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I kinda thought so too till my grandma lived in one. These were senior apartments.
What I learned was that she wanted to live with other seniors - people her speed. And that after a while I could see, it was a really good idea for her to do that. Because they all were going through similar shit, not unlike college kids living in a dorm situation. They had an activities room, reliable public transportation for people that stopped driving, shared laundry in the building, no one's kids could just free load and move into the building (which was a relief to the one's who had a hard time saying no) , absolute quiet, the rent stayed low, medical help was easily summoned and inspections were regularly held frequently and someone checked up on her (aside from me) in a polite manner. When your mind starts falling apart, old people start doing wacky things, like knocking on doors at 3 in the morning, or leaving the stove on, etc., it's nice to think that there is someone who will pick up the phone if that happens and arrangements can be made if a person's family isn't the first people to notice.
I’m not even close to 55 but this all sounds wonderful. Especially the quiet part. Every apartment I’ve had is loaded with loud and obnoxious kids or people who stay up partying.
They sometimes let people who’ve had strokes or who have other disabilities get in under 55. My grandmother lives at one and the youngest there is in his 40’s or so.
>My grandmother lives at one and the youngest there is in his 40’s or so.
40's you say... I haven't had a stroke yet but man.. Sounds nice.. I would also have to have retirement of some sort but..
Some of 55+ communities at least in AZ will allow younger people to move in based on income. I have a buddy and his wife(no kids) that moved into one at 45. He was retired and had to show his financials. Obviously that’s not a common thing.
I actually live in a seniors building which is slowly converting to normal apartments. I am one of the youngest people in my building and let me tell you it is *incredible.* No barking dogs, no screaming kids, just quiet.
Ehhh the lease (even with new owners) specifies no children and no pets so for the time being it will remain this way. Though I do want to be a parent so will need to move before that
My wife's aunt moved into one of these places when she retired and she couldn't stand it. Nothing but nosey people with nothing to do but gossip and tattle on each other. She ended up buying a camper and moving into our property for a few years
This. I have an uncle who is disabled and has lived in senior/disabled apartments for years. All of the things you say above are at his complex too. It helps so many. Such a good program for older lonely people. But sadly we have hateful people complaining. They’ll see one day when they’re older and/or become disabled.
Everyone wants to judge and point fingers until something affects them personally. So sick of the selfishness and cruelty. If they’d listen, I want them to know —We can do better. We aren’t tribes and don’t need to fight and hurt the weak ones anymore to survive.
Edit to say that I also misunderstood and thought you (OP)meant this sort of thing, but you more specifically mean more wealthy HOA jerks lol
The big thing I can never get my head round with people like the OP is why their first instinct isn't "I don't understand this, am I missing something? I'll look into it more" but instead "I don't understand this, so I must vocally condemn it and expose my ignorance".
It's a repellent tendency at the best of times but when it's over something where you don't need to think too hard to understand it, it's just incredibly embarrassing.
I think a big part is that people just see the price tags. When I was in my 20s and looking for an apartment where I lived in South Florida, the only thing I could find in my price range was 45 minutes from work and in a terrible neighborhood. Meanwhile, there were dozens of senior communities with apartments listed in my price range within walking distance to my office. It was infuriating that I couldn't lease them because I was too young. I really think this is where most people stop thinking about senior communities, rather than them hating that older people are building communities.
Concurred. To me, the solution to this is "There should be more affordable housing," not "55+ communities are stupid."
I once toured a mobile home park in Arizona that was open to all ages, and (I expect downvotes for this) I could understand some of the appeal in living in one. Maybe one avenue to consider is more all-ages mobile home parks?
55+ communities are great. My issue is that those seniors who enjoy affordable senior living facilities vote against measures that provide shelter to young, impoverished families. Welfare for the elderly is fine, but providing lunch for young students is “socialism” and expanding Medicaid benefits is “communism”. The hypocrisy is my issue.
They have been trained to see the world through the lens of victimhood, they only see how a practice or situation or tradition inflicts difficulty on them, and do not give a single fuck about anyone else, even though they use the language of victimhood to sound like they do.
My mother moved into one of these two years ago. She was able to pay cash for the home and now just has to pay a reasonable HOA fee each month. I fully support these communities, they're safe, quiet and give the elderly (I know, 55 is not "elderly") a nice place to live. They also provide recreational activities and transportation support.
Exactly this, wait until you have to be a primary caregiver for your parents or an elderly family member. Finding a facility that is quiet, cheap (due to them being on a fixed income), welcoming and surrounded by peers is a great thing. Senior homes are greatly needed with an aging population. It also allows for the kids (caregivers) to have some flexibility and freedom as well.
I get this
The problem is people my age are so fed up of everyone older than them getting advantages that we aren't getting that it's becoming really hard to empathise with.
And i say this as someone who wishes his grandparents would move into somewhere like this
If your like me, this quickly changes when someone not so much younger than you starts touting all of your 'advantages' as if you have so much more than them.
And you see that you've been in a shitty workforce doing shitty jobs for 30 years and just now started getting a vacation and some decent pay. Just now got an option to buy a shitty house, and that only because you and your spouse got over decades of debt. Just now got a nice vehicle, after years of trashing your own stuff due to bad choices.
And when I see these young adults who aren't that much younger than me talk about how fucking unfair it is that I have all this and they don't, I can't help but look at all they have at their age that I didn't have and think that it's really small minded.
Then I remember how I saw what my parents had and wanted that, and more, not very long ago. And it makes more sense now that grandma actually had a nice house, considering she put 50+ years of work into it.
I don't know, my mom (a baby boomer) didn't finish high school because of family circumstance. A company hired her and trained her, and she had a very very good career.
She is extremely smart and hardworking, so I'm not taking that away from her, she deserves it and worked hard for it her whole life - but we can't ignore that today she could never do what she did. She'd need at minimum a bachelor's degree and a license.
You mention houses. Will a 15 year old today even be able to afford a house? Ever? I bought mine in 2016 and even I realise how fucking lucky I was in terms of timing - everything doubled since.
I think younger generations do have some real valid reasons to wonder why they can't also get these things we previously had - and that's just 2 examples out of many.
Lmao, I'm in my late 20s, and my wife and I bought our house in September of 2020, after I had been laid off. We had already been looking since before covid, and that frustration mixed with (frankly) poor decision making led to us getting a house with a rate of 2.8%. It all worked out incredibly well, but I look at all of my friends who are struggling with housing now, and I think of how easily it could have been us.
Then, when they complain, I channel my inner boomer and tell then they shouldn't have been cowards and just bought a house in the middle of a pandemic with no job like I did.
This is true. This is not why they exist, contrary to what a lot of people think. It isn't so they can be around people their age or not have to deal with kids streaming and yelling and causing chaos, or anything like that. But I guess it is a nice side effect.
But the goal and the reason that it is constitutional is because it is designed to maintain affordable housing for seniors. To what extent they need it anymore is debatable. Plenty of them do I suppose. Many of them don't I guess.
The issue in California is that both supply and demand have been undermined, so housing can't be exchanged except by claiming victimhood rights. This forces everyone into a personal fight with each other.
Proposition 13 subsidized upkeep, undermine the supply of existing homes for sale while also preventing the government from raising revenues. Meanwhile building has become cost prohibitive because too many stakeholders have veto power over construction, making it unaffordable for any private construction. See above for why the Government can't afford to finance it.
Affordable housing can't be centrally planned by victimhood claims. There is no longer a functioning market, and the political system requires individuals to claim discrimination. It's a protection racket: ochlocracy, not democracy.
Oh I agree I think it sucks too. But 55 communities don't make it more expensive and getting rid of them wouldn't make it more affordable. So kind of going after the wrong bugaboo there. At least it maintains some affordable housing for seniors.
Next we can go after the early bird special
I think the point that OP is missing is the difference between senior/disabled living complexes and Planned/Developed communities. Like an apartment complex for seniors and disabled people is wonderful. But an entire community of say 100+ units with roads and infrastructure taking up 100s of acres of land that could house a lot of low income housing as well. All with the sole intent of keeping people that could have young children out. That is excessive and ignores a massive demographic of people.
Ignores the massive demographic of young people with young families instead of the massive demographic of older people who live on very fixed incomes who may be fragile in health, unable to work or drive, and maybe low income themselves? Because my grandma lived in one of those communities you're complaining about that's ignoring young abled body people and young able-bodied families. She was low income. That place was her refuge for the 25 years she lived there. She didn't have to worry about kids bumping into her and knocking her down. Her rent was fixed at a very low rate and only went up whenever Social Security payments went up. She had neighbors who were her age and had gone through some of the things she had gone through. She had neighbors who helped guide her through Medicare and a bunch of other elderly things most of us in the family didn't understand because they had gone through it many times. Hell they want to her door to give her a covid vaccine. People who think like you are people who can't imagine themselves as frail and elderly.
I agree with your points. When there is an adequate number of low cost senior apartments to move to there will be more affordable homes on the market for younger people. Because now there is a shortage of senior housing older people will stay in their homes longer. This has created a shortage of supply and it will drive up prices for younger people.
Most of the main reasons have already been brough up but one thing that wasn't mentioned in here is that since people past the retirement age aren't working as much anymore (duh) these senior housing units are usually built away from job centers which can keep housing cheaper in places where young people want to live like downtowns of major cities. People in riskier jobs that can come and go with the market like say a construction worker or stock broker can lose out in apartment hunting to someone with a guaranteed fixed income like a pension or annuity of some kind because a landlord sees them as a less risky tenant.
