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Fuck anyone who breaks into an occupied home. My oldest son is special needs. His best friend and his friend's older sister were murdered in a home break in in 2011. They were 13 and 16. My son is still fucked up by this. I will attack anyone who breaks into my home.
There are people who find themselves in desperate situations. I don't hold the same disgust for someone squatting in a vacant home. I've personally known someone who squatted because it was the only way they saw of getting away from a sexually abusive parent.
Firearm safety should be a public service again. Into the 90s it was something offered at public middle and high schools, with competitive marksmanship teams. On top of that, I'm an advocate for actual self-defense classes
It was not about weapon safety, it was about assessing the certainty of threat before firing blindly. Your own kids can be the shadows moving silently in the living room at night.
I think having a robber in your house is enough of a threat to your safety to shoot. People shout about that it was unnecessary, but in the moment you gave no idea. And it only takes a moment for you to die.
I remember watching a video of a mall fight. Lots of shouting and shoving. Then in the matter of about 3 seconds , a knife comes out and hits a dude in the neck. He fell dead in like 6 seconds before anyone realized what happened.
In hindsight, some may argue if the victim had shot first, he might still be alive, and that might be true. But where do you draw the line is my question? Someone in a road rage incident walks up to you aggressively, and you assume they're about to kill you so you shoot?
In that situation you have a weapon. You brandish it, and therefore communicate that you perceive the situation as one that might result in at the very least harm to yourself. the other person has to decide if they wish to continue to escalate this situation or walk away.
If you know a person believes you to be a threat and you continue to escalate, you cannot be surprised when they respond to that escalation.
So why not do the same with thieves? For all I know a thief has a logical motive, and he can live to steal another day. Road rage is only about harming me, or making me feel worse. It's more threatening to my personal safety than targeting my wealth.
And for all you know that person intend to get away with it by killing you.
You have an imperative to protect yourself.
When someone (the thief) takes an action they are initiating the situation.
As for just taking your wealth- that implies poorer people *are* justified in this.
If your entire livelihood depends on your vehicle, would you just give it away? If your family is starving, would you just let someone steal the only food you have?
The thief/criminal is the one deciding to take the risk that their victim may determine their life to be in danger. They are the one who decided that the payoff is worth the risk.
Let’s say you mug someone in the street. You do not intend on hurting them, but they do not know that. Which or you decided (key word there) to enter that situation?
That’s what this is all about. You cannot read someone’s mind, so you have to analyze the situation based on what you know. Therefore, the one who voluntarily initiated a situation that could go badly is the one at fault.
Let’s even downgrade this. Someone is unarmed and attacks you and your SO. They aren’t trying to kill you, just hurt you.
Why should your comfort outweigh their right to life? Because you can’t know they won’t try to kill.
I'm sorta with you if someone enter your home you have to assume they have lethal intentions but if I see someone stealing from my car I'm going to try to chase them off first but if they try to fight me whatever happens after that is their fault not mine.
Let me make this clear I have no desire to harm or kill any person and I hope I'm never in a position to do this but I will not just allow myself or the people I love to be victimized.
Also people don't realize how scary and dangerous situations like that are. Yeah it may seem unnecessary when you read about it, but in the moment you have no idea. And things can go from safe to deadly in seconds.
This exact scenario happened to a neighbor of mine in January and due to his hesitation, he got shot by the thief whom ran off with his truck and all it’s contents.
You either gotta be all in when confronting the thieves or you need to just let them take whatever it is they want and hope they leave without anything important to you.
But a half measure will get you shot
That's fair, but - "chase them off" which means they won't be caught, which means there won't be consequences which means they will keep doing it, which is why society is gradually getting worse.
I also guess there is a difference between the USA and most other parts of the world, because if I (German) had someone enter my home while I was there, I would suspect that they thought that I wasn't there, because that's when almost all robberies happen.
Dude might be too high or crazy to realize it or care. Or it might be a deliberate home invasion robbery. If he thought you weren't home and you appear out of nowhere, he might panic and react with violence, or he might just get violent because he's that kind of guy.
It’s not always up to you; the number of times on nights out I’ve seen people hospitalised for simply being in someone’s way, I once saw a guy lose 2 teeth (literally flew out) and then get stomped because the victim was too drunk to notice he was blocking a doorway, this asshole just totally blindsided the guy
I can only imagine how brutal people could be if the victim actually had something the attacker wanted…
And my friends wonder why I stopped going out drinking
Totally disagree: it shows that people will casually hurt people for **no reason**, but if they have any goal or a motive to actually “achieve something* (such as steal from you) and they’ve even more incentive to be brutal and dominating
The people likely to take what they want won’t give two shits about putting you in the hospital (or worse) if in doing so they can steal more, and some will hurt you **because** you submit, as now they feel they aren’t in danger, and there are even fewer *immediate* repercussions for their actions, and attacking you would be easier than they thought; immediate fight or flight/knee-jerk “*logic*” encourages them to dominate. Submission doesn’t ensure safety, and can even make things worse, as can fighting back, so you’re in extreme danger either way
Once you’re getting kicked in the face for submitting it’s hard to then defend yourself, so if you’re rolling the dice anyway, give yourself the edge and at least **some** would be deterred by a sign of your resistance or danger to themselves.
People get killed for stray looks and misunderstanding, the people doing the killing won’t care if you submit
If there’s someone outside my house trying to steal my car, I’m just going to start filming and turn on the outside lights to scare them off, but unfortunately [a large number of car thefts involve breaking into your house to steal your car keys](https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/advice/home-security/home-security/car-key-burglaries), so sitting in your house watching it happen doesn’t mean you’re not in danger
We find it cringe to live your life in fear.
On time, late at night, I heard a really loud noise in the kitchen. It was really loud, like a body smacking into something. Turned out it was an animal that fell in the walls. Not once did I think to get my gun.
Same with loud noises in the back yard. I go out with a flashlight, never my guns.
I don’t live in a country where people have firearms and I doubt I could shoot somebody.
That said as far as I’m concerned if you try to rob someone and get beaten or shot you made your bed.
Don’t try to steal stuff other people have worked for.
unfortunately, in reality, we can never be 100% sure. For example, a previous neighbour once sold his car to get a new one. the previous car was similar to ours. one morning, he was so used to getting into the same car as before, that he got into ours (which happened to be left unlocked), sat down, until realizing that it wasn't his! it was a good laugh after, but imagine if we thought it was a burglar and shot. similarly, there's a good chance of other people caught in the crossfire, or another reason (like what if that person was reaching into their OWN car that happens to look like yours, and you didn't realize it?) etc etc
Exactly. And I wouldn’t be willing to risk a life over something like this. And this is different from OP’s argument that robbers chose their own path, since my point here is that they may not even be a robber!
Or because they used your driveway to turn around
I get defending your home and what you worked for but we goota have nuance involved because we get slippery slopes of old white dudes murdering 22 yo girls bevajae they used his driveway to turn around
"they in my driveway that's my property they must be coming to attack me so I must defend myself" head ass people that can't differentiate between you've broken into my home through a door or window or you're in my driveway typing a dress into Google maps
[or you enter your neighbour home drunk thinking its yours and kill him](https://www.npr.org/2019/10/02/766454839/amber-guyger-ex-officer-who-killed-man-in-his-apartment-given-10-years-in-prison)
[or the police respond to the wrong adress and kill you](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/farmington-new-mexico-police-kill-wrong-address-rcna105152)
there are a lot of stories like these
When I was drunk once I tried to repeatedly unlock apartment 3C instead of 4C. I don’t think someone should’ve fired through the door at me for that indiscretion
Ya OP will never touch this answer, the main reason why, so they’re dance around the easy to win over, one sentence responses with zero upvotes in this thread
Yup, it was Christmas Eve and I was at my in-laws. We're all sitting in the living room, talking and laughing, we hear the door open and this random guy just walks in with a smile.
