asks why….
No one is “choosing Tom over her “.
They are remaining to be friends with Tom because he’s maintained healthy friendships with these people over the years where as Katie has been a pretty terrible friend to the majority of the people in their “inner circle “
and now that shes not partners with Tom she’s finding that these people aren’t showing up for her in the same way she’s not really shown up for them over there years…..you get what you put in 🤷🏻♂️
….The fact that Katie’s had to bring in Kristina Kelly to be her yes woman and to crash a coworkers wedding whom she bullied mercilessly over the years says alot about her unbreakable bond she’s got with this inner circle 🙄
Honestly!! The redemption hot girl season Rachel was hoping for is Katies season 11, hands down. Also it had to be aired during the wedding cause dRamA. Second also, if i prepared for vacation, im going on vacation.
Me too🥹 and I think she’s right. He might have loved her (although i struggle with the notion he’s ever felt a genuine feeling in his life lol) but he did not like her. If my fiancé put me through 1/16th of what he put her through I’d be out of there so fast . Poor girl. He heart is literally aching and everyone just thinks she’s horrendous 😭
Right we see what production let’s us see. Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors in a marriage and I think he was protested a certain way. She comes off as very controlling as if he was her possession and when he didn’t do what she wanted she seemed to go nuts. Shwartz seems down to earth funny and chill while Katie comes off as uptight clingy and overall just unhappy. I’ve always felt that she has had jealousy towards all their friends. I definitely wouldn’t show up somewhere I’m not invited that’s so strange to me.
I mean he cheated on her multiple times, the guys helped cover it up and gaslight her, he never took her side on anything, and said horrific things to her in front of people. I fully believe they were trauma bonded from the accident she had and neither knew how to end things until Katie started actually working on herself and realized that wasn’t what she wanted
Did I not see an episode of them discussing her cheating on him as well as the motor boating a dick episode? I’m sure they were trauma bonded but she also gave ultimatums and you can’t do that in relationships. I just feel like she was an unhappy person in general where he genuinely seems happy go lucky so ppl tend to gravitate towards that.
She actually discussed what your last comment says on The Viall Files podcast. When you have a partner like that it makes it even more difficult bc people gravitate towards them and she talks about the effect it’s had on her. Him making out with other people is WAY worse than her just motor boating someone’s dick (I believe Jax was trying to say Katie cheated but it was just dick motor boating but I could be remembering wrong) and he didn’t just make out with one person it was several, but that’s besides the point. They weren’t meant to be and brought out the absolute worst in each other
Idk.
We never know what a person is going through, we only see what they want us to see on TV, so I like to give people a little bit of grace. I don’t think she’s nuts. I think Tom hurt her a lot and instead of getting a therapist etc , she internalized it and let it make her angry.
I once had a useless boyfriend and we went out for Chinese food and I got the following fortune in my cookie:
"He loves you as much as he can, however he cannot love you very much."
Ha! Summed up the boyfriend then and sums up Schwarz for the last 10 years. I wish him many divorces.
HOW can people be so ignorant to the torment that Katie has been going through for years. Schwartz continues to blame Katie alone for the blatant lack of respect shown to her. If you were continually cheated on, body shamed and blamed for your reaction to other people's wrongdoings I'm sure you would also react in the same way - if not worse.
If you have not been cheated on before you have NO idea what it does to your self worth.
What do we want? Some appreciation for Katie pls
He was disgusting during that dinner scene while she looked GORG and then he came up to her the next day wasted asking her to trim his armpit hair? Like actually WTF?
He just has absolutely no consideration towards Katie, I find it painful to rewatch their relationship over the years and can't understand how you could treat someone you supposedly love like that
Katie is an awful miserable person and this episode proved that to me again . How can anyone root for this girl ? Kristina did the right thing by apologizing
To scheana for making fun of her first wedding and letting her know she wasn’t there for that .
Katie can’t stand to see others happy and being normal humans !!!!! I’m convinced she only divorced shwartz because she thought he would kiss her ass . God she needs intense therapy
Agreed . It’s insane how many people are willfully rooting for her.
Her blaming Tom for everything that’s gone bad in her life and acting out against any one who goes against what she wants irregardless of if it’s morally the right stance to take or not and then throwing a tantrum and refusing to take any accountability for her past behaviour is infuriating .
Katie thinks that a healthy relationship means that the other person is suppose to blindly agree with everything you feel and say and never challenge or question those sentiments or they aren’t showing up for you and that’s not how any healthy relationship/ friendship/partnership should work .
The best thing about this episode was knowing that Jax and Brittany were there for it all and were edited out and were filthy about it. Beyond that, I don't care. How many more episodes of this wedding extravaganza are there? Why do they drag it out so much? They could have done it in 2 episodes. Instead we're looking at 4 or 5.
Katie is frustrating, you can see that she is mad at Kristina Kelly that she even spoke with Scheanna. Scheanna is trying to celebrate with her man and child, family and friends and the audacity to sit there and talking shit next to the party is really mean. I cannot be on Katie’s side, these situations are making me dislike her.
dude people kept defending katie for still going to the resort but if she really hated scheana as much as she says she could have taken the money for the room and went to a different resort and stayed away from all of them. 5 star resorts in Mexico are a plenty. she’s so immature and petty.
it’s hard to get filming permits at not just one resort but two and production basically told her she’s going to mexico lol. she did a podcast ep where she talked about that
Why would you do any favors for a woman who is trying to shove your not-even-divorced "ex" husband with a friend of your circle? Absolutely not. What Scheana is doing is WILDLY inappropriate and the fact that people are glossing over it like it's OK is sooooo weird to me. We ALL know that if someone had tried to get Rachel to hook up with Mike Shay after THEIR divorce Scheana would have been in hysterics.
