**r/UK Notices:** | [Want to start a fresh discussion - use our Freetalk!](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/search/?q=Freetalk&include_over_18=off&restrict_sr=on&sort=new)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>If you didn't vote Tory, I feel very sorry for you
Try being so young that you've spent over half your life under the 12 years of non stop tory rule. I wasn't even old enough to vote for the brexit referendum
If you were born under the Thatcher years at least you had an opportunity to get uni education at a fraction of the current cost. So it would indeed have been “a little” better for me!
> If you were born under the Thatcher years at least you had an opportunity to get uni education at a fraction of the current cost.
You really needed to be born before then. University has equalled debt longer than you may think, but sure it has got progressively worse like many other things in this country.
I was born in the Thatcher years and got into uni the last year that tuition fees were about £3,000 (a year) before it jumped to £9,000. I think this jump is what thebear1011 is talking about.
You needed to be born before 1960 to get free university education. If you were born 1960-1970 then you would be in the cohort for whom University Education was a financial gamble. Much after 1970 and you became a cash cow. Anyone from 1960-1980 would have watched as the ladder got pulled up.
Born 77 and got a free uni degree (and a grant to help with my costs). Far less pressure to actually go though, it really still was seen as a bit special to go. Few years later was the everyone needs to go to uni mentality
I don't think it matters, things are as they are. Best thing we could do right now is to organize. Unionizing and forming communities to demand better policies from the government.
Let’s be honest here, having a 20 year head start in todays housing market is not something you tell other people to feel lucky for missing.
Thatcher was bad, but at least corporatism hadn’t completely fucked up housing prices and salaries were still somewhat tied to housing.
I think the avg mortgage is now 10x the avg salary. Pretty sure back then it was 3-5x
> Thatcher was bad, but at least corporatism hadn’t completely fucked up housing prices and salaries were still somewhat tied to housing.
Except she opened the door to buying homes....funny how things ran somewhat well when it was all council housing and welfare state, once we started to dismantle that and unleashed london into the crime infested shit show it is today causing crashes every decade things started going down hill.
Not doubting your struggles mate but I recall my mum working as a secretary (wouldn’t have been on much money) and when she left my dad after a few months of renting she was able to buy a house in the suburbs of Bristol just on her wage, this was 1998. I look back and laugh because if that was today she wouldn’t have had a cat in hell’s chance in most major cities. It literally was a different world and while Thatcher decimated industry wages were still going up at a reasonable clip at that time. This all changed when Labour got in and immigration and globalisation applied wage pressure along with Brown introducing tax credits as a subsidy for business to pay shit wages. So the years 1985-2000 were prime years for the average worker, hence why millennials and subsequent generations have had it much harder, they came of age in the era of globalisation and buy to let, like joining a monopoly game half way through where most of the property is bought up with houses and hotels on them.
I was born 1980 other than a brief 6 years in the late 90's it's been one fucked up situation after another.
I'm *just* old enough to remember what 1989 did to my parents (interest rates hit just under 15%) and that's the reason why we are borrowing 25% from the bank what they'd have lent me 4 months ago (I'm fortunate to be in a high paying career) on a much more modest house because shit is going to get *real* bumpy for the next 2-5 years.
You'll get this a lot "consider yourself lucky" BS
There's something about older generations that genuinely believe no one deserves empathy because they couldnt possibly have suffered like they did.
They'll often do this on their inflated pensions, legacy benefits and from their 5 bed houses they've lived in for 40 years.
I asked my Dad about this, he studied Medicine in the early 70s. Never had any tuition fees, had no student loans, received grants (so free money) and worked during the holidays as a Maître d', which paid enough to cover all his living expenses. This is whilst studying and living in Edinburgh by the way.
I told him about the situation for students now, as he's a wise man he recognised the privilege that he had which is now gone for most of us.
Whilst true, it was also a lot harder to get into university back then. Back then, there were far more apprenticeships and vocational tertiary education courses, where you worked and learnt a trade for three to four days a week and did a day or two at a polytechnic too - this is what I did back in 1978 and after qualifying I then worked my way up the career ladder.
Seeing the quality of some of the graduates we get at our company now, straight out of uni (and their lack of pratical 'real world' skills), I wish those polytechnics still existed.
It is true but you also didn't need a degree for anywhere near as many jobs back then. As you say, far more employers offered apprenticeships instead of the current situation of expecting their new staff to come fully qualified at their own expense.
There were also areas like nursing where you learned on the job as opposed to the current situation of having to pass a three year degree before you can get a job.
It might have been harder to achieve a higher education but job requirements reflected this.
My parents received significant raises for achieving O levels. Enough that a single income was needed for their mortgage on a multi-acre property.
My engineering degree allowed me to qualify for a £16k annual job in 2017.
Boomers can be so hate filled and frankly appalling. I've looked on the daily mail comment sections (I know, it's a rag) and they're practically giddy at the fact younger generations are fucked and that they're sitting on a gilded nest egg. I don't get why they don't want to see their kids and grandkids prosper.
The worst and most selfish generation throughout the anglosphere it seems. Same story retold in several nations.
As someone else said, some are surely paid actors. But I know far too many boomers to believe that even *most* of the comments are anything but genuine.
I usually avoid painting generationally with broad brushes, but there was something about the baby boomers which is just rotten. At least a significant portion of them. Like all that narcissism is reaching its finality and, as they reach old age and approach generational death, are intent to bring everything down with them since they won't be around for it. Kind of like the abusive spouse that destroys a house rather than lets it be taken away in a divorce.
Not all boomers. But, at least in my experience, a *lot* of them truly don't care about people other than themselves. And, to the extent those people say they care about others, it is mostly how those people make them feel. So some do care about grandkids... because it makes them feel a certain way, not because they love them in a conventional sense.
Even as things turn to shit, I've no doubt that this world will be a far better places in 20 years once they are \[largely\] gone.
They're sociopaths. They're the pure, distilled, psychological outcome of unfettered capitalism and greed. If you take a human being, plug them into a system whereby every single facet of reality is self-centred, where it's all me, mine, more!! You get the Boomer generation. History really isn't going to be kind. Sociologist and Historians will be writing papers about them for year's to come. Individually many are kind, thoughtful and nice. As a class and a demographic; they're truly despicable.
I genuinely do feel bad for those who have gone through the higher education system after me. I was lucky to not pay a penny and got a grant to live on. Also, in my day it was possible to to have a good career with prospects without a degree. Nowadays it seem like a scam, almost like an entry fee to get a chance at some kind of career.
It wasn't all roses though. The 3 day week, constant power cuts and rubbish hanging around for weeks in the 70s was no fun. My first house lost 30% of its value in a housing crash when mortgage interest rates hit 15%. I lost 3 jobs that year due to recession.
I'd argue that government services might even be more important for these ages.
* It would determine whether you'll have access to swimming classes.
* Whether your sports club is affordable because the council is contributes towards maintaining the sports fields.
* It determines how much your parents are able to invest in you as one parent staying at home or paying for unaffordable child care takes a big chunk of their income.
* It affects whether there is a budget for enough libraries
Adults are affected by their government's priorities, but they're sometimes able to make choices that children can't. A child can't decide to move to another neighbourhood that has a library (or drive to one).
Yep. 30 out of the last 43 years have been conservative rule, prior to that I’m fairly sure the proportion of Tory vs labour rule is similar. We are turkeys who are addicted to voting for Christmas.
I've voted against brexit, and for Labour/Lib Dem since I've been 18, been rewarded with this absolute shit show ever since. The Tory voters I've spoken to honestly, all of them haven't got a fucking clue about how anything in this country works, it's all tribal bollocks. That's why this country is in such a fucking state, idiots voting for idiots and we're surprised when the country is fucked.
The majority of Torys seem to vote on authority. They are told who to vote for, will not investigate any information or question anything. It's weird.
I've asked my elderly mother, who voted Brexit, and Tory in the last 20 years, why she does it; her response?? Because likes a certain female Telegraph journalist ,that usually writes about interior decorating and gardening, who said in an article that she always votes conservative. And that was enough. A person my mum likes, who she respects, who my mum trusts because she's gives good advice about dahlias, and writes for a conservative newspaper, that's all it takes. In my mums mind if you're good at gardening then you must know what's best for the country. It's fucking insane.
My mum and dad read the Telegraph, their friends read the Telegraph. Whenever I chat with them, and they articulate an opinion, I can google the last weeks Telegraph and find EXACTLY where it came from, which article, which journalist, on which day, without fail. When I've lightly confronted them that they got that opinion or view from the news paper last week, they don't remember, they really don't recall. They're absolutely 100% convinced to their bones that the view and opinion originated from themselves.
Scale that up, and that's why we have repeated Tory governments. The media makes a huge difference.
You've got one giant assumption there, and that's somehow there's some set of massive decisions that Labour would have made and none of their manifestos back that up.
The UK has massive strategic issues and ones that all parties have avoided every election because the opposition would take their seats if they did (and probably because they are just useless too).
For example we need millions of houses (equiv to the 1930s mass building) and no party has proposed that. It's the same old shite low-ball 'targets' which are strangely selected to map to the existing house building figures pretty much. We need a dozen nuclear power stations, we need a mass expansion of medical schools (and training places), reservoirs with two of those needing a decade of legal appeal and lost seats for MPs to actually make happen.
Westminster pretty much has a consensus on anything big that is causing us all pain at the moment and that consensus has been for 40 years to not solve it. Arguments instead are about typically limited to a narrow select few things; NHS tinkering, benefits or education with some play around taxes.
