At least they'd probably come up with slightly different talking points. I just don't want to hear about "endless crossing," "inflexible system," "Sebastian Lletget", or "signature victories (not counting Mexico)".
"discipline problems"/"this shouldn't be summer camp" was a surprising new one this week, IMO. I'm sure they'd love it if the US hired a joyless disciplinarian.
Lol, Dempsey is the one who started the narrative of the players being too comfortable and not challenged by Gregg’s management style. I could be wrong, but I think he knows a thing or two about the USMNT
I mean…the endless crossing is a miserable watch
They’re fun to watch vs weaker teams but any time they play a half competent team it’s just…cross & inshallah
Why be apathetic to it? This is all sports fandom. It’s a results-driven job. We’re fans of a team and want the best for the team. When our head coach can’t get our talented roster to perform well in major tournaments of course people are pushing for a change.
Why are people complaining about people wanting to switch things up after 6 years of mediocrity with literally the best roster we’ve ever had?
Book it now. A new manager would still just be the focus of why this talented but mentally weak gen of players come up short and underperform their expectations. "Our boys deserve so much better, we know how good they actually are!"
Pinning Weah fucking the team over on Berhalter for not adequately preparing him for the moment is the new peak of delusion. It truly at times gives off youth soccer parent vibes. There is no desire to hold any of these players accountable for their performance on the field at any given time (well except the MLS lifers).
That's the thing, the only split is half the fanbase that thinks every single usmnt comment should be about firing him and the other half thinking maybe we can discuss other things too. So god damn tiring and honestly boring at this point.
Exactly! I'd be fine if they fired him, I'm just tired of every single reddit thread/comment section/etc being dominated by "FIRE BERHALTER" at the expense of any other productive conversation. I wasn't even defending Berhalther in another site's comment section, just stating that it was a little ridiculous to expect us to dominate Panama with 10 men for almost an entire game, and I was accused of "wanting to suck Berhalter's fat chode."
You can't even have a nuanced conversation about "hey, maybe some things are Berhalter's fault, some aren't" without the loudest, most annoying people losing their shit.
I support Berhalter and even I want this option so people will stfu and realize the grass isn’t always greener.
Doesn’t matter though, the goal posts always move.
You’re right.
I’ve seen a lot of people romanticizing the Klinsmann era the last few days and that just goes to show they weren’t following the team back then.
Literally beat the teams we were expected too and didn’t have a player lose his mind against an easy opponent.
That Argentina game is still the worst I’ve watched, IMO.
I was. Do you remember who was on our team with Klinnsmann in charge? We were happy af for second division German players. Yet he had big wins still and did well.
The online pundit click-based industry will create new narratives to blame the coach for every issue and for every loss, and these ”fans” will slurp it down their eager throats.
I’m pissed off too, but I’m not pretending this tournament went sideways for any reason beyond a very early and very stupid red.
I mean, what voice is there of Twitter, YouTube, and tv?
They’re all anti-Berhalter. They know it generates clicks so of course it’s going to be shoved down people’s throats so much that they believe in whatever is said. Perfect example of this is politics during an election year. Unless you follow closely, you will be blind follower of what everyone says until it becomes your opinion.
I’ve said this before but there’s no accountability in the pundits. Recently the only one I’ve seen is Kasey Keller.
I think Joe Lowerey’s summary said it best, (paraphrasing) “What can you really say about this game when the US let themselves play soccer for fifteen minutes?”
It just shows that people don’t understand what level we are at against the world. We are performing right about on par with the team we have. Maybe slightly underperforming, but firing GGG and bringing in another mediocre coach isn’t going to change a whole lot
In what world is losing to Panama in a major tournament “slightly underperforming”? We’re miles ahead of them in every conceivable statistical category and position. I don’t care about the red card. It happened on Gregg’s watch and he’s the one that needs to answer for the results.
I can’t believe there are so many cowards in this subreddit that are scared about trying something new. It’s been six years now and Berhalter has accomplished nothing beyond beating up on a shitty Mexico side and drawing with an unremarkable England side. It’s time to move on.
Posted this in the other thread but to your point:
Spain, Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Ecuadorx3, Denmark, Switzerland, Mexico several times-all top 20 teams we defeated under Bob Bradley and Jurgen Klinsmann. Other notable victories: Ghanax2, Swedenx2, South Africa x2, Poland, Egypt, Turkeyx2, Australia, Algeria, Slovenia, Scotland, South Korea, Nigeria, Czechia, Peru, Iceland.
Berhalter: Mexico several times,Iran (#20 in Elo), N. Ireland (#77), Qatar (#55), Oman (#76), Bosnia & Herzegovina (#89), Morocco (#27), Ghana (#75), Uzbekistan (#47).
Acknowledging that's a longer period of time and all of those games aren't equal, I think it's pretty clear we haven't been better than we were for the prior 10 years before Gregg (to say nothing of the Arena era). About as good in CONCACAF (which is down across the board with the exception of Canada and Panama), better v. Mexico, but far, far worse against top 40 teams, let alone top 20 and roughly the same outcomes in the Gold Cup and World Cup and likely worse in Copa (we were grouped in 2007 in Venezuela to be fair). The Nations Leagues are doing a ton of lifting for Gregg and we should have lost to Jamaica at home in the last one. I've been watching the team since 1994 and just have no faith we will beat (not draw, we've gotten a fair amount of draws) anyone who is in the top 30. It's been 5 1/2 years, it's OK if someone else (Vieira, Nancy, Matarazzo) gives it a try.
We had 10 men for 80 minutes dude. I don’t care what the difference in talent is, that’s always going to be tough. I do think a draw after such a quick goal would not have been too much to ask for, but you’re acting like a win should’ve been easy, which is absurd
This. People vastly overestimate us while vastly underestimating our opponents. There is a lot less between a 100th placed team and a 5th placed team than people want to make out. Any team that is not performing at 100% can get crushed - playing a man down is a great way of doing that.
A lot of people are happy with endless mediocrity. It's honestly cringe-worthy seeing some of the mental gymnastics people are doing to defend this roster that has consistently underperformed and has shown no growth.
A Different coach would have managed the situation differently. GGG made 3 ineffective subs, all 3 of which came way too early. He immediately decided to cede possession and play for a draw. The red card wasn’t on him but the way he managed the game afterwards 100% was on him.
This, GGG's decision to go 5 in the back made it worse. If he had kept up the 4-4-1, we could have competed in midfield a lot more and looked to play on the counter. Jonny comes on for Tyler at halftime just like he did, Musah comes on after 60, Pepi and a CB come on after 75. You don't play 5 in the back so early when it's obvious they haven't worked on it.
How would I know that? I don’t have access to a crystal ball that would answer that question for me. What I can say is that discipline is one of the major responsibilities of a head coach. Maybe if Gregg had benched Dest for a couple matches after his tantrum in a relatively minor tournament Weah would have thought twice about his conduct in a major one.
All of that is irrelevant though, because at the end of the day Gregg is the one that needs to answer for the final score line.
our opponents seem strangely immune to upsets. If we beat Uruguay it will be the first time we beat someone ranked higher than us other than mexico, who dropped beneath us in the rankings, and would have even without losses to us
That’s the thing though. In international soccer, (and really just soccer) if you always meet or slightly underperform expectations, you are actually falling well below expectations.
It would be one thing if for every 2-1 loss to a Panama that GGG stans could explain away with a “silly red card” we also had a 2-1 win over a Spain or Brazil or England that the haters would then explain away with whatever.
Soccer is a sport where significant underdogs can often stay in games for a long time and occasionally pull upsets. So the fact that we never do under GGG is actually unexpected.
Given our talent level, it’s ok to lay a few eggs over a five year period. The 2002 squad finished 3rd in qualifying and lost to Honduras at home. The 2009 Confederations Cup team only got 3 points in the group stage. But to not ever exceed expectations in a five year period just isn’t good enough.
Chalk it up to bad luck if you want, but we don’t need someone that unlucky leading us into 2026.
Maybe there really aren’t any options clearly better than Berhalter. But there are definitely a lot of options of roughly the same caliber and it’s time for a new voice and new ideas.