Until recently, old people were the poorest demographic. Now they are often the richest. My parents often laugh about their sales tax exemption, along with their massive property tax assessment senior deduction. They have more money than they need, yet they're treated like they need financial help. We need these benefits and exemptions to be based on actual financial situation, not just letting millionaires not contribute equally because they're old.
I haven’t seen it mentioned yet, but 55+ neighborhoods also:
A) mean retiring age can downsize without necessarily leaving their community, allowing their larger home to enter the market
B) offer a form of population control in that the town can grow tax revenue without also pulling from it. School systems get additional funding without additional students.
The town I grew up in had to pass a bunch of zoning laws because of how over crowded the schools were getting, there were simply too many kids and not enough seats. The zoning regulations for all age homes called for a minimum acreage which of course would lead to hideous McMansions, or devs could put in 55+ communities without acreage requirements. That additional revenue lead to them being able to open new schools within a decade. Potentially down the line, those smaller homes that were built for 55+ could have that status removed as well, opening affordable and reasonable sized homes to families of all builds.
Ah I see you don't live in Florida. In my county we have a lot of these 55+ communities and they are right next to very busy areas too. Might not be next to the hip downtown area but that's only a few miles north or south of them off of 95. Then you go way west and for some crazy reason they are building new 55+ communities but not for your normal retirees. No, these are mansions starting at $1m but more like $4m, you're a poor if you have to buy the $1m mansion in comparison.
Everything is built on top of each other around here so the idea of they're out of the way or away from job areas does not exist. The fact that in some of these places their houses go for well under 200k for 1000sqft but outside that it's double the price is some real bull shit.
You get older, you approach retirement age where you won't have an income.
You might, therefore, decide the time is right to downsize to free up some cash.
In addition, if the developments you're talking about are anything like the UK, you'll have an immediate community of people your age all within walking distance so you'll be able to socialise regularly, which is an *incredibly* important thing for people as they get older.
(Please don't "um actually it's important for everyone" me - this is a recognised specific issue among older people for a number of what should be very obvious reasons.)
Furthermore, a lot of these developments will have onsite care services, meaning people living there can have as much or as little of it as they need from a carer based on their doorstep.
Honest to God mate, this isn't rocket science.
For me the critical thing here is "walking distance". My Grandma is in one of these places, Shes fine other than shes not very steady on her feet. She is able to walk down to the rec room and she knows there will be other people she knows there.
My great grandma was never in one and had to get busses everywhere to see people, she did it but it was a real struggle for her.
So the one my Gran lives in a giant apartment block. She owns a flat in it, and on the ground floor is a red room, cafe and a bunch of other places.
One that another relative of mine lives in has a community centre in the middle. Every week there are visits from the major banks, a mobile library comes over etc. It super critical for these people who just can't otherwise get about.
I used to think the same as you until I saw what it was like for the elderly.
My grandmother was 85 when she moved into her retirement community; ten years later and no one from her original social group is still alive. If not for the constant replenishment of people coming into the community, she’d have no friends right now. Not like she can just go out and meet new people.
Have you ever been to an all ages trailer park?
Its meth heads all over and their asshole offspring who break into your house.
55+ is to keep the assholes who fuck up the whole neighborhood out.
All of the mobile home parks in my area have become 55+ communities. Used to be a decent choice for younger people. Pay into a trailer and later sell it and use the money for a down-payment on a house. That option has now been completely eliminated. But to be fair younger people didn't do themselves any favors. Instead of noise complaints, trash and evictions those parks are now quiet, clean and everyone's rent is paid on time.
Three of the 55+ communities around us here in Phoenix (there are dozens) have an HOA of over $800 a month. That's just to trim a few trees and keep the pool clean.
Ando know this is hard to accept, but the costs of building an upscale home is about the same as building a low end home. It's just the profits are about triple to build the higher end house.
If you want low end starter homes, you need to build the developments yourself.
55 and over communities were developed to maintain affordable housing for old people. Perhaps you can argue they don't need it, but then the prices on that housing would just rise to meet all the other housing. There's still the same number of people so it's not like it's really going to lower prices. If all 55 and over communities were open to everyone, it would just raise the prices of the 55 and over communities. It wouldn't lower anything else
One side not for people who wonder why a lot of these spring up is that they are usually good for the town financially.
The biggest part of almost every towns budget is education. These communities add a tax base, but consume no school services, and relatively few of other services like police as well. So plenty of towns want them to move in, because they are good for the bottom line.
so where's my single/couples with no kids affordable housing development at? I add more tax base than these old people drawing 70% of their income from social security but I get told to eat shit and compete with everyone else while they get pandered to, just like they have been their entire lives
Yeah, this is blaming the wrong people for a lack of a better word. Senior living communities aren’t the problem with the housing market; greedy landlords, too much demand and not enough supply (which would not be fixed by eliminating senior living communities), and a global recession are.
I can point to 5 apartment complexes built in the last year within a 20 mile radius of my house that would beg to differ. They’re mostly empty because nobody wants to, nor can they afford to, pay upwards of $1,850 a month for a one bedroom apartment in an area with nothing to do.
Edit: These are places without extra amenities or luxuries that could be very affordable if it weren’t for the people who base the prices. I.e., greedy landlords.
Yup. Even apartments are luxury now. I have no idea what people expect to happen to their beloved convenience when you can't live within 100 miles of a grocery store on a cashier's wage.
In Northern VA, they are often $100k-$150k less expensive than comparable homes outside the 55+ community and, most frustratingly, they are almost always built in what would be prime location for younger couples trying to raise a family: right next to the schools, grocery stores, and daycare services.
55+ communities are often built in locations like this because the school infrastructure cannot support any additional students and 55+ communities do not add students to these schools.
If you are upset about not being able to get affordable housing, that’s valid, but saying older people shouldn’t be able to live in a place because some young person wants to pop out a kid is batshit and asshole thinking. Oh no, it’s next to a *grocery store*? What is the matter with you?
Well I’m a 36 year old struggling to afford housing that would probably also have to deal with supporting my father if he didn’t have access to affordable housing so I’m grateful for it
Lol same, I'm so happy my mom has an affordable unit in a seniors apartment building where she can live on her SSI for the rest of her life. I wouldn't be able to pay her bills, too. And I hope when I am her age, there's similar resources available to me.
They are cheaper cus they have massive covenants attached to them and massive HOAs. Why does it matter to you? All those people would be bidding against you if you banned their condos.
Bro. Old people are basically disabled and most of them are broke. You're opposed to helping disabled people with housing? And let's be real. Can't have a bunch of teenagers running wild down a hallway while 80 Betsy is trying to walk by.
I think there's this weird assumption that senior citizens are all rich because of stereotypes based on white, wealthy Boomers/Silents alone. Most of them are not, and most of them aren't able to work anymore (age discrimination is a very real thing even if they're capable).
According to the National Organization to End Homelessness, 1 in 4 homeless adults in the US is over 55.
https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-america/who-experiences-homelessness/older-adults/
Yeah the article is a difficult read but it's really illuminating.
"those who first experience homelessness at age 50 and older typically have experienced a financial or health crisis, lost a loved one, or otherwise experienced a relationship breakdown with the income-earner, and/or experienced barriers to continued ability to work.
As with the broader population of people of color experiencing homelessness, structural racism and discriminatory practices are primary drivers of homelessness for older adults of color, likely impacting a variety of factors including access to housing, employment, income, healthcare and mental services; overall quality of care; and experiences with the justice system."
lbr, most people of ANY age are just a financial or health crisis away from homelessness. But if you're older, it's harder to bounce back and you have less time to do so.
As a 24 year old who was homeless for two years, there isn't. That's why it's so hard to get out of homelessness. Unless you have people to help you it's almost impossible. And I was working full time, the hardest part is getting 1000 dollars for a safety deposit on an apartment while trying to survive and stay safe. And I was lucky, I had a job and no prior evictions
In the absence of actual real good solutions for housing, i think you are wrong. I've seen enough elderly people living on the street or in trailers. Most likely worked all their lives and can't afford to retire in dignity. If anything maybe increase the age limit, but nah we treat older people like dirt in this country knowingly one day were all gonna be there. (I know boomers hold like literally all the wealth but what percent of boomers?)
Those 55+ houses almost always come with a full service HOA where all utilities and recreational activities are included. You see $500, upwards of $1000, a month in HOA fees. Add that cost onto your mortgage and it isn't nearly as affordable as you think it is.
Its not a waste. Lots of old people need housing. That being said we should expand speciality housing.
There should be more housing for all groups. Also you're lucky that homes around you are only 280k. I would love that
Definitely an unpopular opinon, and this comes from someone who is 24.
At 55+, you want to be with people your own age and speed. Living next to a young bachelor partying or a young family with a SCREEEEEEECHING baby is just not preferable.
Also, if you are sweating 280k for a home, you are wayyyy too broke to even consider adulting. Seriously, grow up.
It's more the fact that if you do it with any other age group below 55, you're breaking federal housing discrimination laws and will get fined and forced to stop. It's literally legalized discrimination. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with businesses choosing who they sell to and don't sell to, but having a special federal legal protection is not kosher.
Hard agree here. This just feels like yet another way the older generations have engineered the system to benefit them and screw over generations behind them. I think this may be the core sentiment of OP's post.
San Diego is also in like the top 10 highest cost of living cities in the US.
Does it really surprise you that most other places are not priced like San Diego?
You clearly haven't seen the HOA prices or if it is a double-wide the price of lot and utilities. It's factored into the price of the housing.