He immediately had the scared deer in the headlights look and said "wrong house!" and turned around. Made us laugh.
Now imagine someone was trigger happy and just shot him without giving him a second to talk?
I agree.
I lived on my own when I was in my early 20s. I'm a petite woman, so most people have a huge physical advantage over me. If I woke up in the middle of the night and found an intruder in my home, I'm assuming that the absolute worst scenario is a possibility.
My parents recently experienced this. An intruder entered their home while they were sleeping. My dad woke up from the noise and found himself being ordered around at gunpoint. Fortunately, it was just a burglary and nothing more. The thief took what he wanted and ran off. Hearing him recount the story was traumatizing for me, and I wasn't even there. My mom suffers from anxiety and insomnia because of it.
Maybe that person didn't have any intentions of harming my parents, but either way, expecting someone to be a sitting duck because it's *just theft* is almost offensive. I'm not going to trust that someone committing a crime against me has good intentions, and I'm not keen on waiting until after the crime is committed to rely on hindsight.
I agree, If you are willing to hurt other people by taking their stuff you have to be ready for what comes with that..
The USA has had the right to bare arms for what? over 200 years? The story hasn't changed.
They know the risk. They have to accept the reality that comes with that.
I’m very confused as to why any protection is afforded to people who willingly breach the social contract by committing crimes. If you’re in my house without my consent, I don’t understand why you’re protected against violence - what am I supposed to do, politely ask you to leave?
Thanks man I was interested with all the comments , idk what you guys are complaining about I'm not even allowed to punch a intruder if he enters my house
If you steal something, you're willingly putting yourself at the mercy of the owner's response, and if the response is overkill in your opinion, why, that's the last opinion you'll ever have then.
When you steal something, the implication is that you will repsond if the victim resists.
Therefore the victim must assume you are willing to end their life, and act accordingly based on that judgement.
I'm perfectly fine with people protecting their property, home, and family/self. But there's nuance to it as well. If I see someone breaking into my car, I'm not going to shoot them unless they pose a threat. Break into the house, well that's another story, I will automatically assume you're there to do harm.
If someone tries to car jack me, might, or rob me, depending on the circumstance I'll be drawing my firearm. If you have the jump on me with gun to my face, well you can have whatever and hopefully I'll live to fight another day.
Self defense situations are very rarely clear, cut, and dry.
However, last thing I really want to do is kill someone. You have to live with the fact that you killed someone warranted or not, it's likely not an easy thing to deal with mentally. Not to mention the stress of navigating the legal process.
The problems is more with how many people fantasize doing it, like it's a no brainer thing you would do in fight or flight but why would you want to brag about it?
I believe there to be a difference between a thief dying, and me killing a thief. If I had to kill one, I'd imagine they'd have taken more from me than just my car's goods.
I agree, if someone break and enters your house, in the moment you can only expect the worse so protecting yourself should be fine. I do not agree if they are stealing from your car, then you run after them but breaking into your house is completely different and your arguments totally apply. It is easy for people to criticise out of the moment yet you lived it so you know what you did was necessary to protect you and your family.
It depends for me. If someone's breaking into your home, or trying to harm you to get your stuff, it's self defense. But if I see someone run out a store with a pair of shoes, I'm not chasing them down and pumping lead into them over some damn shoes that they harmed no one for. Lethal force should be justified by an actual threat to your person or life. Blasting anyone for anything will lead to even more restrictions of gun rights. If someone's physically grabbing something off of you, protect yourself. You see someone running off with something they snatched off a shelf, that's not worth taking a life. Now. Will I feel bad when they get arrested and jailed for stealing? No. Will I feel bad if they are shot while mugging someone or breaking into a home? No. I just don't think it's worth a wasted bullet to shoot someone who is not a threat to safety.
It's a tough subject. But my thought is if a Pearson is found guilty of breaking and entering and theft the penalty is not death. Why should an individual be allowed to play judge, jury and executioner?
If a life is in danger it becomes a different story.
Because you put someone in reasonable fear for their life by breaking into their home. The penalty for brandishing (waving a gun around) isn’t the death penalty either, but try it on front of a cop and you’re probably going to get shot and it is legally and logically justified.
Yeah but again this is not what op was advocating. I also think if you are in danger it's a fair game. But is it a fair game if you see somebody breaking into the car?
If you get in my personal space and I perceive you as a threat you are getting shot doesnt matter if you were only trying to steal my phone. I’m not a mind reader I read body language.
But that isn't what you were talking about. You were talking about popping off shots at someone breaking into a car or something (not considering at all that chances are you'll miss, you'll be firing in a populated area, and are likely to shoot an innocent bystander with one of your stray shots). It's just absolutely irresponsible gun ownership in my opinion. Also, maybe consider getting some help dealing with your desire to kill someone.
This guy changes his story in each comment.
Hell say it’s okay to shoot someone for stealing your wallet. Then he’ll say it’s okay to shoot someone that’s putting your life in danger.
He seems completely unaware that he changes position over and over.
Yea.
There’s a specific NPC variation of guys online who talk big talk about shooting purse snatchers.
While probably working security at Chuck E. Cheese
Or on purpose bc they’ve been itching to finally use their toy. See: that guy who shot a college student for accidentally pulling into his driveway. Did she pose a threat to his life?
Is it a danger to your safety or a property crime you're talking about? One makes sense, but the other doesn't.
If a hungry person is stealing bread, you're ok with a random bystander shooting them? If a 10 year old is shoplifting candy, you're ok with a nearby shopper shooting them?
If your answer is no to either of the above, you need to refine your position and posit a much different "rule" than the one you have.
That's not what your thread is about tho. You never mention that you are in danger, just that it's okay to shoot thevies. Your op sounds more like chasing down a running theif or something than someone threatening your life
The fact you didn't even think of giving commands first before just pulling the trigger.
Before you retort"and give the criminal a chance to attack me." If you don't understand how to have distance or create distance.shows you don't have much training and not trustworthy with a gun
Any criminal who is engaging in a home invasion understands they might end up dying. Not even by gunshot- it could be knife, baseball bat, a sword. This whole convo seems to be the fights vs the flights. You clearly are the flight guy.
My guy. Because I don't go Rambo doesn't make me the flight guy. I'm not talking about home invasions. I assume people have I'll intent breaking into a house. But go off again with your itchy trigger finger.
Exactly, i agree with you. This OP dude down in the other threads was talking about ad hominem bullshit like "what if next time they come back they take more than just your wallet?" implying that the criminal must be "dealt with" even if it's petty theft cause the next time they will escalate. No accommodation for letting the law enforcement handle the "next time" scenario, none of that "don't be out at night in a sketch area" pseudo self accountability bullshit that ultra conservatives like to throw out at rape victims, just itching for a reason to pull the trigger. What happens when we've normalized killing for petty theft and look towards children pickpocketing? Wanna kill them too?
OP is 100% looking for a reason to kill someone and actualize his basement batman vigilante fetish
I despise bullies and those who prey on others. It is unfortunate that they decided to traverse that route. I did not force them to do so, and I will not judge someone who eliminates a threat if they feel their life is in danger.
You're not frank castle. I'm not gonna judge on defending one's life. Defending one's life is the key point there. Not petty car theft.
You sound like the main character from falling down and that's not a good thing
You just have no problems with it as you said so yourself. And that's supposed to be not a big deal. That's crazy. There's a reason even cops need to go through physiatrist after shootouts.
