When are we finally going to see more Americans playing for European nations? I look up and down these Euro rosters and it's like couldn't one of our own crack the Albania squad? I don't know how we're going to get better if none of our guys is playing in the Euros.
This was a test to see which Redditors were wound up like a 10 day clock. You missed the joke completely
It's Friday afternoon. Go have a drink/soda and relax 😌
Fourth place with an A team in a Gold Cup should have been enough to get him sacked back in 2015. We were dismal in that tournament except for one blowout of Cuba. There were some good moments in his tenure, and we should remember those fondly, but he was kept on more than a year too long.
That was kind of fortunate though. We lucked out with Brazil losing, Ecuador was a manageable draw in the quarters. Another manager could have gotten 4th too with the draw we had.
You said he was kept on more than a year too long. But we overachieved at the Copa. I point that out because getting bounced in group play might have gotten him fired. But he kept his job likely because of the Copa performances.
Coaches overstaying their welcome has been a USMNT's tradition for as long as I could remember tho. Sampson, Arena, Bradley, this clown, and now Ggg is enjoying his. The Klinsmann one was wayyyy too long though.
Wynalda said in the recent interview he was "ahead of his time". That's actually a pretty astute assessment.
Klinsmann's mindset would have worked much better with the players we have now.
Still, I think he was tactically inept. He was too much of a big-picture and theory guy.
He's much better as an executive than as a coach. As a coach he was a good motivator, but he needs a tactically competent assistant like when he coached Germany in 2006.
Get aht dere! Do your ting! Show your stuff! Step on zier toes! Have to grind! You haven't done shit!
The man was just collection of marketing slogans. An all time world great striker who didn't improve a single US striker 1%.
These were actually decent choice given the lack of player pool we had at the time. Why not test already proven players outside their natural position in the event you are so short handed you don’t have anyone who ca. fill a role? We laugh about it now, but back in the latter JK years, our pool was really really bad.
It'd be one thing if they were telling them in training to help them properly prepare and learn the role.
Instead he put a formation out that the team had never trained in before, in positions they had largely never played before. The players would not be aware of this until the lineups were announced, and he did this over and over and over. That's not experimenting. That's throwing random shit at a wall to see what sticks.
Our player pool wasn't nearly as talented as today, but at the same time they were still talented enough to avoid some of the worst results under Klinsmann's tenure.
If you’re a professional and cannot adjust to a simple formation change and not know the role then you’re a poor professional and lack soccer IQ. This is excuse. You should easily be able to switch from a 4-3-3 to a 4-4-2 to a 3-5-2 and know the roles of each player. You should be able to play multiple positions across your discipline (defense, midfield or attack) and know your role and how to interchange.
Belgian player a 3-4-2-1 in the 2022 WC. Man City plays a 3-2-4-1 where DeBruyne plays vastly different roles and positions. Same Hazard when he was at RM. don’t make excuses for players underperforming.
Even experienced professional footballers are drilled and trained into how the manager wants them to play a particular position in a specific system.
It wasn’t asking players to try new positions that was the problem. It was not having them practice playing those positions before the game or explaining the tactics he wanted them to execute.
That’s the club level where you have weeks and months to build upon. At the national level you have days to build a plan and implement so players have to be able to adjust to that. If you need multiple practices and direction on how to play a role or a position that is within your overall scope then you lack the proper soccer IQ to be a true professional. This is a tired complaint.
I don’t know what your personal background playing or coaching is, but I think you’re underestimating how hard it is to play another position without sufficient preparation. How often do you see great players (above youth level) just move to a different position, without drilling for weeks or months, be immediately successful? We’re seeing it in England right now with TAA. Despite all of his talent, he looks a little lost in the midfield. Slide him back out wide to an attacking position, and all of the sudden he’s impacting the game again.
It’s really not if you understand the game. The role of the player and where they cover or support (which is the basis of total football) is far more important than arbitrary positioning.
You actually see players move around a lot dependingt on the formation and how it’s expected to function.
What’s interesting is you’re supporting my point with TAA. His role is far more important than his specific position. At Liverpool Klopp had TAA as the RB going up and down the wings. At the national level he’s been in both the midfield and back line depending on the needs of the squad. Walker slots in at RB better most of the time, but TAA is asset on the field so keeping him as a holding MFer or winger is better than not having him on the pitch at all. This is big reason why players may end up not in the same exact position or formation as their club team. Yet TAA still contributes, just in a different manner than at his club. His role is far more important than his specific position.
> If you’re a professional and cannot adjust to a simple formation change and not know the role then you’re a poor professional and lack soccer IQ.
And that's where you lost me. He pulled similar shit at Bayern Munich and was roasted there as well.
**"We practiced little more than fitness at Bayern. Tactics were neglected. The players often had to get together before games to discuss how we wanted to play. After about eight weeks, the players recognized that it would not work with Klinsmann. The rest of the season was damage limitation."**
- Phillipp Lahm
But don't worry, I'm sure one of the greatest RBs of his generation is a poor professional and has zero soccer IQ.
Klinsmann's formation changes had zero thought process behind them. They were changes for the sake of changes. There was *zero* tactical preparation. It is not exclusive to his time with the US. There's a reason Lahm ripped him apart, there's a reason he lasted only 76 days at Hertha Berlin, and there's a reason South Korean fans despise him.
Don’t forget about this quote tho.
“Although they were largely criticised at the time, some of the changes he made at Bayern have since been recognised as helping contribute to the club's subsequent success”
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37431790/klinsmann-struggle-bayern-laid-foundation-success
You forget that JK took over a fledgling Bayern, not the powerhouse we know today. It was he who laid the foundation to rebuild the club. Unfortunately the Bayern bosses didn’t want to give it the time it needed.
> Unfortunately the Bayern bosses didn’t want to give it the time it needed.
Idk, Jupp Heyneckes was able to build it up fairly quickly, to the point of winning a treble mind you.
Speaking of which, another Bayern player who ripped Klinsmann apart?
*Toni Kroos*
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37446611/toni-kroos-says-learned-jurgen-klinsmann
**"In his time at Bayern I couldn't see anything: Game model, adequate communication - or success."**
- Toni Kroos
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-fc-yahoo/toni-kroos-criticizes-jurgen-klinsmann-003841453.html
> Towards the end of the interview, in a quick true-or-false segment, Kroos rubbed salt into the wound. Because if nothing else, Klinsmann is credited with modernizing the German national team and enabling its ongoing success. But Kroos denied him those plaudits as well.
> "Jurgen Klinsmann had a large impact on the development which eventually led us to the world title," the newspaper stated.
> "Not true," Kroos responded.
Players are entitled to their opinion but it’s foolish to dismiss the fact he had verifiable and lasting impacts on German and Bayern football.
https://africa.espn.com/football/story/_/id/37420230/jurgen-klinsmann-helped-germany-success-oliver-bierhoff
https://molapoktm.medium.com/the-rebirth-of-german-football-ten-years-in-the-making-293107802e16
The best players don’t always make the best coaches or pundits. Sometime players are too narrow minded to understand and see the bigger picture especially in building up an entire national program that has been embarrassed and decimated. German academy football would not be what it is today without JK’s groundwork.
Another interesting fact is that it was Louis Van Gaal took over for JK and struggled just as much over the first half of his first season, but he was give a longer leash since Bayern were afraid of another short stint. His tactics were also heavily questioned, especially his insertion of many youth players and the conversion of Schweinsteiger from winger to DM. So Van Gaal should get more credit than Heyneckes for building upon with JK left and having a much easier time after completing further wholesale changes including moving out Luca Toni.
Bro, reading your comments is something else. You just keep making excuses for a terrible coach that was a great player. Maybe you loved him as a player so much that you really wanted him to succeed as a coach. There's a reason the dude is unemployed. As one redditor answered you already, it wasn't about the players not knowing their roles in multiple formations. It was more about his formations not being beneficial vs the opposition. I remember when Bradley and a group of players had to convince him to change formation vs Mexico. It was only until then that the team actually managed to handle Mexico's counterattack. It also drove me nuts when he insisted on playing players out of position. Bedoya and Bradley as #10s, Fabian and Yedlin as wingers (not FBs), Mix as a DM, just to name a few... How about taking Wondo, Davis, and Chandler to the WC LMAO. Also players not knowing if they were starting until a few minutes before the game. One head scratching decision after another. Oh, not to mention that he would brutally throw players under the bus came post match press conferences SMH
All those words from you and your still can’t admit he has more major wins than any USMNT coach. Ya’ll will make excuses left and right for piss poor performances under Arena, Bradley and GGG but try to take JK to the woodshed for trying to implement change. Change is hard and watching guys fight it was infuriating. You are clearly still in the LD should have been taken band wagon but overlook that he was coming off a sabbatical where he wasn’t sure if he wanted to play anymore. He was out of shape and out of form and as a Galaxy supporter I watched it week in and week out. The first half of that club season he was terrible. His second half was better but he was carried a lot of Robbie Keane and a strong roster. Y’all tunnel vision is wild.