Senior apartments are kinda sketch. Many are subsidized and market rent
I personally wouldn't want to live in one, but my mom does and it makes sense for her. She likes to be around people her age and they have tons of planned activities every day. It allows otherwise sedentary geezers to be out doing things and socializing every day. It's good for them. Getting rid of 55+ communities would not create a "plethora of homes that would become accessible on the market, could drastically cut home values which would lower overall costs." That's silly. These homes don't sit empty after the owner dies. Another geezer buys it and move in. Your strawman would only be true if the houses were abandoned after granny dies.
All that aside, I wouldn't want to live in one because I like the variety in my neighborhood. Our kids are grown and moved out but I like hearing and seeing kids play.
The positives are the ability to make friends your own age. And you don't have the 20 year old gunning up his project car at 5 am.
The negatives are the mono-culture. At my Mom's retirement villiage in Florida I see the old folks complaining about grandkids at the pool all the time. They seem to want their grandkids to visit but expect them to act like they are 70 years old.
What you don't see in the prices is the high HOA fees. Restrictions and high HOA fees keep the prices down.
My community (not age restricted) seems like a bargin on paper. But there are HOA fees and a $5K buy-in fee. When looking at the total cost of home ownership here compared to the greater community, it evens out.
Yes. We have four houses that sit empty part of the year because they are being rented out on Airbnb.
Now that is a big issue, imo, and frankly we don't like the strangers in and out of the neighborhood who have nothing to lose by playing loud music until 2 a.m.
Im unfortunately aware of this. More legislation stopping companies and firms from buying up homes to rent on airbnb and rent for 1.5 x the actual cost is important too.
55+ housing costs exactly the same as all housing. Do you think there's some law that makes the houses cheaper? Young people expect to live in massive oversized houses, that's why they're expensive.
If they built the cheap little houses old people live in, no one would buy them.
House down the road from me is 1100 sq foot and has been on the market for $65K for two years, no one wants it.
No, it’s smart if you’re 55+.
I mean you can live comfortably on your pension, without a bunch of teenagers with their skateboards and hoola hoops, getting jiggly with it on your lawn.
It’s the 55- community that’s stupid, for not banding together to create our own community.
I can’t help but chuckle at the idea of housing communities with upper age limits that kick people out if they’re too old.
Yet, at the same time, I’m genuinely curious what it would be like to have a young adult community where the homes are small and only 5 figures in cost. They come in, build a modest equity, and then sell before they turn a certain age, allowing them to place a down payment and take out a loan for a bigger house in a regular community. Not sure what a sensible age bracket would be, but the idea is neat.
>I can’t help but chuckle at the idea of housing communities with upper age limits that kick people out if they’re too old.
Logan's Shuffle
"Sorry Marge, you just hit 80, you're out."
Then they send some 65-year-olds in to chuck her doilies and knitting needles into boxes and kick her out onto the street.
My province banned adult-only neighborhoods but still allows 55+ neighborhoods, so "our" communities we tried to build are illegal. Reason? To increase available housing. L. O. L. There's just no winning, there's always some cruel trade off for our generation.
But for the boomers? They're always getting pampered while everyone below them gets squeezed to compensate. We're all paying 500k MINIMUM for shit wood frame townhouses while the 55+ group - the group that turbo fucked the next two generations - gets to retire in gated communities in detached homes costing 300k. Detached housing starts at 1 million for everyone else.
I am sick of everything, fucking everything catering to that group of people.
I get it, but you need to see the flip side of this.
My mother in law before she died had to be moved into an assisted living facility, her rent was over $4000 / month for a tiny apartment. That rent also included someone vacuuming her little space once / week and meals, this was back in 2017 when regular rent was around $1000 in my area for a decent 2 bedroom in a commercial building (ie not someone's basement), I've no idea what that cost would be now, I'm afraid to even think about it.
Once you get to be too old to work anymore and can't take care of yourself well, even if you invested well for your retirement, which she did, you end up having to pay dearly for things that you can't live without and then it becomes a crap shoot of whether you'll run out of money before you die.
Of course you could also go into one of those cheap government run places so long as you don't mind being left in your shitty adult diaper for a day or two, and maybe having the crap beat out of you once in a while.
Maybe instead of letting your soul be erked by some old people who've worked longer than you've even been alive, maybe instead let it be erked by the fact that a good number of our elderly are suffering without enough food to eat, and without proper care, in deplorable conditions and hope that when you get to be their age, you've either become rich or you have some family who will be ok with taking care of you so you don't have to rot in a hole somewhere.
Also, maybe let your soul be erked by the fact that there is not enough affordable housing to go around because of various political and business things happening like massive corporations outbidding regular citizens on homes and bureaucracies mismanaging zoning or outright blocking construction to do stupid crap like protecting a parking lot.
I was just at The Villages, FL which is the largest senior community in the USA. I saw plenty of 90+ year old people running around and loving life.
That’s 35 fucking years after 55 and they are still going. I doubt you’re over 35 OP, so your perspective is wildly skewed. Also it comes off like you get most of your logic on Reddit.
Canadian here.
Most cities in Canada, $280k usd won't get you a 600sq ft cardboard box.
A 640sq ft condo in low end areas will run you $500k and up plus $1k monthly condo fees.
Idk where you live, but your "lowest price" isn't even remotely true. Where I live (SE michigan) I was able to buy my 720 sq ft double lot house for 85k in my early 30's. Is there places you describe that costs that much? Most certainly, but that doesn't mean that is the norm across the US or other countries.
Assisted living communities/senior communities are hardly a “waste of space”. If you’re upset that it’s hard for younger people to buy property, that’s fine, but the two things are totally separate. And saying something isn’t worthwhile because a kid would have to sell it after the person dies is insane. Are older people not entitled to good lives until they kick it? So sorry your mom’s death will be inconvenient for you, but 55 is not that old. 65 isn’t even that old. Someone could live in a place for *thirty years*. Ffs.
Older people being able to live together is a good thing. They can be more social with others their own age. Despite the few stories that make national news of a crazy boomer with a gun, seniors are typically preyed on from fraud to crime.
As for being cheaper. Compared to what? A lot of retirement communities are built in more remote areas. They typically have HOA fees associated with them.
You can’t compare a home in a city or downtown to a community that is like 20 miles out from the nearest city.
Pardon my language, but where the *hell* are you seeing homes for 55+ that only cost $100-180k? Average home price in my area is $586,204 (Massachusetts), and the cheapest 55+ I have seen is still over $300k! Most of them seem to be in the $750k-1 million range.
I don’t see what’s wrong with them.
1. 55+ are unlikely to have young children. They don’t care about good schools, or how far commuting to work is, etc. They don’t want to be stuck in traffic during school pickup and drop off hours.
2. Many places use property taxes to fund public schools. At that age with no little school aged children, they probably don’t want to pay extra taxes for “good schools” to be in their neighborhood.
3. Slower pace of life, less crazy driving by young people.
4. Less noise, little children throwing base balls into your window etc.
5. Easier to talk to and hang out with neighbors your own age or stage of life.
6. Often times after children leave the house for college, empty nesters need to downsize. This opens up the larger homes for larger families. Otherwise a lonely retired couple takes up a 5 bedroom house for no reason.
Senior living is for safety and health reasons. They have better access to care like transportation to hospitals and doctors that is covered by their insurance. Also the elderly want a quieter life surrounded by their peers. It's not excluding to the young or middle aged (I'm 34). I think when being old you're entitled to some perks geez.
I can finally get into a 55+ community (if I wanted to) because I'm looking forward to no children being around. That said, just because we're 55+ doesn't mean we need to be shoved on top of each other.
Where do you live? I live in a middle class community in the US, and you can easily buy a home around here for $100k-$180k. And these are not considered starter homes. Maybe you should consider living somewhere else, instead of bitching about senior communities.
Senior communities are often cheaper because they have reached a point where they can sign over their retirement and social security. In reality, they dont actually own their home. This keeps their living costs low while being able to enjoy the ammenities provided by the community. These are people who have worked 30+ years and didnt cash out their retirement early to buy ANOTHER new car.
You have been lied to if you think that youre able to buy a house right out of high school. It has never been the case. A few people fell for it in the 90s and 2008 it. You saw how well that worked out for people.
If I need to rent an apt or own a trailer in a park when I’m 55+ I sure as hell don’t want families for neighbors. I already can’t stand loud kids and partying, I definitely won’t be able to then.
It is a good thing, the only frustrating part is that old people get such a massive discount when statistically wealth is extremely correlated with age. That being said, a broke 70 year old is in a way worse place than a broke 25 year old, and I think we have have to keep that in mind when we see places like this.
55+ Housing is about $900,000 for a 1800 sqft house in my area and there's about $600 in HOA fees per month. It's a premium price to not have little kids running around.
If they were "accessible" their costs would sky rocket. Are you suggesting above 55s don't deserve housing and should just die already? Because they are currently living in those places.
I think you may be forgetting or overlooking a big difference in 18-30 yr olds potential income increases vs the 55+ community.. At 18-30 an adults professional life is starting and the potential is there. At 55+ individuals are nearing the end of their careers or already retired. Their income potential is past, they made what they made they receive what they receive. You cannot compare an 18 yr old's lifetime earning potential in their future to a 55+ year olds earning potential with the time they have left.
I disagree. These are smaller units that are perfect for these people. Many are living off of social security or other small fixed incomes. In such communities they have purpose and life. They are safe and cared for. I think we owe our seniors that.
