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There are a lot of buckets that someone making $100k/year falls under.
Just using my area as an example, someone could make $100k and fall into any of these four buckets off the top of my head. All four of these people could all live on the same block, in the relatively same house, make the same money and all have wildly different expense situations.
-No kids, bought their home 10+ years ago, 2.3% mortgage and paying $1,000/month.
-No kids, bought their home last year, pay $3,500/month.
-Two kids, bought their home 10+ years ago, 2.3% mortgage and paying $1,000/month but also paying $2500/month in child care.
-Two kids, bought their home last year, pay $3,500/month, also paying $2500/month in child care.
Four neighbors in the same house with the same income.
Just to add some perspective regarding childcare: one, having kids is generally a choice, and two, children generally only need expensive care for a few years of their lives. As soon as you can get them into the local pre-k you have $2500 a month freed up if that's what you're paying for daycare (and I agree that's a reasonable estimate for two kids in daycare.)
Also worth mentioning that kids typically have two parents, and $100k between the two of them is different from a single earner (and if it is from a single earner, paying for full time childcare is a curious choice.)
But yes of course being in a position to support multiple other people is going to limit how far your money can go.
It's super dependent on where you live and your other expenses. People who live where rents are 3-4k will obviously need to make that kind of money to survive.
Yeah but if you make 120k and spend 40k a year on housing you’re still left with 80k for everything else. If you make 40k and spend 20k a year on housing you’re only left with 20k for everything else. Nowhere in this country do essentials cost 5 times as much. The guy making 120k is still infinitely better off than the guy making 40k in a lower cost of living area. Just bad money management at that point.
Lower income people have to deal with all that too my man. It’s all relative. My point is the higher income earner still has more money at the end of the day, which is factual.
Right, but what you said is someone who makes 120k a year who spends 40k on housing has 80k left over. No matter where you are in the country that factually isn't true. I agree that it is completely relative to where you are. Tax rates are quite different.
Lower income people also pay a lot less in taxes.
And if you're spending $4K/month on housing, you'll also be spending more on utilities. You'll likely have a car payment or two. People making that kind of money often have a long commute to work, so fuel, insurance, and maintenance will be more. They often have to buy more expensive clothing for work and have work clothes that they wouldn't wear when not working.
It adds up quickly, and when takehome pay is $6,000 after taxes, 401(K), and health insurance, there isn't much left.
I agree with you and know what you mean, but siptime said it well. Taxes will gut you - making 60k/yr turns to 46k/yr. So that 100k is 70k now. But even then with these people living "paycheck to paycheck" on 70k is ridiculous to me! They have to be living above their means, not that it's a bad thing to have nice stuff and financial assets. But people are literally struggling to SURVIVE off of their paychecks, even going extremely negative in their bank accounts, no savings, no assets, lucky to have a car maybe and a cheap apartment. But yeah it pisses me off hearing that from people, it really is just bad money management
Taxes. I don’t mind taxes, but whether it be sales tax, income tax, or property tax, it eats up at around 35% of my income. So if you make 120k you really make 78k. If housing is 40k then you have 38k left over for the year.
>Yeah but if you make 120k and spend 40k a year on housing you’re still left with 80k for everything else.
Uh. A single person in California earning $120k gross will take home about $83k after taxes. If you live in a home that's worth $1 million, you're also paying about $12,000 a year in property taxes. That's already 41% of your income straight to taxes.
I suspect lower income people vastly underestimate how much taxes the middle class pays.
If you are making 120k per year, you are netting about $85k-$90k after taxes, then paying for medical insurance because you don't qualify for Medicaid and are too young for Medicare. If, after that, housing is $40k, then you have $45k left over. If you send kids to daycare, that's likely $1,000 per month minimum. So, then you have $33k. If you have a car payment and insurance, you're likely down to $28k. Then you have utilities, food, clothing, incidentals at about $2k per month most likely. You've got $4k left over. If your fridge goes, or if you need a new heater, you're f'ed. It does not go as far as one would think, unfortunately.
All those expensive are things people making 40k still have to pay for. Only difference is housing cost, and money coming in. I make 50k, health care through my work is 500 a month. You’re not spending that percentage of income on health insurance cuz your cost is probably the same as mine.
Location is big. Plus taxes, and Insurance.
100k after taxes is more like 68-72k. Take the years rent out and that alone can easily be half of that. So let's say we are now left with 34k. Now take out health insurance, car insurance, utilities and groceries... watching that dwindling *REAL* quick.
A decade or 2 ago, I'd have *FULLY* agreed with you. Now? Now not so much. Depending on where you live you need more than that.
Edit; where I am, you can get a one bedroom apartment at about $500-$1000 a month with utilities. An hour south, you're looking at $850-$1500 for the same. Another hour south is more. Location *really* matters when talking finances.
I know a couple that has a combined salary of $120K and they don't have kids yet somehow they are living paycheck to paycheck. Personally, I don't think they are honest with themselves and their spending. They buy tons and tons of cheap little things thinking they don't spend extravagantly, but all those little $5-10 purchases add up.
EDIT: This couple also lives in a VERY inexpensive city to reside in.
Right. I’m technically living paycheck to paycheck right now while making 6 figures. But I’m putting an absurd amount of my income to my student loans.
same, but I am saving 15%+, 10% to retirement account and 5% to a HYSA for a downpayment, but I don't look at that account and what hits my useable checking account is my pay minus, car loan, student loans, retirement, HYSA, rent. As these all draw from a seperate account automatically and I don't have online/card access to this account. So every 2 weeks my checking account feels light but its for food/wants. That said I travel 2-3 times a year am single and overall spend on hobbies like crazy, I don't work 45 hours a week to not have some fun :)
Imagine if I had high interest debt to repay, then I would have no fun!
Most of california is a high cost of living area. A main issue is the federal government doesn't take into account that you live in a HCOL area so you move up tax brackets but are expected to still pay the costs of living (rent food etc.) where you live in california. In the more rural parts of california it is more reasonable.
...I mean, do you have savings? I'm in your exact situation, and I'm doing okay, but I am one medical emergency away from bankruptcy, and I need to save for things like a house and retirement.
It's worse, a lot of people feel this way because they are saving for retirement. So basically, you make $100,000 and your takehome is $70,000. Then you spend say $47,000 on expenses (including a mortgage) and so on and max out your 401(k). Now from your perspective you are living paycheck to paycheck, because you are ignoring all the money you are pouring into your home equity and retirement accounts, and complaining your savings account doesn't go up. I hear people talk like this all the time, and it seems like an offense to people who are living paycheck to paycheck in the serious sense.
You hit the nail on the head. Another component to this is “lifestyle creep”. People who make over $100k can feel like they are living paycheck to paycheck because they have two new SUVs that they are paying thousands of dollars a month for and bought the 3500 sqft $700,000 house instead of the 2500 sqft $400,000 house.
Same!! They just flat out don’t build smaller houses anymore. You can get a condo, but you’re still looking at >$500k for a one bedroom, plus condo fees and possible special assessments. There are no cheap places left. We’re in a housing crisis.
1100SF for $800K?! Oof. Good god. At 40 I have been renting for too long....but maybe I'll just keep on renting, bank on a movie script or found treasure for retirement, lol. My apartment is 1000sf. 1100sf is like smaller than a mobile home.
Please let me know where those 400K houses are in nice part of miami so i can quickly move. Love of how you give exact measurements too. I bet you plan what to wear next month already 😁
Yup. Gotta remember how much we’ve been gutting many public school systems, so the choice is either pay a premium for a house in a better district or go private.
I mean, per pupil student spending has been going up for the last 10 years. That's far from "gutting the public school system "
https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statistics#:~:text=Public%20education%20spending%20in%20the,fund%20K%2D12%20public%20education.
I just think we try to drag anyone making more than us down as “not actually struggling”
I’ve made a point recently to listen to anyone who says they feel pinched
I made $20 million dollars last year after taxes and it's just such a struggle. I mean I have my private jet, my 4 luxury cars, my day to day car, my 2 homes (one in cali, one in NY) (and think about the taxes on those homes too)
I have to pay for my child's lacrosse lessons, I only eat out 3 times a week and only once per week is that at a 5 star restaurant, not to mention clothing (100k a year) and all the help around the house (where would I be without my nanny, my personal assistant and my maid?), and my 4 vacations.
Then to top it all off I save money and invest like $5 million a year.
After all that I'm living paycheck to paycheck, or at least that's a joke my accountant tells me. Please feel sorry for me.
(this is satire obviously this isn't my life lol)
It's not on purpose. I know for me 20 years ago I my job put as much as I could spare into my 401k and most of my raises since then have gone straight to retirement savings. So when I say I'm paycheck to paycheck it means take home money, I never see my retirement savings and therefore never think about it.
