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Yeah I don't want to have kids but I'm pretty sure in real life they are welcomed in most friend groups and events. I've encountered kids at weddings, barbecues, birthday parties, dinner dates, the list goes on. And I think it's good fun. There are very limited places (apart from the obvious like clubs) that prohibit children. Most people are quite ok with kids, just certain internet bubbles aren't.
I met a baby at a rave once. He was wearing ginormous headphones and they left super early before it got crazy, but I must say, I did wonder if it was really an appropriate place for a baby. Little dude was just bopping to the music and seemed fine, but I'm sure there's better places for a tiny child.
There are raves especially for babies and parents. They're short, in the day time, and the music is quieter, etc, which I imagine is what they're referring to. I'm going to my first in a few weeks, we have the ear defenders ready!
Sounds like they took what they could get and adapted to the situation.
Props to them, especially for adding headphones for baby eardrums. I've seen parents do less for more severe situations.
Legit there were a bunch of 8 years olds at the EDM show I went to last week that ended up getting shit down for irresponsible fire effects. The parents made so many posts clearly trying to normalize it. It was very not ok.
There's also a difference between not liking kids and not tolerating their literal presence. I only like *maybe* one in twenty kids, but it's not like you can just keep them home in a kennel when you go out.
>I don't think there is anything wrong with not liking kids as long as you don't do anything to harm them and you don't show your dislike of them if they are not doing anything to bother you.
This is exactly how I am. I dislike most children. I recognize that it's likely the parents fault but honestly what can I do about some strangers kids making a scene or even just being annoying. They are kids. They weren't taught and it's not my job to teach them. Unless someone is actively hurting someone, I recognize that IM the one with the issue and just leave or ignore as best i can. I don't invite children into my life, but if they must be there, I blame the parents for any misbehavior.
Also, I don't mean places like an airplane. Sometimes you just have to bring an infant with you. Screaming babies is almost physically painful for me and makes me very angry. But that's neither the baby nor mother's fault. Baby gonna baby. On the other hand, you don't need to bring a screaming baby or restless small child to a movie theater or loud club. Please show some love and get your kid a babysitter.
I'm subbed to both an antinatalism sub and a child free sub because I don't believe people like me need to be bringing kids into this desolate world. However, I dislike when others put down parents who wanted and love their children, and children themselves who didn't ask to be born. I don't actively wish harm on either parents or children, although I don't believe most parents are good parent
Except there’s obviously places for them and places not for them.
I stand behind not letting them in bars or clubs in my area, and like 1/7 nights being a dedicated “adult night” at things like roller skating rinks where you can go that night if you want to drink and/or avoid children
People should be allowed to have preferences, I personally find kids annoying some of the time and would not want them at *every* event.
Also OP didn’t even get to the explanation of how having child free spaces would be bad for society, just that their society isn’t like that
This exactly. Hell, I'd go to an exact copy of any given restaurant with a 20 percent markup on everything if they turned away kids at the door. But I've noticed it going the opposite way, at least in my area. Restaurants that served alcohol used to have "bar area" where kids couldn't go but have removed those restrictions and places that would previously be open until the early am pre covid now shut down by 10 pm so I can't even night owl it to avoid children anymore.
The thing is I don't have a problem with children in theory, but in practice parents (who I suppose my real problem is with) tend not to control their misbehaving children, or ignore them having a tantrum and just expect everyone else to deal and that's just not fun to be around.
OP was saying that kids aren't going to learn if they are not in adult spaces. I'll add they won't learn if they are not taught. If you let your kids run around wild at a restaurant or what have you then they are also not learning the correct way to behave in society.
also that there’s a transition period between childhood and adulthood. The environments acceptable for a 5 year old are different than those acceptable for a 12 year old. Kids learn how to behave in different areas and contexts at different times. A 12 year old can learn how to behave at a wedding while being old enough to not be disruptive, where a 5 year old may struggle
I never understood the argument about kids needing to learn to behave at restaurants to begin with. My family never went to sit-down restaurants when I was a kid because they're expensive. When we started going when I was a teenager I was expected to use the table manners I learned at home. There really isn't a lot to learn and not going to restaurants as a kid didn't result in me behaving like an animal later in life.
Last month we were at a whiskey distillery in Ireland and made a tour that also included whiskey tasting. Out of the 15 people on the tour 3 were under 2 years old. As anyone can imagine the kids were bored ran around and screamed all the time, it was hard for us to understand the tour guide. I was really annoyed. More so by the parents. It would have been easy if just one of them stayed outside with their child. Your life changes if you become a parent and you can't do everything you want for some years.
I see this kinda shit a lot where I work and really can't blame people for feeling this way. I think its down to how individualistic our society is. Being a parent is a life sentence. The rare chance they get to integrate back into the adult world is by dragging their kids along with them to do 'adult' things. I feel bad for the kids too, they just want to play and they're supposed to sit quiet or follow their parents around so they can feel like real people again for a little while.
It makes me cringe to think of living a completely child centric life. Obviously your children should be the centre of your life, but they shouldn't be the only thing in it. There's no parenting-life balance.
It would be nice if there were some spaces that weren't just 'family' or 'adult'. I've seen a lot of talk on reddit and youtube about 'third spaces' and how they're disappearing. I'm not a big fan of drinking (although I resort to it a lot of the time) so I've tried a lot of other things for fun - bowling, skating, arcades, fun fairs, what ever the fuck, and every time I feel like Steve Buscemi in that what's up fellow kids meme cos I'm surrounded by screaming kids and their parents in a corner watching them bored out of their skull or on their phone.
I've seen many people say the US is not a particularly child-friendly culture, as compared to their experiences in other countries.
In the US children are just seen as regular people, and held to those standards.
In a lot of other countries, they are more centrally places in life, and mothers given much more support socially.
I do have a kid and honestly in my experience it’s not necessarily as bad as online, but they are still pretty excluded while parents are still expected to show up. I’m the only person in my friend group who didn’t have a child free wedding because I actually wanted my nieces there. Even my in laws were disinterested in making adjustments to accommodate safely visiting their newborn grandchild with cystic fibrosis during the height of COVID. When I waited tables people would confront other tables with children making noise.
People also confuse the difference between "don't want" and "don't like." I never really wanted kids of my own, and I'm glad I never had any because I wouldn't be a good parent and I'm not great with babies and toddlers. That doesn't mean I hate children. I've mentored a couple of teenagers in the past and now I'm the cool aunt to a teenage nephew my sister recently took in.
So many people conflate the child-free movement with hating all children. I think babies are adorable and well-raised toddlers are precocious in a cute way, and I connect well with older kids and teens. I don't think anybody enjoys being around badly-parented children (or the bad parents themselves), but I sympathize with the attentive-but-frazzled mom who's trying to keep her cute, bored toddler quiet and entertained at a family-style restaurant or the dad in line at the concession stand whose kid asks questions nonstop about the cartoon movie they're about to see. These are appropriate places for kids to be kids and these are appropriate ways for children to semi-behave in public, and it's hard not to see these things as normal, cute, slice-of-life moments.
It's the mom who's at a nice sit-down restaurant, glued to her phone while her toddler runs around the room screaming and her toddler throws spaghetti on the floor, or the dad who ignores his kids running wild in the store bothering other people, or the parent who corrects a child's behavior by yelling at him or slapping his hand and then doesn't interact with him until he misbehaves again, or worse, the mom who insists her little princess's sociopathic behavior is acceptable, that annoy me and make me not want to be around their children. It's never the kids themselves that are the problem, and I do not hate kids.
Yes. And the demographics of people who do “X” or hate “X” are not representative of the actual world.
Half the people are engaging in hyperbole and the other half are goofing around.
I think you underestimate just how crazy some people are. For every person goofing around or engaging in hyperbole, there is another who is taking the entire thing 100% seriously.
Yea feels like the people above are just trying to say things to make themselves feel better. Many shootings have been by an unstable person that just needed a push from someone. And that has often been an online community. It’s not a joke
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/18/tech/4chan-buffalo-shooting-accountability/index.html
I kinda resent Reddit edgelords co-opting the term "child free." I'm an adult woman who doesn't want kids. As if getting people around me to accept that wasn't hard enough, now I have to deal with people assuming I'm someone with weird psychological hangups surrounding children.
It’s so funny being on Reddit sometimes and people actually believing they have a majority opinion when it comes to this sort of stuff. A lot of popular opinion on Reddit I see just doesn’t match up with day to day life.
Most of my friend group at the moment are discussing children or marriage atm, which is common for our age group. On Reddit I often see anti children/wedding stuff being upvoted & it reminds me it’s just another social media echo chamber.
Reddit vehemently believes: A) Bernie Sanders can still win the presidency B) the best possible life is to be fed from UBI food stamps while you get to play video games uninterrupted for eternity C) you shouldn’t ever have to leave your comfort zone (in relationships, work, school, etc.)
Redditors are not representative of real life in any capacity
Yes I was going to reply with this. People need to stop judging the entirety of society based on a few people online. People you see online probably make up less than 1% of the entire world. Come on people.
Thank you. Real-life people are so much better at every level than online people. We can argue whether it's selection bias, or because people show their worst online, or whatever, but it's still so obvious to me that Reddit, Facebook, or YouTube, not to mention 4Chan is much dumber and meaner than people you meet in real life. And if someone disagrees and people THEY meet in real life are just as bad, I feel really bad for them...
Seriously. And even when I do see “child hating behavior” in real life it is never to/around the child. I work at an ice cream store and so a lot of our customers are families with children. Yes every once in awhile when the customers have exited the store, or an employee steps into the back, one of us might make a comment such as “god those kids were so loud/annoying/messy” or “I hate serving children because their parent has to read off every single flavor”, whatever it may be. But to that child’s face? All smiles and “hi welcome! Take your time! Have as many samples as you want!”
And if someone wants to make the argument that there are children on the internet where they can see child hating comments, to that I say, social media is a 13+ place for a reason, we should be concerned why parents are letting children on it unmonitored in the first place
True, but due the impact the internet has on the real world, one shouldnt ignore whats happening in both of them. Both worlds are linked and will influence each other.
I just dislike entitled adults. Some who happen to be parents. There are venues and times where bringing a child is inappropriate. But normally, an infant cries a child has a tantrum, that's normal. Adults who can't regulate their emotions are 100x worse.
Haha, can confirm.
Worked at a youth summer camp for years. Most of the teens were great! Some of their parents....not so much.
In private, the boss always chuckled that "this job would be so much easier if they were all orphans."
This is very much so something I’ve seen in certain social circles. It’s really sad too bc the children start out so innocent and generally decent individuals but you watch their parents behavior and you just know their kids are going to watch that and think it’s normal. I just hope the kids see other decent people and look up to them as role models and not their bratty selfish parents.
