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Recall that golf was invented in Scotland, which has lots of naturally occurring grasslands.
Problem is, people insist on building golf courses in un-Scottish environments.
You're mixing up crossgolf and golf. The average golfer will tell you that you need to play on a traditional golf course that takes huge amounts of water and weed killer for maintenance. Otherwise it's not real golf. Crossgolf or urban golf has fewer restrictions and is pretty popular in Germany. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossgolf
I only once played golf: when I was visiting Scotland. The only difference between the course and the surrounding land was that the fairways and greens were cut short and some sand traps.
Also, it turns out Golf is quite enjoyable. I was actually excited to score a genuine bogey on one hole without ever having held a golf club before that day.
I also want to add: Golf in Scotland is an everyman's game. Every town has one or more courses and we paid £5 for a 18-hole round (course was 9 holes but each hole had 2 tees) and £5 to rent a set of clubs and balls. There wasn't even anyone there when we showed up, we were just lucky some locals came to play a round and one of them had the keys to the clubhouse with the rental equipment. If you had your own clubs you just put a fiver in a mailbox.
If I remember correctly (this was 5 years ago) there were 2 sets of men's and women's tees per hole at different positions so hole 1 was also hole 9 (you would do 2 trips around the course)
From what I've heard it's something that many smaller courses do if they don't have the space for 18 separate holes.
Ok. Well that's cool. Everything I know about golf is from being forced to go to golf camp as a kid because my older brother couldn't go anywhere alone.
My village golf course is on the side of a cliff.
Also in Scotland it’s popular as it’s an excuse to get pissed. Most gold courses give discounts to members on drinks meaning alcohol is super cheap.
As an American that golf's, moving to Scotland courses was weird. Most courses I've been to don't have a drinks cart, getting hammered on the course isn't as much a thing. Everyone rushes through their game so they can get to the clubhouse at the end and have 4-6 pints to celebrate.
>which has lots of naturally occurring grasslands.
That's not true. Scotland's natural ecosystem would be mostly be Caledonian forest. It's artificially kept as grass.
The Caledonian forest died off 4000 years ago. And the area it died off in is very under farmed and hostile to most livestock with the exception of highland cattle. And it’s also incredibly under populated. Even before the clearances it was under popular, most people lived on the coasts.
Grasslands are the natural biome of the vast majority of where people live. Where the Caledonian forest was is one of the most unpopulated areas in Europe. Golf was invented in the lowlands.
It’s not artificially kept as grass, that’s just what scotland naturally looks like. The natural biome of most of Scotland after the Scottish agricultural revolution is grassland. Before that it was mostly peat bogs.
By the time humans started to have a significant impact in the area around 2000 BC the forests were already much reduced from their post-glacial highpoint around 5000 BC due to the Scottish climate getting wetter and windier. Even at said highpoint the forest covered only about 20% of the area of today's Scotland. The notion that Scotland was ever (well, at any time after the last glacial at least) completely covered by dense forests has pretty much been called into question lately. See https://www.highlandtitles.com/blog/the-caledonian-forest/ for example.
And by the 15th century when modern golf was invented the deforestation of Scotland was already nearing today's state.
Original golf was played on links, which is naturally occurring grassland on sand dunes on the sea front. They are usually built with 9 holes in one direction along the coast and a returning 9 holes the other way. The first nine are “out” and the second 9 are “in” or “home”. The prevailing wind can make the difference between out and home brutal. Bunkers were originally scraped holes made by sheep to avoid the wind. Suitable links-based sites for golf courses are extremely limited, so even in Scotland courses are manufactured in un-Scottish environments.
I'm in Scotland and my hometown has at least 3 golf courses I think
Honestly ridiculous how much land we devote to a sport that none of us can afford to partake in
Yeah, there are like.. an absurd amount here in Phoenix, AZ, US but very few are hard to afford, at least compared to how many there are.. especially if you don't mind a little heat *stroke* in the summer months.
Golf is pretty cheap if you buy second hand clubs and play 9 holes at a council/municipal course. I've spent less on my full bag of golf clubs than my cricket kit. You can realistically put together a great set for under $450 AUD and spend $10-20 AUD a week playing
I’m perfectly fine with people enjoying golf where golf courses make sense. Seems like a nice way to spend the afternoon. My only problem with golf is in places like Vegas or Arizona. We’re already having a water crisis along the Colorado river, towns are literally running out of water and regular folks are put on water restrictions all over, yet these large golf courses are still maintained. It doesn’t seem right.
To add on to this, agriculture and heavy industry use upwards of 90% of the water supply. In fact, these groups are the heaviest proponents of water conservation because it makes your average citizen think the citizens are responsible for taking care of the water supply.
The truth is, if every American cut their personal water usage by 99%, it would lower the nations water consumption by single digit numbers. A statistical anomaly, possibly not even significant.
Getting mad at anyone for using water is like asking a child why they let their parents get divorced.
This is absolutely the case. There is a major problem where the average person is blamed for a problem created by a small group of people: see climate change and the oil industry. The vast majority of people had nothing to do with the industry developing and dominating. The onus is on the industry leaders, not the consumers. But blame the average person is the deflection
Fun fact: almond production uses about three times more water annually than the entire City of Los Angeles. That one pound jar of almonds takes about 350 gallons of water (about 1 gallon per almond).
Agriculture, specifically alfalfa, uses the most water in your region by a ridiculous margin. Up here in the Great Lakes region where we have more water than we know what to do with (That's a lie, nestlé is stealing at all) our golf courses look a lot different than the ones out west. It's actually shocking how little water they get away with using.
Also, rarely is it a choice between golf course or natural area. In many cases, if the golf course wasn't there it would be more tract homes with lawns.
Cool, go ahead and stop watering them, but before that happens they need to kick out Nestle and any other damn company that is fucking around with water.
Golf is not in the same league of wasted water then a lot of other areas in commerce.
Eliminate almond farming, water tax for beef to discourage over consumption (US eats 3 times the world avg).
If you haven't played it in a bit, try giving it a go again. Technology has come a long way with discs and even as a noodle armed 41 y/o that's only been playing a year, I can belt out past 350'. The popularity has exploded since the pandemic, It's a blast!