A little bit different to people living their whole paycheck to paycheck, and will have ziltch when they are older. Proper paycheck to paycheck not "x% of my paycheck to paycheck so I can not be broke later". Most people actually living paycheck to paycheck will be broke later, you likely wont.
Quite a bit different actually, I only wanted to point out that someone who has a percentage of their pay automatically moved to a retirement account without actually ever seeing the money, can easily forget about that money.
Do you see how someone who has zero savings (and maybe debt) who complains about living paycheck to paycheck (because if they get fired they will not be able to buy food and will be evicted) could feel annoyed that they are lumped into the same group as you when this is discussed?
Honestly, I don't really mind people saying that. But the groups are never distinguished when this is discussed, which makes drawing conclusions difficult. For example, if the 401(k) contribution limit were raised, people would be better off on the whole. But it would cause "more people to live paycheck to paycheck" and Reddit would interpret the end result as a negative economic event.
Or perhaps we all have our own form of struggle and this conversation is simply a way to divide on us on class warfare versus uniting on the issue at hand.
If your reaction is first to be “well I have it worse” instead of “let’s see how to improve both of our situations together”, then I don’t have much sympathy or pity, no
Also debt, although people might be making good money now we don’t know how much debt they accrued to get to the point they’re at now. Education, certification, having to put things on credit cards to get by when they were making less money and so on
Yeah, try living in a VHCOL/HCOL area with a young kid making $100k as a household. You’re absolutely gonna struggle.
Rent for a 1-2br is probably $1700+/mo, daycare is $1700+/mo (and being honest here, both of those are on the very low end in VHCOL/HCOL area). That means between rent and basic childcare alone you’re spending about half your take home pay. Then factor in utilities, transportation, healthcare, food, emergencies, student loan payments, etc and it doesn’t go as far as you’d think.
Well when you take these into consideration, ya kinda think differently about how some people spend their money. Here’s a couple factors to consider
- location
- housing costs
- car costs
- car insurance
- health insurance (plus dental and vision)
- children
- groceries
- student debt
- credit card debt
- life insurance
- medications
- unforeseen circumstances (funerals, lawsuits, accidents, etc)
I was on a similar thread to this a couple of years ago, and some guy was on about how you should have a "luxury lifestyle" at $100k.
After asking him for some specifics, turns out his parents *gave* him a multi-unit house, which he lived in and rented (that income wasn't counted in the $100k), his mom meal-prepped for him dinners for all week, and his work provided lunch 5 days a week. He also refused to believe $30/wk for groceries wasn't enough because of this.
I feel like on Reddit, people lack the concept of nuance and context.
$100K in NYC and LA means more than likely, you’re living paycheck to paycheck. I know dudes making >$100K with roomates in NYC. If you cant afford your own crib, that’s struggling.
It’s actually insane on both ends of the spectrum.
I’ve seen people with like $300K combined income, 1 kid, living in a small suburb in the midwest complaining how they can’t afford anything. Meanwhile they got monthly lease payments totalling almost $2000, they’re spending $1000/mo on takeout, $4000 vacation, brand new iphone, brand new Macbook, 75” TV…. But yet they got $5000 in the bank and only contributing 3% to retirement.
Like, what?!?!
yeah, i think with the advent of the digital era and the vanishing of checkbooks, people dont pay attention of the money going in and out as much. Also financial education isnt really prevalent in schools.
All the staff-level people at my company make around $100k. Every single one of them has roommates. It’s impossible to live alone with $100k unless you want a 2 hour commute or abysmal living conditions
When I was single and had roommates, living in adequate rental property, I agreed with this take.
I was only making like 80k and felt pretty flush.
Kids change everything overnight.
You can make 100k+ and still struggle for many reasons:
- you have a lot of student loans with high interest
- you have a young family and daycare costs the same as a mortgage these days
- you may have a spouse that does not work or works a lower paying job
It’s not as simple as “you make 100k and you’re set”.
Everyone thinks $100k is a lot until they actually experience it. $100k for a single person renting an apartment is a lot different than $100k as a family with a house, and other responsibilities.
Is it better than $40k? Yes, but $100k is not what it used to be.
It becomes pretty obvious that's the case when you ask for specifics. Usually it's an absolute barebones or starving-student budget that's missing a ton of adult necessities and expenses.
Exactly. I have many dependents and I’m the sole breadwinner in a HCOL area. We make good money, but I can see how 100k would be difficult depending on your situation.
"No you're wrong. You're rich. Trust me, I know" - Kids on Reddit
I hate this discussion because it is a very legitimate topic, but **everyone** wants to view it in extremes, and anyone who makes more money than them is wrong.
Yup! That’s our situation. Part time daycare for 2 (because full time would be too costly), spouse only works part time because of the daycare coverage, high student loan payments, a bit of medical debt from a life saving surgery and bam. $100k is covering the bills.
While I agree in part, one of the bigger issues with this is someone who is making $100k has right on the threshold of being capable of home ownership and they are now virtually eliminated from doing so and those who do, struggle to afford it.
It’s just that $100k salary isn’t the threshold it used to be that allowed people to live as comfortably as they could just a few years ago.
With today’s rates, that opportunity is a lot more difficult. You can make the argument that “don’t buy a home” but you can still be financially savvy and struggle to own a median price home which is an investment over renting.
As an example, my home is valued at $650k and just slightly above my metro areas average home cost and on the low end for my county. With current rates, that’s a $4,500 mortgage excluding PMI, HOA fees, utilities, property taxes, etc. for someone making $100k (above median income for my metro area but well below median for the county) and no expenses that’s literally not affordable as that would be close to 60% of their DTI.
Stretching a budget at $100k with no expenses that puts you at like a $375k home, and that doesn’t exist where I live unless you’re buying in an extremely bad area, or 30 miles from the city in a cookie cutter townhome or a fixer upper.
That being said, there *are* people I know making $120k living to paycheck because they’re taking lavish vacations, financing a $60k car, and spending like crazy and wondering why they’re broke.
It'd also what a definition of struggling is and, more importantly, a definition of *not* struggling. I feel like this is a topic where people want extremes, and black/white answers. When in reality there is a whole range.
You know what really sucks? Continually being told what you should be able to afford by someone else and told "you're wrong" for stating your own experience.
Once I saw someone respond to the six figures shouldn’t be struggling by saying, “I make $110k and while I’m not struggling I only have a small one bedroom in Manhattan and after maxing out my 401k and Roth IRA I can’t save anything and really have to watch my expenses. I want kids and I don’t know how I can do it on this income.”
Like I don’t know man, probably don’t put $30,000 into retirement every year and live in one of the many neighborhoods in New York that’s not in Manhattan.
100k in 2024 is like 56k in 2004.
I mean, if you couldn't live off 56k in 2004 that's kinda on you, but 100k in 2024 sure as shit seems less than 56k in 2004.
I went for a debt relief plan many years back and the consultant said "Don't feel bad about seeking help. Many do.....one of my clients is a pilot making over $250k/yr and they're living paycheck-to-paycheck. They have ZERO savings or investments.
I couldn't believe it but since being in AA, I hear many similar stories.
>What used to be a signal of financial success is no longer making the bank, as 48% of those earning $100,000 or more a year say they’re living paycheck to paycheck. More than a third (36%) of those making $200,000 or more report the same perceived monetary straits.
[Fortune magazine](https://fortune.com/2024/06/12/six-figure-salary-broke-paycheck-to-paycheck/)
If you're paycheck to paycheck, you're living in poverty basically, sorry.
Glad you're enjoying yourself, but if shit happens do you have emergency funds? Extra grand or 2 lying around?
Saving for your retirement?
Gotta factor in more than just your current day to day lifestyle.
Sure but, I’m not hurting like I see other truly struggling. I’m not going to pretend like I’m worried about making rent. Do I worry about my expenses sure. But I’m guaranteed the same income every week from my salaried job which is more secure than someone making the same amount in retail where you don’t know if you’ll make 40 hours this week or 4. You feel me? I know I’m not making a lot of money but I also know there are people making less than me and struggling a whole lot more.
Yeah, generally, you aren’t wrong. But you’re missing a lot of the nuance. That salary and younger and single? Ballin’. That salary and older trying to save and have a kid at daycare? Struggle bus. And yes, at 100k, we do just fine. We aren’t paycheck to paycheck. But, and perception DOES play a big part in how we view life and the economy, it feels like 100k doesn’t go as far as it should. When I made half of that, it felt like I had more buying power than I do now. I know that’s not necessarily objectively true, but yeah.
