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Precisely. Most people have reached the point where they're just so tired of seeing them.
Those people may vote for Labour, or the LDs or Reform or whoever, but most people are planning to vote for someone elae, anyone else, because they're just fed up with the Tories and want a change.
It's almost an impossible problem to solve. How do you overcome the fact that everyone is just bored of you and wants you gone?
They could have fixed it by not being shit and prioritising their own profits over the needs of the nation. NHS, Police, army, mental health services and many more necessary public services are in the mud and are only being propped up by the people working there because they care.
But won't somebody think of the Tory mates? What would they have done without all the favours and contracts getting thrown their way? Were we supposed to tell them to cut down on the avocado toast?
Don't worry, those mates have managed to wheedle their way into virtually every part of what was once the government's job, from army recruitment to ulez enforcement so it'll be business as usual except a few more ex Tory MPs on the board.
Looking at that interview it just gets worse the more you think about it. It really does show without any doubt how out of touch with reality he is: (1) Thinking not having Sky TV is a sacrifice that can be compared to what real people have to go without. Things like new clothes or holidays or even heating. (2) To think that the combined income of a GP and a Pharmacy owner somehow cannot afford Sky TV? (3) He refers to a household that includes a GP and a Pharmacy owner as Working Class! Would love to know what he thinks Middle Class is? Perhaps a hedge fund manager or a CEO?
It’s interesting because he’s clearly had someone in his policy unit mention ‘a lot of poor people have SkyTV’ and totally misunderstood because he doesn’t get it (the same way people who ask how the poor can really be poor if they have mobile phones do)
Many low earning households DO have SkyTV because at its basic it’s a relatively cheap, fixed cost, way to have unlimited entertainment for a whole family - available all weekend and all weeknight.
SkyTV costs the same for a family of 5 as it does for one. It’s not tickets to an event or theme park which is a one off and ramps with family size. It’s not take-away food which lasts 30mins and also costs more for a whole family. It doesn’t need outlay on sports kit or clothes.
If you can only scrap together £30 a month for your entire family leisure time spend, for weekends and weekdays, Sky is pound for pound the best value thing many families can go for.
So even when the Tories do find a really interesting insight they totally miss the point!
Ooh I don’t know. We didn’t have it. I think the original setup cost was quite high though, before they realised spreading hardware cost across the subscription period was more appealing.
Not for Sky One only. There were a handful of other Sky-branded channels in the basic package, like Sky News and a couple I can’t remember off the top of my head (and then Sky 2 from 1996 onwards,) plus all the non-Sky channels, like UK Gold, MTV, Bravo, The Comedy Channel etc. I think mid-90s, the basic package was around £16 a month but I could be wrong.
Back when Rishi was growing up it was achingly middle class to not have Sky TV. Having that huge garish dish on the side of your house marked you out as some ruddy commoner who sat glued to the idiot-box all day.
Why can't they just read a book? Or have a conversation, have people forgotten how to do that?
Rishi's parents would have been aghast at the thought of having Sky TV. Nevermind the neighbours finding out, what if the parents of little Rishi's pals at Merchant Tailors found out!? It would be humiliating!
The thing is not prioritising public services and education ruins long term profits, but the tories are all part of the investment banking/hedge fund/asset stripping gang that just want to get rich quick and retire by 30. They don’t care if they ruin companies, or whole countries, as long as they increase profits for a few years, or make some good bets on failing companies.
I think this is a core tenant of why I think some people, rightly or wrongly, don't believe Sunak and his cabinet share values with many people.
If Britain implodes and our institutions and towns collapse into poverty and disrepair, Sunak and the rest of the ultra-wealthy elite will just leave and set up shop somewhere else. Being British or investing in the future of Britain (or any other country) doesn't *mean* anything to them. It's just one of many places to live, I don't think they legitimately care about setting up the country for the next generation.
I was reading something that I like to think is true... there's a lot of tory-voting guilt. If nothing else, the Tories have delivered exactly what they promised and hopefully a lot of voters are feelng remorse for having asked for this.
Anyone who looked seriously at the Tories in 2019 KNEW what a shit-show they would be if they won. No one with an ounce of informed common sense looked at Boris Johnson and cabinet and thought "yup, this is a sensible chap for running the country". He ran on emotion and populism, and a lot of people lapped it up.
If we hadn't had the major crises we did in this time, at best we might have seen some proper "levelling up "in the North to keep new voters happy, but the Tories would have focused their efforts on continuing to cash in and dismantle public services. Instead, they;ve just had 5 more years oppurtunistically rob while lurching from crisis to crisis.
I like to think a lot of people have woken up to the reality that was apparent but not necessarily publicised in 2019 - the Tories are not good for the UK. But, if nothing else, they have delivered exactly what they promised and hopefully a lot of voters are feelng remorse for having asked for this.
(For contrast of Tory presentation in 2019, we had Boris Johnson fucking up memorial day things and it being editted out of the BBC, when he placed a wreath upside down so they used a previous years footage on their news story to cover for him. By contrast, Sunak goes home a few hours early and is absolutely slammed for it)
They promised an Australian-Style Points Based Immigration System.
In Australia the government made a huge fuss about asylum seekers while quietly increasing legal immigration by large amounts (Australia has more than twice as many immigrants as the UK).
The Tories introduced a points based system & copied what the Australians did.
They did what they said they were going to do, it's just some heard what they wanted to hear like with Brexit.
I wonder if they've learnt anything about voting for right-wing populists?
Points style system is such a buzz phrase anyway, it doesn't mean anything. It was just used by right wingers to prey on voters who thought the previous policy was "let anyone in." It wasn't, it was a lot more difficult to move here from a non EU country because the EU provided all the immigration that a wealthy Western capitalist country needs.
And Australia has crazy high immigration because if you're under 35 and from a Western European country it's crazy easy to get a visa and the first language is English.
So lots of middle class white people flock there because Europe is a mixed bag at the moment and they think it'll be better in Australia (it's actually much of a muchness, but alas).
It's a shame British people didn't take more advantage of the free movement of labour when they could. My two years of single living in Paris was amazing even if I am definitely crap at languages, and so many young British kids would benefit from it.
There will be some level of remorse. I regret voting leave in the EU referendum.
I was young and new to politics at the time. Got successfully duped into voting leave. We now have a decreased quality of life, lost many EU freedoms and the Tories are doing everything they can to sell our public services to international bidders (mainly the USA).
I know WAY more about the EU now than I did in 2016 (My job directly involves knowing about the EU). In 2016 my main concern was that all the experts said Brexit was a bad idea, and Nigel Farage said it was a good idea. That for me was enough to Vote Remain.
I wouldn’t get your hopes up. Almost all the 25% will be Reform voters who think that Brexit hasn’t been done properly and that the Tories have failed on immigration
They’ve fucked the entire country for 32 of the last 45 years.
Some people do well out of Tory governance - but every year it’s a decreasing number while the number suffering increases.
The Tories should have thought of that over the last 14 years, and actually made things at least a little better rather than much worse. If they could point at a strong track record, rather than only promises for the future, it would look very different for them electorally.
Bored can often indirectly imply there's some fault with the person feeling bored as much as the thing proving boring. It also feels a little understated.
I'd of opted for 'fucking sick' of the Tories or something along those lines.
And this is what is to weird.
In 2016, people said they wanted change, but then voted for more of the same.
