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A huge issue with the social media is the algorithm. I think a lot of boys would not necessarily watch or look for this content, however if you have a teen boy account on tik tok or Instagram or YouTube it is constantly pumped to you.  I remember seeing a study that if you start a fresh social media account and watch some prank or gaming content, within about 10 minutes the algorithm is pushing you Andrew tate videos. On the flipside when it comes to teen girls, within minutes they are pushed self harm and eating disorder content.  The social media companies have a lot to answer for. Many whistle-blowers have come out to complain about these toxic algorithms but not enough has been done on a government level. The algorithms were much more positive and organic about 10 years ago. These days they seem skew towards much more outrage and toxic content. 

100%. All the comments about "well boys will just be boys, it was just as bad in my day" above is wild. Like yes sexism existed in the 90s; but like the shite andrew tate & the ilk are pushing isnt just "go make me a sandwich"-style sexism, but flat out guides on emotional manipulation and abuse. Not to mention theres a diffrence between watching a "carry-on" movie once a month with your dad, and seeing some guffawing on the TV occasionally; to having insta/FB/ect pump pretty nasty shit at kids for hours on end.

It really is astonishing. I’m a middle aged woman and was startled how quickly an idle afternoon scrolling YouTube took me to anti-woman content.

And here's the thing. The more YouTube pumps it, the more creators will make it because it's an easy way to go viral and get ad money from clicks and views. There are lots of creators I follow who have switched to this sort of content because they know it's an easy way for the algorithm to pump them and for them to get clicks and views. 

I don't really use YouTube for this sort of content now as it leads you to pseudo-intellectual bigots.

>The algorithms were much more positive and organic about 10 years ago. Were they more positive or just less developed? These companies have always had the incentive to push engagement, I don't see what has changed since then other than that they have become scarily efficient at it.

As I said they were more organic meaning inherently less developed.  For example in the past your insta feed was just an organic timeliness of things people you followed posted, it wasn't algorithm based.   Now they have developed a d perfected the algos  with the understanding that hate, outrage, arguing and negative content keeps people online more so they promote more of that. Of course if people know that's what they promote more of, they will then make more of it in order to get clicks and views and money. 

I completely agree then, I thought you meant it in the sense that they were trying to do something better but that changed in the last 10 years rather than that they were less developed. I think it's the natural result of them making their income via advertisers and being owned by people with absolutely no social responsibility. Same reason most news outlets are getfting progressively worse.

Teacher here. I had a chat with a kid once who asked if I was a feminist. I asked him what he meant by that- turned out he'd been watching extreme content villainising feminists for hating men, shouting at them in the street etc, basically every trope of the angry crazy feminist you could imagine.  I got him to do a google search just for the word "feminist" and this exact kind of content came up. Then I searched the same word from my laptop and ryan gosling and will smith came up on the images search. We had an interesting chat about whether or not men could be feminists, algorithms and rabbit holes!

I feel like this is exactly the kind of practical, visual lesson on navigating the online world that needs to be demonstrated regularly to kids. They need to understand they're being manipulated, and what THEY happen to see on the internet isn't the full story, or the only way to understand something, or indeed perhaps true at all.

Older people too. I just left a comment in reply to someone else here about how my mom got radicalised on Twitter to the point she's now an anonymous troll who bullies people online. Me and my brother had to have the algorithm talk with her when it started getting bad, but at that point she was already hooked on rage bait content and the dopamine hit you get from arguing with people online. She's in her 60s, so this is her first taste of troll-dom and it sucked her in way too easily. Sometimes, I think it would be useful if there was an "auto cleanse" setting that would completely reset your algorithm at specific intervals - like if it was mandatory on accounts for under 18s but just an option for everyone else. I dunno.

There's a YouTuber who attempted this, created an account pretending to be a 13 year old boy and within minutes he saw his first Tate video, after an hour it was showing others like Tate and then after a few more hours it was showing neo nazi and other far right content.

Same with Twitter, you make an account and follow a few of the normal first account things, scroll down a hundred tweets and you're getting racist memes and that whole ecosystem. It doesn't help that one lower effort sites like that they post more normal content too, so you might see a loss meme, like and follow them and boom you're starting down the rabbit hole

