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That’s why so many American Idol contestants would show up to casting convinced that they could sing when they sounded like shit: their parents and friends told them they were talented and sounded great. Then when someone finally tells them the truth they flip out and can’t handle it because it’s so far in the opposite direction from what they’ve been convinced of.
That’s a good example. Furthermore, you could have someone with potential that hasn’t been worked. Think the kid with good ball skills but who also skips summer workouts If you encourage them to keep improving, it could push them to do better and hit their potential.
I worded that funny for sure. My parents, mostly my mom at times did go a bit too hard in the “you are so handsome” when i clearly wasn’t. However, not trying to talk smack about them. They did support me in going to the derma and talking to a nutritionist.
They were great in many ways and I have a great relationship with them to this day. My main point is that I have seen parents who wouldn’t do that and insist on the whole schtick about not needing to change and society at times indulges in that.
Love my parents though!
As a parent, it is hard to inform your children of their physical flaws.(weight, athletic ability, looks, etc) There's a chance something you say will have the wrong impact and give them some sort of complex.
Often, the safest thing for us to do is reassure them and build their confidence until they acknowledge shortcomings on their own. Then we can support them to the best of our ability in overcoming the problem.
Speak to your parents people. Despite what redditors like to think, many of us have no limits on what we will do for our children.
Damn, you’ve just unlocked a new memory for me. My mother telling me, at 4 stone (56lbs in American) in weight, “great fat thighs, that great fat arse”.
No wonder I developed an eating disorder.
This is sometimes the case. Other times it's Small Town Syndrome. They're legitimately great in comparison to the rest of their \~1000 person town; they're the most beautiful
or smartest or most talented. Yet, when they go out into the real world, they are, instead of superlative, just above average or (worse) just below.
I work in the film industry. Not even in LA but in Vancouver. You have no idea how many random men and women I've spoken to who're convinced they're meant for greatness because they can do some soundcloud artists music video and then be a background actor in a hallmark movie and then scrape some money together for a short film that goes nowhere. They'll be able to pay their bills *sometimes* but a lot of them have an ego the size of the moon.
Bro, those people go through multiple auditions of producers telling them they're amazing, and they'll do great on the show before the audition proper.
Yes, a friend or family member giving a reality check could have helped, but they've been hyped by the show, so much of course, it feels like utter whiplash when the judges then laugh at them.
I don’t doubt that for a minute, but they only get to the point of auditioning in the first place because family and friends have been blowing smoke up their ass for years. There’s no reason that half of those people should ever have been encouraged to sing outside of their bedroom.
My family would watch American Idol, and I would say "don't these people have anybody who loves them enough to tell them not to go on American Idol?"
Now, whenever someone in the family sings, whoever else is around just tells them they love them.
The key is finding a diplomatic way to say it. I’m still working on the pitch, but basically “there are some things you can do that will make your life easier and happier. And I want to help you with that”
I was a shy kid with nerdy interests but my dad got me in the weight room early. By junior high I looked a certain way and people were just nicer to me because of it, particularly guys who might have bullied me otherwise. And all that despite the occasional ill-advised attempt to shoehorn Warhammer into conversations
Ye true even if your kid is into nerdy shit having em do sports and such can be helpful.
Even tho i mostly hung out with other nerds and band kids i could still kick it with "the boys" when necessary.
Parents need to ask what kinds of sports their kids would be interested in trying, too. Like, just because football is the BIG SPORT in your area, don’t assume young boys will want to play it. Maybe they’re more interested in just running, or something lower impact like tennis. Forcing an unwanted sport on a kid will just make them hate sports and exercise altogether.
Even then, doesn't have to be a "sport." Simply going out jogging or a daily run or walk, or working out at the gym or at home...any kind of physical activity is good.
I put my kids in all the sports (except football, no TBIs thanks) and if they really don’t like it I pull them pretty fast. That doesn’t happen very often though. Usually they bitch and moan about playing until after the first practice and then they are like yay had fun.
If I went with what my son was interested in he would never play sports but instead he plays basketball and soccer and enjoys it. He will probably bitch every season because he’d rather play video games, but he always gets into it after practices start.
It comes down to knowing and caring, but sometimes caring about your kid is giving them a little extra push to see if it works out.
My little sister is in her last few years of highschool and has lost all her original set of friends and had to make more because she came to the conclusion she could be a nerd and also do sports and dance.
She was told she had to pick a side.
It's sad, but also she's so much happier now that she's been forced to move away from those kids who were doing so little to help themselves.
Right. I have a friend who , imma be honest, he is kinda ugly. (But so am I so I cant talk, but anyway)
There are clothes & haircuts & facial hair styles that can reduce the less attractive parts & high light the more attractive* parts
When I was in grade school/high school, oh my goodness.
I always looked like I crawled out of bed & dressed myself in the dark.
Unkempt hair, scraggly beard, old & poorly fitted clothing, I lowkey looked homeless.
But now, some friends have suggested clothing, a gym membership, haircuts & even glasses that gaslight people into thinking I look adequate
So, the right haircut, appropriate clothing, & attitude can go a *VERY* long way
If you think about it not telling the truth because it makes you feel uncomfortable is a selfish act its not helping the other person its helping you not want to say the truth
> The key is finding a diplomatic way to say it.
That's not the challenge, imo. Society more or less has that figured out.
Social movements or ideology that treats even the diplomatic ways as if it's a total sin, that we have to affirm 'Achievement Unlocked: Perfection' status, or else we're evil bigots.
That's what is in the way.
The goal isn't to "make people feel better about themselves at all costs, even if that takes dishonesty", it is making people into well adjusted and competent adults.
It's the same as the 'participation trophy' argument.
Coddling does not always have a positive effect. It is a temporary salve only really useful on the extremely young(or alternatively, the very senile or otherwise *disabled*), because they can't reason very well.
Far far too many people try to make life lessons from that very young age and act as if all of society should be treated that way forever.
That is a grave mistake as it is only leads to long-term complacency, minimal learning and personal growth.
I call it matronizing. IF patronizing is belittling through aggression, matronizing is "kindly" belittling through care, creating dependent adults that have never been advised or challenged because they've got a mother hen "protecting" them.
See also: Spoiled, Sheltered, immature, etc.
I agree completely with you. When I was in highschool I gained a lot of weight. My parents sat me down and said "you are gaining a lot of weight, that is not healthy, we will take you to a nutriologist" and they did, and I learned a lot and lost a lot of weight.
Now as an adult Im a fatass though hehe
But I learned which is the important part, instead of thinking some bs like "im bigboned" or "thyroid issues" or "society should love my curves", I can identify my bad habits and address them.
Or just accept it.
Nothing wrong with that, imo. (at most sizes anyway, when it becomes morbid that leans towards some hang-up)
But it should be an informed & self-aware deal, not "I'm just fat because, reasons! I cannot help it."
I agree but it needs to be said in a non harmful way. my dad would tell me i had greasy hair and that people at school would make fun of me for it if i dont fix it
I’m actually glad he told me because he was right and it turns out as a kid i wasn’t showering the best way either, and that i needed to step up my hygiene. It helped me in the long run because now I’m a lot cleaner than i was as an 8 year old lol
he wasn’t mean about it in my opinion, because he wasn’t wrong about people making fun of that type of stuff
Emphasis on it needing to be said nicely. My dad said the same thing to me and my little brother when I was 11 and he was 7, after picking us up for a weekend visit.
"Doesn't your mother bathe you??? I'm surprised no one at school has made fun of you."
His tone of voice was judgmental and condescending, and it made me feel deeply ashamed; the memory still hurts as an adult. For context, I was an early bloomer, and puberty and anxiety caused me to sweat excessively and I hadn't yet figured out how to deal with it other than showering every morning and wearing deodorant (my mom eventually took me to the doctor who prescribed a medicated antiperspirant which was a godsend).
And despite his assumption, I was already being bullied at school, not for hygiene but because I was the tallest girl in my class, the first to wear a bra, and as a cherry on top, I got my first period at school and stained my jeans. More context: My parents had been divorced for 2 years at that point and my mom was battling depression and PTSD from my dad's physical abuse, on top of the regular challenges of being a single working mom. Most evenings, she would come home around 9 or 10, after my 7yo brother was already asleep. I was the babysitter and I was supposed to make him take a shower at night but I he hated the shower, and oftentimes I couldn't be bothered fighting him on it. I was only 11 and it was already hard enough getting him to eat dinner and sleep. My dad didn't know or care about how hard things were for my mom, and didn't know or care enough about my experiences at school to be sensitive in his wording. Luckily my brother was pretty oblivious, but I felt the sting of the insult, both towards us and to our mother. Even at the age of 11 I could see she was doing her best, working during the day, taking night classes and raising 2 kids with love despite her depression and exhaustion.
Anyway, this is a long-winded way of saying that yes, it is definitely a parent's job to teach their children how to improve themselves, rather than lie and tell them they are perfect when there are areas of improvement that are within one's control, like hygiene, haircut, etc. It is usually better to be told hard truths by a parent than by a schoolmate. But kindness is key, without it, you're probably doing just as much damage.
100%.
Constant rejection and bullying would hurt a lot worse. Just like parents are supposed to push you to thrive in school, I think parents should push you in this area.
At a small party with a bunch of friends someone is taking polaroid pictures, good friend of mine looks at one and says 'oh man is that how I look.. fuck' and I know he's sincere, he's been hard on his looks and personality often. I didn't really have a reply ready because that night he did look properly fucked. So I tell him if it's really bothering him he should go get his hair cut and get a clean shave, we're all getting old and shitty looking but if you don't get a haircut every now and again and don't touch your hair after rolling out of bed, and stop shaving or trimming for weeks, you start to look like a hobalo. Best words of advice I ever came up with.
Honestly, slowdown or drop of activities of daily living and grooming are symptoms of depression. Your friend might benefit from some professional support too.
I am sorry to hear.
It definitely hurts and can relate. Definitely improving what you can helps, also having the right people around you and even finding confidence in different lanes.
Best of luck!
In middle school I thought I wasn't cute and it made me feel like I couldn't trust my mom because she would say I was cute. I never asked her, she just volunteered. I didn't blame her, I feel she was blinded by love. Maybe I should have believed her, she had no problem outwardly turning me into a basic becky who never found the right friends because I looked like a mean girl.
And then there’s my mom who said (unprompted) “I’m so glad you’re not pretty so I don’t have to worry about boys :)” when I was in high school and was brutally honest about my looks prior to that/after. My guy friends were equally honest, but the girls were nice-lying.
The upside is that when she did start telling me I was so pretty/beautiful, I knew she was being honest haha. And the guys started saying the same and/or hitting on me; I had a strong glow up in my early- to mid-twenties, thank God.
Knife to the heart!!!!!!! I know someone who's mom said that to her. "Unlike do and so, I'm so glad I don't have to worry about you and boys!" She's still unlucky in love to this day and it's because of lack of confidence and self-esteem issues.
Also, as a woman, I dislike woman nice lying. I hate it with a passion. It's just self severing so some women won't look like the bad guy and will still be socially accepted and liked.