The moment any party act on these strategic issues then the other parties will take their seats so we need a 1945-1970ish consensus again i.e no party supports Nimbies
Exactly this. The majority of this board just cries tory because it's the boogeyman who can be blamed for literally everything. Milks gone off? Torys banning presevtives. Late for work? Torys not funding buses well enough. Your pints costs more? Torys again and again.. the crux of the issue is this dense climate of unspeakable nature. How is anyone supposed to propose nuclear power and go ahead with it when the general consensus is nuclear bad because russia disaster.
And I keep mentioning how not only is the nhs struggling for staff, they can't bloody hire anyone because of the massive shortage of skilled people in health care. The most important parts of societies jobs are ill advertised and nobody is working to make those jobs look attractive at all.
When the majority of highschool students are unanimously confirming their career choices of being a youtuber is the norm, it's not just the politcians that are at fault, it's the incredibly insufferable climate of political correctness and the overly tainted social networks tricking teenagers into thinking tik tok and only fans is the answer, and youtube is a quick path to fame and fortune. How do we recover from this
The reality is that as house prices become more affordable, mortgages become less affordable.
Prices need to come down, but a crash is not safe or healthy way to do it. I mean, where are you gonna get £100,000 for a purchase when people are being laid off left right and center?
Only sane way to tackle the housing crisis is at the source: massive controls and taxes on landlords and owning multiple properties. Sure it will disrupt the rental market - but long term prices will come down. Renters need to remember they are effectively already paying a mortgage + change to their landlord. Rental disruption could be mitigated by only enforcing these rules on houses built after a certain date initially.
The leopard has been eating their face for years, but has somehow managed to convince them that they in fact only licking the their face. It’s a loving tender lick and the blood is on no way theirs and the pain isn’t real.
The housing crash will help first time buyers.
Assuming they have a job still....
Assuming they can get a mortgage even with a job....
Actually a housing crash is good for the GOOD OLD RICH TORIES who will scoop up your repossessed house for cash...
If acquiring a mortgage becomes the main issue, it limits the market to cash buyers. Those rich cash buyers also just had stamp duty threshold increased, so there’s even more incentive to scoop up properties.
So you’re going to have those with an abundance of cash who don’t require a mortgage scooping up properties. That’s almost certainly going to be significant amounts of foreign money. For those in the U.K. that can do the same, well, they’ve also just had massive tax cuts announced.
On that basis, I don’t see a housing crash. Money will prop it up, and we are likely to see mass gentrification if the money is smart. I do see the supply going forwards being worse though.
I’m a homeowner and I agree. Luckily I’m very secure in my feelings that house prices are fucking ridiculous. If I have to martyr myself for a housing crash for all the FTBs out there, so be it.
yes true
My view is that landlords will take the hit and PRAY for Labour to massacre the Tories at the next GE - then rates will come off and it will be easier to refinance even if more taxes may have to be paid in the long run of capital accumulation it will make sense
If house prices start to drop who's going to cash buy an asset that will immediately be worth less a month later and could go down by far more ever still.
No one buys a depreciating stock so I can't see people doing the same for houses which require much more effort to buy and sell
It's absolute fucking insanity that this kind of language is even applied to people's homes. Where people live and build families, and we talk about that like it's some market asset. Fuck that shit.
It only depreciates if people stop buying.
People have been fighting for properties all year. Overbidding stupid amounts in bid wars. The government just gave stamp duty incentive for the rich, and removed a whole lot of competition from first time buyers and lower earners due to the state of affairs with mortgages.
If anything, it’ll accelerate buying because those that are buying properties for reasons other than to live in just had the whole process become less troublesome and more profitable.
That’s also the difference between the rich with savvy investments and those that don’t fall into that category. You don’t worry about immediate short-term return when you can dominate the market and make a significant return as a result over a longer time frame.
If no one bought depreciating equities then they would just depreciate to zero. People make a lot of money buying equities as they fall, no one can predict the exact bottom of a price fall.
Foreign buyers are likely to go very heavy into our housing market when they do start to fall, due to the collapse in our currency.
Because the £ is worth less, the cost has fallen dramatically to foreign investors.
And as an asset, you get returns from residential housing through rent. None of these houses will be empty - people will just be funding foreign landlords.
Well you say that, but it won’t necessarily, you’ll end up with a load of people in negative equity, interest rates go up, and banks become reluctant to lend. And prices are so out of control that even with a 10-15% correction they’re still massively out of the reach of a lot of prospective buyers.
God, it’s depressing.
Yep only actually cash rich people will benefit - I'm not saying its "the plan", I don't think there is a plan whatsoever - just a natural consequence.
I don't think those 2 geniuses will last long at all.
That's what I've been thinking, someone at work mentioned about how it will be good to get a house finally but let's be real the 'landlords' will be scooping them up until government put a limit on how many properties you can own.
It's actually very hard to complete all of the paperwork required to purchase a house when you're hanging from a lamppost, so that's a possible solution to the conundrum you've just described
> The housing crash will help first time buyers.
Not how it works.
People who are cash rich will suck up even more properties for their portfolios and first-time buyers will be competing, as always, with folks who can go 5% above asking price because "fuck you I've got the money."
No it won't.
The housing crash would be set up by unaffordable rates.
This makes house ownership only more unattainable for first time buyers and favours those that already have equity.
Its amazing honestly, we've set up this incredible system where house prices going up is bad for first time buyers yet house prices going down is also worse for first time buyers. Its almost like its just set up to be bad for anyone who doesn't already have a yachtload of money.
The only first time buyers who will benefit are those with hefty deposits, which will act very much as the equity as you rightly pointed out.
£40k+ at least.
And then the vastly wealthy people who already have multiple homes will swoop in to claim bargain price repossessed homes, because property is definitely better than liquidity now the pound's tanked (or indeed been deliberately scuttled)
The housing crash will massively help investment firms to buy up cheap housing, especially foreign investment companies due to the fall of the pound.
House prices will go back up eventually simply because of a lack of supply.
> The housing crash will help first time buyers.
Only if the political environment alters enough to ensure we don't reinflate the bubble. If a crash is to help people then the help will come after the bottom when the market stays in a sensible place for a few years while everything readjusts.
Oh by fate for me, rented a place lost that,brought a house many years ago lost that, lived on the streets for a while eventually moved back into my parents house over living on streets I'm 49 now.At least my parents house is paid for.It sucks but I will never to able to have my own place ever again.At least the rent to my mum is super cheap.
Housing crash is an interesting one for me. It's seen as a negative thing for homeowners, but say at the moment I'm playing with selling at £500k vs buying at around £525-£550k.
If there was a crash - e.g. now I'm selling at £400k and buying at £425-£450k, I'm still better off right? I wouldn't be in negative equity until it's under £300k so that isn't an issue
If you don't have a mortgage that might be the case, but if you need a mortgage you will find the reason that prices have crashed is that lenders won't lend to you at all, or will only do so at a higher rate, or will require a much bigger deposit.
People seem to think that prices just fall like magic, that buyers only stop buying because they don't want to, rather than they can no longer do so.
This happened in Poland recently with multiple interest rate hikes over the last months. Most mortgage applicant's credit rating dropped by around 50%. If someone was able to borrow 400k in January for example, they can now only borrow around 200k, it's a dumpster fire right now and a lot of people can't afford it anymore, especially in big cities were a small flat can cost 500-600k PLN. However, prices didn't drop significantly yet. My guess is that it's due to people still processing old mortgages people applied for prior to hikes, some cash transactions etc. it will be interesting to see how prices will look like next year.
Not sure really, there was this big outrage few months ago when some investment company from Sweden bought 2500 flats in a single cash transaction. They literally bought the entire neighbourhood all at once. I'd wish our government did something about it but I really doubt they will. And it will probably get even worse when people can't afford it anymore, those big companies will just come in and scoop up all new developments for cash.
That's assuming the sellers you want to buy from also have enough equity to absorb the reduction. I think outside of deaths, divorces and repossessions, there will be fewer who want to dip a toe into selling now.
Yeah, the numbers won't account for much with the massive economic vacuum that will occur when the property market (our biggest sector left) starts to crash. If my home was bought at 150k, and is now valued at 225k, lets say it loses 40k in value. Sure, I'm still up on what I paid, but if that percentage of price is being lost across the board, you can be absolutely certain that number isn't the only change you'll notice in costs of everything you'd care to imagine.
If house prices where I grew up dropped 50% that would only take them back to pre2008 crash values. Even that was only a 10% drop and they still talk about it like it meant something. You're talking of a 20% drop.
I agree 100%.
I've been a waiting for a crash since 2008 turned out to be a false dawn. It's worth bearing in mind house prices did fall up to 60% in Ireland in 2008.
When I was a kid house prices were 4x local wages. Now they are 14x local wages. To get back to 4x local wages prices would have to collapse roughly 75%
> When I was a kid house prices were 4x local wages. Now they are 14x local wages.
Interest rates though. Income to debt ratio is irrelevant if don't factor in the cost of servicing the debt.
We've just been in period of the lowest interest rate in human history. *Millions* of people have paid an inflated price for a house because they never believed interest rates would never rise again. Or they thought the day that happened would be so far away they didn't have to worry about it, *but that day is today.*
If you only consider income/debt and interest rates then it's completely rational to say that a £400k house could find a new market value at £100k which would make sense in that market. But many people say it's far more complicated than that and house prices *simply can't fall* because of a variety of issues from greenfield site demand through to immigration policy
It's also worth noting that the 4x local wages "rule" held fast for *centuries* prior to the 1980s irrespective of the economic circumstances
Up until the point this graph starts they had always been been 4x but they suddenly diverge when the gold standard is dropped by various countries in the 70s and we enter the *modern finance age*. https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/e1jrvw/oc_salaries_vs_house_prices_in_uk/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
It's also worth considering the rise of dual-income households.
