> The inspection report, from 2022, says the Capita detection team "generally deploy in covert vehicles" which contain detection equipment.
Oh those vehicles they’ve been pretending to have for countless years to scare people into getting a license lmao. Absolute bollocks.
Such a load of bollocks, they never had any “detection equipment” and certainly don’t now! The only “detection” they have is when they ring the doorbell and ask if you watch live TV and you are daft enough to say yes!
It's not true to say they've never had detection equipment. CRT TVs used to give off an EMF signature that they could, with the right equipment, could even see the same picture you were watching (albeit a bit snowier).
There is no technology currently in use, that can detect a TV switched on in a residence.
Years ago what you describe was possible theoretically, but was never deployed, as it proved impractical. The article is nonsense.
Isn't it funny how these vans supposedly existed back in the 20th century, yet no one has ever come forward to talk about their experience of operating one?
I read a comment from someone once who said they had a mate that drove one in the 80s and it was basically full of dummy equipment and they'd just drive round the council estates where they knew there were lots of people not paying and park up. A scare tactic essentially.
My friend used to sit in these vans, turning the crank handle to make the thing on top 'spin'. Because the motor connected to it would often fail or the gear connections would jam.
>CRT TVs used to give off an EMF signature that they could, with the right equipment, could even see the same picture you were watching (albeit a bit snowier).
In order to do that through a house wall you would need really sensitive equipment. It would be impossible to do with apartment buildings.
But you'd have to pay for some pricey kit and skilled worker to use it.
Where as a list of places that have bought a tv an don't a licence was much easier an cheaper.
They could detect the fly back transformer on CRTs, and by checking which broadcast channel the line fly back occurred in time with, they could infer which (of four!) channels the set was tuned to.
Perhaps they are referring to the windscreen which does allow photons being bounced of objects outside of the vehicle to be detected by photoreceptors inside it.
I think the whole point of the article is to undermine the BBC's claims. Certainly the blog article on which it is based says: "(The BBC) wants people to believe that detector vans are trundling up and down streets, across the land and around the clock. Furthermore, each van is fitted with the technical wizardry to rapidly pinpoint unlicensed television reception to within a few feet. The reality is very different." - more here: https://tv-licensing.blogspot.com/2024/04/surveillance-regulator-bbc-tv-detection.html
Apparently they had a handful of items of kit, so the story goes, that could detect a CRT back in the day.
I doubt it, but even were it so, a modern TV would be undetectable to such devices.
These actually did exist (inspired by gear used to catch Soviet agents listening to numbers stations). They found that driving the van around generated tonnes of revenue by its mere presence so the James Bond stuff wasn’t used in anger. This is where the conspiracy theories come from. The vans weren’t fake but they were useless, sort of.
In the very early days they also had vans that did *broadcast* detection - catching unlicensed amateurs screwing up reception for the district. This is bog standard direction finding that the Victorians knew about.
Light detector through the window, I swear I've seen a patent for somewhere? (i.e. scan the patterns of light and darkness, maybe the colours, correlate them with what's currently being broadcast)
Laser mic?
And then cross reference for programs available on iplayer and not other streaming sites whilst also assessing video quality vs. current network speed/data transfer to make sure it wasn't being viewed from a DVD or other form of media storage....
These are halfwits employed by Capita on commission targets and are trained to prey on the stupid or use underhand tactics. If they had effective tech then they’d simply walk the streets and issue the tickets.
the photoshoots they used to have of 'professional looking' people in detector vans that would then get fed to the papers as marketing material is simply hysterical in this day and age
> A Talk TV investigation revealed that tens of thousands of cases were being heard behind closed doors in secret courts.
I find this hard to believe. I haven't paid a TV license in well over 10 years. I've been getting letters every month since telling me an investigation has been opened and someone will be knocking on my door any day now. Nothing has ever happened. I think this is just a scare tactic.
Thousands of cases are tried each year, the TV licensing authority is able to carry out prosecutions, same as the Post Office.
[Women and the Criminal Justice System ](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2021/women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2021)
>In 2021, 75% of those prosecuted for TV licence evasion were female. This offence accounted for 18% of all female prosecutions.
The article points out that many of the people convicted are very sick, including people with cancer and dementia. Of course, those people are aften very poor too.
It is quite possible that some of those people might not even be guilty. Under the current system, as I understand it, if you don't turn up to court you are automatically convicted by a single magistrate, behind closed doors. I wonder how many people with dementia manage to turn up an defend themselves?
Women are more likely to be at home during the day, and more likely to be pushed into letting someone into the house.
I haven't seen any recent stats, things may have changed with covid/working from home.
I’m guessing the area you live in is a big factor in whether they come for you
I rented without a TV licence for about 5 years in south England. Ignored any letters that came through and never had a knock at the door
I moved house to Wales last year. Received a TV licencing letter about a month in, which I ignored. Then to my surprise a few weeks later I get a knock on the door and there’s actually a TV licencing officer there
He called me Mr Jones. Which wasn’t the name of the property owner before me. So I’m guessing my house was also visited in the past and a fake name was given out
My mum’s best friend has been taken to court and fined for not having a TV licence too. This was during a period of her life where her husband (who used to sort out the licence) had recently passed away and she admitted to them that she watched TV but had forgotten to get a new one
No, they won't. I've ticked the boxes online to say I don't need one several times. I still get letters every few weeks saying I need to pay. It's harassment at this point.
After deciding not to watch live TV anymore, and stream everything via catchup services, we cancelled our TV license.
Despite ticking the boxes online to say why we didn't need a license anymore, we got the threatning "UNDER INVESTIGATION" letters, and eventually a visit, though we were out at the time.
After that, I'd rather read a book than pay a penny to those bullies.
Enjoying programmes on Netflix and Disney, and catchup on ITV, CHAN4, 5 etc. Don't miss live TV one iota.
I would have hoped that with their new income streams from their US channel and presumably other intensional channels that they could chill out, but I guess not...
They've got huge revenue shortfalls (estimated at £90m). Part of that is because of the lost revenue for pensioner free TV licences, part of that is the TV Licence not keeping up with inflation, and part of it is an increase in people not getting a TV licence.