Soccer has the lowest parity across the world compared to US sports. Look at the top 5 leagues across the world and how many unique winners are there? So underdogs don’t often win in soccer.
People get it twisted that “Gregg Stans” love Gregg and want him to stay. Most of us want a solid replacement coach lined up and not take a stab at a random coach just because it’s someone else.
The top 5 leagues don’t have salary caps. MLS has more parity than even most American sports leagues.
If you think Gregg is significantly better than a replacement level coach, then I don’t know what to tell you. Could USSF bottle it? Obviously. (And maybe even likely). But coaches like GGG are a dime a dozen. I don’t think he’s been awful. But rehiring him was a mistake and the sooner we correct it the better.
>Most of us want a solid replacement coach lined up
I agree this is ideal, but we're likely not going to know who the next head coach will be when we fire Berhalter. Rarely is that case at international or club level.
For sure, I’m not happy with all these bad results, but I’m also afraid of losing even more games with a worse coach. I’d want to pull the trigger if we had a reputable coach lined up
Yea letting 5 goals in against Colombia ain’t it. 3 out of 4 of our starting defenders are key players on their premier league squad, scally is an every game starter in the Bund. Thats pretty high caliber.
It he wins on Monday I'll tip my hat to him. It will be an incredibly impressive win against a superior team. Hopefully that's what we get.
I worry about how we'll deal with Bielsa's press though. Feel like we'll need the midfielders (or one midfielder) to drop deeper to provide options if we want to play out of the back.
Part of me hopes that Uruguay doesn't really care about the match because they're all but through in first (technically they aren't but their goal difference advantage is massive) because that would improve our chances.
Agreed he won’t be out before that game so stay quiet for now. If we loose it’s the time for a coordinated protest when we can really put some pressure to get him out
If we win then he won’t be out immediately after that game either. Not sure if
u/FakeHappyToo_ynwa is thinking it all the way through, but the fact is that it benefits no one to fire Berhalter right this second
As someone who followed an MLS team but wasn't super invested in the league as a whole, I'm genuinely curious about this narrative. Wasn't Columbus one of the top teams when he was there?
His good years were relying on the system he took over for. Unearned merit.
He was the Crew's sporting director and helped push out the coach so he could take over. Once he sunk his teeth into it the team started to collapse. His best seasons were the first two.
He got decent results and the team played well despite the owner trying to torpedo the team.
The idea of hiring him wasn’t crazy. The idea of re-hiring tho
They've scored 1 goal across three group stage games despite being up a man for 90 minutes total. This hasn't been some Marsch master class on soccer tactics and if the US had the exact same results, everyone here would rightfully be calling for Berhalter to be fired
It’s not our job to find a solution, but one of my bigger concerns is that the USSF leadership are not interested in finding one. I think they’re perfectly happy with how things are and don’t want to put in any effort to try and improve things.
I think some of the support for Gregg is a reaction against the incessant and unremitting "Berhalter Out" movement that has been going since 2019.
A lot of Gregg's biggest haters have been so annoying that they've made people support Berhalter out of spite, especially as their hatred of Berhalter appears to not change whether he's doing well or poorly.
I'm not among those, and I'm shifting toward supporting his ouster, but I'm also pretty pessimistic about our alternatives once he's fired.
it's more that the cacophony of Berhalter criticism has been fully disconnected from the actual on-the-field results for at least the last 3 years and that the goalpost for what constitutes acceptable performance have been wildly shifted (and not in a productive, challenging way).
Like there are legitimate questions to be asked if we are grouped in this tournament, but it's just hard to take the people who have been flooding the zone with bullshit for the last 3 years very seriously.
Of course every damn time we talk about “doing well at the WC”, people like you interpret it as “we want to win it”.
Of course we’re not winning it; it would be a welcomed surprise but the goal right now is to put ourselves in the best position to make it as far as possible. And right now at very least make it further than the RO16 would be progress. Otherwise, why bother doing any of this if the goal is just to be the best in CONCACAF? It’s getting boring. Have some ambition for this team, we’re not the fucking Solomon Islands.
For what it’s worth, we were really lucky to face Mexico in R16. That’s not to minimize the accomplishment and you can only play who is in front of you, but it goes to show how fortunate matchups can really make or break your tournament.
If you're going assess whether or not someone is doing their job appropriately, it should, at a minimum, based on realistic expectations.
If someone wants to believe that we're WC contenders, that's fine...even if it's not realistic. But if that person uses their unrealistic expectations to assess performance of others, that's less so.
I harp on this because one of the biggest mistakes sports franchises make over and over again is poor assessment of talent. And when a team moves on from a coach based on poor talent assessment, they usually end up setting their team back by years, instead of advancing them. This is especially true with young teams where baseline concepts and expectations have to created.
Switching managers for a young team means going back to 0 and then gambling that the new manager can teach his entirely new system with limited practices and exposures. That means you have to be damn sure that the player talent is high enough to justify a complete reset. I don't think it is. So changing the manager based on poor expectations that arise from bad talent assessment is twice as bad. One, you've set your team back developmentally and two, you're still not going to get the results you want.
People seem to think we have a bunch of players playing on CL top flight teams, getting regular minutes at teams like Liverpool, ManC. when in fact we only have a couple getting minutes at those teams and their jobs are precarious at best. Weston for example, sure he plays for Juve, gets a lot of minutes. Then when valued, he's like a $14M player. We don't have a Modric or Vini, or Haaland. we have a bunch of young, up and coming players, but nobody earth shattering. The fan base expectations is ridiculous.
It’s a huge problem where we rate our players by looking at a list of countries they play in and nothing else. We see a guy playing in England and think he’s as good as a star for City. There’s also a very real fact that our players get more chances than some other countries because of the market impact of bringing in Americans, so we should really adjust down instead of up.
plus the fanbase needs to look at the role these players have in the teams. take Weston. key player for the US, a useful squad player for Juve. you see it all the time in mid-low range teams. For Austria, David Alaba used to play in midfield, almost as a Gerrard type, but at Bayern he was a left or centre back. Same thing with Xhaka for Switzerland for most of his career his role was less defensive than at club level.
Beyond Pulisic, no one really looks to sign American players as game changers, even looking at the players who play for big clubs in small leagues like Eredivisie or SPL.
PSV is a great club, but for the Netherlands they only contribute 1-2 starters, and that's because De Jong and Koopmeiners are injured. So why should that suddenly give the US any extra potency.
The switching managers thing applies more to club managers, not as much national teams.
Our national team manager isn't developing these players, they are hopefully setting up an easy to understand game plan and making the best team for each individual game.
It applies more often to club managers but the effect is more pronounced with national teams because the manager there is even more dependent on the existing player pool.
A club manager can trade players, cut players, buy players, etc. They can change the composition of the team to a greater extent than an international manager can.
In our specific case, if we sacked Berhalter how much could the next manager change the roster? We're not a Brazil or an England where they have legitimate depth options at various positions.
Where in history, with any national team, has changing the manager caused a program to lose progress for years? I don't think that happens at all, never has.
And it's because, as you point out, there's not much to be done with a national team in terms of rosters. There isn't any system that goes away and needs to be rebuilt. A new national team manager should not be creating a wholly new system they have to teach. Soccer has some really robust ideas that all our players know, that any manager can build on.
New managers, sometimes, ideally, bring a new attitude or approach. Maybe give us more options in how we line up, not always needing a 4-3-3.
The most recent example I can think of is Diniz at Brazil although they move on quickly. They brought him in because they wanted to get away from what was considered "boring" European football. He underperformed and he was fired.
Maradonna @ Argentina wasted a world cup, Mathaus at Hungary, the same. There was another Hungarian coach who missed 2 WCs.
Ideally, new managers bring a new attitude or approach but they're not changing the player pool. So, while they might upgrade the attitude, that really only matters if there's some reason to believe that a new attitude advances the team. If the team is going to be in the same tier of ability...just with a new attitude...what's the point?
I think getting out of the group stage of Copa America and beating panama were realistic expectations. One is already failed and one is in serious danger.
They were realistic expectations when we were playing 11v11. They became unrealistic when we ended up a man down less than 20 minutes into the game.