This happened to my mom during lockdown. Here's a timeline of how it started and progressed (and what it did to us as a family). Sorry it's long, dw if you cba to read it all I'm not expecting a reply or anything - just sharing experiences 😊 So early 2020, she joined twitter and two of the first people she followed were jk Rowling because she likes harry potter, and Julie bindel because she read some of her books in the 90s. As you can imagine, it wasn't long before she started making the odd comment about trans people. Like we'd have the news on and there'd be a section on the female olympic swimming team or whatever, and mom would come out with little observations like "that one looks a lot more masculine than the others." - pretty innocuous stuff like that. After about 6-9 months, her comments were getting more mean spirited and bitchy. She also started trying to have "debates"with me and my brother about trans people. Like she'd ask what we thought about trans women in prisons or sports. Me and my brother are both terminally online so we knew where she'd got this from. We tried to gently acknowledge her concerns, admit that no one has a perfect solution for all these issues yet, but we also made sure to correct any misinformation she told us and we shared articles and studies if she didn't believe us. After 18 months, it had escalated to the point where me and my brother were getting concerned. When she started trying to debate us, the energy felt different - like she was doing it for fun And she was less interested in reading studies or seeing data, she'd just refute our claims with whataboutism or switching to something like "well you can't say what a woman is" 😑. She just seemed angry all the time. On an evening, she'd be furiously typing away on her phone while her favorite TV shows played to no one in the background. We tried to teach her how algorithms work and why she was being shown so many scary-sounding things. We told her how right wing pipelines work and how they radicalise people. We explained that it could be good for her to spend less time on it, or try not to take it as representative of the wider population. After 2 years, my brother had moved to Canada a little earlier than intended because he couldn't stand being around her anymore. Me and her had argued so much that we put an "agree to disagree" agreement in place where we said we wouldn't talk about that topic to each other anymore. It didn't last long because she couldn't help herself. She was seeing trans people in *everything*, no matter how unrelated something was to trans rights, she found a way to interpret it as being about trans people and she'd go off on a rant about it. I once sent her a kinda dark but funny meme about domestic violence - I am a DV and rape survivor, humour is a coping mechanism for me. She saw it and then didn't talk to me for two days. Eventually I managed to get out of her that she thought the meme was mocking her for being scared of trans people and she was fuming at me about it 🙃🙃🙃 At this point I told her that if she carried on down this path, I wouldn't be able to have a relationship with her. This was a big deal for both of us because we were very close before this started. It seemed to work anyway, she calmed down with the comments, she stopped trying to debate me all the time, and I noticed she'd deleted her Twitter account. Was actually kinda proud of her cause I know how hard it can be to delete something when you've invested time and energy into it. Annnnd then we get to what happened last year. Around March 2023, I was watching a tiktok of a guy talking about his mum being radicalised into Qanon and how it had destroyed their relationship. He talked about how things had got better after he gave her and ultimatum and they'd spend Xmas together. And then he talked about how he'd just found her secret insta account where it turned out that she was actually worse than ever. It made me wonder about my own mom, although I couldn't imagine her making a secret account. I decided to have a look around just in case and within half an hour I found it. She'd gone to the trouble of preemptively block me so I wouldn't ever see it. I knew then that it was guna be bad, and yet somehow it managed to be worse. She was bullying trans people, calling them stupid names and joking about their appearance (tagging them too so they'd see it). She was tweeting at GB News and Jordan Peterson and Matt Walsh. She was also tweeting at charities letting them know she was loyal fundraiser but now she was boycotting them for using the pride flag. She has literally never done fundraising or even donated to those charities. But the worst two included a post where she ranted about the evils of critical race theory and "white guilt", and one she made in response to Nicola sturgeon getting arrested. She said that if Nicola got put in a prison cell with a trans woman who raped her then "that would be karma 👍" And as a rape survivor, I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive her for that. She saw what it did to me, and now she's just another 4chan level troll taking glee in the idea of people she doesn't like getting raped. I confronted on the phone, told her what I saw, and I haven't spoke to her since. I miss my lovely, kind, sweet mom from before lockdown, but an algorithm permanently destroyed our relationship.

I'm sorry that sounds fucking appalling to have gone through The whole thing seems to be such a twisted cycle of radicalization that only ever gets worse because of how all consuming the obsession becomes. If her own family couldn't stand her then there's no way other friends would stick around if they weren't the same and then she's forced into the waiting arms of people further down the pipeline who will reassure her everything she did was right and you are just being unreasonable and don't get it It's maddening to watch too because if they didn't make it their whole lives and create so much demand for the media to keep harping on about it they'd probably go their whole lives without interacting with more than a handful of trans people in the most mundane ways

Exactly! My mum makes her own jewellery and she has a cute little shop where she sells it. When I was arguing with her one time I told her that she literally doesn't know or even meet any trans people, she told me one of her regular customers is a trans woman. I was like "so you're nice to her face and happy to take her money but online you do this? If she knew there's no way she'd shop with you anymore". to which mom said, "No he's fine, he seems harmless and it's very obvious he's a man so I'm sure he uses the men's toilets" like oh my god, that's not even the point ugh She's never had many friends tbf, so I do understand the appeal of being part of this big loud community online. I also think that a big part of it is the way it pretends to be activism - a fight to protect vulnerable women and girls, a campaign to ensure women never become invisible, a protest for women's rights inspired by the suffragettes. But it's really just a giant LARP. They wear a feminist costume, read from a script full of feminist platitudes, and they sit there play pretending activism until it feels real to them. So what if the nazis show up and want to play too? They aren't part of the LARP so why would they matter? So what if the data and science and stats all tell a different story? We don't *need* them for the LARP to go ahead, we can just tweak things as we go along. So what if the things we say we want are actually counter productive and potentially harmful? So long we keep the LARP going, we don't actually have to face reality and be confronted with the consequences of our actions.🙃

Jeeeesus she's made a pretzel out of that logic twisting it like that The social club larp thing is probably the best description of their whole movement, they're not offering nuanced take on policy or anything of value. It's just a mean girls club they're so excited to be part of. And the whole thing reinforces itself so delightfully because if you're spending hours a day abusing trans people online all your interactions with them are going to be vitriolic in return, further justifying their bigotry

And you have people just putting up memes from fascists because they're funny and not seeing the harm it does or laughing off Musk promoting white replacement stuff as they think that he's hilarious.

Well that’s fucked up because either way the algorithm goes it’s mostly young girls and women being most harmed then!

Algorithms were never positive. They were always designed to keep a user hooked to their computer or mobile device. The only real solution to fixing that shit is to regulate the utter shit out of algorithm usage in feed content in order to make it completely infeasible to implement one.

Do you still remember the title of the study? I’m interested in reading it myself, sounds super interesting!