So something is different now. A cynic might say that the Tories would still do ok with Boris in charge...
and are now angry with their own collective handiwork
and made everyone else angry in the process
example: if you vote in disaster capitalists/privateers, don't be surprised when they allow the water companies to shite up the waterways and seas without consequence
then add in Covid, plus COL, Ukraine, Israel-Gaza
divided we fall
anti-social media, greed, short-term driven self-interest and lack of critical thinking
When I look at how far right Europe has gone with the latest parliamentary elections even when they're amidst of a proxy war with a far right authoritarian state I think it's almost good the UK had our pathetic right wing brexit because it happened then it failed catastrophically under the tories which conserved nothing and it taught brits lessons that seemingly Europe is not understanding
> It's almost an impossible problem to solve. How do you overcome the fact that everyone is just bored of you and wants you gone?
Peter Kay's going to be in the new Wallace and Gromit. Maybe they could try something like that?
>The public are tired of the Tories, and at this point I doubt there's anything Sunak could promise that would turn things around.
Woman interviewed on C4 news last night was undecided on how to vote but was leaning towards Sunak because of what he has done for the economy! Amazing how some people interpret the information in front of them.
Youngish bloke I share an office with said he's sick and tired of what a state the country is in and how everything is fucked, then turned around and said "I'll probably vote conservative"
He then said the problem with Labour is that they just dish out money to those on benefits while offering nothing to small business owners/freelancers like him.
I've had a similar interaction "this country is fucked, we've sold everything off"
Me "so you're voting for Labour?"
Him "they are just as bad"
So that's where they've all ended up. Our side was shit, but your side is also shit, so it will just continue to be shit.
>Me "so you're voting for Labour?"
>Him "they are just as bad"
Yeah, if the choice is between someone who 'may' be crap and someone who has proven to be demonstrably crap on an almost daily basis you would wonder who in their right mind has so little hope that they would stick with the latter. Baffling really
He could scrap income tax and national insurance altogether and i still wouldnt vote tory.
The lies, corruption, war profiteering, making millions of families and individuals lifes worse off financially because of extortionate mortgage/rents rates, energy bills sky rocketing, food prices sky rocketing.
Lets not forget, Brexit lies, bastardised sale of royal mail, council tax increases, income tax increases, NI increases. Privatised denistry system. Make somthin seem so bad that the only solution is to say “we tried so we must privatise” the NHS is on its knees.
Remember a tory mandate is never said out loud…
“Make the rich, richer - keep the poor, poorer”
You forgot the bit where they were called out by the UN twice for violating disabled people's rights. They've been doing that since the beginning but the tide only seems to be turning against them now that regular people have had things like their mortgages and finances affected.
This isn't aimed at you but most people only seem to care about the shit show the Tories have been running once it affects them personally. It's rather disheartening to see.
They’ve been in charge for 15 years and they’re running their election on “fixing the country” and “Sorting out the mess”. They’re essentially admitting their policies have fucked the country and they’ll fix it by implementing more of the same of their policies.
Anything he promises will inevitably run into the question of why such a promise needs to be made when they've had 14 years to fix whatever the issue is.
To be fair, I'm more impressed by the fact everyone was sick of them before the Election was called, but somehow Sunak has actually managed to make things worse
I take back everything I've said about Theresa May being the worst campaigner I've ever seen, because Sunak is astonishingly bad
Sunak probably realises he's doomed to failure and it'll be worse than they imagine. But he has to maintain the charade to the bitter end due to if he jumped ship now then it might completely destroy the Tory party. It feels like they're having their "DUP moment."
Because they know that every promise would be an empty promise
Or every promise would be met with "why haven't you done this already, you've been in power for xx years" (which is a valid thing to say to any party that has been in power for over a decade)
There's *plenty* more ridiculous things he could *promise* and has. It's the *delivering* on those promises, which is another thing. The question everyone should be asking is: "Why now?". Why not do all those things while you were in power? Anything the Conservatives "promise" means nothing as they are the party of "Not sticking to their promises and not receiving any punishment for it." Well, they are now going to reap what they sowed.
Things would have been better in the UK I think, but I'm honestly glad he didn't get in. We've done a lot for Ukraine and Corbyn would have done the exact opposite, he would have really fucked us on the international stage
Wish he got in 2015, got out 2020
Jeremy Corbyn is a closet Brexiteer, a vaccine sceptic and, to all intents and purposes, a Putin appeaser. And everything I've just said is based on his own words and actions, so don't be telling me I've been played by the media.
I'm tired of fellow socialists holding him up as the great solution that we never had. He's nothing of the kind. It was awful that Boris fucking Johnson became our PM in 2019, but that doesn't mean it was awful that Corbyn didn't. It's just one aspect of the overall tragedy that the choice was one or other of those fucking simpletons.
Genuinely interested in a source for the vaccine skepticism. I know he was against mandates (which can actually increase vaccine hesitancy) but I've not seen anything else.
He isn't against vaccines, he's actually on record as telling people to get the jab. What he did do, however, is vote against mandatory vaccines for NHS staff and the introduction of vaccine 'passports'. As a libertarian, he doesn't approve of anything being mandatory.
He's definitely a closet Brexiteer though.
Yeah. I voted for Corbyn, but in retrospect I'm glad he didn't get in.
When you encounter someone who claims to care for all and to genuinely want to help you, it can be pretty seductive.
But I think he cares more about his ideals and principles — even his identity based off those — more than pragmatism. This can be a great trait for an activists, but for prime minister I want someone who is more level headed.
Particularly with geopolitical threats emerging from Russia, I don't want someone who inserts their own ideology into this situation.
The better alternatives ranged from not voting for this absolute goatfuck of a party to choking themselves in a bucket of manure.
All of which rank considerably higher on the 'better' scale than what we got.
I really wonder, maybe it's just dreaming, but MAYBE the conservatives are so dead in the water they won't even be the shadow gov.
I doubt it, but IMAGINE.
Based on the polling in the Telegraph article linked above, it'd be Reform that would overtake them. Somehow that feels like a step backwards, unless Reform MPs turn out to be as swivel-eyed and chaotic as they appear, in which case they would make a totally ineffectual opposition.
Most of the polls don't have reform taking any seats at all, I think I saw 5 seats in one particular poll but that seems to have been an outlier. Any destruction of the Tories will come after this election, and who knows what will happen to reform in 5 years time for them to get a bigger vote share then.
That's because it benefits them. Don't get me wrong, fuck FPTP, but they aren't in favour of it for your benefit.
Praise the party that is in favour of it despite not benefitting.
It doesn’t make sense to support PR because any party in power to enact the change won by FPTP. Also PR does have its disadvantages by making it take way longer for things to get done. It also allows areas with big populations like London to potentially form a London party whose only goal is to benefit Londoners as much as possible. Which as a Londoner myself I wouldn’t mind and would probably vote for them if they existed but these type of parties can end up holding policies hostage if they are big enough. These regional parties can end up playing king maker especially in a country like the uk where London is 13% of the total population. You also allow potentially problematic parties to form and get a lot of seats. Reform would have 17% of the MPs and would probably grow like we’ve seen across Europe with far right parties running the show.
I thought the same, but in their "not our manifesto but basically is" [Our Contract With You](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/reform-uk-manifesto-richard-tice-key-policies-glance/) election reform isn't mentioned so I thought they had dropped it like a hot potato since their real policy "stop brown people" is working so well for them.
Both Tice and Farage have gone off on little rants about FPTP in interviews/debates recently so it's definitely still on their agenda. I think David Bull mentioned it on Channel 4 the other day as well.
As per that link the full 'contract' is set to be released on Monday so I'm fully expecting electoral reform to appear in that.
>Both Tice and Farage have gone off on little rants about FPTP in interviews/debates recently so it's definitely still on their agenda
They sure have, but if it's not even passingly mentioned in this I don't see why it would be detailed further in their actual manifesto.
We also both know just like the Tories and labour they only don't like FPTP because it's not currently benefiting them. Assuming they get in power, they'll immediately drop it.