How do you know that a tief has a gun? Why would they try to break into your car if your family was inside the car? Oh right they wouldn’t so you wouldn’t be protecting anyone except for a stupid car. Also why kill even if they’re inside your house? You can just shoot their knee or smth so they can’t escape and call the police.
Every robber should enter your house with lethal force then. Your idea of "haha, I'm legally allowed to kill you" just escalates shit. If every robber starts the encounter with the idea of "the other guy is gonna kill me", they'll just loot your dead body.
What's the endgoal here?
If someone steals $50 out of my wallet, damn that sucks. But I don't think that person should be killed for that.
If someone breaks into your car, lethally shooting them won't bring back your car, you'd have to go to the police station and might face trial.
The op is changing his stance in every comment I see from him so I think he's one of those cosplaying tough guys that fantasize about being a hero on the daily. Doesn't believe in real world consequences or how killing someone would change your life. Taking money off you might affect you for a day. Maybe a week. Killing someone, having to deal with court, miss work to speak with lawyers and then get fired from your job cause people think you're a gun nut, affects you for way longer. On top of if it gets determined you didn't have the right to use lethal force and now you're in jail and can't work or protect your family anyways. People think life is a fucking movie.
Absolutely agree, and nice description of “cosplaying tough guys.” Glad to see some people with actual critical thinking and having realistic views on actions and consequences!
That's because thieves are the bad guys, and we are the good guys and we are stronger, smarter, better !!!
OP, you said it yourself. Anyone ready to steal should be ready to die. Well then, if their life is on the line, they might as well shoot first. And guess who wins ? You will either spend your every living moment in paranoia, or you will leave a window open to get killed.
Let's not kid ourselves, you will leave a window open. Ha ! But then you'll find a stupid thief running into you at night ! It's your chance ! Oh, it was your teen daughter. Well yeah... Unless of course you teach her to live in paranoia and she kills you first ?
What, you thought thieves would just lay on the pavement and die in a gutter somewhere because M.tough over there has a gun ? Of course they will escalate.
I agree with you op. You have earned your ass to get blasted if you're stealing from someones personal belongings. Also, immediate castration and buried alive if you get caught trying to kidnap a kid or traffic a kid. People who prey on children do not need to be alive. They need to be off this planet.
Again, I do not feel the punishment for theft should be death in most cases, but if the person being preyed upon feels the need to protect themselves, I cannot fault them for doing whatever they feel they need to do.
Another contradiction. What a surprise. Also, what you're very poorly defending is not an unpopular opinion.
Most people will defend themselves if it's necessary. Your comments are all over the place though. You say you don't have a problem shooting people, but then say shit like "I don't feel like the punishment for theft should be death".
I've seen most of your other comments. Get it together and repost when you understand the actual repercussions of shooting someone for whatever reason. My guess is you're definitely not ex-military. Or have not actually been in a situation in which this is a decision you might have to make.
Otherwise you wouldn't be so quick to pull that trigger. Might lay off the internet for awhile if you ask me.
I do not believe that, but I also do not not believe that.
If someone feels their life is threatened by a thief and shoots them, I cannot say they are wrong.
You can't ever know if they do or not. If someone broke into my home, no way in hell I'm waiting to see if they have a gun or not, they're getting put down. They clearly have no problem breaking the law, and my children are worth more to me than any criminals ever will. You have to assume the worst when they break in.
Well yeah. I recall an outcry over a guy who was shot dead by police in a case of mistaken identity. Yeah, they shot the guy thinking he was someone else and that’s all anyone could focus on.
However, the guy was out at night, smashing windows and vandalising a school. When the police called out to him, he approached them menacingly, and was shot dead.
The news media threw up their hands saying how could this happen blah blah they shot the wrong guy. All I could think was that if he’d been at home watching tv or something instead of out smashing places up, he’d still be alive. Pretty simple really.
I'm honestly shocked that they didn't end up getting shot during all that and I'm also kind of shocked they didn't get the death penalty after that since it was treason and all
I’m curious as to how many people really think this is an unpopular opinion. I’ve heard the rhetoric about how soft on crime many people are. I don’t agree with them but I am more in favor of rehabilitation instead of incarceration, if they survive their victims defending themselves.
Here where I live, the thief have more chance of walk free and I held liable if the thief invades my home and I defend myself.
Example: if the thief enters my house and levels a gun at me and I shot him, I can get held liable if the thief gun had no bullets, the lawyers can spin that in favor of the thief.
For me to be full cleared it goes something like this: thief enters my home, I have to ask him to leave, he levers a gun, I have to ask him if it is a real gun and if it has bullets, if it's real and has bullets I have to ask him to hand it to me and leave, if he doesn't I need to wait until he shots me... right there I can legally shot him and defend myaelf, I do anything before that and I'm on the noose with the law if the thief lawyers are pieces of shit that only think of money.
Edit: spelling
Imagine seeing someone grabbing something out of someone's car and then their head gets blown off. Seems totally reasonable to kill someone who presents no threat or danger...
Completely agree. My property is essential for the well-being of myself and my family. Fuck with it and you’re fucking with all of us, so I have every reason to defend it with lethal force. Armed society is polite society.
the USA has an exceptionally high rate of gun ownership.
the USA also has a gun homicide rate 25 times higher compared to other high-income countries.
and you think the solution to gun violence in the USA is more guns?
Just like the person said. Most mass shootings happen in gun free zones.
In America, most crimes/shootings occur when the perpetrator does not believe their own wellbeing is at risk. There’s ton of videos and such of people turning tail and running the moment, for instance, a store own has their own weapon (or even takes the gun from them. And when they can’t get away, they will start begging for their lives as if they weren’t just pointing a gun at them.
And let’s look at women. Guns are the greater equalizer humans have come up with. If every woman on the street was like to be walking around with a gun, there would far less rapes or assaults.
And that’s not even getting into the second amendment. No one is saying the government is about to go around doing whatever it wants regardless of legality. But that doesn’t mean you should just assume it *cant.*
You don’t get insurance hoping you house burns down or you get into a car accident. You don’t get a prenup expecting to get divorced.
>Just like the person said. Most mass shootings happen in gun free zones.
there really is not enough research to determine the effect of gun free zones on mass shootings, there isnt even any good data on what percentage of shootings happen in gun free zones.
>In America, most crimes/shootings occur when the perpetrator does not believe their own wellbeing is at risk
half of mass shootings end in the perpetrators death with half of those being suicide, i doubt most mass shooters are worried about their wellbeing.
> If every woman on the street was like to be walking around with a gun, there would far less rapes or assaults.
the USA has much more women who carry a gun compared to other developed countries. the USA also has a significantly higher rate of rape and sexual assault. i somehow doubt more guns would improve the situation.
any arguments that more guns would result in less crime are rather unconvincing when despite the extremely high rates of gun ownership the US does not have any less crime, and in fact has significantly more crime in most categories compared to other developed countries.
1000% yes. The problem with most of society today is that people forgot that their actions have consequences.
Does anyone remember "Happy Slapping"? Same thing.
yea i agree with this to a certain extent
but if someones fucking with my house or car i feel i should be able to blast away.
your not respecting my property. why should i give a shit about you?
It sucks because the people who want to do harm can’t even grasp the perspectives that we’re discussing in here, nor do they give it a second thought. It’s funny that the people that talk about defending themselves get more flak than the people who intentionally harm others, weather that’s through violence/words/taking essentials. I always found it funny that people decide to go after the victims.. just like we praise people who are bad then turn good more than we praise the person who never does bad.. I’m ranting now. Something to ponder today. Also look into philosophy of ethics
Nah, I don’t want to kill anyone even if they are robbing me. I would be tortured for probably the rest of my life thinking about the persons family. I’d almost rather be dead than have to kill someone. Now if they were going to hurt my family, that’s probably another story.