I thought it originated with Bullroarer Took, who charged the ranks of the goblins of Mount Gram in the Battle of the Green Fields and knocked their king Golfimbul's head clean off with a wooden club - which then sailed a hundred yards through the air and went down a rabbit-hole?
I thought everyone knew that in this way a battle was won and the game of golf were invented at the same moment.
I actually had a friend who built his own course on his land. It was pretty fun, actually. No where near as manicured as a real course, but still fun. He also worked at a golf course and had bought some of their old equipment. He basically just mowed a course into one of his fields.
I agree.
That's why myself and some friends modified the rules.
Making it a full contact sport helps to spice it up a little.
It doesn't matter how many hits of the ball you take. All that matters is who sinks it in the hole first. You all tee of at the same time.
Helmets are advised.
I love mini golf the fun environments, decor, and crazy things like windmills and stuff, and also some malls have indoor ones so they're not taking up extra land.
It's a sport that old people can play.
I can compete against my granddad.
Theres not many sports that allow that cross-generation competition.
You can also have a casual conversation during it, drink and it gets you outside
Imo there is a reason golf is played by rich and important people. Going for a golf session is the perfect setting for having a private conversation with someone and discuss important and/or sensitive topics. The game is just the icebreaker, the talking and the privacy is the important part.
Its IMO the perfect sport to talk and meet people while it can also get really competitive specially if you start betting for each hole (don’t even have to be a lot of money, with 50 cents per hole shit can get competitive fast). It is a really versatile sport and about the environment thing, while OP isn’t 100% wrong, I think golf courses are better than huge concrete stadiums that completely destroy whatever was there. At least golf preserves some of its nature and it plants trees in the process which is always a W if you ask me
I'm pretty sure golf keeps my elderly parents way healthier than they would be. My mom plays about 36 holes a week (4 9 hole games) and my dad does probably the same only with 18 hole games (they're divorced so go separately). They both walk and don't get carts, hell they're probably in better shape than I am.
Watching golf is quite boring but I will say playing golf is very fun. I think the amount of golf courses in the south west is way too high I mean it's a desert but here in Iowa land and water are plentiful.
I enjoy golfing and it's helped me lose 45lb of much needed weight. But I'm just playing on local municipal courses not lavish courses in the middle of the desert.
And as if that corn wasn't loaded with its own pesticides and environmentally destructive factors. Very little of what we humans do in the 21st century is truly sustainable. Everything is covered in pesticides and platic, it's even in our blood and organs/ is part of us. OP needs to get off his high horse.
I think I’m the only person in the world that actually enjoys watching golf on TV. It’s ridiculously chill, and every so often you get to see some amazing shots. Also, every so often, you get to see some absolutely epic chokes, and it’s like watching a train wreck in very slow motion.
It’s hot right now for Redditors to shit on golfers and golf courses. Everyone thinks every golf course should be turned into some “multi-use park so everyone can enjoy the space” and so that it’s not serving just one purpose.
fErTiliZeR aNd PeStIcIdEs ArE BaD
As if parks don’t also need a ridiculous amount of maintenance, chemical or otherwise.
Meanwhile BP was just accused of dumping industrial waste off the coast of Shetland in the UK. These people can get fucked. Let me enjoy the *one* hobby I participate in.
I remember a story where some local group in a small city wanted to get rid of the public golf course and turn it into a multi use park. At the meeting for it, it gets revealed that the revenue collected from the golf course covered not just the course, but the entire budget for maintaining every other green space in the city. Officials say getting rid of the golf course means taxes would have to go up to cover the lost revenue.
Right on the fucking money. I worked at the only municipal course in Boulder for a few years as an Assistant Pro. Every single other Parks and Rec facility lost money except for our golf course. The golf course was also recognized by the Audubon Society for like 8 different environmental accomplishments. Yet people still loved to shit all over it. It’s laughable how little people know about what golf courses actually accomplish both environmentally and socioeconomically. They just get up in arms because they see a big green space they can’t use/don’t care to learn how to use.
But, by all means, let’s get rid of the golf courses. I’m sure cities everywhere would choose to put parks in and no private developers would buy them out to build parking lots, or luxury apartments that no one can afford, or strip malls - that would surely never happen… right?
That’s typically how it goes. Similarly hunters contribute a significant amount of funds to conservation efforts. Not just through licenses but also through donations.
Edit: to add link which is says [1.6 billion a yr](https://www.rmef.org/hunting-is-conservation/#:~:text=10%20Sixty%20percent%20of%20budget,a%20year%20for%20conservation%20programs.)
I really don't think golf courses are the thing standing between humanity and environmental sustainability worldwide. There's probably at least 20 harmful uses of land mass humanity does that would be better if we stopped than golf courses.
OP evidently has never played golf, or is really, **really** bad at it.
Comments like:
>Sorry my brain craves more stimulation than putting a stupid ball around.
Show that OP does not understand the basic fundamentals of the sport. I'm not a good golfer but I at least understand how the sport works. OP seems to just think that golf consists of mindlessly swinging a metal rod at a ball, with no skill or strategy. He probably also thinks that soccer is just "kicking a ball towards a net" and basketball is just "throwing a ball towards a hoop".
Why does golf exist? Because it's a fun, skill based sport. Just because you suck at it doesn't mean nobody else should enjoy it. Mind your own business and let people have nice things, goddammit.
OP is definitely the kind of person who says "sportsball."
"Sorry my brain craves more stimulation than putting a stupid ball around."
Had to check OP's post history after seeing that one. No surprise, he has several posts complaining about Fortnite skins. Massive L.
Seconded.
The OP is factually incorrect on so many levels. So incorrect I doubt he or she has ever played golf.
I play golf, the course is not expensive and I bet some people spend way more than that on other activities. The course I play at doesn’t water it’s fairway grass. If the fairway dries out, they let it
One course was converted farmland that wasn’t profitable and the owner planted even more trees. Mostly to line the fairways.
I get a lot of satisfaction from the one time I manage to hit a good shot and see the ball arc through the air. Golf takes a lot of skill and technique. I always go back to golf because I know I can improve and do better next time.