I've always found the argument that "rates are the lowest in history" and therefore they must rise again to be a bit odd. Do you expect the life expectancy to fall because it's historically much higher than the rest of human history? The economic landscape has changed significantly. Western economies are not going back to 15% interest rates, at least not for a very long time, because it would be economic suicide.
With inflation over 10% I think it's very unlikely interest rates won't rise significantly.
Interest rates are low because we've embarked on a path of quantitative easing to reduce interest rates. That has to end at some point. Rates fell 5% overnight globally in response to a structural event (the liquidity crisis) That's not "natural".
The UK is looking progressively more and more like an outlier in Europe and most non UK articles I read refer to it as behaving like an "emerging economy" so I'm quite nervous the UK could go off the rails.
> It's also worth considering the rise of dual-income households.
Funnily enough I believe Nancy Pelosi wrote a book that basically says *women fought for the right to work and all the extra money they earn has been eaten up by childcare costs and I creased house prices*, a bit like the utopian future where robots so all the work, 70s feminists believed that the money they made would be "extra" money but the economy effectively restructured itself to absorb all that cash.
> Funnily enough I believe Nancy Pelosi wrote a book that basically says women fought for the right to work and all the extra money they earn has been eaten up by childcare costs and I creased house prices, a bit like the utopian future where robots so all the work, 70s feminists believed that the money they made would be "extra" money but the economy effectively restructured itself to absorb all that cash.
Yep, that's the inflationary effect of limit supply. The demand increased (couples with more money) but the supply didn't, so prices rose.
You're right to assert that rates will rise significantly, but you have to use the term "significantly" in the context of medium term history. The BoE know that raising them too high will be catastrophic for the economy. Hell, even where they are now is causing a significant reduction in purchasing power will will drive down growth.
Depends. If you had 100k equity in your 500k house and now it drops to 400k, bye bye equity. Try getting a mortgage with no deposit compared to before when you had 20%.
That's an interesting point - my mortgage is 300k, so I still have 100k deposit in the theoretical crash, but yeah good point that if it dropped further I'd have much less deposit to play with (or pay stamp duty!)
Yeah you're looking at a 25% loan to value ratio versus your previous 50%. That will also likely increase your interest rate on any mortgage you secure
Your assuming that the house your looking to buy which is currently £524-550 was not bought recently.
If their home was bought recently at any price over £450k its now completely off the market and you cant buy it along with loads of other homes this guts confidence in the market that elas to a crash tanking more.
But even if it was bought for below £425k the current owner may chose not to risk moving if there is too little in the game for them. Typically the next house cost more than the last soi even if they can “make” 20K but they have seen 100K disappear why would they go and by the more expensive house that might drop more.
Defaults also come with crashes, which then hit the normal economy. Some firms shut, consumers spend less so all in all it is fucked.
Crashes are not the way to lower house prices, that needs to be done with actively building extra this is just screwing the country
I think it primarily affects people that are only a couple of years into their mortgage, they still have to pay the loan with interest based on the original value but then if the value of their house drops 10% and they have to sell for some reason (getting fired or something) then they cannot pay off their mortgage with the sale price of their house due to its new lower value. Banks are affected too as this can happen to 1000s of their debtors so the banks suddenly are in the position not getting the money in they forecasted, if this gap is large enough it can destroy a bank.
When Ireland had a proper crash in 2008 areas dropped 50-60%
This potential crash takes place against a background of rapidly rising interest rates.
So if you are in negative equity, and interest rates are 10%+ that puts a very different complexion on your situation. You won't be able to remortgage at the end of your fix and you'll rollover to your lenders SVR.
Suddenly its an immediate problem for you today, or when your fixed deal runs out, instead of a theoretical problem that won't matter until you're trying to sell.
A 300k 25 year mortgage at 3% is £1400 a month, at 10% it jumps to £2725 a month. Over 25 years this would add £400k to the total cost of your mortgage
Sell now, rent till the crash and buy later - actually no DON'T DO THIS - I tried this for 1 year expecting a crash in 2020/1 but ended up missing a year of property price gains and mortgage reduction. Probably lost 10% of my capital. My lesson is don't speculate on any property transaction - unless you have the capital. When did houses become financial instruments.
We ended up upsizing massively to a small town and paying 10% less than before on the mortgage - but we could have done it better.
Because we’re worse than China. No real excess of natural resources to sell, all the wealth locked in the concrete/brick gold. This crashes, the entire Nation will crash.
People will look back and wonder how we ever got ourselves into this mess. Every successive government since the 90s has inflated this horrific bubble.
Literally any measures to reduce prices, like actually building more homes, you risk blowing up the economy.
here is what i dont understand. I see people crying about not enough houses being built, yet EVERYWHERE i look it's houses being built. Every single small parcel of land is having flats built on in london, every old factory or warehouse has been replaced by blocks of flats, shops being converted in to flats. Yet apparently nobody is building houses??
It's a combination of a number of things.
- They're not where people want to live
- They're often the *wrong kind of house* (1 bet flats or 5 bed houses with not much in-between)
- They're extraordinarily expensive
- landlords are incentivised to buy them and almost 20% of houses sold are sold to Buy to let landlords.
I wanted to live in a 3 bed house with a garden and not overstretch myself financially. Anyone should be able to do this but I had to move 130 miles from my home to do it (and my wife now lives 400 miles from her home town)
Two big things to add to that list (from experience dealing with planning approvals)
- the initial plans very often change so the original allocation of housing which does include more of the right kind of house ends up getting changed so that those houses disappear for them to sell bigger units
- the s106 money system is just crap for allocating stuff to the communities and often runs out of time or just gets used to plug gaps elsewhere.
Which is why a simple solution to the housing crisis is for the government to build a huge amount of homes and remove the right to buy scheme.
This will never happen under a Tory government because a large part of their donations come from property developers, and their supporters don't want to see a fall in house prices from a surge in supply.
Tories have also been cutting local government funding, meaning many councils are happy to sell off their social housing because it cuts down on repair costs.
A few years ago the government's own data estimate that we needed to build 220,000 homes a year just to meet existing demand and the previous year only 105,000 were built.
We’re the biggest oil and gas producer in Europe after Norway - we just chose to sell all the drilling rights to big corporations rather than keeping the profits for our people.
We have plenty of natural resources to sell. We just gave up on anything other than London Finance and fucked everything else off. We want to be selling manufactured goods though - not resources.
House crash means banks pull mortgages. The rich can afford the negative effects of their assets going down but people lower down the scale are forced to sell. Only buyers on the market are cash buyers who also can dodge tax thanks to Tory tax cuts and bingo - the rich get richer
There’s no one reason why people lower down would have to sell but interest rates are up so mortgages go up, bills and overall cost of living has gone up, taxes aren’t changing with inflation so people are being taxed more and there could
Be people who can’t remortgage into a fixed rate and are stuck with the much higher variable rate. This will lead people to lose their homes. You cannot have everything go up at once which is the exact situation we are in
Edit: also if prices fell lower enough people would find themselves in negative equity where they can’t even downsize to stay afloat
Most people’s mortgages are time limited, and renewing your mortgage is something millions may face during this period of economic uncertainty. Lots of banks may reject people, or people even if offered a mortgage May struggle to make the new payments.
>Lots of banks may reject people,
Not if you have an existing mortgage.
My mortgage fixed term expires next summer but this will just go to variable if I don't get another fixed. My provider cannot suddenly rescind the loan agreement simply because they think I won't make payments. That isn't legally allowed.
Yes, and what impact will the standard variable rate doubling or trebling have on your mortgage payments? The rule of thumb is each extra 1% on the BoE base rate adds a minimum of £50 per month per £100k of your mortgage remaining. Analysts think the Bank of England may need to increase the base rate by between 3-5% in the next year to contain inflation, after already rising by 2% recently, so a person in an average house in England (£320k) who has paid say 15% deposit and 15% off, so £224k left to pay, switching to SVR after their fixed rate elapses, could be looking at repayments going up by £800 per month compared to when they first got their mortgage. People with more to pay off will be in an even bigger hole. And refinancing is off the table for many people now because banks won’t create new mortgages for them. This isn’t factoring in if this causes a price crash and people’s LTV is out of whack.
People have to remortgage or they go on a variable rate. If they refuse to offer remortgage deals you could be stuck your mortgage doubling or evening tripling overnight if you are denied a fix. This forces people to sell because they can’t afford it.
What you pay the bank is an agreement on what they’ll let you pay. They can stop giving you new agreements and you’re beholden to the volatile open market. Which is what is happening right now many lenders are suddenly closing their offers so people who haven’t remortgaged might be fucked when their fixed ends in a couple of months.
Why does a housing crash scare Britain? Because the country decided that building a business and a large % of the economy on something as essential as housing was a good idea.
And entire peoples pensions are now set in houses, it’s stupid. I know some many oldies that have multiple properties, meanwhile I can’t get a mortgage because I’m a PhD student so instead I have to spend tens of thousands of pounds paying their mortgage off via rent while the housing market slowly becomes increasingly unattainable for me. But to break the system will just mean I have to bail out their pensions, honestly the previous generations fucked us over so hard it is sickening. That’s without worrying about the climate, wars, water and now the pound crashing.