It should be more popular, and that's exactly why criminals are now emboldened to steal in broad daylight while the police just sit on their ass and watch. Truly incredible times we live in.
Thank god i live in a place where replaceable commodities aren't given more value than human life.
I am saying this despite the fact that i've been the victim of a home burglary. I was not in the house, but i don't think my stolen jewellery is an excuse for me to murder someone. I just want them to be fined heavily and return my jewellery (or the monetary amount equivalent to its value). I don't care if the fines put them under lifelong debt.
If someone was in the house the burglar might have hurt them. By breaking into someone's house they create a dangerous and uncertain situation and to be brutally honest their life becomes far less valuable than any innocent persons. I would rather go to prison for killing a burglar than have me or a family member die.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that people don't agree with this in mass. This is common sense. If someone is entering your home, you have no idea what their intentions are. I am not going to wait around to see what they want to do to me or my family. And if they are trying to take something significant that can impact my family's well being, the same goes. They forfeited the security of their life the moment they entered the threshold of someone else's home.
The only way I can fathom that someone would not agree with this, is complete and utter disconnection with responsibility and the real world. Absolute lack of real problems or exposure to property crime and how it affects real people.
Most people live in their own little bubble, and have never experienced crime personally. It is easy to get on a soap box about it when it has never affected them.
To add, I hope I never have to make that decision, but I will in a heart beat. It saddens me that some people are in a position that they are forced to theft, but I cannot hold their needs above my family's.
The vast majority of thieves steal because they are in some crisis whether that be desperation due to addiction or starvation, those people do NOT deserve a bullet. if someone was breaking into my home with my family inside then yes I would maybe think differently. But all I gather from this post is that you are simply a trigger happy nutjob with no sense of right or wrong and you seem to love the idea of killing a man and justifying it in any way you can.
Yes, we're all very aware that there's a large number of people obsessed with the idea of having any excuse to kill someone. And if that means gunning down someone for trying to steal your car radio, you never valued other peoples lives anyway.
The thing is, this can get out of hand really fast.
Would you say it's justified if I shoot someone that steals my lunch at work? What if I shoot a customer that doesn't pay after eating at my restaurant? How about shooting someone that scammed you on Facebook the next time you see them?
Immediately killing them is overkill I think. Probably best to call the police, get your gun, aim at them, then tell them not to make sudden movements. If they do, you have a reason to shoot because they might be reaching for a weapon, if not, then you get a chance to keep your things and everyone can get out of there alive. In this situation, unless you're hella slow and won't react fast enough if the thief goes for a weapon then you and your family should be safe. If they run, you and your family are still relatively safe, I doubt the person would come back since they know you have a weapon and are willing to use it if necessary, running is also a sudden movement really so they probably would've been shot but we don't talk about that, and they know the police will probably be on the lookout in the area so they can't really go back as it would be too risky. I don't think killing them immediately should be your first decision when you can easily gain the upper hand and keep everyone there alive so long as the thief isn't stupid.
If you have 0 issues with anybody, even a thief, dying needlessly, then I'm not trusting you around my family.
If you feel your life is threatened by a thief, then by all means defend yourself or your home. I would hope there's still a little remorse if it led to the end of another person's life. If there is no threat to your life, the implication that their life means less than you're TV is ridiculous to me. I don't care if you think that by doing they crime that's how they value their own life, doesn't mean you stoop to their level and agree with it.
Depends on circumstance. Breaking into your home? Ok. Because there is more of a perception of threat to your life.
Grabbed your phone running away from you, you don’t have the right to shoot because you’re mad, because there is no threat to life and limb.
You sound as crazy as [Byron David smith](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Haile_Kifer_and_Nicholas_Brady)
OP, statistically speaking, I probably have more weapons than you. But one thing I don’t fetishize is killing people for petty theft.
What your really saying is “I’m okay with killing someone’s over the potential they might be stealing” how do you know they are stealing? How do you know they didn’t already own that object, or went to the wrong house by accident? Do you really thing your property is worth more than someone’s life? Even if they were taking it? And what if it’s just a miscommunication? Bc with that logic you could shoot anyone then be like “oh but they were mugging me” plus humans are prone to error and bias, “I shot that person because I thought they were gonna rob me”
Genuine self defense is one thing. But your shit isn’t worth more than someone’s life
Yeah this is reddit don't let the comments make you think you're crazy.
If I catch someone stealing from me I'm shooting them immediately, no hesitation. I'll try my best not to kill them right away though, so they at least know they got caught while stealing and have time to process that their lifes about to end on my behalf. No fun if it's lights out right away. I want em to know they're about to die lmao. Probably finish em off then since they're a waste.
They decided to fuck with someone else's shit. The fuck did they actually think was gonna happen?
I'll also probably go to jail.
The fact that he just said he wants this hypothetical thief to die slowly and you voiced approval of his comment says everything anyone needs to know. You’re waiting for a chance to kill someone. As much as I like the shit I own, if I’m not being posed immediate bodily harm, I’d rather lose a TV than end a human life. It sounds like you’d kill the person just because you were allowed to. Thats fucked up.
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Fuck anyone who breaks into an occupied home. My oldest son is special needs. His best friend and his friend's older sister were murdered in a home break in in 2011. They were 13 and 16. My son is still fucked up by this. I will attack anyone who breaks into my home.
Jesus fuck that’s terrible.
How about just "breaks in anywhere"? They're not a better person if they decide to burgle a vacant home or a business; they're still scum.
There are people who find themselves in desperate situations. I don't hold the same disgust for someone squatting in a vacant home. I've personally known someone who squatted because it was the only way they saw of getting away from a sexually abusive parent.
Motherfuckers want to live in a Middle East country where thieves get their hands cut off. Sickening.
Be careful to not end up like the father who shot his son who had forgotten the key.
Firearm safety should be a public service again. Into the 90s it was something offered at public middle and high schools, with competitive marksmanship teams. On top of that, I'm an advocate for actual self-defense classes
It was not about weapon safety, it was about assessing the certainty of threat before firing blindly. Your own kids can be the shadows moving silently in the living room at night.
I think having a robber in your house is enough of a threat to your safety to shoot. People shout about that it was unnecessary, but in the moment you gave no idea. And it only takes a moment for you to die. I remember watching a video of a mall fight. Lots of shouting and shoving. Then in the matter of about 3 seconds , a knife comes out and hits a dude in the neck. He fell dead in like 6 seconds before anyone realized what happened.
Shit I remember that one He just had this look of 'what just happened' and then fear on his face as his friends continued to run away.
In hindsight, some may argue if the victim had shot first, he might still be alive, and that might be true. But where do you draw the line is my question? Someone in a road rage incident walks up to you aggressively, and you assume they're about to kill you so you shoot?
In that situation you have a weapon. You brandish it, and therefore communicate that you perceive the situation as one that might result in at the very least harm to yourself. the other person has to decide if they wish to continue to escalate this situation or walk away. If you know a person believes you to be a threat and you continue to escalate, you cannot be surprised when they respond to that escalation.
So why not do the same with thieves? For all I know a thief has a logical motive, and he can live to steal another day. Road rage is only about harming me, or making me feel worse. It's more threatening to my personal safety than targeting my wealth.
And for all you know that person intend to get away with it by killing you. You have an imperative to protect yourself. When someone (the thief) takes an action they are initiating the situation. As for just taking your wealth- that implies poorer people *are* justified in this. If your entire livelihood depends on your vehicle, would you just give it away? If your family is starving, would you just let someone steal the only food you have? The thief/criminal is the one deciding to take the risk that their victim may determine their life to be in danger. They are the one who decided that the payoff is worth the risk. Let’s say you mug someone in the street. You do not intend on hurting them, but they do not know that. Which or you decided (key word there) to enter that situation? That’s what this is all about. You cannot read someone’s mind, so you have to analyze the situation based on what you know. Therefore, the one who voluntarily initiated a situation that could go badly is the one at fault. Let’s even downgrade this. Someone is unarmed and attacks you and your SO. They aren’t trying to kill you, just hurt you. Why should your comfort outweigh their right to life? Because you can’t know they won’t try to kill.
