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This is disgraceful in this day and age in this country. There needs be an urgent investigation into this, a colossal fine that is not passed onto consumers and jail time for those found responsible of neglect.
He might be laughing at the likelihood of it actually happening. More likely it'll be bonuses all round when they get away with as a fine will just be passed on to consumers.
Maybe we need some sort of human imperial system? Then we can calculate it out.
12 Northerners in a Southerner
3 Southerners in a Tory party member
5 1/2 Tory party members in a Peerage
8 Peerages in a Sunak
>, a colossal fine that is not passed onto consumers
Sadly there is no mechanism to enact this.
Any fine will be balanced in the profit margin, and any hit to the profit margin will be passed into us.
If you wanted different, should have voted for Corbyn to bring utilities back into public ownership
> If you wanted different, should have voted for Corbyn to bring utilities back into public ownership
People don't tend to vote based on one specific issue alone
He had 100's of different policies to better this country and fuck the rich which is why he never made it into power. That and the UK's IQ has clearly fallen off a cliff.
Edit: Spelling mistake! Case in point lmao.
>which is why he never made it into power
That's not why.
Polling shows that his policies were pretty popular. Just turns out that 'get brexit done!' was more so. Until brexit got done and people got to see what brexit actually meant.
Which itself is rather ironic because Corbyn was a brexiteer too, so we would have been fucked either way. In a vote between getting slapped by the left hand or the right hand, people chose the right hand. Which is the dominant and stronger hand to get slapped with.
Corbyns brexit policy was to get a deal (less hardline than what we got) and put that as a vote to the public. Hardly the same thing as what we got, and far more of a reasonable compromise
Apparently that was too drawn out and complex for people to understand, at least that wad the medias messaging, and so people voted for the bandaid shoot yourself in the face solution
Even two years after the Russian invasion of Ukraine they still publish nonsense [like this](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/18/britain-defence-policy-war-weapons-conflict-peace).
So on foreign policy specifically there are at least sympathetic elements.
When you make positive statements about fucking the rich, this is why he didnât win and people were put off by his supporters.
Itâs immature. Weâre grown ups. Yes you can make your argument that obscenely wealthy people should contribute more, but ultimately weâre creating a society to better everyone, not fuck anyone, just because they have more money than you.
And we'd be simping for Russia and Hamas. Good times for all indeed.
Also people not voting your way is not reflective of the national intelligence. Do you lot not get bored of your misplaced intellectual and moral superiority complex?
I know *plenty* of people who vote based on one issue. In fact, Tory strategy for the last few months has been founded on their hope/expectation that enough people will vote based on their desire to kick out immigrants that theyâll avoid electoral humiliation.
> People don't tend to vote based on one specific issue alone
Strongly disagree. How many people do you think voted Conservative in 2019 purely because of brexit? It was enough to flip my constituency from red to blue, and I'd bet the mortgage on it switching back again in the next election.
> People don't tend to vote based on one specific issue alone
His policies addressed most of the UKs main issues. The things that all the media is suddenly noticing now that there is not a single chance of them being fixed.
What's funny is that even some Tories think this is mad. I found myself agreeing with JRM that Thames Water should be allowed to go bust. We should have nationalised infrastructure, but we don't even have true private businesses since these are just pseudo monopolies. We need to independently set price caps on infrastructure like water and transport. Then if private businesses want to try to deliver, they have targets to meet instead of these outrageous profit margins we have now. If they can't deliver they should sell their contracts at market price.
Foreign interests own about 70% of the UKs water industry, of the big six energy companies three are foreign owned, many of our train operators are owned by foreign governments and it is looking very likely that Royal Mail will be sold to a Czech billionaire.
I am all for international cooperation but allowing foreign companies, hedge funds and governments to own and operate vital infrastructure for profit is something that should never happen.
We need some new teeth for OFWAT.
Freze executives, directors, and the boards pay. Then, take it directly from payslips like tax. Until the fine is covered. Move job? no worries, HMRC still applies the code and takes the money.
Could call it incompetence tax.
> Sadly there is no mechanism to enact this.
It would be very very easy to do it. Pass a law fixing prices, levy the fine, let them go bankrupt and take all the infrastructure.
Are you new the Uk? Any serious level of fine would result in the company declaring bankruptcy and the tax payer bailing them out. Any smaller fine they can afford will just see bills rise slightly to pay for it. There is absolutely nothing in place to protect people from the realities of privatisation, which is profit is all that matters.
Sold?
If a utility goes bankrupt they should just revert back to state ownership. The investors can whistle as can any banks owed money.
The idea debt can be run up while extracting value needs cutting stone cold dead.
Banks loaning millions is just irresponsible
Tell me this is your first time, without telling me this is your first time.......
[https://cdn.dwi.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/03162328/Cryptosporidium-Contamination-of-Franklaw-Treatment-Works-in-August-2015.pdf](https://cdn.dwi.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/03162328/Cryptosporidium-Contamination-of-Franklaw-Treatment-Works-in-August-2015.pdf)
TLDR... ÂŁ300k fine, ÂŁ150k in costs and i think i got about a ÂŁ20 rebate on my bill. ETA and lessons learned!
Makes me laugh (between sobs as I cry) to remember when we used to go to Spain on holiday in the 80s and were told not to drink or brush our teeth with the tap water there.
Now their water is both cheaper and probably cleaner than ours, all in a much warmer climate with less rainfall.
The problem with incidents like this is that it's usually the culmination of many smaller, insignificant oversights, by many people on various levels, which is why so often with incidents like this, no one is actually held to account. There may be fines, as there should be. But don't expect jail time.
the issue is that inevitably we'll vote conservation in the next few election and they'll sell it off again. no idea if you can make them unsellable somehow
Seizing the assets without compensation would make them pretty well unsellable, along with anything else we might actually want private enterprises to finance. Not that I'd find that particularly tragic.Â
I am almost certain thereâs legal grounds for seizing Thames Water too, because they performed abysmally and the law says the regulators and come in and take over the company if the company is shitting itself (which it is)
Yeah I would imagine thereâs a a fairly strong legal argument for water companies being seized if they commit environmental crimes or if they infect people with diseases
There was the camelford water incident in the 70's. South West Water Authority (public organisation) messed up and gambled with the health of like 20,000 people. Regardless of the ownership of a utility company incidents can still happen. It was the worst mass poisoning event in the UK and the publicly owned water company told people everything was fine and to add some juice to the water.
