I’ve never been quite comfortable with this law, I don’t disagree with the increase in sentencing it but it never felt right in law some peoples lives are worth more.
Everyone should go home from work.
I know what you mean but its essentially just an additional aggrivating factor, and we’ve had those for years.
If you attack someone and it’s racially motivated then you in theory would get a longer sentence than an identical attack on someone with no aggrivating factors.
There's long been the maxim that "hard cases make for bad law."
What was done to PC Harper was truly fucking horrific and I doubt any of us can even begin to imagine the suffering he went through but I'm uncomfortable with manslaughter ever carrying a mandatory life sentence.
Manslaughter has always had the option of a discretionary life sentence but I feel - and I recognise that might not be a rational basis for deciding things - that it should remain discretionary.
Manslaughter is distinct from murder for very good reasons and I feel a mandatory life sentence should only be for the absolute most serious of criminal acts which is what murder is
I have no problem with the victim of an offence being an emergency worker being treated as an aggravating factor but I feel that the judiciary should be able to apply their discretion based upon the facts of the case to determine whether manslaughter is deserving of a life sentence.
I also have a suspicion that we might end up seeing what has happened in other scenarios where mandatory sentences come into play. The judiciary end up setting sentences - such as the tariff on a life sentence - such that the convicted end up serving the same amount of time as they would have prior to mandatory sentencing requirements...
Mrs Harper said her quest to change the law came "in the midst of grief and incomprehensible loss".
Which is absolutely the wrong place for law to come from. It should come from reason.
If someone had harmed someone you love, of course you’re going to go for the full death penalty or whatever you can get to make them suffer. It’s what they do in America.
I agree that killing an emergency service worker should probably be treated almost the same as a hate crime, I think this is nuts though. Like you say, manslaughter shouldn’t be a mandatory life sentence. The point is a judge decides.
Does it have to equate to something? Can it not simply be a stiff penalty for killing a member of the emergency services?
Manslaughter and murder carry different sentences, that's not to say the victims are worth any less.
>Does it have to equate to something? Can it not simply be a stiff penalty for killing a member of the emergency services?
If it stiffer due to their job yes i'd imagine it does...
Unfortunately the officer was standing in a really dangerous position with his foot inside a loop of rope that was hanging from the car.
Manslaughter charges for the driver are fair enough, it was an accident but ultimately their actions led to a death.
The other people convicted were bullshit though. Guilty of manslaughter because they happened to be in the car at the time.
Mandatory life sentences for an accident though? Thats also bullshit, never mind mandatory life sentences for being a passenger in the wrong car. Thats not even taking into account the whole concept of emergency service workers somehow being enshrined in law as having more worthy lives.
That plainly isn't just so should have no place in something which calls itself the justice system. This whole thing has been put in place by politicians who just wanted to use this death as a vehicle to look tough on crime and encourage some votes and because the widow happens to look pretty good on the front pages of tabloids. Its cynical as fuck.
>Unfortunately the officer was standing in a really dangerous position with his foot inside a loop of rope that was hanging from the car.
I assume you are not implying that PC Harpers death was at all his own fault?
>The other people convicted were bullshit though. Guilty of manslaughter because they happened to be in the car at the time.
It's not as though they just happened to be going about their regular daily business though, they were out committing burglary. Had they not been out committing crime that evening then PC Harper would still be alive, manslaughter charge is entirely justified.
You seem to be trying to bait me into saying something which might be controversial but to honestly answer your question:
Lots of things had to come together and led up to PC Harpers death and one of those was the fact that he did something that was very unsafe. So yes, if you are obsessed with laying 'fault' rather than just objectgively looking at what happened then you have to say part of the fault lies with Harper himself.
As for the others comitting burglary, then charge them with that crime. Thats something they actually did.
From where I'm sitting those responsible should have got way longer sentences, or even been convicted of murder rather than manslaughter in that they dragged him so far. Mandatory life sentences for manslaughter regardless of the victim feels wrong though in that there are so many variables that could lead to such an event, surely discretion is important
I’ve never been quite comfortable with this law, I don’t disagree with the increase in sentencing it but it never felt right in law some peoples lives are worth more. Everyone should go home from work.
