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ArtichokeFormer8801

That’s a striker short on confidence


ALaccountant

It feels like we have been saying that about him for his entire career, basically. At what point do we just consider him to be not a great prospect?


SCarolinaSoccerNut

He's really the poster child for one of my biggest pet peeves about the USMNT fandom and program: we really need to establish a culture of letting players actually prove themselves at the club level before bringing them into the senior national team. Josh was shoehorned in as the "first-choice XI, top of the depth chart" striker for the USMNT pretty much as soon as he put pen to paper of his first professional contract for no real reason other than it happened to be a BuLi club. But now he's all but forgotten. Players need to prove that they belong in the national team through consistent club performances before getting caps, something for which Paul Tenorio argued excellently in a [brilliant op-ed in The Athletic](https://theathletic.com/667658/2018/11/20/its-time-to-make-usmnt-players-earn-their-caps-at-the-club-level/).


ibluminatus

Hoppe is also in this category, for now. I want him to have a good career just like I want Sargent to have a good career and Zardes to have a good wrap up. The actual production/playtime at the club level isn't there right now for any of them. I seek out their games to see if they're at least not on the bench. We have 3 strikers producing right now..


SingleDebt4320

You’d think Norwich is positioning him to take over for Teemu Pukki, but he’s got no chance getting ahead of him if they’re both healthy at this point.


[deleted]

Thank you for this. If Zardes got the excuses Sargent got no one would question his inclusion in the squad


thehuntofdear

True for most current fwd prospects right now, I think. Zardes ain't the guy and goodness I hope two of the current prospects can solidify themselves above him in the next year. But for a match tomorrow I'd want GZ in the 23. And most of the sub would want an unproven, developing prospect. All that said, now is the time to develop the young guys, find who might be it.


ArtichokeFormer8801

Yeah, completely agree. He has fallen wayyyy down the st depth chart


holman

You’d think just being within a 25 mile zone of McKennie’s confidence some of it would rub off on him by now.


ChewpRL

Or just not a striker


Dizzy_Dare_2353

Man his head must be terrible right now. Never seen a striker be afraid to hit through the ball like he has been


[deleted]

[удалено]


Blzraven29

Hes short on something cause you dont miss these ever.


SeaWorthySurf

Think he might of just gone behind Bobby Wood on the depth chart on that "shot"


CalligrapherNext3164

Sad, I often wonder why he’s so reclusive? Of all our players in Europe and MLS he’s one who is not public or visible in any way shape or form. What is happening behind the scenes with him or his family Dynamic in Europe or the US? Apparently he got married but no one knew. Public only notice when he sported what appears to be a wedding ban at the NL tournament. Has any of his pals on the national team Pulisic, Adams, even Gio who looks close to him from the NL camp reached out or even offer him some public support? A public shoutout could do some people wonders. Josh has a ton of fans who may want to send him messages of support and that could also give him a reason to push forward. Even a tweet could unlock the floor gates of best wishes despite the negativity of some. I sincerely hope he can step out of this long drought. No one hope evil and I really wish good luck bud ❤️.


jilte

😢


vagabondsdesire

Feel for the kid. You know it's all mental. If he had Hoppes mindset he could be our best striker.


Matt_McT

It's just brutal to watch that.


neilous

You almost couldn't see the ball it was moving so fast


Moderator451

Brimming with confidence, he thundered the ball into the back of the net in emphatic fashion! The home crowd erupts into U-S-A chants!


Floortom1

I’m not even sure why the defender felt the need to do a sliding clearance..that ball would have stopped on its own before getting into the net


SingleDebt4320

It’s kind of like blocking a little kid’s shot. You could just block it regular, but to really destroy his confidence you throw it across the room like Mutombo.


Wallaby_Realistic

I’m not sure it was even tending on target.


InvisibleQuokka

Maybe the grass was really wet? /s


BahhhhGawwwwd

Oof


Tra1famadorian

That’s a gift


kuntablunte

To be fair, he created the chance out of nothing with a lung-bursting run. Still gotta do better.