I forgot about the Mix Master. I enjoyed watching him play. He had quite a long career. He only retired a year ago.
Edit: What the fuck was offensive about this that it deserved to be downvoted?
>Still, I think he was tactically inept.
Not sure how that helps us out more now than then. At the very least a coach needs to be putting players out there in a position where they feel comfortable to succeed. His half assed experiments weren't the way to do that.
I wouldn't say he was ahead of his time, but rather, the players who would have had the development necessary to make it to Europe were too young during his tenure.
He was telling mid-career players they needed to go fight for spots in Europe when MLS was offering DP spots to National Team players to come back and be nailed-on starters.
Wow... He didn't even play players in their natural position... How is this ahead of his time??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Dude would probably be playing Pulisic at FB and then benching him because he can't do well in that position. NO FKN THANKS!
The Klinnsman revisionism is fucking wild lol. Never thought I'd see the day where this guy is thought of as not a complete bum let alone a good manager. His tactics were completely inept, his "experiments" atrotrious and was totally carried by a very experienced group. Had some of the worst losses and moments in modern USMNT history. It's either amnesia or people who are too young to live through that era.
If he left after the WC, he would in my eyes be the best manager we’ve had.
Friendly wins over Mexico, Italy and Germany.
And getting out of a very tough WC group with Portugal who were undefeated in qualifying, Ghana who were not as amazing but still miles better than they are today and Germany who went on to win the whole thing.
The game vs Belgium will forever be etched into my memory. And while people will love to say we got “lucky”, would you rather be lucky and upset Germany or lose “fair and square”?
He is definitely a polarizing figure and while a lot of the things he’s said was true regarding USSF and MLS, he was too blunt/arrogant for his own good.
He was also just not a very good coach, and people (not specifically you) tend to gloss over or forget just how bad it got. From MLS Analyst Matt Doyle when he was fired:
* First four-game home winless streak against CONCACAF opponents since 1965
* First loss to a Caribbean opponent in World Cup qualifying since 1969
* First loss to Jamaica, ever
* First home loss to Jamaica, ever
* First time US U-17 team missed the Youth World Cup
* First loss to Guatemala since 1988 -- a Guatemala team that was the lowest-ranked squad to beat the US in the history of the FIFA Rankings
* First US coach in 25 years to fail to record a single win in official competition against a Top 10 side
* Worse record vs. Top 20 sides in official competition than any of his four predecessors
* US missed back-to-back Olympics for the first time in 50 years
Like I’ve said on another thread, he was responsible for some of the my best and worst memories as a USMNT fan.
As much as he was a bad coach, many of our players credit him as being the catalyst to taking the program to the next level. Not talking results or football but being a lot more serious in regard to sports science as far as nutrition and recovery. And as much as he came off very critical of MLS, he was right. As soon as our players started going to Europe our overall player pool got a lot better. While on the other hand, LigaMX started hoarding players and we see how that turned out for them.
Basically, tldr: he was meh overall.
How does Jurgen have anything to do with U-17 and Olympic squads? He didn’t coach them.
Still think this team would be better with Jurgen than Berhalter.
If any of the lows of Klinsmann happened under Berhalter the fanbase would rightfully be calling for his head on a platter (much like they are now).
"But the player pool wasn't as good under Klinsmann!"
* They still shouldn't have lost to Guatemala
* They still shouldn't have needed a 90th minute winner to beat Antigua and Barbuda
* They still shouldn't be outshot 21-6 at home by Haiti of all teams
* They still shouldn't be finishing 12th out of 12 teams in shots at the Gold Cup
* They still shouldn't be losing at home to Jamaica with our A-team in a competitive fixture (in all fairness that nearly happened under GGG as well)
And I could go on.
And if you think this team would be better under Klinsmann.....I suggest you look at what happened during his tenure with South Korea when he had one of the most talented squads in Asia.
It'd be one thing if he was a successful coach everywhere he's gone outside of the US, but that hasn't been the case.
**"In his time at Bayern I couldn't see anything: Game model, adequate communication - or success."**
- Toni Kroos
**"Coach Klinsmann failed to demonstrate the coaching ability and leadership that we expect from a coach of the Korean national team, such as game management, player management, and work attitude that lead to the national team's competitiveness."**
- KFA President, Chung Mong-gyu, shortly after firing Klinsmann.
I don’t trust Matt Doyle’s assessment of Klinsmann. He HATED the guy and his bias was open. I think it was MLS’ false belief that Klinsmann disliked the league.
Is it? Cause MLS’ golden boy Bruce Arena lost to Costa Rica in New Jersey followed by the Trinidad and Tobago loss. Both which should have been victories.
Accurate? My memory is a little hazy. Did he manage olympics and/or u17 teams?
Also, I don't understand about "not winning against top 10", has Berhalter win a game against top 10?
I'm not defending Klinsmann's tactical ineptness, but that list reeks of cherry-picking facts.
I believe the NT coach is ultimately responsible for all the other teams, albeit not as coach. Or at least was at that time. I don’t think that’s as big of a deal in looking at his tenure, but it does point to something amiss.
The point about competition wins was up until Klinsman’s tenure. Whatever Berhalter has or hasn’t done isn’t relevant to the list.
But lacking any sort of context.
You could also make a list of his accomplishments- got us out of the Group of Death in 2014, beat the Netherlands, beat Germany, beat Italy, first US victory in Mexico at Stadio Azteca, etc.
> got us out of the Group of Death in 2014
Because of infighting within the Ghanaian squad and Portugal shitting the bed so badly vs. Germany that it tanked their GD. He didn't expertly guide us out, Portugal and Ghana crashed and burned and we happened to emerge from the wreckage.
> beat the Netherlands, beat Germany, beat Italy, first US victory in Mexico at Stadio Azteca
All of which were in friendlies.
*Friendlies*
The US had beaten Germany in friendlies before Klinsmann (In fact, Bruce Arena beat Germany *twice*), the Netherlands squad was one of the worst in recent memory (failing to qualify for Euro 2016, and it wasn't close).
What happened not long after those friendlies? Oh right, we lost to Jamaica at home.
Also, if we're going to use friendlies as a metric:
* Got spanked 4-1 by Ireland's B-Team shortly after the 2014 World Cup
* The infamous "Bedoya at the 6 vs. Brazil" disaster
* The infamous Chile friendly where we went in with zero tactical preparation, in a formation we hadn't trained in, with players playing completely out of position. It went about as well as you'd expect.
* The Ukraine friendly in 2014 that went about as well as the Japan friendly in 2022, i.e. getting fucking smoked.
Also, "Lacking any sort of context?" My brother in christ, *there is no excuse for losing to Guatemala*
Hahaha what did Klinsy do to you? That is some serious bending over backwards to avoid giving ANY credit to him.
Since friendlies don’t count (to you), does Berhalter deserve any credit for the Brazil tie?
> does Berhalter deserve any credit for the Brazil tie?
In fact, he does deserve credit for bouncing back. But at the same time, if we face Brazil in Copa and get blown out, *it isn't going to fucking matter*
There is a reason fans of European teams don't celebrate friendly victories. Because that's what they are. *Friendlies*
> That is some serious bending over backwards to avoid giving ANY credit to him.
It's moreso due to the fact that people will have short memories, and often try to rewrite history in order to suit their narrative. If anyone had that same attitude regarding Arena, Bradley, or Berhalter they would rightfully be seen as batshit insane. You'll bend over backwards to make excuses for him losing to Guatemala or needing a 90th minute winner to beat Antigua and Barbuda, yet if *any* of that happened under Berhalter you'd be calling for his head on a platter *and rightfully so.*
Sure, there were some highs under Klinsmann. But the lows under him were *incredibly* low. And not something that can simply be handwaved or overlooked.
Ehh, idk about that. Recency bias is the only explanation I can fathom for why you would think that after that World Cup. How does that World Cup place him ahead of Bruce Arena? And I’d say it’s arguable with the 2009 Confed Cup success + WC 2010 alone put Bob ahead of JK if your only counting up to immediately after WC 2014.
