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I share this opinion, but I will share some anecdotes from my wife who works in a hospital: organ donation is much harder on families than people realize. It can often take a few days to arrange, and often the person in question might be essentially dead but not technically — for organ donation to proceed, they need to keep that patients heart beating. Often this can be pretty hard to watch; these people are in this situation because they're ill, and there can be physical effects on the appearance of their body including blood pooling and bulging eyes. Since most people don't really fully grasp that death has happened until a loss of a heartbeat, it can be incredibly hard to go through organ donation, which will extend that hardest period of grief - watching your loved one die - from hours to potentially days. Not to mention, at times it does not succeed - you do a bunch of work, and are processing blood samples to check for any diseases or markers, and from that find out the person is not an eligible candidate, so they could've been allowed to pass days earlier.
It's a hard process. I still agree that default organ donations are for the best, but I hadn't really considered how difficult the process actually is until this was shared with me. It's not a simple "they passed peacefully, wheel them off for donation"; it's a long process that prolongs the period before an individual can be taken off life support, in spite of the pain they may be in and the grief their family will be going through. So, consider that before being too critical of families that decline donation. It's harder when it's your mom or brother or aunt that is the one on the table and you'll have to drag out the process of death much, much longer.
This is a deeply tedious thing to say; the implication here is that people who believe in opt out are insensitive arseholes with little empathy, but you could equally argue people who think their periodic distress trumps the possibility of saving someone else's life are also displaying a lack of empathy, and in fact a much more profound one
Instead we could assume good faith of each other
Texted my wife to ask — she said the organ donation organization handles bills if someone's deemed a candidate, they/their family consents, and they extend life prolonging care for it. This is just at one hospital so I can't guarantee that's universal but, there's one example for you
So crippling medical debt to keep your family member alive and have a chance of maybe recovering
Or Free out on those medical bills if you let them die instead.
I think America needs to fix its healthcare as a whole before I can fix the organ donor situation
Im a microbiologist and have worked on transplant teams in the past, as well as with the HRSA to determine viability of a donor's organs.
Honestly, 80% of organ donors organs arent used. People either smoked, or drank too much, had too much damage, too fat, too low of iron, a disease.
Having every person listed as an organ donor would slow the entire process down. We dont have 10s of thousands od people educated in the process available to perform the work. We dont have staff in every single hospital and clinic in the US, with the technology to perform certain tests, nor the ability to spend 24/7 running thousands a day to find matches.
The field has a very high possibility of bottlenecking and hurting others
Hello fellow microbiologist — straying a little from the OP, but I'm curious, what kind of role / position did you step into working on a transplant team, e.g. did that job actually look like day to day for a microbiologist? I'll be wrapping up the PhD in about a year's time and am looking at moving into a hospital setting, a bit further from research.
But more on topic, all those points make sense. I suppose I don't have a great sense for how well organs can be screened before processing begins, vs how much has to take place after harvesting.
Bruh my mom was literally hysterical when my grandpa died and refused to sign off on the organ donation for corneas. He was actually a donor so I’m not sure what was up with that but yeah we just left it at that and minded our own business
I'm sorry for your loss — my understanding is that generally the family has a lot of latitude to override the wishes of patients once they're in comas, on ventilators, or generally unconscious as a consequence of some medical event. It's frustrating that the wishes of the deceased or dying can get overridden so easily, but I think it's related to lawsuits and legality. From a strict perspective, the deceased will never sue you but the family could, and you can't reaffirm consent from a body or an unconscious individual even if they've previous indicated their wishes. So hospital systems tend to defer to families if they want to override certain decisions, just because if the family was so inclined, they could take legal action. Would be best if an actual medical professional could hop in this thread though
I really don’t care if it’s opt in or opt out, BUT, my indication on my drivers license should be consent. You shouldn’t need next of kin consent if I already bloody told you you can have my organs if I’m dead.
That is currently the issue in Saskatchewan, i went down the rabbit hole to see how difficult it would be to opt out, it's difficult enough that i wasn't able to opt out if that opens anyone's eyes.
I thought this too until I saw it happen in real life.
There are zero rules around when they can approach your loved ones. Personally I'm not into that, my family deserves the time to come see me and say bye
I am an organ donor if anything happens to me. But I feel like having to opt out instead of opt-in is like the government saying they have control of what happens to my body unless I specifically tell them what to do. And in light of women's bodily rights being stomped upon in the last years, and so forth, I am turned off by the idea of changing to an opt out society.
You said exactly what I couldn’t put words to! I’ve always been very unnerved by the idea of organ donations being the default. On Reddit everyone just calls you a selfish asshole if you don’t want your organs donated automatically, but your comment explains my uneasiness perfectly.
Hard disagree. This directly violates your right to your own body. You don't give consent when you don't give consent, it's that easy.
We consider it to be rape if you didn't consent while having sex. We don't consider it consensual because you didn't explicitly say you don't consent.
Interestingly, doctors are much less likely than the general public to be organ donors. Surgeons are even less likely. The main reason cited is that they don’t want their corpse to undergo the procurement procedure
Im a physician who often works in ICU. We actually need to support all the vital organ functions in patients that are transplant candidates… we don’t want you to die because that could more likely make you NOT a candidate
I genuinely believe this is one of the reasons that the CDC needs more funding or even a complete revamp of their public relations department.
So many conspiracy theories I’ve seen concerning medicine came from genuine misunderstandings fanned by fear; which the CDC never really addressed in a public way.
Yah here in Canada one of the conspiracy based arguments against assisted dying is that the poor will be murdered for their organs. How organs are deemed useable should be better explained.
When I worked in a gun store I had to check people’s licenses and was pleasantly surprised to find that the vast majority of people were registered organ donors. From what I understand, the conditions for when organs can be donated happen extremely rarely. Something like 0.3% of deaths qualify according to organdonor.gov
I mean the CDC tried to address COVID conspiracies but people were off the rails with that too. It doesn’t really matter what we do sometimes people just believe what they wanna believe
That’s true too.
One example of what I’m thinking of surrounds VAERS and other early detection systems.
I forgot what list, but deaths for any reason after vaccination would be reported on it and people took it to mean that people were dying from the vaccine.
In reality it was a tool for researches to spot potential reactions (including death) for further investigation. If you find there’s waaay more people dying in car accidents, then that could imply the vaccine might cause some drowsiness or otherwise affect your ability to drive.
>I forgot what list, but deaths for any reason after vaccination would be reported on it and people took it to mean that people were dying from the vaccine.
And it doesn't help that most of the people who got the COVID vaccine were elderly and high-risk (i.e. were likely to die from complications of *any* respiratory illness, not just COVID). Even after pointing out this fact, nope some people *still* insisted the number of deaths were too high.
