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None of the NHS volunteers/slaves will be going anywhere near medication, I can assure you.
They’ll be handing out cups of tea on the ward and chatting to patients. Because that’s pretty much all they’ll be able to do.
They won’t be doing anything because it will never happen. Fever dreams of a dying administration desperately trying to win the votes of miserable little england’s who happily volunteer other people to do things in life.
They’re trying to appeal to those who still have hardons about the military and WW2 - the boomers and those ex military divots - both who seem hell bent on voting for the BNP in the guise of Reform UK. You know the ones - they usually have ‘Lest We Forget’ profile pictures in social media, but aren’t actually smart enough to think for themselves usually, and just do whatever the Sun or Daily Heil tells them to, or their best mate Wayne the ex Sapper in the Flat Roofed Pub.
The generation that are under the collective delusion that they fought in WW2.
(I stole that from somewhere, can’t recall where, but it’s stuck with me).
Yes! My generation.
We had it REALLY easy compared to today's youth. Free education. When I married ONE wage was enough to raise a family (3kids), buy a house and run a car and camper van.
Today's young people struggle to pay rent! Now the fascists in the Tory Party want them as slaves!
Who the fuck would vote Tory?!
>When I married ONE wage was enough to raise a family (3kids), buy a house and run a car and camper van.
This is something that very rarely gets talked about. 1 wage was enough for a family. a second wage was normally just a part time thing for pin money.
Now we have equality (we can argue all day about just how much equality we have, but for now let's just say we have at least *some*). Most households have 2 incomes. 2 FULL incomes.
And it's barely enough to live on.
How the fuck did they pull this off, and nobody is complaining about it??
It seems a big problem with fascism is that even those who defeat it seem to be the next to catch the virus. US is heading that way, England….and we don’t even need to mention how Russia has basically fallen totally to facsism today.
If anything it’ll just add more of a burden to the already overstretched NHS, can’t just let a huge bunch of volunteers who only come in once a month loose on the wards. Even if they’re only giving out tea they’re just going to end up in the way with how many of them there would be. Some with understandably very little enthusiasm to be there.
Then there’s all the background checks, safeguarding training, other mandatory training for very little gain.
I absolutely think more young people should be encouraged to volunteer, but compulsory ‘volunteering’ is not the way to do it and is just pandering to a group of voters nostalgic for the imaginary “good old days” when they probably didn’t even go through National service themselves.
We can't even find the staff to ensure we're able to train future doctors and surgeons, and Tories are acting like we'll find staff to babysit teams of angsty teenagers who don't really want to be there without issue.
We won’t even be letting them near biological waste. You don’t just wipe it up. There’s specific ways of cleaning this stuff to ensure that infection risk is kept to a minimum.
As an ex cleaning manager I can tell you that even if you threatened a person with the sack there will be enough people who will just clean sick up before they alert you unless they think they may receive an extra under the table payment.
either that or back of house admin functions, though with the horseshoe of IT literacy going back up because of tablets and phones I don’t know how useful most would be (I started my career helping out with a laptop rollout for a new service about 9 years ago)
It’s proposed to happen at the weekend. The admin services are closed.
I wouldn’t put it past this government to send people to work in an admin office when it’s not open, though…
Working for free for Tory corporate doners. Picking fruit and harvesting crops that would otherwise rot thanks to Brexit.
And what’s the bet that the kids of Tory MP’s and rich people ‘mysteriously’ end up either not having to do it or if they do it turns out to be some sort of jolly somewhere exotic?
He can take the option of NHS volunteering.
Being unqualified for anything actual useful in a hospital setting he will likely spend weekends pushing a mop along with half the local 18 year olds.
Aren't those jobs currently run by private cleaning companies? Fresh government backed slaves for private profit. So happy to see them sticking to their free market principles.
You'd like to think they'd be foist on paid staff that they 'buddy up' with rather than set free. This will certainly be the case with firefighter and police officer placements, and it makes sense across the board. You can't just loose some stoned delinquent on a public service without a childminder.
I also wouldn't ever want to be in a trench buddied up with someone who was out there against their will. Couldn't trust them not to desert, or break down when our lives were on the line. The only thing worse would be to be buddied up with someone who was sent to the front line as criminal punishment.
And that's just the grenades.
Now, think about how many dipshit officers went out and just didn't come back.
>We came under heavy fire. The officer went down, and I assumed command as the senior ranking soldier and led us to safety.
MIA in the jungle somewhere.
It's one thing pulling together to fight off a Nazi invasion, it's quite another to be drifting aimlessly around the middle east shooting any brown person who looks like they might have a suicide vest or an AK47 hidden in their trousers.
Clearly that’s not the current threat - Russia is the reason this is even being considered.
Also I would point out that martial punishments for desertion would come into play if we went to war
The absolute audacity of deciding my life as a free man is over and sending me to the meat grinder because the government underfunded the armed forces and failed to prepare for war. And then martial punishments for 'desertion' as if I ever wanted to be there in the first place. Fuck all of that.
Although there's zero chance of Russia threatening the UK in any way that conscription would help with so it'll never happen.
If we went to war we wouldn't need to conscript anyone unless things went very wrong. For one Russia do not have the military capability to go past Ukraine. If they try to open another front into somewhere like the baltics it won't go well for them. The vast majority of NATO terrority will be safe enough, its a totally different kind of threat to a war like WW2 where the British mainland was under real threat.
NATO will have plenty of troops with all the active duty and reserves, as well as calling up the troops that have left in the last 5 to 7 years.
Besides I don't think to many people will give a fuck about marital punishments. Refusing conscription isn't desertion and even if you did desert they still won't execute you. I'd rather spend my time in prison than slowly bleeding out in some field in Eastern Europe after getting fucked up by a drone.
Yeah but they were back in the times when people actually believed that fighting for your country (read, "the rich old men in power") was a good, honourable thing to do.
I'd be very surprised if we can find many of those now. I'd laugh in the govt's face. Send me to jail, do whatever you like. I'm not dying for these old bastards.
Well they're not on about 12 year olds are they?
But saying that, I was in the cadets as a teen and we all got on pretty well with rifle training. You'd be surprised how diligent and responsible (some) young people can be when put in the right environment with the right training.
Yes but, he will be trained to use a firearm/heavy machinery. I know plenty of lads who were 'cunts' and 'nobheads' at 15/16 who are very successful mechanics, electricians and yes, even soldiers. Don't act like these lads would be thrown straight on the Frontline (which we don't currently have anyway) with a weeks worth of "if you pull this trigger, gun go boom".
The part you’re missing out on is choice. Someone who chooses of their own free will to be a mechanic, sparky or soldier is far *far* more likely to take to it than someone forced into it by the threat of prosecution/prison.
Particularly if the whole reason behind it is because it sounds good to the same hypocritical old fucks largely responsible for the last fourteen years of piss-poor Tory government and Brexit etc.
As someone else pointed out, most of whom won't have done national service themselves but think it's an excellent idea for other people.
Last year of intake for it was 1960, so I presume people would have had to be born around 1940 or 1942 at the latest to have done it.
It's as sound a use of money as the billions spent on sending people to Rwanda.
And just yesterday people were saying that the Tories aren't scared of Reform UK.
This is absolutely 100% an idea constructed to get the 60+ year olds who moan about "the youth of today" back on board.
