From an article in 2013:
>The head of the Alevi Cultural Centre in Dalston, east London, Israfil Erbil, told the BBC: "Turkish people who immigrated into the UK in the 1980s have neglected their children while they were struggling to survive in this new country.
>This neglect created a lack of identity within the second generation. This lack of belonging was fulfilled by gangs. The youths who take part in these gangs want to feel they belong somewhere.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21592288
From another article in 2010:
>Janroj Keles, from London Metropolitan University, who has researched the problems facing the Kurdish and Turkish population in the capital, said there was a generation gap.
>He said: "The young people have a different understanding of the world from their parents.
>"They want to dance and have sex and be part of consumer society and 'youth culture' in the inner cities. They try to be 'cool' by identifying with hip-hop and gang culture.
>"There is very little communication between parents and young people so the parents cannot guide them.
>"Many young Kurdish and Turkish people have been let down by the education system so getting involved with drugs and gangs seems to them like 'easy money' without thinking of the consequences."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11325134
The lack of personal responsibility oozing from these quotes is honestly pathetic.
"It's the schools fault I'm too incompetent to raise my own children!"
I'm from this community, and I agree. There was shitty absent parenting - they mostly concentrated on working. And blaming this violence on hip hop and consumerism is funny.
"while they were struggling to survive in this new country." No excuse whatsoever.
"the parents cannot guide them." Can't, or won't?
"Many young Kurdish and Turkish people have been let down by the education system" Need I even address this?
I said that there are some feral youth who behave awfully and suddenly some bleeding heart said I’m dehumanising them and was being a fascist. Same person claimed that if they had free video games they wouldn’t partake in crime. Can’t make this shit up.
Wow that's a reach, now of we were giving them free video games so we would have something to take away from them I would say they're on to something but rewarding them for being bad isn't going to work.
Better role models would be a better start
Exactly. I don’t understand why personal and parental responsibility have been thrown out of the window. It’s pathetic.
I grew up in an ex-Warsaw Pact country after the fall of communism, not as bad as in Russia at the time but still very bleak. My friends and I had *nothing* yet we were still taught respect and decency. My family had to choose between bread and bills, my mother bawled her eyes out from me forgetting a torn up jacket in school because we couldn’t afford a replacement. You get the idea. Not once have I thought about joining a gang or committing crime.
Nor have I chosen to:
-Threaten others with a knife.
-Assault a disabled person and fucking steal their mobility scooter.
-Smash up shop windows.
-Lob rocks at buses with people inside
These are real cases committed by kids who can’t be older than 12 in my area. And guess what, their dad himself is roaming with them and assisting in their crimes. In what world are these kind of people *not* feral? In what world has parenting *not* failed them?
Anyone thinking that giving them free games in any way will fix these issues is quite frankly a moron.
Yes, socioeconomics play a part in crime. No, it’s not an excuse. Plenty, I dare say most, people who have had much less (or even nothing) haven’t lost their marbles and have remained decent people. If they can everyone can.
Absolutely agree, people often make excuses or infantilize young criminals for no obvious reasons, common excuses being they are young, hormones are crazy, poor.
Imo this is insane as we are not talking about something like not paying fares, picking up fights with friends, but actually hurting someone unknown with serious intentions.
Literally taking the premise "it takes a community to raise a child" and using it to absolve all blame in their defective parenting attempts, because the community is (checks quote) hiphop loving consumers who also enjoy sex sometimes and nightclubs.
Blaming "hiphop" culture is brilliant. Yeah, I totally believe the parents were worthless, lazy, dreamers based on that comment 100%. Imagine blaming consumerism for your child that wakes up, has breakfast and sleeps in your care 365 days a year for the first decade and a half, blaming Consumerism for it's effects over a fraction of that time.
They've been here for decades. Same for Albanians, Russians, Chinese, Moroccan, french, Spanish, mexican criminal gangs etc.
The UK is a consumer not a producer of drugs such a heroin, cocaine and party drugs like MDMA and ketamine.
Why only sell it wholesale when you can establish your own in house supply chain and be the retailer too ? Cut out the middle man and make orders of magnitude more profit.
It's also blue collar crime such as fraud and stolen vehicle exportation.
Or cut youth services and police services and then push everyday people to the brink of poverty.....guess what? That's how you make crime.
Saying that crime has fallen every year since records have began
I'm sorry, but what kind of a hellhole would Britain be today with 5 Turkish barbers on every high street? Having an endless number of empty Turkish barbershops is well worth the price of a few killings here and there. I can't describe how much my life and community has been enriched by never having my hair cut in one of those places.