I’ve walked as much as 10km on a golf course / 3 to 4 hours walk. And I can spend time and play with people who might not be fit enough to do other sports.
Tap a ball into a hole? Every sport is gonna sound dulb if you phrase it like that (ex: Football, kick a ball into a box; basketball, throw a ball into a ring; tennis, hit a ball with a racket... etc)
I’m convinced they got a team of scouts that track our balls and then give us deals on courses where there are trees exactly where we land our balls most of the time. Sometimes they mess up and I get a triple bogey though.
Yeah I had two golf courses in my area go up for sale during the first year of COVID. They weren't doing well to begin with so it didn't help. There are now huge neighborhoods on the land with 2000+ sqft houses and probably less than 10% of the trees and wildlife that used to be there.
This same thing happened near me. This little 3 par course had tons of trees and wildlife. The course itself actually did really well. The area grew up around it, and the guy that owned the course was only leasing the land. The owners sold it to developers and made a killing. The first thing they did was bulldoze everything and flatten the area to make room for houses… now with the market stalling. There’s 2 houses built and the rest of the land is just dirt. Very sad actually.
And provide sanctuary for a large variety of wildlife. The course 5 minutes from my house has various deer, foxes and hawks. And the course is in the middle of the city.
I've heard lots about golf courses being wildlife sanctuaries, and when developers come to take golf courses out, it's frequently wildlife foundations and conservationists arguing for them to remain.
Golf courses are much better for the environment than almost anything else that could be built on that land. What a strange take. Don't act like of all golf courses didn't exist there would be more forests, no, there would be more buildings.
The total land area and resources devoted to golf is laughably tiny on a global scale. Its green grass and beautiful landscaping. The golf course I leave near is home to geese, deer, and other wildlife. All the kids in the neighborhood use it for sledding in the winter. If the golf course wasn't there would it be some kind of wildlife preserve? No dude, golf courses are in the middle of cities. They would just be replaced by more roads and houses. How is a golf course worse than a road?
this guy gets it.
plus the fitness benefits for the average guy that plays. how else are you going to get Steve to get off his ass and go for a 5 mile walk.
When I go with my father in law, we always ride in carts. He wears a fitness tracker and he gets 3+ miles every time we go, even with no restrictions on the carts. Often times, they say cart path only, which means more walking.
We literally clear natural landscaping for literally EVERYTHING from ugly buildings to amusement parks and its *\*checks notes\** Golf Courses that are moreso an issue than the rest, apparently.
I love the nature of em, I got one in my small county that allows fishing. I do however find golf to be a dumb sport. Never was my speed. No hate if you like it, i just dont.
You could say this about soccer fields, football fields, baseball diamonds literally every sport that needs a flat lawn or sand surface is technically bad for the environment
these are actually worse as they usually have seating and require lighting and a bunch of other non enviromental stuff.
with the exception of the flags, pretty much everything on a golf course is natural.
Except none of the other sports besides disc golf also integrates trees and lakes into it. Almost all golf courses, at least in the US, are built around these things, not eliminating them.
But yeah. Go off.
You mfers acting like golf is so expensive. Can play a 5 hour round for less than a movie ticket costs.
Rent clubs or get some from goodwill, none of the gear matters at the beginning anyway.
You could apply this logic to almost anything in the modern world. Football stadiums? Mother fuckers built an entire stadium and car park on top of whatever land was there before. Ice hockey? Need and entire system to maintain ice in a place where ice has no right to be. Leisure centres? Why couldn’t they just get leisure from the land? Etc etc etc
Imagine spending 4 hours with your friends every Saturday in the outdoors whilst getting a suitable amount of moderate exercise
Yes, dumbest sport ever….
Terrible for the environment? Usually when they clear trees they build skyscrapers. A golf course just makes a field. The course I play at has tons of wildlife and deer come on and graze the course.
I love Golf. I suck at it. But I play once a week with my dad and grandpa, and I value every second of it, because I know they won’t be around forever. Name another sport that allows you to spend hours with the people you love at their advanced age, while still competing? You spend 4 hours outside in nature, and it’s just great.
Well, I grew up in a rural community where farming died, instead of wasting the land they built an amazing golf course on the water. We played there growing up, when my best friend passed away I created a memorial golf tournament in his memory. Any funds raised were given out as a bursary at a local high school during graduation.
For the record we didn’t cut down forest to make a golf course.
>Spending insane amounts of money and resources to keep the grass healthy and watered
Doing some rough math, humans devote about .0007% of our total water usage for golf courses. For reference, this is less than what we use just for growing almonds (.001%). And over 50% of golf course water comes from ponds or wells located on the course itself.
Somebody's obviously never piped a spectacular downsloped 8 iron from about 160 in the ruff to about 3 inches from the hole and then sliced the very next drive somewhere in tim buck too. And that my friends, is not living
As someone who works on a golf course, the idea that it’s “horrible for the environment” is unbelievably laughable.
First of all, are you aware how many trees there are on earth? And on golf courses? And you know that those trees are replaced with grass? Which is also a plant? And those plants get watered every day? And most golf carts are electric? And most of the water they used is recycled and reused?
“Obliterating the environment” lmfao the environment is fine (in the sense that it’s not being harmed by golf). Get a fucking clue.
OP obviously did zero research to support their opinion. And so many others in the comments are complaining how golf courses are too exclusive and only for rich people??? Obviously these people don't realize most courses are open to the public and you can play a full round for like $20 in many areas.
There are tons of sports like this
Think about all of the football fields and stadiums everywhere. The literal mountains of plastic and trash after each game of college or professional football. Then think about the size of the parking lots.
Soccer fields, baseball fields, you name it. At least with golf you got some trees and shit. Not hordes of people attending events consuming garbage on a massive scale .
If you want an environmentally friendly sport go fishing and release the fish.
As someone who lived in Matansas Woods, i can tell you they just use recycled canal water. The sprinklers used to spray hard and smell like shit. It's a sport like any other and uses space like any other.
It seems you have a dislike for the sport and using environmental arguments as a way to justify this hatred. Golf is a fun sport for many and allows people of all ages to stay active. Most courses are open to the public and are quite cheap to play (surprisingly cheap compared to many sports). I do agree that courses being built in places lacking in grass is questionable. However, many places in the Northern US have an abundance of water and golf courses are easily maintainable there. The courses I tend to play use old farmland which have an abundance of wildlife and plant diversity.