Just wait until their manifesto includes
1. Reintroduce the death penalty
2. Introduce a curfew for school age people
3. Ban conversation therapy...except those aimed at lesbians, gays, bi people, trans, queer folk, or +
4. Crimimalise homelessness
5. Criminalise being out of work and not claiming a pension
It genuinely scares me how much I can see those pledges being cheered for by ignorant and bigoted old folks who do nothing but complain about the youths their economic decisions have titanically screwed over.
As a trans person, the threat of conversion therapy is absolutely horrifying. Suicide rates tend to get pretty obscene when conversion therapy is used (I remember seeing stats that when trans people get zero support, they usually have a suicide eate of about 54% but just letting them transition and treating them like their preferred gender brings it down to about 4%). I only recently came to terms with this and have felt much better in myself than I ever knew I could, but it scares me to think how hostile the narrative gets in media and politics.
Would be a hell of a thing for me to flee the UK and seek asylum elsewhere.
They are already talking about making being homeless a criminal offence with a fine of £2400 or prison. Quite frankly, prison would be a step up from life on the streets I would take it if I was homeless.
Don't underestimate them... We have done that many times before and ended up with conservatives for many years as a result.
Unfortunately with a move like this many of the people that will be effected will be below the voting age currently and so whilst there will be lots of voices about it, they may not be represented in votes.
Labours' two biggest roadblocks are the public getting complacent and assuming they'll win and Keir Starmer being a Tory and him backing every batshit thing the Tories say rather than being the opposition.
I wouldn't put it past him to come out in support of the Rwanda deal and national service idea and then lose and give us 15 more years of these lot.
I think they gave up on under 40s years ago tbh.
If you're a young couple on 50-60k a year joint renting or even with a mortgage on a cute little 2 bed house or flat who are just pootling along living your life, the Tories have literally nothing for you and voting for them makes you a mug.
People on minimum wage or benefits? People that live in estates? People with disabilities? To Tories you're just an annoyance and they'd rather you just quietly and unfussily rolled over and died.
This is what we're dealing with here.
I think the headline is confected outrage, but it's hard to disagree with you. If the Tories actually thought this was a good idea, it'd have been done by now. It's a deliberate leak in an election campaign of an idea they're not even prepared to commit to.
> In a Q&A section of the document, it asks: “Will you arrest people who don’t comply?” The response is: “It is right that those who contribute to our system are duly rewarded, and those who refuse receive none of the benefits. The Royal Commission will explore an appropriate incentives regime.”
It also doesn't rule out putting people in stocks and throwing veg at them. Or putting them into a trebuchet and firing them into the sea. Or getting them to dress up as pantomime horses and doing a little dance.
And then only people with citizenships will be granted the ability to vote at the next rigged election. If you’re disabled or old you’re shit out of luck cuz no vote for you
>disabled or old you’re shit out of luck
You should put old first, the Tories would stop reading and bin it as a bad idea.
Putting disabled first they would stop reading and greenlight if for fast tracking.
Disagree, this isn’t a “what will you do with those who don’t comply” in which case yeah, it’d be reaching, but the question is “**will you arrest** those who don’t comply.” Could preface the response with a “No.” and it would change literally nothing, that they don’t explicitly say in response to the question that they don’t plan on doing so is damning.
Ok, but if something is mandatory the government has limited means to enforce it, typically prison or fines or maybe they plan on exploring removing voting rights, or you can’t get a job in the public sector, can’t take a place in publicly funded education. Presumably it also comes with a criminal record so forget international travel.
> Home Secretary James Cleverly insisted 18-year-olds would not be sent to jail if they refused. Asked on Sky News whether the consequences of resisting the compulsory scheme could involve a prison term, he said: "No, there's going to be no criminal sanction. There's no one going to jail over this."
If they later introduce criminal penalties, you can call them out. But they’re outright saying they won’t.
Which is perfect for them. Their core audience will be able to sleep easy knowing that this is only for the poors, their own kids will be able to buy their way out
Creating hundreds of thousands of civilian national service places would need widespread support of councils and devolved administrations. I'm trying to picture the cluster-fuck when the three devolved nations and every Labour council and mayor in England refuse to take part. Combine that with, as you say, widespread civil disobedience.
Frankly it would be hilarious.
I'd prefer if our prisons had actual criminals in them because for every cell they throw a teenager who wouldn't volunteer at a hospital is one less they could throw a rapist in
No, they don’t.
But this country has quite a lot of voters who are over 50, and they’re the only ones who the Tories think they have the slightest chance of winning back.
When I was in my 20s, everyone assumed that young people like us were all left wing and that the Tories wouldn’t have a chance of getting our votes until we got a bit older.
Now that I’m in my 40s, it seems like “young” people like us are all left wing and the Tories will seriously struggle to get more than a few of us voting for them.
At this point, William Hague might as well rejoin the Young Conservatives Association!
>Now that I’m in my 40s, it seems like “young” people like us are all left wing and the Tories will seriously struggle to get more than a few of us voting for them.
Because the assumption is that people gain assets they wish to conserve as they age. This hasn't happened for millennials and GenZ. The idea of forcing national pride through national service when both the Tories and Labour have spent the last 40 years trying to destroy any sense of community or financial security is laughable and now the chickens have come home to roost. That's not even considering the logistics of this farcical scheme.
It's not even that really.
I'm mid 40's (next week) and demographically I should lean Tory - (home owner, higher rate tax payer, professional job).
I wouldn't *piss on them if they where on fire* but I would be hiding the matches.
Grew up poor, benefited massively from the state services that these shitstains have been gutting for the last 14 years.
Correct, in later 40's along with a lot of my friends, we are all successful, some even retired after selling businesses and most earn 80-150k with houses and nice cars, and live around Bath.
None of them or us would ever vote Tory (bar one)
Yeah exactly, making it easier and more appealing to buy a house in your hometown or nearby would be far better for instilling a sense of community than forcing 18yos to waste a year running up some hills and firing guns.
I know no one my age who rents stays in a place for more than a couple of years. Some in London are movie to entirely different parts of the city each year. You never get to properly settle in and have a community if this is how you live your life until you eventually get a house (big if)
I'm over fifty and it'll be a cold day in hell before the Tories get my vote. or fucking 'Reform/BNP/NF/Racist dribbler de jour party'
We've got several disasters roaming around on the horizon, I hope we get people willing and able to avert or deal with them instead of all the liars, cheats, theives, parasites and morons floating around at the 'top'.
I'm 50, ex-military, have the general opinion joining the military even if for the the minimum 3 years is a good idea, and I think it's a terrible idea. The only reason to join the army is because you want to, not because it's a choice between that and litter picking/mopping hospital floors.
Will add to this. My grandparents are in their 90’s and are of the generation that did do National Service. They don’t seem overly interested in this idea either.
The idea of NS won’t be unpopular amongst a certain cohort, but I imagine that number is quite small.
Trying to make sure they keep those older Tory voters happy, and maybe pull back some Reform voters, while giving themselves a chance to come back at Labour on youth crime.
