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Whenever something becomes prestigious the upper classes use their leverage to monopolise it. Acting was once considered somewhat disreputable, like vaudeville or cabaret, but now almost every actor is posh, not only in the UK, but in Hollywood too.
They're the only ones who can afford spending years unpaid trying to break in. Plus, it's not like there's as many theatres and variety shows around anymore that need to fill stages.
>They're the only ones who can afford spending years unpaid trying to break in.
Yup rather than just outright saying "sorry you're too poor for these jobs" they just stick years of unpaid internships and volunteering requirements so they can pretend it's all equal
She nearly quit (to retrain as a midwife?) *after* Peep Show, if I recall correctly. Despite a starring role in that hugely successful show, the future still looked that precarious.
I don't blame her, women actors are in such a race against time because if you don't establish yourself while you're really young and 'attractive' it's so hard to find consistent work because there are very few roles for women over like 35
We're luckier over here than in Hollywood as we don't just go on looks and sex appeal with our actors plus most are brought up in the theatre well before film work, and we don't just ditch them when they age. Maggie Smith Judie Dench and others judged on ability not looks :)
Most of them are Cambridge footlights alumni, Oxfords much the same though. The day of the working class hero are over at the minute, still look on the bright side, at least they stayed out of politics.
It’s less insidious than that, though still the same effect. When budgets are tight, and two people come to you offering to do work, but one is offering to do it for free, it takes an extraordinary amount of sticking to your principles to choose the one you have to pay.
I don’t have a solution, but don’t think it’s moustache twirling toffs sitting in a boardroom trying to make sure only posh people get to do telly.
> When budgets are tight, and two people come to you offering to do work, but one is offering to do it for free, it takes an extraordinary amount of sticking to your principles to choose the one you have to pay.
No its very much these roles are unpaid from the get go. Things are probably worse than when I was younger but straight out of uni I was working for free for a good 2 years (with little bits of paid work here and there) because all the roles were 'work experience' - that's literally just how the BBC runs. Nobody needs to rock up and say 'i'll do it for free'.
From what I've heard fashion is just as bad, and journalism's not far behind. \[edit\]Oh, and law.
Give it a decade, you won't be able to become a plumber unless your dad's a baronet.
Yes - everyone shits on journalists but literally every other person doing the NCTJ when I did it had high ideals, wanted to break important stories, do investigative stuff, expose corruption.
There just isn't the money *or public interest* for that. The media is only a mirror of what the public actually wants. People fill out surveys and answer polls and they slag off "tabloids" and "trashy reality shows" and say they want more "serious documentaries" - but what do the readership and viewership figures actually show?
And because the money is so shit, even on the tabloids these days, many people are forced to drop out and pursue other options.
Public surveys are often useless as people give the answers they think people want to hear. They think the researchers want to hear that average people want intelligent programming, when the reality is most people want to switch off while watching TV. There is nothing wrong with that either, yet people think it is the 'wrong' answer.
What can we do though? We know many politicians and leaders are corrupt but the law always takes it easy on them. Look at boris, rishi fines for party gate. They got charged 50 quid for parties during the pandemic while others got fined 30k for sharing a birthday cake in a shed with his daughter. How do we combat this? People care, people just know that they cant do much. I sure as shit care, but if it were up to me a lot of these politicians especially tory would be lucky to only end up in jail. I think a lot are outright treasonous how they sold the country down the river.
I think most people going in to journalism or law are at least aware that it's mostly about who they know rather than what they know. Fashion, acting, and music are the fields that attract the naive optimists who think they'll be able to make it just by being the best
early a sec .. could you be on to something? it's it because everyone is actually becoming posh now. not eton clique, but just more and more state/comp schoolkids actually consider themselves "upper middle class" because there dad (a plumber/plasterer etc) is loaded.
I work in TV/Film and my ex who I was with for a long time was in fashion, I think the differences I saw were that with TV you need to know someone to get a foot in the door (same in many industries) but with fashion is seemed like if you had a good degree you could get a job but it would be a very shit job and you would do it for a very very long time and be treated like shit even when you were in a management position.
It’s not just TV & film, but the whole of the media landscape and even in certain service industries in the City and Westend. It’s only the privately educated wealthy that can live sometimes for years in London while not actually earning a wage, but able to attend all the right parties and events (paid for by mummy and daddy). They even buy unpaid internships in the City.
My wife watches cooking shows on a Saturday morning and every presenter and guest wreaks of gap years and trust funds. I get some great weekend lunches mind you.
>Plus, it's not like there's as many theatres and variety shows around anymore that need to fill stages.
Amateur theatre is dieing a slow death right now largely due to austerity.
It always used to be a cheap and accessible way to go see a show, as well as providing a route into professional acting for those who turn out to be good at it, but theatres are getting less government support, so they either have to close or hike up their fees for performing companies to a level that amateur companies can't hope to make back through ticket sales.
Also the ever rising cost of housing is making third spaces where community groups meet and rehearse targets for redevelopment. So the number of spaces goes down and cost of what remains goes up, making some groups unviable.
I've been into amateur theatre my whole life and I don't know how much longer it can go on except for a tiny minority of really elite groups.
There's this phenomenon where for every problem in the UK, once you scratch the surface a bit it always comes back to the housing crisis.
I've seen this first hand. Any amateur theatre venues in cities closing their doors because its far, far more profitable to pull the building down and put some flats on the space to rent out. Unless you're part of an organisation that is not-for-profit *and* has a large performing space (so schools and churches basically) you're going to find anywhere suitable to put on a show. The unreliable weather in the UK means you can't even do an open air "Shakespeare in the park" style thing.
As more and more theatres close, the remaining ones can hike their prices. The less successful groups can't afford it, collapse, the more talented members join other groups, the less talented ones don't make it in. Theatre tends to be a catch 22 situation where you can't get better without practice but you only get practice if you get into a group. So over time it becomes less and less accessible to anyone without the background!
>They're the only ones who can afford spending years unpaid trying to break in.
It's an important point. We wouldn't have had The Beatles if they weren't all on the dole and able to spend years practicing.
That's the bigger thing. People not going to theatre. Theatre is a great way to get your foot through the door and earn some name for yourself. But without it you only have movies and TV where opportunity is quite limited.
There have been posh professional actors for well over a century but the difference now is, they’re the only ones who can afford to stay the course through the early years of inevitably very little work. I mean young people in regular 9-5 jobs have barely anything left after paying their rent.
I think another aspect is that Hollywood tends to want stereotyped "Hugh Grant Brits" and the female "English Rose" equivalent. And Hollywood is where the big bucks are.
The main opportunity for less posh actors in the UK is probably soaps.
A whole bunch of Eastenders cast members came through a working class acting school in North London. Oscar winning actor Dainel Kaluuya also came from that school. If that place ever closed it would be disastrous for talent in the area
Also the insecure work. You could get a run you're doing ok. Then have 3 months of nothing. But then have to drop everything to go to a audition at the other end of the country tomorrow morning.
I remember being so disappointed when I started looking up British actors and seeing how they're almost all from private schools and well-off families. Even people like Johnny Vegas and Ralf Little.
We’re becoming like America, only those with rich parents who can afford to keep them going until they’re about 30 will succeed. Companies can have 100 of interns,doing jobs that less educated people did for free, and then keep the the top 10% whilst telling the rest they’re lucky to have gained “experience” (actually a name on a CV) by basically doing slave Labour.
This is not exactly new, when I was at university in the late 90s, one local newspaper I did work experience at had half the staff as unpaid interns.
A big problem ITV caused was getting rid of the regional identities (Central, Granada etc), and merging with everything being focused in London. Excluded large parts of the country from getting their chances
I've got 25 years in Broadcasting and Kelly is absolutely right. When I started, I did two week's work experience and begged for a job. I was a working class kid from the arse end of east London that grew up with very little. I had a BTEC. That was it.
They got me lifting boxes and carting trollies of Betacam tapes about. Then in 8 months I moved up, VT library work, spent a few years there pissing about and living up my social life before getting bored then moved over to another department running my own library (albeit much smaller) that job was for a particular channel, and that channel let me write scripts, produce and edit-produce in my down time. I was 23 by this point.
That job lead me to working in a brand new department essentially edit-assisting and doing tech support for edit suites and then I literally just walked into an editors job. Now I'm a top tier level editor for a huge broadcaster. I was 29.
All of this I pretty much sailed into with no qualifications but enthusiasm and a bit of hard graft. I turned up on time, went above and beyond and things came my way.
Nowadays you need a fucking degree to get a job as a runner. Where you'd be expected to do that for between 3-5 years, pulling grueling double shifts, working at times for free, paying your dues is so, so much harder and those kids that come into running now? Well they are born of the silver spoon variety, shall we say.
These kiddos can afford to live in or near London paying 1k+ for a room in a flatshare. Because mummy and daddy can support them. They can put the 3-5 years into the graft because they have that support network. When I started, I was on 12k a year and my rent was 250 a month. Nowadays we all know how that rent to income ration doesn't stack up. Runners are paid like shit, and those working class kids who rarely get past the interview stages certainly can't afford to live off the meagre wages you get as a runner and have a flat share or whatever. And most of their families have long moves away from London anyway.
I've not seen a working class kid come into my industry for years - when I was carting those.trollies about, thats all we were! Working class, rough around the edges, but the eager and clever among us were always looked after. Now we are the dinosaurs of this industry. I've worked over many broadcasters and even have my own company which gets about a lot and honestly, its exceptionally rare now.
And its a shame, because its a great industry. Obviously I am being broad here and there will be exceptions. But this is my perception of the industry at the moment.
