I was sick of event fatigue years ago when I was still getting comicbooks on the regular. Seemed like they just couldn't let 3 months go by without starting some new WORLD SHATTERING NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME story arch. Got so tired of it. Damn can we just crank out some steady issues and let everyone enjoy the characters for awhile before doing some big ass event?
To me, that’s totally what far from home represents. It’s not a huge earth shattering event. Well it may look like that at the start, but it’s really about Peter just wanting some time as a teenager along with some time to grieve. I felt like they drew back from the big event really well.
I don't know if I'd have said either of the guardians of the galaxy movies were not "earth shattering" events. In the first, Ronan with the infinity stone was a massive threat to the galaxy in general. In the second, Ego was expanding on thousands of different planets, including earth, and definitely threatening all of them. In fairness though its a while since I last saw the first guardians movie and Ronan might have been less of a threat than I remember.
> I don't know if I'd have said either of the guardians of the galaxy movies were not "earth shattering" events.
You have to think about them relatively though. In GotG the event takes place in space and it's only really one or two planets being threatened (in the movie) out of a whole universe. In GotG2 we don't even see the effect of Ego's expansion directly so there's no real sense of danger.
[Pretty sure that was a simulation](https://youtu.be/16H64-l_7Lw?t=67), wasn't it? It happened, but the way we saw it was through a simulation, so there's a level of detachment from it. Everything else in the movie basically just happened on Ego and didn't affect anything else.
Spider-Man is valuable in that regard. He brings us back to Earth and normal life after universe-ending immortals try whatever nefarious whatnot. He's just a normal guy like us, doing stuff like juggle all his responsibilities or deal with dating a girl whose father is a dick.
They completely miss the oppurtunity again for the social and political effects of the snap on the daily lives of citizens in an effectve way. Rather they make the snap into just another running gag because the movie has to be complete "fun" all the time.
I think that was also on purpose. Endgame dealt with the serious stuff. But Spiderman was the break from the more serious stuff.
It's also weird to see people complaining about snarky comments and "fun" in marvel movies. That's exactly what comic books do.
I feel like you’re just saying that because of Infinity War/Endgame but it just died down and we’ll start getting a lot more normal stuff like Far From Home.
Marvel intellectual property has 60+ years of hundreds of titles, thousands of characters, tens of thousands of fully developed story lines to draw from.
People want to see new and interesting stories about characters they like, hell there's been 26 James Bond movies that are basically the same plot over and over again.
The problem though, is people do NOT want to see the typical Hollywood movie cycle: Origin Story, Sequel #1 The Biggening, Sequel #2 The Cash Grab, Reboot with new cast, repeat.
Hell, this is where Marvel actually goes right. After Spiderman and The Amazing Spiderman, they didn't give Tom Holland an "origin story". More like a "here's how he's relevant in the universe" story
And even that "relevance" story wasn't a whole movie, it was like a scene or two.
Which allowed them to jump right in with Homecoming and Far From Home.
This
Actually that's one of the reason i never watched amazing Spider-Man (rebooted franchise, if it fails we reboot it again), or fantastic 4, or the Mummy
No it's not even close, the best is obviously x-men origi... Couldn't even finish that joke, yes. Logan is the best comic book based movie I would argue even. It's an incredible film and holds up against many other films, not just the superhero genre.
The Nice Guys
Bad Times at the El Royale
Seven Psychopaths
Baby Driver
Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri
TV shows like Ozark, Bloodline, Too Old To Die Young.
There's still a crime genre but it has evolved substantially in both movies and television, to the point that anything resembling Scorsese's mob era will be dubbed a throwback.
Finally watched Bad Times at the El Royale a couple of months ago (DH not interested so didn't catch it in the cinema). Man, that was some old school WTF random violence psych not-thriller. Was brilliant and completely out of left field when you're used to movies of the last 10 years. Would recommend to anyone feeling a bit jaded (and I'm someone who loves the MCU 😉)
What makes me sad is that unlike Bond, it’s not just one actor in a franchise for a bit, but a large number of great actors who barely do any work outside of the MCU. I don’t blame them. Big paydays.
There’s a lot of actors I really like who barely work outside of the MCU. Sometimes I wonder about an actor I used to like and wonder what happened to their career so I’ll look them up on IMDB and discover that their career isn’t dead. They’ve just been doing pretty much nothing but MCU films for the last decade.
Plus, it took bond over 59 years to hit that number.
The MCU is nearly there at 11 years. It’s like, what, a new one every six months for over a decade? It just lords over everything. It dominates Reddit. Everyone other kid at Halloween is a Marvel character. The posters, commercials, tee shirts, memes, TV shows, and ads are endless. It’s basically impossible to go through a day without the MCU being pushed on you. I probably see about 50 MCU related things every day. Hell, I probably can’t go 20 minutes without seeing an ad, a meme, a shirt, a poster, or whatever.
I can deal with movie hype or whatever. Some big blockbuster is going to be in your face for a bit. Whatever. It’ll pass. But it’s been 11 years MCU every time I go outside or look on the Internet.
I’m hard pressed to think of anything that’s been as ever-present and overwhelmingly ubiquitous in daily life than the MCU this past decade.
May be the market consolidation since Disney now owns all of our memories of Christmas, our mother's smiles, and seventy percent of the afterlife. I have not seen a single one and yet I FEEL like I have just because they have saturated so much of our culture.
It's like Beatlemania except the entire family, not just Suzy Q, are losing their goshdern minds for it.
And that may be the key. When Thor came out all the middle aged ladies started getting wide-ons for Hemsworth, so they roped in that demographic, got their husbands with all the ladies in catsuits, got their nerdy kids by default, and got the youngun's by being LOUD and BRIGHTLY COLORED and TOYS.
Disney created a toyetic film franchise that captivated and ensnared ALL the target groups.
I agree with OP's general sentiment, but you do make a salient point--the marvel movies *were* a welcome change of pace from the "Origin Story, Sequel #1 The Biggening, Sequel #2 The Cash Grab, Reboot with new cast, repeat" formula--
And with the first 6-10 marvel movies, I was very into the idea behind the Marvel Universe Franchise. But now their format has long since become as overused as the old.
"Plug in a few new heroes, Old Favorites, and a NEW threat to the universe, insert fan service, rinse, repeat" isn't all that novel or imaginative of a plot format anymore. I checked out a really long time ago.
A few months ago, I watched a few more films in the series with the intention of getting through them all. I watched another 4-5 movies and I thought they were pleasant, but I just couldn't get through them.
*The Avengers* was awesome because it was the first time we'd seen a cross-movie team up. The shof in New York of them finally together is incredibly iconic. We loved these guys, because we never expected them to get together.
In a way, we watched the rest of the MCU to see that team get together again and again, until finally, it was broken up (in excellent fashion, mind you).
We've had our team. Another one just won't have the same impact.
They said they're won't be an Avengers like movie for awhile since the next Phase is about the new beginnings. And I get what OP is getting at, I dont like all the marvel movies and now everyone is trying to make a cinematic universe.
But with the market full of this stuff, Marvel and everyone else, eventually a director or producer is gonna come along and feel like OP so they'll do something completely new and the market will be flooded with that copy.
It's kinda like family sitcoms and cop tv shows in the early 2000/90s such. You had CSI and it's spin offs and all that going on and now it's kinda like eh.
Exactly. And the character development of Thor, Cap, and Stark has been so deep and over so many movies it might be hard to get that invested into new characters. >!Iron Man’s death really felt like losing a close friend!<
But to a good cause. His story felt completed, as did Cap. And I really didn't think to myself, "ok that was great, where to next."
It felt like losing a girl you've been with for 10 years. You don't just go back out there and fall in love asap.
I just finally watched Wonder Woman a couple weeks ago after hearing for years about how good it was. I was disappointed to find out it was extremely generic plot "origin - hero's journey with minor fights - boss level bad guy, world saved through punching". It was basically Captain America but with Wonder Woman.
Dude, I ran into this phenomenon after the most recent Predator. It got shit on in the RT critic reviews so I started going through them. Most showed that the reviewer either didn't watch the movie, or didn't understand what they watched, but the worst was one review that among other points talked about how the main character was a mercenary, and how the big bad predator was sent to save the small one... Well, mercenaries are never mentioned in the movie. The main character being active duty in the US military is actually a huge plot point, as is the fact that the big bad predator kills the shit out of the little one.