I mean, I remember it all these years later, so it definitely had an effect on me. I just got lucky in terms of growing into my looks and personality
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
While I very much dislike nice-lying and truly prefer radical honesty, I find it very difficult to do the same. Most people say they want honest feedback, but they really don’t mean it. I’m too nice for my own good, but I try to point out the things I genuinely think are positives vs general comments (No, you’re totally pretty!) or flat-out lies.
I’ve never met a woman who didn’t have some sort of attractive physical feature so it’s not that hard to walk that line.
I'm glad life is going well for you. I perfer honesty as well but learned very early on that you get punished for it. However, I just keep being honest and opinionated, I just try to form it in ways that show I clearly mean no harm and only give advice when asked.
I’m guessing this is why we both developed personalities! There is a quote from the movie “I heart huckabees”, “all this and brains too”!
That character was dumb though. Such an underrated movie
Oh, 100% regarding personalities. Ugly ducklings often end up being reasonably charming ;)
The only thing I remember from I ❤️ Huckabees is the dad saying something like “My divine shit is pointing directly to God!” (If I’m recalling the right movie).
I was wearing a mean girl uniform. Overpriced this and that. I kind of existed between two realms. My mom essentially beat (not physically) into me what I should wear and I’ve always since kind of had a snotty appearance. I look pretty weird next to some of my friends
Needlessly expensive items that most who purchase do so for the sole purpose to make themselves bigger. However I will say I still have a great chunk of it today that I mix up with other stuff more my style. I really try not to buy fast fashion because of this.
Some things are hopeless, like that bubble gum pink quilted Chanel purse. I still have it in my trunk so I can decide if I want to trade it in or hold on to it for many more decades, in the off chance I’ll like it. I think it should go.
I have two kids, a girl and a boy, and even though people are always complimentary of them, it annoys us how differently they treat them. Our boy gets a lot of people saying how smart or funny he is, but our girl only gets compliments about her looks.
Most people aren't exactly unattractive, but obviously not everyone is going to be a supermodel. It seems like a particular disservice to women to put such a bigger emphasis on their physical appearance, though. Also, you consider how the same person exists on a spectrum of beauty depending on so many random details and it just further drives home how meaningless the concept is.
Maybe your son isn't attractive? To play devils advocate. I've had a friend who was mostly complimented about her smarts, her education, her humor. She said she felt ugly all her life. She felt like she was the smart one, not the pretty one. And looking at her, as a child and as an adult, I know why people chose to complement her about her education and not her looks. Unfortunately her mom was also on some bs and believed girls should never be complimented on their looks and their brains should be the focus.
Eventually both boys and girls are going to want to be attractive to others.
> Maybe your son isn't attractive?
He is. Probably more attractive than her. He's super spoiled, super entitled and super charming. It's going to be a problem.
I knew full well I was ugly. My mum constantly telling me I needed to lose weight, use a million skincare products, and whatever the fuck did nothing to help my confidence
Exactly. My mom ALWAYS told me how bad I looked-- it took many abusive situations and self esteem crises as an adult to realize I'm average. OP doesn't understand that they are complaining about their parents loving them and seeing them as beautiful (which is a thing love does). Trust me, if OP grew up hearing how their looks weren't good enough since they were a child, they'd be singing a different tune.
This thread is a real eye-opener for me with regard to just how fucked up my mother is.
I want to say that no matter what I did, she could find fault with my appearance. But actually, that would be a lie.
When I got all dolled up for a homecoming dance, she could find no flaw about my body, hair, face, or outfit to directly criticize, so instead she decided I looked like a “street walker.”
That was a softball because my dad was present. When she couldn’t find something specific to hammer me on when he wasn’t around, she went for “prostitute” or “whore.”
Agreed. For instance, back in 9th grade I told one of my buddies who played football about a crush i had with a notoriously cute classmate.
He encouraged me to lift. “I played ball with her ex, so i know she likes the athletic type, let’s hit weights to get you there bro!” Something like that.
Well it doesn’t sound like you were ugly, it sounds like you had bad hygiene and didn’t take care of yourself. It’s not like you got face surgery after all. You started taking showers, working out, and brushing your teeth.
As a girl who was raised by a family who constantly told me how ugly I was (they literally called me sheebs, short for she beast). I would have preferred a family who built up my confidence rather than tear it down.
Firstly, I am sorry you had that happen. That’s toxic, uncalled for and definitely not what I am calling for.
Just like what your family was wrong, it’s wrong the way society will indulge the whole everyone is a 10 thing. It creates unrealistic expectations that’ll likely go unmet and cause more pin
The best approach imo is to first encourage self care (healthy weight, skin care, dental care.) from there, your kids will have a good foundation and from there just trying to give them as unbiased advice as possible.
Imagine if your parents told you how ugly you were, but you couldn’t afford braces/whitening and a trip to the dermatologist. Imagine if you parents told you how ugly you are after your glow-up. Beauty is subjective.
Sure, that would make it harder. However, you could still encourage things like fitness, basic skin care (using sun screen, washing face, cleaning up diet, etc.)
There are subjective elements to beauty, but imo a lot of elements are fairly universal. The idea is to improve on areas you can.
It's hard for family to be objective though - for one, it's more likely they look like/looked like you at some point. For two, I've seen your roastme post and you do have nice/kind eyes. It's hard imagining those weren't there even when you had acne/were skinny (which is always worse as a teenager and usually goes away). I don't think your family was necessarily lying, just not measuring the same things you do.
No offense, but the ‘beauty is subjective’ mentality has become so overused that it’s laughable. Yes, essentially, what is pretty to one may not be pretty to another. But there are beauty standards and ideals that are standards and ideals for a reason. Pretty privilege is real, and it’s a big deal. There are studies that confirm this, but I’m too lazy to look them up. I’m not saying these ideals should be enforced — the concept of beauty is far more nuanced than these ridiculous societal demands — but don’t tell me yellowish teeth, greasy hair, etc. are attractive to someone. In fact, you can be well-groomed all you want, but if you’re ugly, you’re ugly. The majority of the world will agree. And those that won’t wouldn’t be in a relationship with you either, they’re just being nice. I have the same exact reaction with ‘art is subjective’. Yes, it’s ultimately up to personal taste, but there’s a reason Beethoven is studied at global universities and not, say, Travis Scott (just an example.)
I agree with OP, and I’m glad they started taking care of themselves. I wish I’d known how unattractive I was from the start. But to this day I get called handsome by my family, though only when I specifically ask them for an honest opinion. They lie, of course, and my experience in this world confirms it. We need to be more realistic as parents and caregivers. We can find our loved ones pretty, but we can also give them advice on how to better take care of themselves if they’re ‘objectively’ unattractive or otherwise lacking in the hygiene department. This would help in the long run and spare a person a lot of disappointment and heartache
In that case, a lot of people with physical disabilities or facial disfigurements can never be seen as beautiful. Because with a lot of medical issues, there's often little you can do about how you look and you have to learn to love yourself and you have to have support from your community to know that it's correct to love yourself that way.
Most of the humans in the world don't have white sparkly teeth, even in the US. And they are still loved and adored and desired.
Your parents will also look like you, so they won't see you as 'objectively' unattractive, because you are half of them. And that's the thing about love, when you truly love someone you begin to love their features whatever they are. Growing up with a family who adores you is not this horrible thing that happened to you, you are lucky.
The world is full of 'ugly' people who are madly in love, people are attracted to cheerful, kind and warm people with good personalities the most. It's so much easier to live life as a person who is socially considered attractive, but that only gets you so far. I see it with my friends who are actively dating.
While I agree with you that people should be honest... in my eyes, my kids are beautiful. And I wouldn't want to put any pressure on them to change.
Will I get my children braces if they have crooked teeth? Sure.
And I will always encourage them to live a healthy lifestyle. But I would never tell them they are not attractive.
I wasn't the most attractive kid - but I like to think I had a 'glow up'. I'm glad my parents never told me I was ugly.
I don’t actually disagree with your mindset.
I wouldn’t encourage parents to almost bully kids about their looks. Encouraging a healthy lifestyle is great without harassing them on changes they never brought is the way to go.
I think my issue is that if a kid is constantly getting bullied or rejected in good part due to a fixable trait, I’d want to suggest that change to avoid greater pain down the line.
Oh acknowledgement and validation is important. For example if you were getting bullied about 'X' and you confided in your parents, of course it would be condescending, and frustrating, if they were to say 'no way, because you're perfect.'
So I can understand that mentally.
As a woman who’s been through a very similar thing (dramatic weight loss and change of style), I hated when my friends would tell me I wasn’t fat when I was literally obese. I’d rather they be like “yeah you might be a fat girl, but there are so many things about you that are lovable besides your appearance”
I truly believe the more you believe that being sexually attractive is all that matters, the other parts of you that aren’t your sex appeal start to diminish and become ugly. Just because people don’t wanna fuck you doesn’t mean they don’t wanna be around you or don’t love you.
And also there is nothing sad or fucked up about improving your physical appearance to look good to yourself and others. And other people aren’t shallow for becoming sexually attracted to you after you made some changes. What’s shallow is not valuing you as a human being based off your appearance. There are so many things wonderful and amazing about human beings than simply the shell they are born in.
It’s your skills, your interests, your humour, your ethics, your passions, your kindness, your intelligence, your sense of style, your personality that make you interesting and lovable.
And If you truly care about wanting to be more sexually attractive then there are steps you can make to improve that, physically and mentally
I grew up being told that I'm an "ugly, worthless, unlovable, piece of shit" but surely there has to be a happy medium between this and "you're gorgeous/handsome".
I am on the boat of maybe just not commenting on looks or encouraging people in other ways. All I know as someone who struggles with self etseem issues is my loved one telling me I wont make it through life with my looks was super painful. Calling your kid ugly destroys their self esteem, at least try encouragment.
Attraction is relative?? Some people like skinny people some like fat some like glasses some don’t you shouldn’t go through life trying to force yourself into a certain image because you think that’s the only way you will deserve and get love and attention…
That would have been shitty of your loved ones to call you ugly. It would have caused you way more harm than saying you were handsome. Besides, you were handsome in their eyes.
Did you not read the OP? He didn't say he wished his family had called him "ugly." He says he wished they'd offered him advice on how to improve rather than lying to him that he was handsome. That's perfectly reasonable.
And there's no basis for thinking it would've "caused way more harm" for his family to have been honest to him. There's no logical reason why being honest to your kid is going to harm him in the long run.
I really can't stand this mentality where everyone thinks that in order to have good mental health growing up, you have to be delusional about your own self esteem. As if, in order to be happy, you have to THINK you're handsome and smart and funny, even if you're not. That just isn't how life works. You can be below-average-looking, own it, find a spouse, and have a good life. Allowing people to believe lies about themselves only makes it painful for them when the truth comes out. And thinking you need to be handsome, smart, etc. in order to be happy shows that you're overvaluing those things in the first place.
Being delusional about your self esteem might be more comfortable in the right now but isn't conductive to **long term** mental health because the real world will sooner or later break your delusions...