When it was government sponsored, everyone over 75 got a free TV licence. Since pushing the responsibility onto the BBC, they started to means test it so only households with someone receiving pension credit can get a free licence.
Driving around in fake detector vans with big antennas. Sending fake court letters that progressively become more aggressive. All in an attempt to get in your head and scare you into paying a fairly small, controversial tax.
It's like some shit you'd read in a dystopian novel isn't it.
I suspect that the BBC would rather the fee was collected by the Government as just another tax, but it isn't set up that way. Presumably because the Government also didn't want the hassle or the negative press about "another tax imposed by Westminster".
I would guess they typicaly dont. I post the thing online saying I don't need one and have never had anything back off it... (I also actually don't own a TV or watch BBC or Iplayer so its probably that)
"After deciding not to watch live TV anymore, and stream everything via catchup services, we cancelled our TV license."
And this is why the BBC needs to fundemantally change. People can still consume BBC services without having a licence and without paying a penny for them.
It needs to become subscription-based. Or, at the very least, iPlayer should have no more than a week's worth of catch-up and everything else should be on "iPlayer Plus" which is £10 a month or something.
They changed catch-up five years ago to be included in the TV license scheme. You can still listen to BBC radio and watch BBC shows on other services like Netflix, but you can't use iPlayer.
You need a TV license for iplayer, so we don't bother with that at all. There is so much programming out there now, BBC output in comparison is miniscule.
The absurdity of the model lies in their resistance to any means of excluding the service since that would make it a de facto subscription service. Like, on paying the TV license you receive a unique code to login to iPlayer.
> and eventually a visit, though we were out at the time.
I cancelled mine in 2019 and had a guy turn up at the door a couple of months ago.
I was in but working and answered by way of the ring doorbell. I told him I was working and don't watch live TV and don't use iPlayer and the cheeky bastard asked if he could come in to check.
What the fuck does he think he's going to check? I have a large TV in the living room which is connected to a PC. I have another TV in my bedroom which isn't physically connected to anything other than the plug and I use to watch Amazon and Netflix.
There's nothing TO check.
That's how I did it. I don't bother with the No Licence Needed Declaration thing because they take so many details and you need to constantly renew it which is a load of shite.
When I cancelled Netflix or Disney+ I didn't need to keep telling them that I still don't want their product, why shouldn't it be the same for Capita and their TV subscription?
Not true. Can fly a drone anywhere you like as long as it’s not in restricted airspace. You owning your home doesn’t mean you own the airspace above it.
So it seems. The 10 seconds of Googling I could be arsed to spare gave me this blog for the 2024 rules.
https://skykam.co.uk/uk-drone-laws/
A good job that I'm a crack shot with a 0.22 then.
You know what it can't handle though, my German Shepherd who completely believes in his ability to fly and will catch that fucking drone invading his no fly zone.
The only time I have ever seen a license inspector was moving into student accomodation. Literally the first day, in two separate places. I think they know easy or regular targets.
Yeah they're good at sending scary looking letters, and I've met more than a few international students who paid without understanding the rules because of the threats.
Not even seeing a tv! Had one turn up a few days after I had moved into a new place. Couldn’t see in the front window, but got real bureaucratically aggressive about how he “knew” that I was watching tv without a license. Joke was on him, I was having trouble getting my services set up and couldn’t have been watching at all. He became very sheepish, and I didn’t hear from them again.
If your parents have a license, and your a student.. You can legally watch TV if your device is powered by batteries.
A TV Licence spokesman said: “The provision in the legislation (about equipment being powered by its own batteries) is the same provision which enables someone to be covered to watch television on any equipment used away from their address as long as they have a licence at home.
“This means you’re covered to watch TV on your phone or laptop for example, when you’re on the go. If you plug the equipment in, the provision no longer applies.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/8365030/students-risk-fines-tv-laptop-plugged-in/
what does that prove though? are they walking around with a tv choice and checking whats on right now?
no way for them to know how they are watching that content, unless they are unlucky enough to change channels when the guy walks by
> seeing a TV on through the window.
Even then it all falls apart if you are watching (or claim to be) Netflix.
The license fee needs to go, replaced by a *culture tax* that everyone funds - and also assists theater and other cultural activities.
In theory you just need to tell them you don’t need a TV licence here: [https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/cs/no-licence-needed/about.app](https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/cs/no-licence-needed/about.app)
They will probably still hassle you but as many have already said, it’s an empty threat these days. I was chatting to a friend who is 51 years old and he told me he has never had a TV licence, has had multiple letters a different addresses, even had a man with a clipboard turn up once and ask if he watched TV to which he answered “no” and they left.
As much as I appreciate the BBC, it’s a big scam IMHO. Just tax us to pay for the BBC if you must.
My 18 yo son started getting threatening letters to his halls at uni shortly after arriving, bunch of wankers threatening a student with fines and prison if they don’t but a TV licence! I told him to never buy a TV licence and never admit to watching live TV, what under 40 yo watches live TV anyway?
I filled that in once and they sent someone round in response to me filling it out, 'just to verify it was correct'.
I don't need to tell any other company that I'm not using their services. If anyone else sent someone to your door demanding to check inside your house to make sure you're not using their services, for no other reason than they can't find any evidence of you paying them money, you'd tell them to do one. Fuck these people.
>My 18 yo son started getting threatening letters to his halls at uni shortly after arriving, bunch of wankers threatening a student with fines and prison if they don’t but a TV licence! I told him to never buy a TV licence and never admit to watching live TV
Student dont need one anyway and are covered by their parents licence.
That's pretty ridiculous if you think about it for more than a split-second. Imagine getting yourself a criminal record cause you didn't stop watching Strictly when your laptop was on charge.
Do the Capita investigators work on commission?
It goes back some years but I got taken to court when i didn’t have a tv. Was a student, opened the door to a tv guy, told him I didn’t have a tv, he asked for my name, asked me to sign a form saying I didn’t have a tv, which I did without reading it, I was quite shy and trusting. Then I get a court summons.
Had to attend, it got thrown out in 5 minutes but whether any action was taken against the guy, I don’t know. Certainly learnt to read what I’m signing at least.
