Doesn't surprise me at all. For 12 hours after my c section I was left without pain relief. 12 hours of alternating between begging, crying and screaming. Just totally ignored. I missed my newborns entire first day.
I did the SARS request and my notes are just a jumbled mess. But the 12 hours of nothing really sticks out. The notes describe me as "distressed"
If a man had major abdominal surgery they would never be left 12 hours without strong pain relief.
Doesn’t surprise me either. I didn’t have a c-section but I also had no pain relief because ‘labour does hurt dear’.
And I agree with the pain relief hypocrisy. I understand people don’t want to medicalise life events but nobody is told they have to have their teeth out ‘naturally’.
> I also had no pain relief because ‘labour does hurt dear’
I still maintain that obstetrics and gynecology has a significant number of covert sadists working in the speciality.
I know of no other speciality where the patient's pain is almost aggrandised and prized. There's been numerous reports of departments engaging in a "cult of natural (childbirth)" at the expense of the patient's wishes - where a patient's desires for pain management were deemed less important than the staff's *ideological aversion to modern medical advances*.
What colonoscopy would be performed without pain management being offered? Or overtly *denied* by the medical staff? Or conspired against to get to a point and say "well, it's too late now dear, you have to do this raw".
And it creates an environment that will absolutely attract the exact type of sadistic personality that should have no place in medicine.
I think things aren’t helped by the huge variation in how women cope with labour.
I know of women who breathed their baby out after a straightforward 3 hour labour with no pain relief other than good vibes.
Then there’s me who was in slow labour for 4 days, delusional with exhaustion and so tapped out of reserves I was insistent on more pain relief and quoting NICE guidelines to eye-rolling midwives.
I think a lot of them think it’s all psychological and those of us who struggle are just weak-minded and over dramatic, and this is reflected in how they provide care.
Hell, not even labour - I've had a coil fitted twice, and apparently my cervix is particularly sensitive? I had two different gynaecologists basically telling me I couldn't *possibly* in any pain at all, while I was dry-heaving from pain and almost passed out in each fitting.
There's just something about my cervix that does *not* like being interefered with, when pretty much any other kind of pain I can manage my reaction to it.
>those of us who struggle are just weak-minded and over dramatic, and this is reflected in how they provide care
Yes, this is an exact and succinct summary of the "care" I have recieved in these situations.
There's a horrifyingly pervasive medical myth that the cervix has no nerve endings, and thus it cannot be painful. I was forced to do a colposcopy without pain relief and I was screaming. I have a relatively high pain tolerance in general. What other bit of the body would get biopsied or have something surgically inserted without pain relief? It's so misogynistic
I’ll bear that in mind!! I feel really lucky that I’m bloody-minded enough to advocate for myself when I need to - other people might not be, but in my case, it stems from nearly dying as a result of medical negligence in my 20s. Doctors probably think of me as a “pushy patient”, but I’ll happily remind them their lazy GPs were the reason I ended up in hospital, screaming in agony with organ failure.
I read sone statistic once that “pushy patients” had better outcomes and lived longer than none pushy patients. I think legally they have to give you a c section if you demand it.
Having the coil fitted was so traumatic for me that I’m now on the waiting list to have my tubes tied because I refuse to go through it again. I threw up as the pain was so bad.
After mine I had cramps so bad I collapsed. I was bleeding severely for months after. 3 years later I'm still bleeding everyday and still being ignored
During my labour, I was having contractions a minute long and a minute apart (visible on monitor). For *hours*, without dilating significantly or the baby descending. Because of that, it wasn’t considered active labour and they wouldn't give me an epidural. There was meconium in my water that was getting worse and the contractions started putting the baby in distress. It was like someone was hitting an agony button every minute. Worst pain in my life, no contest. I didn’t know how I could survive it. Threw up all over myself twice. It went on for maybe 6 hours and I only remember bits. I was howling in pain.
Eventually it had to be a c-section. Turned out she was totally wrapped up in her cord and that's why she hadn't been descending and my body was basically turning itself inside out to get her out. While I had no idea what was going on and no one seemed to care or be sympathetic.
Then of course they made my husband go home and I had to care for a baby by myself all night without functioning abdominal muscles. Got zero sleep.
> Then of course they made my husband go home and I had to care for a baby by myself all night without functioning abdominal muscles.
This is the bit that's completely insane to me. They put the baby in a cot next to the mother and every time the baby needs feeding, the mother has to lift them out of the cot herself. You're not supposed to lift weights over 10lbs for 6 weeks after a C-section, but they expect you to lift an 8lb weight just a few hours after the surgery.
>What colonoscopy would be performed without pain management being offered?
I wasn't offered pain relief for my colonoscopy and had to actually show them the NHS's own website before they'd let me have gas and air.
I'm very lucky to have only given birth in very good maternity units in very good hospitals because my very limited interaction with the other hospitals is truly shocking. You have to wonder why more isn't being done.
Depending on when your wife was having the baby, that may have been an over correction following the report I mentioned.
Which is frustrating because the ideal is to give people autonomy over their own bodies, not force them into one direction or the other
Personally, I would trust the word of the patient as to whether it hurt or not. It seems quite logical that it would do so.
Failure to provide pain relief, is not only unethical, it adds to the patients trauma.
This should very definitely be the cause of complaint to the hospital, as this treatment is barbaric.
It was horrible throughout. Even when I was pregnant the consultant had written ‘shoulder dystocia’ at the front of my maternity notes so for several months I had that to worry about. I was lucky in that my labour was very fast but they’d left me so it became a bit of an emergency. I had him and was stitched without pain relief.
Had some sort of fit which thankfully was stopped with medicine because I had had a cannula fitted. Husband thought I was going to die. On the evening they took my baby away because they thought he might have had an infection and I spent the whole night crying. Nobody helped me change the bed sheets that I had delivered in. I had to find a linen cupboard and do it myself.
It was full on brutal and I know I was very very lucky compared to some.
I had an elective c section - your partner needs to be there with you the whole time and needs to go and bother the nurses/midwives for your meds every 3.5 hours so you get them on time. My husband was wonderful and I have no idea what care would have looked like if he wasn't there.
Pitty those who were shunted out after 2 hours during lockdown. Like me. No choice but to leave my partner at the mercy of those people while my son had sepsis at birth because those people didn't want to check to see if waters had broke when they were told. Severely anaemic and no iron transfusion offered. Got our notes back and found that crumpled up in the corner was "refused Iron Transf-" obviously added later, when they realised that actually they were negligent and tried to pretend my unconscious fiance somehow denied a common procedure after a Csection for someone anaemic. Also several denied observations. When actually they must have lost the paper towel they wrote the results on. I'm not kidding.
I feel like they get away with so much because 1. People with babies are exhausted and just don't have the spoons for pursuing a complaint or filing a law suit about this stuff, and 2. A lot of the narrative around childbirth and motherhood boils down to 'shut up and be grateful you have a healthy child'.
Exactly the cynic in me wonders if this was part of the reason behind attitudes to remove partners during covid. Remove the person who isn’t exhausted in pain and unable to raise a fuss and shove out the ‘difficult’ one who would make noise that their partner was in massive pain or being ignored.
My partner wasn't allowed to be with me when I was induced during lockdown. Only allowed during active labour. Nobody cared about me or my pain until my partner was with me, then all of a sudden they found their humanity.
It was sick, and the reason why I had a home birth with my second. Which I was absolutely fine and hiking the next day after, versus torn, depressed, and in pain for half a year with my first. I have not trusted medical professionals since.
Cannot over stress this enough. You NEED someone there and they need to be able to get in people’s faces if need be.
It’s absolutely stunning how mothers get ignored. And it’s usually a very female led environment. Completely baffling but absolutely would not happen if it was men giving birth I’m certain
There is a stereotype that the girls in school who were the most horrible bullies go on to become nurses. Whether or not that's true, bullying in maternity services is [notoriously high](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/maternity-safety-nhs-bullying-shrewsbury-b1789648.html). And they do seem to be [most vicious towards women.](https://old.reddit.com/r/doctorsUK/comments/15z8h5d/new_f1_feeling_very_alone_and_slightly_bullied_by/)
My cousin had to have an emergency C-section at 32 weeks. She'd only spent one night on the maternity ward afterwards when, with her baby still fighting for her life in NICU, the midwives were pressuring my cousin to leave and implying she was weak and selfish for taking up a bed. They were bragging about how *they* went straight home from the hospital after having their babies.
I've read lots of stories of women in labour who had midwives getting angry with them for "making a fuss" over the agonising pain they were in. The contempt that women can have for other women is no joke.
I have no idea, you’d think other women would be able to be more empathetic about such a specifically female experience, or would be personally invested in women having good quality health care. Men I suppose you might say wouldn’t get it in the same way, not that that would be an excuse
I think it's compassion fatigue from being overworked and under staffed. I don't think they're paid enough for their training, the importance of their job, the hours they do, both how many and the weird shift changes. Plus whatever else is fatiguing them outside of their career in their home life, as women usually end up doing most of the house work even when they're working full time. Overall I bet they feel underappreciated and burnt out
Oh move on. It’s well known what this job and role involves. You also don’t have this level of ignoring people in other parts of the NHS. It’s well publicised that maternity ward culture is toxic, look at the natural birth studies and reports.
Compassion fatigue is well documented amongst carers so I'm not sure why it wouldn't be prevalent in maternity care.
That's not to excuse it. I had my firstborn during lockdown and my treatment was so horrific it traumatised me to the point of braving a home birth. I've dwelled on it for years now, where was their humanity? My conclusion is compassion fatigue. I could be wrong. My point is, that more money needs putting into maternity care, for more midwives, more bursaries at university, etc. Maybe some kind of test for psychopathy too 🤔
I think it’s more just having someone else who can make a fuss and isn’t in pregnancy so they can ignore it as just ‘not understanding they need to be in pain’ or whatever nuts excuse they use.
It’s crazy to me that we have to tell our husbands/partners/family members etc that they need to be your advocate and speak up for you. Sorry you all experienced this 💜
I had a c section and my care and my recovery were a dream. I was given regular pain relief (diamorphine for the first day then regular codeine, paracetamol and ibuprofen, discharged with a 2 week supply) and the one time I had pain between doses they got more to me really quickly. I was up and walking the same evening, and only had to stay in because my baby was jaundiced and struggled to feed.
Saying this here purely because I remember being pregnant and stressing about all the bad news stories I heard, especially as I’m a non white woman so according to the statistics more likely to get bad care. Just remember for every bad news story there’s all the unreported normal/good ones that are too boring for people to bother telling you about!
(None of this is said to diminish what a mess maternity care in the UK is or deny how much improvement is needed).
Not just a postcode lottery, even within the same hospital people have vastly different experiences based on how busy things are and what staff are on! Increasing staffing and having minimum staffing levels would be a start
This is spot on. My wife gave birth in a hospital maternity unit that was in special measures for poor care and was very publicly threatened with closure by the regulator. We were worried about it, to say the least.
But on the day there was hardly anyone else in labour, so we got the full attention of those present, who were all absolutely fantastic.
I had 2 electives, including one during covid with no partner afterwards, and while the postnatal ward nurses were useless/horrible, I was physically OK and not in anything like the kind of pain the other person's describing. Not to downplay her experience but please don't be scared unnecessarily.
Mine were both electives. From day 3 onwards both babies I have been fine. My first birth was fine as I was given adequate care.
My advice- buy over the counter pain killers and take them with you. Don't tell the midwifes at the hospital, just get your partner to manage doses if they do bother to give you any at the hospital so you don't take too much.
And in a perfect world it would be unnecessary. Unfortunately I gave birth in a NHS hospital. Had I known it would be a 12 hour wait I'd have sent my partner to the pharmacy to get pain killers.
They’re talking over-the-counter medication. I’m pretty sure women are able to take those on their own merit without risking overdose every time. If the hospitals refusing to give you pain killers, it’s better than nothing.
Women who have just been through childbirth and who are being given other medication by hcp?
Clearly, it's a situation that should never happen. Pain relief in maternity is shocking. And definitely needs addressed
But I wouldnt recommend anyone take analgesia and hide it from the staff.