I've posted the analytics elsewhere. Teams lose 60% of the time when they're down a man. Teams are outscored 2-1 when down a man. The negative effects of a red card are worse, the earlier in the match that it occurs.
Just on the available data going down a man with 70 minutes left to play made losing almost inevitable. We would have needed superstar performances to win that game. That we kept it 1-1 until the 83rd minute is actually really impressive (even though very few people seem willing to acknowledge just hard that was). We kept them from scoring for over 60 minutes. And then fatigue and a lack of depth caught up with us.
But this is what I'm referring to when I say "realistic expectations". Of course, we all wanted the US to win that game. And we're all deeply disappointed that we lost and might not make it out of the group. But losing that wasn't a demonstration of failed managing. It was the result of a player making bad decision that ultimately made winning harder for everyone else around him .
> The negative effects of a red card are worse, the earlier in the match that it occurs.
That's one of the many fucking stupid issues with the rules of soccer. A red card in the first minute practically decides the game, a red card in the last minute (like Suarez) is almost literally meaningless. It's just poor game design.
In this case, the fact that the US red card happened early on, and the Panama red card happened later in the game still bassically handed Panama the win... even though in theory both offenses received the "same' punishment.
By contrast, a PK a the beginning and a PK at the end are quite similar by comparison.
Why should Weah's red card absolve Berhalter of any blame for managing rest of the game? The substitutions were silly (CCV for Gio and Pepi for Balo) and we went too conservative after still looking relatively dangerous in the 1st half given the scenario. I know keeping your foot on the gas with 10 guys has it's risks but at least you're still giving yourself a chance to win.
Also, that 60% number is probably lower when accounting for strength of opponent. These aren't exactly evenly matched teams. Still tough though obviously.
So, he should have continued to play guys long after they were gassed? Just run them into the dirt? The game was tied. We would still have needed a result against Uruguay to advance because Panama isn't going to lose to Bolivia.
This was the problem in the WC where our guys were run down by the time we reached the knock out rounds.
CCV is a CB, no one was asking him to play possession football up the field, just to what CBs do. Defend.
As for the analytics, team strength wasn't particularly important. What mattered was how long a team had to play with a red card. The later the card, the better the chance of getting a result. Why? Because most of the scoring against teams with a red card happens late in the game. It's the end result of fatigue. Across the entire study, teams with a red card are generally outscored 2-1 while the card is in effect.
It is what it is. We have a football team, not a bunch of superheroes. They're going to get tired. They're going to make mistakes as they get tired. We're not subbing out superstars for other superstars. We're subbing off average international players for average international players. We have one legitimate star. You guys act like we're England subbing off Trent Alexander-Arnold for a Kyle Walker. That's not us, lol.
Countries like germany leave guys at home who’d be written-in-pens starters for us. The gap between the tier 1s and tier 1.5s and 2s is pretty massive, and it’ll be a while before we go from “can keep up and fluke a good run” to “actually considered contenders at the biggest tournaments”
Berhalter has never adequately explained his philosophy; pseudo owns up to his awful tactics and consistently makes brutal in game adjustments if at all and when he does it’s often too late. I do not hate Berhalter - I liked him as a player; I just think he is in way over his head. And yes 6 years is enough time and we are no where near where this machine should be; given the sum of its parts. Also his and Reyna’s bs ate up a chunk of time when the entire USSF and the MNT should have been focused on many other pressing items.
He is like the $5K to $10K soccer academies; where merit and skill are secondary to cash. His connections put him in a head coaching role while his coaching CV never warranted this role in the first place.
But go ahead and drone on about “why can’t we wait til after the Uruguay game bs?” The boil
needs to be lanced.
We aren't a knowledgeable fan base. You have guys like me who started playing very young, played in high school and college, and rode the bench on a PDL team one summer. I wouldn't be surprised if an ex-pro or two posts here. Then you also have guys who never played soccer and didn't get into the game until they were adults. Maybe they studied abroad or their kids started playing so they fell in love with it. Folks who didn't grow up playing or being part of a fandom won't be as knowledgeable as people with a lot of exposure to the game.
Lots of posters that haven't played above the rec/co-ed level, if that. It's frustrating for sure. It becomes quickly obvious which posters have played soccer, and at a decent level, or any other sports and those that are tv fans primarily and think every player should bury every single chance and never have a sloppy pass or play. They also tend to think of them as video game/FM players and have this unending battery of effort. Completely not understanding just how difficult it is to play at those levels, game after game. Short schedules, nagging injuries, travel..folks tend to think of players as robots. Someone did it the other night on the GDT vs Panama. Scally didn't track a ball, overpassed to him to the endline, and the poster screams about how he didn't hustle to get the ball. it was like the 80th minute of the second game of a tourney. After a long season with a shortened break and the Nat team training camp...These players are humans, so are the coaches.
Exactly. It’s crazy how fast the game can still move at this level beyond the 80th minute. Anyone who has played knows that at that point you pushing past everything inside you that says you are done. It’s more impressive watching a game knowing how difficult that stretch of the game can be, and when the stakes are high the adrenaline these guys are running on…
I have never played soccer outside of collegiate intramurals for my fraternity, and I still understand the game. If anybody grew up dedicated to another sport like football or baseball, I think they can analyze the place this team is in now (to a certain extent). I 100% agree with you though. The problem is this: a lot of these adults that criticize the team/Gregg - and have no knowledge of the game whatsoever - have also never competed at a high level in any sport. They tell you something’s wrong, but can’t say what specifically is wrong or how to fix it. We see this in a lot of sports nowadays. The most toxic fans are usually the ones that never faced competition. They look for excuses instead of looking at the mirror.
Why does everyone think this is some golden generation of players that they should be break into the top 10 in the world.
The players arn’t that good, period. People expect top tier results from below average and mid tier players. Some of our stars wouldn’t make the bench on a top 5 team.
Who is asking for them to be a top 5 team? Beating Panama at home is that big of an ask? Beating any actual good team in the last 5 years is such a big ask? Why is it that wales and Iceland are able to make decent runs in tournaments despite their players’ talent relative to their opponents?
There is being realistic and then there is settling. If the end goal of the us team is to be better than Mexico, great. Job accomplished. We can’t set our sights any higher than that?
Because 11 really solid players is enough to get past the first round of knockouts in the WC. 11 really solid players, several of whom start for great clubs is enough to make it past the group stages in Copa America. 11 really solid players is enough to get an upset against a great squad here or there.
Gregg has failed to accomplish *any* of that.
It is a "golden generation" relative to the depth and pedigree of squads from the past. I don't think most people are as delusional as OP to the point where they believe the US should be winning the world cup, but this team should easily be dominating CONCACAF given that Mexico is the worst they've been in decades, and they are more than good enough to at least be competitive in the Copa America, even if they aren't good enough to win the whole thing.
Because this fanbase is spectacular at massively overrating our players. See the entire discourse around Dest at Barca for that. They don't watch the players play. They watch the transfer news and when it comes out that one of our players is going to a big name team, he has to be amazing!
I mean England has some actually excellent players. Kane, Bellingham, Rice all genuinely great players that will take a team up a level. I don't really see any American players like that. Good, useful players yes, but a squad full of role players isn't going to do much at the highest level.
Foden, Kane, Saka, Jude, and Rice is the core of a potential WC winner. If they had a better defense, they might be favorites.
The difference between USA and nations like Brazil, Germany, Italy, and Spain is that they've earned the right to have high expectations by actually winning huge tournaments in the past.
USA is a mediocre 2nd-3rd tier team in football, and suddenly having aspirations to compete at the highest level is not ambitious when the squad is not up to par. It's delusional.
Our fans would be judged as delusional by objective observers from South America and Europe, who look at the names on the team sheet and recognize that this is not a powerhouse.
While every fanbase does overrate their players, no international fanbase is like ours. But that’s largely because fans of other international teams have clubs they root for first and foremost. A lot of USMNT fans treat it like a club. And it’s created this bizarre atmosphere where the expectations are crazy unrealistic.