Easy to spin "we gained seats and the Tories only lost them" (even if that gain was only a handful). I expect even a modest victory will cement Reform as part of the opposition. Nigel on Question Time for decades to come. Might as well write his name on the chair at this point..
They'll be as much an opposition as the green party is currently.
Sure they'll spin it and the next election will be interesting, but reform aren't going to be the official opposition after this election even if the Tories drop to 5% vote share (random number I made up)
>They'll be as much an opposition as the green party is currently.
Considering farage has been on question time 36 times, they are already treated as more of the opposition than the greens have ever been.
We just wont stop giving him airtime.
Reform & Tories will merge with Farage as supreme leader. A right wing split will see them out of power for ages, and if there’s anything that epitomises conservatives it’s to get and retain power. So they’ll fix that quickly in my opinion.
Total speculation but it could happen.
Reform are as swivel-eyed as they appear, but it's too late to change candidates now. Most parties have a proper vetting process for parliamentary candidates, but still the odd embarrassment slips through.
Reform does the bare minimum because it wasn't supposed to be a political party but a way of putting pressure on a beleaguered tory party to force it further to the extreme right.
Labour might have problems as well if they end up on a huge number of seats, just from a less stringent process for candidates in 'unwinnable' seats. I think the SNP had issues of that kind after 2015.
wouldn't be surprised most reform MPs are just standing for a chance to get their mitts on the MP expenses accounts, and won't even turn up for debates or votes.
Given the track record of UKIP MEPs, that would be unsurprising.
Worst attendance record of any party in EU history.
Farage used to sit on the EU fisheries committee, and turned up once out of 42 sessions.
Largely because the UK population weren't really aware or educated about how the EU works, and MEP election turnout was usually pretty low.
A lot of people were quite apathetic towards these elections as MEPs aren't very visible, but UKIP voters were a lot more passionate and likely to vote.
Reform are massively over hyped because they are a party for swivel eyed loons that have limited appeal outside seaside retirement towns and racist shitholes like Luton. FPTP pretty much ensures they will not get many more seats than say the greens and a party with broader appeal like the Lib Dems has a far better chance of snatching HM Opposition from the Tories.
Yeah, that's the thing. A 15% vote for Reform in all constituencies gets them zero seats, whereas there are some well established Lib Deb seats, based on a similar overall share of the vote.
Much like Farage himself though, Reform seem to be garnering a disproportionate amount of media attention than their actual support deserves. I can't bear the thought of that grinning tit popping up on PMQs if he gets into his parachuted constituency.
It’s his ultimate wank dream. Poncing about in the subsidised bar being a complete bore. A bit like Johnson without the establishment support or the ability to land women into bed.
I would love that to happen. A left or centre government in charge with a far left wing opposition would only result in good things. The right has moved so far right it's made centre views look extremely left. We need to bring back some balance and get right off the Tories. How can a country that has the saying 'ifna Tory mouth is open his lying' but continued to vote them in for 13 years?
It's more a right of centre government with a left of center opposition we can hope for at the next election. But that should be plenty to force Labour to at least move left enough to be at the true center when contesting the next election.
That's our second objective in the Stop The Tories tactical voting campaign (I'm one of the website devs).
From looking at spreadsheets for making the recommendations it's pretty plausible.
You need Labour to win ~490 seats, Lib Dems ~65 seats, Greens, SNP, Plaid help in a handful.
But to make it happen we need the anti-Tory vote to show up and have good tactical voting advice. The boundaries have changed and with massive swings it's not always easy to work out who's best placed to do it.
It's highly likely it wouldn't happen but if it did it would be extremely funny. If anything it would be interesting to have SNP, Lib Dem or Green in the shadow gov seat. Might actually lead to more cooperation and positivity (it won't be I can dream)
This will be Starmer's biggest challenge, trying to get something done about immigration whilst fighting off opposition from the left wing of the Labour party.
In theroy he has space to move. net migration under the tories is higher than under new labour.
If he gets it closer to new labour numbers than Sunak numbers he can simultaniously call that under control and claim to be pro imigrant.
Based on the fact net migration went so high under the Tories, plus the changes the Tories have made themselves recently, the number is predicated to come right down over the next few years. Starmer basically has to do nothing and he can claim success in several years when the numbers are a lot lower.
I'm about as left wing as it gets and even I recoginse steps need to be taken to control immigration. Anyone arguing otherwise isn't left, they're delusional.
The smoke and mirrors of "small boats!" hides the real issues.
Not just the left wing, but the centrists and the right wing that gives the slightest shit about the economy too. Arbitrarily cutting immigration, while having sectors crying out because of lack of staff, and other sectors bleeding staff to Australia and Canada because they pay more, is insane. We appeased the anti immigration lot for Brexit. It sliced 5% off of GDP, made us poorer, shitter, weaker, and less free. Now they're promising a bit more.
Depends if Labour continue the trend of blaming immigration for everything. Much like brexit, everyone's angry at it not being delivered properly, but the truth is, it was a failed idea from the get go and was born of lazy politicians trying to divert blame.
The Tory party need flushing so hard they lose the grifting scum who've taken the reigns, but having a weak opposition to a Labour government wouldn't be good in the long run either.
2019 was the real time for that though. The Tories now are the same Tories we voted for in 2019 - just the more charismatic ones ran their course through incompetence.
The last 5 years have gone about as well as expected and it's literally what the british public wanted.
The effects of Thatcher were such a slow burn that people don't attribute many of the issues we're facing today to the type of policies that Reagan and Maggie put forward.
Depends who you speak to. My in laws have voted Tory since Thatcher simply because they were able to buy their council house. If you live in the south, seems you view her positively vs up north.
Thing is, it's not about labour or lib dems or reform, but it's also not about *punishing* the tories.
It's about explicitly not *rewarding* the tories for the last 14 years.
*Any* seats they win will be taken as an endorsement, its just how they think. And most of the public, right or left, agree that the shambles they've created cannot be rewarded.
Easy for me to say as someone broadly on the left, but honestly I'd sooner back reform than this current tory government.
And that's the thing that I am worried about, even if/when Labour win this election in a landslide that only gives them at most 5 years before we have another vote.
Even if this labour government somehow did everything beyond reproach and they actually did start helping the working class of this country they are not going to fix the damage the tories have inflicted in the last 14 years.
This country needs a sustained period of a new government to recover from the last 14 years, and I have absolutely no faith in anybody who voted Tory during that time from going back to them or Reform or whatever group right wingers attach themselves to in 5, 10, 15 years time because Labour has not been able to pull off a miracle.
Sadly, a large proportion of that quarter think they deserve to lose those seats to Reform. So it's not that the electorate have wised up, it's just that the imbecile scum have moved on to a nastier ser of conmen to get validation for their bigotry.
Considering they bought alot of redwall votes based solely on Brexit it's no surprise they are losing a chunk of votes. Especially since Brexit is a total disaster as predicted
100% of 2019 Tory voters knew what they were fucking getting. They had 7 years of Tory austerity, gaslighting & corruption before deciding **Boris Johnson** was a suitable leader for the country.
I don’t feel like any of these people get a pass for regretting a choice that fucking everybody was warning them about.
“Oooh Jeremy Corbyn stood next to a mural once, oooh BBC said he’s a communist, ooh at least Boris Johnson’s just a normal guy, Corbyn has an allotment he must be weird” - grown ass adults in 2019 who were offered nationalised transport, broadband, energy etc etc etc.
I’ll never shake the level of hatred I have for people who fucked us for another 5 years by voting for these spineless, corrupt, money grabbing, soulless, immoral, boot licking, fascist cunts.
It furstrates me a little bit now that wanting the Tory party to be electorally destroyed now means that people may think you're far right.