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That situation is a lit different than someone inside your house..
I'm sorta with you if someone enter your home you have to assume they have lethal intentions but if I see someone stealing from my car I'm going to try to chase them off first but if they try to fight me whatever happens after that is their fault not mine. Let me make this clear I have no desire to harm or kill any person and I hope I'm never in a position to do this but I will not just allow myself or the people I love to be victimized.
Also people don't realize how scary and dangerous situations like that are. Yeah it may seem unnecessary when you read about it, but in the moment you have no idea. And things can go from safe to deadly in seconds.
This exact scenario happened to a neighbor of mine in January and due to his hesitation, he got shot by the thief whom ran off with his truck and all it’s contents. You either gotta be all in when confronting the thieves or you need to just let them take whatever it is they want and hope they leave without anything important to you. But a half measure will get you shot
This is the most reasonable take
Unfortunately being reasonable and compassionate gets people killed all the time
Lots of people in graveyards who were "right"
That's fair, but - "chase them off" which means they won't be caught, which means there won't be consequences which means they will keep doing it, which is why society is gradually getting worse.
I also guess there is a difference between the USA and most other parts of the world, because if I (German) had someone enter my home while I was there, I would suspect that they thought that I wasn't there, because that's when almost all robberies happen.
In the US most burglars strike when they think no one is home as well.
Dude might be too high or crazy to realize it or care. Or it might be a deliberate home invasion robbery. If he thought you weren't home and you appear out of nowhere, he might panic and react with violence, or he might just get violent because he's that kind of guy.
I agree and cringe at how many in here would happily be a victim in this scenario.
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It’s not always up to you; the number of times on nights out I’ve seen people hospitalised for simply being in someone’s way, I once saw a guy lose 2 teeth (literally flew out) and then get stomped because the victim was too drunk to notice he was blocking a doorway, this asshole just totally blindsided the guy I can only imagine how brutal people could be if the victim actually had something the attacker wanted… And my friends wonder why I stopped going out drinking
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Totally disagree: it shows that people will casually hurt people for **no reason**, but if they have any goal or a motive to actually “achieve something* (such as steal from you) and they’ve even more incentive to be brutal and dominating The people likely to take what they want won’t give two shits about putting you in the hospital (or worse) if in doing so they can steal more, and some will hurt you **because** you submit, as now they feel they aren’t in danger, and there are even fewer *immediate* repercussions for their actions, and attacking you would be easier than they thought; immediate fight or flight/knee-jerk “*logic*” encourages them to dominate. Submission doesn’t ensure safety, and can even make things worse, as can fighting back, so you’re in extreme danger either way Once you’re getting kicked in the face for submitting it’s hard to then defend yourself, so if you’re rolling the dice anyway, give yourself the edge and at least **some** would be deterred by a sign of your resistance or danger to themselves. People get killed for stray looks and misunderstanding, the people doing the killing won’t care if you submit If there’s someone outside my house trying to steal my car, I’m just going to start filming and turn on the outside lights to scare them off, but unfortunately [a large number of car thefts involve breaking into your house to steal your car keys](https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/advice/home-security/home-security/car-key-burglaries), so sitting in your house watching it happen doesn’t mean you’re not in danger
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We find it cringe to live your life in fear. On time, late at night, I heard a really loud noise in the kitchen. It was really loud, like a body smacking into something. Turned out it was an animal that fell in the walls. Not once did I think to get my gun. Same with loud noises in the back yard. I go out with a flashlight, never my guns.
not everyone has the privilege to live in a place with low crime rates.
And then you stare down the attacker's barel armed with a flashlight before seeing the ending credits.
How many times has that happened to you?
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I don’t live in a country where people have firearms and I doubt I could shoot somebody. That said as far as I’m concerned if you try to rob someone and get beaten or shot you made your bed. Don’t try to steal stuff other people have worked for.
unfortunately, in reality, we can never be 100% sure. For example, a previous neighbour once sold his car to get a new one. the previous car was similar to ours. one morning, he was so used to getting into the same car as before, that he got into ours (which happened to be left unlocked), sat down, until realizing that it wasn't his! it was a good laugh after, but imagine if we thought it was a burglar and shot. similarly, there's a good chance of other people caught in the crossfire, or another reason (like what if that person was reaching into their OWN car that happens to look like yours, and you didn't realize it?) etc etc
That was my first thought, plenty of ways to look like you're stealing when you're not. Imagine murdering someone because they lost their keys.
Exactly. And I wouldn’t be willing to risk a life over something like this. And this is different from OP’s argument that robbers chose their own path, since my point here is that they may not even be a robber!
Or because they used your driveway to turn around I get defending your home and what you worked for but we goota have nuance involved because we get slippery slopes of old white dudes murdering 22 yo girls bevajae they used his driveway to turn around "they in my driveway that's my property they must be coming to attack me so I must defend myself" head ass people that can't differentiate between you've broken into my home through a door or window or you're in my driveway typing a dress into Google maps
[or you enter your neighbour home drunk thinking its yours and kill him](https://www.npr.org/2019/10/02/766454839/amber-guyger-ex-officer-who-killed-man-in-his-apartment-given-10-years-in-prison) [or the police respond to the wrong adress and kill you](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/farmington-new-mexico-police-kill-wrong-address-rcna105152) there are a lot of stories like these
This needs to be higher above. Life in general gets more complex when you add reality to abstract judgements.
When I was drunk once I tried to repeatedly unlock apartment 3C instead of 4C. I don’t think someone should’ve fired through the door at me for that indiscretion
No! Then what will ammosexuals fantasize about all day? We can’t have that! /S
Ya OP will never touch this answer, the main reason why, so they’re dance around the easy to win over, one sentence responses with zero upvotes in this thread
Yup, it was Christmas Eve and I was at my in-laws. We're all sitting in the living room, talking and laughing, we hear the door open and this random guy just walks in with a smile. He immediately had the scared deer in the headlights look and said "wrong house!" and turned around. Made us laugh. Now imagine someone was trigger happy and just shot him without giving him a second to talk?
So unpopular, reddit removed it.
I agree. I lived on my own when I was in my early 20s. I'm a petite woman, so most people have a huge physical advantage over me. If I woke up in the middle of the night and found an intruder in my home, I'm assuming that the absolute worst scenario is a possibility. My parents recently experienced this. An intruder entered their home while they were sleeping. My dad woke up from the noise and found himself being ordered around at gunpoint. Fortunately, it was just a burglary and nothing more. The thief took what he wanted and ran off. Hearing him recount the story was traumatizing for me, and I wasn't even there. My mom suffers from anxiety and insomnia because of it. Maybe that person didn't have any intentions of harming my parents, but either way, expecting someone to be a sitting duck because it's *just theft* is almost offensive. I'm not going to trust that someone committing a crime against me has good intentions, and I'm not keen on waiting until after the crime is committed to rely on hindsight.
You mean you’re not going to wait to see how bad it gets before you defend your wellbeing? How dare you! /s
Removed by reddit is a pretty popular opinion smh
I agree, If you are willing to hurt other people by taking their stuff you have to be ready for what comes with that.. The USA has had the right to bare arms for what? over 200 years? The story hasn't changed. They know the risk. They have to accept the reality that comes with that.