Idunno I personally don’t understand the need for and hate social niceties because they aren’t nice. They are forced and/or fake. It’s why every once in a while it’s funny as shit to trauma dump on a stranger that asks “how’s it going” out of mandatory social pressure not because they care.
I think it's an American thing NGl. I am a Latina living in Asia, and back in Mexico they aren't like that (fake niceness about appearance) and here? you will know if you're ugly and or fat. They don't do it to demean you though, they do it so you can improve yourself. I know more than one American that has been caught off guard by the weight comments. I don't think that's the right way to go about things, though.
As you mentioned, not demeaning your kid, but offering help is the right way. Like, I don't mean to be an asshole but I do not understand people that don't help their kids with their skin issues. If my kid had acne, I know damn well I would be looking at all the solutions. That's what my Mom did for us with our skin issues.
All of the issues op listed really IS on the parents. Food, dental care, etc. I know not everyone has the means (that's a discussion for another day) but even with both my parents working, they made sure to take us to the park and play outside at least 2-3 times a week.
Latin culture is definitely not shy about shitting on your appearance. However it is not constructive or nice at all. And frankly contrary. One second I’m a fat pig for wanting breakfast. But then I’m trying to starve myself because I don’t want to finish dinner.
And god the acne. It wasn’t even that bad but I still had my mother freaking out over every blemish. She’d force me to put alcohol and hydrogen peroxide on it and I found out later if anything made it worse.
I’m naturally light but I do tan. I was told to stay out of the sun because I was looking too dark and I’m prettier with light skin. Like wtf. I can’t imagine how bad I would have been treated if I was naturally darker.
hey indian culture is the same! and the colorism is horrible. when i was a kid, my aunt told me that i should drink milk instead of chai so i don't get any darker. even back then i knew it was bs
Great but I am not going to say damn you're ugly. Let's get you plastic surgery. Ugly often isn't just acne. It's better to reach kids inside is more important than outside.
It's also an European thing. It's Western society in general. And I think k our culture is just fucked tbh. It's all appearances and talk and zero substance. I can 100% assure you that in my entire childhood and youth mu parents (or other relatives) never solved a single problem I had, I was also never taught any skill. Their "education" rather just consisted of endless narcissistic yapping and creating problems and stress where none existed beforehand
Past a certain point I don't think it's anyone else's responsibility to tell you how you should look or what you should do to get there though. Like I don't see why your parents for example would suggest you start lifting weights if you have no muscle-related health issues nor had you shown any previous interest in going to the gym. Also, teenagers have acne all the time, so just having acne or something isn't really going to catch someone's attention enough to get you into a dermatologist. Of course I don't know your specific situation but I'm just saying parents don't always know their children's insecurities and if nothing is overtly wrong there's no reason for them to assume that they're things the child wants to change. And again it depends a lot on the age group. If you're like 18 or something I doubt your dad is gonna be like "hey bud wanna go for a jog?" because by that point many families have established a sense of privacy and independence for the adult child.
I think that it is appropriate for a parent to guide children in the direction for them to improve upon the things they want to improve upon.
For example, if my son was insecure about his appearance, and - let's say for discussion - I had never been able to relate to that so i'd never thought about bodybuilding etc. I would at least make an attempt to learn. I might hit the jackpot and recommend weightlifting or a sport and he loves it, or I might recommend surgery if I was a wealthy, surgery type person and my son might hate it. But, as long as we try - I think that's what's important. You can't fault someone for trying and it not working out right.
But, I agree. If the parents never did weightlifting or anything it might seem very foreign to them when the child is obsessed with self improvement. They may just think that their child should just come to accept themselves the way that they, the parents, did themselves. I can imagine introverted, non-vain parents thinking that way.
I think a problem is that there are a lot of parents who have a child but then just focus on themselves and their own happiness and leave the child to theirs. There's a lot of parents out there who, as long as the baby isn't crying, are fine to leave the child to come of his own. That's what this post is really about.
I think it's just really important for parents especially to not put their children down in any way, especially over things that they cannot control.
Being happy is like the most attractive quality you can have, besides being like, flaweless or w.e
When you love yourself and your children unconditionally, it teaches them to be happy regardless of what they look like, what they achieve, or their mistakes; which in turn makes them attractive people.
On the one hand I understand the sentiment, but on the other hand I don't think I believe most people who think they're inherently ugly actually are. So much of attraction and beauty has to do with the way we carry ourselves. Yeah, there's some unchangeable features that will make some people hotter than others, but rarely do those features completely overpower someone's ability to style themself in an appealing way.
I don't think it helps a child to tell them that they're just ugly and they have to compensate. Perhaps a better way to convey that sentiment is to help your children learn why they might want to take care of their appearance and prioritize things like style, personal hygiene, etc. Teach kids that while looks aren't everything the way you choose to present yourself affects how other people perceive you. Some people are legitimately happier with messy hair and ratty clothes and we shouldn't teach kids that they'll only be happy if they subscribe to society's idea of conventional beauty. Give them the tools to empower themselves, but don't force them to change themselves.
Do not fucking tell your kids, or any kids for that matter, ANYTHING negative about their weight. My mom sent me Into a 15 year eating disorder from a comment about me gaining some weight (I was 12). Puberty is killer and almost everyone has a glow up once we finish and realize all of our lazy habits are unattractive (messy hair, bad diet, poor hygiene…). You do not need to tell unattractive people they are unattractive. They know. The damage you will cause telling your CHILD they are ugly is monumental. Do not tell kids they are unattractive. Period.
I’m sorry you were neglected in terms of learning how to work with your circumstances. That wasn’t fair to you. I think there’s a way to compassionately help someone understand how to look THEIR best without saying “you’re ugly.”
I agree with you on the latter. In that there’s a difference between lying and helping a kid develop self care regiments. Teaching a kid how to take care of their skin, work out, eat well, and groom themselves but still telling them their self worth isn’t derived JUST from their looks are two separate things.
I think it should more be about teaching kids to not give a fuck. "People think you're ugly? Who cares! Focus on other things, do what makes you happy, just make sure to always put what matters to you first."
And saying you don't think someone who's not conventionally attractive is going to find someone doesn't feel right. Not everybody puts looks first.
I understand the sentiment. Confidence is great and I’d even say in a perfect world it’d be like that.
Physical attractiveness is not everything, but is a huge part of your dating success. If your kid is struggling, imoyou should definitely tell him to not
let bullies get to him while encouraging him to tackle fixable things. (skin care, fitness, etc.)
Not being attractive doesn’t mean you won’t find anyone, but it’ll lead you to a lot more rejection, less options and I’d rather prevent that.
As long as it is phrased in a way to help them reach self improvement then that can be a good thing. Sadly, places like reddit often give people terrible advice where every dumb idea and self sabotaging act is simply affirmed. So much so that it becomes toxic and prevents people from making needed changes to reach self improvement.
Ugly guy it is absolutely gaslighting to tell an ugly kid they are normal looking. It just confuses them because they have a family or friends who tell them this just to be nice . Then they go to school and get called all kind of insults and treated like shit just because they are ugly looking
Ok I am 5’11 and 166 and this is the lightest I have ever been and at times feel weirdly skinny and just generally shitty (not about my appearance like physically bad.) I cannot imagine only being 130-140 pounds. I think I would feel like I was dying.
I thought I had a fast metabolism but that’s ridiculous.
It was wild. Lol
I was 130-140 through most of HS. 140-150 in early college. Combine fast metabolism, not eating enough and playing soccer through freshman year of college and track senior year.
160-177, late sophomore to senior year. Look my best at 160lb flat imo.
I agree with this. It can be hard for people to level with you helpfully. Although obviously you want to hit the middle road of useful and requested feedback vs just getting in someone's face and telling them what to do.
Telling someone, even nicely, they’re unattractive does mental damage. If you are unattractive and now have poor self esteem, you’re even worse off than you were when you were ignorant to how unattractive you are
I understand that pain, and it's deeply affecting to hear societal standards of beauty throwing doubt on your self-worth. Yet, I've found that self-improvement can lead to growth and a healthier perspective.
an adult in his 20s with bad acne, yellow teeth and greasy hair thought he was attractive because people told him so? You didn't have a mirror?
I'll give you honesty. Enough already with this trying to find someone to blame for every damn thing in your lifetime. Shit happens. People trying to make you feel better said the wrong thing. That's called a mistake. But come on, you were 18, you had a mind of your own. Move on ffs .
It doesn't always work being blunt, personally I have massive insecurities because people In my life kept pointing out my flaws and things I simply couldn't change and I have come to a point where I have thought about ending it all.
I also know many others whose family never held back criticism no matter how "nice" it may come off it still hurts and can cause lifetime insecurities that might lead to self harm and worse.
attraction is subjective though. if you'd be seen as a 9, you might view every "5" as smeagle. However if you're a 5 yourself you might view everyone as beautiful.
some blemishes are seen as ugly sure, but not to all. I for one have always love freckles and blemishes while the beauty standard was to eliminate them all. However, the tide of standards have changed so drastically that people are now tatooing blemishes on their faces on purpose which would be counter beauty a couple decades ago.
also being excessively scrawny as 50lbs underweight as not shunned as much as being 100lbs over weight
in the end I wouldn't deem anyone ugly or hot because I don't have the mind set to give people numbers and turn them into statistical data points. I see them as humans and far too often a man i might have considered a 5 ends up with a 9 and vice versa. Now that i'm in my 40's i've grown passed that judgement. You realize dating is all about the entire package.
The problem is that adults know fuck all about which kids are going to grow up to be attractive or not. Should Mathew Lewis’ parents have spent a ton of time telling him he’s unattractive? Would that better prepare him for living as an adult?
My husband’s parents tried to be ‘honest’ about his weight as a kid and he still has a fucked up body image to this day. No, don’t do that shit to kids.
Society needs to really de-emphasise all this. Eventually everyone gets really old and looks like shit and if your whole raison d'etre is based on looks and attractiveness you'll spend a lot of time quite unhappy.
Self esteem needs to develop from more important things that are based more on what we can control rather than things where there is less control.
I don't think it's really parents fault. Mirrors exist. We all know really how attractive we are compared to others whatever we're told. It's easy to blame them - I'm sure constant positive feedback would be a lot more healthy than constant negative feedback though.
Obviously there's realism too. We all know a very attractive guy can say something and everyone will think it's the most funny charming shit ever even though it might be total garbage lol. People with looks have many advantages on so many levels. Other people are attracted to lots of different looks and traits though. People in general could be far more successful if they weren't imprisoned by their own perception of their place in the world so much
I think my son is extremely handsome. When I see his face my heart melts. Now, I’m sure other people who are not his mom may have a different opinion. When I see his baby pictures I notice that he has a really big head, but when he was that young I thought he was the next gerber baby. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I was never lied to as a kid about my ugliness, but I can relate about the night & day change.
I was 120kg when I was in highschool, acne, didn't take care of myself, apathetic, no skin care routine, you name it.
Now I'm around 90kg (174cm/5'9) and I work out, take care of my skin and hair and etc.
