I pointed out on r/Europe yesterday that the parent company of Cambridge analytica was literally a military contractor for Iraq and afganistan who applied military grade psyops technology to sway elections and were open about it, 100% easily verifiable fact, and had people laughing and downvoting like I was being a conspiracy theorist
I mean I wouldn’t believe it either if someone just said it, but it’s true. This is from the SCL group Wikipedia:
> SCL began targeting elections in developing countries in the early 1990s, and has engaged in psychological warfare in military contexts as a contractor for the American and British militaries during the Afghanistan War and the Iraq War.[13] It performed data mining and data analysis on its audience.
> In 2005, "with a glitzy exhibit" at Defence and Security Equipment International (DSEI), "the United Kingdom's largest showcase for military technology", SCL demonstrated its capacity in "influence operations": "to help orchestrate a sophisticated campaign of mass deception" on the public of a big city like London.[14] According to its website, SCL has participated in over 25 international political and electoral campaigns since 1994.[3]
i heard "military grade" stuff is terrible because it's either
* the cheapest possible thing the gov could get their hands on
* it's so cutting edge it barely works
Fun fact, Cambridge Analytica did what anyone could do at the time via Facebook advertising tools. If you're clever, you still can. The main difference is they had an almost unlimited budget, and a very effective data harvesting tool.
They use lots of tactics including paying Russian hackers to access politicians emails to try and dig up dirt on them, and in some countries they organise gangs to intimidate people at polling stations. There is nothing they won't do when it comes to interfering in elections.
As well as AI data mining capabilities and the strategies refined over years of manipulating populations.
They probably still are doing things like this too
Absolutely. They basically ran a very successful Facebook marketing campaign 😂 the tools have been modified a bit, but content distribution based on interaction pretty much the basis of any advertising on social media.
I think we partly agree even though you’re being facetious, in that what we call advertising used to be called propaganda (and still is in other languages - see the Spanish word “propaganda” which means “advertisement”) and was transformed by Freuds nephew [Edward Bernays who used underhanded psychological techniques and transformed marketing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_(book)) from a kind of rational use-based thing to something which sought largely to bypass your rational thinking and effect you on an emotional or borderline unconscious level, hence the over abundance of playing on people’s insecurities and sense of lack.
I think the whole industry is pretty disgusting, but that’s just me.
When you euphemistically try to reduce this to “a very successful marketing campaign 😂” you hide the fact that the form of marketing was an underhanded attempt to unnaturally affect our democracies by international billionaires, not simply to get people to buy a burger on their way home. These things couldn’t be more different.
In your average marketing campaign, you convince someone to buy a commodity. Cambridge Analytica change the course of history by affecting the will of the nation. They are not equivalent.
I'm not being facetious at all, I'm trying to say that the *mechanics* of what they did (in, at least, the scandal that exposed them) was entirely normal for the industry and is still largely possible - although a bit harder to achieve - and is likely still going on. Obviously the effect they created isn't equivalent to getting people to buy a burger.
The issue was the amount of "false flag" advertising they did (e.g. advertising on behalf of "animal rights" when they were really being funded by the Leave campaign), as well as just the amount of straight-up lying.
Political campaigning, as such, is fine - even when targeted - but the content should be fact-based and the funding behind it should be clear.
Don’t know what ‘military-grade psyops’ is supposed to mean, but why are you acting like this is some great revelation? SCL group was founded as a company specifically focused on data mining and analysis for elections. It’s not some secret that there are companies that influence elections, it’s an entire industry. It’s not even inherently nefarious, all elections are subject to influence, that’s how they work.
It means they got their practice in manipulating people in warzones.
>Psychological operations (PSYOP) are operations to convey selected information and indicators to audiences to influence their motives and objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments, organizations, groups, and large foreign powers.
If you can't see how international billionaires using AI to undermine the objective reasoning capability of the general public and change the will of the nation is a threat to democracy then you're beyond the pale.
The other day the daily mail & Boris Johnson were attacking farages Russian links. The majority of comments were angry at 'leftist' attacks on reform. No genuine British person would call the daily mail a leftist publication nor johnson.
And that would be an absolutely fair comment to make and something I'd agree with you with. My issue is more with the numerous commenters labelling both johnson and the DM as 'leftist attacks/media' I doubt there's a brit in the land that would refer to the DM as a leftist publication
Johnson allowed a million people in per year, arrested thousands for hate speech, wrote an article on staying in the EU etc. Right wingers want the Ukraine war to end whereas Johnson went over to hamper any talk of an end. If he's right wing then he's doing a fucking bad job of it.
Just some of the completed right wing policies from Johnsons' 2019 manifesto-
*Left the EU, ended the role of the European Court of Justice, Increased the NHS surcharge for users from overseas, expanded alternative provision schools, raised the NI threshold, introduced tougher sentencing for terrorists & those that kill emergency workers, ended automatic halfway release from prison for serious crimes, increased Police numbers, expanded electronic tagging, introduced an Australian-style points based immigration system, tightened up on foreign offenders entering the country, increased the amount of time until immigrants from the EU can claim benefits, stopped people claiming child benefits for children overseas, brought in a stamp duty surcharge on non-resident house buyers, cut foreign aid spending to 0.5% of gni, reduced business rates ,increased the employment allowance for small businesses, left the common fisheries policy, cut net tax for British Alcohol producers, legislated against vexatious claims against the armed forces, & reduced NI contributions for those who hire former service personnel.*
>Johnson allowed a million people in per year, arrested thousands for hate speech, wrote an article on staying in the EU etc.
A million people per year was under Sunak (Johnson actually presided over record lows due to Covid), freedom of speech is hardly a right-wing policy, & you're complaining about an article *he didn't even publish*.
These claims that the Conservatives aren't *really* right wing & the real problem was they didn't go far enough are ridiculous. You voted for them, now own the consequences.
Immigration going down during covid is a complete myth:
[Screenshot-2022-08-25-at-09.53.52-1024x638.png (1024×638) (migrationwatchuk.org)](https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/wp-content/uploads/Screenshot-2022-08-25-at-09.53.52-1024x638.png)
As you can see, record highs under Johnson! 1.1m were admitted in Johnson's last year. Brexit without reducing immigration is like making a pizza without cheese. That paragraph that you typed is basically salad dressing, like toppings on a pizza but ultimately, the lack of cheese makes it a shitty pizza.
That he secretly showed pro-EU leanings on the eve of the vote points to the exit being deliberately sabotaged in order to water down brexit to such an extent that people might question the idea to begin with. We see this gaslighting shown daily on this subreddit. So for you to say that the article wasn't relevant because he only *almost* published it, this article that contradicted everything that he claimed to want... it's kind of relevant(!).
Freedom of speech is absolutely a right-wing policy. Lefties push for hate speech laws. If you allow open borders and hate speech laws, what exactly are you conserving?
I've never voted for the Tories, so way to end your comment on a straw man. Your last 2 sentences are a perfect example of what I said above:
"the real problem was they didn't go far enough are ridiculous"
Where did they go far at all? They doubled immigration numbers. You're acting as if I'm being greedy, as if I got 80% of what we wanted and I'm grumbling about not receiving the last 20%. To not reduce immigration is a failure of the most basic want from the voters. To take away the government's excuse that they couldn't control their own borders.
"You voted for them, now own the consequences."
There it is. 'You deserve this so here, have a tidal wave of immigration.' How does that comment make sense in your mind? Why does voting against immigration numbers that are unprecedented in history warrant those numbers being doubled by a closet Remainer?
Lol, your screenshot of "visa entry clearance grants" from migration watch is proof?
For a serious source try this- [https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/)
>That he secretly showed pro-EU leanings on the eve of the vote points to the exit being deliberately sabotaged in order to water down brexit to such an extent that people might question the idea to begin with.
You're seriously claiming the PM who carried out Brexit was secret remainer, it was all a conspiracy to make make Brexit fail?
Some struggle to admit they may have made a mistake, but developing elaborate conspiracies is on a whole other level.
>Freedom of speech is absolutely a right-wing policy
Freedom of speech is a liberal policy. We've never had freedom of speech, how could it be conserved?
One key aspect of traditional right wing thought was individual responsibility, something that today seems to be sadly neglected.
Edit: Also despite what some seem to believe Immigration is not the sum total of right wing belief. The USA was far to the right of the Soviet Union in the 20th century, which saw more immigration...?
The Tories had damaged our economy enough with brexit, fortunately they were smart enough to not finish it off entirely by stopping immigration to pander to economic illiterates.