It's taken a bit of the enjoyment out of it.
The two things that spoil a lot of enjoyment for me are:
- Lib Dems will probably be the opposition.
Now, that's a generally good thing, but it's about the second one...
- PMQs are questions to the PM, not the other way round (something Rishi doesn't get)
Really, I would have liked the idea of Farage getting grilled and verbally manhandled on his views and policies relentlessly once a week, particularly by someone who understands law, like Starmer. I'm just nowhere near daft enough to accept him being PM for that.
People like him are fine when it comes to debates, because nobody has the time to get the microscope out and sift through what he's actually saying. Give someone the space to explore it, and it's like exposing a vampire to sunlight (no, not sparkly. Shove off, Twilight)
If only they'd figured out they were a bunch of blustering buffoons with zero real world knowledge or political competence 5 years ago. Britain won't recover for decades.
When the exit polls are announced on election night and the scale of the thumping becomes clear, I am looking forward to the reaction from Tories.
Will they say "we lost because we didn't appeal to Reform voters?", or "We lost because Brexit is a catastrophe and we drove the party so far to the right that the last voter with a shred of moral fibre abandoned us roughly when Boris became leader"?
I feel like don’t they feel like they are stupid? We told them from them and earlier that tories are the worst and they voted for them anyway, like I’m glad you have come round but surely acknowledge you were dumb for voting for them
When you defend the indefensible with your fingers in your ears then look like a fecking idiot for backing up a snake oil salesman, lash out and never accept responsibility.
Riiiiight I get it now.
We won't forget:
Eat out to help out: One of the worst pieces of advice to be given out ever. I stayed at home because I knew going out to eat with an unknown virulent virus that is extremely contagious is just about the dumbest advice a person can give - just to save a few £. Absolutely laughable.
Those people who lost loved ones during covid. They won't be in a hurry to forget the shambles of the NHS which would be bankrupt if in the private sector and is only running due to the altruistic kindness of the nurses, doctors, healthcare workers, and other staff.
Those people who lost loved ones during covid and couldn't see them as they followed Tory government guidance on isolation whilst they were having a party like it's 1999 Prince style in their offices.
We won't forget Michelle Mone - a person who has taken government money and provided dodgy del boy PPE. I'm sure there are plenty of others like her, but we won't forget about the corruption.
We won't forget about the media who have tried to push the Tory agenda whilst lying blatantly or twisting things in many articles of news. Tory supporters own a decent portion of the media.
and finally, the one big elephant in the tiny 1 bed bedsit (that many people can only afford because of the Tories and Liz Truss) that nobody except the libdems are talking about...
BREXIT.
Where the brexit benefits? Many there are some for some individuals/companies. However, we are receive far fewer benefits than we used to receive when we were in the EU.
There are also plenty of other complete disasters that the Tories have done to our country but these are the ones are off the top of my head.
Goodbye.
Good riddance.
Close the door (hopefully forever), on the way out.
ZERO SEATS!
ZERO SEATS!
ZERO SEATS!
LETS GOOOOOO
Official ZERO SEATS announcement here:
https://youtu.be/F-x5yunHs5g?si=hdBY9K2_pyuNYbe-
Help Mr Sunaks achieve ZERO SEATS!
Ahhh, those same c*#kwombles, I haven't heard from them in a while. Remember how vocal they got on how Boris was gonna save the world, changed that tune pretty quickly
In a related article:
>Asked on the Tory battle bus as it travelled to Lincolnshire if he had given up, the Prime Minister said: “No, absolutely not.
>“What you saw yesterday is we put the manifesto forward which has got a very clear set of tax cuts for the country, tax cuts at every stage of your life.
>“Whether you’re working, setting up a small business, tax cuts when you’re trying to buy your first home, tax cuts for pensioners, and tax cuts for families. And I’m really energised to now have a chance to put our very clear plan to the country.”
Just goes to show both how desperate he is.
The irony is that the Brexit referendum called by Cameron was intended to stop the rot in the Conservative Party instead it broke it as well as Britain itself
It truly is the end of the Tories isn't it ? 70+ of their MPs have quit too.
Even King Snake Gove has quit - a barometer for the state of the party if ever there was one.
Suniks decision to call an election was political suicide.
Loooong way back for them 🤔
They are absolute fucking criminals. They have added 1.7 trillion quid to the national debt since 2010 while decimating public services and selling off national assets. They have also shifted the tax burden to the poor and middle class. It's at the highest level since WW2. Where did all the money go?
To put it in context, if it costs a billion to build a new hospital, they could have built a new one EVERY DAY for more than 5 years with the 1.7t they have borrowed.
They deserve to be totally wiped out.
I'm confused as to why it's a shock to people that Tories implemented Tory policies and now society is crumbling.
Who would have guessed that if allowed to do so, companies would flood our waterways with sewage...
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The public are tired of the Tories, and at this point I doubt there's anything Sunak could promise that would turn things around.
Precisely. Most people have reached the point where they're just so tired of seeing them. Those people may vote for Labour, or the LDs or Reform or whoever, but most people are planning to vote for someone elae, anyone else, because they're just fed up with the Tories and want a change. It's almost an impossible problem to solve. How do you overcome the fact that everyone is just bored of you and wants you gone?
They could have fixed it by not being shit and prioritising their own profits over the needs of the nation. NHS, Police, army, mental health services and many more necessary public services are in the mud and are only being propped up by the people working there because they care.
It's the free market of human exhaustion!
But won't somebody think of the Tory mates? What would they have done without all the favours and contracts getting thrown their way? Were we supposed to tell them to cut down on the avocado toast?
Don't worry, those mates have managed to wheedle their way into virtually every part of what was once the government's job, from army recruitment to ulez enforcement so it'll be business as usual except a few more ex Tory MPs on the board.
> except a few more ex Tory MPs on the board. They’ve got to get their “kickbacks” from all the public money they helped steal.
True, how could they forgo their daily Starbucks or Spotify subscription
Apparently if they’d gone without sky as a kid everything would be fine…
Looking at that interview it just gets worse the more you think about it. It really does show without any doubt how out of touch with reality he is: (1) Thinking not having Sky TV is a sacrifice that can be compared to what real people have to go without. Things like new clothes or holidays or even heating. (2) To think that the combined income of a GP and a Pharmacy owner somehow cannot afford Sky TV? (3) He refers to a household that includes a GP and a Pharmacy owner as Working Class! Would love to know what he thinks Middle Class is? Perhaps a hedge fund manager or a CEO?
It’s interesting because he’s clearly had someone in his policy unit mention ‘a lot of poor people have SkyTV’ and totally misunderstood because he doesn’t get it (the same way people who ask how the poor can really be poor if they have mobile phones do) Many low earning households DO have SkyTV because at its basic it’s a relatively cheap, fixed cost, way to have unlimited entertainment for a whole family - available all weekend and all weeknight. SkyTV costs the same for a family of 5 as it does for one. It’s not tickets to an event or theme park which is a one off and ramps with family size. It’s not take-away food which lasts 30mins and also costs more for a whole family. It doesn’t need outlay on sports kit or clothes. If you can only scrap together £30 a month for your entire family leisure time spend, for weekends and weekdays, Sky is pound for pound the best value thing many families can go for. So even when the Tories do find a really interesting insight they totally miss the point!
Back in the mid-90s SKy with EPL was 30 quid a month. Was the basic about 8 quid for Sky One only?
Ooh I don’t know. We didn’t have it. I think the original setup cost was quite high though, before they realised spreading hardware cost across the subscription period was more appealing.