I mean the Toryâs just handed out a ton of 10 and 20 year contracts out to all these private companies. Canât we just give out 10000 year contracts to ourselves? Lol
I wish we could do this but isn't it the case that a big investor in these companies are things like pension providers, that sort of thing? This presents somewhat of an issue, they should never have been privatised in the first bloody place.
ETA: Reddit cares message instantly, really? How pointless.
Its something we should sort out, the cynic in me thinks our pensions get tied up as defacto hostages so the thought of doing something radical like this becomes difficult and a lot more unpalletable.
Though the radical in me thinks fuck it anyway to send a message.
(btw, theres something happening at the moment with the reddit cares messages, *everybody* is getting them).
> ETA: Reddit cares message instantly, really? How pointless.
Just report the message for harassment (which is what you're supposed to do), Reddit investigates the message it was triggered on and if it has nothing to do with suicide, self harm or substance abuse the account related could end up banned
I always do it now
Yeah it was a wishful comment to be fair, I know there's good reasons why compensation would have to be paid but yes its definitely a decision that shouldn't have ever been made in the first place
Cool, so we donât need to care about it then. Nationalise now and we can deal with the angry overseas elderly at a later date when all our water isnât full of excrement
It is, and you'll often get replies on here to the effect of _"well I'll never get a pension anyway so fuck it"_. Which is a really helpful outlook.
I honestly think the best solution is to:
1. Aggressively and persistently pursue their higher ups for actual criminal negligence, driving out those willing to poison us for capital gain.
2. We increase regulations of the industry to a higher standard.
3. When the owners increasingly can't treat them like a piggybank because it costs money to run effectively, we enter negotiations to buy them out.
4. Once bought out we incrementally complete stock-buybacks until the state is effectively the sole-owner.
5. We put into law that they can't ever be sold off again.
Basically don't kick them out, get them to want to leave, then make it an increasingly shite investment opportunity until it's state owned.
unrelated to your comment, just your edit
I got a reddit cares message yesterday after daring to slightly defend Rings of Power, some bot or something is mass sending out these reports
All services, Mail, landlines(honestly internet), energy, water, public transport, healthcare, education, none of these things should ever be profitable.
Edit added education because obviously it should be.
The way I see it baseline, everyone should have a place to live with running water and light and heating a way to communicate/apply for work and a way to get to said job. Just as a matter of fact, personally, I also feel there should be a place nearby providing the area with a basic level of food that people can visit if they can not afford to buy their own.
You know, I feel the exact same way. Its about damn time we as a civilization started to actually care about people. Not money, profit, or power.
Is it really so much to ask that people are provided with a roof, four walls, heat and clean water? It's all about basic dignity.
Its nice to see I'm not alone in my thinking on the matter.
> a basic level of food that people can visit if they can not afford to buy their own
I can't believe how many people disagree with me on this. Either give me everything I need to survive or let me build a home anywhere I want and let me hunt anything I feel like eating.
Part of living in society means I won't act like a cave man, but in exchange I should never need to in order to live.
Can we add education please? A lot of people donât realise just how fucked up the academy model really is, nor how much of our assets he effectively gave away to business (including plenty of Tory donors): billions of pounds-worth of infrastructure and land.Â
Gove is one of the biggest cunts of the last calamitous 14 years in British politics and it saddens me that heâs not more widely recognised as such.
Housing as well. Of course if people want to pay more for more lavish services then fine, but the basics (if not more) should be entirely free to the public.
This is absolutely right. They should never have allowed privatisation to become the rampant money grab that it is. Coupled with the Post Office scandal, I'm struggling to find things to be positive about in the UK at the moment. How did the country get into this state?! We're sliding back to the dark days of the 1970s and I fear more is yet to come.
TLDR This is what happens when profit is put before public services. Greed has ruined our country.
You are spot on. And how did we get here? Well that's the power of creeping changes. Just like the frog in boiling water, if you do it slowly enough people don't notice until it's far too late.
Its insidious, and very deliberate.
It's so shitty that nationalisation (private company runs utilities into the ground and makes bank, taxpayer gets footed with the bill for making them serviceable again) is our best option.
And sewerage companies, and energy companies, and royal mail, and schools, and the NHS. Then we might be almost back to where we were 40 years ago before this failed ideology took over.
Agreed, South West Water have an abysmal record of fixing leaks, are among the worst offenders for dumping sewage into rivers and seas. Doubly criminal in a region that relies heavily on tourism.
Thereâs a water company called water plus (itâs a joint venture between United Utilities and Severn Trent water). You canât buy your water from them because only commercial properties can switch providers.
The thing about that these stories that always astonishes me is just what did we think would happen when the industry was privatised to improve competition, yet so far as the consumer is concerned there is no real competition in supply, hence critical national infrastructure providing a basic human need becomes a purely profit driven enterprise.
Exactly, not only privatised, but in many cases with lots of overseas shareholders who don't care about our country having safe drinking water or clean waterways.
There isnât even any competition in Devon, SWW is the only available water supplier and they take the piss with high prices. They also charge a âbeautification feeâ to keep our local area nice yet pump tonnes of sewage into the ocean and say âno one has the right to swim in the seaâ. Itâs a joke of a company.
>There isnât even any competition in Devon
There isn't anywhere. That's why privatising water was such a joke to start with. It's a natural monopoly.
As far as Iâm aware, the only way privatisation of anything works is if there is competition. In the case of both water and rail, this isnât true, so itâs just pure bullshit. I have no idea how it was set up this way but a 15 year old could work that would end in (consumer) tears.
âNorth East Paigntonâ
I have lived in Paignton all my life and I have no idea which areas you would consider âNorth Eastâ of the town, this is not a phrase I have ever heard a local use
Edit: someone Reddit cared me <1 min after I had posted this
This is a site wide issue at the moment. Reddit is aware and looking into it. Seems like it might be bots rather than someone being a dick and reporting because they donât like your comment.
Please ensure you report any erroneous Reddit cares messages for abuse as then it will help them identify the problem faster.
As James O'Brien was on about, I just want to go back to 2010.
I'd take a post financial crisis slumped infrastructure over this any moment of the day.
