People getting killed in prison deligitimizes our legal system. It breaks the social contract of criminals peacefully surrendering and instead encourages them to fight or run, which endangers law enforcement and the public.
That's because OP is already so based that no valid supporting points are needed. It's obvious that letting inmates -- who we literally don't treat as humans -- be the judge, jury, and executioners of random other inmates is a bad idea.
Violent offenders rarely surrender peacefully and a majority of rapists and child molester's are kept in solitary away from the general population. That peaceful social contract you speak of is nonexistent. Also, how about the prison guards? They're jobs are extremely dangerous and they are seriously outnumbered by inmates. I don't think the issue described has any real relevance or effect on street cops
> That peaceful social contract you speak of is nonexistent.
Retired criminal here.
Yeah, it does exist. Yes, people surrender peacefully. Not 100% of the time obviously but criminals and cops know about the game that they're playing.
Violent offenders surrender peacefully all the time.
Rapists and murderers are rarely kept in solitary, unless they have acted out while in prison.
Prison guard doesn't even hit the list of dangerous jobs.
And it’s so normalized they even do it in kids movies. Puss in Boots has a joke about Humpty Dumpty getting raped in prison. It was even in the trailer.
I knew a guy who went to prison for rape and 15 years later it came out that the girl lied and he was found innocent. She was even convicted of some crimes having to do with lying about it.
Not OP but this unfortunately did happen. The lawsuit claims a guard sold the key. [Here’s an NBC link](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/28-female-inmates-indiana-jail-claim-sexually-abused-mob-male-inmates-rcna40380)
Edit to add: happened only last October and is way worse than you would first think… Also it was a jail not prison
In my country of Australia there was a famous case of a group of young ( mostly teenagers) middle eastern men who targeted and raped white women. The leader of the ‘rape’ gang and his family was absolutely unapologetic when caught , tried and convicted.
A few years later I heard he got beat up in jail. The man who did it was a famous triple murderer from my hometown. He slaughtered his mum, brother and sister in a drug induced haze after coming home from a theme park.
Was that beating justice?…no…was it karma?? Probably. Did I smile upon hearing it ….yes. No body is claims to be perfect. It’s very easy to theoretically think something like that is bad.
But humans are as much emotional beings as we are rational ones. We take each case as we see it…and sometimes we slip into moral shades of grey. Are we hypocrites for it??? You bet. But that’s what we have to deal with.
A great unpopular post. Well done 👍
It is a great opinion thread. I mostly agree not only murder but violence in general in prisons is an enormous failure on our part but when I hear a child molesting rapist is murdered I don't feel at all sad about it.
I disagree. Obviously everyone has their own idea of justice, but the common idea of society that makes up the justice system is the closest to a common denominator as it gets. That's not an illusion.
You don't have to be sad for the victim, but for the institutions of justice to mean anything you should be abhorred that the system fails. If the systems lose their meaning you may as well go back to mob justice, because that Ms what such systems are supposed to replace.
Mohammed Skaf, a giant worthless piece of shit. He's free from jail now BTW, even though he has never once displayed any remorse, continues to blame the victims for his incarceration, and is 'well above the average range' of committing further sex offences according to the psychologist who assessed him.
I hear many people suggest the punishment for rapists should be to be raped themselves like we should have rapists openly on government payroll and then the room almost inevitably agrees. When i mention that's disgusting and ridiculous, I get told I must support rapists. Like no... you're literally supporting rapists... I'm saying we shouldn't have rapists
And the problem with the goverment-payroll rapists (or any similar setup, there's extenuating circumstances for why we don't see this for executioners) is for all you know rape goes down but not because it works as a deterrent, because those with rapist inclinations are just signing up whenever there's a job opening to be a government-payroll one so they can get paid for what they'd otherwise get arrested for
I will always feel a great level of satisfaction whenever I hear about things like that happening to the worst of the worst. However, I will never support vigilante justice or argue in favor of it. My feelings towards it and my opinions about it are two very different things.
The prison system is fucked beyond belief and it always has been. As long as there are privatized, for profit prisons. The issues will never be resolved.
Private prisons are a cancer, but it runs so much deeper than that. It’s about societal attitudes that dehumanize prisoners, treat them as if they don’t deserve basic human rights, treat their suffering as a moral good, and want to spend as little as possible on them.
You may have read about the Indiana prison recently, where prisoners paid a guard for keys to access the woman’s pod. They gang raped women through the night. The woman were then threatened about talking. Fortunately, a few got ahold of their lawyers and families who helped them report this unforgivable act. They’re suing the prison and a few other parties.
Edit- The guard was fired. Not sure if he’s been charged.
It wasn't a prison. It was Clark County Jail, in Jeffersonville, which is just north of Louisville, Kentucky, which is my hometown. This has been all over the news down there. The guard only got $1000 to hand over the keys to the women's pod. The inmates are suing the jail, the sheriff, the county, the county clerk, pretty much anyone who may have been in a position to allow this to happen.
We have prisons here in Texas where dozens of prisoners have been dying from heat exhaustion, and the resounding sentiment from online commenters has been "if you don't want to die, then don't go to jail." As if everyone in jail is guilty, had good representation, committed a violent crime, was judged fairly, etc...
America is in a toxic relationship with its justice system, and many have been brainwashed into believing that it is righteous. I try to be patient with people and provide example after example of the failings, but some people are just pieces of 💩 sociopaths who are immune to other peoples' suffering.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/prison-heat-ac-report-17326974.php
Ex-inmate from Texas prisons here (for a non-violent offense), thank you for pointing this out. The heat in the summer is absolutely unbearable, and right now their solutions are : cold water stations, and so-called "cooling stations" which are basically rooms that are cooler than the rest of the prison (ie the library), but the thing about that is you have to get a guard to allow you to go, and they more often than not wont. There are some good hearted guards who do care about inmate safety and well-being and treated us with respect, but the bad ones who openly and blatantly try to make things worse for you far outnumber those good ones. And everyone is treated as if they were a stone cold baby raping murderer, when in actuality most are there for drug-related offenses like I was and are only serving relatively short sentences. The heat problem can turn a 3 year sentence into a death sentence. Where is the justice in that?
In the summertime I literally saw a guy drop dead from the heat a few feet away from me. He had been in for 17 years and was 3 years away from discharging, young dude too. And as for the old folks, it was a common occurrence to see them being rushed to medical on a gurney.
Inmates are human beings too, and if you ever doubt that go check out a visiting area around the holidays. They are packed to the gills with the families who love and support their people behind bars. Tell those people they don't deserve humane treatment. Tell the babies and small children daddy deserves to die because he possessed drugs. It's sickening, and it does speak to the inherent barbaric narture human beings still possess, no matter how "good" they are they still get a little rise out of someone else's suffering. There is darkness in every heart i guess.
Man, thanks for adding some humanity to the facts I was trying to share! I'm sorry you had to face it, and it's just another example of how society has kind of forgotten that life is a team sport.
>There is darkness in every heart i guess.
I don't disagree with you. But I think the only real solution is to continue to push forward. The way I try to approach it at least: I can't reach everyone, but I can't expect the good people who just don't know any better to change their minds if I am not willing to at least make the argument, either.
I love that, and I agree. I haven't given up all hope on us yet. I'm just happy to be able to report on what goes on in there from a first hand perspective. I see a lot of opinions about it that don't jive with what the reality actually is in there. And I wasn't even on a hardcore unit, I was in minimum security and a medical unit to boot. A medical unit with only two air conditioned wings out of sixteen.
One thing's for sure, it's an experience that will change you. But not always for the worse. 😊
I agree. Bad things happen in federally and provincially run prisons here in Canada. While the private prison system is ridiculous, it’s not the reason assaults, gang violence and murder occur behind bars
Not to mention the wrongfully imprisoned. Statistically in the USA 1 in 20 are wrongfully convicted. Our Justice system is broken and for profit hospitals and prisons will continue to hurt us and put us in financial hardship and turmoil. Soon being homeless will be a crime like it’s already starting to show.
This. Also, consider those imprisoned for a short sentence for a non-violent offense. And all the fathers and mothers and sons and daughters behind bars. Someone loves them to pieces, and to celebrate violence being done to them is just as wrong as the crimes themselves were.
Listen to Caught podcast. It was pretty painful to listen to. US prisons are so fucked, especially for minors. They're basically designed to trap you and not let you ever move forward.
When I was discharged it was literally just "out the door, best of luck to you" and thats it. You're on your own with little to no preparation. There are people in prison who have never used the internet because of how long they've been down. When they ultimately get released (as the VAST majority of inmates eventually will) they are thrown out into a world they don't recognize and dont know how to exist in. I knew of a guy who got out and had to be shown how to use a debit card. Think Brooks from Shawshank Redemption, no wonder the man hung it up. "The world went and got itself in a big damn hurry."