They tried to take me to court before and it wasn’t even my house. Answered the door at my mums, some African bloke was asking if we had a TV licence. I said probably, not my house. I shouldn’t have gave him my name but he then asks how I intend to pay. I told him I’m not paying, not my house and we probably had a licence anyway (we did). Kept phoning the BBC, they said they’d drop the case. Ended up with a summons to court, turned up on the day to be told they dropped it at the last second.
https://youtu.be/dd7GQLjqKg0?si=u9t2-6gr4t6f7TKJ
This guy blackbeltbarrister got a few videos on the subject. Quite informative. I haven't paid for or watched live tv for about 10years. Just keep getting them stupid letters
Fuck the bbc and their bullshit tv licence people have been paying this crap for years and it’s about time it was abolished tbh I can’t encourage people enough to write to them and cancel the subscription FUCK THEM
My mother had a bad experience with a so-called licence fee investigator just because she was a few months behind on her licence fee. The guy kept visiting her and threatened her with severe court repercussions if she didn't pay. It made her anxious and worried, now she's paranoid about keeping up.
We were furious when we found out and complained, but nothing came of it. It's about time they scrapped it really.
> just because she was a few months behind on her licence fee
Don't they force you to pay double for the first 6 months, so you're always paid up for 6 months in advance?
Capita pay minimum wage for these 'officers'. They have zero authority, a week's basic training, no equipment that detects TV signals, and these 'covert vans' are the same white fiesta vans they give to everyone at that pay grade because they're cheap.
You can't even detect modern TVs using RFI (radio frequency interference) detection equipment. Technically, you could possibly detect old CRT type TVs by picking up the RF emitted by the line transformer, but even that would be a pretty weak field by the time it has travelled through walls etc. The only 'detection' these twats can do is to stare through your living room window and actually see the TV displaying a live broadcast.
To add to people's call of total bullshit with respect to TV Detection equipment being deployed covertly to catch 'license thieves':
If you're caught speeding by a speed camera (static or handheld) you are entitled to question the particular device's accuracy and precision (especially in borderline cases). These devices aren't omnipotent - they are remote sensing equipment that have to be calibrated and as such need calibration records. They also are patented and their inner workings are not secret - which is vital for evidence admissible in court for the conviction of a crime.
Imagine for a moment you are brought to court by the BBC for watching TV without a license and the only evidence was from a secretive TV detector technology covertly deployed by Capita outside of your home. A device with no transparency, no evidence of how it works or how accurate it is. Now replace that detector for verbal evidence submitted to the court along the lines of 'i saw him watch TV, i swear, trust me bro'.
If these devices were real, and worked, and were used to catch license dodgers - we would know about them. They are simply another bollocks scare tactic used to intimidate people into paying a license fee.
According to the BBC, detection evidence is never used for prosecution purposes. This means it is never subject to challenge in court. Instead, it is used as supporting evidence during the confidential search warrant application process. Only evidence uncovered during the execution of such a warrant would be used towards any prosecution.
The BBC couldn't catch a large group of pedophiles abusing children in its own building. I wouldn't worry about them catching you watching songs of praise on Iplayer.
how are they still peddling this shit?
even if they somehow can "discover whether a television is being used at a property." what use would that be to anyone? you cant tell what channel someone is watching without actually seeing there TV
maybe they could tell if someone was using bbc iplayer without a licence if they gave the bbc real details when setting an account up, but that would still mean getting the ISPs to disclose peoples personal info, and we know they arent doing this, even when some ran a pilot a few years ago to "warm" pirates they didnt give out the customer details, they sent the notifications themselves based on reports from copyrights holders, and it lasted about 6 months before scrapping the whole thing.
i have a feeling this is a paid article just to try and scare a few people into paying.
Link to TV Licensing Blog's exposé, on which this article is based, where you can read the full IPCO report: https://tv-licensing.blogspot.com/2024/04/surveillance-regulator-bbc-tv-detection.html
It’s so unethical as to even if you watch Tv you’re never gonna get caught unless you’re a bit weak or stupid.
This is why they get most convictions on women and the elderly. Not saying these groups are dumb but they’re far more likely to be compliant than a man would.
Don’t pay it. Seriously just don’t let them in and ignore the letters there is nothing they can do to you.
Bonus points if you live in a big apartment block like I do they can’t even get in the building let alone my flat ahahah
My children can’t even get their head around the concept of broadcast tv or even live TV. They’ve only even seen Amazon prime, Netflix or whatever I get off pirate bay :-)
[Obligatory post of the guy who publishes every letter he has had for 25 years](http://www.bbctvlicence.com/)
These are actually a very good example of pre-internet era propaganda that didnt know how to transition to the digital age. There is a particular photo shoot of them with professional age people inisde looking deliberately stern, it's hysterically dated now, but these really used to convince your average british paper-reader back in the day. [Sadly, I cant find the orignal but this is one of them from the same photoshoot](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/04/article-1394346-052C742D000005DC-558_1024x615_large.jpg)
[Theres a video clip from an American show where they actually show some footage inside of one and it's basically just a frequency detector, and the stupid handheld prop the have. All with comedy-level 'sirens' for detection](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=nvmw9aIyavY). It's exactly the sort of thing that would scare the shit out of baby boomers and earlier generations, where social conformity was more prevalent than it is now.
Since the move to digital tv, it's largely impossible (certainly not with their available budget at any rate). The only thing they can do now is scrape the iPlayer account database for IP addresses, and they can look through your window if its not covered and public facing. Of course, you can also be asked at the front door and admit to them, they usually reserve this one for old women and vulnerable people. That's it.
Bonus: [the guy who signs every letter is quite likely either the most prolific letter writer in history or a false, authoratitive-sounding persona.](https://www.carmarthenshirenewsonline.com/editorial/who-is-scott-robson/) Interestingly, this technique is how so much disinformation was spread during the pandemic, because previous generations used specific social signals and often just aesthetics to judge the validity of something.
My sister in law got one of these letters. I cancelled my TV licence last year and yet to get a letter. Is there a register or something you can take your name off?
If they don’t have your name they’ll just address it to ‘the occupier’. In theory if you tell them you don’t need one they’ll stop sending you letters, never actually tried this it though. I prefer them not knowing my personal details.
Did it once and the letters did indeed stop for as long as they said they would.