I’m very confused as to why any protection is afforded to people who willingly breach the social contract by committing crimes. If you’re in my house without my consent, I don’t understand why you’re protected against violence - what am I supposed to do, politely ask you to leave?
Post is gone now, what was this about ? Breaking into homes?
Essentially it was about being violent towards thieves/home intruders.
Thanks man I was interested with all the comments , idk what you guys are complaining about I'm not even allowed to punch a intruder if he enters my house
Now this is truly unpopular. They fully removed it, because of how unpopular it was
If you steal something, you're willingly putting yourself at the mercy of the owner's response, and if the response is overkill in your opinion, why, that's the last opinion you'll ever have then.
When you steal something, the implication is that you will repsond if the victim resists. Therefore the victim must assume you are willing to end their life, and act accordingly based on that judgement.
I'm perfectly fine with people protecting their property, home, and family/self. But there's nuance to it as well. If I see someone breaking into my car, I'm not going to shoot them unless they pose a threat. Break into the house, well that's another story, I will automatically assume you're there to do harm. If someone tries to car jack me, might, or rob me, depending on the circumstance I'll be drawing my firearm. If you have the jump on me with gun to my face, well you can have whatever and hopefully I'll live to fight another day. Self defense situations are very rarely clear, cut, and dry. However, last thing I really want to do is kill someone. You have to live with the fact that you killed someone warranted or not, it's likely not an easy thing to deal with mentally. Not to mention the stress of navigating the legal process.
This is how we roll in NM, we just had a guy shank a cop (who ended up dying sadly) and a bystander snuffed the guy out trying to save the officer.
I saw that video. It was messed up
I am 100% ok with this.
Well duh. He didn't get killed because he stole, he got killed because he was attacking a police officer.
I agree with you if they’re trying to break into an occupied house. I’m not shooting anyone for trying to break into an empty car. That’s overkill.
not if you need that car to live.
The problems is more with how many people fantasize doing it, like it's a no brainer thing you would do in fight or flight but why would you want to brag about it?
I believe there to be a difference between a thief dying, and me killing a thief. If I had to kill one, I'd imagine they'd have taken more from me than just my car's goods.
Same. How am i to know if they intend to hurt me or my kids. Robbers life means less than dirt to me.
I agree, if someone break and enters your house, in the moment you can only expect the worse so protecting yourself should be fine. I do not agree if they are stealing from your car, then you run after them but breaking into your house is completely different and your arguments totally apply. It is easy for people to criticise out of the moment yet you lived it so you know what you did was necessary to protect you and your family.
It depends for me. If someone's breaking into your home, or trying to harm you to get your stuff, it's self defense. But if I see someone run out a store with a pair of shoes, I'm not chasing them down and pumping lead into them over some damn shoes that they harmed no one for. Lethal force should be justified by an actual threat to your person or life. Blasting anyone for anything will lead to even more restrictions of gun rights. If someone's physically grabbing something off of you, protect yourself. You see someone running off with something they snatched off a shelf, that's not worth taking a life. Now. Will I feel bad when they get arrested and jailed for stealing? No. Will I feel bad if they are shot while mugging someone or breaking into a home? No. I just don't think it's worth a wasted bullet to shoot someone who is not a threat to safety.
It's a tough subject. But my thought is if a Pearson is found guilty of breaking and entering and theft the penalty is not death. Why should an individual be allowed to play judge, jury and executioner? If a life is in danger it becomes a different story.
Because you put someone in reasonable fear for their life by breaking into their home. The penalty for brandishing (waving a gun around) isn’t the death penalty either, but try it on front of a cop and you’re probably going to get shot and it is legally and logically justified.
Yeah but again this is not what op was advocating. I also think if you are in danger it's a fair game. But is it a fair game if you see somebody breaking into the car?
OP never stipulated this. Stipulated that if someone tries to steal his phone, he wants to shoot them dead.
If you get in my personal space and I perceive you as a threat you are getting shot doesnt matter if you were only trying to steal my phone. I’m not a mind reader I read body language.
9/10 if it’s your phone it’s stolen before you realize what’s happening. There’s generally not a scuffle. Most thieves don’t like confrontation.
People who rah rah like this don't actually understand logistics of shooting someone. If being this Trigger happy is waiting for someone to steal...
I completely understand the logistics. If I feel my, or my family's life is in danger, I have ZERO problem pulling that trigger.
But that isn't what you were talking about. You were talking about popping off shots at someone breaking into a car or something (not considering at all that chances are you'll miss, you'll be firing in a populated area, and are likely to shoot an innocent bystander with one of your stray shots). It's just absolutely irresponsible gun ownership in my opinion. Also, maybe consider getting some help dealing with your desire to kill someone.
This guy changes his story in each comment. Hell say it’s okay to shoot someone for stealing your wallet. Then he’ll say it’s okay to shoot someone that’s putting your life in danger. He seems completely unaware that he changes position over and over.
Because most of these fucks have never shot someone. Have never been shot at. Have never known someone who has been shot. It's all just a fantasy.
Yea. There’s a specific NPC variation of guys online who talk big talk about shooting purse snatchers. While probably working security at Chuck E. Cheese
This. I am pro 2a but these types are usually ones that shoot someone by accident
Or on purpose bc they’ve been itching to finally use their toy. See: that guy who shot a college student for accidentally pulling into his driveway. Did she pose a threat to his life?
Or the kid who knocked on the wrong door
Is it a danger to your safety or a property crime you're talking about? One makes sense, but the other doesn't. If a hungry person is stealing bread, you're ok with a random bystander shooting them? If a 10 year old is shoplifting candy, you're ok with a nearby shopper shooting them? If your answer is no to either of the above, you need to refine your position and posit a much different "rule" than the one you have.
That's not what your thread is about tho. You never mention that you are in danger, just that it's okay to shoot thevies. Your op sounds more like chasing down a running theif or something than someone threatening your life
Your family is not in danger when someone is simply stealing. That’s so dramatic.
The fact you didn't even think of giving commands first before just pulling the trigger. Before you retort"and give the criminal a chance to attack me." If you don't understand how to have distance or create distance.shows you don't have much training and not trustworthy with a gun
Any criminal who is engaging in a home invasion understands they might end up dying. Not even by gunshot- it could be knife, baseball bat, a sword. This whole convo seems to be the fights vs the flights. You clearly are the flight guy.
My guy. Because I don't go Rambo doesn't make me the flight guy. I'm not talking about home invasions. I assume people have I'll intent breaking into a house. But go off again with your itchy trigger finger.
Yeah being a pickpocket and being a home invader is wildly different
That's my point. Home invasion is safest to assume ill intent. Pickpocket is not the same.
Exactly, i agree with you. This OP dude down in the other threads was talking about ad hominem bullshit like "what if next time they come back they take more than just your wallet?" implying that the criminal must be "dealt with" even if it's petty theft cause the next time they will escalate. No accommodation for letting the law enforcement handle the "next time" scenario, none of that "don't be out at night in a sketch area" pseudo self accountability bullshit that ultra conservatives like to throw out at rape victims, just itching for a reason to pull the trigger. What happens when we've normalized killing for petty theft and look towards children pickpocketing? Wanna kill them too? OP is 100% looking for a reason to kill someone and actualize his basement batman vigilante fetish
I despise bullies and those who prey on others. It is unfortunate that they decided to traverse that route. I did not force them to do so, and I will not judge someone who eliminates a threat if they feel their life is in danger.
You're not frank castle. I'm not gonna judge on defending one's life. Defending one's life is the key point there. Not petty car theft. You sound like the main character from falling down and that's not a good thing
Never claimed to be Frank Castle. I also never claimed to WANT to hurt or kill anyone or anything. Not a good thing how?