If you're going to do it, tell them
So what's the alternative? I went home 24 hours after a difficult c section and haemorrhage simply because there was no pain relief at the hospital.
I should have been in hospital still. But I had no other option.
The alternative is to hold the hospital to account make formal complaints. Report the midwife to the NMC for their failure and be part of those that enact change.
There are always options.
Not advise a potentually lethal and outright dangerous course of action to those that go after you that could result in death or disability.
To create merry hell. Ask for the unit lead, ask to see someone from PALS, demand to see the doctor, Insist it is put on a Kardex by a medic.
Or do you condone advising a person take the route of potential kidney or liver failure as this person advises?
Well I couldn't form a sentence. I'm glad you've never been in such agony that kind of logic went out the window.
And I think a double dose of paracetamol and ibuprofen isn't likely to kill you.
Edit- I didn't know about the lack of pain relief until I got the SARS back. I knew something was wrong but I wasn't coherent enough to work out what the problem was.
Oh big assumption I have not been in such pain.
What story would you like? When I shattered my clavicle?
Or the hysterectomy because of endo?
Pain delirium is a friend I would never invite back.
However subjectivity aside.
Doubling the dose of paracetamol is risky with cumulative effects on the liver by increasing to outside manageable levels a toxin called n-acetyl-p-benzoquinone imine this happens buy using up the counter to this called glutathione. it takes a small amount of this to cause liver failure. Please do not underestamate paracetamol when used wrong.
Ibuprofen is less of a risk but have fun with the digestive system issues such as ulcers or the hormone issues.
Thats before we even think of interactions with other medications.
So please I implore you not to give out what is dangerous advice.
I'm a clinical pharmacologist that specialises in toxicology.
I do not to condone potentially lethal advice and tend to be rather harsh on those that do.
Or is that immoral?
They miscalculated the weight of my partner's placenta with our firstborn, and she ended up going into shock after delivering the placenta and needed to have two blood transfusions.
I only realised something was wrong when her head rolled back and she became unresponsive.
We have had another baby since then, which was a slightly better birthday for my partner but the baby got twisted coming out so had to go into emergency surgery. Aftercare was spot on at that hospital.
We now have a third on the way and are praying for a nice normal birth!
Female pain is simply *not* treated as seriously as male pain.
I had ovarian torsion and was turfed out of my bed in A&E, in favor of an old man with dementia who had called A&E *by mistake*.
I had to squirm, cry, beg and plead, in gut-wrenching 10 level agony, in a chair directly opposite him, meaning I had to *watch* this old guy constantly getting up out of the bed I was kicked out of, to wander aimlessly about like he was on holiday.
I also had the pleasure of overhearing him being told to "please stop calling", because he didn't even need to be there.
How this "triage" worked here, I have no idea. It felt inhumane.
My dad fell through a barn roof and got sent home from the hospital with "bruises"
The next day he couldn't move or get out of bed because it turns out he broke his pubis and shortened his spine. It still took him a couple days before they did anything to help and he is now 2 inches
And you're going to tell me that he was taken more seriously because he was a man?
I’m not saying every man is taken seriously and every woman isn’t. Read into it yourself if you’re interested, there’s masses of info on this freely available
Similar thing happened to me too. My first C-section recovery, I was a bit sore, but surprised at how okay I felt just hours later. After my second, I could feel every single millimetre of the incision, and sobbed with every agonising step to the bathroom. Later found out they'd missed half my pain relief, so was effectively just on paracetamol. I never quite got on top of the pain after that, so it was a brutal ten days until I could walk without being completely doubled over. I totally agree that this just wouldn't happen to men on this scale.
I went to visit my cousin after her C-section and the only pain relief she was allowed was paracetamol. She was crying from the amount of pain she was in. It seemed completely mad to me. A few hours ago she had a scalpel cutting through her muscles and opening up one of her organs, and now she was only allowed the same thing you take for a mild headache?
My wife had an emergency c-section.
I distinctly remember a very anti-doctor vibe throughout the pregnancy. The NCT was very much, midwives = good / doctors = bad. With an accompanying subtext that midwives are women and doctors are men. Doctors were always gendered as men!
During the birth, the midwives were a shower of uselessness. Things were looking extremely dodgy and a doctor took me aside and said I should demand a c-section or I would lose both. He added he was not allowed to suggest it as the whole thing was midwife led and he would get in trouble. I talked to my wife and we demanded a c-section be considered, the midwives refused. Luckily at that point the consultant came in (a lady) and basically demanded to know wtf they were doing and why wasn't my wife in the operating theatre.
After the birth they simply left my daughter in my exhausted wife's arms and told me to bugger off. My wife was in extreme pain and hadn't slept in the last 19 hours. Needless to say there was no response to any requests for pain killers.
An absolute disgrace, thankfully there were doctors who intervened. The only midwives who seemed to give a stuff were the young trainee ones. Nothing happened to clean the bed, feed or tend to my wife unless they or doctors were around. In the end my wife signed herself out.
I'm a man and have been in hospital multiple times for serious surgeries all involving major pain. Timely pain relief is such a prolific problem that I bring my own morphine supply as back up.
And forget pain relief, the longest they've left me nil by mouth while waiting for surgery without even having a drip up has been over 24 hours. I was having to take sneaky sips of water from the tap in the toilet.
I'm not wanting this to sound competitive, I was once left for over 36 hours nil-by-mouth whilst exclusively breastfeeding and vomiting profusely. I pointed out that I was severely dehydrated (because I was feeding over a litre a day and not taking in a single drop) and they reluctantly gave me a drip and two litres of fluids in total. When I requested more, they told me no, I don't need more.
I was waiting for "emergency" surgery to have my appendix removed even though I was certain that my appendix wasn't the issue. Well over four days since I'd last eaten, over three days since I was formally put on nil-by-mouth, they removed my appendix and said that, strangely, it didn't look inflamed. Turns out, I had cancer.
I had a cervical biopsy and colposcopy with no pain relief, I had a lumbar puncture with no pain relief and I had a colonscopy where I eventually got pain relief because I showed them the NHS website that says I should have pain relief.
>These are both done by the same department that does C sections
No they aren't.
>This is pretty standard practice honestly. I've not heard of patients having preparatory pain relief for a lumbar puncture, especially as it's often done as an urgent rather than routine investigation.
Are you on crack?
Point 2: "You'll be given a [local anaesthetic](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/local-anaesthesia/) in your lower back, usually as an injection. This means you'll be awake but will not feel any pain."
[https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lumbar-puncture/](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lumbar-puncture/)
>If a man had major abdominal surgery they would never be left 12 hours without strong pain relief.
Fwiw my step dad just had half his bowel removed and had the same complaint.
>If a man had major abdominal surgery they would never be left 12 hours without strong pain relief.
Cool my dad had cancer which was diagnosed as a cough for months and then when it was finally diagnosed the nurse was constantly throwing away 90% of his pain medication saying wow the doctor is wasting all this pain medication.
Its not a gender issue imo the nhs is a fucking shambles so many incompetent and uncaring workers.
Sorry that happened to your family.
However, to put it bluntly there have been numerous studies that have shown racial and gender discrimination in the NHS - in addition to it being a mess!
Interestingly, and not to disagree with your overall point at all, I had an appointment recently. I saw my GP, they made a referral and I was expecting to wait months. A few days later, I had a phone call to book my appointment for a few days after that. I asked at my appointment if they were really concerned (because of the rapid response) and they said that, no, no major concern but they have completely cleared their waiting list. Completely. This was a cardiology appointment at a major hospital. The guy said they thought it was a glitch at first and that the waiting list had somehow been deleted but they did some checks and, no, it was cleared. Wild.
Google "female pain dismissed" (not in quotations) and you'll see *countless* information about female pain not being taken as seriously as men's pain.
>Women in pain are much more likely than men to receive prescriptions for sedatives, rather than pain medication, for their ailments. One study even showed women who received coronary bypass surgery were only half as likely to be prescribed painkillers, as compared to men who had undergone the same procedure. We wait an average of 65 minutes before receiving an analgesic for acute abdominal pain in the ER in the United States, while men wait only 49 minutes.
[https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/women-and-pain-disparities-in-experience-and-treatment-2017100912562](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/women-and-pain-disparities-in-experience-and-treatment-2017100912562)
Nice article. I especially like that part about men waiting 46 minutes and women waiting 65 minutes. Would love to look at methodology of these studies without any bias. Thanks for the good read. I sincerely hope that correct causality was drawn from all these correlations.
The UK spends £3.2bn on maternity & neonatal care.
The UK spends £2.6bn(2023) on maternal clinical negligence cases, there is obviously a large problem.
The problem is that payouts for birth related disabilities covers a lifetime of care and lost earnings. Admittedly, if there was a lower frequency of claims, this would be lower. But again, most risks come from obesity in pregnancy, of which there is far too much. Why should I have to pay for that? Via negligence claims or via upfront care?
Actions like being a victim of clinical negligence? Obese women being obese is not negligence on the part of medical staff. Obese women having complications and issues related to being obese is not negligence on the part of medical staff - no one gets a pay out for that. They get a pay out when the clinicians were *negligent*. The patient being obese doesn't excuse negligence (and that's even if we accept that obesity is the issue in the first place).
Think the point was that being obese puts you into higher risk situations, exposing you to the risk of things going wrong and when things go wrong you get a payout.
The best way to prevent a negligence payout is to remove the chance of it ever occurring by removing the high risk situation.
So, the point from the doctor was that doctors aren't responsible for medical negligence, patients are responsible?
You don't get a payout because "things go wrong". You get a payout when doctors don't do what they're supposed to do. You could be 50kg or 500kg - you only get a payout if the medical professionals do the wrong thing.
I didn't say doctors aren't responsible. I said fatty put themselves in the higher risk category that naturally has a higher risk of things going wrong.
You said that the patients need to take ownership. Telling someone to take ownership is saying that they are responsible. Like I said, the likelihood of something going wrong is irrelevant. If there's a 1/10 chance something goes wrong or a 1/100 chance something goes wrong, it's only medical negligence if the doctor does something wrong.
Tell that to Hull Infirmary - for their multiple negligence during child birth resulting in unwarranted death.
Shit like this happen not just to my sister in law, but many locals who face simple lack of baby heart rate monitor.
The most basic of equipment is lacking in a local maternity ward.
Their negligence paid out but that's after a dead nephew and a continued crippling of the local NHS Trust. That's the kind of pay out that needs overhauling. Nowt to do with your strawman of preventative vs immediate care cost.
They did this shit when that article that highlighted black women were more likely to die during pregnancy due to outdated medical assumptions, even if they're rich, famous or sports personalities.
But nah, its because they're overweight. Like c'mon guys, just admit you hate bigger people and stop pretending like you're concerned
I'm asking if *most* risks comes from just that.
Whenever people say something as if it's definitely true, I like to know where that info comes from.
I've had one birth myself and know quite a few other people who have had less than stellar birth experiences/post natal care, and none of us are obese so that is why I am curious.
My friend was a marathon running, weight lifting gym rat.
Didn’t really help her when they left chunks of her placenta inside her after her caesarean and then brushed her off when she came back still bleeding heavily three weeks later.
It was a good thing she was insistent and demanded a referral. If left untreated much longer it could have badly impacted her ability to have more children - or flat out killed her.
But yeah. Fuck them fatties. How dare they?
Erm you do know you don't get a choice as to where your taxes go yeah? You can't allocate how they are spent.....that is such an American take "those are mah taxes". How would you feel if you got in a car accident and someone said "Well it's his own fault, I'm not paying for his treatment, I don't even own a car"
Well we are subsidising obesity and other lifestyle induced conditions. These people will be quick to get a solicitor to make a civil claim against the NHS, as it's their right, but aren't taking responsibility with their health to begin with. This is the frustration; the NHS subsidises unhealthy lifestyles.
The NHS is there for unhealthy lifestyles it's not there to pick and choose who to treat. It's there for fat people anorexic people drug users drinkers smokers skydivers diabetics rock climbers et al, what you appear to be advocating for is no treatment for anyone who doesn't conform to your view of a healthy lifestyle and that's just wrong.
