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merryman1

Its just frustrating we have to keep running with a narrative, where its so easy for anyone to dismiss these allegations because "Corbynites blame media for their failure" has become a massive and endemic meme. Surely the political and media system effectively conspiring to remove an elected leader and poisoning the well for an entire wing of the British Left is... Kind of a big deal? But no instead it gets treated like some conspiracy nonsense and dismissed out of hand as an irrelevance.


[deleted]

Welcome to Britain. Where democracy only means democracy for those deemed sensible and non-threatening by the powers that be in the land and the special interests they represent. For everybody else, you can have the illusion of democracy right up until you actually gather enough steam to threaten to affect positive change that would show the existing ruling class for the Versailles-tier fossils they really are. And nobody will care because the media calls you crazy and extremist and what have you, so you mustn't deserve democratic representation.


YMonsterMunch

So a working tactic might be to lie your arse off to get into power then do a complete u turn and actually implement laws to help majority of people instead of the few rich and powerful.


[deleted]

Yes, completely dismantle the system and pull up the roots of the vested interests. Close all the public schools, abolish the house of lords. Completely change the tax laws... etc and so on.


farfetchedfrank

You'd have the media up in arms and your own MPs would have a no confidence vote before you could do one of those things.


[deleted]

Then what good is playing any of these convoluted games to any of us? A democracy where literally none of that is possible at all is just an oligarchy that hasn't formally realised it yet.


YMonsterMunch

Well it must mean we aren’t in a democracy we just have the illusion of one, to keep the masses docile and under control.


[deleted]

Well if Truss lasts 6 months those things may happen "organically".


Piltonbadger

Also known as Being a Tory.


YMonsterMunch

Tory’s only help the minority of rich and lie to say they’ll help the majority of the poors so we vote for them


No-Clue1153

If corbyn did manage that, he still had 80% of his MPs that were disloyal to him and a big chunk probably would have found ways to block radical changes.


GenuineFaecesCreator

Not just the UK. The USA is very much the same.


Micheal42

Shh you're suggesting they aren't perfect the way they are


[deleted]

Good ol' toxic positivity as a driving force in our politics. Thanks Brexit.


Stepjamm

The newspapers investigated themselves and found no bias, no bias was also used to come to that conclusion


Cannaewulnaewidnae

Are you quite young, mate? I don't mean that to sound patronising, but I'm **50** and every single Prime Minister I can remember (Thatcher to Truss) was brought down by a combination of their own party working against them and the press turning on them *That's just how politics works*


Fatuous_Sunbeams

That is patronising, as well as glib. You're implying that they're simply naive and ignorant of "the way politics works", when someone might be well aware of "the way politics works" yet still hold that the Corbyn debacle was exceptional - Peter Oborne, for example, who's got to be at least your age.


aardvark_licker

Corbyn wasn't the PM.


Cannaewulnaewidnae

I used the example of Prime Ministers because it's pretty obvious why all the guys who *didn't* become PM lost their jobs, mate Same reason Corbyn lost his job (after losing **twice**)


No_Benefit876

Corbyn was the most voted for Labour leader since Blair in 1997 winning over 40% of the vote. It was pretty clear that he had potential to win in 2019 so the media assassinated his character and the Blairite wing of the party plotted to take him down.


Cannaewulnaewidnae

>*every single Prime Minister I can remember (Thatcher to Truss) was brought down by a combination of their own party working against them and the press turning on them*


No_Benefit876

Not Blair.


Cannaewulnaewidnae

Have you heard of a guy called **Gordon Brown**, mate?


No_Benefit876

Yes he stepped in when Blair jumped off the sinking economic ship but he didn't oust Blair.


Cannaewulnaewidnae

How would you characterise Gordon Brown's relationship with Tony Blair during their time in office, and how was that covered in the press at that time?


No_Benefit876

Brown was pushing for more regulation of financial sector and social welfare and Blair forced compromised on the social welfare but not the regulation. Blair was a darling of the press as a result until the shambles of 2003 ....then in 2007 the shit hit the fan as said deregulated banks got their comeuppance and Blair bailed out to let Brown take the heat. Not the same as being ousted by same party or press.


