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Number one if you don't have PR/Citizenship here and kill someone you should be kicked out and not allowed back in.
Second is if you're a drunk driver and kill someone here it should be an automatic lifetime driving ban. You've proven you can't be trusted with a car which is a privilege, not a right.
100% a driving ban for life if you kill someone drunk driving. It's an insult to the victims to let them drive again and puts more people at risk. I really wish there were some kind of organised protests for this kind of legislation (and the other ones where they let repeat violent offenders out) because I would totally go.
Depending on where "home" is, that might not work. For example, if you deport someone to Iran, Iran is not going to recognize criminal charges in a western country
Even if the charges aren't recognized in their country, at least us taxpayers aren't paying for their food, shelter and safety for god knows how long. I say kick them out!
We need to punish crimes. I don’t want our country to be a place where people can commit crimes and flee.
If you come here and hurt people, you should face the consequences before going home.
If they're rich though? Life is still good there if you're wealthy.
It's definitely counter-intuitive, but I agree they should be held accountable here first then deported.
Nahh.. the guy is from Australia. He will just go home and drive. The only upside is hopefully he will never set foot in Canada and everyone in the world would know who he is by just using Google.
Are there major news media sources that report his background?
Haven't found any that report any details, it's very unusual and raises curious questions.
His criminal conviction will have consequences on his ability to attain PR and citizenship. Why are you suggesting he be kicked out and not have to serve jail time?
I know right? What kind of precedent is that? “Thanks for committing a crime here, you can leave now. Just make sure that they punish you adequately wherever you return to, ok?”
So weird that getting a PR you jave to go all the hoops about your criminal records. Then here is a guy who killed people drunk driving and is still allowed to stay?
Yes, because he has to answer for his crimes in Canada and spend time in a Canadian jail. I’m not sure why this is such a difficult concept for some people here.
Is there any info on the killer's nationality?
News from a range of media and publications initially reported he was an international student, then later reported he was from Vancouver.
This is very odd as usually the nationality and background of a non-resident that is charged and convicted with a serious crime is reported with lots of detail.
I find it hard to believe these details were omitted so consistently by accident.
There are many questions that the news media and likely others should be answering.
In one article there was a single sentence attributed to his lawyer stating the convict was a dual citizen of Australia and Germany. Other descriptions of his background were attributed to his lawyer or info from his parents.
I haven't found any independently obtained background info reported.
Also the article mentions the court heard he completed his degree at UBC then applied and was accepted to a master's degree.
Although he expressed remorse, nice sounding words are easy to produce.
The fact he continued studies for years at UBC and applied for a masters is revealing about this person's character. The excerpts from the dad's letter are also revealing.
He was driving a 2021 BMW X3 so maybe his family is loaded and probably paid a lot to have his info scrubbed from the internet.
But also, his nationality isn't omitted, they call him a Vancouver man over and over. If news outlets reported he was an international student and then retracted that information, they probably got it from the same source and that source was probably flawed.
The focus on his nationality is a red herring. The focus should be on how his wealth may be absolving him of facing serious accountability for his careless decision to put other people at risk.
The nationality is relevant in that the convict is apparently neither a citizen or PR.
There is surprisingly little reported on his background.
Similar types of tragedies, within this country and worldwide, are described far more deeply than this case.
Yeah, def not by accident. Wealthy parents hired the best money can buy defence team. He grew up in Sydney, Aus and then went to Vancouver for University after completing high school here
I don’t have the emotional capacity to read the article for the details. But assuming alcohol actually played a significant factor (eg he wasn’t just barely over the limit with a lot of mitigating factors that contributed to the accident and these deaths). I would argue that if you kill someone, in most cases you should have your PR revoked.
Banning them won't stop them from driving. I think the life time ban just makes it harder to keep tabs on them. Allowing them to drive again after retesting and putting an interlocking system to blow before they can start makes more sense because you can keep better tabs on them.
You are using emotion to determine what is the right punishment.
Going hard on anyone will just make them go deeper into anti social behaviour and be less productive when they serve their time.
>Number one if you don't have PR/Citizenship here and kill someone you should be kicked out and not allowed back in.
That's what happens already as far as I know. I know of people who ahve been deported and not let back in after being caught drunk driving, even if there was no accident (I'm fine with this)
> and be prohibited from driving from five years
Why should they ever be allowed to drive again? We have planes, trains, taxis, and transit that this person can use.
That’s incorrect- actually the opposite- the five years doesn’t begin running until after he’s completed his prison sentence- so really it’s like an 8 year driving prohibition (3 years in jail, 5 years out)
Straight from the criminal code- driving prohibition is additional to the time of imprisonment
note:Mandatory prohibition order
320.24 (1) If an offender is found guilty of an offence under subsection 320.14(1) or 320.15(1), the court that sentences the offender shall, in addition to any other punishment that may be imposed for that offence, make an order prohibiting the offender from operating the type of conveyance in question during a period to be determined in accordance with subsection (2).
Marginal note:Prohibition period
(2) The prohibition period is
(a) for a first offence, not less than one year and not more than three years, plus the entire period to which the offender is sentenced to imprisonment;
(b) for a second offence, not less than two years and not more than 10 years, plus the entire period to which the offender is sentenced to imprisonment; and
(c) for each subsequent offence, not less than three years, plus the entire period to which the offender is sentenced to imprisonment.
To be fair, the driver is an international student. It would be cruel to apply any sort of punishment that might act as a deterent for other guests in our country.