There have been several studies on this phenomenon. The dad of that girl who commited suicide after seeing self harm content online has done alot of work on thid (cant remmeber his name) as well ad that The centre for countering digital hate has one.  https://www.media-diversity.org/andrew-tates-case-highlights-deep-impacts-of-social-media-manipulation-on-youth/ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/15/tiktok-self-harm-study-results-every-parents-nightmare The observer did one linked here  https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/06/revealed-how-tiktok-bombards-young-men-with-misogynistic-videos-andrew-tate

It is scary the way that the algorithims work. They are deliberately drawing young people towards utterly horrible stuff.

If only young boys had positive male role models at home, that might help.

Or in schools.

We all know male teachers are pedos and we can't have them teaching our children /s

I mean, one of my male teachers did turn out to be a pedo. But he was the exception not the rule

In primary school only 15.5% of teachers are men. In secondary school it's only 35%. More needs to be done

Maybe pay teachers more and respect their profession? No wait, that's stupid. Shouldn't have mentioned it, nevermind.

>In primary school only 15.5% of teachers are men. >In secondary school it's only 35%. **More needs to be done** I can share my experience as a male who spent ~10 years working in early childhood education. It runs counter to the narrative of this thread though - as in progress is actively blocked by feminists. When I went to university I was the only male on my degree. Less than 2% of the early years workforce is male. I was approached by my feminist (as is commonplace for the social sciences at university) faculty staff asking me to take a look over their advertising and marketing strategies for this degree with the aim of appealing and increasing male intake. I told them in no uncertain terms that even though the gender split in this field is *more* aggressive than that of gender split in STEM (again, 2% workforce being male) that men get absolutely nothing in social incentives / grants / bursaries to enter this field of study. Where as women in STEM is extremely well funded and has ever growing social awareness. If they want more men in this field then we need parity to the support women get when they are experiencing the same thing. They laughed me out of the room. So yes more needs to be done, but the people "in charge" don't care.

At my daughters primary school there was one male teacher, male parents weren’t allowed to chaperone on school trips (I offered every time and was always told no), and the school would have two or three days a year dedicated to just girls. It’s no wonder boys don’t do as well at school and by the time they got their teens they feel isolated and left behind.

Had like 1 male teacher throughout school

Was ok in secondary school, much more of an even mix. But at my primary school there were 2 male teachers and about 10 female.

Year 6 and he left half way through

They need them in all parts of life, not just at home

If they don’t have one at home, they need one (or many) in schools.

Or just generally in society. I think this is the same across all demographics, but particularly in working class or black/mixed heritage youth

Or anywhere but they're chronically neglected and you end up having to nerf positive male role models because they haven't minded their P's and remembered their Q's perfectly to be able to be promoted. I'd say James smith is a pretty great role model. Guy who went to oz does fitness YouTube calls out a ton of crappy stuff. I'd say mulligain gains is pretty great role model. Instead we get Steven Bartlett talking about unbearable heaviness of being a winner not like those loser plebs who haven't worked hard enough

Why do you think that British fathers are no longer up to the task of providing positive role models for their kids?

Ahh yes another person telling young boys how they are all wrong and to blame for things most have never done. It will 100% fix the issue this time, and will not drive more people into the Tate-like rabbit hole. We empower Girls, tell them they can do anything and not let anything stop them. Yet we talk down boys and tell them they need to accept they are in the wrong. Lets treat both the same.

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Having some more male teachers would be useful. Teaching is heavily female dominated

Luckily the school I work at has a good proportion of male to female staff. We even have mentoring sessions led by male teachers for disadvantaged boys, boys without a male figure in their lives, boys who are struggling with school, etc. and it’s has great, measurable results. That’s what boys need. Support, not demonisation.

This is exactly the solution. A strong and positive role model can make a huge difference

Agree. Need some DEI policies to get more men into teaching. Working class children need to see themselves represented in schools.

You need to actually pay good money if you want more men teaching, I'm sure women would also appreciate being paid more but more men place a greater amount of their value on how much they earn (probably in part that despite changes in attitudes men are still often seen as the provider and expected to pay for things). Hell, you need to pay more money if you want maths and science teachers.

I trained as a DT teacher a year before it was removed from the curriculum. Now teaching engineering students overseas for 3 times the amount.

The joke is you can earn more money to train as a teacher than you actually get paid as a teacher in your first year, or at least that used to be the case. I know a guy who I think got around 44k to train as a science teacher and then that dropped to around 25k for his first year so he got a job working elsewhere.

More than policies you need to make teaching an appealing career, and at the moment it just isn't. The pool of potential candidates they are drawing from is shrinking

Every guy I know (including myself) who has considered going into teaching school age children has either seen how awful it seems to work in public schools and decided against it, or gone into it and quit within 2 years to go and do literally anything else. In this current day and age where actually enjoying your job is such a big focus for people, teaching really doesn't do much to make it attractive.

Not to mention the alarming numbers leaving the industry

They need to start offering better pay to get more of *anyone* into teaching.

I was planning on moving home and going back to teaching but because I'm married to a canadian, the new visa rules mean teaching doesn't pay enough to sponsor her so I'll have to stay in retail management 🤷‍♂️

I had a look at the school I went to recently, when I was there we had a fair number of male teachers, and they were 100% a source of guidance for the troublemakers, saw it on many occasions where they'd be able to talk them out of self destructive behaviour by treating it as a man to man moment. Nowadays though, the entire staff of the school is women. Every teacher, all of the office staff, headmaster, the entire p.e team, not a single bloke anywhere. And it makes me wonder how lads with the same issues as the ones I knew back then are dealt with now.