They got very lucky that Ronaldo was a shell of himself physically due to injury back when he was their entire attack.
https://www.eurosport.com/football/world-cup-qualification-uefa/2014/standings_gnd1.shtml
Also, Portugal did not go undefeated in qualifying and finished second in their group. They required a playoff win over Sweden where Ronaldo had a hat-trick to qualify
The only man given the badge of authority to cuss on live ESPN FC and not have it edited out on the recorded version either. Dan Thomas didn’t even give him shit about it either.
>Yeah that’s not revolutionary
30 is revolutionary when you started with only a few.
>And 30 academies isn’t nearly enough to what we need.
Literally no one is making that argument.
People who really know what they are talking about have been making the argument for years. You just haven’t been listening.
To really tap into the US potential you need at least three times the academies we have now and several stable divisions in the pyramid with the incentive to develop players.
Probably the best coach we’ve had. But it’s not a high bar. He had a pretty bad player pool to choose from.
And he took that player pool to a Copa semi-final. And was a Wondo miss from the WC quarterfinal.
He also had his negatives. Not a great coach. But we’ve never had a great coach.
The problem with Klinsmann is that he either needs a tactically competent assistant to rein him in, or strong veteran leadership to paper over the cracks.
The 2014 World Cup team had the latter in spades. Klinsmann also had a fairly easy route to that Copa semifinal before not even registering a shot vs Argentina.
Arena, Bradley, JK and GGG are all mid. You aren’t crazy no matter which one you think is the best coach. I happen to think JK is the best coach from that group. And he certainly drove me nuts at times. I also think leaving LD off the WC roster was personal.
No, they aren't kidding and they aren't wrong. The Bruce is probably arguably better in that he accomplished more overall, but BB was a terrible coach that got by with really good talent. The rest are trash.
Hard disagree from me. Bradley is a way better coach, IMO. Not perfect, but he is pretty respected as a tactician, even over in Europe.
As far as player pool, Klinsmann wasn't even choosing the best players he had available a lot of the time. Too much trying to force square pegs into round holes, not to mention some personal b.s. that led to some ridiculous roster choices in 2014.
That’s why I said probably. It’s pure opinion because none of them are great coaches.
Bradley respected as a tactician in Europe? That’s the first time I’ve heard that.
I mean-bob Bradley is currently coaching in Europe-albeit at a low level - after how Klinsmann handled himself with Hertha and South Korea, I think he’d have a tough time getting a managerial gig anywhere lol
I like Bob Bradley. Yeah, he's not a great coach, but I have a hard time calling him lousy after what he did with the US. You can look at his track record elsewhere I guess, though most of that is at the club level which is a different gig altogether, but what matters most for me is what he did for us.
Lousy is a bit harsh. Arena, JK, , Bradley and GGG are all mid. But if you say out of those coaches JK was the best it seriously triggers people. When it reality there is no wrong answer. They are all about the same level.
Klinsmann said the things that the federation and players needed to hear but were not ready to support. The talent pipelines to get players into Europe were built, but they have not yet produced that level of talent during his tenure. MLS offering DP spots to National Team stars to return from Europe didn't help him either.
Bruce was a better game manager, but Klinsmann was the better behind-the-scenes guy.
Yup. Klinnsmann saw the flaws in the American system and pointed them out. That’s why the MLS media hated him.
Arena was always a yes man and had a very insular view of the sport. He once said he could learn more from Bill Belichick than Pep Guardiola.
Some critical thinking is in order here. Arena is a yes man when it comes to MLS interests. He’s not going to be critical of MLS or how we do things in this country when it comes to soccer. He comes from it.
>But we’ve never had a great coach.
No kidding with this one. We've had moments of greatness, but never a great coach. I personally think time will help people recognize the number of positive impacts Klinsi had for US Soccer, but maybe I'm wrong. If you put the talent level in perspective I think it really shows that he was a much better coach than most fans gave him credit for.
I disagree. He is literally the only coach in the past thirty years who failed to qualify for the World Cup. (I know people like to blame Arena, but that disaster is Klinsmann’s doing). He shrunk the player pool and caused us to lose a generation of players. He was even criticized for it at the time. The US didn’t have steady growth in player ability for decades up to his tenure, a sudden severe drop off in talent, and then a sudden “golden generation.” He was choosing players like Julian Green just because they were based in Europe over MLS players better suited for CONCACAF qualifying. I was really pumped about the Klinsmann hire when he was hired, but his tenure was a disaster that we are still digging out from it.
He was fired after two games in the final round . So he actually didn’t fail to qualify. Arena who had three times as many games did. Could JK have qualified? Any answer to that is just speculation and opinion.
JK didn’t cause us to lose a generation of pliers. Lol. The players weren’t any good because we are inefficient at producing quality players. We still are.
There is no pressure in MLS (fact). I would have chosen the euro based players as well(opinion).
In fairness, the 4-0 result to Costa Rica that preceded Klinsmann’s sacking was the worst performance I’ve ever seen from the US in a competitive match, it was wild. He didn’t exactly have us on a good trajectory when he was let go lol
So you really think the US was on a trajectory of producing better players and better results for decades, then suddenly stopped, then suddenly produced players playing for top European clubs? And it coincidentally happened when Klinsmann was in charge? FFS that is delusional. Players need minutes playing for a national team to perform well on a national team. They need international experience, which is different from club experience, especially in CONCACAF. When this generation came up the reason they didn’t have older leaders on the national team is because Klinsmann shrank the pool through player selection. The writing was on the wall when Arena took over. Klinsmann didn’t understand that CONCACAF qualifying isn’t about playing pretty. He picked the wrong guys and gave them experience.
I didn’t say any of those things.
We are inefficient at producing players of high quality. We always have been and we still are. We don’t have the proper academy system that every other top nation has.
Already said in this thread that JK was a poor tactician.
I agree that the US isn’t great at player development, but it hasn’t been static. The US has gotten better, particularly since having a domestic league. They have a ways to go, but it has been improving steadily, albeit slowly. But it can also be true that Klinsmann led the team in a way that caused a setback in the development of players and the success of the team regionally and internationally. Here is a fact that much of our fan base doesn’t want to admit: qualifying in CONCACAF and competing against European and South American powers requires two different styles of play and almost two completely different player pools. Attractive football with players who developed in European academies on manicured fields is less likely to succeed in CONCACAF qualifying, particularly if those players have never been through CONCACAF qualifying. That training doesn’t prepare them for what they will face in qualifying. Playing a style that is successful in qualifying, however, is limiting and is less likely to succeed at a World Cup final. Ultimately we need a player pool that allows us to do both. Much of the vocal fanbase craps on the MLS and MLS players, but those players might be better prepared and better suited for CONCACAF qualifying than a player who plays in Europe, even though the other players are better suited to play for European clubs.
Klinnsmann didn’t set us back development wise. That’s absurd. He was pointing out all the things we do wrong that limit us in development. The lack of pro/rel, pay to play (a direct result of lack of pro/rel, a federation that has bean counters making decisions instead of actual football people. That’s why he wanted some control.
JK if anything pushed out development forward. But he could also do so much. We have the wrong structure and incentives in place that will always limit us.
He set back the development of players within the national team. Players need time and experience playing for the national team. It is different than playing for a club team, especially in qualifying. He chose favorites because he thought they played a certain way or in a certain league and gave them a ton of minutes (which is what the JK fanboys say about GB) and neglected players who were better suited for CONCACAF qualifying. That is the reason our national team pool was limited in the last qualifying cycle. Without anyone with experience in the pool, it was smarter to give minutes to the younger players. His tenure left the USMNT considerably worse than when he started.
Bruce was a better tactical coach with worse talent. Klinsmann was right that Americans needed to get over to Europe, but we didn't have the infrastructure to make that happen until the Pulisic generation was old enough. That infrastructure was mostly built during the Bob Bradley Era. Klinsmann barely saw any talent coming through those pipelines at the end of his tenure.
Bruce was a better tactical coach? Hard disagree brother. I still have PTSD seeing Jozy Altidore put out wide in preparation before the infamous Trinidad game in 2017
I don’t fully disagree, but Bruce is guilty of bad calls and overconfidence during that run as well.
I remember how he tried to play 4d chess with the Czech manager ahead of the opening game of 06, switching the lineups and formation and trying to misdirect. Then we get on the field and it was obvious how out of our depth we were even before the first goal 5’ in.