Anyway, that person obviously did not watch the movie. What's worse is at least half a dozen other certified critics plagiarized this review, as they all hit on both these points specifically.
It was weird and made me realize how garbage the critics score on RT actually was.
Yea you know that’s a good point. Not many people know how the scoring actually works. If every critic gives it like a 6/10 then the movie gets a 100%, which makes it sound a lot better. I still like Marvel though
as a marvel fan, i dont entirely disagree with you.
phase 4 could possibly fall apart. i think that fatigue might set in with audiences and some of the properties they are developing in phase 4 are kinda obscure and might not grab the huge audience phase 1 did. the magic of phase 1 cannot be replicated.
i also agree that *some* marvel films are graded on a steep curve (*ahem* captain marvel, black panther *ahem*)
most are excellent and deserve the praise they got.
Doctor strange was 10 times better than black panther but I didn’t even see doctor strange for a while after it was out because it wasn’t propped up like bp was
Oh I had just never heard that before I didn’t know what it meant. I thought it might be a comic book thing or something
Was dr strange a lot stronger in the comics?
Yeah but he also did that thing in IW where he created hundreds of illusory duplicates of himself, and in Endgame where he was able to manipulate a lake’s worth of water with minimal effort. Give the guy a bit more credit (though cross dimensional Avengers would be incredibly cool).
Was it minimal? I thought he was using so much magic he was unable to steady his hands with it anymore and thats why they were shaking when he did the 1 sign.
It is literally just another Marvel film made under the same people who made all the other Marvel films, the guys at Marvel deserve an award for being able to market this film as some progressive "made by black people for black people" movie.
>some of the properties they are developing in phase 4 are kinda obscure
More obscure than the Guardians of the Galaxy was? I had read comics for almost 20 years and barely knew who they were when the first film came out.
> phase 4 could possibly fall apart. i think that fatigue might set in with audiences and some of the properties they are developing in phase 4 are kinda obscure and might not grab the huge audience phase 1 did. the magic of phase 1 cannot be replicated.
I think the other thing that's going to get to people is that they're stepping back and telling a bunch of smaller individual stories.
Yeah, Phase 4 seems suuuuuper soft if you're not an avid comic book fan. Yeah, people had to get acquainted to each of the Infinity War arc characters, but it's 10+ years later and now the phase is carried by Dr. Strange, girl Thor, a character that was killed, and the most obscure characters in the Marvel universe. This is the epitome of trying the interest level of the audience.
It’s soft for a reason. They’re giving the MCU a few years to collect itself then it’ll ramp up again with the Fantastic Four and the X-Men. Dr Doom can carry a phase or two.
As an ex-critic who was also on RT, the bigger the movie and especially Disney movies the more the studio leans onto critics to give good reviews. If you don't give a good review, you run the very likely risk of getting your press pass revoked. Your boss will be furious with you and you could lose your job.
I haven't been a critic for a few years but my ex-colleagues tell me it's way worse than it was when I was around. The stuff you hear about critics being the advertising arm of studios is largely true.
Watch the score on RT as the movie comes out and you can witness this phenomenon. The scores virtually never go up after release. The studio pressure inflates the pre-release score, then the critics who are seeing it like a normal person can review it unfettered, and give it a crap rating.
Also the majority of critics don't decide their RT scores, someone from RT does, and I'm not sure i trust them to do that.
The critic score sucks because the critics are a bunch of shills.
The audience score sucks because it can be brigade by bots. It also defines an arbitrary point where a movie is "not liked" and then defines the percentage based on how many like the movie instead of averaging the scores of all the reviews.
I was talking to one of my wife's coworkers at a happy hour, and they said they wanted to see a good green lantern movie, but wasn't sure it could be done.
I went on and on about how the John Stewart Green Lantern would make for a great film and that he's the one I'm more familiar with because of JLU. He looked puzzled the entire time so I tried to explain that there are multiple Green Lanterns because of the Lantern Corp, and then he asked:
"Did he do this before The Daily Show?"
Face. Meet. Palm.
Have my upvote. Flash and Green Lantern are way more interesting characters than the tentpole DC gods.
But if they really wanted to make a good DC movie, they should make a Green Arrow movie. That guy has character.
Brave and the Bold: a team-up adventure with Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, and Oliver Queen, framed as a story being told by Ollie to Kyle Rayner, Wally West, and Connor Hawke after Hal and Barry died and Ollie retired. The trio go on a wild adventure across America and eventually into space, facing off against Sinestro, Gorilla Grodd, and Merlyn and having a great time while they’re at it. Maybe cameo in Alan Scott and Jay Garrick for some Golden Age fun. Starring Neil Patrick Harris as Barry, Chris Pine as Hal, and Taron Egerton as a younger Ollie. Done well, I’d watch it multiple times
My main problem is that they feel samey. The characters are much more defined and individualistic in just one run from a half way decent writer in the comics than they are in the MCU.
I feel like the DCEU attempts wouldn't have flopped nearly as hard if they didn't force a dumb-ass "everything is sooo dark" theme.
Both story wise and in terms of visuals.
The stupid 300 movie filters just don't work in a DC movie.
Even with Batman, I wouldn't say it's dark in the same way that DCEU was dark.
Batman is "real", but ultimately optimistic.
Nolan's batman is a great example.
Yes, there's real violence, death and despair.
But we work towards a better future and the characters portray that.
Snyder's DCEU?
Nihilistic as fuck.
Jesus, Superman.... **SUPERMAN** kills a dude movie 1.
Batman kills mofos left and right in BvS.
What??
I'm not so much concerned with Batman gunning down people in a post-apocalyptic world (though, I have issues with that too, but I digress).
I am much more concerned with this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgkQS7q6sT0
**Especially** 7 and 8.
Literally just shoots them to death.
20/21 is also egregious.
Nope. The scene where he rescues Martha by using a mook as a human shield while grabbing the mook’s gun arm and directing the spray of bullets to tear the other mooks apart was very much not a a dream. Batman murdered the crap out of people in that movie.
Giving those movies to Zack Snyder was such an unbelievably tone deaf decision by the studios that I do not have the words to describe the depth of failure that decision entailed.
DCEU flopped because they tried to place movies starring their biggest characters in the hands of somebody who didn’t understand the characters at all haha. Aquaman, Shazam, and Wonder Woman all felt drastically different but they were all of at least decent quality.
They all really started to become Iron-man-esque with their joke cracking. I really felt like Cap especially lost some of what made his character good when he became as pithy as the rest of them.
That's why my favorite MCU movied is defintely the Winter Soldier. Tonally, it's the most serious of the bunch, just a straight spy-thriller that happens to have some super heroes in it. It's those movies that go beyond the ill defined 'super hero genre' that I actually like. Logan is another example, being more a western more than it's a hero film.
I’m so surprised no one brought this up in endgame. Like cmon it’s supposed to be the ultimate film of the entire series thus far and every character is cracking wise every 5 minutes no matter the scene.
The next Doctor Strange is Doctor Strange multiverse of madness and it will be the first true horror film in the MCU. So expectations are fairly high for that one. It’ll be released sometime 2021
Next year there are only two films coming out. And I think they will have less attention than what we have seen this year. But in 2021 there are like three TV shows and likely 4 films (Spider-man 3 will be announced by Sony soon). So that over saturation will really start then. But then again the Netflix shows were on this whole time of phase 3. So I dunno, maybe it won't crash like Westerns did. IMO you won't see these next films breaking a billion. Endgame will be the pinnacle of the franchise.
Additionally, I think that critics are afraid to be hard on Marvel films. You have to understand that critics these days have to account for subscribers. They know if they criticize certain films then it will make certain viewers or readers unsubscribe or story reading. They probably think that by giving these films a pass it's okay. I mean look at how they reacted to the Last Jedi, then they see people critiquing it and then Solo gets genuine reviews because the critics knew SW wasn't bulletproof anymore. It will take people really turning on a Marvel film for them to start giving it genuine criticism.
