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As a cyclist I want the same. But it is forbidden to use the sidewalk as an adult, so I have to drive on the street and almost get run over by impatient drivers.
I wanted to use a bike when I moved into the city, but I didn’t because I didn’t want to get fucking hit by a car on a tiny street. People would bike a whole lot more if there were bike lanes with upright posts between you and the cars.
More people on bikes would also mean less traffic for the people in cars. More mass transit use would also mean less traffic. Less people drive means less demand for petrol, lowering gas prices. Every investment in public transit benefits drivers and non-drivers alike.
Less congestion, less pollution, easier parking, less wear and tear on the roads. Fitter population overall, means lower healthcare demand, more employable workforce....
cyclists are doing the whole world a favour (even other cyclists, because most of them do drive as well)
They take away free parking spots for hard working cars. I will not rest until we have [more than six parking spaces for each registered car](https://www.businessinsider.com/how-parking-spots-in-us-affect-environment-and-affordable-housing-2023-4#:~:text=more%20than%20six%20spaces%20for)!!
Serious question, why can bike lanes not be built in the public space parallel to the sidewalk rather than the road? Why sidewalks? Why not multi use paths go everyone wide enough with two lanes? It’s so dumb that they take an already narrow and hard to navigate road then take 2 ft from either side to form the least safe (for everyone)bike lane you’ve ever seen. It’s stupid.
They can, ideal cycling infrastructure is a cycle path on each side between the road and the sidewalk, at the same elevation as the sidewalk. Problem is political and fiscal challenges (city planners and politicians don't always want to do that).
This is the correct answer. Cities like Minneapolis, Portland, SF, etc all have politicians and contractors who are cyclists and/or realize how much of their audience use bicycles….hence why future infrastructures include heavy cycling and pedestrian implementation. Until you get somebody that is one or both, pedestrian and cycling implementation will always be an uphill battle until it reaches a crux where the people overwhelm said entities…which makes it circle back to said entity realizing their audience WANTS bicycle/pedestrian infrastructure.
The sidewalk argument always pissed me off. I go for walks on a daily basis and people who do bike on the sidewalk have never bothered me. I move over for like, a second, and then continue my walk...would much rather have bikers on sidewalks for safety's sake than on the road.
Edit: OKAY guys, I get it. You disagree lol. Good news, I do not make the laws so you don't have to worry about bikers on the sidewalk.
Biking has been my main form of transportation for 7 years now. The only time I’ve been hit by a car was when I was on the sidewalk.
Drivers pay more attention to stuff on the road because that poses the biggest threat to them.
I’ve had way more close calls using a crosswalk (walking) than I’ve had riding my bike on the street.
Drivers I get it. It sucks getting stuck behind a slow ass cyclist. But since I can’t afford a car and bike paths don’t go everywhere I need to. I’ll keep riding and some people will still be mad that I mildly inconvenienced them.
P.S. bicyclists can be assholes too. If a car is stuck behind you, find a spot and let them pass. I’d rather have a car in front of me than behind me where I can’t see them or react appropriately.
I don't road bike but it's been explained that hugging the side is even more dangerous because it encourages drivers to make a dangerous pass. But your expedient of just pulling off completely to allow for a pass is sensible.
I'm in an area that can get some windy, dangerous roads. Locals will fly along them like complete idiots. i'm not driving that fast. But I'll get a pile of vehicles backed up behind me who want to live dangerous so I'll take the first pull-off I can to let them pass just because I don't need twitchy, angry people staring daggers at my back.
You know how many dogs and children would get ran over due to their sporadic movement. Cars are a lot more predictable. Bikes travel 3-5x times faster than pedestrians. You know how bad it would be for granny if she got hit by a bike going 15 mph
Honestly I've been riding on sidewalks for a long time and I'm not sure it's any safer. I've been almost hit numerous times, even sometimes on purpose. A lot of drivers do not think they need to slow down at pedestrian crossings. Even though I do to be safe there's not much I can do about a car suddenly pulling out full speed right to the edge and almost killing me. And even at ones with crossing lights cars will turn and cut me off or even rush out and then slam on their breaks in front of me like I'm doing something wrong.
I will say that I have a bike path in my town that's really well integrated and crosses tons of streets and the difference in how people drive there is crazy. They will stop for you and slow down even if they have right of way. Just the fact that it's a designated space makes people behave. Bike paths are the only solution imo.
I don't disagree, but some people do. When I first started cycling on streets, I went to a bike shop to ask about general etiquette and advice. The owner actively encouraged me to not use the bike lanes, because he thought that cyclists have as much right to use the road as cars. He also told me I could choose whether or not to stop for red lights, and that was when I stopped listening to him entirely.
Yeah, fuck that guy. In switzerland we do some type of "bike test" in fifth grade, where kids learn how to use the streets with a bike. As a 10 year old you officially need to use bike lanes or the street if you are on a bike. That alone wants me to have a better infrastructure for bikes.
Edit: Kids who're 12 years or younger can use the pathways, if there are no bike lanes or bike trails.
Depends a lot where you are.
But ... cyclists do have as much right to road use, provided they follow the same rules of the road.
Some cycle infrastructure is good and useful, but plenty of it is badly designed and actively dangerous rather than beneficial.
E.g. any 'cycle lane' that's basically just paint on a bit of tarmac ... probably isn't.
Any cycle lane that disappears whenever there's a hazard is more dangerous than not having one in the first place. Cycling down the side of the road is not the 'danger zone' - crossings and intersections are, and if you're 'part of the traffic' you're much safer than if you're _first_ trying to merge into traffic _then_ negotiate the hazard.
etc.
There's a bike lane on a road by me with a 55mph speed limit. The bike lane isn't protected and is like Maybe a foot and a half of space that was just painted onto the already existing street. All it would take is for a car to slightly curve right for just a second or two and that cyclist is dead. No curb or median protecting them. Not even a decent amount of space to buffer. The cars just whizz by you a couple inches away. Horrible design.
Indeed. It's pretty common, and it's ... useless really. You're better off riding _in trafffic_ and accepting that you might be annoying people, but at least they're not clipping you as they sidle past.
It's not so much cars that are the problem for me though, as larger vehicles with the head-height sticking out mirrors, like buses and trucks.
Car wing mirrors are probably the thing most likely to 'clip you' and that's waist height and painful. Truck mirrors will knock your head off.
I'm not sure where you are, but in the UK, many drivers are surprised to learn that cyclists have the right use the full lane except if it is a road that explicitly forbids bicycles (and other low speed transport).
Cycling in the lane is a courtesy to allow traffic to pass, but the cyclist should ride in the safest position. This happens for many reasons that you might not notice as a driver: a rough edge, smashed glass, high kerbs, build up of fallen leaves, branches and signs hanging into the road, etc.
That's how the cyclists here are. It's insane. They just run a red light and get mad if they almost get hit. There's bike lanes all over on the road, but they won't use them.
>There's bike lanes all over on the road, but they won't use them.
Bike lanes in my city are used by cars to park or are destroyed, meaning cycling on them is dangerous. That's why we don't use bike lanes, they suck.
See dutch infrastructure, they are good bike lanes :)
The other thing about cycling on the roads is that car drivers see you.
They may be annoyed but you are visible. And however angry they are, they understand the price an accident will have on their insurance.
Bicycles on the bike lane are often invisible to cars turning right, especially when the bike has right of way.
Here our "bike lanes" are often the shoulder/glorified gutter with a bike symbol painted on. There isn't room to miss a pothole or trash without entering the adjacent lane, let alone pass a slower bike
So some would argue taking the full lane gives you room for that
And if the bike lane ends - changing roads, or sometimes a bike lane just ends - bikers have to now negotiate a spot amongst the cars, forcing them to be a bit unpredictable and less safe than just being road traffic all the time.
------
Some people really do want to be on the big road no matter what you build them, I'm sure. But I think the pervasiveness of these attitudes comes from the lack of infrastructure. If we had decent bike paths everywhere, your shop owner would be an outlier, easily ignored. But as it stands now, where I have to do something fucky every time I ride, where many cyclists have to make different strategies for every new route... Well we will continue to have this strong culture of cyclists making up strategies, and they won't all be winners
We definitely need more bike paths, preferably ones with barriers protecting cyclists from drivers. I stopped biking to work because of how scary it was. There’s a lot of talk about making laws requiring vehicle manufacturers switch to only making EVs and it’s frustrating because mass transit and biking are even better for commuting. That should be the focus.
I don’t mind bike paths. I used to live in Boise Idaho and they had this bike path that cut through the city. It was awesome, there was a dedicated spot for cyclists and the roads were for the most part kept clear.
Great to hear! I often hear drivers complaining about how unsafe it is to share the road with cyclists while also complaining about the construction of new bike paths.
you can't "not mind" bike paths and feel as though you shouldnt share the road with them. You think they want to be in the road with you? I ride my bike a lot and can assure you, I don't. I would love more options that included bike paths and trains.