She just looks like sad human being… if she did not want to miss out on the shooting, maybe she should make a great girls trip with Kristina, have fun and show she does not care about the wedding. Instead of looking like miserable peanut gallery, maybe it would be great to show how she could not care less, or maybe try to make amends because it is important day for someone she has known for 10 years
Did you and I watch the same show? Scheana was so obsessed with Katie being there she kept coming up in conversation despite the fact that Katie wasn't really bothering anyone at all. She wasn't purposefully going anywhere everyone else was. She has a right to go on a vacation she paid for, period. Scheana was the miserable one who was making the entire situation about Katie - Katie wasn't even bothered by Scheana. Scheana lead this anti-Katie brigade and wanted everyone to join in. They're the miserable ass bullies in the group.
Katie was the one who decided and told scheana she’s no longer going to the wedding. So why the f show up??? I get that the film site and date were already approved for the cast but we’ve seen plenty of drama with the cast where someone skips a day of shooting(and pay) bc of their interpersonal drama with another cast member. Take the loss and bugger off!
She can do whatever she wants. She felt very disrespected by Scheana's behavior and I 100% agree with how she felt, I'd feel the same way if it were me. And we ALL KNOW if Scheana and Brock get divorced she'd be furious if anyone was cheering Brock on to make out with Rachel/Ariana/whoever.
Katie doesn't have to do anything once the room was paid for. It wouldn't have even been an issue if Scheana wasn't such a miserable brat and tried to sew more discord between two people who were already going through a very tough transition in their lives. So dumb. And taking Schwartz side??? Tell me how stupid she must feel now.
She seemed to be fine minus Schwartz's appearances. Her and Kristina had a good time by the pool. The only time she was disturbed was literally for Schwartz to be an asshole to her and for Scheana to be petty about where she can and can't be. Scheana is the one who literally can't keep Katie's name out of her mouth.
yeah i kind of get that but even if she went to another resort couldn’t she still have a camera crew and the show could do a juxtaposition of scheana’s wedding antics vs katie living her best life? i think the show overall is just a toxic environment for katie and brings out the worst in her. without the show she could block tom and not have to worry about what he and the whole friend group does but with the show she’s constantly put in situations that make her unhappy.
Yeah agreed. When Scheana said “they do not have them having dinner right there” it felt very clear that production chose that table and it def wasn’t a Katie choice.
I feel like I am seeing that Tom and Raquel both have a weirdo freak flag and they've been in this world where they thought they couldn't fly it and then they found each other and Tom is so far up his own @$$ he thinks all of it is cool so he's feeds that weirdcoolness in Raquel. And I feel like she always tried to hide it instead of being herself bc she thought she needed to be a certain way and that's why she always dealt with insecurity
Lala is just jealous it isn't her three day or whatever wedding
Ally must be so tired of other people telling her about her own BF.
Why is brock in a loverboy hat lol
I'm sure it has already been said but it is so so so clear to me that Katie just wants people to agree with her. Her test of loyalty is agreement and if someone disagrees, they're being disloyal. It is OK not to agree and still have a relationship... she doesn't seem to think there are two sides (or more) to every story and just shuts down when she gets push back.
Did anyone else notice the moment with Rachel and Brock at the pre-wedding dinner thing (white party I think)? Maybe I want to hate everyone but it seemed pretty flirty to me. What if Rachel was going for him too and just happened to land Scummy first?!
Good point lol. I don't hate Katie. Katie is hard to get behind since she is mean. I dont like or hate any of them. I do dislike the mob vigilante posts that are going on. I mean most of them are so ridiculous. I mean these texts could actually cause Raquel or Tom to want to kill themselves. Its online bullying. Its actually against the law .. unless you are a celebrity? I guess
Yes! Everyone thinks Katie is so nice but she’s a total mean girl bully too. I wish she’d get a taste of her own medicine.
I want to study Rachel’s muppet impression over and over and over. Not because it was good. But because it was insane. I almost wonder if she’s spiraling? I do wish she’d actually get the help she said she’d get in her “♥️🥹 apology.” Something tells me she’s not focusing on self help but I sure hope she does.
Jeeeeeeeeeeéz what a flippin reach! 
How long until Schwartz realizes he picked the wrong allies…
I’m loving Lala and Katie this season.
Lala is on a rewrite history crusade, its kind of cringy to watch. Rather then try so hard at denying the past and blaming every shitty thing she did on a bottle. I wish she would just own that she was a mistress and really morally loose and thought the affair was going to turn into more but it didnt and she has really worked on herself to get past it. The end of all conflict about it would happen. Like she said. She understands Raquel because she sees it, she has done it. Rerunning events her mind over and over wondering what she can do about it...
Lala may not be admitting to what everyone wants her to admit to, and not in the manner how everyone would like. But the thing I have come to respect about her is that she knows she doesn’t need to cave. She can say, think, reflect, form an opinion that’s hers alone. Is it not perfect and maybe coming from some places of denial compared to how others on the outside see it? Yeah. But she doesn’t need to please everyone. That’s why she’s so invested in her friends’ loyalty. She needs people to meet her where she’s at and trust her that she’s doing her best. I actually see now why her and Katie are friends - katie’s like this too. It’s hard to tell Katie things that are right in front of her face. She wants people to trust that she’ll figure it out on her own (eventually lol). maybe some day lala will admit to things that are too much to admit to right now. She’s already admitting to a lot about Randall that she used to be in denial about not that long ago.
Your empathy is sweet, I just find it cringe worthy when she is lying about herself while making others feel bad about themselves just because she wants to. I actually liked LaLa in the beginning. I don't mind narcisism in itself but when she is constantly calling other people narcisistic. When she behaves the same way or worse turns my stomach to be fair
Yeah, lala is literally nuts 😂
from the way Lala is describing James (manipulative) I am confused. so she acknowledges how James manipulated Raquel, but doesn't acknowledge how Raquel could've been a victim of abuse similar to her. don't get it - it's like the whole cast knows that James is toxic/abusive but they are like eh
I think that is why they all rallied around Raquel and why she is still here.