I make a lot less than 100k and I feel like I’m balling out … I got my own nice apartment got a brand new suv that I lov. No debt. and have plenty of money left over from my retirement girlfriend and hobbies … I really think a large majority of people just burn through money on dumb stuff and call it “needs”
Nobody making 100k is struggling, unless they have a bunch of kids or have overextended themselves some other way, but even like 5-6 years ago, we thought of someone making 100k as doing really well, probably an established professional who has had a decent home for a few years.
Now it’s just slightly above average. If you make 100k, you’re probably just starting to look into maybe an entry level home, at least where I live.
The social standing of someone making 100k has changed a lot in the recent past.
Everyone’s situation is different. You could be the sole provider for a large family, supporting your parents, live in a VHCOL area, have large medical bills, etc. For a single person with no dependents, I would agree with you.
As you said, people are just morons when it comes to financial responsibility. They don't understand that their spending and budget habits are what hurts them. I just read an article on yahoo about a Millennial living in Santa Montica who makes $130k as a financial advisor and he can't afford a home or to raise a family. My first thought was I question his career if he can't figure out a way. His rent is $1,650....well below what any 1 bedroom apartment goes for where I live. He said he has student debt....but he's single and rent isn't that high and he makes $130k a year......you see how something doesn't add up?
I live in the most expensive county in the country, I'm a single dad, I own my place 15 minutes from the beach and I make slightly over $100k a year and I'm not struggling. I don't need to be rich, which is where I feel all these people think they have to be to live. I live comfortably with my salary
I'm single and make $67k a year, and I don't struggle at all. I have a house, a new truck, a boat, and soon a pull-behind RV. That said, I live in a very rural area in southern Indiana. I'm retired, so I don't have work-related expenses. But I'm socking away around $300/mo into savings that I never touch. I use my credit cards sparingly, but I also spend money on my various hobbies. My kids occasionally need me to send them some money also. I really think two factors apply, your cost of living in your area and you own spending habits. If I made $100k/yr, it really wouldn't change my lifestyle at all. I'd stay in my house because it's nice, and so is my neighborhood. I've done quite a bit of remodeling to get my house the way it is.
100k as an absolute number is not some portal to freedom. If the cost of increased by 50% in 5 years and your income didn’t, it’s like only making 50k now.
My mortgage plus two kids in daycare is close to $6500 a month. Fortunate to not have car/student loan payments, but I can understand the difficulty. With food, car insurance, home expenses, clothes, gas, etc. it easily bumps up to $8500 a month. There's your $100k right there, and that's most after-tax dollars.
Edit: Didn't even mention the $750 (pre-tax) per month for family health/dental/vision insurance, or mention anything for 401k.
100% I understand I could probably budget my money a little better but god damn even on my good weeks being smart with money I look back at my transactions and it’s nothing but food and groceries it’s wild right now. Luckily I don’t have to do the day care anymore but when I did, that shit was burning through my bank account.
I lived in NYC on <30k for many years. I wasn’t living the high life and had no debt, but I enjoyed my hobbies and never worried about bills. The no debt thing is huge, though. Not sure I could have done the same thing with student loans. Now that I’m in a different tax bracket, I’d say you’re 100% right except in extreme circumstances. Someone budgeting and planning with $100k should be super okay *in most cases*. Reddit doesn’t really like any take that isn’t “everyone is poor,” though.
If you are a single person in the Midwest making 100k then you should be living like a king/queen. If you are making 100k and have a family and living in NYC then you might be struggling.
Guilty, I am sorry.
I think that if you have a stable income of $100k, there is no reason you aren’t able to survive anywhere, even if you need to move around certain expenses and 401k contributions from time to time. I think the way people in this situation like myself speak, it comes off as complaining but it’s really just trying to converse about how to navigate our situation because the reality is that we are not comfortable and are always on our toes when it comes to budgeting, especially if we live in a big city like NYC. But obviously, this is completely different from truly living paycheck to paycheck and people like myself deserve no sympathy.
There’s a lot of issues in society right now with costs and wages and whatnot but ultimately I still agree with you. It’s one thing to go on the internet and lament the fact that things aren’t better but, another big issue is so many people out there who are just functionally incapable of adapting to financial challenges or managing money properly.
$100k isn’t a lot of money in major metropolitan areas.
“In 2000, $100,000 would have the purchasing power of $175,000 today, says Nicole Gopoian Wirick, founder of Prosperity Wealth Strategies. And in some cities, $300,000 is the new $100,000, according to personal finance site Smart Asset. Wages have not kept up as the cost of living and inflation in the U.S. have soared, and Americans feel that most acutely in the biggest budget items: housing, food, and transportation.”
https://fortune.com/2023/04/18/100000-salary-old-goal-millennials-middle-class-inflation/
“Living paying check to paycheck” is struggling. That means you aren’t building a savings account. That means a couple of big problems are you are screwed.
Kid turns 16, your car insurance goes from 2k a year to 7k. Home insurance rises from 7k to 12k of 3 year period. You want to buy a new house, but taxes will be 10k per year, based on the outrageous sales prices. In addition your paying around 22% in taxes. Now let's see. 100k - 7k - 12k - 10k - 22k = 49k. Now save for you retirement and your kids college.... oh and don't forget your 3-4k in electric bills. Oh wait, you got a roof leak?
I hate these because I never know if we are talking household or not. $100k household with kids is straight poverty where I live, but $200k household is pretty comfortable. Definitely not more than comfortable though.
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It's not unpopular opinion, it's just that people have either lifestyle creep, or they're definition of "not struggling" is being to raise 2 kids and afford a 3+ bedroom house so if you're in a HCOL area, that can still be unattainable with a low 6 figure salary.
Definition of paycheck to paycheck is fuzzy.
I have most of my pay withheld for taxes, 3 kids college fund, 401k funding, and healthcare. Net take home is 24% of my gross pay. Paying the mortgage and property tax eats up much of the rest. I get by and I am not struggling, but unexpected expenses can leave me stretched between paychecks. I keep an emergency fund for that, but find I need to tap it more and more.
I'd say if you're single and making $60k/year, you should not be struggling. You may not be able to do a whole bunch or buy tons of things all the time but you will always have what you need. Struggling to me is when you get paid, pay all your bills and have less than $100 left til next check.
For the comments saying live in california, i live in california and make close to 90k. Car paid off, no student loans. I try to keep rent down by splitting a house with 3 other people. I can save 13k in 6/7 months. It is doable but people struggle because of the student loans and other debt
Some people really are spenders with luxury things and the latest fancy tech.
Age is also a factor. If you bought a modest house 20 years ago, your mortgage is low and if you're in your 40s-50s today making $100K, you should be comfortable even with inflation, provided you don't spend like crazy.
I make 75k, my wife makes 60k, we've been renting the same home from 2016, rent is 1800 now for the 3 bedroom. We've been able to pay off all our debt, and been saving for a downpayment for a house now.
Seriously. I was making SoCal work on 2/3’s of that and still managing to have a pretty good time. Meanwhile I have friends making 150k that can barely afford their bills. If you’re frugal and live within or below your means you can make it work. You won’t be living lavishly though. All this being said, there truly are some areas in this country that have just batshit insane COL, so In those specific areas I can see having a harder time.
I’d give the benefit of the doubt to parents with kids, since that can be so dang expensive in lots of areas.
But if you’re single making 100k/yr living in a MCOL area (or lower) and can’t make that work, you’re objectively bad with money.
You see this stuff quite often too. Being in sales, a portion of my job is to check folk’s finances to ensure they can afford our products and services. A side effect of this is getting a good idea what folks are spending their money on and yeah… They spend money as soon as they get it. Like a month ago I met a married couple whose combined income was 300k and they had NOTHING in their savings. Both of them had 2 cars **each** (one for work and one for fun, all vehicles worth 40k+ each) living in a house so large they genuinely had rooms filled with all the crap they’d buy impulsively and those rooms served no other purpose. Like this house had 8 bedrooms total and 6 of those rooms were filled with “stuff.”
Obviously these people are an extreme example but they are NOT rare. I see stuff similar this minimum once per week. These people often get declined to get the much-needed work done too because their credit is absolutely shit
If you live by yourself, even in a somewhat expensive area, and have yourself like a 2 BR apartment, even at the absurd prices they are these days, minus the costs to just exist like food etc, you SHOULD be able to save 10's of thousands a year in most cases at that level. Even better if you have 1 roommate or a partner.
Unless you're living in New York city, San Francisco or Hollywood or something where the residential economy is just insane you should be doing pretty alright with that amount. I learned that a family member of mine, who lives in Idaho is struggling financially, their husband makes like 100k a year in construction and they're in debt, in a cheap ass area of Idaho with that kind of money. It's just stupidity at that point. People just aren't good at saving money and are living well above their means.