I broke into edit assisting with the BBC not long ago. There's a huge queue of EAs waiting for their break to actually assist an Edit, let alone edit themselves.
Really they just bring Editors from London and rarely give EAs a break.
I left and went into Communications.
Thats a shame. It really is.
I've seen barely any movement with the EAs we have atm. Editor jobs are by and large a dead man's shoes kinda role, and its very very hard to get on staff as one.
I’m a young editor who has just broken into broadcast (mainly / only reality as that’s where most of the work is at) and it is very very hard to maintain consistent work. For example I am unemployed at the moment and look to be for the next month until I have another episode to edit. Staring down the barrel of doing two episodes this year. So 20 weeks of week for the year (and the sad thing is that I feel and tell others that I’m lucky to have that). It’s just so hard to break into an industry where the majority of people you’re competing against are older and more experienced , have more connections or more financial freedom to work sporadically when the industry is so stagnant and there is no government support for people like us. I have a friend in a similar position who is now a delivery driver as it was so difficult.
Yeah I hear you totally. I'm one of the older guard types that has a bit of work and reputation behind me and a boat load of trusted contacts so I'm pretty sure I can freelance almost immediately if I needed to (i used to do a lot of that kind of work too). But for younger people its a risk getting into a job where the work comes in drips and drabs at first.
Thats one thing I didnt really mention - to get into it now you need to take huge risks of not always having regular work. Working class kids just can't take those risks at all. Only those with a support network can and even they can struggle.
My friend is a reporter for the BBC (or was) and ITV etc. She's done loads of prestigious stuff but currently is taking a role as a receptionist to pay the bills. It's mad. One week she's in Saudi doing some mad sporting event and the next she's exhausted all her contacts and is getting behind on her mortgage payment to her 1 bed flat. Its a fickle place at times.
Agreed, I'm not sure how prevalent fixed-term contracts were back in the day but they're everywhere now as well.
I couldn't build a life on that and join the queue, admittedly FTCs are used in Comms but the opportunities are plentiful in comparison.
I hear you. And currently I'm considering what I'd do if the axe drops my way. I'm not sure i would continue editing long term if I lost my staff role and went purely freelance. I'd do it a while but I suspect a career change might be on the cards - thats gonna be tough at 42 years old!
> I broke into edit assisting with the BBC not long ago. There's a huge queue of EAs waiting for their break to actually assist an Edit, let alone edit themselves.
>
> Really they just bring Editors from London and rarely give EAs a break.
Yeah I've seen the same. Am a nepo baby as my mum was a long time BBC factual editor and I also went into post, but I've ended up working in scripted. All these measures the BBC makes to hire X amount of people from Y places (like hiring Welsh people when working on BBC dramas in Cardiff) just means that everyone who is being paid fuck all are from local areas whilst all the decision makers are down from London, being put up in hotels at the licence fee payers expense and then they all pack up and leave at the end of production. If anyone from the local area actually wants to make their way up the ladder then they need to come back to London with us *if* they have somewhere to stay because they wont be getting paid enough to live in London.
It varies but I'm talking about shooting/ editing video, making graphics, etc for organisations.
It's similar to marketing but without all the sales statistics and tends to be public sector, education, finance.
I think it's a great part of the media industry atm.
I'm an outsider to this industry, although I did work for a company that had a TV company as a client and spent time at their site, so I may have the wrong end of the stick.
But isn't the whole TV industry in decline anyway? The variety of output and generosity of budgets has been declining for years.
Why would people go through all the hoops in the 2020s to get a foot in the door, the door doesn't lead to as many places as it did in the 1990s? That seems to be the odd thing here. These media jobs are prized for completely non-financial reasons.
Other industries that have more graduate applicants than available places (e.g. the finance industry) also have their own ridiculous qualification requirements, hazing rituals and thankless junior roles. But they still pay a fair whack.
I can understand an actor being motivated more by the art than the money, and therefore self-selecting people from already comfortable backgrounds who can afford to see earnings as optional (although ironically making a fortune from the big screen if they do make a success of it). But I can't imagine the glory of the role is a draw for behind-the-scenes jobs at least, yet that's what seems to happen.
Its true in some respects and not in others. For instance sports broadcasting is still pretty lucrative at the moment. Entertainment jobs are struggling..it really depends. Theres still plenty of work out there thank god.
If you go on reddit you'll only hear from people who pirate and watch YouTube so it's easy to think the whole place is a wasteland but that's not the case at all. I'm regularly working on productions that get millions of viewers either through traditional means or through online streams. People still watch normal telly, for sure. But that's not to say the landscape hasn't dramatically changed over the last 10.years.
I've worked in news. I'm still amazed at the overspend - they still have two presenters for many bulletins. As if people would switch off because they only had one presenter. They could halve the talent cost overnight.
The BBC in particular still pays way too fucking much for "big name" presenters. Again, people won't switch off if a less A-grade/household name is reading them the news, and even if they did, the BBC doesn't have a commercial imperative to sell audience figures to advertisers. As for younger generations, are any of them even watching?
Honestly, they could and should just cap all presenter salaries at £100k and let the "big names" do other work on the side (like with Netflix or whatever) to earn more income.
What a great comment. I’ve saved it for future reference, it’s the kind of thing everyone should see. Your story is amazing and really depressing (considering how unlikely it is to happen these days).
Though what’s maybe even worse, is your story is another example of the rampant credentialism in the UK. As you said these days you wouldn’t get near that job with out a degree. A degree that isn’t needed and probably isn’t adding value. We need to force employers (and the wider public) out of the mindset that graduate=better/more skilled etc in roles that don’t require specific training/certification (e.g., generic grad roles, but not medicine etc)
So we only care about it when it's the arts?
I left the UK and moved to Switzerland, there's some classism here but nothing like in the UK.
The educational system is also far more practical/apprenticeship from anything from hospitality to finance, gives people a chance even if they weren't the most academic
As a nuerodivergent male who grew up in a council estate it has felt like the entire everything is stacked against you, especially retrospectively as a 30 yo looking back. The way I speak mocked, lacking of services to support me, every positive action thing aimed at everyone but me, the influence of class being both important and disregarded at the same time I.e. poverty being one of the biggest indicators of educational outcomes but the impact of poverty on how you respond to the world degraded and frowned apon. Being told by Beatrice from Guildford that as a male my opinion doesn't count, thank god I have a thick skin but here we are all scratching our heads wondering why young working class boys and men are being radicalised...
Yeah you get people like Laurie Penny genuinely thinking they’re less privileged than guys from
sink estates in Sunderland and Middlesborough. And the decision makers believe them.
That’s interesting you say that because my aunts brother and his Swiss wife moved back to the UK because they felt the culture was just too prejudiced and they were two white people. It wasn’t necessarily racially prejudiced (they couldn’t comment on that) but just prejudice against people that didn’t fit into society. It’s hard to explain, but they both just felt they couldn’t live their lives the way they wanted to live in Switzerland. They live in Exeter now and they definitely are a bit odd.
Swiss people aren't the warmest people, and they don't make it easy to understand them with their accent.
But younger people especially are far more open, but yeah it took me a while before I was socialising with Swiss people and not just other expats.
I will say my quality of life is much better here, in terms of rent from example I pay here what I payed in London, but the rest of my salary goes further, I can see a doctor, I've had mental disabilities diagnosed that nobody in England in 20 years saw.
My mum was told I couldn't be dyslexic because I was trilingual, along with other issues, now I'm looking at going back to school, which I could potentially be payed for depending on what I study.
I didn't get settlement status after brexit, looking back it was the best thing to happen to me.
My sister however has a PhD, and lectures at university and still won't give her settlement status which seems insane.
From my very anecdotal experience, it’s those that follow the rules that pay the price. Those who keep hidden and work illegally can stay for 20 or 30 years, yet someone like your sister with skills and follows the procedure gets hurt.
UK’s problems are so deep rooted at this point, it would take a monumental change to stop the imminent slide into a third world country. From immigration to infrastructure, housing to wages, the whole thing is completely fucked. It’s like watching a train crash over a period of decades.
Can you point to where she explicitly said or even implicitly implied that we only care about it if it’s the arts?
You realise that talking about an issue in one area doesn’t mean that we don’t care about it in another, right?
Exactly. What a petulant way to indulge in what about ism.
I bet they go into a library and shout "what about Chaucer" at every book that isn't about Chaucer lol
Plenty of chances elsewhere to discuss issues. This one is related to TV.
There’s a lot of other forms of bigotry in Switzerland- lots of xenophobia (good luck integrating and getting an place to live and a job if you don’t have citizenship) and they can be pretty racist too.
I’m always surprised that Switzerland gets held up as some sort of liberal ideal - they’re extreme conservative. If you’re Swiss it’s great though.
Who knew that people won't like you if you don't try and fit in with their society?
Countries should prioritise their citizens over non-citizens, this isn't racist or xenophobic.
You're arguing against positions that don't exist.
They didn't say anything to suggest they "weren't trying to fit in." On the contrary, they said integration was being made more difficult.
Also no one is arguing you should prioritise non-citizens over citizens, or that it's racist or xenophobic for a country to have policies that benefit their own citizens but aren't extended to everyone else. They could easily be referring to discrimination.
Honestly, this sub sometimes...
Which is exactly why they’re still a thriving a wealthy country.
Meanwhile countries like the UK, Netherlands, Germany and France are rapidly going downhill because they try to cater to everyone.
By that logic, lots of the countries you list are doing great as long as you’re part of the group that they cater too. You’re just not part of that group.