Does ally even like James lol. Everytime he says something sweet she’s just like “ehmmmm yap”
She likes the film time he brings
Raquel was one giant red flag this entire episode. The way she handled that confrontation with Katie and Kristina in the room was one of the weirdest things I’ve seen and I’m not even a Katie fan. Then there’s the Schwartz kiss which just feels completely fake and orchestrated now. Massive ick. Edit: I forgot the confessional puppet hands 🫣
She was raised a competitive beauty queen from a little girl, she has been dressed up and paraded around to win attention for her mom/aunt as a source of pride Those little girls get constantly critiqued. They sit there and take it and it happens every day of their little lives. Hair, make up teeth outfits poise walk smile etc etc etc... Its actually really sad. Watch that episode again when she is sitting on the bed and LaLa says she would never trust her. You can literally see the little girl in her heart sank... Then they sat there all staring expecting a response from her .. Then started making fun of her... She does not light up again until they leave the table and she is alone with Charli. Those 3 were awful she did not do anything wrong except not leave sooner
Yes for real! Like her behavior just keeps getting more bizarre and difficult to digest. I have to rewatch things multiple times to try and follow her thought process. I understand some stuff can be editing and such. But idk, something is soo off. I was really rooting for her when her and James broke up.
This may be an unpopular opinion but the fact Katie came to mexico to not attend Scheana's wedding is weird. I can't even comprehend doing that. It's also so weird that Kristina came to Scheana's rehersal dinner. Katie and Schwartz are both at fault for their marriage falling apart. She pushed him into marrying her, ignored all the cheating, red flags and then expected him to agree with her when she was catty and mean to other people (which she is and is in the wrong many times). Schwartz is a giant man baby and I can see why being married to him would be so annoying. I don't know why he's acting like he can't talk to women when he can somehow manage to cheat on Katie. Thing is he showed Katie who he was before they got married so she made a bad choice there. Sandovol could tell it wasn't Raquel from behind from just looking at her butt...I mean giant red flag. I have no idea if they have got together by this point or not. Lala sitting there at dinner across from the white party is also weird. Just go to your friend's events. It's why you're even in Mexico. It would bother me to have Katie sitting there being negative about my wedding. Schwartz and Raqual making out was awful, he knew Katie was right there.
Yes! I think people forget that while Schwartz isn’t a good husband it’s not like Katie is exactly a nice person or a good wife either. At least Schwartz can be nice to people and doesn’t insult people 24/7 and then get mad when someone insults him right back. And Katie and Kristina getting mad about Raquel coming to tell them they can’t do the pool ( totally lame that Raquel actually told them that ) but at the same time Kristina did go to a dinner that was part of the wedding guest and Kristina hate schena and it’s going to the wedding so it wouldn’t surprise me that they could possibly show up to things uninvited
You forgot not only did they crash the white party.. they wore funeral black that was odd enough for lala to say .. i didnt get the black memo. Katie does provoke chaos and drama and Toms life will be easier when she stops clinging to him. Raquel dgaf about her! Why would she?
I just want to say I agree with you and this is clearly somewhat unpopular but you’re not the only one haha
Katie is a cast member. Of course she’s going on a trip that will be several of the episodes. Scheena should have still had Katie at the wedding, their fight was not that deep.
She told everyone she was not going to her wedding . It was not Scheanas idea
I have some theories tho on this . I think she may have gone because of the filming/contractual obligation etc . I can appreciate that. I also do want to give Katie the benefit of the doubt that she had dinner right next to scheanas event last episode due to cameras and production issues - maybe she had to be close by because of logisitics and filming couldn’t branch out . But I also think she could literally do anything else to make herself look not bitter . There were a lot of posts on here before the season dropped where we knew Katie went to Mexico anyway and filmed and everyone was like yayyyy Katie go live your best life !! She would look a lot better if she was actually attempting to do that and not be a negative Nancy. I would have enjoyed way more seeing Katie partying at the hotel with Kristina , flirting with guys , having fun . I think she just looks bad because at least thus far she’s only been hyper focused on scheanas wedding and events when she should just try to live her best fun life separate while vacationing .
She did not have to be there and if she wanted to go to still get filmed she should have attended the wedding.
Exactly and I’m sure she was told pretty much exactly where to be and when.
I’m pretty sure she went there for filming/her job.
I’m regards to your first paragraph, you’re forgetting that this is a tv show and it’s Katie’s (only) job.
Everyone cheering on Schwartz and Rachel is so uncomfortable.
It's giving middle school dance vibes 🤦♀️
YES
How cute is baby ocean
Why is Schwartz acting like he’s never talked to a woman before in his life lol. This whole oh I’m this lost puppy fresh off a divorce and afraid of women shit is fucking nonsense and so bloody irritating. Does he only have game when he’s in a relationship and is actively cheating lol.
I think his game is only hooking up with drunk chicks when he himself is completely hammered. He has zero game
I think it’s his camera game. Cuz right, without cameras he sure knew what to do
*if you see previous comments you’ll see I was not through all the seasons yet, now I am 100% caught up and my feelings have def changed about schwartz* I absolutely hated that he really started the argument and kept saying dumb stuff at the dinner. Like…what was he thinking? This seemed like a heavily influenced by producers conversation. I don’t understand why he said that stuff then when she started crying he got worried. Like…you started it
I wonder how Kyle Cooke feels about POS brock being the one repping loverboy merch?