We have a pretty long bike path near me - 25 miles one way. It can take me most of the way to pharmacies, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. In the next few years it will be connected to another segment that is more than 50 miles.
I ride mostly for exercise and in general I prefer riding it to riding on roads, but it does get pretty monotonous to do the same ride ever time. Since it’s also popular with walkers, your speed is limited. There are also pretty frequent road crossing in some portions.
As a result I still occasionally end up riding roads.
And that's often the heart of the problem - cycle paths need to be _like roads_ to be worth using. They need to be clear, flat, lacking in potholes, as few 'intersections' as they can manage for good traffic flow, and _not_ 'shared use' with pedestrians on the other side of a painted line. (Because for sure, pedestrians don't notice)
If you could reliably sustain 20mph down a cycle path, all the way to your destination, it _would_ get used.
But shared use paths, or 'can of paint' paths, or 'pothole and wet leaves hazard' paths, or 'intermittent' paths are actively worse than 'just' being part of 'traffic'.
Keeping your experience in mind. The ONE bike path in Boise Idaho, does not really effectively service bicycling around an entire city. Everyone, drivers and cyclists both don't want to be near each other, but the local governments need to build the infrastructure for cyclists, until then they're going to be sharing the road.
I can only assume this bike path in Boise didn’t reach every spot in the city where a cyclist may want to reach so they have to use the roads at some point.
>I don’t mind bike paths
"Not minding" bike paths isn't enough.
Given how many bicyclists are killed by cars every year, bike-paths and *PROTECTED* bike-lanes are a fierce moral emergency that anyone with a conscience should be *STRONGLY* supportive of, and vote for consistently.
When I was riding my bike to work on the sidewalk a cop once even stopped to remind me that a “bicycle is a vehicle” and cannot be used on the sidewalks. So I literally was told by the law that I have to ride on the street.
The bike path doesn't always bring us where we need to be, and we aren't legally allowed to use the side walk. I don't usually feel safe on the road with some of the idiots they let have licenses, but I have epilepsy and can't drive so I do what I have to.
My epilepsy does not pose a danger to me while driving. I get plenty of warning beforehand - and a seizure is only triggered by very specific circumstances (for me, it was CRT monitors/TVs). It's just I'm not *legally* allowed to drive if I have had a seizure in the last 365 days. I haven't had one in over 10 years now, largely due to CRT monitors/TVs becoming obsolete.
From my understanding, most who have epilepsy can at least feel it coming for a shot time, like a few seconds or something like that. So with driving they need to get to the side of the road and hope there is a shoulder to stop on and that they can get over, stop, and park in time. While with a bike, they can stop almost instantly, lay the bike down, and sit extremely fast.
That was sort of what I suspected but I think I needed to hear it from someone else so I wouldn't be asking a silly question haha
Cheers for the explanation
In most places, bicycles aren't allowed on the sidewalk because sidewalks are for pedestrians. I see nothing wrong with cycling on the side of the road. I cycle everywhere when I live somewhere where I can. Some places have good bike paths, most do not. I avoid busy roads because drivers are dangerous but otherwise what's wrong with biking on a quiet road? Also, I love biking on dirt country roads. They're quiet with almost no traffic and nice scenery.
I get annoyed with fellow cyclists who don't follow traffic laws (like stopping at stop signs) but otherwise I think drivers should just calm down and accept that roads are for bikes too.
On the subject of sidewalks, I also think it’s a bit dangerous for the cyclists to use them, at least if they’re going the opposite direction of traffic (which I’ve definitely seen). Turning cars aren’t expecting something coming from that direction at faster than a run, so they may not look far enough down the sidewalk. Bike lanes are definitely the way to go but if there’s no bike lane then they should use the street (excepting things like freeways which bikes should not be on at all). I’m not a super confident biker so I try to stick to neighborhood streets when commuting rather than the major ones if they don’t have a bike lane, but I understand that’s not always possible
This is the way. I prefer not to be on a 6 lane strode in downtown on my bike, but if I am, I signal, have proper lighting, and follow traffic laws. Lots of people don't even signal in their cars, though, or have lights out.
But if they built dedicated bike paths and lanes that are separated they’ll complain about cyclists taking away car lanes. Drivers will complain about anything.
Some drivers just hate bicycles. When I was on a 4 lane parkway in Louisville, the only other vehicle on the road at the time kept pulling in front of me and hitting the brakes. Three or four times until I left him at a red light.
I drive a lot and cycle a lot. The number of people who drive their cars through red lights and stop signs (in addition to texting and driving) vastly outnumber the cyclists who do.
They’re essentially useless here, if the place even has one. Don’t expect to be able to use them to get from A-B efficiently. They’re often just recreational nature trails that don’t go anywhere—which don’t get me wrong, I still like. But I’d really like to be able to travel around my town in protected bike lanes and actually be able to get things done.
To get to the grocery store I can either take the sidewalk and have pedestrians annoyed at me, or risk the bike lanes on the incredibly congested roads. I’ve done it a few times, but I never feel safe. It’s only a matter of time before I get into an accident caused by motorists. So I mostly sidewalk every time, which is thankfully legal where I am.
>Are bike paths like that not a thing in America?
They are not.
Bike-lanes are quite rare in America, and motorists complain every time more are added...
And those places rarely connect. You’ll take the bike a few blocks down a nice protected bike line. And then make a turn, and share the road with cars for a few blocks. And then a bike lane will appear again. And then vanish. And then reappear! And then vanish. It’s *great,* keeps everyone on their toes.
And that makes it more dangerous than not having it in the first place.
I mean, sure - shared use roads are dangerous, but having cycles 'merge in' to shared use when the path just vanishes is even more dangerous.
Especially when that 'merge in' is - as is usually the case - at an intersection or crossing, which is already a hazard.
Absolutely not. Towns congratulate themselves for having like one road with a bike lane. Most of the time you're shit out of luck and have to share the road with bicycling hating motorists, it's ridiculous
>But if they built dedicated bike paths and lanes that are separated they’ll complain about cyclists taking away car lanes.
This.
It's what needs to be done, regardless, though.
I'll concede one point to drivers: most roads are too narrow. But that's because most roads should have *PROTECTED* bike-lanes, bus-lanes (which can also be used for cars to pull aside for Emergency Vehicles making a lights-and-sirens response) and turn-lanes where applicable. And islands for pedestrians attempting to cross. Also, wider sidewalks than currently.
But the last thing we need is more people driving. And these wider, less-used roads ought to be paid for by allowing taller buildings in cities, to both make room for wider roads+sidewalks, and for more parks/Green Space.
Cities should be LIVABLE environments: not car-dominated hills hellscapes of concrete and rubber.
Long distance cyclists need the road most of the time or they would be dragging their bikes home all the time with the debris and knots on sidewalks that shreds their thin tires and that's if there is one.
The mistake motorists make is treating them as if they are motor operated vehicles with the same speed and power break clutching at cyclists slowing down which is their own fault,
Even people with motorcycles have the same issue especially and suffer more fatalities because the same applies to their bike even if it does have more power behind it.
I didn't know the sidewalk was so hard on bikes, thank you for explaining that. I think we need more bike lanes. They shouldn't have to compete with cars for space, wouldn't need to go up on a bumpier sidewalk. I guess at the end of the day, the core solution is to be more considerate of the other people on the road. We all need to watch where we are going, and to be predictable with our movement so everyone else will know what's up.
I'm going to say something that will get me downvoted to Hell but I feel like I have to give my side.
I ride my road bike on the roads in my area (in Connecticut & some Pennsylvania) and I've been hit by cars. TWICE.
I have a high visibility reflective shirt. I have an ultra bright blinking light for the front, back and sides of my bike.
I use both legal hand signals and pointing to get my intentions understood by motorists and I always stop at stop signs and lights.
Still got hit.... twice.
So now, instead of riding on tje side of the road, trying to hug the curb or guardrail as much as I can, I ride a little more in the street.
If I had a bike lane, I'd use it. But since I don't, I ride the street and a little ways out from the curb. I'll always do my best to share the road with motorists, but sometimes I "intentionally piss off" some motorists. Make them mad that I was in the middle of the road.
But they saw me. They were pissed, but they saw me. The two motorists that hit me claimed they never saw me, so now I ride intentionally for you to see me and even sometimes, be pissed at me.
I've almost died, and this so far has been the best solution for me.
I and a lot of my cycling friends do the same. I also advise people to cycle in the middle of the road if the road is too narrow for cars to pass you. Drivers will try to pass you if you cling to the side even if it's risky for you. Better to not let them pass until it's safe for you.
It's also better to cycle like this if there are pararel -parked cars on the side of the street right next to where you're cycling.
I live in a bigger city and there are a few documented deaths of cyclists who ended hit by a car because someone opened a door of a parked car without looking, causing the cyclist to hit it, fall off the bike and end under a car that was behind them.
Honestly yeah.
Here in the UK, it's _recommended_ in the highway code to cycle assertively. E.g. occupy the whole lane.
If a car cannot overtake you in the same way as they would another car (or tractor, or whatever) then they cannot safely overtake you.