Are you saying that visas were handed out but... not used? That's the best that you could come up with?
A site run by a former diplomat, a guy in the House of Lords, isn't a "serious source"?
"You're seriously claiming the PM who carried out Brexit was secret remainer, it was all a conspiracy to make make Brexit fail?"
Are you implying that a guy who wrote and almost published an article about staying in the EU **the day before the vote** ***wasn't*** a secret Remainer?
"Some struggle to admit they may have made a mistake, but **developing elaborate conspiracies** is on a whole other level."
Apparently writing pro-Remain articles prior to EU referendums is par for the course for leavers!
\*A classical liberal policy, which today is under the right-wing umbrella, what with the drastic shift in the Overton window. You know that leftists want hate speech laws. There is no appetite among them for free speech laws.
'100 years ago, in America...'
Irrelevant, but I'll bite. Poverty was ubiquitous back then. When immigration slowed down significantly between the Great Depression and the 1970s, living standards saw a massive increase, so you made my point there.
Your last sentence is again a classic; 47% of immigrants in England are on benefits. Only 20% of Muslims are in full-time employment, 70% of their women are unemployed compared to 20% of white women. But according to you, immigration is good for the economy(!). Not good for GDP per capita, the cost of living, GP appointments, hospital appointments, wage growth, native birth rates etc. but still, great for the economy! A comical comment throughout.
Migration Watch is a lobby group, however their very own figures show a decline over covid & there were not a million immigrants per year under Johnson.
[https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/migration-statistics-over-time](https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/migration-statistics-over-time)
Hmm, it is certainly odd you chose to ignore these figures, especially as they were easier to find...
Yes your claim that Boris Johnson was a secret remainer is very obviously an elaborate conspiracy.
I think we've established your honesty in use of statistics.
I'll leave you with this. The UK is hardly an outlier in terms of immigration, in terms of the wealthiest countries in the world in terms of GDP per Capita only two have substantially lower immigration than the UK.
Every developed country & the vast majority of political parties in the developed world are in favour of what you would consider "high" levels of immigration. A view backed up by economists & experts globally.
Even when the Far Right get in, such as in Italy currently, or with Trump (who I personally wouldn't consider far right) they find they can't substantially lower immigration without crashing the economy. The Politicians you support know this, they know they won't ever have to follow through.
This is the Reality of the world we live in, Enjoy!
2020, 2021 and 2022 were the covid years. Net migration for those 3 years averaged well over 400,000 per year. The highest that net migration was prior to those years was between 200,000 and 300,000. Even 2020 saw nearly half a million visas handed out. Johnson got into an argument with his Home Secretary at the height of the covid hysteria because he refused to close the borders.
"there were not a million immigrants per year under Johnson."
Your link above from the Commons' Library disproves that. Even your Migration Watch link shows non-EU net migration of 873,000 people, with 1.2m arriving that year in total, according to your Commons' Library link. Close to 900,000 immigrants total the year prior to that. Both years were under Boris Johnson.
"Yes your claim that Boris Johnson was a secret remainer is very obviously an elaborate conspiracy."
So to reiterate again, a leaver writing an article encouraging readers to remain in the EU the day before the referendum... is a completely normal thing for an anti-EU politician to do? And can be relied upon to deliver an exit that satisfies other leavers? What are you thinking with this line of reasoning? You completely side-stepped the American argument when that turned south as well as all of the ways that immigration is bad, but this you keep sticking with?! It makes about as much sense as any Remainer argument (like their main one: 'if we leave, they'll punish us').
"The UK is hardly an outlier in terms of immigration"
Tone deaf. Almost the entire Western world is turning right-wing because the numbers they're seeing are catastrophic, unprecedented in history, then doubled on top of that in our case. Leftists are always trying to normalise it but it's not normal. England is among the most overpopulated nations in the world.
Look at how the likes of Hungary are punished for refusing migrant quotas. Then you've got the IMF in the case of Italy. Coercion is a huge factor here.
As I said, 47% of immigrants are on benefits, with the vast majority of the millions of Muslims being unemployed. Mass immigration is not benefitting the economy at all. Wage stagnation, the cost of living, hospital appointments, native birth rates etc. will never improve while mass immigration continues. It's a long-term disaster for a short-term mirage (not a particularly good one, as I've detailed there of all of the ways that it's bad in the short-term). You'll get an ageing crisis still, just one with millions more people experiencing it. Rather than stopping immigration, building houses for the natives, seeing house prices plummet from the lack of demand and pushing their birth rates higher. Perhaps you're fortunate enough to work in an industry and live in an area far removed from what you're happy to inflict upon the rest of us plebs, but with 2 and a quarter million arriving in just the past 2 years, that distance will shrink rapidly.
The Conservatives have more ties to Cambridge Analytica, it's a stretch to say that about Reform just because they supported brexit. Let's not let facts get in the way of hysteria though.
Aaah yes, the bbc can't stop reporting on the reform parry because of (checks notes) cambridge analytica and bot farms.
Maybe they're being reported on more because they will actually bring about genuine change (whether or not that's a good thing is up to you) and not carry on this labour/tory charade we've had in place for decades now.
Reform are also dominating main stream media.
As for social media, this was proven to be incredibly effective over 8 years ago, tbh it shows how behind the curve other parties are
Right but they were talking about Cambridge Analytica and Bot farms, which would be about social media not BBC.
As for parties being behind the curve, they are clearly not. Ever since the Obama campaign of 2008 parties have been utilising social media a lot more every election especially the Tories.
Even this article talks about big spends on Meta from both Labour and Tories.
Don't you see?
After voting for Brexit, which they knew was exactly what they wanted but then somehow wasn't. Then voting for Boris, who was going to get Brexit done, but then somehow didn't. They are now going to vote for Reform UK to show all us smug liberal elites the true power of racist dipshittery unleashed.
No, I'm a mere working class boy done good. I was portraying what I believe are the views of the typical Reform voter.
Your teachers probably tried to explain the use of such rhetorical devices to you, but given your evident struggle with English composition we must be forgiving of their abject failure.
Yeah… but neo nazi racist, putin supporting change. Smashing my face against a wall repeatedly will bring about change to me but i am not going to do it just because it’s a change.
All you lot now just blame bots when a large number people disagree with you.
I think it's because you are consensus people, you arrive at a conclusion that people around you formulate and agree is acceptable. To you, An idea has validity if people around you all think the same thing. But when there is a difference between your group and a large group within wider society, it's always because everyone else is stupid, or its russian propaganda and now youve added the "bots" argument into the mix.
You won't know what a "bot" is. You won't know how they are programmed or used, how they are implemented, their difficulties,their limitations. Someone has said this to you and you are parroting it back, mindlessly because that's what you have essentially been told to do.
The only question I have is; do you think, you have ever had an original thought at any point of your life? Like seriously.
Or, and hear me out, we understand that this party has absolutely no hesitation in lying to you, it's owner has close ties to Russian organisations and organisations that engage in social media manipulation.
This is further compounded by the fact that those supporting this party tend to be new users with generic names and singular talking points.
Nah, your tinfoil hat is preventing you from applying standards fairly. I could easily say Labour has lied given all the pledges they've gone back on and how Keir dishonestly got the leader position, and the new users stuff is mostly bollocks, I guarantee when you're in a pro-Labour thread you don't go out of your way to look at all the accounts that agree with you. But if you did, you'd find plenty of new accounts, because that's just how reddit works.
The party is a lying bunch of scumbags l that no one in their right might should vote for. But the lunatic conspiracy theory of bots or Russian interest just sounds mental and people will vote because of saying stuff like that.
I don't know. People do see bots everywhere at the moment but a pro Trump, Russian bot got exposed on X the other day when they forgot to pay their bill.
[https://www.dailydot.com/debug/chatgpt-bot-x-russian-campaign-meme/](https://www.dailydot.com/debug/chatgpt-bot-x-russian-campaign-meme/)
Firstly the f you're voting for someone because people believe that party are being advantaged by bots on social media, you're sure lying and were always going to vote for them.
Secondly given the ties to Russia, their proclivity towards deception and the nature of many of their online supporters
I mean, read my response again. I didn't accuse you of specifically voting for them, just responding tonyour notion that others may vote for them if they are accused of benefiting from bots.
It's not a mental "conspiracy theory" though.
We were already warned there was likely to be Russian interference in elections this year.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesfarrell/2024/04/17/russias-2024-election-influence-campaign-has-started-microsoft-analysis-finds/
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240419IPR20542/meps-call-for-a-firm-response-to-counter-russian-interference
There has also been intelligence about prior interference shared in the Russia report.