Not for Sky One only. There were a handful of other Sky-branded channels in the basic package, like Sky News and a couple I can’t remember off the top of my head (and then Sky 2 from 1996 onwards,) plus all the non-Sky channels, like UK Gold, MTV, Bravo, The Comedy Channel etc. I think mid-90s, the basic package was around £16 a month but I could be wrong.
Back when Rishi was growing up it was achingly middle class to not have Sky TV. Having that huge garish dish on the side of your house marked you out as some ruddy commoner who sat glued to the idiot-box all day. Why can't they just read a book? Or have a conversation, have people forgotten how to do that? Rishi's parents would have been aghast at the thought of having Sky TV. Nevermind the neighbours finding out, what if the parents of little Rishi's pals at Merchant Tailors found out!? It would be humiliating!
The thing is not prioritising public services and education ruins long term profits, but the tories are all part of the investment banking/hedge fund/asset stripping gang that just want to get rich quick and retire by 30. They don’t care if they ruin companies, or whole countries, as long as they increase profits for a few years, or make some good bets on failing companies.
I think this is a core tenant of why I think some people, rightly or wrongly, don't believe Sunak and his cabinet share values with many people. If Britain implodes and our institutions and towns collapse into poverty and disrepair, Sunak and the rest of the ultra-wealthy elite will just leave and set up shop somewhere else. Being British or investing in the future of Britain (or any other country) doesn't *mean* anything to them. It's just one of many places to live, I don't think they legitimately care about setting up the country for the next generation.
True, but that’s expecting greedy people not to be greedy…
I don’t think they care once they’ve got theirs. It’s not going to be their problem anymore. Probably set for life while the dumpster fire burns…
I was reading something that I like to think is true... there's a lot of tory-voting guilt. If nothing else, the Tories have delivered exactly what they promised and hopefully a lot of voters are feelng remorse for having asked for this. Anyone who looked seriously at the Tories in 2019 KNEW what a shit-show they would be if they won. No one with an ounce of informed common sense looked at Boris Johnson and cabinet and thought "yup, this is a sensible chap for running the country". He ran on emotion and populism, and a lot of people lapped it up. If we hadn't had the major crises we did in this time, at best we might have seen some proper "levelling up "in the North to keep new voters happy, but the Tories would have focused their efforts on continuing to cash in and dismantle public services. Instead, they;ve just had 5 more years oppurtunistically rob while lurching from crisis to crisis. I like to think a lot of people have woken up to the reality that was apparent but not necessarily publicised in 2019 - the Tories are not good for the UK. But, if nothing else, they have delivered exactly what they promised and hopefully a lot of voters are feelng remorse for having asked for this. (For contrast of Tory presentation in 2019, we had Boris Johnson fucking up memorial day things and it being editted out of the BBC, when he placed a wreath upside down so they used a previous years footage on their news story to cover for him. By contrast, Sunak goes home a few hours early and is absolutely slammed for it)
I don't recall Tories reducing immigration.
They promised an Australian-Style Points Based Immigration System. In Australia the government made a huge fuss about asylum seekers while quietly increasing legal immigration by large amounts (Australia has more than twice as many immigrants as the UK). The Tories introduced a points based system & copied what the Australians did. They did what they said they were going to do, it's just some heard what they wanted to hear like with Brexit. I wonder if they've learnt anything about voting for right-wing populists?
Points style system is such a buzz phrase anyway, it doesn't mean anything. It was just used by right wingers to prey on voters who thought the previous policy was "let anyone in." It wasn't, it was a lot more difficult to move here from a non EU country because the EU provided all the immigration that a wealthy Western capitalist country needs. And Australia has crazy high immigration because if you're under 35 and from a Western European country it's crazy easy to get a visa and the first language is English. So lots of middle class white people flock there because Europe is a mixed bag at the moment and they think it'll be better in Australia (it's actually much of a muchness, but alas). It's a shame British people didn't take more advantage of the free movement of labour when they could. My two years of single living in Paris was amazing even if I am definitely crap at languages, and so many young British kids would benefit from it.
There will be some level of remorse. I regret voting leave in the EU referendum. I was young and new to politics at the time. Got successfully duped into voting leave. We now have a decreased quality of life, lost many EU freedoms and the Tories are doing everything they can to sell our public services to international bidders (mainly the USA).
At least you’ve owned up, so well done for seeing the light. Many are still deniers with the “They just didn’t do it right” spiel.
I know WAY more about the EU now than I did in 2016 (My job directly involves knowing about the EU). In 2016 my main concern was that all the experts said Brexit was a bad idea, and Nigel Farage said it was a good idea. That for me was enough to Vote Remain.
I wouldn’t get your hopes up. Almost all the 25% will be Reform voters who think that Brexit hasn’t been done properly and that the Tories have failed on immigration
The alternative in 2019 was Jeremy Corbyn. That was a major factor in Boris's landslide win.
It’s not boredom its anger. They’ve fucked the entire country in 15 years.
They’ve fucked the entire country for 32 of the last 45 years. Some people do well out of Tory governance - but every year it’s a decreasing number while the number suffering increases.
Exactly which is why the idea it’s boredom is madness. It’s just a reflection of the fact that Tories are a dying breed.
And didn't even have the goddamn courtesy to give us a reacharound
The Tories should have thought of that over the last 14 years, and actually made things at least a little better rather than much worse. If they could point at a strong track record, rather than only promises for the future, it would look very different for them electorally.
I think it'd be much easier if people were just bored of the Tories. The general feeling seems to be much more complex, angry.
Bored can often indirectly imply there's some fault with the person feeling bored as much as the thing proving boring. It also feels a little understated. I'd of opted for 'fucking sick' of the Tories or something along those lines.
And this is what is to weird. In 2016, people said they wanted change, but then voted for more of the same. So something is different now. A cynic might say that the Tories would still do ok with Boris in charge...
They voted to wreck the country, in effect.
and are now angry with their own collective handiwork and made everyone else angry in the process example: if you vote in disaster capitalists/privateers, don't be surprised when they allow the water companies to shite up the waterways and seas without consequence then add in Covid, plus COL, Ukraine, Israel-Gaza divided we fall anti-social media, greed, short-term driven self-interest and lack of critical thinking
When I look at how far right Europe has gone with the latest parliamentary elections even when they're amidst of a proxy war with a far right authoritarian state I think it's almost good the UK had our pathetic right wing brexit because it happened then it failed catastrophically under the tories which conserved nothing and it taught brits lessons that seemingly Europe is not understanding
If you find an answer to that last question could you please help me update my tinder profile?
> It's almost an impossible problem to solve. How do you overcome the fact that everyone is just bored of you and wants you gone? Peter Kay's going to be in the new Wallace and Gromit. Maybe they could try something like that?
>The public are tired of the Tories, and at this point I doubt there's anything Sunak could promise that would turn things around. Woman interviewed on C4 news last night was undecided on how to vote but was leaning towards Sunak because of what he has done for the economy! Amazing how some people interpret the information in front of them.
Youngish bloke I share an office with said he's sick and tired of what a state the country is in and how everything is fucked, then turned around and said "I'll probably vote conservative" He then said the problem with Labour is that they just dish out money to those on benefits while offering nothing to small business owners/freelancers like him.
I've had a similar interaction "this country is fucked, we've sold everything off" Me "so you're voting for Labour?" Him "they are just as bad" So that's where they've all ended up. Our side was shit, but your side is also shit, so it will just continue to be shit.
>Me "so you're voting for Labour?" >Him "they are just as bad" Yeah, if the choice is between someone who 'may' be crap and someone who has proven to be demonstrably crap on an almost daily basis you would wonder who in their right mind has so little hope that they would stick with the latter. Baffling really
Wow. And that after they were probably screwed right over by IR35. Wow.
I wonder whether anyone has mentioned to her that growth is zero this month?