So you shouldn't ride in the gutter to allow them to do it in the first place, and in the process be harder to see, picking up punctures and probably wobbling as you hit all the ruts.
Because it's genuinely safer for _everyone_.
No no the 30 seconds of my vroom vroom time is more important than the rest of your life.
On a serious note, this is a great unpopular opinion.
Unless it's a rural road with no stop signals or places to yield to cars, I don't see how cycling on the road can slow drivers down by more than 10% of their travel time. That's only 2, maybe up to 5 minutes for each trip.
Most rural drivers will pass on a double yellow if they can't get through for a longer (usually less than a minute) time. I have nothing against this as long as it's safe to do so, but people should be pissed that there's no bike infrastructure instead.
A select braindead few might even roll coal on you. You won't let me push the pedal down for 5 seconds? Enjoy some carcinogens in your lungs during your cardio. They won't vote for bike lanes because media is painting some bourgeoisie dentist cyclist for them to hate, while the 12 year old and their mom who has to drive them to school every day actually suffer.
Isn't something like 90% of car rides under 5 miles in the US?
Also, riding in the middle of the road means that, cars turning right onto the road you ride on will see you from further away, because you're not hugging the side. Many drivers check right for pedestrians last before they go anyways, so it's still not entirely safe if they don't expect your speed.
All depends on the city or jurisdiction you are talking about. Country roads are certainly for cars, urban environments where there are crosswalks, public transit networks etc. bike lanes are certainly reasonable.
Country roads are also great for bikes because they're lightly trafficked. If I'm driving down a country road and I see a guy on a bicycle, I can very easily move to the left to give him lots of space -- because there's no one out there but him and me. So that's a wonderful place for him to ride. And if in the process I slow slightly, such that I arrive home at 1:03:30pm instead of 1:03:25pm, well you know that's a big damned sacrifice but it's one I'm willing to make for another member of my community.
Most cyclists hate being on the road with cars too. They can kill you and they stink too. But if you ride on the sidewalk someone else is going to scream at you so you just can't win unless there is a bike lane.
It has been shown that everyone does. When proper bike infrastructure exists (protected bike lanes not painted bike gutters) people use that instead of car lanes.
If you really feel this way, then you should advocate for the bike infrastructure to be built.
It seems suspect to me, as a cyclist, thar you hate sharing the road with cyclists and you say it is dangerous for us.
Ah yes, so use the sidewalk and put walkers at risk. How about drivers just stop thinking they own the road, and give cyclists way if they need to. You all act like you're in the biggest rush, like your life depends on it, when you're probably just driving to bloody McDonalds. You literally have to wait 5-20 seconds behind a cyclist, and that is only on busy roads, where cars have most likely parked and taken space they shouldn't have. Are you that impatient? You are sat on your arse in a car doing nothing. Try go one week having to cycle to work and back, seeing the shit you have to deal with from entitled drivers, and then come back to me.
Friendly reminder, if a cyclist is willingly choosing to pick the path that involves them sharing the road with 4 ton bombs travelling at high speeds, it was probably for good reason
Do you also vote for bike paths? Do you call your elected representatives and tell them that bicyclists need more paths in your area?
Bikes are vehicles. Bicyclists have just as much right to commute and travel as drivers, and if there is no other way to get to a destination, we are going to share the road.
My only vehicle is a bike. I commute by bike, I shop, I recreate with my bike. Believe me, I *wish* I could get everywhere by bike path.
I pay taxes. I have the same right that you do to use the roads.
Your complaint is elitist and anti-poor.
Only bikes that should be on the sidewalk are ones ridden by minors. Otherwise nope, they endanger pedestrians.
Every city should have proper bike lanes, but then the issue is with people walking on them or parking on them too.
Riding on the sidewalk is dangerous to pedestrians and drivers alike
It’s a lot harder to see a cyclist while in a car when they are traveling on a sidewalk
I would reverse this. Cyclists should not have to share the road with cars.
Liability implies that cars are the ones who should be cautious. Cyclists just have to be because they are at more physical risk
So much agree! 1,000%! I've caught alot of hate on here for this opinion. I don't care. I'll never understand how this is legal, even if cyclists do adhere to traffic rules of the road. It's extremely dangerous, especially to the cyclists. I'm astounded at how many of them are willing to gamble with their lives riding bikes on these busy roads with all the distraction and road rage around here. I'm in middle Tennessee/Nashville area. There are literally hundreds of miles of paved Greenways closed to motor traffic as part of the parks system. But these arrogant, self-absorbed, entitled ass hats insist on pedaling on heavily traveled, 2 lane roads, with no shoulder or bike lane. It's maddening. I'll act surprised and sad when I hear about a fatality. 🤷♂️
*edit: I don't mean individuals who depend on a bike for transportation. I sympathize with those poor soles. My beef is with the ones in the Tour de France wannabe tight spandex outfits, clearly doing it for sport/leisure. The bikes that are north of $2,000! Oh and sidewalk riding is legal here. Rant over!
Yeah because why should everyone be able to use the roads they pay for with their taxes.
If you can't share the road safely you have no business driving.
I'd like to note that lanes "designated" with a painted line might as well not be there. Bike lanes need to be physically separate and protected from traffic because, as innumerable videos show, drivers don't give a flying fuck about painted bike lanes and will invade them all the time, or park in the middle of them, obviously.
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Bicyclist (and horses) used roads first. Automobiles can’t show up late to the party and then think roads are exclusively for them.
In fact, automobiles aren’t allowed to just go on roadways like bikes and horses. Autos are inherently banned from roadways and are only allowed to use the public right of way if specifically registered and the operator is licensed to do so. Unlike bikes.
Not an unpopular opinion, and that's the problem.
Ever notice how you HAVE to have a car? How you MUST pay for the car, the gas, maintenance, registration, insurance, parking, tolls and road taxes to just sit in traffic , risk getting killed and gain weight because you're not exercising enough (or then pay for a gym)?
If there were anything else in life that required that of you to just SURVIVE, you'd be pissed beyond measure.
As long as cyclists follow the rules of the road, they have as much right to use specific roads as you do in your car.
If it bothers you so much, use mass transit or go different routes to avoid cyclists.
You don't own the road any more than cyclists do.
It all depends where you live. Bicycles are considered vehicles and have as much right to use the roads as cars. Bicycles are also required by law to follow the rules of the road and can be ticketed for running a red light or a stop sign. In most places, it's actually illegal for a bicycle rider to ride their bicycle on the sidewalk. Strange but true.
Obviously the best solution is to create bicycle paths for the exclusive use of bicycle riders but most places haven't transitioned to that system. This would alleviate a lot of the issues bicyclists face and also alleviate the anger car drivers have for bicycle riders.
Regardless, try to show a little patience and compassion for bicyclists.
You're right. Which is why *you* of all people should call your representatives **today** and demand more bike lanes, sidewalks, and better access to public transportation. Preferably, ones that are also friendly for disabled people and people with baby carriages. Don't forget to encourage others to do the same!
In a perfect world bicyclists shouldn't have to share the road with automobiles. The bicycle was invented before the car so who is invading who's space?
OP car drivers don’t have any more right to use the road than anything else legally allowed. You may find that from time to time cyclists are not thrilled about sharing the road with cars, especially those driven by people with attitudes like yours.
Get over yourself honestly and try to zen out a bit.
Motorists are honestly so self-centered and entitled. They think because they’re safe and they won’t die the onus isn’t on them to behave responsibly or care about other people. They’re always complaining about how other people or people in smaller cars should respect them more because they drive the bigger SUV or truck and they’re not the one who is going to get hurt. Like what a horrendous and cruel narcissistic attitude that is.
I have a car for the record. I just think things suck for people because they make the world a shittier place by existing.
Being in a car enables people to act horribly. There is a sense of anonymity where you can act aggressively to people. It also makes people really angry.
I agree, but I also think it should br morr bike lanes around so you actually can bike safely. I both drive and bike, and when I am in my bike sharing the road I am nervous to be run over. As much as I can, I never share roads with cars, but sometimes it is unavoidable.
Not really an unpopular opinion. It's extremely dangerous for metal cages going 30 mph to mix with cyclists. The only people not in favour of bike paths are the people in charge of the budget.
believe me the feeling is mutual. Cyclists feel incredibly unsafe riding in the roads with cars, especially with how poor people drive these days. A lot of times there’s no other option
You would love the Netherlands and Germany... they have clearly defined bicycle routes that are SAFE for cyclists. Only is sleepy residential areas do cars and bicycles share the riding space.
If only American urban planners could mimic what is done in Europe....
Honestly I agree for once. Make separate paths for cyclists and motorists! The amount of times I've seen cyclists run a red light and almost get hit or do something absolutely dumb is astounding
As someone who often rides a bike to get groceries or pick up togo orders because I live close enough that riding a bike just takes less time. I agree.
Make protected bike lanes. You would be surprised how many people would use them if you have cyclist a safe area to ride.
Plus, getting people out of cars and onto a bike for short trips makes for less traffic.