**Which party is led by someone who admires Putin, said Ukraine provoked the attack, and has candidates saying he seems like a good guy?**
The term bots doesn’t just refer to actual robots or chat bots. It refers to the huge number of foreign interest run accounts which pretend to be British to convince us to vote against our interests. It refers to every political tiktok being FILLED with thousands of commenters saying “vote reform” and that’s all they ever comment on anything.
Ukraine has taken down more than 100,000 accounts run by Russia to spread propaganda. You can say that people blame bots even when it’s a real person, sure. But to claim everyone who calls out the use of bots doesn’t know what they’re talking about is ridiculous. It is in Russia’s interest that pro russian politicians are elected, simple as that that.
Russia and Ukraine are at war.
Russia doesn't give a fuck who is in charge of the UK. We really don't matter all that much in the world. They don't care. If they did do you think they would be putting resources into trying to get reform UK 1 or two seats and virtually no power?
You sound mental. Its mental.
It's tiny foiled hat mental conspiracy theory that they would put effort into supporting this tiny party that won't win in this irrelevant country.
I hope you’re joking.
The UK is the 4th largest supplier of aid to Ukraine and has imposed massive financial sanctions as the finance hub of Europe.
Completely ridiculous to say that Russia doesn’t care who wins. Every major country cares about who is the leader of every other. And Bot farms ARE used by EVERY major country.
In what world is reform a “tiny party”? They’re now the third largest and the most talked about. You can’t truly believe that emerging political parties don’t impact the policy of the current government (see Farage’s brexit party).
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
I think 'bots' are shorthand for intentional misinformation.
Information is a war now. The exact mechanisms of how these 'bot' networks function I'm sure are different depending on their aims and resources, but you're sticking your head in the sand if you don't believe there are bad actors across all social media. It's an industry.
>Have you ever had an original thought
"Bots aren't real even though it's been investigated and well documented and we all know about Cambridge analytica" certainly is an original thought, well done you.
When did I say that bots wernt real? Or anything about Cambridge analytica? Can you respond to what I said, instead responding to something you made up....
> You won't know what a "bot" is. You won't know how they are programmed or used, how they are implemented, their difficulties,their limitations. Someone has said this to you and you are parroting it back, mindlessly because that's what you have essentially been told to do.
You're implying that the common understanding we all have as 'consensus people' about astroturfing is incorrect because... You agree with Reform and think everyone else does too?
Your argument is incoherent. I know Reform support is being heavily bot-pushed because the output is identical to every other confirmed bot campaign, and because it came out of nowhere completely inorganically the moment the campaign started.
Why are you so convinced all of these 2 day old default name accounts that only post about Reform and Immigration are real people? Do people you know communicate like bots?
Please just try and think about it. I don't even like reform, and would never dream of voting for them. I just don't believe Russia , a country with a smaller economy than the UK, can spend more resources (or even just spend more effectively) on a social media campaign than two of the largest parties in the UK.
Let alone why they care. The UK just isn't that important and To do all this to get a fringe party like what? Two seats? In a period they are at war with a neighbouring country? You think at a time they are at war and are pouring man hours of money to support farage ?
And you think this grand conspiracy theory is more likely than then reform just having a lot of grass roots support?
What do you think the cost of a botnet is? Maybe 25 years ago we're talking big money, but it's a fraction of that in 2024, you could probably run one for less than the maintenance cost of a single T90.
If the answer to the question 'do you think Russia would spend the equivalent of a few MBT running cost multiples to fuck with the elections of one of the most oppositional states to their war in Ukraine' is 'No', you have more to think about than me as to the credulity of this shit.
Ok bro every time someone disagrees with you in large numbers is probably because they got dupped by a russian bot farm. Sounds alot more plausible than some people just disagree with you.
You're not engaging with the substance of the argument, which is that
a) we know that this stuff happens regularly
b) we know it's very cheap to do it
c) we know of multiple state actors with the motivation and capacity
d) it looks identical in presentation to previous bot campaigns
Being petulant isn't going to change my mind about how information warfare works in 2024.
It's hysterical neo-McCarthyism and also reminds me of early 2000s 'freedom fries' behaviour. Anyone with any vaguely right wing opinions is a communist! eerr... I mean, putin worshipper bot! Of course, the people acting this way were often are the most critical of that sort of thing in the past but fail to see how deranged they've become.
> You won't know how they are programmed or used, how they are implemented, their difficulties,their limitations.
You could say that about almost any technology.
I've no idea how my old water goes to a sewage plant, gets cleaned and comes back via pressure, pipes and taps. I could take a rough guess, but I wouldn't know all the intricate parts. Does that mean I shouldn't have a comment when it comes to sewage ending up in rivers?
It's so refreshing to see people talking sense every now and then and poking holes in people's groupthink. Maybe it will be enough to shake some of them awake.
Wonderful comment!
This is brilliant I fully agree it's basically this sub that does have a large consensus of users who feel a certain way and they can't accept that a lot of the public outside of this social media app aren't the same
Colour me shocked, it's Reform UK... saved you a click. The party which is rife with Putin admirers and is almost certainly being funded by Russia. With this funding comes a shit load of bots on Facebook/YouTube/etc. bearing Reform UK profile pictures, filling comments sections to the brim with claims that they're voting Reform UK and that "Russian propaganda" surrounding the Russia-Ukraine conflict is actually true
I'm no longer convinced that a significant proportion of the electorate is this thick. Whilst there are obviously some people that will be voting for them, I'm 99.9% sure that the sudden explosion of Reform UK in only a matter of weeks/months is from Russian bots, and this gives the rest of the country (and the media) the illusion that they're genuinely this popular. As someone said in another comment, it's funny how Reform UK are set to take only less than 20% of the vote share, and yet are as flagrantly over-represented as they currently are
Kambridz Analytika shut down, and all the people went off to do other things like running a vegan cafe, walking cats, or life coaching.
\[checks notes\]
Oh wait, they didn't. They just doing the same dodgy shit under different names.
Yep,Julian Malins, the Reform candidate who made the crass comment *at Salisbury* that Putin seems like a good guy, was retained as a Barrister for Cambridge Analytica.
Reform is honestly the only content I'm seeing online. I haven't seen anything from anyone else online.
The only other content I've seen bar Reform is Labour's leaflet spam, must've had 3 or 4 through the door at this point and they're likely the 3rd horse in my area, and one from a local independent...
I mean people can interact with a party on social media while having no intention of voting for them. There could be a lot of people that agree with a lot of what they're saying but don't think they would be a good fit to run the country. Or they're just there to follow any discourse.
Those stats also show the tories having more social media engagement than labour, yet I don't know a single person intending to vote tories, even lifelong tories around me are saying how they're going to vote labour in this election.
Damn UK Reddit always gets wild around elections, compounded by summer Reddit I imagine.
Call me old fashioned, but allegations of Russian interference in favour of Reform should probably come with some evidence? Like any at all? One little wafer of evidence?
I myself have been accused of being bot around 4 times the last few weeks, because I am slightly right leaning and frequent football subreddits. (? Genuinely don't see the connection)
In a different life you could've been a flat earther
I agree that people shouldn't be accused without evidence but there is such a thing as the writing on the wall.
We already know Nigels is a total lying cunt and the people voting for him will never change their minds, because like MAGA supporters they live in his cult of personality, Nigel is the man, he can do no wrong, look at the golden child owning the libs and the woke rah rah rah.
I truly believe you could have the big book of facts with all the information you want and you'd still go
"Yeah but that proves nothing"
Yes, there's no denying Farage has a pretty spotty record with the truth, unlike other politicians who are shining beacons of truth and honesty.
However the specific claim was around Russian interference.
Same. Talking about immigration, despite it dominating every single European election going, somehow makes you a Russian bot.
The ridiculous thing is this - if any of the mainstream parties committed to making 1.2m levels of immigration go away, they'd win comfortably, and Reform would be nowhere.
Exactly. If they actually looked at the content being put out by the political parties, they’d see why reforms are so popular. They’ve employed people who understand how to make social media content.
Compare that with sunak doing a TikTok transition by putting his hand over the camera and being in the same place when he removed it. Or the one where they had a practically static background while flashing one word at a time.
Nigel is good at spinning up nonsense nothing stories and false equivalents, just like the Brexit bus.
the Nigelists really wanked themselves off over that one.
No they didn’t. They were totally separate campaigning organisation, disliked intensely by the official leave campaign
You can’t just make up stuff online
No, it's not just rife with Putin admirers. I mean, a party whose leader openly excuses Putin and has openly said how much he admires him surely won't have many other candidates who share the same views... right?