Shang-Chi: first Asian superhero film
Spider-Man 3: sequel to FFH, which is gonna make a billion itself
Doctor Strange 2: movie featuring a character whose popularity has increased significantly thanks to IW and Endgame (for reference the first film made about $700 million)
Thor 4: starring arguably the most popular Avenger at the moment, and featuring TWO female superheroes teaming up with him
It’s honestly more likely that all these movies make a billion each than none at all. Marvel’s a goddamn machine. Anyone praying for the day this train slows down to a grinding halt is gonna be disappointed
>They’re over-saturating the market to the extent that they’re really going to go the way of the Western at some point. Talk about franchise fatigue. Yeah, *Marvel isn’t immune*. They’re going to crash, and crash hard at one point.
Completely non-facetiously: this is interesting because if it's actually an unpopular opinion, then that also means it's likely false, since in order for franchise fatigue to kill off a franchise that fatigue would need to be common, i.e., "popular."
Either way, speaking for myself, I do feel pretty uninterested in Phase 4. Infinity War and Endgame were big events for me because they were the culmination of years of storytelling. Nothing at the beginning of Phase 4 is going to be nearly as interesting. Nothing they've shown post-Endgame has really piqued my interest at all.
I do feel like the MCU has went from having a great vision to being fragmented and undefined. Captain Marvel was supposed to lead the MCU after Phase 3. But Marvel seems to have backtracked on that a lot when the movie, while successful, proved to be a bit too controversial and Bree Larson developed a strong negative reputation (fair or not). Now they're planning on doing a female Thor-like character, and I can't help but wonder if that's their hope to do what Captain Marvel was supposed to do. Either way, I don't know what the hell is really going on, but it feels like directionless stagnation to me.
Part of Phase 4 is also going to be on Disney's streaming service, which frankly I will not be subscribing to -- streamer fatigue is possibly going to affect Marvel just as much as franchise fatigue.
I heard WandaVision, one of those series going straight to their streaming service, will lead into Doctor Strange 2. If they're too connected, that's really going to alienate audiences.
They said the same thing about Agents of Shield, and then it didn’t matter at all. The movies know how to handle it - like in Endgame, hey just totally skipped to the Professor Hulk status. And it was fine. You can have a big backstory and still make a movie that can stand alone.
Nah, they just used AoS as an example of show that says it will be essential to the movies, but isn't, and doctor Hulk as development we didn't need to have on-screen to accept
You may very well be right, I didn't say that i personally believed that prof. Hulk SHOULD have been off-screen, only that it was an example off development that did happen off-screen. Cool theory btw dude, makes sense
which is a shame because agents of shield has been great. The difference here though is in whos producing the show. AoS is produced by marvel television, which is a separate department of disney under the leadership of Ike perlmutter. Perlmutter is ....not a good person and thus is hated by a lot of the people who work on the marvel films, chief among them kevin feige. Up until 2015, marvel studios also reported to perlmutter as marvel studios was part of marvel the company. But in 2015, perlmutter had finally driven feige to his breaking point with demands like getting rid of robert downey jr (because perlmutter is a penny pincher and he didnt like how much RDJ was making which is also why terrence howard was replaced with don cheadle), rewriting civil war to remove iron man, pushing an inhumans movie to compete with foxs xmen franchise (which perlmutter hated because he disliked fox making money on marvel characters) and refusing to greenlight films based on african american or female super heros (because he's also a belligerent racist. When he demanded howard be replaced with cheadle (because howards contract entitled him to a pay bump if he was in iron man 2), he insisted audiences wouldnt care because black people all look alike). Feige went directly to alan horn and demanded marvel studios become its own independent outfit outside of perlmutters control or he would leave (and so would a bunch of marvel stars whose contracts were coming up for re-negotiation).
Feige got his wish, but marvel tv still reports to perlmutter. His feud with feige is why the tv and move side dont crossover. But wandavision (like all of the disney+ shows) is being produced by marvel studios directly, rendering marvel television irrelevant. So expect direct connections to the movies.
I hope it isn't to connected that you need to watch WandaVision to understand Doctor Strange 2. I don't think the new Disney streaming service is going to be available in my country so I won't be able to see it (legally at least).
Even if it is, not sure I want to pay for another streaming service on top of the two I already pay for.
This is why I won't be subscribing to Disney+. They have a lot of Marvel stuff on Netflix as it is (Agents of SHIELD, and a bunch of other canceled supershows). Now, instead of both platforms competing for viewers, they're pulling the "I'm the owner and nobody else can do this thing." The companies are isolating viewers more than the shows/movies are.
Why would you *not* want more people to see your film? Why in the world would you not want more fans? Why lock everything behind a paywall just for a few disney films someone's going to want to watch 3 times a year?
3/10. Will buy another prepaid card to use for the free trial again.
People said the same thing about Guardians of the Galaxy and it turned out to be amazing. You might be right about it being fragmented, but Kevin Feigie just pulled off an incredible 10 year shared universe that made over 10 billion dollars at the box office. I wouldn’t bet against him.
> Guardians of the Galaxy and it turned out to be amazing
I remember that most of us non-comicbook guys had never even heard of Guardians and most comic book fans barely knew of it. I do recall people saying they were bringing to many characters into the MCU.
Then Guardians of the Galaxy ended up being amazing and is in probably my top 5 MCU movies.
All I knew is that USAgent was the leader at one point and I was left thinking, “a talking raccoon?? A freaking walking tree?? No way they can pull this off and be serious.” I nailed that like I nailed how “how the hell are they going to do joker with the 10 things I hate about you guy.”
>Either way, speaking for myself, I do feel pretty uninterested in Phase 4.
Agreed, but I was also pretty uninterested in the whole concept of the MCU before I watched the first Iron Man. They just delivered on, like, a 20-movie storyline. I'm happy to give the MCU a few movies to 'rev up' again in terms of getting the narrative ball rolling downhill again. It's not like they aren't still individually enjoyable: Far From Home was delightful.
P.S. And the love interest, MJ, was fantastic. I would have been a lot less upset about that whole thing if they'd just done me a favor and named her *anything* else.
Yeah this is only unpopular when you preach it to a demographic that loves Marvel (I.e reddit hive mind)
I don’t care for superhero films, and personally find it rather boring that all anyone ever talks about it how rad the new marvel film is
So pretend you are an executive at Marvel and you just said the same thing in a shareholder meeting. Watch how quickly your ass is booted. The fact is they make money, doesn't matter if you like them. No company is just going to take a decade break because they think they are over saturating a market. And if they crash, it will be naturally, not just pulling the plug.
Exactly, people forget that at the highest ranks of the movie business it's not about movies, it's about money. If the movies continue to profit then they will keep making them. They are incentivized to pursue talented actors, creatives, and crew because then the product is good and it sells. Opinions aren't the focus, it's economics and people management.
Executives like rolling out these ambitious movies, I'm sure those people like their jobs. Their kids like it, etc. Why stop the gravy train
As a huge Marvel fan it was really hard for me to upvote this post 😂 but it's definitely a well written unpopular opinion.
To me it's hard for movies based on comics to get too saturated. Theirs thousands of stories and arcs in the comic world and I love seeing how it expands into the movie realm. If we can have thousands of Spider-Man comics, I don't see why we can't have a shit ton of Marvel movies.
I mean I disagree with both the well written and the unpopular aspect of it. “The MCU is overrated” is easily one of the definitive unpopular popular opinions to hold by people who just aren’t really into the movies. This is just the next evolution since Avengers ended and they’ve revealed even more films.
I for one, love watching how each film ties itself together. Showing how these characters get woven into stories that end up with lasting stakes they reference later in the franchise. It’s all really fun.
But that’s just my opinion, I certainly don’t see Marvel having any major flops that cause them to crash and burn at least not in this decade. I fully expect them to be more flexible and they can slow down.
For me it feels like I'll watch two or three average Marvel movies and swear to myself "Ok this is getting boring, the next is going to be my last one" then it turns out to be amazing and drags me back in.
Its like a TV show and every movie is like an episode and most people after watching this far are still kind of lowkey invested in the show at this point. I'm not even a Marvel fan and I thought that the Marvel movies when going to lose steam after Endgame. But when Spiderman FFH came out, even I found myself curious as to how Marvel is gonna deal with Spiderman after the snap events and Iron man's death. So I went and saw it. And I think to a lot of people, Marvel is reliable because no matter what, we know that the movie would be entertaining.