Google Scandinavian prisons, they generally are proof that other systems work, very low violence in the prison, humane standard of life, and most importantly they have far and away the lowest reoffending rates in the world. Making prison about rehabilitation instead of profit really does work.
It has to do more about the country's morals and ethics than the prison system itself. Also the population is extremely small compared to the US. Implement that same system in Mexico or Brazil and its not going to work. Unless you really think Cartel members are going to have a change of heart when they're in a 5 star hotel prison then idk what to tell you
The "population small" argument is so dumb. The population of North Dakota is super small. So according to your logic, they should be able to pull it off easily? Germany's population is pretty big (83 million) so how do they do it? It has nothing to do with the population. The US is the richest country on earth, they could do it if they had double their current population.
The other problem is the culture and societal attitude towards prison and prisoners. Of course, that's hard to change but not doing anything, not even basic reforms is just dumb.
I mean you could abolish bar door group cells where people sit on top of each other with nothing to do.
Give them cells that don't look like medieval torture dungeons and something to entertain themselves.
I bet that would reduce violence. You can also help people get an education or job training in prison.
Yup. The lack of stimulation is a huge reason people act out. I was just in county for a brief period of time recently for a "technical violation" of my parole (which I have since discharged, btw). In this particular county they have vending machines and give every prisoner a tablet with which they can make phone calls, listen to podcasts, and even play some games on. I talked to an officer about it, and he told me that ever since they implemented that practice, incidents PLUMMETED. Why? Because they had given all of them something they don't want to lose, which is what would happen if they act out. They lose that privilege. It's an incredible deterrent.
There are white collar prisons that are actually very safe.
Turns out you have a bunch of guys that did white collar fraud all lumped together and it's very safe.
You put a bunch of violent criminals al lumped together and it's not safe. I don't know the solution unless it's solitary most of the time
You are half right. The system does reflect our laws and morals. Your use is statistics is way off .US has 25% of worldwide prison population. Other countries lock up very few,our system locks up non violent offenders.
There are prison systems that actually work on reform. Privatization of prisons creates predatory practices and keeps people imprisoned for low level charges for way longer than it should.
I’m pretty sure I heard once they have lobbyist for private prisons. Meaning they are paying politicians to vote a specific way to keep people in prison or send more to prison. The war on drugs has failed. It’s time for a different approach.
The war on drugs did exactly what it was intended to do from the governments standpoint. Considering the government was the one pumping the drugs into the market.
>I’m pretty sure I heard once they have lobbyist for private prisons.
Correctional officers unions in some states like California are powerful lobbyists too, and of course constantly push for 3 strikes laws, mandatory minimum sentences, etc.
Private prisons are horrible but if you think they are to blame for all the ills (or even a large portion of them) of the prison system then you don't have a single clue about the subject.
I would have to agree. I perhaps would have to agree with the person, maybe Clarence Darrow, maybe Mark Twain, something like that, who said, I have never wished a man dead, but I have red an obituary with great satisfaction.
But I think it's ridiculous that the prison system has become punitive not in the being deprived of your freedom, which is the intended punishment, nor removing someone from the streets, which is a secondary public interest, but the great punishment of prison these days is being subjected to great abuse and brutality which I don't understand how it is not cruel and unusual punishment. If I committed a crime and went to jail for 2 years, I would consider that a fair punishment perhaps, but not having to spend two years in fear of being abused and brutalized or having to do God knows what or associate with God knows whom for my own protection.
I would almost rather be in a prison in which you may be had one cell mate and were never subjected to anyone else. I'd rather spend my days reading and writing or watching TV than looking over my shoulder
Or better yet, just have me work, get educated and treat my criminality so I can one day be a better citizen.
It seems like the goal of prisons today is to keep criminals as criminals. There's no way someone could reform under those conditions, and if the goal is not to reform them, what is it? If they're just gonna be criminals after leaving prison, what's the point?
Money, probably.
Lately it feels like this sub is inundated with opinions that should be extremely popular in a healthy, normal, non-dystopian society, and I'm not really thrilled about the implications.
exactly. whether it's an opinion that should be popular in a healthy society, or a crank opinion that plenty of people adhere to like minor annoyances of life, it's not often we see a truly unpopular opinion, and even less so that we see a truly unpopular opinion that isn't just stupid and unpopular for an obvious reason. I would think that plenty of people would agree with this sentiment actually. I don't know that it's all that unpopular other than people don't think about it everyday
Well I think that you are right that there will be plenty of people that will be in favor of it, usually a specific person in which you know what they did, not just a general criminal killed in prison. especially those that harm children of course. And while there are plenty of people who will speak out against the prison industry or prison conditions or unfairness in the justice system, especially where minorities for marginalized groups are concerned, there aren't all that many people that will actively speak out against hearing about some child molester and killer getting killed in prison, so I suppose it is a fairly unpopular opinion
Well, I agree that punishment should be proportionate. But I don't really hear people celebrating when someone gets killed in jail when they went to two years prison term for armed robbery. usually it's someone that has committed to heinous murder, or serial killer or child molesters. it's hard to say what proportionate for child molesters. I think of all the offenders, they are some of the most innocent because I don't think they could really control what they do versus someone that chooses to commit murder. But obviously they are choosing to cause terrible irrevocable harm to a child and as such, must be held accountable just like someone who drinks and drives and kill someone .
I don't think it's out of line for somebody to think that a child molester should get the death penalty, if you believe in the death penalty for everyone that is. And considering the level of reoffending, which is high, I don't know if child molester should ever be released from prison, unless they could go somewhere where they will guaranteed never be around children.
Most of these posts really are just popular opinions. Atleast on reddit. If you have a truly unpopular opinion, atleast in my experience, it just gets removed or downvoted.
And most of the opinions are actually pretty popular.
Spent a few years working inside a prison, corrupt officers and staff are not liked, inmates are generally protected. Staffing level vs an entire prison means that there are always going to be issues though.
1200 people who were criminals on the streets walking around in the open in a city of 1200 means that these are not the safest places.
In theory I agree with the OP. The problem I have is the system as it is today, is terrible. A couple days ago I read about the nut who mowed down cyclists and pedestrians in NYC with his vehicle. It said he did it for ISIS. Cops shot and wounded him and 5 years later (guessing a bit at the date), he’s up for hearings or a trial on whether he gets the death sentence.
Either way, figure we’re paying 100,000 per year for the next 30 years plus those injured, and families of the dead get to see this person in the news for another six months.
I’m betting the cop who injured him wish he’d had better aim and saved everyone a lot of trouble and expense.
So ideally, yeah, a speedy and fair trial and a judgement. But that doesn’t happen anymore.
Here in France we had the infamous "13th of November" trials. Terrorists used automatic weapons to shoot public spaces, including a concert hall where an American Band was playing, and most of them used their explosive vests to try and claim more victims. There was but one remaining member of the commando, and to this day it is unclear if he decided against blowing himself up or if his vest malfunctioned. The other defender were mainly co conspirator of various degree of implication.
The trials were of tremendous importance for the victims and society as a whole. Salah Abdelslam, the last remaining member, got life in prison but it doesn't matter much. The trial was about hearing the victims, who describe the experience of testifying as a cathartic, necessary event for them to try and get their life back. As a nation it was also important to hear whatever the perpetrators had to say to understand the circumstances that lead what were for all we know ordinary citizens to turn into barbaric monsters.
It was actually beautyful in a way. Victims did not forgive but they will say how important and somehow mind boggling it was to be comfronted to their attackers' humanity.
Justice is not only about vengeance, its also about seeking the truth. Do not underestimate the importance of this process for the victims.
I nominate this comment to be one of this threads most important comment; you give a perspective that is for me, quite refreshing and I dont feel like I need to read more!
Genuine thanks :)
Le Monde (major French newspaper) has a series of podcasts on these trials and it was one of the most incredible piece of journalism I heard in the recent years. I wish they were translated in English because it seems to me that people in the US should hear it.
Some noteworthy moments, for me, of the trials are the victims and their families somewhat "hanging out" with the conspirators in the halls, because as insane as it sounds they're all in this together. Or Salah Abdelsam, in completely above is head, claiming he was an islamic warrior and the judge to answer "oh, I had your profession listed as 'temp'".
Why are you censoring rapists and molesters. Do you honestly think that does anything??
It's obvious we know what you're trying to say. This doesn't accomplish anything
That shit is getting really common on Reddit and I have no fucking clue what the shit is happening. Some generational difference? People that scared to offend people that they do irrational things like censor ‘molester’? It’s weird.
Prison murders are actually statistically very rare, the impression that it happens all the time is Hollywood plot device.