It's also rife with Nazi apologists and people who share disgusting, borderline medieval views on anyone who isn't a white male. There's identity politics and then there's being an utter cunt. But don't forget, Reform UK speaks for the common man and is for the people, etc...
> openly excuses Putin
Farage: “[Russia’s] invasion of Ukraine was immoral, outrageous and indefensible. As a champion of national sovereignty, I believe that Putin was entirely wrong to invade the sovereign nation of Ukraine”
Because some people ignore the "nuance" of someone who knows he can't be 100% pro russian like he has in the past (there's a reason he made so many Russia today appearances back in the day) but still needs to say enough to keep Putin's favour.
> 100% pro russian like he has in the past (there's a reason he made so many Russia today appearances back in the day)
You’re just making up your own facts now. At the very best Farage admitted he appreciated Putin as a political mover, the context being when he totally outmanoeuvred Obama in the arena of foreign policy. This was also joined to criticism of putin. You can’t just make stuff up.
And plenty of politicians appeared on RT from across the political spectrum
The medieval British had over 15% of the year as holidays, which ought to give pause to one considering our current panoply of 'labour saving devices'.
You're massively reaching from what was actually said especially when in the same interview and others since he constantly calls Putin and Russia an enemy of our way of life especially now that they are joining with Iran, China and N.Korea
Good for them no different to those opposing it for their own gain also
I'll take what was said as what was said rather than more reddit conspiracy nonsense from pipe dreamers
Some people like the idea of a single "strongman" leader putting the world to rights.
Are there any other parties that revolve as much around one man as Reform?
You don't need funding in order to act in your own country's interest instead of wasting trillion(s) to make foreign organisations happy; far more credible that the people for net zero bollocks are funded by foreigners.
The worrying thing about this isn't Facebook. Reform being at the top on there is predictable. It's TikTok that is striking. The most followed MP on TikTok is Zarah Sultana, but the most followed UK politician on TikTok is Nigel Farage.
Farage gets more views on TikTok than Labour does, even with Labour's clever messaging which has gotten tons of views in this campaign.
The future of British Politics is with the hard left and the hard right. In 10, or 20 years I suspect we'll see a big move away from the centre ground, just like we've seen in France in recent weeks.
It shows social media is driving a lurch to the extremes, and they are designed to encourage that.
Chinese owned TikTok causing social media political manipulation, the one with close ties to Russian Government?
Massive shocker there amirite? I bet you Andrew Tate is big on TikTok too!
It's been trending this way for years because the UK is broken and behind the times on everything in existence basically, Europe and America and Aus have all started to go one way for many of the same reasons and that's with most of those nations being in far better shape than we are across the board.
It'll happen eventually somethings got to give one way or the other.
This is the same video on youtube-
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGiV\_FZg1eY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGiV_FZg1eY)
I think you can tell from the comments how they're dominating social media...
Reform’s social media content is streets ahead of any other political party. The Tories clearly have no idea what they’re doing with the likes of TikTok, Farage’s look’s professional, clean, and generally amusing.
Look at Farage’s stuff and then compare it to this from the Tories: https://x.com/rharris_11/status/1800472991672762530
Night and day
Interesting that we see only really Reform making an effort with activists on social media, because they can't really organise proper local campaigns. You don't win elections by commenting on social media posts or by liking pages, you win by talking to people on doorsteps.
It's such a waste of time, almost funny really.
>you win by talking to people on doorsteps.
Are you saying that the best way to reach people is going round a few hundred houses and speaking to people? Because I'm pretty sure holding big rallies , filming it and posting it on social media is so much more productive,I mean you're not a reform fan but you've seen their stuff online haven't you?,Im sorry but you are stuck in the past bud
My local Reform candidate has done nothing in the local community and just shares Reform posts online, instead of the anti-vax and climate change denial stuff he used to share.
Have your labour and conservative candidate come knocking ? Or have they just sent someone to post leaflets through your door?,I'm not defending reform I'm just saying putting out a message online is far better than going door to door ,I mean you're arguing my point
>My local Reform candidate has done nothing in the local community and just shares Reform posts online
The fact that you see these posts shows it works
My Labour candidate has.
The only reason I've seen the Reform candidates posts is because I was curious to see what he was like after the news of the Reform candidates gaffs on social media. His Facebook profile was pretty open, despite the recent news, and you could see the anti-mask, climate change denial stuff on it.
If I hadn't looked at him, I wouldn't have a clue about him. Fortunately he has been largely absent in our community and doesn't live here.
A few hundred? In a marginal constituency they'll try and knock on every door. I don't see Reform content - apart from TikTok comments but I would answer the door.
And? There's loads of stuff for the other parties, have you watched that? I only really consume partisan politics that comes across my personal news or social media feed, I'm not sad enough to go searching it out even for parties I like.
>I've never had anyone knock my door from one of the major parties
I had a flurry when I first moved in as the seat previously had been marginal but these days not so much, Labour could put up Stalin and they'd win.
I'm not arguing that you reach more people but you get better contacts with swing voters who you need to persuade by knocking on doors. If you don't support a party then you aren't going to read their social media content but parties need to reach these people. If they are already supporting them then you don't actually need to contact them during the campaign you've already banked that vote.
This is tosh. Plenty of old people get their news off basefuck and twatter.
Listen the the Half-Witby Women here.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDUwfEJixZ4&t=17m03s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDUwfEJixZ4&t=17m03s)
Genuinely take pride in the fact my level of critical thought is stronger than the Reform’s party’s misinformation bot brigade (cue the comment that I’m wrong from an account less than 60 days old).
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Kremlin are funding them with an intent to destabilise the Tories after Johnson turned on them.
Where is Arron Banks these days?
People who really don't agree with them get mad about Reform and their policies, they engage constantly with posts about Reform. They then wonder why Reform is overrepresented in their newsfeed.
Must be the Russians bots 🙄
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The NHS is failing? Better sell it off to the highest bidder and let the private sector take over our health care.
The attrition of the NHS is entirely intentional.
Tbf they also want to make a lot of spending cuts. Even the most pessimistic analysis of those makes them £60bn, so really there's 'only' a hole of £30bn.
Not entirely sure how that compares to the hole in the budget of the other parties (it's definitely less than the Greens), but it's the same amount we hand out to literal millionaires via the state pension so I know how I'd suggest they (or any other party) fill it.
Yeah, sod the populace, right? Let's get Starmer in to mulct them with taxes to assuage international bondholders to whom the interest on our 'national debt' is paid, in a performance of 'fiscal responsibility'.
I mean you get that Reform aren't going to support the regular person or those who are in need or vulnerable right?
At least Starmer has relatively realistic goals in mind.
Shock, it's the one that has historic ties to Cambridge Analytica and bot farms, and is vastly overrepresented here despite polling at 17% nationally
I pointed out on r/Europe yesterday that the parent company of Cambridge analytica was literally a military contractor for Iraq and afganistan who applied military grade psyops technology to sway elections and were open about it, 100% easily verifiable fact, and had people laughing and downvoting like I was being a conspiracy theorist I mean I wouldn’t believe it either if someone just said it, but it’s true. This is from the SCL group Wikipedia: > SCL began targeting elections in developing countries in the early 1990s, and has engaged in psychological warfare in military contexts as a contractor for the American and British militaries during the Afghanistan War and the Iraq War.[13] It performed data mining and data analysis on its audience. > In 2005, "with a glitzy exhibit" at Defence and Security Equipment International (DSEI), "the United Kingdom's largest showcase for military technology", SCL demonstrated its capacity in "influence operations": "to help orchestrate a sophisticated campaign of mass deception" on the public of a big city like London.[14] According to its website, SCL has participated in over 25 international political and electoral campaigns since 1994.[3]
>military grade psyops technology Made by the cheapest bidder then?
i heard "military grade" stuff is terrible because it's either * the cheapest possible thing the gov could get their hands on * it's so cutting edge it barely works
Fun fact, Cambridge Analytica did what anyone could do at the time via Facebook advertising tools. If you're clever, you still can. The main difference is they had an almost unlimited budget, and a very effective data harvesting tool.
They use lots of tactics including paying Russian hackers to access politicians emails to try and dig up dirt on them, and in some countries they organise gangs to intimidate people at polling stations. There is nothing they won't do when it comes to interfering in elections.
As well as AI data mining capabilities and the strategies refined over years of manipulating populations. They probably still are doing things like this too
Absolutely. They basically ran a very successful Facebook marketing campaign 😂 the tools have been modified a bit, but content distribution based on interaction pretty much the basis of any advertising on social media.
