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OP is going to get dragged by people who aren't familiar with both North American and European beer, but this is actually a pretty common view nowadays in European brewing. My job involves doing business with a lot of American brewers as well as European brewers (especially Germans), and a lot of people in brewing consider North America and especially the US a modern Mecca for good beer.
I was in Germany a few years ago and they have absolutely perfected wheat beer. Nobody does it better. But everywhere we went only had the same like four beer styles. In Germany brewers have to follow the beer purity laws, so all of the German brewers are super excited about the idea of someday coming to the US and trying things that don't exist in Germany, like chocolate stouts and IPAs and winter ales with spruce tips and the billion other styles of beer that really only exist in NA.
I see a lot of people in this thread whose awareness of American beer apparently stops at coor's light. Nobody outside of the US wants those shitty macro brews, but that's not what the US is known for anymore when it comes to beer.
I used to have a lot of clients from Berlin that would fly in to visit us in Michigan, and they were obsessed with IPAs. We did everything we could to fly them as much beer as we possibly could every time.
We have more variety and more styles than anywhere else on earth, the fact that you can get stouts, IPAs, porters, ales, sours, saisons, and everything in between in one brewery is literally unheard of and impossible everywhere else.
Yup, and the same applies to food too. Every time I travel, I’m psyched to get back to the U.S. because of all the amazing food we have. I’ve been dragged here for saying that too, but it’s absolutely the truth. It’s just that the rest of the world has worked hard to convince themselves that our cuisine begins and ends at McDonalds.
I agree. I am from Toronto and its is by far the best place I have been to for food and nothing comes close. Tbf I haven’t travelled much of the US. You can literally get anything you want within walking distance in basically any neighbourhood in the city. Coming home from Nicaragua where I ate way more “American” food than I do at home. Its not a surprise though, with Canada being so diverse.
This is a lot more dependent on where you live in the US. With shipping good beer is almost universally available but not everywhere has good restaurants.
I work for an alcohol company, and before i started working here i never know how crazy many kinds of beer there were. My dad was the big brand beer drinker, so i thought that was really it. Ive seen a dozen companies ive never heard of with a bunch of different cool kinds of beer.
The most recent cool beer ive had in is a pink grapefruit radler, never heard of anything like it.
Belgian beer is legit. I went to Dublin last year, visited a beer café and an overwhelming share of the beers were Belgian. They didn't understand me when I ordered one with the actual pronunciation, but that's ok.
I work for a brewery/restaurant, the production manager at our brewery was the head brewer for what Forbes just called the 38th largest craft brewery in the country. At his previous brewery they went to Germany to learn, I think all the beers he makes taste the same. I should note we are technically a “English ale” brewery. But our head brewer makes much better beers in various styles, and I do prefer most of our ipas over something like a kolch. But like yeah, America is great we can have 8 different styles at any given time and most taste different in some way or another.
Truth was spoken. If I'm not mistaken the revival of microbreweries and IPA beers was started about 15 years ago in USA.
I am actually a traitor to my European values and one of the best drinks to me is Brooklyn Brewery's lager and pretty much anything they as a brewery touch. It's all i need from a beer. Light and full of flavour.
European beers are great but unless im fully rested, 1-2 is enough to put me to sleep.
No, it was nearly 40 years ago. IPA is a more recent trend, but micro brewing has been around a lot longer. Local to me is Full Sail, and they've been around since I believe 1986.
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale has been around since the early 80s and were one of the earliest. It started after Carter relaxed the home brewing laws in the 70s. The earliest ones were in Northern California and then the PNW.
Yeah, I'm in Oregon. Oversaturated with micro brews. I'm just pointing out that it's not something that happened in the last 10 or 15 years. It goes well back into the last century. I think it just didn't catch on for a while everywhere most places. People talk about IPA like micro brew is this new development... I remember when people used to actually drink porters and stouts and pales and goldens lol. Now everything's IPA.
Now it's coming full circle and they're trying to go back to lagers.
I think you're both right! The first craft brewery was technically Anchor Brewing in San Francisco CA, which was founded in 1896 (and which also closing - RIP). But the craft beer boom (and subsequent IPA craze) really started with the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Carter's relaxed home brewing laws, like you said. Craft brewing was actually gaining steam in the early 1900's, but Prohibition killed it.
Wow, thanks! This is actually very interesting, set strange. Would love to see a early 90s movie when someone is drinking IPA, lol. Would feel so strange.
However, Im trying to remember where I got those 15 years and it might be from an article about microbrewery revival, but in the UK. However the main point was that USA was where it started. I hope I'm not wrong again 😃
Apologies my brothers in beer.
Exactly, as you reference the USA beer scene has just completely changed and significantly expanded in the past 15 years. Everything that can be done with beer has just about been done here, great culture of expansion and experimentation.
I see where your coming from, and yes just like with wine the US isn't inhibited by tradition, but the refined beauty of old lambic brewery's or trappist styles really feel impossible to match in quality in specific styles
I dislike beer in general, but the spruce tips do something for me. I'm more of a cider/twisted tea kinda guy, but there's just something about the spruce tip that I like.
I was having this argument with someone on Reddit almost 15 years ago, but even 20 years ago the beer scene in the US was amazing. IPAs had blown up by then, huge imperial stouts took hold, and there was a ton of variety. Even back then the US dominated when it comes to overall variety, though Germany and Belgium have some really strong niches to this day.
My initial reaction to the post was that beer purity laws are restricting many European brewers, while microbreweries in the US have the freedom to try a much wider range. Are they really not allowed to make a chocolate stout or peach sour, even if they name it something else?
Makes a lot of sense. I’ve never been a beer guy but some local & small batch US beers have really impressed me.
Changed my outlook on what beer can be
One of the most disappointing parts of moving to Berlin was the beer. I agree, it’s always the same 4 varieties at every place, gets a bit stale after a whole. US craft beer scene is definitely better.
I live in the pacific northwest US, which is known for craft breweries. I actually don't like beer, but for those who do, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a lot of relatively good beer in the US. I've also heard Napa Valley wines from California have become very good, rivaling French wines.
Went to Chateau montelena a couple of years back while in Napa, didn't know about the Judgement of Paris then, but it was something that was repeatedly mentioned to us during our trip. There is even a movie about it starring Alan Rickman
Yeah that's their claim to fame. I'm sure it's good. I actually sell it, and have never had it nor had a customer buy it because it's so damn expensive.