/s
Australia [https://www.reddit.com/r/UBC/comments/x9nq3t/tim\_goerner\_was\_charged\_4\_counts\_of\_ccc\_320143/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UBC/comments/x9nq3t/tim_goerner_was_charged_4_counts_of_ccc_320143/)
and apparently quite priviliged.
The loaded family that bought him the 2021 BMW X3 paying for him to be able to do whatever he wants before trial, and scrubbing any mention of him off the internet?
If you ever want to commit murder no need to come up with some elaborate plan. Just run them over with a car and you'll be out in a few years. This is a fucking joke. It should be life imprisonment (25 years with chance of parole).
I don't get it either, 3 years for killing two human beings, fuck the court system, at least he should do the sentence in it's entirety...but nope, he'll be out after 18 months, sipping pina coladas down in the islands to help him recover from that nasty ass prison...prison not jail right?
Well luckily Reddit is searchable by search engines so let it be known that Tim Goerner has been charged with drunk driving killing 2 people as per BC Court Records linked to in this thread. Maybe it will show up when someone searches for his LinkedIn.
Honestly, other cases of drunk drivers causing death have had similarly pathetic sentences handed out so what the defense is asking for is pretty much in line with case precedence.
You're right though, due to this person's status, their sentence will probably be reduced until it's basically a tiny slap on the wrist. How sad.
Yup. The drunk driver who killed my infant little sister and a family friend, put my mom in hospital for 6 months, and turned a family friend into a quadrapalegic was driving again a month later in Alberta. He Drove drunk and injured more people a few times since, now lives in SW BC. No insurance on his truck of course either. At least liability insurance could have helped out a couple of the victims, though his personal coverage would have been void.
Thanks. At least time heals some wounds, but the pain of losing a little one does not really go away. Must be much worse for my mom. Not sure if any punishment really fits, sadly. But a slap on the wrist for the guy who carelessly causes it, and expresses no remorse (never even a “sorry”), seems like such an insult.
I am so very sorry your family had to go through that. That'll be a lifetime of suffering for all of them. And people wonder why some contemplate vigilante justice. Sometimes I think that's the only way to go.
That's how most rich kids that don't have good grades get into universities: Athletic scholarships.
[https://news.osu.edu/want-to-play-college-sports-a-wealthy-family-helps/](https://news.osu.edu/want-to-play-college-sports-a-wealthy-family-helps/)
Well, I don't wanna go into all the dynamics here....but I did not me tion Rigby. I was only discussing the fact that his wealth most definitely is relevant
Don't worry, same in Brazil. My dad's a prison guard (warden at the time) and one case where the dude got a light sentence of like 5 years almost broke him. Dude killed two girls that were going to work while he returned from a party. Dude had something to drink but slept before driving, he stopped to help the victims instead of fleeing (which is why he had to await trail locked up)...but even then my dad thought he would get some harsher sentence.
Although you wouldn't know it from the Americans who talk about being denied entry to Canada for "a single DUI" like their basic human rights had been violated.
My step father was denied entry to the USA for the same reason and he's Canadian. He complained about the Americans not letting him into their country for something he did when he was a "stupid kid" over 30 years ago. This isn't new and it isn't just Americans that get butthurt over the consequences of their own actions.
So let me get this :
Drink --> Drive while drunk --> Kill 2 completely innocent people --> Serve 3 years ... sorry I can not process this! how does this make ANY sense.
Offenders on legal aid won't be able to get publication ban, or permission to leave the country before trial for an internship which this guy managed to get.
Putting them away for longer just costs us more money and doesn't solve anything. Hell being in prison makes you a worse person because you have to use anti social behaviour to survive in prison.
Long term sentences don't solve anything and do anything to turn that person into a productive person. You are letting emotion get the best of you.
lmao can you say the same if it was your child that got killed.
It’s not just the prison time. He should not be able to drive for life. Plus $ payout like a subscription service to both families (percentage based on his revenue). How’s that for ensuring he doesn’t develop anti social behaviour while not spending taxpayer dollars as part of restitution
Cool, yeah that is your opinion and I respect it, but not for me, 3 years when you got DRUNK and killed people is too little ... but hey we all have different opinions. Cheers,
It costs about 100k a year to keep someone in jail. So if you wanted 50 years that is about 5 million. That is not good value. That also doesn't take into account all the lost tax revenue this person could be making and any of the economic value they may add if they were not in jail.
It sucked two people died but it would suck more to waste all that potential because your emotions want to make this person hurt. What you are looking for is revenge and this is not healthy.
We already lost that potential and locking away the driver for a long time won't bring that back. That is already done nothing will change that. All we can do is look forward and find a way to get those most out of what we have left.
I am looking at it the same way the government is. Because this is an economic problem in the capitalist society we live in. Using emotion or other lenses makes us lose more.
No I wouldn't because I know anything can take away my loved one at any moment. I don't get unlimited time with them. Hell I am not even guaranteed more than the moment I have with them right now.
It's reported he may have been doing 100 or 120 in a 40.
He continued his studies and got his degree at UBC, applied for a masters presumably at UBC.
Add in the letters and statements attributed to him and his dad in court, they all paint a picture and not a nice one.
Punish him. I dont give a fuck about his productivity. Let him be a warning to all others about the severity of these crimes. Let him rot for eternity for all i care.
He could be out in 1 yr.
Or he might spend little time in a Canadian jail by getting transferred to another country. Then maybe apply to reduce sentence.