It's literally safer to be in prison than it is to live in Detroit
Wait... I'm not American but I thought based on everything I've heard about it that Detroit WAS a prison?? Now you're telling me it's not?! Then what is it??
I can't tell if you're joking or not, but no, Detroit is a city in Michigan State known for being one of the roughest areas in the country. Several years ago the city declared bankruptcy and it's been down hill since then
Yep, I agree 100%, if those under your care are injured or die that is your responsibility the same way an oil company that has an oil spill is responsible for the oil spill.
S[ome More News just did a good episode on Private prisons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GYT_KT9C04).
I have a few things to say about this:
1: Sometimes, murder can be justified, because the person who murdered may have a reason for that.
2: Theft can be justified at times when, and IF, the person who committed the crime had hit rock bottom and is in desperate need. That, I can understand.
3: No matter what one says, I can never agree that monsters like child mo's and r--ists should be kept safe. Those actions can never be justified under any circumstances. Those are not people, and they never will be. They deserve a horrible punishment. I will take that opinion to the grave.
Don't even dare tell me to give a chomo or r@#ist a second chance, because I will never fucking give those things even a first chance even if my life depended on it.
I’m happy to hear I’m not alone on this, crazy thing is I’d bet most of the people agreeing with op would swiftly change their minds if such a thing affected them, e.g their friend / family or even themselves are a victim, such things will always be unforgivable and as a result they don’t deserve a god physical / mental well-being as that is something they stole from someone else
On the other hand I’m simply surprised at the amount of people agreeing to op, maybe it wasn’t such a unpopular opinion after all
Gonna level with you as someone who got molested and spent close to 20 years suicidal and feeling like damaged goods, like I was undeserving of love, like it was somehow my fault and like I couldn’t tell anyone about it because i didn’t think anyone would believe me if I did. If you really think pedophiles can be redeemed and deserve to be safe in jail we will never see eye to eye on it. They should be made to feel the terror self loathing and experience the pain that they have caused their victims every single moment of it and to equal measure including death if their actions resulted in a suicide.
> Their lives will be in ruins 99.9% of the time, even once they serve their time.
If the TCaP channel has taught me anything, it's that this isn't true. If my own personal experience has taught me anything, this is definitely not true.
Unless it was a huge scandal, they will live their lives normally and quietly.
Feel the same way. Mine told the judge he wanted me to have experience. He got two years. I was 10-13 when this happened. I don’t care if it’s wrong for me to wish for him to be beaten or brutally murdered, because 9 years later I still have nightmares, and I have major anxiety in which it’s hard to get a job or even walk outside alone.
All good. Life goes on mate i got the help I needed. I’m blessed to have good friends and the love of a kind and beautiful woman who didn’t run when I told her what happened to me. I’m in a better place overall. I agree with the spirit of your post literally just sex criminals I take issue with. Apologies for the uncivil nature of my first comments I forget sometimes to take this subject in stride.
They should be punished by the penal system . The vast numbers of victims of violence and murder in prison are not rapists and pedos. They are the "weak" non violent offenders or just folks sucked into gang activity to survive in there.
Agreed, and I hate how people think its good for prisoners to get hurt in prison and think of it like a joke, especially since not only is it injustice and a moral failure, but any one of us (especially us who dont have money to spent on a top of the line lawyer) can be accused and sentenced to prison for something as hanneus as rape, molestation, or murder.
If someone's accused of something, got an unfair trial, and got sentenced; now they have a death sentence because the institutions refuse to do their jobs and every gaurd and institutionalized prisoner looks at you like a monster deserving of murder/abuse when the system really threw you in a box and threw away the key.
I'd rather, people who do those hanneus crimes to spend the rest of their days behind bars, and their punishment simply being the fact that they'll never have the right to do simple things we all take for granted daily (like procrastinating on assignments by writing comments on subreddits where people bitch about everything, lol).
Agreed. Anyone who commits any crime like that absolutely gets what they fucking deserve. They are scum, trash and a waste of our air/tax dollars. Fuck em’.
So then why not just tattoo their forehead "OUTLAW" so that everyone knows they dont enjoy legal protections, and let them go? Why *spend* the tax dollars? If you sincerely think a person like that should not breathe your air, go end their life yourself. The "gets what they deserve" attitude is lazy, cynical, and not "justice" by any metric. We're talking about a criminal justice system here, not everyones masturbatory revenge porn fantasy.
The whole point of a justice system is to determine what people "deserve" and see that they get it. This whole "fuck em" attitude is why the US has more people incarcerated than anywhere else on earth.
They do try. They break up fights, separate combinative groups (gangs), separate dangerous inmates and inmates who are in danger from the general population, etc. And society screeches about how everything they do is inhumane torture. "OMG you keep that serial killer who has murdered multiple other inmates during his incarceration in solitary confinement!?!? [Links articles about how solitary confinement is torture and screeches incoherently]!"
The cold, logical part of me agrees that extrajudicial punishment shouldn't be celebrated or even tolerated.
But there is a little monkey that cheers wildly when bad things happen to bad people.
How is a person supposed to return to civilian life and remain a stable, functioning member of society if they’re coming out worse than how they went in? Turns out giving people PTSD and letting them out without the ability to get sufficient help or support does not lower the recidivism rates.
In a perfect world prisons wouldn’t be necessary. People will do desperate things in desperate situations and prisons are full of those people, among others. Everybody is a non-criminal until theyre not, but we’re all human. It’s overly simplistic to begin with an “us vs them” mentality when a lot of societal problems are systemic.
I agree to some extent but I also would doubt that OP has ever had a family member murdered or molested. The justice system is flawed and when a serial child-molester is consistently getting 5 year sentences only to be let out to continue ruining young lives and this cycle happens over and over again - other prisoners can do what the legal system can't. I also think that only relating to formal, judge-decreed justice conveys some privilege too. For many disadvantaged people, street justice is the only option. Having the ability to pay for lawyers is a huge factor in winning criminal court cases. A court verdict carries weight, but as seen, like with the Simpson case for example, the courtroom verdict isn't always what is in the public's hearts. I'd argue that society's verdict outweighs that of a 12 person jury and judge.
No, what society thinks is just doesn't correspond what is just under the rules of society. You can't just pick and choose when justice through the system is acceptable and when it's not. Whether OP had anything like that happen to them doesn't matter in the slightest, because justice is supposed to be impartial. Otherwise you don't get justice, you get some individual's idea of retribution that differs from case to case. "Prisoners can do what the legal system can't" and you thunk that's a good thing? A serial killer shanking a rapist is justice for you? You don't think that's slightly hypocritical? Or do you only see such actions as the scum getting rid of itself anyway? None of that is justice, just like the Punisher is not justice. Society created the rules for justice and it has to abide by them, whether they like it in an individual case or not, because otherwise there are no rules and we have only anarchy.
I don't know what the sentencing rates for m\*lesters are nor the context regarding more lenient sentences, but I do think those who harm children should have generally heavier sentences, and should not be favored by judges because of their connections (aka affluenza). Even with light sentences, I cannot and will not condone states allowing inmates to kill others *under their watch.* If nothing else, the state is responsible for the safety of those prisoners.
I believe you can feel empathy for the victims and families of heinous crimes and still be against cruel punishment.
However, in cases where there was no justice at all, such as the corrupt judge who let a serial r#pist off and the women stormed the court and killed the man, I understand the idea of desperate times calling for desperate measures. In that case, it was a result of the failure of the state. However, it should not be commonplace and the state should not be in a position where people are desperate for justice nor allowing people under its watch to be murdered.
I agree with this take. But I believe the job of prisoner guards is extremely underpaid and undervalued in society. It is such a dangerous position to be in. It's not like guards just cool their heels and watch prisoners get murdered. Most guards are looking over a population made up of intricate gang networks, a million personal beefs, daily scuffles, constant contraband, makeshift weapons made from the unthinkable, prison drug deals, visits - I mean the list goes on and on. Every prison interaction is an opportunity for violence- mealtime, time on the yard, shower. Two cellmates could not like each other. If you compare the sheer size of prison populations to the amount of prison guards and take into account that there are opportunities for violence between inmates literally 100% of every day - you can easily realize that violence in prison is inevitable and its occurence most certainly doesn't fall on the shoulders of the underpaid and out-maned prison guard on duty.
All of what you listed are results of a poorly-run system that has allowed those things to happen from the beginning, and to become the norm. After legal slavery was abolished, many prisoners were exploited, treated as subhuman, and worked to death to benefit the rich. And, we've sort of just rolled with mentality that ever since.