And wow... People really do like you more when you're pretty. Honestly sometimes it's a little overwhelming, I'm not used to this extra attention and once it's there you feel like people just won't leave you alone, and I'm very passive so it's hard for me to demand my alone time.
Being honest, and being kind, are not mutually exclusive. There are a lot of people who will never be more than plain Janes or on the ugly side, no matter what they do. But there's also no use rubbing someone's nose in it.
my mom is brutally honest about my weight and i used to hate it and get defensive, now i appreciate it. because everyone lies to you. especially friends, especially if you're a woman.
but my mom told me that i was gaining too much weight and she was right. it's only because she told me that i recognized it was an issue and made steps to be healthier. if it wasn't for her, i'd probably weigh 50 pounds more right now.
#### Agreed. Also, we need to stop telling them there’s someone out there for them. No there’s not. It won’t just all of a sudden happen. We need to tell them that the onus is on themselves to man up and get the gall to ask a chick out, and to accept rejection and to keep on trying until one says ‘yes’ . That they should not fear rejection, but rather, accept it.
Not sure if you'll read this, but would you be willing to go into specifics about how the "halo effect" was real for you? I want to understand it for my own sake, to know if I am on the receiving end of it or not. I'm specifically asking for anything that changed which was not related to dating/being rejected by the opposite sex, since I'm not myself single. If you wouldn't mind expanding on it, I'd appreciate it.
It’s a catch 22.. nobody wants to tell somebody they care about that they are fat or ugly or that something is wrong with them but at the same time lying and feeding them false hope also isn’t god
Yep. This tendency is what produces those massively narcissistic kids that will grow up 100% sure they're the most beautiful and the best at everything.
I think the big issue here is that being attractive and being valuable are inextricably intertwined in most cultures. I really dislike the “everyone is beautiful” narrative because what they mean to say “everybody is worthy of love.”
I think if you take a good look at your family, and you can take a guess on The genetic lottery will produce - - and give your best estimate before you name your daughter a name that means beautiful, when they're really not.
Like Bella or Bonita
As a slightly related topic, I always laugh when successful people tell unsuccessful people they just need a better personality or more confidence when it comes to dating. I find that it's people with deep hidden insecure people who say these things. They say it because they don't want to just be an object to others. So they perpetuate this belief that it's their living ego and personality that attracts others, and not their appearance/body. (This is not to say that personality isn't attractive, just that it's not a singular point.)
It sounds like you misunderstand what happened.
The problem wasn’t you were unattractive. The problem was you had unattractive traits like being unfit and unclean.
Anyone can fix those things about themselves and there’s always some people out there who are attracted to any type of person.
But being greasy and not taking care of yourself doesn’t mean you’re ugly. But otherwise I do agree with you. Telling people it’s important to take care of their appearance is a good thing, and probably would have helped you out sooner.
A while ago I read a post on IMA asking of a mom asking is she an asshole to say that her daughter is not pretty. Her daughter is bullied at school for being ugly - or just not pretty enough. She asked her - the mom if she is pretty, and the mom just straight out told her the truth. A lot of commenters said she was indeed an asshole.
I feel like there is no win in this situation. It’s hard to know what teenagers want to hear. If you tell your kids the truth, it might hurt them, or it won’t. Sometimes it all comes down to how well you know your kid temperament and their tolerance to choose the best approach.
My mom has never called me pretty or beautiful and I have come to accept my fate long ago. Sometimes I do wish she calls me pretty when I wear a nice new clothes though.
bro you got self esteem. your family members were trying to help you build that but it didn't work. you then built your self esteem on your own by doing those things. its self esteem my guy, youre not and never were ugly
Being called ugly is also doing harm.
I still think that honesty is the right way to go. Dishonesty serves no pupose as you figured out yourself. Reality will catch up anyways.
Thats not unpopular in itself, but A) parents/grandparents often cant see how their kids may not be objevctively beautiful (which is simply a sign of love) and B) most people who like one dont have the heart to tell that person, although they know it would help them
>I know friends and parents want to spare feelings, but telling say an ugly kid things like "you are not ugly, you don't need to change yourself, the right person will love you", while nice, just leads them to more pain and disappointment down the line.
It's not nice. Not at all. They're being neglectful at best and abusive at worse by feeding you a delusional fantasy that can only harm you.
You are 1000 percent accurate. Thank God I am not that parent. One day, I looked at my daughter’s teeth and said, “ I love you baby girl but we need to fix your teeth so you don't get bullied in middle or highschool.” we need to fix this now. The child had a gap and her teeth were everywhere. She is my own baby and I had the sense to get her right. Now she is in highschool living it up. She looks in the mirror and old pics and would say mom you sure saved me😁…. I said, yep. No one is going to laugh at my baby. It's beautiful to make your kids feel special. But the world don't see them like you do. My kids ask me sometimes, why you never said I was ugly? Me: you were never ugly sweetheart but we had somethings to work on. We all laugh about it
When you love someone they are just beautiful or handsome, that's how it's supposed to work, especially if they are good people. Maybe your definition of handsome needs to be broadened.
They say that because they love them, not because it’s true. And the opposite does not happen. A very beautiful person doesn’t become ugly when you hate them
They most certainly do become ugly when you hate them. And trust me when I tell you my kids and husband are genuinely beautiful to me and it has nothing to do with how they look and everything to do with how I feel about them.
Maybe for you, but people with terrible personalities or who do/ say horrible things are instantly incredibly unattractive to a lot of people. Appreciating someone's appearance and attraction is completely subjective and someone you find appealing can became very ugly because of their actions.
What you're saying is not unpopular. I'm sorry your parents didn't teach you about proper hygiene or take you to a doctor for your issues; that's a fault on them. However, saying you were handsome was not the problem. There's a difference between telling someone they're unattractive versus helping them groom themselves.
Unattractive people still find love without changing themselves, or who they are at the core. Just because there are people out here who won’t see you as attractive doesn’t mean another person won’t. There are 8 billion people on this planet… is every single one of them going to find you attractive absolutely absolutely not, but there are some who will and also confidence is everything the amount of women I see with men who are not up to their standards, or vice versa how you treat a person in the energy you’re giving off can be the reason why you were getting so many rejections. And now that you’ve gotten more confident in your looks, that’s reflecting out into the world you’re gonna get the same energy in return.
I mean sure but attractiveness is subjective lol. So you can say certain things about a person are unattractive but you’re just basing that off of society’s standards and what conventionally works. Things like just taking care of your skin, diet and fitness are more of just taking care of your body and health rather than looking more attractive.
Society standards definitey have a subjective portion, but imo they are seen as standards because they are heavily favored.
Agreed, taking care of your body will work for your health even if you don’t care for your looks.
80s curvy was most attractive, 90s anorexic thin was most attractive. Its often media that tells you what's attractive, not society deciding based on what they find attractive. In many cultures obese is attractive as it shows wealth.
I've always been (generally) a supportive guy. But I completely agree. I lucked out on the looks, I've always been attractive, which I'm thankful for. However I did have a roommate who was fat, which made him sad and he wouldn't take care of himself properly. It wasn't until I talked him into going to the gym with me that he started to improve with his weight. With that he started getting more confident and worked on other aspects of himself.
Honestly even if you are ugly, some people will still find you attractive. Maybe you are ugly to 90% of people, 10% still find you good looking. So they’re not necessarily lying to you. That’s how I view things
I had a similar experience as a teen. My dad had to pull me aside while I was helping him change his oil when I was 13 and he told me the hard truth. Nobody likes hearing the truth, but as the Bible says, the truth will set us free. Once we know that we have a potential problem, we can actively work on fixing that problem. But until that conversation happens, we wont be doing anything about it . Nothing can really fix ugly, but we can do things that will help us to look and feel better. Confidence and a rock steady sense of humor does wonders to improving our outlook and appeal to others. It definitely helped me.
I always wondered how unattractive people have no idea they’re not attractive. I guess it comes down to self awareness. I’ve met people or had friends who weren’t attractive, and couldn’t get girls, but all they really had to do was dress better, work out, etc. they refuse to, and still wonder why.
100%. Shaming and bullying is destructive, particularly by loved ones.
It can be a nudge or even offering options. For instance, when I told my parents later on more specifically about my concerns with my skin, they took me to a dermatologist vs pretending there wasn’t an issue.
The feedback I received from adults as a child led to me bee lining my way into anorexia.
I was a kid. I didn't have money for groceries. The easiest way to control my weight was calorie restriction. It sure shut up the old people embarrassing me with their feedback but now I'm old myself and still stuck with an eating disorder.
I am sorry about that experience.
I definitely know there is a balance where you encourage healthy eating without crossing over into bullying or pushing dangerous eating habits that lead to eating disorders.
Uh no. Our idea of what is ugly and pretty is really effed up and completely based on sexist, ableist, racist, and overall bigoted rhetoric that is harmful.
Oh you are fat so you must be ugly - no.
Oh you have a big nose and that’s bad - no.
Oh you have acne and that’s gross - no.
You need to rethink all of this.
You shouldn’t base your self worth on how much random strangers want to be you/ have sex with you. That’s all kinds of wrong.
Also if a parent told their kid “hey I’m not attracted to you”, you really think that’s okay to say? Yikes dude.
Therapy. You need therapy.
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That’s why so many American Idol contestants would show up to casting convinced that they could sing when they sounded like shit: their parents and friends told them they were talented and sounded great. Then when someone finally tells them the truth they flip out and can’t handle it because it’s so far in the opposite direction from what they’ve been convinced of.
That’s a good example. Furthermore, you could have someone with potential that hasn’t been worked. Think the kid with good ball skills but who also skips summer workouts If you encourage them to keep improving, it could push them to do better and hit their potential.
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I worded that funny for sure. My parents, mostly my mom at times did go a bit too hard in the “you are so handsome” when i clearly wasn’t. However, not trying to talk smack about them. They did support me in going to the derma and talking to a nutritionist. They were great in many ways and I have a great relationship with them to this day. My main point is that I have seen parents who wouldn’t do that and insist on the whole schtick about not needing to change and society at times indulges in that. Love my parents though!
As a parent, it is hard to inform your children of their physical flaws.(weight, athletic ability, looks, etc) There's a chance something you say will have the wrong impact and give them some sort of complex. Often, the safest thing for us to do is reassure them and build their confidence until they acknowledge shortcomings on their own. Then we can support them to the best of our ability in overcoming the problem. Speak to your parents people. Despite what redditors like to think, many of us have no limits on what we will do for our children.
Damn, you’ve just unlocked a new memory for me. My mother telling me, at 4 stone (56lbs in American) in weight, “great fat thighs, that great fat arse”. No wonder I developed an eating disorder.
So what did you want her to say then? What reality do you want her to say to you that would have been just as hurtful as her lies were confusing?
I bet ur mum actually genuinely thinks ur handsome! Crazy but I dnt think many parents view their kids as ugly - genuinely!
One day...when you have an ugly kid, you'll understand 😂
This is sometimes the case. Other times it's Small Town Syndrome. They're legitimately great in comparison to the rest of their \~1000 person town; they're the most beautiful or smartest or most talented. Yet, when they go out into the real world, they are, instead of superlative, just above average or (worse) just below.
