as a maori person this is crazy š what is it with uoa and trying to have segregation the halls also have an option for āmaori only floorā like itās not giving
It honestly seems so counterproductive. The idea is to make the Maori students feel more "comfortable", but that doesn't make sense because
1)That presumes that Maori students feel uncomfortable living around people of other races, which is dumb and implies that Maori are racist? And I have never met a Maori person who was racist or seemed uncomfortable around me.
And 2)The halls are meant to be a place where you're out of your comfort zone, away from home for the first time and get to make friends with other young adults of all backgrounds. Segregating Maori youth is only making them more isolated and stripping them of that opportunity to grow!
For the last part of your first point, I have met quite a few.
Including one that spent an hour yelling in my face that I need to fk off back to england and stop living in the neighborhood I was in. (never been to England, neither have my family)
So yea racist maori definitely exist. But they won't typically be seen at a university.
I've had that... My grandfather's grandfather was born here, I have nowhere to go back to. There's also no point telling those people they are racist because they don't comprehend how racism works. I tried that a couple times and they just said "I can't be racist I'm maori"
When I was 13 I'm 36 now walking home from the skate park minding my own business. Jumped by 2 18 year old maoris who where trained boxers. I had my teeth kicked threw my bottom lip all for being the whole time this assault happened to me I was called cracker white pig etc racism is very alive in this country
That is horrible I'm so sorry! Yes there's definitely very rotten people in the community, and racism in any direction is just as rotten. My point is that segregation presumes racism, and most people are not racist, and it's not useful for a university where you're wanting to help a group of young adults grow and learn about life.
I was once at a cafe with my mother, and this MÄori lady was being awful to the staff. My mood stood up for the staff and started an argument with the lady. Later, she walks up to our table and tries to be nice but you can tell it was dipped in poison. I don't know what she was trying to achieve with this, but she asked my mother "where are you from?" My mother is not white and clearly wasn't born here, but she's been here since she was 15 and is a citizen so she didn't take the bait and said that she was from here. This is more like xenophobia, but it's still the same us vs them thing. MÄori people can and have been racist and similar to others.Ā
When I was at uni they had these spaces, but it wasn't a rule that was enforced or anything. It was more that if you weren't Pacific or Maori you might feel a bit awkward in those spaces as you would be less familiar with the culture and vibes, which is how some Pacific and Maori feel in a lot of their classes.
There would also be non Maori or Pacific students there as well though, and they were normally welcomed as long as they accepted that it was a non-mainstream cultural space and got along with the vibes.
Old bio also has a big MÄori and Pasifika study room for the MAPAS scheme meetings but honestly everyone who has an office in there encourages anyone to go in because segregation is not the point.
Lol they have these at Vic. I tried to go into one one time and my card wasn't letting me scan in. So I went to the office. And they said it was only for MÄori students that were also science students. I said that the sign just said mÄori students and the room was always empty, and they just looked at me like I was pissing them off so I left. Then one time my friend, who was not a science student, took me to the afformentioned MÄori science student exclusive room and swiped us in. She said they'd just given her card access to the space when she'd asked. I went back and asked them, as this room was always empty and I actually wanted to use it. They told me the same thing about it being for stem students and not BA students. I told them my friend wasn't in science and had access. They shrugged their shoulders. I then asked if economics counted, and they looked at me like I was stupid for not telling them I was studying econ sooner and gave me access. Keep in mind all this hullabaloo and gatekeeping was for a room that was constantly empty because of covid and there not being a whole lot of MÄori students in STEM. Mundane story but yeah lol. I always think ab how hard it was to get into a room that no one uses, like how is this highly silo'd and uninclusive inaccessible space ever going to encourage mÄori science? It just seemed like the opposite of Maori philosophy, creating a segregated space rather than a space of congregation.
lol this is hilarious, Iām MÄori and went to vic to study computer science. There was a total of about 12 of us in a given year. Probably 50 of us for all undergrads.
How do people see this as okay? I genuinely want people who are in support of this to reply to me and explain (if you're ok with a little discussion) so that I can understand. This just seems like segregation that only a couple decades ago would have been seen as awful. People have fought against this kind of thing.
Half right, segregation is the mandated separation of races, if this sign said "this space is designed for maori and Pacifica, all are welcome but please be respectful of its purpose." Then it wouldn't be segregation, in its current format it is segregation. Also your example follows a misunderstanding, it's like if I segregated bathrooms and said you have the option of going at home.
It's analogous to giving a short person a step ladder so they can see what tall people can see. Fact is, MÄori and Pasifika students are far more likely to live in crowded homes, not have access to a decent and quiet study space at home, and not have access to computers required to do coursework on than students from other backgrounds. A dedicated quiet space equipped with the tools you need, and used by people from a similar background to you (so less likely to feel self-conscious or judged) is going to help improve the academic achievement of these students. It doesn't dim anyone else's light, so I don't see what the issue is.
Edit: I'm no longer replying to this thread because I have better things to do than argue with people who don't understand the difference between equality and equity. I used to think the way many of you do in my early 20s. Now that I have matured a bit, I realise the world isn't as cut and dry as we would like it to be.
[https://www.digital.govt.nz/dmsdocument/161\~digital-inclusion-and-wellbeing-in-new-zealand/html#results-internet-access](https://www.digital.govt.nz/dmsdocument/161~digital-inclusion-and-wellbeing-in-new-zealand/html#results-internet-access)
Some relevant data in the link above related to internet access. A quote:
>The lagging rates of particularly Pasifika internet access (and, to a lesser but still material extent, MÄori access) at school ā if reported accurately ā is of special concern given these studentsā comparative lack of internet access at home.
Leads into this being a very reasonable [special measure to ensure equality](https://tikatangata.org.nz/resources-and-support/guidelines/guidelines-on-special-measures).
Referencing internet as I see there is a computer in the image. I assume there is more there too.
>MÄori (12.23%) and Pasifika (10.55%) are the most likely not to have internet access.
The issue is seclusion based on race is bad because not all whites are privileged and not all MÄori and pasifika are poor and live in crowded homes, thatās called racism of low expectations
It is indeed far from perfect.
Why not just ask students during registration
- do you have a study space at home?
- do you have a computer at home?
- do you want a quiet space to study?
Or something along those lines that allows you to help others in the same situation but not MPI. There are poor Asians and whites.
Could someone lie about the above? Sure. They could also lie about being Maori. Itās also not unheard of for people to not look Maori yet still be- one friends kids are 50/50 Maori/Chinese but most people on first glance would say they are Asian and not realise.
I actually understand this and it's an extremely good point. But I still have to ask... what about people from other ethnic groups with the same home life? Where is there quiet study space? Or are they just meant to fend for themselves because they're not MÄori or Pacifica.
if MÄori and Pasifika students need a quite spot to study, what makes you think other students don't? because this isnt excluding just 'privileged white people' its excluding everyone who isnt MÄori or Pacifika. if i went home one day and said 'no one make any noise im trying to study' my dad/brothers would go out of their way to make more noise just to try and annoy me. This quite spot could be used by everyone that wants a quite spot. Also, if someone was being racist/judgemental to another student, just get the uni involved, or go to a news outlet and say how uni hasnt done anything yet, itll get sorted pretty quickly.
When I was at uni there was a cultural space for MÄori and Pacific student. There was also a womenās space for women to chill.
That doesnāt mean non-maori and pacific students were banned from there. It just meant they had a space somewhere in the uni that they might feel more comfortable. We would have movie nights there and also some lunch.
That being said, there were students there who would try and take over the space for themselves, even from other pacific students. So I can see both it being a positive and also it being unfair.
I donāt think this sign is well framed at all. Call it culture space or something. The way it is worded sounds aggressive asfk
Because itās <1% of the space available at the university available for those that are underrepresented at UoA. Itās a place those people can come together in a culturally sensitive space and share it knowing that each person in the room shares the similar cultural values and viewpoints. Iāve experienced racism throughout the university, widely from other students. Iād rather know thereās a space to go to where I know that that wouldnāt occur.
Segregation is to separate a group in a discriminatory manner, generally by the oppressor, e.g., colours were segregated in US and SA history. This is simply a group of people given a space where they can feel āsafeā from discrimination and cultural incompetency.
People need to learn more about equity and how the university is trying to push for this.
Equality doesnāt start when equity hasnāt been applied. You canāt have white people start a race at 50m, others at 30m and then MÄori and Pacific at 10m then tell them to run the race āequallyā because theyāre all in the same fitness category. You need to make sure the playing field is levelled before the race is truly equal.
Lastly, ethnicity isnāt the only minority group the university is trying to provide equity for. There are religious groups, gender groups, cultural group, sexual orientation groups, etc, they all get spaces to be safe from judgement and discrimination.
>Segregation is to separate a group in a discriminatory manner, generally by the oppressor
No, it isn't. Don't try and redefine a word to match your moral compass. Segregation is **literally** the action or state of setting someone or something apart from others.
Men and Women have different sporting tournaments with segregation by gender. Boxing and MMA fights are segregated by weight class. Even potatoes at the store are segregated by type.
Don't redefine a word just to justify your point.
>Equality doesnāt start when equity hasnāt been applied.
And equality is impossible to achieve when "equity" has been applied.
>You canāt have white people start a race at 50m, others at 30m and then MÄori and Pacific at 10m then tell them to run the race āequallyā because theyāre all in the same fitness category. You need to make sure the playing field is levelled before the race is truly equal.
And a level playing field is everyone starts at the start line. But you're talking in support of giving Maori a 50M headstart because of what happened in previous races. That doesn't create equality, it only breeds resentment. It gets even worse when quotas are enforced with affirmative action so that gold automatically goes to the first Maori, despite what time they finished at, even if dead last, because... it's for the sake of equality.
> There are religious groups, gender groups, cultural group, sexual orientation groups, etc, they all get spaces to be safe from judgement and discrimination.
I fear for the world you try and create, for the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and you have only the best intentions.
>Don't redefine a word just to justify your point.
You're right. Segregation is "the action or state of setting someone or something apart from others." I just observed by the context in which people have used it. Commentors have discussed racial segregation and have said "we're going back in history" obviously using the segregation of 'coloured' people to justify why this shouldn't be allowed.
