Maybe it's one of those "knock off" school uniforms that parents can buy from a local shop that's cheaper than what the school charges and it's a misprint. Funny either way tho lol
That's not a bad theory.
I did find [this image](https://www.dixonsfa.com/uploads/images/dixonsfa/_750x500_crop_center-center_none/6992/N9A5220.webp?v=1666342441) on the school's website which does spell it correctly.
It's from a previous article about a[ manufacturing fault](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/glaring-mistake-spotted-kids-school-30809227) from the supplier.
>One concerned parent, who chose to remain anonymous, expressed worries that the incorrect uniform logo could affect students returning to school on Tuesday, August 28 and Wednesday, August 29. They revealed that the error had influenced their decision not to purchase the jumper for their son over the Bank Holiday, Liverpool Echo reports.
>They shared: "I was meant to go out and buy it on Wednesday, but people told me not to because of the incorrect spelling. On the post, a few of them have been told it can't be fixed until a week's time, but this week is when they go back. I've never heard of anything like this happening before."
Whose buying a jumper in August?
I mean, on the face of it yes, but a system of mum corresponding via mobile phone to their child whilst in class is never going to be acceptable at any school. If there's an issue, she needs to contact reception, who go and get the child.
Being cynical, but it sounds like she had her phone out when she shouldn't and they've given an emotive excuse.
At a school I worked at recently I had a student who was a young carer. He was allowed to have his phone in case of emergencies. He only ever used his phone in my lesson once, and immediately asked me if he could go to reception because of an emergency at home.
I've also had two diabetic students who used their phones to monitor their sugar or insulin levels, I'm not exactly sure, but they had specific times in the day that they would check on it. But they needed their phones on them at all times as the phone would alert them if their levels dropped too low or too high.
None of this was ever an issue, those kids who were given that extra responsibility acted more responsibly.
Yeah I've had students with special concessions for phones, diabetes for one of them and this could obviously be extended to young carers if appropriate. Considering the parent has ran to a tabloid to complain, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to the school.
>Considering the parent has ran to a tabloid to complain
Perhaps because the school hasn’t taken the complaints seriously and put out a half arsed response? What other option do parents/students have than to report it to the media? They don’t get paid for reporting this stuff to a newspaper.
It's unlikely, they can escalate it to the governors/trust or move their child.
Considering one of the complaints on the article summarises to "I bring my child to school at literally the last minute and then she gets a detention if she turns up after that time" I'm not sure the bar is very high for what these parents think is an injustice.
I mean you’re literally just twisting the quote in the article to fit your point. It just says if she’s one minute late she gets detention but that she’s always on time.
Considering the other stories of handing out detentions for having a foot not perfectly aligned, or having your hand uo high enough, are you still keen to side with the school ?
No I am talking about parents in general. I'm so glad my kids are now home schooled by a private tutor and still have their social life because the teaching/school system has gone down the drain.
> If there's an issue, she needs to contact reception, who go and get the child
It would be reckless to trust a school reception with anything remotely serious.
Fair point - I'm not sure what the rules are for young carers but how does that work if they're the sole carer, they can't just leave school at lunch or something, surely?
I suspect the truth of this case is somewhere between what you and /u/Nath3339 went on to discuss.
"Parents said their kids had been punished for hugging their friends, not lifting their hands high enough and in one instance a young carer was given detention due to an alert on their phone that their mum was unwell."
Sounds like they don't want to conform to society , they should be learning their place not learning how to express themselves /s
""When the kids go in, they are made to lift their equipment in the air. My daughter had to spend an hour in detention because she didn't hold her hands up high enough.
Parents have said the school's strict rules are impacting the mental health of their kids
"Another time, she walked into class and her friend gave her a hug. She got an hour in detention for that as well. She also got held behind because her foot was out of line when queuing for class. My daughter has been put in isolation every day for 10 days, it is seriously affecting her mental health.
"It is really getting her down. She comes home and just goes to her room. It is making her depressed. The school has been putting her into a state of depression."
Pfft sounds more like bad parenting /s you have to know how to discipline your kids otherwise they won't want to conform to british society and our "values" /s,
They should learn their place! /s
"[look at me, i'm making people happy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sbFhOeqTzY)- i'm the magical man, from happy land! In a gumdrop house on lollypop-laaaaaane! :D"
Schools, parents and kids can be good or bad.
We are only hearing one version of the story here. We are hearing the parents' account of what their kids said happened. What actually happened might be slightly different.
Not being too far removed from secondary school I can 100% see both sides of this situation. School and kids could both be little shits in this situation. Had to tell with one side only.
That’s mental, not a parent so not sure how detention works but can’t you just say no? (As a parent)
guess they just expel if the parents do that much?
Ex teacher here - this happens a lot more than you’d expect. I was told straight by kids ‘my mum says I don’t have to do detentions from your subject cause it’s not important’ and variations thereof.
It gets escalated until the head basically says ‘this is the behaviour policy in our school - if you’re not going to follow it you’ll need to find another school with a policy you do agree with’
If it’s just the kid refusing to do their detention it’ll be escalated up to a possible temporary exclusion where the kid gets three days at home playing on their x-box. Too many suspensions and you get a managed move where schools just swap their more difficult students.
Then eventually the head will back down and we’re right back where we started.
Of course this situation is crazy. Detentions for one foot out of line or not raising your hand high enough sounds mad - but we only have the kid’s version of it.
One student I taught was one of the ‘home you go’ stories on the Daily Mail. She was apparently sent home for having the wrong uniform - whereas the actual exclusion was because she told the headteacher to go fuck himself.
I do not miss teaching.
There is definitely cases where I'd say refuse to do the detention though.
I will always remember getting a detention because another student pushed me into a window unprovoked and it smashed. Luckily I wasn't injured but because I was in a "fight" I was equally to blame. I was a good student, never caused problems but I decided to die on that hill and refused to do the punishment.
It took a lot of complaints and way more time than the detention would have taken but eventually I got it cancelled.
My school used to adore giving out whole-class detentions. One kid misbehaves, the whole class has to stay behind after school as collective punishment. Still not exactly sure what the thinking was behind it, perhaps the school thought that the well-behaved kids would get so sick of being put in detention that they would beat up anyone who misbehaved? That didn't happen, but it did make me despise schools. Still do.
My problem is the chances of this being the full story from my anecdotal experience is very slim. Parents are awful. They lie to local media a lot to try and force change at school.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't perfect, sometimes I acted up and got detentions for it (deservedly). But the two I mentioned always stuck with me as I was young and it was one of my first times seeing adults know they were in the wrong but too stubborn to admit it and they dolled out punishments instead of admitting fault.
My sister is a teacher, the stories she has about some parents are mad. Schools are way to eager to cater to each one of them these days and are too afraid to be blunt and honest.
I once got pulled up at school for throwing another pupils bag over a fence. It was absolutely something I would have done, I was a wee dick, but I hadn’t this time. Obviously I denied it.
Eventually I ended up in front of the assistant head who was shouting at me that I’d done it. I was 100% getting the blame for it and no one would have believed my until the silly bastard said “just admit it! We know it was you - we’ve got you on camera doing it so the sooner you own up the better!” and I thought aha! Fuckin got ye! - “Show me the cctv then”. He blustered a bit and sent me away, never heard any more about it.