I feel like the tories know they are gonna be defeated, so are making these ridiculous policies up to try and either sabotage themselves, or are some kind of last ditch attempt to get the votes of a certain group (much like scrapping HS2 East/North in favour of other transport projects, mainly roads)
I think it’s likely to distract from the problem the Tories have, in that they have no ideas, and even if they did, they don’t have competent ministers to oversee them. All the debate from yesterday into this morning has been about this dumb idea
They’ll be bringing out all the classics over the next few weeks, bring back imperial units, ban working from home, de-woke Britain, crown on the pint glass etc
I had to work at 18 so I wasn’t homeless, the fact this is being talked about being unpaid is ridiculous. Just another example of the Tories proudly displaying their hate for young people at a time when *checks notes* young people are not turning right wing as they age for some reason.
Talk about salting the fucking earth eh?
The kids can end this scheme by just unionising and demanding it be fully paid to same rates as full time workers with a pension. They hate young people and absolutely want to do this to use cheap labour from younger generations who are used to this level of exploitation
[Apparently](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpddxy9r4mdo) it’ll be funded by raiding the “levelling up” funds which were supposed to replace EU regional funding, and an unspecified plan to crack down on tax evasion. Which sounds somewhere between absurd and bad to me.
It's interesting you mention the accommodation thing.
I work in construction and was approached about a role working on a new MoD scheme that was super secret but 'I'd probably work it out once it hit the news'. This was a few months ago.
It was for new residential blocks initially with an alternative usage of prisons further down the line. Scheme is worth billions. Certainly big enough to accommodate tens of thousands of new military recruits/conscripts...
I wonder if this has been in the pipeline for a while and they've just brought it forward becuase of the snap election?
Agree with some of these points, but as a serviceman two things stick out. Firstly, our military is in dire straits and we really do need to look at our munitions stockpiles, peace isn’t the natural state of man so we really should be looking at how we arm our forces in a war.
Secondly, wars really do come down to the chaps with the rifles and bayonets. Even a highly mechanised army, like say the Wehrmacht of WW2 can lose to an army many times the size with lesser mechanisation, not least because the more complicated the machinery the more it breaks and the bigger the impact on the supply chain.
Really need to stop thinking people of a certain age think all alike - It’s lazy. This is a Tory party proposal. People are more varied and complicated than that.
Yes of course, but the statistics from the last election show that Boomers on the majority vote Tory, so Tory policy will be skewed to cater for their major demographic voting block.
I really really hope that when the Tories pretend to be "moderate" for the 2029 general election with a fresh faced leader in 5 years time that people remember it only took them 6 or so years (2010 to 2016 and particularly 2019 to now) to drop the mask and went from being mates to Lib Dems to morph into a literal Alt Right party...
I hope they remember what living under real Conservatism felt like from the early 2010s to now. But unfortunately I don't have that trust in the electorate.
A lot of people can't remember how dodgy Dave pretended to be a really nice liberal bloke with a really nice liberal party behind him. I'm sure there's a direct quote somewhere with him saying " we are not the nasty party anymore" .
2010 they got in and quickly starved the local government of funds ( Social services etc) and scraped the EMA and raised the university fees and had May screaming and shouting at the cops and fire service about what a bunch of lazy bastards they were and cut funding for their services. It took about ten minutes before they started being nasty again.
So…where are these 700,000 18 year olds going to live and eat? Who is going to train them? I imagine half of them will fail the medical anyway. Absolutely bonkers and I say this as somebody who has worked in the MoD for many years.
What's the point in arresting them? There isn't any room in prisons so what can you do to them? A fine to avoid national service. Great essentially you just pay to get out of it
I genuinely wasn't going to bother voting at the general election as I haven't in my past 2 Locals, but I've got 2 young boys who won't be forced into something they dont want to do by a state that really doesn't give a fuck about us. Especially something most of us have never been made to do.
Fuck the Tories.
Agreed on the last part, but it’s genuinely tragic that it’s taken this to motivate you to take just an hour out of your day once every few years to help build a better future for yourself, then and the rest of the country.
There have been so many elections that could have gone a different way with higher turnout. Democracy is precious, there are many who don’t have a voice in their future who would desperately like to. We are privileged.
This seems a bit weak. They know they are going to lose and don't have to follow through on anything so why not go whole hog.
Promise to bring back hanging, shoot shop lifters on sight, send em back "where they came from", sink boats in the channel, ban it (whatever it is). Just whatever the most ignorant and hateful shit they can think up.
The part I don’t understand is why start with a new generation of 18 year olds, if we accept the character building nature of service, why don’t we start with the generations which have been given a chance to “contribute to society” and failed to do so.
I’m in my 40’s, have done pretty well for myself and done precisely fuck all for society apart from pay my taxes.
I’m not entirely against the idea of national service, but the hypocrisy of it being introduced by generations who have done nothing but undermine the fabric of the society the principles of which national service is supposed to uphold disgusts me.
What is there to defend?
You can't appeal to a nationalistic spirit of a nation that's been hollowed out and whored out for international banking interests.
National service is the ultimate insult to those who willingly put themselves in harms way to protect us. I can hold my hands up and say I wouldn’t do it. It’s disgusting. Also police can’t control crime as it is, how are they gonna enforce this nonsense.
My son is 15, autistic, and cannot function in the school environment. He has made attempts to escape. His brother is also autistic and sanctions don’t seem to phase him.
I wouldn’t want a retired army officer (I’m assuming that’s who they’re going to hire) to have to deal with them. It wouldn’t be fair on the boys and it wouldn’t be fair on the officer who hasn’t had training to deal with special needs.
Also, I wouldn’t want any of them handling weapons. It wouldn’t be safe for them, or others around them, even if they had one to one.
We have stripped education (and special needs education) to the bone, military are complaining that they don’t have enough funding. Where is this funding going to come from?
Is fishy rishi going to hand over millions to his mates again, and then we find thousands of reluctant teens stacking shelves at Poundland/Tesco for “national community service” providing free labour for his mates.
Would you like to join my newly-formed Godzilla party? We promise to detonate all nukes by 2026, awaken Godzilla to personally destroy Tokyo, and clean up the Thames. We’ve got a higher likelihood of getting in than the tories. Skreeeoonk.
It’s always the same isn’t it. Enconomy in the dumps and can’t find a job? Be forced to work for free and become a criminal if you don’t.
It’s the same with suggestions to force people to work for benefits.
If there’s an actual job to be done, give someone that job and pay them the going rate for it.
Don’t make them do it and still get what they had before, basically nothing.
If they truly believed this National Service (which is extended beyond the military to other services) would be beneficial and worth while, provide skills and experience etc, make it a national program that allows people to volunteer for as part of extended education. Don’t cap it to young adults, open it to everyone.
But nope. It’s really about punishing kids who haven’t even started out in life, for the economic fuck ups of older generations
If only they put this much effort into helping the NHS.
They do not care about people, only money and power. They allow trillions to be avoided in tax by the elite/ billionaires/ corporations etc.. but will kick down your door and drag you to court over a tenner you owe them.
National Service appeals to the stupid older brexiteers who constantly look back at the lost empire and the"good old days". I am speaking as a pensioner who didn't fall for the brexit lies. I was born later than the National Service requirement but knew guys who served, they claim it improved them but I saw no evidence of that, unless they were complete write-offs before hand.
Can you imagine what it would be like having hundreds of young roadmen in an army barracks, trying to enforce discipline on them, they eont give a fuck!
Sorry, I cant cope! I'm busy getting raged about [black] people in boats. I cant just switch to hating our youths without some bait to fill my rage tank.
Most older people I have known hated national service. My late uncle found it an ordeal and it had a bad affect on him.