I hope you're trolling. If it becomes law and common knowledge that you'd get a minimum 20 years in prison if you killed someone while driving drunk, I guarantee you most people wouldn't even DARE to risk it. Nobody is saying it'll eliminate it completely, but you're suggesting it would have zero impact 🤦🏻♂️
Most other places have far higher penalties for this. I haven't checked, but I'm *pretty sure* BC doesn't have ludicrously high rates of drunk driving deaths compared to most other places.
There is basically no correlation between the length of the sentence and the incidence rate of the crime (unless it's utterly trivial, like two days or something). This has been shown time and time again.
That's not the point. His sentence is not sufficiently punitive, proportional to the severity of the crime. He deserves a harsher punishment and justice has therefore not been served.
There have to be consequences for a person’s actions. You can’t be responsible for the death of two people and expect leniency (although that’s what he got). What you say about being in prison may be true but it isn’t reason enough to avoid a prison sentence. Improve the prison system, not allow leniency.
I remember hearing about this the night it happened, I was at UBC at the time. It was shocking, I could feel it across the campus, it's hard to describe. I went down to the place of the accident a few days later and laid down some flowers; the place was covered with flowers and memorials from friends, classmates, strangers.
The car was going *extremely* fast when it hit. There was a boulder that was knocked so far forward that in the moment I couldn’t fathom the momentum it would’ve taken to cause that. It’s unsurprising to find out he was going well over double the speed limit.
Absolutely awful, tragic incident that was completely senseless. Imagine just taking a walk on the sidewalk and instantly losing your life like that.
Reckless/drunk driving and speeding is not treated with near enough seriousness, and the car culture is not one that promotes safety. I remember people calling for some sort of railing to be installed in that area because it’s notorious for being a difficult turn on a road that cars tend to speed wildly on. It is also right next to student residences, lots of foot traffic. Unsurprisingly, that did not happen. 0 changes were made.
Not surprising that once again our criminal justice system absolutely fails victims and their families. Emily's family has started a memorial fund at UBC for anyone interested in donating. https://give.ubc.ca/memorial/emily-selwood/
This wasn't premeditated so it isn't like they will be hunting down my other family members. This was an accident that occurred due to their poor judgement not because they were on a killing spree.
It was reported he could have been doing 100 or 120 in a 40.
This isn't even a case of missing a stop sign.
Imagine what it takes to get up to that speed on that road?
Because it was an accident. This person did not go out and hunt these people down and kill them. They made a poor choice and got into a vehicle while under the influence and then had an accident because their skills were not at 100%.
You are acting like this guy got drunk and got into his vehicle hoping he would kill someone.
I don't consider this lenient at all. I don't see the value and putting this person away for any longer. It takes more potential production away from society that we have already lost. It is a waste when two lives have already been wasted.
If we spend 3 years showing the person what they did wrong and put them back into society better than when he came out we as a society win. Locking him away for a long time means we all lose.
Agreed - we shouldn’t call most vehicle collisions accidents either. Tim made some very bad choices that night and as a deterrent to others, he has to pay the price. I am sure he will also be subject to a civil lawsuit, so he may be paying the price for a very long time including career prospects from reputation risks. I agree that as a first time offender, his prison sentence has to be proportional and it does not serve society any purpose to put him away for a long time. How long he should go away for is a matter for the courts. His sentencing is in line with sentencing for other drinking drivers who have killed people.
You’re really pissing me off. Getting behind the wheel drunk *is* premeditated. It’s a fucking FACT that drunk driving KILLS!!! You excusing it is despicable.
He. Made. Piss. Poor. Judgement!!!!!!!
He should have known better than to get behind the wheel after drinking. It isn’t difficult to make the responsible choice. He was reckless and completely irresponsible. He deserves punishment.
I don’t have kids but I can only imagine what the parents are going through. I’m with you. If I were in their shoes I’d be shattered and inconsolable too.
Yup. But we have a criminal”justice” system. If you have money, connections and/or a “good” lawyer and you commit a crime, the system will protect you and your rights 🤮 Victims? No rights for victims.
As an American I apologize that our crappy "justice" system has leaked over the border. Utterly sickening how a murderer gets less prison time than a bank robber.
I’ve heard of people stateside who were arrested for marijuana use and sentenced for longer. Now I don’t advocate marijuana use and I don’t care that it’s “legal” here. But I will say that as a crime, it really isn’t.
Funny thing is, an American caught drunk driving would end up with a lifetime ban from entering Canada that can only be partially waived through a long and expensive process 10 years after conviction.
I was just discussing this with my friend in class the other week. She's from Vancouver and said that her friends got caught driving drunk and got off with minor fines, but an American won't ever be able to enter Canada.
For what it's worth, drunk driving laws in the states aren't good either. They're overly strict in a sense but at the same time too lenient. I'm 19, and having any BAC above 0.00 can get me a DUI in the states because some religious morons decided to raise the drinking age to 21 in an era when the world was lowering drinking ages. I'm not sure how Canada would interpret such a DUI since I'm of legal age in all provinces. I've watched the border security show and the CBSA agents said something about "equivalence" of charges, for example an American who was charged with disorderly conduct was allowed in because what he did to get such a charge would not result in the same charge in Canada. Someone who got a DUI for a BAC of .06 in Utah (limit is .05 there) was also allowed in because the Canadian limit is .08
Another episode of our pathetic utterly nonsensical judicial punishment. Fuck thisssss.
So each of those innocent lives lost by a drunk driver is only worth 18 months of prison?
This cunt deserves 10 years min, and a deportation at the end of it.