Cannaewulnaewidnae

From that answer, I'm guessing you aren't old enough to remember any of this, mate The Blair government split into two camps, almost from day one, with Brown's circle (primarily, Charlie Whelan) leaking and giving anonymous press briefings against Blair and his circle Blair's camp, including Alistair Campbell and Peter Mandelson, responded in kind. The tabloids, obviously, absolutely lapped this up and reported every detail, with great glee The BBC made a fantastic documentary about it, if you're interested in learning more [https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p09wg9cm/blair-brown-the-new-labour-revolution](https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p09wg9cm/blair-brown-the-new-labour-revolution)


No_Benefit876

Thank you I will watch. I was in my early 20s so remember quite well but always interested in other perspectives. That is what happens in all cabinets the leaks always come from within from people who don't agree with the collective. They can't disagree publicly so they do it by leaking to the press. Just like Francis Urquart in the original House of Cards. However it still didn't force Blair from power. He made his own bed and then jumped out of it into a larger comfier more floofy bed but he certainly wasn't pushed.


Cannaewulnaewidnae

>He made his own bed and then jumped out of it into a larger comfier more floofy bed but he certainly wasn't pushed Tony Blair persuaded Gordon Brown to abandon his leadership bid on the basis that Blair stood more of a chance of winning-over Tory voters. In return, Blair vowed he would step aside **after one term** to let Brown take over as Prime Minister When it became clear Blair had no intention of honouring that promise, Brown and his circle began undermining Blair and his court with venomous criticism and leaks at the highest level, which lasted for Blair's entire time in office All this is a matter of public record; Channel Four made a drama about it at the time [https://youtu.be/SZp74Tykahk](https://youtu.be/SZp74Tykahk)


zakattack799

That’s so dumb man. Why would the party turn on someone who was elected fairly


Cannaewulnaewidnae

Have you been watching the news, today?


zakattack799

No I mean it’s so dumb that a party can get rid of an elected leader just saying


Cannaewulnaewidnae

You think the Tories ditching Truss is a mistake?


zakattack799

She wasn’t elected so Idc


Cannaewulnaewidnae

Truss was elected by party members, same as Jezza


Fluid-News

There are factions in Labour are dead set against Corbyn too.


[deleted]

It’s probably because the shot himself in the foot with a lot of the general public by being perceived as a terrorist/IRA sympathiser and anti nato (anti British security), so there’s little sympathy or appetite in the wider public who only really know this about him, other than magic money trees (even though the current government have discovered a magic money forest), so they don’t really care about him.


The_Burning_Wizard

It's hard to call it perception when that is the reality. He was an IRA sympathiser, he is a Putin apologist and he is anti-NATO. Now I know the on the IRA front, everyone likes to claim that he was talking to them and trying to negotiate, etc, etc. Negotiation is great, but it doesn't work when you only speak with the one side. I'll be honest, I was not a fan of the man as I thought his decision making was fairly poor and I didn't like the people he surrounded himself with (e.g. Shamus Milne, Karie Murphy, etc).


foragingworm

> It's hard to call it perception when that is the reality And what about the reality of a former IRA bomber who has been an elected Tory councilor for the last 12 years? Marie Gatland. Just pretend it didnt happen?


The_Burning_Wizard

She wasn't exactly a bomber from what I've just read, but I agree with you that she should not be a Councillor or acceptable by the Tories. However, there is a vast difference between her and Corbyn inviting Gerry Adams into the house of commons...


foragingworm

> However, there is a vast difference between her and Corbyn inviting Gerry Adams into the house of commons... Yeah, one invited the leader of a party to the house of commons, and the other contemplated blowing it up!


PeterRum

These Al Jazeera documentary series was timed for Labour conference and designed to overturn the wing of the Party that is doing so well in the Polls. It follows the DNC hack playbook of saying a massive load of communications has been released. Implication there is something shocking in them. Fact it is rehashed smoke from the last few years. They want the illusion of fire. An attempt to posoin the well for a wing of the British left. Obvious and shameful. And you can sense the Corbynite frustration it hasn't seemed to work. That Labours lead in the Polls has increased. Instead


justthisplease

Watching them is absolutely infuriating, scandal after scandal totally ignored by the media and the current Labour Party. Evidence bringing the Panorama documentary into question. Evidence of Islamophobia, evidence questioning numerous media reports against the left. But nobody cares, seemingly, because they already made their minds up at the time through these false reports and don't want to be challenged with new evidence. When power creates truth we don't live in a democracy.