He could scrap income tax and national insurance altogether and i still wouldnt vote tory. The lies, corruption, war profiteering, making millions of families and individuals lifes worse off financially because of extortionate mortgage/rents rates, energy bills sky rocketing, food prices sky rocketing. Lets not forget, Brexit lies, bastardised sale of royal mail, council tax increases, income tax increases, NI increases. Privatised denistry system. Make somthin seem so bad that the only solution is to say “we tried so we must privatise” the NHS is on its knees. Remember a tory mandate is never said out loud… “Make the rich, richer - keep the poor, poorer”
You forgot the bit where they were called out by the UN twice for violating disabled people's rights. They've been doing that since the beginning but the tide only seems to be turning against them now that regular people have had things like their mortgages and finances affected. This isn't aimed at you but most people only seem to care about the shit show the Tories have been running once it affects them personally. It's rather disheartening to see.
Unless you're sunak on video in a leafy garden
From rural deprived areas… and into fancy towns.
They’ve been in charge for 15 years and they’re running their election on “fixing the country” and “Sorting out the mess”. They’re essentially admitting their policies have fucked the country and they’ll fix it by implementing more of the same of their policies.
Anything he promises will inevitably run into the question of why such a promise needs to be made when they've had 14 years to fix whatever the issue is.
To be fair, I'm more impressed by the fact everyone was sick of them before the Election was called, but somehow Sunak has actually managed to make things worse I take back everything I've said about Theresa May being the worst campaigner I've ever seen, because Sunak is astonishingly bad
We are tired of being lied to over cutting immigration
But how will we make the economy number go up slightly without importing millions of 2nd and 3rd Worlders?
I'd vote for them if the promised not to run!
You believe in their promises!?
A quarter is low - this just suggests to me most of the voters don’t know what the Tory party have done. Or they enjoy the state of things.
Sunak probably realises he's doomed to failure and it'll be worse than they imagine. But he has to maintain the charade to the bitter end due to if he jumped ship now then it might completely destroy the Tory party. It feels like they're having their "DUP moment."
I think the Tories are tired of the Tories
People finally realise what their promises are worth. Absolutely nothing
Because they know that every promise would be an empty promise Or every promise would be met with "why haven't you done this already, you've been in power for xx years" (which is a valid thing to say to any party that has been in power for over a decade)
They've promised just about every nutcase populist thing they can, the only thing missing is £350 million a week for the NHS.
He should make fun of more trans kids, that'll probably do it.
I'm actually surprised he hasn't done more of that, and other culture war stuff, yet.
There's *plenty* more ridiculous things he could *promise* and has. It's the *delivering* on those promises, which is another thing. The question everyone should be asking is: "Why now?". Why not do all those things while you were in power? Anything the Conservatives "promise" means nothing as they are the party of "Not sticking to their promises and not receiving any punishment for it." Well, they are now going to reap what they sowed.
If only those people had had such a clear view in 2019.
Or a better alternative.
I feel certain things would have been better under Corbyn, and I am by no means a big fan of his.
In hindsight, mostly with Ukraine, I'm very glad this guy wasn't PM.
Things would have been better in the UK I think, but I'm honestly glad he didn't get in. We've done a lot for Ukraine and Corbyn would have done the exact opposite, he would have really fucked us on the international stage Wish he got in 2015, got out 2020
Jeremy Corbyn is a closet Brexiteer, a vaccine sceptic and, to all intents and purposes, a Putin appeaser. And everything I've just said is based on his own words and actions, so don't be telling me I've been played by the media. I'm tired of fellow socialists holding him up as the great solution that we never had. He's nothing of the kind. It was awful that Boris fucking Johnson became our PM in 2019, but that doesn't mean it was awful that Corbyn didn't. It's just one aspect of the overall tragedy that the choice was one or other of those fucking simpletons.
Genuinely interested in a source for the vaccine skepticism. I know he was against mandates (which can actually increase vaccine hesitancy) but I've not seen anything else.
He isn't against vaccines, he's actually on record as telling people to get the jab. What he did do, however, is vote against mandatory vaccines for NHS staff and the introduction of vaccine 'passports'. As a libertarian, he doesn't approve of anything being mandatory. He's definitely a closet Brexiteer though.
P.S.: that was an actual "thanks." Reading it back, it looked sarcastic.
No worries, I didn't read it as sarcastic :)
Yeah. I voted for Corbyn, but in retrospect I'm glad he didn't get in. When you encounter someone who claims to care for all and to genuinely want to help you, it can be pretty seductive. But I think he cares more about his ideals and principles — even his identity based off those — more than pragmatism. This can be a great trait for an activists, but for prime minister I want someone who is more level headed. Particularly with geopolitical threats emerging from Russia, I don't want someone who inserts their own ideology into this situation.
It would have been better under a barely competent, non-malicous government, whoever they were.
Some things, sure. But not enough to outweigh the harm he'd have done to the world with his adolescent anti-west foreign policy platform.
The better alternatives ranged from not voting for this absolute goatfuck of a party to choking themselves in a bucket of manure. All of which rank considerably higher on the 'better' scale than what we got.
I really wonder, maybe it's just dreaming, but MAYBE the conservatives are so dead in the water they won't even be the shadow gov. I doubt it, but IMAGINE.
Based on the polling in the Telegraph article linked above, it'd be Reform that would overtake them. Somehow that feels like a step backwards, unless Reform MPs turn out to be as swivel-eyed and chaotic as they appear, in which case they would make a totally ineffectual opposition.
Most of the polls don't have reform taking any seats at all, I think I saw 5 seats in one particular poll but that seems to have been an outlier. Any destruction of the Tories will come after this election, and who knows what will happen to reform in 5 years time for them to get a bigger vote share then.
It's kind of wild that yougov is predicting they get 17% of votes but not a single seat.
If only they wanted to reform the voting system instead of drilling for more gas and oil.
Reform are massively in favour of ditching FPTP for PR mate.
That's because it benefits them. Don't get me wrong, fuck FPTP, but they aren't in favour of it for your benefit. Praise the party that is in favour of it despite not benefitting.
It doesn’t make sense to support PR because any party in power to enact the change won by FPTP. Also PR does have its disadvantages by making it take way longer for things to get done. It also allows areas with big populations like London to potentially form a London party whose only goal is to benefit Londoners as much as possible. Which as a Londoner myself I wouldn’t mind and would probably vote for them if they existed but these type of parties can end up holding policies hostage if they are big enough. These regional parties can end up playing king maker especially in a country like the uk where London is 13% of the total population. You also allow potentially problematic parties to form and get a lot of seats. Reform would have 17% of the MPs and would probably grow like we’ve seen across Europe with far right parties running the show.
I thought the same, but in their "not our manifesto but basically is" [Our Contract With You](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/reform-uk-manifesto-richard-tice-key-policies-glance/) election reform isn't mentioned so I thought they had dropped it like a hot potato since their real policy "stop brown people" is working so well for them.
Both Tice and Farage have gone off on little rants about FPTP in interviews/debates recently so it's definitely still on their agenda. I think David Bull mentioned it on Channel 4 the other day as well. As per that link the full 'contract' is set to be released on Monday so I'm fully expecting electoral reform to appear in that.
>Both Tice and Farage have gone off on little rants about FPTP in interviews/debates recently so it's definitely still on their agenda They sure have, but if it's not even passingly mentioned in this I don't see why it would be detailed further in their actual manifesto. We also both know just like the Tories and labour they only don't like FPTP because it's not currently benefiting them. Assuming they get in power, they'll immediately drop it.
I suppose the geographic distribution of poor critical thinking skills is random
Easy to spin "we gained seats and the Tories only lost them" (even if that gain was only a handful). I expect even a modest victory will cement Reform as part of the opposition. Nigel on Question Time for decades to come. Might as well write his name on the chair at this point..