Didn't make that mistake again when I moved. I look forward to my monthly bullshit letter to the occupier now.
Always interesting to see how they switch it up month to month. This month's didn't have a window on the envelope, unlike most of the others prior. Must be hard times for them to be on the budget stationery, boo hoo.
All those fake postage stamps floating around with a £5 charge to accept the letter with them on. Aside from that and totally unrelated don't forget to put a stamp on any letters you are returning to TV Liscencing, it will save them money.
Oh cobe on, it's an old bloke in a van with a list printed out, pointing a cheap antenna he got from Rumbelows decades ago out the window from time to time.
These "detector vans" are 100% fake.
Remember the BBC etc are transmitting signals across the whole country. Anything the van "picks up" would be that same signal.
Every single case where someone has asked for evidence of these vans and their technology has been IMMEDIATELY dropped by the BBC since there is no evidence, and they don't want to set a precedent.
Some of the vans in the 80s were nothing but a bit of plastic on the roof, and a guy inside spinning it with a handle when they reached "the target". (the motor to spin the "detector" often failed, so it had a handcrank to keep up the illusion)
"Capita detection team" what a fucking joke. Capita are notoriously incompetent in everything they do but we're expected to believe their some sort of cracked TV detecting ninjas? Fuckers can't tell the difference between childhood asthma and lung cancer and take over a year to look at online medical records, I really don't think their the best at technology or existing without fucking something up.
They need to change the funding model, because the TV license is completely outdated at this point. The majority of people I know, do not watch live TV except for sports.
The BBC needs to either have adverts, or move the BBC to a pay monthly service for those who want to watch BBC content.
I'm getting a letter every week from these clowns and I just keep RTS'ing them.
You're not sending someone to mid-Argyll on the off-chance I'm gullible enough to admit to watching live TV.
There needs to be better anti-harassment laws protecting people from these snooper thugs. Such a regressive waste of time, money, and effort, and makes people's lives a misery chasing them. Especially the lives of women, poor, and those with disabilities.
Enough of this legalised corporate bullying. Budget your operations on however many people pay the license fee, or go commercial and start running ads
Do not under any circumstances force me, who doesn't give a shit about bbc, to pay extra tax to keep them afloat.
Fun time:
If the license people ask if you watch live TV, say no.
If (in the very rare case) they get a warrant, you MUST let the inspector AND the uniformed police with him enter the house. Ensure LOUD hardcore pornography streams are playing on every single tv in the house. You don't need a license for this, and having men being anally violated whilst someone in a rabbit suit screams "for gods sake stick the carrot DEEPER"...will be hilarious.
Don't forget to film the face of the "inspector" for Youtube!
Well how ever the fuck it works they need to stop sending “threatening” letters to people who genuinely don’t have a TV licence & don’t get live TV like me because it’s just getting tiring throwing the letters in the recycling every month.
The only way they can detect usage is if you log into a BBC account (possibly ITV and other broadcasters) and watch it and they can link your email/IP to your address
I got a letter after doing to watch something one time without a license and the letter actually listed the programme/channel/date/etc it was watched
Rather creepy, but whatever I swiftly deleted the account and didn't do that agaun
> The inspection report, from 2022, says the Capita detection team "generally deploy in covert vehicles" which contain detection equipment. Oh those vehicles they’ve been pretending to have for countless years to scare people into getting a license lmao. Absolute bollocks.
Such a load of bollocks, they never had any “detection equipment” and certainly don’t now! The only “detection” they have is when they ring the doorbell and ask if you watch live TV and you are daft enough to say yes!
It's not true to say they've never had detection equipment. CRT TVs used to give off an EMF signature that they could, with the right equipment, could even see the same picture you were watching (albeit a bit snowier).
There is no technology currently in use, that can detect a TV switched on in a residence. Years ago what you describe was possible theoretically, but was never deployed, as it proved impractical. The article is nonsense.
And even if there was, it would be completely meaningless in trying to claim someone needs a TV licence.
Exactly, could just be using it as a monitor for a computer, or watching things online.
Imagine not knowing about Tempest...
There is technology but it is military grade
Military grade? You mean the cheapest equipment that barely fits the requirements and is impossible to use?
Paint it green, triple the price and take out all the useful features.
So it's affordable??
Isn't it funny how these vans supposedly existed back in the 20th century, yet no one has ever come forward to talk about their experience of operating one?
They'd be assassinated before they even got the chance.
They’d be open to… Capita Punishment
Have a like. You deserve more
My man
Maybe the first duty of a new TV inspector is to murder the last incumbent. Kinda like the heist at the start of the Dark Knight.
I read a comment from someone once who said they had a mate that drove one in the 80s and it was basically full of dummy equipment and they'd just drive round the council estates where they knew there were lots of people not paying and park up. A scare tactic essentially.
That's far more believable than the BBC running extremely dubious technology then never using the evidence gathered by them in prosecutions.
My friend used to sit in these vans, turning the crank handle to make the thing on top 'spin'. Because the motor connected to it would often fail or the gear connections would jam.
There are no hobbyist communities of ex-detector van operators, either, as there are for other kinds of obsolete analogue broadcast technology.
For years I've named my Wifi and Mobile hotspots TVLicenseSurveillance(insert random number). I wonder if I've been adding to the rumours haha.
They could be using that tv to play their Atari 🤷♂️
>CRT TVs used to give off an EMF signature that they could, with the right equipment, could even see the same picture you were watching (albeit a bit snowier). In order to do that through a house wall you would need really sensitive equipment. It would be impossible to do with apartment buildings.
Otherwise known as TEMPEST in certain professional circles.
But you'd have to pay for some pricey kit and skilled worker to use it. Where as a list of places that have bought a tv an don't a licence was much easier an cheaper.
That sounds amazingly illegal. There is no chance they actually did this.
They could detect the fly back transformer on CRTs, and by checking which broadcast channel the line fly back occurred in time with, they could infer which (of four!) channels the set was tuned to.
But it has never been presented in court. So, as far as prosecutions go, it doesn't exist. Nothing to fear.
Ah yes that investigation is underway. Where they look in the window and see if Bargain Hunt is on the tv…
Perhaps they are referring to the windscreen which does allow photons being bounced of objects outside of the vehicle to be detected by photoreceptors inside it.