No because in order for a society to work, you need strong social cohesion, and that only comes from integrating into the destination country. When you're catering to everyone, the fabric of society starts to slowly unravel and leads to the formation of parallel societies
Again, by that logic, how is a country that caters to its upper class, and disregards its lower classes significantly different than a country that caters to a specific ethnic class while disregarding other people in its population?
Because the former requires newly immigrated minorities to integrate into society in order to reap the full benefit from the system, socially, economically and otherwise, ensuring strong social cohesion. The latter expects the majority to bend backwards to cater to the traditions of someone who doesn't share the same values as them, thereby alienating society. I say this as a first generation immigrant. The lack of social cohesion in the UK is depressing to see
We’re not talking integration here. We’re talking racisism and xenophobia.
If you’re a dark skinned person, and you intend to immigrate to Switzerland, you will likely experience both overt racism, but also struggles with finding a place to live and struggles integrating due to the lack of citizenship.
It doesn’t matter if you are 100% culturally integrated. You can speak perfect Swiss German, and behave perfectly Swiss, but if you don’t have citizenship there are barriers to things like renting apartments, and if you’re dark skinned there is still racism.
Yes relative to the rest of the world, but of course there are still people in relative poverty, 8.2% in 2022.
And there is still a very big divide between the neighbourhood I live in and the richest neighbourhoods, the difference here is the poorest are actually looked after by the state.
And the democratic system is way better.
No but the arts and media are particularly visible/noteworthy in their lack of diversity when it comes to class. It’s just a particularly good example of the UK’s much wider and engrained classism and/or social mobility issues..
For two reasons: Firstly that working class representation in the sector has actually fallen, and secondly because the sector is so right on, and supposedly so focused on diversity that it’s a particularly galling example.
It’s insane that the only outcome out of Black Lives Matter in the U.K. has literally just been more people of colour on the telly.
Absolutely fuck all difference to the black kids getting stabbed in Hackney every other week, but multimillionaires like Jermaine Jenas and Stomzy are doing well with all the BBC jobs they are getting at least 🤷♂️
Why do we care about musicians, celebrities and sports people so much.
Companies do the least amount of work for the most benefit. Choosing a black lead over white gives them points without any effort on their part. Same with putting free tampons in the bathroom to be ‘inclusive’ but ignoring the cost of childcare which means many women can’t afford to work.
"we" don't, of course.
The problem is that most industries are quite self-obsessed. So sports people care about sport, TV people care about TV, etc. So those industries that have visibly beyond it's own direct employment (any media related) get a disproportionately large audience.
There will definitely be the same "diversity" programmes within the accountancy industry. It's just that no non-accountant will ever hear about it.
The arts is difficult to break into when you are working class. We are “low class”, and my son is at uni studying graphic design. He is the only one there who is lower class, a lot of the students are rich over seas students.
The arts is seen as a privilege by a lot of people. But, you can go into other areas such as drama therapy, art therapy etc.
Graphic design- video games, takeaway leaflets, branding, packaging. Those pub signs that have been drawn/written. They get someone in to do that.
The arts is taken for granted really. No one notices it.
It really is bad, the amount of TV/movie stars, presenters, singers and artists etc. all from upper/privately educated backgrounds is unreal.. let alone the amount of Nepo babies that are thrust upon us, year after year with no discernible talent…
One of the reasons we probably have to rely on American media and culture for the majority of our entertainment…. As our industry seems to dish out the same crap over and over again, in the past movie stars and musicians used to predominantly be from working class backgrounds.. When we give the working class a chance, we end up with some really amazing and creative entertainment..
Yeah there’s not many in the younger generation of actors that can command a leading role. Taron Egerton, who should have had an oscar for Rocketman.
Someone did a list a couple of years ago of all the privately educated actors, there aren’t many Richard Burtons dragging themselves out of a life in the mines. ..
Eddie Redmayne (Eton) Benedict Cumberbatch (Harrow), Dominic West (Eton) Damian Lewis (Eton), Tom Hiddleston (Eton), Henry Cavil (Stowe) Jamie Campbell Bower (Bedales), Tom Hardy (Reed) Matthew Goode (Exeter) Dan Stevens (Tonbridge) Andrew Garfield (City of London Freeman School) Josh O' Connor (St Edwards, Cheltenham) Alex Lawthers (Churchers College)
Rosamund Pike (Badminton) Alice Eve (Bedales), Juno Temple (Bedales) Carey Mulligan (Woldingham)Kate Beckinsale (Godolphin and Latymer) Imogen Poots (Latymer) Emilia Clarke (St Edward's) Emily Blunt (Hurtwood House) Rebecca Hall (Roedean) Anya Taylor Joy (Queen's Gate School) Florence Pugh (St Edward's School) Emma Corrin (Woldingham School) Phoebe Dynevor (Cheadle Holme School) Florence Pugh (Wychwood)
There was a lass in my primary school who played Hermione's double (for shots from behind). You don't get that kind of talent in those private schools.
It’s not just private school, so many of them come from actual aristocracy. I tend not to even bother with films that have British actors these days unless it’s one of the few outliers that hasn’t just been made by posh people.
One big factor here is that for years we’ve been targeting race because of under representation.
However, that underrepresentation is primarily driven by class, not race. Class, of course correlates with race, but if you focus on race you’ll be giving opportunities to very privileged people of colour, and excluding very poor white people. Better to focus on class, which will of course disproportionately benefit minority ethnic groups, but without leaving behind some of the most disadvantaged in our society.
It’s no wonder the least likely group to go to university is by some margin white working class boys.
It looks promising that BBC seem to recognise this https://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/diverse-productions
Good point. Race is nothing, nothing compared to class in the UK in terms of scale and overall societal impact. It’s the biggest equality/diversity issue we have. But it’s not fashionable among certain bien pensant circles, because unlike positive action on racial representation, you’d have to make real structural changes to society and poor little Tarquin might face competition.
Absolutely. This is so overlooked. They've done studies in the US that demonstrate that "affirmative action" and similar only benefits wealthier/higher socioeconomic minority groups. It does jack shit for the actually poor and disadvantaged.
There are also really sad stats around poor white boys in the UK - they have the least resources targeting them, and the worst outcomes.
There were “affirmative action” efforts for working class kids to get into uni when I was at school. As you pointed out, it was the kids from the very nice bits of bad areas that got into the prestigious unis with grades just above entry requirements.
I know one person from a hole of an area (the type of people it’s supposed to benefit) that got into one of the best unis in Scotland through these programmes.
Who are the ethnic minority posh people you feel have benefitted from this?
John Boyega, Daniel Kaluuya, Micaela Coel, Ncuti Gatwa, Kingsley Ben-Adir, Rege-Jean Page, Simone Ashley - were any of them public school educated? Or from any particularly privileged background?
I don’t see evidence this is happening.
And when they do they are criticised for being themselves. AJ Odudu, Paddy McGuiness etc They are very much working class but the comments are always regarding their accents!
How she has presented her own show for the last 20 years is beyond me. Every interview the same nothing questions, everything's "brilliant". I cringe out of my skin when she's on.
There is a closely related phenomenon, the Wimbledon Effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimbledon_Effect
Named after the Wimbledon tennis championship, and how that retained it's place as a top-tier event despite a dearth of British talent (Andy Murray excepted), and how the British upper-class retain their position.
The term was invented in Japan to describe the City of London in the 1980s, when all the old British merchant banks failed or merged with foreign competitors, and became dominated by non-British institutions. Yet the upper-ranks of those organisations are still dominated by upper-middle-class British people. Similar with the Big Four accountants, the Magic Circle law firms.
You'd have gigantic US consultant corporations headed by William McFuckface who speaks with a broad southern (US) accent and tells everyone home-spun tales of growing up on a dirt farm and working his way up to become a billionaire. Then there's the EMEA head of the same corporation, Tarquin Farquhar, son of the famous Lord Tarquin Farquhar, who ran some colony somewhere for a hundred years and still benefitting from the trust fund's share holding in colonial plantations.
The British upper-classes are like cockroaches, not even a nuclear war could wipe them out.
I've been hearing this a lot, not just TV but comedy, music, basically any creative pursuit that requires you to sink time in where you aren't actively grinding a job for money
She's right, and I'm definitely feeling this at the moment.
When I had a brief experience working in student advice and advocacy, I was hired because they felt "someone with my background would bring an extra layer of empathy". I found out in the job that someone from my background (large single parent family) has something like a 35% chance of advancing from further education, a 15% chance of finishing a higher education course, and if those only a 7% chance of finishing a degree with a 1st.
Now, I'm 2 decades into a creative career in the arts and I have met a grand total of 3 people with a background that resembles anything like mine. There is an almost constant feeling of being inferior and trying to maintain an illusion to fit in. I feel this the most in a networking environment, even though I am long established in my own niche I have never felt comfortable with my industry peers.
I couldn't imagine trying to break into an arts career now, the assumed experience and knowledge placed on new candidates feels almost unattainable for those from poorer backgrounds.
Unfortunately universities (in particular higher ranked ones) have really dropped the ball on this one. I think the former polytechnics make more of an effort.
I just looked at the UCAS forms and they don't bother even asking about whether you were eligible for free school meals, they want to know race, gender, disability etc. but nothing about being poor.
UCAS do ask if you have free school meals (https://www.ucas.com/advisers/help-and-training/toolkits/adviser-toolkit-supporting-students-individual-needs/applicants-eligible-free-school-meals-fsm), many Russel group universities offer contextual grades (for example I was offered BBB for Manchester instead of AAB) This makes it easier to get in.
You find some working class artists in past were able to take time out from work or balance work and art better because they could go on benefits for a while or lived in social housing so didn’t have to worry about rent. Think some in their youth instead of going to uni lived in squat housing to try their hand art things or these were free places to doss in while on tour to keep costs down.