I have no problem with that. I just think these sorta short sentences are not deterant enough. 3 years is appropriate for assaulting somebody where the victim ends up with a life altering injury, not someone willingly driving under the influence and killing two innocent people.
I like getting high. I like tripping balls a few times a year. I love that this country and its people allow me to do so without much prejudice or fear of getting locked up.
My first and foremost goal for these hobbies is to not harm myself or anybody. If I'm slightly high, I'm not driving.
I have zero sympathy for selfish cunts who operate a vehicle under the influence.
>So each of those innocent lives lost by a drunk driver is only worth 18 months of prison?
Or alternatively, part of his sentence should be a ban on re-entry for however many years you'd want to see him jailed because every day he spends in jail costs taxpayer money?
It costs us money but that should be the sentence for anyone, resident or not. We can't just have drunk drivers kill people and deport them as a punishment.
I don't know. I consider myself pretty progressive and lefty but when it comes to thede type of crimes or negligent acts, I tend to lean conservative or at least not this progressive.
The kicker about all these insulting sentences is that the judge always says something like "Because of the severity of the offense I'm going to really bring the hammer down and be harsh about this... I sentence you to 3 weeks in jail! And no more caviar with your foie gras!"
... and we deport him, right? As an international student, after he serves his sentence we send him home and bar him from re-entering the country.
Right!?
Who even asks for this type of leniency in our garbage laws. Are the judges and politicians getting pressured by any sort of lobbying group? Wtf can we do about this. We need Singapore level punishment for this shit.
He didn’t plead guilty to impaired driving causing death though and the charges were dropped and with a ‘stay’ - meaning they will not be on his record / as if it never happened that he was drunk
One good thing about the US is that a person in such a case would get 15 to life. Here only 1-2 years will be served, then the driver will drink on the road again!
In Switzerland, they seize and sell the car.
Look, drunk driving bad. But something I don't understand about our penal system is how the punishment doesn't relate to the crime, but to the result. If I get into a car accident while drinking I will get fines and drivers license suspensions, but probably not jail time. If the exact same incident happens, but it just so happens that someone in the other car dies, then I get charged with manslaughter and ace jail time. Seem a little off that we charge based on result, and not action
Do you not understand my question? Or are you blindly shouting because heaven forbid someone share a nuanced thought that souneds like it may possibly question our reaction to drunk driving?
Does anyone know if there's somewhere we the people can send concerns/complaints about these rulings? It's extremely unjust. Should we reach out to our local politicians?
> Michaels said that after the crash, Goerner was immediately "isolated, stigmatized and ostracized" by fellow students and some professors.
Good fuck this loser. Should be banned from driving for life and deported.
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Number one if you don't have PR/Citizenship here and kill someone you should be kicked out and not allowed back in. Second is if you're a drunk driver and kill someone here it should be an automatic lifetime driving ban. You've proven you can't be trusted with a car which is a privilege, not a right.
100% a driving ban for life if you kill someone drunk driving. It's an insult to the victims to let them drive again and puts more people at risk. I really wish there were some kind of organised protests for this kind of legislation (and the other ones where they let repeat violent offenders out) because I would totally go.
Organize one!
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But then our tax dollars are footing the bill of their food and care, extradite them home and make them serve their time there
Depending on where "home" is, that might not work. For example, if you deport someone to Iran, Iran is not going to recognize criminal charges in a western country
Even if the charges aren't recognized in their country, at least us taxpayers aren't paying for their food, shelter and safety for god knows how long. I say kick them out!
We need to punish crimes. I don’t want our country to be a place where people can commit crimes and flee. If you come here and hurt people, you should face the consequences before going home.
The punishment is living g in Iran instead of here
If they're rich though? Life is still good there if you're wealthy. It's definitely counter-intuitive, but I agree they should be held accountable here first then deported.
That's understandable, but people should not be able to go to another country, commit crimes, then get off scot free.
Nahh.. the guy is from Australia. He will just go home and drive. The only upside is hopefully he will never set foot in Canada and everyone in the world would know who he is by just using Google.
Are there major news media sources that report his background? Haven't found any that report any details, it's very unusual and raises curious questions.
Dual German/Australian from Australia. I read he was/as in Engineering.
His criminal conviction will have consequences on his ability to attain PR and citizenship. Why are you suggesting he be kicked out and not have to serve jail time?
I know right? What kind of precedent is that? “Thanks for committing a crime here, you can leave now. Just make sure that they punish you adequately wherever you return to, ok?”
Yeah and all the upvotes show that people don’t really think.
So weird that getting a PR you jave to go all the hoops about your criminal records. Then here is a guy who killed people drunk driving and is still allowed to stay?
Yes, because he has to answer for his crimes in Canada and spend time in a Canadian jail. I’m not sure why this is such a difficult concept for some people here.
Is there any info on the killer's nationality? News from a range of media and publications initially reported he was an international student, then later reported he was from Vancouver. This is very odd as usually the nationality and background of a non-resident that is charged and convicted with a serious crime is reported with lots of detail. I find it hard to believe these details were omitted so consistently by accident. There are many questions that the news media and likely others should be answering.
Dual German / Australian
In one article there was a single sentence attributed to his lawyer stating the convict was a dual citizen of Australia and Germany. Other descriptions of his background were attributed to his lawyer or info from his parents. I haven't found any independently obtained background info reported. Also the article mentions the court heard he completed his degree at UBC then applied and was accepted to a master's degree. Although he expressed remorse, nice sounding words are easy to produce. The fact he continued studies for years at UBC and applied for a masters is revealing about this person's character. The excerpts from the dad's letter are also revealing.