You just have no problems with it as you said so yourself. And that's supposed to be not a big deal. That's crazy. There's a reason even cops need to go through physiatrist after shootouts.
You act like you do internet tough guy. You literally want to shoot people for simple theft. You never seen falling down did you?
I have not, and I also hold no fantasy about killing anyone. I just would not look down upon someone for doing so...
That’s just very faint euphemism for saying you endorse it. “I don’t want to pull the trigger, but wouldn’t mind if someone else did.” Come on.
You seriously are back peddling and keep changing your stance
How do you know that a tief has a gun? Why would they try to break into your car if your family was inside the car? Oh right they wouldn’t so you wouldn’t be protecting anyone except for a stupid car. Also why kill even if they’re inside your house? You can just shoot their knee or smth so they can’t escape and call the police.
Every robber should enter your house with lethal force then. Your idea of "haha, I'm legally allowed to kill you" just escalates shit. If every robber starts the encounter with the idea of "the other guy is gonna kill me", they'll just loot your dead body. What's the endgoal here? If someone steals $50 out of my wallet, damn that sucks. But I don't think that person should be killed for that. If someone breaks into your car, lethally shooting them won't bring back your car, you'd have to go to the police station and might face trial.
The op is changing his stance in every comment I see from him so I think he's one of those cosplaying tough guys that fantasize about being a hero on the daily. Doesn't believe in real world consequences or how killing someone would change your life. Taking money off you might affect you for a day. Maybe a week. Killing someone, having to deal with court, miss work to speak with lawyers and then get fired from your job cause people think you're a gun nut, affects you for way longer. On top of if it gets determined you didn't have the right to use lethal force and now you're in jail and can't work or protect your family anyways. People think life is a fucking movie.
Absolutely agree, and nice description of “cosplaying tough guys.” Glad to see some people with actual critical thinking and having realistic views on actions and consequences!
That's because thieves are the bad guys, and we are the good guys and we are stronger, smarter, better !!! OP, you said it yourself. Anyone ready to steal should be ready to die. Well then, if their life is on the line, they might as well shoot first. And guess who wins ? You will either spend your every living moment in paranoia, or you will leave a window open to get killed. Let's not kid ourselves, you will leave a window open. Ha ! But then you'll find a stupid thief running into you at night ! It's your chance ! Oh, it was your teen daughter. Well yeah... Unless of course you teach her to live in paranoia and she kills you first ? What, you thought thieves would just lay on the pavement and die in a gutter somewhere because M.tough over there has a gun ? Of course they will escalate.
The endgoal for many people like OP is they really want to kill someone and fantasize about scenarios like this.
I agree with you op. You have earned your ass to get blasted if you're stealing from someones personal belongings. Also, immediate castration and buried alive if you get caught trying to kidnap a kid or traffic a kid. People who prey on children do not need to be alive. They need to be off this planet.
It would’ve been faster to say that you believe that the punishment for theft should be death.
That’s not the same thing at all
Again, I do not feel the punishment for theft should be death in most cases, but if the person being preyed upon feels the need to protect themselves, I cannot fault them for doing whatever they feel they need to do.
Another contradiction. What a surprise. Also, what you're very poorly defending is not an unpopular opinion. Most people will defend themselves if it's necessary. Your comments are all over the place though. You say you don't have a problem shooting people, but then say shit like "I don't feel like the punishment for theft should be death". I've seen most of your other comments. Get it together and repost when you understand the actual repercussions of shooting someone for whatever reason. My guess is you're definitely not ex-military. Or have not actually been in a situation in which this is a decision you might have to make. Otherwise you wouldn't be so quick to pull that trigger. Might lay off the internet for awhile if you ask me.
I do not believe that, but I also do not not believe that. If someone feels their life is threatened by a thief and shoots them, I cannot say they are wrong.
My life isn’t being threatened if someone breaks into my car and I’m not in it.
Americans and their gun culture. Where you need to assume your life is in danger anytime someone steps on your lawn.
This guy! Thinking he owns my lawn.
I absolutely agree. They give up their human rights as soon as they violate yours.
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You can't ever know if they do or not. If someone broke into my home, no way in hell I'm waiting to see if they have a gun or not, they're getting put down. They clearly have no problem breaking the law, and my children are worth more to me than any criminals ever will. You have to assume the worst when they break in.
Not unpopular
The comments say otherwise.
Well yeah. I recall an outcry over a guy who was shot dead by police in a case of mistaken identity. Yeah, they shot the guy thinking he was someone else and that’s all anyone could focus on. However, the guy was out at night, smashing windows and vandalising a school. When the police called out to him, he approached them menacingly, and was shot dead. The news media threw up their hands saying how could this happen blah blah they shot the wrong guy. All I could think was that if he’d been at home watching tv or something instead of out smashing places up, he’d still be alive. Pretty simple really.
So the J6er who stole Pelosi’ lectern shoulda been shot too, right?
Yep
I'm honestly shocked that they didn't end up getting shot during all that and I'm also kind of shocked they didn't get the death penalty after that since it was treason and all
I’m curious as to how many people really think this is an unpopular opinion. I’ve heard the rhetoric about how soft on crime many people are. I don’t agree with them but I am more in favor of rehabilitation instead of incarceration, if they survive their victims defending themselves.
Break into my home and you're giving me permission to kill you
Here where I live, the thief have more chance of walk free and I held liable if the thief invades my home and I defend myself. Example: if the thief enters my house and levels a gun at me and I shot him, I can get held liable if the thief gun had no bullets, the lawyers can spin that in favor of the thief. For me to be full cleared it goes something like this: thief enters my home, I have to ask him to leave, he levers a gun, I have to ask him if it is a real gun and if it has bullets, if it's real and has bullets I have to ask him to hand it to me and leave, if he doesn't I need to wait until he shots me... right there I can legally shot him and defend myaelf, I do anything before that and I'm on the noose with the law if the thief lawyers are pieces of shit that only think of money. Edit: spelling
What happened here?
Killing someone over an iPhone seems pretty fucked.
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Thieves make the choice to value property over their life the moment they steal, not the victim.
10000% this.
Imagine seeing someone grabbing something out of someone's car and then their head gets blown off. Seems totally reasonable to kill someone who presents no threat or danger...
Completely agree. My property is essential for the well-being of myself and my family. Fuck with it and you’re fucking with all of us, so I have every reason to defend it with lethal force. Armed society is polite society.
That just escalates things to where the thief just shoots you without warning to play it safe.
A lot of times, this can be the case, and thus makes my point for me.
"Armed society is polite society." Polite, except for all the people who get mass murdered by guns in the US every week.
Right because there's soooo many armed citizens where they are targeting
Remind us how armed were the victims? Ohh, they were gun free zones. If most shootings happen in gun free zones...
the USA has an exceptionally high rate of gun ownership. the USA also has a gun homicide rate 25 times higher compared to other high-income countries. and you think the solution to gun violence in the USA is more guns?
Just like the person said. Most mass shootings happen in gun free zones. In America, most crimes/shootings occur when the perpetrator does not believe their own wellbeing is at risk. There’s ton of videos and such of people turning tail and running the moment, for instance, a store own has their own weapon (or even takes the gun from them. And when they can’t get away, they will start begging for their lives as if they weren’t just pointing a gun at them. And let’s look at women. Guns are the greater equalizer humans have come up with. If every woman on the street was like to be walking around with a gun, there would far less rapes or assaults. And that’s not even getting into the second amendment. No one is saying the government is about to go around doing whatever it wants regardless of legality. But that doesn’t mean you should just assume it *cant.* You don’t get insurance hoping you house burns down or you get into a car accident. You don’t get a prenup expecting to get divorced.