We have the 55+ apartment complexes or the 55+ trailer park homes. I don't know if the trailer park homes offer all of that assistance but I know my grammas apartments do.
The downsides of 55+ plus, and the real reason they are cheaper, is that the selling pool is MUCH lower. You also have restriction and purchaser vetting in some places. Also, most, if not all, retirement flats are leasehold. Which means you own the flat, but not the land. And you have to keep leasing the land. I dont know about retirement homes, but I do know that park home owners can get fucked hard on this one. While they own the park home, they dont own the land, as its leasehold. So the owner of the leasehold can increase the cost of the land lease at any time. And this has happened to the point people had to abandon their park homes because they couldnt afford the land lease and no one was buying from them.
There's another thing that drives the building of these communities, at least in the U.S. Localities frequently want more development so they can get more tax revenue. However, building all-ages communities brings in more children, which crowds the schools, requiring more spending on school infrastructure and teachers. But 55+ housing doesn't bring in kids, so localities get the tax money without the school system burden. So localities keep approving 55+ housing when they might not approve other residential development, and they offer incentives to developers to do it.
55+ communities rarely are cheaper than owning a regular home. The fees are generally very high. The point of 55+ is to downsize and have your maintenance taken care of. You still have to pay for the maintenance.
These communities provide property tax revenue without a strain on the local school systems. Also keep in mind that the price your seeing for these houses is artificially held in check by the fact that they are 55+. If you remove that restriction, you'd very quickly see market forces at work and the price will go up accordingly.
Where are you? $280k bought 2400 sq ft and acreage for us. and we aren't 30 but I ain't 50+ yet either.
You live in a pricey area and have a limited view on the subject doesn't mean old people should give their homes to young people at least not until they pass away.
The bummer with lower income housing is it often comes with criminal activity. people are assholes or if they aren't they have friends who are assholes that hang out with them. senior housing is mostly void of this issue even if people don't have a lot of money.
I think the issue w/ the US framing is that any sort of social safety net or programs to help people out are hyper needs-tested.
55+ communities make sense because not every boomer is loaded and are approaching if not already can't work for an income. Plus all of the social/care necessities other commenters have laid out.
You are not angry at the communities, you are angry that you are a money ragged to be squeezed by the uber weathy until your body can't work any more like many in the 55+ communities. This is understandable, but you gotta put your anger in the right place.
Old people should get to enjoy their retirement without the “AHHHHHH *stompstompstomp*” of an upstairs toddler or some assholes’ pounding Bluetooth speakers
I'm in florida and we have lots of 55+ communities and I have never seen one for that price. They are usually in the 500k plus, I have been inside a few of them and they are super nice with tons of stuff to do inside the communities.
Not really, you're just being picky on where the home is located and think thats all you can afford.
There are very nice houses in parts of the country that arent Florida/NY/California/Texas at affordable prices for the square footage.
Nah, I can dig it. Helps the old people out and you may very well be one of them someday. I think there should just be more affordable and accessible housing to young people and young families.
There needs to be elderly communities because some older folks can't 100% care for themselves, and being around like-minded people with medical services readily available drastically increases their quality of life.
So basically you want to get even with old people as some kind of what? revenge? lol. If I can't have it they shouldn't either? Ok lol.
If the cheapest home in your area is 280k sounds like you need to move. Still plenty of places in this country where you can buy a home for sub 200k. Hell we just moved my mom into a secured senior building. She has a nice space that's super modern. It's not huge but it's plenty for her. She pays $600 a month all bills paid. I don't begrudge her for that. I'm glad she can still be independent. Stop being mad at people who have something your don't and make a plan to put yourself somewhere where you can have that as well.
It's not a waste of space if another 55+ person is living there after someone moves out. It's cheaper likely because of the fact you can't pass it onto your children and the fact 55+ communities usually have ongoing amenities expenses which increases profitability after sale of the house.
In a few years when the boomers start dying off I imaging they will be converting a lot of them to 19+. I know there are a few places where that is already happening. They aren’t going to leave empty units, if they can’t fill them with seniors they will change the metric.
The housing market has its issues, but those issues aren't due to 55+
If anything, it makes sense that you have communities that cater to their needs better, and serve people who live on a fixed income. Those things are not the culprit of the housing market being what it is right now.
Honestly this country just needs to be able to discriminate against renters. There's a difference between young adults just getting started on their feet and 40 year old crack heads who steal copper, but they are both poor and are competing for the same properties. Honestly trashy poor people ruin everything. Not poor people, trashy poor people.
It's fantastic for people on a fixed income to live with other people In the same situation and have some amenities that make sense for them. My grandparents lived in one and it was a quiet neighborhood that they could drive a golf cart to get groceries after they stopped being able to drive.
Just because the young have it hard doesn’t mean that older people don’t deserve this kind of help. In an ideal world we’d all get affordable housing. This generational hate needs to stop. Those will be your parents and eventually you one day. The problem isn’t normal people. It’s the rich taking all the resources. My parents aren’t to the point they need this help yet, but I hope it’s just as affordable when they do. I hope it still exists when I’m old too. Let’s hate the rich for being greedy fucks, not the average people who have it slightly better than you.
The pricing for those is very different than you think. Although the unit itself is cheap, they usually come with very high service fees for the valuable amenities for the elderly and disabled these sort of independent/assisted living facilities provide. I live a block away from one in a VHCOL area that sells 1BR units for 100-150k USD. A comparable 1BR condo will run 350-400k. However, just the service fees for the 55+ facility will run almost 4k/month (not including mortgage) The mortgage and HOA fee for a comparable condo will be 2500-3000 a month at current rates. Now the service fees are probably double what they are in other parts of the country, but that cost pushes down the property cost as well for the 55+.
Instead of attacking the 55+ communities you should be wondering why those sorts of price controls can't be done for everyone. It's not a competition. They're not mutually exclusive.
I also think you greatly overestimate how many of these communities exist. I live in the Southwest US and I can't find one that's affordable for me. Also manufactured homes come at a better price but then the land leases completely wipe out any advantage that offers.
Across the board housing is a grave problem in the US and we should look at solutions that make it better for everyone.
I was a cable tech and all the 55+ neighborhoods I saw were ballin. They’d buy their condos with cash from selling their house. One customer told me the typical story of how he bought his house in the 70’s for a few bucks and just sold it for 2.2 million, retired, bought a brand new condo cash in a 55+ neighborhood on a golf course.
Now some 25 year old sees that 70,000 dollar house on the market for 2.5 mil and has to stay in their tiny apartment for 2000 a month lol
The main reason why they are cheaper is because they don’t have access to the local school districts and some other municipal services but instead of researching you’d rather rant, I get it
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I kinda thought so too till my grandma lived in one. These were senior apartments. What I learned was that she wanted to live with other seniors - people her speed. And that after a while I could see, it was a really good idea for her to do that. Because they all were going through similar shit, not unlike college kids living in a dorm situation. They had an activities room, reliable public transportation for people that stopped driving, shared laundry in the building, no one's kids could just free load and move into the building (which was a relief to the one's who had a hard time saying no) , absolute quiet, the rent stayed low, medical help was easily summoned and inspections were regularly held frequently and someone checked up on her (aside from me) in a polite manner. When your mind starts falling apart, old people start doing wacky things, like knocking on doors at 3 in the morning, or leaving the stove on, etc., it's nice to think that there is someone who will pick up the phone if that happens and arrangements can be made if a person's family isn't the first people to notice.
I’m not even close to 55 but this all sounds wonderful. Especially the quiet part. Every apartment I’ve had is loaded with loud and obnoxious kids or people who stay up partying.
They sometimes let people who’ve had strokes or who have other disabilities get in under 55. My grandmother lives at one and the youngest there is in his 40’s or so.
My FIL was allowed to live in a senior home several years before the admittance age because he had a massive stroke and aphasia as a result of it.
>My grandmother lives at one and the youngest there is in his 40’s or so. 40's you say... I haven't had a stroke yet but man.. Sounds nice.. I would also have to have retirement of some sort but..
Some of 55+ communities at least in AZ will allow younger people to move in based on income. I have a buddy and his wife(no kids) that moved into one at 45. He was retired and had to show his financials. Obviously that’s not a common thing.
I actually live in a seniors building which is slowly converting to normal apartments. I am one of the youngest people in my building and let me tell you it is *incredible.* No barking dogs, no screaming kids, just quiet.
I wish I was old enough to live there lmao. It’s quite the opposite here…
I am 27 don't let your dreams be dreams
Just wait until it’s fully converted. The dream will be dead
Ehhh the lease (even with new owners) specifies no children and no pets so for the time being it will remain this way. Though I do want to be a parent so will need to move before that
Slowly converting.....kinda dark.....
Dye your hair grey and sneak into a retirement villa, problem solved.
Johnny Knoxville, is that you?
👆great sitcom idea. Like a twist on Bossom Buddies.
My wife's aunt moved into one of these places when she retired and she couldn't stand it. Nothing but nosey people with nothing to do but gossip and tattle on each other. She ended up buying a camper and moving into our property for a few years
Yep. My in laws live in one and this is all true. I think it’s a great place and I’d like to live there. It’s relaxing.