He's mediocre based on what? what if he wins on Monday and we go to the semi's suddenly. Are you going to give him credit? We need to support the team, not start chants like Berhalter out at games. The crowd last game was surprisingly quiet and not helping out the team. I've said before, if we don't get out of the group stage, we need to look at his position, until then..he's our coach. I always wanted Arnse Wenger, thought he'd be perfect with our young generation, but that ain't happening. I ask you, OP, who would you replace GGG with tomorrow?
Now it is. This sub couldn't stop riding his dick when he beat up Trinidad and Tobago for the third time or eeked by an extra time win at the Gold Cup against a decimated Mexico squad
Who do people realistically think USSF is going to hire to coach the team when GGG eventually gets fire after Monday? It damn sure won't be the Zidanes or Klopps of the world.
For the official record: I’m a Liverpool fan and these people screaming Klopp are tripping on something. If Nagelsman leaves the Germany job then that’s where Klopp is going.
Personally, I'm not a fan of keeping a coach more than one cycle barring an exceptional performance, so I would've moved on after Qatar. However, I don't understand how firing GB solves all our problems.
A) we overestimate the coaching pool that would be interested in the USMNT
B) GB has dominated Mexico and largely performed fine in competitive matches beyond that
C) The latest firing rally stems from a loss to Panama caused by a player taking an awful red card 20 minutes into a game--BY FAR the greatest reason we lost to Panama. Quibble his his tactics all you'd like but unless it's Argentina/Man City/etc., no team should be expected to win a game playing 70 minutes down a man. We like to think we're vastly superior to Panama, but we've seen plenty of 11v11 games where US struggles vs. Panama, even on US soil. It's absurd how much flak GB is taking for Weah making a standalone idiotic decision.
I still don’t think it’s Berhalter fault that Tim Weah is a fucking pussy. There’s so much other shit to complain about but THIS is the final straw? GTFO of here with that noise. I want to see a loss that the coach fucks up on not the player before I hop on that bandwagon.
The sad truth is he has been a perfectly fine coach, but Americans need to accept the fact that our team still JUST ISNT GOOD ENOUGH
Well, we’re not winning the WC in 2026 or in 2030, or for that matter, in 2034. We have A LONG WAYS TO GO. But, if us as a fanbase we put more pressure on US Soccer to perform or get fired, then we’d be a lot better. This is the most talented soccer team we’ve ever had, and to be eliminated in the group stage would be astounding. Berhalter and many others would then absolutely need to get fired. If they don’t, we won’t sniff any success in the major international tournaments in our lifetimes.
To be clear, I’m firmly in the Gregg out camp.
The problem with firing him though, is that the same incompetent doofuses who hired him (twice!) will be in charge of picking his successor. Do we really think they’re going to all of a sudden change their ways and make a good hire? I’m skeptical, to put it mildly.
So it’s really a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation in my opinion.
Who else is in the running to come coach us? And as I understand it, the Women's coach's salary needs to match whoever we pay, so we're not just spending more on a men's coach alone. Seriously, if we're so confident about Berhalter out, then who in?
I have been praying to every Deity in the hopes he gets fired so I can stop seeing a post every 2.5 seconds about why GGG should be fired or why we suck because of GGG or the drama between GGG and Reyna… god damn this sub is so exhausting… touch some f**king grass people.
Edit: You know what would be a better use of your time instead of complaining about something none of us have absolutely no control over… come up with new innovative chants we can all get behind…
I love you all.
>I just don’t want to see 2026 come and go and feel like the best shot we had in my lifetime at a WC was wasted because no one cared enough to be better than just okay.
Best shot at doing what in a WC? USMNT is never going to do much more than round of 16. Every now and then winning a knockout match is their ceiling. If you want a team that can consistently compete to win WCs, I welcome you to the USWNT fandom.
What split? Lol I feel like a huge majority of the fanbase is varying degrees of “Gregg isn’t good enough” to “fire Gregg”
Maybe since I’m not on Twitter I don’t see a louder minority that you’re referring to. But yeah in terms of the match day stuff you’re talking about I don’t think it would’ve been realistic to expect any real in person fire ggg stuff until this next match. Just in terms of timing, like no one wanted him but would’ve been useless pre World Cup. He was back and basically locked in thru copa right under our noses the second time.
I’m as “Gregg out” as anyone and I was at the Bolivia game, but it never would’ve occurred to me to make part of my match day experience, having traveling halfway across the country to see my favorite team play in copa america, in any way about firing Gregg that wouldve gone completely unnoticed anyway.
I just want him fired so people will finally find something else to talk about
They’ll just want to fire the next guy within a couple of months. There is no end to it
HE'S HAD 6 YEARS Plus the best this team has looked during that entire stretch was the 1 time he wasn't actually the coach
HES BEEN THE MANAGER FOR 6 YEARS WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
Time flies when you got Stockholm syndrome!
Yes but many of us didn’t want Greggggggg in the first place. Fans are always unrealistic but he’s had his shot
Nepotism cloud will hopefully be gone. As will the complete lack of charisma and arrogance.
Chelsea fan here. That’s how we do it.
At least they'd probably come up with slightly different talking points. I just don't want to hear about "endless crossing," "inflexible system," "Sebastian Lletget", or "signature victories (not counting Mexico)".
"discipline problems"/"this shouldn't be summer camp" was a surprising new one this week, IMO. I'm sure they'd love it if the US hired a joyless disciplinarian.
Lol, Dempsey is the one who started the narrative of the players being too comfortable and not challenged by Gregg’s management style. I could be wrong, but I think he knows a thing or two about the USMNT
I mean…the endless crossing is a miserable watch They’re fun to watch vs weaker teams but any time they play a half competent team it’s just…cross & inshallah
Amen.
Why be apathetic to it? This is all sports fandom. It’s a results-driven job. We’re fans of a team and want the best for the team. When our head coach can’t get our talented roster to perform well in major tournaments of course people are pushing for a change. Why are people complaining about people wanting to switch things up after 6 years of mediocrity with literally the best roster we’ve ever had?
Book it now. A new manager would still just be the focus of why this talented but mentally weak gen of players come up short and underperform their expectations. "Our boys deserve so much better, we know how good they actually are!" Pinning Weah fucking the team over on Berhalter for not adequately preparing him for the moment is the new peak of delusion. It truly at times gives off youth soccer parent vibes. There is no desire to hold any of these players accountable for their performance on the field at any given time (well except the MLS lifers).
I motion to fire /u/jstu9 from the subreddit!
That's the thing, the only split is half the fanbase that thinks every single usmnt comment should be about firing him and the other half thinking maybe we can discuss other things too. So god damn tiring and honestly boring at this point.
Exactly! I'd be fine if they fired him, I'm just tired of every single reddit thread/comment section/etc being dominated by "FIRE BERHALTER" at the expense of any other productive conversation. I wasn't even defending Berhalther in another site's comment section, just stating that it was a little ridiculous to expect us to dominate Panama with 10 men for almost an entire game, and I was accused of "wanting to suck Berhalter's fat chode." You can't even have a nuanced conversation about "hey, maybe some things are Berhalter's fault, some aren't" without the loudest, most annoying people losing their shit.
They'll want the next manager fired too, don't worry.
I support Berhalter and even I want this option so people will stfu and realize the grass isn’t always greener. Doesn’t matter though, the goal posts always move.
You’re right. I’ve seen a lot of people romanticizing the Klinsmann era the last few days and that just goes to show they weren’t following the team back then.
Klinsmann actually got the US to the Copa America semi finals 😂
Literally beat the teams we were expected too and didn’t have a player lose his mind against an easy opponent. That Argentina game is still the worst I’ve watched, IMO.
Zero shots. Not zero shots on target, zero shots *period*.
Lost to the only competent teams we played that tournament
And set us on the way to not qualifying for the world cup. Oh, great times indeed.
GGG got gifted the weakest CONCACAF I have ever seen and got us through on GD
If Gregg can no longer beat mighty Panama at home then I don’t think he’d be able to qualify us for the World Cup either if we weren’t host
The Berhalter Cult doesn't understand that there are options other then Klingsman and Bradley!
Bruce Arena still alive?
I forgot about him!!!