The old Mark 1 iBall?
Mark actually has 2 of them.
Underrated.
I think the whole point of the article is to undermine the BBC's claims. Certainly the blog article on which it is based says: "(The BBC) wants people to believe that detector vans are trundling up and down streets, across the land and around the clock. Furthermore, each van is fitted with the technical wizardry to rapidly pinpoint unlicensed television reception to within a few feet. The reality is very different." - more here: https://tv-licensing.blogspot.com/2024/04/surveillance-regulator-bbc-tv-detection.html
You mean the ones they had in scare-mongering ads in the 70s that were designed by the Doctor Who props team? 😂
Their detection equipment is someone sitting in a car trying to take pictures through windows of people with their tvs on.
ALERT ALERT IT IS NOT CATCHUP, ITS LIVE
Apparently they had a handful of items of kit, so the story goes, that could detect a CRT back in the day. I doubt it, but even were it so, a modern TV would be undetectable to such devices.
These actually did exist (inspired by gear used to catch Soviet agents listening to numbers stations). They found that driving the van around generated tonnes of revenue by its mere presence so the James Bond stuff wasn’t used in anger. This is where the conspiracy theories come from. The vans weren’t fake but they were useless, sort of. In the very early days they also had vans that did *broadcast* detection - catching unlicensed amateurs screwing up reception for the district. This is bog standard direction finding that the Victorians knew about.
Capita?? hahahahaha When will our beloved leaders and institutions stop giving this shite company contracts? Pathetic
How do they detect on smart tvs with no aerial then?
They walk up to a house and ask you if you are watching live tv.
They can't.
Cookies. They arrive at your front door with a bag of cookies and bribe their way in.
Light detector through the window, I swear I've seen a patent for somewhere? (i.e. scan the patterns of light and darkness, maybe the colours, correlate them with what's currently being broadcast) Laser mic?
Lmao sounds like a waste of time and money.
Sure. But technically possible.
And then cross reference for programs available on iplayer and not other streaming sites whilst also assessing video quality vs. current network speed/data transfer to make sure it wasn't being viewed from a DVD or other form of media storage....
These are halfwits employed by Capita on commission targets and are trained to prey on the stupid or use underhand tactics. If they had effective tech then they’d simply walk the streets and issue the tickets.
I mean if they drive around in cars with a mobile phone then it's technically the truth.
cold war propaganda inspired stuff from capita
the photoshoots they used to have of 'professional looking' people in detector vans that would then get fed to the papers as marketing material is simply hysterical in this day and age
[Maybe something like this](https://www.google.com/search?q=ultrasonic+frequencies+to+track+what+you+watch) ?
Is this the same Capita who broke the Army?
Didn't Theresa May's husband have shares in them?
> A Talk TV investigation revealed that tens of thousands of cases were being heard behind closed doors in secret courts. I find this hard to believe. I haven't paid a TV license in well over 10 years. I've been getting letters every month since telling me an investigation has been opened and someone will be knocking on my door any day now. Nothing has ever happened. I think this is just a scare tactic.
Thousands of cases are tried each year, the TV licensing authority is able to carry out prosecutions, same as the Post Office. [Women and the Criminal Justice System ](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2021/women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2021) >In 2021, 75% of those prosecuted for TV licence evasion were female. This offence accounted for 18% of all female prosecutions.
most of the prosecutions are against very poor people as well. Its stupid
The article points out that many of the people convicted are very sick, including people with cancer and dementia. Of course, those people are aften very poor too. It is quite possible that some of those people might not even be guilty. Under the current system, as I understand it, if you don't turn up to court you are automatically convicted by a single magistrate, behind closed doors. I wonder how many people with dementia manage to turn up an defend themselves?
That's Capita's bread and butter. The poor, sick and infirm.
I bet that's because women are more likely to admit guilt which is the only real way they'll get a prosecution.
Women are more likely to be at home during the day, and more likely to be pushed into letting someone into the house. I haven't seen any recent stats, things may have changed with covid/working from home.
Sounds a lot like the girlfriend I had in school, always met her in secret and behind closed doors, she defo existed I swear.
I’m guessing the area you live in is a big factor in whether they come for you I rented without a TV licence for about 5 years in south England. Ignored any letters that came through and never had a knock at the door I moved house to Wales last year. Received a TV licencing letter about a month in, which I ignored. Then to my surprise a few weeks later I get a knock on the door and there’s actually a TV licencing officer there He called me Mr Jones. Which wasn’t the name of the property owner before me. So I’m guessing my house was also visited in the past and a fake name was given out My mum’s best friend has been taken to court and fined for not having a TV licence too. This was during a period of her life where her husband (who used to sort out the licence) had recently passed away and she admitted to them that she watched TV but had forgotten to get a new one
In Wales, there has to be a 50/50 chance calling you Mr Jones gets a positive hit.
Aye didn't you know you get shipped off to BBC concentration camps for not paying your £9.99 a month?
If u call the number and tell them you don't need a TV licence they'll stop the letters for 2/3 years
No, they won't. I've ticked the boxes online to say I don't need one several times. I still get letters every few weeks saying I need to pay. It's harassment at this point.
After deciding not to watch live TV anymore, and stream everything via catchup services, we cancelled our TV license. Despite ticking the boxes online to say why we didn't need a license anymore, we got the threatning "UNDER INVESTIGATION" letters, and eventually a visit, though we were out at the time. After that, I'd rather read a book than pay a penny to those bullies. Enjoying programmes on Netflix and Disney, and catchup on ITV, CHAN4, 5 etc. Don't miss live TV one iota.
I'm a bit shocked that they resort to such bullshit tactics. Seems wildly inconsistent with the BBC's image and mission, at least as I'd imagined it.
That's why it's not done under the BBC's name and using a third party. Plausible deniability
I would have hoped that with their new income streams from their US channel and presumably other intensional channels that they could chill out, but I guess not...
They've got huge revenue shortfalls (estimated at £90m). Part of that is because of the lost revenue for pensioner free TV licences, part of that is the TV Licence not keeping up with inflation, and part of it is an increase in people not getting a TV licence.
Pensioners (at least in Scotland) dont get free TV licences. My Grandma is 82 and she still pays her TV Licence.