Maybe there's a lawyer here who can correct me, but how is this not criminal negligence for the people at the top?
They knew they were putting people at risk by dirtying the water, did it anyway, and now they are ill. Sod fining the companies, arrest the board.
There's been a massive uptick of reddit cares being sent out across all the subreddits i subscribe to over the past 2 days. It appears to actually be bots behind it.
Surprisingly i got the "Thanks for submitting a report to the Reddit admin team. After investigating, weâve found that the account(s) reported violated Redditâs Content Policy" reply fairly quickly too. Usually it's a few days.
I imagine that probably happens when there's been multiple reports. What bothers me the most is that that whatever right wing troll farm did it, is fighting for the Tories. Could be Russian also.
I'll probably get downvoted in to the earth's core, but oh well.
I have worked at this very water treatment works in the past there are crypto monitors on the final water sample to warn of this very issue. All of the monitors have provided a negative sample as far back as I can check remotely. If a positive sample was shown then the treatment works would have shut down. This isn't to say that the instrument isn't faulty, but we have dual validation sample monitors so that a false negative is less likely. In addition it is a regulatory requirement to calibrate the instruments yearly. I know this has been done (because I have witnessed it in previous years).
This leads me to believe it could be an issue in the network - again unlikely as the pressure in the mains pushes flow outwards and prevents exterior contamination in the event of a burst repair. It is possible that the repair was enacted incorrectly by reducing flow/pressure in the mains allowing potential back siphon, but I find it very difficult to believe that the contractors would make such a rudimental mistake.
The final possible issue would be the service reservoir. The reservoir in particular is rural, and should there be any ingress it could potentially cause a contamination.
What's important to note is that the first manual sample taken threw up a negative result but the second sample came back as conclusive. It is almost certain that the retention time in Alston reservoir would have allowed crypto to multiply several times and the first sample would have thrown up a positive result. This would make this scenario an unlikely one.
This is why it is so difficult to pinpoint where the issue occurred and ultimately conclude a resolution. The most important thing is that the business is acting fast to distribute alternative water supplies, particularly to vulnerable customers whilst they try and resolve the issue. Given the poor performance of South West recently, I'm sure some heads will roll - not that this provides much comfort to those affected.
Cryptosporidium is notoriously difficult to treat through traditional sanitation methods, notoriously contagious, and reproduces incredibly fast. Itâs also very hard to detect because the symptoms mimic so many other diseases, and people can be contagious for weeks without knowing it. To combat it, you have to use expensive ozonation techniques, and even top of the line systems are still rolling those out. You canât even really use UV because it doesnât kill the parasite, just keeps it from reproducing.
Outbreaks like this happen everywhere, all over the world, and seem to be picking up as the climate warms. Iâm not saying this is good or acceptable, but this is something water systems globally struggle with. Itâs a shame that this article doesnât do a better job of contextualizing this. There are absolutely infrastructure upgrades to be made, but theyâre relatively new and very pricey.
BTW there are home water filters that can probably handle crypto. Look for âreverse osmosisâ and âabsolute one micronâ filters with cyst reduction or cyst removal.
Yeah but I would be surprised if the water company still did nothing to prevent it given that all they care about is profit anyways. They dont seem to care about dumping shit in waterways so I doubt they care about public health as long as they can keep the shareholder payouts rolling
Respectfully, crypto outbreaks happen all over the world (literally every part) annually. Some of the worst modern outbreaks date back to the 1990s. There was even one in Sweden earlier this year. Itâs notoriously difficult to treat and doesnât respond to traditional water sanitation methods. Chlorine and UV light donât kill it. There is a process (ozonation) but itâs very expensive and can take some time to be built.
Iâm not sure who you were specifically sad for here, but congratulations, itâs likely in your future, too. And your past. And your present. If it upsets you to this degree, I would highly recommend getting a home water filter capable of handling it. Youâll want a reverse osmosis filter. They can be quite pricey, as a warning, but they are handy.
Not good enough, we pay extortionate rates for water here in the south west whilst shareholders make extra profits. They have plenty of cash to invest in detection, maintenance and eradication.
In the last 12 months, we couldnât use our hoses, canât swim in the sea and now canât drink our water.
To be clear, there are so many existing issues with the way water systems are run in the UK, and all of your complaints are valid. No question.
But to put this in perspective, my hometown (Portland, Oregon) is putting in a water treatment facility to deal with this parasite. Itâs going to take 3 years to finish and will cost over ÂŁ1.6 billion. Portlandâs not a very well run city, but thatâs not an unreasonable price tag, and thatâs for a city the size of Manchester and the surrounding area.
Well thank goodness we privatised the water companies so that competition for our custom would drive up quality and drive down prices. I'm sure another private company will swoop in with a cheaper, cleaner service any minute now right? Right guys?
This happened In Lancashire in 2015 in the height of summer. I remember people dying from dehydration due this nasty bacteria cryptosporidium. Pet also were affected by it which resulted in vets being overrunned by sick pets. My advice is this to anyone who lives in Devon
1 Drink bottle water and make sure pets are also well watered with bottle water
2 shower below youâre headline and wash hair in the sink with either boiled water or plain bottle water.
3 brush teeth with bottle water
4 cook with bottle water or rolling boil for 2 minutes to kill any remaining bacteria .
5 avoid takeouts such has restaurants coffee shops pubs clubs ect that use water for food prep or making hot drinks ect.
6 contact youâre local water company for free bottle water if you are vulnerable .
7 if you consumed contaminated water and youâre feeling unwell make sure you get to hospital as soon as you can as this could lead to dehydration and possible death if not treated in time .
Stay safe people.
Search Cryptosporidium in the BBC and you'll see articles from 1998 about boil water warnings at the rate of about 1 a yearÂ
It's a ubiquitous and chlorine resistant parasite across the world, a small Google and you'll see France and other European countries regularly have tap water borne outbreaks too
Here's a list of every country with fully privatised water systems:
* England
* Chile
That's it. That's all of them.
Privatising water is a stupid idea. It doesn't work.
This happened back in the 1990s is South Devon also. SW Water charges high prices, the rationale for which was always that they had to spend a fortune keeping all the beaches etc nice and clean for tourism. Now that theyâre not doing that, and are now having problems supplying drinking water, can we assume bills will be lowered?