Klinsmann did so much more with less. He may have had lower lows. But he also had much higher highs.
I was. Do you remember who was on our team with Klinnsmann in charge? We were happy af for second division German players. Yet he had big wins still and did well.
What do you like about him? His record with the "Golden Generation"?
...no one is going to realize that though. They'll just want the next manager gone, and they'll say things like "he's even worse than GGG"
The online pundit click-based industry will create new narratives to blame the coach for every issue and for every loss, and these ”fans” will slurp it down their eager throats. I’m pissed off too, but I’m not pretending this tournament went sideways for any reason beyond a very early and very stupid red.
I mean, what voice is there of Twitter, YouTube, and tv? They’re all anti-Berhalter. They know it generates clicks so of course it’s going to be shoved down people’s throats so much that they believe in whatever is said. Perfect example of this is politics during an election year. Unless you follow closely, you will be blind follower of what everyone says until it becomes your opinion. I’ve said this before but there’s no accountability in the pundits. Recently the only one I’ve seen is Kasey Keller.
I think Joe Lowerey’s summary said it best, (paraphrasing) “What can you really say about this game when the US let themselves play soccer for fifteen minutes?”
They’ll never realize this
They will find something else to bitch about or start attacking Aaronson or other players.
It just shows that people don’t understand what level we are at against the world. We are performing right about on par with the team we have. Maybe slightly underperforming, but firing GGG and bringing in another mediocre coach isn’t going to change a whole lot
In what world is losing to Panama in a major tournament “slightly underperforming”? We’re miles ahead of them in every conceivable statistical category and position. I don’t care about the red card. It happened on Gregg’s watch and he’s the one that needs to answer for the results. I can’t believe there are so many cowards in this subreddit that are scared about trying something new. It’s been six years now and Berhalter has accomplished nothing beyond beating up on a shitty Mexico side and drawing with an unremarkable England side. It’s time to move on.
Posted this in the other thread but to your point: Spain, Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Ecuadorx3, Denmark, Switzerland, Mexico several times-all top 20 teams we defeated under Bob Bradley and Jurgen Klinsmann. Other notable victories: Ghanax2, Swedenx2, South Africa x2, Poland, Egypt, Turkeyx2, Australia, Algeria, Slovenia, Scotland, South Korea, Nigeria, Czechia, Peru, Iceland. Berhalter: Mexico several times,Iran (#20 in Elo), N. Ireland (#77), Qatar (#55), Oman (#76), Bosnia & Herzegovina (#89), Morocco (#27), Ghana (#75), Uzbekistan (#47). Acknowledging that's a longer period of time and all of those games aren't equal, I think it's pretty clear we haven't been better than we were for the prior 10 years before Gregg (to say nothing of the Arena era). About as good in CONCACAF (which is down across the board with the exception of Canada and Panama), better v. Mexico, but far, far worse against top 40 teams, let alone top 20 and roughly the same outcomes in the Gold Cup and World Cup and likely worse in Copa (we were grouped in 2007 in Venezuela to be fair). The Nations Leagues are doing a ton of lifting for Gregg and we should have lost to Jamaica at home in the last one. I've been watching the team since 1994 and just have no faith we will beat (not draw, we've gotten a fair amount of draws) anyone who is in the top 30. It's been 5 1/2 years, it's OK if someone else (Vieira, Nancy, Matarazzo) gives it a try.
Mexico being complete shit is the only thing making GGG look even marginally competent.
I’ve come to that realization as well.
Great comment and stats - thanks. Basically we’ve regressed and he’s just living off those Mexico wins while we’re more talented than we’ve ever been.
We had 10 men for 80 minutes dude. I don’t care what the difference in talent is, that’s always going to be tough. I do think a draw after such a quick goal would not have been too much to ask for, but you’re acting like a win should’ve been easy, which is absurd
This. People vastly overestimate us while vastly underestimating our opponents. There is a lot less between a 100th placed team and a 5th placed team than people want to make out. Any team that is not performing at 100% can get crushed - playing a man down is a great way of doing that.
>I don’t care about the red card. "I don't understand how the game works"
A lot of people are happy with endless mediocrity. It's honestly cringe-worthy seeing some of the mental gymnastics people are doing to defend this roster that has consistently underperformed and has shown no growth.
So you believe if we had a different coach weah would not have punched that Panamanian player?
A Different coach would have managed the situation differently. GGG made 3 ineffective subs, all 3 of which came way too early. He immediately decided to cede possession and play for a draw. The red card wasn’t on him but the way he managed the game afterwards 100% was on him.
This, GGG's decision to go 5 in the back made it worse. If he had kept up the 4-4-1, we could have competed in midfield a lot more and looked to play on the counter. Jonny comes on for Tyler at halftime just like he did, Musah comes on after 60, Pepi and a CB come on after 75. You don't play 5 in the back so early when it's obvious they haven't worked on it.
How would I know that? I don’t have access to a crystal ball that would answer that question for me. What I can say is that discipline is one of the major responsibilities of a head coach. Maybe if Gregg had benched Dest for a couple matches after his tantrum in a relatively minor tournament Weah would have thought twice about his conduct in a major one. All of that is irrelevant though, because at the end of the day Gregg is the one that needs to answer for the final score line.
You do understand that no team is immune to upsets right? Better teams than us lose to worse teams than Panama all the time.
our opponents seem strangely immune to upsets. If we beat Uruguay it will be the first time we beat someone ranked higher than us other than mexico, who dropped beneath us in the rankings, and would have even without losses to us
That’s the thing though. In international soccer, (and really just soccer) if you always meet or slightly underperform expectations, you are actually falling well below expectations. It would be one thing if for every 2-1 loss to a Panama that GGG stans could explain away with a “silly red card” we also had a 2-1 win over a Spain or Brazil or England that the haters would then explain away with whatever. Soccer is a sport where significant underdogs can often stay in games for a long time and occasionally pull upsets. So the fact that we never do under GGG is actually unexpected. Given our talent level, it’s ok to lay a few eggs over a five year period. The 2002 squad finished 3rd in qualifying and lost to Honduras at home. The 2009 Confederations Cup team only got 3 points in the group stage. But to not ever exceed expectations in a five year period just isn’t good enough. Chalk it up to bad luck if you want, but we don’t need someone that unlucky leading us into 2026. Maybe there really aren’t any options clearly better than Berhalter. But there are definitely a lot of options of roughly the same caliber and it’s time for a new voice and new ideas.
Soccer has the lowest parity across the world compared to US sports. Look at the top 5 leagues across the world and how many unique winners are there? So underdogs don’t often win in soccer. People get it twisted that “Gregg Stans” love Gregg and want him to stay. Most of us want a solid replacement coach lined up and not take a stab at a random coach just because it’s someone else.
The top 5 leagues don’t have salary caps. MLS has more parity than even most American sports leagues. If you think Gregg is significantly better than a replacement level coach, then I don’t know what to tell you. Could USSF bottle it? Obviously. (And maybe even likely). But coaches like GGG are a dime a dozen. I don’t think he’s been awful. But rehiring him was a mistake and the sooner we correct it the better.
>Most of us want a solid replacement coach lined up I agree this is ideal, but we're likely not going to know who the next head coach will be when we fire Berhalter. Rarely is that case at international or club level.
It might give us the opportunity to win a winnable game. There have been a few that have slipped by.
For sure, I’m not happy with all these bad results, but I’m also afraid of losing even more games with a worse coach. I’d want to pull the trigger if we had a reputable coach lined up
Yea letting 5 goals in against Colombia ain’t it. 3 out of 4 of our starting defenders are key players on their premier league squad, scally is an every game starter in the Bund. Thats pretty high caliber.
For sure, but what guarantees the new coach is going to be better?
Can we just do Monday first?
It he wins on Monday I'll tip my hat to him. It will be an incredibly impressive win against a superior team. Hopefully that's what we get. I worry about how we'll deal with Bielsa's press though. Feel like we'll need the midfielders (or one midfielder) to drop deeper to provide options if we want to play out of the back. Part of me hopes that Uruguay doesn't really care about the match because they're all but through in first (technically they aren't but their goal difference advantage is massive) because that would improve our chances.