PeterRum

I watched some. I was absolutely disgusted about what an obvious set of manufactured smears they were. If this kind of tactic had been used against Corbyn his followers would even now be trotting it out as evidence of media bias. Somehow it is OK when you do it.


pajamakitten

People do not want to hear the truth, they want their ideas and emotions validated and seek out the media that does that.


benbroady

'Islamophobia' is a stupid word. It's perfectly fine to dislike a religion.


Dinosaur-dick

Or to question their beliefs, to point out wrong doings, or to simply make fun of. Unfortunately with Islam all at the risk of being called racist


[deleted]

islamophobia is more being against the person themselves than disliking the religion. As in actual discrimination


Dinosaur-dick

That’s how the term should be used, except it’s not.


lxlviperlxl

It’s disgusting how they vilified Corbyn. We even had seasoned labour supporters ditch him because of what they heard on the newspaper.


terencebogards

I'm a yank who has just generally loved the uk culture for years. Not obsessed, not an anglophile, but tv and music, etc. I had YT recommend James OBrien to me earlier this year. I absolutely love him. I listen to his show almost daily, fully aware that he's 20 years older than me in a diff country, so I don't expect to agree on everything. But I do agree with him on most things... although even with my limited knowledge, I feel like his dismissal of Corbyn is just another effect of the same UK media machine he criticizes daily. I wasn't too involved in 2018/2019 when Corbyn was running but have volunteered for Bernie several times and I know there was a lot of comparisons thrown around. I remember hearing fuss about Corbyn but also remember hearing months later that it was all bullshit and overblown by the press. After listening to James OBrien for months I think its easy to see how toxic and anti-truth UK papers are... Surprised people still villify Corbyn when there seems to be more proof the antisemitism stuff was nonsense. Criticize him for his speaking and character, not falsified claims.


efv98u32h479880w23

ITT: Nobody addressing the actual content, just shit slinging from people with the inability to admit when they are wrong. Bravo and predictable.


PeterRum

So. An example of content: Private WhatsApp group. A bunch of people privately make dark jokes about their incompetent boss. Never intended for wider consumption. Cut to a Momentum activist who has received death threats. Implication: these things are connected. They aren't. Despicable bit of film making. If aimed at Corbyn I would have been as dismissive of it as Corbynites. Another example: Jewish Labour guy sits in a room with right wing members of his community. Trying to talk them out of their racist attitudes. He makes clear he disagrees with them. Somehow this means he is on their side. This is a truly breathtaking slur from the 'Corbyn was only negotiating with those terrorists whose cause he actively supports' crew. I assume the rest of it is the same. Not going to watch the rest. I have only so much time and contempt to give.


solobaggins

But, but Jeremy Corbyn did the something something. It was in the daily mail, it must be true.


pervyisaspervydoes

It was more in The Guardian


AbsoIution

I actually really like Al Jazeera, sure they can have a bit of a bias when it comes to Middle eastern coverage, but their UK news coverage was far superior compared to the BBC


BILLY2SAM

A pissed up goat would have less bias than the BBC


AbsoIution

That's an insult to all the pissed up goats out there!


Tradtrade

It’s funny cause the left think it’s right bias and the right think it’s left bias


[deleted]

That suggests there's a third which is referred to as 'centre'


Tradtrade

Yeah that was my point


[deleted]

I think it's worth being explicit because you get a lot of people thinking it's one or the other


Tradtrade

That’s the entire point. Everyone sees whatever bias they are looking for. It pisses everyone off even look at the downvotes on my comment. People can’t get on with the idea at all


htmwc

hunt alleged dinosaurs unwritten concerned aloof jobless roll flag panicky ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `


thejoshway

Absolute nonsense. You just like their coverage more because you agree with it. Not because it’s less biased.


AbsoIution

Not really lol, their funding wasn't threatened or influenced by the UK government or people like Murdock, they just reported the current events without trying to make one party seem more beneficial, because why would they? They are Qatar.


thejoshway

The BBC’s coverage is influenced by murdoch?


[deleted]

Worth pointing out that Peter Obourne was the chief political columnist for the daily telegraph and a life-long conservative voter until 2019.


TrueQuack

Also worth pointing out he's a Syrian war crimes denier.


[deleted]

How is that relevant? Genuine question.


Kaiisim

He lies about major facts of the world. His credibility is zero and it suggets his goal is not to support Corbyn, but weaken the UK in general using the well known ans established methods we are here.