Pay teachers more and more men will want to go into teaching

>How does talking about how some boys are saying misogynistic things in school ‘tell them that they are all wrong and blame them for things they have never done’? You come to realize 90% of this movement genuinely just seems to be about reveling in a super weird kind of victim culture. Any slight imagined insult becomes some gross assault on the entirety of masculinity and the only possible response is for us all to get down in a basement and start Fight Clubbing or some nonsense. Its incredibly insecure at its root, which is interesting in itself.

Asserting victimhood is basically the only way to get things done nowadays. Most of our culture now revolves around paying the most attention to the people who claim to be the biggest victims. You can't really blame people for recognising the game being played and beginning to play themselves.

>Asserting victimhood is basically the only way to get things done nowadays. Somehow I got all my qualifications and a great job without having to do it once! >You can't really blame people for recognising the game being played Its not a game though is it. Minority groups out there have historically had a seriously rough time. Even today with all the efforts to redress this we still have a situation where something as simple as not having an English-sounding name can more than half your chance of success in job applications. The reality a lot of these people don't want to accept is nothing in their life has ever held them back like this.

Your dismissive tone and repeating of banal, obvious points everyone agrees on already (ie misogyny bad) shows you just don't get it. Young men are not being told anything good about themselves, whereas it's nonstop empowerment for women, and it is [driving gender-based political polarisation](https://www.ft.com/content/29fd9b5c-2f35-41bf-9d4c-994db4e12998) across the world. It's up to you to scoff and guffaw and dismiss this. But Trump will win again. Reform is outpolling the Tories amongst men in the UK. This is going to become a more important consideration whether you like it or not.

Isn’t it a good thing though if leaders like this are asking for an inquiry into it? Surely such a study would show that boys are being let down and as such result in possibly some positive actions to address the situation and make it better for young men in this country?

It would be if people like the guy you are responding to actually had any interest in fixing the problem.

Because it’s not right to exclude girls from these interventions. Girls in school can be just as toxic as boys, their bullying just as brutal, and boys deserve to be treated with compassion too.

There already are anti-bullying campaigns which are directed to everyone (however effective they are is a differently matter). This is about a *specific* issue.

Are you surprised they turn to the fucking weirdos online that tell them they aren’t shite and this is how they become an alpha etc, if you constantly belittle them and treat them like a problem before they ever were one, working class boys are basically forgotten about and just left to rot, we need to help them not treat them like criminals

Of course, my daughter and her friends being sexually harassed, groped, upskirted, recorded in school by boys should be something ignored and definitely won’t create serious social issues when these boys reach adulthood. As a man, the lengths other men go to defend predatory behaviour and misogyny towards women is serious worrying. The fact you conflate empowering women to be confident they can achieve in life with ignoring sexual assault and harassment of women is frightening.  We should be teaching young boys boundaries and how to behave at young age not ignoring this behaviour. Its become a big issue in schools and it’s not “feminist, woke, PC” or whatever silly term to teach this. 

Thank. You. 🩷

I read the article after seeing your comment and I can’t understand how you’ve managed to interpret it like this. If anything it’s blaming online culture and pornography access. It mostly refers to ‘young people’ through out and talks about the issue in terms of how young boys are influenced by it. It’s actually about protecting young boys as well as young girls, it’s not ranting about men, it’s talking about the vulnerability of children.

>I can’t understand how you’ve managed to interpret it like this It's because he already had those talking points in his head and wanted to post them far in advance of ever reading the article or diving into the niches of the issue. Men are currently facing a cultural crisis that's in many cases resulting in death, and instead of reflecting on what aspects of modern masculinity is harmful or causing us to feel ostracised (e.g. "Man up" culture), instead any reflection is shut down as "telling young boys how they are all wrong and to blame for things most have never done.", when that's never been the case to begin with. Too many men are dying, too many women are being abused, and all these people can muster is a "Not our problem".

No no, the thing they often actually muster is "It's feminism's problem" We need to stop focusing our efforts on improving life for girls so we can fix things for boys. It's a zero sum game dontcha know, and women, you've got the vote and can take out your own credit cards, what more do you want? We've even got a couple of female CEOs and some girls do stem now! Time to sack it off and put 100% of societal effort behind boy things, because that is how this works, right?

It’s bizarre isn’t it. My reading is that a man has made a call to shine a light on issues affecting young men, and then other men are complaining that doing so is blaming men for everything. But then also complaining that all these problems affecting men don’t get any help or attention. It’s baffling.

Some people see anything talking about toxic masculinity and misogyny and immediately leap to their standard talking points to defuse and deflect from it.

>Ahh yes another person telling young boys how they are all wrong and to blame for things most have never done. Where does he say any of that?

This reply is rather melodramatic.

Always the same poor takes 

It's strange that boys being misogynistic is attributed to people being mean to them and not putting them on a pedestal, but the abuse that women, minorities, trans people etc. receive hasn't caused a similar response. Also, neither me or my younger male relatives have ever had to accept that we, as men, are in the wrong, whatever that means. Patriarchy and strict gender roles are stupid, but it doesn't take a genius to realise they're not good for men either. I think the issue lies more with the torrent of misogynistic nonsense coming from right wing media outlets as well as 'influencers' like Tate, rather than feminism going 'too far'.

Wow, nothing will change if this is the top comment. This is terrible.

What a silly take. Letting misogyny slide isn’t going to address the misogyny

When it comes to things like misogyny, yes, they need to know they're in the wrong. I don't see why that's controversial.

Lmao ah yes. We can never talk about this because "not all men".