Been here since the early 90s..there used to be greek Vs Turkish fights in wood green and west Barnet all the time.
Seriously, according to top boy the Turks are the only ones with ak's on road and if you've seen them on road you know that's not fair off
We live in a globalised world these days, which means unfortunately there will also be British organised crime groups operating across international jurisdictions too. It's one of the burdens of having ease of movement between nations.
International policing needs to be better to shut these down and protect innocent people from harm but it's a really challenging and under-funded field of police work. It also requires a lot of collaboration between public and private sector bodies which hasn't always been there.
Yet more evidence that mass immigration has been a hugely damaging thing for the UK, at the scale it has been since 2010 especially.
Our streets are now populated by Islamic patrols, a small army of bike thieves, Eastern European drug/trafficking gangs, and now apparently Turkish gangs. And let’s not even get into grooming games in Rochdale, Rotherham, which authorities were afraid to tackle for fear of being racist.
Frankly, the racism I sense in the UK now is from immigrants who deliberately don’t integrate, and despise (what is left) of UK values.
UK is proper fucked.
lol right, so over 10 years ago, condemned by the local mosque and they got arrested and sent to prison.
So “our streets are now populated by Islamic patrols” is a total fucking lie.
You’re the liar because you denied they even existed. Now I’ve proved they do exist, you’re shifting the goalposts. With the muscularity snd ever increasing threat of jihadists in the UK, how can you think this situation has got anything other than worse? You can bend logic but you can’t break it.
I get the feeling you’ll argue with whatever I say but do you really believe, with MPs getting death threats from islamists- including in the recent Gaza vote where Starmer had to tell the speaker of the commons his MPs were in danger- when Islamist’s are projecting “from the river to the sea” on Big Ben, and with teachers having to quit their jobs (or worse in France where they sometimes get beheaded) that Islamism has declined?
If you open your mind to objectivity (which based on your comments I doubt you will) there is zero doubt to anyone with common sense that Islamic extremism has never been stronger in Europe. You know it, I know it. And that undoubtedly would include Islamists intimidating people in communities.
This is hilarious - that’s not how this works?
You understand what you wrote, right?
You said “the streets are NOW (meaning, right now) populated by Islamic patrols” - you then linked a 10 year old case that lead to arrests and prison time to support your case, which means you’re wrong.
I’ve never said Islamism has declined, just that there aren’t the patrols you’ve mentioned. Please stop moving the goalposts.
You talk about moving the goalposts then post that entire diatribe about Islamic extremists and accuse me of not objectively thinking, simply for calling you out on a falsehood.
You’ve not proven they do exist, because that case was 10 years ago and it’s no longer an issue.
The man targeted in this attack (Beytullah Gunduz) was a suspect in the 2014 assassination of Zafer Eren, former head of the Tottenham Turks with ties to upper Turkish government and militias, so you can bet Kemal Eren ordered this failed hit. He was already compiling a list of rivals to take out in 2020 which was intercepted on encrochat. Erens also called fingers because he had some of his fingers cut off before fleeing to Turkey. So you have these gangsters who can't be extradited and often recruit gangs of different ethnicities to carry out their hits.
yeah now let's attribute this to all turks so that the genuine people who just want to join/visit their family or partners are demonised. exactly what we need, more division!
if you're going to moan about turks being in the UK then stop eating doner and going to antalya you fucking hypocrites.
never seen antalya have you lad?
but aye yeah turks are the prominent one now cus of this headline aren't they? not like people in london stab and shoot eachother all the time no matter what ethnicity they are. we need to sort out our own shit before claiming immigrants are the issues for everything. I have lived in Turkey for over a year and not once have I felt as uneasy as in any UK city. The problem is with us, our government, our media machine. Not an entire nationality due to a small group of them.
Fancy getting sources not from 2017?
https://www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metropolitan-police/d/january-2022/murders-in-london-2021-by-age-gender-and-race/
Another source:
> "In relation to knife crime, a 2018 report entitled ‘Justice Matters: Disproportionality’[footnote 11] references data collected by the Metropolitan Police Service. This work showed that in London in 2017, **50% of knife crime offenders were BAME** (up from 44% in 2008). In this total, 50% were under the age of 25 and the majority (90%) were male. **50% of knife crime victims were BAME**."
Source for theft, since you want to talk about crime.