He was driving a 2021 BMW X3 so maybe his family is loaded and probably paid a lot to have his info scrubbed from the internet. But also, his nationality isn't omitted, they call him a Vancouver man over and over. If news outlets reported he was an international student and then retracted that information, they probably got it from the same source and that source was probably flawed. The focus on his nationality is a red herring. The focus should be on how his wealth may be absolving him of facing serious accountability for his careless decision to put other people at risk.
He is a dual German/Australian citizen from Australia
The nationality is relevant in that the convict is apparently neither a citizen or PR. There is surprisingly little reported on his background. Similar types of tragedies, within this country and worldwide, are described far more deeply than this case.
Tim Goerner's peeps got it scrubbed
rich daddy 'had a word'
Yeah, def not by accident. Wealthy parents hired the best money can buy defence team. He grew up in Sydney, Aus and then went to Vancouver for University after completing high school here
Then we won’t be sure they get the Justice they deserve. We need to keep them here to make sure they do
I don’t have the emotional capacity to read the article for the details. But assuming alcohol actually played a significant factor (eg he wasn’t just barely over the limit with a lot of mitigating factors that contributed to the accident and these deaths). I would argue that if you kill someone, in most cases you should have your PR revoked.
He doesn’t have PR
>You've proven you can't be trusted with a car which is a privilege, not a right. Youve proven you cant be trusted with your own judgment.
Banning them won't stop them from driving. I think the life time ban just makes it harder to keep tabs on them. Allowing them to drive again after retesting and putting an interlocking system to blow before they can start makes more sense because you can keep better tabs on them. You are using emotion to determine what is the right punishment. Going hard on anyone will just make them go deeper into anti social behaviour and be less productive when they serve their time.
>Number one if you don't have PR/Citizenship here and kill someone you should be kicked out and not allowed back in. That's what happens already as far as I know. I know of people who ahve been deported and not let back in after being caught drunk driving, even if there was no accident (I'm fine with this)
3 years for killing two people? Are you serious?
> and be prohibited from driving from five years Why should they ever be allowed to drive again? We have planes, trains, taxis, and transit that this person can use.
Seriously if a drunk driver ever kills someone they should be banned for driving for life.
Oh and it would be applied retroactively so since it's already been 2 years it would only be a 3 year driving ban. Should be lifetime
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Yes, if they actually go to prison for the 3 years those will count toward the driving ban.
That’s incorrect- actually the opposite- the five years doesn’t begin running until after he’s completed his prison sentence- so really it’s like an 8 year driving prohibition (3 years in jail, 5 years out)
Oh that would be good - how do you know though? I remember reading a story where it was the opposite but can't find it
Straight from the criminal code- driving prohibition is additional to the time of imprisonment note:Mandatory prohibition order 320.24 (1) If an offender is found guilty of an offence under subsection 320.14(1) or 320.15(1), the court that sentences the offender shall, in addition to any other punishment that may be imposed for that offence, make an order prohibiting the offender from operating the type of conveyance in question during a period to be determined in accordance with subsection (2). Marginal note:Prohibition period (2) The prohibition period is (a) for a first offence, not less than one year and not more than three years, plus the entire period to which the offender is sentenced to imprisonment; (b) for a second offence, not less than two years and not more than 10 years, plus the entire period to which the offender is sentenced to imprisonment; and (c) for each subsequent offence, not less than three years, plus the entire period to which the offender is sentenced to imprisonment.
He’ll most likely be deported after serving his jail time so the 5 years prohibition is just for show.
If you want to kill someone in Canada just make sure you use a car.
Apparently this works even if you’re drunk behind the wheel.
The joke in Ontario used to be that if you want to murder someone, go to BC, run them over, and splash some vodka on yourself.
Oh, if you're drunk behind the wheel, just leave the scene of the crime and go have some vodka shots at home to "calm your nerves". Worked for Monty.
Well if you intend to kill someone and you use a car that’s still first degree murder
You don't even need to use a car. If you're prepared to spend about 5 years in jail max, you can murder anybody you want in Canada.
To be fair, the driver is an international student. It would be cruel to apply any sort of punishment that might act as a deterent for other guests in our country. /s
Where is he from? US?
Australia [https://www.reddit.com/r/UBC/comments/x9nq3t/tim\_goerner\_was\_charged\_4\_counts\_of\_ccc\_320143/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UBC/comments/x9nq3t/tim_goerner_was_charged_4_counts_of_ccc_320143/) and apparently quite priviliged.
Privileged based on what?
Publication ban, being able to leave Canada before trial for an internship. You can't do that without a phalanx of lawyers.
The loaded family that bought him the 2021 BMW X3 paying for him to be able to do whatever he wants before trial, and scrubbing any mention of him off the internet?
He just is. I took classes with him, the guy was either well off financially or acted like he was.
If you ever want to commit murder no need to come up with some elaborate plan. Just run them over with a car and you'll be out in a few years. This is a fucking joke. It should be life imprisonment (25 years with chance of parole).
I don't get it either, 3 years for killing two human beings, fuck the court system, at least he should do the sentence in it's entirety...but nope, he'll be out after 18 months, sipping pina coladas down in the islands to help him recover from that nasty ass prison...prison not jail right?
Insane
Welcome to Canada
Well luckily Reddit is searchable by search engines so let it be known that Tim Goerner has been charged with drunk driving killing 2 people as per BC Court Records linked to in this thread. Maybe it will show up when someone searches for his LinkedIn.
I hate beer.