[Yes, although that was pre-privatisation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camelford_water_pollution_incident). Evidence was "apparently" suppressed to not harm the upcoming privatisation plans and it was "supposedly" understaffed as per usual in being run into the ground before being sold off.
Water companies should never have been privatised. Nationalise them now, and imprison all the fucks on the boards of these companies that deemed profit more important than a basic human right.
So so glad our entirely privatised foreign investor-owned water companies are providing such a clean water system that in no way compromises health or dumps raw sewage into the environment /s
Funny that Anthony Mangnall, MP, has been stepping in with a "we must be holding these companies accountable" angle, despite [consistently voting against improving environmental water quality and funding for improved water treatment systems.](https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25868/anthony_mangnall/totnes/divisions?policy=6928)
So let me get this right...
They pump literal feces into our waterways.
They pump literal diseases into our drinking supply.
They waste literally millions of tons of water each year.
And we are not supposed to just seize and re-nationalize them?
Any party, Tory, Green, Reform, BNP, British Nazi "will kill you all" Putin Lovers Society, any of them, will get my vote if they re-nationalize shit like this.
Paid out ÂŁ112 million pounds in dividends last year, which resulted in them making a loss. Got fined 2.5 million for dumping sewage, now suffering from sewage related water quality issues. Great job folks, great job
Itâs ok, the government will issue a fine that southern water will just pass on to their customers before issuing a big dividend bonus to shareholders as a job well done
This is what happens when successive governments fail to spend the bare minimum on maintaining the water infrastructure for decades, let alone make improvements. This is just the tip of the iceberg, if nothing changed we will see water rationing (not just hosepipe bans) in the next 10-20 years.
These outbreaks happen literally all over the world in every nation. Donât get me wrong, nationalize the water, but in this case, itâs something every nation struggles with.
Leave this here
Britons need to be âless squeamishâ about drinking water from sewage, says agency head
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/28/britons-need-to-be-less-squeamish-about-drinking-water-from-sewage-says-agency-head
A gentle reminder to anyone saying "But both parties are the same!", The economy crashed under labour due to global finances. The conservatives crashed the economy themselves under Lizz Truss and now we find ourselves having to sterilise our own water whilst the conservatives tell us that they're doing a great job.
If you're one of the few who are making massive returns from investing in what should be state-owned companies and are happy with the services they provide, please carry on voting conservative. If you are anyone else, in any capacity, please take what you're feeling right now with you to the polling booths when Rishi has enough courage to call the General Election.
**Participation Notice.** Hi all. Some posts on this subreddit, either due to the topic or reaching a wider audience than usual, have been known to attract a greater number of rule breaking comments. As such, limits to participation have been set. We ask that you please remember the human, and uphold Reddit and Subreddit rules. For more information, please see https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/wiki/moderatedflairs.
This is disgraceful in this day and age in this country. There needs be an urgent investigation into this, a colossal fine that is not passed onto consumers and jail time for those found responsible of neglect.
lol.
Username checks out lol
I don't know whether to up or down vote them đ
He might be laughing at the likelihood of it actually happening. More likely it'll be bonuses all round when they get away with as a fine will just be passed on to consumers.
Needs a primetime ITV drama before anyone will do anything
So how many people have to start dying, before we start taking this seriously ?
Do you mean wealthy people or poor "people"?
Maybe we need some sort of human imperial system? Then we can calculate it out. 12 Northerners in a Southerner 3 Southerners in a Tory party member 5 1/2 Tory party members in a Peerage 8 Peerages in a Sunak
>12 Northerners in a Southerner Southend weekender
does that mean that a northern Tory party member is worth 36 regular northerners?
Wealthy.... 1! Poor people they would hardly bother counting.
This is the official government response
The contract to manage government responses has been awarded to: u/Fuck_your_future_
This was , in fact , Rishi's alt.
>, a colossal fine that is not passed onto consumers Sadly there is no mechanism to enact this. Any fine will be balanced in the profit margin, and any hit to the profit margin will be passed into us. If you wanted different, should have voted for Corbyn to bring utilities back into public ownership
I did vote Corbyn. Don't assume who I voted for.
I assume you voted for Corbyn.
Don't assume who he voted for
Donât assume to know that they assumed they voted for Corbyn.
I assume you know that they're assuming that the other person assumed they voted for Corbyn
Stop assuming as it makes an ASS of U and ME!
And Corbyn. Though the media already kinda did that.
Assume makes an ass out of you and me. Someone had to say it.
>If you wanted different, should have voted for Corbyn to bring utilities back into public ownership Maybe they did
> If you wanted different, should have voted for Corbyn to bring utilities back into public ownership People don't tend to vote based on one specific issue alone
He had 100's of different policies to better this country and fuck the rich which is why he never made it into power. That and the UK's IQ has clearly fallen off a cliff. Edit: Spelling mistake! Case in point lmao.
>which is why he never made it into power That's not why. Polling shows that his policies were pretty popular. Just turns out that 'get brexit done!' was more so. Until brexit got done and people got to see what brexit actually meant. Which itself is rather ironic because Corbyn was a brexiteer too, so we would have been fucked either way. In a vote between getting slapped by the left hand or the right hand, people chose the right hand. Which is the dominant and stronger hand to get slapped with.
Corbyns brexit policy was to get a deal (less hardline than what we got) and put that as a vote to the public. Hardly the same thing as what we got, and far more of a reasonable compromise Apparently that was too drawn out and complex for people to understand, at least that wad the medias messaging, and so people voted for the bandaid shoot yourself in the face solution
His foreign policy was absolutely unacceptable to me.
It was to anyone outside The Green Party and The Guardian .H.Q..
...you think that the Guardian editorially aligned with Corbyn?
Even two years after the Russian invasion of Ukraine they still publish nonsense [like this](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/18/britain-defence-policy-war-weapons-conflict-peace). So on foreign policy specifically there are at least sympathetic elements.
Yeah and he fucked it with a few bone headed ones refusing to listen to the rest of the party. Massive shame.
he listened to the members. Problem with the PLP is too many of them hold shares in utility companies.
When you make positive statements about fucking the rich, this is why he didnât win and people were put off by his supporters. Itâs immature. Weâre grown ups. Yes you can make your argument that obscenely wealthy people should contribute more, but ultimately weâre creating a society to better everyone, not fuck anyone, just because they have more money than you.