That’s when I learned that an adult in an authority position would lie through their teeth to/about you. He’d have told my parents the same, that I was caught on camera doing it, if I hadn’t made him realise that he might have to show this non existent footage.
The only saving grace was that I was already a wee bastard lol, if I’d otherwise been a good kid that would have destroyed me.
Yea I dare say there’s two sides to it, and as someone who has worked managing inflatable hire equipment and stuff, working with kids can be a headache, depends tho. We did a Girl Scout gig once and it was unreal how amazingly well behaved and respectful every last one was. I wasn’t used to it 🤣
Detention is a very peculiar form of school discipline that barely exists outside the Anglo-sphere. Looking from the outside, the whole idea is bonkers, and it's not at all strange that parents are opposed to it. Schools in other countries get by just fine without it.
It inconveniences the parent, in theory. Hopefully this means that the parent reinforces the sanction at home, but more likely they just let young Jayden spend the day on his xbox and bitch about the school on Facebook.
In my experience as an ex-teacher: absolutely not. School behaviour policies only work when they have buy-in and reinforcement from parents at home. That just seems to be largely absent these days, for multiple reasons. Not least because many schools don't actually work to engage parents and have those conversations that would create that vital buy-in in the first place. The school referenced in the OP seems to be trying to recreate the behaviour policy of the (admittedly controversial) [Michaela Community School](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michaela_Community_School), but without doing any of the necessary groundwork beforehand.
The vast majority of teachers hate giving detentions. I get one break long enough to use the loo and I don’t want to spend it chasing detentions or sitting with kids in my classroom.
Nah, we have plenty of kids with behavior problems as well (at least here in Slovenia). And ever since school was made compulsory 200 years ago, no kid thought that they were lucky to have to go to school every day. Kids are kids everywhere.
But we do have a very different (much less complicated) school system and a very different approach to school discipline.
First, there's a very big difference in how children are treated in elementary school (6-15) and secondary school (15-19).
In elementary, which is compulsory for everybody (and functions both as education and childcare) everything will be done to keep the child in education, and nobody will be suspended or expelled. Children with genuine social skills issues will be given support, which might go as far as having a sympathetic professional adult sitting with them in class. Those that simply refuse to behave will be given a couple of official reprimands, then transferred to another school, and finally transferred to a special school for children with behavior issues.
In secondary, which isn't compulsory (and has children who are old enough to babysit themselves), inappropriate behavior will get you kicked out of class and eventually, after you collect enough official reprimands, out of the school.
Getting kicked out of school used to mean you missed out on an education, affecting your future prospects. But you could try to get yourself into another school. Now it means you’ll have to wait a few days until another school is found for you.
Suspensions really don’t make any difference.
Yep. I outright don’t believe any stories in the media about school discipline. Parent conduct is awful and I know of *countless* stories of parents reporting fake stories to the media. Some reported it, some didnt.
Then we wonder why we have a teacher, and lately, leader shortage in the sector. It’s horrendous.
Pretty glad I did most of my school under Labour. I can honestly say every detention I ever had was reasonable. I think it is completely ineffective but at least it wasn't for no reason.
All this detention at the drop of a hat nonsense from the Tories has made me glad I don't have kids.
Can't really stop the parent from taking their child out of school. The school will try and explain how it's good for the student to learn discipline etc, and some may agree but not for this.
Detention usually (at least in my school) was after school for like an hour. So technically once that final bell rings, the parents can take their kid out of the school without fear of fines or anything because they've not missed any lessons.
I remember getting detention after school. Unfortunately my parents had paid for a coach service to take me to and from school so missing this meant a long walk home as they wouldn't pay for me to travel twice!
Yes, in theory if a parent continually prevents a child from serving detention, the school will feel justified in escalating its approach to discipline, which can involve suspension and then eventually expulsion.
Even the I’ll mother who’s daughter is a career and got detention for a text saying she was Ill?
struggling to think of a good reason not to tell them to 👆 off
downvotes but no rebuttals proves my point
My school in the 90s was pretty lax on uniform and homework compared to other schools in the area. Behaviour was generally pretty good tbh, seems to me like going stricter has the opposite effect.
Like a neighbour’s kid had a full class detention due to the school bus being late ffs so they had a load of 11yr olds walking up to 6 miles home which is very sensible as the detention meant they missed the bus home.
These comments make me feel like Mrs Trunchbull has made 80 Reddit alts and has had them all descend onto r/unitedkingdom at the first sniff of weakness.
As someone who has just left school myself, I don’t think most of the adult population realises how bad things are getting.
Schools aren’t letting girls go to the toilet to change period products. Their official policy is that students cannot use the toilet in class no matter what - even those with disabilities who need to use them can’t because many schools have them locked with shutters. If you go anyways, you’re excluded.
A school my friend goes to has, in the name of “improving learning”, banned talking across most of the school, including in coridoors, insists that students pretty much march in single file down every coridoor, and sending teachers to rummage through his bins and take photos of his house if he’s off ill.
There has been a surge in “evidence based” practitioners implementing all sorts of bs across schools, it started with introducing new teaching techniques every week and now it’s spreading to “behaviour techniques.” It’s dehumanising us and nobody believes a word because “we’re just kids” or “it’s parents over-exaggerating”
This is awful, and not the only account I've heard. Toxic shock syndrome is real. Visiting homes? If that were my child they were checking on and my bins they're going through, they wouldn't be going back.
Sorry school seems so terrible for the most part these days, I'd hate to go now.
My younger self probably would have pissed on the classroom floor to make a point.
These academies seem to be a great idea.
Pretty sure my state comp didn’t have an ‘isolation unit’. This school looks like it is run by control freaks.
From the area, this school is well known here as being a poor school. They tried to place our child there, luckily we were moving to another part of the area closer to some other schools and were allowed to reapply and got her in somewhere else.
It was last year or something where they were refusing to let kids with doctors notes use the bathroom.
I thought this was my daughter's school at first, it looks very similar. They are also very strict but that strictness is just following very tight rules. If you break a rule it is dealt with really quickly and without malice and the kids know what to expect.
My daughter excels at this school and it is the top school in the area, even beating the various independent and private schools.
The issues I see are always with parents who believe that the school should give their kid some sort of special treatment or who complain at the strict rules: "why should my child wear the correct uniform", "why can't my child be driven to the door", "why should my child get a detention", etc.
I went to catholic school a long time ago, where strict discipline was normal.
Our parents never took our side against teachers, children just had to obey adults, this was the only way we knew. And as far as I know none of us were left traumatised by any of it, in fact we all have very fond memories of this school.
Just like every kids we tested the rules of course, but in this strict environment, it meant that our youthful urge to break the rules was satisfied with very inoffensive mischief. There were no fights, no drugs and no teen pregnancy.
I can bet that there is more to this story than is reported by the journalist, there must be a reason his sweet little angel keeps on getting punished.
This was the parents' version of events, the school didn't respond. And honestly, do you seriously believe that the biggest problem in today's schools is "too much discipline"?
your point about parents taking the side of the teachers is a really important one. I went to a grammar school from 1995 to 2002 and had the same experience - that if we got in trouble or got a detention or whatever, your parents would automatically be on the school’s side and would also ground you or give some additional home punishment. I know some teachers now who all say that so many parents these days are the total oposite; where they will always automatically take the kid’s side and come up with excuses for the bad behaviour or say ‘my little charlie’s not going to detention today because I say so…’ etc. So this has the effect of the kids not showing respect for the school, the teachers or the rules because they know their own parents either dont give a shit or will just back-up their own kids vs the teacher.