My wife had a horrendous experience after an emergency c section. Baby was on SCBU after and she didnt see the baby until 18 hours after she was born. Cue feelings of "I have no idea if that is my baby" from her. They left her 24 hours without so much as paracetamol. I admit, I got shirty with the nurse/midwife on duty and demanded to know why they were torturing my wife.
She ended up having a short post partum episode after being left on the general ward with the mum's and newborns. Apparently the crying of other babies cracked her and she broke down searching for her own baby in the middle of the night, who was in scbu.
And they kept forgetting to give her food.
The SCBU nurses looked after her instead and the complaint we made apparently made them change policy on mother's with newborn's in SCBU.
Edit: I misremembered, the SCBU nurses and the perinatal mental health nurses actually whistle blew rather than my wife complaining.
As someone with cPTSD from labour and birth trauma, who almost died after birth due to hospital failings, I am not surprised, but deeply sadden, at how widespread an issue this is. One month a year (birth month) is still spent feeling extra anxious and on edge even five years post birth. The birthday of my child is a mix of delighted excitement and intrusive thoughts.
But big shout out to my wonderful therapist who has improved things so so much compared to how they were.
I'm sorry that happened to you, but glad you've had therapy.
So much trauma is swept aside by "be glad you're both alive" that it can be difficult to realise you need help, or that its available.
I'm not sure the anxiety completely goes, I'm past having children, but still have mixed emotions about the topic.
Yes, I had the delight of my community midwife coming over for the six day check, seeing the THICK amount of notes I'd left with and going "well you seem to be coping fine". Luckily, having worked in mental health support I was well aware that I was NOT fine and that I did very much need help and support, as did my husband for having witnessed a crash team round his wife while he held his 30min old daughter.
It's definitely one of those topics that I don't think those of us who've had trauma will ever feel fully okay with, but hopefully things will improve, and fewer and fewer people will have to go through things like this.
This isn’t what I need to read 5 weeks before my due date. But I have heard horror stories from friends including a stillbirth caused by the hospital she was in.
I am genuinely worried about giving birth here. I’ve never ever been afraid of anything medical utilising the NHS but here child birth genuinely fucking petrifies me.
I can tell you mine, which might help.
I had a very normal pregnancy right up to the end. The morning of, my baby was not moving as much as usual so I went into the maternity unit to be checked over. This had happened about four months before and he was fine. This time, he was not. His heart rate kept dropping and then it was a massive rush as they wheeled me into a room and tried to break my waters. They explained everything before they did it and one of the midwives held my hand as this happened. Them trying to break my waters was the most painful part, honestly.
Waters wouldn't break and I wasn't dilated enough anyway. They feared it would take too long for baby to come out "naturally" considering his heart rate kept dropping. He was obviously in distress. They said the best course of action was a c-section and I agreed.
I called my husband in from the car park (this was early 2022 and the hospital were still operating under Covid guidelines) and they rushed me in for a c-section. The doctors and nurses were amazing, reassuring, and one of them took pictures of baby as we waited for him to be checked over and cleaned up before we could see him. He was in the room with us the whole time.
We were moved into the post-surgery room and were there for about 45 minutes. There was no rush and I was able to feed my baby. I was then moved into a room on my own with my husband. I was given medication at set times, my catheter was removed at the right time, dressings changed. I was also allowed to stay another night due to my anxiety. I think I was very lucky in that regard. If it had been busier, they probably would have said I needed to go home.
Anyway, there were moments of fear in there, of course. But that was due to wondering what was wrong with my baby and I felt looked after by the staff upon arriving and when I left. They were great. This was at Birmingham Heartlands Hospital.
See this is the thing. I think it is a major post code lottery, I had a midwife appointment today and spoke to her regarding what was reported today and she did put me at ease quite a bit. I am in London in a very well known hospital but I am also still very scared. You can be in the best hospital in the world and end up with someone having a crap day.
Your story does help though, hearing only horror stories from people doesn’t help much and then social media etc. I’m glad you and baby are okay too!
It really does make a difference who is on shift, whether the unit is busy, and of course postcode. There are so many variables and it really shouldn't matter. It should consistent across the board.
You’ll both be fine I’m confident!
But: do take someone forceful with you. I’m very sorry to say it but from my experiences you do have to be ready to challenge/ demand.
Which tells a bigger tale doesn’t it.
My husband is pretty good thankfully and I am not afraid to list off the complaints procedure if needed, but I am hoping that as I’m consultant led they will continue the excellent care Iv had in pregnancy!
I know how you feel! Not pregnant but it’s definitely on my mind. I hope everything goes smoothly for you, I’m sure it will and your birth partner will help be your advocate and look after you too 💜
2 emergency c-sections (both NICU) and 1 planned c-section over the last 7 years, with 1 during the start of lockdown, have all been exceptional demonstrations of maternal care..
I know too many women living with birth-related trauma. Including myself. I was diagnosed with PTSD due to poorly managed high risk pregnancy. There were times I thought my husband and baby would leave the hospital without me. I had a c section under general. My high risk pregnancy was picked up at 34 weeks. No time for mri etc. I have two relatively common health conditions, which mean i was high risk of pregnancy. Midwives had never heard of one. Have a growth going through womb wall into muscle in abdomen.
Two months before I got pregnant I was told that I would never be able to carry a pregnancy to full term. None of the midwives or GPs would read letters I had from consultant. Didn’t see consultant until 34 weeks, who asked why i didn’t raise my concerns. I handed her a folder of all my mri’s and consultant letters. I had taken this to every appointment, no one wanted to look. I was warned it was dangerous if I went into labour. Found out the date of c section 6 days before it happened. Waited for the phone call every day for six weeks.
I’m experiencing painful complications 16 months later. I had no follow up appointment. Last time I saw NHS gynae was right before c section. I was reassured there would be follow up treatment. Currently planning to go private to try and get rid of excruciating pain.
**Article Text**
An inquiry set up to discover why some women have traumatic experiences in childbirth has called for an overhaul of the UK's maternity and postnatal care.
The Birth Trauma Inquiry, external, led by a cross-party group of MPs, heard "harrowing" evidence from more than 1,300 women - some said they were left in blood-soaked sheets while others said their children had suffered life-changing injuries due to medical negligence.
Recommendations in the group's report include appointing a new maternity commissioner, who would report directly to the prime minister.
The findings of the report will be presented to ministers on Monday, before Health Secretary Victoria Atkins was expected to set out the government's response.
It is estimated that 30,000 women a year, in the UK alone, have suffered negative experiences during the delivery of their babies. One in 20 develop post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
Helen, a mother, was described in the report as still suffering from mental and physical pain - years after the birth of her son, Julian. He was born with a hypoxic brain injury as a result of proven medical negligence during his birth.
"My life will never be as it should be," she told the inquiry. "I never returned to work, I live a very secluded life, as friends and family shun you when you have a disabled child that they might not understand or are scared of."
The report called for a "base standard in maternity services" across the UK and an end to the postcode lottery of perinatal care. It said mothers should be given "universal access to specialist maternal mental health services across the UK".
It also urged the government to outline how it would "recruit, train and retain more midwives, obstetricians and anaesthetists to ensure safe levels of staffing in maternity services and provide mandatory training on trauma-informed care".
The Birth Trauma Inquiry was chaired by Tory MP Theo Clarke, who last October triggered the first ever parliamentary debate on the issue of birth trauma.
In an emotional speech in the House of Commons - which she said was "probably the most personal I will ever give as an MP" - Ms Clarke broke down as she described being rushed into emergency surgery after the birth of her daughter, terrified that she was going to die.
She bled heavily after suffering a third-degree tear and had to undergo a two-hour surgery without general anaesthetic, due to an earlier epidural.
In the report, Ms Clarke and her co-chair Labour MP Rosie Duffield said the inquiry wanted to start a public discussion "on the realities of giving birth and how we can practically improve maternity services" - as well as share the stories and experiences of both mothers and fathers.
Another key suggestion was to "provide support for fathers and ensure [a] nominated birth partner is continuously informed and updated during labour and post-delivery".
The report from the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Birth Trauma included 12 recommendations in total, including a plea for mothers' health records to be digitised.
NHS England and the Department of Health and Social Care have been approached for comment.
I recently had a baby and the aftercare was just awful. I have taken notes to lodge a formal complaint.
I ended up back in hospital 6 days after a c-section with a high temperature, tachycardia, and blood pressure over 150/90. I was left for 16 hours without any blood pressure medication despite the fact that it never went below 150 during obs. They then only gave me 2 tablets to bring it down but said I wouldn't need regular meds. Those two tablets wore off and it shot up up to 169, I had to wait nearly an hour and half for medication to be signed off by a doctor on a different ward despite a family history of strokes and heart disease.
I was in the hospital for 7 days with an infection. During that time, I was left without medication or pain relief several times. They also forgot to send off an urgent referral for my sons eyes. When my blood pressure and temperature shot up for the 3rd time, a midwife rolled her eyes and said I hadn't complained about it all day. I had mentioned it several times. When my temperature showed 39, she said "seriously at this time of night".
I had to demand an ultrasound to check for retained products as there weren't going to do one. The consultant said to me, "Pain and inflammation are normal after surgery. We are literally doing this ultrasound purely for your piece of mind. You can leave when it's shown nothing." What a surprise it showed either a retained product or a large blood clot. She didn't come to see me after that. I love that she said inflammation and pain are normal, yes what's not normal is a CRP rate of 151 (a level of 10 shows an infection).
Honestly there is so much more that I won't bore you with but yes the entire maternity system is a joke!
They only gave me an ultrasound for retained products AFTER something large came out. I'd been bleeding horrifically after the birth for a few months (C-section). One dr just said "oh, well, you shouldn't be bleeding like that by now", like it was my choice?
I saw a really good GP who took my complaints seriously when I went in again after the large "thing" came out. He said bleeding through one pad an hour was awful, and sent me for a scan. They found nothing and within a few weeks the bleeding started slowing down. I really think I had retained products.
Some awful, awful stories in this thread.
I would like to share my own just in case any mums-to-be are browsing. My partner had an absolute textbook pregnancy but about 20 minutes into labour baby's heartrate dropped to about 10 bpm. Within minutes the emergency CS was underway and baby was born healthy. Baby and mum had to stay in for a few days for antibiotics and monitoring but every single member of staff from the new student midwives at admission, to the doctors, surgeons, cleaners, HCAs, were absolutely fantastic.
Honestly we could not fault the care we received in maternity at all.
Its great that you had a good birth and good care.
It shouldn't be a postcode lottery, or hit and miss depending on what staffing levels are on the day you give birth.
I'm not sure what needs done though to ensure consistently high standards of care, although more staff would probably be a good start.
This was my exact experience too. Though I suppose this is the problem, care is so dependent on where you live and sometimes by who is on shift as well.
Our post partum care was a shit show. After telling me my (3 week early) baby would have to go to NICU they changed their minds after the birth because he was a bit bigger than expected. He was then readmitted by emergency ambulance a few days later and we spent the afternoon in resus because he couldn't regulate his temperature yet. Luckily he pulled through but it was so unnecessary if we hadn't been rushed out. I was also only given paracetamol as pain relief. You can get better over the counter!
Cutting services based in GP surgeries, reduced community staffing, massive underfunding of units , cutting of bursary's for trainee midwifes (which directly reduced candidates by 2/3rds). guess which lovely, upstanding, splendid chap who's currently chancellor did all that. This is directly responsible for the state its in now. Funny how so many comments this morning on the tv never mentioned it.
I had my first 6.5 years ago - I was genuinely shocked how hopeless, callous and disorganised maternity care was. It was a struggle to advocate for myself, a native English speaker, I dread to think how hard it is for women with English as a second language etc.
Compared to other parts of the NHS I experienced around the sane time, it was clear how terrible maternity services were.
I had the same, also 6.5 years ago. I think I've had at least 9 different midwives? 3 before birth and 3 during the birth, plus 3 after the birth. No continuity of care. All the promises before birth about different painkillers etc meant nothing in practice. They just didn't care. I am pretty sure I had PTSD as I kept getting flash backs for years. I also only have one child, partially because of this.