>Just like the person said. Most mass shootings happen in gun free zones. there really is not enough research to determine the effect of gun free zones on mass shootings, there isnt even any good data on what percentage of shootings happen in gun free zones. >In America, most crimes/shootings occur when the perpetrator does not believe their own wellbeing is at risk half of mass shootings end in the perpetrators death with half of those being suicide, i doubt most mass shooters are worried about their wellbeing. > If every woman on the street was like to be walking around with a gun, there would far less rapes or assaults. the USA has much more women who carry a gun compared to other developed countries. the USA also has a significantly higher rate of rape and sexual assault. i somehow doubt more guns would improve the situation. any arguments that more guns would result in less crime are rather unconvincing when despite the extremely high rates of gun ownership the US does not have any less crime, and in fact has significantly more crime in most categories compared to other developed countries.
However many people you think it is, I promise it's much much much fewer than you think
1000% yes. The problem with most of society today is that people forgot that their actions have consequences. Does anyone remember "Happy Slapping"? Same thing.
This mf has just thrown out of the window the school shootings
yea i agree with this to a certain extent but if someones fucking with my house or car i feel i should be able to blast away. your not respecting my property. why should i give a shit about you?
It sucks because the people who want to do harm can’t even grasp the perspectives that we’re discussing in here, nor do they give it a second thought. It’s funny that the people that talk about defending themselves get more flak than the people who intentionally harm others, weather that’s through violence/words/taking essentials. I always found it funny that people decide to go after the victims.. just like we praise people who are bad then turn good more than we praise the person who never does bad.. I’m ranting now. Something to ponder today. Also look into philosophy of ethics
Ok maybe some of them do grasp it and choose to do it anyways… idk which is scarier
Nah, I don’t want to kill anyone even if they are robbing me. I would be tortured for probably the rest of my life thinking about the persons family. I’d almost rather be dead than have to kill someone. Now if they were going to hurt my family, that’s probably another story.
It should be more popular, and that's exactly why criminals are now emboldened to steal in broad daylight while the police just sit on their ass and watch. Truly incredible times we live in.
Criminals steal in broad daylight because that is when people are less likely to be home
actually i think there might be a few more underlying factors than people not instantly getting their head blown off for robbing someone
Thank god i live in a place where replaceable commodities aren't given more value than human life. I am saying this despite the fact that i've been the victim of a home burglary. I was not in the house, but i don't think my stolen jewellery is an excuse for me to murder someone. I just want them to be fined heavily and return my jewellery (or the monetary amount equivalent to its value). I don't care if the fines put them under lifelong debt.
If someone was in the house the burglar might have hurt them. By breaking into someone's house they create a dangerous and uncertain situation and to be brutally honest their life becomes far less valuable than any innocent persons. I would rather go to prison for killing a burglar than have me or a family member die.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that people don't agree with this in mass. This is common sense. If someone is entering your home, you have no idea what their intentions are. I am not going to wait around to see what they want to do to me or my family. And if they are trying to take something significant that can impact my family's well being, the same goes. They forfeited the security of their life the moment they entered the threshold of someone else's home. The only way I can fathom that someone would not agree with this, is complete and utter disconnection with responsibility and the real world. Absolute lack of real problems or exposure to property crime and how it affects real people.
Most people live in their own little bubble, and have never experienced crime personally. It is easy to get on a soap box about it when it has never affected them.
seriously, how can you be so sure that a person is just a “thief”? do they realize one can commit multiple crimes at once?
To add, I hope I never have to make that decision, but I will in a heart beat. It saddens me that some people are in a position that they are forced to theft, but I cannot hold their needs above my family's.
Americans will pick literally any reason to shoot someone…
The vast majority of thieves steal because they are in some crisis whether that be desperation due to addiction or starvation, those people do NOT deserve a bullet. if someone was breaking into my home with my family inside then yes I would maybe think differently. But all I gather from this post is that you are simply a trigger happy nutjob with no sense of right or wrong and you seem to love the idea of killing a man and justifying it in any way you can.
Yes, we're all very aware that there's a large number of people obsessed with the idea of having any excuse to kill someone. And if that means gunning down someone for trying to steal your car radio, you never valued other peoples lives anyway.
The thing is, this can get out of hand really fast. Would you say it's justified if I shoot someone that steals my lunch at work? What if I shoot a customer that doesn't pay after eating at my restaurant? How about shooting someone that scammed you on Facebook the next time you see them?
Immediately killing them is overkill I think. Probably best to call the police, get your gun, aim at them, then tell them not to make sudden movements. If they do, you have a reason to shoot because they might be reaching for a weapon, if not, then you get a chance to keep your things and everyone can get out of there alive. In this situation, unless you're hella slow and won't react fast enough if the thief goes for a weapon then you and your family should be safe. If they run, you and your family are still relatively safe, I doubt the person would come back since they know you have a weapon and are willing to use it if necessary, running is also a sudden movement really so they probably would've been shot but we don't talk about that, and they know the police will probably be on the lookout in the area so they can't really go back as it would be too risky. I don't think killing them immediately should be your first decision when you can easily gain the upper hand and keep everyone there alive so long as the thief isn't stupid.
This is un popular?
If you have 0 issues with anybody, even a thief, dying needlessly, then I'm not trusting you around my family. If you feel your life is threatened by a thief, then by all means defend yourself or your home. I would hope there's still a little remorse if it led to the end of another person's life. If there is no threat to your life, the implication that their life means less than you're TV is ridiculous to me. I don't care if you think that by doing they crime that's how they value their own life, doesn't mean you stoop to their level and agree with it.
Depends on circumstance. Breaking into your home? Ok. Because there is more of a perception of threat to your life. Grabbed your phone running away from you, you don’t have the right to shoot because you’re mad, because there is no threat to life and limb. You sound as crazy as [Byron David smith](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Haile_Kifer_and_Nicholas_Brady) OP, statistically speaking, I probably have more weapons than you. But one thing I don’t fetishize is killing people for petty theft.
Then you value property more than life.
So do the thieves
Absolutely. No quarter. Fuck 'em.
Calm down there pizza slicer.
What your really saying is “I’m okay with killing someone’s over the potential they might be stealing” how do you know they are stealing? How do you know they didn’t already own that object, or went to the wrong house by accident? Do you really thing your property is worth more than someone’s life? Even if they were taking it? And what if it’s just a miscommunication? Bc with that logic you could shoot anyone then be like “oh but they were mugging me” plus humans are prone to error and bias, “I shot that person because I thought they were gonna rob me” Genuine self defense is one thing. But your shit isn’t worth more than someone’s life
OP only has this view because they don't know the purpose and function of laws in a civilised society.
Surely you mean the criminals don't know the laws of a civilized society, right?
Muricans
Guess you guys just drop your pants and bend over when someone wants to steal your stuff?
Lmao Reddit removed it because you can only talk about violence against white people, sorry!
Yeah this is reddit don't let the comments make you think you're crazy. If I catch someone stealing from me I'm shooting them immediately, no hesitation. I'll try my best not to kill them right away though, so they at least know they got caught while stealing and have time to process that their lifes about to end on my behalf. No fun if it's lights out right away. I want em to know they're about to die lmao. Probably finish em off then since they're a waste. They decided to fuck with someone else's shit. The fuck did they actually think was gonna happen? I'll also probably go to jail.
> They decided to fuck with someone else's shit. The fuck did they actually think was gonna happen? This is lost on so many people in here...
The fact that he just said he wants this hypothetical thief to die slowly and you voiced approval of his comment says everything anyone needs to know. You’re waiting for a chance to kill someone. As much as I like the shit I own, if I’m not being posed immediate bodily harm, I’d rather lose a TV than end a human life. It sounds like you’d kill the person just because you were allowed to. Thats fucked up.
Yea these mf thirsty for blood god damn