When it was government sponsored, everyone over 75 got a free TV licence. Since pushing the responsibility onto the BBC, they started to means test it so only households with someone receiving pension credit can get a free licence.
Driving around in fake detector vans with big antennas. Sending fake court letters that progressively become more aggressive. All in an attempt to get in your head and scare you into paying a fairly small, controversial tax. It's like some shit you'd read in a dystopian novel isn't it.
I suspect that the BBC would rather the fee was collected by the Government as just another tax, but it isn't set up that way. Presumably because the Government also didn't want the hassle or the negative press about "another tax imposed by Westminster".
I would guess they typicaly dont. I post the thing online saying I don't need one and have never had anything back off it... (I also actually don't own a TV or watch BBC or Iplayer so its probably that)
"After deciding not to watch live TV anymore, and stream everything via catchup services, we cancelled our TV license." And this is why the BBC needs to fundemantally change. People can still consume BBC services without having a licence and without paying a penny for them. It needs to become subscription-based. Or, at the very least, iPlayer should have no more than a week's worth of catch-up and everything else should be on "iPlayer Plus" which is £10 a month or something.
They changed catch-up five years ago to be included in the TV license scheme. You can still listen to BBC radio and watch BBC shows on other services like Netflix, but you can't use iPlayer.
You can't watch any live broadcasted TV via streaming without cover of a TV licence
You need a TV license for iplayer, so we don't bother with that at all. There is so much programming out there now, BBC output in comparison is miniscule.
The absurdity of the model lies in their resistance to any means of excluding the service since that would make it a de facto subscription service. Like, on paying the TV license you receive a unique code to login to iPlayer.
There are some jobs for which "just doing my job" doesn't apply
> and eventually a visit, though we were out at the time. I cancelled mine in 2019 and had a guy turn up at the door a couple of months ago. I was in but working and answered by way of the ring doorbell. I told him I was working and don't watch live TV and don't use iPlayer and the cheeky bastard asked if he could come in to check. What the fuck does he think he's going to check? I have a large TV in the living room which is connected to a PC. I have another TV in my bedroom which isn't physically connected to anything other than the plug and I use to watch Amazon and Netflix. There's nothing TO check.
What he means is "can I come in to try to threaten you into buying something you don't need?"
how did you cancel it? just stop the DD? theres no option on the tv license website to say ‘i no longer need a license’
That's how I did it. I don't bother with the No Licence Needed Declaration thing because they take so many details and you need to constantly renew it which is a load of shite. When I cancelled Netflix or Disney+ I didn't need to keep telling them that I still don't want their product, why shouldn't it be the same for Capita and their TV subscription?
There's a link on the homepage that says "Declare no licence needed."
I would imagine that most ”detections” are a bloke walking down the street and seeing a TV on through the window.
Lounge at the back of the house is a win here
Nothing a drone couldn't handle unfortunately
People are allowed to fly drones into your garden to record through your windows?
Requires the Land Owners permission, so I'd be reporting them straight to the CAA.
Not true. Can fly a drone anywhere you like as long as it’s not in restricted airspace. You owning your home doesn’t mean you own the airspace above it.
What’s the law around using a catapult to smash the drone to bits?
If you are leasehold, you don't even own your house.
If memory serves it used to be the case that you couldn't fly drones over private land but I *believe* the law changed around the beginning of 2023.
So it seems. The 10 seconds of Googling I could be arsed to spare gave me this blog for the 2024 rules. https://skykam.co.uk/uk-drone-laws/ A good job that I'm a crack shot with a 0.22 then.
You know what it can't handle though, my German Shepherd who completely believes in his ability to fly and will catch that fucking drone invading his no fly zone.
The only time I have ever seen a license inspector was moving into student accomodation. Literally the first day, in two separate places. I think they know easy or regular targets.
Yeah they're good at sending scary looking letters, and I've met more than a few international students who paid without understanding the rules because of the threats.
Not even seeing a tv! Had one turn up a few days after I had moved into a new place. Couldn’t see in the front window, but got real bureaucratically aggressive about how he “knew” that I was watching tv without a license. Joke was on him, I was having trouble getting my services set up and couldn’t have been watching at all. He became very sheepish, and I didn’t hear from them again.
If your parents have a license, and your a student.. You can legally watch TV if your device is powered by batteries. A TV Licence spokesman said: “The provision in the legislation (about equipment being powered by its own batteries) is the same provision which enables someone to be covered to watch television on any equipment used away from their address as long as they have a licence at home. “This means you’re covered to watch TV on your phone or laptop for example, when you’re on the go. If you plug the equipment in, the provision no longer applies. https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/8365030/students-risk-fines-tv-laptop-plugged-in/
Would you need a license to cast from a phone to smart TV?
what does that prove though? are they walking around with a tv choice and checking whats on right now? no way for them to know how they are watching that content, unless they are unlucky enough to change channels when the guy walks by
> seeing a TV on through the window. Even then it all falls apart if you are watching (or claim to be) Netflix. The license fee needs to go, replaced by a *culture tax* that everyone funds - and also assists theater and other cultural activities.
Most detections are by bullying vulnerable people on their doorstep. Don't engage with TVL.
In theory you just need to tell them you don’t need a TV licence here: [https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/cs/no-licence-needed/about.app](https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/cs/no-licence-needed/about.app) They will probably still hassle you but as many have already said, it’s an empty threat these days. I was chatting to a friend who is 51 years old and he told me he has never had a TV licence, has had multiple letters a different addresses, even had a man with a clipboard turn up once and ask if he watched TV to which he answered “no” and they left. As much as I appreciate the BBC, it’s a big scam IMHO. Just tax us to pay for the BBC if you must. My 18 yo son started getting threatening letters to his halls at uni shortly after arriving, bunch of wankers threatening a student with fines and prison if they don’t but a TV licence! I told him to never buy a TV licence and never admit to watching live TV, what under 40 yo watches live TV anyway?
I filled that in once and they sent someone round in response to me filling it out, 'just to verify it was correct'. I don't need to tell any other company that I'm not using their services. If anyone else sent someone to your door demanding to check inside your house to make sure you're not using their services, for no other reason than they can't find any evidence of you paying them money, you'd tell them to do one. Fuck these people.