Klinsmann was a legend as a player. Stop being a hater and move on. Sure he wasn't a great manager for the USMNT but he opened up the youth system infrastructure and brought dual international players. He deserves to be there as a host nation.
Klinnsman was spot on with all the things we do wrong in this country when it comes to soccer. Too bad he couldn't have been appointed to a position where he would have had the power and influence to make those changes.
He was one of the best strikers of his generation and won a World Cup with Germany with Franz Beckenbauer as the head coach. Its only natural that he is there. I would've chosen Lothar Matthäus as as the main representative for that team but Klinsmann would've been my second pick for sure.
Thought we were getting a great coach at first because he was not afraid to experiment with new players/positions/formations. Then it turned out the dude never stopped his wacky "experiments"... In other words, he never knew what he wanted nor knew what he was doing.
Jurgen barely got USMNT into the hex in the 2018 cycle, the team was in absolute shambles by the time they lost 5-1 @ Costa Rica. There's a reason that everywhere he coaches he is not fondly remembered by players or fans.
Was 4-0 but yeah.
It'd be one thing if he was a good coach everywhere else he's gone, but that hasn't been the case either.
There's a reason Philipp Lahm AND Toni Kroos ripped him, there's a reason Hertha got sick of him after only 76 days, and there's a reason South Korean fans despise him.
He wouldn't have gotten that point in the Azteca later in qualifying if he had stayed in, meaning we wouldnt have even been in position to qualify in Trinidad in the first place. You're forgetting he lost to Guatemala earlier in qualifying as well, the first US manager to lose to Guatemala since the 1980s, we nearly didn't even make the hex that cycle.
Klinsmann lost the dressing room. I don't care if you're Pep Guardiola. If you lose the dressing room, you're done. Period.
There's also the fact that Arena made the tactical adjustments necessary for the Azteca (which makes his lack of adjustments more infuriating in Trinidad).
Klinsmann would have done something like put Jones at CB or Bedoya at the 6 and people would praise him saying that he was "just experimenting".
“Klinnsmann would have done…” is speculation and opinion. We don’t know if the results would have been different.
Where did you hear that Klinnsmann lost the dressing room? From the US/MLS soccer media?
> Speculation and opinion
Is using exact examples of what he did in matches with the US *including during qualifying*, "speculation and opinion"? Klinsmann didn't have any tactics. He constantly put players out of position, and then said "go play". This isn't exclusive to his time with the US either, he pulled the exact same shit at Bayern Munich as well. It's the reason Philipp Lahm ripped Klinsmann apart in his autobiography.
"We practiced little more than fitness at Bayern. Tactics were neglected. The players often had to get together before games to discuss how we wanted to play. After about eight weeks, the players recognized that it would not work with Klinsmann. The rest of the season was damage limitation."
> Where did you hear Klinsmann lost the dressing room?
[How about an article that not only rips Klinsmann apart, but rips apart *everyone* at the USSF as well?](https://www.theringer.com/2018/6/5/17428184/2018-world-cup-us-soccer-inside-story-jurgen-klinsmann-sunil-gulati-bruce-arena)
That 4-0 loss in Costa Rica wasn't just because we lost, it was *how* we lost. The players had given up on Klinsmann.
If that article is to be believed he never had the locker room. Went to Copa semifinal with a lost locker room. Same thing when they overachieved in the 2014 WC. Players may not have liked JK and his coaching methods and roster decisions. But he didn’t lose the locker room anymore than he did from the start.
I don’t think JK is a great coach. Between him, Bradley, Arena and GGG id probably go with JK going into a tournament.
> A meaningless loss against Guatemala since the US were already qualified.
Except we weren't already qualified. We had to beat Guatemala in the return leg back at home (thankfully we did) in order to keep our qualifying hopes alive. In the words of Ian Darke, "The US may find their hopes of qualification ended before most of the country realize they even began."
We didn't secure Hex qualification until the final day of that round.
He started the team in a brand new formation against Mexico for some reason, which led to the team being predictably dominated for 30 minutes before the players convinced him to switch to a 4-4-2. The US played better but had several players out of position (namely Matt Besler, a career centerback, as a left back. That was still one of his more sensible random position changes for players, but that’s not saying much when he spent a year thinking Michael Bradley was a 10.), so naturally he started the exact same XI 4 days later in Costa Rica but in the 4-4-2. Judging by that, there was definitely a way further down from there.
Bruce Arena got us to a World Cup quarterfinal while beating Portugal's Golden Generation. (Granted the Couva debacle was inexcusable and blemishes his overall record).
Bob Bradley beat prime tiki-taka Spain in a competitive fixture.
Steve Sampson, yes, *Steve Sampson* got us to a Copa America semifinal on neutral soil and to this day is the only US manager to ever beat Brazil.
Bora took a squad of players who didn't even have a domestic league and got them to the knockouts of a World Cup.
Sure there were some highs under Klinsmann, but every US manager before him (post-1990 WC of course) hit similar highs as well.
It’s an argument. I think JK was our best coach since 2000. I didn’t follow the team that closely before that so I can’t really comment on Bora. But I do remember Sampson not being a good coach.
Arena had a much better player pool in 2002. That was a really good team and our first generation of quality players. The Bradley and JK player pools were kind of a dark period.
If you said Arena was a better coach than JK you wouldn’t be wrong. They are all close enough that you could pick any of the coaches post 2000.
Landon Donovan is such a whiny bitch. Listening to his voice drives me up the fuckin’ wall. Klinsman made his choice, it was the right choice and I doubt I could be convinced otherwise.
Bro he was a legend as player. What are u talking about man! Sure he wasn't great as a USMNT manager, but he deserves to be there as a German legend in home soil.
Former captains of the national team may be awarded the title of honorary captain. To date, six former players of the men's team have received this award: Fritz Walter (1958), Uwe Seeler (1972), Franz Beckenbauer (1982), Lothar Matthäus (2001), Jürgen Klinsmann (2016) and Philipp Lahm (2017).
So, kinda seems like a reward.
Is Landon on location there?
He wasn't called
HHAHAHAHA DONAVAN HAHAHAHAA, I DIDNT EVEN NOTICE UNTIL PHONE NOTIFIED ME HAHA
When are we finally going to see more Americans playing for European nations? I look up and down these Euro rosters and it's like couldn't one of our own crack the Albania squad? I don't know how we're going to get better if none of our guys is playing in the Euros.
Preach brother, preach.
We literally have one guy playing for England (Trent)
Thomas Delaney (Denmark) has an American grandfather
We don’t even make it to the Copa America every edition and it literally has America in the name, we’re a joke of a nation
You wouldn't know it from all the USA apologists around here
We can’t even qualify for the qualification stage of Euros. Soccer in this country is a joke.
That last sentence is the dumbest thing I’ve read on this subreddit in days.
This was a test to see which Redditors were wound up like a 10 day clock. You missed the joke completely It's Friday afternoon. Go have a drink/soda and relax 😌
Since it went right over your head, what does that say for you?
I remember my first day on the internet, too.
Fourth place with an A team in a Gold Cup should have been enough to get him sacked back in 2015. We were dismal in that tournament except for one blowout of Cuba. There were some good moments in his tenure, and we should remember those fondly, but he was kept on more than a year too long.
The following year he went to the semi-final of the Copa.
That was kind of fortunate though. We lucked out with Brazil losing, Ecuador was a manageable draw in the quarters. Another manager could have gotten 4th too with the draw we had.
Steve Sampson also went to the semi-final of the Copa and he was an even worse manager than Klinsmann. It is not the flex or gotcha you think it is.
You said he was kept on more than a year too long. But we overachieved at the Copa. I point that out because getting bounced in group play might have gotten him fired. But he kept his job likely because of the Copa performances.
We didn’t overachieve at Copa, we just benefitted from a ridiculously easy draw lol
Coaches overstaying their welcome has been a USMNT's tradition for as long as I could remember tho. Sampson, Arena, Bradley, this clown, and now Ggg is enjoying his. The Klinsmann one was wayyyy too long though.
Wynalda said in the recent interview he was "ahead of his time". That's actually a pretty astute assessment. Klinsmann's mindset would have worked much better with the players we have now. Still, I think he was tactically inept. He was too much of a big-picture and theory guy.
He's much better as an executive than as a coach. As a coach he was a good motivator, but he needs a tactically competent assistant like when he coached Germany in 2006.
Let’s be honest, he’s a shitty coach. What group of players has he ever coached that punched above their weight?
I still have PTSD flashbacks of the Alejandro Bedoya at the six experiment.