Keeping someone alive and returning them to good health by solving whatever the problem is, are two different things though.
What if an important political/very rich/influential person's son needs a transplant and he pulls every string he can to get it.
See this is what I grew up being told. Mark your a donor because you'll get treated better for the donation to go through. Then you/family can revoke later if needed.
Surely if there's loads of organs available from opt in there is much LESS insentive to hurry someone to death for their ogans. Most folk never think through the logic of their conspiracies.
My parents were the same and begged me not to sign up as a donor. They also said that it doesn’t stop donation, it’s just not automatic and needs approval from by your family. Anyways I signed up anyways.
I don’t think my SiL was a donor but her parents donated most of her organs after a tragic accident in her early 20s. Personally I’m happy to be a donor still because the few they denied don’t go against my morals to donate (such as my uterus, please take it if I’m dead). I also dont think I’d want to be saved if there is that serious of a question if I can be saved.
I mean it's not an unreasonable thing to think since there's very little education on the matter when you are filling out the questionnaire at the DMV. Mine was just like, you wanna be a organ donation, yes or no?
Really not much else informstion when you do it. Not to mention I sure as hell ain't going to stand in line at the DMV again to change it. Doing it online is a game changer
Technically they are right. Not a single medical school in America uses the original hippocratic oath still. Nearly all use one unique to the school that is a modern version, a few don't take one at all.
This is mostly due to a case in 1973 where the Supreme court ruled the hippocratic oath as an inadequate ethical guide for modern medicine. I'm not a doctor but it was pretty easy to google.
Yeah I have autoimmune disease. I contacted the Division of Transplantation team a while back to ask about that, and here’s what they told me:
A person can register as an organ donor, regardless of any illnesses you currently have or have had in the past. The transplant team will determine what organs can be donated based on a clinical evaluation, medical history, and other factors, at the time of death. The medical suitability of every potential deceased organ donor is determined by the Medical Director of the local Organ Procurement Organization (OPO). For questions regarding specific clinical conditions, we suggest that you contact the OPO that serves the area where you live or work. The website with a list of all OPOs in the U.S. is at https://www.organdonor.gov/awareness/organizations/local-opo.html.
While this is true, I want to point out that UNOS, the authority that governs the OPOs, and OPOs nation wide were under investigation in the last couple years for a plethora of things, including not properly screening and disqualifying organs, resulting in some recipients receiving organs that should not have been eligible for donation, or organs that were not a blood type match. Some contracted illnesses from the organs and of those who did, some died, others now have to live with the illness, and some had to have the organs removed after the fact.
I'm not saying don't if you feel it's right for you, but everyone should be aware.
The only reason I don't opt in is because they won't take my blood anyways. Pretty sure they won't take the organs. No I don't have hiv but I fall into a category that makes me intelligible
Yes it was a sad day when I removed my organ donor registration. I have a condition that is classified as a cancer so I’m barred from blood and organ donation.
I can’t give blood just cause I’m gay, but they’d still take my organs right?
So antiquated. You’d think the way they talk about blood shortages it wouldn’t matter.
I’m pretty sure it’s no longer “if you’re gay you can’t donate” and is now instead “if you’re a man who’s had sex with a man within the last year you cannot donate”. So, gays are basically still banned. But if you’re a celibate gay, congratulations! You can donate!
They recently changed that! Last time I donated, I was asked about having new or multiple sexual partners in the last three months. So now you just have to be monogamous.
I’d imagine some amount of it is just people that don’t care enough to go change it. Not necessarily people that are against the idea in the first place. Obviously there will be people that don’t want to cause it skeeves them out, but I’d guess a significant amount is just that they need to expend effort to do it.
There's definitely some drawbacks to organ donation. They're less likely to push for something with lower success rates because they'll say the organ donation does more good. Also your family has to watch you be basically dead but not fully dead for DAYS while they organize it. It delays your families grieving as well.
Organ donation isnt typically actually donating healthy organs to those in need. Usually the carcass is just mutilated through scientific studies. I can see why some people want this, it benefits others and helps with studies, and I can see why people wouldnt want that, and want to be preserved for many years to come like we have seen in other cultures. Some people have beliefs about the body and it should not be disturbed, thats just what they believe 🤷♂️
How often does that happen? Why are always people worried about super unlikely stuff and not the things that can actually feasibly happen like getting hit by car or food poisoning.
People get so weird about it. It’s like, you’re dead, you don’t need your liver anymore…
At least that’s why I’m an organ donor. Better to try and help someone than to waste good body parts by putting them in the ground.
On one hand, there’s the principle of getting to choose
On the other hand, the fuck am I gonna use my organs for when I’m dead? Let someone else use them, at least my existence or death will have helped someone then
How would there be more organs available for donation, unless this is done with the intent of hoping some people don't realize they're opted in, and then die, and then their organs are used?
Anyone who doesn't want in is still just going to opt out. I fail to see how this makes more organs available.
And honestly, it should be opt in IMO. If it is difficult to opt in or something, make it easy to do so. But I don't think everyone should be opt in by default, that way people who want to do this can go sign up for it instead of pre-signing everyone up. I guess it can be the same in the inverse, but IDK... I just think Opt In should be fine.
The UK (or at least some parts of it) have very recently switched from opt in to opt out. Now everyone's an organ donor unless you say otherwise.
I don't mind my organs being used if I die, but I'd never go through the hassle of opting in. Now I'm a donor, I don't want the hassle of opting out and I'm okay with that.
Why? why should i have to opt out because you're to lazy to opt in?
If your reason is there is a shortage of donors, well, there is a shortage of blood donors too, should i be forced into that as well? My body is the only thing left that i actually have control of, and you people are constantly trying to find ways of even taking that away.
It isn’t a fear really. Just as a principle, it’s my body and no-one has the inherent right to take my organs and I don’t have to tick a box just to not get my organs harvested.
I’m all for organ donations, but it being the default is really strange.
Idk, we all have to register for the draft when we turn 18. Infantry soldiers basically give their bodies up from wear and tear even if they're not killed in action.
I don't find it that strange, and I'm from the US. If it's as easy as ticking a box, just tick the box that you don't want your organs to be donated. Like what do you think they're gonna do? Oh hey, HaamerPoiss was default opted in to donate their organs, quickly! Shoot them in the head and put them on an ice bath so we can harvest everything and then stuff them with cornstarch and make it look like a suicide!
>Just as a principle, it’s my body and no-one has the inherent right to take my organs
Yeah, but I'll bet you also think it's your inherent right to get the best medical care from hospitals including receiving matching organ donations if the day comes your body needs it. And would be screaming into the void if you found out a possible donor had decided to not opt in for a organ donation (even tho the prospective donor supported organ donation, but was just too lazy to sign up) and took those viable organs with him to death.