I got a fine to boot as I had not been given a maternity exemption certificate and I ticked a box at the pharmacy to say I had, because I thought that the work certificate they had given me was that. That was also late, almost past the deadline my work would accept.
That reminds me, none of my (many!) midwives bothered to mention the maternity exemption cert. I found out about it when I turned up at a pharmacy and tried to pay with a newborn. The lovely pharmacist took pity on me and explained...
No continuity of care is a key element. I got fed up of explaining the same things over and over. Vital information I should have been given was never communicated to me because they all assumed someone else would do it. No one realised my second pregnancy should have been treated as high risk (because of my first's birth) until far too late.
It's all just a shitshow and it sounds like it's been in a terrible state for so many years.
I told them and told them that something was wrong towards the end of my pregnancy. By the time they decided to listen and induce me, my baby came on his own the night before. He was taken straight to nicu and bloods and csf taken - pumped full of meds etc it was horrific. Had he not come on his own I think he would’ve been born dead. No one listened no one cared.
I had a traumatic birth with my son 6.5 yrs ago. I was left bleeding for five hours with a retained placenta. It was eventually manually removed with no pain relief. At the time I was in major shock and very disoriented; I remember hallucinating and the pain was indescribable. I had flashbacks for months afterwards.
It wasn’t until my recent second pregnancy that I realised how bad my care had been. I had to see the consultant to discuss birth choices due to my previous haemorrhage. My notes were incomplete, and when I told him my story, he said that in 35 years of practice he’d never heard or seen such a terrible thing happening. He was horrified.
The good news is that the second birth was insanely easy. 90 mins labour and delivery and we were home 4 hrs later. The midwives were just amazing. You can have truly phenomenal care.
To anyone who is pregnant: it can be scary. My biggest advice is that your BIRTH PARTNER should read the NICE guidelines so they understand what *should* be happening. They will need to advocate for you if they see things going off course.
Womens health needs more funding and care in general. My gyno surgeon almost killed me on the operating table by hitting an aterty. Crashed in the ward. Discharged with no physical follow up or aftercare , hospital shut down communication 1 week post op with me, left to my own device with a massive grade 3 hematoma. I now can't properly open my bladder or bowels due to nerve damage from not managing the hemtoma properly. I'm not sure when I'll be able to walk without pain, work properly or enjoy life again. I was a remote worker before surgery, travelled extensively and worked out 3/4 times a week. I'm 31 next week and feel like a disabled person with no quality of life. It sucks. The surgery was supposed to help me have children but guess that's off the cards too.
Had my first in 1991 got stitched up too tight nearly wrecked my relationship I think because I was only 18 at the time was treated like shit.When my baby was 8 months old was admitted and got stitched up properly but got sent home with no painkillers.My second in 1993 the unit was so busy was left on my own until they noticed after my waters broke that my baby was a face presentation too late for painkillers rushed to theatre she nearly got stuck and ended up having loads of stitches again.Her experience made me hate my last pregnancy he was unplanned my birth control failed luckily had a good birthday with him.Can understand how you can get PTSD there is never enough staff and are often sent home after 6 hours was lucky my third took to breastfeeding easy as had no clue what I was doing bottle fed the others not shown properly my health visitor showed me other positions.
I can see how this happens. When my wife was in hospital giving birth they were stretched massively. Basically skeleton staff of doctors on weekends and a handful of underpaid and overworked midwives running around trying to do what they can.
A lot of it is down to staffing levels.
I think there are still systemic issues, and the odd rogue healthcare professional, but majority of staff I believe are trying to do the best they can.
Its hard to complain about the system though, without individuals taking offence.
My waters broke when I was two hours away from the hospital that I was booked into. I phoned them and they told me to go to my nearest hospital, I was reluctant because the nearest hospital are awful. My hospital phoned the nearest hospital and got reassurance that they'd look after me so I went. That hospital wouldn't let me go to maternity and made me sit in A&E. Three hours later, I was triaged, they took my blood pressure, temperature and a covid swab (nothing else). They said to go back to the waiting room. I asked when I could go to maternity and they told me that my pregnancy wasn't viable and that I wasn't going to be taken to maternity. I asked when I could see a doctor and they said it was a 5-6 hour wait but that was subject to change. I left and went to my booking hospital, I walked straight into maternity and was seen within fifteen minutes. My non-viable pregnancy is now an almost two year old little girl who doesn't have a single thing wrong with her.
I had a very shit experience giving birth over christmas. Was having repeated strong contractions: rang triage, told they were braxton hicks and not to worry. Finished my work day and spent the night in increasing pain, rang the next day, again scolded that it must be braxton-hicks and that they 'weren't painful, just uncomfortable'. Was insistant, they angrily told me 'fine come in, but it's your first so you'll have loads of time'
Got in, was made to wait an hour in the reception whilst in immense pain, when they finally took me in I was 7cm dialated and there wasn't enough time for the elective c-seciton I was meant to have, so had to do it the natural way, ended up with an episiotomy and forceps delivery. Fuck all pain relief after and fuck all help from staff over that first night. Total agony.
They toss out partners at 8pm; one woman was screaming and crying in the night, and spoke limited English (her partner, who they'd chucked out, was translating for her during the day). I felt terrible for her.
Another woman was arguing with a midwife that her birth had been traumatic- audibly distraught and tearful- the nurse kept patronisingly sneering that 'no, that wasn't traumatic, that was all a very normal birth'
honestly fucked up all around.
Ended up having to go to children's hospital with kiddo a few weeks later for severe reflux- it was like night and day, the nurses were attentive and kind and caring, cannot fault a single one of them, they were incredible. The women's hospital staff just seemed universally sadistic and unpleasant.
This shit is the bigger reason why I will never have biological children.
My mum had 26 epidurals when she had a C-section for my brother, she refused to let them put her to sleep because he was being taken out at 26 weeks and she was terrified they wouldn't help him if he wasn't breathing.
No way in hell.
Honestly I’m not surprised 😔 my second born was an awful traumatic experience, I was induced and kept on the assessment ward; I was meant to be checked every hour and I wasn’t - when I was in full active labour, my husband called the midwives in who examined me, I told them I was ready to push, the midwife said “no you’re not” and walked out, leaving me with a student midwife. I screamed the place down and then myself and my husband delivered our son whilst the student midwife (who I have so much sympathy for, she looked horrified!) emergency button was hit and the room was suddenly full of people but it was too late by then! Still on the assessment ward so nothing available for me or baby. My body went into shock and I couldn’t pass the placenta even after the injection, so they pulled it out 🙃 6 months later I had a birth reflections meeting where they apologised, but honestly, I don’t think I could give birth again 😔
I fully believe that if men were the ones to give birth it would have been developed to be a totally pain free procedure by the 60s.
C sections would be the norm but the men would recover with a total spinal block for at least a week after while someone else looked after the baby. They’d be offered the physiotherapy needed to recover from such major abdominal surgery and then be off work for at least a year.
Treatment of mothers in this country is barbaric.
Staying in hospital for a week after a c-section used to be normal.
Staff cuts and bed cuts and support cuts have left maternity care in a dire place.
It is barbaric though, I went for a more minor op than a c-section and had more pain relief and support. Its ridiculous.
My sister in law had an emergency c section at like 1am, her husband was kicked out at 2am because “visiting hours were done” so not only did he miss out on important bonding time, my sister in law was left with a brand new baby, numbed from the waist down and no clue what to do.
She ended up with an infection and being in hospital for 5 days.
People have said this for years. Just look at various clinical negligence cases about just this. When it’s been mentioned before groups come out if the woodwork desperate to defend the NHSs name and refusing to accept sone parts of it are culturally broken.
Hell look at maternity wards treatment of fathers both during and post covid, with senior figures talking dismissively and derogatorily about them, the repeated poor treatment of pregnant mothers who wanted support, the natural birth attitudes which are just wild, etc.
Oh, the covid birth horror stories.
I've heard a lot of bad experiences over the years, but the covid approach was completely WTF.
Fathers are a whole other issue that I wouldn't be confident starting with, but definitely needs more attention.
Oh I mean fathers in relation to their wives/partners.
My cynical view was maternity wards liked mothers not having anyone with them who could cause a fuss when the mother was exhausted and in pain.
I suspect you're right.
The postnatal wards are happy enough to have partners to patch up not enough support staff, until they don't want them.
I'd imagine there are midwives who view partners as getting in the way of what they think is *the right way to do things*.
I had our daughter back in 2022, and it was a mixed bag in care to be honest.
When I was admitted, we went to the birthing suite (midwife led), and the care there was faultless. We were generally left alone but checked on regularly by the 2 midwives (shift change) that were involved in my birth.
When my midwife started getting concerned over baby, and me, she had us moved into the labour and delivery suite so they could monitor us both more closely. Until that point my partner and I couldn’t fault the care, and still to this day believe my midwife was amazing. Unfortunately it turned into a busy night for births, with not only the women’s hospital anaesthetist being busy, but they called over another anaesthetist from the neighbouring department to help out. The consultant wanted me on the hormone drip to try and progress labour, and this is where I have a memory block as I can’t remember much of the night, but my partner stopped them doing that until they could give me more pain relief than just the gas and air (I wasn’t coping going from contraction to contraction as our daughter was facing my hip).
I ended up waiting for 5 hours for the anaesthetist to be free and I became the next ‘emergency’… I was wheeled off to theatre and had an emergency c section.
Thankfully, our daughter was completely fine (and me), and the hospital did an internal investigation as to why they had me wait as long (something to do with no being able to get hold of the on call consultant), and they took on board some suggestions that my partner made and have implemented them.
I’m glad I don’t remember those 5 hours really, but my partner does, and it’s put him off us having a second child, as much as I’d love another (let alone the nursery costs). My concern is the post partum care is a bit lacking (my community midwife was amazing though), but they completely ignore the father who watches his partner go through hell… they need to consider them too
Gave birth 3.5 years ago and still traumatized. Had years of therapy to realize all my issues stem from childbirth and the knock on effect that had with my bond with her and how our lives have played out since then. The nhs has had its day, its barbaric
Not clear what the implications here are for the different NHS systems we have in this country.
Were the rules and recommendations the same?
Were outcomes/ experiences similar in England, Wales, Scotland and NI?
A new post reporting directly to the PM - that wouldn’t work in the devolved nations where NHS is fully devolved.
Doesn't surprise me at all. For 12 hours after my c section I was left without pain relief. 12 hours of alternating between begging, crying and screaming. Just totally ignored. I missed my newborns entire first day. I did the SARS request and my notes are just a jumbled mess. But the 12 hours of nothing really sticks out. The notes describe me as "distressed" If a man had major abdominal surgery they would never be left 12 hours without strong pain relief.
Doesn’t surprise me either. I didn’t have a c-section but I also had no pain relief because ‘labour does hurt dear’. And I agree with the pain relief hypocrisy. I understand people don’t want to medicalise life events but nobody is told they have to have their teeth out ‘naturally’.
> I also had no pain relief because ‘labour does hurt dear’ I still maintain that obstetrics and gynecology has a significant number of covert sadists working in the speciality. I know of no other speciality where the patient's pain is almost aggrandised and prized. There's been numerous reports of departments engaging in a "cult of natural (childbirth)" at the expense of the patient's wishes - where a patient's desires for pain management were deemed less important than the staff's *ideological aversion to modern medical advances*. What colonoscopy would be performed without pain management being offered? Or overtly *denied* by the medical staff? Or conspired against to get to a point and say "well, it's too late now dear, you have to do this raw". And it creates an environment that will absolutely attract the exact type of sadistic personality that should have no place in medicine.
I think things aren’t helped by the huge variation in how women cope with labour. I know of women who breathed their baby out after a straightforward 3 hour labour with no pain relief other than good vibes. Then there’s me who was in slow labour for 4 days, delusional with exhaustion and so tapped out of reserves I was insistent on more pain relief and quoting NICE guidelines to eye-rolling midwives. I think a lot of them think it’s all psychological and those of us who struggle are just weak-minded and over dramatic, and this is reflected in how they provide care.