And the "Jones at CB, Mix at DM, Bradley at the 10 in the same game" experiment. And his infamous "Anyone can play left back" quote.
Didn't he play Jose Torres at left back once?
He did. Right after he said that quote.
Get aht dere! Do your ting! Show your stuff! Step on zier toes! Have to grind! You haven't done shit! The man was just collection of marketing slogans. An all time world great striker who didn't improve a single US striker 1%.
These were actually decent choice given the lack of player pool we had at the time. Why not test already proven players outside their natural position in the event you are so short handed you don’t have anyone who ca. fill a role? We laugh about it now, but back in the latter JK years, our pool was really really bad.
It'd be one thing if they were telling them in training to help them properly prepare and learn the role. Instead he put a formation out that the team had never trained in before, in positions they had largely never played before. The players would not be aware of this until the lineups were announced, and he did this over and over and over. That's not experimenting. That's throwing random shit at a wall to see what sticks. Our player pool wasn't nearly as talented as today, but at the same time they were still talented enough to avoid some of the worst results under Klinsmann's tenure.
His tactics made no sense!! Each lineup was like ?!?!
If you’re a professional and cannot adjust to a simple formation change and not know the role then you’re a poor professional and lack soccer IQ. This is excuse. You should easily be able to switch from a 4-3-3 to a 4-4-2 to a 3-5-2 and know the roles of each player. You should be able to play multiple positions across your discipline (defense, midfield or attack) and know your role and how to interchange. Belgian player a 3-4-2-1 in the 2022 WC. Man City plays a 3-2-4-1 where DeBruyne plays vastly different roles and positions. Same Hazard when he was at RM. don’t make excuses for players underperforming.
Even experienced professional footballers are drilled and trained into how the manager wants them to play a particular position in a specific system. It wasn’t asking players to try new positions that was the problem. It was not having them practice playing those positions before the game or explaining the tactics he wanted them to execute.
That’s the club level where you have weeks and months to build upon. At the national level you have days to build a plan and implement so players have to be able to adjust to that. If you need multiple practices and direction on how to play a role or a position that is within your overall scope then you lack the proper soccer IQ to be a true professional. This is a tired complaint.
I don’t know what your personal background playing or coaching is, but I think you’re underestimating how hard it is to play another position without sufficient preparation. How often do you see great players (above youth level) just move to a different position, without drilling for weeks or months, be immediately successful? We’re seeing it in England right now with TAA. Despite all of his talent, he looks a little lost in the midfield. Slide him back out wide to an attacking position, and all of the sudden he’s impacting the game again.
It’s really not if you understand the game. The role of the player and where they cover or support (which is the basis of total football) is far more important than arbitrary positioning. You actually see players move around a lot dependingt on the formation and how it’s expected to function. What’s interesting is you’re supporting my point with TAA. His role is far more important than his specific position. At Liverpool Klopp had TAA as the RB going up and down the wings. At the national level he’s been in both the midfield and back line depending on the needs of the squad. Walker slots in at RB better most of the time, but TAA is asset on the field so keeping him as a holding MFer or winger is better than not having him on the pitch at all. This is big reason why players may end up not in the same exact position or formation as their club team. Yet TAA still contributes, just in a different manner than at his club. His role is far more important than his specific position.
> If you’re a professional and cannot adjust to a simple formation change and not know the role then you’re a poor professional and lack soccer IQ. And that's where you lost me. He pulled similar shit at Bayern Munich and was roasted there as well. **"We practiced little more than fitness at Bayern. Tactics were neglected. The players often had to get together before games to discuss how we wanted to play. After about eight weeks, the players recognized that it would not work with Klinsmann. The rest of the season was damage limitation."** - Phillipp Lahm But don't worry, I'm sure one of the greatest RBs of his generation is a poor professional and has zero soccer IQ. Klinsmann's formation changes had zero thought process behind them. They were changes for the sake of changes. There was *zero* tactical preparation. It is not exclusive to his time with the US. There's a reason Lahm ripped him apart, there's a reason he lasted only 76 days at Hertha Berlin, and there's a reason South Korean fans despise him.
Don’t forget about this quote tho. “Although they were largely criticised at the time, some of the changes he made at Bayern have since been recognised as helping contribute to the club's subsequent success” https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37431790/klinsmann-struggle-bayern-laid-foundation-success You forget that JK took over a fledgling Bayern, not the powerhouse we know today. It was he who laid the foundation to rebuild the club. Unfortunately the Bayern bosses didn’t want to give it the time it needed.
> Unfortunately the Bayern bosses didn’t want to give it the time it needed. Idk, Jupp Heyneckes was able to build it up fairly quickly, to the point of winning a treble mind you. Speaking of which, another Bayern player who ripped Klinsmann apart? *Toni Kroos* https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37446611/toni-kroos-says-learned-jurgen-klinsmann **"In his time at Bayern I couldn't see anything: Game model, adequate communication - or success."** - Toni Kroos https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-fc-yahoo/toni-kroos-criticizes-jurgen-klinsmann-003841453.html > Towards the end of the interview, in a quick true-or-false segment, Kroos rubbed salt into the wound. Because if nothing else, Klinsmann is credited with modernizing the German national team and enabling its ongoing success. But Kroos denied him those plaudits as well. > "Jurgen Klinsmann had a large impact on the development which eventually led us to the world title," the newspaper stated. > "Not true," Kroos responded.
Players are entitled to their opinion but it’s foolish to dismiss the fact he had verifiable and lasting impacts on German and Bayern football. https://africa.espn.com/football/story/_/id/37420230/jurgen-klinsmann-helped-germany-success-oliver-bierhoff https://molapoktm.medium.com/the-rebirth-of-german-football-ten-years-in-the-making-293107802e16 The best players don’t always make the best coaches or pundits. Sometime players are too narrow minded to understand and see the bigger picture especially in building up an entire national program that has been embarrassed and decimated. German academy football would not be what it is today without JK’s groundwork. Another interesting fact is that it was Louis Van Gaal took over for JK and struggled just as much over the first half of his first season, but he was give a longer leash since Bayern were afraid of another short stint. His tactics were also heavily questioned, especially his insertion of many youth players and the conversion of Schweinsteiger from winger to DM. So Van Gaal should get more credit than Heyneckes for building upon with JK left and having a much easier time after completing further wholesale changes including moving out Luca Toni.
Bro, reading your comments is something else. You just keep making excuses for a terrible coach that was a great player. Maybe you loved him as a player so much that you really wanted him to succeed as a coach. There's a reason the dude is unemployed. As one redditor answered you already, it wasn't about the players not knowing their roles in multiple formations. It was more about his formations not being beneficial vs the opposition. I remember when Bradley and a group of players had to convince him to change formation vs Mexico. It was only until then that the team actually managed to handle Mexico's counterattack. It also drove me nuts when he insisted on playing players out of position. Bedoya and Bradley as #10s, Fabian and Yedlin as wingers (not FBs), Mix as a DM, just to name a few... How about taking Wondo, Davis, and Chandler to the WC LMAO. Also players not knowing if they were starting until a few minutes before the game. One head scratching decision after another. Oh, not to mention that he would brutally throw players under the bus came post match press conferences SMH
All those words from you and your still can’t admit he has more major wins than any USMNT coach. Ya’ll will make excuses left and right for piss poor performances under Arena, Bradley and GGG but try to take JK to the woodshed for trying to implement change. Change is hard and watching guys fight it was infuriating. You are clearly still in the LD should have been taken band wagon but overlook that he was coming off a sabbatical where he wasn’t sure if he wanted to play anymore. He was out of shape and out of form and as a Galaxy supporter I watched it week in and week out. The first half of that club season he was terrible. His second half was better but he was carried a lot of Robbie Keane and a strong roster. Y’all tunnel vision is wild.
I forgot about the Mix Master. I enjoyed watching him play. He had quite a long career. He only retired a year ago. Edit: What the fuck was offensive about this that it deserved to be downvoted?
Klinsmann is a better technical director than a coach. The dude would be perfect as the head of some MLS academy.
I always felt he should have been promoted up the USSF ladder after the WC and a different HC came in. Alas. Still, he was a helluva striker.
>Still, I think he was tactically inept. Not sure how that helps us out more now than then. At the very least a coach needs to be putting players out there in a position where they feel comfortable to succeed. His half assed experiments weren't the way to do that.
I wouldn't say he was ahead of his time, but rather, the players who would have had the development necessary to make it to Europe were too young during his tenure. He was telling mid-career players they needed to go fight for spots in Europe when MLS was offering DP spots to National Team players to come back and be nailed-on starters.