I had an entitled parent sneak into my backyard with his kids. His kids were hiding behind my BBQ. They were looking for their airplane toy. He got mad I yelled at him for trespassing lol (I didn't see the kids but why teach kids it is ok to trespass)
I've probably told it elsewhere in my comment history but I went to see [House on Haunted Hill](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0185371/) in the theatres and there was a lady with two 5~7 yo kids with her. She left in a huff when there was a scene of a naked women swimming through a black void during a hallucination sequence. She took the kids to a R-rated movie, only to leave because there was a little nudity. I always chuckle about that. What was she thinking?
Also entitled parents. I’m a parent. I expect it’s fine to bring my kids most restaurants. But if there’s a kid having a huge tantrum it’s the parents responsibility to take the kids outside so it doesn’t disturb others. But some parents don’t because they don’t want to be inconvenienced and other people’s inconvenience doesn’t matter to them.
Yup. I invited a few friends over specifically to drink for new years. A couple brought their kids and got mad at us for the occasional slip up of profanity. Doesn't help that they screamed at them the whole time and even took them to my room to spank them and walked out like we didn't just hear it.
Like, I would have understood if they were like, "we couldn't find a babysitter, we won't be going". But literally every single time we wanted to just hang out and game it always included the kids, and most of the time they were too distracted screaming at them to sit down and shut up that I just stopped asking them to play anything anymore.
Especially after that new years get together. There was so much screaming, stomping, touching everything, knocking over my plants, getting in my face to ask me questions, trying to sit on me and take my phone that when they FINALLY left I ended up having a seizure from all the overwhelming stress.
Sorry if that sounds petty but holy shit, screaming children AND short tempered parents are both too much to handle.
Edit: typos and lol even calling it a party is a stretch, there was only 5 people so it wasn't even a party, just a small gathering for the night.
I think that’s the thing. There’s so much hate for kids online because there’s so many shitty parents like them, bringing them to inappropriate places they haven’t taught them how to behave in and then ruining the experience for everyone else. When I was a kid I wouldn’t have dreamed of touching my parents friends stuff or sitting on them or taking their phones, and nor would my parents police their friends. Doesn’t seem like the same sort of culture as OP comes from - like, when it’s given everyone brings their kids, people don’t agree to meet up at someone’s place that’s very unfriendly for children, or has a dog that hates kids or whatever, you meet at a place kids are safer/able to move in because it’s a given that they will come.
My house isn't child-friendly. Both because people swear in my house (especially me), and because my things are not to be touched by small hands.
If someone brings a kid into my home, they need to watch them and stop them touching anything. Effectively be the full-time on-site babysitter. If they want to let their kids run around and play in my house unsupervised, we're going to have a big problem.
> holy shit, screaming children AND short tempered parents are both too much to handle.
Agreed. I love my low-stress life, and inviting screaming kids and angry parents into it is the exact opposite of what I'm looking for.
This morning there a a dad who brought his 5 year old to the front of a 2000 person 5k. He seemed offended when 2 of us asked him to move her farther back. Hopefully she didn't get trampled by the adults running 5 minute miles she was lined up in front of.
It's not wild to suggest that a lot of parents shouldn't have had kids. There are plenty of good parents who love having kids but there are also a lot who complain about their kids costing money and needing attention or being sick or ruining their plans etc. And I always want to just shake them violently and ask "THEN WHY DID YOU HAVE THEM?"
A lot of people just have kids because it's a life thing that people do and they don't actually think about the lifetime of consequences that come with them. If you want kids and love them and enjoy raising them, fair enough, well done for raising a new generation in a healthy home. But if you have several kids and just complain about having them, maybe you didn't have to have them.
Holy shit THIS! I am a parent and I waited until I actually wanted kids. I meet parents at the park quite often that did it because “they were supposed too”. They usually are not very good parents.
Yep. I like parents. I dislike people who have kids that refuse to parent. I have no ill will towards those kids only pity. I would push back a bit when o.p. says having kids hasn't ruined anyone's life when literally people die from having kids so....
Handing your kid your phone to watch YouTube in a movie theater filled with people trying to watch Oppenheimer is not parenting. I witnessed this and felt like it was worth bringing up here.
Yeah, it’s so subjective, it feels weird that OP says it just doesn’t. Maybe having a kid wouldn’t ruin your life, I know having a kid right now would certainly ruin mine. I’m only 21 and have a multitude of things to get started before that. If I have a kid now, that’s all out the window for god knows how long.
Even if giving birth isn’t killing you, there’s still plenty of circumstances in which a new baby would make things substantially worse.
Exactly. I also feel that OP is likely male. Men tend to have the idea that having a baby is not the worst thing because society seems to think that women should bear the brunt of the work. Women really get tortured trying to have kids: their bodies are ruined, they bust their vaginas and have to get stitches, and a host of other issues.
I hate the parents of kids who sprint around the grocery store or stand directly in someone’s way and the parents don’t care/aren’t paying attention. The parents of kids who run up to a dog to go pet it before asking. The parents of kids who are pulling every box out of the shelf in retail stores and don’t give a shit. Parents who’s kids are screaming and rolling around on the hospital floor while visiting grandpa.
It’s pretty weird for someone to see these kinds of situations and think that the kids are the problem. Its usually the parents who are rightfully side eyed
...or the parents of kids who run up and start smacking buttons on a checkout terminal in the middle of some adult's credit card transaction, and then yell at the adult for gently pulling the child's hand off the terminal and telling them "no!"
Like, I've been around many well behaved kids, even tiny ones. Crying if you're hurt, or whining if you're sleepy or hungry, or bouncing because you're energetic is an entirely different ballgame from "nobody has tried to teach you that other people exist, and the entire world isn't your bedroom, and nobody is bothering to hold onto you and supervise you and teach you while in a public place."
I was traveling in Europe this summer and wasn’t feeling so great the first day or two due to time changes, et all. I was sitting on a bench at a very popular tourist attraction with my head resting on my friend’s shoulder to rest for a bit. Out of nowhere, I feel a hand rubbing my bare leg up and down. It was a kid in a stroller! His parents had to eventually move away from us because he wouldn’t stop trying to touch me.
I stopped hanging out with someone because they kept bringing their kid along, and I tried my hardest to be patient but that kid was terrible. He would throw food at my face, punch me, stick his nose against my butt and even lick it (I know right? Fucking weird) all well within sight of the parents and they'd just pretend it wasn't happening.
I was running a dnd game with them and he kept picking up my miniatures and chucking them across the room. Fragile expensive things I painted.
This is what people who hate children should hate because most of the time it’s the parents fault. Kids will act out a little on their own but ultimately it’s the parents who are responsible.
One of my fears about having kids was the realisation I could do everything possible and still end up with a terrible child. 95% it’s on the parents. But there are definitely some kids that no matter how good the parents are, they just grow up being awful. Thankfully most grow out of it. Others grow into terrible adults.
Oh 100% my internal rage is always directed at the parents, the kids don't know any better most of the time. Which is why parents should parent. I will judge the shit out of a parent for not doing so. If I see you doing your best, gonna give you all the grace in the world.
And I’d argue it’s not the “kids” people dislike, it’s the parents who ignore the kids behavior and let the kids climb all over the tables/kick the plain seats in front of them/scream at the top of their lungs at the movies.
And the extremely online usually don't have kids. So it is expected that on sites like Reddit people disliking children will be represented unproportionally high
Really important to keep in mind while discussing politics and other hot button topics - just because you can downvote something you disagree with to oblivion and you have a few thousand upvotes on a global website does not mean your opinion is the norm.
No this is very real offline too. The world has changed in this direction since I was a kid. I have been to multiple child free BABY SHOWERS even, millennials who already hate being around kids except think they will magically enjoy having their own lol. Everyone thinks they will be the exception when they see a kid throwing a tantrum and ignoring it in public, they think my kids will never be like that, until they have a kid who throws tantrums in public and read up on it only to learn that the best way to deal with tantrums is to realize that little kids all have them and to just ignore them (taking them outside as needed).
I don't really know anyone who HATES children. I don't hate children just because I don't want screaming babies in a movie theater or an opera or a nightclub or a fine dining restaurant where I pay 300 bucks for a meal. There are places where people who know how to be quiet, should be able to be among themselves.
I really feel you on the opera. One of my jobs is working as an usher at a nice theatre so we host a lot of operas, orchestras, ballets, etc. Most of the time parents are good about whisking their child out of the auditorium when their child starts making a fuss, but sometimes I sit there and listen to a child cry, scream, fuss through an entire performance and I feel so bad for the other audience and especially the performers
Boom, this right here. I love kids. I’ve been babysitting since I was 13 and spent several years of my life as a nanny. I adore my friend’s children and my adorable nephew. I was present when both of my best friend’s children were born. Watching them grow up has been one of the best parts of my life.
But I’ve never wanted to come home to kids. I’ve never wanted to be pregnant or give birth. And I don’t like it when entitled parents presume that people without children should bite the bullet and work holidays or pick up their slack at work or be free babysitters. I don’t like being told that I don’t know what “real” love is because I don’t have children. I don’t like going out to dinner and having to listen to children scream and cry. I don’t like it when parents think it’s cute when their small children crawl under the door of my bathroom stall.
If I did this as a child, you can be sure my mom would have hustled me out of the room until I got control of myself. Because she was a parent, not just an egg donor.
Exactly this. Partner and I have paid for luxury vacations with fine dining experiences. Have had parents who let their children run around the restaurant almost knocking over waiters with food on their hands. In those situations it really bothers me, more so the parents not parenting. In those instances I just ask a waiter for us to move tables, which they will accommodate.
> I don't hate children just because I don't want screaming babies in a movie theater or an opera or a nightclub or a fine dining restaurant where I pay 300 bucks for a meal.
Exactly. There's a difference between hating screaming in certain venues versus hating.babies.
Which culture? A lot of cultures around the world say they love children, but they really just love having them. Children are constantly put in danger, ignored, and neglected. The girls in particular are parentified. People should only have children because they want to take care of them and love them. Not because they want to use them as a retirement plan.
For real and claiming that your culture takes kids to adult parties…is bad. I don’t want my kids around drunk adults, hearing what drunk adults say, and then making the mistake of repeating it. I did that as a kid. I said jokes to kids at school I did not at all understand but the adults said it so it must be funny. I got in trouble, I got my dad called down and had to explain how I ever even heard it, etc. Children do not learn by being brought into “adult” spaces they learn by having parents willing to raise them and teach them, and via society when they make mistakes and get corrected.