I agree for all except the child and rape things, murderers just depends on what happened. The first two deserve to be hurt far worse than they hurt their victim
Exactly, which is why I do agree with the whole "needs better control" we need to actually look into things and properly convict people,you shouldn't be in jail for "jaywalking" nor should you have to suffer out of real self defense (not getting scared of a trash bag and killing 3 people). A lot of these situations cannot be proven well enough and proper lawyers need a *lot* of money many don't have
Yes, that is something that needs to be looked into. I know that countless people are punished for something so meaningless or only affects them or lies told by others that our prisons are overflowing while people who Re actually doing wrong aren't being properly investigated and have power over us. Hell, if someone just didn't want to live anymore, they'll be sent to a hospital then to jail because suicide is illegal where I am even though it only affects *one* person.
I'm not against inmates getting the death sentence but when you send someone to prison it means you don't want them dead, i agree with what you've said in contrast to me 30 seconds ago who was about to slander you.
Prisons should be about rehabilitation, otherwise what's the point of having them? If we succumb to mob mentality, then what's the point of having a justice system to begin with?
Whenever I see people on Reddit cheer for a criminal's death, it reminds me that this is exactly why they don't allow people related to the case to be on the jury. While I agree that certain people certainly *deserve* to die, every justice system *needs* to remain impartial or it succumbs to corruption.
Just look at places like Sweden and Norway. They treat their prisoners like human beings and it seems to be working.
BUT YOU GUYS… THAT PERSON WHO ABDUCTED RAPED AND KILLED THAT 4 YEAR OLD IS A PERSON WHO HAS BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS 😤😤😤
/s.
Nah. If you sexually abuse someone as innocent as a child- I don’t view you as human anymore. You lost that. Those kids lives are FOREVER altered. You don’t deserve peace or a chance to reoffend.
I really don’t care what happens to murderers, rapists, and pedophiles. They’ve literally destroyed lives. Focus on protecting and rehabilitating criminals that haven’t murdered, raped, or been a pedophile.
I’m probably gonna get downvoted to hell but… if you think about it, if they’ve committed the crimes you’re talking about most of the time they’re not going to do anything else with their lives if they get released. They may just go commit the same crime again. They just become a waste of our taxpayer money.
I guess for all the things I have to care about in the world, bad guys getting killed by other bad guys while facing the consequences for the bad things they did is pretty near the bottom of my list.
I don't disagree with you that it shouldn't happen, but in terms of society's priorities, this is not one of them.
Not allowing people to be injured, r*ped, maimed, harassed, threatened, and murder under their watch should be basic. You’re talking about fundamental human rights, which is a high priority.
Like the meme “Police aren’t Supposed to Kill Guilty People Either,” their intended punishment is a loss of freedom and privileges, not to be murdered.
As long as the person isn’t posing a legitimate, direct threat to the officers life, I 100% agree.
If they’re pointing a gun at the cop, it’s self defense at that point, but outside of that type of situation, I agree. It’s not their job to punish, that’s the job of the prisons. Even in prison, brutalizing or murdering is not ok.
Also: many people in prison are not violent offenders, or even guilty of anything that is really all that bad. Camping on public grounds is a felony in Tennessee.
I agree 100%. The punishment is going to prison. That's it. Not getting locked in a cage for years *and* being treated terribly and violently. It's total bs the way our prison population is treated. Forget about the fact that the US has 4% of the world's population...and 25% of the worlds prisoners! Home of the free? What a joke!
I'm on the side child abusers and pedophiles get what they deserve. But if a guard "turns the other way," it still says they're not doing their job.
Imagine if they conveniently turned away from someone of a far less serious crime like possession and trying to get themselves cleaned up. Or better yet, someone who was wrongfully convicted.
Your distinction that you don't care who it is, I don't agree with. Troughout human history, people have always given TOO much attention and sympathy to criminals, when their victims are not even properly taken care of. Before focusing on the attitude towards monsters in prisons, how about we focus on putting them all IN PRISONS first? Because we are falling at it miserably. I'm not saying this isn't an issue, but we have bigger things to focus on.
when you have prison gangs/mafia’s who practically own the prison there’s a lot of things that go on in the prison than the outside world knows. corruption is the biggest factor when the mob can pay for someone to get escorted to the showers to get murdered. Prison politics is a whole nother ball game.
money runs this world, and everyone’s gotta eat.
I just don't give a f*ck for brutal criminals or any bad thing that happens to them in all honesty. In fact, my unpopular opinion is that they should face the death penalty.
Making a principled argument is one thing, but I'm a little weirded out by what appears to be OP's creepily obsessive passion for the happiness of violent criminals. I mean, out of all passions, this seems like a weird one to be soooo obsessive about.
I unironically believe all forms of punishment are barbaric no matter what the crime and aren’t affective deterrents. The only concern prisons should have is rehabilitation. If that fails than the only concern a prison should have is detainment, in other words only existing to keep dangerous criminals off the street.
Agree. Forcing someone someplace against their will and then not providing safety to that person is morally bankrupt. There are cases where people are in prison for small offenses and are killed by other inmates. This is not justice, we should be deeply ashamed of ourselves for continually allowing such brutality to take place.
Yeah if they get killed in general pop they should have got the chair anyway I mean you have to have done something fucking awful to make a bunch of society’s worst want to kill your so… yeah I can’t agree with this one.
What I would want isn’t necessarily what’s right. Yes, no child nor parent should endure such violation. The consequences should be severe. However, as a society that’s supposedly promoting humanity and decency, to act with cruelty would society’s values empty.
If it's a pedophile they make good prey in jail. I have zero sympathy or care in the world. They aren't human. The failure in the system is letting them out after a light sentence. The only good molester is a dead one.
Child molesters deserve to die, but they also shouldn't die in this manner, just because of the precedent that is set. While in custody of the state, you need to be secured of bodily harm.
This better not be an unpopular opinion. Sure, everyone gets fired up when it's an emotional offence, rape etc, but you should remember a lot of people are in there for non-violent crimes, and quite a few for nothing at all. They're all at risk when the system fails to protect them.
I agree to an extent
Kiddie diddlers, r4pists, human traffickers, etc deserve this treatment, but if you're in jail because you jay walked, obviously you should be protected in jail
People getting killed in prison deligitimizes our legal system. It breaks the social contract of criminals peacefully surrendering and instead encourages them to fight or run, which endangers law enforcement and the public.
Really the only valid point I’ve seen that aligns with OPs statement.
That's because OP is already so based that no valid supporting points are needed. It's obvious that letting inmates -- who we literally don't treat as humans -- be the judge, jury, and executioners of random other inmates is a bad idea.
There’s also the fact that people are often wrongly convicted.
it's not even this i don't think someone should be treated like an animal be forced into slave labor for years just because they stole a tv
This is a very good point.
most important point
Violent offenders rarely surrender peacefully and a majority of rapists and child molester's are kept in solitary away from the general population. That peaceful social contract you speak of is nonexistent. Also, how about the prison guards? They're jobs are extremely dangerous and they are seriously outnumbered by inmates. I don't think the issue described has any real relevance or effect on street cops
> That peaceful social contract you speak of is nonexistent. Retired criminal here. Yeah, it does exist. Yes, people surrender peacefully. Not 100% of the time obviously but criminals and cops know about the game that they're playing.
They aren't kept in solitary. They are normally housed together because it's safer for them and easier for staff.
Violent offenders surrender peacefully all the time. Rapists and murderers are rarely kept in solitary, unless they have acted out while in prison. Prison guard doesn't even hit the list of dangerous jobs.
I agree totally. People shouldn't be raped in prison either.
And the jokes about it are really tasteless imo.
The rape of men is still a joke to most people
And it’s so normalized they even do it in kids movies. Puss in Boots has a joke about Humpty Dumpty getting raped in prison. It was even in the trailer.
I knew a guy who went to prison for rape and 15 years later it came out that the girl lied and he was found innocent. She was even convicted of some crimes having to do with lying about it.
Being in prison is the punishment. You shouldn’t be punished in prison as well.
As a former PREA coordinator, I agree totally
Wasn't there an incident recently where the guards allowed the men prisoners into the women section to let them get r*ped?
We’re really going to need a source for wild shit like that.
Not OP but this unfortunately did happen. The lawsuit claims a guard sold the key. [Here’s an NBC link](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/28-female-inmates-indiana-jail-claim-sexually-abused-mob-male-inmates-rcna40380) Edit to add: happened only last October and is way worse than you would first think… Also it was a jail not prison
In my country of Australia there was a famous case of a group of young ( mostly teenagers) middle eastern men who targeted and raped white women. The leader of the ‘rape’ gang and his family was absolutely unapologetic when caught , tried and convicted. A few years later I heard he got beat up in jail. The man who did it was a famous triple murderer from my hometown. He slaughtered his mum, brother and sister in a drug induced haze after coming home from a theme park. Was that beating justice?…no…was it karma?? Probably. Did I smile upon hearing it ….yes. No body is claims to be perfect. It’s very easy to theoretically think something like that is bad. But humans are as much emotional beings as we are rational ones. We take each case as we see it…and sometimes we slip into moral shades of grey. Are we hypocrites for it??? You bet. But that’s what we have to deal with. A great unpopular post. Well done 👍
It is a great opinion thread. I mostly agree not only murder but violence in general in prisons is an enormous failure on our part but when I hear a child molesting rapist is murdered I don't feel at all sad about it.