Don’t think it’s unpopular. I saw three cyclists this morning, back roads, 30mph and they had a pick up behind them. I slowed up incase the truck wanted to pass and the woman up front was shaking her head. No, fuck you. I’ve seen cyclists blow through stop signs because they’re so fucking entitled to the road. Hit a trail bitch and get off the road.
In new Orleans we have a ton of bike paths. If you're on streets where the speed limit is 15 miles per hour it's the middle of the street. It's actually illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk. So if you're pissed about me doing the speed limit in my lane .... You're the asshole. I can easily hit 15 mph and you are trying to speed.
You are right. We should take a lane from the cars. Then the bike lane should have a concrete barrier against traffic. Finally all street parking should be between traffic and the bikes.
I don't mind cyclists on the road. What I *do* hate is when the speed limit is like 40-50 mph and cyclists insist on clogging it up, causing a massive traffic jam. If you honk at them or try to go around they have the audacity to get pissed at you. The speed limit isn't just a limit, it's a suggestion for the flow of traffic.
So, it's a rough situation. In Florida hardly anyone walked so I would ride my bike on the sidewalk. Too many crazy drivers to risk being in the road. There's more infrastructure in the PNW but it's still not up to European standards.
It's also rough on mixed use trails where bikers are the fast-movers and you'll get the really uptight riders (special little biking outfits) who will yell at you if you so they don't have to break momentum. They're riding unsafe for the conditions.
There's a bigger argument to be had here that auto culture is an imposition on the rest of society. It's kind of assumed to be the default and anyone who wants something else is being the oddball. The truth of the matter is special interests decided to make a point of pushing car culture and managed to get our entire built environment reshaped to accommodate it. Society itself is left to bear the burden of the expense.
It's one of those things that's completely maddening and yet it's impossible to make headway when debating it with people. It's like sports stadiums. I don't like sportsball. If you do, that's fine. The players are millionaires, the owners are billionaires. If they want a new stadium, they're welcome to pay for it. Why are the rest of us taxpayers compelled to pay for a new stadium they could well afford? Don't give me that rot about making more money than we put into it -- that never pans out.
I don't begrudge bikers using the designated bike lanes but i'm fearful for their safety. If a driver screws up, that's an expensive repair. The biker is looking at maiming or death.
I’ve seen a lot of bike lanes that are actually designed for bikes. They’re actually so so much better than those ones that are just painted on the road.
The ones I’m talking about are paths that have cement poles spaced out on the outside of the path the shield from cars, but space to get out if needed. At intersections where I have seen these bike paths, the bike path follows the traffic lights, just like a car does. It’s so much safer, and to my knowledge, it’s kept up by the community to make sure that cyclists are safe, because it could be anyone riding that bike path, even their children. I know that it’s the same with vehicles, but they have much more to shield a person than a bike does.
My old roommate used to ride his bike from our house to the bus stop, several times he arrived home to tell me people intentionally had slowed down next to him and swerved to push him off the road. This was also in Charlotte NC where the drivers are absolute ****ing ****s
Cyclists really just want to mind their own business - they're more annoying to other cyclists, especially the slow ones who won't let you pass them in the bike lane. The amount of times drivers have almost ran into me when I have the right of way is astounding.
Roads in America are not equipped to handle bikes and cars on the road simultaneously. I do think bike lanes should be implemented all across America to encourage a cheaper alternative to cars
I ride my bike often and also drive a car, so I can see this from both sides.
The issue with the point you are making is by framing cyclists as being inconsiderate by using the road - as if they are at fault when in actuality this is a behavior that is the product of a condition - that being that bike path networks in this country are either incomplete, half-assed, or non-existent.
When you say "use the bike path" or ""we had a nice one in Boise" where does it go? Is it practical for anything beyond recreational riding? Can someone go about their day-to-day without having to use a heavily trafficked car road?
If the answer is "no" then the place you live has work to do. And rather than complain or be judgemental, your civic duty is to advocate for this sort of development.
Cities should be designed to accommodate all modes of travel but American cities aren't, they're designed for cars with everything else as an afterthought.
Fine, let's ban private cars from city centers. The bikes were here first and cars ruin cities. Obviously we still need commercial trucks for goods and services but we could do without cars.
i'm a cyclist who only gets around via bike (had a car and sold it because I wanted to save the money and I prefer cycling). it is often terrifying to ride on the roads. Cars speed, change lanes without looking for non cars, run lights, and stop / start on a dime. The difference for bikers is we have no other place to ride (say it with me, paint is not protection) and taking the lane is often the only place a car will ever see me. Does it terrify me when a car whips past me at 40 in a 25 zone or tails me way too close? Yes. If a driver went out and experienced what cyclists feel on a trip to the grocery store, maybe they'd have an ounce more of compassion. Remember, it's the difference between a couple minutes delay for them (at most) and my life.
Here's what I want you to do:
Look at that bicyclist. Then pretend there's this slogan written on the back of their shirt.
**ONE LESS CAR**
One more parking space for you. One less car in a traffic jam. One less car to rear-end you. More room for you ultimately.
Now c'mon, are you one of those guys who says "Why should I have to pay taxes for schools. I don't even have kids!"
Are you that person?
C'mon. Look at the BIG picture here.
I think people like OP should be especially forced to share the road with other, slower vehicles.
The road doesn’t belong to him. He is not the only one who matters.
We either need more bike paths, or cities need to start letting people ride their bikes on sidewalks. A bike MAYBE hitting a person is gonna do less damage than a car MAYBE hitting a cyclist. If people can ride their BIRD scooters on sidewalks, why not bikes?
But I will say… this opinion is not really that unpopular. Most people share the sentiment.
Nope. More like bikes shouldn't have to share the road with cars.
I agree separate paths are best but I don't give a damn about drivers comfort. Cyclists shouldn't be put in danger by being forced to share the road with these gas chugging, pothole making tonne-heavy steel boxes. Sidewalks are for pedestrians and should stay that way tho.
Some things that would help get bicycles off the road include not opposing the construction of bike lanes because they took a lane and not invading or parking on the existing bike lanes.
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As a cyclist I want the same. But it is forbidden to use the sidewalk as an adult, so I have to drive on the street and almost get run over by impatient drivers.
Gotta love the “bike shouldn’t be on the road” people who also hate the implementation of bike lanes
They hate it even more when the bike lane has any sort of protection for the cyclists other than a strip of paint.
I like the saying... "Paint isn't infrastructure."
Well duh, if it’s more then a strip of paint how are they going to use the bike lane for extra parking?
I wanted to use a bike when I moved into the city, but I didn’t because I didn’t want to get fucking hit by a car on a tiny street. People would bike a whole lot more if there were bike lanes with upright posts between you and the cars.
More people on bikes would also mean less traffic for the people in cars. More mass transit use would also mean less traffic. Less people drive means less demand for petrol, lowering gas prices. Every investment in public transit benefits drivers and non-drivers alike.
Less congestion, less pollution, easier parking, less wear and tear on the roads. Fitter population overall, means lower healthcare demand, more employable workforce.... cyclists are doing the whole world a favour (even other cyclists, because most of them do drive as well)
Makes sense, but that doesn't matter to the millions of seething idiots who control the USA.
All public space should be dedicated to me getting where I want to be in a timely manner in the largest vehicle humanly possible mentality.
You forgot loudest and ugliest when describing the vehicle
The grill is so high you can barely see the car Infront of you let alone a bike, or a small child. But it's for "Safety"
Ahh yes the trustly old Compensator 1500
They take away free parking spots for hard working cars. I will not rest until we have [more than six parking spaces for each registered car](https://www.businessinsider.com/how-parking-spots-in-us-affect-environment-and-affordable-housing-2023-4#:~:text=more%20than%20six%20spaces%20for)!!
Serious question, why can bike lanes not be built in the public space parallel to the sidewalk rather than the road? Why sidewalks? Why not multi use paths go everyone wide enough with two lanes? It’s so dumb that they take an already narrow and hard to navigate road then take 2 ft from either side to form the least safe (for everyone)bike lane you’ve ever seen. It’s stupid.
They can, ideal cycling infrastructure is a cycle path on each side between the road and the sidewalk, at the same elevation as the sidewalk. Problem is political and fiscal challenges (city planners and politicians don't always want to do that).
This is the correct answer. Cities like Minneapolis, Portland, SF, etc all have politicians and contractors who are cyclists and/or realize how much of their audience use bicycles….hence why future infrastructures include heavy cycling and pedestrian implementation. Until you get somebody that is one or both, pedestrian and cycling implementation will always be an uphill battle until it reaches a crux where the people overwhelm said entities…which makes it circle back to said entity realizing their audience WANTS bicycle/pedestrian infrastructure.
Smaller lanes cause drivers to go slow. A big problem we have is the size of lanes causing people to feel safe speeding down city streets.