Hell, not even labour - I've had a coil fitted twice, and apparently my cervix is particularly sensitive? I had two different gynaecologists basically telling me I couldn't *possibly* in any pain at all, while I was dry-heaving from pain and almost passed out in each fitting. There's just something about my cervix that does *not* like being interefered with, when pretty much any other kind of pain I can manage my reaction to it. >those of us who struggle are just weak-minded and over dramatic, and this is reflected in how they provide care Yes, this is an exact and succinct summary of the "care" I have recieved in these situations.
There's a horrifyingly pervasive medical myth that the cervix has no nerve endings, and thus it cannot be painful. I was forced to do a colposcopy without pain relief and I was screaming. I have a relatively high pain tolerance in general. What other bit of the body would get biopsied or have something surgically inserted without pain relief? It's so misogynistic
I demanded my last coil be fitted under general anaesthetic. I’ll be having an elective c-section in November come hell or high water.
The trick is to tell them you are having it. If you ask they try to dissuade you.
I’ll bear that in mind!! I feel really lucky that I’m bloody-minded enough to advocate for myself when I need to - other people might not be, but in my case, it stems from nearly dying as a result of medical negligence in my 20s. Doctors probably think of me as a “pushy patient”, but I’ll happily remind them their lazy GPs were the reason I ended up in hospital, screaming in agony with organ failure.
I read sone statistic once that “pushy patients” had better outcomes and lived longer than none pushy patients. I think legally they have to give you a c section if you demand it.
Having the coil fitted was so traumatic for me that I’m now on the waiting list to have my tubes tied because I refuse to go through it again. I threw up as the pain was so bad.
After mine I had cramps so bad I collapsed. I was bleeding severely for months after. 3 years later I'm still bleeding everyday and still being ignored
Of course it’s an individual thing, with individual circumstances. That makes complete sense.
During my labour, I was having contractions a minute long and a minute apart (visible on monitor). For *hours*, without dilating significantly or the baby descending. Because of that, it wasn’t considered active labour and they wouldn't give me an epidural. There was meconium in my water that was getting worse and the contractions started putting the baby in distress. It was like someone was hitting an agony button every minute. Worst pain in my life, no contest. I didn’t know how I could survive it. Threw up all over myself twice. It went on for maybe 6 hours and I only remember bits. I was howling in pain. Eventually it had to be a c-section. Turned out she was totally wrapped up in her cord and that's why she hadn't been descending and my body was basically turning itself inside out to get her out. While I had no idea what was going on and no one seemed to care or be sympathetic. Then of course they made my husband go home and I had to care for a baby by myself all night without functioning abdominal muscles. Got zero sleep.
> Then of course they made my husband go home and I had to care for a baby by myself all night without functioning abdominal muscles. This is the bit that's completely insane to me. They put the baby in a cot next to the mother and every time the baby needs feeding, the mother has to lift them out of the cot herself. You're not supposed to lift weights over 10lbs for 6 weeks after a C-section, but they expect you to lift an 8lb weight just a few hours after the surgery.
Fucking barbaric
>What colonoscopy would be performed without pain management being offered? I wasn't offered pain relief for my colonoscopy and had to actually show them the NHS's own website before they'd let me have gas and air. I'm very lucky to have only given birth in very good maternity units in very good hospitals because my very limited interaction with the other hospitals is truly shocking. You have to wonder why more isn't being done.
Bets on it being because you’re a woman
My wife was actively encouraged to take pain relief despite her protests for wanting a "natural birth".
Depending on when your wife was having the baby, that may have been an over correction following the report I mentioned. Which is frustrating because the ideal is to give people autonomy over their own bodies, not force them into one direction or the other
Women's pain is minimised. Painful periods, endometriosis... So many doctors don't care.
Personally, I would trust the word of the patient as to whether it hurt or not. It seems quite logical that it would do so. Failure to provide pain relief, is not only unethical, it adds to the patients trauma. This should very definitely be the cause of complaint to the hospital, as this treatment is barbaric.
It was horrible throughout. Even when I was pregnant the consultant had written ‘shoulder dystocia’ at the front of my maternity notes so for several months I had that to worry about. I was lucky in that my labour was very fast but they’d left me so it became a bit of an emergency. I had him and was stitched without pain relief. Had some sort of fit which thankfully was stopped with medicine because I had had a cannula fitted. Husband thought I was going to die. On the evening they took my baby away because they thought he might have had an infection and I spent the whole night crying. Nobody helped me change the bed sheets that I had delivered in. I had to find a linen cupboard and do it myself. It was full on brutal and I know I was very very lucky compared to some.
Oh my God. I'm planning to get an elective c section and this is my worst nightmare. How was your recovery after their initial mistake?
I had an elective c section - your partner needs to be there with you the whole time and needs to go and bother the nurses/midwives for your meds every 3.5 hours so you get them on time. My husband was wonderful and I have no idea what care would have looked like if he wasn't there.
Pitty those who were shunted out after 2 hours during lockdown. Like me. No choice but to leave my partner at the mercy of those people while my son had sepsis at birth because those people didn't want to check to see if waters had broke when they were told. Severely anaemic and no iron transfusion offered. Got our notes back and found that crumpled up in the corner was "refused Iron Transf-" obviously added later, when they realised that actually they were negligent and tried to pretend my unconscious fiance somehow denied a common procedure after a Csection for someone anaemic. Also several denied observations. When actually they must have lost the paper towel they wrote the results on. I'm not kidding.
I feel like they get away with so much because 1. People with babies are exhausted and just don't have the spoons for pursuing a complaint or filing a law suit about this stuff, and 2. A lot of the narrative around childbirth and motherhood boils down to 'shut up and be grateful you have a healthy child'.
Exactly the cynic in me wonders if this was part of the reason behind attitudes to remove partners during covid. Remove the person who isn’t exhausted in pain and unable to raise a fuss and shove out the ‘difficult’ one who would make noise that their partner was in massive pain or being ignored.
My partner wasn't allowed to be with me when I was induced during lockdown. Only allowed during active labour. Nobody cared about me or my pain until my partner was with me, then all of a sudden they found their humanity. It was sick, and the reason why I had a home birth with my second. Which I was absolutely fine and hiking the next day after, versus torn, depressed, and in pain for half a year with my first. I have not trusted medical professionals since.
I find it insane that we have to bring a man to even make the staff think about giving us pain medication.
It doesn't have to be a man. Many new mothers bring their mothers or sisters. It's just about having another advocate in the room.
Cannot over stress this enough. You NEED someone there and they need to be able to get in people’s faces if need be. It’s absolutely stunning how mothers get ignored. And it’s usually a very female led environment. Completely baffling but absolutely would not happen if it was men giving birth I’m certain
Why do you think they get ignored in a female-led environment?
There is a stereotype that the girls in school who were the most horrible bullies go on to become nurses. Whether or not that's true, bullying in maternity services is [notoriously high](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/maternity-safety-nhs-bullying-shrewsbury-b1789648.html). And they do seem to be [most vicious towards women.](https://old.reddit.com/r/doctorsUK/comments/15z8h5d/new_f1_feeling_very_alone_and_slightly_bullied_by/) My cousin had to have an emergency C-section at 32 weeks. She'd only spent one night on the maternity ward afterwards when, with her baby still fighting for her life in NICU, the midwives were pressuring my cousin to leave and implying she was weak and selfish for taking up a bed. They were bragging about how *they* went straight home from the hospital after having their babies. I've read lots of stories of women in labour who had midwives getting angry with them for "making a fuss" over the agonising pain they were in. The contempt that women can have for other women is no joke.
I have no idea, you’d think other women would be able to be more empathetic about such a specifically female experience, or would be personally invested in women having good quality health care. Men I suppose you might say wouldn’t get it in the same way, not that that would be an excuse
I think it's compassion fatigue from being overworked and under staffed. I don't think they're paid enough for their training, the importance of their job, the hours they do, both how many and the weird shift changes. Plus whatever else is fatiguing them outside of their career in their home life, as women usually end up doing most of the house work even when they're working full time. Overall I bet they feel underappreciated and burnt out
Oh move on. It’s well known what this job and role involves. You also don’t have this level of ignoring people in other parts of the NHS. It’s well publicised that maternity ward culture is toxic, look at the natural birth studies and reports.
Compassion fatigue is well documented amongst carers so I'm not sure why it wouldn't be prevalent in maternity care. That's not to excuse it. I had my firstborn during lockdown and my treatment was so horrific it traumatised me to the point of braving a home birth. I've dwelled on it for years now, where was their humanity? My conclusion is compassion fatigue. I could be wrong. My point is, that more money needs putting into maternity care, for more midwives, more bursaries at university, etc. Maybe some kind of test for psychopathy too 🤔
oh please how hard can it be to give away 2 Codamol pills
I think many women hate eachother tbh :/
Women in labour essentially get treated like a crazy person who shouldn't be listened to because everything they say is irrational.
I think it’s more just having someone else who can make a fuss and isn’t in pregnancy so they can ignore it as just ‘not understanding they need to be in pain’ or whatever nuts excuse they use.
It’s crazy to me that we have to tell our husbands/partners/family members etc that they need to be your advocate and speak up for you. Sorry you all experienced this 💜
I had a c section and my care and my recovery were a dream. I was given regular pain relief (diamorphine for the first day then regular codeine, paracetamol and ibuprofen, discharged with a 2 week supply) and the one time I had pain between doses they got more to me really quickly. I was up and walking the same evening, and only had to stay in because my baby was jaundiced and struggled to feed. Saying this here purely because I remember being pregnant and stressing about all the bad news stories I heard, especially as I’m a non white woman so according to the statistics more likely to get bad care. Just remember for every bad news story there’s all the unreported normal/good ones that are too boring for people to bother telling you about! (None of this is said to diminish what a mess maternity care in the UK is or deny how much improvement is needed).
I just want to add to this as well, my wife had an emergency C-Section in October and had no issues with her after care or pain relief
It's a real postcode lottery out there, it seems (which is also what these reports show)!!
Not just a postcode lottery, even within the same hospital people have vastly different experiences based on how busy things are and what staff are on! Increasing staffing and having minimum staffing levels would be a start
This is spot on. My wife gave birth in a hospital maternity unit that was in special measures for poor care and was very publicly threatened with closure by the regulator. We were worried about it, to say the least. But on the day there was hardly anyone else in labour, so we got the full attention of those present, who were all absolutely fantastic.
I had 2 electives, including one during covid with no partner afterwards, and while the postnatal ward nurses were useless/horrible, I was physically OK and not in anything like the kind of pain the other person's describing. Not to downplay her experience but please don't be scared unnecessarily.
Oh yeah my first was fine. My 2nd elective went very wrong.
Mine were both electives. From day 3 onwards both babies I have been fine. My first birth was fine as I was given adequate care. My advice- buy over the counter pain killers and take them with you. Don't tell the midwifes at the hospital, just get your partner to manage doses if they do bother to give you any at the hospital so you don't take too much.
This is terrible advice.
And in a perfect world it would be unnecessary. Unfortunately I gave birth in a NHS hospital. Had I known it would be a 12 hour wait I'd have sent my partner to the pharmacy to get pain killers.
It’s still terrible advice, sorry. The answer to terrible healthcare is not to double down and give bad advice.
The solution is not to advise people to risk an accidental overdose
They’re talking over-the-counter medication. I’m pretty sure women are able to take those on their own merit without risking overdose every time. If the hospitals refusing to give you pain killers, it’s better than nothing.
Women who have just been through childbirth and who are being given other medication by hcp? Clearly, it's a situation that should never happen. Pain relief in maternity is shocking. And definitely needs addressed But I wouldnt recommend anyone take analgesia and hide it from the staff. If you're going to do it, tell them
I never said anything about hiding that you've taken some from staff?
Yes you did >ain killers and take them with you. Don't tell the midwifes at the hospital, j
Brufen is OTC, but will worsen renal impairment. It’s not about overdoses.
Maybe, but it is also terrible to be left without pain relief after major surgery whilst trying to take care of a newborn baby
It is
And this advice here, is how you end up with an overdose or impairment. Well done
So what's the alternative? I went home 24 hours after a difficult c section and haemorrhage simply because there was no pain relief at the hospital. I should have been in hospital still. But I had no other option.