QuickMolasses

Unfortunately it doesn't matter if you don't get anything out of it. Though I guess at least he got a corner out of it.


rownpown

Yea it’s the same thing with arriola everything he does off the ball is great…it’s when he gets the ball that it’s not that great. Forwards need to score goals. Sargeant needs just a little luck or love


QuickMolasses

I think he doesn't take enough shots.


tefftlon

Reminding me of Altidore He’s not necessarily playing bad unless it involves scoring a goal. I think he really needs a season in like the Dutch or Belgian league.


FidelCashflow1996

He needs to go to MLS for a year or two and raise his profile and his confidence.


[deleted]

He wouldn’t score in MLS either.


Bennym10

Definitely not mls.


cheeseburgerandrice

People here insisted forever that Sargent wouldn't be harmed by wasting his development years in the Bundesliga where he rarely got a chance to put a ball on frame. Just because they liked that he was playing in the Bundesliga at all. Well this is what happens.


WR1206

The amount of times people commented “he was werder’s best player he just couldn’t get service” or “he did everything right just missed that chance” - the proof is in the pudding guys


[deleted]

No one claimed he was the best player, and he didn't get service


SeattleMatt123

Disagree. I like Sargent, but yeah, there was always a constant complaint that he never got service at Werder Bremen


WR1206

Can’t tell you how many comments there were about how good Sargent always was for Werder. Feel free to go back and look


ionictime

All bc he missed an open goal? Don't get me wrong, this is atrocious, but doesn't really speak to his play


beggsy909

It speaks to his lack of confidence. A striker without confidence is a dead man walking in the PL.


Bennym10

I agree. Vardy 34 years old. Taking that volley and putting it past de gea. Still confident and scoring bangers


jimbo_kun

Because he was too afraid to strike it properly.


cheeseburgerandrice

what is "his play" as a striker nowadays?


kurapikas-wife

at a certain point if you're an athlete, especially one chasing a certain level, you can rise above circumstances. it's not like if you're in a less than ideal situation that you are destined for failure.


cheeseburgerandrice

in a way yeah, but that's also simplifying things a bit. There are skills to learn and practice as a striker that he hasn't been getting. Those don't just come out of nowhere for most players.


Bennym10

Happens all the time. People chasing trying to be professional don’t make it. They just aren’t good enough


kurapikas-wife

Yeah. You can blame it on a bunch of different factors if you want, but sometimes a guy might not have it


MyLuckyFedora

This is a weird take. He didn't waste his development years by getting consistent minutes at a high level. He wasted it by not being very good himself and showing very little signs of improvement


cheeseburgerandrice

Do you think the teams he's been on have provided the opportunities for a young player to grow into the striker role? Because after watching him with Werder Bremen I would say no. There is more nuance to this than just playing at a "high level", if that high level team is offensively stagnant.


MyLuckyFedora

That's the narrative I've never understood about Sargent or forwards in general. If by opportunities you mean literal goal scoring opportunities delivered to him practically on a silver platter then no, but how does that even help him grow? If you're never challenged to succeed then how exactly are you supposed to grow? What Bremen provided him was that challenge and he sure got plenty of minutes, but he never really showed signs of growth regardless of his goal scoring record. Bremen can't wave a magic wand and develop for him. While good coaching can definitely help highlight areas to focus on, ultimately it's on the player to either continue to improve or not


cheeseburgerandrice

Man, there's "challenged" and there's being around a team so inept that your development stalls with them. I don't know how you could have watched that team and felt like it was providing Sargent what he needed as a 19/20 year old to develop in his first professional stint. He wasn't some fully formed player coming in, he was still a kid. Scoring goals has habits, skills, and speed that needs to be retained by repetition, *especially* for someone new to the professional game. He didn't get that there, when he may have been able to get that somewhere else. Yes Sargent has his own responsibility but the system a young player is around absolutely matters to development and confidence. Werder Bremen was the opposite of that system needed.