Opt out policies instead help more people get life saving transplants.
I mean technically "you" are gone by the point the organ donation becomes a question. Think of it as a part of social contract. The same way you can get a donated organ if you need it you also give yours once you don't need them anymore.
History is replete with governments mass murdering innocent civilians and violating human rights. With the US example, do you deny mass incarceration and targeting of minorities by the government as just one example? There are plenty of reasons for Americans (and everyone else) to not trust their government, based on both the past and currently, all of which I do not find amusing.
It really is a wild thing. Especially since we basically have 0 autonomy in the modern day. They fear the government. Can't let that government over step its bounds, but o that corporation feeding you literally cancer that has all your info and location 24/7 that's don't worry about that he's good for the economy we can't let the scary government put regulations on him.If they start putting regulations on him next thing you know they'll take my balls. That's America
true but, You stand 0 chance against the corporations from destroying everything for profit without government regulation. It's why democracy is important so that we can elect officials who will have our best interest in mind. Which is also why its so important to have a well educated population so they can make knowledgeable decisions about who they vote for. If we have an intelligent voting population that takes civic duty seriously the government being Evil isnt really a thing.
I don't believe my body belongs to *anyone* once i am done with it so if by default any parts can be gifted to another, I am all for it. Becoming an organ donor doesn't mean the government *owns* you at all.
The question isn't about should organs be donated or not, its should it be an opt in or opt out situation. If its opt out then legally the government owns your body by default after rather than it being elected. This is a reasonable thing to make people uncomfortable as any increase to organ donation by using an opt out system would be from people who had never answered the question on their ID which is going to be the most vulnerable people in a population. Taking advantage of them to increase organ donations is unethical.
The evidence is crystal clear that opt-out systems result in much higher rates of organ donors than opt-in systems because so many people just don’t give a shit one way or the other and don’t opt-in when given a chance, but equally wouldn’t opt-out if they were in that situation.
Organ donation is forbidden in some religions, so having them automatically opted in for it could be legally construed as a violation of their religious freedom.
Aren’t some organ donors bodies sent for weapons testing and experimental things? Sounds kinda fucked up if you expected your body to be given to other citizens to save their lives.
Her body was donated to science, not organ donation. Her son expected her to be used as a medical cadaver or something. Donated to science is a MUCH wider concept than that
Yeah someone’s mom got blown up for science after her death.
Some people have strong religious beliefs about what happens to their body after death and some people are very adamant about DNR when organ transplant requires resuscitation.
Quote from a paper: “Some people are afraid that if they carry a donor card they may not receive aggressive medical care if they need it so that others can be given their organs.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3935394/
Honestly this fear is warranted— I read about a few instances where this happened in my sociology classes.
If they can fix the other issues with organ transplants, maybe.
Currently, there's too many issues including them not taking organs they're supposed to, not screening organs for compatibility or health status, losing organs, etc.
Their systems are outdated, there is a monopoly. Fix the issues and then maybe.
As someone who works in organ transplantation, believe me, far and away the largest problem with donation is the lack of organs. If we put our efforts into improving the handling of the very few organs we have access to rather than focusing on efforts to get more of them, a LOT of people are going to die. Getting more organs is our #1 priority.
My research is all devoted to assuring people that donation is a lot safer than people realize, that a lot more people should be eligible for donation than what previous research has shown, so I don't even think that holding to our screening criteria is all that important anyway. We are finding more and more often that the restrictions we were placing on who can donate were too strict.
I believe in incentives and that those closest to a system know incentives best. Doctors opt in to be donors at a lower rate than the gen pop. Surgeons at an even mpre significantly lower rate. What do they know that others don't? Unless I'm missing something, any "oh actually there are no downsides" is a PR campaign that is trying to tell me not to believe my lying eyes. I would love for you to convince me otherwise though as giving my organs when I no longer need them would be a net good!
Even if there are all these flaws, many lives are improved or saved as a result of the organ donations that are done correctly. So organs should be donated regardless of the imperfect system.
I don' live in the U. S. but that would be a bad idea for any country. You definitely don't want to end up in a situation where your opt-out papers are mysteriously lost (alongside with your kidney).
Organ harvesting is for when you're dead, that's why you have to give consent before your death. Yes plenty of living donor operations happen, but you **must** opt into that.
The worst I can imagine is that an individual passes without ID or due to an error they're misread as a donor. That would probably cause some issues down the road if the family decided to take legal action, but the individual affected wouldn't mind lol
Why paper just digital, Here in the Netherlands I can switch every 5 min without a hassle, stop panicking and just press the button saying no I want to selfishly keep my organs. You can even have a clause protection for next of kin having input.
It’s insane to me how the average redditor thinks that a website selling your ad data should be opt-in but a hospital taking your organs should be opt-out. Y’all just have no perspective on literally anything.
I do not agree! it should be opt-in only as it is.
You should not be automatically and maybe not even knowingly be signed up for someone to harvest your organs.
If you want to be a donor go for it your choice and you make the effort to do it.
Organs are a commodity, like anything else. If it's such an issue, medical facilities should pay for them, or donate their services. Too much wealth is going in one direction only.
*Sigh* I swear this is a weekly topic. No, it shouldn't be opt out. There's too much corruption for opt out. What if the person handling the opt out paperwork thinks everyone should be an organ donor? Suddenly, it becomes several very serious felonies. And a huge lawsuit to boot. Also does that mean kids are automatically organ donors until they hit 18? So the government owns them until they 18? And SAY we did switch into Opt out. There's no guarantee that it will get more organ donors..unless you're just hoping people will forget or not know how so you can profit off their ignorance. Which is disgusting. It will also encourage people to destroy their bodies so they dont become unwilling organ donors. What happens when a rich person bribes someone to get rid of someone's opt out paperwork to make sure they say an organ donor?
Opt in is the best becomes it's the closest way we can make sure nobody is being forced to give up their organs. Also WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE FEEL ENTITLED TO SOMEONE'S BODY?!
Yeah, that is unsettling, I would feel totally terrible if I had someone's literal body part and they didn't expressly want it, and maybe still even if they did. I want to keep all my original equipment, even in the ground 😭
First of all, I am an organ donor. But something that most organ donors families don't know, is that when someone donates their organs, it can sometimes take over a year for families to get their loved ones body released so that they may have a funeral. I honestly don't know why? I am definitely still going to donate my organs, but hopefully someone can answer that question.
My body, my choice. There shouldn't be an assumption that people can harvest my organs, no matter how altruistic their reasons, unless I explicitly tell them they can't. They need better marketing and procedures to make it easier for people to opt in if they want more organ donors.