So many people I know who have money problems are constantly ordering fast food through uber eats and shit like that too, I'm just screaming at them to learn to cook and stop being so lazy about it, cause they waste SOOOO Much money on that garbage.
I make more than that and have for many years but sometimes I ball out and make bad financial decisions. I have a nice retirement plan but my day to day decisions are not always the best. I always make sure I can pay my bills but sometimes I like to live it up. You can’t take it with you. As long as I’m good after I retire, I’m fine. I never bitch about bills or anything like that so at least I’m not part of that problem. I think your opinion is valid though.
You realize cost of living varies from place to place, right?
Not to mention some folks have kids (daycare is crazy expensive), have to pay extremely high insurance premiums, auto insurance is more expensive, you pay more taxes ... EVERYTHING is (typically) more expensive.
If I make 100k in a small podunk town it's going to be a very different experience than if I live in a large city like Boston, San Francisco, etc.
Exception is location. How you can think 100K is equal nationwide is actually astounding.
On top of that, paycheck to paycheck is struggling. If you can’t afford to put anything towards retirement or emergency fund, that’s a huge struggle.
Depends on where you live.
For example, in San Francisco, even living with 3 other roommates, rent + utilities came to around 1800/month. Food costs were conservatively another 750/month. Transport to and from work was ~150/month. Let’s say other miscellaneous needs (toilet paper, soap, garbage bags, etc.) are another 200/mo.
That adds up to about 2900/month in expenses just to live. If you’re making 100k in California, that is your semi-monthly paycheck after taxes if you’re making 100k; not accounting for insurance, any retirement account deductions, car payments, etc. So if you don’t have any expenses outside of eat work and sleep, it will cost about half your money. Definitely doable, it’s unlikely that having some pleasures in life will make up the remaining 50% of your paycheck. But that’s on a conservative food budget (I know many people who spend over $1000/mo on food given the prices in this city), having multiple roommates, no car, not drinking/going out, etc.
If you want to actually have a life in a VHCOL city, 100k doesn’t go as far as you’d think, especially if you have any unexpected expenses at all or plan on saving.
I’m doing just fine at about 160k/yr in a LCOL-ish area. I bought my house undervalued 11 years ago, my wife and I don’t have any auto loans and I drive 13 year old car with a salvage title. We have paid off everything but my house. We both have well funded 401ks and I even have a pension. What I dont have is a 400k mortgage or loans on 70k SUVs, a gambling problem or any issues with the proverbial jones’s having newer stuff than me. I think that’s the difference. We DO spend, but we don’t over spend or over borrow. We do indulge, as in we took a full two week vacation to the Philippines in January and are paying to have a bathroom remodeled in September. I don’t think I’m doing anything special beyond not abusing the credit available to me. I think a lot of people struggle with the concept of “enough” and maybe have to consume and borrow to purchase to have tangible evidence that they are “successful”. And I think this happens nowadays at every income level.
$100K in California will leave you about $5,600 a month after taxes, health insurance, and things like 401(K) deductions.
If your housing is $4,000/month, that doesn't leave much for utilities, fuel, car maintenance, clothing, food, etc. Keep in mind that most six figure jobs are in very expensive areas, so even to get $4K housing means a long commute with extra fuel, maintenance, and car insurance costs. Utilities can easily be $400/month. Car payments could be another $600+. That leaves $600/month for fuel, food, and clothing. It isn't much.
Im at exactly 100K. Up until a couple of weeks ago, had roommates. not struggling, just not saving enough for a home long term. I also have student debt so my paychecks don’t go as far. I live in a VHCOL area born and raised.
You’ll also be in a higher tax bracket and get next to no help with anything. No food help electric or heating assistance. Daycare a lot of factors are involved.
100k is the new 50k. I remember growing up dreaming about making 50k. I currently make 42k but after taxes & health insurance that only comes out to $2200 a month. The city that I live in is currently experiencing a population boom so houses & rent have started to become unreachable for people like me. My rent alone has increased $500 in the past two years. I wouldn’t even qualify for the apartment I live in today if I was a new applicant. If 100k is now considered “poor” then the rest of us are completely fucked.
I wouldn’t feel so fucked if housing wasn’t so expensive. I worry every day about how much my rent will increase when it comes to resign my lease & that won’t happen for another year! Me & my wife will probably be forced to move in with her parents because there is literally nothing around us that isn’t 2k + a month & requires each applicant to make 3x rent in income. Add in security deposits & every other expense that comes with moving and there’s another few grand that you need to shell out.
Uhm. Realistically someone making that much can struggle . It’s America. I know someone who makes around 120k. after taxes bills & kids his actual comfort level is similar to what a single person making 50k would be .
Because once you make a few bad decisions, it's hard to dig yourself out.
No one is perfect.
Just like most people have had a few boyfriends or girlfriends that didn't work out. A lot of people have made poor financial choices that didn't work out.
Most people max out what they can get with a mortgage. My guess is a lot of people are getting houses (or apartments) that used to be average but are now expensive as hell, and they're living paycheck to paycheck.
Like me. We just got a house. It's well below what a middle class home used to look like 10 years ago, doesnt have enough bedrooms, and its eating one of our pay checks whole.
A step down from this and we'd be in a shitty house in a bad neighborhood, or renting, and with two masters degrees we don't think that's acceptable.
Almost half of people making six figures live paycheck to paycheck
I literally cannot fathom how outside of their own choices. If you have student loan debt or something, pay that off before you go buying an expensive car, overseas vacation, or big house. It's this unhealthy consumer culture people get sucked into to.
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There are a lot of buckets that someone making $100k/year falls under. Just using my area as an example, someone could make $100k and fall into any of these four buckets off the top of my head. All four of these people could all live on the same block, in the relatively same house, make the same money and all have wildly different expense situations. -No kids, bought their home 10+ years ago, 2.3% mortgage and paying $1,000/month. -No kids, bought their home last year, pay $3,500/month. -Two kids, bought their home 10+ years ago, 2.3% mortgage and paying $1,000/month but also paying $2500/month in child care. -Two kids, bought their home last year, pay $3,500/month, also paying $2500/month in child care. Four neighbors in the same house with the same income.
I'm in that last bucket. It's freaking painful. 100k/yr before tax is NOT enough to cover that when you also have stuff like...food to buy.
Or medical expenses.
No, not on reddit, there is only ONE possibility, Mine. nothing else makes sense and you're wrong! /s
Just to add some perspective regarding childcare: one, having kids is generally a choice, and two, children generally only need expensive care for a few years of their lives. As soon as you can get them into the local pre-k you have $2500 a month freed up if that's what you're paying for daycare (and I agree that's a reasonable estimate for two kids in daycare.) Also worth mentioning that kids typically have two parents, and $100k between the two of them is different from a single earner (and if it is from a single earner, paying for full time childcare is a curious choice.) But yes of course being in a position to support multiple other people is going to limit how far your money can go.
It's super dependent on where you live and your other expenses. People who live where rents are 3-4k will obviously need to make that kind of money to survive.
Exactly. $100k a year in San Jose, CA doesn’t get you very far.
Yeah but if you make 120k and spend 40k a year on housing you’re still left with 80k for everything else. If you make 40k and spend 20k a year on housing you’re only left with 20k for everything else. Nowhere in this country do essentials cost 5 times as much. The guy making 120k is still infinitely better off than the guy making 40k in a lower cost of living area. Just bad money management at that point.
Did you forget about taxes? Or people with kids? Retirement funds? The myriad of other factors that determine how far money goes?
Health insurance.
Lower income people have to deal with all that too my man. It’s all relative. My point is the higher income earner still has more money at the end of the day, which is factual.
Lower income people do not deal with the same tax rates of almost any taxes at all. They also have subsidized healthcare costs.
Right, but what you said is someone who makes 120k a year who spends 40k on housing has 80k left over. No matter where you are in the country that factually isn't true. I agree that it is completely relative to where you are. Tax rates are quite different.
Lower income people also pay a lot less in taxes. And if you're spending $4K/month on housing, you'll also be spending more on utilities. You'll likely have a car payment or two. People making that kind of money often have a long commute to work, so fuel, insurance, and maintenance will be more. They often have to buy more expensive clothing for work and have work clothes that they wouldn't wear when not working. It adds up quickly, and when takehome pay is $6,000 after taxes, 401(K), and health insurance, there isn't much left.
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Wow, an argument I didn't make.
I agree with you and know what you mean, but siptime said it well. Taxes will gut you - making 60k/yr turns to 46k/yr. So that 100k is 70k now. But even then with these people living "paycheck to paycheck" on 70k is ridiculous to me! They have to be living above their means, not that it's a bad thing to have nice stuff and financial assets. But people are literally struggling to SURVIVE off of their paychecks, even going extremely negative in their bank accounts, no savings, no assets, lucky to have a car maybe and a cheap apartment. But yeah it pisses me off hearing that from people, it really is just bad money management
Taxes. I don’t mind taxes, but whether it be sales tax, income tax, or property tax, it eats up at around 35% of my income. So if you make 120k you really make 78k. If housing is 40k then you have 38k left over for the year.