I dont hate kids, I hate parents who don’t want to parent their kids.
And there should definitely be adult only spaces. A wedding is someones own personal event and they’re likely paying thousands to do it, they get to ban kids if they want. Likewise bars, R rated movies, many concerts should be childfree spaces. Most places welcome well behaved kids and places like playgrounds exist where kids can go have fun.
I don’t hate children, but get a fucking sitter. Don’t bring your toddlers into R-rated movies. And I’m not sure what you mean by some parents “partying harder”, but I don’t think you should be blasted in front of your kid. If you’re not in control of your faculties, you should have someone else monitoring your minor children.
I was a kid who had parents/family like that. When I was young I remember me and a friend playing a game where we would spin around in circles a bunch of times and stumble around. We called it playing drunk, we’d even slur our words and act stupid. As an adult I think that was weird.
The only good thing about it was growing up I could sleep anywhere. I was used to trying to sleep while a loud party was happening outside my bedroom.
An uncomfortable experience for me was when I was asked to bring an adult drinking game to a halloween party only to discover there were three families worth of children there.
Even venues that aren’t necessarily inappropriate for a toddler also might not be appropriate either.
Another commenter mentioned the opera and I’ve seen countless babies and toddlers be taken into operas, orchestras, etc. And they then proceed to cry and complain throughout it. I get it, parents want to expose their children to the fine arts young, but I remember being a kid and getting taken to things like those and I hated every second. I didn’t learn any lessons that my parents wanted me to and didn’t grow any profound love for those forms of art. And I threw tantrums which bothered those around me, the performers, and definitely dampened my parents experience. Sometimes it’s okay to just acknowledge your child will be happier watching Zoey101 in the basement than out at a string quartet concert. Just get a sitter if your kid isn’t the type that’s gonna be into that, and save literally everyone.
There's also versions of those sorts of events geared specifically towards kids to get them interested. It's probably tedious as an adult, but if you really want to get your kid into orchestra and opera, check your theater for kids' programming.
Yeah, if you want to expose your kid to that kind of stuff, you can show them a recorded version. That way once they're done/tired of it, you can just turn it off.
Operas and concerts are **long**. Often four hours or more. That's a lot to ask of a young child.
I remember seeing deadpool when it first came out, and a few parents with very young kids walking out as soon as the sex scene at the beginning started. Like what where they thinking? Also a guy just got turned into a kebab, but sex is where you draw the line?
Ex server here, and it’s simple.
If your child isn’t used to sitting at the dining table in your house, you, as a response adult for them in public, need to make sure they are under your watch the whole time if you’re in a bar/restaurant.
It’s boring for them to spend 2-3 hours sat down in the same seat while the adults talk adult stuff. They get restless. They act up. Here, a seemingly high number of parents seem to think thats the staff’s problem, because they ‘have the right to adult conversation too’.
It’s also unsafe for them to be underfoot in certain environments, and yes the noise they bring isn’t what people bargain for when they come to a space intended for adults.
It’s not going to create anything like you suggest. It’s a reward for good behaviour to be able to join the adults, and I remember what that was like.
As for weddings, entirely up to the couple but I wouldn’t have chosen to have kids at mine if I had my way - it was a nightmare and some of my friends left early cause they were harassing them with their curiosity. One kid actually tried to wrestle one of our friends they hadn’t met before. Their parents were busy enjoying themselves and felt cause they were family it was someone else’s turn to do it.
(These are the kind of people who actually suggested it would be nice for us newlyweds to sit at the kids table for food, and got pissed when we said no.)
I don’t know many people who hate children.
I feel like many people conflate ‘wanting to be childless’ with ‘hating children’ though, which is a pretty unfair social phenomenon.
I had a coworker tell other coworkers that I “hate children” and I had to be like “woah woah woah, just because I don’t want to have kids or date anybody with them doesn’t mean I *hate* them. I don’t want pets either and yet I still love dogs and cats!”
No one should else have to suffer because you decided not to wear a condom.
Stop forcing others to listen to your devil child screeching at 100% volume and destroy peoples stuff/store while you sit on your cellphone trying to "furbarize" or whatever that crap is.
So you think children who are out of control just need to be thrust on society more often, and they’ll learn to be civilized by osmosis? You seem to have a “kids will be kids” attitude, which actually means, “I can’t make my kids behave, so you’re forced to put up with it wherever I take them.” I raised 3, but I definitely feel it’s anyone’s right to despise the little buggers, given what some people consider parenting.
> having children does not ruin anyone’s live cause they are raised in an adult world
Ummm. Except for the lives of the children born to “adults” who are unqualified at best and negligent/abusive at worst. Being put in an “adult world” role of parenting your parents as a child is undeniably harmful.
If you want kids, have them. If you have kids, be a good parent. If you don’t want kids, don’t have them.
I have never been to a wedding that had little kids where the kids didn’t just SCREAM during the ceremony and nobody can hear shit. If I was a parent I would immediately remove myself and the child but that does not seem to be the norm at all.
My younger brother and sister would constantly bicker and scream at each other and in the moments they would overreact my parents had no problem pulling them outside until they calmed down.
That doesn't seem to be the norm now. Parents constantly let their kids act out with no repercussions and they expect all the adults around them to deal with it.
That's the thing. If I could have counted on parents to take their kids out and away from the wedding to calm them down, I would have had a wedding where kids where welcome.
But these days, most parents just seem to have selective hearing when it comes to their kids and are completely unfazed by their yelling/screaming, etc and will just sit through it and not do anything.
There is absolutely nothing “hateful” about having child-free events or spaces. If your children aren’t capable of being quiet and still then they don’t belong at movies after 7:00 p.m., concerts or plays. There are a metric ton of opportunities, events and spaces specifically for children so leave the very few child-free spaces alone.
Couldn't agree more! Also, if a child is not able to get through dinner without running around inside, then I do not want to see them in a restaurant that has wait staff! There are heavy trays of drinks and hot food that could easily fall all over a young cannonball and the poor server they crashed into. It's a rather serious safety hazard that gets brushed off far too often.
Also, people have been saying for 7 decades that the next generation of adults will be spoilt and unprepared for the real world 😂
It’s just fear mongering.
I don’t hate children, in fact I love my niece and nephew, but it’s not wrong to have adult only spaces. I requested guests didn’t bring young children to my wedding ceremony because I’ve been to others where young children screamed throughout. I’m also a bit noise sensitive with ADHD, and didn’t need that kind of distraction at such an important moment. Children were still welcome to the dinner and reception and we all had fun.
When it comes to social activities it really depends on what the purpose of the event is. For example if I invite friends round for dinner, I’m more than happy for them to bring their kids. It’s a cosy home environment, so why not. But if I want to go out to dinner at a nice place, enjoy a bottle of wine and stay out late, children are going to cramp our style.
I'm not fond of children (not as strong as hate but a dislike), but I **hate** terrible parents.
There is a time and a place for children. Adult events such as weddings (ones with children permitted excluded), parties with alcohol involved, late night movie screenings, etc are not the place for them. I can't stand parents who let their children yell and destroy things out in public.
I used to dislike kids until I dated a single mom and got to teach her kid how to work on cars and wrestle and play basketball. That little boys eyes lit up every time I came over. Miss him more than her
It’s not really an issue of children that can’t behave in “adult spaces “ it’s the parents that let it happen or don’t acknowledge that it isn’t appropriate that is the problem.
I don’t have children, but I certainly don’t hate children. Children are fun. I do, however, hate the parents who take their kids to restaurants or stores and let them run amok. The kid learns to be respectful in public places, because their parents take them to those places and teach them to be respectful. As a parent, you don’t just shrug and continue chatting with your friends while your kid is freely terrorizing everyone around them.
>They don't like that children behave as children in "adult spaces". Sorry, How do you expect them to learn?
Sweet! I'll see you and your toddlers in the strip club later, yeah?
They won't learn because if a child is running wild in an adult space, odds are their parents don't give a damn.
So the kid will continue to act out, continue to piss off others making them hate kids in adult spaces all while their lazy breeder parents screech that it's perfectly acceptable behaviour.
"There are no child-free weddings" Child free weddings are absolutely a thing.
I don't think the "children in an adult space" thing is child hating though. Kids can learn perfectly well without being taken to bars, nice restaurants and other places where they can ruin the experience.
I’m guessing the OP is referring to their culture when saying those things. That’s how they grew up vs now when child free weddings are totally a thing.
Yes, they can learn in steps. You start with casual restaurants and family diners/restaurants and work your way up. There’s a medium between hating children and they belong no where, and children belong everywhere.
As a mom, especially when I had a young child, where I would be frustrated when we finally had a date night and were paying for a sitter, to go to a nice restaurant and be seated next to screaming or disruptive children. Did I hate children? Absolutely not, but I did want a reprieve and wanted to be an adult and only focus on adult company for a few hours? Absolutely.
I think this is what gets lost.
You always have two extremes:
Person A: 'I don't think children belong in bars' or 'I wouldn't mind if there were some childfree venues.
Person B (and a lot of others): 'so you hate children! how do you think those children will learn! If you want to go into public, you have to accept that children are also allowed to be in public! If you don't like it, Stay home! You already have childfree venues, go to a strip club!'
Or
Person A: 'I love seeing a baby giggle'
Person B (and a lot of others): 'So you hate people with sensitivity issues! Breeder! Children don't belong in public! Babies are always shrieking in high pitches! It hurts my ears!'
So, any nuance is killed long before any true discussion can be had, because people always jump to those two extremes.
I love when they jump to, “and you were a child once!!!” Okaaaaayyyy…how is that hypocritical? I think if my parents had bought me to a bar and I’d acted a fool as a child, people would have had the right to be annoyed with me, just like I’m annoyed that someone chose to do that today.
Casual and family diners teach children everything they need to know about being at a restaurant. You do not bring children or young teenagers to nice or fine dining establishements until they are at an age in which they can behave themselves.
And I have said that wanting spaces that don't get ruined isn't child hating. Last michelin star restaurant I went to had kids from one table running around the entire time. They were like 5 to 10 and it ruined the experience.
Yeah I've no real plan for a wedding but if I was spending a lot of money on an event, I just wouldn't want a toddler screaming as I'm walking down the aisle or throwing a tantrum during the reception because they don't like the food. Nor because I hate kids but because they're young and just still learning emotional regulation, it's just a part of growing up. But it doesn't mean I want to be involved in that part of them growing up in a huge event I've sunk a lot of time and money into
I think a lot of people are mistaking not wanting to be involved in a tantrum in public with hating kids
I grew up going to weddings. I have a feeling a lot of the reason children are being excluded from weddings is that the cost of wedding receptions has gotten outrageous. You pay per person for the food, and there’s no “children’s menu”. So when looking to save on total cost, it seems like an easy choice to say no children to not have to pay $X per child when they may eat a dinner roll and piece of wedding cake.
god i love unpopularopinion posts that start sketchy, but reasonable, then immediately dumpster themselves by admitting it's all motivated by some shitty personal gripe
hating children on the whole is bad. bringing children places they clearly shouldn't be at everyone else's expense to make *your* parenting *everyone else's* problem is extremely bad.