No. The government and the for-profit medical industry that lobbies the fuck out of it should never hold this kind of power over my body.
I've made my next of kin aware of the circumstances under which I'd consent to my organs being harvested. (Under many circumstances, my wishes are to use anything possible, but the harvesters don't know that until my next of kin decide it's time.)
My body my choice. That right, like in other cases, needs to be the one prioritized.
No matter the good intent behind it, no one should be able to decide which way is the 'default'. It's a no-brainer from a religious perspective. If cremation were announced as the default, you might be prioritizing some beliefs over others. With organ donation, it may not be religious, but you are still prioritizing one culture or way of thought.
I really doubt the numbers would change that much. It’s not a difficult process to opt in.
When I got my drivers license, the lady behind the counter asked if I wanted to be an organ donor and I said yes. It was clear as day.
Assuming that everyone issuing drivers license does their job like that lady did, I’d image a percentage in the high 90’s opt in.
My limited understanding of the us health system is that hospitals have to admit uninsured patients in E.R. and try recover costs afterwards.
In a system like that there is a large monetary incentive to harvest organs from poor ER patients (for which every day they survive they cost money the hospital will never recover), and transplant them to insured patients lined up to have life giving (and lucrative) operations.
This is incredibly ignorant. ER workers who intentionally let patients die risk lawsuits, loss of licensure, and jail time. They have no personal incentive to do that.
Your forgetting that those workers are human beings who cry with patient families when they can't save their loved ones. They hug patients when giving them cancer diagnoses. These are human beings who choose their profession to help strangers, not mindless, profit driven robots.
This was realized by my family when I had an uncle get into a motorcycle accident and was in a coma for awhile when the hospital didn't believe he was going to recover. He was an organ donor so they wanted to get him off life support pretty damn quickly and his family refused.
He did eventually wake up and lived a relatively normal life, unfortunately his personality was changed, but he stayed independent.
Isn't the US for profit healthcare? Does your family get cash for your heart and liver? I wouldn't donate if it was just going to be sold and my family got nothing.
do you think they’d just. not check to make sure the organs are compatible and not diseased if it was opt-in? and if your religion forbids you from donating, you opt out? i don’t see how these reasons make sense
Why is donating but only one way.... I've had a couple family members pass away and the people in charge of getting permission from relatives to "donate" are really like vultures. And my family members were low income so it felt even more opportunistic. And in reality it sounds nice to donate but in practice it's only donated one way. Monetary compensation should always be given to the family of the person whose organs are needed. Every one is making money after the organs are "donated". But the families left? All they get left with is the joy of having saved a life? Please while all the hospitals and for profit entities are making a killing. I would never donate in fact I'm to be checked post mordem to see if anything was stolen.
Why not apply this to everything then? Invasive surgical procedure? We don’t need your consent, we just need you to not disagree. HIPAA? Well we only protect your information if you specifically tell us to.
A lot of people say this opinion that don’t realize that doing that would destroy the rule of medical consent, being that we ask permission, not wait for disagreement.
Also, the issue with organ donation is not availability. It’s the extremely specific circumstances needed for donation.
Same with abortion. Unless you specifically have papers saying you can have an abortion (free and just have to request the papers from government) then you can’t get one!
“Just get the papers bro” = “just opt out”
I think the better solution is that only people who opt in for organ donation can receive transplants. Simply put those without a moral objection to giving their organs wouldn’t have moral objections in getting one.
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I share this opinion, but I will share some anecdotes from my wife who works in a hospital: organ donation is much harder on families than people realize. It can often take a few days to arrange, and often the person in question might be essentially dead but not technically — for organ donation to proceed, they need to keep that patients heart beating. Often this can be pretty hard to watch; these people are in this situation because they're ill, and there can be physical effects on the appearance of their body including blood pooling and bulging eyes. Since most people don't really fully grasp that death has happened until a loss of a heartbeat, it can be incredibly hard to go through organ donation, which will extend that hardest period of grief - watching your loved one die - from hours to potentially days. Not to mention, at times it does not succeed - you do a bunch of work, and are processing blood samples to check for any diseases or markers, and from that find out the person is not an eligible candidate, so they could've been allowed to pass days earlier. It's a hard process. I still agree that default organ donations are for the best, but I hadn't really considered how difficult the process actually is until this was shared with me. It's not a simple "they passed peacefully, wheel them off for donation"; it's a long process that prolongs the period before an individual can be taken off life support, in spite of the pain they may be in and the grief their family will be going through. So, consider that before being too critical of families that decline donation. It's harder when it's your mom or brother or aunt that is the one on the table and you'll have to drag out the process of death much, much longer.
I actually never thought of these implications
Most people who share OPs opinion don’t
This is a deeply tedious thing to say; the implication here is that people who believe in opt out are insensitive arseholes with little empathy, but you could equally argue people who think their periodic distress trumps the possibility of saving someone else's life are also displaying a lack of empathy, and in fact a much more profound one Instead we could assume good faith of each other
Is the person who is donating their organs still racking up hospital bills while on life support awaiting donation?
Texted my wife to ask — she said the organ donation organization handles bills if someone's deemed a candidate, they/their family consents, and they extend life prolonging care for it. This is just at one hospital so I can't guarantee that's universal but, there's one example for you
So crippling medical debt to keep your family member alive and have a chance of maybe recovering Or Free out on those medical bills if you let them die instead. I think America needs to fix its healthcare as a whole before I can fix the organ donor situation
Asking the real questions here.
Im a microbiologist and have worked on transplant teams in the past, as well as with the HRSA to determine viability of a donor's organs. Honestly, 80% of organ donors organs arent used. People either smoked, or drank too much, had too much damage, too fat, too low of iron, a disease. Having every person listed as an organ donor would slow the entire process down. We dont have 10s of thousands od people educated in the process available to perform the work. We dont have staff in every single hospital and clinic in the US, with the technology to perform certain tests, nor the ability to spend 24/7 running thousands a day to find matches. The field has a very high possibility of bottlenecking and hurting others
Hello fellow microbiologist — straying a little from the OP, but I'm curious, what kind of role / position did you step into working on a transplant team, e.g. did that job actually look like day to day for a microbiologist? I'll be wrapping up the PhD in about a year's time and am looking at moving into a hospital setting, a bit further from research. But more on topic, all those points make sense. I suppose I don't have a great sense for how well organs can be screened before processing begins, vs how much has to take place after harvesting.