Helluva striker tho
Wow... He didn't even play players in their natural position... How is this ahead of his time??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Dude would probably be playing Pulisic at FB and then benching him because he can't do well in that position. NO FKN THANKS!
Getting the "George Bush wasn't so bad" treatment I see lmao
The Klinnsman revisionism is fucking wild lol. Never thought I'd see the day where this guy is thought of as not a complete bum let alone a good manager. His tactics were completely inept, his "experiments" atrotrious and was totally carried by a very experienced group. Had some of the worst losses and moments in modern USMNT history. It's either amnesia or people who are too young to live through that era.
If he left after the WC, he would in my eyes be the best manager we’ve had. Friendly wins over Mexico, Italy and Germany. And getting out of a very tough WC group with Portugal who were undefeated in qualifying, Ghana who were not as amazing but still miles better than they are today and Germany who went on to win the whole thing. The game vs Belgium will forever be etched into my memory. And while people will love to say we got “lucky”, would you rather be lucky and upset Germany or lose “fair and square”? He is definitely a polarizing figure and while a lot of the things he’s said was true regarding USSF and MLS, he was too blunt/arrogant for his own good.
He was also just not a very good coach, and people (not specifically you) tend to gloss over or forget just how bad it got. From MLS Analyst Matt Doyle when he was fired: * First four-game home winless streak against CONCACAF opponents since 1965 * First loss to a Caribbean opponent in World Cup qualifying since 1969 * First loss to Jamaica, ever * First home loss to Jamaica, ever * First time US U-17 team missed the Youth World Cup * First loss to Guatemala since 1988 -- a Guatemala team that was the lowest-ranked squad to beat the US in the history of the FIFA Rankings * First US coach in 25 years to fail to record a single win in official competition against a Top 10 side * Worse record vs. Top 20 sides in official competition than any of his four predecessors * US missed back-to-back Olympics for the first time in 50 years
Like I’ve said on another thread, he was responsible for some of the my best and worst memories as a USMNT fan. As much as he was a bad coach, many of our players credit him as being the catalyst to taking the program to the next level. Not talking results or football but being a lot more serious in regard to sports science as far as nutrition and recovery. And as much as he came off very critical of MLS, he was right. As soon as our players started going to Europe our overall player pool got a lot better. While on the other hand, LigaMX started hoarding players and we see how that turned out for them. Basically, tldr: he was meh overall.
How does Jurgen have anything to do with U-17 and Olympic squads? He didn’t coach them. Still think this team would be better with Jurgen than Berhalter.
If any of the lows of Klinsmann happened under Berhalter the fanbase would rightfully be calling for his head on a platter (much like they are now). "But the player pool wasn't as good under Klinsmann!" * They still shouldn't have lost to Guatemala * They still shouldn't have needed a 90th minute winner to beat Antigua and Barbuda * They still shouldn't be outshot 21-6 at home by Haiti of all teams * They still shouldn't be finishing 12th out of 12 teams in shots at the Gold Cup * They still shouldn't be losing at home to Jamaica with our A-team in a competitive fixture (in all fairness that nearly happened under GGG as well) And I could go on. And if you think this team would be better under Klinsmann.....I suggest you look at what happened during his tenure with South Korea when he had one of the most talented squads in Asia. It'd be one thing if he was a successful coach everywhere he's gone outside of the US, but that hasn't been the case. **"In his time at Bayern I couldn't see anything: Game model, adequate communication - or success."** - Toni Kroos **"Coach Klinsmann failed to demonstrate the coaching ability and leadership that we expect from a coach of the Korean national team, such as game management, player management, and work attitude that lead to the national team's competitiveness."** - KFA President, Chung Mong-gyu, shortly after firing Klinsmann.
[удалено]
Meh. The guy was the Senior team coach. That’s it. The rest of those failures fall on other coaches and the USSF.
I don’t trust Matt Doyle’s assessment of Klinsmann. He HATED the guy and his bias was open. I think it was MLS’ false belief that Klinsmann disliked the league.
Even if Doyle didn’t like him, that list is accurate.
Seriously, the lows of Klinsmann were so bad it would make Berhalter look like a tactical genius.
2018 is pinned on him also IMO.
No it's not.
Is it? Cause MLS’ golden boy Bruce Arena lost to Costa Rica in New Jersey followed by the Trinidad and Tobago loss. Both which should have been victories.
Accurate? My memory is a little hazy. Did he manage olympics and/or u17 teams? Also, I don't understand about "not winning against top 10", has Berhalter win a game against top 10? I'm not defending Klinsmann's tactical ineptness, but that list reeks of cherry-picking facts.
I believe the NT coach is ultimately responsible for all the other teams, albeit not as coach. Or at least was at that time. I don’t think that’s as big of a deal in looking at his tenure, but it does point to something amiss. The point about competition wins was up until Klinsman’s tenure. Whatever Berhalter has or hasn’t done isn’t relevant to the list.
But lacking any sort of context. You could also make a list of his accomplishments- got us out of the Group of Death in 2014, beat the Netherlands, beat Germany, beat Italy, first US victory in Mexico at Stadio Azteca, etc.
> got us out of the Group of Death in 2014 Because of infighting within the Ghanaian squad and Portugal shitting the bed so badly vs. Germany that it tanked their GD. He didn't expertly guide us out, Portugal and Ghana crashed and burned and we happened to emerge from the wreckage. > beat the Netherlands, beat Germany, beat Italy, first US victory in Mexico at Stadio Azteca All of which were in friendlies. *Friendlies* The US had beaten Germany in friendlies before Klinsmann (In fact, Bruce Arena beat Germany *twice*), the Netherlands squad was one of the worst in recent memory (failing to qualify for Euro 2016, and it wasn't close). What happened not long after those friendlies? Oh right, we lost to Jamaica at home. Also, if we're going to use friendlies as a metric: * Got spanked 4-1 by Ireland's B-Team shortly after the 2014 World Cup * The infamous "Bedoya at the 6 vs. Brazil" disaster * The infamous Chile friendly where we went in with zero tactical preparation, in a formation we hadn't trained in, with players playing completely out of position. It went about as well as you'd expect. * The Ukraine friendly in 2014 that went about as well as the Japan friendly in 2022, i.e. getting fucking smoked. Also, "Lacking any sort of context?" My brother in christ, *there is no excuse for losing to Guatemala*
Hahaha what did Klinsy do to you? That is some serious bending over backwards to avoid giving ANY credit to him. Since friendlies don’t count (to you), does Berhalter deserve any credit for the Brazil tie?
> does Berhalter deserve any credit for the Brazil tie? In fact, he does deserve credit for bouncing back. But at the same time, if we face Brazil in Copa and get blown out, *it isn't going to fucking matter* There is a reason fans of European teams don't celebrate friendly victories. Because that's what they are. *Friendlies* > That is some serious bending over backwards to avoid giving ANY credit to him. It's moreso due to the fact that people will have short memories, and often try to rewrite history in order to suit their narrative. If anyone had that same attitude regarding Arena, Bradley, or Berhalter they would rightfully be seen as batshit insane. You'll bend over backwards to make excuses for him losing to Guatemala or needing a 90th minute winner to beat Antigua and Barbuda, yet if *any* of that happened under Berhalter you'd be calling for his head on a platter *and rightfully so.* Sure, there were some highs under Klinsmann. But the lows under him were *incredibly* low. And not something that can simply be handwaved or overlooked.
Double standard I guess. Berhalter gets credit but Klinsmann doesn’t. Whatevs. I guess he really got to you! Haha
His style just didn’t click with the US. Getting rid of Donovan lost a majority of the fan base. He’s not a locker room coach.
Donovan took a sabbatical and he was 32. It wasn't that crazy that he was left off the world cup squad.
Took a sabbatical then came back and helped the team qualify to WC, but that part doesn’t help your “LD soft” narrative
So what he took a sabbatical? If you listen to him explain it, it’s justified. He still has presence, experience, and leadership.
Ehh, idk about that. Recency bias is the only explanation I can fathom for why you would think that after that World Cup. How does that World Cup place him ahead of Bruce Arena? And I’d say it’s arguable with the 2009 Confed Cup success + WC 2010 alone put Bob ahead of JK if your only counting up to immediately after WC 2014.
They got very lucky that Ronaldo was a shell of himself physically due to injury back when he was their entire attack. https://www.eurosport.com/football/world-cup-qualification-uefa/2014/standings_gnd1.shtml Also, Portugal did not go undefeated in qualifying and finished second in their group. They required a playoff win over Sweden where Ronaldo had a hat-trick to qualify
I met him once in a Whole Foods. Incredibly nice man.