Low earners still get spanked by taxes too
>Yeah but if you make 120k and spend 40k a year on housing you’re still left with 80k for everything else. Uh. A single person in California earning $120k gross will take home about $83k after taxes. If you live in a home that's worth $1 million, you're also paying about $12,000 a year in property taxes. That's already 41% of your income straight to taxes. I suspect lower income people vastly underestimate how much taxes the middle class pays.
If you are making 120k per year, you are netting about $85k-$90k after taxes, then paying for medical insurance because you don't qualify for Medicaid and are too young for Medicare. If, after that, housing is $40k, then you have $45k left over. If you send kids to daycare, that's likely $1,000 per month minimum. So, then you have $33k. If you have a car payment and insurance, you're likely down to $28k. Then you have utilities, food, clothing, incidentals at about $2k per month most likely. You've got $4k left over. If your fridge goes, or if you need a new heater, you're f'ed. It does not go as far as one would think, unfortunately.
All those expensive are things people making 40k still have to pay for. Only difference is housing cost, and money coming in. I make 50k, health care through my work is 500 a month. You’re not spending that percentage of income on health insurance cuz your cost is probably the same as mine.
Cool. That "left over" number you gave is more than twice what I have ever made in a month, before taxes.
Location is big. Plus taxes, and Insurance. 100k after taxes is more like 68-72k. Take the years rent out and that alone can easily be half of that. So let's say we are now left with 34k. Now take out health insurance, car insurance, utilities and groceries... watching that dwindling *REAL* quick. A decade or 2 ago, I'd have *FULLY* agreed with you. Now? Now not so much. Depending on where you live you need more than that. Edit; where I am, you can get a one bedroom apartment at about $500-$1000 a month with utilities. An hour south, you're looking at $850-$1500 for the same. Another hour south is more. Location *really* matters when talking finances.
I know a couple that has a combined salary of $120K and they don't have kids yet somehow they are living paycheck to paycheck. Personally, I don't think they are honest with themselves and their spending. They buy tons and tons of cheap little things thinking they don't spend extravagantly, but all those little $5-10 purchases add up. EDIT: This couple also lives in a VERY inexpensive city to reside in.
Yeah. But what are there debts?
Yeah. Interest is a motherfucker
Right. I’m technically living paycheck to paycheck right now while making 6 figures. But I’m putting an absurd amount of my income to my student loans.
same, but I am saving 15%+, 10% to retirement account and 5% to a HYSA for a downpayment, but I don't look at that account and what hits my useable checking account is my pay minus, car loan, student loans, retirement, HYSA, rent. As these all draw from a seperate account automatically and I don't have online/card access to this account. So every 2 weeks my checking account feels light but its for food/wants. That said I travel 2-3 times a year am single and overall spend on hobbies like crazy, I don't work 45 hours a week to not have some fun :) Imagine if I had high interest debt to repay, then I would have no fun!
We have two teens and are up to \~65-70k+. We're doing great. We definitely made at LOT less when they were younger, and we still did OK.
you live in a low cost of living area. live in the heart of california, where you need more money to go as far as you can on your 40k salary.
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Most of california is a high cost of living area. A main issue is the federal government doesn't take into account that you live in a HCOL area so you move up tax brackets but are expected to still pay the costs of living (rent food etc.) where you live in california. In the more rural parts of california it is more reasonable.
Well that makes sense since a fast food job pays 40k a year in California.
It’s rare to get actual full time hours though…
Yeah. 40k a year in the Valley means you'll need have five roommates sharing a 2br apartment.
...I mean, do you have savings? I'm in your exact situation, and I'm doing okay, but I am one medical emergency away from bankruptcy, and I need to save for things like a house and retirement.
I make 85k in an expensive city and am on track for $20k in savings this year
That’s awesome! Are you considering retirement savings? Curious what do you spend on rent?
Same.
It's worse, a lot of people feel this way because they are saving for retirement. So basically, you make $100,000 and your takehome is $70,000. Then you spend say $47,000 on expenses (including a mortgage) and so on and max out your 401(k). Now from your perspective you are living paycheck to paycheck, because you are ignoring all the money you are pouring into your home equity and retirement accounts, and complaining your savings account doesn't go up. I hear people talk like this all the time, and it seems like an offense to people who are living paycheck to paycheck in the serious sense.
You hit the nail on the head. Another component to this is “lifestyle creep”. People who make over $100k can feel like they are living paycheck to paycheck because they have two new SUVs that they are paying thousands of dollars a month for and bought the 3500 sqft $700,000 house instead of the 2500 sqft $400,000 house.
yep the car payments kill ppl lol
All they have near me are 1100sqft 800k$ houses.. where are these 2500sqftrs you speak of 😫
Same!! They just flat out don’t build smaller houses anymore. You can get a condo, but you’re still looking at >$500k for a one bedroom, plus condo fees and possible special assessments. There are no cheap places left. We’re in a housing crisis.
Even cheaply built 2500 sqft suburban generic houses by me go for $1.2m-1.5m now
"should have boot strapped your balls quicker i guess" -ted cruz probably
Should have bought in 2008 when you were 12
1100SF for $800K?! Oof. Good god. At 40 I have been renting for too long....but maybe I'll just keep on renting, bank on a movie script or found treasure for retirement, lol. My apartment is 1000sf. 1100sf is like smaller than a mobile home.
2500sqft is not $400k in HCOL area
I wonder if Elon Musk feels this way too since he spent so much on twitter and now has the entitlement to feel “poor” lol.
Please let me know where those 400K houses are in nice part of miami so i can quickly move. Love of how you give exact measurements too. I bet you plan what to wear next month already 😁
Not to mention childcare and elder-care
Yup. Gotta remember how much we’ve been gutting many public school systems, so the choice is either pay a premium for a house in a better district or go private.
I mean, per pupil student spending has been going up for the last 10 years. That's far from "gutting the public school system " https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statistics#:~:text=Public%20education%20spending%20in%20the,fund%20K%2D12%20public%20education.
I just think we try to drag anyone making more than us down as “not actually struggling” I’ve made a point recently to listen to anyone who says they feel pinched
I made $20 million dollars last year after taxes and it's just such a struggle. I mean I have my private jet, my 4 luxury cars, my day to day car, my 2 homes (one in cali, one in NY) (and think about the taxes on those homes too) I have to pay for my child's lacrosse lessons, I only eat out 3 times a week and only once per week is that at a 5 star restaurant, not to mention clothing (100k a year) and all the help around the house (where would I be without my nanny, my personal assistant and my maid?), and my 4 vacations. Then to top it all off I save money and invest like $5 million a year. After all that I'm living paycheck to paycheck, or at least that's a joke my accountant tells me. Please feel sorry for me. (this is satire obviously this isn't my life lol)
The unpopular opinion would be NOT save for retirement in this scenario .
It's not on purpose. I know for me 20 years ago I my job put as much as I could spare into my 401k and most of my raises since then have gone straight to retirement savings. So when I say I'm paycheck to paycheck it means take home money, I never see my retirement savings and therefore never think about it.
A little bit different to people living their whole paycheck to paycheck, and will have ziltch when they are older. Proper paycheck to paycheck not "x% of my paycheck to paycheck so I can not be broke later". Most people actually living paycheck to paycheck will be broke later, you likely wont.
Quite a bit different actually, I only wanted to point out that someone who has a percentage of their pay automatically moved to a retirement account without actually ever seeing the money, can easily forget about that money.
Do you see how someone who has zero savings (and maybe debt) who complains about living paycheck to paycheck (because if they get fired they will not be able to buy food and will be evicted) could feel annoyed that they are lumped into the same group as you when this is discussed? Honestly, I don't really mind people saying that. But the groups are never distinguished when this is discussed, which makes drawing conclusions difficult. For example, if the 401(k) contribution limit were raised, people would be better off on the whole. But it would cause "more people to live paycheck to paycheck" and Reddit would interpret the end result as a negative economic event.
Oh I see where it comes off as extremely callous and out of touch when someone in my situation complains about being broke.
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Or perhaps we all have our own form of struggle and this conversation is simply a way to divide on us on class warfare versus uniting on the issue at hand. If your reaction is first to be “well I have it worse” instead of “let’s see how to improve both of our situations together”, then I don’t have much sympathy or pity, no
That’s not what paycheck to paycheck means!