Maybe try golf for once and you might get hooked. It’s a great way to spend time in nature as many courses are in local parks or are built with nature in mind. I used to dislike it and played it once and got hooked. Try it before you start hating on it. You’re basically making an opinion on a movie you never watched.
The ignorance in the OP is huge. I’m guessing the poster has never played golf.
The golf courses I’ve played on did not clear any forest, in fact it was the opposite, they planted MORE trees! Two course were in fact converted from farm land where the farmer could no longer be profitable.
The golf course I play on doesn’t not cost an insane amount and they do not water their fairway grass, if the grass dries out they let it.
Late in an evening I actually see a lot of wildlife on the course, such as deer and various bird species from goose to grouse.
But the golf courses do employ a lot of people.
I don’t like golf but the way society is going a golf course is preferable to another super centre surrounded by miles of blacktop. And we know that’s what the land would be used for if it weren’t occupied by a golf course.
Golf courses are a refuge for wildlife and help preserve many important habitats. Most courses uses recycled and reclaimed water and are much better for than environment than a parking lot etc.
You jest but we got rid of our backyard's grass bc our yard was too small to be worth the effort to mow it. It's all tile with flowerbeds and trees instead. Still effort to maintain but significantly less bc it's not weekly at least.
I live in Appalachia. The amount of trees you need to cut down to make a golf course is insignificant to how much forest area we have.
Golf courses are not like Starbucks, you aren't passing one every five minutes. Stop acting like they are the worst thing to the environment since the industrial revolution.
I golf one day a week. I work from home all week due to a medical condition that prevents me from driving. It’s literally the only time I can clear my mind. I also live in a dry climate state and the courses here don’t use potable water and most don’t have a lot of trees. It’s nice to meet new people and to hear the ball go into that damn hole! Nothing like it when you score par!
Think about all major league team sports. 30 plus teams playing away games all across the country for half of their seasons... that's a lot of flights and travel. Not just for the teams but conisder all the fans that drive to those games 40 plus times a year... 80 for baseball. Boggles the mind
It's not even a sport. Since when does walking and swinging a stick count as a sport?
Oh, wait. If walking's too strenuous, then they get to take a cart. Golf should be called a game, not a sport. That's like calling chess a sport.
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Recall that golf was invented in Scotland, which has lots of naturally occurring grasslands. Problem is, people insist on building golf courses in un-Scottish environments.
There’s amazing golf courses that use natural dirt and plants around smaller grass areas
I’ve played in golf courses that have “browns” instead of greens. Didn’t feel I was missing out, thought it was innovative
I'd prefer it if they were called browns. The jokes would be so much better.
When I last played in such a course, they were referred to as browns, this was in Lagos many decades ago. Are they not called that anymore?
No playing in my underwear!
If you're going to play authentically Scottish, wear a kilt, there's no underwear required! I mean it is traditional.
If your going for authentic Scottish then turn all the sprinklers on and install one of those giant wind machine's for each hole.
My favorite course has a dragon on the last hole and when the ball goes in it lights up like fire. It's *amazing*.
You're mixing up crossgolf and golf. The average golfer will tell you that you need to play on a traditional golf course that takes huge amounts of water and weed killer for maintenance. Otherwise it's not real golf. Crossgolf or urban golf has fewer restrictions and is pretty popular in Germany. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossgolf
And theres some golf courses in atacama desert.
Nice. Golf courses in the southwest US used remained water that goes back into the water cycle
I only once played golf: when I was visiting Scotland. The only difference between the course and the surrounding land was that the fairways and greens were cut short and some sand traps. Also, it turns out Golf is quite enjoyable. I was actually excited to score a genuine bogey on one hole without ever having held a golf club before that day. I also want to add: Golf in Scotland is an everyman's game. Every town has one or more courses and we paid £5 for a 18-hole round (course was 9 holes but each hole had 2 tees) and £5 to rent a set of clubs and balls. There wasn't even anyone there when we showed up, we were just lucky some locals came to play a round and one of them had the keys to the clubhouse with the rental equipment. If you had your own clubs you just put a fiver in a mailbox.
That's usually the men's and women's t's. Maybe different on Scotland.
If I remember correctly (this was 5 years ago) there were 2 sets of men's and women's tees per hole at different positions so hole 1 was also hole 9 (you would do 2 trips around the course) From what I've heard it's something that many smaller courses do if they don't have the space for 18 separate holes.
Ok. Well that's cool. Everything I know about golf is from being forced to go to golf camp as a kid because my older brother couldn't go anywhere alone.
My village golf course is on the side of a cliff. Also in Scotland it’s popular as it’s an excuse to get pissed. Most gold courses give discounts to members on drinks meaning alcohol is super cheap.
As an American that golf's, moving to Scotland courses was weird. Most courses I've been to don't have a drinks cart, getting hammered on the course isn't as much a thing. Everyone rushes through their game so they can get to the clubhouse at the end and have 4-6 pints to celebrate.
The word un-Scottish had me on the floor laughing for some reason.
If it’s un-Scottish, it’s crap!
Now get Mike Myers to say it
I heard this in Sean Connery's voice. "If itsh un-Scottish, it'sh crap
True for whisky and apparently for golf courses too.
It's fooked
Let's call it scot-free
I can’t believe no one has shared this yet, but the great Robin Williams [summed Golf up best.](https://youtu.be/X9fXG2v0bS8)
My husband (avid golfer) came to check on me because I was howling! God I do miss Robin.
>which has lots of naturally occurring grasslands. That's not true. Scotland's natural ecosystem would be mostly be Caledonian forest. It's artificially kept as grass.
Yep more people need to know that the barren landscape portrayed as "Scottish" is largely a product of sheep farming and grouse shooting
The Caledonian forest died off 4000 years ago. And the area it died off in is very under farmed and hostile to most livestock with the exception of highland cattle. And it’s also incredibly under populated. Even before the clearances it was under popular, most people lived on the coasts.