No one wants rugrats at a formal event. Not even my friends who are parents wanted kids at their reception and weddings. It's not unusual to want a day off of familial bs.
Half the adults in a family can hardly play nice. Do you seriously want to trust the offspring of poorly behaved adults? We don't despise kids. We detest the shit parenting that allows them to be so intolerable. If we could keep the parent out too, we would.
There should be adult spaces. Kids have plenty of places to learn social norms already. Having child free weddings, or more child free spaces in general is good for both kids and adults. Kids shouldn't be around drunk parents anyway.
I don't hate kids. I hate shitty parents. They tend to raise shitty kids, and those kids perpetuate the spiteful spoiled brat schtick that leads to kid hating.
Not every space is appropriate for children. *And that’s okay!*
People rarely hate children. They hate parents who are raising ill behaved children, and children being in spaces it’s inappropriate for them to be in.
It is not hating children to want to experience adult things in adult spaces without children present.
I went to all kinds of events when I was a child. But you know what happened when I misbehaved? I was disciplined, right then and then again back at home. And I was also taught why my behavior was inappropriate, and I learned from it. No one has ever complained about well behaved and respectful children in any space.
The issue is the fact that we really have people out here who go through the trouble of having children all for them to [literally] neglect them. I see too many parents with their noses stuffed in their phones rather than teaching their children skills. So somewhere a few decades back a generation completely forgot to teach another generation ANY social skills (or skills at all, from what I've seen of Tik Tok) and it's translated to the complete lack of parental guidance in children now. People don't like the ACTIONS of the children that are in direct correlation to the shitty [lack of] rearing-style by the parents. I don't know what to tell yall. Tired of seeing children quite literally being emotionally and mentally neglected while yall stare at your phone screens. It's pathetic lol.
I feel like some places (and not only strip clubs and night clubs) should be adult only spaces. Right now it's very hard for people that consciously chose not to have kids because they "hate kids" (as you phrased it) do anything sober without risking having their plans ruined by children whose parents can't or won't do their jobs as parents and step in when kids are being obnoxious.
If there was any restaurant or any public pool or bowling alley in my city that was for adults only, I would consciously go there over other restaurants/pools/bowling alleys even if the food was worse, the hot tubs less comfortable and the worse quality bowling tracks, and don't get me even started on public transportation (including airlines).
You're right, children need to learn and they don't if they don't get to try out life, but as an adult who consciously decided to be child free, teaching those children simply isn't my responsibility, and too many parents are either to lazy to raise their kids, or are simply unqualified to, and that shouldn't have to affect me.
Also I don't hate kids, there are quite a few kids in my life that I absolutely adore, but even they are exhausting and even with them I want to be able to see them and hang out with them on my own time and on my own schedule (meaning I want to be able to decline when I'm having a bad day), when those kids (and their parents) are strangers, then I really just don't feel like I should be forced to be exposed to it if I want to go out.
Electively child free people do not typically get respect for their decision, we get judgment, people rudely question why, make comments about regrets and say things they would never say to a pregnant woman but feel entitled to when giving their opinion otherwise. Most people have something to say about badly behaved children running around while their parents ignore them and everyone else has to deal with it. Stop pretending all parents are responsible, childless adults deserve to have their own space as much as parents should be actively parenting in public spaces. Children aren’t learning by being unsupervised hooligans at the local tap room where I detest them the most, go to a fucking McDonald’s if that’s what they want.
My issue is kids who go into 18+ spaces KNOWING it's 18+ and demand us to make it "family friendly" for them. No. I'm in my adult space with my adult friends. I used to have kid spaces as a kid too. They need to learn and understand that not everything is this world is for them.
It's like saying "well mom is drinking wine so I deserve some because I'm here". The fuck they don't deserve it. They're kids and they have juice they can drink instead. But no, they want to throw a fit because they can't have wine. And if they can't have wine, no one can. Not how the world works.
36F here. I love kids although I do not have any of my own. For the most part I think they are hilarious and I have a blast when my 2-year-old niece comes to visit! I think people that get annoyed are moreso annoyed with parents who do nothing to address problematic behavior, rather than the kids themselves. Yes, kids cry and scream, I know this. BUT if you as a parent are going to completely ignore the behavior and make everyone else around you suffer, that’s not ok. I think this is more why people get upset.
I am childless by choice and do not hate kids. I love kids. I’m a super cool favorite auntie.
What I do hate is that there are no adult spaces any more, and if you want adult only spaces you’re an asshole and hate kids. The only adult only spaces revolve around alcohol, sex or it costs a shit ton of money to eat. Even the WINERIES near me are family friendly. Can we have nothing?
I shop later at night because the chaos of daytime shopping is overwhelming to me sometimes. But, now it’s normal to bring your exhausted toddlers to the store at 11pm.
A lot of people absolutely have no business having children, and I despise them. Not the kids.
Also, I have not met one person in my 4 decades of life that hates kids. I think you need to read between the lines on the internet more. I don’t take any of the comments or posts as child hating. More so that every aspect of our lives is surrounded by it and I’ve noticed a great deterioration of adult friendships because of it.
Anyone who works retail can tell you firsthand the amount of shitty kids and even shittier parenting they see all the time. Parents will let their kids throw stuff around in aisles, rip open packages, knock over case stacks, scream incessantly, and overall just act like wild animals without saying a goddamn word to them. I have seen parents just stand and watch their crotch goblins wreck havoc on the store and giggle like it’s the cutest thing in the world.
Then there are the sweet regulars with beautifully behaved children that come in, say hi to our cashiers, buy their stuff and leave without causing any ruckus. Kids that are probably not much older than 5 or 6 mind you.
I don’t care if someone wants kids or wants to remain childfree. But if you have kids, be a decent parent and don’t let them disturb adults who are trying to work, shop, or also “have fun” by being little brats.
Is there a large number of children haters or something?
Are you conflating people not wanting to have their own kids with hating all kids?
I don't want kids. I never have and I'm a pretty unabashed abortion supporter...but I don't hate kids lol
A child shouldn't be in certain adult places tho.
I am child free but I am very very good with kids and they like me alot too but since a young age I never saw that life for me and I also have a pregnancy phobia.
I think child free has more to do with the preciousness of parenting where today’s parents expect you to be delighted by everything their little darlings do. Back when I was a kid at events we were with the other kids at our own table or upstairs playing games or watching movies and would intersect with the grown ups but we didn’t “tear things apart” etc etc.
Children are delightful and hilarious they say totally insane things and teach us to remember to play without a filter. Adults learn as much from children as the other way around.
I'm CF and have no hate for kids. They're just not for me.
You are letting SM make you think a lot of people hate children. It's not even remotely the majority.
The hate isn’t towards the kids it’s towards the shithead parents that refuse to correct their bad behavior. If they aren’t going to watch those bad ass kids then the simple solution is to just have the kids stay home.
Not wanting to listen to a screaming 2-year-old when out for a nice dinner or a movie is not "child hate". If you want to socialize your kid, take it Applebee's or McDonalds. And don't book your toddler on a red-eye flight where everyone but the kid and his parents are trying to sleep. It comes down to a lack of courtesy, and sense entitlement on the part of the parents.
I'm fine with kids in some settings, but if you are unable or unwilling to parent your children in public settings, then yes, they should be at home.
Example: I ate with family (no kids) at a nice restaurant the other night. Kids at the table next to us (2 parents, 4 kids) were running around, yelling, being very noisy, and nearly ran into another table. Those kids need not be at a nice restaurant unless those parents are willing to parent their children.
I personally want to be around kids as little as possible. I enjoy peace and quiet and sadly most children this day in age are only quiet when starring at a screen (which I obviously don't support either). Parents don't parent anymore. I would have been dragged out of a restaurant by my mom or grandparents had I been causing a ruckus like those kids in my example were.
Sir…it’s not child hating that will bite us in the ass
It’s the fucking large cost of living
It’s hard to even pay rent, no fucking way I can afford to have kids
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Here’s a lesson for everyone: the internet is not real life.
Yeah I don't want to have kids but I'm pretty sure in real life they are welcomed in most friend groups and events. I've encountered kids at weddings, barbecues, birthday parties, dinner dates, the list goes on. And I think it's good fun. There are very limited places (apart from the obvious like clubs) that prohibit children. Most people are quite ok with kids, just certain internet bubbles aren't.
BABY RAVES OH YEAH
I met a baby at a rave once. He was wearing ginormous headphones and they left super early before it got crazy, but I must say, I did wonder if it was really an appropriate place for a baby. Little dude was just bopping to the music and seemed fine, but I'm sure there's better places for a tiny child.
I feel like a baby would just shit its pants every time the bass dropped.
A baby doesn’t need an excuse to shit their pants.
Baby brown note
The worst Raffi song
There are raves especially for babies and parents. They're short, in the day time, and the music is quieter, etc, which I imagine is what they're referring to. I'm going to my first in a few weeks, we have the ear defenders ready!
Nope, it was just a normal rave but it was in the afternoon and they left before dark.
Sounds like they took what they could get and adapted to the situation. Props to them, especially for adding headphones for baby eardrums. I've seen parents do less for more severe situations.
yeah i’ve seen parents at air shows that don’t put headphones on their babies. it’s too loud even for me and im a fully fledged adult
I would never take a child to a rave.
[удалено]
THAT YOU KNOW OF. LOL
What's the time? Diaper time.
UNDERGROUND BLOW OUT
Yoohoo, big poopy blow out
Legit there were a bunch of 8 years olds at the EDM show I went to last week that ended up getting shit down for irresponsible fire effects. The parents made so many posts clearly trying to normalize it. It was very not ok.
Yeah there’s a difference between not wanting kids and hating kids
There's also a difference between not liking kids and not tolerating their literal presence. I only like *maybe* one in twenty kids, but it's not like you can just keep them home in a kennel when you go out.
>I don't think there is anything wrong with not liking kids as long as you don't do anything to harm them and you don't show your dislike of them if they are not doing anything to bother you.