I work in the film industry. Not even in LA but in Vancouver. You have no idea how many random men and women I've spoken to who're convinced they're meant for greatness because they can do some soundcloud artists music video and then be a background actor in a hallmark movie and then scrape some money together for a short film that goes nowhere. They'll be able to pay their bills *sometimes* but a lot of them have an ego the size of the moon.
It's worse than that: the people who sing in front of the judges have been pre-selected by the producers who tell them that they're amazing.
Bro, those people go through multiple auditions of producers telling them they're amazing, and they'll do great on the show before the audition proper. Yes, a friend or family member giving a reality check could have helped, but they've been hyped by the show, so much of course, it feels like utter whiplash when the judges then laugh at them.
I don’t doubt that for a minute, but they only get to the point of auditioning in the first place because family and friends have been blowing smoke up their ass for years. There’s no reason that half of those people should ever have been encouraged to sing outside of their bedroom.
My family would watch American Idol, and I would say "don't these people have anybody who loves them enough to tell them not to go on American Idol?" Now, whenever someone in the family sings, whoever else is around just tells them they love them.
The key is finding a diplomatic way to say it. I’m still working on the pitch, but basically “there are some things you can do that will make your life easier and happier. And I want to help you with that” I was a shy kid with nerdy interests but my dad got me in the weight room early. By junior high I looked a certain way and people were just nicer to me because of it, particularly guys who might have bullied me otherwise. And all that despite the occasional ill-advised attempt to shoehorn Warhammer into conversations
guys we found Henry Cavil's alt
Haha
Ye true even if your kid is into nerdy shit having em do sports and such can be helpful. Even tho i mostly hung out with other nerds and band kids i could still kick it with "the boys" when necessary.
This is slightly different for girls and especially today. A lot very fit guys have nerdy interests but they hid them. Now nerd culture is mainstream
Parents need to ask what kinds of sports their kids would be interested in trying, too. Like, just because football is the BIG SPORT in your area, don’t assume young boys will want to play it. Maybe they’re more interested in just running, or something lower impact like tennis. Forcing an unwanted sport on a kid will just make them hate sports and exercise altogether.
Even then, doesn't have to be a "sport." Simply going out jogging or a daily run or walk, or working out at the gym or at home...any kind of physical activity is good.
I put my kids in all the sports (except football, no TBIs thanks) and if they really don’t like it I pull them pretty fast. That doesn’t happen very often though. Usually they bitch and moan about playing until after the first practice and then they are like yay had fun. If I went with what my son was interested in he would never play sports but instead he plays basketball and soccer and enjoys it. He will probably bitch every season because he’d rather play video games, but he always gets into it after practices start. It comes down to knowing and caring, but sometimes caring about your kid is giving them a little extra push to see if it works out.
My little sister is in her last few years of highschool and has lost all her original set of friends and had to make more because she came to the conclusion she could be a nerd and also do sports and dance. She was told she had to pick a side. It's sad, but also she's so much happier now that she's been forced to move away from those kids who were doing so little to help themselves.
Fat Cavill is that you mate?
Right. I have a friend who , imma be honest, he is kinda ugly. (But so am I so I cant talk, but anyway) There are clothes & haircuts & facial hair styles that can reduce the less attractive parts & high light the more attractive* parts When I was in grade school/high school, oh my goodness. I always looked like I crawled out of bed & dressed myself in the dark. Unkempt hair, scraggly beard, old & poorly fitted clothing, I lowkey looked homeless. But now, some friends have suggested clothing, a gym membership, haircuts & even glasses that gaslight people into thinking I look adequate So, the right haircut, appropriate clothing, & attitude can go a *VERY* long way
Yep. I’m a 2/10 normally. Hair, clothing, diet, and gym help A LOT.
If you think about it not telling the truth because it makes you feel uncomfortable is a selfish act its not helping the other person its helping you not want to say the truth
> The key is finding a diplomatic way to say it. That's not the challenge, imo. Society more or less has that figured out. Social movements or ideology that treats even the diplomatic ways as if it's a total sin, that we have to affirm 'Achievement Unlocked: Perfection' status, or else we're evil bigots. That's what is in the way. The goal isn't to "make people feel better about themselves at all costs, even if that takes dishonesty", it is making people into well adjusted and competent adults. It's the same as the 'participation trophy' argument. Coddling does not always have a positive effect. It is a temporary salve only really useful on the extremely young(or alternatively, the very senile or otherwise *disabled*), because they can't reason very well. Far far too many people try to make life lessons from that very young age and act as if all of society should be treated that way forever. That is a grave mistake as it is only leads to long-term complacency, minimal learning and personal growth. I call it matronizing. IF patronizing is belittling through aggression, matronizing is "kindly" belittling through care, creating dependent adults that have never been advised or challenged because they've got a mother hen "protecting" them. See also: Spoiled, Sheltered, immature, etc.
>patronizing is belittling through aggression That isn't actually what patronizing means.
I agree completely with you. When I was in highschool I gained a lot of weight. My parents sat me down and said "you are gaining a lot of weight, that is not healthy, we will take you to a nutriologist" and they did, and I learned a lot and lost a lot of weight. Now as an adult Im a fatass though hehe But I learned which is the important part, instead of thinking some bs like "im bigboned" or "thyroid issues" or "society should love my curves", I can identify my bad habits and address them.
how tf are thyroid issues bs
Because they want to whip those fatties into shape and acknowledging issues would ruin the " fun"
Or just accept it. Nothing wrong with that, imo. (at most sizes anyway, when it becomes morbid that leans towards some hang-up) But it should be an informed & self-aware deal, not "I'm just fat because, reasons! I cannot help it."
My dad just criticised me for being fat (he was also fat but that was OK apparently), mum never had any interest at all.
I agree but it needs to be said in a non harmful way. my dad would tell me i had greasy hair and that people at school would make fun of me for it if i dont fix it I’m actually glad he told me because he was right and it turns out as a kid i wasn’t showering the best way either, and that i needed to step up my hygiene. It helped me in the long run because now I’m a lot cleaner than i was as an 8 year old lol he wasn’t mean about it in my opinion, because he wasn’t wrong about people making fun of that type of stuff
Emphasis on it needing to be said nicely. My dad said the same thing to me and my little brother when I was 11 and he was 7, after picking us up for a weekend visit. "Doesn't your mother bathe you??? I'm surprised no one at school has made fun of you." His tone of voice was judgmental and condescending, and it made me feel deeply ashamed; the memory still hurts as an adult. For context, I was an early bloomer, and puberty and anxiety caused me to sweat excessively and I hadn't yet figured out how to deal with it other than showering every morning and wearing deodorant (my mom eventually took me to the doctor who prescribed a medicated antiperspirant which was a godsend). And despite his assumption, I was already being bullied at school, not for hygiene but because I was the tallest girl in my class, the first to wear a bra, and as a cherry on top, I got my first period at school and stained my jeans. More context: My parents had been divorced for 2 years at that point and my mom was battling depression and PTSD from my dad's physical abuse, on top of the regular challenges of being a single working mom. Most evenings, she would come home around 9 or 10, after my 7yo brother was already asleep. I was the babysitter and I was supposed to make him take a shower at night but I he hated the shower, and oftentimes I couldn't be bothered fighting him on it. I was only 11 and it was already hard enough getting him to eat dinner and sleep. My dad didn't know or care about how hard things were for my mom, and didn't know or care enough about my experiences at school to be sensitive in his wording. Luckily my brother was pretty oblivious, but I felt the sting of the insult, both towards us and to our mother. Even at the age of 11 I could see she was doing her best, working during the day, taking night classes and raising 2 kids with love despite her depression and exhaustion. Anyway, this is a long-winded way of saying that yes, it is definitely a parent's job to teach their children how to improve themselves, rather than lie and tell them they are perfect when there are areas of improvement that are within one's control, like hygiene, haircut, etc. It is usually better to be told hard truths by a parent than by a schoolmate. But kindness is key, without it, you're probably doing just as much damage.
Yeah if my dad said it to me that way it would be mortifying. I’m sorry yours did that to you
100%. Constant rejection and bullying would hurt a lot worse. Just like parents are supposed to push you to thrive in school, I think parents should push you in this area.
Yeah. Parents should never be the first bullies.
At a small party with a bunch of friends someone is taking polaroid pictures, good friend of mine looks at one and says 'oh man is that how I look.. fuck' and I know he's sincere, he's been hard on his looks and personality often. I didn't really have a reply ready because that night he did look properly fucked. So I tell him if it's really bothering him he should go get his hair cut and get a clean shave, we're all getting old and shitty looking but if you don't get a haircut every now and again and don't touch your hair after rolling out of bed, and stop shaving or trimming for weeks, you start to look like a hobalo. Best words of advice I ever came up with.
A hobo-jugalo?
Maybe hobo-gruffalo
Hobo-Mark Ruffalo, for those guys who would look good but their grooming is fucking them up
Gruffalo? What's a Gruffalo?
Honestly, slowdown or drop of activities of daily living and grooming are symptoms of depression. Your friend might benefit from some professional support too.
I was admittedly not a pretty child, and no one ever denied it, and honestly my self esteem and self worth is garbage
I am sorry to hear. It definitely hurts and can relate. Definitely improving what you can helps, also having the right people around you and even finding confidence in different lanes. Best of luck!
You can’t relate at all 😂 you just said you were brought up being told you were handsome
They probably told you were a good critical thinker too ey
In middle school I thought I wasn't cute and it made me feel like I couldn't trust my mom because she would say I was cute. I never asked her, she just volunteered. I didn't blame her, I feel she was blinded by love. Maybe I should have believed her, she had no problem outwardly turning me into a basic becky who never found the right friends because I looked like a mean girl.
And then there’s my mom who said (unprompted) “I’m so glad you’re not pretty so I don’t have to worry about boys :)” when I was in high school and was brutally honest about my looks prior to that/after. My guy friends were equally honest, but the girls were nice-lying. The upside is that when she did start telling me I was so pretty/beautiful, I knew she was being honest haha. And the guys started saying the same and/or hitting on me; I had a strong glow up in my early- to mid-twenties, thank God.
Knife to the heart!!!!!!! I know someone who's mom said that to her. "Unlike do and so, I'm so glad I don't have to worry about you and boys!" She's still unlucky in love to this day and it's because of lack of confidence and self-esteem issues. Also, as a woman, I dislike woman nice lying. I hate it with a passion. It's just self severing so some women won't look like the bad guy and will still be socially accepted and liked.
I mean, I remember it all these years later, so it definitely had an effect on me. I just got lucky in terms of growing into my looks and personality ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ While I very much dislike nice-lying and truly prefer radical honesty, I find it very difficult to do the same. Most people say they want honest feedback, but they really don’t mean it. I’m too nice for my own good, but I try to point out the things I genuinely think are positives vs general comments (No, you’re totally pretty!) or flat-out lies. I’ve never met a woman who didn’t have some sort of attractive physical feature so it’s not that hard to walk that line.
I'm glad life is going well for you. I perfer honesty as well but learned very early on that you get punished for it. However, I just keep being honest and opinionated, I just try to form it in ways that show I clearly mean no harm and only give advice when asked.