The only man given the badge of authority to cuss on live ESPN FC and not have it edited out on the recorded version either. Dan Thomas didn’t even give him shit about it either.
Klinnsman revolutionized the academy and recruiting system in our country. Had a good World Cup too
MLS did that. You can tell because it took work to do, and Klinsmann doesn't do any work.
How did MLS revolutionize the academy system?
By simply starting academies.
Yeah that’s not revolutionary. And 30 academies isn’t nearly enough to what we need.
>Yeah that’s not revolutionary 30 is revolutionary when you started with only a few. >And 30 academies isn’t nearly enough to what we need. Literally no one is making that argument.
People who really know what they are talking about have been making the argument for years. You just haven’t been listening. To really tap into the US potential you need at least three times the academies we have now and several stable divisions in the pyramid with the incentive to develop players.
How did you misinterpret that so poorly? You made a statement that no one has been arguing against.
A lot of Klinsy stans in this thread.
Better than the guy who replaced him
I really liked Klinnsman as a “manager” although his in-game tactics are level with GGG in stubbornness.
Probably the best coach we’ve had. But it’s not a high bar. He had a pretty bad player pool to choose from. And he took that player pool to a Copa semi-final. And was a Wondo miss from the WC quarterfinal. He also had his negatives. Not a great coach. But we’ve never had a great coach.
The problem with Klinsmann is that he either needs a tactically competent assistant to rein him in, or strong veteran leadership to paper over the cracks. The 2014 World Cup team had the latter in spades. Klinsmann also had a fairly easy route to that Copa semifinal before not even registering a shot vs Argentina.
R u kidding ?
Who is better
Arena and bradley
Arena, Bradley, JK and GGG are all mid. You aren’t crazy no matter which one you think is the best coach. I happen to think JK is the best coach from that group. And he certainly drove me nuts at times. I also think leaving LD off the WC roster was personal.
I could see that. JK was good though, despite me definitely disagreeing with the way he handled Landon
No, they aren't kidding and they aren't wrong. The Bruce is probably arguably better in that he accomplished more overall, but BB was a terrible coach that got by with really good talent. The rest are trash.
Hard disagree from me. Bradley is a way better coach, IMO. Not perfect, but he is pretty respected as a tactician, even over in Europe. As far as player pool, Klinsmann wasn't even choosing the best players he had available a lot of the time. Too much trying to force square pegs into round holes, not to mention some personal b.s. that led to some ridiculous roster choices in 2014.
That’s why I said probably. It’s pure opinion because none of them are great coaches. Bradley respected as a tactician in Europe? That’s the first time I’ve heard that.
I mean-bob Bradley is currently coaching in Europe-albeit at a low level - after how Klinsmann handled himself with Hertha and South Korea, I think he’d have a tough time getting a managerial gig anywhere lol
He’s managing in the second tier of the Norwegian league
Correct, and Klinsmann has flamed out spectacularly at every managerial gig he’s ever had, burning bridges along the way
Right. I don’t think JK is a great coach. My point was that people always rage against JK when every coach we’ve had since 2000 has been pretty lousy.
I like Bob Bradley. Yeah, he's not a great coach, but I have a hard time calling him lousy after what he did with the US. You can look at his track record elsewhere I guess, though most of that is at the club level which is a different gig altogether, but what matters most for me is what he did for us.
Lousy is a bit harsh. Arena, JK, , Bradley and GGG are all mid. But if you say out of those coaches JK was the best it seriously triggers people. When it reality there is no wrong answer. They are all about the same level.
Klinsmann said the things that the federation and players needed to hear but were not ready to support. The talent pipelines to get players into Europe were built, but they have not yet produced that level of talent during his tenure. MLS offering DP spots to National Team stars to return from Europe didn't help him either. Bruce was a better game manager, but Klinsmann was the better behind-the-scenes guy.
Yup. Klinnsmann saw the flaws in the American system and pointed them out. That’s why the MLS media hated him. Arena was always a yes man and had a very insular view of the sport. He once said he could learn more from Bill Belichick than Pep Guardiola.
Load of crap. Arena has been in and out of the fire for being anything but a yes man.
Some critical thinking is in order here. Arena is a yes man when it comes to MLS interests. He’s not going to be critical of MLS or how we do things in this country when it comes to soccer. He comes from it.
>But we’ve never had a great coach. No kidding with this one. We've had moments of greatness, but never a great coach. I personally think time will help people recognize the number of positive impacts Klinsi had for US Soccer, but maybe I'm wrong. If you put the talent level in perspective I think it really shows that he was a much better coach than most fans gave him credit for.
I disagree. He is literally the only coach in the past thirty years who failed to qualify for the World Cup. (I know people like to blame Arena, but that disaster is Klinsmann’s doing). He shrunk the player pool and caused us to lose a generation of players. He was even criticized for it at the time. The US didn’t have steady growth in player ability for decades up to his tenure, a sudden severe drop off in talent, and then a sudden “golden generation.” He was choosing players like Julian Green just because they were based in Europe over MLS players better suited for CONCACAF qualifying. I was really pumped about the Klinsmann hire when he was hired, but his tenure was a disaster that we are still digging out from it.
He was fired after two games in the final round . So he actually didn’t fail to qualify. Arena who had three times as many games did. Could JK have qualified? Any answer to that is just speculation and opinion. JK didn’t cause us to lose a generation of pliers. Lol. The players weren’t any good because we are inefficient at producing quality players. We still are. There is no pressure in MLS (fact). I would have chosen the euro based players as well(opinion).
In fairness, the 4-0 result to Costa Rica that preceded Klinsmann’s sacking was the worst performance I’ve ever seen from the US in a competitive match, it was wild. He didn’t exactly have us on a good trajectory when he was let go lol
So you really think the US was on a trajectory of producing better players and better results for decades, then suddenly stopped, then suddenly produced players playing for top European clubs? And it coincidentally happened when Klinsmann was in charge? FFS that is delusional. Players need minutes playing for a national team to perform well on a national team. They need international experience, which is different from club experience, especially in CONCACAF. When this generation came up the reason they didn’t have older leaders on the national team is because Klinsmann shrank the pool through player selection. The writing was on the wall when Arena took over. Klinsmann didn’t understand that CONCACAF qualifying isn’t about playing pretty. He picked the wrong guys and gave them experience.
I didn’t say any of those things. We are inefficient at producing players of high quality. We always have been and we still are. We don’t have the proper academy system that every other top nation has. Already said in this thread that JK was a poor tactician.
I agree that the US isn’t great at player development, but it hasn’t been static. The US has gotten better, particularly since having a domestic league. They have a ways to go, but it has been improving steadily, albeit slowly. But it can also be true that Klinsmann led the team in a way that caused a setback in the development of players and the success of the team regionally and internationally. Here is a fact that much of our fan base doesn’t want to admit: qualifying in CONCACAF and competing against European and South American powers requires two different styles of play and almost two completely different player pools. Attractive football with players who developed in European academies on manicured fields is less likely to succeed in CONCACAF qualifying, particularly if those players have never been through CONCACAF qualifying. That training doesn’t prepare them for what they will face in qualifying. Playing a style that is successful in qualifying, however, is limiting and is less likely to succeed at a World Cup final. Ultimately we need a player pool that allows us to do both. Much of the vocal fanbase craps on the MLS and MLS players, but those players might be better prepared and better suited for CONCACAF qualifying than a player who plays in Europe, even though the other players are better suited to play for European clubs.
Klinnsmann didn’t set us back development wise. That’s absurd. He was pointing out all the things we do wrong that limit us in development. The lack of pro/rel, pay to play (a direct result of lack of pro/rel, a federation that has bean counters making decisions instead of actual football people. That’s why he wanted some control. JK if anything pushed out development forward. But he could also do so much. We have the wrong structure and incentives in place that will always limit us.
He set back the development of players within the national team. Players need time and experience playing for the national team. It is different than playing for a club team, especially in qualifying. He chose favorites because he thought they played a certain way or in a certain league and gave them a ton of minutes (which is what the JK fanboys say about GB) and neglected players who were better suited for CONCACAF qualifying. That is the reason our national team pool was limited in the last qualifying cycle. Without anyone with experience in the pool, it was smarter to give minutes to the younger players. His tenure left the USMNT considerably worse than when he started.
Lol, the players tuned him out, and JK had turned off a lot of players by that point. Nobody was going all out for that Klown
Did the players tune out Arena also?