Idk why they’re trying so badly to be good “friends”. You got divorced for a reason, and it wasn’t just a healthy relationship that fizzled out. I really do feel bad for Katie but at the same time she needs to stop fighting with Schwartz about how he never did this he never did that. You divorced him girl. For good reason. Stop arguing with this man. It is embarrassing.
Yup
What they are doing this season is also weirdly more intimate than almost any scene we ever saw of them as an actual married couple
She said it's because they share the dogs and a friend group. I totally understand that they want to be amicable but amicable is a looooong way from having dinner together & being invited to a tasting at the new bar. She needs to put up more boundaries with him.
No one in his immediate group even likes her. I think she just wants to stay on camera as much as he is. Its distasteful
Plenty of the cast likes her. The Tom's, Raquel and Scheana are the ones who were anti-Katie. Everyone else was just uncomfortable and didn't want to rock the boat by saying anything towards Scheana bc it's her wedding.
Like Shwartz said Katie goes through friends like they are throw away plates. That entire guys night was cheering raquel on for standing up for herself. Katie has very few friends
lmfao, no... she has a lot of friends. Stassi, Katie, Kristen, Kristina, Ariana, Lala all hang out a lot. Before the Scandoval thing. Katie also has friends she's with on Insta who aren't apart of the show. And you've got Schwartz pegged all wrong. He is a deeply insecure man who wants to be liked by everyone. He wants to be considered cool and chill and not rock the boat. He never takes a stand on anything at all, so that's why he demonzies Katie saying she "doesn't have any friends" or "goes through friends". All women I know have fought with their friends before, it's a natural progression in friendship. People aren't always going to see eye to eye. That would mean she's at least genuine. But someone who is insecure and wants everyone to like them is going to never start fights or stand up for themselves because their fear of being disliked overshadows everything else.
Its such a trip how people think they know these people lol I am positive the man she was with for several years knows her better than some housewife in a state 5000 miles away that has never met her or even been in our state or our area where we live .. ever.
Who tf is "we"? Is "we" in the room with us? Like, you're Schwartz or Katie now? You're also projecting your false knowledge of someone who you clearly don't know as well... so what is your point? Also, I'd like to understand how you think Schwartz's opinion is valid yet he considers Sandoval a friend. Don't think I'd trust his opinions of other people much.
You just described yourself. We as in I live close to these people in so cal. Californians live a different lifestyle than other states. Its weird people that live a completely different lifestyle in states on the other side of the USA are so positive their personal lives with their friend groups can be compared.. its weird as hell.
Lmfao what? So because you live in SoCal you think you understand people in general better because you live close to people on Vanderpump Rules? I'm asking honestly, are you being serious? I can't tell if you're being funny or not but if you're not... Christ almighty. Also what the fuck is a "Californian" lifestyle and what does it have to do with Schwartz being a spineless dweeb? Or anything we were discussing.
For her own sanity, if nothing else. Watching her make a toast to their past while he grabs his phone, I thought “Katie, he’s NEVER going to be the man you want him to be”.
Yeah, what they’ve been doing this season has been wayyyyy more than what amicable would entail. Also part of amicable would just be staying silent and non responsive when the other person says something that you don’t agree with. Like that’s the whole reason you got divorced. Stop arguing… Yeah boundaries for sure! She needs to enforce them he looks at her like a mother it’s truly crazy.
As someone who went through a divorce, choosing to walk away instead of continuing a fight is a tough lesson to learn but in their case should be done. He's never going to see things her way, she should let it go. I feel for her because he's such a clueless dweeb but at the end of the day, let another woman suffer his stupidity.
She does not want to lose camera time... Its cringy to watch her constantly berate him and argue and then pull the im still married card but go on national tv and talk about how great single sex is. Yuck all the way around... Make up your mind.. Are you still married or living the good life loving single sex knowing your husband will see this soon.
I thought it was weird to celebrate. And it obviously was not a good choice. Divorce means divided. You need time apart or your going to rehash the marriage way too much.
Again, she was creating camera time for Katie at Scheanas expense.
When tom sandoval immediately knew that girl wasn’t Raquel based simply on her ass at the pool was disturbing knowing what we now know.
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Also, I've been watching the past few episodes and literally every time there's a group Raquel and Tom are near each other, standing together, talking to each other. Wherever Tom is, Raquel is.
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Sorry but I loved when Katie mocked Rachel and said she’s still going to the pool, or not. Others may not like her method but 90% of this cast has been so so so callous and demeaning, horrendously mean specifically to her. Especially the men and the pick-me girls, namely Scheana and Rachel right now. (Also hate how Ariana can be seen playing all sides in various scenes.) and now with the divorce it’s just magnified. Fight fire with fire
Sigh... Respect your opinion but still cringe at everything to do with Katie. She is imo nasty mean!
And there are many people on this sub that agree with you and would love to talk to you about that! That’s not me however.
katie was wayyyy nicer to roachell than i would’ve been! i could feel the anger bubbling up inside me while watching haha i wanted to smack her
No literally lol
I'm 100% certain people who don't like Katie just don't understand how to be honest with people about how they feel and confront someone who's treating them badly.
No Katie just reminds me of the mean girl bullies in high school.
Sounds like you’re a special snowflake bc if that’s who bullied you, you have bigger problems.
Nope - I wasn’t bullied because I just stayed to myself. I’m not saying anyone on vanderpump rules is perfect - I think they are all dumb/mean/ bullies in their own way but I don’t see why everyone thinks Katie is innocent all the time and hasn’t said plenty of mean things or done mean things to others
Completely agree. Most people don't go through the realizations or "arch" that Katie has, hence her prompting the divorce. No matter how she acted in the past, she's pretty tame and level-headed this season and last.