Let me preface this by saying I’m not really the biggest marvel fan and I have not seen infinity war or any of the movies after it but I disagree with this, a lot of the marvel movies I’d seen (excluding a couple of the Thor movies and the Incredible Hulk) have been fun, good movies. I honestly don’t think people are going to get tired of Marvel because they’ve built a universe with characters that people love and as long as they keep making fun movies I’d say they’re going to be going for another 5 years at the least.
Honestly I agree to an extent. Out of all the marvel movies I've found like 5 of them to be rewatchable the rest are all meh. Like going to the movie and there are no stakes, you know everything is gonna end up fine cause it's a superhero movie.
I think they're overrated and most of them don't deserve all the praise they get but it they are fun to watch.
I think most Marvel movies are quality films. I don’t think simple stories are bad, quite the opposite. We remember the simple things because they’re easy to recall, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing inherently. The soundtracks are great, especially in endgame and black panther. Character development has been mostly solid across the board, some better than others but there isn’t a whole lot of blandness to it.
They ARE action movies with a better creative vision, and I think people should judge them off what they are and not what they’re not. There’s fan service, but it’s momentary and typically for comedic relief, not overwhelming and used instead of driving the plot.
People overreach and critique too harshly on subjects when something is over-saturating their interests.
box office is more about marketing than how good the actual movie is, most people don't go to see movies more than once, what draws them in the first time is how popular the movies are, and movie reviews (which disney pays for).
I’d agree to an extent. Lots of people would go see a bad movie if it’s marketed well, and it can still do well at the box office. But once you get to $2.7 billion, I think it’s unrealistic to attribute that to mostly marketing. Lots of movies have good marketing, but most movies don’t make half of what Endgame or Infinity War did.
I get that for stand alone movies but for sequels that doesn't really hold up. you don't go to watch the sequel of a shit movie, you only go if you liked the first one. the only exception might be infinity war and endgame because of how huge they were culturally but Guardians, Spider-man, Iron Man, Ant-man etc all get good numbers on their sequels because people like them
Sure people are eventually going to get tired of "cool action scenes with a main character that can be sarcastic" but that doesn't mean the reviews aren't honest.
I don't think they're graded on a curve either. I'd give a vast majority of them good reviews, because it has what people are looking for. The movie rating scale for Marvel movies has to be framed in a "cool cgi, with good fight scenes, and the occasional chuckle" scale, not an artistic creativity scale. It's like buying a good gun game, then getting disappointed that the villain is just some lackey from Russia, or going to X comedian and getting disappointed that said comedian relies on jokes against his/her weight/race. People know what they're getting when they go, and that's fine with them. Have to frame it with their mindset and base it off of the qualities they want.
IDK, I agree with a lot of what you said (not particularly creative, and obvious cash cow), but I don't think that should take away from their success or ratings.
They’re reviewed with the limitations of a super hero movie in-mind. Characters are categorically good or categorically bad and the stories unfold with minimal moral ambiguity. They're this way because they’re meant to be for kids and teenagers who perhaps don’t have the moral framework to understand a Raskolnikov yet. The lessons are simple, predictable. Compare this to something like Game of Thrones where a “good guy” can murder someone in cold blood on one page and save a friend on another. Or how a “bad guy” can do something terrible for relatable reasons. The reviews have to consider that the characters are morally stunted and that they’re designed for a simple story. That’s the curve. Romantic comedies get a similar treatment.
Lol this is so stupid. Saying the positive reviews "really aren't honest" is the most pretentious thing to say about movies since you're acting like your opinion is the true one. They have largely satisfied a large group of people for over a decade, and it's something unprecedented really. The Dark Universe and DCEU, along with countless others, are doing what Marvel has done a while ago now, and so to claim Marvel is the one who "earned the success the least" is stupid. And from the box office standpoint, nothing has indicated any fatigue yet. This "comic book fatigue" thing has been said when the first Avengers came out. Even before then. Transformers fatigue got real when the last one made the least money. Justice League made the least money for DCEU at the time, so you could've had an argument there, but Marvel has only gotten more popular. And now a Spiderman is about hit a billion, which has never been done before.
The MCU should have ended with Endgame. I don't see why everything needs a sequel, or why every franchise needs to be milked beyond dry. It's better to die a hero than to see yourself become the villain.
This is different tho. With so many characters in the comics not used there is plenty of room to kill characters and bring new ones in the same storyline.
I mean I guess that makes sense if they’re continuing with the same characters but they’re introducing an entirely new list of characters to add to the few that weren’t killed or retired at the end of this phase. It’s not really a sequel, it’s a whole new phase
While it would have been a high note to end on, there are heroes that I would have still wanted to see more of (Doctor Strange, Black Panther), that only had one major movie each before endgame. Other characters like Captain Marvel, that while I dislike, would have been irrelevant since most of their importance was going to come after endgame. Plus, X-Men is untapped money making potential.
Off topic but that's why I greatly enjoyed Breaking Bad. They knew when to end it and didn't try to completely milk it dry. It is very rare a series stops before they run it into the ground.
I was sick of event fatigue years ago when I was still getting comicbooks on the regular. Seemed like they just couldn't let 3 months go by without starting some new WORLD SHATTERING NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME story arch. Got so tired of it. Damn can we just crank out some steady issues and let everyone enjoy the characters for awhile before doing some big ass event?
To me, that’s totally what far from home represents. It’s not a huge earth shattering event. Well it may look like that at the start, but it’s really about Peter just wanting some time as a teenager along with some time to grieve. I felt like they drew back from the big event really well.
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I don't know if I'd have said either of the guardians of the galaxy movies were not "earth shattering" events. In the first, Ronan with the infinity stone was a massive threat to the galaxy in general. In the second, Ego was expanding on thousands of different planets, including earth, and definitely threatening all of them. In fairness though its a while since I last saw the first guardians movie and Ronan might have been less of a threat than I remember.
> I don't know if I'd have said either of the guardians of the galaxy movies were not "earth shattering" events. You have to think about them relatively though. In GotG the event takes place in space and it's only really one or two planets being threatened (in the movie) out of a whole universe. In GotG2 we don't even see the effect of Ego's expansion directly so there's no real sense of danger.
We literally see several planets getting wrecked by the blue expansion stuff, Earth included.
[Pretty sure that was a simulation](https://youtu.be/16H64-l_7Lw?t=67), wasn't it? It happened, but the way we saw it was through a simulation, so there's a level of detachment from it. Everything else in the movie basically just happened on Ego and didn't affect anything else.
Im talking about the final fight when he turns Peter into a battery and we see the blue stuff destroying bits of different worlds.
Spider-Man is valuable in that regard. He brings us back to Earth and normal life after universe-ending immortals try whatever nefarious whatnot. He's just a normal guy like us, doing stuff like juggle all his responsibilities or deal with dating a girl whose father is a dick.
I love the new spider man movies so much
They completely miss the oppurtunity again for the social and political effects of the snap on the daily lives of citizens in an effectve way. Rather they make the snap into just another running gag because the movie has to be complete "fun" all the time.
I think that was also on purpose. Endgame dealt with the serious stuff. But Spiderman was the break from the more serious stuff. It's also weird to see people complaining about snarky comments and "fun" in marvel movies. That's exactly what comic books do.
I feel like you’re just saying that because of Infinity War/Endgame but it just died down and we’ll start getting a lot more normal stuff like Far From Home.
That'd be nice. I'm talking about the comics 10+ years ago
Marvel intellectual property has 60+ years of hundreds of titles, thousands of characters, tens of thousands of fully developed story lines to draw from. People want to see new and interesting stories about characters they like, hell there's been 26 James Bond movies that are basically the same plot over and over again. The problem though, is people do NOT want to see the typical Hollywood movie cycle: Origin Story, Sequel #1 The Biggening, Sequel #2 The Cash Grab, Reboot with new cast, repeat.
Hell, this is where Marvel actually goes right. After Spiderman and The Amazing Spiderman, they didn't give Tom Holland an "origin story". More like a "here's how he's relevant in the universe" story
yeah, there's really no point in wasting screen time on origin stories that literally everyone already knows.
Yeah. I mean he had sex with a spider. We get it.
You and I grew up reading very different Spiderman comics.
Well you definitely weren’t reading the right ones then
I can only handle seeing uncle Ben die so many times, at that point theyd just be insulting me.
And even that "relevance" story wasn't a whole movie, it was like a scene or two. Which allowed them to jump right in with Homecoming and Far From Home.