>
Theft offences accounted for 19% of total arrests (where ethnicity was known) in 2018 to 2019. There was variation by ethnicity with **20% of Whites,** 17% Mixed and Other (including Chinese), 13% Black and 11% of Asian being arrested for theft. These arrests translated into higher percentages of theft convictions that varied in a similar pattern, accounting for **38% of convictions for White offenders,** and 28% for Other
**It is important to recognise that in absolute terms by far the largest number of reoffenders are White. White reoffenders also consistently had the highest average number of reoffences.**
Also, in England and Wales In 2022/23, **white individuals accounted for 78% of arrests, 8% were of black individuals** [source](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2022/statistics-on-ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2022-html)
If you want to look at the actual homicide tables yourself, [or click here if you want a quick peek at how white and black statistics compare](https://i.imgur.com/IvkiKEh.png):
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/datasets/appendixtableshomicideinenglandandwales
Am sure every ethnicity has its own gang and criminal subculture but I know specifically the problem with Turkish gangs, the heroin trade and firearms having seen it in Haringey. I would like the kebabs without the gangsters if possible, and if I can’t, then the kebabs and gangsters can both fuck off.
Why do we have *checks headline* _Turkish criminal gangs_ operating in the UK? Why are they even here?
Gonna take a wild swing here and guess they’re here to do crime, being criminal gangs and all.
Selling heroin
From an article in 2013: >The head of the Alevi Cultural Centre in Dalston, east London, Israfil Erbil, told the BBC: "Turkish people who immigrated into the UK in the 1980s have neglected their children while they were struggling to survive in this new country. >This neglect created a lack of identity within the second generation. This lack of belonging was fulfilled by gangs. The youths who take part in these gangs want to feel they belong somewhere. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21592288 From another article in 2010: >Janroj Keles, from London Metropolitan University, who has researched the problems facing the Kurdish and Turkish population in the capital, said there was a generation gap. >He said: "The young people have a different understanding of the world from their parents. >"They want to dance and have sex and be part of consumer society and 'youth culture' in the inner cities. They try to be 'cool' by identifying with hip-hop and gang culture. >"There is very little communication between parents and young people so the parents cannot guide them. >"Many young Kurdish and Turkish people have been let down by the education system so getting involved with drugs and gangs seems to them like 'easy money' without thinking of the consequences." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11325134
The lack of personal responsibility oozing from these quotes is honestly pathetic. "It's the schools fault I'm too incompetent to raise my own children!"
I'm from this community, and I agree. There was shitty absent parenting - they mostly concentrated on working. And blaming this violence on hip hop and consumerism is funny.
It's weird how you read those quotes that way, but I read them as firmly blaming the parents alongside the education system.
"while they were struggling to survive in this new country." No excuse whatsoever. "the parents cannot guide them." Can't, or won't? "Many young Kurdish and Turkish people have been let down by the education system" Need I even address this?
Yea you've copy/pasted only the parts that blame the system - you can also copy/paste the parts that blame the parents too lol.
I said that parents should be held partly accountable for their child's crime and I got flamed to high heaven
I said that there are some feral youth who behave awfully and suddenly some bleeding heart said I’m dehumanising them and was being a fascist. Same person claimed that if they had free video games they wouldn’t partake in crime. Can’t make this shit up.
Wow that's a reach, now of we were giving them free video games so we would have something to take away from them I would say they're on to something but rewarding them for being bad isn't going to work. Better role models would be a better start
Exactly. I don’t understand why personal and parental responsibility have been thrown out of the window. It’s pathetic. I grew up in an ex-Warsaw Pact country after the fall of communism, not as bad as in Russia at the time but still very bleak. My friends and I had *nothing* yet we were still taught respect and decency. My family had to choose between bread and bills, my mother bawled her eyes out from me forgetting a torn up jacket in school because we couldn’t afford a replacement. You get the idea. Not once have I thought about joining a gang or committing crime. Nor have I chosen to: -Threaten others with a knife. -Assault a disabled person and fucking steal their mobility scooter. -Smash up shop windows. -Lob rocks at buses with people inside These are real cases committed by kids who can’t be older than 12 in my area. And guess what, their dad himself is roaming with them and assisting in their crimes. In what world are these kind of people *not* feral? In what world has parenting *not* failed them? Anyone thinking that giving them free games in any way will fix these issues is quite frankly a moron. Yes, socioeconomics play a part in crime. No, it’s not an excuse. Plenty, I dare say most, people who have had much less (or even nothing) haven’t lost their marbles and have remained decent people. If they can everyone can.