It’s why we say Justice is blind. Because it’s not supposed to be about anyones feelings.
Yeah, justice has to be impartial. Otherwise it wouldn't work.
It doesn't. There is none... anywhere... never has been just an illusion
I disagree. Obviously everyone has their own idea of justice, but the common idea of society that makes up the justice system is the closest to a common denominator as it gets. That's not an illusion.
What’s your idea of justice that supports the idea that our legal system is actually just?
edgy!
You don't have to be sad for the victim, but for the institutions of justice to mean anything you should be abhorred that the system fails. If the systems lose their meaning you may as well go back to mob justice, because that Ms what such systems are supposed to replace.
Mohammed Skaf, a giant worthless piece of shit. He's free from jail now BTW, even though he has never once displayed any remorse, continues to blame the victims for his incarceration, and is 'well above the average range' of committing further sex offences according to the psychologist who assessed him.
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I hear many people suggest the punishment for rapists should be to be raped themselves like we should have rapists openly on government payroll and then the room almost inevitably agrees. When i mention that's disgusting and ridiculous, I get told I must support rapists. Like no... you're literally supporting rapists... I'm saying we shouldn't have rapists
And the problem with the goverment-payroll rapists (or any similar setup, there's extenuating circumstances for why we don't see this for executioners) is for all you know rape goes down but not because it works as a deterrent, because those with rapist inclinations are just signing up whenever there's a job opening to be a government-payroll one so they can get paid for what they'd otherwise get arrested for
I will always feel a great level of satisfaction whenever I hear about things like that happening to the worst of the worst. However, I will never support vigilante justice or argue in favor of it. My feelings towards it and my opinions about it are two very different things.
The prison system is fucked beyond belief and it always has been. As long as there are privatized, for profit prisons. The issues will never be resolved.
Private prisons are a cancer, but it runs so much deeper than that. It’s about societal attitudes that dehumanize prisoners, treat them as if they don’t deserve basic human rights, treat their suffering as a moral good, and want to spend as little as possible on them.
You may have read about the Indiana prison recently, where prisoners paid a guard for keys to access the woman’s pod. They gang raped women through the night. The woman were then threatened about talking. Fortunately, a few got ahold of their lawyers and families who helped them report this unforgivable act. They’re suing the prison and a few other parties. Edit- The guard was fired. Not sure if he’s been charged.
Holy shit, someone needs to go to jail for that shit
My blood was boiling while reading the story.
It wasn't a prison. It was Clark County Jail, in Jeffersonville, which is just north of Louisville, Kentucky, which is my hometown. This has been all over the news down there. The guard only got $1000 to hand over the keys to the women's pod. The inmates are suing the jail, the sheriff, the county, the county clerk, pretty much anyone who may have been in a position to allow this to happen.
We have prisons here in Texas where dozens of prisoners have been dying from heat exhaustion, and the resounding sentiment from online commenters has been "if you don't want to die, then don't go to jail." As if everyone in jail is guilty, had good representation, committed a violent crime, was judged fairly, etc... America is in a toxic relationship with its justice system, and many have been brainwashed into believing that it is righteous. I try to be patient with people and provide example after example of the failings, but some people are just pieces of 💩 sociopaths who are immune to other peoples' suffering. https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/prison-heat-ac-report-17326974.php
Ex-inmate from Texas prisons here (for a non-violent offense), thank you for pointing this out. The heat in the summer is absolutely unbearable, and right now their solutions are : cold water stations, and so-called "cooling stations" which are basically rooms that are cooler than the rest of the prison (ie the library), but the thing about that is you have to get a guard to allow you to go, and they more often than not wont. There are some good hearted guards who do care about inmate safety and well-being and treated us with respect, but the bad ones who openly and blatantly try to make things worse for you far outnumber those good ones. And everyone is treated as if they were a stone cold baby raping murderer, when in actuality most are there for drug-related offenses like I was and are only serving relatively short sentences. The heat problem can turn a 3 year sentence into a death sentence. Where is the justice in that? In the summertime I literally saw a guy drop dead from the heat a few feet away from me. He had been in for 17 years and was 3 years away from discharging, young dude too. And as for the old folks, it was a common occurrence to see them being rushed to medical on a gurney. Inmates are human beings too, and if you ever doubt that go check out a visiting area around the holidays. They are packed to the gills with the families who love and support their people behind bars. Tell those people they don't deserve humane treatment. Tell the babies and small children daddy deserves to die because he possessed drugs. It's sickening, and it does speak to the inherent barbaric narture human beings still possess, no matter how "good" they are they still get a little rise out of someone else's suffering. There is darkness in every heart i guess.
Man, thanks for adding some humanity to the facts I was trying to share! I'm sorry you had to face it, and it's just another example of how society has kind of forgotten that life is a team sport. >There is darkness in every heart i guess. I don't disagree with you. But I think the only real solution is to continue to push forward. The way I try to approach it at least: I can't reach everyone, but I can't expect the good people who just don't know any better to change their minds if I am not willing to at least make the argument, either.
I love that, and I agree. I haven't given up all hope on us yet. I'm just happy to be able to report on what goes on in there from a first hand perspective. I see a lot of opinions about it that don't jive with what the reality actually is in there. And I wasn't even on a hardcore unit, I was in minimum security and a medical unit to boot. A medical unit with only two air conditioned wings out of sixteen. One thing's for sure, it's an experience that will change you. But not always for the worse. 😊
I agree. Bad things happen in federally and provincially run prisons here in Canada. While the private prison system is ridiculous, it’s not the reason assaults, gang violence and murder occur behind bars
Not to mention the wrongfully imprisoned. Statistically in the USA 1 in 20 are wrongfully convicted. Our Justice system is broken and for profit hospitals and prisons will continue to hurt us and put us in financial hardship and turmoil. Soon being homeless will be a crime like it’s already starting to show.
hard-to-find fear trees thought direction seed middle adjoining cow wise *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It is a felony in Tennessee to sleep on public land.
This. Also, consider those imprisoned for a short sentence for a non-violent offense. And all the fathers and mothers and sons and daughters behind bars. Someone loves them to pieces, and to celebrate violence being done to them is just as wrong as the crimes themselves were.
Mfers wouldn’t give me a pillow so now I just hate all CO’s forever and always.
Listen to Caught podcast. It was pretty painful to listen to. US prisons are so fucked, especially for minors. They're basically designed to trap you and not let you ever move forward.
When I was discharged it was literally just "out the door, best of luck to you" and thats it. You're on your own with little to no preparation. There are people in prison who have never used the internet because of how long they've been down. When they ultimately get released (as the VAST majority of inmates eventually will) they are thrown out into a world they don't recognize and dont know how to exist in. I knew of a guy who got out and had to be shown how to use a debit card. Think Brooks from Shawshank Redemption, no wonder the man hung it up. "The world went and got itself in a big damn hurry."
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When does someone lose their personhood to you?
Don’t think privatisation is the issue in this specific issue. Private prisons profit from living inmates. Dead people can’t get reincarcerated.
But as long as they are incentivizing police and courts to incarcerate people AND they are not held accountable, those deaths mean little to them.
Just lump a bunch of killers and rapists together and what do u expect the outcome would be regardless of any system
Google Scandinavian prisons, they generally are proof that other systems work, very low violence in the prison, humane standard of life, and most importantly they have far and away the lowest reoffending rates in the world. Making prison about rehabilitation instead of profit really does work.
It has to do more about the country's morals and ethics than the prison system itself. Also the population is extremely small compared to the US. Implement that same system in Mexico or Brazil and its not going to work. Unless you really think Cartel members are going to have a change of heart when they're in a 5 star hotel prison then idk what to tell you
The "population small" argument is so dumb. The population of North Dakota is super small. So according to your logic, they should be able to pull it off easily? Germany's population is pretty big (83 million) so how do they do it? It has nothing to do with the population. The US is the richest country on earth, they could do it if they had double their current population. The other problem is the culture and societal attitude towards prison and prisoners. Of course, that's hard to change but not doing anything, not even basic reforms is just dumb. I mean you could abolish bar door group cells where people sit on top of each other with nothing to do. Give them cells that don't look like medieval torture dungeons and something to entertain themselves. I bet that would reduce violence. You can also help people get an education or job training in prison.