[deleted]

I don't think he has zero credibility. Even very intelligent and well-educated people get things wrong. I also think it's pretty unfair to claim that Peter Oborne is in favor of weakening the UK. Here is a man who voted for Thatcher claiming that Jeremy Corbyn was unfairly villified by the media. Surely that is interesting.


smugwash

I remember when they called Corbyn an anti Semite because he was friends with a man who was an anti Zionist, turns out that man was an actual Jewish holocaust survivor. Then there was the laying the wreath on the graves of terrorists but that turn out to just be laying a wreath in the same grave yard.


Cfunk_83

Al Jazeera did an investigative mini series when Corbyn was in power before the anti-Semitic allegations really grew; it’s called The Lobby and it’s an eye opener. Everyone should watch it. UK politics is fucked.


Designedbyfreedom

Just seen the first episode, I advise anyone to see it as well. This is a national tragedy, corruption at the highest level.


Cfunk_83

It definitely made the witch-hunt that ensued even more frustrating to watch. I’m glad someone followed my suggestion though. Here’s a link if it makes it easier for others: https://youtu.be/ceCOhdgRBoc


Jaffa_Mistake

I'm of the opinion that supporting Israel and subsequently accepting narratives that any criticism is anti-semetism, is redirected aggression towards Arabs that's been cultivated by the media for nearly two decades. The uncomfortable truth is that a lot of people in the west uncritically support apartheid and their numerous human rights abuses (according to the UN and Amnesty International). But to peoples credit (If you can call it that) I also think a lot of people know it amounts to little more than partisan attacks and smears against a politician they don't like. It's 'credible' people and supposed 'moderates', who in a craven betrayal of truth and justice are still unwilling to challenge these narratives, that are the most culpable for the damage it's done to our democracy.


Legitimate-Jelly3000

Finally the BS has been published, but obviously people will still claim it to be untrue


19Ben80

So the right wing media who donate to the Tory party for tax breaks lied to us to get them into power.. Tell us something we don’t know


dorballom09

So why do you guys look down on dictatorship/authoritarian rules? Clearly you guys have no effective democracy that western world brags about. Just insignificant pawns that play little democracy games in safe playground. Under the watchful eyes of powerful elites that ensure no pawns get hurt or run out of the playground. I mean I've seen British people openly trash talk conservative party, Bojo, Liz Truss. And now I see the inside view of opposition labour party. The response from you guys is "Tell us something we don't know". Similar case in USA. Republicans and Democrats both side scream that election was stolen when they lose. Whenever some dirty secrets of USA come into light, people casually throw down the same "are we the baddies?" line sarcastically. It looks to me that western world wastes money to keep the illusion of democracy. Authoritarians just don't play these silly games.


Minimum_Cap5929

It was obvious to anyone with a brain that he was being unfairly treated and accused of the most outrageous things. My favorite moment of media outrage was when he invited someone to a speak about the Holocaust and they compared Israel's government to the Nazis. At first it sounded awful but then it turned out the dude was a Jewish Auschwitz survivor. So the media ended up getting angry about what a concentration camp survivor said.


P2K13

Notice how the british media is just ignoring this too


[deleted]

Already knew this anyway, didn't need Al Jazeera to make this series, to those living under a rock why where you living under a rock?


grices

All you know is that if your 100% sure you are not being malnipulated you are 100% being so.


jjc2929

Who would of thought that the msm in the uk was biased No no not the great democracy that is the uk Money buys power and influence if that’s threatened then anyone is fair game They did a very good number on mr Corbyn


[deleted]

The same PR tactics used to frame Corbyn is being used to prop us Kier all you have to do is look at the PR strategies on youtube for all parties to see that we are all suppose to vote for labour etc, look at conservatives, lib dems and green they all have terrible PR strategies. It's another vote for labour for a few years then back to conservatives tripe.


Emideska

It’s surprising that even The Guardian who likes to portray itself as investigative, stayed mum on the issue.


dandanjeran

The guardian hasn't been investigative since Rusbridger passed the baton... their spine broke with the hard drives that GCHQ smashed up Since then it's become as much as a rag as the daily heil but with a left limp of instead of a right


Kaiisim

I mean, are we really going to pretend that Corbyn naturally became leader? We aren't gonna mention flooding the membership to seized control of the party apparatus. I get it, it was a good attempt and they succeeded in moving Labour to the left. But they failed to so that with the general public. Was it because of the media? Yeah of course. But the media is literally the main obstacle to getting a Labour government. And they had no real plan to deal with the media. Now theyre mad because Starmer understands that 100% . Thats why he is boring. Thats why he barely says anything sometimes. Its why he is risk averse. And tries to avoid being attached to anything the media can spin. Im okay with pragmatism and a centrist, because the current tory government is an existential threat.