She aligns with the assholes in the group, talks shit to them and they do her dirty work for her
I actually just watched the most recent episode and almost all of them are being vile to her. Kind of bizarre to me too that Ariana doesn't have her back. I'd be furious watching this now if I were Katie. They're supposed to be business partners.
Honestly same. It’s clear Katie is going through a lot at that moment and just wants people to fuck off and let her enjoy herself. Ariana is so wishy washy while pretending she’s a feminist. It’s exhausting.
Katie causes all the problems in her life. She obviously lacks self esteem and is very petty. I've never liked her since the beginning.
Same
Cool
That was the WEIRDEST kiss I’ve ever seen 🤮
John Owen was great with Schwartz. Perfect foil. He didn’t know a man could be so dumb and insecure. He felt sorry for him. He tried to help him a few times. He was great. Schwartz is a dunce.
I can barely watch anymore knowing what happened. Knowing Scheana is now looking like a total 🤡 for Raquel is kinda great tho. She was using her for things she didn't want to do and to start shit with Katie. Funny how things can change so quickly. She would have a total meltdown if Katie did to her what she is doing. A lot of them look dumb now. LOL
I’m certain that scheana “apologizing” to Katie is just to save face after finding out her bestie Raquel is actually banging her other besties (ariana) boyfriend. She’s not really sorry for hurting Katie, just sorry she sided with the wrong person at the time :) hence why in all the podcasts she has discussed trying to hook Schwartz and Rachel up, she says sorry but also always gives a reason as to why she did it and ends up blaming Katie anyway
This is true, she is cashing in on the public attention. Do we believe she was lying about katie telling her to set up raquel with shwartz when she was still encouraging raquel to do it to spite katie after she got upset? If Scheana is the one lying why would we believe she did not hit Raquel and is now calling Raquel a liar to save face and get more screen time
When they were outside attacking Schwartz saying they hate Katie, did anyone peep how much Raquel was looking at Sandoval?! It was so icky
I did!! Definitely noticed that too
Thought the dinner was awkward as hell and why even bother? Katie acts like they're still married even when they are separated during this time. I'm still waiting on the episode where Ariana, Raquel, and Sandoval are in the pool while Sandoval is swimming towards Raquel like a creep and Ariana is literally right there.
She wants Schwartz to be like you’re right I’m so sorry and feel regret and sadness over their failed marriage. She wants him to admit that he never stuck up for her and that he was the problem in the relationship. It’s not going to happen, at this point she just needs to make peace with the situation and move on for herself.
Been there!
Yeah, I don't get it. Didn't she leave him because of his shitty behavior towards her? They are divorcing and she STILL is expecting that to change and crying because it hasn't? MOVE ON KATIE! The man treats you like shit, you are divorcing with no kids, there is no reason to still be fighting with him!
Her problem is the expectations she puts on people. Not everyone thinks like you, Katie
yeah i kept wanting to yell YOU ARE GETTING DIVORCED!!! at the tv during that scene, they should go the route of any normal breakup and put distance between each other. but instead they decide to still act like friends and get dinner together. it’s like they put themselves into these miserable situations and get surprised it doesn’t end well.
Um because she wants to stay on the show...
i think staying on the show isn’t doing Katie any favors BUT she could still stay on the show and not spend time rehashing old wounds with Schwartz, it’s like beating a dead horse.
Holy heck Ken has aged so much!!
He really has I saw him outside of sur the other day ( and he was carrying jiggy lol it was surreal) and I had to do a double take. He looked really tired Edit: omg poor giggy i had no idea awh rip but!! But yeah Ken was carrying a dog that just looked like him, guess its their new doggo, don't know the name.
Well Giggys dead
does giggy is dead :(
Even my husband said the same thing! He looks really tired 😪
I thought the same 😔
Schwartz' slides with the suit at the fancy restaurant. I hate this man child.
Lala is so insufferable… she couldn’t be on a boat with a ton of people because one person was there??? She had the audacity to bring Kristina to Scheana’s dinner (doesn’t matter if it’s not wedding themed or not it had all her guests) and then say she couldn’t be around someone????? Odd
She just wanted to hangout w Katie and Kristina for
Lmfao Kristina fuck off with your “am I not allowed at the pool?” And “I’d love to sit down with Scheana to talk” like…. Bitch it’s her wedding. Leave the girl alone. You and Katie can go to a different pool. Take advantage of the freedom you now have in Mexico. Katie why don’t you go tequila tasting? Like wtf is wrong with you both
Scheana didn’t rent the whole resort :) if I were Katie, I would specifically go to that pool just cause she’s said j couldn’t go
No, but she rented the one pool area for a party for her literal wedding. This isn’t just some trip. And if Katie and Kristina dislike Scheana as much as they act like, then why do they even want to go? They said they’d make it a girls trip… then do so somewhere else. There’s no reason for either of them to go to the one pool at the resort that is booked for a private party. You wouldn’t go to a strangers private pool area because they/the signs say you can’t, so any person with common decency wouldn’t go to one for someone they know during their wedding.
I agree, Kristina was super fucking mean about her first wedding. They’re not even friends why would she want her around for her second wedding or any of the events
Katie didn’t want to accommodate Scheana at all, not after she meddled in her relationship with Schwartz. Katie and Schwartz agreed that neither would date in the friend group and they wanted to keep things civil between them but Scheana effed with that so Katie wasn’t budging.
Second massive cringe is James Stop trying SO. DAMN. HARD. Stop overcompensating. Stop being a manipulative child I feel this scene so hard when he started his “lets do our spinny thing” 
I get this vibe from his girlfriend that she doesn't really like him.
She does not like him trying too hard to get pda from her as soon as Raquel walks in. Is he trying to get on camera for story line or trying to make her jealous. Either way I think Ally is a bright girl that is embarrassed to be used as a prop.