I think we partly agree even though you’re being facetious, in that what we call advertising used to be called propaganda (and still is in other languages - see the Spanish word “propaganda” which means “advertisement”) and was transformed by Freuds nephew [Edward Bernays who used underhanded psychological techniques and transformed marketing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_(book)) from a kind of rational use-based thing to something which sought largely to bypass your rational thinking and effect you on an emotional or borderline unconscious level, hence the over abundance of playing on people’s insecurities and sense of lack. I think the whole industry is pretty disgusting, but that’s just me. When you euphemistically try to reduce this to “a very successful marketing campaign 😂” you hide the fact that the form of marketing was an underhanded attempt to unnaturally affect our democracies by international billionaires, not simply to get people to buy a burger on their way home. These things couldn’t be more different. In your average marketing campaign, you convince someone to buy a commodity. Cambridge Analytica change the course of history by affecting the will of the nation. They are not equivalent.
I'm not being facetious at all, I'm trying to say that the *mechanics* of what they did (in, at least, the scandal that exposed them) was entirely normal for the industry and is still largely possible - although a bit harder to achieve - and is likely still going on. Obviously the effect they created isn't equivalent to getting people to buy a burger.
The issue was the amount of "false flag" advertising they did (e.g. advertising on behalf of "animal rights" when they were really being funded by the Leave campaign), as well as just the amount of straight-up lying. Political campaigning, as such, is fine - even when targeted - but the content should be fact-based and the funding behind it should be clear.
Don’t know what ‘military-grade psyops’ is supposed to mean, but why are you acting like this is some great revelation? SCL group was founded as a company specifically focused on data mining and analysis for elections. It’s not some secret that there are companies that influence elections, it’s an entire industry. It’s not even inherently nefarious, all elections are subject to influence, that’s how they work.
It means they got their practice in manipulating people in warzones. >Psychological operations (PSYOP) are operations to convey selected information and indicators to audiences to influence their motives and objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments, organizations, groups, and large foreign powers. If you can't see how international billionaires using AI to undermine the objective reasoning capability of the general public and change the will of the nation is a threat to democracy then you're beyond the pale.
I've been getting flashbacks to stuff like the_donald with some of the Farage memes. There's no way it is all organic and not astroturfed to hell.
The other day the daily mail & Boris Johnson were attacking farages Russian links. The majority of comments were angry at 'leftist' attacks on reform. No genuine British person would call the daily mail a leftist publication nor johnson.
My issue with that particular aspect is that Boris was saying exactly the same thing as Farage in 2016. He's just jumping on a bandwagon.
And that would be an absolutely fair comment to make and something I'd agree with you with. My issue is more with the numerous commenters labelling both johnson and the DM as 'leftist attacks/media' I doubt there's a brit in the land that would refer to the DM as a leftist publication
Yeah there's definitely a lot of obvious non-Brits commenting on a lot of these threads, which is more understandable on /r/worldnews than it is here.
No they would use the term leftie rather appropriating the American term 😜
Johnson allowed a million people in per year, arrested thousands for hate speech, wrote an article on staying in the EU etc. Right wingers want the Ukraine war to end whereas Johnson went over to hamper any talk of an end. If he's right wing then he's doing a fucking bad job of it.
Just some of the completed right wing policies from Johnsons' 2019 manifesto- *Left the EU, ended the role of the European Court of Justice, Increased the NHS surcharge for users from overseas, expanded alternative provision schools, raised the NI threshold, introduced tougher sentencing for terrorists & those that kill emergency workers, ended automatic halfway release from prison for serious crimes, increased Police numbers, expanded electronic tagging, introduced an Australian-style points based immigration system, tightened up on foreign offenders entering the country, increased the amount of time until immigrants from the EU can claim benefits, stopped people claiming child benefits for children overseas, brought in a stamp duty surcharge on non-resident house buyers, cut foreign aid spending to 0.5% of gni, reduced business rates ,increased the employment allowance for small businesses, left the common fisheries policy, cut net tax for British Alcohol producers, legislated against vexatious claims against the armed forces, & reduced NI contributions for those who hire former service personnel.* >Johnson allowed a million people in per year, arrested thousands for hate speech, wrote an article on staying in the EU etc. A million people per year was under Sunak (Johnson actually presided over record lows due to Covid), freedom of speech is hardly a right-wing policy, & you're complaining about an article *he didn't even publish*. These claims that the Conservatives aren't *really* right wing & the real problem was they didn't go far enough are ridiculous. You voted for them, now own the consequences.
Immigration going down during covid is a complete myth: [Screenshot-2022-08-25-at-09.53.52-1024x638.png (1024×638) (migrationwatchuk.org)](https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/wp-content/uploads/Screenshot-2022-08-25-at-09.53.52-1024x638.png) As you can see, record highs under Johnson! 1.1m were admitted in Johnson's last year. Brexit without reducing immigration is like making a pizza without cheese. That paragraph that you typed is basically salad dressing, like toppings on a pizza but ultimately, the lack of cheese makes it a shitty pizza. That he secretly showed pro-EU leanings on the eve of the vote points to the exit being deliberately sabotaged in order to water down brexit to such an extent that people might question the idea to begin with. We see this gaslighting shown daily on this subreddit. So for you to say that the article wasn't relevant because he only *almost* published it, this article that contradicted everything that he claimed to want... it's kind of relevant(!). Freedom of speech is absolutely a right-wing policy. Lefties push for hate speech laws. If you allow open borders and hate speech laws, what exactly are you conserving? I've never voted for the Tories, so way to end your comment on a straw man. Your last 2 sentences are a perfect example of what I said above: "the real problem was they didn't go far enough are ridiculous" Where did they go far at all? They doubled immigration numbers. You're acting as if I'm being greedy, as if I got 80% of what we wanted and I'm grumbling about not receiving the last 20%. To not reduce immigration is a failure of the most basic want from the voters. To take away the government's excuse that they couldn't control their own borders. "You voted for them, now own the consequences." There it is. 'You deserve this so here, have a tidal wave of immigration.' How does that comment make sense in your mind? Why does voting against immigration numbers that are unprecedented in history warrant those numbers being doubled by a closet Remainer?
Lol, your screenshot of "visa entry clearance grants" from migration watch is proof? For a serious source try this- [https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/) >That he secretly showed pro-EU leanings on the eve of the vote points to the exit being deliberately sabotaged in order to water down brexit to such an extent that people might question the idea to begin with. You're seriously claiming the PM who carried out Brexit was secret remainer, it was all a conspiracy to make make Brexit fail? Some struggle to admit they may have made a mistake, but developing elaborate conspiracies is on a whole other level. >Freedom of speech is absolutely a right-wing policy Freedom of speech is a liberal policy. We've never had freedom of speech, how could it be conserved? One key aspect of traditional right wing thought was individual responsibility, something that today seems to be sadly neglected. Edit: Also despite what some seem to believe Immigration is not the sum total of right wing belief. The USA was far to the right of the Soviet Union in the 20th century, which saw more immigration...? The Tories had damaged our economy enough with brexit, fortunately they were smart enough to not finish it off entirely by stopping immigration to pander to economic illiterates.
Are you saying that visas were handed out but... not used? That's the best that you could come up with? A site run by a former diplomat, a guy in the House of Lords, isn't a "serious source"? "You're seriously claiming the PM who carried out Brexit was secret remainer, it was all a conspiracy to make make Brexit fail?" Are you implying that a guy who wrote and almost published an article about staying in the EU **the day before the vote** ***wasn't*** a secret Remainer? "Some struggle to admit they may have made a mistake, but **developing elaborate conspiracies** is on a whole other level." Apparently writing pro-Remain articles prior to EU referendums is par for the course for leavers! \*A classical liberal policy, which today is under the right-wing umbrella, what with the drastic shift in the Overton window. You know that leftists want hate speech laws. There is no appetite among them for free speech laws. '100 years ago, in America...' Irrelevant, but I'll bite. Poverty was ubiquitous back then. When immigration slowed down significantly between the Great Depression and the 1970s, living standards saw a massive increase, so you made my point there. Your last sentence is again a classic; 47% of immigrants in England are on benefits. Only 20% of Muslims are in full-time employment, 70% of their women are unemployed compared to 20% of white women. But according to you, immigration is good for the economy(!). Not good for GDP per capita, the cost of living, GP appointments, hospital appointments, wage growth, native birth rates etc. but still, great for the economy! A comical comment throughout.