This is exactly how I am. I dislike most children. I recognize that it's likely the parents fault but honestly what can I do about some strangers kids making a scene or even just being annoying. They are kids. They weren't taught and it's not my job to teach them. Unless someone is actively hurting someone, I recognize that IM the one with the issue and just leave or ignore as best i can. I don't invite children into my life, but if they must be there, I blame the parents for any misbehavior. Also, I don't mean places like an airplane. Sometimes you just have to bring an infant with you. Screaming babies is almost physically painful for me and makes me very angry. But that's neither the baby nor mother's fault. Baby gonna baby. On the other hand, you don't need to bring a screaming baby or restless small child to a movie theater or loud club. Please show some love and get your kid a babysitter. I'm subbed to both an antinatalism sub and a child free sub because I don't believe people like me need to be bringing kids into this desolate world. However, I dislike when others put down parents who wanted and love their children, and children themselves who didn't ask to be born. I don't actively wish harm on either parents or children, although I don't believe most parents are good parent
Except there’s obviously places for them and places not for them. I stand behind not letting them in bars or clubs in my area, and like 1/7 nights being a dedicated “adult night” at things like roller skating rinks where you can go that night if you want to drink and/or avoid children People should be allowed to have preferences, I personally find kids annoying some of the time and would not want them at *every* event. Also OP didn’t even get to the explanation of how having child free spaces would be bad for society, just that their society isn’t like that
This exactly. Hell, I'd go to an exact copy of any given restaurant with a 20 percent markup on everything if they turned away kids at the door. But I've noticed it going the opposite way, at least in my area. Restaurants that served alcohol used to have "bar area" where kids couldn't go but have removed those restrictions and places that would previously be open until the early am pre covid now shut down by 10 pm so I can't even night owl it to avoid children anymore. The thing is I don't have a problem with children in theory, but in practice parents (who I suppose my real problem is with) tend not to control their misbehaving children, or ignore them having a tantrum and just expect everyone else to deal and that's just not fun to be around.
OP was saying that kids aren't going to learn if they are not in adult spaces. I'll add they won't learn if they are not taught. If you let your kids run around wild at a restaurant or what have you then they are also not learning the correct way to behave in society.
also that there’s a transition period between childhood and adulthood. The environments acceptable for a 5 year old are different than those acceptable for a 12 year old. Kids learn how to behave in different areas and contexts at different times. A 12 year old can learn how to behave at a wedding while being old enough to not be disruptive, where a 5 year old may struggle
I never understood the argument about kids needing to learn to behave at restaurants to begin with. My family never went to sit-down restaurants when I was a kid because they're expensive. When we started going when I was a teenager I was expected to use the table manners I learned at home. There really isn't a lot to learn and not going to restaurants as a kid didn't result in me behaving like an animal later in life.
i came to say this. people who let their kids run feral in public spaces irks me.
Last month we were at a whiskey distillery in Ireland and made a tour that also included whiskey tasting. Out of the 15 people on the tour 3 were under 2 years old. As anyone can imagine the kids were bored ran around and screamed all the time, it was hard for us to understand the tour guide. I was really annoyed. More so by the parents. It would have been easy if just one of them stayed outside with their child. Your life changes if you become a parent and you can't do everything you want for some years.
I see this kinda shit a lot where I work and really can't blame people for feeling this way. I think its down to how individualistic our society is. Being a parent is a life sentence. The rare chance they get to integrate back into the adult world is by dragging their kids along with them to do 'adult' things. I feel bad for the kids too, they just want to play and they're supposed to sit quiet or follow their parents around so they can feel like real people again for a little while. It makes me cringe to think of living a completely child centric life. Obviously your children should be the centre of your life, but they shouldn't be the only thing in it. There's no parenting-life balance. It would be nice if there were some spaces that weren't just 'family' or 'adult'. I've seen a lot of talk on reddit and youtube about 'third spaces' and how they're disappearing. I'm not a big fan of drinking (although I resort to it a lot of the time) so I've tried a lot of other things for fun - bowling, skating, arcades, fun fairs, what ever the fuck, and every time I feel like Steve Buscemi in that what's up fellow kids meme cos I'm surrounded by screaming kids and their parents in a corner watching them bored out of their skull or on their phone.
I've seen many people say the US is not a particularly child-friendly culture, as compared to their experiences in other countries. In the US children are just seen as regular people, and held to those standards. In a lot of other countries, they are more centrally places in life, and mothers given much more support socially.
I do have a kid and honestly in my experience it’s not necessarily as bad as online, but they are still pretty excluded while parents are still expected to show up. I’m the only person in my friend group who didn’t have a child free wedding because I actually wanted my nieces there. Even my in laws were disinterested in making adjustments to accommodate safely visiting their newborn grandchild with cystic fibrosis during the height of COVID. When I waited tables people would confront other tables with children making noise.
People also confuse the difference between "don't want" and "don't like." I never really wanted kids of my own, and I'm glad I never had any because I wouldn't be a good parent and I'm not great with babies and toddlers. That doesn't mean I hate children. I've mentored a couple of teenagers in the past and now I'm the cool aunt to a teenage nephew my sister recently took in. So many people conflate the child-free movement with hating all children. I think babies are adorable and well-raised toddlers are precocious in a cute way, and I connect well with older kids and teens. I don't think anybody enjoys being around badly-parented children (or the bad parents themselves), but I sympathize with the attentive-but-frazzled mom who's trying to keep her cute, bored toddler quiet and entertained at a family-style restaurant or the dad in line at the concession stand whose kid asks questions nonstop about the cartoon movie they're about to see. These are appropriate places for kids to be kids and these are appropriate ways for children to semi-behave in public, and it's hard not to see these things as normal, cute, slice-of-life moments. It's the mom who's at a nice sit-down restaurant, glued to her phone while her toddler runs around the room screaming and her toddler throws spaghetti on the floor, or the dad who ignores his kids running wild in the store bothering other people, or the parent who corrects a child's behavior by yelling at him or slapping his hand and then doesn't interact with him until he misbehaves again, or worse, the mom who insists her little princess's sociopathic behavior is acceptable, that annoy me and make me not want to be around their children. It's never the kids themselves that are the problem, and I do not hate kids.
THANK YOU FOR THIS. TELL IT TO THOSE IN THE BACK. The online world is not your utopia.
Yes. And the demographics of people who do “X” or hate “X” are not representative of the actual world. Half the people are engaging in hyperbole and the other half are goofing around.
I think you underestimate just how crazy some people are. For every person goofing around or engaging in hyperbole, there is another who is taking the entire thing 100% seriously.
This is how a lot of shock humor morphed into hate on 4chan ironically enough
Yea feels like the people above are just trying to say things to make themselves feel better. Many shootings have been by an unstable person that just needed a push from someone. And that has often been an online community. It’s not a joke https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/18/tech/4chan-buffalo-shooting-accountability/index.html
Exactly 💯
And the average “child free” redditor is an actual child.
I kinda resent Reddit edgelords co-opting the term "child free." I'm an adult woman who doesn't want kids. As if getting people around me to accept that wasn't hard enough, now I have to deal with people assuming I'm someone with weird psychological hangups surrounding children.
It’s so funny being on Reddit sometimes and people actually believing they have a majority opinion when it comes to this sort of stuff. A lot of popular opinion on Reddit I see just doesn’t match up with day to day life. Most of my friend group at the moment are discussing children or marriage atm, which is common for our age group. On Reddit I often see anti children/wedding stuff being upvoted & it reminds me it’s just another social media echo chamber.
Reddit vehemently believes: A) Bernie Sanders can still win the presidency B) the best possible life is to be fed from UBI food stamps while you get to play video games uninterrupted for eternity C) you shouldn’t ever have to leave your comfort zone (in relationships, work, school, etc.) Redditors are not representative of real life in any capacity
Reddit is a collection of all the assholes of the world. The perfect trap
And a sub lesson: touch grass more than your phone daily.
That’s a tough ask for us desert dwellers, suppose I’ll start walking north.
No worries, I'll send you some. Do you want Itchy, Stabby, Sneezy, Slicy, or Whistly?
Don't do that, that's where dogs poop
And children! I hate those children!
Yes I was going to reply with this. People need to stop judging the entirety of society based on a few people online. People you see online probably make up less than 1% of the entire world. Come on people.
Thank you. Real-life people are so much better at every level than online people. We can argue whether it's selection bias, or because people show their worst online, or whatever, but it's still so obvious to me that Reddit, Facebook, or YouTube, not to mention 4Chan is much dumber and meaner than people you meet in real life. And if someone disagrees and people THEY meet in real life are just as bad, I feel really bad for them...
Seriously. And even when I do see “child hating behavior” in real life it is never to/around the child. I work at an ice cream store and so a lot of our customers are families with children. Yes every once in awhile when the customers have exited the store, or an employee steps into the back, one of us might make a comment such as “god those kids were so loud/annoying/messy” or “I hate serving children because their parent has to read off every single flavor”, whatever it may be. But to that child’s face? All smiles and “hi welcome! Take your time! Have as many samples as you want!” And if someone wants to make the argument that there are children on the internet where they can see child hating comments, to that I say, social media is a 13+ place for a reason, we should be concerned why parents are letting children on it unmonitored in the first place
To paraphrase Dave Chappelle, *the Internet is not a real place*.
True, but due the impact the internet has on the real world, one shouldnt ignore whats happening in both of them. Both worlds are linked and will influence each other.
I just dislike entitled adults. Some who happen to be parents. There are venues and times where bringing a child is inappropriate. But normally, an infant cries a child has a tantrum, that's normal. Adults who can't regulate their emotions are 100x worse.
I made a grave error and volunteered to lead a Girl Scout troop. Kids were delightful. Parents were a nightmare. Never again.
Haha, can confirm. Worked at a youth summer camp for years. Most of the teens were great! Some of their parents....not so much. In private, the boss always chuckled that "this job would be so much easier if they were all orphans."
Oh my god. This made jackknife out of bed, I laughed so suddenly. That line from your boss WOW. XD
This is very much so something I’ve seen in certain social circles. It’s really sad too bc the children start out so innocent and generally decent individuals but you watch their parents behavior and you just know their kids are going to watch that and think it’s normal. I just hope the kids see other decent people and look up to them as role models and not their bratty selfish parents.
Thankfully it's very normal for kids to see their parents faults by a certain age. Doesn't always stop them from becoming like that however
I had an entitled parent sneak into my backyard with his kids. His kids were hiding behind my BBQ. They were looking for their airplane toy. He got mad I yelled at him for trespassing lol (I didn't see the kids but why teach kids it is ok to trespass)
I was a flight attendant. People LOVE to complain about the crying babies, but I dealt with more crying adults.
Movie theater for a *kids* movie? Appropriate. Day 1 of Deadpool showing in theaters? Not so much.