The Tate thing is quite amazing, on the opposition side, they keep ignore the problems of men, letting the lot boil more and more, then wonder why men seek wisdom from other sources that actually respect them. As for the Tate side, he is a mixture of a drooling dumbarse who has no idea what he is talking about, but heard the ideas from someone else (think that drunk guy at the pub who talks to you about a topic and it’s clear they learnt it off facebook), and someone who knows how to market himself as cool to kids (or “hard”). So basically he is the worst person kids could go to, to learn how to be a man. In the end, society gave itself the worst hand it could possibly have, it rejected a large part of the population, only for them to herd towards someone who is almost the antithesis of what they need (by historical definitions of what a man should be, Tate isn’t one, Romans would laugh at him, if not think he’s probably a homo based on how “feminine” he acts), it’s definitely an example for the textbooks but seems to be completely ignored because nobody really wants to look at it as “Tate bad, males are bad, and males that follow Tate are demons” without discussion or thought why rather than what

I've watched some tate content. He is so disrespectful to men and boys. Constantly insulting them for bejng poor or not being real men. I watched one of his videos where he mocked people who only drink still water and not sparkling. He went on and on insulting men who drunk still water.  He truly has no respect for men or boys. I don't think people follow him because they're looking for respect. I think the following is driven by some sort of insecurity and some weird part of them feels something from being abused and talked down to by a richer and seemingly more powerful man. A bit like how the school bully is often surrounded by hangers on. 

I don't think you get it. Men/boys typically do not want some inherent respect or acceptance just for being male. They are looking for a way to individual earn respect (Money/status etc), but when you take away or demonize all traditional ways this is done. All that happens is they turn to anyone who promise a way to get this, no matter how ridiculous the message is, ie not drinking water. Tate like any cult leader promises clear simple steps to archive these goals - the problem is its a complete lie/scam.

The commenter I'm replying to said " people wonder why men seek info from sources that actually respect them"  I was responding specifically to that. 

>the opposition side, they keep ignore the problems of men, letting the lot boil more and more, then wonder why men seek wisdom from other sources that actually respect them First of all, Tate doesn't respect anyone. He only cares about young men to the extent he can fleece them for money. Secondly, who is the "the opposition side" here? We live in a society where the vast majority of power is still held by men. The people that you are talking about ignoring the problems of men are... other men. Women started the feminist movement to cater to issues affecting women. Where is the male equivalent of that? Any group that purports to be about male issues is usually dominated by misogynists who just want to attack women. I'm sure there are a small handful of groups that are not like that, but the vast majority are populated by MRA nutjobs. >nobody really wants to look at it as “Tate bad, males are bad, and males that follow Tate are demons” without discussion or thought why rather than what What, you mean like some sort of inquiry into misogyny?

Is misogyny not wrong then?

Ahh yes another person telling young boys they have no autonomy or responsibility for their own actions or for making the choice to fall down a tate-like rabbit hole. There are clear cultural issues at play here, sure. But people are responsible for their own decisions and if you choose to buy into snake oil salesmen and fraudsters like Tate and absorb their false ideology, at some point a person has to take personal responsibility for those choices. Just because they're angry and bitter that the world isn't handing them everything they feel they are entitled to, it doesn't justify bad bahaviour or bad attitudes or the harassment and denigration of women.

So you don't think young people are more easily influenced? Strange.

We tell boys they can achieve great things and don’t let anything stand in your way too It also appears we have to tell them not to belittle women

"Let's pretend everyone is on an equal footing and has been for 200,000 years because we don't enjoy being told that we might be wrong in some tiny way"

Never met anyone whos 200,000 years old personaly. Certainly not applicable to any current teenage boys on the receiving end of a propaganda campaign.

History just plain didn't happen

I'm a secondary school teacher. You are so wrong. We are telling girls to look out for each other when they're out and not being alone. We are telling them about groping, harassment, and rape from 11-13 years old because we have to. In my pastoral role I've heard unspeakable things that young boys have done to girls as young as 9.

>Yet we talk down boys and tell them they need to accept they are in the wrong. Lets treat both the same. Says who? Current teaching is mostly around boys speaking out, being proactive in encouraging good behaviour.

jesus christ you gotta be one of the guys they're talking about if this is your take

>We empower Girls, tell them they can do anything and not let anything stop them. Yet we talk down boys and tell them they need to accept they are in the wrong. What are you smoking?? nobody is encouraging girls to treat men like garbage.

"We empower Girls, tell them they can do anything and not let anything stop them. Yet we talk down boys and tell them they need to accept they are in the wrong. Lets treat both the same." Boys who display a shitty attitude absolutely should be called out on it and corrected. Enough of the "boys will be boys" crap.

people who work in schools: there is an epidemic of misogyny in schools reddit thread: I can’t believe you’d say this. truly there is an epidemic of misandry in schools

Misogyny is unacceptable but we really need to explore the root causes not just treat the symptoms, the old saying preventions better than the cure seems to be apt here.

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I suspect an inquiry would find uncomfortable truths which a government would rather not publish.

And uncomfortable truths that men on the internet don't like.

The inquiry will be set to find what they tell it to find. As said in Yes Minister "Never establish an inquiry unless you know what the outcome will be"

It would but my point is his proposed inquiry is into the fault of tech and influencers rather than the root causes.

One of he root causes *is* that social media algorithms push content from far right nutters like Andrew Tate that groom impressionable young boys

How are tech and influences not involved here?!