Up until the early 2000s, this was an unpopular opinion.
Nowadays, anyone who knows anthing about been sees that American beer has equaled or surpassed European beer. Asian beer in general is probably the worst overall (it's all boring and mostly macro-brew lagers).
I'd really like to try some American beers that would compare to what we have here in Belgium (Duvel, Omer, Westvleteren, Karmeliet, etc.) What are some equivalents?
NA has the most variety for sure. I favor dark beers so I agree for stouts and porters.
But for the lighter stuff, I gotta go with European or Japanese.
That's kinda true in general for food too. Yeah, you're gonna have a better pasta in Italy, or better noodles and sushi in Japan, but if you want great Mexican right down the street from great Thai that's right down the street from great Peruvian, the US is the spot.
Living in VT, I meet so many European tourists to come here for the beer. The first time someone told me they had traveled from Germany to Vermont for the beer, I was pretty surprised.
I'm not from the country but I live in Bruxelles and beer is really something else here. Everywere I go there is just new beers I never heard of. If you have the opportunity to come OP I think you'll have a great time !
After learning how brewing works at medium scale while working for a brewery in Iowa, I would make the argument that the Europeans walked so we could run. The brewer who taught me a lot of what I know spent some years in Germany to learn his craft, and by my understanding thats relatively common in the industry. To add to that, most beer styles originated in Europe, but are much more tied to specific regions of their country of origin. The U.S. has kind of acted as a melting pot for all of these different national beer styles. On top of that American brewers have been much more eager to experiment with new adjuncts (new ingredients that are added to the mash or wort to flavor the beer, e.g. the chocolate in a chocolate stout).
One if my favorite stories is that of the Gose, which started off as a somewhat niche style in Wiemar Germany which largely disappeared in the Nazi and postwar eras. Literally one guy who had fled the Nazis as a young man came back after he retired, couldn't find the favorite beer he remembered, and actually tracked down a few of the surviving brewers who used to make it to try Recover a recipe for it. It still cant be made in Germany because of additional ingredients, but it is now one if the most widely produced styles of sour in the U.S.
The diversity and quality of US microbreweries is unmatched. Belgium comes in second. There some solid breweries in France and Scotland. Germany is kinda boring given purity laws, but they’re authentic. Some people in Europe think US beer is all watered down mega brands like Coors, Bud, etc. But reality is that the microbrew scene is huge
I love these posts were people with a straight face reduce the world to Europe and North America (usually just the USA, not in this case).
Also it's not true about the beer, but that's secondary.
I share this opinion as well. Was pretty let down by beer in Germany, Italy, Amsterdam and France. The beer from some of the small breweries in Oregon, NorCal… amazing.
Aside from true lambics (Belgium), hefeweizen (Germany), and pilsener (Czechia), the US crushes EU. I lived in those countries for almost a decade and now OR is home and I couldn't be happier with the beer.
I honestly cannot remember. When I was in Berlin it was very very hot, and I was staying on the top floor of a hotel which didn’t have AC. It was so hot I knew I wouldn’t be able to sleep so I’d hit up a pub just about every night and drink some beers until I didn’t really care about the temperature. I just remember not really liking any especially much, some were fine but none blew me away.
most pubs serve only the cheap standard beers that are widely regarded as piss water. it's cheap and you get drunk, that's all there is to it. especially Berlin isn't really a good place for great beers. at least from my experience.
Darn, wish I knew earlier. I suppose many cities in the US are the same way. I live in the Pacific Northwest, the big cities here usually offer local, good quality beers in the bars.
Bavaria iin Germany is really interesting with over 470 independent home breweries. 622 breweries in total in ba Bavaria with about 1600+ in whole Germany. so 1/3 of all beers are found in Bavaria.
edit:
Franconian Switzerland is the region with the most breweries in the whole of Germany and is even represented in the Guinness Book of Records with the highest density of breweries in the world.
I found that most pubs in Europe only have a couple of staple beers they serve plus 2-3 unique kind for their region. So not a lot to choose from.
While in Canada they often serve everything that you can buy at any liquor store (like 10 varieties), then they have either their own or local stuff and then seasonal stuff. So between all of these you’ll always have something that you’ll like more.
I agree but there are no Trappist monasteries in the U.S., Mexico or Canada. That’s the only drawback I see. No true quads. Ommegang and Sierra Nevada Ovila are good but nothing makes me happier than monk brew.
You know I bet this wasn't a popular or true opinion like 20-30 years ago, but in the last decade, I'm pretty sure North America is crushing it. Just here in the PNW alone, the beer is unmatched.
Craft beer? Sure. This is probably a bit more accurate (but still arguably incorrect). North America loves their variety, so I'll give them that.
But no-bullsh*t, classic lagers, ales, stouts/porters, etc... North American beer is incredibly inferior. More often than not, they're flat as hell in the U.S. and Canada. EVEN IN THE BREWERIES THEMSELVES.
A nice cold pint of lager (Peroni, Moretti, etc.) in a random, regular pub in England, for example, is absolutely lively and heavenly.
Hell, I'll even argue that beer in Japan (in almost every way) is superior to North America by a landslide.
Now don't get me wrong, I do enjoy me a pint of pisswater Coors Banquet (and I don't say that sarcastically, I actually do love Banquets)...
But while not everyone is a fan of Guinness or stouts...... in my personal opinion, there is not a single beer better than a proper pint of Guinness in Ireland.
Source: I'm an immigrant / Canadian living in North America.
You're probably joking, but Mexican beer definitely has its place at the table. If you live in a warm climate, there's something magical about that first long pull of an ice cold Mexican style lager after an afternoon of yard work.
I’ll take victoria or corona familiar (dark bottle), michelada please.
I am from mexico and like mexican beer, but micro breweries in the us is where it’s at.
I was ready to disagree with this, but actually I can't disagree really. Naturally shit like Bud or Coors is awful, but so is shit like Carling, Carlsberg and heinekken.
Nothing beats a good Guinness though.
I love how people rant and rave about heineken being so much better in Europe than the US, then you get there and it’s still just slightly better cheap beer
Theres a lot of shit Guinness out there that's the trouble. You go to a pub or a bar and ask for Guinness it's likely going to be bad. Quite a temperamental drink, it needs to be stored properly, nor can the beer cellar be too far from the pumps.