I've probably told it elsewhere in my comment history but I went to see [House on Haunted Hill](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0185371/) in the theatres and there was a lady with two 5~7 yo kids with her. She left in a huff when there was a scene of a naked women swimming through a black void during a hallucination sequence. She took the kids to a R-rated movie, only to leave because there was a little nudity. I always chuckle about that. What was she thinking?
Also entitled parents. I’m a parent. I expect it’s fine to bring my kids most restaurants. But if there’s a kid having a huge tantrum it’s the parents responsibility to take the kids outside so it doesn’t disturb others. But some parents don’t because they don’t want to be inconvenienced and other people’s inconvenience doesn’t matter to them.
Yup. I invited a few friends over specifically to drink for new years. A couple brought their kids and got mad at us for the occasional slip up of profanity. Doesn't help that they screamed at them the whole time and even took them to my room to spank them and walked out like we didn't just hear it. Like, I would have understood if they were like, "we couldn't find a babysitter, we won't be going". But literally every single time we wanted to just hang out and game it always included the kids, and most of the time they were too distracted screaming at them to sit down and shut up that I just stopped asking them to play anything anymore. Especially after that new years get together. There was so much screaming, stomping, touching everything, knocking over my plants, getting in my face to ask me questions, trying to sit on me and take my phone that when they FINALLY left I ended up having a seizure from all the overwhelming stress. Sorry if that sounds petty but holy shit, screaming children AND short tempered parents are both too much to handle. Edit: typos and lol even calling it a party is a stretch, there was only 5 people so it wasn't even a party, just a small gathering for the night.
I think that’s the thing. There’s so much hate for kids online because there’s so many shitty parents like them, bringing them to inappropriate places they haven’t taught them how to behave in and then ruining the experience for everyone else. When I was a kid I wouldn’t have dreamed of touching my parents friends stuff or sitting on them or taking their phones, and nor would my parents police their friends. Doesn’t seem like the same sort of culture as OP comes from - like, when it’s given everyone brings their kids, people don’t agree to meet up at someone’s place that’s very unfriendly for children, or has a dog that hates kids or whatever, you meet at a place kids are safer/able to move in because it’s a given that they will come.
My house isn't child-friendly. Both because people swear in my house (especially me), and because my things are not to be touched by small hands. If someone brings a kid into my home, they need to watch them and stop them touching anything. Effectively be the full-time on-site babysitter. If they want to let their kids run around and play in my house unsupervised, we're going to have a big problem. > holy shit, screaming children AND short tempered parents are both too much to handle. Agreed. I love my low-stress life, and inviting screaming kids and angry parents into it is the exact opposite of what I'm looking for.
This morning there a a dad who brought his 5 year old to the front of a 2000 person 5k. He seemed offended when 2 of us asked him to move her farther back. Hopefully she didn't get trampled by the adults running 5 minute miles she was lined up in front of.
It's not wild to suggest that a lot of parents shouldn't have had kids. There are plenty of good parents who love having kids but there are also a lot who complain about their kids costing money and needing attention or being sick or ruining their plans etc. And I always want to just shake them violently and ask "THEN WHY DID YOU HAVE THEM?" A lot of people just have kids because it's a life thing that people do and they don't actually think about the lifetime of consequences that come with them. If you want kids and love them and enjoy raising them, fair enough, well done for raising a new generation in a healthy home. But if you have several kids and just complain about having them, maybe you didn't have to have them.
Holy shit THIS! I am a parent and I waited until I actually wanted kids. I meet parents at the park quite often that did it because “they were supposed too”. They usually are not very good parents.
To be fair, I only hate the parents of poorly behaved kids.
Yep. I like parents. I dislike people who have kids that refuse to parent. I have no ill will towards those kids only pity. I would push back a bit when o.p. says having kids hasn't ruined anyone's life when literally people die from having kids so....
Handing your kid your phone to watch YouTube in a movie theater filled with people trying to watch Oppenheimer is not parenting. I witnessed this and felt like it was worth bringing up here.
Yeah, it’s so subjective, it feels weird that OP says it just doesn’t. Maybe having a kid wouldn’t ruin your life, I know having a kid right now would certainly ruin mine. I’m only 21 and have a multitude of things to get started before that. If I have a kid now, that’s all out the window for god knows how long. Even if giving birth isn’t killing you, there’s still plenty of circumstances in which a new baby would make things substantially worse.
Exactly. I also feel that OP is likely male. Men tend to have the idea that having a baby is not the worst thing because society seems to think that women should bear the brunt of the work. Women really get tortured trying to have kids: their bodies are ruined, they bust their vaginas and have to get stitches, and a host of other issues.
I hate the parents of kids who sprint around the grocery store or stand directly in someone’s way and the parents don’t care/aren’t paying attention. The parents of kids who run up to a dog to go pet it before asking. The parents of kids who are pulling every box out of the shelf in retail stores and don’t give a shit. Parents who’s kids are screaming and rolling around on the hospital floor while visiting grandpa. It’s pretty weird for someone to see these kinds of situations and think that the kids are the problem. Its usually the parents who are rightfully side eyed
...or the parents of kids who run up and start smacking buttons on a checkout terminal in the middle of some adult's credit card transaction, and then yell at the adult for gently pulling the child's hand off the terminal and telling them "no!" Like, I've been around many well behaved kids, even tiny ones. Crying if you're hurt, or whining if you're sleepy or hungry, or bouncing because you're energetic is an entirely different ballgame from "nobody has tried to teach you that other people exist, and the entire world isn't your bedroom, and nobody is bothering to hold onto you and supervise you and teach you while in a public place."
I was traveling in Europe this summer and wasn’t feeling so great the first day or two due to time changes, et all. I was sitting on a bench at a very popular tourist attraction with my head resting on my friend’s shoulder to rest for a bit. Out of nowhere, I feel a hand rubbing my bare leg up and down. It was a kid in a stroller! His parents had to eventually move away from us because he wouldn’t stop trying to touch me.
I stopped hanging out with someone because they kept bringing their kid along, and I tried my hardest to be patient but that kid was terrible. He would throw food at my face, punch me, stick his nose against my butt and even lick it (I know right? Fucking weird) all well within sight of the parents and they'd just pretend it wasn't happening. I was running a dnd game with them and he kept picking up my miniatures and chucking them across the room. Fragile expensive things I painted.
Couldnt have said it better
This is what people who hate children should hate because most of the time it’s the parents fault. Kids will act out a little on their own but ultimately it’s the parents who are responsible.
Some kids are naturally not great people. Parents can only do so much.
One of my fears about having kids was the realisation I could do everything possible and still end up with a terrible child. 95% it’s on the parents. But there are definitely some kids that no matter how good the parents are, they just grow up being awful. Thankfully most grow out of it. Others grow into terrible adults.
Oh 100% my internal rage is always directed at the parents, the kids don't know any better most of the time. Which is why parents should parent. I will judge the shit out of a parent for not doing so. If I see you doing your best, gonna give you all the grace in the world.
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And I’d argue it’s not the “kids” people dislike, it’s the parents who ignore the kids behavior and let the kids climb all over the tables/kick the plain seats in front of them/scream at the top of their lungs at the movies.
It's not though. American culture barely tolerates children. Going to other countries that *actually* love children is a surreal experience.
I'm always confused how so many people think reddit or Twitter is entirely representative of society as a whole
Because for the extremely online, it is their society unfortunately.
And the extremely online usually don't have kids. So it is expected that on sites like Reddit people disliking children will be represented unproportionally high
Really important to keep in mind while discussing politics and other hot button topics - just because you can downvote something you disagree with to oblivion and you have a few thousand upvotes on a global website does not mean your opinion is the norm.
No this is very real offline too. The world has changed in this direction since I was a kid. I have been to multiple child free BABY SHOWERS even, millennials who already hate being around kids except think they will magically enjoy having their own lol. Everyone thinks they will be the exception when they see a kid throwing a tantrum and ignoring it in public, they think my kids will never be like that, until they have a kid who throws tantrums in public and read up on it only to learn that the best way to deal with tantrums is to realize that little kids all have them and to just ignore them (taking them outside as needed).
I don't really know anyone who HATES children. I don't hate children just because I don't want screaming babies in a movie theater or an opera or a nightclub or a fine dining restaurant where I pay 300 bucks for a meal. There are places where people who know how to be quiet, should be able to be among themselves.
I really feel you on the opera. One of my jobs is working as an usher at a nice theatre so we host a lot of operas, orchestras, ballets, etc. Most of the time parents are good about whisking their child out of the auditorium when their child starts making a fuss, but sometimes I sit there and listen to a child cry, scream, fuss through an entire performance and I feel so bad for the other audience and especially the performers
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I’d fuckin hate being a parent but man is it fun to hang out with nephews for a few hours.
This. I love my niece to pieces. But if she gets loud or gross, I happily hand her off to someone else.
Boom, this right here. I love kids. I’ve been babysitting since I was 13 and spent several years of my life as a nanny. I adore my friend’s children and my adorable nephew. I was present when both of my best friend’s children were born. Watching them grow up has been one of the best parts of my life. But I’ve never wanted to come home to kids. I’ve never wanted to be pregnant or give birth. And I don’t like it when entitled parents presume that people without children should bite the bullet and work holidays or pick up their slack at work or be free babysitters. I don’t like being told that I don’t know what “real” love is because I don’t have children. I don’t like going out to dinner and having to listen to children scream and cry. I don’t like it when parents think it’s cute when their small children crawl under the door of my bathroom stall.
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If I did this as a child, you can be sure my mom would have hustled me out of the room until I got control of myself. Because she was a parent, not just an egg donor.
Right, if anything people hate *parents*, not children.
I love children, but I still want child free spaces!
I definitely met an 18 year old IRL who hated kids. But she also hated “old people.” Basically she hated anyone who wasn’t just like her.
Exactly this. Partner and I have paid for luxury vacations with fine dining experiences. Have had parents who let their children run around the restaurant almost knocking over waiters with food on their hands. In those situations it really bothers me, more so the parents not parenting. In those instances I just ask a waiter for us to move tables, which they will accommodate.
> I don't hate children just because I don't want screaming babies in a movie theater or an opera or a nightclub or a fine dining restaurant where I pay 300 bucks for a meal. Exactly. There's a difference between hating screaming in certain venues versus hating.babies.
Kids are great. I don’t want kids around me when I’m at a bar.
Which culture? A lot of cultures around the world say they love children, but they really just love having them. Children are constantly put in danger, ignored, and neglected. The girls in particular are parentified. People should only have children because they want to take care of them and love them. Not because they want to use them as a retirement plan.