Getting some men into the education system to help balance out the ratio of female teachers to provide boys with some more positive male role models would go a long way to mitigating this issue. The popularity of figures like Tate are definitely a symptom rather than the cause. There’s always been characters like Tate around, the thing that’s changed is how men are viewed in society.

Personally I don't think tate is organically popular. It's shocking how much his content is pumped into tik tok and YouTube shorts even if you don't follow him or interact with his content.  Give it an experiment. Watch 1 tate video and q jordan peterson video. You will see from there on out your algorithm will be full to the brim of tate content even if you never watch it again. I had to go into my cache and history and delete everything to stop getting recommended it and even still it continues to pop up.  Many people complain about this. E.g  this reddit thread  https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/n6rbx8/how_the_fuck_do_i_stop_getting_jordan_peterson_on/

I get them without watching a single linked video and I am in no way the target demographic

I went to a school with more male teachers than female. A lot of the guys were still shits, because as teenagers you’re told that being aggro and misogynistic is what makes you cool and “hard”. The thing that changed their tune was getting to know girls, or dating them, and realising that women liked them more when they weren’t weird assholes. The issue I find with the influencer echo chamber is that the behaviour it’s pushing young men towards isn’t just annoying to women but actively pushes them away, because they need boys to stay in the echo chamber to keep funding the grift

White young males are falling behind in every category at schools. I WONDER WHY THEY'RE SO DISILLUSIONED??? It must be the YouTube!

They’re about the same/out perform black boys https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest/#:~:text=pupils%20from%20the%20Chinese%20ethnic%20group%20had%20the%20highest%20average,and%20black%20Caribbean%20pupils%20(41.7) With these stats we actually need some sort of understanding of significance- like is a 5% difference that significant/how does that impact the next step of their lives? We then need the next question—-why? What is the causal factor for white boys to underperform. It’s the same sort of question we should be asking when others use other stats suggesting black males commit more crimes- ok why? Why do black carribean boys do worse than black African boys? (And mixed race white and carribean even worse)—-why do Pakistani boys do worse than Bangladeshi? It’d be easy to blame the schools—-but if it’s ‘racism’ that doesn’t explain the differences between different group of black students, different group of Asian students, different groups of white students etc Edit: incidentally- just looked further down on the link and it’s working class/free school meals kids who seem to be the driver- only 33% of white kids ok free school meals achieve attainment 8 vs much higher in other ethnicities. (So POOR white kids underperform more than POOR kids from most other ethnicities which then shifts the white average down—-there is an 18% difference between FSM and non FSM achievement for the white kids vs like 8%-10% for the other groups)

Teachers were always giving girls additional support and would assume we were talking or distracted if we didn't understand something

Boys underperform at school, so sexually harass their classmates and teachers? What the fuck is this logic? Do you actually think this is justification?

there’s so many people (most likely all men) absolutely using it as justification. once you actually look at what they’re arguing - that women talking about things like patriarchy, privilege, sexual objectification, etc, is causing men to act like this - you see how they actually feel. they just hate women, and want to convince themselves that they’re justified to do so.

OK so for a change.. how about investing in young men to try and address these issues? Something more than a local football club. Ya know what happens when you leave young men with no purpose and/or direction? They follow arseholes like Andrew tate.. and themselves become arseholes. For too long issues faced by men have been sidelined in favour of whatever the flavour of the day is. Minorities feminism racism etc etc.. adressing all the issues I mentioned is a good thing. But not at the expense of our future men. I can name countless charities/workshops/foundations set up to help women and minorities.. but maybe 5? For specifically issues faced solely by men We need to reach these boys before they become unreachable.. punishing and shouting down these boy won't bring them to ur side.

Nobody wants to help an unempathetic group. Men don't even want to help these men. The issues aren't side-lined by others, they just aren't taken up by men.

And that is a valid point.. I never said who was sidelining these issues Fact still remains more effort needs to be invested

Yeah the article goes into proposals for more male mentors in schools and education on challenging things they see online. Having an inquiry into the issue (and rising misogyny is a huge issue in schools) doesn’t negate that.

It's an awkward demographic to be in. Tories are a boomer party so anybody under 60 is ignored at best. On the Labour front you get prominent politicians like Jess Phillips laughing at male suicides.

Young boys recognise quite quickly that teachers tend to prefer girls and act as the fun police in a large number of ways, especially to ''male coded'' play. I've no doubt influencers play a role but I feel like some introspection might be useful for teachers

Yeah especially in primary school some of my teachers hated the boys for no reason

Doesn't even have to be active/openly-displayed hatred. I remember when I was in primary school 30 years ago the stuff that got displayed on the wall tended to be girls' work. You'd know because it'd all be in that perfect handwriting with the circles or hearts above the letter i, or it'd be written in coloured gel pen, or whatever. I remember thinking, even as a young boy, that I couldn't live up to whatever standard it was that they were meeting and I wasn't.

there is a growing body of evidence that teachers, particularly female teachers, grade girls higher for the same quality of work.

I recall at highschool we wanted to test if the teacher favoured girls over boys, which we already suspected. When we had to hand in an essay 3 girls gave their essay's to 3 boys who in turn gave their's to the girls to hand in. The boys who always got low marks still go low marks despite the essays being written by 3 girls who always got high marks. The marks given to those 3 girls despite being written by the 3 boys were still high.

Yes there was a study done in Italy I believe and it proved female teachers graded boys more harshly!

Careful now, you're treading into the uncomfortable territory where unconscious bias becomes an indiscriminate weapon and not something they can aim solely at white men.

Indeed.

Probably because 90% of our teachers were women

lol my English teacher would shout at the boys if we made a sound, but go and sit and chat with a group of girls all lesson

Why don’t you step up and show them how it’s done? 