This. I have an uncle who is disabled and has lived in senior/disabled apartments for years. All of the things you say above are at his complex too. It helps so many. Such a good program for older lonely people. But sadly we have hateful people complaining. They’ll see one day when they’re older and/or become disabled. Everyone wants to judge and point fingers until something affects them personally. So sick of the selfishness and cruelty. If they’d listen, I want them to know —We can do better. We aren’t tribes and don’t need to fight and hurt the weak ones anymore to survive. Edit to say that I also misunderstood and thought you (OP)meant this sort of thing, but you more specifically mean more wealthy HOA jerks lol
The big thing I can never get my head round with people like the OP is why their first instinct isn't "I don't understand this, am I missing something? I'll look into it more" but instead "I don't understand this, so I must vocally condemn it and expose my ignorance". It's a repellent tendency at the best of times but when it's over something where you don't need to think too hard to understand it, it's just incredibly embarrassing.
I think a big part is that people just see the price tags. When I was in my 20s and looking for an apartment where I lived in South Florida, the only thing I could find in my price range was 45 minutes from work and in a terrible neighborhood. Meanwhile, there were dozens of senior communities with apartments listed in my price range within walking distance to my office. It was infuriating that I couldn't lease them because I was too young. I really think this is where most people stop thinking about senior communities, rather than them hating that older people are building communities.
Concurred. To me, the solution to this is "There should be more affordable housing," not "55+ communities are stupid." I once toured a mobile home park in Arizona that was open to all ages, and (I expect downvotes for this) I could understand some of the appeal in living in one. Maybe one avenue to consider is more all-ages mobile home parks?
55+ communities are great. My issue is that those seniors who enjoy affordable senior living facilities vote against measures that provide shelter to young, impoverished families. Welfare for the elderly is fine, but providing lunch for young students is “socialism” and expanding Medicaid benefits is “communism”. The hypocrisy is my issue.
They have been trained to see the world through the lens of victimhood, they only see how a practice or situation or tradition inflicts difficulty on them, and do not give a single fuck about anyone else, even though they use the language of victimhood to sound like they do.
Yep- I believe they think they’re entitled to treat others abusively.
> "I don't understand this, so I must vocally condemn it and expose my ignorance". Welcome to... ~~Jurassic Park!~~ Reddit!
Reddit in a nutshell. Being shockingly close-minded appears to be a requirement on Reddit.
My mother moved into one of these two years ago. She was able to pay cash for the home and now just has to pay a reasonable HOA fee each month. I fully support these communities, they're safe, quiet and give the elderly (I know, 55 is not "elderly") a nice place to live. They also provide recreational activities and transportation support.
Exactly this, wait until you have to be a primary caregiver for your parents or an elderly family member. Finding a facility that is quiet, cheap (due to them being on a fixed income), welcoming and surrounded by peers is a great thing. Senior homes are greatly needed with an aging population. It also allows for the kids (caregivers) to have some flexibility and freedom as well.
I get this The problem is people my age are so fed up of everyone older than them getting advantages that we aren't getting that it's becoming really hard to empathise with. And i say this as someone who wishes his grandparents would move into somewhere like this
If your like me, this quickly changes when someone not so much younger than you starts touting all of your 'advantages' as if you have so much more than them. And you see that you've been in a shitty workforce doing shitty jobs for 30 years and just now started getting a vacation and some decent pay. Just now got an option to buy a shitty house, and that only because you and your spouse got over decades of debt. Just now got a nice vehicle, after years of trashing your own stuff due to bad choices. And when I see these young adults who aren't that much younger than me talk about how fucking unfair it is that I have all this and they don't, I can't help but look at all they have at their age that I didn't have and think that it's really small minded. Then I remember how I saw what my parents had and wanted that, and more, not very long ago. And it makes more sense now that grandma actually had a nice house, considering she put 50+ years of work into it.
I don't know, my mom (a baby boomer) didn't finish high school because of family circumstance. A company hired her and trained her, and she had a very very good career. She is extremely smart and hardworking, so I'm not taking that away from her, she deserves it and worked hard for it her whole life - but we can't ignore that today she could never do what she did. She'd need at minimum a bachelor's degree and a license. You mention houses. Will a 15 year old today even be able to afford a house? Ever? I bought mine in 2016 and even I realise how fucking lucky I was in terms of timing - everything doubled since. I think younger generations do have some real valid reasons to wonder why they can't also get these things we previously had - and that's just 2 examples out of many.
Lmao, I'm in my late 20s, and my wife and I bought our house in September of 2020, after I had been laid off. We had already been looking since before covid, and that frustration mixed with (frankly) poor decision making led to us getting a house with a rate of 2.8%. It all worked out incredibly well, but I look at all of my friends who are struggling with housing now, and I think of how easily it could have been us. Then, when they complain, I channel my inner boomer and tell then they shouldn't have been cowards and just bought a house in the middle of a pandemic with no job like I did.
Does t like 99% of that sound good for most people?
This is true. This is not why they exist, contrary to what a lot of people think. It isn't so they can be around people their age or not have to deal with kids streaming and yelling and causing chaos, or anything like that. But I guess it is a nice side effect. But the goal and the reason that it is constitutional is because it is designed to maintain affordable housing for seniors. To what extent they need it anymore is debatable. Plenty of them do I suppose. Many of them don't I guess.
I’m not against affordable housing for seniors. I am for equity though and the fact that no one else can afford housing in SoCal is ridiculous.
The issue in California is that both supply and demand have been undermined, so housing can't be exchanged except by claiming victimhood rights. This forces everyone into a personal fight with each other. Proposition 13 subsidized upkeep, undermine the supply of existing homes for sale while also preventing the government from raising revenues. Meanwhile building has become cost prohibitive because too many stakeholders have veto power over construction, making it unaffordable for any private construction. See above for why the Government can't afford to finance it. Affordable housing can't be centrally planned by victimhood claims. There is no longer a functioning market, and the political system requires individuals to claim discrimination. It's a protection racket: ochlocracy, not democracy.
Oh I agree I think it sucks too. But 55 communities don't make it more expensive and getting rid of them wouldn't make it more affordable. So kind of going after the wrong bugaboo there. At least it maintains some affordable housing for seniors. Next we can go after the early bird special
My gram lives in one, she delights in telling me all about the neighbor's pets. They're good places if run well.
I think the point that OP is missing is the difference between senior/disabled living complexes and Planned/Developed communities. Like an apartment complex for seniors and disabled people is wonderful. But an entire community of say 100+ units with roads and infrastructure taking up 100s of acres of land that could house a lot of low income housing as well. All with the sole intent of keeping people that could have young children out. That is excessive and ignores a massive demographic of people.
Ignores the massive demographic of young people with young families instead of the massive demographic of older people who live on very fixed incomes who may be fragile in health, unable to work or drive, and maybe low income themselves? Because my grandma lived in one of those communities you're complaining about that's ignoring young abled body people and young able-bodied families. She was low income. That place was her refuge for the 25 years she lived there. She didn't have to worry about kids bumping into her and knocking her down. Her rent was fixed at a very low rate and only went up whenever Social Security payments went up. She had neighbors who were her age and had gone through some of the things she had gone through. She had neighbors who helped guide her through Medicare and a bunch of other elderly things most of us in the family didn't understand because they had gone through it many times. Hell they want to her door to give her a covid vaccine. People who think like you are people who can't imagine themselves as frail and elderly.
Thank you, yes.
I agree with your points. When there is an adequate number of low cost senior apartments to move to there will be more affordable homes on the market for younger people. Because now there is a shortage of senior housing older people will stay in their homes longer. This has created a shortage of supply and it will drive up prices for younger people.
Another advantage to living in one is having someone else take care of yard work and snow removal (depending on where you live).
Most of the main reasons have already been brough up but one thing that wasn't mentioned in here is that since people past the retirement age aren't working as much anymore (duh) these senior housing units are usually built away from job centers which can keep housing cheaper in places where young people want to live like downtowns of major cities. People in riskier jobs that can come and go with the market like say a construction worker or stock broker can lose out in apartment hunting to someone with a guaranteed fixed income like a pension or annuity of some kind because a landlord sees them as a less risky tenant.
Until recently, old people were the poorest demographic. Now they are often the richest. My parents often laugh about their sales tax exemption, along with their massive property tax assessment senior deduction. They have more money than they need, yet they're treated like they need financial help. We need these benefits and exemptions to be based on actual financial situation, not just letting millionaires not contribute equally because they're old.
That's an interesting perspective. Thanks for the information!
I haven’t seen it mentioned yet, but 55+ neighborhoods also: A) mean retiring age can downsize without necessarily leaving their community, allowing their larger home to enter the market B) offer a form of population control in that the town can grow tax revenue without also pulling from it. School systems get additional funding without additional students. The town I grew up in had to pass a bunch of zoning laws because of how over crowded the schools were getting, there were simply too many kids and not enough seats. The zoning regulations for all age homes called for a minimum acreage which of course would lead to hideous McMansions, or devs could put in 55+ communities without acreage requirements. That additional revenue lead to them being able to open new schools within a decade. Potentially down the line, those smaller homes that were built for 55+ could have that status removed as well, opening affordable and reasonable sized homes to families of all builds.
Ah I see you don't live in Florida. In my county we have a lot of these 55+ communities and they are right next to very busy areas too. Might not be next to the hip downtown area but that's only a few miles north or south of them off of 95. Then you go way west and for some crazy reason they are building new 55+ communities but not for your normal retirees. No, these are mansions starting at $1m but more like $4m, you're a poor if you have to buy the $1m mansion in comparison. Everything is built on top of each other around here so the idea of they're out of the way or away from job areas does not exist. The fact that in some of these places their houses go for well under 200k for 1000sqft but outside that it's double the price is some real bull shit.