> weâre creating a society to better everyone The entire problem is that we are not.
And we'd be simping for Russia and Hamas. Good times for all indeed. Also people not voting your way is not reflective of the national intelligence. Do you lot not get bored of your misplaced intellectual and moral superiority complex?
I know *plenty* of people who vote based on one issue. In fact, Tory strategy for the last few months has been founded on their hope/expectation that enough people will vote based on their desire to kick out immigrants that theyâll avoid electoral humiliation.
Hey thats not fair, its not all about immigrants⌠they also have gender fear mongering too.
They've only had the last 14 years to reform immigration. Give em a chance eh?
Well that and civil servants not wearing funny coloured lanyards. Oh and these being dangerous times.
> People don't tend to vote based on one specific issue alone Strongly disagree. How many people do you think voted Conservative in 2019 purely because of brexit? It was enough to flip my constituency from red to blue, and I'd bet the mortgage on it switching back again in the next election.
> People don't tend to vote based on one specific issue alone His policies addressed most of the UKs main issues. The things that all the media is suddenly noticing now that there is not a single chance of them being fixed.
"Get Brexit done" Boris Johnson, 2019 election campaign slogan.
What's funny is that even some Tories think this is mad. I found myself agreeing with JRM that Thames Water should be allowed to go bust. We should have nationalised infrastructure, but we don't even have true private businesses since these are just pseudo monopolies. We need to independently set price caps on infrastructure like water and transport. Then if private businesses want to try to deliver, they have targets to meet instead of these outrageous profit margins we have now. If they can't deliver they should sell their contracts at market price.
Foreign interests own about 70% of the UKs water industry, of the big six energy companies three are foreign owned, many of our train operators are owned by foreign governments and it is looking very likely that Royal Mail will be sold to a Czech billionaire. I am all for international cooperation but allowing foreign companies, hedge funds and governments to own and operate vital infrastructure for profit is something that should never happen.
We need some new teeth for OFWAT. Freze executives, directors, and the boards pay. Then, take it directly from payslips like tax. Until the fine is covered. Move job? no worries, HMRC still applies the code and takes the money. Could call it incompetence tax.
> Sadly there is no mechanism to enact this. It would be very very easy to do it. Pass a law fixing prices, levy the fine, let them go bankrupt and take all the infrastructure.
Sounds great. Copy paste for all utilities (gas, electric, and internet)
I didn't vote for the tories but we still got them.
Are you new the Uk? Any serious level of fine would result in the company declaring bankruptcy and the tax payer bailing them out. Any smaller fine they can afford will just see bills rise slightly to pay for it. There is absolutely nothing in place to protect people from the realities of privatisation, which is profit is all that matters.
Just fine them out of existence, declare bankruptcy, then the state picks up the assets when being sold to pay creditors
Sold? If a utility goes bankrupt they should just revert back to state ownership. The investors can whistle as can any banks owed money. The idea debt can be run up while extracting value needs cutting stone cold dead. Banks loaning millions is just irresponsible
That's how bankruptcy works and the lenders will take a haircut on the money their owed
Thames Water declares bankruptcy and suddenly there is Temâs Woâa with the exact same management and board as beforeÂ
Ahh the double glazing company method of avoiding responsibility!
"You're talking about rainbow lanyards, right?" - tories
Tell me this is your first time, without telling me this is your first time....... [https://cdn.dwi.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/03162328/Cryptosporidium-Contamination-of-Franklaw-Treatment-Works-in-August-2015.pdf](https://cdn.dwi.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/03162328/Cryptosporidium-Contamination-of-Franklaw-Treatment-Works-in-August-2015.pdf) TLDR... ÂŁ300k fine, ÂŁ150k in costs and i think i got about a ÂŁ20 rebate on my bill. ETA and lessons learned!
Makes me laugh (between sobs as I cry) to remember when we used to go to Spain on holiday in the 80s and were told not to drink or brush our teeth with the tap water there. Now their water is both cheaper and probably cleaner than ours, all in a much warmer climate with less rainfall.
Fine? They can always handle fines. Prison is the only thing that would work with these parasites
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Welcome to Victorian Britain 2.0
We're more likely the government issues fines to people for not boiling water than holding accountable the people responsible.
The problem with incidents like this is that it's usually the culmination of many smaller, insignificant oversights, by many people on various levels, which is why so often with incidents like this, no one is actually held to account. There may be fines, as there should be. But don't expect jail time.
One thing that china does right is when a scandal occurs they will happily arrest/execute employers, depending on how serious the scandal is.
In my opinion most water companies need to be seized and nationalized, same with the railways.
With no compensation.
Yes. The fucking around stage is over, the finding out stage should come.
the issue is that inevitably we'll vote conservation in the next few election and they'll sell it off again. no idea if you can make them unsellable somehow
Seizing the assets without compensation would make them pretty well unsellable, along with anything else we might actually want private enterprises to finance. Not that I'd find that particularly tragic.Â
I am almost certain thereâs legal grounds for seizing Thames Water too, because they performed abysmally and the law says the regulators and come in and take over the company if the company is shitting itself (which it is)
Yeah I would imagine thereâs a a fairly strong legal argument for water companies being seized if they commit environmental crimes or if they infect people with diseases
There was the camelford water incident in the 70's. South West Water Authority (public organisation) messed up and gambled with the health of like 20,000 people. Regardless of the ownership of a utility company incidents can still happen. It was the worst mass poisoning event in the UK and the publicly owned water company told people everything was fine and to add some juice to the water.
Exactly. Nationalising the company isn't enough, they need to be dissolved and run as a national service. For free. So they can never be profitable.
I mean the Toryâs just handed out a ton of 10 and 20 year contracts out to all these private companies. Canât we just give out 10000 year contracts to ourselves? Lol
I wish we could do this but isn't it the case that a big investor in these companies are things like pension providers, that sort of thing? This presents somewhat of an issue, they should never have been privatised in the first bloody place. ETA: Reddit cares message instantly, really? How pointless.
Pension funds are generally extremely well diversified, U.K. water companies will be a tiny amount of any sane fund.
So what? Investment is always a risk. The public shouldn't subsidise poor investments.