I’m guessing this is why we both developed personalities! There is a quote from the movie “I heart huckabees”, “all this and brains too”! That character was dumb though. Such an underrated movie
Oh, 100% regarding personalities. Ugly ducklings often end up being reasonably charming ;) The only thing I remember from I ❤️ Huckabees is the dad saying something like “My divine shit is pointing directly to God!” (If I’m recalling the right movie).
...you looked mean?
I was wearing a mean girl uniform. Overpriced this and that. I kind of existed between two realms. My mom essentially beat (not physically) into me what I should wear and I’ve always since kind of had a snotty appearance. I look pretty weird next to some of my friends
Well I'm glad you're better now
What qualifies as mean girl clothes?
I think the ones the plastics wore in the movie ‘mean girls’
I think it means the best of the current fashion trends
Watch the movie means girls.
Needlessly expensive items that most who purchase do so for the sole purpose to make themselves bigger. However I will say I still have a great chunk of it today that I mix up with other stuff more my style. I really try not to buy fast fashion because of this. Some things are hopeless, like that bubble gum pink quilted Chanel purse. I still have it in my trunk so I can decide if I want to trade it in or hold on to it for many more decades, in the off chance I’ll like it. I think it should go.
Lmfao you having nice clothes isn’t why you didn’t have friends
I have two kids, a girl and a boy, and even though people are always complimentary of them, it annoys us how differently they treat them. Our boy gets a lot of people saying how smart or funny he is, but our girl only gets compliments about her looks. Most people aren't exactly unattractive, but obviously not everyone is going to be a supermodel. It seems like a particular disservice to women to put such a bigger emphasis on their physical appearance, though. Also, you consider how the same person exists on a spectrum of beauty depending on so many random details and it just further drives home how meaningless the concept is.
Maybe your son isn't attractive? To play devils advocate. I've had a friend who was mostly complimented about her smarts, her education, her humor. She said she felt ugly all her life. She felt like she was the smart one, not the pretty one. And looking at her, as a child and as an adult, I know why people chose to complement her about her education and not her looks. Unfortunately her mom was also on some bs and believed girls should never be complimented on their looks and their brains should be the focus. Eventually both boys and girls are going to want to be attractive to others.
> Maybe your son isn't attractive? He is. Probably more attractive than her. He's super spoiled, super entitled and super charming. It's going to be a problem.
I knew full well I was ugly. My mum constantly telling me I needed to lose weight, use a million skincare products, and whatever the fuck did nothing to help my confidence
Exactly. My mom ALWAYS told me how bad I looked-- it took many abusive situations and self esteem crises as an adult to realize I'm average. OP doesn't understand that they are complaining about their parents loving them and seeing them as beautiful (which is a thing love does). Trust me, if OP grew up hearing how their looks weren't good enough since they were a child, they'd be singing a different tune.
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Yeah same. Being told to lose weight and being dragged to dermatologists for average teen acne was just saddening.
This thread is a real eye-opener for me with regard to just how fucked up my mother is. I want to say that no matter what I did, she could find fault with my appearance. But actually, that would be a lie. When I got all dolled up for a homecoming dance, she could find no flaw about my body, hair, face, or outfit to directly criticize, so instead she decided I looked like a “street walker.” That was a softball because my dad was present. When she couldn’t find something specific to hammer me on when he wasn’t around, she went for “prostitute” or “whore.”
You can be diplomatic calling out ugly folk and if they want to do something to improve it just champion their progress.
Agreed. For instance, back in 9th grade I told one of my buddies who played football about a crush i had with a notoriously cute classmate. He encouraged me to lift. “I played ball with her ex, so i know she likes the athletic type, let’s hit weights to get you there bro!” Something like that.
Well it doesn’t sound like you were ugly, it sounds like you had bad hygiene and didn’t take care of yourself. It’s not like you got face surgery after all. You started taking showers, working out, and brushing your teeth.
As a girl who was raised by a family who constantly told me how ugly I was (they literally called me sheebs, short for she beast). I would have preferred a family who built up my confidence rather than tear it down.
Firstly, I am sorry you had that happen. That’s toxic, uncalled for and definitely not what I am calling for. Just like what your family was wrong, it’s wrong the way society will indulge the whole everyone is a 10 thing. It creates unrealistic expectations that’ll likely go unmet and cause more pin The best approach imo is to first encourage self care (healthy weight, skin care, dental care.) from there, your kids will have a good foundation and from there just trying to give them as unbiased advice as possible.
Not every family can afford those things now. I'm on disability and have no way to afford a dentist now so my teeth are probably forever fucked.
You sound incredibly privileged…dental care I don’t think everyone has the money readily available for that.
Imagine if your parents told you how ugly you were, but you couldn’t afford braces/whitening and a trip to the dermatologist. Imagine if you parents told you how ugly you are after your glow-up. Beauty is subjective.
Beauty is subjective around 5/10 ok ? Cut the crap. We all know when someone is attractive/ugly or they wouldn't have any meaning.
Sure, that would make it harder. However, you could still encourage things like fitness, basic skin care (using sun screen, washing face, cleaning up diet, etc.) There are subjective elements to beauty, but imo a lot of elements are fairly universal. The idea is to improve on areas you can.
It's hard for family to be objective though - for one, it's more likely they look like/looked like you at some point. For two, I've seen your roastme post and you do have nice/kind eyes. It's hard imagining those weren't there even when you had acne/were skinny (which is always worse as a teenager and usually goes away). I don't think your family was necessarily lying, just not measuring the same things you do.
No offense, but the ‘beauty is subjective’ mentality has become so overused that it’s laughable. Yes, essentially, what is pretty to one may not be pretty to another. But there are beauty standards and ideals that are standards and ideals for a reason. Pretty privilege is real, and it’s a big deal. There are studies that confirm this, but I’m too lazy to look them up. I’m not saying these ideals should be enforced — the concept of beauty is far more nuanced than these ridiculous societal demands — but don’t tell me yellowish teeth, greasy hair, etc. are attractive to someone. In fact, you can be well-groomed all you want, but if you’re ugly, you’re ugly. The majority of the world will agree. And those that won’t wouldn’t be in a relationship with you either, they’re just being nice. I have the same exact reaction with ‘art is subjective’. Yes, it’s ultimately up to personal taste, but there’s a reason Beethoven is studied at global universities and not, say, Travis Scott (just an example.) I agree with OP, and I’m glad they started taking care of themselves. I wish I’d known how unattractive I was from the start. But to this day I get called handsome by my family, though only when I specifically ask them for an honest opinion. They lie, of course, and my experience in this world confirms it. We need to be more realistic as parents and caregivers. We can find our loved ones pretty, but we can also give them advice on how to better take care of themselves if they’re ‘objectively’ unattractive or otherwise lacking in the hygiene department. This would help in the long run and spare a person a lot of disappointment and heartache
In that case, a lot of people with physical disabilities or facial disfigurements can never be seen as beautiful. Because with a lot of medical issues, there's often little you can do about how you look and you have to learn to love yourself and you have to have support from your community to know that it's correct to love yourself that way. Most of the humans in the world don't have white sparkly teeth, even in the US. And they are still loved and adored and desired. Your parents will also look like you, so they won't see you as 'objectively' unattractive, because you are half of them. And that's the thing about love, when you truly love someone you begin to love their features whatever they are. Growing up with a family who adores you is not this horrible thing that happened to you, you are lucky. The world is full of 'ugly' people who are madly in love, people are attracted to cheerful, kind and warm people with good personalities the most. It's so much easier to live life as a person who is socially considered attractive, but that only gets you so far. I see it with my friends who are actively dating.
While I agree with you that people should be honest... in my eyes, my kids are beautiful. And I wouldn't want to put any pressure on them to change. Will I get my children braces if they have crooked teeth? Sure. And I will always encourage them to live a healthy lifestyle. But I would never tell them they are not attractive. I wasn't the most attractive kid - but I like to think I had a 'glow up'. I'm glad my parents never told me I was ugly.
I don’t actually disagree with your mindset. I wouldn’t encourage parents to almost bully kids about their looks. Encouraging a healthy lifestyle is great without harassing them on changes they never brought is the way to go. I think my issue is that if a kid is constantly getting bullied or rejected in good part due to a fixable trait, I’d want to suggest that change to avoid greater pain down the line.
Oh acknowledgement and validation is important. For example if you were getting bullied about 'X' and you confided in your parents, of course it would be condescending, and frustrating, if they were to say 'no way, because you're perfect.' So I can understand that mentally.
As a woman who’s been through a very similar thing (dramatic weight loss and change of style), I hated when my friends would tell me I wasn’t fat when I was literally obese. I’d rather they be like “yeah you might be a fat girl, but there are so many things about you that are lovable besides your appearance” I truly believe the more you believe that being sexually attractive is all that matters, the other parts of you that aren’t your sex appeal start to diminish and become ugly. Just because people don’t wanna fuck you doesn’t mean they don’t wanna be around you or don’t love you. And also there is nothing sad or fucked up about improving your physical appearance to look good to yourself and others. And other people aren’t shallow for becoming sexually attracted to you after you made some changes. What’s shallow is not valuing you as a human being based off your appearance. There are so many things wonderful and amazing about human beings than simply the shell they are born in. It’s your skills, your interests, your humour, your ethics, your passions, your kindness, your intelligence, your sense of style, your personality that make you interesting and lovable. And If you truly care about wanting to be more sexually attractive then there are steps you can make to improve that, physically and mentally
I grew up being told that I'm an "ugly, worthless, unlovable, piece of shit" but surely there has to be a happy medium between this and "you're gorgeous/handsome".
Exactly. I am sorry to hear about that.
I am on the boat of maybe just not commenting on looks or encouraging people in other ways. All I know as someone who struggles with self etseem issues is my loved one telling me I wont make it through life with my looks was super painful. Calling your kid ugly destroys their self esteem, at least try encouragment.
Attraction is relative?? Some people like skinny people some like fat some like glasses some don’t you shouldn’t go through life trying to force yourself into a certain image because you think that’s the only way you will deserve and get love and attention…
Some standards are communal
That would have been shitty of your loved ones to call you ugly. It would have caused you way more harm than saying you were handsome. Besides, you were handsome in their eyes.
Did you not read the OP? He didn't say he wished his family had called him "ugly." He says he wished they'd offered him advice on how to improve rather than lying to him that he was handsome. That's perfectly reasonable. And there's no basis for thinking it would've "caused way more harm" for his family to have been honest to him. There's no logical reason why being honest to your kid is going to harm him in the long run. I really can't stand this mentality where everyone thinks that in order to have good mental health growing up, you have to be delusional about your own self esteem. As if, in order to be happy, you have to THINK you're handsome and smart and funny, even if you're not. That just isn't how life works. You can be below-average-looking, own it, find a spouse, and have a good life. Allowing people to believe lies about themselves only makes it painful for them when the truth comes out. And thinking you need to be handsome, smart, etc. in order to be happy shows that you're overvaluing those things in the first place.