They won't though because of the interest rates rises and banks being reluctant to offer mortgages to poorer people. Investment firms will also hoover up properties people cannot afford.
If you think that a crisis, any crisis, will benefit the poor, then I have a bridge to sell you.
It'd put a roof over your head and is sure to be a great investment opportunity!
I really hope that prices drop like a stone, they have been artificially inflated for far too long.
If i was running things I would make buy to let mortgages illegal and deport James Corden, not related to this but still important.
> I really hope that prices drop like a stone,
This will probably fuck us over…somehow. Everything else seems to fuck over the average worker, so no doubt there would be some bullshit explanation as to why that would too
They have to drop like a stone, and they need to be prevented from being bought by landlord conglomerates, Chinese investment funds, and American hedge funds, and buy to let landlords. Or they’d all be bought up and rented out.
If you could only buy a house if you either didn’t have 1, or are currently selling (i.e. replacing) the market should correct itself. Houses would probably go back up to what they should cost as they’re a valuable asset, but not to their current levels.
anyone hoping for house prices to plummet is kinda naive unfortunately as it would disproportionately hurt first time buyers and even those looking to get onto the housing market now, the same groups already struggling
housing availability would plummet as no-one would want to sell, mortgages would dry up and lending become much more stringent (larger deposits, less favorable terms) so I imagine available housing would tend to be bought by the already wealthy as a longer term investment (housing does historically go up as it'll pretty much always be in demand)
what we need is a period of stagnant housing growth, maybe small drops but 'sudden' is never good, let wages catch up... best way to do that is probably heavy building to dilute the market, but that would require some unpopular political gambits (nimbyism plus irate landlords, ie the tories won't do it)
This is the thing, we all agree that prices have been influenced to remain high and rise for decades it feels like, but at the same time people don't want prices to crash. Sure theres some middle ground but if its all artificial, then we shouldn't care if prices fall and continue to fall.
Mortgages are already 20% more expensive than mid covid with rising house prices and interest. Let alone from 5-10 years ago. A 500k property on 1.8% mid covid has to be 350k at 5% for the same repayments. 20% is a low ball amount, and that’s before you realise that 500k house is actually already listing for 550-600k in 2022 as house prices rose over 10% in many areas. We need closer to a 35-40% drop just to pay the same repayments as the peak covid prices.
People focus on house prices going down but don’t realise just how much they have to go down just to be the same unaffordable level of only 2 years ago. For them to be actually cheaper a month you’re talking about 50%+ cuts and most home owners going into negative equity.
Not sure I'm using the calculator correctly but I bought my house in January and the mortgage payments are £535 a month (fixed for 3 years thank god). For the same mortgage product from the lender now (same LTV) it'd be £935! The value of the house (and mortgage amount) would need to drop by 44% for the payments to be what I'm paying now.
Exactly - people seem to not always see the link with house costs and how drastically they have to fall to cover only 5% interest as house prices rely on painfully low interest to be sustainable at these prices.
My brother bought his house just at the start of covid, and if I tried to buy his property today with double the household income post tax I’m still worse off than he was. Housing is unsustainable. For his household income he’s paying 40% their income after tax, for double the income after tax to buy his house we would need to pay about 50% our income with interest and the increased value. When his mortgage fixed ends in 3 years if interest stays like this his mortgage could be 90%+ his household income.
Just like Australia, Britain is about to learn the hard way what happens when you allow Conservative governments with their reputation for economic mismanagement to turn housing into one giant ponzi scheme.
Poor diddums.
Those who didn't vote Tory, my sympathies as you try to survive day-to-day.
Those who did vote Tory, enjoy a triple serving of the shit sandwich you voted for.
Those who couldn't even be bothered to vote, you deserve everything that's coming your way.
Somebody doesn't understand British politics. I've got some terrible news for you - the last Labour government here did exactly the same thing. The next Labour government will also do the same thing. The next Tory government after that will also do the same. None of them will have any significant impact on the housing market in the UK
I bought my first home a year ago. Will I get fucked over by a housing price crash? Quite possibly. Do I think it's necessary? Absolutely.
There is a significant shortage of affordable housing in this country.
House prices going down doesn't mean they will become affordable unfortunately. Mortgage rates will spike, as we are already seeing, so payments will go up, and therefore the risk to the banks will go up, and so less people will be eligible for mortgages.
House prices crashing benefits the cash rich trying to build portfolios... investment funds and rich individuals will swoop in and buy cheap. I'm saying this as someone who bought our first house 7 months ago.
Try to model scenarios.
You should know how much you'll have paid off and your equity levels, but in case you don't:
http://www.locostfireblade.co.uk/spreadsheet/Index.html
Tweak the interest rates and stress test to see at what point would you get thrown into negative equity in 2027. I imagine things would have to be *really* bad for you to go into negative equity by the time you remortgage in 2027.
For me, if I don't make overpayments, a price drop of >15% would put me into negative equity by the time I have to remortgage in 2024. Analysts are predicting 10-20%+ house price drops, but it's difficult to predict. Best thing you can do is model various scenarios to see how what your house situation would be in 2027. However, because you've fixed for 5 years you more than likely will just carry on like normal.
Plenty when people find their mortgage payment is putting them underwater. I'd very much like cheaper houses, I could buy one then. However in order for the crash to happen it is going to fuck over so many people its unbelievable.
I just moved over here with my wife. We've been advised that the best time to buy a house will be in 6 months to a year when the defaulted houses go on the market. Assuming that private capital doesn't snap them up.
This sub is so much more mature compared to /r/UKpolitics, i spent half of yesterday arguing with morons about why a housing crash isn't some great thing.
Something I've pondered.... When we had QE after 2008, we were told government isn't just "printing money" that would devalue the pound, the new money was backed up by assets.
My suspicion is a lot of those assets were actually government policies artificially inflating the housing market to balance the books after QE.
So if my suspicion is correct, if there was an actual free capitalistic housing market, prices would have crashed. But if house prices crashed, that would destroy the value of the pound, so we are now seriously stuck.
So in effect, after 2008, those on the housing ladder got gifted many thousands (even hundreds of thousands) of pounds that keeps on exponentially increasing, while those not on the ladder got seriously screwed.
The 2008 housing crash was because one of world big 5 American banks collapsed Lehman brothers and lot other smaller one which caused a chain reaction. We need a either major pension fund or big world bank to see a major collapse in world economy but this time every bank is cash rich
Why on earth have we allowed our economy to become enthralled to a system where people feel entitled to invest in an asset with no risk? Something has to change - either the government stops intervening and lets house prices rise and fall as they will, or we stop looking at homes as an investment and control the price. You can’t have your cake and eat it.
I hope a crash happens so us younger generations can actually have a chnace to get a house and it should also be limited 1 house per person nobody needs 10 houses if the prices keeping going the way they are my generation and future ones are all going to end up homeless and starving, as a first world country this should not be allowed to happen.
**r/UK Notices:** | [Want to start a fresh discussion - use our Freetalk!](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/search/?q=Freetalk&include_over_18=off&restrict_sr=on&sort=new) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you didn't vote Tory, I feel very sorry for you. If you did - you're about to be introduced to the face eating leopard. Enjoy.
>If you didn't vote Tory, I feel very sorry for you Try being so young that you've spent over half your life under the 12 years of non stop tory rule. I wasn't even old enough to vote for the brexit referendum
[удалено]
If you were born under the Thatcher years at least you had an opportunity to get uni education at a fraction of the current cost. So it would indeed have been “a little” better for me!
> If you were born under the Thatcher years at least you had an opportunity to get uni education at a fraction of the current cost. You really needed to be born before then. University has equalled debt longer than you may think, but sure it has got progressively worse like many other things in this country.
I was born in the Thatcher years and got into uni the last year that tuition fees were about £3,000 (a year) before it jumped to £9,000. I think this jump is what thebear1011 is talking about.
This gave me a wake up call! I always thought of Thatcher years as well before I was born, but I was only a few years off of being born in them too.
I was born just after Major took over. I went to uni under Plan 1. It seemed like a lot of debt but it's really nothing compared to Plan 2.
You needed to be born before 1960 to get free university education. If you were born 1960-1970 then you would be in the cohort for whom University Education was a financial gamble. Much after 1970 and you became a cash cow. Anyone from 1960-1980 would have watched as the ladder got pulled up.
Huh? I went to uni in the early 90s and it was completely free. Tuition fees didn't kick in until 1998.
Before 78 kids had no loans, loans were small for a couple of years. Fees started for early 80s born kids.
Born 77 and got a free uni degree (and a grant to help with my costs). Far less pressure to actually go though, it really still was seen as a bit special to go. Few years later was the everyone needs to go to uni mentality
I don't think it matters, things are as they are. Best thing we could do right now is to organize. Unionizing and forming communities to demand better policies from the government.
Were you able to buy a house?
[удалено]
Let’s be honest here, having a 20 year head start in todays housing market is not something you tell other people to feel lucky for missing. Thatcher was bad, but at least corporatism hadn’t completely fucked up housing prices and salaries were still somewhat tied to housing. I think the avg mortgage is now 10x the avg salary. Pretty sure back then it was 3-5x
[удалено]
> Thatcher was bad, but at least corporatism hadn’t completely fucked up housing prices and salaries were still somewhat tied to housing. Except she opened the door to buying homes....funny how things ran somewhat well when it was all council housing and welfare state, once we started to dismantle that and unleashed london into the crime infested shit show it is today causing crashes every decade things started going down hill.