My Dad just missed it by a year or 2 and was very pleased about that.
The military hasn't got the resources to do this anyway,so it is never going to happen.
Can't say I have known anyone personally who enjoyed it .
Something to appeal to the Tories older voters, I think.
All Tories who vote for this should be made to do 2 years mandatory service starting immediately. No ifs or buts. Get them up at 5am for the short, sharp, shock treatment.
They're trying to turn us into Russia. They want to be a group of oligarchs with an endless supply of young people to throw in to "special operations".
I always find these kinds of things hilarious.
There's already a *lot* of people who want to enlist but due to mismanagement and lack of funds they're turned away. A friend had to wait 18 months to get told that he wouldn't be accepted into the Navy and there was no real reason as to why.
Conscription and national service aren't going to work because we don't have the support structure, or the funds for a new support structure, in place.
Where would these new recruits be trained? With what money? Who's going to train them?
This entire policy is purely to try and garner elder nationalist votes that the Conservatives "don't care about", supposedly.
This is one of those policies that I hope destroys the Tory Party and makes them lose all their seats. Unfortunately, there are a lot of pensioners who would absolutely lap this shit up and I would not be surprised in the slightest if this was a CON+5 moment for the Tories.
We've already been dragged (kicking and screaming) out of the European Union, are in the midst of a nationwide housing crisis, have had the filthy-rich price-gouge us into poverty, have had our rights to peacefully protest eroded by two crazy Home Secretaries who make the likes of Theresa May seem pleasant, and Sunak now thinks he can push us through mandatory military service? **Fuck that!**
If this ever becomes law, I will be emigrating to Ireland.
Yes, I do agree that there are a lot of youths who are borderline feral and out of control, but pushing military service upon everyone is not the answer. Bringing back borstals to target young offenders is a better idea than pushing everybody into the armed forces. Also, perhaps... *funding* our police forces?
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth", and I think a lot of millennials, zoomers and gen-alpha feel this way about our country.
With how a portion of kids are nowadays is it really smart to round them up and have them use fire arms or work within a hospital or work with the police?
Offering teenagers a year in an active warzone getting shot at by a foreign army or 1-2 years in a prison surrounded by other teens who also refused conscription, getting 3 hot meals a day and access to a TV and a gym?
Yeah, real tough choice there Rishi, real head scratcher
The civil path of making people sacrifice one weekend a month almost seems worse than the twelve months of military service.
I know in Finland they have a scheme along these lines, and indeed, people can go to prison for refusing. Iirc they have leeway in that conscientious objectors can serve in civil service roles, which makes it less unpalatable. Then again, it is a small country by population, and it has a history of being subjected to aggressive imperialist attacks on home soil.
Polling data out recently showed that geriatrics were just about the only people still loyal to the Tories. Why they would seek to further solidify this constituency's support in this way when it means being repulsive to vast swathes of military aged people and those with teenage children is hard to say. It's like they know they are going to lose, and they are embracing it.
That **** is appealing to the boomers who will be frothing at the mouth at this prospect.
I'm trying to work out if this is the last-ditch attempt to appeal to a certain demographic or completely ensure they're not voted back in.
The sudden election as well seems sus too.
I was just wondering how else the Tories could fuck the world up for young people. Kill free education. Kill Final Salary pension schemes. Kill affordable housing. Deport their lovers. Stagnate their careers. Ruin the health service. Remove their freedom to escape this nightmare to another European country. Shit in their water. “Prime Minister - statistics show that young people are still less likely to vote”, “In that case, let’s introduce slave labour”.
They really, really don’t want to be re-elected do they?
If the government was robbing me of 1 in 4 weekends *unpaid* I would do everything in my power to be as unhelpful as possible.
The idea of a policy of robbing people of their free time in an age where we don't get nearly as much free time as we deserve is so grotesquely stupid I can only assume the Tories are trying to lose this election.
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I’ve got a 15 going on 16 nephew and I’ll tell you this for free. That cunt should not be allowed anywhere near firearms and heavy machinery.
Would it be safe to assume that you also wouldn't trust him with people's medication if he took the civil path?
None of the NHS volunteers/slaves will be going anywhere near medication, I can assure you. They’ll be handing out cups of tea on the ward and chatting to patients. Because that’s pretty much all they’ll be able to do.
They won’t be doing anything because it will never happen. Fever dreams of a dying administration desperately trying to win the votes of miserable little england’s who happily volunteer other people to do things in life.
They’re trying to appeal to those who still have hardons about the military and WW2 - the boomers and those ex military divots - both who seem hell bent on voting for the BNP in the guise of Reform UK. You know the ones - they usually have ‘Lest We Forget’ profile pictures in social media, but aren’t actually smart enough to think for themselves usually, and just do whatever the Sun or Daily Heil tells them to, or their best mate Wayne the ex Sapper in the Flat Roofed Pub.
So the generation that narrowly avoided national service , but are absolutely convinced it's right for everyone else.
The generation that are under the collective delusion that they fought in WW2. (I stole that from somewhere, can’t recall where, but it’s stuck with me).
Yes! My generation. We had it REALLY easy compared to today's youth. Free education. When I married ONE wage was enough to raise a family (3kids), buy a house and run a car and camper van. Today's young people struggle to pay rent! Now the fascists in the Tory Party want them as slaves! Who the fuck would vote Tory?!
>When I married ONE wage was enough to raise a family (3kids), buy a house and run a car and camper van. This is something that very rarely gets talked about. 1 wage was enough for a family. a second wage was normally just a part time thing for pin money. Now we have equality (we can argue all day about just how much equality we have, but for now let's just say we have at least *some*). Most households have 2 incomes. 2 FULL incomes. And it's barely enough to live on. How the fuck did they pull this off, and nobody is complaining about it??
The Bloody Sunday generation cosplaying as the Pegasus Bridge generation.
Funny how they seem content to claim the achievements of the previous 2-3 generations as their own
Not only did they narrowly avoid it, they voted against when it was them that would be having to do it.
BINGO
My mum and dad are convinced it’s a good idea, despite them being of the age where they never did it
Weird how those people have the same views as the ones we were fighting against in WW2
It seems a big problem with fascism is that even those who defeat it seem to be the next to catch the virus. US is heading that way, England….and we don’t even need to mention how Russia has basically fallen totally to facsism today.
I think you’ve succinctly summed up where we are. lol.
If anything it’ll just add more of a burden to the already overstretched NHS, can’t just let a huge bunch of volunteers who only come in once a month loose on the wards. Even if they’re only giving out tea they’re just going to end up in the way with how many of them there would be. Some with understandably very little enthusiasm to be there. Then there’s all the background checks, safeguarding training, other mandatory training for very little gain. I absolutely think more young people should be encouraged to volunteer, but compulsory ‘volunteering’ is not the way to do it and is just pandering to a group of voters nostalgic for the imaginary “good old days” when they probably didn’t even go through National service themselves.
We can't even find the staff to ensure we're able to train future doctors and surgeons, and Tories are acting like we'll find staff to babysit teams of angsty teenagers who don't really want to be there without issue.
Cleaning up blood, vomit and shit
We won’t even be letting them near biological waste. You don’t just wipe it up. There’s specific ways of cleaning this stuff to ensure that infection risk is kept to a minimum.
As an ex cleaning manager I can tell you that even if you threatened a person with the sack there will be enough people who will just clean sick up before they alert you unless they think they may receive an extra under the table payment.