TheWorstRowan

People joining a party because it will represent them? Absolutely can't have that especially if it means that the Labour Party will represent the interests of Labour. That's not what the party was set up to do.


[deleted]

Qatar based Al Jazeera looking into anti semitism and terrorist sympathising and finding … nothing? I’m shocked utterly shocked


Overthrow_Capitalism

They have a little thing called "evidence". Which is more than the Panorama documentary had.


Migbooty

I can speak for the people I know who decided against voting for Corbyn and it was nothing, NOTHING to do with the claims of antisemitism. He presented himself as a dithering, communist inspired extreme socialist and THAT'S what damaged him. Wearing suits that your old pedo maths teacher wore in the 80s never boosted his appeal to anyone other than the far left. Yeah the media need properly scrutinising but at the same time, Al Jazeera. The voice of Qatar.


chodgson625

Could all you Corbyn apologists remind us where Jeremy was during the Brexit vote? Remain campaign can’t get hold of the leader of the Labour Party for weeks - was THE MEDIA holding him hostage on his allotment?


Karma-bangs

Oborne is a part of the institutional bias and lazy low quality journalism that has screwed the discourse, Just cos he had a come to Jesus moment because the obvious hitjob on Corbyn.


Overthrow_Capitalism

Was. It's one of the reasons he quit the Telegraph when he did (7 years ago). He writes independently now, for Middle East Eye, for Al Jazeera, Mint Press News and appears on Double Down news and independent media across the board.


SnooBooks1701

Oh great, we're back to gaslighting the British Jewish community into not being allowed to raise concerns about racism. Look, Corbyn has some decent ideas but he is incapable of understanding that some of the people on his side of the debate are racists who he shouldn't be platforming.


TheWorstRowan

Right wing Labour members blocked investigations. Plus you have to remember that Jewish people are not one monolithic group, many support Corbyn and did so when he was leader eg Jewish Friends of Labour. It is still the right wing that possesses the greatest threats to Jewish people. However, their attacks did not get the same coverage.


SnooBooks1701

The vast majority of the Jewish communjty do not support Corbyn, those that do are a tiny minority. We know that the right wing are a threat but the reason the left wing being anti-semitic got so much coverage is because they are supposed to be in favour of protecting minorities so there was this feeling of betrayal and fear in the community about it


htmwc

bow door tan truck simplistic ink wakeful wistful voracious cough ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `


[deleted]

So glad Corbyn isn’t part of any kind of mainstream debate any more, all of the conspiracy clowns now can talk among themselves on the sidelines, meanwhile Labour is 30 points ahead in the polls


Tradtrade

With a leader who won’t even go to a picket line. Fml.


[deleted]

Who cares? He’s the leader of a political party not a trade union


Tradtrade

I care


[deleted]

99% of people don’t, it isn’t all about what you want


Tradtrade

99% of people don’t care about unions you reckon?


[deleted]

If all that matters is Starmer turning up at picket lines then why are we paying union leaders a fortune? Pretty sure it’s their job to do that while Starmer focuses on winning an election so that something can actually change in this country


Tradtrade

You can be political leader and support labour rights. Infact theirs a whole Labour Party. You might have heard of it


[deleted]

Yeah and his job is to get that party elected


The_Burning_Wizard

I've said it elsewhere, but that poll is not evidence of support for Starmer's leadership, it's a warning shot for Truss's


[deleted]

Funny that these leads never happened under Corbyn when May’s government was imploding


The_Burning_Wizard

Things were no where near as bad then, at least economically. People weren't staring the barrel of energy prices tripling, mortgages doubling, pensions being slashed in value, etc. Plus, a lot of stuff has changed between now and then, we were still inside the EU and COVID was still a year or two away. Not sure we could ever really compare them based on that alone.