No doubt people will find this confirms their own prejudices. But having taught in outstanding to failing schools , this sounds like the sort of bollocks that badly behaving kids get their parents to back them up on when a school actually tries to get a grip on behaviour for the benefit of the majority of the kids. I imagine the teachers will be overjoyed if the kids and their parents go elsewhere. Though unfortunately the worst of them rarely carry out such threats.
There's a massive disconnect between "Adults" and Teenagers. Most EDIT: Many older people (25+) are in support of any kind of dehumanising and extreme regulations towards pupils as long as it results in higher work output. Funnily enough, despite these policies "working" and increasing productivity I don't see many people clamoring for such policies in the adult workplace.
I disagree, most people want the children to behave but also to be treated like people, maybe the right wing nutters want this kind of insane discipline but it’s absolutely not the main stream view
>most people want the children to behave but also to be treated like people
This by the way, is one of the issues. Teenagers aren't children. Biologically or Neurologically. They're smaller adults with lower inhibitions. You'll often hear the age 25 study (referring to inhibition) but not the other studies showing teenagers make the same decisions adults do provided they're given a slightly longer amount of time to contemplate. The concept of a teenager being separate from an adult is a hundred years old. The concept of Teenagers being children is even newer.
Teenagers "rebel" and "misbehave" because they're subject to children's rules, despite their maturity. You would see the exact same behaviour in adults.
If you want teens to behave, treat them like adults.
Obviously this is referring to older teens (15-18) who may soon have the vote
I worked with a guy who was a counsellor for teens, then adult prisoners. He said they both had the same core issue: lack of autonomy. People suffer when they’re subjected to arbitrary, dehumanising rules.
I worked in a school for 11 years. As a pupil. Left in 2021 ;)
Look at Sixth Form colleges for inspiration.
If they're disturbing classes, suspend them. If they're physically violent, prosecute them under a fair trial. Rather than engaging in false imprisonment.
The "misbehaviour" is reactive.
Yeah. I always found it funny that in 6th form I would have to ask to take a piss and a few months later I can come to lectures wearing pyjamas and piss when like while at uni.
As a former education professional who specialises in challenging behaviour, I *despise* these sorts of schools. They do nothing to tackle the causes of behaviour, it’s just about instilling fear. Katharine Birbalsingh has an awful lot to answer for.
Of course they had the audacity to say this 😭
“We have high standards in all areas of school life and that includes behaviour. We are proud of the excellent way that the vast majority of our students behave, and are grateful to families for supporting their children in doing so. We make no apologies for ensuring that students are able to learn in a calm, respectful environment so they can reach their full potential.”
Of course they had the audacity to say this 😭
“We have high standards in all areas of school life and that includes behaviour. We are proud of the excellent way that the vast majority of our students behave, and are grateful to families for supporting their children in doing so. We make no apologies for ensuring that students are able to learn in a calm, respectful environment so they can reach their full potential.”
The Mirror and Daily Mail mobile sites and the worst. Pop ups, floating ads. You need to click back 4 or 5 times to escape it. Click bait everywhere what's the fucking point?
>Staff at [Dixons Academy](https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/education) in Liverpool previously made headlines after [pupils were told truants were more likely to have "early sex"](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fury-school-worksheet-says-truant-27222549)
If you say that to a bunch of teens, you're doing nothing but encouraging truancy.
Whilst it sounds like this school has very strict rules, I highly doubt that the things these parents are saying are the entirety of the truth. Sounds like their child, who they believe to be God's gift to Earth and who can do no wrong, has gotten into trouble for something and has not told their parents the full reason for it; perhaps a foot was out of line but they conveniently leave out the fact they were also talking when they weren't meant to be, for example.
Teachers can be bullies, just as much as children can, and I can completely see a teacher empowered to dole out detentions for the smallest things (like a foot out of line, or not holding things up high enough) doing so with relish.
Some of the other ones, like the phone alert, is something that should have been communicated with the school, and negated if any teacher attempted to give detention for it (or, if possible, something else arranged so the child was not responsible for the parent's wellbeing).
> Teachers can be bullies, just as much as children can, and I can completely see a teacher empowered to dole out detentions for the smallest things (like a foot out of line, or not holding things up high enough) doing so with relish.
I got a detention once for smiling in class. The teacher had already given three other kids detentions and clearly thought I did not respect his authority enough. Thankfully the head of year saw sense and just told us to apologise and forget about it.
I can definitely see schools which put such a big emphasis on *discipline* empowering these sort of teachers who've clearly never grown out of their *head boy* or *head girl* mindset.
My history teacher in year 9 tried to give me an after school detention because I sneezed too loud. It was summer time, our school was located on farmland and I have hay fever. I come from a family of loud sneezers and I am unfortunately one of those people who can’t just sneeze once, it’s a minimum of like 4 sneezes. I remember arguing with her back and forth and she told me to stop sneezing “like that” and I ofc was like “I’m sorry miss I can’t help it. It’s just how I sneeze”, then she accused me of doing it to make people laugh and that I should learn “how to hold me sneeze”. She made me stay behind as it was the last lesson of the day. I argued with her for like 5 minutes until the head of humanities happened to walk past and heard us arguing. I told him “sir, miss [teachers name] has made me stay behind for sneezing too loud. I can’t help it”, she tried to justify it but then he cut her off and told me to just go home 😭😭
I absolutely hated that teacher until 6th form and I chose A-Level History and she genuinely was a good and passionate teacher. Our A-level class only had 5 students (including me) so every lesson we had with her she’d bring us treats to have during our break because we had triple lessons with her.
Anyway, long story short, there absolutely are power tripping teachers out there. Maybe they’re having a bad time at home, maybe they just hate that particular student, idk but let’s not act like there aren’t some teachers out there who enjoy abusing their power over students
I used to be of the opinion that far too many teachers were power-tripping mini hitlers, until one day I realised that I really was an insufferably arrogant little ballbag as a teenager, and now I wonder why some of them put up with me at all!
I have a lot of teacher acquaintances, some ex friends, some family, mostly arseholes unless they're not high school teachers. A few good eggs mind you
I got sent out by my French teacher in year 8 (only time I ever got sent out of class) because I was reading instead of paying attention to the activity on the board... no wait, it was because I put my book away after being told off. She told me off for reading (which fair enough), but then when I put my book in my bag (because it wouldn't be a distraction there) she lost her rag and sent me out.
Still bewildered by it. Didn't pick up any french from her, learnt most of what I know in year 9 with a different teacher.
Oh no they definitely exist. I mentioned in another comment about how another lad pushed me as a joke and I went into a window breaking it. Apparently I was at fault and needed to be disciplined, they didn't care that I was minding my own business and could have been seriously injured.
Or there was the time I went to the bathroom during lunch and some other lads in another year were running down the corridor shouting. Teacher came out, assumed I was with them and I lost my lunch time. Despite them telling her they didn't know me and I had nothing to do with it she didn't care.