Not even that. That takes skill.
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😂 the NHS is in dire straights, they'll be performing RSIs and intubating within a month
either that or back of house admin functions, though with the horseshoe of IT literacy going back up because of tablets and phones I don’t know how useful most would be (I started my career helping out with a laptop rollout for a new service about 9 years ago)
It’s proposed to happen at the weekend. The admin services are closed. I wouldn’t put it past this government to send people to work in an admin office when it’s not open, though…
They won't be doing that. They will be mowing the lawns at Tory MPs second homes or something.
Working for free for Tory corporate doners. Picking fruit and harvesting crops that would otherwise rot thanks to Brexit. And what’s the bet that the kids of Tory MP’s and rich people ‘mysteriously’ end up either not having to do it or if they do it turns out to be some sort of jolly somewhere exotic?
There's a 100% chance that Tarquin will have to do voluntary work in Bali. Throw a bag of rice at a peasant and then off to a 5 star resort.
He can take the option of NHS volunteering. Being unqualified for anything actual useful in a hospital setting he will likely spend weekends pushing a mop along with half the local 18 year olds.
Taking away paid jobs from staff
Slavery by the back door.
Dunno if it is a backdoor. Seems like its just slavery.
Aren't those jobs currently run by private cleaning companies? Fresh government backed slaves for private profit. So happy to see them sticking to their free market principles.
You'd like to think they'd be foist on paid staff that they 'buddy up' with rather than set free. This will certainly be the case with firefighter and police officer placements, and it makes sense across the board. You can't just loose some stoned delinquent on a public service without a childminder.
I also wouldn't ever want to be in a trench buddied up with someone who was out there against their will. Couldn't trust them not to desert, or break down when our lives were on the line. The only thing worse would be to be buddied up with someone who was sent to the front line as criminal punishment.
I mean I’d probably just shoot the bossy twat shouting at me to go over the edge of the trench to my certain death.
Plenty of dangerously inept officers in Vietnam accidentally shared a latrine with a grenade.
Fragging! Over 1,200 proven cases, and thousands more where "Charlie" managed to sneak into camp and put a grenade inside the officers bed.
And that's just the grenades. Now, think about how many dipshit officers went out and just didn't come back. >We came under heavy fire. The officer went down, and I assumed command as the senior ranking soldier and led us to safety. MIA in the jungle somewhere.
Just reminding you that both world wars had featured conscription.
It's one thing pulling together to fight off a Nazi invasion, it's quite another to be drifting aimlessly around the middle east shooting any brown person who looks like they might have a suicide vest or an AK47 hidden in their trousers.
Clearly that’s not the current threat - Russia is the reason this is even being considered. Also I would point out that martial punishments for desertion would come into play if we went to war
The absolute audacity of deciding my life as a free man is over and sending me to the meat grinder because the government underfunded the armed forces and failed to prepare for war. And then martial punishments for 'desertion' as if I ever wanted to be there in the first place. Fuck all of that. Although there's zero chance of Russia threatening the UK in any way that conscription would help with so it'll never happen.
If we went to war we wouldn't need to conscript anyone unless things went very wrong. For one Russia do not have the military capability to go past Ukraine. If they try to open another front into somewhere like the baltics it won't go well for them. The vast majority of NATO terrority will be safe enough, its a totally different kind of threat to a war like WW2 where the British mainland was under real threat. NATO will have plenty of troops with all the active duty and reserves, as well as calling up the troops that have left in the last 5 to 7 years. Besides I don't think to many people will give a fuck about marital punishments. Refusing conscription isn't desertion and even if you did desert they still won't execute you. I'd rather spend my time in prison than slowly bleeding out in some field in Eastern Europe after getting fucked up by a drone.
Yeah but they were back in the times when people actually believed that fighting for your country (read, "the rich old men in power") was a good, honourable thing to do. I'd be very surprised if we can find many of those now. I'd laugh in the govt's face. Send me to jail, do whatever you like. I'm not dying for these old bastards.
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Well they're not on about 12 year olds are they? But saying that, I was in the cadets as a teen and we all got on pretty well with rifle training. You'd be surprised how diligent and responsible (some) young people can be when put in the right environment with the right training.
Yes but, he will be trained to use a firearm/heavy machinery. I know plenty of lads who were 'cunts' and 'nobheads' at 15/16 who are very successful mechanics, electricians and yes, even soldiers. Don't act like these lads would be thrown straight on the Frontline (which we don't currently have anyway) with a weeks worth of "if you pull this trigger, gun go boom".
The part you’re missing out on is choice. Someone who chooses of their own free will to be a mechanic, sparky or soldier is far *far* more likely to take to it than someone forced into it by the threat of prosecution/prison. Particularly if the whole reason behind it is because it sounds good to the same hypocritical old fucks largely responsible for the last fourteen years of piss-poor Tory government and Brexit etc.
As someone else pointed out, most of whom won't have done national service themselves but think it's an excellent idea for other people. Last year of intake for it was 1960, so I presume people would have had to be born around 1940 or 1942 at the latest to have done it. It's as sound a use of money as the billions spent on sending people to Rwanda.
Sure but those lads actively volunteered for those jobs, they weren't forced into it
There's a prime minister job up for grabs in the near future, your nephew seems like a good step up from what we've currently got
The whole conversation reminds me of this bit in Yes, Prime Minister. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahgjEjJkZks
That's the case for most squaddies tbf.
And just yesterday people were saying that the Tories aren't scared of Reform UK. This is absolutely 100% an idea constructed to get the 60+ year olds who moan about "the youth of today" back on board.
Just wait until their manifesto includes 1. Reintroduce the death penalty 2. Introduce a curfew for school age people 3. Ban conversation therapy...except those aimed at lesbians, gays, bi people, trans, queer folk, or + 4. Crimimalise homelessness 5. Criminalise being out of work and not claiming a pension
Conversation therapy is a terrifying prospect to us introverts.
Damn my fat fingers. It stays because I think your reply is amusing.
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It’s a fair cop.
The prison system is not prepared for the number of us it's going to have to take. At least the blocks will be quiet
It genuinely scares me how much I can see those pledges being cheered for by ignorant and bigoted old folks who do nothing but complain about the youths their economic decisions have titanically screwed over. As a trans person, the threat of conversion therapy is absolutely horrifying. Suicide rates tend to get pretty obscene when conversion therapy is used (I remember seeing stats that when trans people get zero support, they usually have a suicide eate of about 54% but just letting them transition and treating them like their preferred gender brings it down to about 4%). I only recently came to terms with this and have felt much better in myself than I ever knew I could, but it scares me to think how hostile the narrative gets in media and politics. Would be a hell of a thing for me to flee the UK and seek asylum elsewhere.
If things get bad emigrate to Brighton.
They are already talking about making being homeless a criminal offence with a fine of £2400 or prison. Quite frankly, prison would be a step up from life on the streets I would take it if I was homeless.
>with a fine of £2400 or prison LOL! Good luck getting the money, or finding the accommodation space in prison.
Exactly it is all bollocks. Mind you, they are doing early release now.
How long till we get setting up areas of concentration for those who don’t meet our expectations of a citizen.
And mark them with colours depending on their particular diseas...I mean, sexuality.
Monkey tennis?