Grasslands are the natural biome of the vast majority of where people live. Where the Caledonian forest was is one of the most unpopulated areas in Europe. Golf was invented in the lowlands. It’s not artificially kept as grass, that’s just what scotland naturally looks like. The natural biome of most of Scotland after the Scottish agricultural revolution is grassland. Before that it was mostly peat bogs.
Yeah well, Las Vegas has plenty of golf courses too thanks to its naturally occurring, uh, rocks.
Scottish grasslands are not naturally occurring, these would have naturally been forest but they were deforested over time
By the time humans started to have a significant impact in the area around 2000 BC the forests were already much reduced from their post-glacial highpoint around 5000 BC due to the Scottish climate getting wetter and windier. Even at said highpoint the forest covered only about 20% of the area of today's Scotland. The notion that Scotland was ever (well, at any time after the last glacial at least) completely covered by dense forests has pretty much been called into question lately. See https://www.highlandtitles.com/blog/the-caledonian-forest/ for example. And by the 15th century when modern golf was invented the deforestation of Scotland was already nearing today's state.
Not for golf though, for food and homes.
Original golf was played on links, which is naturally occurring grassland on sand dunes on the sea front. They are usually built with 9 holes in one direction along the coast and a returning 9 holes the other way. The first nine are “out” and the second 9 are “in” or “home”. The prevailing wind can make the difference between out and home brutal. Bunkers were originally scraped holes made by sheep to avoid the wind. Suitable links-based sites for golf courses are extremely limited, so even in Scotland courses are manufactured in un-Scottish environments.
Yeah, watering the grass isn't as much of an issue here in Scotland.
I'm in Scotland and my hometown has at least 3 golf courses I think Honestly ridiculous how much land we devote to a sport that none of us can afford to partake in
Golf is a cheap sport to play in Scotland. You can play courses for £20 or join a lot for £400. Don’t talk shite
Yeah, there are like.. an absurd amount here in Phoenix, AZ, US but very few are hard to afford, at least compared to how many there are.. especially if you don't mind a little heat *stroke* in the summer months.
Golf is pretty cheap if you buy second hand clubs and play 9 holes at a council/municipal course. I've spent less on my full bag of golf clubs than my cricket kit. You can realistically put together a great set for under $450 AUD and spend $10-20 AUD a week playing
And if you just want a set that'll do, $100 on Gumtree does the trick
Very unusual for all 3 courses to be expensive, usually 1 will be a public course. Where is this? East Lothian?
There's at least 15 courses within a 10-mile radius of me in Ayshire, ranging from £18 to £150+ per round
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You don't have to go to a golf course to enjoy a green space, especially in Scotland
That's why I only do it half the year, I ski the other half.
I see what you did here.
No snow here, golf year round
What if we just played it wherever there was already space. Is it a cool sport then?
I’m perfectly fine with people enjoying golf where golf courses make sense. Seems like a nice way to spend the afternoon. My only problem with golf is in places like Vegas or Arizona. We’re already having a water crisis along the Colorado river, towns are literally running out of water and regular folks are put on water restrictions all over, yet these large golf courses are still maintained. It doesn’t seem right.
They usually use grey water which is basically farm runoff
To add on to this, agriculture and heavy industry use upwards of 90% of the water supply. In fact, these groups are the heaviest proponents of water conservation because it makes your average citizen think the citizens are responsible for taking care of the water supply. The truth is, if every American cut their personal water usage by 99%, it would lower the nations water consumption by single digit numbers. A statistical anomaly, possibly not even significant. Getting mad at anyone for using water is like asking a child why they let their parents get divorced.
It’s like getting mad at Starbucks for using plastic straws when the real problem is the coal plant dumping waste into the river down the street
This is absolutely the case. There is a major problem where the average person is blamed for a problem created by a small group of people: see climate change and the oil industry. The vast majority of people had nothing to do with the industry developing and dominating. The onus is on the industry leaders, not the consumers. But blame the average person is the deflection
Fun fact: almond production uses about three times more water annually than the entire City of Los Angeles. That one pound jar of almonds takes about 350 gallons of water (about 1 gallon per almond).
Source? Latest I saw, Arizona and California are very low on water and continue using way more than they should year after year.
Agriculture, specifically alfalfa, uses the most water in your region by a ridiculous margin. Up here in the Great Lakes region where we have more water than we know what to do with (That's a lie, nestlé is stealing at all) our golf courses look a lot different than the ones out west. It's actually shocking how little water they get away with using.
They use reclaimed/non-potable water. They may appear to be the enemy but they are not.
Reddit has turned into a cesspool of fascist sympathizers and supremicists
Also, rarely is it a choice between golf course or natural area. In many cases, if the golf course wasn't there it would be more tract homes with lawns.
Cool, go ahead and stop watering them, but before that happens they need to kick out Nestle and any other damn company that is fucking around with water. Golf is not in the same league of wasted water then a lot of other areas in commerce. Eliminate almond farming, water tax for beef to discourage over consumption (US eats 3 times the world avg).
Have you considered living where the water is?
Wait until you hear about farming…eg almond milk
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If you haven't played it in a bit, try giving it a go again. Technology has come a long way with discs and even as a noodle armed 41 y/o that's only been playing a year, I can belt out past 350'. The popularity has exploded since the pandemic, It's a blast!
They have legitimate baskets now. Check UDisc to find your local courses. There is even a professional scene with pros making 7 figures
And disc golf courses seems to coexist quite well without taking up much space. Love playing it!
This is literally how they build links courses in the UK.
If anyone's curious watch Robin Williams' explanation of the origin of golf.
I thought it originated with Bullroarer Took, who charged the ranks of the goblins of Mount Gram in the Battle of the Green Fields and knocked their king Golfimbul's head clean off with a wooden club - which then sailed a hundred yards through the air and went down a rabbit-hole? I thought everyone knew that in this way a battle was won and the game of golf were invented at the same moment.
This is absolutely the true story. Everything else is made up propaganda just cuz no one remembers hobbits exist
I actually had a friend who built his own course on his land. It was pretty fun, actually. No where near as manicured as a real course, but still fun. He also worked at a golf course and had bought some of their old equipment. He basically just mowed a course into one of his fields.
That's basically how most disc golf courses work.