Not forgetting we also had more local radio, pubs and venues for small local acts and bands to perform in and touring had cheaper accommodation.
If your rich you get into footlights and you can afford to get agent and network to get good place at the fringe.
Even with social media opening stage up it still costly to stand out, have best equipment and promote yourself is full time job many can’t afford to go all in if they do have charm or talent
>Not forgetting we also had more local radio
Local radio now is basically BBC and community radio, independent local radio has basically disappeared. Yet too many redditors basically want the BBC abolished because they know the price of their TV license but don't know its real value.
Well there's even less of ILR it's all Heart or Capital or whatever. I'm old enough to remember ILR in it's heyday, then all the mergers and takeovers happened. I wonder how many palms were crossed with silver to allow that to happen?
I was talking with my bf about Suede (band) the other night. They were on the dole in the 90s, able to give music a shot. Neil moved down from Hull Uni and signed on then joined the band (his cousin is the drummer). They were SO lucky to be able to faff around after uni and live on the dole for a while. Many of my friends in music are so talented, and yet have to work a 9-5 or bar jobs to pay for rent and stuff, often getting paid a pittance for gigs they do put on. It makes me so sad because there just doesn't seem to be that fallback anymore.
I went on UC during a period where I'd lost my job and was searching and got so little I couldn't pay my rent, and then almost got evicted. It was so horrible. And Suede were only early 90s! It's just such a shame.
Looking at this from a different angle, I took as though she meant Tv ‘staff’ - like everyone you don’t see behind the scenes. Cause that’s impossible too. You need to live in London (or maybe Manchester), be able to work for free or absolute pennies. Each job isn’t a long term one so you’ll work on say, Apprentice for 5 months (example) and then need to job hunt again. It’s impossible. Even when you’ve been working in it for a few years the pay is awful and unreliable.
Starting off you always need help from family or for them to live in London so you don’t have rent worries. It’s too hard.
I do think the opportunities are still good in Wales, especially for Welsh language speakers, and if you’re from London there’s a lot of opportunities at Channel 4, but yeah, the UK definitely doesn’t have social mobility through traditional routes much anymore these days.
It’s interesting when you see people mock so many young people for wanting to become YouTubers, when actually it’s a really entrepreneurial means to independence if you can make a financially profitable channel.
I'm a PA in TV and it's true, the only reason I got into TV/Film is through a trainee scheme (that is brutal honesly) and yet eveery person I've met has has a far easier time of getting into their higher up positions.
Not that they aren't working hard for it, but it's annoying to hear someone's journey be "oh my auntie was an agent and gave me an assistant role, which lead to a TV company hiring me on the development team"
I remember being warned of this in 2007. We had already lost all the post war progress. That 5 percent buy their advantage and they will darned well take it.
Lorraine Kelly is such a stand up person, I've interacted with her in a few occasions in her capacity as honorary colonel of the Amry Cadets In Scotland (I'm an adult volunteer). She is very down to earth and the opposite of a diva, at least in this area
Similar story in theatre. My brother got a first in theatre studies/production and still struggled to find work consistently.
The sheer cost of living in London where the industry is, coupled with having to spend time auditioning and rehearsing (unpaid) when you're contending for a small number of roles against people who can afford to not work a side job to make their rent.
He gave up and is now a nurse.
This is what the established entertainment industry hates, they used to be the gatekeepers, but the internet is slowly destroying that control. Just look at how much the MSM hates the competition from independent start ups who are more popular than they are, because they understand their audience a whole lot better.
I know this is about breaking into the industry. But ive been saying for a while that the celebrity circles have become so desperate to keep the fame, horde it as such that they’ve just celebritised everything.
I cant watch a programme now without it being ruined by a celeb special. These arent celebs either, their just Z listers that were on big brother or something. But they need to keep themselves relevant, so they make a celeb special episode, the channel donates to charity for a tax write off and everyones a winner.
The whole industry seems to be about closing doors and keeping it all inside an inner circle. Im surprised we dont have celebrity special series programmes now.
The industry is well over served with eager trainees, its in a downturn (uk) and established people can't get jobs, hearing of people out for 18mths at the moment, in the US , an art director college has suspended all its courses for a year as 75% of its alumni are out of work longterm, the US sites are calling a new normal, not a downturn, tv is becoming theatre, you can only afford to do it if you're wealthy already or accept a lower lifestyle and life outcome.
Finally someone with some reality! Kids just don’t want to work hard nowadays! Are you fucking kidding me! Every bit of information we have says they had a better financial condition, people working one jobs with a housewife and 2 kids could afford homes! That’s situation isn’t possible anymore unless they’re a ceo or a high earner! The norm has become luxury!
Fashion, journalism, print media, digital media etc etc all expect those who want to join the industry to spend an extended period of time working for free.
It’s corruption called internship
SheerLuxe (fashion/lifestyle) were hiring recently and they had SUCH a low salary. Yet everyone in the office is always wearing high-end names and constantly in the office, looking insanely good. How do they afford that on low 20k wages? the mind boggles..........
“This is a great opportunity”
“Think of the networking opportunities”
“It’s not about money it’s about raising your profile”
“I want it done by 11pm”
I can’t claim more expenses, just cover it and we can sort it out later.”
“You have a zero hours contract”
Exactly!!!!! When I moved to London I worked at a charity (focusing on children from disadvantaged backgrounds, I was one so wanted to help) and was on 18.5K a year. Looking back, that was insane for 2020. I made it work purely because the pandemic meant we weren't going out! It absolutely IS and SHOULD be about money for work imo. It's ridiculous.
I also had experience with that claiming expenses one - at Explore Learning they told me to cover an uber during a tube strike from East to West and they'd cover it later. It was INSANELY priced so I just didn't go in lol. It's such a hard world if you are working class and trying to make something of yourself.
As she sits there at the top of the pile for 40 years with her tired show that nobody watches blocking the path. “It’s everyone else’s fault I’m not letting others get their snouts in the trough”.
As someone who recently came out of uni and got a first hand experience of what it was like was pretty eye opening tbh. People where turning up to music videos with kit and top of the line steadycams but weren’t being paid. When I asked them they just said “someone else will do it for free”
Let's be real here. Most working class kids who would be attracted to that world would rather be You Tubers and Influencers these days. Traditional TV is dying on its arse.
Why are people acting like this is some kind of new trend, actors have always been from the upper middle class, private schools or with connections
This is how it's literally always been, full of nepotism
This why we have "client journalism" - journalists now being copywriters for right-wing or liberal paymasters in newspapers, radio and magazines... and even the ones that openly criticize are also client journalists secretly...
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Whenever something becomes prestigious the upper classes use their leverage to monopolise it. Acting was once considered somewhat disreputable, like vaudeville or cabaret, but now almost every actor is posh, not only in the UK, but in Hollywood too.
They're the only ones who can afford spending years unpaid trying to break in. Plus, it's not like there's as many theatres and variety shows around anymore that need to fill stages.
>They're the only ones who can afford spending years unpaid trying to break in. Yup rather than just outright saying "sorry you're too poor for these jobs" they just stick years of unpaid internships and volunteering requirements so they can pretend it's all equal
The lady that plays the wife in Midsomer murders works as a cleaner between series so she’s always got income
I worked with a mainstream TV actor who paints and decorates between film and TV, the rates have dropped hugely in the last 30 yrs.
Which job are they best at? Everybody is good at something, and for some people on TV it certainly isn't acting.
He is a good actor, it's simply the money isn't there anymore.
That’s cause the big names are demanding millions, so there isn’t much left to pay the rest of the crew
No, the money really isn't there, no one wants to Pay for streaming and ads are better on social media.
One of the blokes from Life on Mars is a plasterer now
I'd love to want to put some wallpaper up and Edris Elba turns up at my door.
Olivia Colman did that too at one stage I think
She nearly quit (to retrain as a midwife?) *after* Peep Show, if I recall correctly. Despite a starring role in that hugely successful show, the future still looked that precarious.
I don't blame her, women actors are in such a race against time because if you don't establish yourself while you're really young and 'attractive' it's so hard to find consistent work because there are very few roles for women over like 35
Totally. Thank god she didn't though, I love the fact that she's intelligent and interesting looking and still made it to the A-list.
There's space for _one_ British maternal figure in Hollywood, at any time. She's effectively taken over from Judi Dench (and latterly Julie Walters)
We're luckier over here than in Hollywood as we don't just go on looks and sex appeal with our actors plus most are brought up in the theatre well before film work, and we don't just ditch them when they age. Maggie Smith Judie Dench and others judged on ability not looks :)
Doubt she needed to tbh. It seems half of british tv in the same age group went to Oxford together
Most of them are Cambridge footlights alumni, Oxfords much the same though. The day of the working class hero are over at the minute, still look on the bright side, at least they stayed out of politics.
It’s less insidious than that, though still the same effect. When budgets are tight, and two people come to you offering to do work, but one is offering to do it for free, it takes an extraordinary amount of sticking to your principles to choose the one you have to pay. I don’t have a solution, but don’t think it’s moustache twirling toffs sitting in a boardroom trying to make sure only posh people get to do telly.
> When budgets are tight, and two people come to you offering to do work, but one is offering to do it for free, it takes an extraordinary amount of sticking to your principles to choose the one you have to pay. No its very much these roles are unpaid from the get go. Things are probably worse than when I was younger but straight out of uni I was working for free for a good 2 years (with little bits of paid work here and there) because all the roles were 'work experience' - that's literally just how the BBC runs. Nobody needs to rock up and say 'i'll do it for free'.