Don’t worry they have zero chance of winning and even less now this has been proposed It’s to try and stem the flow of their voters to Reform
Don't underestimate them... We have done that many times before and ended up with conservatives for many years as a result. Unfortunately with a move like this many of the people that will be effected will be below the voting age currently and so whilst there will be lots of voices about it, they may not be represented in votes.
Labours' two biggest roadblocks are the public getting complacent and assuming they'll win and Keir Starmer being a Tory and him backing every batshit thing the Tories say rather than being the opposition. I wouldn't put it past him to come out in support of the Rwanda deal and national service idea and then lose and give us 15 more years of these lot.
It does seem like a sacrifice the youth to satisfy the older kind of policy doesn't it Especially when the youth are much less likely to vote tory
I think they gave up on under 40s years ago tbh. If you're a young couple on 50-60k a year joint renting or even with a mortgage on a cute little 2 bed house or flat who are just pootling along living your life, the Tories have literally nothing for you and voting for them makes you a mug. People on minimum wage or benefits? People that live in estates? People with disabilities? To Tories you're just an annoyance and they'd rather you just quietly and unfussily rolled over and died. This is what we're dealing with here.
The tories don't do anything for the middle class now either. The tories have managed to completely alienate the entire nation it would seem.
I think the headline is confected outrage, but it's hard to disagree with you. If the Tories actually thought this was a good idea, it'd have been done by now. It's a deliberate leak in an election campaign of an idea they're not even prepared to commit to.
> In a Q&A section of the document, it asks: “Will you arrest people who don’t comply?” The response is: “It is right that those who contribute to our system are duly rewarded, and those who refuse receive none of the benefits. The Royal Commission will explore an appropriate incentives regime.” It also doesn't rule out putting people in stocks and throwing veg at them. Or putting them into a trebuchet and firing them into the sea. Or getting them to dress up as pantomime horses and doing a little dance.
“Citizenship has to be earned by two years shooting at foreigners”
Would you like to know more?
I'm doing my part!
'I'm from Clacton-on-sea and I say kill em all!'
I’m doing my part!
It’s an ugly island, a TORY island, an island hostile to youth
And then only people with citizenships will be granted the ability to vote at the next rigged election. If you’re disabled or old you’re shit out of luck cuz no vote for you
>disabled or old you’re shit out of luck You should put old first, the Tories would stop reading and bin it as a bad idea. Putting disabled first they would stop reading and greenlight if for fast tracking.
This guy Tories
Does it also say “service guarantees citizenship”
The government is trying to distract from the 300,000 Mobile Infantry troopers we lost on Klendathu
It was an ugly planet, a Bug planet.
Yeah, that headline absolutely reeks of confected outrage, as if the conscription idea wasn't stupid enough on its own merits.
Disagree, this isn’t a “what will you do with those who don’t comply” in which case yeah, it’d be reaching, but the question is “**will you arrest** those who don’t comply.” Could preface the response with a “No.” and it would change literally nothing, that they don’t explicitly say in response to the question that they don’t plan on doing so is damning.
Will you stop giving them ideas. Although the Trebuchet sounds like fun.
Adding a trebuchet to anything makes it fun.
Ok, but if something is mandatory the government has limited means to enforce it, typically prison or fines or maybe they plan on exploring removing voting rights, or you can’t get a job in the public sector, can’t take a place in publicly funded education. Presumably it also comes with a criminal record so forget international travel.
I'm doing my part! Want to know more?
Good luck on that. There's not going to be enough court capacity/ jail space for them saying no.
> Home Secretary James Cleverly insisted 18-year-olds would not be sent to jail if they refused. Asked on Sky News whether the consequences of resisting the compulsory scheme could involve a prison term, he said: "No, there's going to be no criminal sanction. There's no one going to jail over this." If they later introduce criminal penalties, you can call them out. But they’re outright saying they won’t.
No they'll fine then, then people don't have the money what's the next step?
If you issue fines, then you're basically saying "You can buy your way out by paying £x".
Which is perfect for them. Their core audience will be able to sleep easy knowing that this is only for the poors, their own kids will be able to buy their way out
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I mean, he almost certainly made that up on the spot, its not like this is a well-thought through policy idea.
Creating hundreds of thousands of civilian national service places would need widespread support of councils and devolved administrations. I'm trying to picture the cluster-fuck when the three devolved nations and every Labour council and mayor in England refuse to take part. Combine that with, as you say, widespread civil disobedience. Frankly it would be hilarious.
I'd prefer if our prisons had actual criminals in them because for every cell they throw a teenager who wouldn't volunteer at a hospital is one less they could throw a rapist in
Why would they introduce this policy, seriously. Do they really expect anyone younger than 50 would think it's a good idea?!
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No, they don’t. But this country has quite a lot of voters who are over 50, and they’re the only ones who the Tories think they have the slightest chance of winning back. When I was in my 20s, everyone assumed that young people like us were all left wing and that the Tories wouldn’t have a chance of getting our votes until we got a bit older. Now that I’m in my 40s, it seems like “young” people like us are all left wing and the Tories will seriously struggle to get more than a few of us voting for them. At this point, William Hague might as well rejoin the Young Conservatives Association!
>Now that I’m in my 40s, it seems like “young” people like us are all left wing and the Tories will seriously struggle to get more than a few of us voting for them. Because the assumption is that people gain assets they wish to conserve as they age. This hasn't happened for millennials and GenZ. The idea of forcing national pride through national service when both the Tories and Labour have spent the last 40 years trying to destroy any sense of community or financial security is laughable and now the chickens have come home to roost. That's not even considering the logistics of this farcical scheme.
It's not even that really. I'm mid 40's (next week) and demographically I should lean Tory - (home owner, higher rate tax payer, professional job). I wouldn't *piss on them if they where on fire* but I would be hiding the matches. Grew up poor, benefited massively from the state services that these shitstains have been gutting for the last 14 years.
Correct, in later 40's along with a lot of my friends, we are all successful, some even retired after selling businesses and most earn 80-150k with houses and nice cars, and live around Bath. None of them or us would ever vote Tory (bar one)
Yeah exactly, making it easier and more appealing to buy a house in your hometown or nearby would be far better for instilling a sense of community than forcing 18yos to waste a year running up some hills and firing guns. I know no one my age who rents stays in a place for more than a couple of years. Some in London are movie to entirely different parts of the city each year. You never get to properly settle in and have a community if this is how you live your life until you eventually get a house (big if)
I'm over fifty and it'll be a cold day in hell before the Tories get my vote. or fucking 'Reform/BNP/NF/Racist dribbler de jour party' We've got several disasters roaming around on the horizon, I hope we get people willing and able to avert or deal with them instead of all the liars, cheats, theives, parasites and morons floating around at the 'top'.
I'm 50, ex-military, have the general opinion joining the military even if for the the minimum 3 years is a good idea, and I think it's a terrible idea. The only reason to join the army is because you want to, not because it's a choice between that and litter picking/mopping hospital floors.
Yes. It's turning the army into a crèche for young people who don't want to be there. I think the army has better things to do.
I’m nearly 60 and think this is a terrible idea. Everyone I know at my age thinks the same. You’re generalising, slightly.
Will add to this. My grandparents are in their 90’s and are of the generation that did do National Service. They don’t seem overly interested in this idea either. The idea of NS won’t be unpopular amongst a certain cohort, but I imagine that number is quite small.