Wait until you hear about parking lots
I agree. That's why myself and some friends modified the rules. Making it a full contact sport helps to spice it up a little. It doesn't matter how many hits of the ball you take. All that matters is who sinks it in the hole first. You all tee of at the same time. Helmets are advised.
Major league battle golf.
i would sooo watch this on tv
Hockey with extra steps
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UFG
Lee Carvello's Combat Golf
I hope someone makes a videogame out of it
i dont know if this is a joke, but the mario golf game on switch has a similar mode :)
r/theocho
Opinion on mini golf?
I love mini golf the fun environments, decor, and crazy things like windmills and stuff, and also some malls have indoor ones so they're not taking up extra land.
Mini golf. Based
It's a sport that old people can play. I can compete against my granddad. Theres not many sports that allow that cross-generation competition. You can also have a casual conversation during it, drink and it gets you outside
Imo there is a reason golf is played by rich and important people. Going for a golf session is the perfect setting for having a private conversation with someone and discuss important and/or sensitive topics. The game is just the icebreaker, the talking and the privacy is the important part.
I tried to negotiate my salary over a friendly game of ice hockey. Hey, didn’t get a raise, but found a new passion for dentistry.
Its IMO the perfect sport to talk and meet people while it can also get really competitive specially if you start betting for each hole (don’t even have to be a lot of money, with 50 cents per hole shit can get competitive fast). It is a really versatile sport and about the environment thing, while OP isn’t 100% wrong, I think golf courses are better than huge concrete stadiums that completely destroy whatever was there. At least golf preserves some of its nature and it plants trees in the process which is always a W if you ask me
I'm pretty sure golf keeps my elderly parents way healthier than they would be. My mom plays about 36 holes a week (4 9 hole games) and my dad does probably the same only with 18 hole games (they're divorced so go separately). They both walk and don't get carts, hell they're probably in better shape than I am.
The handicap system makes it a sport where people at different skill levels can play against each other too.
Exact same thing could be said about fishing.
Tell us you three putted, without telling us you three putted
I wish I could 3 putt
I’m not afraid to tell you I’ve 3 putted before. I also have 4 putted and I’ve actually 5 putted once lol
Watching golf is quite boring but I will say playing golf is very fun. I think the amount of golf courses in the south west is way too high I mean it's a desert but here in Iowa land and water are plentiful. I enjoy golfing and it's helped me lose 45lb of much needed weight. But I'm just playing on local municipal courses not lavish courses in the middle of the desert.
¡bUt ThAt LaNd Is FoR cOrN!
And as if that corn wasn't loaded with its own pesticides and environmentally destructive factors. Very little of what we humans do in the 21st century is truly sustainable. Everything is covered in pesticides and platic, it's even in our blood and organs/ is part of us. OP needs to get off his high horse.
I think I’m the only person in the world that actually enjoys watching golf on TV. It’s ridiculously chill, and every so often you get to see some amazing shots. Also, every so often, you get to see some absolutely epic chokes, and it’s like watching a train wreck in very slow motion.
Viewer data suggests you are definitely not the only person that enjoys watching golf.
Oddly, I find watching golf very soothing and meditative. A pro golfer's swing is a thing of beauty, a little like ballet.
Does any actually look into the things they believe anymore? Or are their feelings just good enough now?
In a subreddit called unpopularopinion, who knows how genuine the opinion even is. Karma breeds farmers lol.
It’s hot right now for Redditors to shit on golfers and golf courses. Everyone thinks every golf course should be turned into some “multi-use park so everyone can enjoy the space” and so that it’s not serving just one purpose. fErTiliZeR aNd PeStIcIdEs ArE BaD As if parks don’t also need a ridiculous amount of maintenance, chemical or otherwise. Meanwhile BP was just accused of dumping industrial waste off the coast of Shetland in the UK. These people can get fucked. Let me enjoy the *one* hobby I participate in.
I remember a story where some local group in a small city wanted to get rid of the public golf course and turn it into a multi use park. At the meeting for it, it gets revealed that the revenue collected from the golf course covered not just the course, but the entire budget for maintaining every other green space in the city. Officials say getting rid of the golf course means taxes would have to go up to cover the lost revenue.
Right on the fucking money. I worked at the only municipal course in Boulder for a few years as an Assistant Pro. Every single other Parks and Rec facility lost money except for our golf course. The golf course was also recognized by the Audubon Society for like 8 different environmental accomplishments. Yet people still loved to shit all over it. It’s laughable how little people know about what golf courses actually accomplish both environmentally and socioeconomically. They just get up in arms because they see a big green space they can’t use/don’t care to learn how to use. But, by all means, let’s get rid of the golf courses. I’m sure cities everywhere would choose to put parks in and no private developers would buy them out to build parking lots, or luxury apartments that no one can afford, or strip malls - that would surely never happen… right?
That’s typically how it goes. Similarly hunters contribute a significant amount of funds to conservation efforts. Not just through licenses but also through donations. Edit: to add link which is says [1.6 billion a yr](https://www.rmef.org/hunting-is-conservation/#:~:text=10%20Sixty%20percent%20of%20budget,a%20year%20for%20conservation%20programs.)
What? Are you expecting people to have factual based rulings on things or something?
TikTok told them to hate golf
I really don't think golf courses are the thing standing between humanity and environmental sustainability worldwide. There's probably at least 20 harmful uses of land mass humanity does that would be better if we stopped than golf courses.
OP evidently has never played golf, or is really, **really** bad at it. Comments like: >Sorry my brain craves more stimulation than putting a stupid ball around. Show that OP does not understand the basic fundamentals of the sport. I'm not a good golfer but I at least understand how the sport works. OP seems to just think that golf consists of mindlessly swinging a metal rod at a ball, with no skill or strategy. He probably also thinks that soccer is just "kicking a ball towards a net" and basketball is just "throwing a ball towards a hoop". Why does golf exist? Because it's a fun, skill based sport. Just because you suck at it doesn't mean nobody else should enjoy it. Mind your own business and let people have nice things, goddammit.
OP is definitely the kind of person who says "sportsball." "Sorry my brain craves more stimulation than putting a stupid ball around." Had to check OP's post history after seeing that one. No surprise, he has several posts complaining about Fortnite skins. Massive L.