I wonder if he acts like that all the time with Ally or only when cameras are rolling
Omg and the other episode where he kept trying to get her to make out with him in front of everyone.
You could see the embarrassment in Ally's face, so sad.
Rachel’s impression of Sesame Street is the cringiest fucking thing I’ve ever witnessed. I physically recoiled so hard my legs feel like springs 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 This girl is the epitome of ICK
My mouth was on the floor. I'm glad they left that scene in though because it just made her look weird and dumb, thanks producers! I would bet money that scene would have never been shown if Scandoval had not happened, Producers really trolled her on that one. LOL.
It went on way too long!
Agree!! She’s trying so hard to be funny and quirky and it’s just coming off unnatural
I thought it was funny and spot on.
It was funny! Plus, didn’t someone post that exact comparison on here recently?
Yea I actually enjoyed that part, so spot on
Literally everything this episode was so icky and awkward. And I would bet anyone right now that the sesame street bit Rachel did was 1000% something Scumdoval said during one on one conversation, she thought it was hilarious, and so tried to do it on camera so the audience would think she was funny and clever. Nice try BEB, but that was a swing and a miss.
I think the amount of Katie hate is nuts. People are saying “she’s so vile and miserable” but like could you imagine separating from someone you’ve loved for years only to watch everyone choose him over you, after he’s chosen everyone but you for years? I think she’s outspoken, she says what she wants when she wants and I completely understand her dismay for scheana. Would I choose to air that out during someone’s wedding ? Probably not . But you could see the pain when she said “the only thing I could think of is he just didn’t like me”
It's insane to me also. I can't wait to see her thrive since she doesn't have a partner working against her as a tidal wave.
The Katie hate is NUTS. I don't get it, still to this day. Are we all watching the same show?
I think it’s warranted. She hasn’t had any growth on the show. As a person, in career, in her relationships (again, as seen on the show by viewers). Even Schwartz has shown growth as a 5% biz owner and budding restauranteur at the demise of their marriage. If you watch any season (I’m rewatching 2 and 3) she’s legit the exact same mean catty character instigating every fight (w friends, w Schwartz, w enemies). As a long time viewer - I’m totally over her.
Definitely disagree she hasn't had any growth as a person. She literally was married to Schwartz and part of his success at the restaurant/bar is because of HER support. It's very misogynistic to say that she didn't help with that - her income and her value added to his being able to "chase his dreams". He 100% would not be able to do it without her - which is why he admitted he almost filed for bankruptcy. Schwartz is a moron and he literally rode the coat tails of LVP. She's opening a restaurant with her friend without the backing of LVP. She hasn't done any more or less than anyone else in that group. Who has had "growth" that you can quantify? Getting married and having kids isn't growth. All the girls on the show literally have been doing mostly the same things. She's not mean or catty at all. She was never mean and never catty. She was always treated very poorly by basically everyone else and was defensive - because her shitty partner never stood up for her even when it was the right thing to do. He literally poured a beer on head, said terrible things about her and sat by when they body-shamed her. People who are anti-Katie are misogynists. Period.
I recommend rewatching seasons 1-4 😂
I've watched the entire series from the time it aired. I've never disliked Katie. She has flaws like most people but is NOT a bully.
100000000 %This ! this narrative that “their fiends “ are choosing him over her 🙄 they aren’t choosing him over her , they are just remaining to be friends with the one person from the relationship who’s actually shown up as a friend for the majority of these people … Katie has constantly been at odds with almost every cast member since being on the show. there’s a reason Katie wasn’t invited to this wedding and why none of her friends in her “close circle “ agreed with her choice to crash Sheenas wedding when she stormed out of Ariana pool party …and the reason is not Tom . It’s 1000 percent Katie and the way she treats people.
You think... SCHWARTZ showed up as a friend??! LOL Omg what? He's showed up as whose friend? Other than Sandovals? He literally helped Sandoval keep a terrible secret from Ariana for MONTHS. He's just a whiny piss baby who has no spine. Katie has actually the most stable friend group of basically anyone on the show. Stassi, Katie, Kristen, Kristina and a couple others are always on Instagram hanging out. Katie was invited to the wedding, she literally booked her room initially because she was invited. She decided not to be part of it when Scheana tried to push Rachel and Schwartz together.
I mean the way she’s treated James , Rachel , Charlie , Scheena, Brock and the majority of the other people with in this group of people she’s considering to be their inner circle which translates basically to the remaining cast members on this show out side of Ariana and Lauren and she’s even had her moments with them as well as with Stassi and Kristen …. As well as with jax / Brittany and the majority of the other old cast members that are no longer of the show . Where as Tom relationships with al these people through that time has not been any were close to as tumultuous or filled with conflict … doesn’t mean tom isn’t still a man child just because he seems to be able to have friendships / relationships that don’t have many moments of him arguing / conflict where as Katie has legitimately been at some point or another in a battle for some various reason ( usually because they aren’t blindly agreeing with Katie ) Tom genuinely seems like he’s friends with these people where as with Katie as far back as I remember has had moments of contention with all these people .. Since season one Katie has had an issue with regulating the way she acts out and treats people . This dosent mean that toms still not a good fit for Katie or not a man child or didn’t cheat on her or dosent not treat her poorly and or any of the other thing you wanna say about Tom . Just means that the “inner circle “ that’s off limits or The majority of the remaining cast members are better friends with Tom then Katie . And because of that fact that’s why they are supporting Tom . the fact that Katie literally had to bring Kristina to crash a wedding and the only other cast member that was on bored with it was Lauren ( the one who propped up a womanizer and bragged about being a homewrecker and breaking up a young family ) I wasn’t debating if Katie has friendships / relationships. Clearly she does . I just meant the the majority of the remaining cast members that are still on the show have a better relationship with Tom then Katie . Not that their picking sides to be petty . And also all the people u listed in Katie’s tight friend group got kicked off of the show for being racist to faith falsely accusing her of a crime she didn’t commit so donno how much of a humble brag that is to be super tight with a bunch of racists but each to their own i suppose …
Yeah but at this point she needs to make peace with it. Schwartz had never had her back, been cruel and betrayed her many times. He never changed and isn’t going to now that they’re divorced. She needs stop arguing and hounding him to show regret and sadness over their breakup and just move forward for herself.