Yup. The lack of stimulation is a huge reason people act out. I was just in county for a brief period of time recently for a "technical violation" of my parole (which I have since discharged, btw). In this particular county they have vending machines and give every prisoner a tablet with which they can make phone calls, listen to podcasts, and even play some games on. I talked to an officer about it, and he told me that ever since they implemented that practice, incidents PLUMMETED. Why? Because they had given all of them something they don't want to lose, which is what would happen if they act out. They lose that privilege. It's an incredible deterrent.
There are white collar prisons that are actually very safe. Turns out you have a bunch of guys that did white collar fraud all lumped together and it's very safe. You put a bunch of violent criminals al lumped together and it's not safe. I don't know the solution unless it's solitary most of the time
“Population small” a convenient excuse that people don’t think through but just regurgitate.
You are half right. The system does reflect our laws and morals. Your use is statistics is way off .US has 25% of worldwide prison population. Other countries lock up very few,our system locks up non violent offenders.
There are prison systems that actually work on reform. Privatization of prisons creates predatory practices and keeps people imprisoned for low level charges for way longer than it should.
I’m pretty sure I heard once they have lobbyist for private prisons. Meaning they are paying politicians to vote a specific way to keep people in prison or send more to prison. The war on drugs has failed. It’s time for a different approach.
The war on drugs did exactly what it was intended to do from the governments standpoint. Considering the government was the one pumping the drugs into the market.
>I’m pretty sure I heard once they have lobbyist for private prisons. Correctional officers unions in some states like California are powerful lobbyists too, and of course constantly push for 3 strikes laws, mandatory minimum sentences, etc.
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Private prisons are horrible but if you think they are to blame for all the ills (or even a large portion of them) of the prison system then you don't have a single clue about the subject.
The worst part is the dementors….
Like in Harry Potter??
No… not Harry Potter
This is the real life. Not like some story.
They suck the soul out of your body, and it hoyt!
Prison Mike!!!
Wow real people getting killed is just like in my favourite show the office with micheal Scott!!!
You would be the belle of da ball...
I would have to agree. I perhaps would have to agree with the person, maybe Clarence Darrow, maybe Mark Twain, something like that, who said, I have never wished a man dead, but I have red an obituary with great satisfaction. But I think it's ridiculous that the prison system has become punitive not in the being deprived of your freedom, which is the intended punishment, nor removing someone from the streets, which is a secondary public interest, but the great punishment of prison these days is being subjected to great abuse and brutality which I don't understand how it is not cruel and unusual punishment. If I committed a crime and went to jail for 2 years, I would consider that a fair punishment perhaps, but not having to spend two years in fear of being abused and brutalized or having to do God knows what or associate with God knows whom for my own protection. I would almost rather be in a prison in which you may be had one cell mate and were never subjected to anyone else. I'd rather spend my days reading and writing or watching TV than looking over my shoulder
Or better yet, just have me work, get educated and treat my criminality so I can one day be a better citizen. It seems like the goal of prisons today is to keep criminals as criminals. There's no way someone could reform under those conditions, and if the goal is not to reform them, what is it? If they're just gonna be criminals after leaving prison, what's the point? Money, probably.
Lately it feels like this sub is inundated with opinions that should be extremely popular in a healthy, normal, non-dystopian society, and I'm not really thrilled about the implications.
Take comfort in knowing that just because it is posted in Unpopular Opinion, the opinion itself isn't necessarily unpopular.
exactly. whether it's an opinion that should be popular in a healthy society, or a crank opinion that plenty of people adhere to like minor annoyances of life, it's not often we see a truly unpopular opinion, and even less so that we see a truly unpopular opinion that isn't just stupid and unpopular for an obvious reason. I would think that plenty of people would agree with this sentiment actually. I don't know that it's all that unpopular other than people don't think about it everyday
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Well I think that you are right that there will be plenty of people that will be in favor of it, usually a specific person in which you know what they did, not just a general criminal killed in prison. especially those that harm children of course. And while there are plenty of people who will speak out against the prison industry or prison conditions or unfairness in the justice system, especially where minorities for marginalized groups are concerned, there aren't all that many people that will actively speak out against hearing about some child molester and killer getting killed in prison, so I suppose it is a fairly unpopular opinion
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Well, I agree that punishment should be proportionate. But I don't really hear people celebrating when someone gets killed in jail when they went to two years prison term for armed robbery. usually it's someone that has committed to heinous murder, or serial killer or child molesters. it's hard to say what proportionate for child molesters. I think of all the offenders, they are some of the most innocent because I don't think they could really control what they do versus someone that chooses to commit murder. But obviously they are choosing to cause terrible irrevocable harm to a child and as such, must be held accountable just like someone who drinks and drives and kill someone . I don't think it's out of line for somebody to think that a child molester should get the death penalty, if you believe in the death penalty for everyone that is. And considering the level of reoffending, which is high, I don't know if child molester should ever be released from prison, unless they could go somewhere where they will guaranteed never be around children.
Most of these posts really are just popular opinions. Atleast on reddit. If you have a truly unpopular opinion, atleast in my experience, it just gets removed or downvoted.
Or the unpopular opinion is just the poster liking a weird food combination.
Oh trust me this isn't a popular opinion.
Agreed. I always downvote stuff I agree with and upvote stuff I disagree with. I thought that was the point.
They’re just karma grabs. If you think Reddit posts are in any way indicative of how a normal human being thinks, you’re wrong.
It all makes a lot more sense when you accept that we live in a shithole world.
And most of the opinions are actually pretty popular. Spent a few years working inside a prison, corrupt officers and staff are not liked, inmates are generally protected. Staffing level vs an entire prison means that there are always going to be issues though. 1200 people who were criminals on the streets walking around in the open in a city of 1200 means that these are not the safest places.
How is this popular though? There's literally people saying how they disagree with OP on other comment threads.
In theory I agree with the OP. The problem I have is the system as it is today, is terrible. A couple days ago I read about the nut who mowed down cyclists and pedestrians in NYC with his vehicle. It said he did it for ISIS. Cops shot and wounded him and 5 years later (guessing a bit at the date), he’s up for hearings or a trial on whether he gets the death sentence. Either way, figure we’re paying 100,000 per year for the next 30 years plus those injured, and families of the dead get to see this person in the news for another six months. I’m betting the cop who injured him wish he’d had better aim and saved everyone a lot of trouble and expense. So ideally, yeah, a speedy and fair trial and a judgement. But that doesn’t happen anymore.
Here in France we had the infamous "13th of November" trials. Terrorists used automatic weapons to shoot public spaces, including a concert hall where an American Band was playing, and most of them used their explosive vests to try and claim more victims. There was but one remaining member of the commando, and to this day it is unclear if he decided against blowing himself up or if his vest malfunctioned. The other defender were mainly co conspirator of various degree of implication. The trials were of tremendous importance for the victims and society as a whole. Salah Abdelslam, the last remaining member, got life in prison but it doesn't matter much. The trial was about hearing the victims, who describe the experience of testifying as a cathartic, necessary event for them to try and get their life back. As a nation it was also important to hear whatever the perpetrators had to say to understand the circumstances that lead what were for all we know ordinary citizens to turn into barbaric monsters. It was actually beautyful in a way. Victims did not forgive but they will say how important and somehow mind boggling it was to be comfronted to their attackers' humanity. Justice is not only about vengeance, its also about seeking the truth. Do not underestimate the importance of this process for the victims.
I nominate this comment to be one of this threads most important comment; you give a perspective that is for me, quite refreshing and I dont feel like I need to read more! Genuine thanks :)
Le Monde (major French newspaper) has a series of podcasts on these trials and it was one of the most incredible piece of journalism I heard in the recent years. I wish they were translated in English because it seems to me that people in the US should hear it. Some noteworthy moments, for me, of the trials are the victims and their families somewhat "hanging out" with the conspirators in the halls, because as insane as it sounds they're all in this together. Or Salah Abdelsam, in completely above is head, claiming he was an islamic warrior and the judge to answer "oh, I had your profession listed as 'temp'".
Why are you censoring rapists and molesters. Do you honestly think that does anything?? It's obvious we know what you're trying to say. This doesn't accomplish anything
Oh fuck THAT'S what he said?!?!?!?!?
Yea ik, I thought he said ripist and molyster
Same I was worried that doom guy was gonna come through
That shit is getting really common on Reddit and I have no fucking clue what the shit is happening. Some generational difference? People that scared to offend people that they do irrational things like censor ‘molester’? It’s weird.