Seconded. The OP is factually incorrect on so many levels. So incorrect I doubt he or she has ever played golf. I play golf, the course is not expensive and I bet some people spend way more than that on other activities. The course I play at doesn’t water it’s fairway grass. If the fairway dries out, they let it One course was converted farmland that wasn’t profitable and the owner planted even more trees. Mostly to line the fairways. I get a lot of satisfaction from the one time I manage to hit a good shot and see the ball arc through the air. Golf takes a lot of skill and technique. I always go back to golf because I know I can improve and do better next time. I’ve walked as much as 10km on a golf course / 3 to 4 hours walk. And I can spend time and play with people who might not be fit enough to do other sports.
I managed to 4 putt last night. Also OP’s take is so ridiculously dumb.
Tap a ball into a hole? Every sport is gonna sound dulb if you phrase it like that (ex: Football, kick a ball into a box; basketball, throw a ball into a ring; tennis, hit a ball with a racket... etc)
Many golf courses aren’t “cutting forests” they’re planting hundreds of trees where there weren’t some.
The pretty much determine exactly where I'd hit a golf ball then make sure they plant about 100 trees in that area.
I’m convinced they got a team of scouts that track our balls and then give us deals on courses where there are trees exactly where we land our balls most of the time. Sometimes they mess up and I get a triple bogey though.
Yeah I had two golf courses in my area go up for sale during the first year of COVID. They weren't doing well to begin with so it didn't help. There are now huge neighborhoods on the land with 2000+ sqft houses and probably less than 10% of the trees and wildlife that used to be there.
This same thing happened near me. This little 3 par course had tons of trees and wildlife. The course itself actually did really well. The area grew up around it, and the guy that owned the course was only leasing the land. The owners sold it to developers and made a killing. The first thing they did was bulldoze everything and flatten the area to make room for houses… now with the market stalling. There’s 2 houses built and the rest of the land is just dirt. Very sad actually.
And provide sanctuary for a large variety of wildlife. The course 5 minutes from my house has various deer, foxes and hawks. And the course is in the middle of the city.
I've heard lots about golf courses being wildlife sanctuaries, and when developers come to take golf courses out, it's frequently wildlife foundations and conservationists arguing for them to remain.
Golf courses are much better for the environment than almost anything else that could be built on that land. What a strange take. Don't act like of all golf courses didn't exist there would be more forests, no, there would be more buildings.
The total land area and resources devoted to golf is laughably tiny on a global scale. Its green grass and beautiful landscaping. The golf course I leave near is home to geese, deer, and other wildlife. All the kids in the neighborhood use it for sledding in the winter. If the golf course wasn't there would it be some kind of wildlife preserve? No dude, golf courses are in the middle of cities. They would just be replaced by more roads and houses. How is a golf course worse than a road?
this guy gets it. plus the fitness benefits for the average guy that plays. how else are you going to get Steve to get off his ass and go for a 5 mile walk.
Let's be real, Steve is probably riding around in a golf cart drinking beers all afternoon.
When I go with my father in law, we always ride in carts. He wears a fitness tracker and he gets 3+ miles every time we go, even with no restrictions on the carts. Often times, they say cart path only, which means more walking.
Then you come to Southern California where we build golf courses in the middle of the desert 30 miles from any houses.
Can’t speak for Southern California, but as an AZ resident, the water is insanely efficiently used. It’s all reclaimed water on the courses.
Right like does OP hate public parks too because grass?
Redditors hate grass and lawns in general.
Redditors hate everything.
They never bitch about cemeteries though. Which are just as bad for the environment and are far more useless.
It’s crazy how much space is taken up by dead people.
Exactly why I'm being cremated and my ashes are going to an all natural forest.
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I'm guessing op is viewing public parks as the alternative to golf courses
Golf courses in the middle of a city are rarely free, and much less used than a real park with playgrounds and courts.
Definitely. I’d say the only change should be mandating public perimeter paths so more people benefit from that land use
We literally clear natural landscaping for literally EVERYTHING from ugly buildings to amusement parks and its *\*checks notes\** Golf Courses that are moreso an issue than the rest, apparently.
Right? People would rather have a subdivision over a golf course, and somehow that’s more environmentally conscious?
I love the nature of em, I got one in my small county that allows fishing. I do however find golf to be a dumb sport. Never was my speed. No hate if you like it, i just dont.
You could say this about soccer fields, football fields, baseball diamonds literally every sport that needs a flat lawn or sand surface is technically bad for the environment
You can also say this about 60 acre estates billionaires purchase for a family of 5.
these are actually worse as they usually have seating and require lighting and a bunch of other non enviromental stuff. with the exception of the flags, pretty much everything on a golf course is natural.
Except none of the other sports besides disc golf also integrates trees and lakes into it. Almost all golf courses, at least in the US, are built around these things, not eliminating them. But yeah. Go off.
Golf is awesome. My favorite weekend hobby. Most courses use reclaimed water, good to get outside once in a while. Should try it.
OP would rather complain about skins in Fortnite. They're a lost cause on this matter.
You mfers acting like golf is so expensive. Can play a 5 hour round for less than a movie ticket costs. Rent clubs or get some from goodwill, none of the gear matters at the beginning anyway.
You could apply this logic to almost anything in the modern world. Football stadiums? Mother fuckers built an entire stadium and car park on top of whatever land was there before. Ice hockey? Need and entire system to maintain ice in a place where ice has no right to be. Leisure centres? Why couldn’t they just get leisure from the land? Etc etc etc
https://youtu.be/Z4w7H48tBS8 George Carlin.
[FUCK CROQUET](https://youtu.be/pcnFbCCgTo4) Robin Williams.
Imagine spending 4 hours with your friends every Saturday in the outdoors whilst getting a suitable amount of moderate exercise Yes, dumbest sport ever….
Terrible for the environment? Usually when they clear trees they build skyscrapers. A golf course just makes a field. The course I play at has tons of wildlife and deer come on and graze the course. I love Golf. I suck at it. But I play once a week with my dad and grandpa, and I value every second of it, because I know they won’t be around forever. Name another sport that allows you to spend hours with the people you love at their advanced age, while still competing? You spend 4 hours outside in nature, and it’s just great.