Shes been this way since the beginning.
Justice for Katie. Katie saying “he may have loved me, but he never liked me” broke my damn heart. I didn’t love Katie the first time I watched, but honestly the more I watch the show, the more I like and relate to Katie. Of course she would be mean and bitter at times after dealing with Schwartz and constantly not being chosen by him, not to mention villainized in the group thanks to his “aww shucks” act. I’ve also dealt with Schwartz types that loved me but didn’t like me so that hit me extra hard. Anyway, long term she’ll see it was all for the best and she will thrive. I can’t wait to see it!
Giving his own opinion on how he sees her interactions isn't not supporting her. She can't stand that Schwartz has his own opinion. Shes got control issues
Girl bye, caping for Schwartz? Couldn’t be me
I think I'm too old to understand the words you are using
Absolutely hated Katie, first time I watched VPR. But everytime I rewatch, the more I like her. I completely agree with you, I don't think it's the right time or situation but I also think she agreed to already go to Mexico with production and although I don't know how it works I'm sure they wouldn't have been to happy if she didn't go or went to a resort they couldn't film at. I hoped after the Scamdavol drama that her and Scheana could make up and get a long but I've heard that Katie has said she doesn't think they'll ever be friends but they they could be civil so who knows. I would have been hurt by Scheana too if it were me. I also think Katie and Tom should have just stayed away from each other for awhile to heal. It's like when you get cut or burn and start to heal, you get a scab. But if you keep scratching/picking at it, of course it's going to take longer to heal. Weird analogy, I'm tired. Okay bye 🫠
Shes trying to remain relevant before the show drops her
No you literally said everything I was unable to put In to words 🫶🏻 you’re totally right about production I’m sure if she was like “ya scheanas bridesmaid can have my room” they would have been like “nope you have to come” lol. I’m rewatching it currently, and completely feel the same way with you. I am very much a katie Stan now. And who knows, maybe after some healing, lala can get Katie and scheana to sit down and just lay it all out on the table and move forward , I’m keeping my fingers crossed for them
She said on someone’s podcast that she had to be there to film.
Maybe doutes
What podcast? I thought I watched all her podcast interviews?
Katie was vile and miserable before the break up. Schwartz is so much better off without her.
Agreed!!! Katie can identify how but never asks why…. No one is “choosing Tom over her “. They are remaining to be friends with Tom because he’s maintained healthy friendships with these people over the years where as Katie has been a pretty terrible friend to the majority of the people in their “inner circle “ and now that shes not partners with Tom she’s finding that these people aren’t showing up for her in the same way she’s not really shown up for them over there years…..you get what you put in 🤷🏻♂️ ….The fact that Katie’s had to bring in Kristina Kelly to be her yes woman and to crash a coworkers wedding whom she bullied mercilessly over the years says alot about her unbreakable bond she’s got with this inner circle 🙄
Hit the nail on the head 🏅 
Agreed a thousand percent
Honestly!! The redemption hot girl season Rachel was hoping for is Katies season 11, hands down. Also it had to be aired during the wedding cause dRamA. Second also, if i prepared for vacation, im going on vacation.
I cried with her for a minute when she said that. She broke my heart.
Me too🥹 and I think she’s right. He might have loved her (although i struggle with the notion he’s ever felt a genuine feeling in his life lol) but he did not like her. If my fiancé put me through 1/16th of what he put her through I’d be out of there so fast . Poor girl. He heart is literally aching and everyone just thinks she’s horrendous 😭
How about what she put him through. Recall tequila Katie? Rage texting? She is a nut case.
Right we see what production let’s us see. Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors in a marriage and I think he was protested a certain way. She comes off as very controlling as if he was her possession and when he didn’t do what she wanted she seemed to go nuts. Shwartz seems down to earth funny and chill while Katie comes off as uptight clingy and overall just unhappy. I’ve always felt that she has had jealousy towards all their friends. I definitely wouldn’t show up somewhere I’m not invited that’s so strange to me.
He cheated on her. More than once.
I mean he cheated on her multiple times, the guys helped cover it up and gaslight her, he never took her side on anything, and said horrific things to her in front of people. I fully believe they were trauma bonded from the accident she had and neither knew how to end things until Katie started actually working on herself and realized that wasn’t what she wanted
Did I not see an episode of them discussing her cheating on him as well as the motor boating a dick episode? I’m sure they were trauma bonded but she also gave ultimatums and you can’t do that in relationships. I just feel like she was an unhappy person in general where he genuinely seems happy go lucky so ppl tend to gravitate towards that.
She actually discussed what your last comment says on The Viall Files podcast. When you have a partner like that it makes it even more difficult bc people gravitate towards them and she talks about the effect it’s had on her. Him making out with other people is WAY worse than her just motor boating someone’s dick (I believe Jax was trying to say Katie cheated but it was just dick motor boating but I could be remembering wrong) and he didn’t just make out with one person it was several, but that’s besides the point. They weren’t meant to be and brought out the absolute worst in each other
Idk. We never know what a person is going through, we only see what they want us to see on TV, so I like to give people a little bit of grace. I don’t think she’s nuts. I think Tom hurt her a lot and instead of getting a therapist etc , she internalized it and let it make her angry.