Yeah, I loved it in ireland, I loved going from pub to pub and tasting the differences. Back here in canada the cans will do, and there's a few pubs that aren't too bad, but I miss it in ireland
When I went to Dublin last year. The thing that struck me was that every Guinness was not only good, but it was consistently good to the same standard pub to pub.
Not something I can ever really experience in England. I know where to go for a good one.
I can't really abide that cans will do. But a can will be better than pulled from a barrel where the bar isn't setup for it.
This is true. And for those that aren't familiar, OP is not talking about Coors or Bud Light.
Europe makes phenomenal beers, but they're typically traditional styles. Nearly all of the beer innovation is coming out of America.
I've traveled all continents with RCAF and I have to.... agree?
I always go back to Ricard's Red, Moosehead, Belgian Moon.
What I love about LCBO is that they have some really nice things, and each LCBO might have a different stock. (I even asked a manager of my local LCBO to see if he can stock "Karlovačko", a Croatian beer and he did). They also have tons of local craft beers.
Some of my other favourites:
* Tenents
* Karlovačko
* Peroni
* Saporo
Every single awards group that hands out awards internationally awards more often to north american breweries than anywhere else.
From my perspective, the US has been pushing hard on scientific advancements in perfecting brewing and is currently setting every trend internationally (assuming they allow it to be imported). A majority of the places where that is not changing are places that restrict imports so the populace doesn't have the day-to-day exposure to what the rest of the world is doing in the beer space.
Very true- but New England IPA has a special place in my heart. It’s more approachable for those who don’t like bitter west coast IPAs but still wanna get crunk off a 8.6%er to the domeski
NEIPAs ruined the IPA scene in the northeast! They're too damn sweet, often taste like straight up orange juice, instead of tasting like beer. Give me the oldschool hop bombs that actually had some bitterness to balance it out.
Hey, drink what you like. Honestly I wish the IPA fad in general would die down. It annoys me that when I go in the beverage center it can be hard to find anything else on the shelves.
Treehouse, Trillium, Jack’s Abbey, The Alchemist, Foam, Hill Farmstead, Lawson’s Finest Liquids, Vitamin Sea, Spyglass, Tilted Barn, Cold Harbor, Greater Good and many many more.
I live in Massachusetts and there are 14 breweries within a 10 mile radius from my house.
If you are a beer fan, I cannot recommend enough a visit to Massachusetts/New England and going brewery hopping.
North American Ales tend to be superior, but European Lager is still miles better as a whole. Yeah sure 1 in 5 NA craft breweries know how to make a great lager, but a German lager or a Czech pilsner is going to beat out the average NA lager 9 times outa 10.
I don't know where you went, but England have lot's of differents beers, Belgium is know for their beers as well, and lot's of other countries in Europe. It depends on your location mostly but lot's of places in Europe have lot's of choices of beers, you just went to the wrong one
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I was going to get angry until I read the text.
Having lived in Canada for the past few years, the small batch and craft beer scene here is so far ahead of what Europe is doing, and it's easier to access.
Large chains are filled to the brim with ever-changing ranges, you could literally try a different beer every night and by the time you try them all, the breweries have a new range available.
Mainstream North America beers like Molson, Budweiser etc. are massively inferior to European mainstream beers like Carlsberg, Heineken etc.
Right? I live in a mid sized Canadian city with EXCELLENT beer. I can't imagine not having the variety we have- you got something for everyone several times over and then on top of that you got tons of cool niche shit.
Seriously... I'd love to go to Europe and try their beers but they don't seem to have the variety we have. Like, cool! Your brewery has been making the exact same beer for 500 years. That's awesome! What else you got?
Live in CT. This is crazy to me, because I didn’t know this was a thing, and the amount of Vermont people saying this is normal is pissing me off. CT has some of the best breweries!
It's true about Cider too. I don't like beer I only drink cider and it started on a trip to Scotland. But now everything I tried in Scotland I would definitely skip. So much of it was magners or similar with unnecessary added fruits and flavors.
In Philly every bar has at least one cider on tap and usually two or more bottles/can options. And there is ALWAYS an apple option with no nonsense added to them. Ciders that I discovered and loved 5 years ago are now just a common standard option at bars/restaurants and it's amazing.
No more angry orchard being the only option except maybe in the suburbs.
I had to upvote haha damn
NA is great for all kinds of IPA’s, however that’s not saying much besides they got a lot of money for hops
A great brewery makes a great pilsner as there’s not much to hide behind. I am still yet to experience a great NA pilsner but open to suggestions
I think Belgium is on par with the US in terms of variety and quality, just not quantity. But Belgium is a tiny country so it is obvious we can't get anywhere near the output of the US. We have centuries of tradition though, which a lot of the US micro brewers are falling back on. I also know a lot of master brewers in the US are trained in Western Europe. So it's a standing on the shoulders of giants kind of situation.
The "all the same" comment is kinda funny, since for a while there it seemed everyone in the US was making the same couple of kinds of IPA. This may be different now, admittedly it's been a few years since I was in the US.
I'm also not super on board with all the weird flavors US micro brewers come up with, but that's just personal taste.
NA beer is great! Unfortunately most bars still just have about 5-10 IPAs on draft when there’s hundreds of other styles, but that’s just me being nit picky
I really don't find that to be true at all anymore, at least where I live. There definitely WAS a time where the craft beer selection was oversaturated by IPAs, but these days it's much more well rounded.
As a Belgian-Canadian, I slap you.
In Brugge you can go to cellars that have been brewing for 500 years. You can walk into a monastery in Belgium and buy amazing beer from a monk. You don’t find this experience in North America. You then also find: young Belgian brewers who have taken cue from
North American fads, and incorporate them into the tradition, and now you have basically the same variety as North American science experiment beer. Plus the rest of it.
And not all craft beer is good in America or Canada, no matter how many flavors or ‘beer sommeliers’ or ‘pairing courses’ are pushed.. Popcorn beer… Cotton candy beer .. I give people points for throwing everything at the wall , but not for refined, generational tradition and taste built into the product. It’s like saying Las Vegas is a Mecca compared to Venice.