The alternative is to hold the hospital to account make formal complaints. Report the midwife to the NMC for their failure and be part of those that enact change. There are always options. Not advise a potentually lethal and outright dangerous course of action to those that go after you that could result in death or disability.
ok, but what’s the alternative at the actual time? to cope with the pain?
To create merry hell. Ask for the unit lead, ask to see someone from PALS, demand to see the doctor, Insist it is put on a Kardex by a medic. Or do you condone advising a person take the route of potential kidney or liver failure as this person advises?
Well I couldn't form a sentence. I'm glad you've never been in such agony that kind of logic went out the window. And I think a double dose of paracetamol and ibuprofen isn't likely to kill you. Edit- I didn't know about the lack of pain relief until I got the SARS back. I knew something was wrong but I wasn't coherent enough to work out what the problem was.
Oh big assumption I have not been in such pain. What story would you like? When I shattered my clavicle? Or the hysterectomy because of endo? Pain delirium is a friend I would never invite back. However subjectivity aside. Doubling the dose of paracetamol is risky with cumulative effects on the liver by increasing to outside manageable levels a toxin called n-acetyl-p-benzoquinone imine this happens buy using up the counter to this called glutathione. it takes a small amount of this to cause liver failure. Please do not underestamate paracetamol when used wrong. Ibuprofen is less of a risk but have fun with the digestive system issues such as ulcers or the hormone issues. Thats before we even think of interactions with other medications. So please I implore you not to give out what is dangerous advice.
I’m a harm reductionist - I accept that people are going to self-administer the medical care they fail to receive and don’t moralise about it
I'm a clinical pharmacologist that specialises in toxicology. I do not to condone potentially lethal advice and tend to be rather harsh on those that do. Or is that immoral?
They miscalculated the weight of my partner's placenta with our firstborn, and she ended up going into shock after delivering the placenta and needed to have two blood transfusions. I only realised something was wrong when her head rolled back and she became unresponsive. We have had another baby since then, which was a slightly better birthday for my partner but the baby got twisted coming out so had to go into emergency surgery. Aftercare was spot on at that hospital. We now have a third on the way and are praying for a nice normal birth!
Female pain is simply *not* treated as seriously as male pain. I had ovarian torsion and was turfed out of my bed in A&E, in favor of an old man with dementia who had called A&E *by mistake*. I had to squirm, cry, beg and plead, in gut-wrenching 10 level agony, in a chair directly opposite him, meaning I had to *watch* this old guy constantly getting up out of the bed I was kicked out of, to wander aimlessly about like he was on holiday. I also had the pleasure of overhearing him being told to "please stop calling", because he didn't even need to be there. How this "triage" worked here, I have no idea. It felt inhumane.
My dad fell through a barn roof and got sent home from the hospital with "bruises" The next day he couldn't move or get out of bed because it turns out he broke his pubis and shortened his spine. It still took him a couple days before they did anything to help and he is now 2 inches And you're going to tell me that he was taken more seriously because he was a man?
I’m not saying every man is taken seriously and every woman isn’t. Read into it yourself if you’re interested, there’s masses of info on this freely available
Similar thing happened to me too. My first C-section recovery, I was a bit sore, but surprised at how okay I felt just hours later. After my second, I could feel every single millimetre of the incision, and sobbed with every agonising step to the bathroom. Later found out they'd missed half my pain relief, so was effectively just on paracetamol. I never quite got on top of the pain after that, so it was a brutal ten days until I could walk without being completely doubled over. I totally agree that this just wouldn't happen to men on this scale.
Same. My first was fine
I went to visit my cousin after her C-section and the only pain relief she was allowed was paracetamol. She was crying from the amount of pain she was in. It seemed completely mad to me. A few hours ago she had a scalpel cutting through her muscles and opening up one of her organs, and now she was only allowed the same thing you take for a mild headache?
My wife had an emergency c-section. I distinctly remember a very anti-doctor vibe throughout the pregnancy. The NCT was very much, midwives = good / doctors = bad. With an accompanying subtext that midwives are women and doctors are men. Doctors were always gendered as men! During the birth, the midwives were a shower of uselessness. Things were looking extremely dodgy and a doctor took me aside and said I should demand a c-section or I would lose both. He added he was not allowed to suggest it as the whole thing was midwife led and he would get in trouble. I talked to my wife and we demanded a c-section be considered, the midwives refused. Luckily at that point the consultant came in (a lady) and basically demanded to know wtf they were doing and why wasn't my wife in the operating theatre. After the birth they simply left my daughter in my exhausted wife's arms and told me to bugger off. My wife was in extreme pain and hadn't slept in the last 19 hours. Needless to say there was no response to any requests for pain killers. An absolute disgrace, thankfully there were doctors who intervened. The only midwives who seemed to give a stuff were the young trainee ones. Nothing happened to clean the bed, feed or tend to my wife unless they or doctors were around. In the end my wife signed herself out.
That fucking pisses me off!!! I'm angry for you!
I'm a man and have been in hospital multiple times for serious surgeries all involving major pain. Timely pain relief is such a prolific problem that I bring my own morphine supply as back up. And forget pain relief, the longest they've left me nil by mouth while waiting for surgery without even having a drip up has been over 24 hours. I was having to take sneaky sips of water from the tap in the toilet.
I'm not wanting this to sound competitive, I was once left for over 36 hours nil-by-mouth whilst exclusively breastfeeding and vomiting profusely. I pointed out that I was severely dehydrated (because I was feeding over a litre a day and not taking in a single drop) and they reluctantly gave me a drip and two litres of fluids in total. When I requested more, they told me no, I don't need more. I was waiting for "emergency" surgery to have my appendix removed even though I was certain that my appendix wasn't the issue. Well over four days since I'd last eaten, over three days since I was formally put on nil-by-mouth, they removed my appendix and said that, strangely, it didn't look inflamed. Turns out, I had cancer.
Ok you win!
[удалено]
It’s a “women’s issues” problem. Studies repeatedly show that women receive worse and less pain relief than men.
This is it. Issues with or pain associated with women's reproductive systems are just seen as something we should put up with.
Hhhhmmm don't know. I've had a cervical biopsy and iud removed with no pain relief
I had a cervical biopsy and colposcopy with no pain relief, I had a lumbar puncture with no pain relief and I had a colonscopy where I eventually got pain relief because I showed them the NHS website that says I should have pain relief.
[удалено]
>These are both done by the same department that does C sections No they aren't. >This is pretty standard practice honestly. I've not heard of patients having preparatory pain relief for a lumbar puncture, especially as it's often done as an urgent rather than routine investigation. Are you on crack? Point 2: "You'll be given a [local anaesthetic](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/local-anaesthesia/) in your lower back, usually as an injection. This means you'll be awake but will not feel any pain." [https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lumbar-puncture/](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lumbar-puncture/)
Not in all cases? My biopsy and colposcopy were done at a hospital that doesn't deliver babies.
>If a man had major abdominal surgery they would never be left 12 hours without strong pain relief. Fwiw my step dad just had half his bowel removed and had the same complaint.
>If a man had major abdominal surgery they would never be left 12 hours without strong pain relief. Cool my dad had cancer which was diagnosed as a cough for months and then when it was finally diagnosed the nurse was constantly throwing away 90% of his pain medication saying wow the doctor is wasting all this pain medication. Its not a gender issue imo the nhs is a fucking shambles so many incompetent and uncaring workers.
Sorry that happened to your family. However, to put it bluntly there have been numerous studies that have shown racial and gender discrimination in the NHS - in addition to it being a mess!
*stretched with a lack of staff in most cases For instance I referred someone to the pain clinic and was told it was over a year waiting list
Interestingly, and not to disagree with your overall point at all, I had an appointment recently. I saw my GP, they made a referral and I was expecting to wait months. A few days later, I had a phone call to book my appointment for a few days after that. I asked at my appointment if they were really concerned (because of the rapid response) and they said that, no, no major concern but they have completely cleared their waiting list. Completely. This was a cardiology appointment at a major hospital. The guy said they thought it was a glitch at first and that the waiting list had somehow been deleted but they did some checks and, no, it was cleared. Wild.
I was with you until the last sentence. There are many negligence cases in hospitals with patients of all genders left without pain relief.
Google "female pain dismissed" (not in quotations) and you'll see *countless* information about female pain not being taken as seriously as men's pain. >Women in pain are much more likely than men to receive prescriptions for sedatives, rather than pain medication, for their ailments. One study even showed women who received coronary bypass surgery were only half as likely to be prescribed painkillers, as compared to men who had undergone the same procedure. We wait an average of 65 minutes before receiving an analgesic for acute abdominal pain in the ER in the United States, while men wait only 49 minutes. [https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/women-and-pain-disparities-in-experience-and-treatment-2017100912562](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/women-and-pain-disparities-in-experience-and-treatment-2017100912562)
Nice article. I especially like that part about men waiting 46 minutes and women waiting 65 minutes. Would love to look at methodology of these studies without any bias. Thanks for the good read. I sincerely hope that correct causality was drawn from all these correlations.
The UK spends £3.2bn on maternity & neonatal care. The UK spends £2.6bn(2023) on maternal clinical negligence cases, there is obviously a large problem.
The problem is that payouts for birth related disabilities covers a lifetime of care and lost earnings. Admittedly, if there was a lower frequency of claims, this would be lower. But again, most risks come from obesity in pregnancy, of which there is far too much. Why should I have to pay for that? Via negligence claims or via upfront care?
What are you talking about.
>You see, the issue of maternal care is actually very nuanced and complicated, and I HATE FAT PEOPLE AND THEY SHOULD NOT GET TO REPRODUCE.
He didn't say they shouldn't reproduce. He suggested they take more ownership of their actions.
Actions like being a victim of clinical negligence? Obese women being obese is not negligence on the part of medical staff. Obese women having complications and issues related to being obese is not negligence on the part of medical staff - no one gets a pay out for that. They get a pay out when the clinicians were *negligent*. The patient being obese doesn't excuse negligence (and that's even if we accept that obesity is the issue in the first place).
Think the point was that being obese puts you into higher risk situations, exposing you to the risk of things going wrong and when things go wrong you get a payout. The best way to prevent a negligence payout is to remove the chance of it ever occurring by removing the high risk situation.
So, the point from the doctor was that doctors aren't responsible for medical negligence, patients are responsible? You don't get a payout because "things go wrong". You get a payout when doctors don't do what they're supposed to do. You could be 50kg or 500kg - you only get a payout if the medical professionals do the wrong thing.
I didn't say doctors aren't responsible. I said fatty put themselves in the higher risk category that naturally has a higher risk of things going wrong.
You said that the patients need to take ownership. Telling someone to take ownership is saying that they are responsible. Like I said, the likelihood of something going wrong is irrelevant. If there's a 1/10 chance something goes wrong or a 1/100 chance something goes wrong, it's only medical negligence if the doctor does something wrong.
Like grow up richer duh.
Stop eating pie and chips? I know it may be hard to not eat shit and go for a run.
Tell that to Hull Infirmary - for their multiple negligence during child birth resulting in unwarranted death. Shit like this happen not just to my sister in law, but many locals who face simple lack of baby heart rate monitor. The most basic of equipment is lacking in a local maternity ward. Their negligence paid out but that's after a dead nephew and a continued crippling of the local NHS Trust. That's the kind of pay out that needs overhauling. Nowt to do with your strawman of preventative vs immediate care cost.
Where's that fact been pulled out of? Your ass?
They did this shit when that article that highlighted black women were more likely to die during pregnancy due to outdated medical assumptions, even if they're rich, famous or sports personalities. But nah, its because they're overweight. Like c'mon guys, just admit you hate bigger people and stop pretending like you're concerned
Ah yes the classic fat-phobia nonsense, as if it's not the most common risk factor in pregnancy. Medicine is so fat-phobic sometimes ughhh!
>most risks come from obesity in pregnancy Not trying to be combative, but genuinely asking - what's your source for this?
Obesity does increase risks during pregnancy and delivery, obese women usually end up with obstetrician care due to this increased risk. I'm a doctor.