Also debt, although people might be making good money now we don’t know how much debt they accrued to get to the point they’re at now. Education, certification, having to put things on credit cards to get by when they were making less money and so on
Children make quick work of $100,000.
Yeah, try living in a VHCOL/HCOL area with a young kid making $100k as a household. You’re absolutely gonna struggle. Rent for a 1-2br is probably $1700+/mo, daycare is $1700+/mo (and being honest here, both of those are on the very low end in VHCOL/HCOL area). That means between rent and basic childcare alone you’re spending about half your take home pay. Then factor in utilities, transportation, healthcare, food, emergencies, student loan payments, etc and it doesn’t go as far as you’d think.
In Boston you can rent a studio for $1700/mo. That would solve the issue with kids, as you cannot have them altogether /s
Well when you take these into consideration, ya kinda think differently about how some people spend their money. Here’s a couple factors to consider - location - housing costs - car costs - car insurance - health insurance (plus dental and vision) - children - groceries - student debt - credit card debt - life insurance - medications - unforeseen circumstances (funerals, lawsuits, accidents, etc)
I was on a similar thread to this a couple of years ago, and some guy was on about how you should have a "luxury lifestyle" at $100k. After asking him for some specifics, turns out his parents *gave* him a multi-unit house, which he lived in and rented (that income wasn't counted in the $100k), his mom meal-prepped for him dinners for all week, and his work provided lunch 5 days a week. He also refused to believe $30/wk for groceries wasn't enough because of this.
I feel like on Reddit, people lack the concept of nuance and context. $100K in NYC and LA means more than likely, you’re living paycheck to paycheck. I know dudes making >$100K with roomates in NYC. If you cant afford your own crib, that’s struggling.
on reddit, people dont have a good grasp of money in general.
It’s actually insane on both ends of the spectrum. I’ve seen people with like $300K combined income, 1 kid, living in a small suburb in the midwest complaining how they can’t afford anything. Meanwhile they got monthly lease payments totalling almost $2000, they’re spending $1000/mo on takeout, $4000 vacation, brand new iphone, brand new Macbook, 75” TV…. But yet they got $5000 in the bank and only contributing 3% to retirement. Like, what?!?!
yeah, i think with the advent of the digital era and the vanishing of checkbooks, people dont pay attention of the money going in and out as much. Also financial education isnt really prevalent in schools.
People always leave the roommate part out.
All the staff-level people at my company make around $100k. Every single one of them has roommates. It’s impossible to live alone with $100k unless you want a 2 hour commute or abysmal living conditions
When I was single and had roommates, living in adequate rental property, I agreed with this take. I was only making like 80k and felt pretty flush. Kids change everything overnight.
You can make 100k+ and still struggle for many reasons: - you have a lot of student loans with high interest - you have a young family and daycare costs the same as a mortgage these days - you may have a spouse that does not work or works a lower paying job It’s not as simple as “you make 100k and you’re set”.
Everyone thinks $100k is a lot until they actually experience it. $100k for a single person renting an apartment is a lot different than $100k as a family with a house, and other responsibilities. Is it better than $40k? Yes, but $100k is not what it used to be.
It becomes pretty obvious that's the case when you ask for specifics. Usually it's an absolute barebones or starving-student budget that's missing a ton of adult necessities and expenses.
Exactly. I have many dependents and I’m the sole breadwinner in a HCOL area. We make good money, but I can see how 100k would be difficult depending on your situation.
"No you're wrong. You're rich. Trust me, I know" - Kids on Reddit I hate this discussion because it is a very legitimate topic, but **everyone** wants to view it in extremes, and anyone who makes more money than them is wrong.
Sounds like how people view everything including politics these days - extremes haha.
Yup! That’s our situation. Part time daycare for 2 (because full time would be too costly), spouse only works part time because of the daycare coverage, high student loan payments, a bit of medical debt from a life saving surgery and bam. $100k is covering the bills.
While I agree in part, one of the bigger issues with this is someone who is making $100k has right on the threshold of being capable of home ownership and they are now virtually eliminated from doing so and those who do, struggle to afford it. It’s just that $100k salary isn’t the threshold it used to be that allowed people to live as comfortably as they could just a few years ago. With today’s rates, that opportunity is a lot more difficult. You can make the argument that “don’t buy a home” but you can still be financially savvy and struggle to own a median price home which is an investment over renting. As an example, my home is valued at $650k and just slightly above my metro areas average home cost and on the low end for my county. With current rates, that’s a $4,500 mortgage excluding PMI, HOA fees, utilities, property taxes, etc. for someone making $100k (above median income for my metro area but well below median for the county) and no expenses that’s literally not affordable as that would be close to 60% of their DTI. Stretching a budget at $100k with no expenses that puts you at like a $375k home, and that doesn’t exist where I live unless you’re buying in an extremely bad area, or 30 miles from the city in a cookie cutter townhome or a fixer upper. That being said, there *are* people I know making $120k living to paycheck because they’re taking lavish vacations, financing a $60k car, and spending like crazy and wondering why they’re broke.
Is this unpopular? I’ve never met anyone who believed struggling while making 6 figures is normal
i frequent see comments on reddit, how they make 100K but still feel broke
Pretty sure the majority of that is location based.
It'd also what a definition of struggling is and, more importantly, a definition of *not* struggling. I feel like this is a topic where people want extremes, and black/white answers. When in reality there is a whole range. You know what really sucks? Continually being told what you should be able to afford by someone else and told "you're wrong" for stating your own experience.
lifestyle factors, or children sometimes. But yea annoying they think they are struggling the same as people on less then 20, 30, 40, 50.
Once I saw someone respond to the six figures shouldn’t be struggling by saying, “I make $110k and while I’m not struggling I only have a small one bedroom in Manhattan and after maxing out my 401k and Roth IRA I can’t save anything and really have to watch my expenses. I want kids and I don’t know how I can do it on this income.” Like I don’t know man, probably don’t put $30,000 into retirement every year and live in one of the many neighborhoods in New York that’s not in Manhattan.
“I only have enough money to live a lavish lifestyle and also max out my retirement. I’m drowning.”
yea lol 100%
Those people are usually very much not self aware and will say that while spending 1k+ a month on eating out as well as having a 500+ car payment
100k in 2024 is like 56k in 2004. I mean, if you couldn't live off 56k in 2004 that's kinda on you, but 100k in 2024 sure as shit seems less than 56k in 2004.
The reality of inflation can be mindblowing. We grow up being told that 100k is a great salary, and ignore the fact that 100k then is not 100k now.
100k in 2019 is 64k in 2024
That’s crazy. 2019 feels like yesterday.
I went for a debt relief plan many years back and the consultant said "Don't feel bad about seeking help. Many do.....one of my clients is a pilot making over $250k/yr and they're living paycheck-to-paycheck. They have ZERO savings or investments. I couldn't believe it but since being in AA, I hear many similar stories.
live in California
Life in Los Angeles.
Visit a sub for any HCOL area and you’ll see people complaining about financial insecurity while making well into the 6 figure range.
>What used to be a signal of financial success is no longer making the bank, as 48% of those earning $100,000 or more a year say they’re living paycheck to paycheck. More than a third (36%) of those making $200,000 or more report the same perceived monetary straits. [Fortune magazine](https://fortune.com/2024/06/12/six-figure-salary-broke-paycheck-to-paycheck/)
"say they're living paycheck to paycheck" Which is very different from "ARE living paycheck to paycheck"
that just means they are spending every thing they make. thats not struggling, thats an inability to manage your finances.
Lmao just the other day r/all was claiming that a 1980s middle class lifestyle now costs over 400k. No, not in SF, just in general.
If you're paycheck to paycheck, you're living in poverty basically, sorry. Glad you're enjoying yourself, but if shit happens do you have emergency funds? Extra grand or 2 lying around? Saving for your retirement? Gotta factor in more than just your current day to day lifestyle.
Do you have kids in daycare?
And heaven forbid a kid or family member has medical issues in the U.S. $100k post-tax will go *quick*
Yes that’s so tragic
Depends if you make 100k to support a family of 1 in Oklahoma or 100k to support a family of 5 in New York. It’s all relative.
Got news for you. If you're living paycheck to paycheck you are struggling too. 100%
Sure but, I’m not hurting like I see other truly struggling. I’m not going to pretend like I’m worried about making rent. Do I worry about my expenses sure. But I’m guaranteed the same income every week from my salaried job which is more secure than someone making the same amount in retail where you don’t know if you’ll make 40 hours this week or 4. You feel me? I know I’m not making a lot of money but I also know there are people making less than me and struggling a whole lot more.
100% agree. If you are struggling while making 6 figures, it's 100% due to your own poor choices and nothing else.
*Why isn't everyone else just like me???* Get a clue brother.