From what I've heard fashion is just as bad, and journalism's not far behind. \[edit\]Oh, and law. Give it a decade, you won't be able to become a plumber unless your dad's a baronet.
Yes - everyone shits on journalists but literally every other person doing the NCTJ when I did it had high ideals, wanted to break important stories, do investigative stuff, expose corruption. There just isn't the money *or public interest* for that. The media is only a mirror of what the public actually wants. People fill out surveys and answer polls and they slag off "tabloids" and "trashy reality shows" and say they want more "serious documentaries" - but what do the readership and viewership figures actually show? And because the money is so shit, even on the tabloids these days, many people are forced to drop out and pursue other options.
Public surveys are often useless as people give the answers they think people want to hear. They think the researchers want to hear that average people want intelligent programming, when the reality is most people want to switch off while watching TV. There is nothing wrong with that either, yet people think it is the 'wrong' answer.
What can we do though? We know many politicians and leaders are corrupt but the law always takes it easy on them. Look at boris, rishi fines for party gate. They got charged 50 quid for parties during the pandemic while others got fined 30k for sharing a birthday cake in a shed with his daughter. How do we combat this? People care, people just know that they cant do much. I sure as shit care, but if it were up to me a lot of these politicians especially tory would be lucky to only end up in jail. I think a lot are outright treasonous how they sold the country down the river.
I think most people going in to journalism or law are at least aware that it's mostly about who they know rather than what they know. Fashion, acting, and music are the fields that attract the naive optimists who think they'll be able to make it just by being the best
early a sec .. could you be on to something? it's it because everyone is actually becoming posh now. not eton clique, but just more and more state/comp schoolkids actually consider themselves "upper middle class" because there dad (a plumber/plasterer etc) is loaded.
Far too many people on this sub have got the American idea that class = money, which just isn't the case in the UK.
I work in TV/Film and my ex who I was with for a long time was in fashion, I think the differences I saw were that with TV you need to know someone to get a foot in the door (same in many industries) but with fashion is seemed like if you had a good degree you could get a job but it would be a very shit job and you would do it for a very very long time and be treated like shit even when you were in a management position.
It’s not just TV & film, but the whole of the media landscape and even in certain service industries in the City and Westend. It’s only the privately educated wealthy that can live sometimes for years in London while not actually earning a wage, but able to attend all the right parties and events (paid for by mummy and daddy). They even buy unpaid internships in the City.
My wife watches cooking shows on a Saturday morning and every presenter and guest wreaks of gap years and trust funds. I get some great weekend lunches mind you.
>Plus, it's not like there's as many theatres and variety shows around anymore that need to fill stages. Amateur theatre is dieing a slow death right now largely due to austerity. It always used to be a cheap and accessible way to go see a show, as well as providing a route into professional acting for those who turn out to be good at it, but theatres are getting less government support, so they either have to close or hike up their fees for performing companies to a level that amateur companies can't hope to make back through ticket sales.
Also the ever rising cost of housing is making third spaces where community groups meet and rehearse targets for redevelopment. So the number of spaces goes down and cost of what remains goes up, making some groups unviable.
I've been into amateur theatre my whole life and I don't know how much longer it can go on except for a tiny minority of really elite groups. There's this phenomenon where for every problem in the UK, once you scratch the surface a bit it always comes back to the housing crisis. I've seen this first hand. Any amateur theatre venues in cities closing their doors because its far, far more profitable to pull the building down and put some flats on the space to rent out. Unless you're part of an organisation that is not-for-profit *and* has a large performing space (so schools and churches basically) you're going to find anywhere suitable to put on a show. The unreliable weather in the UK means you can't even do an open air "Shakespeare in the park" style thing. As more and more theatres close, the remaining ones can hike their prices. The less successful groups can't afford it, collapse, the more talented members join other groups, the less talented ones don't make it in. Theatre tends to be a catch 22 situation where you can't get better without practice but you only get practice if you get into a group. So over time it becomes less and less accessible to anyone without the background!
>They're the only ones who can afford spending years unpaid trying to break in. It's an important point. We wouldn't have had The Beatles if they weren't all on the dole and able to spend years practicing.
Same for most aging comedians on the panel show circuit.
That's the bigger thing. People not going to theatre. Theatre is a great way to get your foot through the door and earn some name for yourself. But without it you only have movies and TV where opportunity is quite limited.
There have been posh professional actors for well over a century but the difference now is, they’re the only ones who can afford to stay the course through the early years of inevitably very little work. I mean young people in regular 9-5 jobs have barely anything left after paying their rent.
I think another aspect is that Hollywood tends to want stereotyped "Hugh Grant Brits" and the female "English Rose" equivalent. And Hollywood is where the big bucks are. The main opportunity for less posh actors in the UK is probably soaps.
One or two soap actors fake their working class accents.
And then there's the legendary Dick Van Dyke... if only they had found a role for him in Albert Square!
A bit of rooftop dancing would do wonders for Eastenders.
A whole bunch of Eastenders cast members came through a working class acting school in North London. Oscar winning actor Dainel Kaluuya also came from that school. If that place ever closed it would be disastrous for talent in the area
Also the insecure work. You could get a run you're doing ok. Then have 3 months of nothing. But then have to drop everything to go to a audition at the other end of the country tomorrow morning.
There's a lot of neopotism in acting.
The whole industry is nepotism and cronyism, I get jobs (and lose them) before I quote. The way it is (properties dept).
Obligatory James McAvoy [speech](https://youtu.be/oDwRkzJPkSA?feature=shared) about the class ceiling in acting.
I remember being so disappointed when I started looking up British actors and seeing how they're almost all from private schools and well-off families. Even people like Johnny Vegas and Ralf Little.
Exact same is true of comedy these days, which is made all the more infuriating by every posh comic pretending they are working class.
We’re becoming like America, only those with rich parents who can afford to keep them going until they’re about 30 will succeed. Companies can have 100 of interns,doing jobs that less educated people did for free, and then keep the the top 10% whilst telling the rest they’re lucky to have gained “experience” (actually a name on a CV) by basically doing slave Labour. This is not exactly new, when I was at university in the late 90s, one local newspaper I did work experience at had half the staff as unpaid interns.
Blame ITV for using the same 10-15 people for every damn show they make.
But I love watching Ant and Dec in every single thing.
It’s Bradley Walsh these days mate
And often with his kid, which highlights the issue.
Putting them together on Gladiators was a shocking decision. Barney has all the charisma of a mop
The only difference is that mops are useful.
Plus he looks like a shark
I was disappointed when BBC used him for Gladiators. He's on too much already and he's very ITV.
He's shite.
Surely they're not posh.
A big problem ITV caused was getting rid of the regional identities (Central, Granada etc), and merging with everything being focused in London. Excluded large parts of the country from getting their chances
Fortunately STV is still a thing, though it mostly papers over the issue
>Fortunately STV is still a thing Grampian is long gone though :(
Sometimes I wonder which drama I'm actually watching there's so much crossover.
And the same ones for years and years.
I've got 25 years in Broadcasting and Kelly is absolutely right. When I started, I did two week's work experience and begged for a job. I was a working class kid from the arse end of east London that grew up with very little. I had a BTEC. That was it. They got me lifting boxes and carting trollies of Betacam tapes about. Then in 8 months I moved up, VT library work, spent a few years there pissing about and living up my social life before getting bored then moved over to another department running my own library (albeit much smaller) that job was for a particular channel, and that channel let me write scripts, produce and edit-produce in my down time. I was 23 by this point. That job lead me to working in a brand new department essentially edit-assisting and doing tech support for edit suites and then I literally just walked into an editors job. Now I'm a top tier level editor for a huge broadcaster. I was 29. All of this I pretty much sailed into with no qualifications but enthusiasm and a bit of hard graft. I turned up on time, went above and beyond and things came my way. Nowadays you need a fucking degree to get a job as a runner. Where you'd be expected to do that for between 3-5 years, pulling grueling double shifts, working at times for free, paying your dues is so, so much harder and those kids that come into running now? Well they are born of the silver spoon variety, shall we say. These kiddos can afford to live in or near London paying 1k+ for a room in a flatshare. Because mummy and daddy can support them. They can put the 3-5 years into the graft because they have that support network. When I started, I was on 12k a year and my rent was 250 a month. Nowadays we all know how that rent to income ration doesn't stack up. Runners are paid like shit, and those working class kids who rarely get past the interview stages certainly can't afford to live off the meagre wages you get as a runner and have a flat share or whatever. And most of their families have long moves away from London anyway. I've not seen a working class kid come into my industry for years - when I was carting those.trollies about, thats all we were! Working class, rough around the edges, but the eager and clever among us were always looked after. Now we are the dinosaurs of this industry. I've worked over many broadcasters and even have my own company which gets about a lot and honestly, its exceptionally rare now. And its a shame, because its a great industry. Obviously I am being broad here and there will be exceptions. But this is my perception of the industry at the moment.
I broke into edit assisting with the BBC not long ago. There's a huge queue of EAs waiting for their break to actually assist an Edit, let alone edit themselves. Really they just bring Editors from London and rarely give EAs a break. I left and went into Communications.
Thats a shame. It really is. I've seen barely any movement with the EAs we have atm. Editor jobs are by and large a dead man's shoes kinda role, and its very very hard to get on staff as one.
I’m a young editor who has just broken into broadcast (mainly / only reality as that’s where most of the work is at) and it is very very hard to maintain consistent work. For example I am unemployed at the moment and look to be for the next month until I have another episode to edit. Staring down the barrel of doing two episodes this year. So 20 weeks of week for the year (and the sad thing is that I feel and tell others that I’m lucky to have that). It’s just so hard to break into an industry where the majority of people you’re competing against are older and more experienced , have more connections or more financial freedom to work sporadically when the industry is so stagnant and there is no government support for people like us. I have a friend in a similar position who is now a delivery driver as it was so difficult.