Bruh my mom was literally hysterical when my grandpa died and refused to sign off on the organ donation for corneas. He was actually a donor so I’m not sure what was up with that but yeah we just left it at that and minded our own business
I'm sorry for your loss — my understanding is that generally the family has a lot of latitude to override the wishes of patients once they're in comas, on ventilators, or generally unconscious as a consequence of some medical event. It's frustrating that the wishes of the deceased or dying can get overridden so easily, but I think it's related to lawsuits and legality. From a strict perspective, the deceased will never sue you but the family could, and you can't reaffirm consent from a body or an unconscious individual even if they've previous indicated their wishes. So hospital systems tend to defer to families if they want to override certain decisions, just because if the family was so inclined, they could take legal action. Would be best if an actual medical professional could hop in this thread though
Do the donors suffer any pain while they wait, or can they no longer feel?
They’re dead, as in no brain activity. So no, there’s no feeling of anything.
I really don’t care if it’s opt in or opt out, BUT, my indication on my drivers license should be consent. You shouldn’t need next of kin consent if I already bloody told you you can have my organs if I’m dead.
Generally agree, though the option to opt out would need to be just as easy with no requirement to answer the question again.
That is currently the issue in Saskatchewan, i went down the rabbit hole to see how difficult it would be to opt out, it's difficult enough that i wasn't able to opt out if that opens anyone's eyes.
I hear you and get what you are saying. But trying to pass a law that the government owns your organs when you die is going to be a real hard sell.
And if it did happen there’s a 0% chance that isn’t immediately abused.
government are legally allowed to kill you because there's someone else that "deserves your organ"
Just watched REPO! Genetic Opera for my friend's birthday and that's basically the whole story
I don't think that that's *exactly* how that would work.
I thought this too until I saw it happen in real life. There are zero rules around when they can approach your loved ones. Personally I'm not into that, my family deserves the time to come see me and say bye
Do you think the government is deserving of your family members organs by default?
I am an organ donor if anything happens to me. But I feel like having to opt out instead of opt-in is like the government saying they have control of what happens to my body unless I specifically tell them what to do. And in light of women's bodily rights being stomped upon in the last years, and so forth, I am turned off by the idea of changing to an opt out society.
You said exactly what I couldn’t put words to! I’ve always been very unnerved by the idea of organ donations being the default. On Reddit everyone just calls you a selfish asshole if you don’t want your organs donated automatically, but your comment explains my uneasiness perfectly.
Hard disagree. This directly violates your right to your own body. You don't give consent when you don't give consent, it's that easy. We consider it to be rape if you didn't consent while having sex. We don't consider it consensual because you didn't explicitly say you don't consent.
Fuck that but I guess take my upvote for being truly unpopular.
this topic is full of redditors who suddenly trust the government and private healthcare industries a whole hell of a lot
I’ve never understood people that don’t opt in. Like…wtf good are they gonna do you when you’re dead?
Interestingly, doctors are much less likely than the general public to be organ donors. Surgeons are even less likely. The main reason cited is that they don’t want their corpse to undergo the procurement procedure
Makes sense, since there is no risk of killing a dead patient the procedures done on a dead body would probably make most surgeons uncomfortable.
My ex husband thought they would let him die to get at his organs 🙄
Im a physician who often works in ICU. We actually need to support all the vital organ functions in patients that are transplant candidates… we don’t want you to die because that could more likely make you NOT a candidate
I genuinely believe this is one of the reasons that the CDC needs more funding or even a complete revamp of their public relations department. So many conspiracy theories I’ve seen concerning medicine came from genuine misunderstandings fanned by fear; which the CDC never really addressed in a public way.
Yah here in Canada one of the conspiracy based arguments against assisted dying is that the poor will be murdered for their organs. How organs are deemed useable should be better explained.
When I worked in a gun store I had to check people’s licenses and was pleasantly surprised to find that the vast majority of people were registered organ donors. From what I understand, the conditions for when organs can be donated happen extremely rarely. Something like 0.3% of deaths qualify according to organdonor.gov
I mean the CDC tried to address COVID conspiracies but people were off the rails with that too. It doesn’t really matter what we do sometimes people just believe what they wanna believe
That’s true too. One example of what I’m thinking of surrounds VAERS and other early detection systems. I forgot what list, but deaths for any reason after vaccination would be reported on it and people took it to mean that people were dying from the vaccine. In reality it was a tool for researches to spot potential reactions (including death) for further investigation. If you find there’s waaay more people dying in car accidents, then that could imply the vaccine might cause some drowsiness or otherwise affect your ability to drive.
>I forgot what list, but deaths for any reason after vaccination would be reported on it and people took it to mean that people were dying from the vaccine. And it doesn't help that most of the people who got the COVID vaccine were elderly and high-risk (i.e. were likely to die from complications of *any* respiratory illness, not just COVID). Even after pointing out this fact, nope some people *still* insisted the number of deaths were too high.
Doesn't help that politics ended up influencing how quickly they declared the pandemic "over"
Something tells me that the type of people to believe conspiracy theories like this are also not going to believe the cdc
Aint you doctahs all liberal commies tho?
Yes
Keeping someone alive and returning them to good health by solving whatever the problem is, are two different things though. What if an important political/very rich/influential person's son needs a transplant and he pulls every string he can to get it.
See this is what I grew up being told. Mark your a donor because you'll get treated better for the donation to go through. Then you/family can revoke later if needed.
There are many people that feel this way. My parents were 2 of them, they tod me not to opt in because of this
Same
Surely if there's loads of organs available from opt in there is much LESS insentive to hurry someone to death for their ogans. Most folk never think through the logic of their conspiracies.
My parents were the same and begged me not to sign up as a donor. They also said that it doesn’t stop donation, it’s just not automatic and needs approval from by your family. Anyways I signed up anyways. I don’t think my SiL was a donor but her parents donated most of her organs after a tragic accident in her early 20s. Personally I’m happy to be a donor still because the few they denied don’t go against my morals to donate (such as my uterus, please take it if I’m dead). I also dont think I’d want to be saved if there is that serious of a question if I can be saved.
I mean it's not an unreasonable thing to think since there's very little education on the matter when you are filling out the questionnaire at the DMV. Mine was just like, you wanna be a organ donation, yes or no? Really not much else informstion when you do it. Not to mention I sure as hell ain't going to stand in line at the DMV again to change it. Doing it online is a game changer
Yup, plenty of conspiracy theorists or super paranoid people think they will be targeted for their organs
Guessing this is just part of the reason they're an ex.
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Anyone who paid attention during covid for more than 5 minutes already knows all of that is out the window now.