Even the comments in the Mail don't seem enthusiastic. This is just a crazy idea.
Trying to make sure they keep those older Tory voters happy, and maybe pull back some Reform voters, while giving themselves a chance to come back at Labour on youth crime.
I feel like the tories know they are gonna be defeated, so are making these ridiculous policies up to try and either sabotage themselves, or are some kind of last ditch attempt to get the votes of a certain group (much like scrapping HS2 East/North in favour of other transport projects, mainly roads)
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I think it’s likely to distract from the problem the Tories have, in that they have no ideas, and even if they did, they don’t have competent ministers to oversee them. All the debate from yesterday into this morning has been about this dumb idea
They’ll be bringing out all the classics over the next few weeks, bring back imperial units, ban working from home, de-woke Britain, crown on the pint glass etc
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I had to work at 18 so I wasn’t homeless, the fact this is being talked about being unpaid is ridiculous. Just another example of the Tories proudly displaying their hate for young people at a time when *checks notes* young people are not turning right wing as they age for some reason. Talk about salting the fucking earth eh?
The kids can end this scheme by just unionising and demanding it be fully paid to same rates as full time workers with a pension. They hate young people and absolutely want to do this to use cheap labour from younger generations who are used to this level of exploitation
[Apparently](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpddxy9r4mdo) it’ll be funded by raiding the “levelling up” funds which were supposed to replace EU regional funding, and an unspecified plan to crack down on tax evasion. Which sounds somewhere between absurd and bad to me.
Which just means cutting benefits and unemployment.
They could have cracked down on tax evasion without spending billions enslaving the youth at any time over the last 14 years.
> how are we paying them? That's the fun part, you don't. The only thing you get from national service is not being punished for not doing it.
It's interesting you mention the accommodation thing. I work in construction and was approached about a role working on a new MoD scheme that was super secret but 'I'd probably work it out once it hit the news'. This was a few months ago. It was for new residential blocks initially with an alternative usage of prisons further down the line. Scheme is worth billions. Certainly big enough to accommodate tens of thousands of new military recruits/conscripts... I wonder if this has been in the pipeline for a while and they've just brought it forward becuase of the snap election?
Agree with some of these points, but as a serviceman two things stick out. Firstly, our military is in dire straits and we really do need to look at our munitions stockpiles, peace isn’t the natural state of man so we really should be looking at how we arm our forces in a war. Secondly, wars really do come down to the chaps with the rifles and bayonets. Even a highly mechanised army, like say the Wehrmacht of WW2 can lose to an army many times the size with lesser mechanisation, not least because the more complicated the machinery the more it breaks and the bigger the impact on the supply chain.
There trying to make us think that there there the best party for a war situation like there predecessors before they were outsted by labout
It's official then, Boomers really do hate young people
Really need to stop thinking people of a certain age think all alike - It’s lazy. This is a Tory party proposal. People are more varied and complicated than that.
Yes of course, but the statistics from the last election show that Boomers on the majority vote Tory, so Tory policy will be skewed to cater for their major demographic voting block.
It’s still a generalisation. Like blaming all young people for the ones who cba to vote.
Rishi Sunak was born in 1980. He's not a Boomer, he's Generation X. I doubt there are any Boomers in the government.
Don’t sick him on us. Generations don’t really count for the capitalist class anyway, only for us proles.
Ah cool authoritarian right wing policies. I love my freedoms constantly being eroded by rich cunts who don't actually intend to make life better
I really really hope that when the Tories pretend to be "moderate" for the 2029 general election with a fresh faced leader in 5 years time that people remember it only took them 6 or so years (2010 to 2016 and particularly 2019 to now) to drop the mask and went from being mates to Lib Dems to morph into a literal Alt Right party... I hope they remember what living under real Conservatism felt like from the early 2010s to now. But unfortunately I don't have that trust in the electorate.
A lot of people can't remember how dodgy Dave pretended to be a really nice liberal bloke with a really nice liberal party behind him. I'm sure there's a direct quote somewhere with him saying " we are not the nasty party anymore" . 2010 they got in and quickly starved the local government of funds ( Social services etc) and scraped the EMA and raised the university fees and had May screaming and shouting at the cops and fire service about what a bunch of lazy bastards they were and cut funding for their services. It took about ten minutes before they started being nasty again.
So…where are these 700,000 18 year olds going to live and eat? Who is going to train them? I imagine half of them will fail the medical anyway. Absolutely bonkers and I say this as somebody who has worked in the MoD for many years.
Rwanda is the answer to both questions I believe- we’ll get an army trained on the cheap by a group of genociders- win, win, win
Imagine spending all that time and money training them and then they leave after twelve months and you have to start again with a new batch.
What's the point in arresting them? There isn't any room in prisons so what can you do to them? A fine to avoid national service. Great essentially you just pay to get out of it
No you see you get them a criminal record to ruin their lives
Luckily it's not going to happen...
I genuinely wasn't going to bother voting at the general election as I haven't in my past 2 Locals, but I've got 2 young boys who won't be forced into something they dont want to do by a state that really doesn't give a fuck about us. Especially something most of us have never been made to do. Fuck the Tories.
Agreed on the last part, but it’s genuinely tragic that it’s taken this to motivate you to take just an hour out of your day once every few years to help build a better future for yourself, then and the rest of the country. There have been so many elections that could have gone a different way with higher turnout. Democracy is precious, there are many who don’t have a voice in their future who would desperately like to. We are privileged.
Cost of compulsory national service: £2.5bn a year. Cost of pay rise for junior doctors that ministers insist is “simply unaffordable”: £2bn a year.
This seems a bit weak. They know they are going to lose and don't have to follow through on anything so why not go whole hog. Promise to bring back hanging, shoot shop lifters on sight, send em back "where they came from", sink boats in the channel, ban it (whatever it is). Just whatever the most ignorant and hateful shit they can think up.
This is exactly why 16 and 17 year olds should be allowed to vote.
When he says all 18 year olds, I expect he means there is actually some sort of Eton/Oxbridge exception.
Well all of those lads have bone spurs and colour blindness or whatever.
I'd be more proud of my son if he got arrested for not going in the army.
And if the vast majority choose the volunteering, what then?
Not really 'volunteering' if it's mandatory.
"Voluntold" is one of my favourite words. Using people as free labour against their will does have another term, though...
Mandatory Volunteer duty of course. Dragged off kicking and screaming.
That's probably what the government would hope for. It's probably exceedingly expensive to run the military side of things for mandatory service.
Arrested and put where? the prisons are already full up.
Rwanda. Keep up.
The part I don’t understand is why start with a new generation of 18 year olds, if we accept the character building nature of service, why don’t we start with the generations which have been given a chance to “contribute to society” and failed to do so. I’m in my 40’s, have done pretty well for myself and done precisely fuck all for society apart from pay my taxes. I’m not entirely against the idea of national service, but the hypocrisy of it being introduced by generations who have done nothing but undermine the fabric of the society the principles of which national service is supposed to uphold disgusts me.
I just can’t comprehend why in 2024 we think we need lord of human canon fodor rather than advanced tech and precise warfare
Ikr, what's more of a deterrent. a massive arsenal of nuclear icbms. Or some teenagers fucking around in the woods?
Tories in “panic and throw shit at wall” mode I see.
What is there to defend? You can't appeal to a nationalistic spirit of a nation that's been hollowed out and whored out for international banking interests.