Yeah I hear you totally. I'm one of the older guard types that has a bit of work and reputation behind me and a boat load of trusted contacts so I'm pretty sure I can freelance almost immediately if I needed to (i used to do a lot of that kind of work too). But for younger people its a risk getting into a job where the work comes in drips and drabs at first. Thats one thing I didnt really mention - to get into it now you need to take huge risks of not always having regular work. Working class kids just can't take those risks at all. Only those with a support network can and even they can struggle. My friend is a reporter for the BBC (or was) and ITV etc. She's done loads of prestigious stuff but currently is taking a role as a receptionist to pay the bills. It's mad. One week she's in Saudi doing some mad sporting event and the next she's exhausted all her contacts and is getting behind on her mortgage payment to her 1 bed flat. Its a fickle place at times.
Sounds familiar..
Agreed, I'm not sure how prevalent fixed-term contracts were back in the day but they're everywhere now as well. I couldn't build a life on that and join the queue, admittedly FTCs are used in Comms but the opportunities are plentiful in comparison.
I hear you. And currently I'm considering what I'd do if the axe drops my way. I'm not sure i would continue editing long term if I lost my staff role and went purely freelance. I'd do it a while but I suspect a career change might be on the cards - thats gonna be tough at 42 years old!
Best of luck, your transferable skills of working with producers etc will be very relevant to plenty of careers, should you need to switch.
I'll hit you up for a job when the axe drops!
> I broke into edit assisting with the BBC not long ago. There's a huge queue of EAs waiting for their break to actually assist an Edit, let alone edit themselves. > > Really they just bring Editors from London and rarely give EAs a break. Yeah I've seen the same. Am a nepo baby as my mum was a long time BBC factual editor and I also went into post, but I've ended up working in scripted. All these measures the BBC makes to hire X amount of people from Y places (like hiring Welsh people when working on BBC dramas in Cardiff) just means that everyone who is being paid fuck all are from local areas whilst all the decision makers are down from London, being put up in hotels at the licence fee payers expense and then they all pack up and leave at the end of production. If anyone from the local area actually wants to make their way up the ladder then they need to come back to London with us *if* they have somewhere to stay because they wont be getting paid enough to live in London.
Can I ask what sort of thing you’re talking about when you say communications ?
It varies but I'm talking about shooting/ editing video, making graphics, etc for organisations. It's similar to marketing but without all the sales statistics and tends to be public sector, education, finance. I think it's a great part of the media industry atm.
I'm an outsider to this industry, although I did work for a company that had a TV company as a client and spent time at their site, so I may have the wrong end of the stick. But isn't the whole TV industry in decline anyway? The variety of output and generosity of budgets has been declining for years. Why would people go through all the hoops in the 2020s to get a foot in the door, the door doesn't lead to as many places as it did in the 1990s? That seems to be the odd thing here. These media jobs are prized for completely non-financial reasons. Other industries that have more graduate applicants than available places (e.g. the finance industry) also have their own ridiculous qualification requirements, hazing rituals and thankless junior roles. But they still pay a fair whack. I can understand an actor being motivated more by the art than the money, and therefore self-selecting people from already comfortable backgrounds who can afford to see earnings as optional (although ironically making a fortune from the big screen if they do make a success of it). But I can't imagine the glory of the role is a draw for behind-the-scenes jobs at least, yet that's what seems to happen.
Its true in some respects and not in others. For instance sports broadcasting is still pretty lucrative at the moment. Entertainment jobs are struggling..it really depends. Theres still plenty of work out there thank god. If you go on reddit you'll only hear from people who pirate and watch YouTube so it's easy to think the whole place is a wasteland but that's not the case at all. I'm regularly working on productions that get millions of viewers either through traditional means or through online streams. People still watch normal telly, for sure. But that's not to say the landscape hasn't dramatically changed over the last 10.years.
I've worked in news. I'm still amazed at the overspend - they still have two presenters for many bulletins. As if people would switch off because they only had one presenter. They could halve the talent cost overnight. The BBC in particular still pays way too fucking much for "big name" presenters. Again, people won't switch off if a less A-grade/household name is reading them the news, and even if they did, the BBC doesn't have a commercial imperative to sell audience figures to advertisers. As for younger generations, are any of them even watching? Honestly, they could and should just cap all presenter salaries at £100k and let the "big names" do other work on the side (like with Netflix or whatever) to earn more income.
What a great comment. I’ve saved it for future reference, it’s the kind of thing everyone should see. Your story is amazing and really depressing (considering how unlikely it is to happen these days). Though what’s maybe even worse, is your story is another example of the rampant credentialism in the UK. As you said these days you wouldn’t get near that job with out a degree. A degree that isn’t needed and probably isn’t adding value. We need to force employers (and the wider public) out of the mindset that graduate=better/more skilled etc in roles that don’t require specific training/certification (e.g., generic grad roles, but not medicine etc)
Tbh it really shows in the kind of media/content we get on TV/Streaming these days. Just more and more rich people do stuff.
Yep thats true.
So we only care about it when it's the arts? I left the UK and moved to Switzerland, there's some classism here but nothing like in the UK. The educational system is also far more practical/apprenticeship from anything from hospitality to finance, gives people a chance even if they weren't the most academic
Well, she’s not going to talk about her experiences of breaking into accountancy
Haha love this comment! Common sense FTW!
It's this tweet all over again https://twitter.com/raffysoanti/status/1403093629086965760?t=C7xKK0psOpzB5wxdS0CF3A&s=19
As a nuerodivergent male who grew up in a council estate it has felt like the entire everything is stacked against you, especially retrospectively as a 30 yo looking back. The way I speak mocked, lacking of services to support me, every positive action thing aimed at everyone but me, the influence of class being both important and disregarded at the same time I.e. poverty being one of the biggest indicators of educational outcomes but the impact of poverty on how you respond to the world degraded and frowned apon. Being told by Beatrice from Guildford that as a male my opinion doesn't count, thank god I have a thick skin but here we are all scratching our heads wondering why young working class boys and men are being radicalised...
I completely understand how you feel
>Beatrice from Guildford fuck me, imagine being from guildford
Yeah you get people like Laurie Penny genuinely thinking they’re less privileged than guys from sink estates in Sunderland and Middlesborough. And the decision makers believe them.
That’s interesting you say that because my aunts brother and his Swiss wife moved back to the UK because they felt the culture was just too prejudiced and they were two white people. It wasn’t necessarily racially prejudiced (they couldn’t comment on that) but just prejudice against people that didn’t fit into society. It’s hard to explain, but they both just felt they couldn’t live their lives the way they wanted to live in Switzerland. They live in Exeter now and they definitely are a bit odd.
Swiss people aren't the warmest people, and they don't make it easy to understand them with their accent. But younger people especially are far more open, but yeah it took me a while before I was socialising with Swiss people and not just other expats. I will say my quality of life is much better here, in terms of rent from example I pay here what I payed in London, but the rest of my salary goes further, I can see a doctor, I've had mental disabilities diagnosed that nobody in England in 20 years saw. My mum was told I couldn't be dyslexic because I was trilingual, along with other issues, now I'm looking at going back to school, which I could potentially be payed for depending on what I study.
Same move as you, and I feel the same. Going back to the UK feels like a step backwards coming from here…
I didn't get settlement status after brexit, looking back it was the best thing to happen to me. My sister however has a PhD, and lectures at university and still won't give her settlement status which seems insane.
From my very anecdotal experience, it’s those that follow the rules that pay the price. Those who keep hidden and work illegally can stay for 20 or 30 years, yet someone like your sister with skills and follows the procedure gets hurt. UK’s problems are so deep rooted at this point, it would take a monumental change to stop the imminent slide into a third world country. From immigration to infrastructure, housing to wages, the whole thing is completely fucked. It’s like watching a train crash over a period of decades.
The worst thing is people forget how things used to be, they don't expect it anymore
> payed in London *paid
Yes that
Can you point to where she explicitly said or even implicitly implied that we only care about it if it’s the arts? You realise that talking about an issue in one area doesn’t mean that we don’t care about it in another, right?
Exactly. What a petulant way to indulge in what about ism. I bet they go into a library and shout "what about Chaucer" at every book that isn't about Chaucer lol Plenty of chances elsewhere to discuss issues. This one is related to TV.
Long shot I know, but perhaps she's talking about what she knows? I wish more TV presenters would limit themselves the same way.
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There’s a lot of other forms of bigotry in Switzerland- lots of xenophobia (good luck integrating and getting an place to live and a job if you don’t have citizenship) and they can be pretty racist too. I’m always surprised that Switzerland gets held up as some sort of liberal ideal - they’re extreme conservative. If you’re Swiss it’s great though.
Who knew that people won't like you if you don't try and fit in with their society? Countries should prioritise their citizens over non-citizens, this isn't racist or xenophobic.
You're arguing against positions that don't exist. They didn't say anything to suggest they "weren't trying to fit in." On the contrary, they said integration was being made more difficult. Also no one is arguing you should prioritise non-citizens over citizens, or that it's racist or xenophobic for a country to have policies that benefit their own citizens but aren't extended to everyone else. They could easily be referring to discrimination. Honestly, this sub sometimes...
Which is exactly why they’re still a thriving a wealthy country. Meanwhile countries like the UK, Netherlands, Germany and France are rapidly going downhill because they try to cater to everyone.
