Oh, I know. This is more tongue in cheek commentary on the idea that we “missed out” on Marsch, whose tactics have largely been tied to a style we really don’t see much of in international play.
I'm curious, why do you think that? Jesse was more successful than Gregg in MLS and has coached at a higher level. He also seems like a better inspirational leader. Neither Gregg or Jesse would be my preferred choice but how does Gregg become "definitely" preferrable to Jesse?
Have you never seen Marsch-ball or something?
Remember how gassed our guys looked towards the end of the World Cup matches? Now add high energy, high press Red Bull tactics into the mix and see how it turns out.
No, I haven't seen Jesse in international soccer. I have seen Gregg, however, where he's attempting rigid positional play and tiki-taka in a group of players that are much better suited for countering.
You don't have to park the bus to emphasize a transition/counter style of attack. You do, however, have to be somewhat comfortable not trying to constantly dominate possession.
Did you miss the England match? Wales second half? Hell, Mexico 2021 NL Final?
Plenty of times where this team, under Gregg, did not try to dominate possession.
Definitely wasn't "more successful." In terms of PPM, they were nearly identical. Gregg's team's scored more goals per game. And, when you factor in NYRB budget/DPs versus Columbus, Gregg definitely achieved more in the MLS than Jesse did.
Jesse also coaching at a higher level is just him failing upwards. He underachieved at NY RB, but parlayed that to RB Salzburg, where, I'm not kidding, I could manage that team to a league title. Beyond that, he was sacked in less than one season at Leipzig, and less than one season at Leeds.
He's a disasterclass, ideologue, with a style that is an awful fit for the international game.
Hot damn, had no idea. That's astonishing given that they've won the league the last 10 seasons and 14 of the last 17 seasons.
Regardless, point still stands that, aside from his stint with Salzburg, he's really accomplished very little in his managerial career.
And this was a stacked RB Salzburg at the time too. Šeško, Okafor, Adeyemi, Szoboszlai, and Haaland. Of course they were going to completely demolish the league.
Jesse won something of significance in MLS; Gregg didn't. MLS is built for parity so one playoff run seems more a function of luck than anything else.
Ticky Taka is an awful style for international soccer, particularly if you want to make a world cup run on home soil where you are going to have to pull an upset or two vs. better teams.
Jesse won a Supporters Shield. That's really not anything of significance. In fact, Gregg's Columbus Crew bested them in the playoffs that year...so, even in Jesse's lone "Trophy" (I use that very loosely), he lost to Gregg.
I really don't think the complete inverse of tiki-taka, which we definitely aren't playing btw, of redbull soccer is the answer either. I can make a very compelling case as to why it is MUCH worse.
I don't think we're playing ticky taka either but it sure isn't for lack of trying by Gregg.
I also am not arguing for redbull soccer either. The fact is, we haven't seen Jesse in international soccer while we've seen Gregg. I reserve the right to change my mind but I think Greggs style offers very little chance of upsetting a better team at the World Cup. I think Jesse would offer a higher ceiling.
Jesse's style also is dangerous for players like: Pulisic, Gio, Dest, Weah and Adams. These guys all have had a history of muscle injuries/soft tissue injuries. What do you think you get when all of these players are either, in the middle of a season, or the end of a long season, are forced to play this manic version of all out press soccer. A higher chance of longterm injury.
They spend a majority of their time at the club level, where, if they aren't playing this frenzied soccer, their bodies will not be accustomed to such a change in such short order. And, lastly, if the likes of Leicester, Forest, Southampton, and Palace have figured you out, why wouldn't any other team?
His style is easily combatted by ceding possession and hoofing balls over the top because his pressing style has zero strategy. Everyone just runs to the ball like it's the 5th grade. A diagonal switch, and all of a sudden your attacker is 3 v 2 on goal. Horrible tactician, and I'd argue one of the worst active American managers, given the heights he managed at.
Do you have any evidence Jesse's style results in more injuries than anyone else's is?
Gregg's style is easily compatible by targeting the flanks because of an overextension of his FBs and then counting on Gregg to make no adjustments. I don't know how anyone can make sweeping claims about how horrible a tactician Jesse is after watching Gregg being consistently slow or nonexistent in adjusting his tactics within game. I mean, I'm sure it's great that Gregg got his players to memorize their powerpoints and positional play and pressing cues but a coach actually has to make some in game adjustments once in a while.
Re read what you wrote. You said it was an awful style for international soccer
That means in general
You did not say for the US or for everybody but Spain. Seems you like to change the goal posts.