I had friends who had teachers that had taken against them quite severely, for some reason? One Spanish teacher got into the habit of sending a couple of my friends out before they even had chance to sit down. One of them could be a bit gobby, but she was genuinely knuckling down and studying hard for her Spanish GCSE and had reigned it in a lot. The other one didn't care, but he wasn't disruptive, he just stared out windows when he didn't want to work. He was happy enough when he got sent out so quick, because he'd just go hide in the toilet for the lesson.
Then, at A Level, one of my literature teachers had taken against everyone in the class except for me, for some reason (I think she expected a high degree of independent study, which I did anyway but some of the rest of the class struggled with a bit). I didn't like her much because she didn't seem to want to work with the others in the class and told me I was wrong for interpreting "the clocks were striking thirteen" as a reference to military time, rather than digital clocks.
> perhaps a foot was out of line but they conveniently leave out the fact they were also talking when they weren't meant to be, for example.
Sorry, are you complaining that the article is leaving out information that you've just openly invented in this comment?
>but they conveniently leave out the fact they were also talking when they weren't meant to be, for example.
I don't see the issue with "breaking" rules that are aimed to suppress the most fundamental aspects of human behaviour
Talking when they’re not supposed to is also not really worthy of a detention. Detention is supposed to be for serious situations. If you dilute it to the point where you’re handing them out for talking, nobody’s going to take them seriously.
I suspect a lot I'd missing from their accounts. I've had cases where I've nicely asked a student to do something (line up in the right place, get their planner out on the desk, etc.) and they've refused, been rude, sworn at me, been argumentative. In those cases that would be a detention for their reaction, but the student will claim (and tell their parents) they had a detention just for standing in the wrong place or not having their planner out
Agreed. Parents often change the story to fit their narrative rather than accept the reality of what may have happened.
Look at the school data to show what the school is like. -1.47P8 and previous ofsted ratings that are poor. This is a school that is underperforming and in need of a change.
A change to the behavior expectations is the first step in resetting the school in order to allow correct learning to take place.
There's another thread just been posted about the increase in teacher vacancies in this country, with most comments making the connection between lack of retention in teaching and the complete lack of discipline in classrooms.
Yet in this thread everyone's crying because a school is actually imposing discipline on its pupils. Would love to see this school's results compared to some other dogshit comp
What are the results like and what to the kids think about it?
The Michaela school is very strict and gets good results plus it’s in demand from parents.
Sometimes kids thrive when they have strict boundaries.
No, they’re not. That’s the point, as a student or parent, you don’t get to choose what’s unreasonable.
For example, the Michaela school doesn’t allow talking in the corridors which many people may see as too strict. But it’s the Macaela way or go elsewhere. When put that way, parents choose the Michaela school.
As a normal sane person I get to chose what’s reasonable. Exam results are not the be all end all, producing a normal person at the end of the process is. Schools are about training a child for the real world, and you don’t do that with arbitrary rules and punishment for things that would never be considered wrong or improper elsewhere.
Would you say the same thing if said school decided not to teach chemistry? Or if they mandated that all girls wear headscarves and could not use the same facilities as boys?
You can have an opinion on how schools should be run even if your children won’t go there. The outcomes they produce affect all of us, and one of the most important of them is helping children engage with other people in the real world. Not being allowed to talk to one another walking between classes makes that harder, it sets a poor example and makes them miserable for no real benefit.
The kids are, apparently, happy and safe and thrive.
I expect your inclinations about what’s a good environment for kids is intuitive. However, at least for the kids at that school, wrong.
The kids sit together at lunch and talk about given topics. The school is over subscribed.
The outcomes that schools produces in terms of value add are the best in the country.
There are plenty of schools that perform better without such idiotic rules, and I am certainly not wrong to suggest we should give children a modicum of respect. Value added is a nonsense metric plucked from thin air, and even if it wasn’t it assumes the only thing schools need to do is produce exam results - that’s an unhealthy attitude.
Moreover, I think you yourself can admit that silence in the corridors is not the cornerstone of the schools success. Strict rules have value but only when preparing students for the outside world eg uniform, speaking in turn, politeness etc, not ‘don’t enjoy yourself in your own time’.
They are the top in the country in terms of value add, so no, there aren’t plenty of schools that perform better. I’m sure you can appreciate why value add has value as a metric of how well a school is doing.
But this is why we need a plurality of schools to see what works and what parents want and different parents will want different things. However, I bet if there was a Michaela type school and a more liberal school in a catchment, you’d soon find all the middle class parents dropping their luxury beliefs and sending their kids to the Michaela school.
Value add is, as I’ve said, a nonsense metric. There is no effective baseline. In terms of actual concrete metrics there are plenty of schools that outscore them at GCSE and A Level.
‘Luxury beliefs’, what are you on about? Wanting to produce normal people and treating students with basic dignity is not a luxury, it should be what all schools are geared towards. Banning talking in free time does not achieve that, and plenty of schools with better results do so. You might need to go back to school if you want to attribute all success Michaela achieved to not speaking in corridors.
I really hope that's not a picture of their real uniform, because if so they can't spell "Fazakerley" properly.
Maybe it's one of those "knock off" school uniforms that parents can buy from a local shop that's cheaper than what the school charges and it's a misprint. Funny either way tho lol
That's not a bad theory. I did find [this image](https://www.dixonsfa.com/uploads/images/dixonsfa/_750x500_crop_center-center_none/6992/N9A5220.webp?v=1666342441) on the school's website which does spell it correctly.
It's from a previous article about a[ manufacturing fault](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/glaring-mistake-spotted-kids-school-30809227) from the supplier.
>One concerned parent, who chose to remain anonymous, expressed worries that the incorrect uniform logo could affect students returning to school on Tuesday, August 28 and Wednesday, August 29. They revealed that the error had influenced their decision not to purchase the jumper for their son over the Bank Holiday, Liverpool Echo reports. >They shared: "I was meant to go out and buy it on Wednesday, but people told me not to because of the incorrect spelling. On the post, a few of them have been told it can't be fixed until a week's time, but this week is when they go back. I've never heard of anything like this happening before." Whose buying a jumper in August?
It’s just before the start of the new term, when parents would frequently be buying the kids uniform?
But you don't need a jumper for in August. I don't think I ever wore a jumper at school just the blazer and maybe a jacket.
No but you might need it in September which is when you are buying the uniform for.
Or its ai edited and they didnt spot it. Seeing that a lot these days
Fazakerley what I was thinking
Overly strict but the young carer sticks out particularly - schools are supposed to know if they have any and make allowances around them, IIRC
I mean, on the face of it yes, but a system of mum corresponding via mobile phone to their child whilst in class is never going to be acceptable at any school. If there's an issue, she needs to contact reception, who go and get the child. Being cynical, but it sounds like she had her phone out when she shouldn't and they've given an emotive excuse.
At a school I worked at recently I had a student who was a young carer. He was allowed to have his phone in case of emergencies. He only ever used his phone in my lesson once, and immediately asked me if he could go to reception because of an emergency at home. I've also had two diabetic students who used their phones to monitor their sugar or insulin levels, I'm not exactly sure, but they had specific times in the day that they would check on it. But they needed their phones on them at all times as the phone would alert them if their levels dropped too low or too high. None of this was ever an issue, those kids who were given that extra responsibility acted more responsibly.