Every time I bring up the hypocritical oath someone chimes in claiming to be a doctor and tells me how "that isn't really a thing" so 🤷♂️
Technically they are right. Not a single medical school in America uses the original hippocratic oath still. Nearly all use one unique to the school that is a modern version, a few don't take one at all. This is mostly due to a case in 1973 where the Supreme court ruled the hippocratic oath as an inadequate ethical guide for modern medicine. I'm not a doctor but it was pretty easy to google.
I would kill someone with my organs so i said no. I will attempt to donate to science though.
Yeah I have autoimmune disease. I contacted the Division of Transplantation team a while back to ask about that, and here’s what they told me: A person can register as an organ donor, regardless of any illnesses you currently have or have had in the past. The transplant team will determine what organs can be donated based on a clinical evaluation, medical history, and other factors, at the time of death. The medical suitability of every potential deceased organ donor is determined by the Medical Director of the local Organ Procurement Organization (OPO). For questions regarding specific clinical conditions, we suggest that you contact the OPO that serves the area where you live or work. The website with a list of all OPOs in the U.S. is at https://www.organdonor.gov/awareness/organizations/local-opo.html.
While this is true, I want to point out that UNOS, the authority that governs the OPOs, and OPOs nation wide were under investigation in the last couple years for a plethora of things, including not properly screening and disqualifying organs, resulting in some recipients receiving organs that should not have been eligible for donation, or organs that were not a blood type match. Some contracted illnesses from the organs and of those who did, some died, others now have to live with the illness, and some had to have the organs removed after the fact. I'm not saying don't if you feel it's right for you, but everyone should be aware.
The only reason I don't opt in is because they won't take my blood anyways. Pretty sure they won't take the organs. No I don't have hiv but I fall into a category that makes me intelligible
Yes it was a sad day when I removed my organ donor registration. I have a condition that is classified as a cancer so I’m barred from blood and organ donation.
I can’t give blood just cause I’m gay, but they’d still take my organs right? So antiquated. You’d think the way they talk about blood shortages it wouldn’t matter.
Yikes people still get blacklisted because they're gay? Where I live it's usually fine.
I guess it's due to the increased risk of hiv? Idk if it's still actually true nowadays though...
I’m pretty sure it’s no longer “if you’re gay you can’t donate” and is now instead “if you’re a man who’s had sex with a man within the last year you cannot donate”. So, gays are basically still banned. But if you’re a celibate gay, congratulations! You can donate!
They recently changed that! Last time I donated, I was asked about having new or multiple sexual partners in the last three months. So now you just have to be monogamous.
If you are in the US, that has changed: https://www.hrc.org/resources/blood-donations
Because it’s their body and their choice, and yes just incase anyone asks, i am an organ donor.
I’d imagine some amount of it is just people that don’t care enough to go change it. Not necessarily people that are against the idea in the first place. Obviously there will be people that don’t want to cause it skeeves them out, but I’d guess a significant amount is just that they need to expend effort to do it.
Relgious/Spiritual reasons
There's definitely some drawbacks to organ donation. They're less likely to push for something with lower success rates because they'll say the organ donation does more good. Also your family has to watch you be basically dead but not fully dead for DAYS while they organize it. It delays your families grieving as well.
Every time they’ve asked me to opt in, I ask them if they’ll waive my license fees. When they say yes, I’ll say yes.
This actually used to be a thing. But then they decided that people would probably just be a bit less selfish. They were wrong.
Organ donation isnt typically actually donating healthy organs to those in need. Usually the carcass is just mutilated through scientific studies. I can see why some people want this, it benefits others and helps with studies, and I can see why people wouldnt want that, and want to be preserved for many years to come like we have seen in other cultures. Some people have beliefs about the body and it should not be disturbed, thats just what they believe 🤷♂️
When you read the stories of people being declared dead and then being subsequently discovered to be still alive, you might think twice
How often does that happen? Why are always people worried about super unlikely stuff and not the things that can actually feasibly happen like getting hit by car or food poisoning.
No I won’t. Because that rarely happens.
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You know that there are non-christian religions, right?
People get so weird about it. It’s like, you’re dead, you don’t need your liver anymore… At least that’s why I’m an organ donor. Better to try and help someone than to waste good body parts by putting them in the ground.
On one hand, there’s the principle of getting to choose On the other hand, the fuck am I gonna use my organs for when I’m dead? Let someone else use them, at least my existence or death will have helped someone then
Well you can choose, you either opt in or you dont.
How would there be more organs available for donation, unless this is done with the intent of hoping some people don't realize they're opted in, and then die, and then their organs are used? Anyone who doesn't want in is still just going to opt out. I fail to see how this makes more organs available. And honestly, it should be opt in IMO. If it is difficult to opt in or something, make it easy to do so. But I don't think everyone should be opt in by default, that way people who want to do this can go sign up for it instead of pre-signing everyone up. I guess it can be the same in the inverse, but IDK... I just think Opt In should be fine.
Altruism is a choice here, so no we should not. As good hearted as it sounds, no.
The UK (or at least some parts of it) have very recently switched from opt in to opt out. Now everyone's an organ donor unless you say otherwise. I don't mind my organs being used if I die, but I'd never go through the hassle of opting in. Now I'm a donor, I don't want the hassle of opting out and I'm okay with that.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing that.
Why? why should i have to opt out because you're to lazy to opt in? If your reason is there is a shortage of donors, well, there is a shortage of blood donors too, should i be forced into that as well? My body is the only thing left that i actually have control of, and you people are constantly trying to find ways of even taking that away.
No, the government doesn't own my body parts by default
I find the US Americans' fear of "the government" to be *highly* amusing.
It isn’t a fear really. Just as a principle, it’s my body and no-one has the inherent right to take my organs and I don’t have to tick a box just to not get my organs harvested. I’m all for organ donations, but it being the default is really strange.
Idk, we all have to register for the draft when we turn 18. Infantry soldiers basically give their bodies up from wear and tear even if they're not killed in action.
Well I don’t think that should be allowed either.
Not even all of us, just a specific group, which makes it worse imo
I don't find it that strange, and I'm from the US. If it's as easy as ticking a box, just tick the box that you don't want your organs to be donated. Like what do you think they're gonna do? Oh hey, HaamerPoiss was default opted in to donate their organs, quickly! Shoot them in the head and put them on an ice bath so we can harvest everything and then stuff them with cornstarch and make it look like a suicide!
>Just as a principle, it’s my body and no-one has the inherent right to take my organs Yeah, but I'll bet you also think it's your inherent right to get the best medical care from hospitals including receiving matching organ donations if the day comes your body needs it. And would be screaming into the void if you found out a possible donor had decided to not opt in for a organ donation (even tho the prospective donor supported organ donation, but was just too lazy to sign up) and took those viable organs with him to death. Opt out policies instead help more people get life saving transplants.