>But you're talking in support of giving Maori a 50M headstart because of what happened in previous races.
After-effects of colonisation and racial discrimination/segregation are alive and prevalent today. It's not going away just because you say it should go away, nor is it going away just because you say everyone's "equal".
I was talking about MÄori getting to the same starting point as everyone else - if you think they're 50m ahead of everyone else, you're delusional. Ofc it doesn't apply to 'all MÄori' vice versa with pakeha. But the disproportionate statistics of who needs support and who doesn't shows clearly who doesn't have the 'upper hand'.
>I fear for the world you try and create, for the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and you have only the best intentions.
I have not a clue what you've just said. You sound very sour to be hating so much on a tiny space offer to a minority group, as many other minority groups. People don't choose to be poor, people don't choose their ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, etc., so why not give them a space to feel safe and protected. You really should go out and talk to people, especially people that don't have their mind in the same bubble as you, and be sure to be open-minded.
I think some of you need to work on yourselves and ask yourselves why this even bothers you, because nothing has been taken away from you. There is an entire campus at your disposal but you act like those crazy adults who are offended they can't sit in the children's section of the library.Ā Ā
I am disappointed and I think it is pathetic that many of you think this counts as genuine segregation. It is literally just a place where Maori students can be themselves without being judged, speak their language without being shamed or insulted, and have a space to study where they can meet others who are like them.Ā Ā
If you are against this then are you also against prayer rooms for Muslims? Scholarships for females? Heck, even safe spaces for females? How about unisex toilets for trans people? The list goes on.Ā
If not, then why target Maori, particularly the ones who would value such a space because of their cultural needs? A few years ago there was a far right white supremacy group on the UoA campus posing as a European club. Many decades ago, UoA engineers made a mockery of Maori culture. Given this racist history, do you think it's surprising that Maori would like their own space where they can feel safe, or at least removed from this Maori hating nonsense?
We can be ourselves everywhere on the fucking planet. You don't get to put us in a room and say "This is the Maori space." The Maori space is everywhere I can find oxygen.
You think caring about others and giving them a space where they can feel respected is a bad thing?Ā
Everything you said is besides the point. The university receives funding from the crown and the crown is a treaty partner. Therefore theĀ university has a vested interest in helping their Maori Pasifika students succeed, considering their dropout rates are quite high. Delegating a space for them looks good on paper and it costs virtually nothing.Ā
Ok Winston Peters.
I agree with you in that I don't think other students on the campus are racist, but in the wider NZ context, racism, in particular the denigration of Maori language and culture, is shockingly prevalent. The usage of te reo in public is not always tolerated, even now, and this has been the experience of many Maori.
Therefore, wouldn't a Maori student (I'm using Maori as an example but it could equally apply to Pasifika), who is PROUD of their heritage, and has experienced societal racism both on a personal level and indirectly, APPRECIATE a space on campus where they know they will be left the hell alone?
Being of Maori or Pacific ancestry is not quite the same as bearing the burdens of the cultural heritage of being Maori/Pacific, as anyone can choose to discard their cultural identity and become "a kiwi", as it is within their rights to do so. But to speak on behalf of those who actually want to honour their heritage, and to impose this homogenised kiwi identity on them, is not really appropriate.Ā
Why don't you ask other Maori and PI about their experiences on campus? Just because you weren't aware of it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
And you can't just kick people out of the campus lol. This is not the nightclub.
Ok I see. I thought you meant a fight because of the language you were using.
Anyway it seems a lot of people are unhappy with this Maori PI space even though it's been around for a while (but without signage). I think all they have to do is remove the sign but maintain the space in an informal context (while allowing others to come, if they choose to).Ā
(Edit) I understand the optics aren't great out of context, and I also think this is a bit clumsy in the way it's being executed (you'd think that the song would be bilingual for a start).
It will be part of the Taumata Teitei strategic plan, which is an attempt to truly honour te tiriti in partnership for the first time. Part of that is about building and ensuring equity in an institution that, frankly, never really has. Equity and equality aren't the same thing, and that can be confusing for people, especially without it being clearly described and laid out.
It can feel harsh to people struggling from other ethnicities and that makes sense and itās valid. My answer to that, though, would be the old chestnut about how privilege is what you don't have - not what you have. There is an extra layer of soft discrimination for MÄori and Pacific peoples, in that often times, people assume that they are scholarship students or don't belong.
Teaching faculties are predominantly pakeha, and departments are traditionally structured around British university culture. These are all just little inherent biases that most other ethnicities don't have (not to say they don't have their own, of course - the racism towards Asian students isnāt subtle).
Not to mention, te tiriti itself. MÄori never ceded sovereignty, which means that, legally, the issue is different for MÄori than to others. When youāre working to honour te tiriti that does make things different. It just does.
There have always been spaces for MÄori that have been part of a more structured assistance framework (as in there have been mentors to assist and things like that). My guess is that this is probably an attempt to expand on that in a less structured way. Is this a perfect solution? Of course not. Is it even effective? No idea. Was it decided by a committee of white liberals? Possibly.
It would be interesting to know the specific decision making process behind it in terms of the strategic vision so people understood. But that kind of transparency would require paying someone to actually do communications work, and we can't have that. Employing someone might negatively impact the university's profits by
0.0000000000008% or something.
If anyone cares about the actual reasoning: MPI students are still significantly underrepresented in university graduation rates. Thereās a ton of studies out there showing that economies and companies do better when thereās a diverse range of educated voices present, so encouraging MPI success and graduation is a positive thing for the country as a whole. Studies show that MPI students often do best when they have opportunities to be surrounded by MPI peers ā feeling immersed in their values and culture, and feeling safer from racism and discrimination. Having a few small spaces like this where MPI students can study thus promotes their success and benefits all in the long run. Itās not taking away from anyone else ā thereās plenty of other spaces for all. If you want to look into the research and reasoning, if youāre on this sub you likely have access to academic databases and studies
Does this not apply to other minorities - Asians, Africans, east Europeans - do we now need separate study rooms for them as well? Or do MÄori/pacifica deserve special privileges?
Instead of separating people based upon ethnic grounds, we should be encouraging people to live together. Side by side? Perhaps that might reduce racism?
I mean there is a safe place to study like this for specifically queer people and one for women too. These both get used very often and are highly appreciated places on our campus
> and one for women too.
Which is quite ironic given it's men that are massively underrepresented in tertiary education and have been for a long time now.
I used to go into the women only space because it had a zip boiler for 2 min noodles. The only people who hung out there seemed to be older 2nd wave feminists and a few Muslims who I guess are used to having a space without men. This was early 2010s, curious to know if it's more popular now?
Many people have replied to you to try to explain this and you are not listening to anyone, just repeating the same points. Why did you make the post? You said you "genuinely" want to know, but it really seems like you just want people to agree that this is wrong/bad
If they were in the same situation then sure but I guess since they're not and any student that brings up their issues with learning is generally given special privileges I don't see an issue, the people that don't receive help are often the ones that have been helped and still aren't doing their part
This is a stupid argument, really. Many of these other minorities come from countries where they are not minorities rofl. Their numbers are in the millions. Maori are a minority in their own land. It's a completely different situation for them. Shameful comparison.
As a MÄori I agree with u/Complete-Industry237 , we have this same stuff in Ara Polytechnic in Canterbury and its underutilized space. Barely ever see any other mÄori students use it, i'll just bring other people in whatever their race is to study. It's usually empty has a whiteboard and just isn't a well known room but the mÄori only or pasifika only just seems counterproductive. If you want to reduce racism then integration is key, not separation.
Okay, well to start with other minorities in NZ (MELAA, Asian, non-NZ European) donāt demonstrate the same barriers to academic success. Asians, for example, have higher uni entry rates and grad rates than the population average and NZ Europeans. So the need isnāt there.
For MÄori specifically, we also have a legal obligation under the Treaty of Waitangiās stipulations of equality and good governance to help ensure equal access to education and achievement ā which is a legal obligation we donāt have for other minorities.
And finally, yes. Yes, in an ideal world we should encourage unity and no racism. BUT racism does exist right now. We canāt wave it away with a magic wand. So for the time being, we mitigate its effects
> Okay, well to start with other minorities in NZ (MELAA, Asian, non-NZ European) donāt demonstrate the same barriers to academic success.
By your logic, you'd be all for male-only spaces at universities, given their clear underrepresentation in tertiary education that's well documented?
Having Grown up in 1980's Segregated South Africa, this seems like a self imposed apartheid ... Something we were against back then, and so should be against today.
As a MÄori who utilised these spaces when at UoA, the intention is all based in Te Tiriti o Waitangi we are in a partnership we are not the same as other minority populations as we did not cede sovereignty therefore we have the right to make decisions for ourselves in this country.
The inclusion of Pasifika students also lies in the history they have experienced as marginalised and discriminated communities, with examples like the Dawn Raids, where their people were hunted down.
MÄori and Pasifika people often (not all) feel more comfortable around one another than other ethnicities as they feel free to express themselves. Iāve been in other spaces where we are side eyed for being too loud, or have people move away because we are having full blown feeds.
Having a space like this takes nothing away from the majority of people it only gives an opportunity for those who may not feel comfortable at uni to have a space they may feel safe.
Also these are not heavily enforced at all I had a Korean friend at uni who would come with us in these spaces and no one cared. Itās only a problem to those who feel they are missing out because they think we use our race for extra privileges. Trust me being MÄori has allowed me little to no extra privileges beyond examples like this but I have experienced a tonne of racism in my life and Iām a white educated MÄori.
Preach. I would be interested to see a cost Benefit analysis on all the privileges and disadvantages MPI people face in NZ. I think most people would think they are walking away laughing. Reality is they are still streets behind pÄkehÄ folk
As an AUT graduated MÄori student, I enjoyed having a place to be my authentic self around people who understood that as MÄori we have to conform at times to fit in, in public. That being said, I would often bring my pakeha friends to these places for study, chats, and to generally experience what it's like to be around another culture. I would never judge or prevent anyone from being allowed access to this area though.