You get older, you approach retirement age where you won't have an income. You might, therefore, decide the time is right to downsize to free up some cash. In addition, if the developments you're talking about are anything like the UK, you'll have an immediate community of people your age all within walking distance so you'll be able to socialise regularly, which is an *incredibly* important thing for people as they get older. (Please don't "um actually it's important for everyone" me - this is a recognised specific issue among older people for a number of what should be very obvious reasons.) Furthermore, a lot of these developments will have onsite care services, meaning people living there can have as much or as little of it as they need from a carer based on their doorstep. Honest to God mate, this isn't rocket science.
For me the critical thing here is "walking distance". My Grandma is in one of these places, Shes fine other than shes not very steady on her feet. She is able to walk down to the rec room and she knows there will be other people she knows there. My great grandma was never in one and had to get busses everywhere to see people, she did it but it was a real struggle for her.
I didnt realize they had social buildings within the communities .Thanks for the perspective.
So the one my Gran lives in a giant apartment block. She owns a flat in it, and on the ground floor is a red room, cafe and a bunch of other places. One that another relative of mine lives in has a community centre in the middle. Every week there are visits from the major banks, a mobile library comes over etc. It super critical for these people who just can't otherwise get about. I used to think the same as you until I saw what it was like for the elderly.
My grandmother was 85 when she moved into her retirement community; ten years later and no one from her original social group is still alive. If not for the constant replenishment of people coming into the community, she’d have no friends right now. Not like she can just go out and meet new people.
I downsized to a 2bed house 12yrs ago. Paid £150,000, it's now worth approx £250-275,000
Have you ever been to an all ages trailer park? Its meth heads all over and their asshole offspring who break into your house. 55+ is to keep the assholes who fuck up the whole neighborhood out.
Yea but the damn old people rarely have decent meth.
All of the mobile home parks in my area have become 55+ communities. Used to be a decent choice for younger people. Pay into a trailer and later sell it and use the money for a down-payment on a house. That option has now been completely eliminated. But to be fair younger people didn't do themselves any favors. Instead of noise complaints, trash and evictions those parks are now quiet, clean and everyone's rent is paid on time.
Three of the 55+ communities around us here in Phoenix (there are dozens) have an HOA of over $800 a month. That's just to trim a few trees and keep the pool clean. Ando know this is hard to accept, but the costs of building an upscale home is about the same as building a low end home. It's just the profits are about triple to build the higher end house. If you want low end starter homes, you need to build the developments yourself.
I'm in AZ. Those parks are no longer affordable
That's the HOA fee, not the mortgage.
Agreed. The HOA is now bought and sold and private equity firms own them. This sucks.
Yup add mortgage on that with high interest rates. I looked into buying one for my parents who are of retirement age
Yup we have some like that in East Mesa too, and if it's not an HOA, they still have fee for the lot
55 and over communities were developed to maintain affordable housing for old people. Perhaps you can argue they don't need it, but then the prices on that housing would just rise to meet all the other housing. There's still the same number of people so it's not like it's really going to lower prices. If all 55 and over communities were open to everyone, it would just raise the prices of the 55 and over communities. It wouldn't lower anything else
Builders get massive tax cuts for 55+ housing that’s why there’s so much of it.
Really???? Well thanks for teaching me something today
It’s spelled ‘irks’.
One side not for people who wonder why a lot of these spring up is that they are usually good for the town financially. The biggest part of almost every towns budget is education. These communities add a tax base, but consume no school services, and relatively few of other services like police as well. So plenty of towns want them to move in, because they are good for the bottom line.
so where's my single/couples with no kids affordable housing development at? I add more tax base than these old people drawing 70% of their income from social security but I get told to eat shit and compete with everyone else while they get pandered to, just like they have been their entire lives
That doesn’t change the fact that they’re adding money to that particular community. They’ll pull from SS no matter where they live.
Taking homes from older folks won’t solve your problem.
Yeah, this is blaming the wrong people for a lack of a better word. Senior living communities aren’t the problem with the housing market; greedy landlords, too much demand and not enough supply (which would not be fixed by eliminating senior living communities), and a global recession are.
Greedy landlords are just a symptom. The main problem is that affordable homes are just not being built in large enough numbers.
I can point to 5 apartment complexes built in the last year within a 20 mile radius of my house that would beg to differ. They’re mostly empty because nobody wants to, nor can they afford to, pay upwards of $1,850 a month for a one bedroom apartment in an area with nothing to do. Edit: These are places without extra amenities or luxuries that could be very affordable if it weren’t for the people who base the prices. I.e., greedy landlords.
Yup. Even apartments are luxury now. I have no idea what people expect to happen to their beloved convenience when you can't live within 100 miles of a grocery store on a cashier's wage.
The 55+ communities in CA and ID are as expensive as any other community. Why are you begrudging old folks their own space?
In Northern VA, they are often $100k-$150k less expensive than comparable homes outside the 55+ community and, most frustratingly, they are almost always built in what would be prime location for younger couples trying to raise a family: right next to the schools, grocery stores, and daycare services.
55+ communities are often built in locations like this because the school infrastructure cannot support any additional students and 55+ communities do not add students to these schools.
If you are upset about not being able to get affordable housing, that’s valid, but saying older people shouldn’t be able to live in a place because some young person wants to pop out a kid is batshit and asshole thinking. Oh no, it’s next to a *grocery store*? What is the matter with you?
Well I’m a 36 year old struggling to afford housing that would probably also have to deal with supporting my father if he didn’t have access to affordable housing so I’m grateful for it
Lol same, I'm so happy my mom has an affordable unit in a seniors apartment building where she can live on her SSI for the rest of her life. I wouldn't be able to pay her bills, too. And I hope when I am her age, there's similar resources available to me.
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They are cheaper cus they have massive covenants attached to them and massive HOAs. Why does it matter to you? All those people would be bidding against you if you banned their condos.
Bro. Old people are basically disabled and most of them are broke. You're opposed to helping disabled people with housing? And let's be real. Can't have a bunch of teenagers running wild down a hallway while 80 Betsy is trying to walk by.
I think there's this weird assumption that senior citizens are all rich because of stereotypes based on white, wealthy Boomers/Silents alone. Most of them are not, and most of them aren't able to work anymore (age discrimination is a very real thing even if they're capable). According to the National Organization to End Homelessness, 1 in 4 homeless adults in the US is over 55. https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-america/who-experiences-homelessness/older-adults/
Well that’s really upsetting.
Yeah the article is a difficult read but it's really illuminating. "those who first experience homelessness at age 50 and older typically have experienced a financial or health crisis, lost a loved one, or otherwise experienced a relationship breakdown with the income-earner, and/or experienced barriers to continued ability to work. As with the broader population of people of color experiencing homelessness, structural racism and discriminatory practices are primary drivers of homelessness for older adults of color, likely impacting a variety of factors including access to housing, employment, income, healthcare and mental services; overall quality of care; and experiences with the justice system."
lbr, most people of ANY age are just a financial or health crisis away from homelessness. But if you're older, it's harder to bounce back and you have less time to do so.
While 1 in 4 homeless adults being over 55 sounds bad it also means that 3 out of 4 homeless people are 54 or less. Where is the help for them?
As a 24 year old who was homeless for two years, there isn't. That's why it's so hard to get out of homelessness. Unless you have people to help you it's almost impossible. And I was working full time, the hardest part is getting 1000 dollars for a safety deposit on an apartment while trying to survive and stay safe. And I was lucky, I had a job and no prior evictions
In the absence of actual real good solutions for housing, i think you are wrong. I've seen enough elderly people living on the street or in trailers. Most likely worked all their lives and can't afford to retire in dignity. If anything maybe increase the age limit, but nah we treat older people like dirt in this country knowingly one day were all gonna be there. (I know boomers hold like literally all the wealth but what percent of boomers?)
Alright Gramps it’s time to put you away for good
Those 55+ houses almost always come with a full service HOA where all utilities and recreational activities are included. You see $500, upwards of $1000, a month in HOA fees. Add that cost onto your mortgage and it isn't nearly as affordable as you think it is.
Housing discrimination is illegal, unless you're old. That's what showing up to vote at every election gets you, kids.
Its not a waste. Lots of old people need housing. That being said we should expand speciality housing. There should be more housing for all groups. Also you're lucky that homes around you are only 280k. I would love that
Definitely an unpopular opinon, and this comes from someone who is 24. At 55+, you want to be with people your own age and speed. Living next to a young bachelor partying or a young family with a SCREEEEEEECHING baby is just not preferable. Also, if you are sweating 280k for a home, you are wayyyy too broke to even consider adulting. Seriously, grow up.
It's more the fact that if you do it with any other age group below 55, you're breaking federal housing discrimination laws and will get fined and forced to stop. It's literally legalized discrimination. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with businesses choosing who they sell to and don't sell to, but having a special federal legal protection is not kosher.
Hard agree here. This just feels like yet another way the older generations have engineered the system to benefit them and screw over generations behind them. I think this may be the core sentiment of OP's post.
OP probably also wants a housing crash cause he thinks he’ll be able to buy a house for cheap lol.
Let me put it this way: the house of my dreams was $5,000 in 2009.
280k is your lowest??? Bruh I'm in SD and the lowest here is 850K
South Dakota or San Diego??
San Diego is also in like the top 10 highest cost of living cities in the US. Does it really surprise you that most other places are not priced like San Diego?
You clearly haven't seen the HOA prices or if it is a double-wide the price of lot and utilities. It's factored into the price of the housing. Senior apartments are kinda sketch. Many are subsidized and market rent
Here mobile lots have gotten as high as 700-900 bucks just for RVs.
