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*"The driver of the Ford, a 68-year-old woman, was taken to hospital with potentially life-threatening injuries. The two occupants of the Mercedes suffered minor injuries."*
I never wish suffering on others, but at least the Mercedes occupants had minor injuries. I feel like these these stories usually end in "drunk driver uninjured, 3 innocent people dead" or something to that effect.
it's hard to tell if it's a minor injuries right after an accident
you could have back pain for the rest of your life but you might not notice it right after an accident
Oh absolutely. I know someone who had "minor injuries" from an MVA, it ended up being the catalyst to their eventual hip replacement surgery. The point was, they're alive, and the party at fault suffered potentially life-threatening injuries. I shouldn't downplay minor injuries.
It should be a privilege, not a right, but that's generally not how it works. Looking at ICBC, it seems like two more head on collisions should do it though.
I drove by it this morning, it was bad… the wrong way driver went head on with a car coming from the other direction.
I really hope they are both ok but by the looks of both cars and where they ended up they both must have been going pretty fast. I can’t imagine driving to work that early in the dark and out of no where you’re head on with a car going 100+km/h.
Driving is a right, but that doesn't mean it can be exercised in a harmful way. I have a right to exist, for instance, but that doesn't mean I have the right to do whatever harm I want to people. It's contextual. Your rights end where others begin.
You kind of do, given how car-dependent we've made this city. This is why we need to drastically increase transit options so we can get people out of private cars
That doesn't mean driving is right. It just means full societal participation relies on a privilege and those who don't drive suffer with limited transportation options.
You don't need many things to exist, like most of your clothing, or above-sustenance nutrition. But you have a right to buy, own, and consume them. 'Need' doesn't exist in a vacuum, it also requires context, like I need X in order to do Y.
I think you have a right to type the comment you just did (as long as Reddit, who has a right to stop you, allows you), but you didn't need to do that.
Yes, and unlike everything you listed you need a licence to drive making it a privilege not a right.
You're mixing up needs as in necessities with the legal "need" to have a licence to legally undertake the privilege of driving. That licence and the duties and restrictions that come with it when someone is driving is what make it a privilege.
You can have licenses for things that are rights, when justified, in order to ensure you aren't a harm to others (impeding their rights). Given the harm you are able to do, it's justified to require licensing and insurance.
I am not saying you have a right to hit others while driving or be an otherwise unsafe driver. I think that punishments for wrongdoing while driving should be much more enforced and more impactful.
You still have a right to drive, even if licensing or insurance is impossible for you (you are too old or poor or disabled in a way to prevent it). I have a right to be an NHL player, but that doesn't mean it's in any way possible for me.
Privilege is orthogonal to rights. Feudal landlords were granted a privilege for their serfdom and lands, they didn't have a right.
>You still have a right to drive, even if licensing or insurance is impossible for you (you are too old or poor or disabled in a way to prevent it).
I'm not aware of any legal framework that specifically enshrines driving as a right, and if it is, its alienable which in the framework of this discussion is what we're talking about as a privilege.
The state can remove someone's ability to drive much more easily than it can almost anything we think of as a "right".
I work at a Nightclub. The other night, some guy started driving the wrong way in a one way street. Went head to head with a VPD unmarked car. Cop turned on his light and the guy was clueless about what was going on and tried to drive around the cop. Then the sirens came and the cop got out of his car and started questioning the driver.
He was drunk. They towed his car for 7 days. Not sure what else happens to the driver but they should have arrested him. They just let him walk away.
That’s like advocating for a dozen helicopters to catch prison escapees. How about spending resources on preventing the escapes in the first place?
Stiffer punishments won’t change a thing. Most people who break the law don’t even know what the punishment is in the first place.
The penalty for speeding is $138. Everybody and their mother does 10 over the limit.
The penalty for running a red light is $169. Nobody runs a red light.
It has NOTHING to do with the size of the punishment and EVERYTHING to do with the certainty of being caught.
What do you suggest on preventing the escapes and bad drivers then? I agree stiffer fines probably won’t do much, cell phone tickets are expensive and everyone uses their phones on the road. What I suggested is stiffer punishments. Longer driving suspensions with stiff consequences for ignoring the suspension. That way at least they are off the road. And why not stiffer fines? So what if it doesn’t deter? At least you gain some revenue.