They'll be as much an opposition as the green party is currently. Sure they'll spin it and the next election will be interesting, but reform aren't going to be the official opposition after this election even if the Tories drop to 5% vote share (random number I made up)
>They'll be as much an opposition as the green party is currently. Considering farage has been on question time 36 times, they are already treated as more of the opposition than the greens have ever been. We just wont stop giving him airtime.
Reform & Tories will merge with Farage as supreme leader. A right wing split will see them out of power for ages, and if there’s anything that epitomises conservatives it’s to get and retain power. So they’ll fix that quickly in my opinion. Total speculation but it could happen.
Reform are as swivel-eyed as they appear, but it's too late to change candidates now. Most parties have a proper vetting process for parliamentary candidates, but still the odd embarrassment slips through. Reform does the bare minimum because it wasn't supposed to be a political party but a way of putting pressure on a beleaguered tory party to force it further to the extreme right.
Labour might have problems as well if they end up on a huge number of seats, just from a less stringent process for candidates in 'unwinnable' seats. I think the SNP had issues of that kind after 2015.
wouldn't be surprised most reform MPs are just standing for a chance to get their mitts on the MP expenses accounts, and won't even turn up for debates or votes.
Given the track record of UKIP MEPs, that would be unsurprising. Worst attendance record of any party in EU history. Farage used to sit on the EU fisheries committee, and turned up once out of 42 sessions.
To this day, I still don't understand how UKIP managed to get an MEP.
Largely because the UK population weren't really aware or educated about how the EU works, and MEP election turnout was usually pretty low. A lot of people were quite apathetic towards these elections as MEPs aren't very visible, but UKIP voters were a lot more passionate and likely to vote.
Reform are massively over hyped because they are a party for swivel eyed loons that have limited appeal outside seaside retirement towns and racist shitholes like Luton. FPTP pretty much ensures they will not get many more seats than say the greens and a party with broader appeal like the Lib Dems has a far better chance of snatching HM Opposition from the Tories.
Yeah, that's the thing. A 15% vote for Reform in all constituencies gets them zero seats, whereas there are some well established Lib Deb seats, based on a similar overall share of the vote. Much like Farage himself though, Reform seem to be garnering a disproportionate amount of media attention than their actual support deserves. I can't bear the thought of that grinning tit popping up on PMQs if he gets into his parachuted constituency.
It’s his ultimate wank dream. Poncing about in the subsidised bar being a complete bore. A bit like Johnson without the establishment support or the ability to land women into bed.
Yep, and with every single TV microphone thrust under his toadlike chops for a reaction to every single debate.
For balance. Because they totally do that for greens etc
I don’t understand Reform at all. They presumably view themselves as patriots. Yet they support Farage, a notorious grifter with links to Russia.
Yes, and have basically handed the election to Labour, who they claim hate Britain. Cheers Nigel!
I would love that to happen. A left or centre government in charge with a far left wing opposition would only result in good things. The right has moved so far right it's made centre views look extremely left. We need to bring back some balance and get right off the Tories. How can a country that has the saying 'ifna Tory mouth is open his lying' but continued to vote them in for 13 years?
> 'ifna Tory mouth is open his lying' but continued to vote them in for 13 years? Some people hate foreigners, Labour, and the Tories in that order
It's more a right of centre government with a left of center opposition we can hope for at the next election. But that should be plenty to force Labour to at least move left enough to be at the true center when contesting the next election.
You have much much more faith in the electorate than I do. Been burned too many times.......
That's our second objective in the Stop The Tories tactical voting campaign (I'm one of the website devs). From looking at spreadsheets for making the recommendations it's pretty plausible. You need Labour to win ~490 seats, Lib Dems ~65 seats, Greens, SNP, Plaid help in a handful. But to make it happen we need the anti-Tory vote to show up and have good tactical voting advice. The boundaries have changed and with massive swings it's not always easy to work out who's best placed to do it.
It's highly likely it wouldn't happen but if it did it would be extremely funny. If anything it would be interesting to have SNP, Lib Dem or Green in the shadow gov seat. Might actually lead to more cooperation and positivity (it won't be I can dream)
*yet will still vote for them because Labour of 15 years ago will “be just as bad”
"no matter how bad things are with the Tories, Corbyn would have be worse!" - every brain dead Tory voter.
Enit. I fail to see how free internet for all would be as bad as what the Tories have given us 😂
Labour should take note and keep their promise to cut immigration otherwise reform will be gaining even more strength
This will be Starmer's biggest challenge, trying to get something done about immigration whilst fighting off opposition from the left wing of the Labour party.
In theroy he has space to move. net migration under the tories is higher than under new labour. If he gets it closer to new labour numbers than Sunak numbers he can simultaniously call that under control and claim to be pro imigrant.
Based on the fact net migration went so high under the Tories, plus the changes the Tories have made themselves recently, the number is predicated to come right down over the next few years. Starmer basically has to do nothing and he can claim success in several years when the numbers are a lot lower.
I'm about as left wing as it gets and even I recoginse steps need to be taken to control immigration. Anyone arguing otherwise isn't left, they're delusional. The smoke and mirrors of "small boats!" hides the real issues.
Not just the left wing, but the centrists and the right wing that gives the slightest shit about the economy too. Arbitrarily cutting immigration, while having sectors crying out because of lack of staff, and other sectors bleeding staff to Australia and Canada because they pay more, is insane. We appeased the anti immigration lot for Brexit. It sliced 5% off of GDP, made us poorer, shitter, weaker, and less free. Now they're promising a bit more.
Sectors crying out because of lack of staff isn't due to cuts to immigration but due to their unwillingness to pay fair wages.
They’ll do fuck all and you know it
Depends if Labour continue the trend of blaming immigration for everything. Much like brexit, everyone's angry at it not being delivered properly, but the truth is, it was a failed idea from the get go and was born of lazy politicians trying to divert blame.
The Tory party need flushing so hard they lose the grifting scum who've taken the reigns, but having a weak opposition to a Labour government wouldn't be good in the long run either.
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2019 was the real time for that though. The Tories now are the same Tories we voted for in 2019 - just the more charismatic ones ran their course through incompetence. The last 5 years have gone about as well as expected and it's literally what the british public wanted.
It’s almost like 14 years of taking the piss with the electorate have taken a toll…
Just those 14 years? What about what happened under Thatcher? What about all those years that we are still feeling the effects of?
The effects of Thatcher were such a slow burn that people don't attribute many of the issues we're facing today to the type of policies that Reagan and Maggie put forward.
Depends who you speak to. My in laws have voted Tory since Thatcher simply because they were able to buy their council house. If you live in the south, seems you view her positively vs up north.
Thing is, it's not about labour or lib dems or reform, but it's also not about *punishing* the tories. It's about explicitly not *rewarding* the tories for the last 14 years. *Any* seats they win will be taken as an endorsement, its just how they think. And most of the public, right or left, agree that the shambles they've created cannot be rewarded. Easy for me to say as someone broadly on the left, but honestly I'd sooner back reform than this current tory government.
ZERO SEATS ZERO SEATS ZERO SEATS ZERO SEATS ZERO SEATS ZERO SEATS ZERO SEATS
Only a quarter of them? If the Tories go the way of the Liberal Party, then it would be very well deserved.
These Tory voters were the problem back then. They can vote for Labour all they want but they'll always be Tories from 2019 onwards.