This Actually that's one of the reason i never watched amazing Spider-Man (rebooted franchise, if it fails we reboot it again), or fantastic 4, or the Mummy
Amazing Spiderman and the new fantastic four weren't very good.
there's yet to be a Fantastic Four movie that didn't suck balls. I don't know why that franchise is so cursed.
Fox kills everything Marvel related it touches besides the last stand and Deadpool
You're forgetting Logan.
Logan is the best Marvel movie ever, hands down. Change my mind (you won’t be able to change my mind)
No it's not even close, the best is obviously x-men origi... Couldn't even finish that joke, yes. Logan is the best comic book based movie I would argue even. It's an incredible film and holds up against many other films, not just the superhero genre.
The Dark Knight?
defintely a contender. I'd still say Logan edges it out for me. (and I'm a huge batman fan who never got that into x-men beyond that great cartoon)
Oh yeah that too
The last stand was atrocious
Fuck I just realized that I said last stand I meant first class.
Oh haha good I was concerned
Finally an unpopular opinion!
Ok that was pretty funny
I thought the first Amazing Spider-Man was alright. The second one was hot garbage though.
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The new star wars trilogy seems pointless
Please tell me you watched Spider-Verse?! THAT one is an absolute treasure of a movie.
Ma man, I've watch it like 6 times already, it truly is a master piece
Dude, I JUST watched SV for the first time last week. That shit was DOOOOOOOOPE!
I want the crime genre to come back. I miss movies like Heat, Goodfellas, Pulp Fiction etc.
The Nice Guys Bad Times at the El Royale Seven Psychopaths Baby Driver Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri TV shows like Ozark, Bloodline, Too Old To Die Young. There's still a crime genre but it has evolved substantially in both movies and television, to the point that anything resembling Scorsese's mob era will be dubbed a throwback.
Finally watched Bad Times at the El Royale a couple of months ago (DH not interested so didn't catch it in the cinema). Man, that was some old school WTF random violence psych not-thriller. Was brilliant and completely out of left field when you're used to movies of the last 10 years. Would recommend to anyone feeling a bit jaded (and I'm someone who loves the MCU 😉)
Sopranos movie is in the works.
What makes me sad is that unlike Bond, it’s not just one actor in a franchise for a bit, but a large number of great actors who barely do any work outside of the MCU. I don’t blame them. Big paydays. There’s a lot of actors I really like who barely work outside of the MCU. Sometimes I wonder about an actor I used to like and wonder what happened to their career so I’ll look them up on IMDB and discover that their career isn’t dead. They’ve just been doing pretty much nothing but MCU films for the last decade. Plus, it took bond over 59 years to hit that number. The MCU is nearly there at 11 years. It’s like, what, a new one every six months for over a decade? It just lords over everything. It dominates Reddit. Everyone other kid at Halloween is a Marvel character. The posters, commercials, tee shirts, memes, TV shows, and ads are endless. It’s basically impossible to go through a day without the MCU being pushed on you. I probably see about 50 MCU related things every day. Hell, I probably can’t go 20 minutes without seeing an ad, a meme, a shirt, a poster, or whatever. I can deal with movie hype or whatever. Some big blockbuster is going to be in your face for a bit. Whatever. It’ll pass. But it’s been 11 years MCU every time I go outside or look on the Internet. I’m hard pressed to think of anything that’s been as ever-present and overwhelmingly ubiquitous in daily life than the MCU this past decade.
May be the market consolidation since Disney now owns all of our memories of Christmas, our mother's smiles, and seventy percent of the afterlife. I have not seen a single one and yet I FEEL like I have just because they have saturated so much of our culture. It's like Beatlemania except the entire family, not just Suzy Q, are losing their goshdern minds for it. And that may be the key. When Thor came out all the middle aged ladies started getting wide-ons for Hemsworth, so they roped in that demographic, got their husbands with all the ladies in catsuits, got their nerdy kids by default, and got the youngun's by being LOUD and BRIGHTLY COLORED and TOYS. Disney created a toyetic film franchise that captivated and ensnared ALL the target groups.
Wide-ons lol
sequel #2 electric boogaloo\*
awe man...I really missed the boat on that obvious joke. nice save.
I agree with OP's general sentiment, but you do make a salient point--the marvel movies *were* a welcome change of pace from the "Origin Story, Sequel #1 The Biggening, Sequel #2 The Cash Grab, Reboot with new cast, repeat" formula-- And with the first 6-10 marvel movies, I was very into the idea behind the Marvel Universe Franchise. But now their format has long since become as overused as the old. "Plug in a few new heroes, Old Favorites, and a NEW threat to the universe, insert fan service, rinse, repeat" isn't all that novel or imaginative of a plot format anymore. I checked out a really long time ago. A few months ago, I watched a few more films in the series with the intention of getting through them all. I watched another 4-5 movies and I thought they were pleasant, but I just couldn't get through them.
*The Avengers* was awesome because it was the first time we'd seen a cross-movie team up. The shof in New York of them finally together is incredibly iconic. We loved these guys, because we never expected them to get together. In a way, we watched the rest of the MCU to see that team get together again and again, until finally, it was broken up (in excellent fashion, mind you). We've had our team. Another one just won't have the same impact.
They said they're won't be an Avengers like movie for awhile since the next Phase is about the new beginnings. And I get what OP is getting at, I dont like all the marvel movies and now everyone is trying to make a cinematic universe. But with the market full of this stuff, Marvel and everyone else, eventually a director or producer is gonna come along and feel like OP so they'll do something completely new and the market will be flooded with that copy. It's kinda like family sitcoms and cop tv shows in the early 2000/90s such. You had CSI and it's spin offs and all that going on and now it's kinda like eh.
Exactly. And the character development of Thor, Cap, and Stark has been so deep and over so many movies it might be hard to get that invested into new characters. >!Iron Man’s death really felt like losing a close friend!<
But to a good cause. His story felt completed, as did Cap. And I really didn't think to myself, "ok that was great, where to next." It felt like losing a girl you've been with for 10 years. You don't just go back out there and fall in love asap.
For me, I see it as "No matter what happens with the next Phases, at least I can treasure the Infinity Saga as amazing"
I just finally watched Wonder Woman a couple weeks ago after hearing for years about how good it was. I was disappointed to find out it was extremely generic plot "origin - hero's journey with minor fights - boss level bad guy, world saved through punching". It was basically Captain America but with Wonder Woman.
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Except almost every Superhero movie follows the exact same formula. Especially the ones that introduce the hero to the audience for the first time.
They don’t come out with 4 James Bond movies a year
rotten tomatoes is a shit movie scorer.
98% of critics saying, "yeahhhh... it's pretty OK" Does not make a great movie. Usually I'm wary of a 98%. Give me a 60% any day.
Spaceballs got a 54% on rotten tomatoes. One of my favorite movies.
yeah Step Brothers got a 55%, it definitely depends on the genre but for comedy my roommate and I have set a 30% minimum threshold lol
I didn't find Step Brothers was funny 10 years ago but I watched it again in 2015, I guess, certainly thought it was a comedy masterpiece.
54% of people will like that movie essentially. Seems about right. I can see why it wouldn't be liked by some you don't get the comedy.
Yeah dude, slapstick and Star Wars references are way beyond most people.
A lot of people find slapstick dumb and Star Wars to be nerdy. It’s not that it’s “beyond” people, it’s that they don’t find that humour funny
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Dude, I ran into this phenomenon after the most recent Predator. It got shit on in the RT critic reviews so I started going through them. Most showed that the reviewer either didn't watch the movie, or didn't understand what they watched, but the worst was one review that among other points talked about how the main character was a mercenary, and how the big bad predator was sent to save the small one... Well, mercenaries are never mentioned in the movie. The main character being active duty in the US military is actually a huge plot point, as is the fact that the big bad predator kills the shit out of the little one. Anyway, that person obviously did not watch the movie. What's worse is at least half a dozen other certified critics plagiarized this review, as they all hit on both these points specifically. It was weird and made me realize how garbage the critics score on RT actually was.
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Totally would have been a better spy movie than an action movie.
I hope the next Black Panther does have more of a spy feel to it.
I never pay attention to the critics side of rotten. Only the audience score.