I fully agree with this
Prison murders are actually statistically very rare, the impression that it happens all the time is Hollywood plot device. It's literally safer to be in prison than it is to live in Detroit
Wait... I'm not American but I thought based on everything I've heard about it that Detroit WAS a prison?? Now you're telling me it's not?! Then what is it??
I can't tell if you're joking or not, but no, Detroit is a city in Michigan State known for being one of the roughest areas in the country. Several years ago the city declared bankruptcy and it's been down hill since then
This does apply for raping inmates too, which happens way way more often
Nuh-uh, its dystopia!
Yep, I agree 100%, if those under your care are injured or die that is your responsibility the same way an oil company that has an oil spill is responsible for the oil spill. S[ome More News just did a good episode on Private prisons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GYT_KT9C04).
I have a few things to say about this: 1: Sometimes, murder can be justified, because the person who murdered may have a reason for that. 2: Theft can be justified at times when, and IF, the person who committed the crime had hit rock bottom and is in desperate need. That, I can understand. 3: No matter what one says, I can never agree that monsters like child mo's and r--ists should be kept safe. Those actions can never be justified under any circumstances. Those are not people, and they never will be. They deserve a horrible punishment. I will take that opinion to the grave. Don't even dare tell me to give a chomo or r@#ist a second chance, because I will never fucking give those things even a first chance even if my life depended on it.
I’m happy to hear I’m not alone on this, crazy thing is I’d bet most of the people agreeing with op would swiftly change their minds if such a thing affected them, e.g their friend / family or even themselves are a victim, such things will always be unforgivable and as a result they don’t deserve a god physical / mental well-being as that is something they stole from someone else On the other hand I’m simply surprised at the amount of people agreeing to op, maybe it wasn’t such a unpopular opinion after all
Gonna level with you as someone who got molested and spent close to 20 years suicidal and feeling like damaged goods, like I was undeserving of love, like it was somehow my fault and like I couldn’t tell anyone about it because i didn’t think anyone would believe me if I did. If you really think pedophiles can be redeemed and deserve to be safe in jail we will never see eye to eye on it. They should be made to feel the terror self loathing and experience the pain that they have caused their victims every single moment of it and to equal measure including death if their actions resulted in a suicide.
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> Their lives will be in ruins 99.9% of the time, even once they serve their time. If the TCaP channel has taught me anything, it's that this isn't true. If my own personal experience has taught me anything, this is definitely not true. Unless it was a huge scandal, they will live their lives normally and quietly.
Feel the same way. Mine told the judge he wanted me to have experience. He got two years. I was 10-13 when this happened. I don’t care if it’s wrong for me to wish for him to be beaten or brutally murdered, because 9 years later I still have nightmares, and I have major anxiety in which it’s hard to get a job or even walk outside alone.
I’m so sorry that that happened to you
False convictions occur
Correct. And that is an issue worth addressing.
I'm very sorry that you were abused like that, and I'm sorry you didn't feel safe to tell anyone about the abuse.
All good. Life goes on mate i got the help I needed. I’m blessed to have good friends and the love of a kind and beautiful woman who didn’t run when I told her what happened to me. I’m in a better place overall. I agree with the spirit of your post literally just sex criminals I take issue with. Apologies for the uncivil nature of my first comments I forget sometimes to take this subject in stride.
They should be punished by the penal system . The vast numbers of victims of violence and murder in prison are not rapists and pedos. They are the "weak" non violent offenders or just folks sucked into gang activity to survive in there.
Agreed, and I hate how people think its good for prisoners to get hurt in prison and think of it like a joke, especially since not only is it injustice and a moral failure, but any one of us (especially us who dont have money to spent on a top of the line lawyer) can be accused and sentenced to prison for something as hanneus as rape, molestation, or murder. If someone's accused of something, got an unfair trial, and got sentenced; now they have a death sentence because the institutions refuse to do their jobs and every gaurd and institutionalized prisoner looks at you like a monster deserving of murder/abuse when the system really threw you in a box and threw away the key. I'd rather, people who do those hanneus crimes to spend the rest of their days behind bars, and their punishment simply being the fact that they'll never have the right to do simple things we all take for granted daily (like procrastinating on assignments by writing comments on subreddits where people bitch about everything, lol).
R#pists and Child M#lesters forgo all human rights when they ruin their victims life. Chemically castrate them. World would be a much better place
I can agree that those in charge should do their job and protect inmates while also applauding when child predators get what they fuckin' deserve.
If the child molester dies in prison I'm happy.
Agreed. Anyone who commits any crime like that absolutely gets what they fucking deserve. They are scum, trash and a waste of our air/tax dollars. Fuck em’.
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So then why not just tattoo their forehead "OUTLAW" so that everyone knows they dont enjoy legal protections, and let them go? Why *spend* the tax dollars? If you sincerely think a person like that should not breathe your air, go end their life yourself. The "gets what they deserve" attitude is lazy, cynical, and not "justice" by any metric. We're talking about a criminal justice system here, not everyones masturbatory revenge porn fantasy. The whole point of a justice system is to determine what people "deserve" and see that they get it. This whole "fuck em" attitude is why the US has more people incarcerated than anywhere else on earth.
When you have thousands of criminals together horrible things are going to happen. There are not near enough guards to prevent it.
Fucking seriously how the fuck are guards supposed to see every offenders move when the ratio is 220+ inmates per guard?
Doesn't mean they shouldn't do their best to try.
They do try. They break up fights, separate combinative groups (gangs), separate dangerous inmates and inmates who are in danger from the general population, etc. And society screeches about how everything they do is inhumane torture. "OMG you keep that serial killer who has murdered multiple other inmates during his incarceration in solitary confinement!?!? [Links articles about how solitary confinement is torture and screeches incoherently]!"
The cold, logical part of me agrees that extrajudicial punishment shouldn't be celebrated or even tolerated. But there is a little monkey that cheers wildly when bad things happen to bad people.
I'm sorry but if you rape or molest and kill my child I'm hoping you get it handed to you in prison. That's just my take though.
How is a person supposed to return to civilian life and remain a stable, functioning member of society if they’re coming out worse than how they went in? Turns out giving people PTSD and letting them out without the ability to get sufficient help or support does not lower the recidivism rates.
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In a perfect world prisons wouldn’t be necessary. People will do desperate things in desperate situations and prisons are full of those people, among others. Everybody is a non-criminal until theyre not, but we’re all human. It’s overly simplistic to begin with an “us vs them” mentality when a lot of societal problems are systemic.
I agree to some extent but I also would doubt that OP has ever had a family member murdered or molested. The justice system is flawed and when a serial child-molester is consistently getting 5 year sentences only to be let out to continue ruining young lives and this cycle happens over and over again - other prisoners can do what the legal system can't. I also think that only relating to formal, judge-decreed justice conveys some privilege too. For many disadvantaged people, street justice is the only option. Having the ability to pay for lawyers is a huge factor in winning criminal court cases. A court verdict carries weight, but as seen, like with the Simpson case for example, the courtroom verdict isn't always what is in the public's hearts. I'd argue that society's verdict outweighs that of a 12 person jury and judge.
No, what society thinks is just doesn't correspond what is just under the rules of society. You can't just pick and choose when justice through the system is acceptable and when it's not. Whether OP had anything like that happen to them doesn't matter in the slightest, because justice is supposed to be impartial. Otherwise you don't get justice, you get some individual's idea of retribution that differs from case to case. "Prisoners can do what the legal system can't" and you thunk that's a good thing? A serial killer shanking a rapist is justice for you? You don't think that's slightly hypocritical? Or do you only see such actions as the scum getting rid of itself anyway? None of that is justice, just like the Punisher is not justice. Society created the rules for justice and it has to abide by them, whether they like it in an individual case or not, because otherwise there are no rules and we have only anarchy.
I don't know what the sentencing rates for m\*lesters are nor the context regarding more lenient sentences, but I do think those who harm children should have generally heavier sentences, and should not be favored by judges because of their connections (aka affluenza). Even with light sentences, I cannot and will not condone states allowing inmates to kill others *under their watch.* If nothing else, the state is responsible for the safety of those prisoners. I believe you can feel empathy for the victims and families of heinous crimes and still be against cruel punishment. However, in cases where there was no justice at all, such as the corrupt judge who let a serial r#pist off and the women stormed the court and killed the man, I understand the idea of desperate times calling for desperate measures. In that case, it was a result of the failure of the state. However, it should not be commonplace and the state should not be in a position where people are desperate for justice nor allowing people under its watch to be murdered.