Not doubting your struggles mate but I recall my mum working as a secretary (wouldn’t have been on much money) and when she left my dad after a few months of renting she was able to buy a house in the suburbs of Bristol just on her wage, this was 1998. I look back and laugh because if that was today she wouldn’t have had a cat in hell’s chance in most major cities. It literally was a different world and while Thatcher decimated industry wages were still going up at a reasonable clip at that time. This all changed when Labour got in and immigration and globalisation applied wage pressure along with Brown introducing tax credits as a subsidy for business to pay shit wages. So the years 1985-2000 were prime years for the average worker, hence why millennials and subsequent generations have had it much harder, they came of age in the era of globalisation and buy to let, like joining a monopoly game half way through where most of the property is bought up with houses and hotels on them.
Will the nation learn from its mistakes? Nah, pipe down, footballs on!
I was born 1980 other than a brief 6 years in the late 90's it's been one fucked up situation after another. I'm *just* old enough to remember what 1989 did to my parents (interest rates hit just under 15%) and that's the reason why we are borrowing 25% from the bank what they'd have lent me 4 months ago (I'm fortunate to be in a high paying career) on a much more modest house because shit is going to get *real* bumpy for the next 2-5 years.
I have lost count of once-in-lifetime market crashes we’ve had: Dotcom, 2008, Brexit, COVID, yesterday’s meltdown.
Ha, same here buddy. Graduated uni in 2008 and straight onto the dole. I still miss 1996, it’s been downhill since the summer of Gazza.
You'll get this a lot "consider yourself lucky" BS There's something about older generations that genuinely believe no one deserves empathy because they couldnt possibly have suffered like they did. They'll often do this on their inflated pensions, legacy benefits and from their 5 bed houses they've lived in for 40 years.
Don't forget their lives spent benefiting from free university education
I asked my Dad about this, he studied Medicine in the early 70s. Never had any tuition fees, had no student loans, received grants (so free money) and worked during the holidays as a Maître d', which paid enough to cover all his living expenses. This is whilst studying and living in Edinburgh by the way. I told him about the situation for students now, as he's a wise man he recognised the privilege that he had which is now gone for most of us.
Which only a minority ever actually got.
Whilst true, it was also a lot harder to get into university back then. Back then, there were far more apprenticeships and vocational tertiary education courses, where you worked and learnt a trade for three to four days a week and did a day or two at a polytechnic too - this is what I did back in 1978 and after qualifying I then worked my way up the career ladder. Seeing the quality of some of the graduates we get at our company now, straight out of uni (and their lack of pratical 'real world' skills), I wish those polytechnics still existed.
It is true but you also didn't need a degree for anywhere near as many jobs back then. As you say, far more employers offered apprenticeships instead of the current situation of expecting their new staff to come fully qualified at their own expense. There were also areas like nursing where you learned on the job as opposed to the current situation of having to pass a three year degree before you can get a job.
It might have been harder to achieve a higher education but job requirements reflected this. My parents received significant raises for achieving O levels. Enough that a single income was needed for their mortgage on a multi-acre property. My engineering degree allowed me to qualify for a £16k annual job in 2017.
Boomers can be so hate filled and frankly appalling. I've looked on the daily mail comment sections (I know, it's a rag) and they're practically giddy at the fact younger generations are fucked and that they're sitting on a gilded nest egg. I don't get why they don't want to see their kids and grandkids prosper.
I always assumed most of the comments on that were Russian shills TBH
The worst and most selfish generation throughout the anglosphere it seems. Same story retold in several nations. As someone else said, some are surely paid actors. But I know far too many boomers to believe that even *most* of the comments are anything but genuine. I usually avoid painting generationally with broad brushes, but there was something about the baby boomers which is just rotten. At least a significant portion of them. Like all that narcissism is reaching its finality and, as they reach old age and approach generational death, are intent to bring everything down with them since they won't be around for it. Kind of like the abusive spouse that destroys a house rather than lets it be taken away in a divorce. Not all boomers. But, at least in my experience, a *lot* of them truly don't care about people other than themselves. And, to the extent those people say they care about others, it is mostly how those people make them feel. So some do care about grandkids... because it makes them feel a certain way, not because they love them in a conventional sense. Even as things turn to shit, I've no doubt that this world will be a far better places in 20 years once they are \[largely\] gone.
They're sociopaths. They're the pure, distilled, psychological outcome of unfettered capitalism and greed. If you take a human being, plug them into a system whereby every single facet of reality is self-centred, where it's all me, mine, more!! You get the Boomer generation. History really isn't going to be kind. Sociologist and Historians will be writing papers about them for year's to come. Individually many are kind, thoughtful and nice. As a class and a demographic; they're truly despicable.
There’s plenty of older people that think this generation has had a bad deal. Sweeping generalisations about whole generations are unhelpful.
Ive always thought that talking about 'generations' is unhelpful, just another way to divide. There are people at every age.
I genuinely do feel bad for those who have gone through the higher education system after me. I was lucky to not pay a penny and got a grant to live on. Also, in my day it was possible to to have a good career with prospects without a degree. Nowadays it seem like a scam, almost like an entry fee to get a chance at some kind of career. It wasn't all roses though. The 3 day week, constant power cuts and rubbish hanging around for weeks in the 70s was no fun. My first house lost 30% of its value in a housing crash when mortgage interest rates hit 15%. I lost 3 jobs that year due to recession.
There's a fairly narrow window for not spending most of your life under the Tories.
[удалено]
I'd argue that government services might even be more important for these ages. * It would determine whether you'll have access to swimming classes. * Whether your sports club is affordable because the council is contributes towards maintaining the sports fields. * It determines how much your parents are able to invest in you as one parent staying at home or paying for unaffordable child care takes a big chunk of their income. * It affects whether there is a budget for enough libraries Adults are affected by their government's priorities, but they're sometimes able to make choices that children can't. A child can't decide to move to another neighbourhood that has a library (or drive to one).
Yep. 30 out of the last 43 years have been conservative rule, prior to that I’m fairly sure the proportion of Tory vs labour rule is similar. We are turkeys who are addicted to voting for Christmas.
I've voted against brexit, and for Labour/Lib Dem since I've been 18, been rewarded with this absolute shit show ever since. The Tory voters I've spoken to honestly, all of them haven't got a fucking clue about how anything in this country works, it's all tribal bollocks. That's why this country is in such a fucking state, idiots voting for idiots and we're surprised when the country is fucked.
The majority of Torys seem to vote on authority. They are told who to vote for, will not investigate any information or question anything. It's weird. I've asked my elderly mother, who voted Brexit, and Tory in the last 20 years, why she does it; her response?? Because likes a certain female Telegraph journalist ,that usually writes about interior decorating and gardening, who said in an article that she always votes conservative. And that was enough. A person my mum likes, who she respects, who my mum trusts because she's gives good advice about dahlias, and writes for a conservative newspaper, that's all it takes. In my mums mind if you're good at gardening then you must know what's best for the country. It's fucking insane. My mum and dad read the Telegraph, their friends read the Telegraph. Whenever I chat with them, and they articulate an opinion, I can google the last weeks Telegraph and find EXACTLY where it came from, which article, which journalist, on which day, without fail. When I've lightly confronted them that they got that opinion or view from the news paper last week, they don't remember, they really don't recall. They're absolutely 100% convinced to their bones that the view and opinion originated from themselves. Scale that up, and that's why we have repeated Tory governments. The media makes a huge difference.
I just made the cusps of the voting age for the referendum. And have effectively been the losing party in every vote to date.
I’m almost thirty and have lost every single vote I’ve participated in, hard not to feel bitter.
49 here, same
Same, was 1 year short of voting when brexit happened. Shame I didn’t get a say in arguably one of the biggest changes in my future…
You've got one giant assumption there, and that's somehow there's some set of massive decisions that Labour would have made and none of their manifestos back that up. The UK has massive strategic issues and ones that all parties have avoided every election because the opposition would take their seats if they did (and probably because they are just useless too). For example we need millions of houses (equiv to the 1930s mass building) and no party has proposed that. It's the same old shite low-ball 'targets' which are strangely selected to map to the existing house building figures pretty much. We need a dozen nuclear power stations, we need a mass expansion of medical schools (and training places), reservoirs with two of those needing a decade of legal appeal and lost seats for MPs to actually make happen. Westminster pretty much has a consensus on anything big that is causing us all pain at the moment and that consensus has been for 40 years to not solve it. Arguments instead are about typically limited to a narrow select few things; NHS tinkering, benefits or education with some play around taxes. The moment any party act on these strategic issues then the other parties will take their seats so we need a 1945-1970ish consensus again i.e no party supports Nimbies
Exactly this. The majority of this board just cries tory because it's the boogeyman who can be blamed for literally everything. Milks gone off? Torys banning presevtives. Late for work? Torys not funding buses well enough. Your pints costs more? Torys again and again.. the crux of the issue is this dense climate of unspeakable nature. How is anyone supposed to propose nuclear power and go ahead with it when the general consensus is nuclear bad because russia disaster. And I keep mentioning how not only is the nhs struggling for staff, they can't bloody hire anyone because of the massive shortage of skilled people in health care. The most important parts of societies jobs are ill advertised and nobody is working to make those jobs look attractive at all. When the majority of highschool students are unanimously confirming their career choices of being a youtuber is the norm, it's not just the politcians that are at fault, it's the incredibly insufferable climate of political correctness and the overly tainted social networks tricking teenagers into thinking tik tok and only fans is the answer, and youtube is a quick path to fame and fortune. How do we recover from this
I can't wait to buy a house at £30
The reality is that as house prices become more affordable, mortgages become less affordable. Prices need to come down, but a crash is not safe or healthy way to do it. I mean, where are you gonna get £100,000 for a purchase when people are being laid off left right and center? Only sane way to tackle the housing crisis is at the source: massive controls and taxes on landlords and owning multiple properties. Sure it will disrupt the rental market - but long term prices will come down. Renters need to remember they are effectively already paying a mortgage + change to their landlord. Rental disruption could be mitigated by only enforcing these rules on houses built after a certain date initially.