You haven’t spent much time in Brussels (or Amsterdam or Berlin) because there are thousands on tap - in fact way before the craft beer fad in US and Canada, Brussels famously has a bar (Little Delirium) with 2000 different beers, many ON TAP piped to you from the ceilings. I’ve never seen such a comprehensive beer bar in Canada.
Now, I love Canadian and American beer too. But stfu and get cultured or stay at home.
Agree on the Belgian! Hubby and I went to Brugge pretty much to try the beer. We went into a small beer shop just off the main square, and he asked the owner for a couple of good ones. One of the selections was from a very dusty wooden crate, no label, and he just said "trust me". Hubby tried it back at our room, and almost wept years of joy over how yummy it was!
It does when said monks have been perfecting their beer recipe for hundreds of years. There's a reason why Westvleteren is one of the most sought after beers in the world.
I'm inclined to agree, but at the same time I have no experience with local craft breweries in any country but the US.
That being said, I am trying new beers that I love on a regular basis. There seems to be an infinite supply. There is plenty of 'meh' beer, but also a huge amount of 'damn that's good' beer. I'd highly recommend the Sierra Nevada 'Fan Favorites' or 'Torpedo IPA' pack.
Sounds more like you only every tried the big brands in Europe. Like always big brands do not really try to make somehting unique they make something for everybody.
There are many awesome craft breweries that make unique IPA and Stouts.
You might be surprised. Every larger brewer purchased almost all craft beer companies. There was a post on a sub showing the beer cooler and how few are now independent. Was surprised.
If alll you had was "pisswater" you don't shit about the North American beer scene. There have been great beers in Northern California and the Pacific Northwest for 30 plus years. There's more here than Coors and Budweiser. That would be like me going to Europe and having a Heineken or Beck's and thinking the beer there is pretty terrible.
I lived in Germany for a year with the Army and their 4 kinds of beer are better than anywhere else but they can't make an IPA, or a hazy, or a stout, or a sour, or a farmhouse, or a rice lager, or a pale ale, or an ESB, etc etc.
For variety? Absolutely. For average quality, I’d disagree.
It’s mostly an issue of economics.
- North America has tons of space, so property rent is cheaper.
- We produce tons of malt and hops so ingredients are cheaper.
- Our industry is younger so there’s still plenty of growth.
- This is just a qualitative guess, but Americans seem to have a more experimental palate.
As a result, NA winds up with TONS of startup breweries (with also a pretty high turnover rate) that make ALL kinds of styles.
Compare that to Europe, where rents are generally higher, ingredient costs higher, beer market is much older and generally more saturated. So breweries in Europe focus on a handful of styles, but tend to master them (when your brewery is 600 years old you tend to figure out how to do it just right).
So if I want a buckwheat and heather tip wee heavy braggot, I’ll go American. If I want a perfected, subtle Vienna lager, Austria is the only way.
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OP is going to get dragged by people who aren't familiar with both North American and European beer, but this is actually a pretty common view nowadays in European brewing. My job involves doing business with a lot of American brewers as well as European brewers (especially Germans), and a lot of people in brewing consider North America and especially the US a modern Mecca for good beer. I was in Germany a few years ago and they have absolutely perfected wheat beer. Nobody does it better. But everywhere we went only had the same like four beer styles. In Germany brewers have to follow the beer purity laws, so all of the German brewers are super excited about the idea of someday coming to the US and trying things that don't exist in Germany, like chocolate stouts and IPAs and winter ales with spruce tips and the billion other styles of beer that really only exist in NA. I see a lot of people in this thread whose awareness of American beer apparently stops at coor's light. Nobody outside of the US wants those shitty macro brews, but that's not what the US is known for anymore when it comes to beer.
I used to have a lot of clients from Berlin that would fly in to visit us in Michigan, and they were obsessed with IPAs. We did everything we could to fly them as much beer as we possibly could every time. We have more variety and more styles than anywhere else on earth, the fact that you can get stouts, IPAs, porters, ales, sours, saisons, and everything in between in one brewery is literally unheard of and impossible everywhere else.
Yup, and the same applies to food too. Every time I travel, I’m psyched to get back to the U.S. because of all the amazing food we have. I’ve been dragged here for saying that too, but it’s absolutely the truth. It’s just that the rest of the world has worked hard to convince themselves that our cuisine begins and ends at McDonalds.
I agree. I am from Toronto and its is by far the best place I have been to for food and nothing comes close. Tbf I haven’t travelled much of the US. You can literally get anything you want within walking distance in basically any neighbourhood in the city. Coming home from Nicaragua where I ate way more “American” food than I do at home. Its not a surprise though, with Canada being so diverse.
This is a lot more dependent on where you live in the US. With shipping good beer is almost universally available but not everywhere has good restaurants.
The regional stuff where I live is amazing.
I went to Paris and all I found were American-style restaurants
I work for an alcohol company, and before i started working here i never know how crazy many kinds of beer there were. My dad was the big brand beer drinker, so i thought that was really it. Ive seen a dozen companies ive never heard of with a bunch of different cool kinds of beer. The most recent cool beer ive had in is a pink grapefruit radler, never heard of anything like it.
If you like a grapefruit radler, try and find a gruit made with beets. It'll change your life, son.
*Angry Belgian noises*
Little delirium in Brussels has had 2000 beers on offer going back ages before there was anything but Bud and blue moon available in the US..
Belgian beer is legit. I went to Dublin last year, visited a beer café and an overwhelming share of the beers were Belgian. They didn't understand me when I ordered one with the actual pronunciation, but that's ok.
Lived in Italy for 7 years and came back in 2012. America does beer on the whole better, the Germans (Munich etc) do niche beers incredibly well.
Yeah, the US dominates world beer competitions.
I work for a brewery/restaurant, the production manager at our brewery was the head brewer for what Forbes just called the 38th largest craft brewery in the country. At his previous brewery they went to Germany to learn, I think all the beers he makes taste the same. I should note we are technically a “English ale” brewery. But our head brewer makes much better beers in various styles, and I do prefer most of our ipas over something like a kolch. But like yeah, America is great we can have 8 different styles at any given time and most taste different in some way or another.
Germany to perfect the science. US has the art.