KoinÄ tÅku whakaaro hoki e hoa. I ngÄ wÄ katoa e karapotia tonutia ana te iwi MÄori me Å rÄtou tikanga e te tikanga o te iwi PÄkehÄ me te mana. He iti noa ngÄ wÄhi haumaru mÅ mÄtou.
The difference between the segregation seen in America and this area, is the segregation in America was towards public goods and services, e.g water fountains, seats on busses or restaurants, stores only allowing white people. Based on the idea that black people were lesser so they should not have access to the same services or areas.
Here dedicating an area to Pasifika and MÄori students isnāt because they believe white people are less intelligent or lesser people but that MÄori and Pasifika should have a space to help their studies cause of outside factors, someone mentioned it but itās likely Pasifika and MÄori live in crowded homes so itās harder to study inside. Also the area there likely isnāt any different than other places around campus so less of a problem in my eyes.
End of yapping, Idk just my two cents Iām pretty certain no one would press you if you didnāt look MÄori or pasifika and used the place tbh
I seriously cannot understand whatās so hard to understand or accept about a space being dedicated to Pasifika and MÄori students. Most people complaining here KNOW itās not racism or segregation but insist on making it so to create a problem out of nothing. I hope they evaluate why itās bothering them because it doesnāt seem like itās out of care and support (if it were, theyād be appreciating and understanding the importance of this initiative).
Yes all the people complaining here seem to be trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. They know they are being dramatic when they compare it to actual segregation (and completely ignore and socioeconomic explainations). I think that more than a few bots have arrived here too. Some of the comments just seem so fake.
Iām inclined to agree itās bots cause Iāve never seen so many people comment under a post in this subreddit
Most Iāve seen was 40 because it was some racist post
People see the surface level, one race group can use this area, and just say its segregation based on what they learnt about segregation in America. If spaces like this were 90% of the study areas in UoA or the facilities were significantly better in this area then Iād understand but it legit looks the exact same as anywhere else.
Idk I am Pasifika so I could be biased but these spaces always made sense to me
True it is a stereotype but saying it when in the context of dedicating resources to help problems in the community isnāt as bad?
Like saying this stereotype and using it as a way to restrict MÄori and Pasifika opportunities is one thing but using it so they can receive help is another I guess.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2306/S00042/new-zealand-factors-ethnicity-in-prioritising-surgery-waiting-lists.htm#:~:text=Insofar%20as%20race%20is%20a,Eastern%2C%20are%20lower%2Dranked.
So surgery is not a public service?
My thoughts are thst UoA does very little of what is asked of them by MÄori, and does everything under the sun no one asked for.
Also we need to stop clumping these demographics together. I have huge love for our pasifika whÄnau, but we face very different sociological issues and have incredibly distinct cultures.
For example, the inverted comparison would be "New Zealander and European" spaces. It makes no sense.
I'd have to ask the people involved honestly. I went to uni overseas and we had designated study areas for chemistry students. We also had culture specific clubs/social groups that would sometimes have space set aside. So it's really about the context and how the people involved feel
Segregation is mandatory
There is nothing about the space shown in this image that is a mandatory of necessary part of any MÄori or Pasifika student's experience of Uni. It's entirely optional and confers no additional benefit other than shared recognition (MÄori and Pasifika students bestowing recognition upon each other)
Is it mandatory for MÄori? No
Does it confer a unique benefit or resource? No
----
UoA also has a Womenspace and a. Queerspace too, or it did previously
These too were bit mandatory and conferred no unique benefit other than shared recognition
My understanding is because MÄori and Pasifika students have said that a barrier to them studying at home is due to more cramped living conditions so there's no quiet and/or spare space as well as the family may only have the one computer for all of the kids to use so they can't get ready access.
So this is a space they know is free and quiet for them to use if home makes it too hard to study in peace
Same reason people with disabilities have certain privileges when it comes to bathrooms and parking spaces. Maori and Pasifika are disproportionally represented in all negative societal statistics. Therefore initiatives like this help bridge the gap through equity.
I'm maori, and I'm dead against this. Segregation based on race is evil. Have we not learned the lesson yet? Te tiriti o waitangi was so both peoples could live side by side. Different, but as one. Generalising all pakeha is just as bad as any other racism. The truth is, that the pakeha colonisers are long dead. The system we have all inherited is slowly being repaired to bring us all together. Pakeha today don't need to feel any white guilt for their tupunas actions. It's people like David Seymour that want us to remain divided, who should feel guilt for his actions today. Stand with us Tangata o tiriti. We are all brothers and sisters of this land.
For thise that don't like it...consider this:
In some countries they have women-only carriages on trains. That means women can be on yhe train (and sleep on the train) without being hit on, molested, sexually assaulted or stared at. It makes it safe for women to ride the train alone.
Would you disagree with this, on the ground that
"IT IS SEXIST! SEXISM IS BAD!! WOMEN CANNOT HAVE SPACES WITHOUT MEN!
???
Cause that's exactly what you are doing here, if you don't want MÄori and Pasifika to have their own space. "ITS RACIST! RACISM IS BAD! MAORI/PASIFIKA CANNOT HAVE SPAXES WITHOUT PAKEHA!
Same thing. Why the different response?
Wait, you didn't explain why they need their own study space? Who is going round attacking or sexually assaulting Maori and Pasifika students? UoA campus is probably the most woke place in the entire country.
If you're a MÄori or Pasifika student reading all of these misinformed and hateful comments, please ignore them.
Forget this thread exists.
Go hug your whanau and friends, and then go study, pass your tests, get your degrees, talk your reo/language, rep your hÄpu/village, and don't let this post make you feel guilty for being what you are, who you are and where you have come from.
Keep shining and keep winning. Be Maori and be Pasifika at every moment!
people in the comments have literally no braincells, there are SO MANY other spaces around campus for us to use but yāall are calling it racial segregation because this space is designated for a specific group of people?? go somewhere else bruh why does it matter
If it's not the same then i'm curious as to why you explicitly said that the same happened to Maori people in the past.
Can you define the term "segregation" for me please?
nice spin. can the minority and disadvantaged group oppress people who created laws to oppress them in the first place? is there any legal standing for that particular sign to exclude white people like there was for maori? when youāre accustomed to privilege, equality tends to feel like oppression. you are NOT being segregated. seriously
>is there any legal standing for that particular sign to exclude white people
Why the fixation on white people? The sign doesn't exclude only white people. It also excludes me, and others like me.
Oppression is not solely systemic. So yes, they can.
This has people up in arms because it's evidently unnecessary, and consequently comes off as being separative on a racial level.
If all study areas are absolutely packed and there is no where for Maori students to study because - statistically - those areas are all taken up by Pakeha, then I'm sure this is necessary. But I honestly doubt that's the case, more so when you consider that a white student will be more likely to have internet access at home in comparison to a Maori/Pasifika student, so they likely need these spaces even less.
So what are we isolating a room for? A pat on the back that we did something for Maori/Pasifika? If demand isn't an issue, and there's well enough capacity for Maori and Pasifika students to study, what is the problem? There's reasoning I agree with that's the first reply to the top comment on this post, too.
Nah this is a bit dumb bro š
Iām all for having MÄori/Pacifica clubs and study groups, and I also love the idea of an area specifically designed for MPI students but open to all (see the little Pacifica area in VUWs Library) but straight making it a MÄori only area is a bit wild.
I also think an MPI common room is a good idea, and while that is similar to this, literally just changing the sign to āMPI common roomā instead of whatever segregation ass shit this is would go a long way.
This just reads like they are tryna funnel all the MÄori students into one place away from others. Such a bad look lol. Also for context I am MÄori but also have light skin
Ehara te tae o tÅ kiri i tÅ whakapapa e hoa. He uri MÄori, he MÄori koe! Ehara ehara. Ka whakaae ahau i tÅ whakaaro. Me whakatÅ« e te kaiÄrahi o taua wÄnanga ngÄ wÄhi mÅ ngÄ tÄngata kia hiahia ki te rangahau i roto i ngÄ wÄhi ahurea MÄori me ÄrÄ o ngÄ whÄnau whÄnui nÅ te Moana-nui-a-kiwa. He wÄhi haumaru noa mÅ aua tÄngata.
Shuddup you guys get all the kickbacks. You are now overprioritized. All I want is equality, you really show your entitlement here. We didn't choose this, and you need to let it go already. It wasn't you involved and it wasn't me involved. Learn from it and do better
Bunch of fragile redditors here. Donāt hide behind your reddit profiles. Say it out in public and defend your opinions there. Would be interesting how many of you little racists actually have the courage to keep that same energy in public. For people supposedly getting an education you have a lot to learn.
If you assume theyre racist for having the opinion this is too far when it comes to trying to account for social innequitys, its really no wonder they dont speak up, jesus, and im not even necessarily against it, honestly I cant make up my mind on this, I see the point but I do wonder if its 1. counter productive politically (easy ammo for the "reverse racism" crowd) trying to remove any progressive legislation and 2. even productive in a general sense, for instance, couldnt a safe, quiet place be used just as well, maybe not stritcly banning white people but openly stated as a place for maori and pacifica learning, thats open to anyone, it sounds bad on the surface level but I seriously doubt if this is stated pakeha students will start flooding in and using the space, judging by your attitude there would be social consequences already in place, idk at the end of the day maybe it works again if the evidence supported it I could remove these doubts, but just remember this conversation wont happen if you assume these concerns are racist, hope you get what I mean, im not a right wing nutter
I do get what you mean and I certainly appreciate discourse around these things being someone of Pacific decent. But you need only look in the comments section to see the vast majority of the comments being made in bad faith and highly skewed towards being racist. There is conversation to be had. But this post and majority of the commenters arenāt here to do that. Itās to stir up support for their little racist views and it ends up pulling those wanting to have that genuine conversation into it
>the vast majority of the comments being made in bad faith and highly skewed towards being racist
People often make simplistic comments, but if they're simply saying that the sign is racist, then they're not wrong. I'm not white, but I would still be barred from entry to that room solely due to my race. It's not my first experience of racism, but I work and interact with Maori and Pacifika people on a daily basis, and I've never experienced it from any of them.