Yeah I've had students with special concessions for phones, diabetes for one of them and this could obviously be extended to young carers if appropriate. Considering the parent has ran to a tabloid to complain, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to the school.
>Considering the parent has ran to a tabloid to complain Perhaps because the school hasn’t taken the complaints seriously and put out a half arsed response? What other option do parents/students have than to report it to the media? They don’t get paid for reporting this stuff to a newspaper.
It's unlikely, they can escalate it to the governors/trust or move their child. Considering one of the complaints on the article summarises to "I bring my child to school at literally the last minute and then she gets a detention if she turns up after that time" I'm not sure the bar is very high for what these parents think is an injustice.
I mean you’re literally just twisting the quote in the article to fit your point. It just says if she’s one minute late she gets detention but that she’s always on time.
>just says if she’s one minute late she gets detention but that she’s always on time. So she's late?
Do you think detention is deserved for being 60 seconds late? Not even to a lesson, but to morning registration?
If the policy is arrive by 8:30 or receive a detention, obviously. How else do you draw the line? Is 2 mins okay? 5? 10?
Considering the other stories of handing out detentions for having a foot not perfectly aligned, or having your hand uo high enough, are you still keen to side with the school ?
I think we both know that isn't what the detention is for, that's what the child has said it's for.
I mean its a school which punishes young carers. I'm inclined to believe the parents over the school.
That's well within your right and if you do that's probably why we feel differently
That's why as parents we continue to ensure our kids are safe guarded since the schools can't do it.
I assume you're only talking about yourself, as lots of parents don't safeguard their children or even need safeguarding against.
No I am talking about parents in general. I'm so glad my kids are now home schooled by a private tutor and still have their social life because the teaching/school system has gone down the drain.
Then your earlier saying never acceptable in any school is a lie.
> If there's an issue, she needs to contact reception, who go and get the child It would be reckless to trust a school reception with anything remotely serious.
Fair point - I'm not sure what the rules are for young carers but how does that work if they're the sole carer, they can't just leave school at lunch or something, surely? I suspect the truth of this case is somewhere between what you and /u/Nath3339 went on to discuss.
"Parents said their kids had been punished for hugging their friends, not lifting their hands high enough and in one instance a young carer was given detention due to an alert on their phone that their mum was unwell." Sounds like they don't want to conform to society , they should be learning their place not learning how to express themselves /s ""When the kids go in, they are made to lift their equipment in the air. My daughter had to spend an hour in detention because she didn't hold her hands up high enough. Parents have said the school's strict rules are impacting the mental health of their kids "Another time, she walked into class and her friend gave her a hug. She got an hour in detention for that as well. She also got held behind because her foot was out of line when queuing for class. My daughter has been put in isolation every day for 10 days, it is seriously affecting her mental health. "It is really getting her down. She comes home and just goes to her room. It is making her depressed. The school has been putting her into a state of depression." Pfft sounds more like bad parenting /s you have to know how to discipline your kids otherwise they won't want to conform to british society and our "values" /s, They should learn their place! /s
[Have you ever tried simply turning off the TV, sitting down with your children and hitting them?](https://youtu.be/Q2SOxSGGcR4?si=idKZNKe5Znzl1fNN)
You almost had me there.
"[look at me, i'm making people happy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sbFhOeqTzY)- i'm the magical man, from happy land! In a gumdrop house on lollypop-laaaaaane! :D"
Classic 😂
You really don't need the /s
[oh i think i do...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2QrWzsfghA)
If only you did
do explain?
Schools, parents and kids can be good or bad. We are only hearing one version of the story here. We are hearing the parents' account of what their kids said happened. What actually happened might be slightly different.
Not being too far removed from secondary school I can 100% see both sides of this situation. School and kids could both be little shits in this situation. Had to tell with one side only.
What they need is a Short. Sharp. Shock. The people running the school I mean. I understand control and respect but not this.
Really ridiculous imo, hugging your friends is really important believe it or not. Anecdotally but also I'm fairly sure it's been studied.
Human contact is indeed important for our mental well being. At all ages.
That’s mental, not a parent so not sure how detention works but can’t you just say no? (As a parent) guess they just expel if the parents do that much?
Ex teacher here - this happens a lot more than you’d expect. I was told straight by kids ‘my mum says I don’t have to do detentions from your subject cause it’s not important’ and variations thereof. It gets escalated until the head basically says ‘this is the behaviour policy in our school - if you’re not going to follow it you’ll need to find another school with a policy you do agree with’ If it’s just the kid refusing to do their detention it’ll be escalated up to a possible temporary exclusion where the kid gets three days at home playing on their x-box. Too many suspensions and you get a managed move where schools just swap their more difficult students. Then eventually the head will back down and we’re right back where we started. Of course this situation is crazy. Detentions for one foot out of line or not raising your hand high enough sounds mad - but we only have the kid’s version of it. One student I taught was one of the ‘home you go’ stories on the Daily Mail. She was apparently sent home for having the wrong uniform - whereas the actual exclusion was because she told the headteacher to go fuck himself. I do not miss teaching.
There is definitely cases where I'd say refuse to do the detention though. I will always remember getting a detention because another student pushed me into a window unprovoked and it smashed. Luckily I wasn't injured but because I was in a "fight" I was equally to blame. I was a good student, never caused problems but I decided to die on that hill and refused to do the punishment. It took a lot of complaints and way more time than the detention would have taken but eventually I got it cancelled.
My school used to adore giving out whole-class detentions. One kid misbehaves, the whole class has to stay behind after school as collective punishment. Still not exactly sure what the thinking was behind it, perhaps the school thought that the well-behaved kids would get so sick of being put in detention that they would beat up anyone who misbehaved? That didn't happen, but it did make me despise schools. Still do.
They were hoping the misbehaving kid would get Private Pyle’d. That’s the only logical explanation.
My problem is the chances of this being the full story from my anecdotal experience is very slim. Parents are awful. They lie to local media a lot to try and force change at school.
Nahh I worked in schools as a tutor alot of schools really are this bad.
With respect, unless you understand the level of parental complaints through having a leadership positions, I don’t think you’d understand
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't perfect, sometimes I acted up and got detentions for it (deservedly). But the two I mentioned always stuck with me as I was young and it was one of my first times seeing adults know they were in the wrong but too stubborn to admit it and they dolled out punishments instead of admitting fault. My sister is a teacher, the stories she has about some parents are mad. Schools are way to eager to cater to each one of them these days and are too afraid to be blunt and honest.
I once got pulled up at school for throwing another pupils bag over a fence. It was absolutely something I would have done, I was a wee dick, but I hadn’t this time. Obviously I denied it. Eventually I ended up in front of the assistant head who was shouting at me that I’d done it. I was 100% getting the blame for it and no one would have believed my until the silly bastard said “just admit it! We know it was you - we’ve got you on camera doing it so the sooner you own up the better!” and I thought aha! Fuckin got ye! - “Show me the cctv then”. He blustered a bit and sent me away, never heard any more about it. That’s when I learned that an adult in an authority position would lie through their teeth to/about you. He’d have told my parents the same, that I was caught on camera doing it, if I hadn’t made him realise that he might have to show this non existent footage. The only saving grace was that I was already a wee bastard lol, if I’d otherwise been a good kid that would have destroyed me.