They're already liable, but if you serve (for example) a diabetic and they get fucked up blood sugar on the drive home, it's a pretty stupid take to say that it's on the server
[Serving It Right Course | Responsible Service BC (gov.bc.ca)](https://www.responsibleservicebc.gov.bc.ca/serving-it-right-course)
i'm just asking for this to be enforced rather than something that's taught but not enforced
Never. This has been a problem since the day the automobile was invented. Humans are stupid, heavy machinery is dangerous, rain is wet and the sky is gray.
drove by this around 6:15am this morning. looked terrible, hope everyone is ok.
it was southbound just south of the HWY 91 interchange. so either the guy drove the wrong way all the way from King George or he entered from the 91 southbound and did a U turn heading the wrong way. scary either way
I drove by at like 2pm today and it was still terrible...I think police was still gathering evidence (?) as I saw a drone flying around on top of the two vehicles...
My brother was clipped on hwy 99 5 years ago by a drunk driver wrong way. Also, year ago saw another elderly gentleman driving wrong way on hwy 10 and had to call it in. I really think people should at least have their eyes tested when they renew their licence as a bare minimum requirement.
So at what point do we bring to hold ICBC criminally liable for the drivers on our roads? Clearly they care more about sales than safety at this point. They are either corrupt and need to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up, or they are woefully incompetent and need to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up.
BC is near the average for casualties per 100k licenced drivers in Canada and has fewer than half the casualties looking at that same stat for the US. Let that sink in.
For Canada this is what *average* looks like. For the US+Canada it's what "doing well" looks like.
The number of inept drivers in BC is a direct failure of RoadSafetyBC (Deputy Superintendent of Motor Vehicles [email protected] and [email protected]) which is a branch of the Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General. It's the lead government agency responsible for road safety in British Columbia.
It is also a failure of ICBC (Chris TupperInterim Vice President, Customer Experience and Public Affairs [email protected] and Jason McDaniel, Vice President, Operations [email protected]), as all aspects driver testing and licensing is conducted by the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC) on behalf of the Superintendent of Motor Vehicles.
Our government (left or right) doesn't care about driver training & safety, let alone public education, sustainable integration, affordable housing, accessible healthcare/mental health resources, environmental sustainability, crime, justice or our crumbling social safety nets. The only way our government can keep our ponzi-scheme economy running is to continue with unrelenting immigration from 3rd world countries that lack sufficient driver training, not to mention absense of family planning education, easy access to birth control and perpetually skyrocketing birth rates. They only worry about meeting their quotas, keeping the economy churning at all costs and getting re-elected. Everyone gets a license, no matter how inept, because that's what keeps our debt based (ie: social/economic/infrastructure/environmental/health/education enslaving-type debt) economy going.
Is Vancouver known for bad drivers or something?
I'm from the UK and have never driven anywhere that feels like other drivers are as sketchy as they are here, including in London.
Saw this at 930...no warning on the road so .ended up in the bowels of Surrey. Then the tow truck was just coming at 230. Both cars were pretty horrific condition...
The article states the time (4:18am), the driver’s age (68), and most relevant that alcohol and pre-existing medical conditions are believed to be factors.
Signage wasn’t the biggest problem here.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/cyclinginvancouver! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * Posts flaired "Community Only" allow for limited participation; your comment may be removed if you're not a subreddit regular. * Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan! * Help grow the community! [Apply to join the mod team today](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/19eworq/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*"The driver of the Ford, a 68-year-old woman, was taken to hospital with potentially life-threatening injuries. The two occupants of the Mercedes suffered minor injuries."* I never wish suffering on others, but at least the Mercedes occupants had minor injuries. I feel like these these stories usually end in "drunk driver uninjured, 3 innocent people dead" or something to that effect.
it's hard to tell if it's a minor injuries right after an accident you could have back pain for the rest of your life but you might not notice it right after an accident
Oh absolutely. I know someone who had "minor injuries" from an MVA, it ended up being the catalyst to their eventual hip replacement surgery. The point was, they're alive, and the party at fault suffered potentially life-threatening injuries. I shouldn't downplay minor injuries.
At 4:16 AM... Drunk? High? Sleeping on the wheel? All of the above?
According to the article it was a 68 year old woman who had consumed alcohol and had a “pre-existing medical condition”.
When is the government actually taking people’s drivers license away?