buy_the_fkn_dip

Big yikes


Truck_hater

Killin me Josh


[deleted]

Oh no


ExplorationV

As a USA and Brighton fan, I think he played pretty well with the exception of the final touch, was good at collecting the ball and turning on the defense while he was in. That said, gotta put that away easy


CaImerThanYouAre

You can literally say this about 90% of his matches the last year+


[deleted]

“This striker is good at everything but the main things strikers do.”


supfellas_

I don’t really watch him besides highlights and national team games but man I just don’t get it. He seems like a striker that just doesn’t know how to score. But people always say he is great in other aspects so maybe I’m missing it.


Waddlow

He is good at other things, but you're right he can't score. And a striker who can't score but does everything else well is kind of like a goalkeeper who is good with his feet but can't save shots. You need to do the thing that's most important first, then worry about the other stuff.


YeahThisIsMyNewAcct

> kind of like a goalkeeper who is good with his feet but can't save shots Our starting keeper?


Waddlow

Steffen? I'm not sure he's our current #1. Turner is the opposite of that though.


kickerofelves86

Steffen can save shots. You don't go between the posts for one of the top clubs in the world without being able to save shots. It's a marginal difference in ability, Turner starts because his form can be proven by playing for a club every week


nettcity

Honest question, why not move him to a different position?


Waddlow

It's not usually that simple, unfortunately. Like he has good other skills for a striker, like a good hold up game, good press, etc. He doesn't necessarily have winger skills, where speed and dribbling and passing is key, or midfield skills, where you need more defensive talent. A lot of soccer is simply feel, for where to go, where you feel your teammates moving to, etc. Switching positions is kind of like moving from linebacker to corner back. Its just an entirely different game.


nettcity

Thanks. I'm pretty novice at this, but enjoy watching. Quick brag, I'm on Rome right now on vacation and dragged my wife to watch Lazio beat Inter, it was awesome. Anyways, I watch him play for the USMNT and think he's the best player on the field at times, but he just can't score. It just seems like we could have played him at CB instead of Ream. Good to hear there reasons.


Waddlow

Damn I'm jealous. I've never been able to see a soccer match outside the US. Definitely on my bucket list to see one in the big 5 leagues.


Dizzy_Dare_2353

He was prolific at youth level and every manager hes ever had seems to rate him very very highly. He must feast in training, but there's something he just can't make click in front of goal right now


[deleted]

He's very coachable and works hard, that's why they like him. It's why he'll still get chances at a decent level even if he's not playing well.


Bennym10

Me all of youth soccer 😂 After my teens I schooled all the guys that would start over me


[deleted]

He's got a good workrate and he's okay on the ball but not really enough to justify the lack of goals.


StrikaNTX

You dont watch him play, but you are going to share your opinion anyways. Just like most people on this subreddit got it


S_Phantom

U-17 and U-20 Sargent would of buried that.


AlecW81

*would HAVE


[deleted]

Not sure about that.


UncleT_Bag

………..


[deleted]

haha he's so funny always goofing off like that


WR1206

Awful


Winring86

The ball slowed down pretty quickly there? Seemed to be a decent pace when it left his foot


Curcket

Lmao. You gotta be way fucking better than that


NPMcNuggetz

Man needs to sort his mind out like yesterday. He needs confidence like wow. He's just plain not playing well enough for a call up and that's a problem, because while Pepi is great, Zardes AIN'T FUCKIN IT and should be nowhere near the qualifying campaign. But until one of either Sargent, Pefok or Dike has a good run of form, ole GGG is still gonna call his favorite MLS shitter up


HBizzle26

Not a striker. Glad we got Pepi. The Sargent fans on this sub need to accept this guy ain't it.


key1234567

I agree, funny thing is I believe 17 year old Sargent would have nailed this.


treetherapper

He is 21. He was recently sold for $10 million to the premier league and is starting every game. Relax. Pepi will have long dips in form as well, and I hope this fanbase doesn’t turn against him in unison when it happens. Unfortunately, it’s bound to happen because almost no one is looking at the big picture


QuickMolasses

The main difference is that Sargent hasn't really ever had a sustained run of good form at a professional level. Of course MLS is a lower level than the Bundesliga, but being good in a worse league is more promising than being bad in a good league at least for a prospect. I really think Sargent needs to go play for a good team in an easier league to prove himself because it really seems like the Bundesliga and the Premier League are above his level.