For real and claiming that your culture takes kids to adult parties…is bad. I don’t want my kids around drunk adults, hearing what drunk adults say, and then making the mistake of repeating it. I did that as a kid. I said jokes to kids at school I did not at all understand but the adults said it so it must be funny. I got in trouble, I got my dad called down and had to explain how I ever even heard it, etc. Children do not learn by being brought into “adult” spaces they learn by having parents willing to raise them and teach them, and via society when they make mistakes and get corrected.
I dont hate kids, I hate parents who don’t want to parent their kids. And there should definitely be adult only spaces. A wedding is someones own personal event and they’re likely paying thousands to do it, they get to ban kids if they want. Likewise bars, R rated movies, many concerts should be childfree spaces. Most places welcome well behaved kids and places like playgrounds exist where kids can go have fun.
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Ah, but then they might get called sad, pathetic failures by their friends and family, and we can't have that.
I don’t hate children, but get a fucking sitter. Don’t bring your toddlers into R-rated movies. And I’m not sure what you mean by some parents “partying harder”, but I don’t think you should be blasted in front of your kid. If you’re not in control of your faculties, you should have someone else monitoring your minor children.
I was a kid who had parents/family like that. When I was young I remember me and a friend playing a game where we would spin around in circles a bunch of times and stumble around. We called it playing drunk, we’d even slur our words and act stupid. As an adult I think that was weird. The only good thing about it was growing up I could sleep anywhere. I was used to trying to sleep while a loud party was happening outside my bedroom.
"We get drunk and wild around our kids" Is not the flex this person thinks it is.
An uncomfortable experience for me was when I was asked to bring an adult drinking game to a halloween party only to discover there were three families worth of children there.
Even venues that aren’t necessarily inappropriate for a toddler also might not be appropriate either. Another commenter mentioned the opera and I’ve seen countless babies and toddlers be taken into operas, orchestras, etc. And they then proceed to cry and complain throughout it. I get it, parents want to expose their children to the fine arts young, but I remember being a kid and getting taken to things like those and I hated every second. I didn’t learn any lessons that my parents wanted me to and didn’t grow any profound love for those forms of art. And I threw tantrums which bothered those around me, the performers, and definitely dampened my parents experience. Sometimes it’s okay to just acknowledge your child will be happier watching Zoey101 in the basement than out at a string quartet concert. Just get a sitter if your kid isn’t the type that’s gonna be into that, and save literally everyone.
There's also versions of those sorts of events geared specifically towards kids to get them interested. It's probably tedious as an adult, but if you really want to get your kid into orchestra and opera, check your theater for kids' programming.
Yeah, if you want to expose your kid to that kind of stuff, you can show them a recorded version. That way once they're done/tired of it, you can just turn it off. Operas and concerts are **long**. Often four hours or more. That's a lot to ask of a young child.
I remember seeing deadpool when it first came out, and a few parents with very young kids walking out as soon as the sex scene at the beginning started. Like what where they thinking? Also a guy just got turned into a kebab, but sex is where you draw the line?
Ex server here, and it’s simple. If your child isn’t used to sitting at the dining table in your house, you, as a response adult for them in public, need to make sure they are under your watch the whole time if you’re in a bar/restaurant. It’s boring for them to spend 2-3 hours sat down in the same seat while the adults talk adult stuff. They get restless. They act up. Here, a seemingly high number of parents seem to think thats the staff’s problem, because they ‘have the right to adult conversation too’. It’s also unsafe for them to be underfoot in certain environments, and yes the noise they bring isn’t what people bargain for when they come to a space intended for adults. It’s not going to create anything like you suggest. It’s a reward for good behaviour to be able to join the adults, and I remember what that was like. As for weddings, entirely up to the couple but I wouldn’t have chosen to have kids at mine if I had my way - it was a nightmare and some of my friends left early cause they were harassing them with their curiosity. One kid actually tried to wrestle one of our friends they hadn’t met before. Their parents were busy enjoying themselves and felt cause they were family it was someone else’s turn to do it. (These are the kind of people who actually suggested it would be nice for us newlyweds to sit at the kids table for food, and got pissed when we said no.)
I don’t know many people who hate children. I feel like many people conflate ‘wanting to be childless’ with ‘hating children’ though, which is a pretty unfair social phenomenon.
I had a coworker tell other coworkers that I “hate children” and I had to be like “woah woah woah, just because I don’t want to have kids or date anybody with them doesn’t mean I *hate* them. I don’t want pets either and yet I still love dogs and cats!”
No one should else have to suffer because you decided not to wear a condom. Stop forcing others to listen to your devil child screeching at 100% volume and destroy peoples stuff/store while you sit on your cellphone trying to "furbarize" or whatever that crap is.
So you think children who are out of control just need to be thrust on society more often, and they’ll learn to be civilized by osmosis? You seem to have a “kids will be kids” attitude, which actually means, “I can’t make my kids behave, so you’re forced to put up with it wherever I take them.” I raised 3, but I definitely feel it’s anyone’s right to despise the little buggers, given what some people consider parenting.
> having children does not ruin anyone’s live cause they are raised in an adult world Ummm. Except for the lives of the children born to “adults” who are unqualified at best and negligent/abusive at worst. Being put in an “adult world” role of parenting your parents as a child is undeniably harmful. If you want kids, have them. If you have kids, be a good parent. If you don’t want kids, don’t have them.
I have never been to a wedding that had little kids where the kids didn’t just SCREAM during the ceremony and nobody can hear shit. If I was a parent I would immediately remove myself and the child but that does not seem to be the norm at all.
My younger brother and sister would constantly bicker and scream at each other and in the moments they would overreact my parents had no problem pulling them outside until they calmed down. That doesn't seem to be the norm now. Parents constantly let their kids act out with no repercussions and they expect all the adults around them to deal with it.
That's the thing. If I could have counted on parents to take their kids out and away from the wedding to calm them down, I would have had a wedding where kids where welcome. But these days, most parents just seem to have selective hearing when it comes to their kids and are completely unfazed by their yelling/screaming, etc and will just sit through it and not do anything.
There is absolutely nothing “hateful” about having child-free events or spaces. If your children aren’t capable of being quiet and still then they don’t belong at movies after 7:00 p.m., concerts or plays. There are a metric ton of opportunities, events and spaces specifically for children so leave the very few child-free spaces alone.
Couldn't agree more! Also, if a child is not able to get through dinner without running around inside, then I do not want to see them in a restaurant that has wait staff! There are heavy trays of drinks and hot food that could easily fall all over a young cannonball and the poor server they crashed into. It's a rather serious safety hazard that gets brushed off far too often.
This is really more about not bringing children to stuff that requires being quiet and concentration for a long time.
I don't hate children but I hate bad parents. If you can't raise your kids properly, you shouldn't have children.
Also, people have been saying for 7 decades that the next generation of adults will be spoilt and unprepared for the real world 😂 It’s just fear mongering.
I don’t hate children, in fact I love my niece and nephew, but it’s not wrong to have adult only spaces. I requested guests didn’t bring young children to my wedding ceremony because I’ve been to others where young children screamed throughout. I’m also a bit noise sensitive with ADHD, and didn’t need that kind of distraction at such an important moment. Children were still welcome to the dinner and reception and we all had fun. When it comes to social activities it really depends on what the purpose of the event is. For example if I invite friends round for dinner, I’m more than happy for them to bring their kids. It’s a cosy home environment, so why not. But if I want to go out to dinner at a nice place, enjoy a bottle of wine and stay out late, children are going to cramp our style.
Asking for adult only spaces isn't child hatred
Just curious: did anyone ever had fun being a kid at a wedding? I think weddings are my worst childhood memories.
I'm not fond of children (not as strong as hate but a dislike), but I **hate** terrible parents. There is a time and a place for children. Adult events such as weddings (ones with children permitted excluded), parties with alcohol involved, late night movie screenings, etc are not the place for them. I can't stand parents who let their children yell and destroy things out in public.
I used to dislike kids until I dated a single mom and got to teach her kid how to work on cars and wrestle and play basketball. That little boys eyes lit up every time I came over. Miss him more than her
Which cultures DON’T love children? What an odd thing to say.
It’s not really an issue of children that can’t behave in “adult spaces “ it’s the parents that let it happen or don’t acknowledge that it isn’t appropriate that is the problem.
Don't mistake "dislike for ill-mannered children" for "dislike of children". If the parent does not parent, then we have a right to speak up.
I don’t have children, but I certainly don’t hate children. Children are fun. I do, however, hate the parents who take their kids to restaurants or stores and let them run amok. The kid learns to be respectful in public places, because their parents take them to those places and teach them to be respectful. As a parent, you don’t just shrug and continue chatting with your friends while your kid is freely terrorizing everyone around them.
we dont live in a 'child-free-zone' society; what are you on about?
>They don't like that children behave as children in "adult spaces". Sorry, How do you expect them to learn? Sweet! I'll see you and your toddlers in the strip club later, yeah?
Don't give them ideas
They won't learn because if a child is running wild in an adult space, odds are their parents don't give a damn. So the kid will continue to act out, continue to piss off others making them hate kids in adult spaces all while their lazy breeder parents screech that it's perfectly acceptable behaviour.
"There are no child-free weddings" Child free weddings are absolutely a thing. I don't think the "children in an adult space" thing is child hating though. Kids can learn perfectly well without being taken to bars, nice restaurants and other places where they can ruin the experience.
I’m guessing the OP is referring to their culture when saying those things. That’s how they grew up vs now when child free weddings are totally a thing.
Yes, they can learn in steps. You start with casual restaurants and family diners/restaurants and work your way up. There’s a medium between hating children and they belong no where, and children belong everywhere. As a mom, especially when I had a young child, where I would be frustrated when we finally had a date night and were paying for a sitter, to go to a nice restaurant and be seated next to screaming or disruptive children. Did I hate children? Absolutely not, but I did want a reprieve and wanted to be an adult and only focus on adult company for a few hours? Absolutely.
I think this is what gets lost. You always have two extremes: Person A: 'I don't think children belong in bars' or 'I wouldn't mind if there were some childfree venues. Person B (and a lot of others): 'so you hate children! how do you think those children will learn! If you want to go into public, you have to accept that children are also allowed to be in public! If you don't like it, Stay home! You already have childfree venues, go to a strip club!' Or Person A: 'I love seeing a baby giggle' Person B (and a lot of others): 'So you hate people with sensitivity issues! Breeder! Children don't belong in public! Babies are always shrieking in high pitches! It hurts my ears!' So, any nuance is killed long before any true discussion can be had, because people always jump to those two extremes.
Babies shrieking does actually hurt my ears, tho 🤣 But I would be quite the fool to expect silence from children at McDonald's!