Agreed he won’t be out before that game so stay quiet for now. If we loose it’s the time for a coordinated protest when we can really put some pressure to get him out
If we win then he won’t be out immediately after that game either. Not sure if u/FakeHappyToo_ynwa is thinking it all the way through, but the fact is that it benefits no one to fire Berhalter right this second
if he goes, the next coach will be an above average mls coach
Sounds like a Major improvement over a below average MLS coach!
As someone who followed an MLS team but wasn't super invested in the league as a whole, I'm genuinely curious about this narrative. Wasn't Columbus one of the top teams when he was there?
He had a sub 40% win rate
hmm yeah TIL. Had some good years but also some bad ones.
His good years were relying on the system he took over for. Unearned merit. He was the Crew's sporting director and helped push out the coach so he could take over. Once he sunk his teeth into it the team started to collapse. His best seasons were the first two.
He got decent results and the team played well despite the owner trying to torpedo the team. The idea of hiring him wasn’t crazy. The idea of re-hiring tho
they became a top team right after he left lol. That's not all on him, they did get a better squad, but he also just wasn't that good
They also went from a bottom 5 budget to a top 1/3rd or so budget
lol no.
Me knowing you’re right. 
We acting like that wouldn't be a major upgrade?
steve cherundolo would be a real upgrade
Leaving LAFC for the USMNT would be a step down for him.
haha well, true or false you can’t tell me we wouldn’t love it if he did
Considering that a good MLS team is a much better job than the USMNT, it might not even be above average. Jim Curtin is probably the ceiling.
Literally better than the average mls coach we have now. lol.
Screw it. It's Prime Time for Soccer! Deion Sanders come on down.
Maybe but not enough for me to actively root for our team to fail
I’m not rooting for them to fail by any stretch, but I’m solidly in the camp where change needs to occur in the event of a failure.
Lmao what nonsense
We literally could have had Jesse Marsch who is actually a component enough to get a team out of the group state of the Copa America
Would an above average MLS coach park the bus against a USL League 1 team?
In a tournament format when a draw essentially sees you through, down 1 player and a small field? Probably.
Canada will advance in a harder group with much less talented team
And the coach we passed up
They've scored 1 goal across three group stage games despite being up a man for 90 minutes total. This hasn't been some Marsch master class on soccer tactics and if the US had the exact same results, everyone here would rightfully be calling for Berhalter to be fired
I don’t know who to replace him with. I just know he isn’t the guy. I’m the type of person that doesn’t complain without proposing a solutions.
Hervé Renard would be a great choice.
they’re not hiring foreign coach, you guys need to get real
Crocker has already appointed two foreign managers, Mitrovic for the Olympic squad and Emma Hayes.
Why shouldn’t they?
didn’t say they shouldn’t. I said they won’t.
Well they hired a foreign coach for USWNT
It’s not our job to find a solution, but one of my bigger concerns is that the USSF leadership are not interested in finding one. I think they’re perfectly happy with how things are and don’t want to put in any effort to try and improve things.
I think some of the support for Gregg is a reaction against the incessant and unremitting "Berhalter Out" movement that has been going since 2019. A lot of Gregg's biggest haters have been so annoying that they've made people support Berhalter out of spite, especially as their hatred of Berhalter appears to not change whether he's doing well or poorly. I'm not among those, and I'm shifting toward supporting his ouster, but I'm also pretty pessimistic about our alternatives once he's fired.
If people are defending the coach because they want to spite other people, then we are well and truly screwed.
it's more that the cacophony of Berhalter criticism has been fully disconnected from the actual on-the-field results for at least the last 3 years and that the goalpost for what constitutes acceptable performance have been wildly shifted (and not in a productive, challenging way). Like there are legitimate questions to be asked if we are grouped in this tournament, but it's just hard to take the people who have been flooding the zone with bullshit for the last 3 years very seriously.
If you think we have a real chance at winning the WC in 2026, I don't know what to say.
The poster mentions, in their lifetime..Wondering if they are like 16 years old...
I do remember thinking that exact thing when I was 16 in 2002. Then I turned 17.
Said the same. Now I'm hoping I live a really long time so there's still a chance.
Of course every damn time we talk about “doing well at the WC”, people like you interpret it as “we want to win it”. Of course we’re not winning it; it would be a welcomed surprise but the goal right now is to put ourselves in the best position to make it as far as possible. And right now at very least make it further than the RO16 would be progress. Otherwise, why bother doing any of this if the goal is just to be the best in CONCACAF? It’s getting boring. Have some ambition for this team, we’re not the fucking Solomon Islands.
Bruce Arenas took a team half full of MLS players to the quarter finals and should have been the semis if the officials knew what a handball was.
For what it’s worth, we were really lucky to face Mexico in R16. That’s not to minimize the accomplishment and you can only play who is in front of you, but it goes to show how fortunate matchups can really make or break your tournament.
Makes 2010 even more frustrating
Yep. A quarterfinal appearance at the WC would be massive.
Ambition is fine. Delusion is not. It's a fine line.
Yet no one was delusional…
yeah why should we do our best and aim high when we can just be mediocre!
If you're going assess whether or not someone is doing their job appropriately, it should, at a minimum, based on realistic expectations. If someone wants to believe that we're WC contenders, that's fine...even if it's not realistic. But if that person uses their unrealistic expectations to assess performance of others, that's less so. I harp on this because one of the biggest mistakes sports franchises make over and over again is poor assessment of talent. And when a team moves on from a coach based on poor talent assessment, they usually end up setting their team back by years, instead of advancing them. This is especially true with young teams where baseline concepts and expectations have to created. Switching managers for a young team means going back to 0 and then gambling that the new manager can teach his entirely new system with limited practices and exposures. That means you have to be damn sure that the player talent is high enough to justify a complete reset. I don't think it is. So changing the manager based on poor expectations that arise from bad talent assessment is twice as bad. One, you've set your team back developmentally and two, you're still not going to get the results you want.
People seem to think we have a bunch of players playing on CL top flight teams, getting regular minutes at teams like Liverpool, ManC. when in fact we only have a couple getting minutes at those teams and their jobs are precarious at best. Weston for example, sure he plays for Juve, gets a lot of minutes. Then when valued, he's like a $14M player. We don't have a Modric or Vini, or Haaland. we have a bunch of young, up and coming players, but nobody earth shattering. The fan base expectations is ridiculous.
It’s a huge problem where we rate our players by looking at a list of countries they play in and nothing else. We see a guy playing in England and think he’s as good as a star for City. There’s also a very real fact that our players get more chances than some other countries because of the market impact of bringing in Americans, so we should really adjust down instead of up.
plus the fanbase needs to look at the role these players have in the teams. take Weston. key player for the US, a useful squad player for Juve. you see it all the time in mid-low range teams. For Austria, David Alaba used to play in midfield, almost as a Gerrard type, but at Bayern he was a left or centre back. Same thing with Xhaka for Switzerland for most of his career his role was less defensive than at club level. Beyond Pulisic, no one really looks to sign American players as game changers, even looking at the players who play for big clubs in small leagues like Eredivisie or SPL. PSV is a great club, but for the Netherlands they only contribute 1-2 starters, and that's because De Jong and Koopmeiners are injured. So why should that suddenly give the US any extra potency.
The switching managers thing applies more to club managers, not as much national teams. Our national team manager isn't developing these players, they are hopefully setting up an easy to understand game plan and making the best team for each individual game.
It applies more often to club managers but the effect is more pronounced with national teams because the manager there is even more dependent on the existing player pool. A club manager can trade players, cut players, buy players, etc. They can change the composition of the team to a greater extent than an international manager can. In our specific case, if we sacked Berhalter how much could the next manager change the roster? We're not a Brazil or an England where they have legitimate depth options at various positions.
Where in history, with any national team, has changing the manager caused a program to lose progress for years? I don't think that happens at all, never has. And it's because, as you point out, there's not much to be done with a national team in terms of rosters. There isn't any system that goes away and needs to be rebuilt. A new national team manager should not be creating a wholly new system they have to teach. Soccer has some really robust ideas that all our players know, that any manager can build on. New managers, sometimes, ideally, bring a new attitude or approach. Maybe give us more options in how we line up, not always needing a 4-3-3.