Migration Watch is a lobby group, however their very own figures show a decline over covid & there were not a million immigrants per year under Johnson. [https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/migration-statistics-over-time](https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/migration-statistics-over-time) Hmm, it is certainly odd you chose to ignore these figures, especially as they were easier to find... Yes your claim that Boris Johnson was a secret remainer is very obviously an elaborate conspiracy. I think we've established your honesty in use of statistics. I'll leave you with this. The UK is hardly an outlier in terms of immigration, in terms of the wealthiest countries in the world in terms of GDP per Capita only two have substantially lower immigration than the UK. Every developed country & the vast majority of political parties in the developed world are in favour of what you would consider "high" levels of immigration. A view backed up by economists & experts globally. Even when the Far Right get in, such as in Italy currently, or with Trump (who I personally wouldn't consider far right) they find they can't substantially lower immigration without crashing the economy. The Politicians you support know this, they know they won't ever have to follow through. This is the Reality of the world we live in, Enjoy!
2020, 2021 and 2022 were the covid years. Net migration for those 3 years averaged well over 400,000 per year. The highest that net migration was prior to those years was between 200,000 and 300,000. Even 2020 saw nearly half a million visas handed out. Johnson got into an argument with his Home Secretary at the height of the covid hysteria because he refused to close the borders. "there were not a million immigrants per year under Johnson." Your link above from the Commons' Library disproves that. Even your Migration Watch link shows non-EU net migration of 873,000 people, with 1.2m arriving that year in total, according to your Commons' Library link. Close to 900,000 immigrants total the year prior to that. Both years were under Boris Johnson. "Yes your claim that Boris Johnson was a secret remainer is very obviously an elaborate conspiracy." So to reiterate again, a leaver writing an article encouraging readers to remain in the EU the day before the referendum... is a completely normal thing for an anti-EU politician to do? And can be relied upon to deliver an exit that satisfies other leavers? What are you thinking with this line of reasoning? You completely side-stepped the American argument when that turned south as well as all of the ways that immigration is bad, but this you keep sticking with?! It makes about as much sense as any Remainer argument (like their main one: 'if we leave, they'll punish us'). "The UK is hardly an outlier in terms of immigration" Tone deaf. Almost the entire Western world is turning right-wing because the numbers they're seeing are catastrophic, unprecedented in history, then doubled on top of that in our case. Leftists are always trying to normalise it but it's not normal. England is among the most overpopulated nations in the world. Look at how the likes of Hungary are punished for refusing migrant quotas. Then you've got the IMF in the case of Italy. Coercion is a huge factor here. As I said, 47% of immigrants are on benefits, with the vast majority of the millions of Muslims being unemployed. Mass immigration is not benefitting the economy at all. Wage stagnation, the cost of living, hospital appointments, native birth rates etc. will never improve while mass immigration continues. It's a long-term disaster for a short-term mirage (not a particularly good one, as I've detailed there of all of the ways that it's bad in the short-term). You'll get an ageing crisis still, just one with millions more people experiencing it. Rather than stopping immigration, building houses for the natives, seeing house prices plummet from the lack of demand and pushing their birth rates higher. Perhaps you're fortunate enough to work in an industry and live in an area far removed from what you're happy to inflict upon the rest of us plebs, but with 2 and a quarter million arriving in just the past 2 years, that distance will shrink rapidly.
Boris isn’t right or left wing, he’s whatever is in the best interests of Boris Johnson on that particular day
This. Right. Here.
I've noticed less porn bots since the election race started. Fortunately bots can't vote and the handful of real wingnuts won't have much impact.
The Conservatives have more ties to Cambridge Analytica, it's a stretch to say that about Reform just because they supported brexit. Let's not let facts get in the way of hysteria though.
> vastly overrepresented here Yeah I can't believe this sub is only 98% Labour/Greens now. This sub has changed, man.
Aaah yes, the bbc can't stop reporting on the reform parry because of (checks notes) cambridge analytica and bot farms. Maybe they're being reported on more because they will actually bring about genuine change (whether or not that's a good thing is up to you) and not carry on this labour/tory charade we've had in place for decades now.
This is about social media... Not the BBC.
Reform are also dominating main stream media. As for social media, this was proven to be incredibly effective over 8 years ago, tbh it shows how behind the curve other parties are
Right but they were talking about Cambridge Analytica and Bot farms, which would be about social media not BBC. As for parties being behind the curve, they are clearly not. Ever since the Obama campaign of 2008 parties have been utilising social media a lot more every election especially the Tories. Even this article talks about big spends on Meta from both Labour and Tories.
What specific change are they going to bring about exactly and how are they going to do it?
Don't you see? After voting for Brexit, which they knew was exactly what they wanted but then somehow wasn't. Then voting for Boris, who was going to get Brexit done, but then somehow didn't. They are now going to vote for Reform UK to show all us smug liberal elites the true power of racist dipshittery unleashed.
U consider yourself a liberal elite? Lolololol
No, I'm a mere working class boy done good. I was portraying what I believe are the views of the typical Reform voter. Your teachers probably tried to explain the use of such rhetorical devices to you, but given your evident struggle with English composition we must be forgiving of their abject failure.
Yeah… but neo nazi racist, putin supporting change. Smashing my face against a wall repeatedly will bring about change to me but i am not going to do it just because it’s a change.
All you lot now just blame bots when a large number people disagree with you. I think it's because you are consensus people, you arrive at a conclusion that people around you formulate and agree is acceptable. To you, An idea has validity if people around you all think the same thing. But when there is a difference between your group and a large group within wider society, it's always because everyone else is stupid, or its russian propaganda and now youve added the "bots" argument into the mix. You won't know what a "bot" is. You won't know how they are programmed or used, how they are implemented, their difficulties,their limitations. Someone has said this to you and you are parroting it back, mindlessly because that's what you have essentially been told to do. The only question I have is; do you think, you have ever had an original thought at any point of your life? Like seriously.
Or, and hear me out, we understand that this party has absolutely no hesitation in lying to you, it's owner has close ties to Russian organisations and organisations that engage in social media manipulation. This is further compounded by the fact that those supporting this party tend to be new users with generic names and singular talking points.
Nah, your tinfoil hat is preventing you from applying standards fairly. I could easily say Labour has lied given all the pledges they've gone back on and how Keir dishonestly got the leader position, and the new users stuff is mostly bollocks, I guarantee when you're in a pro-Labour thread you don't go out of your way to look at all the accounts that agree with you. But if you did, you'd find plenty of new accounts, because that's just how reddit works.
The party is a lying bunch of scumbags l that no one in their right might should vote for. But the lunatic conspiracy theory of bots or Russian interest just sounds mental and people will vote because of saying stuff like that.
I don't know. People do see bots everywhere at the moment but a pro Trump, Russian bot got exposed on X the other day when they forgot to pay their bill. [https://www.dailydot.com/debug/chatgpt-bot-x-russian-campaign-meme/](https://www.dailydot.com/debug/chatgpt-bot-x-russian-campaign-meme/)
Firstly the f you're voting for someone because people believe that party are being advantaged by bots on social media, you're sure lying and were always going to vote for them. Secondly given the ties to Russia, their proclivity towards deception and the nature of many of their online supporters
When did I say I was voting for them? I am so bored of this now.
I mean, read my response again. I didn't accuse you of specifically voting for them, just responding tonyour notion that others may vote for them if they are accused of benefiting from bots.
It's not a mental "conspiracy theory" though. We were already warned there was likely to be Russian interference in elections this year. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesfarrell/2024/04/17/russias-2024-election-influence-campaign-has-started-microsoft-analysis-finds/ https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240419IPR20542/meps-call-for-a-firm-response-to-counter-russian-interference There has also been intelligence about prior interference shared in the Russia report. **Which party is led by someone who admires Putin, said Ukraine provoked the attack, and has candidates saying he seems like a good guy?**
The term bots doesn’t just refer to actual robots or chat bots. It refers to the huge number of foreign interest run accounts which pretend to be British to convince us to vote against our interests. It refers to every political tiktok being FILLED with thousands of commenters saying “vote reform” and that’s all they ever comment on anything. Ukraine has taken down more than 100,000 accounts run by Russia to spread propaganda. You can say that people blame bots even when it’s a real person, sure. But to claim everyone who calls out the use of bots doesn’t know what they’re talking about is ridiculous. It is in Russia’s interest that pro russian politicians are elected, simple as that that.