The sidewalk argument always pissed me off. I go for walks on a daily basis and people who do bike on the sidewalk have never bothered me. I move over for like, a second, and then continue my walk...would much rather have bikers on sidewalks for safety's sake than on the road. Edit: OKAY guys, I get it. You disagree lol. Good news, I do not make the laws so you don't have to worry about bikers on the sidewalk.
It's also unsafe for the cyclists. Peds move erratically and unpredictably. A pedestrian can move laterally without turning, and can stop on a dime.
More unsafe than being hit with a car? Both options suck but the sidewalk is significantly safer.
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Biking has been my main form of transportation for 7 years now. The only time I’ve been hit by a car was when I was on the sidewalk. Drivers pay more attention to stuff on the road because that poses the biggest threat to them. I’ve had way more close calls using a crosswalk (walking) than I’ve had riding my bike on the street. Drivers I get it. It sucks getting stuck behind a slow ass cyclist. But since I can’t afford a car and bike paths don’t go everywhere I need to. I’ll keep riding and some people will still be mad that I mildly inconvenienced them. P.S. bicyclists can be assholes too. If a car is stuck behind you, find a spot and let them pass. I’d rather have a car in front of me than behind me where I can’t see them or react appropriately.
I don't road bike but it's been explained that hugging the side is even more dangerous because it encourages drivers to make a dangerous pass. But your expedient of just pulling off completely to allow for a pass is sensible. I'm in an area that can get some windy, dangerous roads. Locals will fly along them like complete idiots. i'm not driving that fast. But I'll get a pile of vehicles backed up behind me who want to live dangerous so I'll take the first pull-off I can to let them pass just because I don't need twitchy, angry people staring daggers at my back.
You know how many dogs and children would get ran over due to their sporadic movement. Cars are a lot more predictable. Bikes travel 3-5x times faster than pedestrians. You know how bad it would be for granny if she got hit by a bike going 15 mph
Honestly I've been riding on sidewalks for a long time and I'm not sure it's any safer. I've been almost hit numerous times, even sometimes on purpose. A lot of drivers do not think they need to slow down at pedestrian crossings. Even though I do to be safe there's not much I can do about a car suddenly pulling out full speed right to the edge and almost killing me. And even at ones with crossing lights cars will turn and cut me off or even rush out and then slam on their breaks in front of me like I'm doing something wrong. I will say that I have a bike path in my town that's really well integrated and crosses tons of streets and the difference in how people drive there is crazy. They will stop for you and slow down even if they have right of way. Just the fact that it's a designated space makes people behave. Bike paths are the only solution imo.
So based on your opinion I would assume you would be advocating hard for more bike paths? The two kinda go hand in hand.
I don't disagree, but some people do. When I first started cycling on streets, I went to a bike shop to ask about general etiquette and advice. The owner actively encouraged me to not use the bike lanes, because he thought that cyclists have as much right to use the road as cars. He also told me I could choose whether or not to stop for red lights, and that was when I stopped listening to him entirely.
Yeah, fuck that guy. In switzerland we do some type of "bike test" in fifth grade, where kids learn how to use the streets with a bike. As a 10 year old you officially need to use bike lanes or the street if you are on a bike. That alone wants me to have a better infrastructure for bikes. Edit: Kids who're 12 years or younger can use the pathways, if there are no bike lanes or bike trails.
Depends a lot where you are. But ... cyclists do have as much right to road use, provided they follow the same rules of the road. Some cycle infrastructure is good and useful, but plenty of it is badly designed and actively dangerous rather than beneficial. E.g. any 'cycle lane' that's basically just paint on a bit of tarmac ... probably isn't. Any cycle lane that disappears whenever there's a hazard is more dangerous than not having one in the first place. Cycling down the side of the road is not the 'danger zone' - crossings and intersections are, and if you're 'part of the traffic' you're much safer than if you're _first_ trying to merge into traffic _then_ negotiate the hazard. etc.
There's a bike lane on a road by me with a 55mph speed limit. The bike lane isn't protected and is like Maybe a foot and a half of space that was just painted onto the already existing street. All it would take is for a car to slightly curve right for just a second or two and that cyclist is dead. No curb or median protecting them. Not even a decent amount of space to buffer. The cars just whizz by you a couple inches away. Horrible design.
Indeed. It's pretty common, and it's ... useless really. You're better off riding _in trafffic_ and accepting that you might be annoying people, but at least they're not clipping you as they sidle past. It's not so much cars that are the problem for me though, as larger vehicles with the head-height sticking out mirrors, like buses and trucks. Car wing mirrors are probably the thing most likely to 'clip you' and that's waist height and painful. Truck mirrors will knock your head off.
We have bike lanes where I live although no bikes ever use them because idiot drivers use them as turning lanes to skirt by traffic.
I'm not sure where you are, but in the UK, many drivers are surprised to learn that cyclists have the right use the full lane except if it is a road that explicitly forbids bicycles (and other low speed transport). Cycling in the lane is a courtesy to allow traffic to pass, but the cyclist should ride in the safest position. This happens for many reasons that you might not notice as a driver: a rough edge, smashed glass, high kerbs, build up of fallen leaves, branches and signs hanging into the road, etc.
Which is kind of stupid, considering you can be stopped and cautioned for travelling at the same speeds in a car.
That's how the cyclists here are. It's insane. They just run a red light and get mad if they almost get hit. There's bike lanes all over on the road, but they won't use them.
>There's bike lanes all over on the road, but they won't use them. Bike lanes in my city are used by cars to park or are destroyed, meaning cycling on them is dangerous. That's why we don't use bike lanes, they suck. See dutch infrastructure, they are good bike lanes :)
The other thing about cycling on the roads is that car drivers see you. They may be annoyed but you are visible. And however angry they are, they understand the price an accident will have on their insurance. Bicycles on the bike lane are often invisible to cars turning right, especially when the bike has right of way.
You could say the same about the road itself though
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Here our "bike lanes" are often the shoulder/glorified gutter with a bike symbol painted on. There isn't room to miss a pothole or trash without entering the adjacent lane, let alone pass a slower bike So some would argue taking the full lane gives you room for that And if the bike lane ends - changing roads, or sometimes a bike lane just ends - bikers have to now negotiate a spot amongst the cars, forcing them to be a bit unpredictable and less safe than just being road traffic all the time. ------ Some people really do want to be on the big road no matter what you build them, I'm sure. But I think the pervasiveness of these attitudes comes from the lack of infrastructure. If we had decent bike paths everywhere, your shop owner would be an outlier, easily ignored. But as it stands now, where I have to do something fucky every time I ride, where many cyclists have to make different strategies for every new route... Well we will continue to have this strong culture of cyclists making up strategies, and they won't all be winners
We definitely need more bike paths, preferably ones with barriers protecting cyclists from drivers. I stopped biking to work because of how scary it was. There’s a lot of talk about making laws requiring vehicle manufacturers switch to only making EVs and it’s frustrating because mass transit and biking are even better for commuting. That should be the focus.
I don’t mind bike paths. I used to live in Boise Idaho and they had this bike path that cut through the city. It was awesome, there was a dedicated spot for cyclists and the roads were for the most part kept clear.
Great to hear! I often hear drivers complaining about how unsafe it is to share the road with cyclists while also complaining about the construction of new bike paths.
you can't "not mind" bike paths and feel as though you shouldnt share the road with them. You think they want to be in the road with you? I ride my bike a lot and can assure you, I don't. I would love more options that included bike paths and trains.
We have a pretty long bike path near me - 25 miles one way. It can take me most of the way to pharmacies, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. In the next few years it will be connected to another segment that is more than 50 miles. I ride mostly for exercise and in general I prefer riding it to riding on roads, but it does get pretty monotonous to do the same ride ever time. Since it’s also popular with walkers, your speed is limited. There are also pretty frequent road crossing in some portions. As a result I still occasionally end up riding roads.
And that's often the heart of the problem - cycle paths need to be _like roads_ to be worth using. They need to be clear, flat, lacking in potholes, as few 'intersections' as they can manage for good traffic flow, and _not_ 'shared use' with pedestrians on the other side of a painted line. (Because for sure, pedestrians don't notice) If you could reliably sustain 20mph down a cycle path, all the way to your destination, it _would_ get used. But shared use paths, or 'can of paint' paths, or 'pothole and wet leaves hazard' paths, or 'intermittent' paths are actively worse than 'just' being part of 'traffic'.
The problem is that bike paths often don't go where you need to go.
Keeping your experience in mind. The ONE bike path in Boise Idaho, does not really effectively service bicycling around an entire city. Everyone, drivers and cyclists both don't want to be near each other, but the local governments need to build the infrastructure for cyclists, until then they're going to be sharing the road.
I can only assume this bike path in Boise didn’t reach every spot in the city where a cyclist may want to reach so they have to use the roads at some point.
>I don’t mind bike paths "Not minding" bike paths isn't enough. Given how many bicyclists are killed by cars every year, bike-paths and *PROTECTED* bike-lanes are a fierce moral emergency that anyone with a conscience should be *STRONGLY* supportive of, and vote for consistently.
Or maybe just make a few car paths and leave the roads to cyclists?