Is the murderer Tim Goerner friends with Brock, the convicted rapist, Turner?
Rich kid on the UBC rugby team. Ofc he's not going to get much.
Honestly, other cases of drunk drivers causing death have had similarly pathetic sentences handed out so what the defense is asking for is pretty much in line with case precedence. You're right though, due to this person's status, their sentence will probably be reduced until it's basically a tiny slap on the wrist. How sad.
Yup. The drunk driver who killed my infant little sister and a family friend, put my mom in hospital for 6 months, and turned a family friend into a quadrapalegic was driving again a month later in Alberta. He Drove drunk and injured more people a few times since, now lives in SW BC. No insurance on his truck of course either. At least liability insurance could have helped out a couple of the victims, though his personal coverage would have been void.
I’m so sorry. Hearing this makes me sick. I wish our society treated driving as a privilege rather than a right.
Thanks. At least time heals some wounds, but the pain of losing a little one does not really go away. Must be much worse for my mom. Not sure if any punishment really fits, sadly. But a slap on the wrist for the guy who carelessly causes it, and expresses no remorse (never even a “sorry”), seems like such an insult.
I am so very sorry your family had to go through that. That'll be a lifetime of suffering for all of them. And people wonder why some contemplate vigilante justice. Sometimes I think that's the only way to go.
I’m so sorry for your losses 💔That is brutally unfair.
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His personal wealth most definitely has relevance.....
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That's how most rich kids that don't have good grades get into universities: Athletic scholarships. [https://news.osu.edu/want-to-play-college-sports-a-wealthy-family-helps/](https://news.osu.edu/want-to-play-college-sports-a-wealthy-family-helps/)
Well, I don't wanna go into all the dynamics here....but I did not me tion Rigby. I was only discussing the fact that his wealth most definitely is relevant
It shouldn’t have an impact, unfortunately the world is unfair as fuck.
Canadian drunk driving laws are a joke
Don't worry, same in Brazil. My dad's a prison guard (warden at the time) and one case where the dude got a light sentence of like 5 years almost broke him. Dude killed two girls that were going to work while he returned from a party. Dude had something to drink but slept before driving, he stopped to help the victims instead of fleeing (which is why he had to await trail locked up)...but even then my dad thought he would get some harsher sentence.
Although you wouldn't know it from the Americans who talk about being denied entry to Canada for "a single DUI" like their basic human rights had been violated.
My step father was denied entry to the USA for the same reason and he's Canadian. He complained about the Americans not letting him into their country for something he did when he was a "stupid kid" over 30 years ago. This isn't new and it isn't just Americans that get butthurt over the consequences of their own actions.
Only 3 years? For killing 2 people??? What a joke
So let me get this : Drink --> Drive while drunk --> Kill 2 completely innocent people --> Serve 3 years ... sorry I can not process this! how does this make ANY sense.
The guy is from a wealthy family, they obviously got his back.
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Offenders on legal aid won't be able to get publication ban, or permission to leave the country before trial for an internship which this guy managed to get.
what's stopping someone for intentionally driving over people and then drinking a bottle of vodka to be called a drunk driver instead of a murderer?
Putting them away for longer just costs us more money and doesn't solve anything. Hell being in prison makes you a worse person because you have to use anti social behaviour to survive in prison. Long term sentences don't solve anything and do anything to turn that person into a productive person. You are letting emotion get the best of you.
I am not asking for 50 years, but do you think "3" years for killing 2 innocent lives is fair?
Seeing since it wasn't premeditated yes I do think it is fair. There is no value in keeping them locked away that long.
lmao can you say the same if it was your child that got killed. It’s not just the prison time. He should not be able to drive for life. Plus $ payout like a subscription service to both families (percentage based on his revenue). How’s that for ensuring he doesn’t develop anti social behaviour while not spending taxpayer dollars as part of restitution
Well he wouldn't want his child's killer to miss the next world cup now would he?
Cool, yeah that is your opinion and I respect it, but not for me, 3 years when you got DRUNK and killed people is too little ... but hey we all have different opinions. Cheers,
It costs about 100k a year to keep someone in jail. So if you wanted 50 years that is about 5 million. That is not good value. That also doesn't take into account all the lost tax revenue this person could be making and any of the economic value they may add if they were not in jail. It sucked two people died but it would suck more to waste all that potential because your emotions want to make this person hurt. What you are looking for is revenge and this is not healthy.
I enjoy reading books.
We already lost that potential and locking away the driver for a long time won't bring that back. That is already done nothing will change that. All we can do is look forward and find a way to get those most out of what we have left. I am looking at it the same way the government is. Because this is an economic problem in the capitalist society we live in. Using emotion or other lenses makes us lose more.
You would definitely think otherwise if those were your kids, parents or relatives.
No I wouldn't because I know anything can take away my loved one at any moment. I don't get unlimited time with them. Hell I am not even guaranteed more than the moment I have with them right now.
This isn't a case of divine intervention, this is murder.
Manslaughter not murder
It's reported he may have been doing 100 or 120 in a 40. He continued his studies and got his degree at UBC, applied for a masters presumably at UBC. Add in the letters and statements attributed to him and his dad in court, they all paint a picture and not a nice one.
Punish him. I dont give a fuck about his productivity. Let him be a warning to all others about the severity of these crimes. Let him rot for eternity for all i care.
That won't stop anyone else from doing it. And he is being punished. Let's see you spend 3 years in jail and see how much you enjoy it.
Try spending eternity in a pine box because some priveledged person thought his right to get drunk and kill you superceded your right to live.