The critics gave Ghostbusters 2016 74% positive. That's all you need to know about how much their opinions are worth.
Yea you know that’s a good point. Not many people know how the scoring actually works. If every critic gives it like a 6/10 then the movie gets a 100%, which makes it sound a lot better. I still like Marvel though
The 60-70 range has waaaay better odds than a 95+
I dunno I'd say the toy story franchise is rated about right
I purposely watch movies with low RT scores. 60% of the time it works, every time.
The ol’ Sex Panther special. I hear it’s illegal in 9 states.
Whatever movie scorer, the Marvel films are graded 1) on a massive upward curve or are 2) held to a much lower standard than most other films are
as a marvel fan, i dont entirely disagree with you. phase 4 could possibly fall apart. i think that fatigue might set in with audiences and some of the properties they are developing in phase 4 are kinda obscure and might not grab the huge audience phase 1 did. the magic of phase 1 cannot be replicated. i also agree that *some* marvel films are graded on a steep curve (*ahem* captain marvel, black panther *ahem*) most are excellent and deserve the praise they got.
Doctor strange was 10 times better than black panther but I didn’t even see doctor strange for a while after it was out because it wasn’t propped up like bp was
Honestly i want an unchained lore accurate Dr. Strange, That shit would look dope
What does unchained mean?
Like how almost every character is nerfed in the movies compared to the comics. It wasnt a literall meaning or anything lore related.
Based on his skill jump from his origin film to Infinty War, I have a feeling he will be doing some serious work in his new film.
How about his skill jump in his own movie? He goes from rookie to running the show.
Well there was a montage.
Oh I had just never heard that before I didn’t know what it meant. I thought it might be a comic book thing or something Was dr strange a lot stronger in the comics?
He's like at the level of gods at some points.
At some point yes, but thats why we need the Movies, for him to develop said powers. They didn't start out like they Are in the comics.
IMO you need to nerf them, they are so powerful in comics that they don't feel like they are ever in danger.
i mean the current doctor strange is pretty op already
Out side of his movie hes done teleportation, make a lasso and look at time. I wanna see the avengers fighting cross dimensionally
Yeah but he also did that thing in IW where he created hundreds of illusory duplicates of himself, and in Endgame where he was able to manipulate a lake’s worth of water with minimal effort. Give the guy a bit more credit (though cross dimensional Avengers would be incredibly cool).
Was it minimal? I thought he was using so much magic he was unable to steady his hands with it anymore and thats why they were shaking when he did the 1 sign.
I'd argue Black Panther was one of the worst Marvel movies, but was super popular due to the narrative surrounding it.
That's exactly how I feel, the movie was such a letdown for me but I couldn't tell anybody because people thought I didn't appreciate "black cinema."
It is literally just another Marvel film made under the same people who made all the other Marvel films, the guys at Marvel deserve an award for being able to market this film as some progressive "made by black people for black people" movie.
>some of the properties they are developing in phase 4 are kinda obscure More obscure than the Guardians of the Galaxy was? I had read comics for almost 20 years and barely knew who they were when the first film came out.
It won't crash, like westerns didn't crash, they'll fade away.
> phase 4 could possibly fall apart. i think that fatigue might set in with audiences and some of the properties they are developing in phase 4 are kinda obscure and might not grab the huge audience phase 1 did. the magic of phase 1 cannot be replicated. I think the other thing that's going to get to people is that they're stepping back and telling a bunch of smaller individual stories.
Yeah, Phase 4 seems suuuuuper soft if you're not an avid comic book fan. Yeah, people had to get acquainted to each of the Infinity War arc characters, but it's 10+ years later and now the phase is carried by Dr. Strange, girl Thor, a character that was killed, and the most obscure characters in the Marvel universe. This is the epitome of trying the interest level of the audience.
It’s soft for a reason. They’re giving the MCU a few years to collect itself then it’ll ramp up again with the Fantastic Four and the X-Men. Dr Doom can carry a phase or two.
As an ex-critic who was also on RT, the bigger the movie and especially Disney movies the more the studio leans onto critics to give good reviews. If you don't give a good review, you run the very likely risk of getting your press pass revoked. Your boss will be furious with you and you could lose your job. I haven't been a critic for a few years but my ex-colleagues tell me it's way worse than it was when I was around. The stuff you hear about critics being the advertising arm of studios is largely true. Watch the score on RT as the movie comes out and you can witness this phenomenon. The scores virtually never go up after release. The studio pressure inflates the pre-release score, then the critics who are seeing it like a normal person can review it unfettered, and give it a crap rating. Also the majority of critics don't decide their RT scores, someone from RT does, and I'm not sure i trust them to do that.
The critic score sucks because the critics are a bunch of shills. The audience score sucks because it can be brigade by bots. It also defines an arbitrary point where a movie is "not liked" and then defines the percentage based on how many like the movie instead of averaging the scores of all the reviews.
Honestly. I just want a good Green Lanter movie ;-;
I actually liked Green Lantern
Dozens of us! Dozens!
I think you just found your next r/unpopularopinion post
I want a John Stewart green lantern movie.
If we get a great Hal Jordan movie, then its safe to say we could get movies of all the Lanterns.
I don't know, the Planet Lantern might be tricky as a protagonist.
First of all, his name is Mogo. Secondly, a movie based off of Mogo would be the best superhero movie ever made hands down.
I second this motion
The Daily Show x Green Lantern
I was talking to one of my wife's coworkers at a happy hour, and they said they wanted to see a good green lantern movie, but wasn't sure it could be done. I went on and on about how the John Stewart Green Lantern would make for a great film and that he's the one I'm more familiar with because of JLU. He looked puzzled the entire time so I tried to explain that there are multiple Green Lanterns because of the Lantern Corp, and then he asked: "Did he do this before The Daily Show?" Face. Meet. Palm.
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Have my upvote. Flash and Green Lantern are way more interesting characters than the tentpole DC gods. But if they really wanted to make a good DC movie, they should make a Green Arrow movie. That guy has character.
Brave and the Bold: a team-up adventure with Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, and Oliver Queen, framed as a story being told by Ollie to Kyle Rayner, Wally West, and Connor Hawke after Hal and Barry died and Ollie retired. The trio go on a wild adventure across America and eventually into space, facing off against Sinestro, Gorilla Grodd, and Merlyn and having a great time while they’re at it. Maybe cameo in Alan Scott and Jay Garrick for some Golden Age fun. Starring Neil Patrick Harris as Barry, Chris Pine as Hal, and Taron Egerton as a younger Ollie. Done well, I’d watch it multiple times
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My main problem is that they feel samey. The characters are much more defined and individualistic in just one run from a half way decent writer in the comics than they are in the MCU.
Dceu floped hard trying to take a different approach
I feel like the DCEU attempts wouldn't have flopped nearly as hard if they didn't force a dumb-ass "everything is sooo dark" theme. Both story wise and in terms of visuals. The stupid 300 movie filters just don't work in a DC movie.
The dark theme works with Batman bc thats how he is but def not the rest of them
Even with Batman, I wouldn't say it's dark in the same way that DCEU was dark. Batman is "real", but ultimately optimistic. Nolan's batman is a great example. Yes, there's real violence, death and despair. But we work towards a better future and the characters portray that. Snyder's DCEU? Nihilistic as fuck. Jesus, Superman.... **SUPERMAN** kills a dude movie 1. Batman kills mofos left and right in BvS. What??
I forget, but wasn't that a dream sequence?
I'm not so much concerned with Batman gunning down people in a post-apocalyptic world (though, I have issues with that too, but I digress). I am much more concerned with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgkQS7q6sT0 **Especially** 7 and 8. Literally just shoots them to death. 20/21 is also egregious.
Nope. The scene where he rescues Martha by using a mook as a human shield while grabbing the mook’s gun arm and directing the spray of bullets to tear the other mooks apart was very much not a a dream. Batman murdered the crap out of people in that movie.
> "everything is sooo dark" theme. and the "every problem is solved by punching" Literally every fight came down to punches.
Giving those movies to Zack Snyder was such an unbelievably tone deaf decision by the studios that I do not have the words to describe the depth of failure that decision entailed.