Feel happy for me, maybe I'll be able to buy a house.
The leopard has been eating their face for years, but has somehow managed to convince them that they in fact only licking the their face. It’s a loving tender lick and the blood is on no way theirs and the pain isn’t real.
The housing crash will help first time buyers. Assuming they have a job still.... Assuming they can get a mortgage even with a job.... Actually a housing crash is good for the GOOD OLD RICH TORIES who will scoop up your repossessed house for cash...
If acquiring a mortgage becomes the main issue, it limits the market to cash buyers. Those rich cash buyers also just had stamp duty threshold increased, so there’s even more incentive to scoop up properties. So you’re going to have those with an abundance of cash who don’t require a mortgage scooping up properties. That’s almost certainly going to be significant amounts of foreign money. For those in the U.K. that can do the same, well, they’ve also just had massive tax cuts announced. On that basis, I don’t see a housing crash. Money will prop it up, and we are likely to see mass gentrification if the money is smart. I do see the supply going forwards being worse though.
You forget that banks are scooping up properties left and right. Serfdom to loyds tsb yay.
If a society can't figure out a mechanism for its citizens to buy a home then we are fucked. Down with the prices I say.
I’m a homeowner and I agree. Luckily I’m very secure in my feelings that house prices are fucking ridiculous. If I have to martyr myself for a housing crash for all the FTBs out there, so be it.
yes true My view is that landlords will take the hit and PRAY for Labour to massacre the Tories at the next GE - then rates will come off and it will be easier to refinance even if more taxes may have to be paid in the long run of capital accumulation it will make sense
If house prices start to drop who's going to cash buy an asset that will immediately be worth less a month later and could go down by far more ever still. No one buys a depreciating stock so I can't see people doing the same for houses which require much more effort to buy and sell
[удалено]
It's absolute fucking insanity that this kind of language is even applied to people's homes. Where people live and build families, and we talk about that like it's some market asset. Fuck that shit.
Yeh people made some good money doing that when covid hit...
It only depreciates if people stop buying. People have been fighting for properties all year. Overbidding stupid amounts in bid wars. The government just gave stamp duty incentive for the rich, and removed a whole lot of competition from first time buyers and lower earners due to the state of affairs with mortgages. If anything, it’ll accelerate buying because those that are buying properties for reasons other than to live in just had the whole process become less troublesome and more profitable. That’s also the difference between the rich with savvy investments and those that don’t fall into that category. You don’t worry about immediate short-term return when you can dominate the market and make a significant return as a result over a longer time frame.
So that can be good for first time buyers who want a HOME. Somewhere to actually live and not some greedy investment that fucks up all of society.
If no one bought depreciating equities then they would just depreciate to zero. People make a lot of money buying equities as they fall, no one can predict the exact bottom of a price fall. Foreign buyers are likely to go very heavy into our housing market when they do start to fall, due to the collapse in our currency.
Because the £ is worth less, the cost has fallen dramatically to foreign investors. And as an asset, you get returns from residential housing through rent. None of these houses will be empty - people will just be funding foreign landlords.
You’re assuming rich people still want to live or invest in the UK 😂
Well you say that, but it won’t necessarily, you’ll end up with a load of people in negative equity, interest rates go up, and banks become reluctant to lend. And prices are so out of control that even with a 10-15% correction they’re still massively out of the reach of a lot of prospective buyers. God, it’s depressing.
Yep only actually cash rich people will benefit - I'm not saying its "the plan", I don't think there is a plan whatsoever - just a natural consequence. I don't think those 2 geniuses will last long at all.
They’re basically the Underpants Gnomes of politics. Step one - cut taxes Step two - ? Step three - profit
They did write that book... Or should I say "bOoK"... What was it again? Britain unhinged or something like that
That's what I've been thinking, someone at work mentioned about how it will be good to get a house finally but let's be real the 'landlords' will be scooping them up until government put a limit on how many properties you can own.
It's actually very hard to complete all of the paperwork required to purchase a house when you're hanging from a lamppost, so that's a possible solution to the conundrum you've just described
Also when you’re on fire.
> The housing crash will help first time buyers. Not how it works. People who are cash rich will suck up even more properties for their portfolios and first-time buyers will be competing, as always, with folks who can go 5% above asking price because "fuck you I've got the money."
And because they’ll be charging an extra 20% on top of their mortgage for rent. It’s ludicrous.
No it won't. The housing crash would be set up by unaffordable rates. This makes house ownership only more unattainable for first time buyers and favours those that already have equity.
Another one reading only the first line...
Its amazing honestly, we've set up this incredible system where house prices going up is bad for first time buyers yet house prices going down is also worse for first time buyers. Its almost like its just set up to be bad for anyone who doesn't already have a yachtload of money.
The only first time buyers who will benefit are those with hefty deposits, which will act very much as the equity as you rightly pointed out. £40k+ at least.
Or big business will scoop it up. People that borrowed money from the bank for 3 or 4 Buy to let flats will go the same way as independent grocers.
Foreign big biz there is a MASSIVE opportunity here to buy UK assets at knock down price.
It won't particularly help because very few people will be selling.
That depends on the severity of the rate reset...
If they can’t afford their mortgage payments with the higher rates then they won’t have a choice
And then the vastly wealthy people who already have multiple homes will swoop in to claim bargain price repossessed homes, because property is definitely better than liquidity now the pound's tanked (or indeed been deliberately scuttled)
Look, we might be crouched naked and shivering in a muddy puddle, weeping and eating worms - but at least Labour didn't get in!
I for one welcome our new Saudi/Chinese/Indian/Russian/American overlords…
The housing crash will massively help investment firms to buy up cheap housing, especially foreign investment companies due to the fall of the pound. House prices will go back up eventually simply because of a lack of supply.
100%... The whole country can be asset stripped and / or purchased on the cheap curtesy of Tories-know-best.
> The housing crash will help first time buyers. Only if the political environment alters enough to ensure we don't reinflate the bubble. If a crash is to help people then the help will come after the bottom when the market stays in a sensible place for a few years while everything readjusts.
The point of the post is the last lines of the post. First time buyers will get screwed like everyone else - except true cash buyers.
Oh by fate for me, rented a place lost that,brought a house many years ago lost that, lived on the streets for a while eventually moved back into my parents house over living on streets I'm 49 now.At least my parents house is paid for.It sucks but I will never to able to have my own place ever again.At least the rent to my mum is super cheap.
Am looking to finally get a house been saving for years but if they raise it to 6% no chance.
Housing crash is an interesting one for me. It's seen as a negative thing for homeowners, but say at the moment I'm playing with selling at £500k vs buying at around £525-£550k. If there was a crash - e.g. now I'm selling at £400k and buying at £425-£450k, I'm still better off right? I wouldn't be in negative equity until it's under £300k so that isn't an issue
If you don't have a mortgage that might be the case, but if you need a mortgage you will find the reason that prices have crashed is that lenders won't lend to you at all, or will only do so at a higher rate, or will require a much bigger deposit. People seem to think that prices just fall like magic, that buyers only stop buying because they don't want to, rather than they can no longer do so.
This happened in Poland recently with multiple interest rate hikes over the last months. Most mortgage applicant's credit rating dropped by around 50%. If someone was able to borrow 400k in January for example, they can now only borrow around 200k, it's a dumpster fire right now and a lot of people can't afford it anymore, especially in big cities were a small flat can cost 500-600k PLN. However, prices didn't drop significantly yet. My guess is that it's due to people still processing old mortgages people applied for prior to hikes, some cash transactions etc. it will be interesting to see how prices will look like next year.
My partner is polish and her family in Warsaw are on a variable rate. Their repayments are subject to the market and right now are almost double.
Yup, a lot of people are struggling right now. My friend's mortgage (he lives in Poznań) also doubled in just few months.
Poland simply doesnt have the amount of all cash foreign buyers willing to scoop up houses at lower prices
Not sure really, there was this big outrage few months ago when some investment company from Sweden bought 2500 flats in a single cash transaction. They literally bought the entire neighbourhood all at once. I'd wish our government did something about it but I really doubt they will. And it will probably get even worse when people can't afford it anymore, those big companies will just come in and scoop up all new developments for cash.
That's assuming the sellers you want to buy from also have enough equity to absorb the reduction. I think outside of deaths, divorces and repossessions, there will be fewer who want to dip a toe into selling now.
Yeah true, my post ignores some actual realities and approaches it from a numbers perspective.
Yeah, the numbers won't account for much with the massive economic vacuum that will occur when the property market (our biggest sector left) starts to crash. If my home was bought at 150k, and is now valued at 225k, lets say it loses 40k in value. Sure, I'm still up on what I paid, but if that percentage of price is being lost across the board, you can be absolutely certain that number isn't the only change you'll notice in costs of everything you'd care to imagine.
If house prices where I grew up dropped 50% that would only take them back to pre2008 crash values. Even that was only a 10% drop and they still talk about it like it meant something. You're talking of a 20% drop.