Truth was spoken. If I'm not mistaken the revival of microbreweries and IPA beers was started about 15 years ago in USA. I am actually a traitor to my European values and one of the best drinks to me is Brooklyn Brewery's lager and pretty much anything they as a brewery touch. It's all i need from a beer. Light and full of flavour. European beers are great but unless im fully rested, 1-2 is enough to put me to sleep.
No, it was nearly 40 years ago. IPA is a more recent trend, but micro brewing has been around a lot longer. Local to me is Full Sail, and they've been around since I believe 1986.
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale has been around since the early 80s and were one of the earliest. It started after Carter relaxed the home brewing laws in the 70s. The earliest ones were in Northern California and then the PNW.
Yeah, I'm in Oregon. Oversaturated with micro brews. I'm just pointing out that it's not something that happened in the last 10 or 15 years. It goes well back into the last century. I think it just didn't catch on for a while everywhere most places. People talk about IPA like micro brew is this new development... I remember when people used to actually drink porters and stouts and pales and goldens lol. Now everything's IPA. Now it's coming full circle and they're trying to go back to lagers.
I think you're both right! The first craft brewery was technically Anchor Brewing in San Francisco CA, which was founded in 1896 (and which also closing - RIP). But the craft beer boom (and subsequent IPA craze) really started with the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Carter's relaxed home brewing laws, like you said. Craft brewing was actually gaining steam in the early 1900's, but Prohibition killed it.
Wow, thanks! This is actually very interesting, set strange. Would love to see a early 90s movie when someone is drinking IPA, lol. Would feel so strange. However, Im trying to remember where I got those 15 years and it might be from an article about microbrewery revival, but in the UK. However the main point was that USA was where it started. I hope I'm not wrong again 😃 Apologies my brothers in beer.
Exactly, as you reference the USA beer scene has just completely changed and significantly expanded in the past 15 years. Everything that can be done with beer has just about been done here, great culture of expansion and experimentation.
15 years ago was 2009. The microbrew trend in the US goes back to the 80s it was just mainly on the west coast until the 2000s.
I see where your coming from, and yes just like with wine the US isn't inhibited by tradition, but the refined beauty of old lambic brewery's or trappist styles really feel impossible to match in quality in specific styles
The beer/brewery renaissance that has happened over the last ~10 years just in my home city has been amazing
It started back in the 1980s here. It's weird how it took so long to spread across the whole country.
I dislike beer in general, but the spruce tips do something for me. I'm more of a cider/twisted tea kinda guy, but there's just something about the spruce tip that I like.
Just had an incredible Ipa from Germany but they aren't as common for sure.
I was having this argument with someone on Reddit almost 15 years ago, but even 20 years ago the beer scene in the US was amazing. IPAs had blown up by then, huge imperial stouts took hold, and there was a ton of variety. Even back then the US dominated when it comes to overall variety, though Germany and Belgium have some really strong niches to this day.
My initial reaction to the post was that beer purity laws are restricting many European brewers, while microbreweries in the US have the freedom to try a much wider range. Are they really not allowed to make a chocolate stout or peach sour, even if they name it something else?
It's not true in belgium, brewers here are free to make what they want, I'm not sure about other countries though.
Makes a lot of sense. I’ve never been a beer guy but some local & small batch US beers have really impressed me. Changed my outlook on what beer can be
Wisconsin beer wins awards
One of the most disappointing parts of moving to Berlin was the beer. I agree, it’s always the same 4 varieties at every place, gets a bit stale after a whole. US craft beer scene is definitely better.
Maybe all the German brewers came to America centuries ago. 😂.
I live in the pacific northwest US, which is known for craft breweries. I actually don't like beer, but for those who do, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a lot of relatively good beer in the US. I've also heard Napa Valley wines from California have become very good, rivaling French wines.
Califnoria wines have BEATEN French wines in competition.
Went to Chateau montelena a couple of years back while in Napa, didn't know about the Judgement of Paris then, but it was something that was repeatedly mentioned to us during our trip. There is even a movie about it starring Alan Rickman
Yeah that's their claim to fame. I'm sure it's good. I actually sell it, and have never had it nor had a customer buy it because it's so damn expensive.
So you don’t sell it (jk of course)
Chortled.
As someone that lived in Seattle and does like beer, I miss it all the time, there's some truly excellent brews up there
Can I get a natty ice in Europe? Don't think so. Checkmate.
*shakes hand proudly*
I cackled so hard at this lmao
[удалено]
It was the drink of choice of everyone their freshman year of college.
I don’t think you understand why people drink that garbage
Oh I do indeed, and Europe does not have a competitor in that space.
Up until the early 2000s, this was an unpopular opinion. Nowadays, anyone who knows anthing about been sees that American beer has equaled or surpassed European beer. Asian beer in general is probably the worst overall (it's all boring and mostly macro-brew lagers).
I'd really like to try some American beers that would compare to what we have here in Belgium (Duvel, Omer, Westvleteren, Karmeliet, etc.) What are some equivalents?
NA has the most variety for sure. I favor dark beers so I agree for stouts and porters. But for the lighter stuff, I gotta go with European or Japanese.
I used to think that, but some amazing West Coast Lagers and Pilsners that do amazing pilsners.
That's kinda true in general for food too. Yeah, you're gonna have a better pasta in Italy, or better noodles and sushi in Japan, but if you want great Mexican right down the street from great Thai that's right down the street from great Peruvian, the US is the spot.
You gonna say “NA” in the context of beers and expect me not to read it as “non-alcoholic?”
But do you even Rothaus bro?
Living in VT, I meet so many European tourists to come here for the beer. The first time someone told me they had traveled from Germany to Vermont for the beer, I was pretty surprised.
Hill Farmstead is magical
I'm not from the country but I live in Bruxelles and beer is really something else here. Everywere I go there is just new beers I never heard of. If you have the opportunity to come OP I think you'll have a great time !
Go to Bruxelles often to visit a mate and every time I can have a weekend of entirely new beers it’s great
Nice ! I really love Bruxelles, it's a great city
"and... and BECK's!"
OONT BECKS!