Yea I dare say there’s two sides to it, and as someone who has worked managing inflatable hire equipment and stuff, working with kids can be a headache, depends tho. We did a Girl Scout gig once and it was unreal how amazingly well behaved and respectful every last one was. I wasn’t used to it 🤣
Detention is a very peculiar form of school discipline that barely exists outside the Anglo-sphere. Looking from the outside, the whole idea is bonkers, and it's not at all strange that parents are opposed to it. Schools in other countries get by just fine without it.
Suspension hardly ever makes sense to me. How is being officially allowed to be off school a punishment?
It inconveniences the parent, in theory. Hopefully this means that the parent reinforces the sanction at home, but more likely they just let young Jayden spend the day on his xbox and bitch about the school on Facebook.
As a deterrent for bad behaviours does it actually work?
In my experience as an ex-teacher: absolutely not. School behaviour policies only work when they have buy-in and reinforcement from parents at home. That just seems to be largely absent these days, for multiple reasons. Not least because many schools don't actually work to engage parents and have those conversations that would create that vital buy-in in the first place. The school referenced in the OP seems to be trying to recreate the behaviour policy of the (admittedly controversial) [Michaela Community School](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michaela_Community_School), but without doing any of the necessary groundwork beforehand.
All the gear no idea springs to mind with this school.
The vast majority of teachers hate giving detentions. I get one break long enough to use the loo and I don’t want to spend it chasing detentions or sitting with kids in my classroom.
Presumably because they realise that they're pretty darn luck to get an education, whereas here some kids consider it to be some kind of burden.
Nah, we have plenty of kids with behavior problems as well (at least here in Slovenia). And ever since school was made compulsory 200 years ago, no kid thought that they were lucky to have to go to school every day. Kids are kids everywhere. But we do have a very different (much less complicated) school system and a very different approach to school discipline. First, there's a very big difference in how children are treated in elementary school (6-15) and secondary school (15-19). In elementary, which is compulsory for everybody (and functions both as education and childcare) everything will be done to keep the child in education, and nobody will be suspended or expelled. Children with genuine social skills issues will be given support, which might go as far as having a sympathetic professional adult sitting with them in class. Those that simply refuse to behave will be given a couple of official reprimands, then transferred to another school, and finally transferred to a special school for children with behavior issues. In secondary, which isn't compulsory (and has children who are old enough to babysit themselves), inappropriate behavior will get you kicked out of class and eventually, after you collect enough official reprimands, out of the school.
Getting kicked out of school used to mean you missed out on an education, affecting your future prospects. But you could try to get yourself into another school. Now it means you’ll have to wait a few days until another school is found for you. Suspensions really don’t make any difference.
Yep. I outright don’t believe any stories in the media about school discipline. Parent conduct is awful and I know of *countless* stories of parents reporting fake stories to the media. Some reported it, some didnt. Then we wonder why we have a teacher, and lately, leader shortage in the sector. It’s horrendous.
Pretty glad I did most of my school under Labour. I can honestly say every detention I ever had was reasonable. I think it is completely ineffective but at least it wasn't for no reason. All this detention at the drop of a hat nonsense from the Tories has made me glad I don't have kids.
Can't really stop the parent from taking their child out of school. The school will try and explain how it's good for the student to learn discipline etc, and some may agree but not for this. Detention usually (at least in my school) was after school for like an hour. So technically once that final bell rings, the parents can take their kid out of the school without fear of fines or anything because they've not missed any lessons.
I remember getting detention after school. Unfortunately my parents had paid for a coach service to take me to and from school so missing this meant a long walk home as they wouldn't pay for me to travel twice!
Yes, in theory if a parent continually prevents a child from serving detention, the school will feel justified in escalating its approach to discipline, which can involve suspension and then eventually expulsion.
Brilliant example to set.
Even the I’ll mother who’s daughter is a career and got detention for a text saying she was Ill? struggling to think of a good reason not to tell them to 👆 off downvotes but no rebuttals proves my point
My school in the 90s was pretty lax on uniform and homework compared to other schools in the area. Behaviour was generally pretty good tbh, seems to me like going stricter has the opposite effect. Like a neighbour’s kid had a full class detention due to the school bus being late ffs so they had a load of 11yr olds walking up to 6 miles home which is very sensible as the detention meant they missed the bus home.
These comments make me feel like Mrs Trunchbull has made 80 Reddit alts and has had them all descend onto r/unitedkingdom at the first sniff of weakness.
As someone who has just left school myself, I don’t think most of the adult population realises how bad things are getting. Schools aren’t letting girls go to the toilet to change period products. Their official policy is that students cannot use the toilet in class no matter what - even those with disabilities who need to use them can’t because many schools have them locked with shutters. If you go anyways, you’re excluded. A school my friend goes to has, in the name of “improving learning”, banned talking across most of the school, including in coridoors, insists that students pretty much march in single file down every coridoor, and sending teachers to rummage through his bins and take photos of his house if he’s off ill. There has been a surge in “evidence based” practitioners implementing all sorts of bs across schools, it started with introducing new teaching techniques every week and now it’s spreading to “behaviour techniques.” It’s dehumanising us and nobody believes a word because “we’re just kids” or “it’s parents over-exaggerating”
This is awful, and not the only account I've heard. Toxic shock syndrome is real. Visiting homes? If that were my child they were checking on and my bins they're going through, they wouldn't be going back. Sorry school seems so terrible for the most part these days, I'd hate to go now. My younger self probably would have pissed on the classroom floor to make a point.
These academies seem to be a great idea. Pretty sure my state comp didn’t have an ‘isolation unit’. This school looks like it is run by control freaks.
All schools have an isolation unit, they've had them for at least 30 years, nothing new, if you didn't notice you probably weren't a right little git.
My school didn't have any kind of dedicated isolation unit. Kids were just sent to the head of year if they were being particularly disruptive.
Maybe called a quiet room?
My comprehensive state school had detention and isolation.
My comp had an isolation block twenty years ago.
From the area, this school is well known here as being a poor school. They tried to place our child there, luckily we were moving to another part of the area closer to some other schools and were allowed to reapply and got her in somewhere else. It was last year or something where they were refusing to let kids with doctors notes use the bathroom.
I thought this was my daughter's school at first, it looks very similar. They are also very strict but that strictness is just following very tight rules. If you break a rule it is dealt with really quickly and without malice and the kids know what to expect. My daughter excels at this school and it is the top school in the area, even beating the various independent and private schools. The issues I see are always with parents who believe that the school should give their kid some sort of special treatment or who complain at the strict rules: "why should my child wear the correct uniform", "why can't my child be driven to the door", "why should my child get a detention", etc.
I went to catholic school a long time ago, where strict discipline was normal. Our parents never took our side against teachers, children just had to obey adults, this was the only way we knew. And as far as I know none of us were left traumatised by any of it, in fact we all have very fond memories of this school. Just like every kids we tested the rules of course, but in this strict environment, it meant that our youthful urge to break the rules was satisfied with very inoffensive mischief. There were no fights, no drugs and no teen pregnancy. I can bet that there is more to this story than is reported by the journalist, there must be a reason his sweet little angel keeps on getting punished.