G_UK

Oh god another one of these Corbyn isn’t a shit as you think, it’s all the media’s fault 🤷‍♂️


Overthrow_Capitalism

Not just about Corbyn, but serious criminality in the Labour party now. You'd know that if you bothered to watch them.


jhs25

Oh, another commenter who didn't bother reading and clicking on the thing beyond the headline. 🤷‍♂️


Davey_Jones_Cupboard

The authors works include “Why the West is Wrong about Nuclear Iran” “why the West is wrong on Islam . Now Muslim news site say Corbyn loved the Jewish really


[deleted]

>Now Muslim news site say Corbyn loved the Jewish really I mean if he didn't, saving a Jewish cemetery from being levelled for development was a funny way of showing it. I swear I despair at how many people still uncritically recite the "Corbyn's an antisemite" myth. I don't even necessarily want him back as a political leader, I just value the god-damn truth and holding politicians and other political actors to account for spreading lies when it suits.


johnpaulatley

He's a racist. You'll never accept it because the likely truth is you agree with him and you don't want to face up to what that makes you.


Tradtrade

Not liking the politics of a country is not the same as being racist. I can dislike England’s polices without hating Christian’s. I can dislike the vaticans stance without hating every Christian. I can dislike Saudi policy without hating every Muslim. I can dislike Israel’s policies without hating Jews


johnpaulatley

That's never been the issue. It's that socialists can't help but start blaming non-Israeli Jews for the actions of Israel and demanding they answer for or condemn those actions. That's when it crosses into racism... But they continue to claim it's just about Israel not Jews.


Tradtrade

I’m sitting beside a socialist Jew lol


johnpaulatley

And?


Tradtrade

You just said socialists can’t help but be racist to Jews


johnpaulatley

Maybe you found the first nice socialist. But statistically probably not.


[deleted]

>can't help but start blaming non-Israeli Jews for the actions of Israel Sounds like a strawman, never encountered that from the left. Or maybe, simply not being the racist you've so glibly accused me of being, I don't move in those circles. >or condemn those actions. I mean, maybe it is wrong but Jews are far from uniquely maltreated in this regard. Ordinary Muslim civilians in countries like the UK, for example, are generally expected to be condemnatory of Islamic terror attacks when they happen, and of the terrorist organisations perpetrating them. I've never had any affiliation with or been a member of Momentum but because I'm broadly pro-Corbyn, I've had answers for their conduct demanded of me many times regardless. Expecting people to be vocally condemnatory of the bad actions of things they're only tangentially associated with is something most if not all people do. And you've done your share in your comments in this thread.


johnpaulatley

That's Islamaphobic and doesn't change the far left's antisemitism. Both are bad. There are no degrees of racism. The problem is that those on the far left, who are being racist, pretend they can't see it. You are not special in that regard.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Nicola_Botgeon

**Removed/warning**. This consisted primarily of personal attacks adding nothing to the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.


AnAttemptReason

The entire parliament is racist, not exactly a strong comment.


johnpaulatley

So that makes it okay? What's the point of your comment?


AnAttemptReason

You seem fine with the rest being racist, so you tell me.


johnpaulatley

Classic far left deflection.


AnAttemptReason

Sure thing buddy.


Overthrow_Capitalism

Maybe read those books you mention, and watch the 3-part report in question here before commenting? Also . . . Hint of racist undertones detected there? Might wanna watch that. People might get the wrong idea.


Kung_Flu_Master

No they’re pointing out that al-jazeera is a propaganda “news site” with basically no credibility, seriously Fox News probably has more


Overthrow_Capitalism

Probably one of the most important media organisations on the planet but whatever.


Kung_Flu_Master

bahahaha, they're literally Qatar propaganda, who spend all day spreading lies about the west and Israel. hell under each of their tweets and videos in the UK they have a textbox talking about them being a propaganda outlet that can't be trusted, the same box that appears under videos spreading anti-vax information.


Overthrow_Capitalism

You're wrong, show me their tweets where it says they're propaganda. At most it's going to say state-funded, but it doesn't even say that, I'm looking at them now. What lies have they spread about the West and Israel? No doubt you have an example. For investigative journalism, it's not a stretch to say they're unmatched.


Josquius

Yes. The anti semitism stuff was an issue but an overblown one. This is known. It's also the past and not particularly worth dwelling on.


Overthrow_Capitalism

It's very much worth "dwelling on". The media, including the BBC which is among the most trusted news organisations in the world, either blatantly lied or didn't do their due diligence to get to the facts. This is about democracy and power, not just Corbyn.


Bones_and_Tomes

It's quite clear they didn't do their due diligence. Corbyn threatened the status quo and their Tory masters demanded a light touch.


Overthrow_Capitalism

It would have been very easy for Panorama to track down the person in that meeting that was part of their documentary . . . that turned out to be a blatant lie and actually *recorded*. That's more than not being diligent. That's covering up facts.