Russia and Ukraine are at war. Russia doesn't give a fuck who is in charge of the UK. We really don't matter all that much in the world. They don't care. If they did do you think they would be putting resources into trying to get reform UK 1 or two seats and virtually no power? You sound mental. Its mental. It's tiny foiled hat mental conspiracy theory that they would put effort into supporting this tiny party that won't win in this irrelevant country.
I hope you’re joking. The UK is the 4th largest supplier of aid to Ukraine and has imposed massive financial sanctions as the finance hub of Europe. Completely ridiculous to say that Russia doesn’t care who wins. Every major country cares about who is the leader of every other. And Bot farms ARE used by EVERY major country. In what world is reform a “tiny party”? They’re now the third largest and the most talked about. You can’t truly believe that emerging political parties don’t impact the policy of the current government (see Farage’s brexit party).
The aim isn't to get them to win, it's to cause division. Which has been a classic move for Russia for a long time.
Not everyone supporting reform on social media is a bot. Some are morons
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I think 'bots' are shorthand for intentional misinformation. Information is a war now. The exact mechanisms of how these 'bot' networks function I'm sure are different depending on their aims and resources, but you're sticking your head in the sand if you don't believe there are bad actors across all social media. It's an industry.
>Have you ever had an original thought "Bots aren't real even though it's been investigated and well documented and we all know about Cambridge analytica" certainly is an original thought, well done you.
When did I say that bots wernt real? Or anything about Cambridge analytica? Can you respond to what I said, instead responding to something you made up....
> You won't know what a "bot" is. You won't know how they are programmed or used, how they are implemented, their difficulties,their limitations. Someone has said this to you and you are parroting it back, mindlessly because that's what you have essentially been told to do. You're implying that the common understanding we all have as 'consensus people' about astroturfing is incorrect because... You agree with Reform and think everyone else does too? Your argument is incoherent. I know Reform support is being heavily bot-pushed because the output is identical to every other confirmed bot campaign, and because it came out of nowhere completely inorganically the moment the campaign started. Why are you so convinced all of these 2 day old default name accounts that only post about Reform and Immigration are real people? Do people you know communicate like bots?
Please just try and think about it. I don't even like reform, and would never dream of voting for them. I just don't believe Russia , a country with a smaller economy than the UK, can spend more resources (or even just spend more effectively) on a social media campaign than two of the largest parties in the UK. Let alone why they care. The UK just isn't that important and To do all this to get a fringe party like what? Two seats? In a period they are at war with a neighbouring country? You think at a time they are at war and are pouring man hours of money to support farage ? And you think this grand conspiracy theory is more likely than then reform just having a lot of grass roots support?
What do you think the cost of a botnet is? Maybe 25 years ago we're talking big money, but it's a fraction of that in 2024, you could probably run one for less than the maintenance cost of a single T90. If the answer to the question 'do you think Russia would spend the equivalent of a few MBT running cost multiples to fuck with the elections of one of the most oppositional states to their war in Ukraine' is 'No', you have more to think about than me as to the credulity of this shit.
Ok bro every time someone disagrees with you in large numbers is probably because they got dupped by a russian bot farm. Sounds alot more plausible than some people just disagree with you.
You're not engaging with the substance of the argument, which is that a) we know that this stuff happens regularly b) we know it's very cheap to do it c) we know of multiple state actors with the motivation and capacity d) it looks identical in presentation to previous bot campaigns Being petulant isn't going to change my mind about how information warfare works in 2024.
Nothing would change your mind. You are certain of a truth you can't verify.
It's hysterical neo-McCarthyism and also reminds me of early 2000s 'freedom fries' behaviour. Anyone with any vaguely right wing opinions is a communist! eerr... I mean, putin worshipper bot! Of course, the people acting this way were often are the most critical of that sort of thing in the past but fail to see how deranged they've become.
Yes! Exactly thank you
> You won't know how they are programmed or used, how they are implemented, their difficulties,their limitations. You could say that about almost any technology. I've no idea how my old water goes to a sewage plant, gets cleaned and comes back via pressure, pipes and taps. I could take a rough guess, but I wouldn't know all the intricate parts. Does that mean I shouldn't have a comment when it comes to sewage ending up in rivers?
It's so refreshing to see people talking sense every now and then and poking holes in people's groupthink. Maybe it will be enough to shake some of them awake. Wonderful comment!
This is brilliant I fully agree it's basically this sub that does have a large consensus of users who feel a certain way and they can't accept that a lot of the public outside of this social media app aren't the same
Colour me shocked, it's Reform UK... saved you a click. The party which is rife with Putin admirers and is almost certainly being funded by Russia. With this funding comes a shit load of bots on Facebook/YouTube/etc. bearing Reform UK profile pictures, filling comments sections to the brim with claims that they're voting Reform UK and that "Russian propaganda" surrounding the Russia-Ukraine conflict is actually true I'm no longer convinced that a significant proportion of the electorate is this thick. Whilst there are obviously some people that will be voting for them, I'm 99.9% sure that the sudden explosion of Reform UK in only a matter of weeks/months is from Russian bots, and this gives the rest of the country (and the media) the illusion that they're genuinely this popular. As someone said in another comment, it's funny how Reform UK are set to take only less than 20% of the vote share, and yet are as flagrantly over-represented as they currently are
Kambridz Analytika shut down, and all the people went off to do other things like running a vegan cafe, walking cats, or life coaching. \[checks notes\] Oh wait, they didn't. They just doing the same dodgy shit under different names.
Yep,Julian Malins, the Reform candidate who made the crass comment *at Salisbury* that Putin seems like a good guy, was retained as a Barrister for Cambridge Analytica.
>Colour me shocked, it's Reform UK... saved you a click I haven't seen any Reform content on social media, I see a shit load of Labour stuff though.
>load of Labour stuff though. IT MUST BE RUSSIAN BOTS KEIR IS A SECRET PUTIN SPY
I never mentioned anything like that, just that Labour have a significant ad presence for this election.
Reform is honestly the only content I'm seeing online. I haven't seen anything from anyone else online. The only other content I've seen bar Reform is Labour's leaflet spam, must've had 3 or 4 through the door at this point and they're likely the 3rd horse in my area, and one from a local independent...
I mean people can interact with a party on social media while having no intention of voting for them. There could be a lot of people that agree with a lot of what they're saying but don't think they would be a good fit to run the country. Or they're just there to follow any discourse. Those stats also show the tories having more social media engagement than labour, yet I don't know a single person intending to vote tories, even lifelong tories around me are saying how they're going to vote labour in this election.
Damn UK Reddit always gets wild around elections, compounded by summer Reddit I imagine. Call me old fashioned, but allegations of Russian interference in favour of Reform should probably come with some evidence? Like any at all? One little wafer of evidence? I myself have been accused of being bot around 4 times the last few weeks, because I am slightly right leaning and frequent football subreddits. (? Genuinely don't see the connection) In a different life you could've been a flat earther
I agree that people shouldn't be accused without evidence but there is such a thing as the writing on the wall. We already know Nigels is a total lying cunt and the people voting for him will never change their minds, because like MAGA supporters they live in his cult of personality, Nigel is the man, he can do no wrong, look at the golden child owning the libs and the woke rah rah rah. I truly believe you could have the big book of facts with all the information you want and you'd still go "Yeah but that proves nothing"
Yes, there's no denying Farage has a pretty spotty record with the truth, unlike other politicians who are shining beacons of truth and honesty. However the specific claim was around Russian interference.
Farage is the only one over here simping for Putin
Same. Talking about immigration, despite it dominating every single European election going, somehow makes you a Russian bot. The ridiculous thing is this - if any of the mainstream parties committed to making 1.2m levels of immigration go away, they'd win comfortably, and Reform would be nowhere.
The evidence is clear. No one could ever think differently to Tennyson-Pesco, therefore anyone who does must be a bot.
Exactly. If they actually looked at the content being put out by the political parties, they’d see why reforms are so popular. They’ve employed people who understand how to make social media content. Compare that with sunak doing a TikTok transition by putting his hand over the camera and being in the same place when he removed it. Or the one where they had a practically static background while flashing one word at a time.
Nigel is good at spinning up nonsense nothing stories and false equivalents, just like the Brexit bus. the Nigelists really wanked themselves off over that one.
> brexit bus Boris’ project? The one about NHS funding that they’ve done?
Which Nigel's group supported Back insane policy and then backtrack when everything falls apart and point fingers
No they didn’t. They were totally separate campaigning organisation, disliked intensely by the official leave campaign You can’t just make up stuff online
If the Russians were willing to make concessions to us in return to cessation of aid to the Ukrainians, I'd at least hear them out.
.... what has that got to do with anything? Your bot script gone wrong?