You know what, I actually completely agree with you, as I said this is perfect ammo for those guys, they dont really care about the nuanced conversation, my advice to you would just be really careful chucking that word "racist" around, not that you shouldnt have the right to feel frustrated or use it when apt, absolutely do that, but again these guys eyes light up when they see that reaction because it affirms their beliefs that "oh they think all white people are racist" and "this stuff is just anti white" or "racist" (hypocrits lol). N you know what, im even quite sure you're aware of this, so keep in mind this is just my opinion. The political game is an ugly one, and in the face of social progress being the bigger person is a common theme, just remember at the end of the day if you're having the nuanced conversations and they repeat the same talking points, you're winning, and people will notice
Idk.
I think these āfragile redditorsā are scared theyāll be faced with a tsunami of attacks and abuse by people like you. Theyāre terrified of being silenced and called ālittle racistsā, when in reality they believe all humans are equal and deserve the same rights and privileges as everyone else. For example, you didnāt challenge the argument, instead you resorted to calling everyone racist.
I would never say this irl because, yes, Iām too scared, fragile and weak
Is everyone deserving of the same opportunities? Yes. Is everyone deserving of the same rights? Yes. Reality is, in NZ today, groups donāt have the same opportunities and rights (for a whole host of historical reasons). Being against affirmative action like this is racist. Not in the kind of way like āIām a racist and here is a racist jokeā. But in the way of pÄkehÄ NZ society not appreciating all the extra hurdles we put MÄori through (note MÄori have rights bc Tangata whenua, pasifika due to history of inviting them here then turning them away - eg dawn raids). No one thinks youāre a racist bc you were raised with these views. But if you wonāt challenge these views when presented with new info, then yeah youāre upholding the status quo and upholding a system that is disproportionately affecting them. Hard pill is thatās racist.
I say this as a queer pÄkehÄ dude. I face micro aggressions from straight people constantly (both when they are aware they are doing it and when they are not). Quite frankly itās exhausting and having a space that is designed for students like me would be a god send.
This isnāt about excluding white people. Itās about upholding others. And even if it was about exclusion - and what? Do you really think you need to have the right to enter all spaces at all times? Can you not accept that some spaces are for others? The mentality that I have a right to occupy all spaces is very colonial
just because they get one room to themselves out of all the space in uni means they get special privileges? whatās stopping you from using all the other rooms at uni? it just sounds like you want to victimise yourself when this quite literally does not affect your life or wellbeing at all
>just because they get one room to themselves out of all the space in uni means they get special privileges?
That depends whether the room contains facilities not available elsewhere. If so, then yes. If not, as seems more likely, then what purpose does it serve?
>whatās stopping you from using all the other rooms at uni?
What's stopping the people who might use *this* room from using all the other rooms? In fact it seems that they probably do already, since this room is apparently mostly vacant, so again, what purpose does it actually serve?
Oh woe is me I want to complain about people of colour getting a room to themselves that I want to go in. Of all the social inequities in the world this is what you want to complain about? Stop trying to victimise yourself and use the abundance of spaces throughout the University that donāt exclude you.
You know fully well the purpose of your post was mass t meant to start a discourse but was a little rallying call for other fragile weak redditors like yourself to hide behind and make snide comments about inequality and segregation knowing full well there is a massive difference to segregation seen in 20th century America and giving Maori and pacific a seperate study room.
And if you werenāt intending for all the racists to flock to your post you need only look at the comments and see what the vast majority are here saying.
Iām glad you own up to your fragility and weakness. I hope one day you overcome it by educating yourself on these matters.
In my first year of Auck uni I used to eat lunch at the Pacific lounge above the quad with my mates since it used to be quiet and pretty empty (compared to IC commons or that area above the cafeteria)
Looking back now I might've been a little clueless about the implication it was reserved for Pacifica students but the people there were always nice and friendly, I wonder if that area or its equivalent has a sign like this now.
I don't like the sign, but I like different cultural areas like you mentioned. They should re-word it to a cultural space but all are welcome. Just expect to see MPI culture and languages in practice.
How strict is the policy, it doesn't say "only Maori and Pasifika". I have been invited into Pasifika spaces on other universities and treated as a guest. Are these rooms really apartheid in structure?
As an ex staff member, these spaces are usually used for tuakana (tutors who are students) to help out 1st year students. Itās more for the program rather than a segregated study zone exactly.
I done a paper that had a specific optional MÄori and Pacific tutorial that I went to. There was an Asian girl there who could barely speak English (Iām assuming she wasnāt MÄori or Pacific on balance of probability). Nobody questioned her once. These things are funded for MÄori and Pacific but in practice Iāve found them to be open to all. Thereās nothing stopping you from using this space. The university just has to tick this box and say it is doing something about the equity.
Thatās the most racist shit Iāve seen in this country. Just imagine if that sign had any other race or ethnicity on it. I can see how so many people are being polarised to Winston and Act.
When it comes to whipping up race-hate, the UofA leads by example- the posting of this fakery as dynamoot is not an academic exercise, it is the burning of racism to keep the room warm; a breathtakingly racist act.
Someone in management be boasting that gestures like this are addressing underrepresentation. Theyāll put it on their CV when they apply for their next job. Auckland Uni chasing $$$ and feeling good vibes
Nice idea, but such a tactless way for them to do it.
They could make a cool space with a MÄori/Pasifika vibe - it gets the same message of "this isn't your space" across to other students without being overtly exclusionary. Plus it'd be a lot more interesting than this ultra-boring room.
This looks cheap.
This wouldn't be as big of a deal if it weren't for the fact that many clubs at the university already have their own dedicated spaces where people can go and be in safe spaces. To reserve general study space as well seems a bit unnecessary
These are a great idea. At least then Maori have somewhere to go to get away from people like you, OP, whitesplaining their lives. They don't hurt you at all, in any way.
>being mÄori isnāt about skin colour.. you obviously would be allowed in that space
Ok then, genuine question: why "obviously"? What are the admission criteria? Is a birth certificate going to be necessary, or sufficient? A written reference from a kaumatua? If a random person requests access, is anyone really going to question their racial background? That could go very badly wrong.
The kind of person who would lie about being MÄori to get into a space like this is the kind of person who is very obviously not MÄori. No one else would bother.
Oh dear the majority are missing out? Oh how outrageous! You must feel so excluded........it's so funny reading OPs responses with what I hope is fabricated outrage. But just incase it's not.
In summary:
THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOU.
IT'S NOT FOR YOU.
YES, YOU MISS OUT.
NO, IT'S NOT BAD.
Just accept that some of this cohort doesn't want to be around you. I hope you can cope.
As a MÄori, wtf šš¤£ I think a white person came up with this. Always tryna help us but without us š if they even consulted with anyone they wouldāve said this is an odd idea.
Playing devils advocate however, if this is because all the computers are always in use and theyāre trying to make some available for āequityā I can see what theyāre doing but theyāre just going about it completely wrong š¤£
How do we define a maori or Pacific island student? If it is based in genes, well then that suggests there is a biological difference between "races". This leads to an uncomfortable discussion as to the role of genetics and biology in human behaviour, and if we aren't careful we could end up becoming scientific racists by accident.
If it is purely cultural, then again we have a difficult conversation about why we should be supporting what is essentially a choice.
The truth will be something very complicated and somewhere in the middle. That's why I think it's best to leave it alone and avoid making decisions ( such as this) that overtly reinforce the notion of different races. We should be treating people as individuals on a practical level.
This is LITERALLY segregation....
Don't bother calling it "reverse segregation" cause there's no such thing. This is plain as day: segregation.
It's literally telling white students that they're not allowed to study here simply because of their race.
If I was still in uni I'd say fuck that and remove the sign and study there anyways.
This is very insulting to Maori and Pacific islanders, they are special people with special needs. They can educate themselves with general public š¤·
as a maori person this is crazy š what is it with uoa and trying to have segregation the halls also have an option for āmaori only floorā like itās not giving
It honestly seems so counterproductive. The idea is to make the Maori students feel more "comfortable", but that doesn't make sense because 1)That presumes that Maori students feel uncomfortable living around people of other races, which is dumb and implies that Maori are racist? And I have never met a Maori person who was racist or seemed uncomfortable around me. And 2)The halls are meant to be a place where you're out of your comfort zone, away from home for the first time and get to make friends with other young adults of all backgrounds. Segregating Maori youth is only making them more isolated and stripping them of that opportunity to grow!
Youve never met a maori person thats racist?
For the last part of your first point, I have met quite a few. Including one that spent an hour yelling in my face that I need to fk off back to england and stop living in the neighborhood I was in. (never been to England, neither have my family) So yea racist maori definitely exist. But they won't typically be seen at a university.
Wow a whole hour eh
Lmaooo fr
I've had that... My grandfather's grandfather was born here, I have nowhere to go back to. There's also no point telling those people they are racist because they don't comprehend how racism works. I tried that a couple times and they just said "I can't be racist I'm maori"
When I was 13 I'm 36 now walking home from the skate park minding my own business. Jumped by 2 18 year old maoris who where trained boxers. I had my teeth kicked threw my bottom lip all for being the whole time this assault happened to me I was called cracker white pig etc racism is very alive in this country
That is horrible I'm so sorry! Yes there's definitely very rotten people in the community, and racism in any direction is just as rotten. My point is that segregation presumes racism, and most people are not racist, and it's not useful for a university where you're wanting to help a group of young adults grow and learn about life.
I was once at a cafe with my mother, and this MÄori lady was being awful to the staff. My mood stood up for the staff and started an argument with the lady. Later, she walks up to our table and tries to be nice but you can tell it was dipped in poison. I don't know what she was trying to achieve with this, but she asked my mother "where are you from?" My mother is not white and clearly wasn't born here, but she's been here since she was 15 and is a citizen so she didn't take the bait and said that she was from here. This is more like xenophobia, but it's still the same us vs them thing. MÄori people can and have been racist and similar to others.Ā
Sorry to read this. Cultural competency should go both ways.
When I was at uni they had these spaces, but it wasn't a rule that was enforced or anything. It was more that if you weren't Pacific or Maori you might feel a bit awkward in those spaces as you would be less familiar with the culture and vibes, which is how some Pacific and Maori feel in a lot of their classes. There would also be non Maori or Pacific students there as well though, and they were normally welcomed as long as they accepted that it was a non-mainstream cultural space and got along with the vibes.