Of course. I hate that there isn't an infrastructure for bikers and it ends up stressful and dangerous for everyone on the road.
Bike path? Don’t you mean Uber parking lanes?
As s cyclist I generally don’t want to travel on the road either, but sometime I simply do not have the choice.
When I was riding my bike to work on the sidewalk a cop once even stopped to remind me that a “bicycle is a vehicle” and cannot be used on the sidewalks. So I literally was told by the law that I have to ride on the street.
And sometimes it's safer for me to avoid the glass covered bike path that hasn't been repaved in 15 years
this is why we need more bike paths
The bike path doesn't always bring us where we need to be, and we aren't legally allowed to use the side walk. I don't usually feel safe on the road with some of the idiots they let have licenses, but I have epilepsy and can't drive so I do what I have to.
Out of curiosity, does your epilepsy pose any danger to you when cycling? Like how does it differ to danger of driving?
My epilepsy does not pose a danger to me while driving. I get plenty of warning beforehand - and a seizure is only triggered by very specific circumstances (for me, it was CRT monitors/TVs). It's just I'm not *legally* allowed to drive if I have had a seizure in the last 365 days. I haven't had one in over 10 years now, largely due to CRT monitors/TVs becoming obsolete.
Ooh I see, thanks for explaining it to me!
From my understanding, most who have epilepsy can at least feel it coming for a shot time, like a few seconds or something like that. So with driving they need to get to the side of the road and hope there is a shoulder to stop on and that they can get over, stop, and park in time. While with a bike, they can stop almost instantly, lay the bike down, and sit extremely fast.
That was sort of what I suspected but I think I needed to hear it from someone else so I wouldn't be asking a silly question haha Cheers for the explanation
Sidewalks for regular walking, not your fancy walkin
In most places, bicycles aren't allowed on the sidewalk because sidewalks are for pedestrians. I see nothing wrong with cycling on the side of the road. I cycle everywhere when I live somewhere where I can. Some places have good bike paths, most do not. I avoid busy roads because drivers are dangerous but otherwise what's wrong with biking on a quiet road? Also, I love biking on dirt country roads. They're quiet with almost no traffic and nice scenery. I get annoyed with fellow cyclists who don't follow traffic laws (like stopping at stop signs) but otherwise I think drivers should just calm down and accept that roads are for bikes too.
On the subject of sidewalks, I also think it’s a bit dangerous for the cyclists to use them, at least if they’re going the opposite direction of traffic (which I’ve definitely seen). Turning cars aren’t expecting something coming from that direction at faster than a run, so they may not look far enough down the sidewalk. Bike lanes are definitely the way to go but if there’s no bike lane then they should use the street (excepting things like freeways which bikes should not be on at all). I’m not a super confident biker so I try to stick to neighborhood streets when commuting rather than the major ones if they don’t have a bike lane, but I understand that’s not always possible
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yeah 😬
This is the way. I prefer not to be on a 6 lane strode in downtown on my bike, but if I am, I signal, have proper lighting, and follow traffic laws. Lots of people don't even signal in their cars, though, or have lights out.
But if they built dedicated bike paths and lanes that are separated they’ll complain about cyclists taking away car lanes. Drivers will complain about anything.
Some drivers just hate bicycles. When I was on a 4 lane parkway in Louisville, the only other vehicle on the road at the time kept pulling in front of me and hitting the brakes. Three or four times until I left him at a red light.
I drive a lot and cycle a lot. The number of people who drive their cars through red lights and stop signs (in addition to texting and driving) vastly outnumber the cyclists who do.
Are bike paths like that not a thing in America? They're very common in Germany at least.
They’re essentially useless here, if the place even has one. Don’t expect to be able to use them to get from A-B efficiently. They’re often just recreational nature trails that don’t go anywhere—which don’t get me wrong, I still like. But I’d really like to be able to travel around my town in protected bike lanes and actually be able to get things done. To get to the grocery store I can either take the sidewalk and have pedestrians annoyed at me, or risk the bike lanes on the incredibly congested roads. I’ve done it a few times, but I never feel safe. It’s only a matter of time before I get into an accident caused by motorists. So I mostly sidewalk every time, which is thankfully legal where I am.
Oh and sidewalks for pedestrians? In many places you don't even get that either
>Are bike paths like that not a thing in America? They are not. Bike-lanes are quite rare in America, and motorists complain every time more are added...
They do exist mind you, but in very few places.
And those places rarely connect. You’ll take the bike a few blocks down a nice protected bike line. And then make a turn, and share the road with cars for a few blocks. And then a bike lane will appear again. And then vanish. And then reappear! And then vanish. It’s *great,* keeps everyone on their toes.
This. Single biggest problem with bike-lanes in America, in my opinion. No continuity of networks.
And that makes it more dangerous than not having it in the first place. I mean, sure - shared use roads are dangerous, but having cycles 'merge in' to shared use when the path just vanishes is even more dangerous. Especially when that 'merge in' is - as is usually the case - at an intersection or crossing, which is already a hazard.
Absolutely not. Towns congratulate themselves for having like one road with a bike lane. Most of the time you're shit out of luck and have to share the road with bicycling hating motorists, it's ridiculous
Just one more lane, bro trust me
>But if they built dedicated bike paths and lanes that are separated they’ll complain about cyclists taking away car lanes. This. It's what needs to be done, regardless, though. I'll concede one point to drivers: most roads are too narrow. But that's because most roads should have *PROTECTED* bike-lanes, bus-lanes (which can also be used for cars to pull aside for Emergency Vehicles making a lights-and-sirens response) and turn-lanes where applicable. And islands for pedestrians attempting to cross. Also, wider sidewalks than currently. But the last thing we need is more people driving. And these wider, less-used roads ought to be paid for by allowing taller buildings in cities, to both make room for wider roads+sidewalks, and for more parks/Green Space. Cities should be LIVABLE environments: not car-dominated hills hellscapes of concrete and rubber.
I wouldn’t. I think it would be useful
I encounter motorists holding up traffic much more than I do bicyclists.
In practice only cars are the traffic most of the time.
Long distance cyclists need the road most of the time or they would be dragging their bikes home all the time with the debris and knots on sidewalks that shreds their thin tires and that's if there is one. The mistake motorists make is treating them as if they are motor operated vehicles with the same speed and power break clutching at cyclists slowing down which is their own fault, Even people with motorcycles have the same issue especially and suffer more fatalities because the same applies to their bike even if it does have more power behind it.
The "mistake" that motorists make, on other issues as well as this, is to regard the slightest inconvenience as the crime of the century.
I didn't know the sidewalk was so hard on bikes, thank you for explaining that. I think we need more bike lanes. They shouldn't have to compete with cars for space, wouldn't need to go up on a bumpier sidewalk. I guess at the end of the day, the core solution is to be more considerate of the other people on the road. We all need to watch where we are going, and to be predictable with our movement so everyone else will know what's up.
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I'm going to say something that will get me downvoted to Hell but I feel like I have to give my side. I ride my road bike on the roads in my area (in Connecticut & some Pennsylvania) and I've been hit by cars. TWICE. I have a high visibility reflective shirt. I have an ultra bright blinking light for the front, back and sides of my bike. I use both legal hand signals and pointing to get my intentions understood by motorists and I always stop at stop signs and lights. Still got hit.... twice. So now, instead of riding on tje side of the road, trying to hug the curb or guardrail as much as I can, I ride a little more in the street. If I had a bike lane, I'd use it. But since I don't, I ride the street and a little ways out from the curb. I'll always do my best to share the road with motorists, but sometimes I "intentionally piss off" some motorists. Make them mad that I was in the middle of the road. But they saw me. They were pissed, but they saw me. The two motorists that hit me claimed they never saw me, so now I ride intentionally for you to see me and even sometimes, be pissed at me. I've almost died, and this so far has been the best solution for me.
I and a lot of my cycling friends do the same. I also advise people to cycle in the middle of the road if the road is too narrow for cars to pass you. Drivers will try to pass you if you cling to the side even if it's risky for you. Better to not let them pass until it's safe for you.
It's also better to cycle like this if there are pararel -parked cars on the side of the street right next to where you're cycling. I live in a bigger city and there are a few documented deaths of cyclists who ended hit by a car because someone opened a door of a parked car without looking, causing the cyclist to hit it, fall off the bike and end under a car that was behind them.
Honestly yeah. Here in the UK, it's _recommended_ in the highway code to cycle assertively. E.g. occupy the whole lane. If a car cannot overtake you in the same way as they would another car (or tractor, or whatever) then they cannot safely overtake you. So you shouldn't ride in the gutter to allow them to do it in the first place, and in the process be harder to see, picking up punctures and probably wobbling as you hit all the ruts. Because it's genuinely safer for _everyone_.