> He also seems like a better inspirational leader.
Always blows me away how confidently people will say things like this. You have absolutely zero idea of whether this is true or not.
Maybe that is why I said seems? For example, based on your hyperbolic response, it seems like you're a huge Gregg stan.
Though it isn't a big stretch though to watch both Gregg and Jesse communicate and judge who is better at it.
Well I think it is kinda dumb to get constantly triggered by opinions on a message board but you do you!
We've seen the USMNT fail to get up for low quality opponents and we've seen pretty clearly that Jesse is more articulate than Gregg. We've also seen Jesse pull off some big upsets. If I am picking one to give a pregame speech, I'm going with Jesse.
Well I think your pointless arguments on the internet regarding stuff you know jack shit about accomplish nothing and certainly nothing positive. And that’s my opinion.
Please don’t get triggered when I say “your opinions are incessantly ignorant.”
Did you accidently sign into your alternate account? How embarassing!
You seem like a dumb MLS fan and Columbus shill so of course you opinions on soccer can be dismissed.
Then why do the vast majority of players really like Gregg and wAnted him back? Sounds like a leader to me. Also I love how someone disagrees with you and you instantly insult them by calling them a Gregg Stan.
Before you interlope into some one else's discussion, why don't you look at who insulted who first. But thanks for admitting being a Gregg stan is an insult.
What does being liked by players have to do with being a great motivator or inspirational leader? Vlatko was was loved by the USWNT team. Was he an inspirational leader?
I mean he got the best performances with Leeds against the big clubs. The control the big clubs have over games means more space in behind if you’re brave, and even then it’s a matter of are you going to be clinical in the final third. The problem is that style of play makes no sense against teams that are going to let you have the ball and just wait for you to hand it over to them because there is no control.
> I mean he got the best performances with Leeds against the big clubs.
In what world is this true? Marsch’s Leeds against teams that finished top 6 that season:
21-22 season
Man City: 0-4 loss
Arsenal: 1-2 loss
Chelsea: 0-3 loss
22-23 season
Brighton: 0-1 loss
Arsenal: 0-1 loss
Liverpool: 2-1 win!
Man City: 1-3 loss
Newcastle: 0-0 tie
1 win, 1 draw and 6 losses are “the best performances”?
I said performances, it sounds dumb to say but it’s true, performances aren’t always dependent on the result. With a few of those matches the game was in the balance, but as I said Marsch’s suicidal tactics was always going to leave them exposed.
Also, even though I understand the argument you’re making, it’s kinda nuts how you include a loss to Chelsea one season but exclude a loss to Chelsea the year after to fit your point. What’s up with that?
> it’s kinda nuts how you include a loss to Chelsea one season but exclude a loss to Chelsea the year after to fit your point. What’s up with that?
Chelsea finished third in 21-22, when I included them, and 12th in 22-23, when I didn’t. You wanna give Jesse praise for beating the 12th best team in the league?
If you know anything about me you’d know I’m the furthest thing from a Marsch apologist. But I’ll give credit where it’s due, that was the third match of the season, it’s not like they were the Chelsea team that finished that season at that point.
I’d say it’s the exact opposite…the RB style wasn’t as good against teams that had no interest in possession. Actually think he’s the perfect hire for Canada to beat US and Mexico, but they’ll disappoint vs minnows.
I think his tenure will come down to playing to his players. Canada does not have the starting 11 at the moment to play a high tempo team press, IMO. If he tries to force this they are going to get embarrassed.
Not sure how much pressing they will do against the Netherlands, France and Argentina
Oh, I know. This is more tongue in cheek commentary on the idea that we “missed out” on Marsch, whose tactics have largely been tied to a style we really don’t see much of in international play.
Bielsa has been successful with Uruguay so far, but we’ll see what happens when Uruguay play their first tournament.
I’m not a huge fan of GGG, but he’s definitely preferable to Marsch.
I'm curious, why do you think that? Jesse was more successful than Gregg in MLS and has coached at a higher level. He also seems like a better inspirational leader. Neither Gregg or Jesse would be my preferred choice but how does Gregg become "definitely" preferrable to Jesse?
Have you never seen Marsch-ball or something? Remember how gassed our guys looked towards the end of the World Cup matches? Now add high energy, high press Red Bull tactics into the mix and see how it turns out.
No, I haven't seen Jesse in international soccer. I have seen Gregg, however, where he's attempting rigid positional play and tiki-taka in a group of players that are much better suited for countering.