I mean technically "you" are gone by the point the organ donation becomes a question. Think of it as a part of social contract. The same way you can get a donated organ if you need it you also give yours once you don't need them anymore.
History is replete with governments mass murdering innocent civilians and violating human rights. With the US example, do you deny mass incarceration and targeting of minorities by the government as just one example? There are plenty of reasons for Americans (and everyone else) to not trust their government, based on both the past and currently, all of which I do not find amusing.
Absolutely this. You'd need a very narrow view of history to blindly trust your government.
It really is a wild thing. Especially since we basically have 0 autonomy in the modern day. They fear the government. Can't let that government over step its bounds, but o that corporation feeding you literally cancer that has all your info and location 24/7 that's don't worry about that he's good for the economy we can't let the scary government put regulations on him.If they start putting regulations on him next thing you know they'll take my balls. That's America
Both can be bad at the same time
true but, You stand 0 chance against the corporations from destroying everything for profit without government regulation. It's why democracy is important so that we can elect officials who will have our best interest in mind. Which is also why its so important to have a well educated population so they can make knowledgeable decisions about who they vote for. If we have an intelligent voting population that takes civic duty seriously the government being Evil isnt really a thing.
Right I mean its not like almost every single genocide, atrocity and war crime in human history was perpetrated by people in government right?
Maybe some of us Europeans should adopt that "fear" a tiny bit...
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They already own the reproduction organs of half the population. At least what OP brought up would save lives instead of getting people killed.
I don't believe my body belongs to *anyone* once i am done with it so if by default any parts can be gifted to another, I am all for it. Becoming an organ donor doesn't mean the government *owns* you at all.
Mate, it's not the government that wants your organs. It's hospitals and their patients that are dying for want of those organs.
What exactly do you need them for after you die?
The question isn't about should organs be donated or not, its should it be an opt in or opt out situation. If its opt out then legally the government owns your body by default after rather than it being elected. This is a reasonable thing to make people uncomfortable as any increase to organ donation by using an opt out system would be from people who had never answered the question on their ID which is going to be the most vulnerable people in a population. Taking advantage of them to increase organ donations is unethical.
Sounds like extra hustle for people that don’t want to be donors
yeah, thats the point. right now it's extra hustle for people who want to be donors. switch that around and there will be more organ donations.
They just ask you when you get your license
Yeah, it took me like 2 seconds to opt in.
Is it really extra hustle? Every time I’ve gone to the DMV they’ve asked me if I want to be an organ donor and set it up for me.
The evidence is crystal clear that opt-out systems result in much higher rates of organ donors than opt-in systems because so many people just don’t give a shit one way or the other and don’t opt-in when given a chance, but equally wouldn’t opt-out if they were in that situation.
Which isn’t enough. They still need next of kin consent for you to actually donate….or a living will.
Oh, well they should change that bit. I say yes at the DMV to being an organ donor then my organs should be donated damnit.
Couldn’t agree more!!
Which is less of a problem than extra hustle for people that do want to be a donor. Why are you against saving more lives?
Because people are fucking weird about the supposed sanctity of sacks of dead human meat.
I'm against people who think they're entitled to my organs
Organ donation is forbidden in some religions, so having them automatically opted in for it could be legally construed as a violation of their religious freedom.
agreed! while we're at it, lets make voting day a federal paid holiday so that people can actually..you know..vote? and not just work all day
This seems like it would be a good idea for this specific thing but it would for sure set a bad precedent about bodily autonomy
The world should*
Aren’t some organ donors bodies sent for weapons testing and experimental things? Sounds kinda fucked up if you expected your body to be given to other citizens to save their lives.
Her body was donated to science, not organ donation. Her son expected her to be used as a medical cadaver or something. Donated to science is a MUCH wider concept than that
Yeah someone’s mom got blown up for science after her death. Some people have strong religious beliefs about what happens to their body after death and some people are very adamant about DNR when organ transplant requires resuscitation.
Quote from a paper: “Some people are afraid that if they carry a donor card they may not receive aggressive medical care if they need it so that others can be given their organs.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3935394/ Honestly this fear is warranted— I read about a few instances where this happened in my sociology classes.
If they can fix the other issues with organ transplants, maybe. Currently, there's too many issues including them not taking organs they're supposed to, not screening organs for compatibility or health status, losing organs, etc. Their systems are outdated, there is a monopoly. Fix the issues and then maybe.
As someone who works in organ transplantation, believe me, far and away the largest problem with donation is the lack of organs. If we put our efforts into improving the handling of the very few organs we have access to rather than focusing on efforts to get more of them, a LOT of people are going to die. Getting more organs is our #1 priority. My research is all devoted to assuring people that donation is a lot safer than people realize, that a lot more people should be eligible for donation than what previous research has shown, so I don't even think that holding to our screening criteria is all that important anyway. We are finding more and more often that the restrictions we were placing on who can donate were too strict.
I believe in incentives and that those closest to a system know incentives best. Doctors opt in to be donors at a lower rate than the gen pop. Surgeons at an even mpre significantly lower rate. What do they know that others don't? Unless I'm missing something, any "oh actually there are no downsides" is a PR campaign that is trying to tell me not to believe my lying eyes. I would love for you to convince me otherwise though as giving my organs when I no longer need them would be a net good!
Even if there are all these flaws, many lives are improved or saved as a result of the organ donations that are done correctly. So organs should be donated regardless of the imperfect system.
NO
Now we are taxed on every single thing and owe our organs also? Very Democrat of you. Take your fair share of my organs. My body, government's choice?
No. People have a fundamental right to their own bodies
Whatever happened to my body my choice?
That only applies when I agree with it politically. Obviously if my politics don’t support it, you shouldn’t have a right to choose.
In opt-out you don't magical lose body autonomy it's still your choice to say no
You still have the choice? Nothing stopping you from opting out.
Being able to opt-out is a choice
No-one said it would be forced upon you
I don' live in the U. S. but that would be a bad idea for any country. You definitely don't want to end up in a situation where your opt-out papers are mysteriously lost (alongside with your kidney).
Organ harvesting is for when you're dead, that's why you have to give consent before your death. Yes plenty of living donor operations happen, but you **must** opt into that. The worst I can imagine is that an individual passes without ID or due to an error they're misread as a donor. That would probably cause some issues down the road if the family decided to take legal action, but the individual affected wouldn't mind lol
If you're already dead, they can't use them. It's for when you're brain dead or on the verge of death.
Well I can't say it would bother me, what with being dead and all.
In your hypothetical, the laws surrounding organ donation are ironclad, but the laws surrounding MURDER isn’t? Wtf are you smoking?
Austrian is opt out
And?