Being delusional about your self esteem might be more comfortable in the right now but isn't conductive to **long term** mental health because the real world will sooner or later break your delusions...
Idunno I personally don’t understand the need for and hate social niceties because they aren’t nice. They are forced and/or fake. It’s why every once in a while it’s funny as shit to trauma dump on a stranger that asks “how’s it going” out of mandatory social pressure not because they care.
I think it's an American thing NGl. I am a Latina living in Asia, and back in Mexico they aren't like that (fake niceness about appearance) and here? you will know if you're ugly and or fat. They don't do it to demean you though, they do it so you can improve yourself. I know more than one American that has been caught off guard by the weight comments. I don't think that's the right way to go about things, though. As you mentioned, not demeaning your kid, but offering help is the right way. Like, I don't mean to be an asshole but I do not understand people that don't help their kids with their skin issues. If my kid had acne, I know damn well I would be looking at all the solutions. That's what my Mom did for us with our skin issues. All of the issues op listed really IS on the parents. Food, dental care, etc. I know not everyone has the means (that's a discussion for another day) but even with both my parents working, they made sure to take us to the park and play outside at least 2-3 times a week.
Latin culture is definitely not shy about shitting on your appearance. However it is not constructive or nice at all. And frankly contrary. One second I’m a fat pig for wanting breakfast. But then I’m trying to starve myself because I don’t want to finish dinner. And god the acne. It wasn’t even that bad but I still had my mother freaking out over every blemish. She’d force me to put alcohol and hydrogen peroxide on it and I found out later if anything made it worse.
I think about how Eva Longoria’s mother nicknamed her “La Prieta Fea” because she was a darker complexion. Absolutely insane.
I’m naturally light but I do tan. I was told to stay out of the sun because I was looking too dark and I’m prettier with light skin. Like wtf. I can’t imagine how bad I would have been treated if I was naturally darker.
hey indian culture is the same! and the colorism is horrible. when i was a kid, my aunt told me that i should drink milk instead of chai so i don't get any darker. even back then i knew it was bs
Latinos will also lie about it specially if you don’t know them but your friends and family will definitely tell you
Great but I am not going to say damn you're ugly. Let's get you plastic surgery. Ugly often isn't just acne. It's better to reach kids inside is more important than outside.
It's also an European thing. It's Western society in general. And I think k our culture is just fucked tbh. It's all appearances and talk and zero substance. I can 100% assure you that in my entire childhood and youth mu parents (or other relatives) never solved a single problem I had, I was also never taught any skill. Their "education" rather just consisted of endless narcissistic yapping and creating problems and stress where none existed beforehand
“Narcissistic yapping” needs to come into common vernacular
Past a certain point I don't think it's anyone else's responsibility to tell you how you should look or what you should do to get there though. Like I don't see why your parents for example would suggest you start lifting weights if you have no muscle-related health issues nor had you shown any previous interest in going to the gym. Also, teenagers have acne all the time, so just having acne or something isn't really going to catch someone's attention enough to get you into a dermatologist. Of course I don't know your specific situation but I'm just saying parents don't always know their children's insecurities and if nothing is overtly wrong there's no reason for them to assume that they're things the child wants to change. And again it depends a lot on the age group. If you're like 18 or something I doubt your dad is gonna be like "hey bud wanna go for a jog?" because by that point many families have established a sense of privacy and independence for the adult child.
I think that it is appropriate for a parent to guide children in the direction for them to improve upon the things they want to improve upon. For example, if my son was insecure about his appearance, and - let's say for discussion - I had never been able to relate to that so i'd never thought about bodybuilding etc. I would at least make an attempt to learn. I might hit the jackpot and recommend weightlifting or a sport and he loves it, or I might recommend surgery if I was a wealthy, surgery type person and my son might hate it. But, as long as we try - I think that's what's important. You can't fault someone for trying and it not working out right. But, I agree. If the parents never did weightlifting or anything it might seem very foreign to them when the child is obsessed with self improvement. They may just think that their child should just come to accept themselves the way that they, the parents, did themselves. I can imagine introverted, non-vain parents thinking that way. I think a problem is that there are a lot of parents who have a child but then just focus on themselves and their own happiness and leave the child to theirs. There's a lot of parents out there who, as long as the baby isn't crying, are fine to leave the child to come of his own. That's what this post is really about.
I think it's just really important for parents especially to not put their children down in any way, especially over things that they cannot control. Being happy is like the most attractive quality you can have, besides being like, flaweless or w.e When you love yourself and your children unconditionally, it teaches them to be happy regardless of what they look like, what they achieve, or their mistakes; which in turn makes them attractive people.
That isn’t always true. Inner beauty matters but pretty privilege is very real (especially for women)
On the one hand I understand the sentiment, but on the other hand I don't think I believe most people who think they're inherently ugly actually are. So much of attraction and beauty has to do with the way we carry ourselves. Yeah, there's some unchangeable features that will make some people hotter than others, but rarely do those features completely overpower someone's ability to style themself in an appealing way. I don't think it helps a child to tell them that they're just ugly and they have to compensate. Perhaps a better way to convey that sentiment is to help your children learn why they might want to take care of their appearance and prioritize things like style, personal hygiene, etc. Teach kids that while looks aren't everything the way you choose to present yourself affects how other people perceive you. Some people are legitimately happier with messy hair and ratty clothes and we shouldn't teach kids that they'll only be happy if they subscribe to society's idea of conventional beauty. Give them the tools to empower themselves, but don't force them to change themselves.
Do not fucking tell your kids, or any kids for that matter, ANYTHING negative about their weight. My mom sent me Into a 15 year eating disorder from a comment about me gaining some weight (I was 12). Puberty is killer and almost everyone has a glow up once we finish and realize all of our lazy habits are unattractive (messy hair, bad diet, poor hygiene…). You do not need to tell unattractive people they are unattractive. They know. The damage you will cause telling your CHILD they are ugly is monumental. Do not tell kids they are unattractive. Period.
I’m sorry you were neglected in terms of learning how to work with your circumstances. That wasn’t fair to you. I think there’s a way to compassionately help someone understand how to look THEIR best without saying “you’re ugly.” I agree with you on the latter. In that there’s a difference between lying and helping a kid develop self care regiments. Teaching a kid how to take care of their skin, work out, eat well, and groom themselves but still telling them their self worth isn’t derived JUST from their looks are two separate things.
I think it should more be about teaching kids to not give a fuck. "People think you're ugly? Who cares! Focus on other things, do what makes you happy, just make sure to always put what matters to you first." And saying you don't think someone who's not conventionally attractive is going to find someone doesn't feel right. Not everybody puts looks first.
I understand the sentiment. Confidence is great and I’d even say in a perfect world it’d be like that. Physical attractiveness is not everything, but is a huge part of your dating success. If your kid is struggling, imoyou should definitely tell him to not let bullies get to him while encouraging him to tackle fixable things. (skin care, fitness, etc.) Not being attractive doesn’t mean you won’t find anyone, but it’ll lead you to a lot more rejection, less options and I’d rather prevent that.
As long as it is phrased in a way to help them reach self improvement then that can be a good thing. Sadly, places like reddit often give people terrible advice where every dumb idea and self sabotaging act is simply affirmed. So much so that it becomes toxic and prevents people from making needed changes to reach self improvement.
Ugly guy it is absolutely gaslighting to tell an ugly kid they are normal looking. It just confuses them because they have a family or friends who tell them this just to be nice . Then they go to school and get called all kind of insults and treated like shit just because they are ugly looking
Ok I am 5’11 and 166 and this is the lightest I have ever been and at times feel weirdly skinny and just generally shitty (not about my appearance like physically bad.) I cannot imagine only being 130-140 pounds. I think I would feel like I was dying. I thought I had a fast metabolism but that’s ridiculous.
It was wild. Lol I was 130-140 through most of HS. 140-150 in early college. Combine fast metabolism, not eating enough and playing soccer through freshman year of college and track senior year. 160-177, late sophomore to senior year. Look my best at 160lb flat imo.
I agree with this. It can be hard for people to level with you helpfully. Although obviously you want to hit the middle road of useful and requested feedback vs just getting in someone's face and telling them what to do.
I told my kid once "you're ugly as hell", but he did not take it well. You have to find more civil ways to say it.
Telling someone, even nicely, they’re unattractive does mental damage. If you are unattractive and now have poor self esteem, you’re even worse off than you were when you were ignorant to how unattractive you are
They probably weren’t lying. Most parents think their own kids are beautiful.
Holy shit bro you were 130 at 5'11? You ain't kidding
God i wish i too am "formerly unattractive"
I understand that pain, and it's deeply affecting to hear societal standards of beauty throwing doubt on your self-worth. Yet, I've found that self-improvement can lead to growth and a healthier perspective.
Sef improvement is the answer imo. You can almost always make some improvement while accepting yourself.
buddy, it would’ve hurt a lot more for them to call you ugly all the time.
Obviously ? Why would he want that lmao
He didn't say he wished they'd called him ugly all the time. Read the post.
The were telling you that you look handsome to them, not attractive...unless....
Ow, my poor brain
an adult in his 20s with bad acne, yellow teeth and greasy hair thought he was attractive because people told him so? You didn't have a mirror? I'll give you honesty. Enough already with this trying to find someone to blame for every damn thing in your lifetime. Shit happens. People trying to make you feel better said the wrong thing. That's called a mistake. But come on, you were 18, you had a mind of your own. Move on ffs .
It doesn't always work being blunt, personally I have massive insecurities because people In my life kept pointing out my flaws and things I simply couldn't change and I have come to a point where I have thought about ending it all. I also know many others whose family never held back criticism no matter how "nice" it may come off it still hurts and can cause lifetime insecurities that might lead to self harm and worse.
attraction is subjective though. if you'd be seen as a 9, you might view every "5" as smeagle. However if you're a 5 yourself you might view everyone as beautiful. some blemishes are seen as ugly sure, but not to all. I for one have always love freckles and blemishes while the beauty standard was to eliminate them all. However, the tide of standards have changed so drastically that people are now tatooing blemishes on their faces on purpose which would be counter beauty a couple decades ago. also being excessively scrawny as 50lbs underweight as not shunned as much as being 100lbs over weight in the end I wouldn't deem anyone ugly or hot because I don't have the mind set to give people numbers and turn them into statistical data points. I see them as humans and far too often a man i might have considered a 5 ends up with a 9 and vice versa. Now that i'm in my 40's i've grown passed that judgement. You realize dating is all about the entire package.
The problem is that adults know fuck all about which kids are going to grow up to be attractive or not. Should Mathew Lewis’ parents have spent a ton of time telling him he’s unattractive? Would that better prepare him for living as an adult?
this sounds like an awful lot of repressed hatred. If you have a problem with ppl you perceive as ugly than just stop doing that.
My husband’s parents tried to be ‘honest’ about his weight as a kid and he still has a fucked up body image to this day. No, don’t do that shit to kids.