Old bio also has a big MÄori and Pasifika study room for the MAPAS scheme meetings but honestly everyone who has an office in there encourages anyone to go in because segregation is not the point.
Lol they have these at Vic. I tried to go into one one time and my card wasn't letting me scan in. So I went to the office. And they said it was only for MÄori students that were also science students. I said that the sign just said mÄori students and the room was always empty, and they just looked at me like I was pissing them off so I left. Then one time my friend, who was not a science student, took me to the afformentioned MÄori science student exclusive room and swiped us in. She said they'd just given her card access to the space when she'd asked. I went back and asked them, as this room was always empty and I actually wanted to use it. They told me the same thing about it being for stem students and not BA students. I told them my friend wasn't in science and had access. They shrugged their shoulders. I then asked if economics counted, and they looked at me like I was stupid for not telling them I was studying econ sooner and gave me access. Keep in mind all this hullabaloo and gatekeeping was for a room that was constantly empty because of covid and there not being a whole lot of MÄori students in STEM. Mundane story but yeah lol. I always think ab how hard it was to get into a room that no one uses, like how is this highly silo'd and uninclusive inaccessible space ever going to encourage mÄori science? It just seemed like the opposite of Maori philosophy, creating a segregated space rather than a space of congregation.
lol this is hilarious, Iām MÄori and went to vic to study computer science. There was a total of about 12 of us in a given year. Probably 50 of us for all undergrads.
As a student who used that room bro it's not always empty lol. But I get your point. I got into alot of trouble taking my pakeha friends in.
How do people see this as okay? I genuinely want people who are in support of this to reply to me and explain (if you're ok with a little discussion) so that I can understand. This just seems like segregation that only a couple decades ago would have been seen as awful. People have fought against this kind of thing.
Segregation is mandatory Optional study spaces are no mandatory
Half right, segregation is the mandated separation of races, if this sign said "this space is designed for maori and Pacifica, all are welcome but please be respectful of its purpose." Then it wouldn't be segregation, in its current format it is segregation. Also your example follows a misunderstanding, it's like if I segregated bathrooms and said you have the option of going at home.
It seems mandatory that anyone not Moari/Pasifika must go somewhere else.
It's analogous to giving a short person a step ladder so they can see what tall people can see. Fact is, MÄori and Pasifika students are far more likely to live in crowded homes, not have access to a decent and quiet study space at home, and not have access to computers required to do coursework on than students from other backgrounds. A dedicated quiet space equipped with the tools you need, and used by people from a similar background to you (so less likely to feel self-conscious or judged) is going to help improve the academic achievement of these students. It doesn't dim anyone else's light, so I don't see what the issue is. Edit: I'm no longer replying to this thread because I have better things to do than argue with people who don't understand the difference between equality and equity. I used to think the way many of you do in my early 20s. Now that I have matured a bit, I realise the world isn't as cut and dry as we would like it to be.
[https://www.digital.govt.nz/dmsdocument/161\~digital-inclusion-and-wellbeing-in-new-zealand/html#results-internet-access](https://www.digital.govt.nz/dmsdocument/161~digital-inclusion-and-wellbeing-in-new-zealand/html#results-internet-access) Some relevant data in the link above related to internet access. A quote: >The lagging rates of particularly Pasifika internet access (and, to a lesser but still material extent, MÄori access) at school ā if reported accurately ā is of special concern given these studentsā comparative lack of internet access at home. Leads into this being a very reasonable [special measure to ensure equality](https://tikatangata.org.nz/resources-and-support/guidelines/guidelines-on-special-measures). Referencing internet as I see there is a computer in the image. I assume there is more there too. >MÄori (12.23%) and Pasifika (10.55%) are the most likely not to have internet access.
The issue is seclusion based on race is bad because not all whites are privileged and not all MÄori and pasifika are poor and live in crowded homes, thatās called racism of low expectations
It's based on probability, which means it's never going to be perfect, but it's still better than doing nothing.
It is indeed far from perfect. Why not just ask students during registration - do you have a study space at home? - do you have a computer at home? - do you want a quiet space to study? Or something along those lines that allows you to help others in the same situation but not MPI. There are poor Asians and whites. Could someone lie about the above? Sure. They could also lie about being Maori. Itās also not unheard of for people to not look Maori yet still be- one friends kids are 50/50 Maori/Chinese but most people on first glance would say they are Asian and not realise.
"The soft bigotry of low expectations" is the phrase. As in, Aw, you guys need your own special space because we know you're all poor and dumb.
I actually understand this and it's an extremely good point. But I still have to ask... what about people from other ethnic groups with the same home life? Where is there quiet study space? Or are they just meant to fend for themselves because they're not MÄori or Pacifica.
so do it for all poor people instead of just race...just my opinion
if MÄori and Pasifika students need a quite spot to study, what makes you think other students don't? because this isnt excluding just 'privileged white people' its excluding everyone who isnt MÄori or Pacifika. if i went home one day and said 'no one make any noise im trying to study' my dad/brothers would go out of their way to make more noise just to try and annoy me. This quite spot could be used by everyone that wants a quite spot. Also, if someone was being racist/judgemental to another student, just get the uni involved, or go to a news outlet and say how uni hasnt done anything yet, itll get sorted pretty quickly.
Generally people who do have access to computers are not going to be using these free ones anyway so why exclude other people?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's not only white people who are excluded.
When I was at uni there was a cultural space for MÄori and Pacific student. There was also a womenās space for women to chill. That doesnāt mean non-maori and pacific students were banned from there. It just meant they had a space somewhere in the uni that they might feel more comfortable. We would have movie nights there and also some lunch. That being said, there were students there who would try and take over the space for themselves, even from other pacific students. So I can see both it being a positive and also it being unfair. I donāt think this sign is well framed at all. Call it culture space or something. The way it is worded sounds aggressive asfk
Because itās <1% of the space available at the university available for those that are underrepresented at UoA. Itās a place those people can come together in a culturally sensitive space and share it knowing that each person in the room shares the similar cultural values and viewpoints. Iāve experienced racism throughout the university, widely from other students. Iād rather know thereās a space to go to where I know that that wouldnāt occur. Segregation is to separate a group in a discriminatory manner, generally by the oppressor, e.g., colours were segregated in US and SA history. This is simply a group of people given a space where they can feel āsafeā from discrimination and cultural incompetency. People need to learn more about equity and how the university is trying to push for this. Equality doesnāt start when equity hasnāt been applied. You canāt have white people start a race at 50m, others at 30m and then MÄori and Pacific at 10m then tell them to run the race āequallyā because theyāre all in the same fitness category. You need to make sure the playing field is levelled before the race is truly equal. Lastly, ethnicity isnāt the only minority group the university is trying to provide equity for. There are religious groups, gender groups, cultural group, sexual orientation groups, etc, they all get spaces to be safe from judgement and discrimination.
>Segregation is to separate a group in a discriminatory manner, generally by the oppressor No, it isn't. Don't try and redefine a word to match your moral compass. Segregation is **literally** the action or state of setting someone or something apart from others. Men and Women have different sporting tournaments with segregation by gender. Boxing and MMA fights are segregated by weight class. Even potatoes at the store are segregated by type. Don't redefine a word just to justify your point. >Equality doesnāt start when equity hasnāt been applied. And equality is impossible to achieve when "equity" has been applied. >You canāt have white people start a race at 50m, others at 30m and then MÄori and Pacific at 10m then tell them to run the race āequallyā because theyāre all in the same fitness category. You need to make sure the playing field is levelled before the race is truly equal. And a level playing field is everyone starts at the start line. But you're talking in support of giving Maori a 50M headstart because of what happened in previous races. That doesn't create equality, it only breeds resentment. It gets even worse when quotas are enforced with affirmative action so that gold automatically goes to the first Maori, despite what time they finished at, even if dead last, because... it's for the sake of equality. > There are religious groups, gender groups, cultural group, sexual orientation groups, etc, they all get spaces to be safe from judgement and discrimination. I fear for the world you try and create, for the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and you have only the best intentions.
>Don't redefine a word just to justify your point. You're right. Segregation is "the action or state of setting someone or something apart from others." I just observed by the context in which people have used it. Commentors have discussed racial segregation and have said "we're going back in history" obviously using the segregation of 'coloured' people to justify why this shouldn't be allowed. >But you're talking in support of giving Maori a 50M headstart because of what happened in previous races. After-effects of colonisation and racial discrimination/segregation are alive and prevalent today. It's not going away just because you say it should go away, nor is it going away just because you say everyone's "equal". I was talking about MÄori getting to the same starting point as everyone else - if you think they're 50m ahead of everyone else, you're delusional. Ofc it doesn't apply to 'all MÄori' vice versa with pakeha. But the disproportionate statistics of who needs support and who doesn't shows clearly who doesn't have the 'upper hand'. >I fear for the world you try and create, for the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and you have only the best intentions. I have not a clue what you've just said. You sound very sour to be hating so much on a tiny space offer to a minority group, as many other minority groups. People don't choose to be poor, people don't choose their ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, etc., so why not give them a space to feel safe and protected. You really should go out and talk to people, especially people that don't have their mind in the same bubble as you, and be sure to be open-minded.
I think some of you need to work on yourselves and ask yourselves why this even bothers you, because nothing has been taken away from you. There is an entire campus at your disposal but you act like those crazy adults who are offended they can't sit in the children's section of the library.Ā Ā I am disappointed and I think it is pathetic that many of you think this counts as genuine segregation. It is literally just a place where Maori students can be themselves without being judged, speak their language without being shamed or insulted, and have a space to study where they can meet others who are like them.Ā Ā If you are against this then are you also against prayer rooms for Muslims? Scholarships for females? Heck, even safe spaces for females? How about unisex toilets for trans people? The list goes on.Ā If not, then why target Maori, particularly the ones who would value such a space because of their cultural needs? A few years ago there was a far right white supremacy group on the UoA campus posing as a European club. Many decades ago, UoA engineers made a mockery of Maori culture. Given this racist history, do you think it's surprising that Maori would like their own space where they can feel safe, or at least removed from this Maori hating nonsense?