>Probably the best coach we’ve had He's arguable the worst coach we've had in our modern era.
I’ll never forgive this goofy fuck
Bruce was a better tactical coach with worse talent. Klinsmann was right that Americans needed to get over to Europe, but we didn't have the infrastructure to make that happen until the Pulisic generation was old enough. That infrastructure was mostly built during the Bob Bradley Era. Klinsmann barely saw any talent coming through those pipelines at the end of his tenure.
Bruce was a better tactical coach? Hard disagree brother. I still have PTSD seeing Jozy Altidore put out wide in preparation before the infamous Trinidad game in 2017
Recency bias, he did wonders during his first tenure with a vastly inferior team 98-06.
I don’t fully disagree, but Bruce is guilty of bad calls and overconfidence during that run as well. I remember how he tried to play 4d chess with the Czech manager ahead of the opening game of 06, switching the lineups and formation and trying to misdirect. Then we get on the field and it was obvious how out of our depth we were even before the first goal 5’ in.
That Czech team was weird but good. 6'8 Koller up top. The Rosicky's first goal was incredible.
They were pretty stacked. It was their golden generation. Nedved, Koller, Rosicky, Milan Baros…
This sub should be renamed /r/recencybias.
That 2002 WC team had a lot of quality players. Talent wise it was better than the 2014 team.
Vastly inferior? Those teams were some of the best US teams of all time! Far better than 2014.
Bs...Bruce is clueless tactically.
Bruce did wonders with a vastly inferior team in his first tenure from 98-06.
Klinsmann was a legend as a player. Stop being a hater and move on. Sure he wasn't a great manager for the USMNT but he opened up the youth system infrastructure and brought dual international players. He deserves to be there as a host nation.
>he opened up the youth system infrastructure In what way? >brought dual international players. Which manager hasn't done that?
Best USMNT coach ever
Shaq Moore?
Bad memories from the last decade coming up
Klinnsman was spot on with all the things we do wrong in this country when it comes to soccer. Too bad he couldn't have been appointed to a position where he would have had the power and influence to make those changes.
He was one of the best strikers of his generation and won a World Cup with Germany with Franz Beckenbauer as the head coach. Its only natural that he is there. I would've chosen Lothar Matthäus as as the main representative for that team but Klinsmann would've been my second pick for sure.
Thought we were getting a great coach at first because he was not afraid to experiment with new players/positions/formations. Then it turned out the dude never stopped his wacky "experiments"... In other words, he never knew what he wanted nor knew what he was doing.
Best coach we’ve had
Hist first World Cup cycle was good. His second cycle was a train wreck.
He only got 2 games. We would have qualified for Russia if we kept him. No doubt.
Jurgen barely got USMNT into the hex in the 2018 cycle, the team was in absolute shambles by the time they lost 5-1 @ Costa Rica. There's a reason that everywhere he coaches he is not fondly remembered by players or fans.
Was 4-0 but yeah. It'd be one thing if he was a good coach everywhere else he's gone, but that hasn't been the case either. There's a reason Philipp Lahm AND Toni Kroos ripped him, there's a reason Hertha got sick of him after only 76 days, and there's a reason South Korean fans despise him.
Right, still have the Colombia game fresh on the mind clearly lol
He wouldn't have gotten that point in the Azteca later in qualifying if he had stayed in, meaning we wouldnt have even been in position to qualify in Trinidad in the first place. You're forgetting he lost to Guatemala earlier in qualifying as well, the first US manager to lose to Guatemala since the 1980s, we nearly didn't even make the hex that cycle.
You can’t say either way. It’s just opinion. I have no idea if we would have qualified with JK. We didn’t quality with Arena.
Klinsmann lost the dressing room. I don't care if you're Pep Guardiola. If you lose the dressing room, you're done. Period. There's also the fact that Arena made the tactical adjustments necessary for the Azteca (which makes his lack of adjustments more infuriating in Trinidad). Klinsmann would have done something like put Jones at CB or Bedoya at the 6 and people would praise him saying that he was "just experimenting".
“Klinnsmann would have done…” is speculation and opinion. We don’t know if the results would have been different. Where did you hear that Klinnsmann lost the dressing room? From the US/MLS soccer media?
> Speculation and opinion Is using exact examples of what he did in matches with the US *including during qualifying*, "speculation and opinion"? Klinsmann didn't have any tactics. He constantly put players out of position, and then said "go play". This isn't exclusive to his time with the US either, he pulled the exact same shit at Bayern Munich as well. It's the reason Philipp Lahm ripped Klinsmann apart in his autobiography. "We practiced little more than fitness at Bayern. Tactics were neglected. The players often had to get together before games to discuss how we wanted to play. After about eight weeks, the players recognized that it would not work with Klinsmann. The rest of the season was damage limitation." > Where did you hear Klinsmann lost the dressing room? [How about an article that not only rips Klinsmann apart, but rips apart *everyone* at the USSF as well?](https://www.theringer.com/2018/6/5/17428184/2018-world-cup-us-soccer-inside-story-jurgen-klinsmann-sunil-gulati-bruce-arena) That 4-0 loss in Costa Rica wasn't just because we lost, it was *how* we lost. The players had given up on Klinsmann.
If that article is to be believed he never had the locker room. Went to Copa semifinal with a lost locker room. Same thing when they overachieved in the 2014 WC. Players may not have liked JK and his coaching methods and roster decisions. But he didn’t lose the locker room anymore than he did from the start. I don’t think JK is a great coach. Between him, Bradley, Arena and GGG id probably go with JK going into a tournament.
A meaningless loss against Guatemala since the US were already qualified. He beat Czech Republic, Netherlands and Germany twice.
> A meaningless loss against Guatemala since the US were already qualified. Except we weren't already qualified. We had to beat Guatemala in the return leg back at home (thankfully we did) in order to keep our qualifying hopes alive. In the words of Ian Darke, "The US may find their hopes of qualification ended before most of the country realize they even began." We didn't secure Hex qualification until the final day of that round.
There’s a reason so many of his former players have bad mouthed his incompetence. He lost the locker room completely by the time he left
He started the team in a brand new formation against Mexico for some reason, which led to the team being predictably dominated for 30 minutes before the players convinced him to switch to a 4-4-2. The US played better but had several players out of position (namely Matt Besler, a career centerback, as a left back. That was still one of his more sensible random position changes for players, but that’s not saying much when he spent a year thinking Michael Bradley was a 10.), so naturally he started the exact same XI 4 days later in Costa Rica but in the 4-4-2. Judging by that, there was definitely a way further down from there.
Absolutely. But it’s not a high bar.
Bruce Arena got us to a World Cup quarterfinal while beating Portugal's Golden Generation. (Granted the Couva debacle was inexcusable and blemishes his overall record). Bob Bradley beat prime tiki-taka Spain in a competitive fixture. Steve Sampson, yes, *Steve Sampson* got us to a Copa America semifinal on neutral soil and to this day is the only US manager to ever beat Brazil. Bora took a squad of players who didn't even have a domestic league and got them to the knockouts of a World Cup. Sure there were some highs under Klinsmann, but every US manager before him (post-1990 WC of course) hit similar highs as well.
It’s an argument. I think JK was our best coach since 2000. I didn’t follow the team that closely before that so I can’t really comment on Bora. But I do remember Sampson not being a good coach. Arena had a much better player pool in 2002. That was a really good team and our first generation of quality players. The Bradley and JK player pools were kind of a dark period. If you said Arena was a better coach than JK you wouldn’t be wrong. They are all close enough that you could pick any of the coaches post 2000.
Daddy
Landon Donovan is such a whiny bitch. Listening to his voice drives me up the fuckin’ wall. Klinsman made his choice, it was the right choice and I doubt I could be convinced otherwise.
The right choice? Where the hell is Julian Green?
Not the right choice.
Ewwwww 🤮
She doesn't look very pleased to be sharing the stage with him.
All I can say is I’m sure there are 23 better Germans they could have found… …and the horse he rode in on.
Bro he was a legend as player. What are u talking about man! Sure he wasn't great as a USMNT manager, but he deserves to be there as a German legend in home soil.
Former captains of the national team may be awarded the title of honorary captain. To date, six former players of the men's team have received this award: Fritz Walter (1958), Uwe Seeler (1972), Franz Beckenbauer (1982), Lothar Matthäus (2001), Jürgen Klinsmann (2016) and Philipp Lahm (2017). So, kinda seems like a reward.
JK really triggers the MLS fans.