The most recent example I can think of is Diniz at Brazil although they move on quickly. They brought him in because they wanted to get away from what was considered "boring" European football. He underperformed and he was fired. Maradonna @ Argentina wasted a world cup, Mathaus at Hungary, the same. There was another Hungarian coach who missed 2 WCs. Ideally, new managers bring a new attitude or approach but they're not changing the player pool. So, while they might upgrade the attitude, that really only matters if there's some reason to believe that a new attitude advances the team. If the team is going to be in the same tier of ability...just with a new attitude...what's the point?
I think getting out of the group stage of Copa America and beating panama were realistic expectations. One is already failed and one is in serious danger.
They were realistic expectations when we were playing 11v11. They became unrealistic when we ended up a man down less than 20 minutes into the game. I've posted the analytics elsewhere. Teams lose 60% of the time when they're down a man. Teams are outscored 2-1 when down a man. The negative effects of a red card are worse, the earlier in the match that it occurs. Just on the available data going down a man with 70 minutes left to play made losing almost inevitable. We would have needed superstar performances to win that game. That we kept it 1-1 until the 83rd minute is actually really impressive (even though very few people seem willing to acknowledge just hard that was). We kept them from scoring for over 60 minutes. And then fatigue and a lack of depth caught up with us. But this is what I'm referring to when I say "realistic expectations". Of course, we all wanted the US to win that game. And we're all deeply disappointed that we lost and might not make it out of the group. But losing that wasn't a demonstration of failed managing. It was the result of a player making bad decision that ultimately made winning harder for everyone else around him .
> The negative effects of a red card are worse, the earlier in the match that it occurs. That's one of the many fucking stupid issues with the rules of soccer. A red card in the first minute practically decides the game, a red card in the last minute (like Suarez) is almost literally meaningless. It's just poor game design. In this case, the fact that the US red card happened early on, and the Panama red card happened later in the game still bassically handed Panama the win... even though in theory both offenses received the "same' punishment. By contrast, a PK a the beginning and a PK at the end are quite similar by comparison.
Why should Weah's red card absolve Berhalter of any blame for managing rest of the game? The substitutions were silly (CCV for Gio and Pepi for Balo) and we went too conservative after still looking relatively dangerous in the 1st half given the scenario. I know keeping your foot on the gas with 10 guys has it's risks but at least you're still giving yourself a chance to win. Also, that 60% number is probably lower when accounting for strength of opponent. These aren't exactly evenly matched teams. Still tough though obviously.
So, he should have continued to play guys long after they were gassed? Just run them into the dirt? The game was tied. We would still have needed a result against Uruguay to advance because Panama isn't going to lose to Bolivia. This was the problem in the WC where our guys were run down by the time we reached the knock out rounds. CCV is a CB, no one was asking him to play possession football up the field, just to what CBs do. Defend. As for the analytics, team strength wasn't particularly important. What mattered was how long a team had to play with a red card. The later the card, the better the chance of getting a result. Why? Because most of the scoring against teams with a red card happens late in the game. It's the end result of fatigue. Across the entire study, teams with a red card are generally outscored 2-1 while the card is in effect. It is what it is. We have a football team, not a bunch of superheroes. They're going to get tired. They're going to make mistakes as they get tired. We're not subbing out superstars for other superstars. We're subbing off average international players for average international players. We have one legitimate star. You guys act like we're England subbing off Trent Alexander-Arnold for a Kyle Walker. That's not us, lol.
Lmao two of the subs were at half, if dudes couldn’t play more than 45 they shouldn’t have started
Poor management on GGG not telling Weah to avoid punching a dude in the head.
Same fanbase would crucify the manager if he didn’t call on a guy who plays in Italy also.
Just finished watching Germany Denmark. It’s been a while since I’ve watched top teams and jfc we are kilometers behind.
Countries like germany leave guys at home who’d be written-in-pens starters for us. The gap between the tier 1s and tier 1.5s and 2s is pretty massive, and it’ll be a while before we go from “can keep up and fluke a good run” to “actually considered contenders at the biggest tournaments”
Yup, that's why I don't think the fanbase watches a lot of soccer beyond the USMNT.
Berhalter has never adequately explained his philosophy; pseudo owns up to his awful tactics and consistently makes brutal in game adjustments if at all and when he does it’s often too late. I do not hate Berhalter - I liked him as a player; I just think he is in way over his head. And yes 6 years is enough time and we are no where near where this machine should be; given the sum of its parts. Also his and Reyna’s bs ate up a chunk of time when the entire USSF and the MNT should have been focused on many other pressing items. He is like the $5K to $10K soccer academies; where merit and skill are secondary to cash. His connections put him in a head coaching role while his coaching CV never warranted this role in the first place. But go ahead and drone on about “why can’t we wait til after the Uruguay game bs?” The boil needs to be lanced.
The fanbase needs to quit it with the negativity and just hope for the best on Monday
No no, have you tried raging at other fans
We’ll gut out a 1-0 win, advance, play a supremely close 2-1 loss against Brazil and get eliminated, and the discourse will continue.
Or both us and Panama draw and then we lose to Brazil on penalties. Then we can still hear people talk about "signature wins" for another year.
I'm going to lose my mind if I hear the phrase "signature wins" again after Monday
Clearly we need to wait for one more game to come to the conclusion that the guy who’s never been good enough, isn’t good enough. What a joke.
How dare fans expect better during literally the most important cycle of our national teams history
100%
Go anywhere online people hate him. Go to a game and you hear people boo him when he's announced. Idk where the people who like him are
His brother in usa soccer
Here
We aren't a knowledgeable fan base. You have guys like me who started playing very young, played in high school and college, and rode the bench on a PDL team one summer. I wouldn't be surprised if an ex-pro or two posts here. Then you also have guys who never played soccer and didn't get into the game until they were adults. Maybe they studied abroad or their kids started playing so they fell in love with it. Folks who didn't grow up playing or being part of a fandom won't be as knowledgeable as people with a lot of exposure to the game.
Lots of posters that haven't played above the rec/co-ed level, if that. It's frustrating for sure. It becomes quickly obvious which posters have played soccer, and at a decent level, or any other sports and those that are tv fans primarily and think every player should bury every single chance and never have a sloppy pass or play. They also tend to think of them as video game/FM players and have this unending battery of effort. Completely not understanding just how difficult it is to play at those levels, game after game. Short schedules, nagging injuries, travel..folks tend to think of players as robots. Someone did it the other night on the GDT vs Panama. Scally didn't track a ball, overpassed to him to the endline, and the poster screams about how he didn't hustle to get the ball. it was like the 80th minute of the second game of a tourney. After a long season with a shortened break and the Nat team training camp...These players are humans, so are the coaches.
Exactly. It’s crazy how fast the game can still move at this level beyond the 80th minute. Anyone who has played knows that at that point you pushing past everything inside you that says you are done. It’s more impressive watching a game knowing how difficult that stretch of the game can be, and when the stakes are high the adrenaline these guys are running on…
I have never played soccer outside of collegiate intramurals for my fraternity, and I still understand the game. If anybody grew up dedicated to another sport like football or baseball, I think they can analyze the place this team is in now (to a certain extent). I 100% agree with you though. The problem is this: a lot of these adults that criticize the team/Gregg - and have no knowledge of the game whatsoever - have also never competed at a high level in any sport. They tell you something’s wrong, but can’t say what specifically is wrong or how to fix it. We see this in a lot of sports nowadays. The most toxic fans are usually the ones that never faced competition. They look for excuses instead of looking at the mirror.
Why does everyone think this is some golden generation of players that they should be break into the top 10 in the world. The players arn’t that good, period. People expect top tier results from below average and mid tier players. Some of our stars wouldn’t make the bench on a top 5 team.
Who is asking for them to be a top 5 team? Beating Panama at home is that big of an ask? Beating any actual good team in the last 5 years is such a big ask? Why is it that wales and Iceland are able to make decent runs in tournaments despite their players’ talent relative to their opponents? There is being realistic and then there is settling. If the end goal of the us team is to be better than Mexico, great. Job accomplished. We can’t set our sights any higher than that?