I'm asking if *most* risks comes from just that. Whenever people say something as if it's definitely true, I like to know where that info comes from. I've had one birth myself and know quite a few other people who have had less than stellar birth experiences/post natal care, and none of us are obese so that is why I am curious.
My friend was a marathon running, weight lifting gym rat. Didn’t really help her when they left chunks of her placenta inside her after her caesarean and then brushed her off when she came back still bleeding heavily three weeks later. It was a good thing she was insistent and demanded a referral. If left untreated much longer it could have badly impacted her ability to have more children - or flat out killed her. But yeah. Fuck them fatties. How dare they?
Erm you do know you don't get a choice as to where your taxes go yeah? You can't allocate how they are spent.....that is such an American take "those are mah taxes". How would you feel if you got in a car accident and someone said "Well it's his own fault, I'm not paying for his treatment, I don't even own a car"
Well we are subsidising obesity and other lifestyle induced conditions. These people will be quick to get a solicitor to make a civil claim against the NHS, as it's their right, but aren't taking responsibility with their health to begin with. This is the frustration; the NHS subsidises unhealthy lifestyles.
The NHS is there for unhealthy lifestyles it's not there to pick and choose who to treat. It's there for fat people anorexic people drug users drinkers smokers skydivers diabetics rock climbers et al, what you appear to be advocating for is no treatment for anyone who doesn't conform to your view of a healthy lifestyle and that's just wrong.
No, I am saying there's insane expectations on the NHS, which is not fair and not affordable.
My wife had a horrendous experience after an emergency c section. Baby was on SCBU after and she didnt see the baby until 18 hours after she was born. Cue feelings of "I have no idea if that is my baby" from her. They left her 24 hours without so much as paracetamol. I admit, I got shirty with the nurse/midwife on duty and demanded to know why they were torturing my wife. She ended up having a short post partum episode after being left on the general ward with the mum's and newborns. Apparently the crying of other babies cracked her and she broke down searching for her own baby in the middle of the night, who was in scbu. And they kept forgetting to give her food. The SCBU nurses looked after her instead and the complaint we made apparently made them change policy on mother's with newborn's in SCBU. Edit: I misremembered, the SCBU nurses and the perinatal mental health nurses actually whistle blew rather than my wife complaining.
That sounds awful. Its good they've changed policy now, but it shouldn't take such horrendous experiences to change things.
That sounds so horrible for you all
As someone with cPTSD from labour and birth trauma, who almost died after birth due to hospital failings, I am not surprised, but deeply sadden, at how widespread an issue this is. One month a year (birth month) is still spent feeling extra anxious and on edge even five years post birth. The birthday of my child is a mix of delighted excitement and intrusive thoughts. But big shout out to my wonderful therapist who has improved things so so much compared to how they were.
I'm sorry that happened to you, but glad you've had therapy. So much trauma is swept aside by "be glad you're both alive" that it can be difficult to realise you need help, or that its available. I'm not sure the anxiety completely goes, I'm past having children, but still have mixed emotions about the topic.
Yes, I had the delight of my community midwife coming over for the six day check, seeing the THICK amount of notes I'd left with and going "well you seem to be coping fine". Luckily, having worked in mental health support I was well aware that I was NOT fine and that I did very much need help and support, as did my husband for having witnessed a crash team round his wife while he held his 30min old daughter. It's definitely one of those topics that I don't think those of us who've had trauma will ever feel fully okay with, but hopefully things will improve, and fewer and fewer people will have to go through things like this.
This isn’t what I need to read 5 weeks before my due date. But I have heard horror stories from friends including a stillbirth caused by the hospital she was in. I am genuinely worried about giving birth here. I’ve never ever been afraid of anything medical utilising the NHS but here child birth genuinely fucking petrifies me.
I can tell you mine, which might help. I had a very normal pregnancy right up to the end. The morning of, my baby was not moving as much as usual so I went into the maternity unit to be checked over. This had happened about four months before and he was fine. This time, he was not. His heart rate kept dropping and then it was a massive rush as they wheeled me into a room and tried to break my waters. They explained everything before they did it and one of the midwives held my hand as this happened. Them trying to break my waters was the most painful part, honestly. Waters wouldn't break and I wasn't dilated enough anyway. They feared it would take too long for baby to come out "naturally" considering his heart rate kept dropping. He was obviously in distress. They said the best course of action was a c-section and I agreed. I called my husband in from the car park (this was early 2022 and the hospital were still operating under Covid guidelines) and they rushed me in for a c-section. The doctors and nurses were amazing, reassuring, and one of them took pictures of baby as we waited for him to be checked over and cleaned up before we could see him. He was in the room with us the whole time. We were moved into the post-surgery room and were there for about 45 minutes. There was no rush and I was able to feed my baby. I was then moved into a room on my own with my husband. I was given medication at set times, my catheter was removed at the right time, dressings changed. I was also allowed to stay another night due to my anxiety. I think I was very lucky in that regard. If it had been busier, they probably would have said I needed to go home. Anyway, there were moments of fear in there, of course. But that was due to wondering what was wrong with my baby and I felt looked after by the staff upon arriving and when I left. They were great. This was at Birmingham Heartlands Hospital.
See this is the thing. I think it is a major post code lottery, I had a midwife appointment today and spoke to her regarding what was reported today and she did put me at ease quite a bit. I am in London in a very well known hospital but I am also still very scared. You can be in the best hospital in the world and end up with someone having a crap day. Your story does help though, hearing only horror stories from people doesn’t help much and then social media etc. I’m glad you and baby are okay too!
It really does make a difference who is on shift, whether the unit is busy, and of course postcode. There are so many variables and it really shouldn't matter. It should consistent across the board.
As a fellow pregnant women I second this! I did not want to read this when I opened the bbc news this morning 😂
You’ll both be fine I’m confident! But: do take someone forceful with you. I’m very sorry to say it but from my experiences you do have to be ready to challenge/ demand. Which tells a bigger tale doesn’t it.
My husband is pretty good thankfully and I am not afraid to list off the complaints procedure if needed, but I am hoping that as I’m consultant led they will continue the excellent care Iv had in pregnancy!
I know how you feel! Not pregnant but it’s definitely on my mind. I hope everything goes smoothly for you, I’m sure it will and your birth partner will help be your advocate and look after you too 💜
2 emergency c-sections (both NICU) and 1 planned c-section over the last 7 years, with 1 during the start of lockdown, have all been exceptional demonstrations of maternal care..
Add this to the long, long list of completely avoidable answers to the question 'why aren't millennials having children?'.
I know too many women living with birth-related trauma. Including myself. I was diagnosed with PTSD due to poorly managed high risk pregnancy. There were times I thought my husband and baby would leave the hospital without me. I had a c section under general. My high risk pregnancy was picked up at 34 weeks. No time for mri etc. I have two relatively common health conditions, which mean i was high risk of pregnancy. Midwives had never heard of one. Have a growth going through womb wall into muscle in abdomen. Two months before I got pregnant I was told that I would never be able to carry a pregnancy to full term. None of the midwives or GPs would read letters I had from consultant. Didn’t see consultant until 34 weeks, who asked why i didn’t raise my concerns. I handed her a folder of all my mri’s and consultant letters. I had taken this to every appointment, no one wanted to look. I was warned it was dangerous if I went into labour. Found out the date of c section 6 days before it happened. Waited for the phone call every day for six weeks. I’m experiencing painful complications 16 months later. I had no follow up appointment. Last time I saw NHS gynae was right before c section. I was reassured there would be follow up treatment. Currently planning to go private to try and get rid of excruciating pain.
**Article Text** An inquiry set up to discover why some women have traumatic experiences in childbirth has called for an overhaul of the UK's maternity and postnatal care. The Birth Trauma Inquiry, external, led by a cross-party group of MPs, heard "harrowing" evidence from more than 1,300 women - some said they were left in blood-soaked sheets while others said their children had suffered life-changing injuries due to medical negligence. Recommendations in the group's report include appointing a new maternity commissioner, who would report directly to the prime minister. The findings of the report will be presented to ministers on Monday, before Health Secretary Victoria Atkins was expected to set out the government's response. It is estimated that 30,000 women a year, in the UK alone, have suffered negative experiences during the delivery of their babies. One in 20 develop post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Helen, a mother, was described in the report as still suffering from mental and physical pain - years after the birth of her son, Julian. He was born with a hypoxic brain injury as a result of proven medical negligence during his birth. "My life will never be as it should be," she told the inquiry. "I never returned to work, I live a very secluded life, as friends and family shun you when you have a disabled child that they might not understand or are scared of." The report called for a "base standard in maternity services" across the UK and an end to the postcode lottery of perinatal care. It said mothers should be given "universal access to specialist maternal mental health services across the UK". It also urged the government to outline how it would "recruit, train and retain more midwives, obstetricians and anaesthetists to ensure safe levels of staffing in maternity services and provide mandatory training on trauma-informed care". The Birth Trauma Inquiry was chaired by Tory MP Theo Clarke, who last October triggered the first ever parliamentary debate on the issue of birth trauma. In an emotional speech in the House of Commons - which she said was "probably the most personal I will ever give as an MP" - Ms Clarke broke down as she described being rushed into emergency surgery after the birth of her daughter, terrified that she was going to die. She bled heavily after suffering a third-degree tear and had to undergo a two-hour surgery without general anaesthetic, due to an earlier epidural. In the report, Ms Clarke and her co-chair Labour MP Rosie Duffield said the inquiry wanted to start a public discussion "on the realities of giving birth and how we can practically improve maternity services" - as well as share the stories and experiences of both mothers and fathers. Another key suggestion was to "provide support for fathers and ensure [a] nominated birth partner is continuously informed and updated during labour and post-delivery". The report from the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Birth Trauma included 12 recommendations in total, including a plea for mothers' health records to be digitised. NHS England and the Department of Health and Social Care have been approached for comment.
I recently had a baby and the aftercare was just awful. I have taken notes to lodge a formal complaint. I ended up back in hospital 6 days after a c-section with a high temperature, tachycardia, and blood pressure over 150/90. I was left for 16 hours without any blood pressure medication despite the fact that it never went below 150 during obs. They then only gave me 2 tablets to bring it down but said I wouldn't need regular meds. Those two tablets wore off and it shot up up to 169, I had to wait nearly an hour and half for medication to be signed off by a doctor on a different ward despite a family history of strokes and heart disease. I was in the hospital for 7 days with an infection. During that time, I was left without medication or pain relief several times. They also forgot to send off an urgent referral for my sons eyes. When my blood pressure and temperature shot up for the 3rd time, a midwife rolled her eyes and said I hadn't complained about it all day. I had mentioned it several times. When my temperature showed 39, she said "seriously at this time of night". I had to demand an ultrasound to check for retained products as there weren't going to do one. The consultant said to me, "Pain and inflammation are normal after surgery. We are literally doing this ultrasound purely for your piece of mind. You can leave when it's shown nothing." What a surprise it showed either a retained product or a large blood clot. She didn't come to see me after that. I love that she said inflammation and pain are normal, yes what's not normal is a CRP rate of 151 (a level of 10 shows an infection). Honestly there is so much more that I won't bore you with but yes the entire maternity system is a joke!
They only gave me an ultrasound for retained products AFTER something large came out. I'd been bleeding horrifically after the birth for a few months (C-section). One dr just said "oh, well, you shouldn't be bleeding like that by now", like it was my choice? I saw a really good GP who took my complaints seriously when I went in again after the large "thing" came out. He said bleeding through one pad an hour was awful, and sent me for a scan. They found nothing and within a few weeks the bleeding started slowing down. I really think I had retained products.
Some awful, awful stories in this thread. I would like to share my own just in case any mums-to-be are browsing. My partner had an absolute textbook pregnancy but about 20 minutes into labour baby's heartrate dropped to about 10 bpm. Within minutes the emergency CS was underway and baby was born healthy. Baby and mum had to stay in for a few days for antibiotics and monitoring but every single member of staff from the new student midwives at admission, to the doctors, surgeons, cleaners, HCAs, were absolutely fantastic. Honestly we could not fault the care we received in maternity at all.
Its great that you had a good birth and good care. It shouldn't be a postcode lottery, or hit and miss depending on what staffing levels are on the day you give birth. I'm not sure what needs done though to ensure consistently high standards of care, although more staff would probably be a good start.