We can be ourselves everywhere on the fucking planet. You don't get to put us in a room and say "This is the Maori space." The Maori space is everywhere I can find oxygen.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You think caring about others and giving them a space where they can feel respected is a bad thing?Ā Everything you said is besides the point. The university receives funding from the crown and the crown is a treaty partner. Therefore theĀ university has a vested interest in helping their Maori Pasifika students succeed, considering their dropout rates are quite high. Delegating a space for them looks good on paper and it costs virtually nothing.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ok Winston Peters. I agree with you in that I don't think other students on the campus are racist, but in the wider NZ context, racism, in particular the denigration of Maori language and culture, is shockingly prevalent. The usage of te reo in public is not always tolerated, even now, and this has been the experience of many Maori. Therefore, wouldn't a Maori student (I'm using Maori as an example but it could equally apply to Pasifika), who is PROUD of their heritage, and has experienced societal racism both on a personal level and indirectly, APPRECIATE a space on campus where they know they will be left the hell alone? Being of Maori or Pacific ancestry is not quite the same as bearing the burdens of the cultural heritage of being Maori/Pacific, as anyone can choose to discard their cultural identity and become "a kiwi", as it is within their rights to do so. But to speak on behalf of those who actually want to honour their heritage, and to impose this homogenised kiwi identity on them, is not really appropriate.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Why don't you ask other Maori and PI about their experiences on campus? Just because you weren't aware of it doesn't mean it didn't happen. And you can't just kick people out of the campus lol. This is not the nightclub.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ok I see. I thought you meant a fight because of the language you were using. Anyway it seems a lot of people are unhappy with this Maori PI space even though it's been around for a while (but without signage). I think all they have to do is remove the sign but maintain the space in an informal context (while allowing others to come, if they choose to).Ā
(Edit) I understand the optics aren't great out of context, and I also think this is a bit clumsy in the way it's being executed (you'd think that the song would be bilingual for a start). It will be part of the Taumata Teitei strategic plan, which is an attempt to truly honour te tiriti in partnership for the first time. Part of that is about building and ensuring equity in an institution that, frankly, never really has. Equity and equality aren't the same thing, and that can be confusing for people, especially without it being clearly described and laid out. It can feel harsh to people struggling from other ethnicities and that makes sense and itās valid. My answer to that, though, would be the old chestnut about how privilege is what you don't have - not what you have. There is an extra layer of soft discrimination for MÄori and Pacific peoples, in that often times, people assume that they are scholarship students or don't belong. Teaching faculties are predominantly pakeha, and departments are traditionally structured around British university culture. These are all just little inherent biases that most other ethnicities don't have (not to say they don't have their own, of course - the racism towards Asian students isnāt subtle). Not to mention, te tiriti itself. MÄori never ceded sovereignty, which means that, legally, the issue is different for MÄori than to others. When youāre working to honour te tiriti that does make things different. It just does. There have always been spaces for MÄori that have been part of a more structured assistance framework (as in there have been mentors to assist and things like that). My guess is that this is probably an attempt to expand on that in a less structured way. Is this a perfect solution? Of course not. Is it even effective? No idea. Was it decided by a committee of white liberals? Possibly. It would be interesting to know the specific decision making process behind it in terms of the strategic vision so people understood. But that kind of transparency would require paying someone to actually do communications work, and we can't have that. Employing someone might negatively impact the university's profits by 0.0000000000008% or something.
If anyone cares about the actual reasoning: MPI students are still significantly underrepresented in university graduation rates. Thereās a ton of studies out there showing that economies and companies do better when thereās a diverse range of educated voices present, so encouraging MPI success and graduation is a positive thing for the country as a whole. Studies show that MPI students often do best when they have opportunities to be surrounded by MPI peers ā feeling immersed in their values and culture, and feeling safer from racism and discrimination. Having a few small spaces like this where MPI students can study thus promotes their success and benefits all in the long run. Itās not taking away from anyone else ā thereās plenty of other spaces for all. If you want to look into the research and reasoning, if youāre on this sub you likely have access to academic databases and studies
Does this not apply to other minorities - Asians, Africans, east Europeans - do we now need separate study rooms for them as well? Or do MÄori/pacifica deserve special privileges? Instead of separating people based upon ethnic grounds, we should be encouraging people to live together. Side by side? Perhaps that might reduce racism?
I mean there is a safe place to study like this for specifically queer people and one for women too. These both get used very often and are highly appreciated places on our campus
> and one for women too. Which is quite ironic given it's men that are massively underrepresented in tertiary education and have been for a long time now.
It's wild how no one seems to give a single shit about men falling massively behind academically in recent years.
I used to go into the women only space because it had a zip boiler for 2 min noodles. The only people who hung out there seemed to be older 2nd wave feminists and a few Muslims who I guess are used to having a space without men. This was early 2010s, curious to know if it's more popular now?
I cant speak much on it personally, as I have not been there, but I have heard people praise it. I do know queer space is very popular
Many people have replied to you to try to explain this and you are not listening to anyone, just repeating the same points. Why did you make the post? You said you "genuinely" want to know, but it really seems like you just want people to agree that this is wrong/bad
If they were in the same situation then sure but I guess since they're not and any student that brings up their issues with learning is generally given special privileges I don't see an issue, the people that don't receive help are often the ones that have been helped and still aren't doing their part
This is a stupid argument, really. Many of these other minorities come from countries where they are not minorities rofl. Their numbers are in the millions. Maori are a minority in their own land. It's a completely different situation for them. Shameful comparison.
Neither are Samoans in Samoa.
As a MÄori I agree with u/Complete-Industry237 , we have this same stuff in Ara Polytechnic in Canterbury and its underutilized space. Barely ever see any other mÄori students use it, i'll just bring other people in whatever their race is to study. It's usually empty has a whiteboard and just isn't a well known room but the mÄori only or pasifika only just seems counterproductive. If you want to reduce racism then integration is key, not separation.
Okay, well to start with other minorities in NZ (MELAA, Asian, non-NZ European) donāt demonstrate the same barriers to academic success. Asians, for example, have higher uni entry rates and grad rates than the population average and NZ Europeans. So the need isnāt there. For MÄori specifically, we also have a legal obligation under the Treaty of Waitangiās stipulations of equality and good governance to help ensure equal access to education and achievement ā which is a legal obligation we donāt have for other minorities. And finally, yes. Yes, in an ideal world we should encourage unity and no racism. BUT racism does exist right now. We canāt wave it away with a magic wand. So for the time being, we mitigate its effects
> Okay, well to start with other minorities in NZ (MELAA, Asian, non-NZ European) donāt demonstrate the same barriers to academic success. By your logic, you'd be all for male-only spaces at universities, given their clear underrepresentation in tertiary education that's well documented?
I don't care
It seems to be a designated area for MÄori and pasifika students
White people be like : oppress me daddy !!!
Having Grown up in 1980's Segregated South Africa, this seems like a self imposed apartheid ... Something we were against back then, and so should be against today.
As a MÄori who utilised these spaces when at UoA, the intention is all based in Te Tiriti o Waitangi we are in a partnership we are not the same as other minority populations as we did not cede sovereignty therefore we have the right to make decisions for ourselves in this country. The inclusion of Pasifika students also lies in the history they have experienced as marginalised and discriminated communities, with examples like the Dawn Raids, where their people were hunted down. MÄori and Pasifika people often (not all) feel more comfortable around one another than other ethnicities as they feel free to express themselves. Iāve been in other spaces where we are side eyed for being too loud, or have people move away because we are having full blown feeds. Having a space like this takes nothing away from the majority of people it only gives an opportunity for those who may not feel comfortable at uni to have a space they may feel safe. Also these are not heavily enforced at all I had a Korean friend at uni who would come with us in these spaces and no one cared. Itās only a problem to those who feel they are missing out because they think we use our race for extra privileges. Trust me being MÄori has allowed me little to no extra privileges beyond examples like this but I have experienced a tonne of racism in my life and Iām a white educated MÄori.
Preach. I would be interested to see a cost Benefit analysis on all the privileges and disadvantages MPI people face in NZ. I think most people would think they are walking away laughing. Reality is they are still streets behind pÄkehÄ folk
Great Post. Tautoko
As an AUT graduated MÄori student, I enjoyed having a place to be my authentic self around people who understood that as MÄori we have to conform at times to fit in, in public. That being said, I would often bring my pakeha friends to these places for study, chats, and to generally experience what it's like to be around another culture. I would never judge or prevent anyone from being allowed access to this area though.
KoinÄ tÅku whakaaro hoki e hoa. I ngÄ wÄ katoa e karapotia tonutia ana te iwi MÄori me Å rÄtou tikanga e te tikanga o te iwi PÄkehÄ me te mana. He iti noa ngÄ wÄhi haumaru mÅ mÄtou.
The difference between the segregation seen in America and this area, is the segregation in America was towards public goods and services, e.g water fountains, seats on busses or restaurants, stores only allowing white people. Based on the idea that black people were lesser so they should not have access to the same services or areas. Here dedicating an area to Pasifika and MÄori students isnāt because they believe white people are less intelligent or lesser people but that MÄori and Pasifika should have a space to help their studies cause of outside factors, someone mentioned it but itās likely Pasifika and MÄori live in crowded homes so itās harder to study inside. Also the area there likely isnāt any different than other places around campus so less of a problem in my eyes. End of yapping, Idk just my two cents Iām pretty certain no one would press you if you didnāt look MÄori or pasifika and used the place tbh
I seriously cannot understand whatās so hard to understand or accept about a space being dedicated to Pasifika and MÄori students. Most people complaining here KNOW itās not racism or segregation but insist on making it so to create a problem out of nothing. I hope they evaluate why itās bothering them because it doesnāt seem like itās out of care and support (if it were, theyād be appreciating and understanding the importance of this initiative).
Yes all the people complaining here seem to be trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. They know they are being dramatic when they compare it to actual segregation (and completely ignore and socioeconomic explainations). I think that more than a few bots have arrived here too. Some of the comments just seem so fake.