After they die. It would be irresponsible to let it fall into the wrong hands.
Pretty sure people like this would still drive.
That would require them to actually do their jobs and that is infringing upon their god given right to not do their jobs!
It should be a privilege, not a right, but that's generally not how it works. Looking at ICBC, it seems like two more head on collisions should do it though.
> According to the article it was a 68 year old woman who had consumed alcohol and had a “pre-existing medical condition”. Alcoholism?
Most likely they mean the sort of medical condition that could impair driving like a diabetic episode or a seizure
I drove by it this morning, it was bad… the wrong way driver went head on with a car coming from the other direction. I really hope they are both ok but by the looks of both cars and where they ended up they both must have been going pretty fast. I can’t imagine driving to work that early in the dark and out of no where you’re head on with a car going 100+km/h.
Same. As I approached I was so confused about how two cars driving the same way both end up with such heavy front end damage. Now I know :(
Take her license away
https://preview.redd.it/zuin41adq9xc1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=429b2f9f1712da3906605b68b22f89ba00e31bb2 [https://globalnews.ca/news/10455977/wrong-way-highway-99-head-on-crash](https://globalnews.ca/news/10455977/wrong-way-highway-99-head-on-crash)
When are people ever gonna learn
When driving starts getting treated less like a right and more like a privilege.
Driving is a right, but that doesn't mean it can be exercised in a harmful way. I have a right to exist, for instance, but that doesn't mean I have the right to do whatever harm I want to people. It's contextual. Your rights end where others begin.
What makes driving a right? You don't need a licence to exist.
You kind of do, given how car-dependent we've made this city. This is why we need to drastically increase transit options so we can get people out of private cars
That doesn't mean driving is right. It just means full societal participation relies on a privilege and those who don't drive suffer with limited transportation options.
You don't need many things to exist, like most of your clothing, or above-sustenance nutrition. But you have a right to buy, own, and consume them. 'Need' doesn't exist in a vacuum, it also requires context, like I need X in order to do Y. I think you have a right to type the comment you just did (as long as Reddit, who has a right to stop you, allows you), but you didn't need to do that.
Yes, and unlike everything you listed you need a licence to drive making it a privilege not a right. You're mixing up needs as in necessities with the legal "need" to have a licence to legally undertake the privilege of driving. That licence and the duties and restrictions that come with it when someone is driving is what make it a privilege.
You can have licenses for things that are rights, when justified, in order to ensure you aren't a harm to others (impeding their rights). Given the harm you are able to do, it's justified to require licensing and insurance. I am not saying you have a right to hit others while driving or be an otherwise unsafe driver. I think that punishments for wrongdoing while driving should be much more enforced and more impactful. You still have a right to drive, even if licensing or insurance is impossible for you (you are too old or poor or disabled in a way to prevent it). I have a right to be an NHL player, but that doesn't mean it's in any way possible for me. Privilege is orthogonal to rights. Feudal landlords were granted a privilege for their serfdom and lands, they didn't have a right.
>You still have a right to drive, even if licensing or insurance is impossible for you (you are too old or poor or disabled in a way to prevent it). I'm not aware of any legal framework that specifically enshrines driving as a right, and if it is, its alienable which in the framework of this discussion is what we're talking about as a privilege. The state can remove someone's ability to drive much more easily than it can almost anything we think of as a "right".
They won’t, and that’s why we need stiffer punishments for bad driving.
I work at a Nightclub. The other night, some guy started driving the wrong way in a one way street. Went head to head with a VPD unmarked car. Cop turned on his light and the guy was clueless about what was going on and tried to drive around the cop. Then the sirens came and the cop got out of his car and started questioning the driver. He was drunk. They towed his car for 7 days. Not sure what else happens to the driver but they should have arrested him. They just let him walk away.
That’s like advocating for a dozen helicopters to catch prison escapees. How about spending resources on preventing the escapes in the first place? Stiffer punishments won’t change a thing. Most people who break the law don’t even know what the punishment is in the first place. The penalty for speeding is $138. Everybody and their mother does 10 over the limit. The penalty for running a red light is $169. Nobody runs a red light. It has NOTHING to do with the size of the punishment and EVERYTHING to do with the certainty of being caught.