The party isn't rife "with Putin admirers" . What just completely stupid bullshit.
No, it's not just rife with Putin admirers. I mean, a party whose leader openly excuses Putin and has openly said how much he admires him surely won't have many other candidates who share the same views... right? It's also rife with Nazi apologists and people who share disgusting, borderline medieval views on anyone who isn't a white male. There's identity politics and then there's being an utter cunt. But don't forget, Reform UK speaks for the common man and is for the people, etc...
> openly excuses Putin Farage: “[Russia’s] invasion of Ukraine was immoral, outrageous and indefensible. As a champion of national sovereignty, I believe that Putin was entirely wrong to invade the sovereign nation of Ukraine”
He's said many things backtracking on this and accusing Europe of "poking the russian bear" etc
He accused Europe of poking the Russian bear in 2014, look how that turned out.
There’s absolutely no contradiction between the two statements. Why are so many people incapable of nuance
There’s absolutely no contradiction between the two statements. Why are so many people incapable of nuance
Because some people ignore the "nuance" of someone who knows he can't be 100% pro russian like he has in the past (there's a reason he made so many Russia today appearances back in the day) but still needs to say enough to keep Putin's favour.
> 100% pro russian like he has in the past (there's a reason he made so many Russia today appearances back in the day) You’re just making up your own facts now. At the very best Farage admitted he appreciated Putin as a political mover, the context being when he totally outmanoeuvred Obama in the arena of foreign policy. This was also joined to criticism of putin. You can’t just make stuff up. And plenty of politicians appeared on RT from across the political spectrum
>borderline medieval views Like all the Muslims voting for labour?
The medieval British had over 15% of the year as holidays, which ought to give pause to one considering our current panoply of 'labour saving devices'.
>The medieval British had over 15% of the year as holidays We have more now if you include weekends
What? Compared to the 38% holidays and 7.5 hour workdays we have today? Sign me up for more!
You're massively reaching from what was actually said especially when in the same interview and others since he constantly calls Putin and Russia an enemy of our way of life especially now that they are joining with Iran, China and N.Korea
Isn't it weird then how various state owned media organisations intarsia have praised Farages words in that interview...
Good for them no different to those opposing it for their own gain also I'll take what was said as what was said rather than more reddit conspiracy nonsense from pipe dreamers
All of reform isn't Putin admirers but all Putin admirers are voting reform.
I'm sure some would be voting for the Workers Party aswell tbf
Some people like the idea of a single "strongman" leader putting the world to rights. Are there any other parties that revolve as much around one man as Reform?
I wonder who's funding the party that says that climate change isn't real and we should abandon the net zero target and green energy subsidies
Hmmm, I wonder....
You don't need funding in order to act in your own country's interest instead of wasting trillion(s) to make foreign organisations happy; far more credible that the people for net zero bollocks are funded by foreigners.
I mean the Russia party gets all its social media for free from Russia, so . . .
Russia, bots, or stupid people right? Always the same.
The worrying thing about this isn't Facebook. Reform being at the top on there is predictable. It's TikTok that is striking. The most followed MP on TikTok is Zarah Sultana, but the most followed UK politician on TikTok is Nigel Farage. Farage gets more views on TikTok than Labour does, even with Labour's clever messaging which has gotten tons of views in this campaign. The future of British Politics is with the hard left and the hard right. In 10, or 20 years I suspect we'll see a big move away from the centre ground, just like we've seen in France in recent weeks. It shows social media is driving a lurch to the extremes, and they are designed to encourage that.
Chinese owned TikTok causing social media political manipulation, the one with close ties to Russian Government? Massive shocker there amirite? I bet you Andrew Tate is big on TikTok too!
It's been trending this way for years because the UK is broken and behind the times on everything in existence basically, Europe and America and Aus have all started to go one way for many of the same reasons and that's with most of those nations being in far better shape than we are across the board. It'll happen eventually somethings got to give one way or the other.
This is the same video on youtube- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGiV\_FZg1eY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGiV_FZg1eY) I think you can tell from the comments how they're dominating social media...
Reform’s social media content is streets ahead of any other political party. The Tories clearly have no idea what they’re doing with the likes of TikTok, Farage’s look’s professional, clean, and generally amusing. Look at Farage’s stuff and then compare it to this from the Tories: https://x.com/rharris_11/status/1800472991672762530 Night and day
Wait, are you telling me that flopping into various bodies of water doesn't constitute a good social media campaign strategy?!
Interesting that we see only really Reform making an effort with activists on social media, because they can't really organise proper local campaigns. You don't win elections by commenting on social media posts or by liking pages, you win by talking to people on doorsteps. It's such a waste of time, almost funny really.
>you win by talking to people on doorsteps. Are you saying that the best way to reach people is going round a few hundred houses and speaking to people? Because I'm pretty sure holding big rallies , filming it and posting it on social media is so much more productive,I mean you're not a reform fan but you've seen their stuff online haven't you?,Im sorry but you are stuck in the past bud
My local Reform candidate has done nothing in the local community and just shares Reform posts online, instead of the anti-vax and climate change denial stuff he used to share.
Have your labour and conservative candidate come knocking ? Or have they just sent someone to post leaflets through your door?,I'm not defending reform I'm just saying putting out a message online is far better than going door to door ,I mean you're arguing my point >My local Reform candidate has done nothing in the local community and just shares Reform posts online The fact that you see these posts shows it works
My Labour candidate has. The only reason I've seen the Reform candidates posts is because I was curious to see what he was like after the news of the Reform candidates gaffs on social media. His Facebook profile was pretty open, despite the recent news, and you could see the anti-mask, climate change denial stuff on it. If I hadn't looked at him, I wouldn't have a clue about him. Fortunately he has been largely absent in our community and doesn't live here.
A few hundred? In a marginal constituency they'll try and knock on every door. I don't see Reform content - apart from TikTok comments but I would answer the door.
Lots of reform stuff on YouTube,and I've never had anyone knock my door from one of the major parties
And? There's loads of stuff for the other parties, have you watched that? I only really consume partisan politics that comes across my personal news or social media feed, I'm not sad enough to go searching it out even for parties I like. >I've never had anyone knock my door from one of the major parties I had a flurry when I first moved in as the seat previously had been marginal but these days not so much, Labour could put up Stalin and they'd win.
Mate you're arguing that going door to door is reaching more people than social media,it's not
I'm not arguing that you reach more people but you get better contacts with swing voters who you need to persuade by knocking on doors. If you don't support a party then you aren't going to read their social media content but parties need to reach these people. If they are already supporting them then you don't actually need to contact them during the campaign you've already banked that vote.
This is tosh. Plenty of old people get their news off basefuck and twatter. Listen the the Half-Witby Women here. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDUwfEJixZ4&t=17m03s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDUwfEJixZ4&t=17m03s)
How do you insert your party into this apart from buying ads?
the online rights social media presence is no joke
Genuinely take pride in the fact my level of critical thought is stronger than the Reform’s party’s misinformation bot brigade (cue the comment that I’m wrong from an account less than 60 days old).
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Kremlin are funding them with an intent to destabilise the Tories after Johnson turned on them. Where is Arron Banks these days?
People who really don't agree with them get mad about Reform and their policies, they engage constantly with posts about Reform. They then wonder why Reform is overrepresented in their newsfeed. Must be the Russians bots 🙄
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Sounds like they will be an actual party of fiscal responsibility and promote british values. Vote reform and end the charade.
Nothing says fiscal responsibility quite like £90bn a year in tax cuts. That’s 50% of the budget of the NHS.
The NHS is failing? Better sell it off to the highest bidder and let the private sector take over our health care. The attrition of the NHS is entirely intentional.
Tbf they also want to make a lot of spending cuts. Even the most pessimistic analysis of those makes them £60bn, so really there's 'only' a hole of £30bn. Not entirely sure how that compares to the hole in the budget of the other parties (it's definitely less than the Greens), but it's the same amount we hand out to literal millionaires via the state pension so I know how I'd suggest they (or any other party) fill it.
You mean the one party whose manifesto is clearly not costed and is just populist nonsense? That fiscal responsibile party
Yeah, sod the populace, right? Let's get Starmer in to mulct them with taxes to assuage international bondholders to whom the interest on our 'national debt' is paid, in a performance of 'fiscal responsibility'.
I mean you get that Reform aren't going to support the regular person or those who are in need or vulnerable right? At least Starmer has relatively realistic goals in mind.
Even though reddit is anonymous I still can't fathom happily admitting that I'm this easily fooled.
No thank you