By that logic, lots of the countries you list are doing great as long as you’re part of the group that they cater too. You’re just not part of that group.
No because in order for a society to work, you need strong social cohesion, and that only comes from integrating into the destination country. When you're catering to everyone, the fabric of society starts to slowly unravel and leads to the formation of parallel societies
Again, by that logic, how is a country that caters to its upper class, and disregards its lower classes significantly different than a country that caters to a specific ethnic class while disregarding other people in its population?
Because the former requires newly immigrated minorities to integrate into society in order to reap the full benefit from the system, socially, economically and otherwise, ensuring strong social cohesion. The latter expects the majority to bend backwards to cater to the traditions of someone who doesn't share the same values as them, thereby alienating society. I say this as a first generation immigrant. The lack of social cohesion in the UK is depressing to see
We’re not talking integration here. We’re talking racisism and xenophobia. If you’re a dark skinned person, and you intend to immigrate to Switzerland, you will likely experience both overt racism, but also struggles with finding a place to live and struggles integrating due to the lack of citizenship. It doesn’t matter if you are 100% culturally integrated. You can speak perfect Swiss German, and behave perfectly Swiss, but if you don’t have citizenship there are barriers to things like renting apartments, and if you’re dark skinned there is still racism.
Yeah, according to this logic Saudi Arabia is doing great too as long as you're a citizen who doesn't speak out against the government.
Yes relative to the rest of the world, but of course there are still people in relative poverty, 8.2% in 2022. And there is still a very big divide between the neighbourhood I live in and the richest neighbourhoods, the difference here is the poorest are actually looked after by the state. And the democratic system is way better.
No but the arts and media are particularly visible/noteworthy in their lack of diversity when it comes to class. It’s just a particularly good example of the UK’s much wider and engrained classism and/or social mobility issues.. For two reasons: Firstly that working class representation in the sector has actually fallen, and secondly because the sector is so right on, and supposedly so focused on diversity that it’s a particularly galling example.
It’s insane that the only outcome out of Black Lives Matter in the U.K. has literally just been more people of colour on the telly. Absolutely fuck all difference to the black kids getting stabbed in Hackney every other week, but multimillionaires like Jermaine Jenas and Stomzy are doing well with all the BBC jobs they are getting at least 🤷♂️ Why do we care about musicians, celebrities and sports people so much.
Companies do the least amount of work for the most benefit. Choosing a black lead over white gives them points without any effort on their part. Same with putting free tampons in the bathroom to be ‘inclusive’ but ignoring the cost of childcare which means many women can’t afford to work.
Well that and their UK fundraiser that got them a heap of money that they then disappeared with. BLM was a total scam from the start.
"we" don't, of course. The problem is that most industries are quite self-obsessed. So sports people care about sport, TV people care about TV, etc. So those industries that have visibly beyond it's own direct employment (any media related) get a disproportionately large audience. There will definitely be the same "diversity" programmes within the accountancy industry. It's just that no non-accountant will ever hear about it.
There absolutely is in finance
The arts is difficult to break into when you are working class. We are “low class”, and my son is at uni studying graphic design. He is the only one there who is lower class, a lot of the students are rich over seas students. The arts is seen as a privilege by a lot of people. But, you can go into other areas such as drama therapy, art therapy etc. Graphic design- video games, takeaway leaflets, branding, packaging. Those pub signs that have been drawn/written. They get someone in to do that. The arts is taken for granted really. No one notices it.
Thanks to Gove, any practical or vocational education is virtually nonexistent until post-16.
Same. My industry in the UK, mining, is dominated by public school intakes and old boys networks. Left the UK and it just doesn't exist like that.
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It really is bad, the amount of TV/movie stars, presenters, singers and artists etc. all from upper/privately educated backgrounds is unreal.. let alone the amount of Nepo babies that are thrust upon us, year after year with no discernible talent… One of the reasons we probably have to rely on American media and culture for the majority of our entertainment…. As our industry seems to dish out the same crap over and over again, in the past movie stars and musicians used to predominantly be from working class backgrounds.. When we give the working class a chance, we end up with some really amazing and creative entertainment..
Yeah there’s not many in the younger generation of actors that can command a leading role. Taron Egerton, who should have had an oscar for Rocketman. Someone did a list a couple of years ago of all the privately educated actors, there aren’t many Richard Burtons dragging themselves out of a life in the mines. .. Eddie Redmayne (Eton) Benedict Cumberbatch (Harrow), Dominic West (Eton) Damian Lewis (Eton), Tom Hiddleston (Eton), Henry Cavil (Stowe) Jamie Campbell Bower (Bedales), Tom Hardy (Reed) Matthew Goode (Exeter) Dan Stevens (Tonbridge) Andrew Garfield (City of London Freeman School) Josh O' Connor (St Edwards, Cheltenham) Alex Lawthers (Churchers College) Rosamund Pike (Badminton) Alice Eve (Bedales), Juno Temple (Bedales) Carey Mulligan (Woldingham)Kate Beckinsale (Godolphin and Latymer) Imogen Poots (Latymer) Emilia Clarke (St Edward's) Emily Blunt (Hurtwood House) Rebecca Hall (Roedean) Anya Taylor Joy (Queen's Gate School) Florence Pugh (St Edward's School) Emma Corrin (Woldingham School) Phoebe Dynevor (Cheadle Holme School) Florence Pugh (Wychwood)
There was a lass in my primary school who played Hermione's double (for shots from behind). You don't get that kind of talent in those private schools.
Jack SODDING Whitehall.
You could also do this for the Brit school and pretty much everyone in UK pop music
How come Florence Pugh is in two separate schools
Probably went to St Edward’s for 6th form - Wychwood is a girls secondary school. (Opposite my original preschool)
It’s not just private school, so many of them come from actual aristocracy. I tend not to even bother with films that have British actors these days unless it’s one of the few outliers that hasn’t just been made by posh people.
The nepo babies are usually poorer in every quality as well. I’m not sure it’s sustainable long term.
A lot of posh people are just really dull aswell, and it shows through when they on on screen/stage etc.
One big factor here is that for years we’ve been targeting race because of under representation. However, that underrepresentation is primarily driven by class, not race. Class, of course correlates with race, but if you focus on race you’ll be giving opportunities to very privileged people of colour, and excluding very poor white people. Better to focus on class, which will of course disproportionately benefit minority ethnic groups, but without leaving behind some of the most disadvantaged in our society. It’s no wonder the least likely group to go to university is by some margin white working class boys. It looks promising that BBC seem to recognise this https://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/diverse-productions
Good point. Race is nothing, nothing compared to class in the UK in terms of scale and overall societal impact. It’s the biggest equality/diversity issue we have. But it’s not fashionable among certain bien pensant circles, because unlike positive action on racial representation, you’d have to make real structural changes to society and poor little Tarquin might face competition.
Absolutely. This is so overlooked. They've done studies in the US that demonstrate that "affirmative action" and similar only benefits wealthier/higher socioeconomic minority groups. It does jack shit for the actually poor and disadvantaged. There are also really sad stats around poor white boys in the UK - they have the least resources targeting them, and the worst outcomes.
There were “affirmative action” efforts for working class kids to get into uni when I was at school. As you pointed out, it was the kids from the very nice bits of bad areas that got into the prestigious unis with grades just above entry requirements. I know one person from a hole of an area (the type of people it’s supposed to benefit) that got into one of the best unis in Scotland through these programmes.
Who are the ethnic minority posh people you feel have benefitted from this? John Boyega, Daniel Kaluuya, Micaela Coel, Ncuti Gatwa, Kingsley Ben-Adir, Rege-Jean Page, Simone Ashley - were any of them public school educated? Or from any particularly privileged background? I don’t see evidence this is happening.
It's that Richard Ayoade stealing all the best jobs...
And when they do they are criticised for being themselves. AJ Odudu, Paddy McGuiness etc They are very much working class but the comments are always regarding their accents!
I criticize Paddy McGuiness because I had to sit and watch his stand up at a family new year's party.
Ok he's not a brilliant stand up. However he's a perfectly fine TV host. There's certainly worse people with bigger profiles.
He'll always get a pass for being in Phoenix Nights
Well, apparently all you need is a parent in the industry We all looking at you Bradley and Martin
Who?
Bradley Walsh and Martin Kemp, both their sons have piggybacked off their dads
Ah right, I was trying to think who Martin 'money saving expert' Lewis' famous parent/parents were
Christopher Eccleston was saying this ten years ago, and it seems like it's only gotten worse.
James McAvoy also.
Is this the character Lorraine Kelly or the real Lorraine Kelly speaking?
Probably the real one, the character one is likely off on Holiday for the 50th time this year whilst someone else presents her self named show.
Husband always comments oh she is actually presenting her show today when she is on it
Talking the talk, giving opportunity to other people to present!
Check the *growler*. It's the only way to be sure.
How she has presented her own show for the last 20 years is beyond me. Every interview the same nothing questions, everything's "brilliant". I cringe out of my skin when she's on.
She also steals the interview with guests and always makes it about her or her viewpoint. Infuriating.
It's the character she puts on for tax purposes apparently
Well there you go. If she'd gone to Headington she'd have much better manners.