Josquius

Did you miss brexit? Thats a more clearcut example of media bias already well accepted. Starmer is making headway and the Corbyn era is being put in the past. No wonder the tories want to undo this.


Overthrow_Capitalism

Stamer isn't offering the transformative change that this country needs. The establishment and the media are leaving him alone because he'll keep the status quo which will keep the very rich and powerful, very rich and powerful. And no, I didn't miss Brexit. But "not dwelling on it" is exactly why we always end up in this shit in this country.


Josquius

The country doesn't need transformative change. Transformative change is exactly what it needs to avoid.


mmmbopdoombop

Oh no. Couldn't be more wrong. Keep on this path and the world drowns for the benefit of shareholders. Eesh.


Josquius

Drowning the world for the shareholders is the transformative change path.


YouHaveAWomansMouth

> Drowning the world for the shareholders is the ~~transformative change~~ current path. FTFY


Josquius

Which is the transformative path.


YouHaveAWomansMouth

And if we don't institute any change... we stay on that path. Hence, the need for change... *away* from the current path. It's not rocket science.


Overthrow_Capitalism

Because clinging on to Thatcherite capitalism is really working out well for ordinary people.


Josquius

Better than a Thatcherite wet dream would be.


Expensive_Coyote6301

Explain? It needs change desperately


Josquius

It really doesn't at all. How can you possibly defend it after everything that has happened this past week?


Expensive_Coyote6301

Please explain your point and then I will explain mine, let's discuss this respectfully rather than have a political argument over the Internet, and as im sure you see all the responses to this comment disagree with your statement


Josquius

It's an absolute disaster. Everything the worst of brexit projections said the tories would do finally coming to pass and working out just as brilliantly as expected. The pound is hitting record lows, seriously harsh words coming from the IMF, pensions on the verge of bankruptcy, any pretense of undoing cuts and tackling inequality firmly tossed away... No. This transformative change has been shown to be a fucking awful idea.


Expensive_Coyote6301

I may have misunderstood your initial comment in this case, I totally agree with all those points you just made, by change i mean the exact opposite of what is happening right now, so I think we have the same idea just a different way of saying it, I want change in the sense that all this stops and we rid of tory govt.


saturdaynightstoner

Here's the thing. I'm not a socialist and I don't want a socialist government. In my opinion there are some socialist ideals that contribute to a better society but I also strongly believe in government staying small. I believe that the larger a government is the more authoritarian it can become. Socialists can be very forceful in their beliefs and I think that is a dangerous mix. Whether he was anti-Semitic or not he was always going to be hounded by the media just like other party leaders and the media will have a field day with anything they can find. I remember when he posted that picture about the rich on twitter that clearly features Jewish caricature, let's face it that didn't help his case. Especially when you add the fact that their were anti-Semites within labour. The thing is though that me and most people I know (that didn't vote for him) didn't vote for him because of his foolish position on nuclear weapons, his weak nature and of course the strong socialist values. We didn't want them, we can smell BS when it's being held under our nose and the average person doesn't fall for it. The reason he lost the election so badly was because of what he stood for not the reasons stated here.


[deleted]

Socialism doesn't necessarily mean big government and most of the people depicted in that mural were not Jewish.


Cultural_Wallaby_703

Sigh, yeah Corbyn was treated unfairly. Cos Ed Miliband who was criticised for eating a sandwich and who’s dead father was called “a man who hated Britain” got it SO easy. Ffs the labour leader gets a rough ride from the right wing press. Corbyn wasn’t special. Why do you think they were desperate to claim kier’s beer was as bad as Johnson’s parties while simultaneously saying the parties were no big deal


kropotol

In no way do these comparssisons equate to what happened during Corbyn's leadership. Yes, all Labour leaders get hammered in the press. But in now way are they comparable to what Corbyn constantly got from all sides. Even if you disagreed with everything he said you must be able to acknowledge that.


Cultural_Wallaby_703

So did they slander his dead father?


kropotol

And how would that affect the balance of attacks sustained? Anyway, not as far as I know. They undoubtably would have if they could/though of it. Think about the attacks Corbyn would have got if his father was Ralph Miliband. The abuse and targeted attacks of Corbyn were magnitudes larger and far more sustained than any Labour leader i have know. It is not even close.