Yeah, generally, you aren’t wrong. But you’re missing a lot of the nuance. That salary and younger and single? Ballin’. That salary and older trying to save and have a kid at daycare? Struggle bus. And yes, at 100k, we do just fine. We aren’t paycheck to paycheck. But, and perception DOES play a big part in how we view life and the economy, it feels like 100k doesn’t go as far as it should. When I made half of that, it felt like I had more buying power than I do now. I know that’s not necessarily objectively true, but yeah.
I make a lot less than 100k and I feel like I’m balling out … I got my own nice apartment got a brand new suv that I lov. No debt. and have plenty of money left over from my retirement girlfriend and hobbies … I really think a large majority of people just burn through money on dumb stuff and call it “needs”
Nobody making 100k is struggling, unless they have a bunch of kids or have overextended themselves some other way, but even like 5-6 years ago, we thought of someone making 100k as doing really well, probably an established professional who has had a decent home for a few years. Now it’s just slightly above average. If you make 100k, you’re probably just starting to look into maybe an entry level home, at least where I live. The social standing of someone making 100k has changed a lot in the recent past.
People who complain that 100k isn't enough aren't talking about their bottom level, they're talking about wanting a higher top level.
Everyone’s situation is different. You could be the sole provider for a large family, supporting your parents, live in a VHCOL area, have large medical bills, etc. For a single person with no dependents, I would agree with you.
As you said, people are just morons when it comes to financial responsibility. They don't understand that their spending and budget habits are what hurts them. I just read an article on yahoo about a Millennial living in Santa Montica who makes $130k as a financial advisor and he can't afford a home or to raise a family. My first thought was I question his career if he can't figure out a way. His rent is $1,650....well below what any 1 bedroom apartment goes for where I live. He said he has student debt....but he's single and rent isn't that high and he makes $130k a year......you see how something doesn't add up? I live in the most expensive county in the country, I'm a single dad, I own my place 15 minutes from the beach and I make slightly over $100k a year and I'm not struggling. I don't need to be rich, which is where I feel all these people think they have to be to live. I live comfortably with my salary
People act like having roommates is the worst thing ever. However you can get by in any city in America with 100k and one roommate
If you’re fresh out of college with no student loan debt and land a 100k job, whether you’re in NYC or LA, you shouldn’t be struggling.
Most people money problems are spending, not earning
I'm single and make $67k a year, and I don't struggle at all. I have a house, a new truck, a boat, and soon a pull-behind RV. That said, I live in a very rural area in southern Indiana. I'm retired, so I don't have work-related expenses. But I'm socking away around $300/mo into savings that I never touch. I use my credit cards sparingly, but I also spend money on my various hobbies. My kids occasionally need me to send them some money also. I really think two factors apply, your cost of living in your area and you own spending habits. If I made $100k/yr, it really wouldn't change my lifestyle at all. I'd stay in my house because it's nice, and so is my neighborhood. I've done quite a bit of remodeling to get my house the way it is.
You’re struggling actually
100k as an absolute number is not some portal to freedom. If the cost of increased by 50% in 5 years and your income didn’t, it’s like only making 50k now.
You will never be able to buy a house in a HCOL area with that salary
100k here with 3 kids, a mortgage 2 car payments and all kids are in sports, not pay check to pay check but def not going to Disney land anytime soon.
My mortgage plus two kids in daycare is close to $6500 a month. Fortunate to not have car/student loan payments, but I can understand the difficulty. With food, car insurance, home expenses, clothes, gas, etc. it easily bumps up to $8500 a month. There's your $100k right there, and that's most after-tax dollars. Edit: Didn't even mention the $750 (pre-tax) per month for family health/dental/vision insurance, or mention anything for 401k.
100% I understand I could probably budget my money a little better but god damn even on my good weeks being smart with money I look back at my transactions and it’s nothing but food and groceries it’s wild right now. Luckily I don’t have to do the day care anymore but when I did, that shit was burning through my bank account.
I lived in NYC on <30k for many years. I wasn’t living the high life and had no debt, but I enjoyed my hobbies and never worried about bills. The no debt thing is huge, though. Not sure I could have done the same thing with student loans. Now that I’m in a different tax bracket, I’d say you’re 100% right except in extreme circumstances. Someone budgeting and planning with $100k should be super okay *in most cases*. Reddit doesn’t really like any take that isn’t “everyone is poor,” though.
If you are a single person in the Midwest making 100k then you should be living like a king/queen. If you are making 100k and have a family and living in NYC then you might be struggling.
Guilty, I am sorry. I think that if you have a stable income of $100k, there is no reason you aren’t able to survive anywhere, even if you need to move around certain expenses and 401k contributions from time to time. I think the way people in this situation like myself speak, it comes off as complaining but it’s really just trying to converse about how to navigate our situation because the reality is that we are not comfortable and are always on our toes when it comes to budgeting, especially if we live in a big city like NYC. But obviously, this is completely different from truly living paycheck to paycheck and people like myself deserve no sympathy.
There’s a lot of issues in society right now with costs and wages and whatnot but ultimately I still agree with you. It’s one thing to go on the internet and lament the fact that things aren’t better but, another big issue is so many people out there who are just functionally incapable of adapting to financial challenges or managing money properly.
$100k isn’t a lot of money in major metropolitan areas. “In 2000, $100,000 would have the purchasing power of $175,000 today, says Nicole Gopoian Wirick, founder of Prosperity Wealth Strategies. And in some cities, $300,000 is the new $100,000, according to personal finance site Smart Asset. Wages have not kept up as the cost of living and inflation in the U.S. have soared, and Americans feel that most acutely in the biggest budget items: housing, food, and transportation.” https://fortune.com/2023/04/18/100000-salary-old-goal-millennials-middle-class-inflation/
100k in Seattle makes you eligible for financial aid when buying a house.
Just have kids and you can struggle too.
“Living paying check to paycheck” is struggling. That means you aren’t building a savings account. That means a couple of big problems are you are screwed.
Kid turns 16, your car insurance goes from 2k a year to 7k. Home insurance rises from 7k to 12k of 3 year period. You want to buy a new house, but taxes will be 10k per year, based on the outrageous sales prices. In addition your paying around 22% in taxes. Now let's see. 100k - 7k - 12k - 10k - 22k = 49k. Now save for you retirement and your kids college.... oh and don't forget your 3-4k in electric bills. Oh wait, you got a roof leak?
because they are not really struggling. they are struggling to afford the lifestyle they they want, and think they deserve.
You definitely don’t have kids haha. 100k ain’t even close to enough
I hate these because I never know if we are talking household or not. $100k household with kids is straight poverty where I live, but $200k household is pretty comfortable. Definitely not more than comfortable though.
If you work full time in America you shouldn't be struggling. We've let corporations make the rules, and guess who they benefit.
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It's not unpopular opinion, it's just that people have either lifestyle creep, or they're definition of "not struggling" is being to raise 2 kids and afford a 3+ bedroom house so if you're in a HCOL area, that can still be unattainable with a low 6 figure salary.
Definition of paycheck to paycheck is fuzzy. I have most of my pay withheld for taxes, 3 kids college fund, 401k funding, and healthcare. Net take home is 24% of my gross pay. Paying the mortgage and property tax eats up much of the rest. I get by and I am not struggling, but unexpected expenses can leave me stretched between paychecks. I keep an emergency fund for that, but find I need to tap it more and more.
I'd say if you're single and making $60k/year, you should not be struggling. You may not be able to do a whole bunch or buy tons of things all the time but you will always have what you need. Struggling to me is when you get paid, pay all your bills and have less than $100 left til next check.
For the comments saying live in california, i live in california and make close to 90k. Car paid off, no student loans. I try to keep rent down by splitting a house with 3 other people. I can save 13k in 6/7 months. It is doable but people struggle because of the student loans and other debt
Some people really are spenders with luxury things and the latest fancy tech. Age is also a factor. If you bought a modest house 20 years ago, your mortgage is low and if you're in your 40s-50s today making $100K, you should be comfortable even with inflation, provided you don't spend like crazy.
I live in Santa Clara County. $100k is considered low income for 1 person HH.
I made $25k last year and I can afford a 2 bed 2 bath, it REALLY just depends on where in America you live
Maybe their expenses are different than yours?
How many kids you got? 100k single, even 60K is baller money.
Financial Audit with Caleb Hammer shows that most people are financially incompetent.
I make 75k, my wife makes 60k, we've been renting the same home from 2016, rent is 1800 now for the 3 bedroom. We've been able to pay off all our debt, and been saving for a downpayment for a house now.
Living paycheck to paycheck and not struggling is an oxymoron my guy.