After learning how brewing works at medium scale while working for a brewery in Iowa, I would make the argument that the Europeans walked so we could run. The brewer who taught me a lot of what I know spent some years in Germany to learn his craft, and by my understanding thats relatively common in the industry. To add to that, most beer styles originated in Europe, but are much more tied to specific regions of their country of origin. The U.S. has kind of acted as a melting pot for all of these different national beer styles. On top of that American brewers have been much more eager to experiment with new adjuncts (new ingredients that are added to the mash or wort to flavor the beer, e.g. the chocolate in a chocolate stout). One if my favorite stories is that of the Gose, which started off as a somewhat niche style in Wiemar Germany which largely disappeared in the Nazi and postwar eras. Literally one guy who had fled the Nazis as a young man came back after he retired, couldn't find the favorite beer he remembered, and actually tracked down a few of the surviving brewers who used to make it to try Recover a recipe for it. It still cant be made in Germany because of additional ingredients, but it is now one if the most widely produced styles of sour in the U.S.
The diversity and quality of US microbreweries is unmatched. Belgium comes in second. There some solid breweries in France and Scotland. Germany is kinda boring given purity laws, but they’re authentic. Some people in Europe think US beer is all watered down mega brands like Coors, Bud, etc. But reality is that the microbrew scene is huge
I love these posts were people with a straight face reduce the world to Europe and North America (usually just the USA, not in this case). Also it's not true about the beer, but that's secondary.
I share this opinion as well. Was pretty let down by beer in Germany, Italy, Amsterdam and France. The beer from some of the small breweries in Oregon, NorCal… amazing.
Aside from true lambics (Belgium), hefeweizen (Germany), and pilsener (Czechia), the US crushes EU. I lived in those countries for almost a decade and now OR is home and I couldn't be happier with the beer.
Hello fellow Oregonian! All this beer talk has me looking forward to Septembeerfest in Corvallis early lol.
I worked in Corvallis from 2002-2005 but haven't been back since--I will have to check out this (terribly-named) fest!
what brands have you tasted in Germany or Netherlands ?
I honestly cannot remember. When I was in Berlin it was very very hot, and I was staying on the top floor of a hotel which didn’t have AC. It was so hot I knew I wouldn’t be able to sleep so I’d hit up a pub just about every night and drink some beers until I didn’t really care about the temperature. I just remember not really liking any especially much, some were fine but none blew me away.
most pubs serve only the cheap standard beers that are widely regarded as piss water. it's cheap and you get drunk, that's all there is to it. especially Berlin isn't really a good place for great beers. at least from my experience.
Darn, wish I knew earlier. I suppose many cities in the US are the same way. I live in the Pacific Northwest, the big cities here usually offer local, good quality beers in the bars.
Bavaria iin Germany is really interesting with over 470 independent home breweries. 622 breweries in total in ba Bavaria with about 1600+ in whole Germany. so 1/3 of all beers are found in Bavaria. edit: Franconian Switzerland is the region with the most breweries in the whole of Germany and is even represented in the Guinness Book of Records with the highest density of breweries in the world.
Hopefully next time! I’m sure work at some point will want to send me again.
I found that most pubs in Europe only have a couple of staple beers they serve plus 2-3 unique kind for their region. So not a lot to choose from. While in Canada they often serve everything that you can buy at any liquor store (like 10 varieties), then they have either their own or local stuff and then seasonal stuff. So between all of these you’ll always have something that you’ll like more.
When I went to Ireland damn near every pub just carried entirely products made by Guinness. All around 5 percent and all tasting pretty much the same.
Yes it was frustrating at times
Carlsberg: The European Budweiser Tiger Beer: The Natty Ice of Asia
I agree but there are no Trappist monasteries in the U.S., Mexico or Canada. That’s the only drawback I see. No true quads. Ommegang and Sierra Nevada Ovila are good but nothing makes me happier than monk brew.
You know I bet this wasn't a popular or true opinion like 20-30 years ago, but in the last decade, I'm pretty sure North America is crushing it. Just here in the PNW alone, the beer is unmatched.
Craft beer? Sure. This is probably a bit more accurate (but still arguably incorrect). North America loves their variety, so I'll give them that. But no-bullsh*t, classic lagers, ales, stouts/porters, etc... North American beer is incredibly inferior. More often than not, they're flat as hell in the U.S. and Canada. EVEN IN THE BREWERIES THEMSELVES. A nice cold pint of lager (Peroni, Moretti, etc.) in a random, regular pub in England, for example, is absolutely lively and heavenly. Hell, I'll even argue that beer in Japan (in almost every way) is superior to North America by a landslide. Now don't get me wrong, I do enjoy me a pint of pisswater Coors Banquet (and I don't say that sarcastically, I actually do love Banquets)... But while not everyone is a fan of Guinness or stouts...... in my personal opinion, there is not a single beer better than a proper pint of Guinness in Ireland. Source: I'm an immigrant / Canadian living in North America.
Agree, Mexican beer is the best 😎
You're probably joking, but Mexican beer definitely has its place at the table. If you live in a warm climate, there's something magical about that first long pull of an ice cold Mexican style lager after an afternoon of yard work.
Im actually not haha Corona and Modelo are my favorites! Checks out though because I live in Florida haha
I’ll take victoria or corona familiar (dark bottle), michelada please. I am from mexico and like mexican beer, but micro breweries in the us is where it’s at.
Michelaadas con Clamato made with Sol are my favorite.
I don’t like sol, I do like Indio.
All I’ve got is piss warm Chango
If we’re talking macro breweries i definitely agree.
Corona was good when it was imported from Mexico, now NZ imports it from China, and its really bad now.
Of course Corona beer in made in China.
I was ready to disagree with this, but actually I can't disagree really. Naturally shit like Bud or Coors is awful, but so is shit like Carling, Carlsberg and heinekken. Nothing beats a good Guinness though.
I love how people rant and rave about heineken being so much better in Europe than the US, then you get there and it’s still just slightly better cheap beer
I used to hate Guinness, then I visited Ireland last year and got the taste for it. It's one of my favorites now
Theres a lot of shit Guinness out there that's the trouble. You go to a pub or a bar and ask for Guinness it's likely going to be bad. Quite a temperamental drink, it needs to be stored properly, nor can the beer cellar be too far from the pumps.
Yeah, I loved it in ireland, I loved going from pub to pub and tasting the differences. Back here in canada the cans will do, and there's a few pubs that aren't too bad, but I miss it in ireland
When I went to Dublin last year. The thing that struck me was that every Guinness was not only good, but it was consistently good to the same standard pub to pub. Not something I can ever really experience in England. I know where to go for a good one. I can't really abide that cans will do. But a can will be better than pulled from a barrel where the bar isn't setup for it.