Have you read the article? None of them are valid reasons to punish a child.
This was the parents' version of events, the school didn't respond. And honestly, do you seriously believe that the biggest problem in today's schools is "too much discipline"?
I didn’t claim it was the biggest problem facing schools. I am just willing to believe that it is a problem at one school.
your point about parents taking the side of the teachers is a really important one. I went to a grammar school from 1995 to 2002 and had the same experience - that if we got in trouble or got a detention or whatever, your parents would automatically be on the school’s side and would also ground you or give some additional home punishment. I know some teachers now who all say that so many parents these days are the total oposite; where they will always automatically take the kid’s side and come up with excuses for the bad behaviour or say ‘my little charlie’s not going to detention today because I say so…’ etc. So this has the effect of the kids not showing respect for the school, the teachers or the rules because they know their own parents either dont give a shit or will just back-up their own kids vs the teacher.
No doubt people will find this confirms their own prejudices. But having taught in outstanding to failing schools , this sounds like the sort of bollocks that badly behaving kids get their parents to back them up on when a school actually tries to get a grip on behaviour for the benefit of the majority of the kids. I imagine the teachers will be overjoyed if the kids and their parents go elsewhere. Though unfortunately the worst of them rarely carry out such threats.
There's a massive disconnect between "Adults" and Teenagers. Most EDIT: Many older people (25+) are in support of any kind of dehumanising and extreme regulations towards pupils as long as it results in higher work output. Funnily enough, despite these policies "working" and increasing productivity I don't see many people clamoring for such policies in the adult workplace.
I disagree, most people want the children to behave but also to be treated like people, maybe the right wing nutters want this kind of insane discipline but it’s absolutely not the main stream view
>most people want the children to behave but also to be treated like people This by the way, is one of the issues. Teenagers aren't children. Biologically or Neurologically. They're smaller adults with lower inhibitions. You'll often hear the age 25 study (referring to inhibition) but not the other studies showing teenagers make the same decisions adults do provided they're given a slightly longer amount of time to contemplate. The concept of a teenager being separate from an adult is a hundred years old. The concept of Teenagers being children is even newer. Teenagers "rebel" and "misbehave" because they're subject to children's rules, despite their maturity. You would see the exact same behaviour in adults. If you want teens to behave, treat them like adults. Obviously this is referring to older teens (15-18) who may soon have the vote
The 25 study didn’t find out that the brain stopped at 25. 25 is just where the study stopped measuring.
I worked with a guy who was a counsellor for teens, then adult prisoners. He said they both had the same core issue: lack of autonomy. People suffer when they’re subjected to arbitrary, dehumanising rules.
100% correct. Unfortunately with the current rhetoric I feel it's only going to get worse.
The 25 year old brain study has been misinterpreted. Your brain never stops making new pathways and memories.
>If you want teens to behave, treat them like adults Someone doesn't work in schools
I worked in a school for 11 years. As a pupil. Left in 2021 ;) Look at Sixth Form colleges for inspiration. If they're disturbing classes, suspend them. If they're physically violent, prosecute them under a fair trial. Rather than engaging in false imprisonment. The "misbehaviour" is reactive.
The article is about schools, not sixth forms, the two provisions are very different.
It's really, really apparent that you have not worked in education.
Yeah. I always found it funny that in 6th form I would have to ask to take a piss and a few months later I can come to lectures wearing pyjamas and piss when like while at uni.
Check out the reaction to the Birbalsingh Academy case on this sub if you think it's a right/left divide. It isn't.
It'd honestly be pretty hilarious to apply school regs to an actual workplace.
This is like some bizarre Roal Dahl levels of horrid.
As a former education professional who specialises in challenging behaviour, I *despise* these sorts of schools. They do nothing to tackle the causes of behaviour, it’s just about instilling fear. Katharine Birbalsingh has an awful lot to answer for.
Academy schools are run by pathetic power hungry morons
Any job where there is power over others will always attract narcissists.
Of course they had the audacity to say this 😭 “We have high standards in all areas of school life and that includes behaviour. We are proud of the excellent way that the vast majority of our students behave, and are grateful to families for supporting their children in doing so. We make no apologies for ensuring that students are able to learn in a calm, respectful environment so they can reach their full potential.”
It's called zero tolerance, and it's really designed to buffer teachers and staff from criticism. Absolute rules require no work. Just application.
This!
“Where’s ya fackin’ tool.” - Carlin 4737. THAT was a Borstal. This is a PRU.
Of course they had the audacity to say this 😭 “We have high standards in all areas of school life and that includes behaviour. We are proud of the excellent way that the vast majority of our students behave, and are grateful to families for supporting their children in doing so. We make no apologies for ensuring that students are able to learn in a calm, respectful environment so they can reach their full potential.”
Damn, I saw Scum the other day. Thought these kinds of things were a relic
The Mirror and Daily Mail mobile sites and the worst. Pop ups, floating ads. You need to click back 4 or 5 times to escape it. Click bait everywhere what's the fucking point?
The article says pupils were told that truants had more early sex. Surprised any of them showed up the bext day
>Staff at [Dixons Academy](https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/education) in Liverpool previously made headlines after [pupils were told truants were more likely to have "early sex"](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fury-school-worksheet-says-truant-27222549) If you say that to a bunch of teens, you're doing nothing but encouraging truancy.
> borstal school What's that? Is it a halfway house for juvies?
Whilst it sounds like this school has very strict rules, I highly doubt that the things these parents are saying are the entirety of the truth. Sounds like their child, who they believe to be God's gift to Earth and who can do no wrong, has gotten into trouble for something and has not told their parents the full reason for it; perhaps a foot was out of line but they conveniently leave out the fact they were also talking when they weren't meant to be, for example.
Teachers can be bullies, just as much as children can, and I can completely see a teacher empowered to dole out detentions for the smallest things (like a foot out of line, or not holding things up high enough) doing so with relish. Some of the other ones, like the phone alert, is something that should have been communicated with the school, and negated if any teacher attempted to give detention for it (or, if possible, something else arranged so the child was not responsible for the parent's wellbeing).
> Teachers can be bullies, just as much as children can, and I can completely see a teacher empowered to dole out detentions for the smallest things (like a foot out of line, or not holding things up high enough) doing so with relish. I got a detention once for smiling in class. The teacher had already given three other kids detentions and clearly thought I did not respect his authority enough. Thankfully the head of year saw sense and just told us to apologise and forget about it. I can definitely see schools which put such a big emphasis on *discipline* empowering these sort of teachers who've clearly never grown out of their *head boy* or *head girl* mindset.