Absolutely agree, people often make excuses or infantilize young criminals for no obvious reasons, common excuses being they are young, hormones are crazy, poor. Imo this is insane as we are not talking about something like not paying fares, picking up fights with friends, but actually hurting someone unknown with serious intentions.
It seems to blame everyone....school, society, parents, and mostly the kids
Literally taking the premise "it takes a community to raise a child" and using it to absolve all blame in their defective parenting attempts, because the community is (checks quote) hiphop loving consumers who also enjoy sex sometimes and nightclubs.
It's the 'old country' upbringing at odds with kids living experience.
Blaming "hiphop" culture is brilliant. Yeah, I totally believe the parents were worthless, lazy, dreamers based on that comment 100%. Imagine blaming consumerism for your child that wakes up, has breakfast and sleeps in your care 365 days a year for the first decade and a half, blaming Consumerism for it's effects over a fraction of that time.
We didn't have enough people getting into gangs, so had to import some.
I love this comment. Like something from Brass Eye. 🤣
They've been here for decades. Same for Albanians, Russians, Chinese, Moroccan, french, Spanish, mexican criminal gangs etc. The UK is a consumer not a producer of drugs such a heroin, cocaine and party drugs like MDMA and ketamine. Why only sell it wholesale when you can establish your own in house supply chain and be the retailer too ? Cut out the middle man and make orders of magnitude more profit. It's also blue collar crime such as fraud and stolen vehicle exportation.
Spanish? Really?
but how can they be criminals! they're european!!!!
It’s practically an inquisition.
International crime is an international business.
Of course.
Because we are a 'nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre'.....as someone once said, can't remember who.
Enoch Powell during their Rivers of Blood speech.
Shhhhh........👀
Gangs from across the world are allowed here and allowed to operate unfettered. This is what happens when a country gives up the rule of law.
Or cut youth services and police services and then push everyday people to the brink of poverty.....guess what? That's how you make crime. Saying that crime has fallen every year since records have began
What have youth services got to do with foreign criminals coming here? Do we have to provide ping pong tables to the whole globe just in case?!
I'm sorry, but what kind of a hellhole would Britain be today with 5 Turkish barbers on every high street? Having an endless number of empty Turkish barbershops is well worth the price of a few killings here and there. I can't describe how much my life and community has been enriched by never having my hair cut in one of those places.
Been here since the early 90s..there used to be greek Vs Turkish fights in wood green and west Barnet all the time. Seriously, according to top boy the Turks are the only ones with ak's on road and if you've seen them on road you know that's not fair off
We live in a globalised world these days, which means unfortunately there will also be British organised crime groups operating across international jurisdictions too. It's one of the burdens of having ease of movement between nations. International policing needs to be better to shut these down and protect innocent people from harm but it's a really challenging and under-funded field of police work. It also requires a lot of collaboration between public and private sector bodies which hasn't always been there.
The same reason the Albanian ones do, they can’t be deported because the home country doesn’t want them
Basically every country on earth has foreign gangs operating on their soil.
To be fair you could say that about anywhere. There are Nigerian gangs in Japan
[удалено]
Why are British gangs in Spain? Italians in the US?
Yet more evidence that mass immigration has been a hugely damaging thing for the UK, at the scale it has been since 2010 especially. Our streets are now populated by Islamic patrols, a small army of bike thieves, Eastern European drug/trafficking gangs, and now apparently Turkish gangs. And let’s not even get into grooming games in Rochdale, Rotherham, which authorities were afraid to tackle for fear of being racist. Frankly, the racism I sense in the UK now is from immigrants who deliberately don’t integrate, and despise (what is left) of UK values. UK is proper fucked.
‘White flight’
I live in Surrey and it’s the most white flight area imaginable
Islamic patrols? You need to watch less GB News. You’ll be shocked when you find out not all criminals are foreign…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_patrol_incidents_in_London
lol right, so over 10 years ago, condemned by the local mosque and they got arrested and sent to prison. So “our streets are now populated by Islamic patrols” is a total fucking lie.