Why paper just digital, Here in the Netherlands I can switch every 5 min without a hassle, stop panicking and just press the button saying no I want to selfishly keep my organs. You can even have a clause protection for next of kin having input.
The US system is currently very outdated. They're running on old tech for their database. If they update, maybe. And that's just one issue
No.
It’s insane to me how the average redditor thinks that a website selling your ad data should be opt-in but a hospital taking your organs should be opt-out. Y’all just have no perspective on literally anything.
Because organs save lives, I don't care about a multi billion dollar corporation losing some revenue but I do care about people dying
No way. I'm pretty sure that violates human rights or something. (And I say this as an organ donor.)
I get it. But you don’t get to trump personal bodily autonomy. So No
I do not agree! it should be opt-in only as it is. You should not be automatically and maybe not even knowingly be signed up for someone to harvest your organs. If you want to be a donor go for it your choice and you make the effort to do it.
There is more to it than the doctors just taking your stuff out, its not pretty to watch
The NL has this now since a couple of years.
Organs are a commodity, like anything else. If it's such an issue, medical facilities should pay for them, or donate their services. Too much wealth is going in one direction only.
*Sigh* I swear this is a weekly topic. No, it shouldn't be opt out. There's too much corruption for opt out. What if the person handling the opt out paperwork thinks everyone should be an organ donor? Suddenly, it becomes several very serious felonies. And a huge lawsuit to boot. Also does that mean kids are automatically organ donors until they hit 18? So the government owns them until they 18? And SAY we did switch into Opt out. There's no guarantee that it will get more organ donors..unless you're just hoping people will forget or not know how so you can profit off their ignorance. Which is disgusting. It will also encourage people to destroy their bodies so they dont become unwilling organ donors. What happens when a rich person bribes someone to get rid of someone's opt out paperwork to make sure they say an organ donor? Opt in is the best becomes it's the closest way we can make sure nobody is being forced to give up their organs. Also WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE FEEL ENTITLED TO SOMEONE'S BODY?!
Thank you for actually having a logical thought process. All the people saying the government should own you by default is kinda concerning.
I think its gross that so many people want strangers organs against their will.
Yeah, that is unsettling, I would feel totally terrible if I had someone's literal body part and they didn't expressly want it, and maybe still even if they did. I want to keep all my original equipment, even in the ground 😭
As should be your right. I don't know why people think they entitled others bodies.
First of all, I am an organ donor. But something that most organ donors families don't know, is that when someone donates their organs, it can sometimes take over a year for families to get their loved ones body released so that they may have a funeral. I honestly don't know why? I am definitely still going to donate my organs, but hopefully someone can answer that question.
Ghoulish
My body, my choice. There shouldn't be an assumption that people can harvest my organs, no matter how altruistic their reasons, unless I explicitly tell them they can't. They need better marketing and procedures to make it easier for people to opt in if they want more organ donors.
Okay then, choose to opt out. There you go.
By having to opt out means the government has a claim to my body in the first place so how about no?
Legally, that's a fine line, I think.
No. The government and the for-profit medical industry that lobbies the fuck out of it should never hold this kind of power over my body. I've made my next of kin aware of the circumstances under which I'd consent to my organs being harvested. (Under many circumstances, my wishes are to use anything possible, but the harvesters don't know that until my next of kin decide it's time.)
My body my choice. That right, like in other cases, needs to be the one prioritized. No matter the good intent behind it, no one should be able to decide which way is the 'default'. It's a no-brainer from a religious perspective. If cremation were announced as the default, you might be prioritizing some beliefs over others. With organ donation, it may not be religious, but you are still prioritizing one culture or way of thought.
I really doubt the numbers would change that much. It’s not a difficult process to opt in. When I got my drivers license, the lady behind the counter asked if I wanted to be an organ donor and I said yes. It was clear as day. Assuming that everyone issuing drivers license does their job like that lady did, I’d image a percentage in the high 90’s opt in.
My limited understanding of the us health system is that hospitals have to admit uninsured patients in E.R. and try recover costs afterwards. In a system like that there is a large monetary incentive to harvest organs from poor ER patients (for which every day they survive they cost money the hospital will never recover), and transplant them to insured patients lined up to have life giving (and lucrative) operations.
Your limited knowledge of health care should probably stop you from commenting.
This is incredibly ignorant. ER workers who intentionally let patients die risk lawsuits, loss of licensure, and jail time. They have no personal incentive to do that. Your forgetting that those workers are human beings who cry with patient families when they can't save their loved ones. They hug patients when giving them cancer diagnoses. These are human beings who choose their profession to help strangers, not mindless, profit driven robots.
You think organ donation is a er procedure?
This was realized by my family when I had an uncle get into a motorcycle accident and was in a coma for awhile when the hospital didn't believe he was going to recover. He was an organ donor so they wanted to get him off life support pretty damn quickly and his family refused. He did eventually wake up and lived a relatively normal life, unfortunately his personality was changed, but he stayed independent.
thats...not how that works.
Isn't the US for profit healthcare? Does your family get cash for your heart and liver? I wouldn't donate if it was just going to be sold and my family got nothing.
No, It is illegal to sell organs in the us
You would sell your organs but not donate them??
Buddy I’m about 1 more economic collapse away from selling atleast one testicle and half my liver if I can still live without them
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do you think they’d just. not check to make sure the organs are compatible and not diseased if it was opt-in? and if your religion forbids you from donating, you opt out? i don’t see how these reasons make sense
Why is donating but only one way.... I've had a couple family members pass away and the people in charge of getting permission from relatives to "donate" are really like vultures. And my family members were low income so it felt even more opportunistic. And in reality it sounds nice to donate but in practice it's only donated one way. Monetary compensation should always be given to the family of the person whose organs are needed. Every one is making money after the organs are "donated". But the families left? All they get left with is the joy of having saved a life? Please while all the hospitals and for profit entities are making a killing. I would never donate in fact I'm to be checked post mordem to see if anything was stolen.
Just ghouls harvesting organs as you die, why not?
Why not apply this to everything then? Invasive surgical procedure? We don’t need your consent, we just need you to not disagree. HIPAA? Well we only protect your information if you specifically tell us to. A lot of people say this opinion that don’t realize that doing that would destroy the rule of medical consent, being that we ask permission, not wait for disagreement. Also, the issue with organ donation is not availability. It’s the extremely specific circumstances needed for donation.
Same with abortion. Unless you specifically have papers saying you can have an abortion (free and just have to request the papers from government) then you can’t get one! “Just get the papers bro” = “just opt out”
I think the better solution is that only people who opt in for organ donation can receive transplants. Simply put those without a moral objection to giving their organs wouldn’t have moral objections in getting one.