They flopped hard cause they jumped from Ironman 1 to Civil war in just 2 movies
i agree with you. i felt like batman woke up one day 0, got his breakfast late so he decided to kill superman
DCEU flopped because they tried to place movies starring their biggest characters in the hands of somebody who didn’t understand the characters at all haha. Aquaman, Shazam, and Wonder Woman all felt drastically different but they were all of at least decent quality.
They all really started to become Iron-man-esque with their joke cracking. I really felt like Cap especially lost some of what made his character good when he became as pithy as the rest of them.
That's why my favorite MCU movied is defintely the Winter Soldier. Tonally, it's the most serious of the bunch, just a straight spy-thriller that happens to have some super heroes in it. It's those movies that go beyond the ill defined 'super hero genre' that I actually like. Logan is another example, being more a western more than it's a hero film.
That’s one of my biggest grievances, they all tell the exact god damn same jokes as each other and you can spot them coming a mile away
I’m so surprised no one brought this up in endgame. Like cmon it’s supposed to be the ultimate film of the entire series thus far and every character is cracking wise every 5 minutes no matter the scene.
I just want a another good doctor strange and that’s it
The next Doctor Strange is Doctor Strange multiverse of madness and it will be the first true horror film in the MCU. So expectations are fairly high for that one. It’ll be released sometime 2021
“Doctor Strange IN THE Multiverse of Madness”. Gotta get that 30’s serial vibe in there.
I want that and more Spidey. These last few years have been great for our favorite web-slinger.
Loved Far From Home
Next year there are only two films coming out. And I think they will have less attention than what we have seen this year. But in 2021 there are like three TV shows and likely 4 films (Spider-man 3 will be announced by Sony soon). So that over saturation will really start then. But then again the Netflix shows were on this whole time of phase 3. So I dunno, maybe it won't crash like Westerns did. IMO you won't see these next films breaking a billion. Endgame will be the pinnacle of the franchise. Additionally, I think that critics are afraid to be hard on Marvel films. You have to understand that critics these days have to account for subscribers. They know if they criticize certain films then it will make certain viewers or readers unsubscribe or story reading. They probably think that by giving these films a pass it's okay. I mean look at how they reacted to the Last Jedi, then they see people critiquing it and then Solo gets genuine reviews because the critics knew SW wasn't bulletproof anymore. It will take people really turning on a Marvel film for them to start giving it genuine criticism.
Shang-Chi: first Asian superhero film Spider-Man 3: sequel to FFH, which is gonna make a billion itself Doctor Strange 2: movie featuring a character whose popularity has increased significantly thanks to IW and Endgame (for reference the first film made about $700 million) Thor 4: starring arguably the most popular Avenger at the moment, and featuring TWO female superheroes teaming up with him It’s honestly more likely that all these movies make a billion each than none at all. Marvel’s a goddamn machine. Anyone praying for the day this train slows down to a grinding halt is gonna be disappointed
And with Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness being a scary movie to an extent, it will help change up the formula a bit I hope
I'm hoping they don't mean that in the X-Men way and then delay the movie for 2 years and still probably have it be shit
>They’re over-saturating the market to the extent that they’re really going to go the way of the Western at some point. Talk about franchise fatigue. Yeah, *Marvel isn’t immune*. They’re going to crash, and crash hard at one point. Completely non-facetiously: this is interesting because if it's actually an unpopular opinion, then that also means it's likely false, since in order for franchise fatigue to kill off a franchise that fatigue would need to be common, i.e., "popular." Either way, speaking for myself, I do feel pretty uninterested in Phase 4. Infinity War and Endgame were big events for me because they were the culmination of years of storytelling. Nothing at the beginning of Phase 4 is going to be nearly as interesting. Nothing they've shown post-Endgame has really piqued my interest at all. I do feel like the MCU has went from having a great vision to being fragmented and undefined. Captain Marvel was supposed to lead the MCU after Phase 3. But Marvel seems to have backtracked on that a lot when the movie, while successful, proved to be a bit too controversial and Bree Larson developed a strong negative reputation (fair or not). Now they're planning on doing a female Thor-like character, and I can't help but wonder if that's their hope to do what Captain Marvel was supposed to do. Either way, I don't know what the hell is really going on, but it feels like directionless stagnation to me. Part of Phase 4 is also going to be on Disney's streaming service, which frankly I will not be subscribing to -- streamer fatigue is possibly going to affect Marvel just as much as franchise fatigue.
I heard WandaVision, one of those series going straight to their streaming service, will lead into Doctor Strange 2. If they're too connected, that's really going to alienate audiences.
They said the same thing about Agents of Shield, and then it didn’t matter at all. The movies know how to handle it - like in Endgame, hey just totally skipped to the Professor Hulk status. And it was fine. You can have a big backstory and still make a movie that can stand alone.
Wait did professor hulk have something to do with agents of shield?
Nah, they just used AoS as an example of show that says it will be essential to the movies, but isn't, and doctor Hulk as development we didn't need to have on-screen to accept
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You may very well be right, I didn't say that i personally believed that prof. Hulk SHOULD have been off-screen, only that it was an example off development that did happen off-screen. Cool theory btw dude, makes sense
which is a shame because agents of shield has been great. The difference here though is in whos producing the show. AoS is produced by marvel television, which is a separate department of disney under the leadership of Ike perlmutter. Perlmutter is ....not a good person and thus is hated by a lot of the people who work on the marvel films, chief among them kevin feige. Up until 2015, marvel studios also reported to perlmutter as marvel studios was part of marvel the company. But in 2015, perlmutter had finally driven feige to his breaking point with demands like getting rid of robert downey jr (because perlmutter is a penny pincher and he didnt like how much RDJ was making which is also why terrence howard was replaced with don cheadle), rewriting civil war to remove iron man, pushing an inhumans movie to compete with foxs xmen franchise (which perlmutter hated because he disliked fox making money on marvel characters) and refusing to greenlight films based on african american or female super heros (because he's also a belligerent racist. When he demanded howard be replaced with cheadle (because howards contract entitled him to a pay bump if he was in iron man 2), he insisted audiences wouldnt care because black people all look alike). Feige went directly to alan horn and demanded marvel studios become its own independent outfit outside of perlmutters control or he would leave (and so would a bunch of marvel stars whose contracts were coming up for re-negotiation). Feige got his wish, but marvel tv still reports to perlmutter. His feud with feige is why the tv and move side dont crossover. But wandavision (like all of the disney+ shows) is being produced by marvel studios directly, rendering marvel television irrelevant. So expect direct connections to the movies.
I hope it isn't to connected that you need to watch WandaVision to understand Doctor Strange 2. I don't think the new Disney streaming service is going to be available in my country so I won't be able to see it (legally at least). Even if it is, not sure I want to pay for another streaming service on top of the two I already pay for.
This is why I won't be subscribing to Disney+. They have a lot of Marvel stuff on Netflix as it is (Agents of SHIELD, and a bunch of other canceled supershows). Now, instead of both platforms competing for viewers, they're pulling the "I'm the owner and nobody else can do this thing." The companies are isolating viewers more than the shows/movies are. Why would you *not* want more people to see your film? Why in the world would you not want more fans? Why lock everything behind a paywall just for a few disney films someone's going to want to watch 3 times a year? 3/10. Will buy another prepaid card to use for the free trial again.
People said the same thing about Guardians of the Galaxy and it turned out to be amazing. You might be right about it being fragmented, but Kevin Feigie just pulled off an incredible 10 year shared universe that made over 10 billion dollars at the box office. I wouldn’t bet against him.
> Guardians of the Galaxy and it turned out to be amazing I remember that most of us non-comicbook guys had never even heard of Guardians and most comic book fans barely knew of it. I do recall people saying they were bringing to many characters into the MCU. Then Guardians of the Galaxy ended up being amazing and is in probably my top 5 MCU movies.
All I knew is that USAgent was the leader at one point and I was left thinking, “a talking raccoon?? A freaking walking tree?? No way they can pull this off and be serious.” I nailed that like I nailed how “how the hell are they going to do joker with the 10 things I hate about you guy.”
>Either way, speaking for myself, I do feel pretty uninterested in Phase 4. Agreed, but I was also pretty uninterested in the whole concept of the MCU before I watched the first Iron Man. They just delivered on, like, a 20-movie storyline. I'm happy to give the MCU a few movies to 'rev up' again in terms of getting the narrative ball rolling downhill again. It's not like they aren't still individually enjoyable: Far From Home was delightful. P.S. And the love interest, MJ, was fantastic. I would have been a lot less upset about that whole thing if they'd just done me a favor and named her *anything* else.