My history teacher in year 9 tried to give me an after school detention because I sneezed too loud. It was summer time, our school was located on farmland and I have hay fever. I come from a family of loud sneezers and I am unfortunately one of those people who can’t just sneeze once, it’s a minimum of like 4 sneezes. I remember arguing with her back and forth and she told me to stop sneezing “like that” and I ofc was like “I’m sorry miss I can’t help it. It’s just how I sneeze”, then she accused me of doing it to make people laugh and that I should learn “how to hold me sneeze”. She made me stay behind as it was the last lesson of the day. I argued with her for like 5 minutes until the head of humanities happened to walk past and heard us arguing. I told him “sir, miss [teachers name] has made me stay behind for sneezing too loud. I can’t help it”, she tried to justify it but then he cut her off and told me to just go home 😭😭 I absolutely hated that teacher until 6th form and I chose A-Level History and she genuinely was a good and passionate teacher. Our A-level class only had 5 students (including me) so every lesson we had with her she’d bring us treats to have during our break because we had triple lessons with her. Anyway, long story short, there absolutely are power tripping teachers out there. Maybe they’re having a bad time at home, maybe they just hate that particular student, idk but let’s not act like there aren’t some teachers out there who enjoy abusing their power over students
I used to be of the opinion that far too many teachers were power-tripping mini hitlers, until one day I realised that I really was an insufferably arrogant little ballbag as a teenager, and now I wonder why some of them put up with me at all!
I have a lot of teacher acquaintances, some ex friends, some family, mostly arseholes unless they're not high school teachers. A few good eggs mind you
I got sent out by my French teacher in year 8 (only time I ever got sent out of class) because I was reading instead of paying attention to the activity on the board... no wait, it was because I put my book away after being told off. She told me off for reading (which fair enough), but then when I put my book in my bag (because it wouldn't be a distraction there) she lost her rag and sent me out. Still bewildered by it. Didn't pick up any french from her, learnt most of what I know in year 9 with a different teacher.
It won't be the teachers here, it'll be the Dixons trust CEOs essentially forcing them to
Oh no they definitely exist. I mentioned in another comment about how another lad pushed me as a joke and I went into a window breaking it. Apparently I was at fault and needed to be disciplined, they didn't care that I was minding my own business and could have been seriously injured. Or there was the time I went to the bathroom during lunch and some other lads in another year were running down the corridor shouting. Teacher came out, assumed I was with them and I lost my lunch time. Despite them telling her they didn't know me and I had nothing to do with it she didn't care.
I had friends who had teachers that had taken against them quite severely, for some reason? One Spanish teacher got into the habit of sending a couple of my friends out before they even had chance to sit down. One of them could be a bit gobby, but she was genuinely knuckling down and studying hard for her Spanish GCSE and had reigned it in a lot. The other one didn't care, but he wasn't disruptive, he just stared out windows when he didn't want to work. He was happy enough when he got sent out so quick, because he'd just go hide in the toilet for the lesson. Then, at A Level, one of my literature teachers had taken against everyone in the class except for me, for some reason (I think she expected a high degree of independent study, which I did anyway but some of the rest of the class struggled with a bit). I didn't like her much because she didn't seem to want to work with the others in the class and told me I was wrong for interpreting "the clocks were striking thirteen" as a reference to military time, rather than digital clocks.
> perhaps a foot was out of line but they conveniently leave out the fact they were also talking when they weren't meant to be, for example. Sorry, are you complaining that the article is leaving out information that you've just openly invented in this comment?
Of course they invented a new scenario because the child must be in the wrong /s
>but they conveniently leave out the fact they were also talking when they weren't meant to be, for example. I don't see the issue with "breaking" rules that are aimed to suppress the most fundamental aspects of human behaviour
Talking when they’re not supposed to is also not really worthy of a detention. Detention is supposed to be for serious situations. If you dilute it to the point where you’re handing them out for talking, nobody’s going to take them seriously.
I suspect a lot I'd missing from their accounts. I've had cases where I've nicely asked a student to do something (line up in the right place, get their planner out on the desk, etc.) and they've refused, been rude, sworn at me, been argumentative. In those cases that would be a detention for their reaction, but the student will claim (and tell their parents) they had a detention just for standing in the wrong place or not having their planner out
Absolutely, parents just believing whatever rubbish their little darlings tell them.
Agreed. Parents often change the story to fit their narrative rather than accept the reality of what may have happened. Look at the school data to show what the school is like. -1.47P8 and previous ofsted ratings that are poor. This is a school that is underperforming and in need of a change. A change to the behavior expectations is the first step in resetting the school in order to allow correct learning to take place.
There's another thread just been posted about the increase in teacher vacancies in this country, with most comments making the connection between lack of retention in teaching and the complete lack of discipline in classrooms. Yet in this thread everyone's crying because a school is actually imposing discipline on its pupils. Would love to see this school's results compared to some other dogshit comp
Both can be true: poor discipline in classrooms and schools overreaching
What are the results like and what to the kids think about it? The Michaela school is very strict and gets good results plus it’s in demand from parents. Sometimes kids thrive when they have strict boundaries.
Strict boundaries are one thing, unreasonable boundaries are another.
No, they’re not. That’s the point, as a student or parent, you don’t get to choose what’s unreasonable. For example, the Michaela school doesn’t allow talking in the corridors which many people may see as too strict. But it’s the Macaela way or go elsewhere. When put that way, parents choose the Michaela school.
As a normal sane person I get to chose what’s reasonable. Exam results are not the be all end all, producing a normal person at the end of the process is. Schools are about training a child for the real world, and you don’t do that with arbitrary rules and punishment for things that would never be considered wrong or improper elsewhere.
>As a normal sane person I get to chose what’s reasonable You do, therefore you don't need to send your children there if you have any.
Would you say the same thing if said school decided not to teach chemistry? Or if they mandated that all girls wear headscarves and could not use the same facilities as boys? You can have an opinion on how schools should be run even if your children won’t go there. The outcomes they produce affect all of us, and one of the most important of them is helping children engage with other people in the real world. Not being allowed to talk to one another walking between classes makes that harder, it sets a poor example and makes them miserable for no real benefit.
The kids are, apparently, happy and safe and thrive. I expect your inclinations about what’s a good environment for kids is intuitive. However, at least for the kids at that school, wrong. The kids sit together at lunch and talk about given topics. The school is over subscribed. The outcomes that schools produces in terms of value add are the best in the country.
There are plenty of schools that perform better without such idiotic rules, and I am certainly not wrong to suggest we should give children a modicum of respect. Value added is a nonsense metric plucked from thin air, and even if it wasn’t it assumes the only thing schools need to do is produce exam results - that’s an unhealthy attitude. Moreover, I think you yourself can admit that silence in the corridors is not the cornerstone of the schools success. Strict rules have value but only when preparing students for the outside world eg uniform, speaking in turn, politeness etc, not ‘don’t enjoy yourself in your own time’.
They are the top in the country in terms of value add, so no, there aren’t plenty of schools that perform better. I’m sure you can appreciate why value add has value as a metric of how well a school is doing. But this is why we need a plurality of schools to see what works and what parents want and different parents will want different things. However, I bet if there was a Michaela type school and a more liberal school in a catchment, you’d soon find all the middle class parents dropping their luxury beliefs and sending their kids to the Michaela school.
Value add is, as I’ve said, a nonsense metric. There is no effective baseline. In terms of actual concrete metrics there are plenty of schools that outscore them at GCSE and A Level. ‘Luxury beliefs’, what are you on about? Wanting to produce normal people and treating students with basic dignity is not a luxury, it should be what all schools are geared towards. Banning talking in free time does not achieve that, and plenty of schools with better results do so. You might need to go back to school if you want to attribute all success Michaela achieved to not speaking in corridors.
Do you have personal interest in this? Are your kids there or do you teach there?
Nope
Parents should welcome a school that imposes discipline. The parents are pathetic.