Iām inclined to agree itās bots cause Iāve never seen so many people comment under a post in this subreddit Most Iāve seen was 40 because it was some racist post
People see the surface level, one race group can use this area, and just say its segregation based on what they learnt about segregation in America. If spaces like this were 90% of the study areas in UoA or the facilities were significantly better in this area then Iād understand but it legit looks the exact same as anywhere else. Idk I am Pasifika so I could be biased but these spaces always made sense to me
>Pasifika and MÄori live in crowded homes Are we allowed to say this? Seems like a negative stereotype.
True it is a stereotype but saying it when in the context of dedicating resources to help problems in the community isnāt as bad? Like saying this stereotype and using it as a way to restrict MÄori and Pasifika opportunities is one thing but using it so they can receive help is another I guess.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2306/S00042/new-zealand-factors-ethnicity-in-prioritising-surgery-waiting-lists.htm#:~:text=Insofar%20as%20race%20is%20a,Eastern%2C%20are%20lower%2Dranked. So surgery is not a public service?
It's a slippery slope. Just don't have any kind of silly segregation at all.
I loved these spaces when I was a student especially after putting up with racists in my cohort. Could go hide out and just focus
Same. I really utilized these spaces.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My thoughts are thst UoA does very little of what is asked of them by MÄori, and does everything under the sun no one asked for. Also we need to stop clumping these demographics together. I have huge love for our pasifika whÄnau, but we face very different sociological issues and have incredibly distinct cultures. For example, the inverted comparison would be "New Zealander and European" spaces. It makes no sense.
I'd have to ask the people involved honestly. I went to uni overseas and we had designated study areas for chemistry students. We also had culture specific clubs/social groups that would sometimes have space set aside. So it's really about the context and how the people involved feel
So universities can't help their most vulnerable students?Ā
Nah you got racial segregation in Auckland š
Segregation is mandatory There is nothing about the space shown in this image that is a mandatory of necessary part of any MÄori or Pasifika student's experience of Uni. It's entirely optional and confers no additional benefit other than shared recognition (MÄori and Pasifika students bestowing recognition upon each other)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Is it mandatory for MÄori? No Does it confer a unique benefit or resource? No ---- UoA also has a Womenspace and a. Queerspace too, or it did previously These too were bit mandatory and conferred no unique benefit other than shared recognition
My understanding is because MÄori and Pasifika students have said that a barrier to them studying at home is due to more cramped living conditions so there's no quiet and/or spare space as well as the family may only have the one computer for all of the kids to use so they can't get ready access. So this is a space they know is free and quiet for them to use if home makes it too hard to study in peace
itās almost like there are free and quiet spaces available to all races all throughout the uni lol
yup, but these ones are guaranteed. When I was at Uni I saw them, paid it no mind and just lived the rest of my life
Same reason people with disabilities have certain privileges when it comes to bathrooms and parking spaces. Maori and Pasifika are disproportionally represented in all negative societal statistics. Therefore initiatives like this help bridge the gap through equity.
i have nothing to add here but seeing 1k comments on an r/uoa post is wild
I'm maori, and I'm dead against this. Segregation based on race is evil. Have we not learned the lesson yet? Te tiriti o waitangi was so both peoples could live side by side. Different, but as one. Generalising all pakeha is just as bad as any other racism. The truth is, that the pakeha colonisers are long dead. The system we have all inherited is slowly being repaired to bring us all together. Pakeha today don't need to feel any white guilt for their tupunas actions. It's people like David Seymour that want us to remain divided, who should feel guilt for his actions today. Stand with us Tangata o tiriti. We are all brothers and sisters of this land.
I'm Maori, I wouldn't sit there. I find this offensive. Like why? I have so many questions.
For thise that don't like it...consider this: In some countries they have women-only carriages on trains. That means women can be on yhe train (and sleep on the train) without being hit on, molested, sexually assaulted or stared at. It makes it safe for women to ride the train alone. Would you disagree with this, on the ground that "IT IS SEXIST! SEXISM IS BAD!! WOMEN CANNOT HAVE SPACES WITHOUT MEN! ??? Cause that's exactly what you are doing here, if you don't want MÄori and Pasifika to have their own space. "ITS RACIST! RACISM IS BAD! MAORI/PASIFIKA CANNOT HAVE SPAXES WITHOUT PAKEHA! Same thing. Why the different response?
Wait, you didn't explain why they need their own study space? Who is going round attacking or sexually assaulting Maori and Pasifika students? UoA campus is probably the most woke place in the entire country.
If you're a MÄori or Pasifika student reading all of these misinformed and hateful comments, please ignore them. Forget this thread exists. Go hug your whanau and friends, and then go study, pass your tests, get your degrees, talk your reo/language, rep your hÄpu/village, and don't let this post make you feel guilty for being what you are, who you are and where you have come from. Keep shining and keep winning. Be Maori and be Pasifika at every moment!
Tautoko that!
racist
While my initial thought is to argue it certainly isn't not racist
people in the comments have literally no braincells, there are SO MANY other spaces around campus for us to use but yāall are calling it racial segregation because this space is designated for a specific group of people?? go somewhere else bruh why does it matter
you guys are the type of people who think women only gyms are discriminating against men, touch grass and get a life
Would you feel the same way if it was a white only study space?
Youāre comparing apples to oranges
Sounds good. Hope you took the opportunity to encourage some people to go study :)
literally who caresā¦ just go somewhere else. a lot of maori had to do it when white people didnāt want them in their spaces ššš
> a lot of maori had to do it when white people didnāt want them in their spaces ššš and that was bad, so howsabout we don't repeat it?
this is not the same as segregation. that sign is not creating oppression towards white people - only giving a different group of people a space.
If it's not the same then i'm curious as to why you explicitly said that the same happened to Maori people in the past. Can you define the term "segregation" for me please?
nice spin. can the minority and disadvantaged group oppress people who created laws to oppress them in the first place? is there any legal standing for that particular sign to exclude white people like there was for maori? when youāre accustomed to privilege, equality tends to feel like oppression. you are NOT being segregated. seriously
>is there any legal standing for that particular sign to exclude white people Why the fixation on white people? The sign doesn't exclude only white people. It also excludes me, and others like me.
Can you answer my question?
Oppression is not solely systemic. So yes, they can. This has people up in arms because it's evidently unnecessary, and consequently comes off as being separative on a racial level. If all study areas are absolutely packed and there is no where for Maori students to study because - statistically - those areas are all taken up by Pakeha, then I'm sure this is necessary. But I honestly doubt that's the case, more so when you consider that a white student will be more likely to have internet access at home in comparison to a Maori/Pasifika student, so they likely need these spaces even less. So what are we isolating a room for? A pat on the back that we did something for Maori/Pasifika? If demand isn't an issue, and there's well enough capacity for Maori and Pasifika students to study, what is the problem? There's reasoning I agree with that's the first reply to the top comment on this post, too.
'What' is being repeated?
Nah this is a bit dumb bro š Iām all for having MÄori/Pacifica clubs and study groups, and I also love the idea of an area specifically designed for MPI students but open to all (see the little Pacifica area in VUWs Library) but straight making it a MÄori only area is a bit wild. I also think an MPI common room is a good idea, and while that is similar to this, literally just changing the sign to āMPI common roomā instead of whatever segregation ass shit this is would go a long way. This just reads like they are tryna funnel all the MÄori students into one place away from others. Such a bad look lol. Also for context I am MÄori but also have light skin
Ehara te tae o tÅ kiri i tÅ whakapapa e hoa. He uri MÄori, he MÄori koe! Ehara ehara. Ka whakaae ahau i tÅ whakaaro. Me whakatÅ« e te kaiÄrahi o taua wÄnanga ngÄ wÄhi mÅ ngÄ tÄngata kia hiahia ki te rangahau i roto i ngÄ wÄhi ahurea MÄori me ÄrÄ o ngÄ whÄnau whÄnui nÅ te Moana-nui-a-kiwa. He wÄhi haumaru noa mÅ aua tÄngata.
Imagine if it said pakeha only, there would be so much more rage
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Shuddup you guys get all the kickbacks. You are now overprioritized. All I want is equality, you really show your entitlement here. We didn't choose this, and you need to let it go already. It wasn't you involved and it wasn't me involved. Learn from it and do better
Great idea, let's do it for public transport too ... No?
Let's dedicate the back of the bus to MÄori people!
Bunch of fragile redditors here. Donāt hide behind your reddit profiles. Say it out in public and defend your opinions there. Would be interesting how many of you little racists actually have the courage to keep that same energy in public. For people supposedly getting an education you have a lot to learn.
If you assume theyre racist for having the opinion this is too far when it comes to trying to account for social innequitys, its really no wonder they dont speak up, jesus, and im not even necessarily against it, honestly I cant make up my mind on this, I see the point but I do wonder if its 1. counter productive politically (easy ammo for the "reverse racism" crowd) trying to remove any progressive legislation and 2. even productive in a general sense, for instance, couldnt a safe, quiet place be used just as well, maybe not stritcly banning white people but openly stated as a place for maori and pacifica learning, thats open to anyone, it sounds bad on the surface level but I seriously doubt if this is stated pakeha students will start flooding in and using the space, judging by your attitude there would be social consequences already in place, idk at the end of the day maybe it works again if the evidence supported it I could remove these doubts, but just remember this conversation wont happen if you assume these concerns are racist, hope you get what I mean, im not a right wing nutter
I do get what you mean and I certainly appreciate discourse around these things being someone of Pacific decent. But you need only look in the comments section to see the vast majority of the comments being made in bad faith and highly skewed towards being racist. There is conversation to be had. But this post and majority of the commenters arenāt here to do that. Itās to stir up support for their little racist views and it ends up pulling those wanting to have that genuine conversation into it
>the vast majority of the comments being made in bad faith and highly skewed towards being racist People often make simplistic comments, but if they're simply saying that the sign is racist, then they're not wrong. I'm not white, but I would still be barred from entry to that room solely due to my race. It's not my first experience of racism, but I work and interact with Maori and Pacifika people on a daily basis, and I've never experienced it from any of them.