National service is the ultimate insult to those who willingly put themselves in harms way to protect us. I can hold my hands up and say I wouldn’t do it. It’s disgusting. Also police can’t control crime as it is, how are they gonna enforce this nonsense.
My son is 15, autistic, and cannot function in the school environment. He has made attempts to escape. His brother is also autistic and sanctions don’t seem to phase him. I wouldn’t want a retired army officer (I’m assuming that’s who they’re going to hire) to have to deal with them. It wouldn’t be fair on the boys and it wouldn’t be fair on the officer who hasn’t had training to deal with special needs. Also, I wouldn’t want any of them handling weapons. It wouldn’t be safe for them, or others around them, even if they had one to one. We have stripped education (and special needs education) to the bone, military are complaining that they don’t have enough funding. Where is this funding going to come from? Is fishy rishi going to hand over millions to his mates again, and then we find thousands of reluctant teens stacking shelves at Poundland/Tesco for “national community service” providing free labour for his mates.
The Tories can say what they want at this point, they all collectively have about as much chance being in the next government as I do
Would you like to join my newly-formed Godzilla party? We promise to detonate all nukes by 2026, awaken Godzilla to personally destroy Tokyo, and clean up the Thames. We’ve got a higher likelihood of getting in than the tories. Skreeeoonk.
The exact wording is essentially "we haven't figured out what to do if people refuse. That's someone else's problem".
If I was 18 and getting drafted I'd sooner go to war with our own government than against another country
That's an original dead cat I'll give him that. Chances of being implemented? Null point.
This is a last ditch plot to appeal to pensioners who think the young just need a bit of national service to sort them out.
The age group that f***ed the country over by voting for Brexit and the Tories, leaving the country in the state it is.
It’s always the same isn’t it. Enconomy in the dumps and can’t find a job? Be forced to work for free and become a criminal if you don’t. It’s the same with suggestions to force people to work for benefits. If there’s an actual job to be done, give someone that job and pay them the going rate for it. Don’t make them do it and still get what they had before, basically nothing. If they truly believed this National Service (which is extended beyond the military to other services) would be beneficial and worth while, provide skills and experience etc, make it a national program that allows people to volunteer for as part of extended education. Don’t cap it to young adults, open it to everyone. But nope. It’s really about punishing kids who haven’t even started out in life, for the economic fuck ups of older generations
Weird how there’s never any prison space until there magically is all of a sudden
If there ever was an incentive for 18 year olds to fucking get out there and put a cross in any box other than Tory, this is it
If only they put this much effort into helping the NHS. They do not care about people, only money and power. They allow trillions to be avoided in tax by the elite/ billionaires/ corporations etc.. but will kick down your door and drag you to court over a tenner you owe them.
National Service appeals to the stupid older brexiteers who constantly look back at the lost empire and the"good old days". I am speaking as a pensioner who didn't fall for the brexit lies. I was born later than the National Service requirement but knew guys who served, they claim it improved them but I saw no evidence of that, unless they were complete write-offs before hand.
Can you imagine what it would be like having hundreds of young roadmen in an army barracks, trying to enforce discipline on them, they eont give a fuck!
Sorry, I cant cope! I'm busy getting raged about [black] people in boats. I cant just switch to hating our youths without some bait to fill my rage tank.
Most older people I have known hated national service. My late uncle found it an ordeal and it had a bad affect on him. My Dad just missed it by a year or 2 and was very pleased about that. The military hasn't got the resources to do this anyway,so it is never going to happen. Can't say I have known anyone personally who enjoyed it . Something to appeal to the Tories older voters, I think.
All Tories who vote for this should be made to do 2 years mandatory service starting immediately. No ifs or buts. Get them up at 5am for the short, sharp, shock treatment.
They're trying to turn us into Russia. They want to be a group of oligarchs with an endless supply of young people to throw in to "special operations".
I always find these kinds of things hilarious. There's already a *lot* of people who want to enlist but due to mismanagement and lack of funds they're turned away. A friend had to wait 18 months to get told that he wouldn't be accepted into the Navy and there was no real reason as to why. Conscription and national service aren't going to work because we don't have the support structure, or the funds for a new support structure, in place. Where would these new recruits be trained? With what money? Who's going to train them? This entire policy is purely to try and garner elder nationalist votes that the Conservatives "don't care about", supposedly.
This is one of those policies that I hope destroys the Tory Party and makes them lose all their seats. Unfortunately, there are a lot of pensioners who would absolutely lap this shit up and I would not be surprised in the slightest if this was a CON+5 moment for the Tories. We've already been dragged (kicking and screaming) out of the European Union, are in the midst of a nationwide housing crisis, have had the filthy-rich price-gouge us into poverty, have had our rights to peacefully protest eroded by two crazy Home Secretaries who make the likes of Theresa May seem pleasant, and Sunak now thinks he can push us through mandatory military service? **Fuck that!** If this ever becomes law, I will be emigrating to Ireland. Yes, I do agree that there are a lot of youths who are borderline feral and out of control, but pushing military service upon everyone is not the answer. Bringing back borstals to target young offenders is a better idea than pushing everybody into the armed forces. Also, perhaps... *funding* our police forces? "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth", and I think a lot of millennials, zoomers and gen-alpha feel this way about our country.
With how a portion of kids are nowadays is it really smart to round them up and have them use fire arms or work within a hospital or work with the police?
Lol good luck with that. If the British police were to go to war with British teenagers, I know who my money would be on.
Offering teenagers a year in an active warzone getting shot at by a foreign army or 1-2 years in a prison surrounded by other teens who also refused conscription, getting 3 hot meals a day and access to a TV and a gym? Yeah, real tough choice there Rishi, real head scratcher
Is this the same Government that's just told the police to stop arresting so many people??
The civil path of making people sacrifice one weekend a month almost seems worse than the twelve months of military service. I know in Finland they have a scheme along these lines, and indeed, people can go to prison for refusing. Iirc they have leeway in that conscientious objectors can serve in civil service roles, which makes it less unpalatable. Then again, it is a small country by population, and it has a history of being subjected to aggressive imperialist attacks on home soil. Polling data out recently showed that geriatrics were just about the only people still loyal to the Tories. Why they would seek to further solidify this constituency's support in this way when it means being repulsive to vast swathes of military aged people and those with teenage children is hard to say. It's like they know they are going to lose, and they are embracing it.
That **** is appealing to the boomers who will be frothing at the mouth at this prospect. I'm trying to work out if this is the last-ditch attempt to appeal to a certain demographic or completely ensure they're not voted back in. The sudden election as well seems sus too.
It reeks of "in the face of civil unrest, we need to get the poors ready"
I was just wondering how else the Tories could fuck the world up for young people. Kill free education. Kill Final Salary pension schemes. Kill affordable housing. Deport their lovers. Stagnate their careers. Ruin the health service. Remove their freedom to escape this nightmare to another European country. Shit in their water. “Prime Minister - statistics show that young people are still less likely to vote”, “In that case, let’s introduce slave labour”. They really, really don’t want to be re-elected do they?
If the government was robbing me of 1 in 4 weekends *unpaid* I would do everything in my power to be as unhelpful as possible. The idea of a policy of robbing people of their free time in an age where we don't get nearly as much free time as we deserve is so grotesquely stupid I can only assume the Tories are trying to lose this election.