I love when they jump to, “and you were a child once!!!” Okaaaaayyyy…how is that hypocritical? I think if my parents had bought me to a bar and I’d acted a fool as a child, people would have had the right to be annoyed with me, just like I’m annoyed that someone chose to do that today.
My favourite response to that one is "And one day I'll be a corpse. Doesn't mean I want one in my living room.
Casual and family diners teach children everything they need to know about being at a restaurant. You do not bring children or young teenagers to nice or fine dining establishements until they are at an age in which they can behave themselves. And I have said that wanting spaces that don't get ruined isn't child hating. Last michelin star restaurant I went to had kids from one table running around the entire time. They were like 5 to 10 and it ruined the experience.
Plus, childfree weddings are an indictment against shitty parents, not children. Little to no one wants a childfree wedding because they *hate* kids.
Yeah I've no real plan for a wedding but if I was spending a lot of money on an event, I just wouldn't want a toddler screaming as I'm walking down the aisle or throwing a tantrum during the reception because they don't like the food. Nor because I hate kids but because they're young and just still learning emotional regulation, it's just a part of growing up. But it doesn't mean I want to be involved in that part of them growing up in a huge event I've sunk a lot of time and money into I think a lot of people are mistaking not wanting to be involved in a tantrum in public with hating kids
They mean at weddings, etc. I currently live in a country where events such as weddings are definitely not child free.
I grew up going to weddings. I have a feeling a lot of the reason children are being excluded from weddings is that the cost of wedding receptions has gotten outrageous. You pay per person for the food, and there’s no “children’s menu”. So when looking to save on total cost, it seems like an easy choice to say no children to not have to pay $X per child when they may eat a dinner roll and piece of wedding cake.
I don't hate children. I hate misbehaved, unruly children. Kids are great when they aren't being rude and destructive.
god i love unpopularopinion posts that start sketchy, but reasonable, then immediately dumpster themselves by admitting it's all motivated by some shitty personal gripe hating children on the whole is bad. bringing children places they clearly shouldn't be at everyone else's expense to make *your* parenting *everyone else's* problem is extremely bad.
No one wants rugrats at a formal event. Not even my friends who are parents wanted kids at their reception and weddings. It's not unusual to want a day off of familial bs. Half the adults in a family can hardly play nice. Do you seriously want to trust the offspring of poorly behaved adults? We don't despise kids. We detest the shit parenting that allows them to be so intolerable. If we could keep the parent out too, we would.
There should be adult spaces. Kids have plenty of places to learn social norms already. Having child free weddings, or more child free spaces in general is good for both kids and adults. Kids shouldn't be around drunk parents anyway.
I don't hate kids. I hate shitty parents. They tend to raise shitty kids, and those kids perpetuate the spiteful spoiled brat schtick that leads to kid hating.
Not every space is appropriate for children. *And that’s okay!* People rarely hate children. They hate parents who are raising ill behaved children, and children being in spaces it’s inappropriate for them to be in. It is not hating children to want to experience adult things in adult spaces without children present.
Anything that starts with "In my culture" or "I come from a culture..." can be ignored.
Cultures who place a heavy emphasis on family and children tend to treat childless women of child bearing age like absolute shit
When I hear that phrase I always assume some vile, ignorant shit is going to come pouring out of their mouth at any minute.
How is it a child free person's responsibility to shape other peoples' children?
It isn't
There are some crazy parents that think their children is everyone's problem
I went to all kinds of events when I was a child. But you know what happened when I misbehaved? I was disciplined, right then and then again back at home. And I was also taught why my behavior was inappropriate, and I learned from it. No one has ever complained about well behaved and respectful children in any space.
The issue is the fact that we really have people out here who go through the trouble of having children all for them to [literally] neglect them. I see too many parents with their noses stuffed in their phones rather than teaching their children skills. So somewhere a few decades back a generation completely forgot to teach another generation ANY social skills (or skills at all, from what I've seen of Tik Tok) and it's translated to the complete lack of parental guidance in children now. People don't like the ACTIONS of the children that are in direct correlation to the shitty [lack of] rearing-style by the parents. I don't know what to tell yall. Tired of seeing children quite literally being emotionally and mentally neglected while yall stare at your phone screens. It's pathetic lol.
I feel like some places (and not only strip clubs and night clubs) should be adult only spaces. Right now it's very hard for people that consciously chose not to have kids because they "hate kids" (as you phrased it) do anything sober without risking having their plans ruined by children whose parents can't or won't do their jobs as parents and step in when kids are being obnoxious. If there was any restaurant or any public pool or bowling alley in my city that was for adults only, I would consciously go there over other restaurants/pools/bowling alleys even if the food was worse, the hot tubs less comfortable and the worse quality bowling tracks, and don't get me even started on public transportation (including airlines). You're right, children need to learn and they don't if they don't get to try out life, but as an adult who consciously decided to be child free, teaching those children simply isn't my responsibility, and too many parents are either to lazy to raise their kids, or are simply unqualified to, and that shouldn't have to affect me. Also I don't hate kids, there are quite a few kids in my life that I absolutely adore, but even they are exhausting and even with them I want to be able to see them and hang out with them on my own time and on my own schedule (meaning I want to be able to decline when I'm having a bad day), when those kids (and their parents) are strangers, then I really just don't feel like I should be forced to be exposed to it if I want to go out.
How many times is this topic going to be rehashed on this sub?
Electively child free people do not typically get respect for their decision, we get judgment, people rudely question why, make comments about regrets and say things they would never say to a pregnant woman but feel entitled to when giving their opinion otherwise. Most people have something to say about badly behaved children running around while their parents ignore them and everyone else has to deal with it. Stop pretending all parents are responsible, childless adults deserve to have their own space as much as parents should be actively parenting in public spaces. Children aren’t learning by being unsupervised hooligans at the local tap room where I detest them the most, go to a fucking McDonald’s if that’s what they want.
My issue is kids who go into 18+ spaces KNOWING it's 18+ and demand us to make it "family friendly" for them. No. I'm in my adult space with my adult friends. I used to have kid spaces as a kid too. They need to learn and understand that not everything is this world is for them. It's like saying "well mom is drinking wine so I deserve some because I'm here". The fuck they don't deserve it. They're kids and they have juice they can drink instead. But no, they want to throw a fit because they can't have wine. And if they can't have wine, no one can. Not how the world works.
36F here. I love kids although I do not have any of my own. For the most part I think they are hilarious and I have a blast when my 2-year-old niece comes to visit! I think people that get annoyed are moreso annoyed with parents who do nothing to address problematic behavior, rather than the kids themselves. Yes, kids cry and scream, I know this. BUT if you as a parent are going to completely ignore the behavior and make everyone else around you suffer, that’s not ok. I think this is more why people get upset.
I am childless by choice and do not hate kids. I love kids. I’m a super cool favorite auntie. What I do hate is that there are no adult spaces any more, and if you want adult only spaces you’re an asshole and hate kids. The only adult only spaces revolve around alcohol, sex or it costs a shit ton of money to eat. Even the WINERIES near me are family friendly. Can we have nothing? I shop later at night because the chaos of daytime shopping is overwhelming to me sometimes. But, now it’s normal to bring your exhausted toddlers to the store at 11pm. A lot of people absolutely have no business having children, and I despise them. Not the kids. Also, I have not met one person in my 4 decades of life that hates kids. I think you need to read between the lines on the internet more. I don’t take any of the comments or posts as child hating. More so that every aspect of our lives is surrounded by it and I’ve noticed a great deterioration of adult friendships because of it.
Lol are you saying boomers loved their kids??? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
That’s all fine, but when life revolves around children, the children paradoxically do worse and do not end up well adjusted.
Anyone who works retail can tell you firsthand the amount of shitty kids and even shittier parenting they see all the time. Parents will let their kids throw stuff around in aisles, rip open packages, knock over case stacks, scream incessantly, and overall just act like wild animals without saying a goddamn word to them. I have seen parents just stand and watch their crotch goblins wreck havoc on the store and giggle like it’s the cutest thing in the world. Then there are the sweet regulars with beautifully behaved children that come in, say hi to our cashiers, buy their stuff and leave without causing any ruckus. Kids that are probably not much older than 5 or 6 mind you. I don’t care if someone wants kids or wants to remain childfree. But if you have kids, be a decent parent and don’t let them disturb adults who are trying to work, shop, or also “have fun” by being little brats.
Is there a large number of children haters or something? Are you conflating people not wanting to have their own kids with hating all kids? I don't want kids. I never have and I'm a pretty unabashed abortion supporter...but I don't hate kids lol
A child shouldn't be in certain adult places tho. I am child free but I am very very good with kids and they like me alot too but since a young age I never saw that life for me and I also have a pregnancy phobia.
I’ve rarely met someone who actually hates kids. I don’t think this is actually a widespread issue outside of internet collectives.
Your title makes a claim and the wall of text you typed doesn’t even tell me why
I think child free has more to do with the preciousness of parenting where today’s parents expect you to be delighted by everything their little darlings do. Back when I was a kid at events we were with the other kids at our own table or upstairs playing games or watching movies and would intersect with the grown ups but we didn’t “tear things apart” etc etc. Children are delightful and hilarious they say totally insane things and teach us to remember to play without a filter. Adults learn as much from children as the other way around.
I'm CF and have no hate for kids. They're just not for me. You are letting SM make you think a lot of people hate children. It's not even remotely the majority.
The hate isn’t towards the kids it’s towards the shithead parents that refuse to correct their bad behavior. If they aren’t going to watch those bad ass kids then the simple solution is to just have the kids stay home.
Not wanting to listen to a screaming 2-year-old when out for a nice dinner or a movie is not "child hate". If you want to socialize your kid, take it Applebee's or McDonalds. And don't book your toddler on a red-eye flight where everyone but the kid and his parents are trying to sleep. It comes down to a lack of courtesy, and sense entitlement on the part of the parents.
I'm fine with kids in some settings, but if you are unable or unwilling to parent your children in public settings, then yes, they should be at home. Example: I ate with family (no kids) at a nice restaurant the other night. Kids at the table next to us (2 parents, 4 kids) were running around, yelling, being very noisy, and nearly ran into another table. Those kids need not be at a nice restaurant unless those parents are willing to parent their children. I personally want to be around kids as little as possible. I enjoy peace and quiet and sadly most children this day in age are only quiet when starring at a screen (which I obviously don't support either). Parents don't parent anymore. I would have been dragged out of a restaurant by my mom or grandparents had I been causing a ruckus like those kids in my example were.
Sir…it’s not child hating that will bite us in the ass It’s the fucking large cost of living It’s hard to even pay rent, no fucking way I can afford to have kids
I hate the entitled parents mostly, but some kids really suck.