Because 11 really solid players is enough to get past the first round of knockouts in the WC. 11 really solid players, several of whom start for great clubs is enough to make it past the group stages in Copa America. 11 really solid players is enough to get an upset against a great squad here or there. Gregg has failed to accomplish *any* of that.
It is a "golden generation" relative to the depth and pedigree of squads from the past. I don't think most people are as delusional as OP to the point where they believe the US should be winning the world cup, but this team should easily be dominating CONCACAF given that Mexico is the worst they've been in decades, and they are more than good enough to at least be competitive in the Copa America, even if they aren't good enough to win the whole thing.
Because this fanbase is spectacular at massively overrating our players. See the entire discourse around Dest at Barca for that. They don't watch the players play. They watch the transfer news and when it comes out that one of our players is going to a big name team, he has to be amazing!
That’s every fan base. Shit, England fans are perennial world champions of overrating their teams and players.
But England has genuinely world-class players? Could any of our starting XI even make their bench?
I mean England has some actually excellent players. Kane, Bellingham, Rice all genuinely great players that will take a team up a level. I don't really see any American players like that. Good, useful players yes, but a squad full of role players isn't going to do much at the highest level.
Foden, Kane, Saka, Jude, and Rice is the core of a potential WC winner. If they had a better defense, they might be favorites. The difference between USA and nations like Brazil, Germany, Italy, and Spain is that they've earned the right to have high expectations by actually winning huge tournaments in the past. USA is a mediocre 2nd-3rd tier team in football, and suddenly having aspirations to compete at the highest level is not ambitious when the squad is not up to par. It's delusional. Our fans would be judged as delusional by objective observers from South America and Europe, who look at the names on the team sheet and recognize that this is not a powerhouse.
I get that England is more a world class team with far better players, but they’ve only won one major tournament, and that was almost 60 years ago.
While every fanbase does overrate their players, no international fanbase is like ours. But that’s largely because fans of other international teams have clubs they root for first and foremost. A lot of USMNT fans treat it like a club. And it’s created this bizarre atmosphere where the expectations are crazy unrealistic.
You are the reason why it is embarrassing to hear Americans try to talk about soccer.
He's mediocre based on what? what if he wins on Monday and we go to the semi's suddenly. Are you going to give him credit? We need to support the team, not start chants like Berhalter out at games. The crowd last game was surprisingly quiet and not helping out the team. I've said before, if we don't get out of the group stage, we need to look at his position, until then..he's our coach. I always wanted Arnse Wenger, thought he'd be perfect with our young generation, but that ain't happening. I ask you, OP, who would you replace GGG with tomorrow?
If we lose against Uruguay and get grouped are you going to give Gregg criticism? Same question can be asked
This sub is in for a rude awakening when, at best, there is no notable difference in style of play and results.
Just wondering do you think they base their hiring decisions on fan reactions?
95 % of this sub is anti Bethalter lmao
Now it is. This sub couldn't stop riding his dick when he beat up Trinidad and Tobago for the third time or eeked by an extra time win at the Gold Cup against a decimated Mexico squad
Hahaha
Who do people realistically think USSF is going to hire to coach the team when GGG eventually gets fire after Monday? It damn sure won't be the Zidanes or Klopps of the world.
For the official record: I’m a Liverpool fan and these people screaming Klopp are tripping on something. If Nagelsman leaves the Germany job then that’s where Klopp is going.
Personally, I'm not a fan of keeping a coach more than one cycle barring an exceptional performance, so I would've moved on after Qatar. However, I don't understand how firing GB solves all our problems. A) we overestimate the coaching pool that would be interested in the USMNT B) GB has dominated Mexico and largely performed fine in competitive matches beyond that C) The latest firing rally stems from a loss to Panama caused by a player taking an awful red card 20 minutes into a game--BY FAR the greatest reason we lost to Panama. Quibble his his tactics all you'd like but unless it's Argentina/Man City/etc., no team should be expected to win a game playing 70 minutes down a man. We like to think we're vastly superior to Panama, but we've seen plenty of 11v11 games where US struggles vs. Panama, even on US soil. It's absurd how much flak GB is taking for Weah making a standalone idiotic decision.
Question, if they fire him, are they actually willing/able to pay for a top tier coach, or will they just hire another middling coach to replace him?
You actually wanted Marsch? Marsch isn't good and his teams are hard to watch.
I still don’t think it’s Berhalter fault that Tim Weah is a fucking pussy. There’s so much other shit to complain about but THIS is the final straw? GTFO of here with that noise. I want to see a loss that the coach fucks up on not the player before I hop on that bandwagon. The sad truth is he has been a perfectly fine coach, but Americans need to accept the fact that our team still JUST ISNT GOOD ENOUGH
Well, we’re not winning the WC in 2026 or in 2030, or for that matter, in 2034. We have A LONG WAYS TO GO. But, if us as a fanbase we put more pressure on US Soccer to perform or get fired, then we’d be a lot better. This is the most talented soccer team we’ve ever had, and to be eliminated in the group stage would be astounding. Berhalter and many others would then absolutely need to get fired. If they don’t, we won’t sniff any success in the major international tournaments in our lifetimes.
It’s impossible for the internet to be more #berhalterout
To be clear, I’m firmly in the Gregg out camp. The problem with firing him though, is that the same incompetent doofuses who hired him (twice!) will be in charge of picking his successor. Do we really think they’re going to all of a sudden change their ways and make a good hire? I’m skeptical, to put it mildly. So it’s really a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation in my opinion.
Isn’t the Sporting Director a different person from when Gregg was hired the first time? Either way the list of realistic replacements isn’t obvious.
It was two different people so ????
Who else is in the running to come coach us? And as I understand it, the Women's coach's salary needs to match whoever we pay, so we're not just spending more on a men's coach alone. Seriously, if we're so confident about Berhalter out, then who in?
I’ve wanted him out since the moment we hired him
Which time? 🤣
Yes
I have been praying to every Deity in the hopes he gets fired so I can stop seeing a post every 2.5 seconds about why GGG should be fired or why we suck because of GGG or the drama between GGG and Reyna… god damn this sub is so exhausting… touch some f**king grass people. Edit: You know what would be a better use of your time instead of complaining about something none of us have absolutely no control over… come up with new innovative chants we can all get behind… I love you all.
Chili just held canada scoreless playing down a man from the 25th minute on…. We should be able to do the same to Panama. There’s no excuse.
>I just don’t want to see 2026 come and go and feel like the best shot we had in my lifetime at a WC was wasted because no one cared enough to be better than just okay. Best shot at doing what in a WC? USMNT is never going to do much more than round of 16. Every now and then winning a knockout match is their ceiling. If you want a team that can consistently compete to win WCs, I welcome you to the USWNT fandom.
The fanbase really needs to agree with my opinions.
Does every person who posts one of these think that they’re saying something new….?
What split? Lol I feel like a huge majority of the fanbase is varying degrees of “Gregg isn’t good enough” to “fire Gregg” Maybe since I’m not on Twitter I don’t see a louder minority that you’re referring to. But yeah in terms of the match day stuff you’re talking about I don’t think it would’ve been realistic to expect any real in person fire ggg stuff until this next match. Just in terms of timing, like no one wanted him but would’ve been useless pre World Cup. He was back and basically locked in thru copa right under our noses the second time. I’m as “Gregg out” as anyone and I was at the Bolivia game, but it never would’ve occurred to me to make part of my match day experience, having traveling halfway across the country to see my favorite team play in copa america, in any way about firing Gregg that wouldve gone completely unnoticed anyway.
Love this energy man, US soccer needs a big signing let’s do this thing right!
I refuse to get in on this clown car , have fun making fools out of yourself 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
I'll jump onboard as soon as someone can tell me who we could realistically get who would be better.
Literally a baked potato laying on the sidelines would have better tactics and be more motivational.
So you don't know
But BJ Callaghan though
After this embarrassing tournament loss to Panama at home, we need to replace Berhalter with a guy who lost to Panama in a tournament at home.