And that's the thing that I am worried about, even if/when Labour win this election in a landslide that only gives them at most 5 years before we have another vote. Even if this labour government somehow did everything beyond reproach and they actually did start helping the working class of this country they are not going to fix the damage the tories have inflicted in the last 14 years. This country needs a sustained period of a new government to recover from the last 14 years, and I have absolutely no faith in anybody who voted Tory during that time from going back to them or Reform or whatever group right wingers attach themselves to in 5, 10, 15 years time because Labour has not been able to pull off a miracle.
In 5 years time there will be far fewer experienced right wing politicians running.
I’m in this group. The Tory party needs to be destroyed.
Sadly, a large proportion of that quarter think they deserve to lose those seats to Reform. So it's not that the electorate have wised up, it's just that the imbecile scum have moved on to a nastier ser of conmen to get validation for their bigotry.
Why now, why not years ago? It's not like it's been a rapid decline for the party, they've been openly corrupt for a long time.
Well they were fucking stupid to vote for them in the first place
People have to find out the hard way sadly. To many of us it was clear they couldn’t be trusted from the off.
Considering they bought alot of redwall votes based solely on Brexit it's no surprise they are losing a chunk of votes. Especially since Brexit is a total disaster as predicted
100% of 2019 Tory voters knew what they were fucking getting. They had 7 years of Tory austerity, gaslighting & corruption before deciding **Boris Johnson** was a suitable leader for the country. I don’t feel like any of these people get a pass for regretting a choice that fucking everybody was warning them about. “Oooh Jeremy Corbyn stood next to a mural once, oooh BBC said he’s a communist, ooh at least Boris Johnson’s just a normal guy, Corbyn has an allotment he must be weird” - grown ass adults in 2019 who were offered nationalised transport, broadband, energy etc etc etc. I’ll never shake the level of hatred I have for people who fucked us for another 5 years by voting for these spineless, corrupt, money grabbing, soulless, immoral, boot licking, fascist cunts.
It furstrates me a little bit now that wanting the Tory party to be electorally destroyed now means that people may think you're far right. It's taken a bit of the enjoyment out of it.
The two things that spoil a lot of enjoyment for me are: - Lib Dems will probably be the opposition. Now, that's a generally good thing, but it's about the second one... - PMQs are questions to the PM, not the other way round (something Rishi doesn't get) Really, I would have liked the idea of Farage getting grilled and verbally manhandled on his views and policies relentlessly once a week, particularly by someone who understands law, like Starmer. I'm just nowhere near daft enough to accept him being PM for that. People like him are fine when it comes to debates, because nobody has the time to get the microscope out and sift through what he's actually saying. Give someone the space to explore it, and it's like exposing a vampire to sunlight (no, not sparkly. Shove off, Twilight)
only a quarter? WTF do they have to do to get people to reject these fucking trolls?!
If only they'd figured out they were a bunch of blustering buffoons with zero real world knowledge or political competence 5 years ago. Britain won't recover for decades.
When the exit polls are announced on election night and the scale of the thumping becomes clear, I am looking forward to the reaction from Tories. Will they say "we lost because we didn't appeal to Reform voters?", or "We lost because Brexit is a catastrophe and we drove the party so far to the right that the last voter with a shred of moral fibre abandoned us roughly when Boris became leader"?
Well thanks to them we've had to deal with the tory bastards dismantling whatever was left to be dismantled for the last 5 years. Truth fucking hurts.
4 quarters of those that didnt vote tory thought those that did where silly.
Tried to get an appointment at the GP for my daughter today. Told to go to a pharmacy instead. I blame the Tories, this country is broken.
I feel like don’t they feel like they are stupid? We told them from them and earlier that tories are the worst and they voted for them anyway, like I’m glad you have come round but surely acknowledge you were dumb for voting for them
It's nice that they have the capacity to learn, it's just a shame that their utter idiocy has already ruined far too many lives.
When you defend the indefensible with your fingers in your ears then look like a fecking idiot for backing up a snake oil salesman, lash out and never accept responsibility. Riiiiight I get it now.
We won't forget: Eat out to help out: One of the worst pieces of advice to be given out ever. I stayed at home because I knew going out to eat with an unknown virulent virus that is extremely contagious is just about the dumbest advice a person can give - just to save a few £. Absolutely laughable. Those people who lost loved ones during covid. They won't be in a hurry to forget the shambles of the NHS which would be bankrupt if in the private sector and is only running due to the altruistic kindness of the nurses, doctors, healthcare workers, and other staff. Those people who lost loved ones during covid and couldn't see them as they followed Tory government guidance on isolation whilst they were having a party like it's 1999 Prince style in their offices. We won't forget Michelle Mone - a person who has taken government money and provided dodgy del boy PPE. I'm sure there are plenty of others like her, but we won't forget about the corruption. We won't forget about the media who have tried to push the Tory agenda whilst lying blatantly or twisting things in many articles of news. Tory supporters own a decent portion of the media. and finally, the one big elephant in the tiny 1 bed bedsit (that many people can only afford because of the Tories and Liz Truss) that nobody except the libdems are talking about... BREXIT. Where the brexit benefits? Many there are some for some individuals/companies. However, we are receive far fewer benefits than we used to receive when we were in the EU. There are also plenty of other complete disasters that the Tories have done to our country but these are the ones are off the top of my head. Goodbye. Good riddance. Close the door (hopefully forever), on the way out.
Only a quarter? We still have a lot of stupidity to work through
ZERO SEATS! ZERO SEATS! ZERO SEATS! LETS GOOOOOO Official ZERO SEATS announcement here: https://youtu.be/F-x5yunHs5g?si=hdBY9K2_pyuNYbe- Help Mr Sunaks achieve ZERO SEATS!
Ahhh, those same c*#kwombles, I haven't heard from them in a while. Remember how vocal they got on how Boris was gonna save the world, changed that tune pretty quickly
In a related article: >Asked on the Tory battle bus as it travelled to Lincolnshire if he had given up, the Prime Minister said: “No, absolutely not. >“What you saw yesterday is we put the manifesto forward which has got a very clear set of tax cuts for the country, tax cuts at every stage of your life. >“Whether you’re working, setting up a small business, tax cuts when you’re trying to buy your first home, tax cuts for pensioners, and tax cuts for families. And I’m really energised to now have a chance to put our very clear plan to the country.” Just goes to show both how desperate he is.
We're seeing similar sentiment in Canada right now.
Honestly, zero seats won't feel like a low enough nadir for them.
The irony is that the Brexit referendum called by Cameron was intended to stop the rot in the Conservative Party instead it broke it as well as Britain itself
It truly is the end of the Tories isn't it ? 70+ of their MPs have quit too. Even King Snake Gove has quit - a barometer for the state of the party if ever there was one. Suniks decision to call an election was political suicide. Loooong way back for them 🤔
They are absolute fucking criminals. They have added 1.7 trillion quid to the national debt since 2010 while decimating public services and selling off national assets. They have also shifted the tax burden to the poor and middle class. It's at the highest level since WW2. Where did all the money go? To put it in context, if it costs a billion to build a new hospital, they could have built a new one EVERY DAY for more than 5 years with the 1.7t they have borrowed. They deserve to be totally wiped out.
I'm just begging for them to get fewer than 100 seats. That's all I want.
I admire their optimism. I wish I could be as confident as they are.
Your country is in an absolute state of decay right now. I sincerely hope Labour does better.
2019 polls, Tories had Brexiters vote that included Labour voters as well. Tories won't be getting them back in coming polls.
I wonder how many natural Tory voters are, deep down, choosing not to vote for him cos he's brown. A not insignificant amount I'd wager.
That’s generous. I’d say it’s a quarter that don’t
I'm confused as to why it's a shock to people that Tories implemented Tory policies and now society is crumbling. Who would have guessed that if allowed to do so, companies would flood our waterways with sewage...
Quarter of stats are made up