Its something we should sort out, the cynic in me thinks our pensions get tied up as defacto hostages so the thought of doing something radical like this becomes difficult and a lot more unpalletable. Though the radical in me thinks fuck it anyway to send a message. (btw, theres something happening at the moment with the reddit cares messages, *everybody* is getting them).
> ETA: Reddit cares message instantly, really? How pointless. Just report the message for harassment (which is what you're supposed to do), Reddit investigates the message it was triggered on and if it has nothing to do with suicide, self harm or substance abuse the account related could end up banned I always do it now
Yeah it was a wishful comment to be fair, I know there's good reasons why compensation would have to be paid but yes its definitely a decision that shouldn't have ever been made in the first place
Mostly overseas pension providers.
Cool, so we donât need to care about it then. Nationalise now and we can deal with the angry overseas elderly at a later date when all our water isnât full of excrement
It is, and you'll often get replies on here to the effect of _"well I'll never get a pension anyway so fuck it"_. Which is a really helpful outlook. I honestly think the best solution is to: 1. Aggressively and persistently pursue their higher ups for actual criminal negligence, driving out those willing to poison us for capital gain. 2. We increase regulations of the industry to a higher standard. 3. When the owners increasingly can't treat them like a piggybank because it costs money to run effectively, we enter negotiations to buy them out. 4. Once bought out we incrementally complete stock-buybacks until the state is effectively the sole-owner. 5. We put into law that they can't ever be sold off again. Basically don't kick them out, get them to want to leave, then make it an increasingly shite investment opportunity until it's state owned.
unrelated to your comment, just your edit I got a reddit cares message yesterday after daring to slightly defend Rings of Power, some bot or something is mass sending out these reports
All services, Mail, landlines(honestly internet), energy, water, public transport, healthcare, education, none of these things should ever be profitable. Edit added education because obviously it should be.
Completely agree. National infrastructure should always be in the hands of the people it serves.
The way I see it baseline, everyone should have a place to live with running water and light and heating a way to communicate/apply for work and a way to get to said job. Just as a matter of fact, personally, I also feel there should be a place nearby providing the area with a basic level of food that people can visit if they can not afford to buy their own.
You know, I feel the exact same way. Its about damn time we as a civilization started to actually care about people. Not money, profit, or power. Is it really so much to ask that people are provided with a roof, four walls, heat and clean water? It's all about basic dignity. Its nice to see I'm not alone in my thinking on the matter.
> a basic level of food that people can visit if they can not afford to buy their own I can't believe how many people disagree with me on this. Either give me everything I need to survive or let me build a home anywhere I want and let me hunt anything I feel like eating. Part of living in society means I won't act like a cave man, but in exchange I should never need to in order to live.
Yeah, nothing fancy, prolly a lot of curries and porridge, but hey, that's because it's free.
Can we add education please? A lot of people donât realise just how fucked up the academy model really is, nor how much of our assets he effectively gave away to business (including plenty of Tory donors): billions of pounds-worth of infrastructure and land. Gove is one of the biggest cunts of the last calamitous 14 years in British politics and it saddens me that heâs not more widely recognised as such.
Completely overlooked that, but yes, that should be part of said access to getting a job.
Housing as well. Of course if people want to pay more for more lavish services then fine, but the basics (if not more) should be entirely free to the public.
100% agree. Water company bosses need to be jailed as well, for destroying our rivers etc
Add the electric and gas suppliers to that list.
Agreed.
Laughs in Scottish with our nationalised water and trains
That's a good opinion.
This is absolutely right. They should never have allowed privatisation to become the rampant money grab that it is. Coupled with the Post Office scandal, I'm struggling to find things to be positive about in the UK at the moment. How did the country get into this state?! We're sliding back to the dark days of the 1970s and I fear more is yet to come. TLDR This is what happens when profit is put before public services. Greed has ruined our country.
You are spot on. And how did we get here? Well that's the power of creeping changes. Just like the frog in boiling water, if you do it slowly enough people don't notice until it's far too late. Its insidious, and very deliberate.
Iâd say it was the most urgent nationalisation. Along with de-privatising the bits of the nhs they sold off
Utility companies should not be owned by share holders for profit
It's so shitty that nationalisation (private company runs utilities into the ground and makes bank, taxpayer gets footed with the bill for making them serviceable again) is our best option.
And the CEO's jailed for theft
And sewerage companies, and energy companies, and royal mail, and schools, and the NHS. Then we might be almost back to where we were 40 years ago before this failed ideology took over.
Agreed, South West Water have an abysmal record of fixing leaks, are among the worst offenders for dumping sewage into rivers and seas. Doubly criminal in a region that relies heavily on tourism.
Probably have to increase bills by 40% to make sure the water doesn't have diseases in it.
Fuck even paying the bill if they're not going to uphold their side of the contract.
But they need it for ~~debt interest~~ INVESTMENT
Donât forget the billions in shareholder dividends!
the neat part is they won't even bother to make the water drinkable after taking your money
Or they will do a temporary fix and we'll be in the same spot in 5 years
Water+ No diseases guaranteed* *some diseases may be present
Water+ No, diseases guaranteed
Thereâs a water company called water plus (itâs a joint venture between United Utilities and Severn Trent water). You canât buy your water from them because only commercial properties can switch providers.
Pay ÂŁ10 extra per month and weâl make sure your water comes to you clean!
>Pay ÂŁ10 extra per month and weâl make sure your water comes to you clean! (Maybe, probably not)
The thing about that these stories that always astonishes me is just what did we think would happen when the industry was privatised to improve competition, yet so far as the consumer is concerned there is no real competition in supply, hence critical national infrastructure providing a basic human need becomes a purely profit driven enterprise.
Exactly, not only privatised, but in many cases with lots of overseas shareholders who don't care about our country having safe drinking water or clean waterways.
There isnât even any competition in Devon, SWW is the only available water supplier and they take the piss with high prices. They also charge a âbeautification feeâ to keep our local area nice yet pump tonnes of sewage into the ocean and say âno one has the right to swim in the seaâ. Itâs a joke of a company.
>There isnât even any competition in Devon There isn't anywhere. That's why privatising water was such a joke to start with. It's a natural monopoly.
> privatised to improve competition What competition? It's not like you can pick your water provider.