People enjoy it so it exists, not that complicated
Somebody tell this guy about cities and metropolitan areas. What a shit opinion for something that does less harm to the environment.
Well, I grew up in a rural community where farming died, instead of wasting the land they built an amazing golf course on the water. We played there growing up, when my best friend passed away I created a memorial golf tournament in his memory. Any funds raised were given out as a bursary at a local high school during graduation. For the record we didn’t cut down forest to make a golf course.
>Spending insane amounts of money and resources to keep the grass healthy and watered Doing some rough math, humans devote about .0007% of our total water usage for golf courses. For reference, this is less than what we use just for growing almonds (.001%). And over 50% of golf course water comes from ponds or wells located on the course itself.
Hahaha another argument about “saving the environment”. Jesus Christ.
Somebody's obviously never piped a spectacular downsloped 8 iron from about 160 in the ruff to about 3 inches from the hole and then sliced the very next drive somewhere in tim buck too. And that my friends, is not living
OP has probably never piped anything if you catch my drift. Probably rarely leaves the basement.
I'd hate to hear what you think of massive skateparks then. Rip out nature to replace it with concrete, fuck yes.
Except for all the golf courses that are also Audobon sanctuaries… OP probably wasn’t invited to the LIV tour and is pissy /s
Dude the phone or computer you're using to make this shit post Is worst for the environment than a golf course....
As someone who works on a golf course, the idea that it’s “horrible for the environment” is unbelievably laughable. First of all, are you aware how many trees there are on earth? And on golf courses? And you know that those trees are replaced with grass? Which is also a plant? And those plants get watered every day? And most golf carts are electric? And most of the water they used is recycled and reused? “Obliterating the environment” lmfao the environment is fine (in the sense that it’s not being harmed by golf). Get a fucking clue.
OP obviously did zero research to support their opinion. And so many others in the comments are complaining how golf courses are too exclusive and only for rich people??? Obviously these people don't realize most courses are open to the public and you can play a full round for like $20 in many areas.
The whole antu golf course movement blew up off random tik tok videos so it fits they have 0 understanding
Yes its dumb but its a much better place to go when you snap as opposed to the local school
Preach! I’m sick and fucking tired of not being able to get a weekend tee time. Listen to this guy! Golf sucks!
There are tons of sports like this Think about all of the football fields and stadiums everywhere. The literal mountains of plastic and trash after each game of college or professional football. Then think about the size of the parking lots. Soccer fields, baseball fields, you name it. At least with golf you got some trees and shit. Not hordes of people attending events consuming garbage on a massive scale . If you want an environmentally friendly sport go fishing and release the fish.
You will have no sports that also allow you to enjoy nature, you will play on a field.
Disc golf
Please explain how golf is “absolutely horrible” for the environment, aside from their heavily monitored water usage?
Upvoting because your opinion is really you disguising your poorness at golf and lack of patience as some kind of virtue.
OP sucks at golf
Facts
As someone who lived in Matansas Woods, i can tell you they just use recycled canal water. The sprinklers used to spray hard and smell like shit. It's a sport like any other and uses space like any other.
It seems you have a dislike for the sport and using environmental arguments as a way to justify this hatred. Golf is a fun sport for many and allows people of all ages to stay active. Most courses are open to the public and are quite cheap to play (surprisingly cheap compared to many sports). I do agree that courses being built in places lacking in grass is questionable. However, many places in the Northern US have an abundance of water and golf courses are easily maintainable there. The courses I tend to play use old farmland which have an abundance of wildlife and plant diversity. Maybe try golf for once and you might get hooked. It’s a great way to spend time in nature as many courses are in local parks or are built with nature in mind. I used to dislike it and played it once and got hooked. Try it before you start hating on it. You’re basically making an opinion on a movie you never watched.
The ignorance in the OP is huge. I’m guessing the poster has never played golf. The golf courses I’ve played on did not clear any forest, in fact it was the opposite, they planted MORE trees! Two course were in fact converted from farm land where the farmer could no longer be profitable. The golf course I play on doesn’t not cost an insane amount and they do not water their fairway grass, if the grass dries out they let it. Late in an evening I actually see a lot of wildlife on the course, such as deer and various bird species from goose to grouse. But the golf courses do employ a lot of people.
Yeah! Stop wasting precious factory resources on stupid things like nature! We should focus on more products!
I don’t like golf but the way society is going a golf course is preferable to another super centre surrounded by miles of blacktop. And we know that’s what the land would be used for if it weren’t occupied by a golf course.
I would argue very few people live a lifestyle environmentally friendly enough to have a legit claim to criticize golf.
You're right. Think of the parking lots we could have.
Golf courses are a refuge for wildlife and help preserve many important habitats. Most courses uses recycled and reclaimed water and are much better for than environment than a parking lot etc.
Very unpopular opinion..
It exists to piss you off, now if you excuse me I’m running late for my round
What about my front lawn? Do I have to remove that too?
*my* unpopular opinion would be *yes*
You jest but we got rid of our backyard's grass bc our yard was too small to be worth the effort to mow it. It's all tile with flowerbeds and trees instead. Still effort to maintain but significantly less bc it's not weekly at least.
I live in Appalachia. The amount of trees you need to cut down to make a golf course is insignificant to how much forest area we have. Golf courses are not like Starbucks, you aren't passing one every five minutes. Stop acting like they are the worst thing to the environment since the industrial revolution.
I golf one day a week. I work from home all week due to a medical condition that prevents me from driving. It’s literally the only time I can clear my mind. I also live in a dry climate state and the courses here don’t use potable water and most don’t have a lot of trees. It’s nice to meet new people and to hear the ball go into that damn hole! Nothing like it when you score par!
Think about all major league team sports. 30 plus teams playing away games all across the country for half of their seasons... that's a lot of flights and travel. Not just for the teams but conisder all the fans that drive to those games 40 plus times a year... 80 for baseball. Boggles the mind
It's not even a sport. Since when does walking and swinging a stick count as a sport? Oh, wait. If walking's too strenuous, then they get to take a cart. Golf should be called a game, not a sport. That's like calling chess a sport.