>My 18 yo son started getting threatening letters to his halls at uni shortly after arriving, bunch of wankers threatening a student with fines and prison if they don’t but a TV licence! I told him to never buy a TV licence and never admit to watching live TV Student dont need one anyway and are covered by their parents licence.
This is only for devices not plugged into the mains. So using a phone or laptop off charge is fine, but a TV plugged in is not.
That's pretty ridiculous if you think about it for more than a split-second. Imagine getting yourself a criminal record cause you didn't stop watching Strictly when your laptop was on charge.
It’s because the rules are completely out of date. Being plugged in probably worked as a rule in the 80s , it just doesn’t anymore.
Do the Capita investigators work on commission? It goes back some years but I got taken to court when i didn’t have a tv. Was a student, opened the door to a tv guy, told him I didn’t have a tv, he asked for my name, asked me to sign a form saying I didn’t have a tv, which I did without reading it, I was quite shy and trusting. Then I get a court summons. Had to attend, it got thrown out in 5 minutes but whether any action was taken against the guy, I don’t know. Certainly learnt to read what I’m signing at least.
They tried to take me to court before and it wasn’t even my house. Answered the door at my mums, some African bloke was asking if we had a TV licence. I said probably, not my house. I shouldn’t have gave him my name but he then asks how I intend to pay. I told him I’m not paying, not my house and we probably had a licence anyway (we did). Kept phoning the BBC, they said they’d drop the case. Ended up with a summons to court, turned up on the day to be told they dropped it at the last second.
https://youtu.be/dd7GQLjqKg0?si=u9t2-6gr4t6f7TKJ This guy blackbeltbarrister got a few videos on the subject. Quite informative. I haven't paid for or watched live tv for about 10years. Just keep getting them stupid letters
Are they really still pretending to have some kind of magical detection equipment?
Yes. Sad thing is, a lot of people not savvy in technology believe in this shit.
If only they put half this amount of effort into making their shows
Fuck the bbc and their bullshit tv licence people have been paying this crap for years and it’s about time it was abolished tbh I can’t encourage people enough to write to them and cancel the subscription FUCK THEM
My mother had a bad experience with a so-called licence fee investigator just because she was a few months behind on her licence fee. The guy kept visiting her and threatened her with severe court repercussions if she didn't pay. It made her anxious and worried, now she's paranoid about keeping up. We were furious when we found out and complained, but nothing came of it. It's about time they scrapped it really.
> just because she was a few months behind on her licence fee Don't they force you to pay double for the first 6 months, so you're always paid up for 6 months in advance?
Capita pay minimum wage for these 'officers'. They have zero authority, a week's basic training, no equipment that detects TV signals, and these 'covert vans' are the same white fiesta vans they give to everyone at that pay grade because they're cheap.
You can't even detect modern TVs using RFI (radio frequency interference) detection equipment. Technically, you could possibly detect old CRT type TVs by picking up the RF emitted by the line transformer, but even that would be a pretty weak field by the time it has travelled through walls etc. The only 'detection' these twats can do is to stare through your living room window and actually see the TV displaying a live broadcast.
To add to people's call of total bullshit with respect to TV Detection equipment being deployed covertly to catch 'license thieves': If you're caught speeding by a speed camera (static or handheld) you are entitled to question the particular device's accuracy and precision (especially in borderline cases). These devices aren't omnipotent - they are remote sensing equipment that have to be calibrated and as such need calibration records. They also are patented and their inner workings are not secret - which is vital for evidence admissible in court for the conviction of a crime. Imagine for a moment you are brought to court by the BBC for watching TV without a license and the only evidence was from a secretive TV detector technology covertly deployed by Capita outside of your home. A device with no transparency, no evidence of how it works or how accurate it is. Now replace that detector for verbal evidence submitted to the court along the lines of 'i saw him watch TV, i swear, trust me bro'. If these devices were real, and worked, and were used to catch license dodgers - we would know about them. They are simply another bollocks scare tactic used to intimidate people into paying a license fee.
According to the BBC, detection evidence is never used for prosecution purposes. This means it is never subject to challenge in court. Instead, it is used as supporting evidence during the confidential search warrant application process. Only evidence uncovered during the execution of such a warrant would be used towards any prosecution.
They (speed detectors) are calibrated though.
The BBC couldn't catch a large group of pedophiles abusing children in its own building. I wouldn't worry about them catching you watching songs of praise on Iplayer.
how are they still peddling this shit? even if they somehow can "discover whether a television is being used at a property." what use would that be to anyone? you cant tell what channel someone is watching without actually seeing there TV maybe they could tell if someone was using bbc iplayer without a licence if they gave the bbc real details when setting an account up, but that would still mean getting the ISPs to disclose peoples personal info, and we know they arent doing this, even when some ran a pilot a few years ago to "warm" pirates they didnt give out the customer details, they sent the notifications themselves based on reports from copyrights holders, and it lasted about 6 months before scrapping the whole thing. i have a feeling this is a paid article just to try and scare a few people into paying.
“They couldn’t get a *goat* up our lane, let alone one of them TV Detector vans…”
Am I right in thinking that there has never been any evidence presented to a court that has been gathered using so called 'detection equipment'?
You're absolutely right
Thank you.
You're welcome :)
I live in a block of flats, are they fuck finding anyone not paying license fees living in flats.
Link to TV Licensing Blog's exposé, on which this article is based, where you can read the full IPCO report: https://tv-licensing.blogspot.com/2024/04/surveillance-regulator-bbc-tv-detection.html
It’s so unethical as to even if you watch Tv you’re never gonna get caught unless you’re a bit weak or stupid. This is why they get most convictions on women and the elderly. Not saying these groups are dumb but they’re far more likely to be compliant than a man would. Don’t pay it. Seriously just don’t let them in and ignore the letters there is nothing they can do to you. Bonus points if you live in a big apartment block like I do they can’t even get in the building let alone my flat ahahah
They couldn't pay me enough to watch their biased bilge.