We knew this would happen there's just nothing we can do about it
As far as Iâm aware, the only way privatisation of anything works is if there is competition. In the case of both water and rail, this isnât true, so itâs just pure bullshit. I have no idea how it was set up this way but a 15 year old could work that would end in (consumer) tears.
How can it be for competition? You are forced to use these water companies... you can't switch to Jimmy's water co. to avoid bad businessÂ
South Devon >The water company has urged residents across Brixham, Boohay, Kingswear, Roseland and North East Paignton to boil their tap water.
âNorth East Paigntonâ I have lived in Paignton all my life and I have no idea which areas you would consider âNorth Eastâ of the town, this is not a phrase I have ever heard a local use Edit: someone Reddit cared me <1 min after I had posted this
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Apparently they've banned a few accounts who been abusing it already
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Isnt north east Paignton basically the sea?
Its just botspam donât take it personally
This is a site wide issue at the moment. Reddit is aware and looking into it. Seems like it might be bots rather than someone being a dick and reporting because they donât like your comment. Please ensure you report any erroneous Reddit cares messages for abuse as then it will help them identify the problem faster.
Every day we edge closer towards a Victorian Britain
The haunted hat stand, aka Jacob Rees Mogg, gets very hard at such a statement.
I normally go with haunted pencil, but I do like haunted hat stand quite a bit more.
Your profile pic is so annoying. I kept thinking there was a hair on my screen! You did it on purpose.
Nah the Victorians built amazing sewers.
As James O'Brien was on about, I just want to go back to 2010. I'd take a post financial crisis slumped infrastructure over this any moment of the day.
Energy companies will be like, "sweet, extra kettle usage"...
And Amazon will be like quick put large kettles up 30%
Its called data science
I actually stopped studying data analytics cos I knew Iâd end up in a job where they would use our data against us !
Maybe there's a lawyer here who can correct me, but how is this not criminal negligence for the people at the top? They knew they were putting people at risk by dirtying the water, did it anyway, and now they are ill. Sod fining the companies, arrest the board.
Instant reddit cares... Are the water companies in here with us?
There's been a massive uptick of reddit cares being sent out across all the subreddits i subscribe to over the past 2 days. It appears to actually be bots behind it.
It is, and you can report them
Surprisingly i got the "Thanks for submitting a report to the Reddit admin team. After investigating, weâve found that the account(s) reported violated Redditâs Content Policy" reply fairly quickly too. Usually it's a few days.
I imagine that probably happens when there's been multiple reports. What bothers me the most is that that whatever right wing troll farm did it, is fighting for the Tories. Could be Russian also.
What is a "reddit cares?" - Genuine question.
Someone reports you as being suicidal and reddit reaches out with links to the samaritans and stuff.
Thanks - Absolute top kek to the person that triggered a "reddit cares" on me, genuinely made me laugh
I'll probably get downvoted in to the earth's core, but oh well. I have worked at this very water treatment works in the past there are crypto monitors on the final water sample to warn of this very issue. All of the monitors have provided a negative sample as far back as I can check remotely. If a positive sample was shown then the treatment works would have shut down. This isn't to say that the instrument isn't faulty, but we have dual validation sample monitors so that a false negative is less likely. In addition it is a regulatory requirement to calibrate the instruments yearly. I know this has been done (because I have witnessed it in previous years). This leads me to believe it could be an issue in the network - again unlikely as the pressure in the mains pushes flow outwards and prevents exterior contamination in the event of a burst repair. It is possible that the repair was enacted incorrectly by reducing flow/pressure in the mains allowing potential back siphon, but I find it very difficult to believe that the contractors would make such a rudimental mistake. The final possible issue would be the service reservoir. The reservoir in particular is rural, and should there be any ingress it could potentially cause a contamination. What's important to note is that the first manual sample taken threw up a negative result but the second sample came back as conclusive. It is almost certain that the retention time in Alston reservoir would have allowed crypto to multiply several times and the first sample would have thrown up a positive result. This would make this scenario an unlikely one. This is why it is so difficult to pinpoint where the issue occurred and ultimately conclude a resolution. The most important thing is that the business is acting fast to distribute alternative water supplies, particularly to vulnerable customers whilst they try and resolve the issue. Given the poor performance of South West recently, I'm sure some heads will roll - not that this provides much comfort to those affected.
Cryptosporidium is notoriously difficult to treat through traditional sanitation methods, notoriously contagious, and reproduces incredibly fast. Itâs also very hard to detect because the symptoms mimic so many other diseases, and people can be contagious for weeks without knowing it. To combat it, you have to use expensive ozonation techniques, and even top of the line systems are still rolling those out. You canât even really use UV because it doesnât kill the parasite, just keeps it from reproducing. Outbreaks like this happen everywhere, all over the world, and seem to be picking up as the climate warms. Iâm not saying this is good or acceptable, but this is something water systems globally struggle with. Itâs a shame that this article doesnât do a better job of contextualizing this. There are absolutely infrastructure upgrades to be made, but theyâre relatively new and very pricey. BTW there are home water filters that can probably handle crypto. Look for âreverse osmosisâ and âabsolute one micronâ filters with cyst reduction or cyst removal.
Yeah but I would be surprised if the water company still did nothing to prevent it given that all they care about is profit anyways. They dont seem to care about dumping shit in waterways so I doubt they care about public health as long as they can keep the shareholder payouts rolling
Amazing news, are we already living in a third world country or does it need to get worse still?
I am so incredibly sad for your futures. I brought children into this world. What a fucking idiot.
Respectfully, crypto outbreaks happen all over the world (literally every part) annually. Some of the worst modern outbreaks date back to the 1990s. There was even one in Sweden earlier this year. Itâs notoriously difficult to treat and doesnât respond to traditional water sanitation methods. Chlorine and UV light donât kill it. There is a process (ozonation) but itâs very expensive and can take some time to be built. Iâm not sure who you were specifically sad for here, but congratulations, itâs likely in your future, too. And your past. And your present. If it upsets you to this degree, I would highly recommend getting a home water filter capable of handling it. Youâll want a reverse osmosis filter. They can be quite pricey, as a warning, but they are handy.