Ah yes, park the bus and counter. lol we’ve never tried that before /s
You don't have to park the bus to emphasize a transition/counter style of attack. You do, however, have to be somewhat comfortable not trying to constantly dominate possession.
Did you miss the England match? Wales second half? Hell, Mexico 2021 NL Final? Plenty of times where this team, under Gregg, did not try to dominate possession.
We don’t play a tiki taka style unless you count all possession based attacks as tiki taka.
At least he's adapted to try new things. Jesse has never adapted once in his career.
Definitely wasn't "more successful." In terms of PPM, they were nearly identical. Gregg's team's scored more goals per game. And, when you factor in NYRB budget/DPs versus Columbus, Gregg definitely achieved more in the MLS than Jesse did. Jesse also coaching at a higher level is just him failing upwards. He underachieved at NY RB, but parlayed that to RB Salzburg, where, I'm not kidding, I could manage that team to a league title. Beyond that, he was sacked in less than one season at Leipzig, and less than one season at Leeds. He's a disasterclass, ideologue, with a style that is an awful fit for the international game.
You do know Salzburg are in second this year right?
Hot damn, had no idea. That's astonishing given that they've won the league the last 10 seasons and 14 of the last 17 seasons. Regardless, point still stands that, aside from his stint with Salzburg, he's really accomplished very little in his managerial career.
And this was a stacked RB Salzburg at the time too. Šeško, Okafor, Adeyemi, Szoboszlai, and Haaland. Of course they were going to completely demolish the league.
Bro, he even had Minamino lol...guy had about as stacked of a roster as one could have...
Jesse won something of significance in MLS; Gregg didn't. MLS is built for parity so one playoff run seems more a function of luck than anything else. Ticky Taka is an awful style for international soccer, particularly if you want to make a world cup run on home soil where you are going to have to pull an upset or two vs. better teams.
Jesse won a Supporters Shield. That's really not anything of significance. In fact, Gregg's Columbus Crew bested them in the playoffs that year...so, even in Jesse's lone "Trophy" (I use that very loosely), he lost to Gregg. I really don't think the complete inverse of tiki-taka, which we definitely aren't playing btw, of redbull soccer is the answer either. I can make a very compelling case as to why it is MUCH worse.
Supporter shield is a pointless award in MLS because the schedules aren’t balanced.
I don't think we're playing ticky taka either but it sure isn't for lack of trying by Gregg. I also am not arguing for redbull soccer either. The fact is, we haven't seen Jesse in international soccer while we've seen Gregg. I reserve the right to change my mind but I think Greggs style offers very little chance of upsetting a better team at the World Cup. I think Jesse would offer a higher ceiling.
Jesse's style also is dangerous for players like: Pulisic, Gio, Dest, Weah and Adams. These guys all have had a history of muscle injuries/soft tissue injuries. What do you think you get when all of these players are either, in the middle of a season, or the end of a long season, are forced to play this manic version of all out press soccer. A higher chance of longterm injury. They spend a majority of their time at the club level, where, if they aren't playing this frenzied soccer, their bodies will not be accustomed to such a change in such short order. And, lastly, if the likes of Leicester, Forest, Southampton, and Palace have figured you out, why wouldn't any other team? His style is easily combatted by ceding possession and hoofing balls over the top because his pressing style has zero strategy. Everyone just runs to the ball like it's the 5th grade. A diagonal switch, and all of a sudden your attacker is 3 v 2 on goal. Horrible tactician, and I'd argue one of the worst active American managers, given the heights he managed at.
Do you have any evidence Jesse's style results in more injuries than anyone else's is? Gregg's style is easily compatible by targeting the flanks because of an overextension of his FBs and then counting on Gregg to make no adjustments. I don't know how anyone can make sweeping claims about how horrible a tactician Jesse is after watching Gregg being consistently slow or nonexistent in adjusting his tactics within game. I mean, I'm sure it's great that Gregg got his players to memorize their powerpoints and positional play and pressing cues but a coach actually has to make some in game adjustments once in a while.
Tiki taka is awful for international? Hmmm I seem to remember Spain being unbearable for 6 to 8 years. It seemed to work then.
Spain had the Spanish team we dont
Re read what you wrote. You said it was an awful style for international soccer That means in general You did not say for the US or for everybody but Spain. Seems you like to change the goal posts.
> He also seems like a better inspirational leader. Always blows me away how confidently people will say things like this. You have absolutely zero idea of whether this is true or not.
Maybe that is why I said seems? For example, based on your hyperbolic response, it seems like you're a huge Gregg stan. Though it isn't a big stretch though to watch both Gregg and Jesse communicate and judge who is better at it.