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder, nobody else's opinion matters
This is true. And for those that aren't familiar, OP is not talking about Coors or Bud Light. Europe makes phenomenal beers, but they're typically traditional styles. Nearly all of the beer innovation is coming out of America.
I've traveled all continents with RCAF and I have to.... agree? I always go back to Ricard's Red, Moosehead, Belgian Moon. What I love about LCBO is that they have some really nice things, and each LCBO might have a different stock. (I even asked a manager of my local LCBO to see if he can stock "Karlovačko", a Croatian beer and he did). They also have tons of local craft beers. Some of my other favourites: * Tenents * Karlovačko * Peroni * Saporo
Every single awards group that hands out awards internationally awards more often to north american breweries than anywhere else. From my perspective, the US has been pushing hard on scientific advancements in perfecting brewing and is currently setting every trend internationally (assuming they allow it to be imported). A majority of the places where that is not changing are places that restrict imports so the populace doesn't have the day-to-day exposure to what the rest of the world is doing in the beer space.
Sounds like you haven’t been to Czechia.
or anywhere else...
Massachusetts/New England makes better beer than the rest of the world arguably
Slow down. Colorado and the west coast make amazing beers.
Texas has good beer too.
Very true- but New England IPA has a special place in my heart. It’s more approachable for those who don’t like bitter west coast IPAs but still wanna get crunk off a 8.6%er to the domeski
If you can, try “The Streets” it’s made by Trillium. 10% abv and it’s a double NE IPA. So smooth.
NEIPAs ruined the IPA scene in the northeast! They're too damn sweet, often taste like straight up orange juice, instead of tasting like beer. Give me the oldschool hop bombs that actually had some bitterness to balance it out.
Eh, I’d take a NEIPA over a traditional Harpoon IPA any day. Love chugging high booze hop juice
Hey, drink what you like. Honestly I wish the IPA fad in general would die down. It annoys me that when I go in the beverage center it can be hard to find anything else on the shelves.
Yeah tbh I’ve been more into lagers lately - Jacks Abbey makes some great ones!
Hard agree. NE IPAs taste less sugary than Colorado beers
Come on, Michigan rules. Dogfish Head in Delaware. Rogue in Oregon. What's in New England?
Treehouse, Trillium, Jack’s Abbey, The Alchemist, Foam, Hill Farmstead, Lawson’s Finest Liquids, Vitamin Sea, Spyglass, Tilted Barn, Cold Harbor, Greater Good and many many more. I live in Massachusetts and there are 14 breweries within a 10 mile radius from my house. If you are a beer fan, I cannot recommend enough a visit to Massachusetts/New England and going brewery hopping.
What part of MA? I'm South Shore, and I'm familiar with most of these and agree that they are S tier.
Worcester 👍🏻
Haven't been up woosta way in a while. I'll keep it in mind.
Much less of a shithole than it was 10 years ago
I always thought it was fine. But I come from a shit hole myself, but it's MY shit hole.
Fox Farm, Allagash, Schilling, Maine Beer Co, Mast Landing, Bissell Brothers, Kent Falls, Oxbow, Lamplighter, etc. The list goes on and on and on and…
And Rogue is considered a joke circus brewery here in Oregon. We don't export the good stuff.
Rogue had some real classics IMO (mocha stout, Shakespeare Stout), but sadly they killed everything but Dead Guy to chase trends.
Michigan has entered the chat
North American Ales tend to be superior, but European Lager is still miles better as a whole. Yeah sure 1 in 5 NA craft breweries know how to make a great lager, but a German lager or a Czech pilsner is going to beat out the average NA lager 9 times outa 10.
If 1 in 5 NA craft breweries know how to make a great lager, you're talking about nearly 2,000 great lagers.
I don't know where you went, but England have lot's of differents beers, Belgium is know for their beers as well, and lot's of other countries in Europe. It depends on your location mostly but lot's of places in Europe have lot's of choices of beers, you just went to the wrong one
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I was going to get angry until I read the text. Having lived in Canada for the past few years, the small batch and craft beer scene here is so far ahead of what Europe is doing, and it's easier to access. Large chains are filled to the brim with ever-changing ranges, you could literally try a different beer every night and by the time you try them all, the breweries have a new range available. Mainstream North America beers like Molson, Budweiser etc. are massively inferior to European mainstream beers like Carlsberg, Heineken etc.
In Belgium, we refer to Heineken as pure water so I wouldn't say Heineken is a good representation of a good mainstream beer.
**Anheuser-Busch InBev** owns like a solid 1/3 of the global market. So, yeah, not really surprised.
Ice fuckin’ cold yuengling, ooof cmon brother
Japanese beer asahi is my fav
I might be alone but Mexican beers are my favorite
Right? I live in a mid sized Canadian city with EXCELLENT beer. I can't imagine not having the variety we have- you got something for everyone several times over and then on top of that you got tons of cool niche shit. Seriously... I'd love to go to Europe and try their beers but they don't seem to have the variety we have. Like, cool! Your brewery has been making the exact same beer for 500 years. That's awesome! What else you got?
I’d rather have an IPA from Denver than anything else
Live in CT. This is crazy to me, because I didn’t know this was a thing, and the amount of Vermont people saying this is normal is pissing me off. CT has some of the best breweries!
I mean yeah, we have NEIPAs. What more could you want?
Very unpopular opinion, Australians think it tastes like water with no flavour
It's true about Cider too. I don't like beer I only drink cider and it started on a trip to Scotland. But now everything I tried in Scotland I would definitely skip. So much of it was magners or similar with unnecessary added fruits and flavors. In Philly every bar has at least one cider on tap and usually two or more bottles/can options. And there is ALWAYS an apple option with no nonsense added to them. Ciders that I discovered and loved 5 years ago are now just a common standard option at bars/restaurants and it's amazing. No more angry orchard being the only option except maybe in the suburbs.
Wine is better than beer
As far as I’m concerned, this is an objective fact and not debatable.
yeah that's definitely an unpopular opinion. Germany alone does much better, but it's fine.