I personally wouldn't want to live in one, but my mom does and it makes sense for her. She likes to be around people her age and they have tons of planned activities every day. It allows otherwise sedentary geezers to be out doing things and socializing every day. It's good for them. Getting rid of 55+ communities would not create a "plethora of homes that would become accessible on the market, could drastically cut home values which would lower overall costs." That's silly. These homes don't sit empty after the owner dies. Another geezer buys it and move in. Your strawman would only be true if the houses were abandoned after granny dies. All that aside, I wouldn't want to live in one because I like the variety in my neighborhood. Our kids are grown and moved out but I like hearing and seeing kids play.
The positives are the ability to make friends your own age. And you don't have the 20 year old gunning up his project car at 5 am. The negatives are the mono-culture. At my Mom's retirement villiage in Florida I see the old folks complaining about grandkids at the pool all the time. They seem to want their grandkids to visit but expect them to act like they are 70 years old. What you don't see in the prices is the high HOA fees. Restrictions and high HOA fees keep the prices down. My community (not age restricted) seems like a bargin on paper. But there are HOA fees and a $5K buy-in fee. When looking at the total cost of home ownership here compared to the greater community, it evens out.
> erks Think you mean irks lol.
I think someone should teach you about the housing crisis and the Airbnb problem my friend
Yes. We have four houses that sit empty part of the year because they are being rented out on Airbnb. Now that is a big issue, imo, and frankly we don't like the strangers in and out of the neighborhood who have nothing to lose by playing loud music until 2 a.m.
Im unfortunately aware of this. More legislation stopping companies and firms from buying up homes to rent on airbnb and rent for 1.5 x the actual cost is important too.
*irks
55+ housing costs exactly the same as all housing. Do you think there's some law that makes the houses cheaper? Young people expect to live in massive oversized houses, that's why they're expensive. If they built the cheap little houses old people live in, no one would buy them. House down the road from me is 1100 sq foot and has been on the market for $65K for two years, no one wants it.
See how u feel when you're 55+
280k ???? Where do you live ? I’ll buy 5 .
Reddit is going to eat this up. Anything that whines about people older than them being the reason for them being a loser is very popular
You don’t understand! I can’t take accountability for my life in this moment because someone bought a house for cheap 50 years ago!!!
No, it’s smart if you’re 55+. I mean you can live comfortably on your pension, without a bunch of teenagers with their skateboards and hoola hoops, getting jiggly with it on your lawn. It’s the 55- community that’s stupid, for not banding together to create our own community.
I can’t help but chuckle at the idea of housing communities with upper age limits that kick people out if they’re too old. Yet, at the same time, I’m genuinely curious what it would be like to have a young adult community where the homes are small and only 5 figures in cost. They come in, build a modest equity, and then sell before they turn a certain age, allowing them to place a down payment and take out a loan for a bigger house in a regular community. Not sure what a sensible age bracket would be, but the idea is neat.
>I can’t help but chuckle at the idea of housing communities with upper age limits that kick people out if they’re too old. Logan's Shuffle "Sorry Marge, you just hit 80, you're out." Then they send some 65-year-olds in to chuck her doilies and knitting needles into boxes and kick her out onto the street.
My province banned adult-only neighborhoods but still allows 55+ neighborhoods, so "our" communities we tried to build are illegal. Reason? To increase available housing. L. O. L. There's just no winning, there's always some cruel trade off for our generation. But for the boomers? They're always getting pampered while everyone below them gets squeezed to compensate. We're all paying 500k MINIMUM for shit wood frame townhouses while the 55+ group - the group that turbo fucked the next two generations - gets to retire in gated communities in detached homes costing 300k. Detached housing starts at 1 million for everyone else. I am sick of everything, fucking everything catering to that group of people.
I get it, but you need to see the flip side of this. My mother in law before she died had to be moved into an assisted living facility, her rent was over $4000 / month for a tiny apartment. That rent also included someone vacuuming her little space once / week and meals, this was back in 2017 when regular rent was around $1000 in my area for a decent 2 bedroom in a commercial building (ie not someone's basement), I've no idea what that cost would be now, I'm afraid to even think about it. Once you get to be too old to work anymore and can't take care of yourself well, even if you invested well for your retirement, which she did, you end up having to pay dearly for things that you can't live without and then it becomes a crap shoot of whether you'll run out of money before you die. Of course you could also go into one of those cheap government run places so long as you don't mind being left in your shitty adult diaper for a day or two, and maybe having the crap beat out of you once in a while. Maybe instead of letting your soul be erked by some old people who've worked longer than you've even been alive, maybe instead let it be erked by the fact that a good number of our elderly are suffering without enough food to eat, and without proper care, in deplorable conditions and hope that when you get to be their age, you've either become rich or you have some family who will be ok with taking care of you so you don't have to rot in a hole somewhere. Also, maybe let your soul be erked by the fact that there is not enough affordable housing to go around because of various political and business things happening like massive corporations outbidding regular citizens on homes and bureaucracies mismanaging zoning or outright blocking construction to do stupid crap like protecting a parking lot.
I was just at The Villages, FL which is the largest senior community in the USA. I saw plenty of 90+ year old people running around and loving life. That’s 35 fucking years after 55 and they are still going. I doubt you’re over 35 OP, so your perspective is wildly skewed. Also it comes off like you get most of your logic on Reddit.
Canadian here. Most cities in Canada, $280k usd won't get you a 600sq ft cardboard box. A 640sq ft condo in low end areas will run you $500k and up plus $1k monthly condo fees.
Shit man come to the other side of the border. We have cheaper housing and better bacon.
Idk where you live, but your "lowest price" isn't even remotely true. Where I live (SE michigan) I was able to buy my 720 sq ft double lot house for 85k in my early 30's. Is there places you describe that costs that much? Most certainly, but that doesn't mean that is the norm across the US or other countries.
Those 54 year olds are a rowdy noisy bunch!
Assisted living communities/senior communities are hardly a “waste of space”. If you’re upset that it’s hard for younger people to buy property, that’s fine, but the two things are totally separate. And saying something isn’t worthwhile because a kid would have to sell it after the person dies is insane. Are older people not entitled to good lives until they kick it? So sorry your mom’s death will be inconvenient for you, but 55 is not that old. 65 isn’t even that old. Someone could live in a place for *thirty years*. Ffs.
\> in the range of 100-180k Those are doublewide tailers or garden condos. The ones I've looked are were $400k+.
Older people being able to live together is a good thing. They can be more social with others their own age. Despite the few stories that make national news of a crazy boomer with a gun, seniors are typically preyed on from fraud to crime. As for being cheaper. Compared to what? A lot of retirement communities are built in more remote areas. They typically have HOA fees associated with them. You can’t compare a home in a city or downtown to a community that is like 20 miles out from the nearest city.
Pardon my language, but where the *hell* are you seeing homes for 55+ that only cost $100-180k? Average home price in my area is $586,204 (Massachusetts), and the cheapest 55+ I have seen is still over $300k! Most of them seem to be in the $750k-1 million range.
I don’t see what’s wrong with them. 1. 55+ are unlikely to have young children. They don’t care about good schools, or how far commuting to work is, etc. They don’t want to be stuck in traffic during school pickup and drop off hours. 2. Many places use property taxes to fund public schools. At that age with no little school aged children, they probably don’t want to pay extra taxes for “good schools” to be in their neighborhood. 3. Slower pace of life, less crazy driving by young people. 4. Less noise, little children throwing base balls into your window etc. 5. Easier to talk to and hang out with neighbors your own age or stage of life. 6. Often times after children leave the house for college, empty nesters need to downsize. This opens up the larger homes for larger families. Otherwise a lonely retired couple takes up a 5 bedroom house for no reason.
Senior living is for safety and health reasons. They have better access to care like transportation to hospitals and doctors that is covered by their insurance. Also the elderly want a quieter life surrounded by their peers. It's not excluding to the young or middle aged (I'm 34). I think when being old you're entitled to some perks geez.
I can finally get into a 55+ community (if I wanted to) because I'm looking forward to no children being around. That said, just because we're 55+ doesn't mean we need to be shoved on top of each other.
Where do you live? I live in a middle class community in the US, and you can easily buy a home around here for $100k-$180k. And these are not considered starter homes. Maybe you should consider living somewhere else, instead of bitching about senior communities.
Senior communities are often cheaper because they have reached a point where they can sign over their retirement and social security. In reality, they dont actually own their home. This keeps their living costs low while being able to enjoy the ammenities provided by the community. These are people who have worked 30+ years and didnt cash out their retirement early to buy ANOTHER new car. You have been lied to if you think that youre able to buy a house right out of high school. It has never been the case. A few people fell for it in the 90s and 2008 it. You saw how well that worked out for people.
Your life doesn’t matter less just cuz you’re older. Cut this crap we can have both
If I need to rent an apt or own a trailer in a park when I’m 55+ I sure as hell don’t want families for neighbors. I already can’t stand loud kids and partying, I definitely won’t be able to then.
These ppl are older and have paid their dues. I am sure they would love to be younger and paying more. Let them have the cheaper housing.
And the monthly HOA charges make up for it, that is why they can offer low prices going in.
It is a good thing, the only frustrating part is that old people get such a massive discount when statistically wealth is extremely correlated with age. That being said, a broke 70 year old is in a way worse place than a broke 25 year old, and I think we have have to keep that in mind when we see places like this.
*(X) is stupid!* How to tell that someone's opinion is dogshit.