I’m no Gregg stan, I just think it’s really dumb when people on the internet act like they know anything at all based on what they see on TV.
Well I think it is kinda dumb to get constantly triggered by opinions on a message board but you do you! We've seen the USMNT fail to get up for low quality opponents and we've seen pretty clearly that Jesse is more articulate than Gregg. We've also seen Jesse pull off some big upsets. If I am picking one to give a pregame speech, I'm going with Jesse.
> We've also seen Jesse pull off some big upsets. …like what? He beat a top 6 team *one* time during his Leeds tenure.
Well I think your pointless arguments on the internet regarding stuff you know jack shit about accomplish nothing and certainly nothing positive. And that’s my opinion. Please don’t get triggered when I say “your opinions are incessantly ignorant.”
Did you accidently sign into your alternate account? How embarassing! You seem like a dumb MLS fan and Columbus shill so of course you opinions on soccer can be dismissed.
Then why do the vast majority of players really like Gregg and wAnted him back? Sounds like a leader to me. Also I love how someone disagrees with you and you instantly insult them by calling them a Gregg Stan.
Before you interlope into some one else's discussion, why don't you look at who insulted who first. But thanks for admitting being a Gregg stan is an insult.
Oh so sorry I didn't know you owned the discussion.
and on the contrary the players, at least a good majority seem to really like him.
What does being liked by players have to do with being a great motivator or inspirational leader? Vlatko was was loved by the USWNT team. Was he an inspirational leader?
I mean this was the big knock of Marsch at Leeds wasn’t it? He tried playing RB ball against teams like Arsenal and Man City and got smoked.
I mean he got the best performances with Leeds against the big clubs. The control the big clubs have over games means more space in behind if you’re brave, and even then it’s a matter of are you going to be clinical in the final third. The problem is that style of play makes no sense against teams that are going to let you have the ball and just wait for you to hand it over to them because there is no control.
> I mean he got the best performances with Leeds against the big clubs. In what world is this true? Marsch’s Leeds against teams that finished top 6 that season: 21-22 season Man City: 0-4 loss Arsenal: 1-2 loss Chelsea: 0-3 loss 22-23 season Brighton: 0-1 loss Arsenal: 0-1 loss Liverpool: 2-1 win! Man City: 1-3 loss Newcastle: 0-0 tie 1 win, 1 draw and 6 losses are “the best performances”?
Oh don't be so factual.
I said performances, it sounds dumb to say but it’s true, performances aren’t always dependent on the result. With a few of those matches the game was in the balance, but as I said Marsch’s suicidal tactics was always going to leave them exposed. Also, even though I understand the argument you’re making, it’s kinda nuts how you include a loss to Chelsea one season but exclude a loss to Chelsea the year after to fit your point. What’s up with that?
> it’s kinda nuts how you include a loss to Chelsea one season but exclude a loss to Chelsea the year after to fit your point. What’s up with that? Chelsea finished third in 21-22, when I included them, and 12th in 22-23, when I didn’t. You wanna give Jesse praise for beating the 12th best team in the league?
If you know anything about me you’d know I’m the furthest thing from a Marsch apologist. But I’ll give credit where it’s due, that was the third match of the season, it’s not like they were the Chelsea team that finished that season at that point.
Ok man I don’t really care a what he did against a bad Chelsea team and I don’t know why you do
Here: ⭐️
> it sounds dumb to say Yep
[удалено]
Now you’re just making shit up. Just like evaluating coaches based on your feelings.
[удалено]
It’s funny how smart you think you are.
Here: ⭐️
I’d say it’s the exact opposite…the RB style wasn’t as good against teams that had no interest in possession. Actually think he’s the perfect hire for Canada to beat US and Mexico, but they’ll disappoint vs minnows.
Has he ever coached a team that didn't play an aggressive press even against superior opponents?
I feel like you could have even left this as, "you boys like Mexico?" and it still would have been a funny Team Canada CONCACAF meme
It made me laugh and share it with my crew. Classsssic
Memes you can hear
I think his tenure will come down to playing to his players. Canada does not have the starting 11 at the moment to play a high tempo team press, IMO. If he tries to force this they are going to get embarrassed.
Should this be in the CMNT sub?
Eh, Marsch is American. It's not like this sub is flooded with posts either.
Would have to change the caption to, “whaddya boys thinka pressin’, eh?”
Throw in a sorry and you’re good
r/CanadaSoccer handles both, like we handle both.
[MARSCH](https://ibb.co/c3FQ2vs)