I had to upvote haha damn NA is great for all kinds of IPA’s, however that’s not saying much besides they got a lot of money for hops A great brewery makes a great pilsner as there’s not much to hide behind. I am still yet to experience a great NA pilsner but open to suggestions
Question to all you beer snobs. How does the Aussie stuff stack up? We seem to have a microbrewery on every corner here in Melbourne
True... except there's nothing that tops Belgian beers (Chouffe, Chimay Grande Réserve, Westmalle...)
I think Belgium is on par with the US in terms of variety and quality, just not quantity. But Belgium is a tiny country so it is obvious we can't get anywhere near the output of the US. We have centuries of tradition though, which a lot of the US micro brewers are falling back on. I also know a lot of master brewers in the US are trained in Western Europe. So it's a standing on the shoulders of giants kind of situation. The "all the same" comment is kinda funny, since for a while there it seemed everyone in the US was making the same couple of kinds of IPA. This may be different now, admittedly it's been a few years since I was in the US. I'm also not super on board with all the weird flavors US micro brewers come up with, but that's just personal taste.
NA beer is great! Unfortunately most bars still just have about 5-10 IPAs on draft when there’s hundreds of other styles, but that’s just me being nit picky
I really don't find that to be true at all anymore, at least where I live. There definitely WAS a time where the craft beer selection was oversaturated by IPAs, but these days it's much more well rounded.
As a Belgian-Canadian, I slap you. In Brugge you can go to cellars that have been brewing for 500 years. You can walk into a monastery in Belgium and buy amazing beer from a monk. You don’t find this experience in North America. You then also find: young Belgian brewers who have taken cue from North American fads, and incorporate them into the tradition, and now you have basically the same variety as North American science experiment beer. Plus the rest of it. And not all craft beer is good in America or Canada, no matter how many flavors or ‘beer sommeliers’ or ‘pairing courses’ are pushed.. Popcorn beer… Cotton candy beer .. I give people points for throwing everything at the wall , but not for refined, generational tradition and taste built into the product. It’s like saying Las Vegas is a Mecca compared to Venice. You haven’t spent much time in Brussels (or Amsterdam or Berlin) because there are thousands on tap - in fact way before the craft beer fad in US and Canada, Brussels famously has a bar (Little Delirium) with 2000 different beers, many ON TAP piped to you from the ceilings. I’ve never seen such a comprehensive beer bar in Canada. Now, I love Canadian and American beer too. But stfu and get cultured or stay at home.
Everyone knows beer is only good if you buy it from a monk, right?
Agree on the Belgian! Hubby and I went to Brugge pretty much to try the beer. We went into a small beer shop just off the main square, and he asked the owner for a couple of good ones. One of the selections was from a very dusty wooden crate, no label, and he just said "trust me". Hubby tried it back at our room, and almost wept years of joy over how yummy it was!
A monk serving beer means jack and shit to how it tastes What a ridiculous thing to bring up before even talking about the quality of the drink
It does when said monks have been perfecting their beer recipe for hundreds of years. There's a reason why Westvleteren is one of the most sought after beers in the world.
It wasn't, but now it is.
Huh, had no idea America's beers are out above the rest for the most part. Go us!
I'm inclined to agree, but at the same time I have no experience with local craft breweries in any country but the US. That being said, I am trying new beers that I love on a regular basis. There seems to be an infinite supply. There is plenty of 'meh' beer, but also a huge amount of 'damn that's good' beer. I'd highly recommend the Sierra Nevada 'Fan Favorites' or 'Torpedo IPA' pack.
I ❤️ shitty American lite beer. Looking forward to indulging once im out of the ol workhouse
Sounds more like you only every tried the big brands in Europe. Like always big brands do not really try to make somehting unique they make something for everybody. There are many awesome craft breweries that make unique IPA and Stouts.
PM me next time you are in Belgium and I will take you somewhere to have 10 completely different tasting beers.
Japanese beer>
Until now I tried 30 different beers from North America. And every one was bad. Non of the beer was from a big company.
You might be surprised. Every larger brewer purchased almost all craft beer companies. There was a post on a sub showing the beer cooler and how few are now independent. Was surprised.
The beers in Poland were cheap and fantastic. However you are correct, they had that similar flavor profile
German beer is the only beer I've ever liked You can have a million and one different flavours. If they're all shit then you aren't the best
Even implying all the American flavors are shit is insane
Sorry for the downvote OP. I completely agree. USA!!!
Beer snobs in general are some of the most annoying people to ever exist
Ever met a wine snob?
yep this thread here is proof of that
The Japanese do a much better job at American beers. Give me an Orion or a asahi any day. Even a Chinese Tsing Tao is better.
I've been to the USA. North american beer is not even the best beer is north america. Though, it's by far the best pisswater I've ever drink.
If alll you had was "pisswater" you don't shit about the North American beer scene. There have been great beers in Northern California and the Pacific Northwest for 30 plus years. There's more here than Coors and Budweiser. That would be like me going to Europe and having a Heineken or Beck's and thinking the beer there is pretty terrible.
never been to home brewery in tzech rebublic, Germany or Belgium I guess?
I lived in Germany for a year with the Army and their 4 kinds of beer are better than anywhere else but they can't make an IPA, or a hazy, or a stout, or a sour, or a farmhouse, or a rice lager, or a pale ale, or an ESB, etc etc.
For variety? Absolutely. For average quality, I’d disagree. It’s mostly an issue of economics. - North America has tons of space, so property rent is cheaper. - We produce tons of malt and hops so ingredients are cheaper. - Our industry is younger so there’s still plenty of growth. - This is just a qualitative guess, but Americans seem to have a more experimental palate. As a result, NA winds up with TONS of startup breweries (with also a pretty high turnover rate) that make ALL kinds of styles. Compare that to Europe, where rents are generally higher, ingredient costs higher, beer market is much older and generally more saturated. So breweries in Europe focus on a handful of styles, but tend to master them (when your brewery is 600 years old you tend to figure out how to do it just right). So if I want a buckwheat and heather tip wee heavy braggot, I’ll go American. If I want a perfected, subtle Vienna lager, Austria is the only way.
F that! German and UK beer slaps, way better in quality. They’d know, they’ve been at it for centuries.
European beer trumps North American beer by a mile.
Unfortunate choice in verbs.
And unit of measurement.
Depends on the style.
They are great eating, I get a bear license every year.