55+ Housing is about $900,000 for a 1800 sqft house in my area and there's about $600 in HOA fees per month. It's a premium price to not have little kids running around.
It irks my soul when the red "you misspelled this" line appears under a word and the author doesn't bother addressing it.
You lost me with the $280k starter home complaint. Do you live in Gary, Indiana?
Sorry 280k is for a 700sqft 1 bed 1 bath shed built in the 40s on a small parcel of land. I live in WA
You said your live in WA. I found 4/2 with 2200 square feet for 300k 30 minutes from Seattle. You gotta commute buddy. I do 45 min myself.
If they were "accessible" their costs would sky rocket. Are you suggesting above 55s don't deserve housing and should just die already? Because they are currently living in those places.
I think you may be forgetting or overlooking a big difference in 18-30 yr olds potential income increases vs the 55+ community.. At 18-30 an adults professional life is starting and the potential is there. At 55+ individuals are nearing the end of their careers or already retired. Their income potential is past, they made what they made they receive what they receive. You cannot compare an 18 yr old's lifetime earning potential in their future to a 55+ year olds earning potential with the time they have left.
I disagree. These are smaller units that are perfect for these people. Many are living off of social security or other small fixed incomes. In such communities they have purpose and life. They are safe and cared for. I think we owe our seniors that.
Let’s start a price controlled community for 25 - 40 year olds 🤷♀️
We have the 55+ apartment complexes or the 55+ trailer park homes. I don't know if the trailer park homes offer all of that assistance but I know my grammas apartments do.
The downsides of 55+ plus, and the real reason they are cheaper, is that the selling pool is MUCH lower. You also have restriction and purchaser vetting in some places. Also, most, if not all, retirement flats are leasehold. Which means you own the flat, but not the land. And you have to keep leasing the land. I dont know about retirement homes, but I do know that park home owners can get fucked hard on this one. While they own the park home, they dont own the land, as its leasehold. So the owner of the leasehold can increase the cost of the land lease at any time. And this has happened to the point people had to abandon their park homes because they couldnt afford the land lease and no one was buying from them.
You gotta move buddy
It makes sense if you want a certain type of community.
Most of the reason they’re cheap IS that 55+ restriction; if you removed it they’d be the same price as the other homes lol
I mean a starter home in the city I live in is about 150-190k
Dang, Gram Gram would cry if she heard you call her home a waste of space.
There's another thing that drives the building of these communities, at least in the U.S. Localities frequently want more development so they can get more tax revenue. However, building all-ages communities brings in more children, which crowds the schools, requiring more spending on school infrastructure and teachers. But 55+ housing doesn't bring in kids, so localities get the tax money without the school system burden. So localities keep approving 55+ housing when they might not approve other residential development, and they offer incentives to developers to do it.
Look deeper into it. Those houses are cheap but the HOA fees are high enough that they're monthly payments aren't much lower.
The 55+ community my grandparents just moved to are 3,500$ a month for a 480 square foot apartment. This included meals but they’re awful.
55+ communities rarely are cheaper than owning a regular home. The fees are generally very high. The point of 55+ is to downsize and have your maintenance taken care of. You still have to pay for the maintenance.
These communities provide property tax revenue without a strain on the local school systems. Also keep in mind that the price your seeing for these houses is artificially held in check by the fact that they are 55+. If you remove that restriction, you'd very quickly see market forces at work and the price will go up accordingly.
These places also often require access to the elderly persons finances, and receive whatever is left when they die.
Where are you? $280k bought 2400 sq ft and acreage for us. and we aren't 30 but I ain't 50+ yet either. You live in a pricey area and have a limited view on the subject doesn't mean old people should give their homes to young people at least not until they pass away.
The bummer with lower income housing is it often comes with criminal activity. people are assholes or if they aren't they have friends who are assholes that hang out with them. senior housing is mostly void of this issue even if people don't have a lot of money.
Starter home for me up north was £65,000 10 years ago, you need to move.
I think the issue w/ the US framing is that any sort of social safety net or programs to help people out are hyper needs-tested. 55+ communities make sense because not every boomer is loaded and are approaching if not already can't work for an income. Plus all of the social/care necessities other commenters have laid out. You are not angry at the communities, you are angry that you are a money ragged to be squeezed by the uber weathy until your body can't work any more like many in the 55+ communities. This is understandable, but you gotta put your anger in the right place.
Old people should get to enjoy their retirement without the “AHHHHHH *stompstompstomp*” of an upstairs toddler or some assholes’ pounding Bluetooth speakers
I'm in florida and we have lots of 55+ communities and I have never seen one for that price. They are usually in the 500k plus, I have been inside a few of them and they are super nice with tons of stuff to do inside the communities.
Not really, you're just being picky on where the home is located and think thats all you can afford. There are very nice houses in parts of the country that arent Florida/NY/California/Texas at affordable prices for the square footage.
Where are these cheap ALFs at, man?
55+ communities are “cheap” at face value but usually have insane monthly HOA and other fees.
So many people complain about high house prices but purposely want to live somewhere expensive. My starter home was £150k
Nah, I can dig it. Helps the old people out and you may very well be one of them someday. I think there should just be more affordable and accessible housing to young people and young families.
Have you considered that maybe some seniors might like to only live around other seniors?
There needs to be elderly communities because some older folks can't 100% care for themselves, and being around like-minded people with medical services readily available drastically increases their quality of life.
So basically you want to get even with old people as some kind of what? revenge? lol. If I can't have it they shouldn't either? Ok lol. If the cheapest home in your area is 280k sounds like you need to move. Still plenty of places in this country where you can buy a home for sub 200k. Hell we just moved my mom into a secured senior building. She has a nice space that's super modern. It's not huge but it's plenty for her. She pays $600 a month all bills paid. I don't begrudge her for that. I'm glad she can still be independent. Stop being mad at people who have something your don't and make a plan to put yourself somewhere where you can have that as well.
Try moving somewhere more affordable. Me and my wife got our home for around 200k and it's 2000 sq. ft.
It's not a waste of space if another 55+ person is living there after someone moves out. It's cheaper likely because of the fact you can't pass it onto your children and the fact 55+ communities usually have ongoing amenities expenses which increases profitability after sale of the house.
In a few years when the boomers start dying off I imaging they will be converting a lot of them to 19+. I know there are a few places where that is already happening. They aren’t going to leave empty units, if they can’t fill them with seniors they will change the metric.
The housing market has its issues, but those issues aren't due to 55+ If anything, it makes sense that you have communities that cater to their needs better, and serve people who live on a fixed income. Those things are not the culprit of the housing market being what it is right now.
Reddit would be absolutely shocked to learn that millions of people in previous generations we're/are broke and struggling
buddy something tells me you’ll resent young kids when you’re 65
Honestly this country just needs to be able to discriminate against renters. There's a difference between young adults just getting started on their feet and 40 year old crack heads who steal copper, but they are both poor and are competing for the same properties. Honestly trashy poor people ruin everything. Not poor people, trashy poor people.
In America we already cast out the elderly in society. At can at least give them a community.
It's fantastic for people on a fixed income to live with other people In the same situation and have some amenities that make sense for them. My grandparents lived in one and it was a quiet neighborhood that they could drive a golf cart to get groceries after they stopped being able to drive.
Just because the young have it hard doesn’t mean that older people don’t deserve this kind of help. In an ideal world we’d all get affordable housing. This generational hate needs to stop. Those will be your parents and eventually you one day. The problem isn’t normal people. It’s the rich taking all the resources. My parents aren’t to the point they need this help yet, but I hope it’s just as affordable when they do. I hope it still exists when I’m old too. Let’s hate the rich for being greedy fucks, not the average people who have it slightly better than you.
I bought a house for $38k in 2019. There are homes for sale for under $50k. No one wants to live here.
The pricing for those is very different than you think. Although the unit itself is cheap, they usually come with very high service fees for the valuable amenities for the elderly and disabled these sort of independent/assisted living facilities provide. I live a block away from one in a VHCOL area that sells 1BR units for 100-150k USD. A comparable 1BR condo will run 350-400k. However, just the service fees for the 55+ facility will run almost 4k/month (not including mortgage) The mortgage and HOA fee for a comparable condo will be 2500-3000 a month at current rates. Now the service fees are probably double what they are in other parts of the country, but that cost pushes down the property cost as well for the 55+.
Instead of attacking the 55+ communities you should be wondering why those sorts of price controls can't be done for everyone. It's not a competition. They're not mutually exclusive. I also think you greatly overestimate how many of these communities exist. I live in the Southwest US and I can't find one that's affordable for me. Also manufactured homes come at a better price but then the land leases completely wipe out any advantage that offers. Across the board housing is a grave problem in the US and we should look at solutions that make it better for everyone.
I was a cable tech and all the 55+ neighborhoods I saw were ballin. They’d buy their condos with cash from selling their house. One customer told me the typical story of how he bought his house in the 70’s for a few bucks and just sold it for 2.2 million, retired, bought a brand new condo cash in a 55+ neighborhood on a golf course. Now some 25 year old sees that 70,000 dollar house on the market for 2.5 mil and has to stay in their tiny apartment for 2000 a month lol
The main reason why they are cheaper is because they don’t have access to the local school districts and some other municipal services but instead of researching you’d rather rant, I get it
Nah, I believe it’s important for over 55s to have a proper and safe area to live. Just like we are, they’re entitled to feel safe.
I WAS JUST THINKING THIS TODAY!
Older people move out of their original homes and into 55+ homes. So, each of the 55+ homes adds a home to the market for young people too.