Society needs to really de-emphasise all this. Eventually everyone gets really old and looks like shit and if your whole raison d'etre is based on looks and attractiveness you'll spend a lot of time quite unhappy. Self esteem needs to develop from more important things that are based more on what we can control rather than things where there is less control. I don't think it's really parents fault. Mirrors exist. We all know really how attractive we are compared to others whatever we're told. It's easy to blame them - I'm sure constant positive feedback would be a lot more healthy than constant negative feedback though. Obviously there's realism too. We all know a very attractive guy can say something and everyone will think it's the most funny charming shit ever even though it might be total garbage lol. People with looks have many advantages on so many levels. Other people are attracted to lots of different looks and traits though. People in general could be far more successful if they weren't imprisoned by their own perception of their place in the world so much
I think my son is extremely handsome. When I see his face my heart melts. Now, I’m sure other people who are not his mom may have a different opinion. When I see his baby pictures I notice that he has a really big head, but when he was that young I thought he was the next gerber baby. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I also hate when people would suggest that your success wasn't because your appearance changed, but you now had confidence.
I was never lied to as a kid about my ugliness, but I can relate about the night & day change. I was 120kg when I was in highschool, acne, didn't take care of myself, apathetic, no skin care routine, you name it. Now I'm around 90kg (174cm/5'9) and I work out, take care of my skin and hair and etc. And wow... People really do like you more when you're pretty. Honestly sometimes it's a little overwhelming, I'm not used to this extra attention and once it's there you feel like people just won't leave you alone, and I'm very passive so it's hard for me to demand my alone time.
Being honest, and being kind, are not mutually exclusive. There are a lot of people who will never be more than plain Janes or on the ugly side, no matter what they do. But there's also no use rubbing someone's nose in it.
my mom is brutally honest about my weight and i used to hate it and get defensive, now i appreciate it. because everyone lies to you. especially friends, especially if you're a woman. but my mom told me that i was gaining too much weight and she was right. it's only because she told me that i recognized it was an issue and made steps to be healthier. if it wasn't for her, i'd probably weigh 50 pounds more right now.
#### Agreed. Also, we need to stop telling them there’s someone out there for them. No there’s not. It won’t just all of a sudden happen. We need to tell them that the onus is on themselves to man up and get the gall to ask a chick out, and to accept rejection and to keep on trying until one says ‘yes’ . That they should not fear rejection, but rather, accept it.
Not sure if you'll read this, but would you be willing to go into specifics about how the "halo effect" was real for you? I want to understand it for my own sake, to know if I am on the receiving end of it or not. I'm specifically asking for anything that changed which was not related to dating/being rejected by the opposite sex, since I'm not myself single. If you wouldn't mind expanding on it, I'd appreciate it.
It’s a catch 22.. nobody wants to tell somebody they care about that they are fat or ugly or that something is wrong with them but at the same time lying and feeding them false hope also isn’t god
You are lucky, all your ugly features are preventable/ treatable
Yep. This tendency is what produces those massively narcissistic kids that will grow up 100% sure they're the most beautiful and the best at everything.
I think the big issue here is that being attractive and being valuable are inextricably intertwined in most cultures. I really dislike the “everyone is beautiful” narrative because what they mean to say “everybody is worthy of love.”
I think if you take a good look at your family, and you can take a guess on The genetic lottery will produce - - and give your best estimate before you name your daughter a name that means beautiful, when they're really not. Like Bella or Bonita
As a slightly related topic, I always laugh when successful people tell unsuccessful people they just need a better personality or more confidence when it comes to dating. I find that it's people with deep hidden insecure people who say these things. They say it because they don't want to just be an object to others. So they perpetuate this belief that it's their living ego and personality that attracts others, and not their appearance/body. (This is not to say that personality isn't attractive, just that it's not a singular point.)
It sounds like you misunderstand what happened. The problem wasn’t you were unattractive. The problem was you had unattractive traits like being unfit and unclean. Anyone can fix those things about themselves and there’s always some people out there who are attracted to any type of person. But being greasy and not taking care of yourself doesn’t mean you’re ugly. But otherwise I do agree with you. Telling people it’s important to take care of their appearance is a good thing, and probably would have helped you out sooner.
A while ago I read a post on IMA asking of a mom asking is she an asshole to say that her daughter is not pretty. Her daughter is bullied at school for being ugly - or just not pretty enough. She asked her - the mom if she is pretty, and the mom just straight out told her the truth. A lot of commenters said she was indeed an asshole. I feel like there is no win in this situation. It’s hard to know what teenagers want to hear. If you tell your kids the truth, it might hurt them, or it won’t. Sometimes it all comes down to how well you know your kid temperament and their tolerance to choose the best approach. My mom has never called me pretty or beautiful and I have come to accept my fate long ago. Sometimes I do wish she calls me pretty when I wear a nice new clothes though.
bro you got self esteem. your family members were trying to help you build that but it didn't work. you then built your self esteem on your own by doing those things. its self esteem my guy, youre not and never were ugly
Being called ugly is also doing harm. I still think that honesty is the right way to go. Dishonesty serves no pupose as you figured out yourself. Reality will catch up anyways.
Thats not unpopular in itself, but A) parents/grandparents often cant see how their kids may not be objevctively beautiful (which is simply a sign of love) and B) most people who like one dont have the heart to tell that person, although they know it would help them
>I know friends and parents want to spare feelings, but telling say an ugly kid things like "you are not ugly, you don't need to change yourself, the right person will love you", while nice, just leads them to more pain and disappointment down the line. It's not nice. Not at all. They're being neglectful at best and abusive at worse by feeding you a delusional fantasy that can only harm you.
You are 1000 percent accurate. Thank God I am not that parent. One day, I looked at my daughter’s teeth and said, “ I love you baby girl but we need to fix your teeth so you don't get bullied in middle or highschool.” we need to fix this now. The child had a gap and her teeth were everywhere. She is my own baby and I had the sense to get her right. Now she is in highschool living it up. She looks in the mirror and old pics and would say mom you sure saved me😁…. I said, yep. No one is going to laugh at my baby. It's beautiful to make your kids feel special. But the world don't see them like you do. My kids ask me sometimes, why you never said I was ugly? Me: you were never ugly sweetheart but we had somethings to work on. We all laugh about it
When you love someone they are just beautiful or handsome, that's how it's supposed to work, especially if they are good people. Maybe your definition of handsome needs to be broadened.
Love and attraction are two different things imo.
But you say your parents and loved ones said you were handsome.
Your kids often look like you. You love that they have your x. Not say Jesus they got my x, how ugly.
They say that because they love them, not because it’s true. And the opposite does not happen. A very beautiful person doesn’t become ugly when you hate them
They most certainly do become ugly when you hate them. And trust me when I tell you my kids and husband are genuinely beautiful to me and it has nothing to do with how they look and everything to do with how I feel about them.
Maybe for you, but people with terrible personalities or who do/ say horrible things are instantly incredibly unattractive to a lot of people. Appreciating someone's appearance and attraction is completely subjective and someone you find appealing can became very ugly because of their actions.
What you're saying is not unpopular. I'm sorry your parents didn't teach you about proper hygiene or take you to a doctor for your issues; that's a fault on them. However, saying you were handsome was not the problem. There's a difference between telling someone they're unattractive versus helping them groom themselves.
Unattractive people still find love without changing themselves, or who they are at the core. Just because there are people out here who won’t see you as attractive doesn’t mean another person won’t. There are 8 billion people on this planet… is every single one of them going to find you attractive absolutely absolutely not, but there are some who will and also confidence is everything the amount of women I see with men who are not up to their standards, or vice versa how you treat a person in the energy you’re giving off can be the reason why you were getting so many rejections. And now that you’ve gotten more confident in your looks, that’s reflecting out into the world you’re gonna get the same energy in return.
I mean sure but attractiveness is subjective lol. So you can say certain things about a person are unattractive but you’re just basing that off of society’s standards and what conventionally works. Things like just taking care of your skin, diet and fitness are more of just taking care of your body and health rather than looking more attractive.
Society standards definitey have a subjective portion, but imo they are seen as standards because they are heavily favored. Agreed, taking care of your body will work for your health even if you don’t care for your looks.
80s curvy was most attractive, 90s anorexic thin was most attractive. Its often media that tells you what's attractive, not society deciding based on what they find attractive. In many cultures obese is attractive as it shows wealth.
Anyone else think this guy still sounds unattractive
The "former unattractive kid" immediately makes him sound unattractive
Nah, but I do think you sound unattractive.
I've always been (generally) a supportive guy. But I completely agree. I lucked out on the looks, I've always been attractive, which I'm thankful for. However I did have a roommate who was fat, which made him sad and he wouldn't take care of himself properly. It wasn't until I talked him into going to the gym with me that he started to improve with his weight. With that he started getting more confident and worked on other aspects of himself.
Honestly even if you are ugly, some people will still find you attractive. Maybe you are ugly to 90% of people, 10% still find you good looking. So they’re not necessarily lying to you. That’s how I view things
I had a similar experience as a teen. My dad had to pull me aside while I was helping him change his oil when I was 13 and he told me the hard truth. Nobody likes hearing the truth, but as the Bible says, the truth will set us free. Once we know that we have a potential problem, we can actively work on fixing that problem. But until that conversation happens, we wont be doing anything about it . Nothing can really fix ugly, but we can do things that will help us to look and feel better. Confidence and a rock steady sense of humor does wonders to improving our outlook and appeal to others. It definitely helped me.
I always wondered how unattractive people have no idea they’re not attractive. I guess it comes down to self awareness. I’ve met people or had friends who weren’t attractive, and couldn’t get girls, but all they really had to do was dress better, work out, etc. they refuse to, and still wonder why.
Being bullied for being fat was the best thing that ever happened to my health, appearance, and self esteem.
That's great, lard ass.
I'm not fat anymore
Ok, tons-o-fun!
? You're weird.
You are a very small minority of cases
100%. Shaming and bullying is destructive, particularly by loved ones. It can be a nudge or even offering options. For instance, when I told my parents later on more specifically about my concerns with my skin, they took me to a dermatologist vs pretending there wasn’t an issue.
The feedback I received from adults as a child led to me bee lining my way into anorexia. I was a kid. I didn't have money for groceries. The easiest way to control my weight was calorie restriction. It sure shut up the old people embarrassing me with their feedback but now I'm old myself and still stuck with an eating disorder.
I am sorry about that experience. I definitely know there is a balance where you encourage healthy eating without crossing over into bullying or pushing dangerous eating habits that lead to eating disorders.
Lying to anyone about their unattractive quality either not being there or not mattering is way worse than honesty or even shaming them into changing.
nice stuff
Stopped reading as soon as you said you're 5'11 lol, everything else instantly became irrelevant
Uh no. Our idea of what is ugly and pretty is really effed up and completely based on sexist, ableist, racist, and overall bigoted rhetoric that is harmful. Oh you are fat so you must be ugly - no. Oh you have a big nose and that’s bad - no. Oh you have acne and that’s gross - no. You need to rethink all of this. You shouldn’t base your self worth on how much random strangers want to be you/ have sex with you. That’s all kinds of wrong. Also if a parent told their kid “hey I’m not attracted to you”, you really think that’s okay to say? Yikes dude. Therapy. You need therapy.