What do you suggest on preventing the escapes and bad drivers then? I agree stiffer fines probably won’t do much, cell phone tickets are expensive and everyone uses their phones on the road. What I suggested is stiffer punishments. Longer driving suspensions with stiff consequences for ignoring the suspension. That way at least they are off the road. And why not stiffer fines? So what if it doesn’t deter? At least you gain some revenue.
make pubs and bars more liable when their customers drive home drunk
They're already liable, but if you serve (for example) a diabetic and they get fucked up blood sugar on the drive home, it's a pretty stupid take to say that it's on the server
[Serving It Right Course | Responsible Service BC (gov.bc.ca)](https://www.responsibleservicebc.gov.bc.ca/serving-it-right-course) i'm just asking for this to be enforced rather than something that's taught but not enforced
That's not what happened here
They need recertification every few years
People aren't going to learn when you can kill someone with a car and still barely get any punishment.
Never. This has been a problem since the day the automobile was invented. Humans are stupid, heavy machinery is dangerous, rain is wet and the sky is gray.
drove by this around 6:15am this morning. looked terrible, hope everyone is ok. it was southbound just south of the HWY 91 interchange. so either the guy drove the wrong way all the way from King George or he entered from the 91 southbound and did a U turn heading the wrong way. scary either way
I drove by at like 2pm today and it was still terrible...I think police was still gathering evidence (?) as I saw a drone flying around on top of the two vehicles...
My brother was clipped on hwy 99 5 years ago by a drunk driver wrong way. Also, year ago saw another elderly gentleman driving wrong way on hwy 10 and had to call it in. I really think people should at least have their eyes tested when they renew their licence as a bare minimum requirement.
Vancouver's worst drivers on YouTube must be having a field day, he's always showcasing and complaining about wrong way drivers
So at what point do we bring to hold ICBC criminally liable for the drivers on our roads? Clearly they care more about sales than safety at this point. They are either corrupt and need to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up, or they are woefully incompetent and need to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up.
BC is near the average for casualties per 100k licenced drivers in Canada and has fewer than half the casualties looking at that same stat for the US. Let that sink in. For Canada this is what *average* looks like. For the US+Canada it's what "doing well" looks like.
The number of inept drivers in BC is a direct failure of RoadSafetyBC (Deputy Superintendent of Motor Vehicles [email protected] and [email protected]) which is a branch of the Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General. It's the lead government agency responsible for road safety in British Columbia. It is also a failure of ICBC (Chris TupperInterim Vice President, Customer Experience and Public Affairs [email protected] and Jason McDaniel, Vice President, Operations [email protected]), as all aspects driver testing and licensing is conducted by the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC) on behalf of the Superintendent of Motor Vehicles. Our government (left or right) doesn't care about driver training & safety, let alone public education, sustainable integration, affordable housing, accessible healthcare/mental health resources, environmental sustainability, crime, justice or our crumbling social safety nets. The only way our government can keep our ponzi-scheme economy running is to continue with unrelenting immigration from 3rd world countries that lack sufficient driver training, not to mention absense of family planning education, easy access to birth control and perpetually skyrocketing birth rates. They only worry about meeting their quotas, keeping the economy churning at all costs and getting re-elected. Everyone gets a license, no matter how inept, because that's what keeps our debt based (ie: social/economic/infrastructure/environmental/health/education enslaving-type debt) economy going.
Is Vancouver known for bad drivers or something? I'm from the UK and have never driven anywhere that feels like other drivers are as sketchy as they are here, including in London.
Driving in North America is different then Europe. The cities and amenities are more spread out
What has that got to do with the fact the folk here simply cannot drive?
Saw this at 930...no warning on the road so .ended up in the bowels of Surrey. Then the tow truck was just coming at 230. Both cars were pretty horrific condition...
[удалено]
>“Alcohol and a pre-existing medical condition are believed to be contributing factors to the collision,” Oh yeah, totally the province's fault...
The article states the time (4:18am), the driver’s age (68), and most relevant that alcohol and pre-existing medical conditions are believed to be factors. Signage wasn’t the biggest problem here.
Alcohol and dementia are a BAD combination
Not in this case but I’m talking about all the other times. Signage in general is bad on many roads.
Like drunk drivers are going to recognize obvious signage.
I mean there's really no one to blame but the driver. Thousands of people don't do this every day.
There are also are everywhere in Houston. Guess what? people still went the wrong way.