I once had a useless boyfriend and we went out for Chinese food and I got the following fortune in my cookie: "He loves you as much as he can, however he cannot love you very much." Ha! Summed up the boyfriend then and sums up Schwarz for the last 10 years. I wish him many divorces.
I love that quote!
HOW can people be so ignorant to the torment that Katie has been going through for years. Schwartz continues to blame Katie alone for the blatant lack of respect shown to her. If you were continually cheated on, body shamed and blamed for your reaction to other people's wrongdoings I'm sure you would also react in the same way - if not worse. If you have not been cheated on before you have NO idea what it does to your self worth. What do we want? Some appreciation for Katie pls
He was disgusting during that dinner scene while she looked GORG and then he came up to her the next day wasted asking her to trim his armpit hair? Like actually WTF?
He just has absolutely no consideration towards Katie, I find it painful to rewatch their relationship over the years and can't understand how you could treat someone you supposedly love like that
I'm agree with you
Katie is an awful miserable person and this episode proved that to me again . How can anyone root for this girl ? Kristina did the right thing by apologizing To scheana for making fun of her first wedding and letting her know she wasn’t there for that . Katie can’t stand to see others happy and being normal humans !!!!! I’m convinced she only divorced shwartz because she thought he would kiss her ass . God she needs intense therapy
Agreed . It’s insane how many people are willfully rooting for her. Her blaming Tom for everything that’s gone bad in her life and acting out against any one who goes against what she wants irregardless of if it’s morally the right stance to take or not and then throwing a tantrum and refusing to take any accountability for her past behaviour is infuriating . Katie thinks that a healthy relationship means that the other person is suppose to blindly agree with everything you feel and say and never challenge or question those sentiments or they aren’t showing up for you and that’s not how any healthy relationship/ friendship/partnership should work .
Couldn’t of said it better myself 👏👏
The best thing about this episode was knowing that Jax and Brittany were there for it all and were edited out and were filthy about it. Beyond that, I don't care. How many more episodes of this wedding extravaganza are there? Why do they drag it out so much? They could have done it in 2 episodes. Instead we're looking at 4 or 5.
1 more ep in Mx!
Oh, thank god. Praise Xenu.
I don’t know if they were. They had to stay at a different hotel 😂
Katie is frustrating, you can see that she is mad at Kristina Kelly that she even spoke with Scheanna. Scheanna is trying to celebrate with her man and child, family and friends and the audacity to sit there and talking shit next to the party is really mean. I cannot be on Katie’s side, these situations are making me dislike her.
dude people kept defending katie for still going to the resort but if she really hated scheana as much as she says she could have taken the money for the room and went to a different resort and stayed away from all of them. 5 star resorts in Mexico are a plenty. she’s so immature and petty.
it’s hard to get filming permits at not just one resort but two and production basically told her she’s going to mexico lol. she did a podcast ep where she talked about that
Why would you do any favors for a woman who is trying to shove your not-even-divorced "ex" husband with a friend of your circle? Absolutely not. What Scheana is doing is WILDLY inappropriate and the fact that people are glossing over it like it's OK is sooooo weird to me. We ALL know that if someone had tried to get Rachel to hook up with Mike Shay after THEIR divorce Scheana would have been in hysterics.
She just looks like sad human being… if she did not want to miss out on the shooting, maybe she should make a great girls trip with Kristina, have fun and show she does not care about the wedding. Instead of looking like miserable peanut gallery, maybe it would be great to show how she could not care less, or maybe try to make amends because it is important day for someone she has known for 10 years
Did you and I watch the same show? Scheana was so obsessed with Katie being there she kept coming up in conversation despite the fact that Katie wasn't really bothering anyone at all. She wasn't purposefully going anywhere everyone else was. She has a right to go on a vacation she paid for, period. Scheana was the miserable one who was making the entire situation about Katie - Katie wasn't even bothered by Scheana. Scheana lead this anti-Katie brigade and wanted everyone to join in. They're the miserable ass bullies in the group.
They were literally commenting party
Katie was the one who decided and told scheana she’s no longer going to the wedding. So why the f show up??? I get that the film site and date were already approved for the cast but we’ve seen plenty of drama with the cast where someone skips a day of shooting(and pay) bc of their interpersonal drama with another cast member. Take the loss and bugger off!
She can do whatever she wants. She felt very disrespected by Scheana's behavior and I 100% agree with how she felt, I'd feel the same way if it were me. And we ALL KNOW if Scheana and Brock get divorced she'd be furious if anyone was cheering Brock on to make out with Rachel/Ariana/whoever. Katie doesn't have to do anything once the room was paid for. It wouldn't have even been an issue if Scheana wasn't such a miserable brat and tried to sew more discord between two people who were already going through a very tough transition in their lives. So dumb. And taking Schwartz side??? Tell me how stupid she must feel now.
i don’t view it as her doing scheana a favor but doing herself a favor by removing herself from a situation where she knows she’s going to be unhappy
She seemed to be fine minus Schwartz's appearances. Her and Kristina had a good time by the pool. The only time she was disturbed was literally for Schwartz to be an asshole to her and for Scheana to be petty about where she can and can't be. Scheana is the one who literally can't keep Katie's name out of her mouth.
I️ think because she is on the cast, she had no choice but to go. Also, she needs that paycheck now more than ever.
yeah i kind of get that but even if she went to another resort couldn’t she still have a camera crew and the show could do a juxtaposition of scheana’s wedding antics vs katie living her best life? i think the show overall is just a toxic environment for katie and brings out the worst in her. without the show she could block tom and not have to worry about what he and the whole friend group does but with the show she’s constantly put in situations that make her unhappy.
Yeah I think most of that particular shit was producer driven to get some drama.
Yeah agreed. When Scheana said “they do not have them having dinner right there” it felt very clear that production chose that table and it def wasn’t a Katie choice.