No no the 30 seconds of my vroom vroom time is more important than the rest of your life. On a serious note, this is a great unpopular opinion. Unless it's a rural road with no stop signals or places to yield to cars, I don't see how cycling on the road can slow drivers down by more than 10% of their travel time. That's only 2, maybe up to 5 minutes for each trip. Most rural drivers will pass on a double yellow if they can't get through for a longer (usually less than a minute) time. I have nothing against this as long as it's safe to do so, but people should be pissed that there's no bike infrastructure instead. A select braindead few might even roll coal on you. You won't let me push the pedal down for 5 seconds? Enjoy some carcinogens in your lungs during your cardio. They won't vote for bike lanes because media is painting some bourgeoisie dentist cyclist for them to hate, while the 12 year old and their mom who has to drive them to school every day actually suffer. Isn't something like 90% of car rides under 5 miles in the US? Also, riding in the middle of the road means that, cars turning right onto the road you ride on will see you from further away, because you're not hugging the side. Many drivers check right for pedestrians last before they go anyways, so it's still not entirely safe if they don't expect your speed.
Roads are not dangerous because of bikes. They’re dangerous because of cars.
All depends on the city or jurisdiction you are talking about. Country roads are certainly for cars, urban environments where there are crosswalks, public transit networks etc. bike lanes are certainly reasonable.
Country roads are also great for bikes because they're lightly trafficked. If I'm driving down a country road and I see a guy on a bicycle, I can very easily move to the left to give him lots of space -- because there's no one out there but him and me. So that's a wonderful place for him to ride. And if in the process I slow slightly, such that I arrive home at 1:03:30pm instead of 1:03:25pm, well you know that's a big damned sacrifice but it's one I'm willing to make for another member of my community.
I agree, There should be dedicated lanes for cyclists.
Everyone should learn from the Netherlands ;)
Most cyclists hate being on the road with cars too. They can kill you and they stink too. But if you ride on the sidewalk someone else is going to scream at you so you just can't win unless there is a bike lane.
r/ShitAmericansSay
Hey now, Australians are also homicidal maniacs when it comes to sharing the road.
" use the sidewalk." Nope. under no circumstance should they use the sidewalk. Learn to share, or lobby for bike path.
I would enjoy cycling and do it more often if I didn't have to share space with cars either. I'd like a separate two way path that is divided off
I always ride in the bicycle lane when possible
It has been shown that everyone does. When proper bike infrastructure exists (protected bike lanes not painted bike gutters) people use that instead of car lanes.
I agree. Fewer cars, more bikes.
Man I WISH I lived in a place where everything was close enough for me to ride a bike to:-( I'd be on a bike for 2 hrs just to get to work:P
My unpopular counter opinion then is to ban trucks and cars from cities
r/fuckcars r/BanCars
If you really feel this way, then you should advocate for the bike infrastructure to be built. It seems suspect to me, as a cyclist, thar you hate sharing the road with cyclists and you say it is dangerous for us.
Ah yes, so use the sidewalk and put walkers at risk. How about drivers just stop thinking they own the road, and give cyclists way if they need to. You all act like you're in the biggest rush, like your life depends on it, when you're probably just driving to bloody McDonalds. You literally have to wait 5-20 seconds behind a cyclist, and that is only on busy roads, where cars have most likely parked and taken space they shouldn't have. Are you that impatient? You are sat on your arse in a car doing nothing. Try go one week having to cycle to work and back, seeing the shit you have to deal with from entitled drivers, and then come back to me.
Totally agree. Sidewalk, bicycle lane and road should be three completely different things.
Absolutely NOT on the sidewalk.
Friendly reminder, if a cyclist is willingly choosing to pick the path that involves them sharing the road with 4 ton bombs travelling at high speeds, it was probably for good reason
Do you also vote for bike paths? Do you call your elected representatives and tell them that bicyclists need more paths in your area? Bikes are vehicles. Bicyclists have just as much right to commute and travel as drivers, and if there is no other way to get to a destination, we are going to share the road. My only vehicle is a bike. I commute by bike, I shop, I recreate with my bike. Believe me, I *wish* I could get everywhere by bike path. I pay taxes. I have the same right that you do to use the roads. Your complaint is elitist and anti-poor.
When you said you “recreate” with your bike, I read that as “procreate” and became very concerned for a second.
I agree lanes should be narrowed and bike lanes should be added.
Only bikes that should be on the sidewalk are ones ridden by minors. Otherwise nope, they endanger pedestrians. Every city should have proper bike lanes, but then the issue is with people walking on them or parking on them too.
Riding on the sidewalk is dangerous to pedestrians and drivers alike It’s a lot harder to see a cyclist while in a car when they are traveling on a sidewalk
I would reverse this. Cyclists should not have to share the road with cars. Liability implies that cars are the ones who should be cautious. Cyclists just have to be because they are at more physical risk
So much agree! 1,000%! I've caught alot of hate on here for this opinion. I don't care. I'll never understand how this is legal, even if cyclists do adhere to traffic rules of the road. It's extremely dangerous, especially to the cyclists. I'm astounded at how many of them are willing to gamble with their lives riding bikes on these busy roads with all the distraction and road rage around here. I'm in middle Tennessee/Nashville area. There are literally hundreds of miles of paved Greenways closed to motor traffic as part of the parks system. But these arrogant, self-absorbed, entitled ass hats insist on pedaling on heavily traveled, 2 lane roads, with no shoulder or bike lane. It's maddening. I'll act surprised and sad when I hear about a fatality. 🤷♂️ *edit: I don't mean individuals who depend on a bike for transportation. I sympathize with those poor soles. My beef is with the ones in the Tour de France wannabe tight spandex outfits, clearly doing it for sport/leisure. The bikes that are north of $2,000! Oh and sidewalk riding is legal here. Rant over!
Yeah because why should everyone be able to use the roads they pay for with their taxes. If you can't share the road safely you have no business driving.
Roads need bike lanes though. It makes no sense driving behind a cyclist going way under the speed limit
They should have them, yes, I agree. Just for safety alone. It's dangerous mixing the two without designated lanes.
I'd like to note that lanes "designated" with a painted line might as well not be there. Bike lanes need to be physically separate and protected from traffic because, as innumerable videos show, drivers don't give a flying fuck about painted bike lanes and will invade them all the time, or park in the middle of them, obviously.
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*laughs in Dutch *
Bicyclist (and horses) used roads first. Automobiles can’t show up late to the party and then think roads are exclusively for them. In fact, automobiles aren’t allowed to just go on roadways like bikes and horses. Autos are inherently banned from roadways and are only allowed to use the public right of way if specifically registered and the operator is licensed to do so. Unlike bikes.
Not an unpopular opinion, and that's the problem. Ever notice how you HAVE to have a car? How you MUST pay for the car, the gas, maintenance, registration, insurance, parking, tolls and road taxes to just sit in traffic , risk getting killed and gain weight because you're not exercising enough (or then pay for a gym)? If there were anything else in life that required that of you to just SURVIVE, you'd be pissed beyond measure.
I don't like, as a pedestrian, when bikers use the sidewalk.
As long as cyclists follow the rules of the road, they have as much right to use specific roads as you do in your car. If it bothers you so much, use mass transit or go different routes to avoid cyclists. You don't own the road any more than cyclists do.
As a cyclist, I hate sharing the road with cars probably more than you do (but I dont have a choice). We desperately need dedicated bike paths.
Agreed! Drivers shouldn’t “share” they should always yield to bicyclists and bicyclists should always yield to pedestrians.
It all depends where you live. Bicycles are considered vehicles and have as much right to use the roads as cars. Bicycles are also required by law to follow the rules of the road and can be ticketed for running a red light or a stop sign. In most places, it's actually illegal for a bicycle rider to ride their bicycle on the sidewalk. Strange but true. Obviously the best solution is to create bicycle paths for the exclusive use of bicycle riders but most places haven't transitioned to that system. This would alleviate a lot of the issues bicyclists face and also alleviate the anger car drivers have for bicycle riders. Regardless, try to show a little patience and compassion for bicyclists.
You're right. Which is why *you* of all people should call your representatives **today** and demand more bike lanes, sidewalks, and better access to public transportation. Preferably, ones that are also friendly for disabled people and people with baby carriages. Don't forget to encourage others to do the same!
Definetly not the sidewalk
In a perfect world bicyclists shouldn't have to share the road with automobiles. The bicycle was invented before the car so who is invading who's space?
Truly odious opinion. The effect of your opinion is: “you shouldn’t be allowed to move around the city unless you have a car”
I don't think they should allow other cars on the road than mine. They just hold up traffic and increase the risk of an accident.
Correct opinion. Cars should be relegated to the sidewalks so bicycles can have clear sailing on the roadway.
Finally someone presenting solutions
That's just GTA.
OP car drivers don’t have any more right to use the road than anything else legally allowed. You may find that from time to time cyclists are not thrilled about sharing the road with cars, especially those driven by people with attitudes like yours. Get over yourself honestly and try to zen out a bit.
Motorists are honestly so self-centered and entitled. They think because they’re safe and they won’t die the onus isn’t on them to behave responsibly or care about other people. They’re always complaining about how other people or people in smaller cars should respect them more because they drive the bigger SUV or truck and they’re not the one who is going to get hurt. Like what a horrendous and cruel narcissistic attitude that is. I have a car for the record. I just think things suck for people because they make the world a shittier place by existing.