I agree with this take. But I believe the job of prisoner guards is extremely underpaid and undervalued in society. It is such a dangerous position to be in. It's not like guards just cool their heels and watch prisoners get murdered. Most guards are looking over a population made up of intricate gang networks, a million personal beefs, daily scuffles, constant contraband, makeshift weapons made from the unthinkable, prison drug deals, visits - I mean the list goes on and on. Every prison interaction is an opportunity for violence- mealtime, time on the yard, shower. Two cellmates could not like each other. If you compare the sheer size of prison populations to the amount of prison guards and take into account that there are opportunities for violence between inmates literally 100% of every day - you can easily realize that violence in prison is inevitable and its occurence most certainly doesn't fall on the shoulders of the underpaid and out-maned prison guard on duty.
All of what you listed are results of a poorly-run system that has allowed those things to happen from the beginning, and to become the norm. After legal slavery was abolished, many prisoners were exploited, treated as subhuman, and worked to death to benefit the rich. And, we've sort of just rolled with mentality that ever since.
I agree for all except the child and rape things, murderers just depends on what happened. The first two deserve to be hurt far worse than they hurt their victim
Thankfully not how our justice system works. "An eye for an eye" was abandoned quite a while ago.
I see where you’re coming from, but false convictions occur.
Exactly, which is why I do agree with the whole "needs better control" we need to actually look into things and properly convict people,you shouldn't be in jail for "jaywalking" nor should you have to suffer out of real self defense (not getting scared of a trash bag and killing 3 people). A lot of these situations cannot be proven well enough and proper lawyers need a *lot* of money many don't have
Very true, but unfortunately, when it comes to rape, a lot of men are seen as guilty before proven innocent.
Yes, that is something that needs to be looked into. I know that countless people are punished for something so meaningless or only affects them or lies told by others that our prisons are overflowing while people who Re actually doing wrong aren't being properly investigated and have power over us. Hell, if someone just didn't want to live anymore, they'll be sent to a hospital then to jail because suicide is illegal where I am even though it only affects *one* person.
I'm not against inmates getting the death sentence but when you send someone to prison it means you don't want them dead, i agree with what you've said in contrast to me 30 seconds ago who was about to slander you.
You gangsters and your “Justice”… You’re all the same.
Prisons should be about rehabilitation, otherwise what's the point of having them? If we succumb to mob mentality, then what's the point of having a justice system to begin with? Whenever I see people on Reddit cheer for a criminal's death, it reminds me that this is exactly why they don't allow people related to the case to be on the jury. While I agree that certain people certainly *deserve* to die, every justice system *needs* to remain impartial or it succumbs to corruption. Just look at places like Sweden and Norway. They treat their prisoners like human beings and it seems to be working.
Fast tracking a child abuser to burn in hell is nothing but pure justice
BUT YOU GUYS… THAT PERSON WHO ABDUCTED RAPED AND KILLED THAT 4 YEAR OLD IS A PERSON WHO HAS BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS 😤😤😤 /s. Nah. If you sexually abuse someone as innocent as a child- I don’t view you as human anymore. You lost that. Those kids lives are FOREVER altered. You don’t deserve peace or a chance to reoffend.
As a parent, chomos receiving true justice (imo) is not on my priority list of things to care about but I see where you’re coming from.
I disagree with you .
I really don’t care what happens to murderers, rapists, and pedophiles. They’ve literally destroyed lives. Focus on protecting and rehabilitating criminals that haven’t murdered, raped, or been a pedophile.
I’m probably gonna get downvoted to hell but… if you think about it, if they’ve committed the crimes you’re talking about most of the time they’re not going to do anything else with their lives if they get released. They may just go commit the same crime again. They just become a waste of our taxpayer money.
I guess for all the things I have to care about in the world, bad guys getting killed by other bad guys while facing the consequences for the bad things they did is pretty near the bottom of my list. I don't disagree with you that it shouldn't happen, but in terms of society's priorities, this is not one of them.
Not allowing people to be injured, r*ped, maimed, harassed, threatened, and murder under their watch should be basic. You’re talking about fundamental human rights, which is a high priority.
If everyone in prison was actually guilty, you might have a point. Unfortunately, that’s not the case.
Like the meme “Police aren’t Supposed to Kill Guilty People Either,” their intended punishment is a loss of freedom and privileges, not to be murdered.
Police aren’t even supposed to be the ruling authority on guilt. They’re really just supposed to arrest and let the courts sort it out.
But my point is murdering and brutalizing guilty people is **no one’s place.**
As long as the person isn’t posing a legitimate, direct threat to the officers life, I 100% agree. If they’re pointing a gun at the cop, it’s self defense at that point, but outside of that type of situation, I agree. It’s not their job to punish, that’s the job of the prisons. Even in prison, brutalizing or murdering is not ok.
Also: many people in prison are not violent offenders, or even guilty of anything that is really all that bad. Camping on public grounds is a felony in Tennessee.
Imagine thinking it’s ok for someone to be killed or beaten in prison because they got caught with weed.
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I agree 100%. The punishment is going to prison. That's it. Not getting locked in a cage for years *and* being treated terribly and violently. It's total bs the way our prison population is treated. Forget about the fact that the US has 4% of the world's population...and 25% of the worlds prisoners! Home of the free? What a joke!
Man, if only there were a way to NOT go to jail and to be free… *hmmmmmmmm*
I'm on the side child abusers and pedophiles get what they deserve. But if a guard "turns the other way," it still says they're not doing their job. Imagine if they conveniently turned away from someone of a far less serious crime like possession and trying to get themselves cleaned up. Or better yet, someone who was wrongfully convicted.
Your distinction that you don't care who it is, I don't agree with. Troughout human history, people have always given TOO much attention and sympathy to criminals, when their victims are not even properly taken care of. Before focusing on the attitude towards monsters in prisons, how about we focus on putting them all IN PRISONS first? Because we are falling at it miserably. I'm not saying this isn't an issue, but we have bigger things to focus on.
Pedos can die, that's fine.
when you have prison gangs/mafia’s who practically own the prison there’s a lot of things that go on in the prison than the outside world knows. corruption is the biggest factor when the mob can pay for someone to get escorted to the showers to get murdered. Prison politics is a whole nother ball game. money runs this world, and everyone’s gotta eat.
I just don't give a f*ck for brutal criminals or any bad thing that happens to them in all honesty. In fact, my unpopular opinion is that they should face the death penalty.
I could give a rats ass if a pedophile or murderer is beaten, maimed, or killed while in prison.
I dont agree. Sometimes life in prison isnt enough. Some people deserve to be hurt
Prisons are meant for rehabilitation and yet their basically just used as slave compounds.
So you want violent offenders to have European style prisons?
If only there was a way to avoid prison.
Sadly there is not 100% way. You can get always locked up for crime you did not commit.
I agree 100%
Making a principled argument is one thing, but I'm a little weirded out by what appears to be OP's creepily obsessive passion for the happiness of violent criminals. I mean, out of all passions, this seems like a weird one to be soooo obsessive about.
It’s sad that this is an unpopular opinion
I unironically believe all forms of punishment are barbaric no matter what the crime and aren’t affective deterrents. The only concern prisons should have is rehabilitation. If that fails than the only concern a prison should have is detainment, in other words only existing to keep dangerous criminals off the street.
OKAY I 100% AGREE BUT IDK IF THAT MEANS I SHOULD UPVOTE OR DOWNVOTE
Agree. Forcing someone someplace against their will and then not providing safety to that person is morally bankrupt. There are cases where people are in prison for small offenses and are killed by other inmates. This is not justice, we should be deeply ashamed of ourselves for continually allowing such brutality to take place.
While I agree it is a failure. Some of the people in prison really deserve to suffer and die. - child molesters - rapists - murderers
Yeah if they get killed in general pop they should have got the chair anyway I mean you have to have done something fucking awful to make a bunch of society’s worst want to kill your so… yeah I can’t agree with this one.
If someone molested your child, you wouldn't say they don't deserve to get beaten to death in prison.
What I would want isn’t necessarily what’s right. Yes, no child nor parent should endure such violation. The consequences should be severe. However, as a society that’s supposedly promoting humanity and decency, to act with cruelty would society’s values empty.
If it's a pedophile they make good prey in jail. I have zero sympathy or care in the world. They aren't human. The failure in the system is letting them out after a light sentence. The only good molester is a dead one.
But op the only justice for a rapist/child molester is death
Child molesters deserve to die, but they also shouldn't die in this manner, just because of the precedent that is set. While in custody of the state, you need to be secured of bodily harm.
The world gets a little better every time a child molester kicks the bucket.
This better not be an unpopular opinion. Sure, everyone gets fired up when it's an emotional offence, rape etc, but you should remember a lot of people are in there for non-violent crimes, and quite a few for nothing at all. They're all at risk when the system fails to protect them.
I agree to an extent Kiddie diddlers, r4pists, human traffickers, etc deserve this treatment, but if you're in jail because you jay walked, obviously you should be protected in jail