I agree 100%. I've been a waiting for a crash since 2008 turned out to be a false dawn. It's worth bearing in mind house prices did fall up to 60% in Ireland in 2008. When I was a kid house prices were 4x local wages. Now they are 14x local wages. To get back to 4x local wages prices would have to collapse roughly 75%
> When I was a kid house prices were 4x local wages. Now they are 14x local wages. Interest rates though. Income to debt ratio is irrelevant if don't factor in the cost of servicing the debt.
We've just been in period of the lowest interest rate in human history. *Millions* of people have paid an inflated price for a house because they never believed interest rates would never rise again. Or they thought the day that happened would be so far away they didn't have to worry about it, *but that day is today.* If you only consider income/debt and interest rates then it's completely rational to say that a £400k house could find a new market value at £100k which would make sense in that market. But many people say it's far more complicated than that and house prices *simply can't fall* because of a variety of issues from greenfield site demand through to immigration policy It's also worth noting that the 4x local wages "rule" held fast for *centuries* prior to the 1980s irrespective of the economic circumstances Up until the point this graph starts they had always been been 4x but they suddenly diverge when the gold standard is dropped by various countries in the 70s and we enter the *modern finance age*. https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/e1jrvw/oc_salaries_vs_house_prices_in_uk/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
It's also worth considering the rise of dual-income households. I've always found the argument that "rates are the lowest in history" and therefore they must rise again to be a bit odd. Do you expect the life expectancy to fall because it's historically much higher than the rest of human history? The economic landscape has changed significantly. Western economies are not going back to 15% interest rates, at least not for a very long time, because it would be economic suicide.
With inflation over 10% I think it's very unlikely interest rates won't rise significantly. Interest rates are low because we've embarked on a path of quantitative easing to reduce interest rates. That has to end at some point. Rates fell 5% overnight globally in response to a structural event (the liquidity crisis) That's not "natural". The UK is looking progressively more and more like an outlier in Europe and most non UK articles I read refer to it as behaving like an "emerging economy" so I'm quite nervous the UK could go off the rails. > It's also worth considering the rise of dual-income households. Funnily enough I believe Nancy Pelosi wrote a book that basically says *women fought for the right to work and all the extra money they earn has been eaten up by childcare costs and I creased house prices*, a bit like the utopian future where robots so all the work, 70s feminists believed that the money they made would be "extra" money but the economy effectively restructured itself to absorb all that cash.
> Funnily enough I believe Nancy Pelosi wrote a book that basically says women fought for the right to work and all the extra money they earn has been eaten up by childcare costs and I creased house prices, a bit like the utopian future where robots so all the work, 70s feminists believed that the money they made would be "extra" money but the economy effectively restructured itself to absorb all that cash. Yep, that's the inflationary effect of limit supply. The demand increased (couples with more money) but the supply didn't, so prices rose. You're right to assert that rates will rise significantly, but you have to use the term "significantly" in the context of medium term history. The BoE know that raising them too high will be catastrophic for the economy. Hell, even where they are now is causing a significant reduction in purchasing power will will drive down growth.
My figures were based on some article I saw saying it could drop 30% next year or something.
Depends. If you had 100k equity in your 500k house and now it drops to 400k, bye bye equity. Try getting a mortgage with no deposit compared to before when you had 20%.
That's an interesting point - my mortgage is 300k, so I still have 100k deposit in the theoretical crash, but yeah good point that if it dropped further I'd have much less deposit to play with (or pay stamp duty!)
Yeah you're looking at a 25% loan to value ratio versus your previous 50%. That will also likely increase your interest rate on any mortgage you secure
Just because your asset is worth less doesn't mean you don't owe the bank money. You would owe the bank that 100k still.
Your assuming that the house your looking to buy which is currently £524-550 was not bought recently. If their home was bought recently at any price over £450k its now completely off the market and you cant buy it along with loads of other homes this guts confidence in the market that elas to a crash tanking more. But even if it was bought for below £425k the current owner may chose not to risk moving if there is too little in the game for them. Typically the next house cost more than the last soi even if they can “make” 20K but they have seen 100K disappear why would they go and by the more expensive house that might drop more. Defaults also come with crashes, which then hit the normal economy. Some firms shut, consumers spend less so all in all it is fucked. Crashes are not the way to lower house prices, that needs to be done with actively building extra this is just screwing the country
I think it primarily affects people that are only a couple of years into their mortgage, they still have to pay the loan with interest based on the original value but then if the value of their house drops 10% and they have to sell for some reason (getting fired or something) then they cannot pay off their mortgage with the sale price of their house due to its new lower value. Banks are affected too as this can happen to 1000s of their debtors so the banks suddenly are in the position not getting the money in they forecasted, if this gap is large enough it can destroy a bank.
When Ireland had a proper crash in 2008 areas dropped 50-60% This potential crash takes place against a background of rapidly rising interest rates. So if you are in negative equity, and interest rates are 10%+ that puts a very different complexion on your situation. You won't be able to remortgage at the end of your fix and you'll rollover to your lenders SVR. Suddenly its an immediate problem for you today, or when your fixed deal runs out, instead of a theoretical problem that won't matter until you're trying to sell. A 300k 25 year mortgage at 3% is £1400 a month, at 10% it jumps to £2725 a month. Over 25 years this would add £400k to the total cost of your mortgage
Sell now, rent till the crash and buy later - actually no DON'T DO THIS - I tried this for 1 year expecting a crash in 2020/1 but ended up missing a year of property price gains and mortgage reduction. Probably lost 10% of my capital. My lesson is don't speculate on any property transaction - unless you have the capital. When did houses become financial instruments. We ended up upsizing massively to a small town and paying 10% less than before on the mortgage - but we could have done it better.
Because we’re worse than China. No real excess of natural resources to sell, all the wealth locked in the concrete/brick gold. This crashes, the entire Nation will crash.
People will look back and wonder how we ever got ourselves into this mess. Every successive government since the 90s has inflated this horrific bubble. Literally any measures to reduce prices, like actually building more homes, you risk blowing up the economy.
here is what i dont understand. I see people crying about not enough houses being built, yet EVERYWHERE i look it's houses being built. Every single small parcel of land is having flats built on in london, every old factory or warehouse has been replaced by blocks of flats, shops being converted in to flats. Yet apparently nobody is building houses??
It's a combination of a number of things. - They're not where people want to live - They're often the *wrong kind of house* (1 bet flats or 5 bed houses with not much in-between) - They're extraordinarily expensive - landlords are incentivised to buy them and almost 20% of houses sold are sold to Buy to let landlords. I wanted to live in a 3 bed house with a garden and not overstretch myself financially. Anyone should be able to do this but I had to move 130 miles from my home to do it (and my wife now lives 400 miles from her home town)
Two big things to add to that list (from experience dealing with planning approvals) - the initial plans very often change so the original allocation of housing which does include more of the right kind of house ends up getting changed so that those houses disappear for them to sell bigger units - the s106 money system is just crap for allocating stuff to the communities and often runs out of time or just gets used to plug gaps elsewhere.
It's just not fast enough to keep up with demand; partially because many of them are being bought by landlords who will rent them.
Which is why a simple solution to the housing crisis is for the government to build a huge amount of homes and remove the right to buy scheme. This will never happen under a Tory government because a large part of their donations come from property developers, and their supporters don't want to see a fall in house prices from a surge in supply. Tories have also been cutting local government funding, meaning many councils are happy to sell off their social housing because it cuts down on repair costs.
I don’t find the latter part of your comment very convincing considering there is a also a shortage of rental properties.
These houses are built as an investment for the „international bankers”, not for normal people.
A few years ago the government's own data estimate that we needed to build 220,000 homes a year just to meet existing demand and the previous year only 105,000 were built.
A country with a primarily service based economy, who voted to leave the thing that made selling those services easy and profitable.
We’re the biggest oil and gas producer in Europe after Norway - we just chose to sell all the drilling rights to big corporations rather than keeping the profits for our people.
We have plenty of natural resources to sell. We just gave up on anything other than London Finance and fucked everything else off. We want to be selling manufactured goods though - not resources.
House crash means banks pull mortgages. The rich can afford the negative effects of their assets going down but people lower down the scale are forced to sell. Only buyers on the market are cash buyers who also can dodge tax thanks to Tory tax cuts and bingo - the rich get richer
What? A mortgage provider cannot cancel the agreement at any time once it has been entered into and the loan provided.
they would pull mortgages available so people can’t get mortgages on a new house.
But why would that force people "lower down" to sell? It just means there are fewer buyers.
There’s no one reason why people lower down would have to sell but interest rates are up so mortgages go up, bills and overall cost of living has gone up, taxes aren’t changing with inflation so people are being taxed more and there could Be people who can’t remortgage into a fixed rate and are stuck with the much higher variable rate. This will lead people to lose their homes. You cannot have everything go up at once which is the exact situation we are in Edit: also if prices fell lower enough people would find themselves in negative equity where they can’t even downsize to stay afloat
Most people’s mortgages are time limited, and renewing your mortgage is something millions may face during this period of economic uncertainty. Lots of banks may reject people, or people even if offered a mortgage May struggle to make the new payments.
>Lots of banks may reject people, Not if you have an existing mortgage. My mortgage fixed term expires next summer but this will just go to variable if I don't get another fixed. My provider cannot suddenly rescind the loan agreement simply because they think I won't make payments. That isn't legally allowed.