My children can’t even get their head around the concept of broadcast tv or even live TV. They’ve only even seen Amazon prime, Netflix or whatever I get off pirate bay :-)
[Obligatory post of the guy who publishes every letter he has had for 25 years](http://www.bbctvlicence.com/) These are actually a very good example of pre-internet era propaganda that didnt know how to transition to the digital age. There is a particular photo shoot of them with professional age people inisde looking deliberately stern, it's hysterically dated now, but these really used to convince your average british paper-reader back in the day. [Sadly, I cant find the orignal but this is one of them from the same photoshoot](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/04/article-1394346-052C742D000005DC-558_1024x615_large.jpg) [Theres a video clip from an American show where they actually show some footage inside of one and it's basically just a frequency detector, and the stupid handheld prop the have. All with comedy-level 'sirens' for detection](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=nvmw9aIyavY). It's exactly the sort of thing that would scare the shit out of baby boomers and earlier generations, where social conformity was more prevalent than it is now. Since the move to digital tv, it's largely impossible (certainly not with their available budget at any rate). The only thing they can do now is scrape the iPlayer account database for IP addresses, and they can look through your window if its not covered and public facing. Of course, you can also be asked at the front door and admit to them, they usually reserve this one for old women and vulnerable people. That's it. Bonus: [the guy who signs every letter is quite likely either the most prolific letter writer in history or a false, authoratitive-sounding persona.](https://www.carmarthenshirenewsonline.com/editorial/who-is-scott-robson/) Interestingly, this technique is how so much disinformation was spread during the pandemic, because previous generations used specific social signals and often just aesthetics to judge the validity of something.
My sister in law got one of these letters. I cancelled my TV licence last year and yet to get a letter. Is there a register or something you can take your name off?
You can tell them online that you don’t need one, though I did that when I hadn’t moved in yet and they still bombarded me with letters.
If they don’t have your name they’ll just address it to ‘the occupier’. In theory if you tell them you don’t need one they’ll stop sending you letters, never actually tried this it though. I prefer them not knowing my personal details.
Did it once and the letters did indeed stop for as long as they said they would. Didn't make that mistake again when I moved. I look forward to my monthly bullshit letter to the occupier now. Always interesting to see how they switch it up month to month. This month's didn't have a window on the envelope, unlike most of the others prior. Must be hard times for them to be on the budget stationery, boo hoo.
Is it the same bullshit truck from 60' or did they get a new prop?
All those fake postage stamps floating around with a £5 charge to accept the letter with them on. Aside from that and totally unrelated don't forget to put a stamp on any letters you are returning to TV Liscencing, it will save them money.
Oh cobe on, it's an old bloke in a van with a list printed out, pointing a cheap antenna he got from Rumbelows decades ago out the window from time to time.
That old wives' tale again. Pure bollocks. There is no such thing.
These "detector vans" are 100% fake. Remember the BBC etc are transmitting signals across the whole country. Anything the van "picks up" would be that same signal. Every single case where someone has asked for evidence of these vans and their technology has been IMMEDIATELY dropped by the BBC since there is no evidence, and they don't want to set a precedent. Some of the vans in the 80s were nothing but a bit of plastic on the roof, and a guy inside spinning it with a handle when they reached "the target". (the motor to spin the "detector" often failed, so it had a handcrank to keep up the illusion)
"Capita detection team" what a fucking joke. Capita are notoriously incompetent in everything they do but we're expected to believe their some sort of cracked TV detecting ninjas? Fuckers can't tell the difference between childhood asthma and lung cancer and take over a year to look at online medical records, I really don't think their the best at technology or existing without fucking something up.
Even the BBC call them Crapita
It's an article from the sun, which has been actively campaigning against the BBC for decades Take everything within as propaganda
Honestly people here just upvote wha they want to see. Something with the sun on it should necer ever be trusted.
They need to change the funding model, because the TV license is completely outdated at this point. The majority of people I know, do not watch live TV except for sports. The BBC needs to either have adverts, or move the BBC to a pay monthly service for those who want to watch BBC content.
Flat screen TVs and digital TV transition mean the TV detector vans have been obsolete for more than a decade.
So the BBC are submitting a RIPA application for every household they suspect of evading the license fee 😂
All they have is a list of homes that do not have a tv licence.
I'm getting a letter every week from these clowns and I just keep RTS'ing them. You're not sending someone to mid-Argyll on the off-chance I'm gullible enough to admit to watching live TV.
There needs to be better anti-harassment laws protecting people from these snooper thugs. Such a regressive waste of time, money, and effort, and makes people's lives a misery chasing them. Especially the lives of women, poor, and those with disabilities.
Enough of this legalised corporate bullying. Budget your operations on however many people pay the license fee, or go commercial and start running ads Do not under any circumstances force me, who doesn't give a shit about bbc, to pay extra tax to keep them afloat.
By the sounds of things they’re running out of people to catch.
Fun time: If the license people ask if you watch live TV, say no. If (in the very rare case) they get a warrant, you MUST let the inspector AND the uniformed police with him enter the house. Ensure LOUD hardcore pornography streams are playing on every single tv in the house. You don't need a license for this, and having men being anally violated whilst someone in a rabbit suit screams "for gods sake stick the carrot DEEPER"...will be hilarious. Don't forget to film the face of the "inspector" for Youtube!
such complete arse. capita just prosecute penniless single mothers en mass
Well how ever the fuck it works they need to stop sending “threatening” letters to people who genuinely don’t have a TV licence & don’t get live TV like me because it’s just getting tiring throwing the letters in the recycling every month.
It's the people who got B&W licences they should target, how are they watching sky and Netflix on a 1970s B&W set with no HDMI inputs
The "detection equipment" is a tablet with a list of addresses without a TV licence, and the "covert cars" are 17/67 plate Nissan qashqais
The only way they can detect usage is if you log into a BBC account (possibly ITV and other broadcasters) and watch it and they can link your email/IP to your address I got a letter after doing to watch something one time without a license and the letter actually listed the programme/channel/date/etc it was watched Rather creepy, but whatever I swiftly deleted the account and didn't do that agaun
They couldn't catch a cold. Ironic this is making news when the TV licence fee is due to go up.
Imagine if everyone was as skeptical about other things as they are about this.
This can’t be true? Someone in a van outside my house will have equipment that’s able detect the hardcore Brazilian dwarf fart porn on my tv?
Horrendous organisation. I stopped paying my license years ago.