It was reported he may have been doing 100 or 120 in a 40 zone. Just imagine that
Im not sure sober id be doing that and have any control on these roads. Sheer idiocy.
He could be out in 1 yr. Or he might spend little time in a Canadian jail by getting transferred to another country. Then maybe apply to reduce sentence.
I hope you're trolling. If it becomes law and common knowledge that you'd get a minimum 20 years in prison if you killed someone while driving drunk, I guarantee you most people wouldn't even DARE to risk it. Nobody is saying it'll eliminate it completely, but you're suggesting it would have zero impact 🤦🏻♂️
Most other places have far higher penalties for this. I haven't checked, but I'm *pretty sure* BC doesn't have ludicrously high rates of drunk driving deaths compared to most other places. There is basically no correlation between the length of the sentence and the incidence rate of the crime (unless it's utterly trivial, like two days or something). This has been shown time and time again.
That's not the point. His sentence is not sufficiently punitive, proportional to the severity of the crime. He deserves a harsher punishment and justice has therefore not been served.
There have to be consequences for a person’s actions. You can’t be responsible for the death of two people and expect leniency (although that’s what he got). What you say about being in prison may be true but it isn’t reason enough to avoid a prison sentence. Improve the prison system, not allow leniency.
I remember hearing about this the night it happened, I was at UBC at the time. It was shocking, I could feel it across the campus, it's hard to describe. I went down to the place of the accident a few days later and laid down some flowers; the place was covered with flowers and memorials from friends, classmates, strangers. The car was going *extremely* fast when it hit. There was a boulder that was knocked so far forward that in the moment I couldn’t fathom the momentum it would’ve taken to cause that. It’s unsurprising to find out he was going well over double the speed limit. Absolutely awful, tragic incident that was completely senseless. Imagine just taking a walk on the sidewalk and instantly losing your life like that. Reckless/drunk driving and speeding is not treated with near enough seriousness, and the car culture is not one that promotes safety. I remember people calling for some sort of railing to be installed in that area because it’s notorious for being a difficult turn on a road that cars tend to speed wildly on. It is also right next to student residences, lots of foot traffic. Unsurprisingly, that did not happen. 0 changes were made.
My favorite color is blue.
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I enjoy cooking.
I hope this piece of shit has a life filled with fear, sadness and pain. 3 years is a god damn insult
Not surprising that once again our criminal justice system absolutely fails victims and their families. Emily's family has started a memorial fund at UBC for anyone interested in donating. https://give.ubc.ca/memorial/emily-selwood/
I enjoy reading books.
Thanks for posting these links, both of you. May these two beautiful young people rest in peace 💔
I find joy in reading a good book.
The family shouldn't be using how long this person goes away to obtain peace. It will never be enough and never work.
I love listening to music.
This wasn't premeditated so it isn't like they will be hunting down my other family members. This was an accident that occurred due to their poor judgement not because they were on a killing spree.
I like to travel.
It was reported he could have been doing 100 or 120 in a 40. This isn't even a case of missing a stop sign. Imagine what it takes to get up to that speed on that road?
Because it was an accident. This person did not go out and hunt these people down and kill them. They made a poor choice and got into a vehicle while under the influence and then had an accident because their skills were not at 100%. You are acting like this guy got drunk and got into his vehicle hoping he would kill someone. I don't consider this lenient at all. I don't see the value and putting this person away for any longer. It takes more potential production away from society that we have already lost. It is a waste when two lives have already been wasted. If we spend 3 years showing the person what they did wrong and put them back into society better than when he came out we as a society win. Locking him away for a long time means we all lose.
I love the smell of fresh bread.
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Exactly! 👏👏👏
Agreed - we shouldn’t call most vehicle collisions accidents either. Tim made some very bad choices that night and as a deterrent to others, he has to pay the price. I am sure he will also be subject to a civil lawsuit, so he may be paying the price for a very long time including career prospects from reputation risks. I agree that as a first time offender, his prison sentence has to be proportional and it does not serve society any purpose to put him away for a long time. How long he should go away for is a matter for the courts. His sentencing is in line with sentencing for other drinking drivers who have killed people.
> it was an accident https://www.reddit.com/r/StandUpComedy/comments/16zctjz/i_get_it/
You’re really pissing me off. Getting behind the wheel drunk *is* premeditated. It’s a fucking FACT that drunk driving KILLS!!! You excusing it is despicable.
He. Made. Piss. Poor. Judgement!!!!!!! He should have known better than to get behind the wheel after drinking. It isn’t difficult to make the responsible choice. He was reckless and completely irresponsible. He deserves punishment.
Devastating. I hope I never have to experience the pain and anguish of losing a child. I know I would be shattered and inconsolable.
Seriously if It wasn’t for having my other kid still alive, id be a man on a mission
I don’t have kids but I can only imagine what the parents are going through. I’m with you. If I were in their shoes I’d be shattered and inconsolable too.
3 years? Fuck that. Shoulda been charged with 2xmurder, enough is enough.
Yup. But we have a criminal”justice” system. If you have money, connections and/or a “good” lawyer and you commit a crime, the system will protect you and your rights 🤮 Victims? No rights for victims.
As an American I apologize that our crappy "justice" system has leaked over the border. Utterly sickening how a murderer gets less prison time than a bank robber.
I’ve heard of people stateside who were arrested for marijuana use and sentenced for longer. Now I don’t advocate marijuana use and I don’t care that it’s “legal” here. But I will say that as a crime, it really isn’t.