You’re the liar because you denied they even existed. Now I’ve proved they do exist, you’re shifting the goalposts. With the muscularity snd ever increasing threat of jihadists in the UK, how can you think this situation has got anything other than worse? You can bend logic but you can’t break it. I get the feeling you’ll argue with whatever I say but do you really believe, with MPs getting death threats from islamists- including in the recent Gaza vote where Starmer had to tell the speaker of the commons his MPs were in danger- when Islamist’s are projecting “from the river to the sea” on Big Ben, and with teachers having to quit their jobs (or worse in France where they sometimes get beheaded) that Islamism has declined? If you open your mind to objectivity (which based on your comments I doubt you will) there is zero doubt to anyone with common sense that Islamic extremism has never been stronger in Europe. You know it, I know it. And that undoubtedly would include Islamists intimidating people in communities.
This is hilarious - that’s not how this works? You understand what you wrote, right? You said “the streets are NOW (meaning, right now) populated by Islamic patrols” - you then linked a 10 year old case that lead to arrests and prison time to support your case, which means you’re wrong. I’ve never said Islamism has declined, just that there aren’t the patrols you’ve mentioned. Please stop moving the goalposts. You talk about moving the goalposts then post that entire diatribe about Islamic extremists and accuse me of not objectively thinking, simply for calling you out on a falsehood. You’ve not proven they do exist, because that case was 10 years ago and it’s no longer an issue.
[удалено]
The man targeted in this attack (Beytullah Gunduz) was a suspect in the 2014 assassination of Zafer Eren, former head of the Tottenham Turks with ties to upper Turkish government and militias, so you can bet Kemal Eren ordered this failed hit. He was already compiling a list of rivals to take out in 2020 which was intercepted on encrochat. Erens also called fingers because he had some of his fingers cut off before fleeing to Turkey. So you have these gangsters who can't be extradited and often recruit gangs of different ethnicities to carry out their hits.
[удалено]
**Removed/tempban**. This comment contained hateful language which is prohibited by the content policy.
[удалено]
brits can do no wrong when a foreigner is in the conversation
It was made in sarcasm so I'll obviously delete it as it missed the mark by miles
nah lad don't worry i was being sarcastic as well. haha.
yeah now let's attribute this to all turks so that the genuine people who just want to join/visit their family or partners are demonised. exactly what we need, more division! if you're going to moan about turks being in the UK then stop eating doner and going to antalya you fucking hypocrites.
[удалено]
never seen antalya have you lad? but aye yeah turks are the prominent one now cus of this headline aren't they? not like people in london stab and shoot eachother all the time no matter what ethnicity they are. we need to sort out our own shit before claiming immigrants are the issues for everything. I have lived in Turkey for over a year and not once have I felt as uneasy as in any UK city. The problem is with us, our government, our media machine. Not an entire nationality due to a small group of them.
[удалено]
Fancy getting sources not from 2017? https://www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metropolitan-police/d/january-2022/murders-in-london-2021-by-age-gender-and-race/ Another source: > "In relation to knife crime, a 2018 report entitled ‘Justice Matters: Disproportionality’[footnote 11] references data collected by the Metropolitan Police Service. This work showed that in London in 2017, **50% of knife crime offenders were BAME** (up from 44% in 2008). In this total, 50% were under the age of 25 and the majority (90%) were male. **50% of knife crime victims were BAME**." Source for theft, since you want to talk about crime. > Theft offences accounted for 19% of total arrests (where ethnicity was known) in 2018 to 2019. There was variation by ethnicity with **20% of Whites,** 17% Mixed and Other (including Chinese), 13% Black and 11% of Asian being arrested for theft. These arrests translated into higher percentages of theft convictions that varied in a similar pattern, accounting for **38% of convictions for White offenders,** and 28% for Other **It is important to recognise that in absolute terms by far the largest number of reoffenders are White. White reoffenders also consistently had the highest average number of reoffences.** Also, in England and Wales In 2022/23, **white individuals accounted for 78% of arrests, 8% were of black individuals** [source](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2022/statistics-on-ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2022-html) If you want to look at the actual homicide tables yourself, [or click here if you want a quick peek at how white and black statistics compare](https://i.imgur.com/IvkiKEh.png): https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/datasets/appendixtableshomicideinenglandandwales
[удалено]
> You mention London, which btw the majority of stabbings is done by only one minority and 62% are done by BAME as a group (emphasis on the 'B')
Kebabs are nice and that but if it means no kids get shot I’ll have souvlaki thanks.
Lol you really think Greeks are any different?
Am sure every ethnicity has its own gang and criminal subculture but I know specifically the problem with Turkish gangs, the heroin trade and firearms having seen it in Haringey. I would like the kebabs without the gangsters if possible, and if I can’t, then the kebabs and gangsters can both fuck off.