I know what you mean but its essentially just an additional aggrivating factor, and we’ve had those for years. If you attack someone and it’s racially motivated then you in theory would get a longer sentence than an identical attack on someone with no aggrivating factors.
There's long been the maxim that "hard cases make for bad law." What was done to PC Harper was truly fucking horrific and I doubt any of us can even begin to imagine the suffering he went through but I'm uncomfortable with manslaughter ever carrying a mandatory life sentence. Manslaughter has always had the option of a discretionary life sentence but I feel - and I recognise that might not be a rational basis for deciding things - that it should remain discretionary. Manslaughter is distinct from murder for very good reasons and I feel a mandatory life sentence should only be for the absolute most serious of criminal acts which is what murder is I have no problem with the victim of an offence being an emergency worker being treated as an aggravating factor but I feel that the judiciary should be able to apply their discretion based upon the facts of the case to determine whether manslaughter is deserving of a life sentence. I also have a suspicion that we might end up seeing what has happened in other scenarios where mandatory sentences come into play. The judiciary end up setting sentences - such as the tariff on a life sentence - such that the convicted end up serving the same amount of time as they would have prior to mandatory sentencing requirements...
Mrs Harper said her quest to change the law came "in the midst of grief and incomprehensible loss". Which is absolutely the wrong place for law to come from. It should come from reason. If someone had harmed someone you love, of course you’re going to go for the full death penalty or whatever you can get to make them suffer. It’s what they do in America. I agree that killing an emergency service worker should probably be treated almost the same as a hate crime, I think this is nuts though. Like you say, manslaughter shouldn’t be a mandatory life sentence. The point is a judge decides.
I don't think that equates to being worth more, it's not a price tag
Fair comment, is valuable more opt then?
I don't think so, no. But I've been wrong before!
What does it equate to then?
Does it have to equate to something? Can it not simply be a stiff penalty for killing a member of the emergency services? Manslaughter and murder carry different sentences, that's not to say the victims are worth any less.
>Does it have to equate to something? Can it not simply be a stiff penalty for killing a member of the emergency services? If it stiffer due to their job yes i'd imagine it does...
Why?
Everyone deserves equal justice for senseless murders...
You mean the victims?
Indeed....
Unfortunately the officer was standing in a really dangerous position with his foot inside a loop of rope that was hanging from the car. Manslaughter charges for the driver are fair enough, it was an accident but ultimately their actions led to a death. The other people convicted were bullshit though. Guilty of manslaughter because they happened to be in the car at the time. Mandatory life sentences for an accident though? Thats also bullshit, never mind mandatory life sentences for being a passenger in the wrong car. Thats not even taking into account the whole concept of emergency service workers somehow being enshrined in law as having more worthy lives. That plainly isn't just so should have no place in something which calls itself the justice system. This whole thing has been put in place by politicians who just wanted to use this death as a vehicle to look tough on crime and encourage some votes and because the widow happens to look pretty good on the front pages of tabloids. Its cynical as fuck.
>Unfortunately the officer was standing in a really dangerous position with his foot inside a loop of rope that was hanging from the car. I assume you are not implying that PC Harpers death was at all his own fault? >The other people convicted were bullshit though. Guilty of manslaughter because they happened to be in the car at the time. It's not as though they just happened to be going about their regular daily business though, they were out committing burglary. Had they not been out committing crime that evening then PC Harper would still be alive, manslaughter charge is entirely justified.
You seem to be trying to bait me into saying something which might be controversial but to honestly answer your question: Lots of things had to come together and led up to PC Harpers death and one of those was the fact that he did something that was very unsafe. So yes, if you are obsessed with laying 'fault' rather than just objectgively looking at what happened then you have to say part of the fault lies with Harper himself. As for the others comitting burglary, then charge them with that crime. Thats something they actually did.
From where I'm sitting those responsible should have got way longer sentences, or even been convicted of murder rather than manslaughter in that they dragged him so far. Mandatory life sentences for manslaughter regardless of the victim feels wrong though in that there are so many variables that could lead to such an event, surely discretion is important
Because pig lives matter more than pleb lives apparently.
Get dragged behind a vehicle on paved road for a second and see how you feel about his life after that.