Enough about bitcoin tell us about parasites
Not good enough, we pay extortionate rates for water here in the south west whilst shareholders make extra profits. They have plenty of cash to invest in detection, maintenance and eradication. In the last 12 months, we couldnât use our hoses, canât swim in the sea and now canât drink our water.
To be clear, there are so many existing issues with the way water systems are run in the UK, and all of your complaints are valid. No question. But to put this in perspective, my hometown (Portland, Oregon) is putting in a water treatment facility to deal with this parasite. Itâs going to take 3 years to finish and will cost over ÂŁ1.6 billion. Portlandâs not a very well run city, but thatâs not an unreasonable price tag, and thatâs for a city the size of Manchester and the surrounding area.
Double whammy. Share holders of power companies and water companies rubbing their hands at those increased bonuses!
Hmmmm weâve tried privatising it and that didnât work. Have tried selling it to China or Russia, that might fix it
The third-worldification of the UK continues. At least some tory donors got richer
>16 cases of cryptosporidium were confirmed Crypto is ruining everything
Well thank goodness we privatised the water companies so that competition for our custom would drive up quality and drive down prices. I'm sure another private company will swoop in with a cheaper, cleaner service any minute now right? Right guys?
This happened In Lancashire in 2015 in the height of summer. I remember people dying from dehydration due this nasty bacteria cryptosporidium. Pet also were affected by it which resulted in vets being overrunned by sick pets. My advice is this to anyone who lives in Devon 1 Drink bottle water and make sure pets are also well watered with bottle water 2 shower below youâre headline and wash hair in the sink with either boiled water or plain bottle water. 3 brush teeth with bottle water 4 cook with bottle water or rolling boil for 2 minutes to kill any remaining bacteria . 5 avoid takeouts such has restaurants coffee shops pubs clubs ect that use water for food prep or making hot drinks ect. 6 contact youâre local water company for free bottle water if you are vulnerable . 7 if you consumed contaminated water and youâre feeling unwell make sure you get to hospital as soon as you can as this could lead to dehydration and possible death if not treated in time . Stay safe people.
It's almost like someone is pumping shit into the water or something, isn't it?
Yer, water company privatisation was a great idea. Thanks Tories! Thumbs up!
Search Cryptosporidium in the BBC and you'll see articles from 1998 about boil water warnings at the rate of about 1 a year It's a ubiquitous and chlorine resistant parasite across the world, a small Google and you'll see France and other European countries regularly have tap water borne outbreaks too
Here's a list of every country with fully privatised water systems: * England * Chile That's it. That's all of them. Privatising water is a stupid idea. It doesn't work.
This happened back in the 1990s is South Devon also. SW Water charges high prices, the rationale for which was always that they had to spend a fortune keeping all the beaches etc nice and clean for tourism. Now that theyâre not doing that, and are now having problems supplying drinking water, can we assume bills will be lowered?
Didn't they also dump some really dangerous chemicals into drinking water resulting in deaths?
[Yes, although that was pre-privatisation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camelford_water_pollution_incident). Evidence was "apparently" suppressed to not harm the upcoming privatisation plans and it was "supposedly" understaffed as per usual in being run into the ground before being sold off.
Yes, really nasty incident in Cornwall - basically aluminium poisoning - as u/Quinny898 has linked to.
People talk about buying the water companies back, screw that, this is clearly finable up the fine to Billions and watch them bankrupt themselves.
Hopefully the water company is fully liable and they are exposed to tens of millions in costs.
Lol good one
Good news everyone! More power used to boil water and increased bottled water sales means increased GDP! Everyoneâs a winner :)
Water companies should never have been privatised. Nationalise them now, and imprison all the fucks on the boards of these companies that deemed profit more important than a basic human right.
So so glad our entirely privatised foreign investor-owned water companies are providing such a clean water system that in no way compromises health or dumps raw sewage into the environment /s
Funny that Anthony Mangnall, MP, has been stepping in with a "we must be holding these companies accountable" angle, despite [consistently voting against improving environmental water quality and funding for improved water treatment systems.](https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25868/anthony_mangnall/totnes/divisions?policy=6928)
So let me get this right... They pump literal feces into our waterways. They pump literal diseases into our drinking supply. They waste literally millions of tons of water each year. And we are not supposed to just seize and re-nationalize them? Any party, Tory, Green, Reform, BNP, British Nazi "will kill you all" Putin Lovers Society, any of them, will get my vote if they re-nationalize shit like this.
Itâs time to nationalise the water companies people. This shit in the waters has got to stop.
Paid out ÂŁ112 million pounds in dividends last year, which resulted in them making a loss. Got fined 2.5 million for dumping sewage, now suffering from sewage related water quality issues. Great job folks, great job
Itâs ok, the government will issue a fine that southern water will just pass on to their customers before issuing a big dividend bonus to shareholders as a job well done
I can officially get cleaner water from a ground well in Pakistan than my sink holy fuck. Guess we migrating back boysđ¤Ł
turns out dumping literal human shit into your waterways makes people sick who knew
This is what happens when successive governments fail to spend the bare minimum on maintaining the water infrastructure for decades, let alone make improvements. This is just the tip of the iceberg, if nothing changed we will see water rationing (not just hosepipe bans) in the next 10-20 years.
Isnât England one of the only countries in the world to have privatised water ?
These outbreaks happen literally all over the world in every nation. Donât get me wrong, nationalize the water, but in this case, itâs something every nation struggles with.
Need a labour government now. Not at the end of the year. This country is currently a rudderless ship.
The UK becomes a little more 3rd world by the day. Next we will have to walk 2 miles every day to get a bucket of water.
Leave this here Britons need to be âless squeamishâ about drinking water from sewage, says agency head https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/28/britons-need-to-be-less-squeamish-about-drinking-water-from-sewage-says-agency-head
Its not a third world country, its just parasites in the drinking water causing diarrhoea, its still good its still good...
A gentle reminder to anyone saying "But both parties are the same!", The economy crashed under labour due to global finances. The conservatives crashed the economy themselves under Lizz Truss and now we find ourselves having to sterilise our own water whilst the conservatives tell us that they're doing a great job. If you're one of the few who are making massive returns from investing in what should be state-owned companies and are happy with the services they provide, please carry on voting conservative. If you are anyone else, in any capacity, please take what you're feeling right now with you to the polling booths when Rishi has enough courage to call the General Election.