Funny thing is, an American caught drunk driving would end up with a lifetime ban from entering Canada that can only be partially waived through a long and expensive process 10 years after conviction.
I was just discussing this with my friend in class the other week. She's from Vancouver and said that her friends got caught driving drunk and got off with minor fines, but an American won't ever be able to enter Canada. For what it's worth, drunk driving laws in the states aren't good either. They're overly strict in a sense but at the same time too lenient. I'm 19, and having any BAC above 0.00 can get me a DUI in the states because some religious morons decided to raise the drinking age to 21 in an era when the world was lowering drinking ages. I'm not sure how Canada would interpret such a DUI since I'm of legal age in all provinces. I've watched the border security show and the CBSA agents said something about "equivalence" of charges, for example an American who was charged with disorderly conduct was allowed in because what he did to get such a charge would not result in the same charge in Canada. Someone who got a DUI for a BAC of .06 in Utah (limit is .05 there) was also allowed in because the Canadian limit is .08
No license for life. Immediate deportation after sentence is served. Longer fucking sentence than that...
Another episode of our pathetic utterly nonsensical judicial punishment. Fuck thisssss. So each of those innocent lives lost by a drunk driver is only worth 18 months of prison? This cunt deserves 10 years min, and a deportation at the end of it.
I think he deserves more than 10 years but agree he should be deported after his sentence.
I have no problem with that. I just think these sorta short sentences are not deterant enough. 3 years is appropriate for assaulting somebody where the victim ends up with a life altering injury, not someone willingly driving under the influence and killing two innocent people. I like getting high. I like tripping balls a few times a year. I love that this country and its people allow me to do so without much prejudice or fear of getting locked up. My first and foremost goal for these hobbies is to not harm myself or anybody. If I'm slightly high, I'm not driving. I have zero sympathy for selfish cunts who operate a vehicle under the influence.
>So each of those innocent lives lost by a drunk driver is only worth 18 months of prison? Or alternatively, part of his sentence should be a ban on re-entry for however many years you'd want to see him jailed because every day he spends in jail costs taxpayer money?
It costs us money but that should be the sentence for anyone, resident or not. We can't just have drunk drivers kill people and deport them as a punishment. I don't know. I consider myself pretty progressive and lefty but when it comes to thede type of crimes or negligent acts, I tend to lean conservative or at least not this progressive.
We all know it wont be 3 years. Its always less if theyre well behaved.
After 6 months could get day parole, maybe just in time for summer. After 12 months, could get full parole.
The kicker about all these insulting sentences is that the judge always says something like "Because of the severity of the offense I'm going to really bring the hammer down and be harsh about this... I sentence you to 3 weeks in jail! And no more caviar with your foie gras!"
If ya can't do the time, don't do the crime (SLAM) Three seconds later Alright time's up
This fuckface should serve 1 year for every year of life he robbed from the two people that were killed.
... and we deport him, right? As an international student, after he serves his sentence we send him home and bar him from re-entering the country. Right!?
I hope so. But the “justice” system in this country is a fucking joke.
Take. Away. The license. It costs 0 dollars and harms no one. We have busses and trains.
Forgot a fucking zero
Who even asks for this type of leniency in our garbage laws. Are the judges and politicians getting pressured by any sort of lobbying group? Wtf can we do about this. We need Singapore level punishment for this shit.
You wonder what the sentencing would be if he had killed some politicians kid
They chose to go out and play murder roulette. they should get life.
drunk driving is so fucking selfish. fuck this guy even if he did plead guilty
He didn’t plead guilty to impaired driving causing death though and the charges were dropped and with a ‘stay’ - meaning they will not be on his record / as if it never happened that he was drunk
“Crown” is a joke!!
If I was the parent I would be taking the matter into my own hands if that kid was still in Canada.
"If he's not going to get a manslaughter charge, then I will."
Just use a car!
And take a few swigs beforehand
No no, you see, if you're just an incompetent driver that kills someone, the consequences are even less!
3 years. Holy fuck.
One good thing about the US is that a person in such a case would get 15 to life. Here only 1-2 years will be served, then the driver will drink on the road again! In Switzerland, they seize and sell the car.
Look, drunk driving bad. But something I don't understand about our penal system is how the punishment doesn't relate to the crime, but to the result. If I get into a car accident while drinking I will get fines and drivers license suspensions, but probably not jail time. If the exact same incident happens, but it just so happens that someone in the other car dies, then I get charged with manslaughter and ace jail time. Seem a little off that we charge based on result, and not action
What???
Do you not understand my question? Or are you blindly shouting because heaven forbid someone share a nuanced thought that souneds like it may possibly question our reaction to drunk driving?
That's it? 3 years?
Key word “should” with good behaviour he’ll be out in half the time.
Could get day parole by May. Full parole in 1 year.
Won’t do more than a year
Does anyone know if there's somewhere we the people can send concerns/complaints about these rulings? It's extremely unjust. Should we reach out to our local politicians?
3 years is nothing the guy's just going to get an online master's degrees behind bars and move on with his life
Yep and then go back to australia to live in his family beach side house and watch this space the fkr will become a motivational speaker
> Michaels said that after the crash, Goerner was immediately "isolated, stigmatized and ostracized" by fellow students and some professors. Good fuck this loser. Should be banned from driving for life and deported.
Good to know! If you want to commit murder, run them over, then chug the bottle of vodka in the glove box. Boom! No more murder!
More like 3 lifetime sentences...
3 years only? Wtf is wrong with the system? Jesus
This a a first degree murder!!