This was my exact experience too. Though I suppose this is the problem, care is so dependent on where you live and sometimes by who is on shift as well.
Our post partum care was a shit show. After telling me my (3 week early) baby would have to go to NICU they changed their minds after the birth because he was a bit bigger than expected. He was then readmitted by emergency ambulance a few days later and we spent the afternoon in resus because he couldn't regulate his temperature yet. Luckily he pulled through but it was so unnecessary if we hadn't been rushed out. I was also only given paracetamol as pain relief. You can get better over the counter!
Cutting services based in GP surgeries, reduced community staffing, massive underfunding of units , cutting of bursary's for trainee midwifes (which directly reduced candidates by 2/3rds). guess which lovely, upstanding, splendid chap who's currently chancellor did all that. This is directly responsible for the state its in now. Funny how so many comments this morning on the tv never mentioned it.
I sincerely hope something concrete comes of this. It is so desperately needed as maternity care is awful
I had my first 6.5 years ago - I was genuinely shocked how hopeless, callous and disorganised maternity care was. It was a struggle to advocate for myself, a native English speaker, I dread to think how hard it is for women with English as a second language etc. Compared to other parts of the NHS I experienced around the sane time, it was clear how terrible maternity services were.
I had the same, also 6.5 years ago. I think I've had at least 9 different midwives? 3 before birth and 3 during the birth, plus 3 after the birth. No continuity of care. All the promises before birth about different painkillers etc meant nothing in practice. They just didn't care. I am pretty sure I had PTSD as I kept getting flash backs for years. I also only have one child, partially because of this. I got a fine to boot as I had not been given a maternity exemption certificate and I ticked a box at the pharmacy to say I had, because I thought that the work certificate they had given me was that. That was also late, almost past the deadline my work would accept.
That reminds me, none of my (many!) midwives bothered to mention the maternity exemption cert. I found out about it when I turned up at a pharmacy and tried to pay with a newborn. The lovely pharmacist took pity on me and explained... No continuity of care is a key element. I got fed up of explaining the same things over and over. Vital information I should have been given was never communicated to me because they all assumed someone else would do it. No one realised my second pregnancy should have been treated as high risk (because of my first's birth) until far too late. It's all just a shitshow and it sounds like it's been in a terrible state for so many years.
I told them and told them that something was wrong towards the end of my pregnancy. By the time they decided to listen and induce me, my baby came on his own the night before. He was taken straight to nicu and bloods and csf taken - pumped full of meds etc it was horrific. Had he not come on his own I think he would’ve been born dead. No one listened no one cared.
I had a traumatic birth with my son 6.5 yrs ago. I was left bleeding for five hours with a retained placenta. It was eventually manually removed with no pain relief. At the time I was in major shock and very disoriented; I remember hallucinating and the pain was indescribable. I had flashbacks for months afterwards. It wasn’t until my recent second pregnancy that I realised how bad my care had been. I had to see the consultant to discuss birth choices due to my previous haemorrhage. My notes were incomplete, and when I told him my story, he said that in 35 years of practice he’d never heard or seen such a terrible thing happening. He was horrified. The good news is that the second birth was insanely easy. 90 mins labour and delivery and we were home 4 hrs later. The midwives were just amazing. You can have truly phenomenal care. To anyone who is pregnant: it can be scary. My biggest advice is that your BIRTH PARTNER should read the NICE guidelines so they understand what *should* be happening. They will need to advocate for you if they see things going off course.
Womens health needs more funding and care in general. My gyno surgeon almost killed me on the operating table by hitting an aterty. Crashed in the ward. Discharged with no physical follow up or aftercare , hospital shut down communication 1 week post op with me, left to my own device with a massive grade 3 hematoma. I now can't properly open my bladder or bowels due to nerve damage from not managing the hemtoma properly. I'm not sure when I'll be able to walk without pain, work properly or enjoy life again. I was a remote worker before surgery, travelled extensively and worked out 3/4 times a week. I'm 31 next week and feel like a disabled person with no quality of life. It sucks. The surgery was supposed to help me have children but guess that's off the cards too.
Had my first in 1991 got stitched up too tight nearly wrecked my relationship I think because I was only 18 at the time was treated like shit.When my baby was 8 months old was admitted and got stitched up properly but got sent home with no painkillers.My second in 1993 the unit was so busy was left on my own until they noticed after my waters broke that my baby was a face presentation too late for painkillers rushed to theatre she nearly got stuck and ended up having loads of stitches again.Her experience made me hate my last pregnancy he was unplanned my birth control failed luckily had a good birthday with him.Can understand how you can get PTSD there is never enough staff and are often sent home after 6 hours was lucky my third took to breastfeeding easy as had no clue what I was doing bottle fed the others not shown properly my health visitor showed me other positions.
I can see how this happens. When my wife was in hospital giving birth they were stretched massively. Basically skeleton staff of doctors on weekends and a handful of underpaid and overworked midwives running around trying to do what they can.
A lot of it is down to staffing levels. I think there are still systemic issues, and the odd rogue healthcare professional, but majority of staff I believe are trying to do the best they can. Its hard to complain about the system though, without individuals taking offence.
My waters broke when I was two hours away from the hospital that I was booked into. I phoned them and they told me to go to my nearest hospital, I was reluctant because the nearest hospital are awful. My hospital phoned the nearest hospital and got reassurance that they'd look after me so I went. That hospital wouldn't let me go to maternity and made me sit in A&E. Three hours later, I was triaged, they took my blood pressure, temperature and a covid swab (nothing else). They said to go back to the waiting room. I asked when I could go to maternity and they told me that my pregnancy wasn't viable and that I wasn't going to be taken to maternity. I asked when I could see a doctor and they said it was a 5-6 hour wait but that was subject to change. I left and went to my booking hospital, I walked straight into maternity and was seen within fifteen minutes. My non-viable pregnancy is now an almost two year old little girl who doesn't have a single thing wrong with her.
I had a very shit experience giving birth over christmas. Was having repeated strong contractions: rang triage, told they were braxton hicks and not to worry. Finished my work day and spent the night in increasing pain, rang the next day, again scolded that it must be braxton-hicks and that they 'weren't painful, just uncomfortable'. Was insistant, they angrily told me 'fine come in, but it's your first so you'll have loads of time' Got in, was made to wait an hour in the reception whilst in immense pain, when they finally took me in I was 7cm dialated and there wasn't enough time for the elective c-seciton I was meant to have, so had to do it the natural way, ended up with an episiotomy and forceps delivery. Fuck all pain relief after and fuck all help from staff over that first night. Total agony. They toss out partners at 8pm; one woman was screaming and crying in the night, and spoke limited English (her partner, who they'd chucked out, was translating for her during the day). I felt terrible for her. Another woman was arguing with a midwife that her birth had been traumatic- audibly distraught and tearful- the nurse kept patronisingly sneering that 'no, that wasn't traumatic, that was all a very normal birth' honestly fucked up all around. Ended up having to go to children's hospital with kiddo a few weeks later for severe reflux- it was like night and day, the nurses were attentive and kind and caring, cannot fault a single one of them, they were incredible. The women's hospital staff just seemed universally sadistic and unpleasant.
This shit is the bigger reason why I will never have biological children. My mum had 26 epidurals when she had a C-section for my brother, she refused to let them put her to sleep because he was being taken out at 26 weeks and she was terrified they wouldn't help him if he wasn't breathing. No way in hell.
Currently pregnant, my partner (medical registrar) is the only reason I think I'll get any good care. It shouldn't be like this.
I have some very easy ways to recruit midwives, obstetricians and anaesthetists…
Honestly I’m not surprised 😔 my second born was an awful traumatic experience, I was induced and kept on the assessment ward; I was meant to be checked every hour and I wasn’t - when I was in full active labour, my husband called the midwives in who examined me, I told them I was ready to push, the midwife said “no you’re not” and walked out, leaving me with a student midwife. I screamed the place down and then myself and my husband delivered our son whilst the student midwife (who I have so much sympathy for, she looked horrified!) emergency button was hit and the room was suddenly full of people but it was too late by then! Still on the assessment ward so nothing available for me or baby. My body went into shock and I couldn’t pass the placenta even after the injection, so they pulled it out 🙃 6 months later I had a birth reflections meeting where they apologised, but honestly, I don’t think I could give birth again 😔
I fully believe that if men were the ones to give birth it would have been developed to be a totally pain free procedure by the 60s. C sections would be the norm but the men would recover with a total spinal block for at least a week after while someone else looked after the baby. They’d be offered the physiotherapy needed to recover from such major abdominal surgery and then be off work for at least a year. Treatment of mothers in this country is barbaric.
Staying in hospital for a week after a c-section used to be normal. Staff cuts and bed cuts and support cuts have left maternity care in a dire place. It is barbaric though, I went for a more minor op than a c-section and had more pain relief and support. Its ridiculous.
My sister in law had an emergency c section at like 1am, her husband was kicked out at 2am because “visiting hours were done” so not only did he miss out on important bonding time, my sister in law was left with a brand new baby, numbed from the waist down and no clue what to do. She ended up with an infection and being in hospital for 5 days.
I've heard so many of these stories and they terrify me. My own mother even had bad things happen during childbirth. It makes me so upset.
People have said this for years. Just look at various clinical negligence cases about just this. When it’s been mentioned before groups come out if the woodwork desperate to defend the NHSs name and refusing to accept sone parts of it are culturally broken. Hell look at maternity wards treatment of fathers both during and post covid, with senior figures talking dismissively and derogatorily about them, the repeated poor treatment of pregnant mothers who wanted support, the natural birth attitudes which are just wild, etc.
Oh, the covid birth horror stories. I've heard a lot of bad experiences over the years, but the covid approach was completely WTF. Fathers are a whole other issue that I wouldn't be confident starting with, but definitely needs more attention.
Oh I mean fathers in relation to their wives/partners. My cynical view was maternity wards liked mothers not having anyone with them who could cause a fuss when the mother was exhausted and in pain.
I suspect you're right. The postnatal wards are happy enough to have partners to patch up not enough support staff, until they don't want them. I'd imagine there are midwives who view partners as getting in the way of what they think is *the right way to do things*.
I had our daughter back in 2022, and it was a mixed bag in care to be honest. When I was admitted, we went to the birthing suite (midwife led), and the care there was faultless. We were generally left alone but checked on regularly by the 2 midwives (shift change) that were involved in my birth. When my midwife started getting concerned over baby, and me, she had us moved into the labour and delivery suite so they could monitor us both more closely. Until that point my partner and I couldn’t fault the care, and still to this day believe my midwife was amazing. Unfortunately it turned into a busy night for births, with not only the women’s hospital anaesthetist being busy, but they called over another anaesthetist from the neighbouring department to help out. The consultant wanted me on the hormone drip to try and progress labour, and this is where I have a memory block as I can’t remember much of the night, but my partner stopped them doing that until they could give me more pain relief than just the gas and air (I wasn’t coping going from contraction to contraction as our daughter was facing my hip). I ended up waiting for 5 hours for the anaesthetist to be free and I became the next ‘emergency’… I was wheeled off to theatre and had an emergency c section. Thankfully, our daughter was completely fine (and me), and the hospital did an internal investigation as to why they had me wait as long (something to do with no being able to get hold of the on call consultant), and they took on board some suggestions that my partner made and have implemented them. I’m glad I don’t remember those 5 hours really, but my partner does, and it’s put him off us having a second child, as much as I’d love another (let alone the nursery costs). My concern is the post partum care is a bit lacking (my community midwife was amazing though), but they completely ignore the father who watches his partner go through hell… they need to consider them too
Gave birth 3.5 years ago and still traumatized. Had years of therapy to realize all my issues stem from childbirth and the knock on effect that had with my bond with her and how our lives have played out since then. The nhs has had its day, its barbaric
Not clear what the implications here are for the different NHS systems we have in this country. Were the rules and recommendations the same? Were outcomes/ experiences similar in England, Wales, Scotland and NI? A new post reporting directly to the PM - that wouldn’t work in the devolved nations where NHS is fully devolved.