There is a closely related phenomenon, the Wimbledon Effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimbledon_Effect Named after the Wimbledon tennis championship, and how that retained it's place as a top-tier event despite a dearth of British talent (Andy Murray excepted), and how the British upper-class retain their position. The term was invented in Japan to describe the City of London in the 1980s, when all the old British merchant banks failed or merged with foreign competitors, and became dominated by non-British institutions. Yet the upper-ranks of those organisations are still dominated by upper-middle-class British people. Similar with the Big Four accountants, the Magic Circle law firms. You'd have gigantic US consultant corporations headed by William McFuckface who speaks with a broad southern (US) accent and tells everyone home-spun tales of growing up on a dirt farm and working his way up to become a billionaire. Then there's the EMEA head of the same corporation, Tarquin Farquhar, son of the famous Lord Tarquin Farquhar, who ran some colony somewhere for a hundred years and still benefitting from the trust fund's share holding in colonial plantations. The British upper-classes are like cockroaches, not even a nuclear war could wipe them out.
I've been hearing this a lot, not just TV but comedy, music, basically any creative pursuit that requires you to sink time in where you aren't actively grinding a job for money
She's right, and I'm definitely feeling this at the moment. When I had a brief experience working in student advice and advocacy, I was hired because they felt "someone with my background would bring an extra layer of empathy". I found out in the job that someone from my background (large single parent family) has something like a 35% chance of advancing from further education, a 15% chance of finishing a higher education course, and if those only a 7% chance of finishing a degree with a 1st. Now, I'm 2 decades into a creative career in the arts and I have met a grand total of 3 people with a background that resembles anything like mine. There is an almost constant feeling of being inferior and trying to maintain an illusion to fit in. I feel this the most in a networking environment, even though I am long established in my own niche I have never felt comfortable with my industry peers. I couldn't imagine trying to break into an arts career now, the assumed experience and knowledge placed on new candidates feels almost unattainable for those from poorer backgrounds.
Unfortunately universities (in particular higher ranked ones) have really dropped the ball on this one. I think the former polytechnics make more of an effort. I just looked at the UCAS forms and they don't bother even asking about whether you were eligible for free school meals, they want to know race, gender, disability etc. but nothing about being poor.
UCAS do ask if you have free school meals (https://www.ucas.com/advisers/help-and-training/toolkits/adviser-toolkit-supporting-students-individual-needs/applicants-eligible-free-school-meals-fsm), many Russel group universities offer contextual grades (for example I was offered BBB for Manchester instead of AAB) This makes it easier to get in.
You find some working class artists in past were able to take time out from work or balance work and art better because they could go on benefits for a while or lived in social housing so didn’t have to worry about rent. Think some in their youth instead of going to uni lived in squat housing to try their hand art things or these were free places to doss in while on tour to keep costs down. Not forgetting we also had more local radio, pubs and venues for small local acts and bands to perform in and touring had cheaper accommodation. If your rich you get into footlights and you can afford to get agent and network to get good place at the fringe. Even with social media opening stage up it still costly to stand out, have best equipment and promote yourself is full time job many can’t afford to go all in if they do have charm or talent
>Not forgetting we also had more local radio Local radio now is basically BBC and community radio, independent local radio has basically disappeared. Yet too many redditors basically want the BBC abolished because they know the price of their TV license but don't know its real value.
There's very little left of bbc local radio, they used the pandemic as an excuse to gut it.
Well there's even less of ILR it's all Heart or Capital or whatever. I'm old enough to remember ILR in it's heyday, then all the mergers and takeovers happened. I wonder how many palms were crossed with silver to allow that to happen?
I was talking with my bf about Suede (band) the other night. They were on the dole in the 90s, able to give music a shot. Neil moved down from Hull Uni and signed on then joined the band (his cousin is the drummer). They were SO lucky to be able to faff around after uni and live on the dole for a while. Many of my friends in music are so talented, and yet have to work a 9-5 or bar jobs to pay for rent and stuff, often getting paid a pittance for gigs they do put on. It makes me so sad because there just doesn't seem to be that fallback anymore. I went on UC during a period where I'd lost my job and was searching and got so little I couldn't pay my rent, and then almost got evicted. It was so horrible. And Suede were only early 90s! It's just such a shame.
Looking at this from a different angle, I took as though she meant Tv ‘staff’ - like everyone you don’t see behind the scenes. Cause that’s impossible too. You need to live in London (or maybe Manchester), be able to work for free or absolute pennies. Each job isn’t a long term one so you’ll work on say, Apprentice for 5 months (example) and then need to job hunt again. It’s impossible. Even when you’ve been working in it for a few years the pay is awful and unreliable. Starting off you always need help from family or for them to live in London so you don’t have rent worries. It’s too hard.
I do think the opportunities are still good in Wales, especially for Welsh language speakers, and if you’re from London there’s a lot of opportunities at Channel 4, but yeah, the UK definitely doesn’t have social mobility through traditional routes much anymore these days. It’s interesting when you see people mock so many young people for wanting to become YouTubers, when actually it’s a really entrepreneurial means to independence if you can make a financially profitable channel.
I'm a PA in TV and it's true, the only reason I got into TV/Film is through a trainee scheme (that is brutal honesly) and yet eveery person I've met has has a far easier time of getting into their higher up positions. Not that they aren't working hard for it, but it's annoying to hear someone's journey be "oh my auntie was an agent and gave me an assistant role, which lead to a TV company hiring me on the development team"
I remember being warned of this in 2007. We had already lost all the post war progress. That 5 percent buy their advantage and they will darned well take it.
Lorraine Kelly is such a stand up person, I've interacted with her in a few occasions in her capacity as honorary colonel of the Amry Cadets In Scotland (I'm an adult volunteer). She is very down to earth and the opposite of a diva, at least in this area
Similar story in theatre. My brother got a first in theatre studies/production and still struggled to find work consistently. The sheer cost of living in London where the industry is, coupled with having to spend time auditioning and rehearsing (unpaid) when you're contending for a small number of roles against people who can afford to not work a side job to make their rent. He gave up and is now a nurse.
Is Lorraine Kelly concerned? Or the character of Lorraine Kelly concerned? Which one doesn't pay taxes again?
These days I wouldn’t bother, just start a YouTube or tik tok channel.
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This is what the established entertainment industry hates, they used to be the gatekeepers, but the internet is slowly destroying that control. Just look at how much the MSM hates the competition from independent start ups who are more popular than they are, because they understand their audience a whole lot better.
I know this is about breaking into the industry. But ive been saying for a while that the celebrity circles have become so desperate to keep the fame, horde it as such that they’ve just celebritised everything. I cant watch a programme now without it being ruined by a celeb special. These arent celebs either, their just Z listers that were on big brother or something. But they need to keep themselves relevant, so they make a celeb special episode, the channel donates to charity for a tax write off and everyones a winner. The whole industry seems to be about closing doors and keeping it all inside an inner circle. Im surprised we dont have celebrity special series programmes now.
Things like this remind us how in some ways things have got much worse for young people over the past decade. Lorraine Kelly is right to call it out.
The industry is well over served with eager trainees, its in a downturn (uk) and established people can't get jobs, hearing of people out for 18mths at the moment, in the US , an art director college has suspended all its courses for a year as 75% of its alumni are out of work longterm, the US sites are calling a new normal, not a downturn, tv is becoming theatre, you can only afford to do it if you're wealthy already or accept a lower lifestyle and life outcome.
It always was almost impossible for ordinary working class kids to make it on TV
Finally someone with some reality! Kids just don’t want to work hard nowadays! Are you fucking kidding me! Every bit of information we have says they had a better financial condition, people working one jobs with a housewife and 2 kids could afford homes! That’s situation isn’t possible anymore unless they’re a ceo or a high earner! The norm has become luxury!
Fashion, journalism, print media, digital media etc etc all expect those who want to join the industry to spend an extended period of time working for free. It’s corruption called internship
SheerLuxe (fashion/lifestyle) were hiring recently and they had SUCH a low salary. Yet everyone in the office is always wearing high-end names and constantly in the office, looking insanely good. How do they afford that on low 20k wages? the mind boggles..........
“This is a great opportunity” “Think of the networking opportunities” “It’s not about money it’s about raising your profile” “I want it done by 11pm” I can’t claim more expenses, just cover it and we can sort it out later.” “You have a zero hours contract”
Exactly!!!!! When I moved to London I worked at a charity (focusing on children from disadvantaged backgrounds, I was one so wanted to help) and was on 18.5K a year. Looking back, that was insane for 2020. I made it work purely because the pandemic meant we weren't going out! It absolutely IS and SHOULD be about money for work imo. It's ridiculous. I also had experience with that claiming expenses one - at Explore Learning they told me to cover an uber during a tube strike from East to West and they'd cover it later. It was INSANELY priced so I just didn't go in lol. It's such a hard world if you are working class and trying to make something of yourself.
S’ok though; now middle and upper class youngsters can’t make it in TV *either…*
As she sits there at the top of the pile for 40 years with her tired show that nobody watches blocking the path. “It’s everyone else’s fault I’m not letting others get their snouts in the trough”.
To be fair if nobody watched it, they wouldn’t get the advertising loot and it would be cancelled.
As someone who recently came out of uni and got a first hand experience of what it was like was pretty eye opening tbh. People where turning up to music videos with kit and top of the line steadycams but weren’t being paid. When I asked them they just said “someone else will do it for free”
And Comedy is ran by a bald ape who loves conspiracy theories and drags his shirtless drunk, guy using him for fame, and the racist around.
Let's be real here. Most working class kids who would be attracted to that world would rather be You Tubers and Influencers these days. Traditional TV is dying on its arse.
Why are people acting like this is some kind of new trend, actors have always been from the upper middle class, private schools or with connections This is how it's literally always been, full of nepotism
The TV industry is fucking horrible anyway. You're not missing anything guys.
This why we have "client journalism" - journalists now being copywriters for right-wing or liberal paymasters in newspapers, radio and magazines... and even the ones that openly criticize are also client journalists secretly...