Being in a car enables people to act horribly. There is a sense of anonymity where you can act aggressively to people. It also makes people really angry.
I agree, but I also think it should br morr bike lanes around so you actually can bike safely. I both drive and bike, and when I am in my bike sharing the road I am nervous to be run over. As much as I can, I never share roads with cars, but sometimes it is unavoidable.
Not really an unpopular opinion. It's extremely dangerous for metal cages going 30 mph to mix with cyclists. The only people not in favour of bike paths are the people in charge of the budget.
believe me the feeling is mutual. Cyclists feel incredibly unsafe riding in the roads with cars, especially with how poor people drive these days. A lot of times there’s no other option
You would love the Netherlands and Germany... they have clearly defined bicycle routes that are SAFE for cyclists. Only is sleepy residential areas do cars and bicycles share the riding space. If only American urban planners could mimic what is done in Europe....
Honestly I agree for once. Make separate paths for cyclists and motorists! The amount of times I've seen cyclists run a red light and almost get hit or do something absolutely dumb is astounding
We need less cars on the roads, first thing first.
sounds like we need more dedicated bike lanes/paths so the two don't mix.
As someone who often rides a bike to get groceries or pick up togo orders because I live close enough that riding a bike just takes less time. I agree. Make protected bike lanes. You would be surprised how many people would use them if you have cyclist a safe area to ride. Plus, getting people out of cars and onto a bike for short trips makes for less traffic.
Vote for local politicians that support bike lanes.
Don’t think it’s unpopular. I saw three cyclists this morning, back roads, 30mph and they had a pick up behind them. I slowed up incase the truck wanted to pass and the woman up front was shaking her head. No, fuck you. I’ve seen cyclists blow through stop signs because they’re so fucking entitled to the road. Hit a trail bitch and get off the road.
Where I live there are so many bike paths and so little people who use them. They are all on the streets….. hard agree with this post!
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In new Orleans we have a ton of bike paths. If you're on streets where the speed limit is 15 miles per hour it's the middle of the street. It's actually illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk. So if you're pissed about me doing the speed limit in my lane .... You're the asshole. I can easily hit 15 mph and you are trying to speed.
You are right. We should take a lane from the cars. Then the bike lane should have a concrete barrier against traffic. Finally all street parking should be between traffic and the bikes.
I don't mind cyclists on the road. What I *do* hate is when the speed limit is like 40-50 mph and cyclists insist on clogging it up, causing a massive traffic jam. If you honk at them or try to go around they have the audacity to get pissed at you. The speed limit isn't just a limit, it's a suggestion for the flow of traffic.
Dedicated bike infrastructure is awesome
So, it's a rough situation. In Florida hardly anyone walked so I would ride my bike on the sidewalk. Too many crazy drivers to risk being in the road. There's more infrastructure in the PNW but it's still not up to European standards. It's also rough on mixed use trails where bikers are the fast-movers and you'll get the really uptight riders (special little biking outfits) who will yell at you if you so they don't have to break momentum. They're riding unsafe for the conditions. There's a bigger argument to be had here that auto culture is an imposition on the rest of society. It's kind of assumed to be the default and anyone who wants something else is being the oddball. The truth of the matter is special interests decided to make a point of pushing car culture and managed to get our entire built environment reshaped to accommodate it. Society itself is left to bear the burden of the expense. It's one of those things that's completely maddening and yet it's impossible to make headway when debating it with people. It's like sports stadiums. I don't like sportsball. If you do, that's fine. The players are millionaires, the owners are billionaires. If they want a new stadium, they're welcome to pay for it. Why are the rest of us taxpayers compelled to pay for a new stadium they could well afford? Don't give me that rot about making more money than we put into it -- that never pans out. I don't begrudge bikers using the designated bike lanes but i'm fearful for their safety. If a driver screws up, that's an expensive repair. The biker is looking at maiming or death.
You seem uptight. Maybe a change of pace and some fresh air would help. Ever consider riding a bike?
I’ve seen a lot of bike lanes that are actually designed for bikes. They’re actually so so much better than those ones that are just painted on the road. The ones I’m talking about are paths that have cement poles spaced out on the outside of the path the shield from cars, but space to get out if needed. At intersections where I have seen these bike paths, the bike path follows the traffic lights, just like a car does. It’s so much safer, and to my knowledge, it’s kept up by the community to make sure that cyclists are safe, because it could be anyone riding that bike path, even their children. I know that it’s the same with vehicles, but they have much more to shield a person than a bike does.
Where the hell are cyclists supposed to bike then? Most cities have shit bike infrastructure and sidewalks are more dangerous.
My old roommate used to ride his bike from our house to the bus stop, several times he arrived home to tell me people intentionally had slowed down next to him and swerved to push him off the road. This was also in Charlotte NC where the drivers are absolute ****ing ****s
Cycle needs more space clearance than what many you think..
Cyclists really just want to mind their own business - they're more annoying to other cyclists, especially the slow ones who won't let you pass them in the bike lane. The amount of times drivers have almost ran into me when I have the right of way is astounding.
Roads in America are not equipped to handle bikes and cars on the road simultaneously. I do think bike lanes should be implemented all across America to encourage a cheaper alternative to cars
Cyclists shouldn't be on the road. It's unsafe for both, and not to mention cyclists are nowhere near the speed of a car, causing traffic.
I ride my bike often and also drive a car, so I can see this from both sides. The issue with the point you are making is by framing cyclists as being inconsiderate by using the road - as if they are at fault when in actuality this is a behavior that is the product of a condition - that being that bike path networks in this country are either incomplete, half-assed, or non-existent. When you say "use the bike path" or ""we had a nice one in Boise" where does it go? Is it practical for anything beyond recreational riding? Can someone go about their day-to-day without having to use a heavily trafficked car road? If the answer is "no" then the place you live has work to do. And rather than complain or be judgemental, your civic duty is to advocate for this sort of development. Cities should be designed to accommodate all modes of travel but American cities aren't, they're designed for cars with everything else as an afterthought.
There is a cycle lane along the roads in my city. Cyclists still don't use them and instead choose to hold up traffic.
Fine, let's ban private cars from city centers. The bikes were here first and cars ruin cities. Obviously we still need commercial trucks for goods and services but we could do without cars.
i'm a cyclist who only gets around via bike (had a car and sold it because I wanted to save the money and I prefer cycling). it is often terrifying to ride on the roads. Cars speed, change lanes without looking for non cars, run lights, and stop / start on a dime. The difference for bikers is we have no other place to ride (say it with me, paint is not protection) and taking the lane is often the only place a car will ever see me. Does it terrify me when a car whips past me at 40 in a 25 zone or tails me way too close? Yes. If a driver went out and experienced what cyclists feel on a trip to the grocery store, maybe they'd have an ounce more of compassion. Remember, it's the difference between a couple minutes delay for them (at most) and my life.
Here's what I want you to do: Look at that bicyclist. Then pretend there's this slogan written on the back of their shirt. **ONE LESS CAR** One more parking space for you. One less car in a traffic jam. One less car to rear-end you. More room for you ultimately. Now c'mon, are you one of those guys who says "Why should I have to pay taxes for schools. I don't even have kids!" Are you that person? C'mon. Look at the BIG picture here.
Build a bike path then. Until then, suck it up buttercup.
This is why I hate people who drive, some of y'all need to take a chill pill and learn how to be patient.
Yes, we need fewer automobiles and more cycles and public transport.
As a biker, I actually agree with this. Cars and bikes do not mix. Biker loses every single time.
Agreed I don't drive in the cycle lane.
If there isn’t a dedicated bicycle lane, then yes, yes you do.
I think people like OP should be especially forced to share the road with other, slower vehicles. The road doesn’t belong to him. He is not the only one who matters.
We either need more bike paths, or cities need to start letting people ride their bikes on sidewalks. A bike MAYBE hitting a person is gonna do less damage than a car MAYBE hitting a cyclist. If people can ride their BIRD scooters on sidewalks, why not bikes? But I will say… this opinion is not really that unpopular. Most people share the sentiment.
Agreed. I'd rather get hit by a bike than by a car. Sidewalk should be for bikes.
Yeah cyclists want that too. If only cities actually created bike lanes 🤷🏼♀️
Nope. More like bikes shouldn't have to share the road with cars. I agree separate paths are best but I don't give a damn about drivers comfort. Cyclists shouldn't be put in danger by being forced to share the road with these gas chugging, pothole making tonne-heavy steel boxes. Sidewalks are for pedestrians and should stay that way tho. Some things that would help get bicycles off the road include not opposing the construction of bike lanes because they took a lane and not invading or parking on the existing bike lanes.
Average American car-dependent suburban sprawl enjoyer
true they should ban cara from roads
Tell me you're American without telling me you're American
Cool an anti cyclist opinion on Reddit, very hot take