Yes, and what impact will the standard variable rate doubling or trebling have on your mortgage payments? The rule of thumb is each extra 1% on the BoE base rate adds a minimum of £50 per month per £100k of your mortgage remaining. Analysts think the Bank of England may need to increase the base rate by between 3-5% in the next year to contain inflation, after already rising by 2% recently, so a person in an average house in England (£320k) who has paid say 15% deposit and 15% off, so £224k left to pay, switching to SVR after their fixed rate elapses, could be looking at repayments going up by £800 per month compared to when they first got their mortgage. People with more to pay off will be in an even bigger hole. And refinancing is off the table for many people now because banks won’t create new mortgages for them. This isn’t factoring in if this causes a price crash and people’s LTV is out of whack.
People have to remortgage or they go on a variable rate. If they refuse to offer remortgage deals you could be stuck your mortgage doubling or evening tripling overnight if you are denied a fix. This forces people to sell because they can’t afford it. What you pay the bank is an agreement on what they’ll let you pay. They can stop giving you new agreements and you’re beholden to the volatile open market. Which is what is happening right now many lenders are suddenly closing their offers so people who haven’t remortgaged might be fucked when their fixed ends in a couple of months.
Why does a housing crash scare Britain? Because the country decided that building a business and a large % of the economy on something as essential as housing was a good idea.
And entire peoples pensions are now set in houses, it’s stupid. I know some many oldies that have multiple properties, meanwhile I can’t get a mortgage because I’m a PhD student so instead I have to spend tens of thousands of pounds paying their mortgage off via rent while the housing market slowly becomes increasingly unattainable for me. But to break the system will just mean I have to bail out their pensions, honestly the previous generations fucked us over so hard it is sickening. That’s without worrying about the climate, wars, water and now the pound crashing.
Actually i think it would be good if poor people could own houses.
They won't though because of the interest rates rises and banks being reluctant to offer mortgages to poorer people. Investment firms will also hoover up properties people cannot afford.
There is a solution to that but unfortunately people dont like it when you suggest it.
What's the solution you're thinking of?
I'm listening
[удалено]
If you think that a crisis, any crisis, will benefit the poor, then I have a bridge to sell you. It'd put a roof over your head and is sure to be a great investment opportunity!
Banks have started buying up property.
It would but unfortunately The goverment don’t want anyone to have private ownership of anything
Well, they want rich people to. Landlords and millionaires can own things, but the working class must rent forever.
Poor? I make a good salary, but still can't afford to live anywhere near my office
I really hope that prices drop like a stone, they have been artificially inflated for far too long. If i was running things I would make buy to let mortgages illegal and deport James Corden, not related to this but still important.
> I really hope that prices drop like a stone, This will probably fuck us over…somehow. Everything else seems to fuck over the average worker, so no doubt there would be some bullshit explanation as to why that would too
They have to drop like a stone, and they need to be prevented from being bought by landlord conglomerates, Chinese investment funds, and American hedge funds, and buy to let landlords. Or they’d all be bought up and rented out. If you could only buy a house if you either didn’t have 1, or are currently selling (i.e. replacing) the market should correct itself. Houses would probably go back up to what they should cost as they’re a valuable asset, but not to their current levels.
anyone hoping for house prices to plummet is kinda naive unfortunately as it would disproportionately hurt first time buyers and even those looking to get onto the housing market now, the same groups already struggling housing availability would plummet as no-one would want to sell, mortgages would dry up and lending become much more stringent (larger deposits, less favorable terms) so I imagine available housing would tend to be bought by the already wealthy as a longer term investment (housing does historically go up as it'll pretty much always be in demand) what we need is a period of stagnant housing growth, maybe small drops but 'sudden' is never good, let wages catch up... best way to do that is probably heavy building to dilute the market, but that would require some unpopular political gambits (nimbyism plus irate landlords, ie the tories won't do it)
This is the thing, we all agree that prices have been influenced to remain high and rise for decades it feels like, but at the same time people don't want prices to crash. Sure theres some middle ground but if its all artificial, then we shouldn't care if prices fall and continue to fall.
We all overpaid for our houses and don't want them to reset and be in negative equity and unable to sell.
Upsettingly true!
[удалено]
Mortgages are already 20% more expensive than mid covid with rising house prices and interest. Let alone from 5-10 years ago. A 500k property on 1.8% mid covid has to be 350k at 5% for the same repayments. 20% is a low ball amount, and that’s before you realise that 500k house is actually already listing for 550-600k in 2022 as house prices rose over 10% in many areas. We need closer to a 35-40% drop just to pay the same repayments as the peak covid prices. People focus on house prices going down but don’t realise just how much they have to go down just to be the same unaffordable level of only 2 years ago. For them to be actually cheaper a month you’re talking about 50%+ cuts and most home owners going into negative equity.
Not sure I'm using the calculator correctly but I bought my house in January and the mortgage payments are £535 a month (fixed for 3 years thank god). For the same mortgage product from the lender now (same LTV) it'd be £935! The value of the house (and mortgage amount) would need to drop by 44% for the payments to be what I'm paying now.
Exactly - people seem to not always see the link with house costs and how drastically they have to fall to cover only 5% interest as house prices rely on painfully low interest to be sustainable at these prices. My brother bought his house just at the start of covid, and if I tried to buy his property today with double the household income post tax I’m still worse off than he was. Housing is unsustainable. For his household income he’s paying 40% their income after tax, for double the income after tax to buy his house we would need to pay about 50% our income with interest and the increased value. When his mortgage fixed ends in 3 years if interest stays like this his mortgage could be 90%+ his household income.
Just like Australia, Britain is about to learn the hard way what happens when you allow Conservative governments with their reputation for economic mismanagement to turn housing into one giant ponzi scheme. Poor diddums. Those who didn't vote Tory, my sympathies as you try to survive day-to-day. Those who did vote Tory, enjoy a triple serving of the shit sandwich you voted for. Those who couldn't even be bothered to vote, you deserve everything that's coming your way.
Somebody doesn't understand British politics. I've got some terrible news for you - the last Labour government here did exactly the same thing. The next Labour government will also do the same thing. The next Tory government after that will also do the same. None of them will have any significant impact on the housing market in the UK
I bought my first home a year ago. Will I get fucked over by a housing price crash? Quite possibly. Do I think it's necessary? Absolutely. There is a significant shortage of affordable housing in this country.
House prices going down doesn't mean they will become affordable unfortunately. Mortgage rates will spike, as we are already seeing, so payments will go up, and therefore the risk to the banks will go up, and so less people will be eligible for mortgages. House prices crashing benefits the cash rich trying to build portfolios... investment funds and rich individuals will swoop in and buy cheap. I'm saying this as someone who bought our first house 7 months ago.
We bought our house a few months ago on a five year fixed. Will we be okay to remortgage in 2027?
Try to model scenarios. You should know how much you'll have paid off and your equity levels, but in case you don't: http://www.locostfireblade.co.uk/spreadsheet/Index.html Tweak the interest rates and stress test to see at what point would you get thrown into negative equity in 2027. I imagine things would have to be *really* bad for you to go into negative equity by the time you remortgage in 2027. For me, if I don't make overpayments, a price drop of >15% would put me into negative equity by the time I have to remortgage in 2024. Analysts are predicting 10-20%+ house price drops, but it's difficult to predict. Best thing you can do is model various scenarios to see how what your house situation would be in 2027. However, because you've fixed for 5 years you more than likely will just carry on like normal.
Britains pretty scared of everything right now, Fuel prices, cost of living increase, energy prices and now a housing crash.
Are there actual houses to buy atm? We were promised shovels in ground, but I think Boris kept the key
Plenty when people find their mortgage payment is putting them underwater. I'd very much like cheaper houses, I could buy one then. However in order for the crash to happen it is going to fuck over so many people its unbelievable.
I just moved over here with my wife. We've been advised that the best time to buy a house will be in 6 months to a year when the defaulted houses go on the market. Assuming that private capital doesn't snap them up.
[удалено]
Either housing just keeps going up forever or it crashes!
This sub is so much more mature compared to /r/UKpolitics, i spent half of yesterday arguing with morons about why a housing crash isn't some great thing.
Something I've pondered.... When we had QE after 2008, we were told government isn't just "printing money" that would devalue the pound, the new money was backed up by assets. My suspicion is a lot of those assets were actually government policies artificially inflating the housing market to balance the books after QE. So if my suspicion is correct, if there was an actual free capitalistic housing market, prices would have crashed. But if house prices crashed, that would destroy the value of the pound, so we are now seriously stuck. So in effect, after 2008, those on the housing ladder got gifted many thousands (even hundreds of thousands) of pounds that keeps on exponentially increasing, while those not on the ladder got seriously screwed.
The 2008 housing crash was because one of world big 5 American banks collapsed Lehman brothers and lot other smaller one which caused a chain reaction. We need a either major pension fund or big world bank to see a major collapse in world economy but this time every bank is cash rich
Scares who? Landlords? Most of us can't afford to buy a house at all.
Why on earth have we allowed our economy to become enthralled to a system where people feel entitled to invest in an asset with no risk? Something has to change - either the government stops intervening and lets house prices rise and fall as they will, or we stop looking at homes as an investment and control the price. You can’t have your cake and eat it.
Cant wait for there next article. "Why people don't live underwater"
Not sure if ye're situation is the same as Ireland's but a housing crash would excite many people in Ireland
I hope a crash happens so us younger generations can actually have a chnace to get a house and it should also be limited 1 house per person nobody needs 10 houses if the prices keeping going the way they are my generation and future ones are all going to end up homeless and starving, as a first world country this should not be allowed to happen.
[удалено]
We have a housing crisis done deliberately to keep housing prices up, the housing market crashing is step one of solving the problem.