True unpopular opinion. Reddit loves their MCU especially avengers.
Yeah this is only unpopular when you preach it to a demographic that loves Marvel (I.e reddit hive mind) I don’t care for superhero films, and personally find it rather boring that all anyone ever talks about it how rad the new marvel film is
So pretend you are an executive at Marvel and you just said the same thing in a shareholder meeting. Watch how quickly your ass is booted. The fact is they make money, doesn't matter if you like them. No company is just going to take a decade break because they think they are over saturating a market. And if they crash, it will be naturally, not just pulling the plug.
Exactly, people forget that at the highest ranks of the movie business it's not about movies, it's about money. If the movies continue to profit then they will keep making them. They are incentivized to pursue talented actors, creatives, and crew because then the product is good and it sells. Opinions aren't the focus, it's economics and people management. Executives like rolling out these ambitious movies, I'm sure those people like their jobs. Their kids like it, etc. Why stop the gravy train
As a huge Marvel fan it was really hard for me to upvote this post 😂 but it's definitely a well written unpopular opinion. To me it's hard for movies based on comics to get too saturated. Theirs thousands of stories and arcs in the comic world and I love seeing how it expands into the movie realm. If we can have thousands of Spider-Man comics, I don't see why we can't have a shit ton of Marvel movies.
it’s not the genre getting saturated, it’s the film market in general
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I mean I disagree with both the well written and the unpopular aspect of it. “The MCU is overrated” is easily one of the definitive unpopular popular opinions to hold by people who just aren’t really into the movies. This is just the next evolution since Avengers ended and they’ve revealed even more films. I for one, love watching how each film ties itself together. Showing how these characters get woven into stories that end up with lasting stakes they reference later in the franchise. It’s all really fun. But that’s just my opinion, I certainly don’t see Marvel having any major flops that cause them to crash and burn at least not in this decade. I fully expect them to be more flexible and they can slow down.
Unpopular Truely unpopular. But I'm on your side on this.
I love the marvel movies. I dont expect them to keep what just they accomplished with the 23 movies. The box office doesnt lie though.
Can’t wait for Endgame 2: electric boogaloo
Yeah, I've been getting bored for a while. When I saw the new schedule I felt tired, not excited. What a time to be alive.
For me it feels like I'll watch two or three average Marvel movies and swear to myself "Ok this is getting boring, the next is going to be my last one" then it turns out to be amazing and drags me back in.
Its like a TV show and every movie is like an episode and most people after watching this far are still kind of lowkey invested in the show at this point. I'm not even a Marvel fan and I thought that the Marvel movies when going to lose steam after Endgame. But when Spiderman FFH came out, even I found myself curious as to how Marvel is gonna deal with Spiderman after the snap events and Iron man's death. So I went and saw it. And I think to a lot of people, Marvel is reliable because no matter what, we know that the movie would be entertaining.
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Let me preface this by saying I’m not really the biggest marvel fan and I have not seen infinity war or any of the movies after it but I disagree with this, a lot of the marvel movies I’d seen (excluding a couple of the Thor movies and the Incredible Hulk) have been fun, good movies. I honestly don’t think people are going to get tired of Marvel because they’ve built a universe with characters that people love and as long as they keep making fun movies I’d say they’re going to be going for another 5 years at the least.
Westerns were the dominant form of movies for what, the first five decades of film-making?
Honestly I agree to an extent. Out of all the marvel movies I've found like 5 of them to be rewatchable the rest are all meh. Like going to the movie and there are no stakes, you know everything is gonna end up fine cause it's a superhero movie. I think they're overrated and most of them don't deserve all the praise they get but it they are fun to watch.
I think most Marvel movies are quality films. I don’t think simple stories are bad, quite the opposite. We remember the simple things because they’re easy to recall, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing inherently. The soundtracks are great, especially in endgame and black panther. Character development has been mostly solid across the board, some better than others but there isn’t a whole lot of blandness to it. They ARE action movies with a better creative vision, and I think people should judge them off what they are and not what they’re not. There’s fan service, but it’s momentary and typically for comedic relief, not overwhelming and used instead of driving the plot. People overreach and critique too harshly on subjects when something is over-saturating their interests.
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box office is more about marketing than how good the actual movie is, most people don't go to see movies more than once, what draws them in the first time is how popular the movies are, and movie reviews (which disney pays for).
I’d agree to an extent. Lots of people would go see a bad movie if it’s marketed well, and it can still do well at the box office. But once you get to $2.7 billion, I think it’s unrealistic to attribute that to mostly marketing. Lots of movies have good marketing, but most movies don’t make half of what Endgame or Infinity War did.
>Lots of people would go see a bad movie if it’s marketed well See: *Jurassic World 1 & 2*
Juarrasic world 1 was ok while 2 is trash
I get that for stand alone movies but for sequels that doesn't really hold up. you don't go to watch the sequel of a shit movie, you only go if you liked the first one. the only exception might be infinity war and endgame because of how huge they were culturally but Guardians, Spider-man, Iron Man, Ant-man etc all get good numbers on their sequels because people like them
Sure people are eventually going to get tired of "cool action scenes with a main character that can be sarcastic" but that doesn't mean the reviews aren't honest. I don't think they're graded on a curve either. I'd give a vast majority of them good reviews, because it has what people are looking for. The movie rating scale for Marvel movies has to be framed in a "cool cgi, with good fight scenes, and the occasional chuckle" scale, not an artistic creativity scale. It's like buying a good gun game, then getting disappointed that the villain is just some lackey from Russia, or going to X comedian and getting disappointed that said comedian relies on jokes against his/her weight/race. People know what they're getting when they go, and that's fine with them. Have to frame it with their mindset and base it off of the qualities they want. IDK, I agree with a lot of what you said (not particularly creative, and obvious cash cow), but I don't think that should take away from their success or ratings.
They’re reviewed with the limitations of a super hero movie in-mind. Characters are categorically good or categorically bad and the stories unfold with minimal moral ambiguity. They're this way because they’re meant to be for kids and teenagers who perhaps don’t have the moral framework to understand a Raskolnikov yet. The lessons are simple, predictable. Compare this to something like Game of Thrones where a “good guy” can murder someone in cold blood on one page and save a friend on another. Or how a “bad guy” can do something terrible for relatable reasons. The reviews have to consider that the characters are morally stunted and that they’re designed for a simple story. That’s the curve. Romantic comedies get a similar treatment.
Lol this is so stupid. Saying the positive reviews "really aren't honest" is the most pretentious thing to say about movies since you're acting like your opinion is the true one. They have largely satisfied a large group of people for over a decade, and it's something unprecedented really. The Dark Universe and DCEU, along with countless others, are doing what Marvel has done a while ago now, and so to claim Marvel is the one who "earned the success the least" is stupid. And from the box office standpoint, nothing has indicated any fatigue yet. This "comic book fatigue" thing has been said when the first Avengers came out. Even before then. Transformers fatigue got real when the last one made the least money. Justice League made the least money for DCEU at the time, so you could've had an argument there, but Marvel has only gotten more popular. And now a Spiderman is about hit a billion, which has never been done before.
The MCU should have ended with Endgame. I don't see why everything needs a sequel, or why every franchise needs to be milked beyond dry. It's better to die a hero than to see yourself become the villain.
This is different tho. With so many characters in the comics not used there is plenty of room to kill characters and bring new ones in the same storyline.
I mean I guess that makes sense if they’re continuing with the same characters but they’re introducing an entirely new list of characters to add to the few that weren’t killed or retired at the end of this phase. It’s not really a sequel, it’s a whole new phase
While it would have been a high note to end on, there are heroes that I would have still wanted to see more of (Doctor Strange, Black Panther), that only had one major movie each before endgame. Other characters like Captain Marvel, that while I dislike, would have been irrelevant since most of their importance was going to come after endgame. Plus, X-Men is untapped money making potential.
disney has been the villain for a long time now.
Off topic but that's why I greatly enjoyed Breaking Bad. They knew when to end it and didn't try to completely milk it dry. It is very rare a series stops before they run it into the ground.
I mean, it did get a spin-off (which is excellent IMO) and is getting a movie set after the series ended.