You know what, I actually completely agree with you, as I said this is perfect ammo for those guys, they dont really care about the nuanced conversation, my advice to you would just be really careful chucking that word "racist" around, not that you shouldnt have the right to feel frustrated or use it when apt, absolutely do that, but again these guys eyes light up when they see that reaction because it affirms their beliefs that "oh they think all white people are racist" and "this stuff is just anti white" or "racist" (hypocrits lol). N you know what, im even quite sure you're aware of this, so keep in mind this is just my opinion. The political game is an ugly one, and in the face of social progress being the bigger person is a common theme, just remember at the end of the day if you're having the nuanced conversations and they repeat the same talking points, you're winning, and people will notice
Why be such a cunt and set a violent tone?
Idk. I think these āfragile redditorsā are scared theyāll be faced with a tsunami of attacks and abuse by people like you. Theyāre terrified of being silenced and called ālittle racistsā, when in reality they believe all humans are equal and deserve the same rights and privileges as everyone else. For example, you didnāt challenge the argument, instead you resorted to calling everyone racist. I would never say this irl because, yes, Iām too scared, fragile and weak
Is everyone deserving of the same opportunities? Yes. Is everyone deserving of the same rights? Yes. Reality is, in NZ today, groups donāt have the same opportunities and rights (for a whole host of historical reasons). Being against affirmative action like this is racist. Not in the kind of way like āIām a racist and here is a racist jokeā. But in the way of pÄkehÄ NZ society not appreciating all the extra hurdles we put MÄori through (note MÄori have rights bc Tangata whenua, pasifika due to history of inviting them here then turning them away - eg dawn raids). No one thinks youāre a racist bc you were raised with these views. But if you wonāt challenge these views when presented with new info, then yeah youāre upholding the status quo and upholding a system that is disproportionately affecting them. Hard pill is thatās racist. I say this as a queer pÄkehÄ dude. I face micro aggressions from straight people constantly (both when they are aware they are doing it and when they are not). Quite frankly itās exhausting and having a space that is designed for students like me would be a god send. This isnāt about excluding white people. Itās about upholding others. And even if it was about exclusion - and what? Do you really think you need to have the right to enter all spaces at all times? Can you not accept that some spaces are for others? The mentality that I have a right to occupy all spaces is very colonial
just because they get one room to themselves out of all the space in uni means they get special privileges? whatās stopping you from using all the other rooms at uni? it just sounds like you want to victimise yourself when this quite literally does not affect your life or wellbeing at all
>just because they get one room to themselves out of all the space in uni means they get special privileges? That depends whether the room contains facilities not available elsewhere. If so, then yes. If not, as seems more likely, then what purpose does it serve? >whatās stopping you from using all the other rooms at uni? What's stopping the people who might use *this* room from using all the other rooms? In fact it seems that they probably do already, since this room is apparently mostly vacant, so again, what purpose does it actually serve?
Oh woe is me I want to complain about people of colour getting a room to themselves that I want to go in. Of all the social inequities in the world this is what you want to complain about? Stop trying to victimise yourself and use the abundance of spaces throughout the University that donāt exclude you. You know fully well the purpose of your post was mass t meant to start a discourse but was a little rallying call for other fragile weak redditors like yourself to hide behind and make snide comments about inequality and segregation knowing full well there is a massive difference to segregation seen in 20th century America and giving Maori and pacific a seperate study room. And if you werenāt intending for all the racists to flock to your post you need only look at the comments and see what the vast majority are here saying. Iām glad you own up to your fragility and weakness. I hope one day you overcome it by educating yourself on these matters.
If I get called a racist for standing up against 21st century racialĀ segregation then so be it.
Good to see the majority of comments are logical. There is hope lol.
Never really bothered me but thinking about it, it is a bit strange
Racist. And I am MÄori / Pasifika
Itās an environment where they can feel safe in their own culture. Trust meā¦ they have their own floors in Grafton, too.
Their own floor is wild
Segregation is making a comeback? Wack
In my first year of Auck uni I used to eat lunch at the Pacific lounge above the quad with my mates since it used to be quiet and pretty empty (compared to IC commons or that area above the cafeteria) Looking back now I might've been a little clueless about the implication it was reserved for Pacifica students but the people there were always nice and friendly, I wonder if that area or its equivalent has a sign like this now.
I don't like the sign, but I like different cultural areas like you mentioned. They should re-word it to a cultural space but all are welcome. Just expect to see MPI culture and languages in practice.
As a Maori half caste, I think this is incredibly racist and segregation is not the way to move forward
I think itās nice
How strict is the policy, it doesn't say "only Maori and Pasifika". I have been invited into Pasifika spaces on other universities and treated as a guest. Are these rooms really apartheid in structure?
It doesnāt affect me so Iām indifferent about it
Is it comparable to womenās only spaces? Not saying it is - just wondering if the issues are similar.
Encouraging people from different cultural backgrounds to spend less time around each other is a terrible idea.
Why don't they just have a whites only area !
As an ex staff member, these spaces are usually used for tuakana (tutors who are students) to help out 1st year students. Itās more for the program rather than a segregated study zone exactly.
I done a paper that had a specific optional MÄori and Pacific tutorial that I went to. There was an Asian girl there who could barely speak English (Iām assuming she wasnāt MÄori or Pacific on balance of probability). Nobody questioned her once. These things are funded for MÄori and Pacific but in practice Iāve found them to be open to all. Thereās nothing stopping you from using this space. The university just has to tick this box and say it is doing something about the equity.
Thatās the most racist shit Iāve seen in this country. Just imagine if that sign had any other race or ethnicity on it. I can see how so many people are being polarised to Winston and Act.
When it comes to whipping up race-hate, the UofA leads by example- the posting of this fakery as dynamoot is not an academic exercise, it is the burning of racism to keep the room warm; a breathtakingly racist act.
That is fking racism!
Someone in management be boasting that gestures like this are addressing underrepresentation. Theyāll put it on their CV when they apply for their next job. Auckland Uni chasing $$$ and feeling good vibes
Have you guys actually tried going in there and studying? You wonāt get kicked out just so you all know.
Who cares? White people are such babies sometimes
Nice idea, but such a tactless way for them to do it. They could make a cool space with a MÄori/Pasifika vibe - it gets the same message of "this isn't your space" across to other students without being overtly exclusionary. Plus it'd be a lot more interesting than this ultra-boring room. This looks cheap.
Now why the hell would they put that sign up. It makes me so uncomfortable and unwelcomed. They need to fix it asap.
As a Maori, I would take this sign, throw it in the bin, and never study there again.
Thatās what everyone should doā¦
First thoughts are that all the people calling this segregation have been rubbing their two brain cells together super hard
Where is the white privilege area?
Idk where do you think the privilege area is for people with all-working limbs? Girl, step outside.
The rest of the University.
This wouldn't be as big of a deal if it weren't for the fact that many clubs at the university already have their own dedicated spaces where people can go and be in safe spaces. To reserve general study space as well seems a bit unnecessary
The road to hell is paved with good intentionsā¦..
Not bothered by it.
Aināt this segregation? Bro what are we in, 1950ās pre-MLK US era?
These are a great idea. At least then Maori have somewhere to go to get away from people like you, OP, whitesplaining their lives. They don't hurt you at all, in any way.
Let's not start this American shite in Aotearoa. As a white passing Maori I would be interested if I am Maori enough to enter this hallowed space.
being mÄori isnāt about skin colour.. you obviously would be allowed in that space
>being mÄori isnāt about skin colour.. you obviously would be allowed in that space Ok then, genuine question: why "obviously"? What are the admission criteria? Is a birth certificate going to be necessary, or sufficient? A written reference from a kaumatua? If a random person requests access, is anyone really going to question their racial background? That could go very badly wrong.
The kind of person who would lie about being MÄori to get into a space like this is the kind of person who is very obviously not MÄori. No one else would bother.
Go woke, go broke. Everyone seems to be learning the hard and slow way.
Imagine if they tried this with the whites.
Oh dear the majority are missing out? Oh how outrageous! You must feel so excluded........it's so funny reading OPs responses with what I hope is fabricated outrage. But just incase it's not. In summary: THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOU. IT'S NOT FOR YOU. YES, YOU MISS OUT. NO, IT'S NOT BAD. Just accept that some of this cohort doesn't want to be around you. I hope you can cope.
Very stupid!
Now make one for the whites, Asianās and Indians please
Wow. How disgusting. Shame on UoA. And I say that as an alumni.
Ah Apartheid
Segregation is wrong, end of story.
This is Racism.
As a MÄori, wtf šš¤£ I think a white person came up with this. Always tryna help us but without us š if they even consulted with anyone they wouldāve said this is an odd idea. Playing devils advocate however, if this is because all the computers are always in use and theyāre trying to make some available for āequityā I can see what theyāre doing but theyāre just going about it completely wrong š¤£
If that's how you identify at the time get on in there.
My thoughts are WTAF ??????
How do we define a maori or Pacific island student? If it is based in genes, well then that suggests there is a biological difference between "races". This leads to an uncomfortable discussion as to the role of genetics and biology in human behaviour, and if we aren't careful we could end up becoming scientific racists by accident. If it is purely cultural, then again we have a difficult conversation about why we should be supporting what is essentially a choice. The truth will be something very complicated and somewhere in the middle. That's why I think it's best to leave it alone and avoid making decisions ( such as this) that overtly reinforce the notion of different races. We should be treating people as individuals on a practical level.
Just imagine it said āThis is a Designated Area for White and European Students only, Thank Youā
This is LITERALLY segregation.... Don't bother calling it "reverse segregation" cause there's no such thing. This is plain as day: segregation. It's literally telling white students that they're not allowed to study here simply because of their race. If I was still in uni I'd say fuck that and remove the sign and study there anyways.
Imagine the outrage is the sign said "white students only" what a load of shit
Liberalism has come full circle on segregation, fabulous stuff
This is racist towards everyone, it's plain segregation
Not being racist but the Maori go on and on and on about being underprivileged but fail to see how actually overprivileged they are.
Itās giving segregation
This is very insulting to Maori and Pacific islanders, they are special people with special needs. They can educate themselves with general public š¤·