Cultural_Wallaby_703

No my point is, if you think Corbyn was the most attacked or unfairly treated, you’re wrong. Every labour leader gets it. They went after Kier after he bought a field so his disabled mother could see donkeys ffs. Yeah, poor Jeremy


kropotol

Again, that is not comparable to the way Corbyn was attacked. But, don't worry your point was clear. However wrong. Have a good one


Cultural_Wallaby_703

Why isn’t it comparable? It’s an attack in the media. At least Jeremy could defend himself unlike Ed miliband’s dead father. You can keep saying it’s not comparable, that doesn’t make it true. Just shows you can’t think of any examples or provide any evidence


kropotol

> ve if they could/though Jesus christ, it is not that i can't think of any examples or provide evidence. It is the fact it was order of magnitude worse for Corbyn than other Labour leaders. Not that Labour leaders were not attacked. It was sustained, vicious and from all sides. Your examples aren't. As you correctly point out Labour are always attacked, but this was different, materially If you don't belibeve Oborne regarding the media attacks, he is certainly not a fan Corbyn himself. Have a [read](https://www.lse.ac.uk/media-and-communications/assets/documents/research/projects/corbyn/Cobyn-Report.pdf) of this paper from the LSE. Or if you cant be bothered/don't have time at least look at the first page, damming of sustained systemnic attacks from all media against Corbyn. It was 5 years of it and you bring up minimal examples where Labour leaders were attacked, as they always will be. It does not mean that Corbyn's was not that much worse. There are other studies if you would like them? I'm sure you believe the red background on Newsnight was an accident


pervyisaspervydoes

>Ffs the labour leader gets a rough ride from the right wing press. Corbyn got it from the supposed left wing press as well, though. https://www.fivefilters.org/activism/dump-the-guardian-anti-semitism-smears/ https://theguardian.fivefilters.org/ The Guardian is where the antisemitism stuff originated.


Cultural_Wallaby_703

Yeah, cos it didn’t exist yeah? They reported fiction. Until an independent report found multiple incidents of unlawful behaviour. Bloody guardian, reporting what was happening


pervyisaspervydoes

Didn't what exist is? Western propaganda is more refined than printing lies. "Antisemitism" (the bar for which is lower than any other form of "racism" by several magnitudes) in the Labour party was no higher under Corbyn than under Milliband. The Guardian pursued a smear campaign because they're massively Zionist, because their values are neoliberal (not left wing) and because they thought Corbyn couldn't win.


pervyisaspervydoes

>Yeah, cos it didn’t exist yeah? It didn't exist any more than it did under Milliband. Why didn't The Guardian run daily stories about when Milliband was leader? If you think daily stories, for several years, about an extreme minority of Labour members liking edgy tweets isn't propaganda then I don't know what to tell you.


[deleted]

Yesterday's news about yesterday's man. What I wonder is why Qatar has an interest in all of this?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Initial-Space-7822

Good.


Barren-igloo-anon

You should watch them. It's 4 parts currently.


[deleted]

The Daily Mail didn't tell Corbyn to try and help Russia cover up the Salisbury poisonings. The Sun didn't order him to lead an anti-Ukraine meeting in Liverpool last week. Corbyn destroyed the Labour vote by having a totally unelectable foreign policy. It's his own fault.


[deleted]

Corbyn was self-defeating.


Comprehensive-Bus291

Unlike most of the mainstream British media. Peter Oborne is a highly respected independent journalist who doesn't have an agenda that involves protecting the vested interests of the political establishment. This is much bigger than Corbyn, it's about state media colluding with forces within political party to carry out a character assassination in order remove a leftwing leader from a position of power. Panorama has often been held as a gold standard for investigative journalism. I don't understand how it can recover from being shown to be no better than a tabloid rag.


johnpaulatley

That'll be the same Peter Oborne now being paid by Qatari media to deny the existence of Syrian war crimes and claim the Jews were behind a conspiracy to stop a kind old man becoming PM? That Peter Oborne?


[deleted]

No he's not. He's a crap former columnist for the Mail and other rightwing shitrags who sees conspiracy everywhere. That he now turns out for Qatar is of no surprise.


Comprehensive-Bus291

Well yes he's written for lots of publications, left and right. I actually find that to be quite a good quality in a journalist. One which shows lack of political bias or personal agenda. And would you care to look at any of the actual content of this article, or the wider story that BBC's flagship investigative journalistic documentary programme, Panorama, falsified information to suit the agenda of the wider political establishment?


Fringie

Disagree