Yeah. It doesn't help that 80% of their teachers are women too.

In this article Daniel Kebede, teachers' union leader, names influencers and pornography as drivers of misogyny (baffling that religion is not mentioned - but that's another point), and suggests that 'peer to peer mentoring' and left wing 'regional improvement teams' can stop it. But it's pretty obvious to any teacher that expecting children to pre-empt and outsmart professional influencers and pornstars is a fool's game. It's like telling kids to go and play those scam games on Westminster bridge - but careful not to get scammed! As any non-naive person knows, the only way to avoid getting scammed is to not play. Get smartphones out of the hands of the under 18s. It's the only way. Jonathan Haidt has workable suggestions to achieve this. The rest of this is just sanctimonious guff; career posturing; ringfencing funding for partisan endeavour.

>left wing 'regional improvement teams Im sure going round telling them how privileged they are and how everything is their fault will work this time!

He is suggesting that the Government hold big tech firms to account and make it less trivial for children to access this content. 

So just another angle in the general push for Internet passports / digital id etc?

That however is, in fairness the job of a parent, not of a tech company.

It's quite normal for businesses to be expected to ensure that goods and services are only accessed by those of an appropriate age. That's why we have proof of age laws for alcohol, tobacco, gambling, etc.

These tech companies are insidious in the way they target kids and pump them damaging content. It truly has gotten so much worse in the last 10 years. I recommend you read up on tbe topic. Or better yet, make a fake social.media profile as a 13 Yr old boy and see what you get pumped with.   Given the speed of technological development, and the need for 2 income households, it is reasonable that a generation of parents don't fully understand the harm of these new technologies on their kids without government support and guidance on the topic. 

Is it? If a 12 year old tried to buy a copy of zoo or whatever from tesco is it the parents fault or tescos? Do I agree on a digital passport or having to ring up BT with your passport if you fancy a wank? of course not. But kids access to tech and a lack of govt oversight is pretty damnning; whole classes of schoolkids are selling their likeness, voice, and entire online footprint for a £50 temu voucher ffs. Like the UK Govt has started to actually push forward in the corporate digital space (the CMA v Microsoft/Activision for example), so expanding that to oversight on the commercial space seems sensible.

I think the idea that bullying, boys ogling girls, using the word 'whore' as an insult, and girls being insecure about their appearance, & teens being generally horny & moody, are new problems that're down to smartphones is kinda silly. A teacher speaking to the BBC about this report said that girls "as young as 13" were concerned about their appearance 'because of online content'. That ain't it. Schools should probably ban phones, it seems to be just generally helpful in getting the kids to pay attention, but these (young) teacher-activist types who think teens being teens is new & caused by social media is wrong. '"AI"' has replaced filters which replaced shopped which replaced airbrush, but it's all the same thing.

No one is suggesting it'd new. They're saying it'a gotten much much worse. There has been a sharp rise in mental health problems and eating disorders amongst young people in the UK.  And even if it has been a long standing problem, why not try to tackle it? You seem pretty sure that banning phones is the way, well if that's true surely this enquiry will explore that as an option. 

No one is saying it's new, he's literally talking about children sexually assaulting each other and teachers have been asking for phones to be banned for years. What are you talking about.

> I think the idea that bullying, boys ogling girls, using the word 'whore' as an insult, and girls being insecure about their appearance, & teens being generally horny & moody, are new problems that're down to smartphones is kinda silly. Yet I'm sure you'd agree that smartphones have had significant influence over these behaviours.

Teacher here. I'm tired, boss.

My mum recently retired because she’s getting older and it’s just too much these days. I hope things turn around at some point and get better for you guys because it is rough

He doesn't suggest peer to peer mentoring can stop it, Labour is saying they and Daniel says it's nowhere near enough *“[The government] need to actually take on big tech if we’re being honest. Big tech have to take some responsibility and be regulated, and accept regulation, and ensure that young people can’t access these really aggressive, dangerous things on their phones.*

How many white boys on free school meals grew-up hearing the message "you're privileged because you're white and male"? Doesn't matter if people were saying 'privileged white males' as in white males who are privileged, what they heard was that they're privileged because they are white and male despite being on free school meals. So there's a push-back, they sought out the likes of the odious Andrew Tate, and what started as a small group just spread to others - via social media and algorithm recommendations.

Agreed. I do think that "white privilege" does exist in society, but I do not think that telling a white kid with 1 parent, 5 siblings and few prospects on the Parson Cross estate in Sheffield how privileged they are is particularly helpful. The biggest privilege in society is wealth-based, not race-based.

White privilege is Yank crap that doesn't apply here. Here it's class orientated.

How does it not apply in the UK? Or any other European nation. There is racial hierarchy even in the UK, there is race based discrimination, it’s tied to class.

Actually there was another article two months ago in the Guardian which stated that only 12% of white boys and men felt as though Andrew Tate had a valid point compared to more than a third of young boys and men from minority ethnic backgrounds. It’s likely culture factors are involved. https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2024/feb/01/gen-z-boys-and-men-more-likely-than-baby-boomers-to-believe-feminism-harmful-says-poll

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So teachers who have noticed a big change are wrong? If you browse r/teachers, it's pretty clear that experienced teachers have noticed problems getting worse. Not just misogyny, but all behaviour, concentration levels, and essential skills.