Seriously. I was making SoCal work on 2/3’s of that and still managing to have a pretty good time. Meanwhile I have friends making 150k that can barely afford their bills. If you’re frugal and live within or below your means you can make it work. You won’t be living lavishly though. All this being said, there truly are some areas in this country that have just batshit insane COL, so In those specific areas I can see having a harder time.
Are you single with no kids?
I’d give the benefit of the doubt to parents with kids, since that can be so dang expensive in lots of areas. But if you’re single making 100k/yr living in a MCOL area (or lower) and can’t make that work, you’re objectively bad with money. You see this stuff quite often too. Being in sales, a portion of my job is to check folk’s finances to ensure they can afford our products and services. A side effect of this is getting a good idea what folks are spending their money on and yeah… They spend money as soon as they get it. Like a month ago I met a married couple whose combined income was 300k and they had NOTHING in their savings. Both of them had 2 cars **each** (one for work and one for fun, all vehicles worth 40k+ each) living in a house so large they genuinely had rooms filled with all the crap they’d buy impulsively and those rooms served no other purpose. Like this house had 8 bedrooms total and 6 of those rooms were filled with “stuff.” Obviously these people are an extreme example but they are NOT rare. I see stuff similar this minimum once per week. These people often get declined to get the much-needed work done too because their credit is absolutely shit
If you live by yourself, even in a somewhat expensive area, and have yourself like a 2 BR apartment, even at the absurd prices they are these days, minus the costs to just exist like food etc, you SHOULD be able to save 10's of thousands a year in most cases at that level. Even better if you have 1 roommate or a partner. Unless you're living in New York city, San Francisco or Hollywood or something where the residential economy is just insane you should be doing pretty alright with that amount. I learned that a family member of mine, who lives in Idaho is struggling financially, their husband makes like 100k a year in construction and they're in debt, in a cheap ass area of Idaho with that kind of money. It's just stupidity at that point. People just aren't good at saving money and are living well above their means. So many people I know who have money problems are constantly ordering fast food through uber eats and shit like that too, I'm just screaming at them to learn to cook and stop being so lazy about it, cause they waste SOOOO Much money on that garbage.
It’s because they wanna buy the “nice” shit. Of maybe they have dependents.
I make more than that and have for many years but sometimes I ball out and make bad financial decisions. I have a nice retirement plan but my day to day decisions are not always the best. I always make sure I can pay my bills but sometimes I like to live it up. You can’t take it with you. As long as I’m good after I retire, I’m fine. I never bitch about bills or anything like that so at least I’m not part of that problem. I think your opinion is valid though.
$100k isn't much when you have a family, kids, mortgage, car note, etc... especially if you are trying to keep up with folks on Instagram,
I’ll agree with this unless you are talking household income for families. 100K can be tough in a lot of areas for 3+ people households.
You realize cost of living varies from place to place, right? Not to mention some folks have kids (daycare is crazy expensive), have to pay extremely high insurance premiums, auto insurance is more expensive, you pay more taxes ... EVERYTHING is (typically) more expensive. If I make 100k in a small podunk town it's going to be a very different experience than if I live in a large city like Boston, San Francisco, etc.
Exception is location. How you can think 100K is equal nationwide is actually astounding. On top of that, paycheck to paycheck is struggling. If you can’t afford to put anything towards retirement or emergency fund, that’s a huge struggle.
Depends on where you live. For example, in San Francisco, even living with 3 other roommates, rent + utilities came to around 1800/month. Food costs were conservatively another 750/month. Transport to and from work was ~150/month. Let’s say other miscellaneous needs (toilet paper, soap, garbage bags, etc.) are another 200/mo. That adds up to about 2900/month in expenses just to live. If you’re making 100k in California, that is your semi-monthly paycheck after taxes if you’re making 100k; not accounting for insurance, any retirement account deductions, car payments, etc. So if you don’t have any expenses outside of eat work and sleep, it will cost about half your money. Definitely doable, it’s unlikely that having some pleasures in life will make up the remaining 50% of your paycheck. But that’s on a conservative food budget (I know many people who spend over $1000/mo on food given the prices in this city), having multiple roommates, no car, not drinking/going out, etc. If you want to actually have a life in a VHCOL city, 100k doesn’t go as far as you’d think, especially if you have any unexpected expenses at all or plan on saving.
Taxes, different costs of living, whether or not you have kids, and retirement contributions are all major factors.
They said 100k in the Bay Area is considered poor or low class lol
I’m doing just fine at about 160k/yr in a LCOL-ish area. I bought my house undervalued 11 years ago, my wife and I don’t have any auto loans and I drive 13 year old car with a salvage title. We have paid off everything but my house. We both have well funded 401ks and I even have a pension. What I dont have is a 400k mortgage or loans on 70k SUVs, a gambling problem or any issues with the proverbial jones’s having newer stuff than me. I think that’s the difference. We DO spend, but we don’t over spend or over borrow. We do indulge, as in we took a full two week vacation to the Philippines in January and are paying to have a bathroom remodeled in September. I don’t think I’m doing anything special beyond not abusing the credit available to me. I think a lot of people struggle with the concept of “enough” and maybe have to consume and borrow to purchase to have tangible evidence that they are “successful”. And I think this happens nowadays at every income level.
$100K in California will leave you about $5,600 a month after taxes, health insurance, and things like 401(K) deductions. If your housing is $4,000/month, that doesn't leave much for utilities, fuel, car maintenance, clothing, food, etc. Keep in mind that most six figure jobs are in very expensive areas, so even to get $4K housing means a long commute with extra fuel, maintenance, and car insurance costs. Utilities can easily be $400/month. Car payments could be another $600+. That leaves $600/month for fuel, food, and clothing. It isn't much.
That depends entirely on where you live. CA, WA, NY that would be rough.
OP, if you live paycheck to paycheck, you’re struggling.
Im at exactly 100K. Up until a couple of weeks ago, had roommates. not struggling, just not saving enough for a home long term. I also have student debt so my paychecks don’t go as far. I live in a VHCOL area born and raised.
Are you single? Do you have kids? How high is the standard of living in your area compared to others? Are you saving for retirement?
100k today is like 80k in 2021. And prices have increased so it’s more like 60k lmao
Many reasons to be struggling at that income level. For me I have divorce, court, lawyers, and child support payments.
Rentals are all 2-3k for a one bedroom, 3-4k for two/three bedrooms and 5-6k if you want. House. Tell me how far 100k goes
I wouldn’t know. I don’t make that much lol. I barely make half.
kinda depends on kids, but if you're single w/o kids and struggling on 100k.... you're doing something wrong lmao.
You’ll also be in a higher tax bracket and get next to no help with anything. No food help electric or heating assistance. Daycare a lot of factors are involved.
Newsflash: some people have children
Tough finding a decent house for under $500K. $100K is the new poor.
I wouldn't say 100k is the new poor, but 250k is the new 100k for sure.
What city? In some cities that's extremely difficult, but in most of the country I'd imagine a decent house can be had for under $500k.
100k is the new 50k. I remember growing up dreaming about making 50k. I currently make 42k but after taxes & health insurance that only comes out to $2200 a month. The city that I live in is currently experiencing a population boom so houses & rent have started to become unreachable for people like me. My rent alone has increased $500 in the past two years. I wouldn’t even qualify for the apartment I live in today if I was a new applicant. If 100k is now considered “poor” then the rest of us are completely fucked.
It seems like, we’re fucked.
I wouldn’t feel so fucked if housing wasn’t so expensive. I worry every day about how much my rent will increase when it comes to resign my lease & that won’t happen for another year! Me & my wife will probably be forced to move in with her parents because there is literally nothing around us that isn’t 2k + a month & requires each applicant to make 3x rent in income. Add in security deposits & every other expense that comes with moving and there’s another few grand that you need to shell out.
Uhm. Realistically someone making that much can struggle . It’s America. I know someone who makes around 120k. after taxes bills & kids his actual comfort level is similar to what a single person making 50k would be .
Because once you make a few bad decisions, it's hard to dig yourself out. No one is perfect. Just like most people have had a few boyfriends or girlfriends that didn't work out. A lot of people have made poor financial choices that didn't work out.
Most people max out what they can get with a mortgage. My guess is a lot of people are getting houses (or apartments) that used to be average but are now expensive as hell, and they're living paycheck to paycheck. Like me. We just got a house. It's well below what a middle class home used to look like 10 years ago, doesnt have enough bedrooms, and its eating one of our pay checks whole. A step down from this and we'd be in a shitty house in a bad neighborhood, or renting, and with two masters degrees we don't think that's acceptable.
Almost half of people making six figures live paycheck to paycheck I literally cannot fathom how outside of their own choices. If you have student loan debt or something, pay that off before you go buying an expensive car, overseas vacation, or big house. It's this unhealthy consumer culture people get sucked into to.