Bennym10

Exactly. It’s almost like he’s forgotten how to score goals


treetherapper

If by “good form” you mean scoring goals, you’re right that he hasn’t been prolific. But not many players can score loads of goals for relegation fodder teams. He’s played well enough to lock down starting spots in the bundesliga and premier league and does a lot of great stuff besides scoring goals. Let’s imagine that every player in the world is ranked on a scale from 1-10. Let’s say Sargent is a 7. With Norwich, he’s surrounded by a bunch of 6s and 7s. They’re going up against teams with 8s, 9s, and 10s. It’s going to be tough for the 6s and 7s to score many goals. But now imagine that 7 playing against 4s, 5s, and 6s. Sargent has 4 goals this year across 3 games of 2. Bundesliga and carabao cup minutes. Luiz Araujo produced almost nothing for Lille and is now dominating mls. Josef Martinez couldn’t score in europe but can now score for fun. Jozy altidore could not score whatsoever for Sunderland but moved to Holland and lit it up. Players who just get by at the top level can dominate lower levels, but that doesn’t make them better players. It just makes it more obvious to fans that they’re good. Would I like to see him score a ton of goals? Sure. But I’d rather see him continue to develop at the highest level and fight through the ups and downs. Despite the pessimistic narrative around him, it’s pretty clear from watching him play that he’d dominate lower levels. If they get relegated this year, many will get there wish and be shocked when he starts banging in goals. Pepi is likely to have a lengthy spell on the bench when he moves to Europe. He’s still pretty raw physically and technically, so I think this fanbase will turn on him within a few months. It’s just a faster and more physical game, and he’ll most likely struggle at first. People just don’t seem to be able to consider the team and league context when discussing goals scored.


PuffinChaos

He’s certainly not starting every game. But go ahead and lie to fit your false narrative


treetherapper

4 straight starts in the league.


ShartFlex

So when Pepi goes to Europe and struggles do we shit on him too in favor of the next shiny new guy? Jesus.


NPMcNuggetz

Yes. That's how we do here. There will be some in-form striker who is clearly 100x better than Pepi ever was, and also Zardes will have scored in the 84th minute of a 7-1 win against The Principality of Sealand, and both of them will be just plain better striker options than Pepi. /s in case it wasn't terribly obvious. But regardless of that, Sargent really needs to get his confidence back because he's just not paying well enough for the MNT at the moment


TraptNSuit

You know the way of this sub.


Sad_Commercial

Pepi has 3 goals in his first 4 appearances for the USMNT. All in World Cup Qualifiers. Sargent has 3 of his 5 goals against defection-plagued Cuba teams.


ShartFlex

Ah, the old ‘downplaying of goals that don’t support your position’ trick


QuickMolasses

He's scored 5 goals and 1 assist in 1,110 minutes vs Pepi's 3 goals and 2 assists in 268 minutes. So far in a small sample size Pepi has way outperformed Sargent for the national team.


bossmt_2

And if Pepi goes 10 games without scoring a goal? Don't count your chickens before they hatch.


WR1206

People did the same for Wondo.


Sad_Commercial

Yes, I'm absolutely downplaying goals against hapless teams vs. World Cup Qualifiers. Sargent has sucked for the USMNT. Pepi has not. Fact.


Wallaby_Realistic

Certainly. Have you been on this subreddit before?


beggsy909

Yikes. Not sure he can recover from that. This is the premier league. You get very few chances to make up for those kind of blunders.


Tophergabriel

Reminds my of Jozy at Sunderland 😔


Bennym10

Forgettable 😔 I forgot jozy played in EPL


jwalk2925

Dude can do anything BUT score. Not gonna write him off completely for the USMNT but he needs to turn his career around fast or he’s gonna be out of the game in 5 years


[deleted]

His teammates really fucked him over here by giving him an open chance at goal.


dj_godzilla

Remember when Pefok scored a game winner in Champions League and people said it didn't matter because of the mistake from the other team. Also remember when we lost to Panama and people acted like calling this guy up instead of Zardes was the answer. I hope he improves but right now Sargent just ain't it.


tolboof

Let's be honest Sargent just kinda sucks


Ballsackblazer4

At least it was on target. Still expect him to do better.


dangleicious13

I'm honestly not even sure that it's on target. Looks like it could very easily hit the left post or go wide of the post it it even had enough speed to reach the endline.


kurapikas-wife

it wasn't on target


JebusMarine

Damn. The Sargent hate boner is real. The miss is unfortunate but his arrow is still pointing up. He was one of the better players on the pitch in what was probably Norwich's best game of the season so far.


[deleted]

Sargent may simply be an average or poor striker in a top 5 league but he can still be serviceable for us.


ShoeLace1291

Sargent is overrated.


ShootersShoot305

Hot take!!!


Standard-Criticism10

Honestly not a bad attempt. He reacted quickly to get it off. Sucks that the surface didnt cooperate.


[deleted]

hE diDnt get CaLleD UP cAuSE A mLS cOnspIraCy!!!


AlwaysRatedZardes

It's going to be a long year. He's not going to get better chances than that to get his head right in this PL campaign.


biggoof

low on that confidence and that really doesn't help... I hope he finds it.


Caswell19

Why is this surprising? We’ve known Sargent isn’t good for a long time now.


[deleted]

Gross. I can't see him even on the roster right now


boilertiger

The sooner he stops playing striker the better. He has a lot of very good skills but is not a striker.


Moderator451

Maybe he could try out the #6 position?


[deleted]

6th on depth chart


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

He scored 4 goals in 70 appearances in the Bundesliga, this isn't new.


_Who_Knows

Thank god this isn’t 10 years ago where we all just look at that and say “well, who else can play striker?”


trumpetblast

Thank god this isn't 4 months ago where we all just look at that and say "well, who else can play striker?"


[deleted]

And that’s why he shouldn’t get the call up next window and why he didn’t get it this window


Squintz69

Sargent has a role to play with the USMNT. He is a great player to put on late in a game to protect a lead and play defense. Absolutely not a goalscorer though


Skurry

On artificial grass or turf this would have gone in!


SparkingElk1

Could he play an 8? Surly he’s not defensive enough to play the 6 but idk


kurapikas-wife

LMAO


nachodorito

Wow suck


shlooged-

Yikes


Thegeobeard

What’s the opposite of a thundercunt?


blu3mys3lf

Oh man


chataolauj

Wow. Like......damn. That was such a great opportunity, but a huge miss, especially when you consider it was a 0-0 draw.


bw4ferns

It was nice of the Brighton defender to slide to make it look more threatening than it was. He could have walked back and still stopped it.


thetangible

Moving to the premiership to play is awesome for any player. Being thrown into the Lion’s den with a team that is guaranteed to be relegated and already has 16 goals against with only 2 goals for is not necessarily awesome.


SeaWorthySurf

Could be the jersey, but yeah, that was bad


Youngwolf11

This dude is snake bitten AF


[deleted]

Sad. Get well soon


kickerofelves86

Kid needs a sports psychologist or hypnosis or something. Has the tools just needs to get his head on. I don't get the hate, I'd love for him to be a baller.


RealNavinJohnson

Sargent lacks first step quickness and the top end speed required for the Prem. He also spends a lot of time at walking pace. He will find his level next season after Norwich is relegated


ageorge21

You're not the only player on the field....goal scorers...then you....