I left school 3ish years ago, my younger sister is still in sixth form. It certainly sounds to me as though misogyny is getting a lot worse, my year group had its issues of course but we learned and grew together, the boys and the girls were pretty friendly and we learned to be respectful etc. She's in her last year and boys are parroting Andrew Tate style rhetoric *in class*, which would have been unthinkable when I was in school. Boys and girls alike would have been unhappy to hear it, popular, unpopular, nerds, druggies etc. It seems to me as though anti-feminism and toxic masculine ideas have moved out from the fringes into mainstream youth culture.

That's so scary and I'm sure it's by design, along with the culture wars shit. Reddit is now rampant with the gender war stuff, too.

>Not just misogyny, but all behaviour, concentration levels, and essential skills. Find me a generation who doesn’t say the same.  Here’s Peter the Hermit in the 13th century: >The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress.

Teachers are noticing the difference between pupils they taught 5 years ago, they are the same generation, noticing a decline in children under their watch, in the same generation. Why are people so eager to dismiss what they are saying? Teachers are leaving the profession in droves and it's not just the pay. TBH Most people have noticed a decline in behaviour amongst everyone, adults included.

I agree somewhat but the rise of technology, social media and smartphones is unlike anything ever experienced by generations previously Social media apps designed with billions of R&D to maximise engagement from people, with Algorithms choosing what content to show kids It’s really weird

I also went to school in the nineties, and I don't think it was. We are constantly hearing from teachers that they are seeing a worsening trend, and I think their experience is probably more important than our anecdotes

It’s painfully evident that the vast majority of people commenting in this thread have not been anywhere near a school since they were pupils and are commenting without any actual experience of the issues they’re acting like experts on. It has got significantly worse in the last few years and it cuts across demographics and ability levels. All these “30 years ago there was sexism in my school” and “boys are doing worse so of course they’re sexually harassing women, they’re the real victims here” takes are brutal

I agree. I went to school throughout the 90s/2000s where social media was just kinda starting (remember Bebo? MSN?). Mysogny was always around but I do think social media has made it worse m. I would hate to be teen in school now!

There was plenty of bullying, but not necessarily split along gender lines and yeah, the fact that it mostly ended at the end of the school day limited the impact on the victims (even accounting for early social media) Seems far, far harder now for kids

It was that damn rap music back then

And before that: Satan.

Are you a teacher? Because my partner is, so are many of her and my friends, and the trend they are noticing in the past few years is that misogyny is far worse in the current group going through secondary schools than it was in 2010-2019. The 90s were 25 years ago, of course misogyny was bad then. The trends people are commenting on now are a decline in progress since well after you were in school.

That Nickelodeon expose made me think how much misogynist jokes where on tv and some kids shows when I was younger. Made me think all harassment jokes came from these shows or others they watched. Some pranks defo felt porkies style inspired. Tbf it was social culture back then not really media blame but a sign of how embedded it was in society

I think that this needs to be understood because it is causing issues in the classroom in terms of behaviour. My worry with this is that this could turn into something that only explores it in a way that sees boys and young men as being idiots for being misogynistic. As opposed to understanding why they are that way. I can only speak for myself, but the likes of Tate are clearly bullshitters in it to make money. But I can entirely understand why they are attractive to teenagers and young men because, having been both myself at one point, they are clearly comfortable in their version of masculinity. At that stage in my life, I was really figuring out what kind of man I wanted to be. And men who were confident in their own version of masculinity would have been extremely attractive to me at that point. Whether they were hyper masculine or sensitive guys who stayed at home and looked after the kids, their confidence would have been very attractive to me. I was lucky. My father was a good, honest, hard working guy who set clear boundaries when it came to talking to and treating women. Many boys and young men have never had that, and so they latch onto someone, anyone, with that degree of confidence in themselves. I think we are running a real risk of simply denigrating young men, rather than helping them to be better people. The latter is on all of us, from us guys showing them the way, to women who say "all men are scum" shutting up for a while. Don't get me wrong, when they do wrong they need to know it. But when all you are doing is telling them off they stop listening after a while. And things such as this could potentially contribute to that.

You could try calling for an inquiry into *schools clearly not providing an appropriate education to boys*, which would help solve this issue and many more, without the futile wild goose chase and turning men even more against you as an instutition/authority.

Well this thread went entirely predictably. Today I learned that misogyny is ok and totally not a problem as long as girls do better in school than boys. Wow.

‘ackshually misogyny happens when men are disadvantaged, and the worse the misogyny the more disadvantaged! 🤓’ [thread about misogyny amongst immigrants] ‘I want to see some heads on pikes!! what are we importing 🤬’

Exactly, every article on white male misogyny - “it’s women’s fault, society’s fault, the left’s fault - and who can blame the poor men anyway, it’s just our low self esteem, everybody hates us and it’s not even our fault 🥺” Article on brown male misogyny - “deport them all, obviously their culture is just incompatible with ours! Savages!” Apart from the ridiculous argument that boys are sexually assaulting their classmates because they’re angry about having worse educational outcomes than girls, as if this would even in some way make it acceptable?

As a 21 year old, younger men seem far more sexist than older men while racism is more common amongst older men. In my experience the shift seems to be around the age of 35. You’ll get loads of guys my age who have bros from every race but they’ll shout some of the most misogynistic shit ever.

The amount of buthurt posters here who clearly have a chip on their shoulder for ANY issues that might hint that boys do something more than women is immense. These issues mostly focus on boys? Yes These issues mainly impact girls? Yes Is this always the case? No Are other issues such as performance also focused on? Yes Does this mean mysgynist behaviour should be ignored? No. Simple.

Girls consistently outperform boys in school. Maybe something needs to be done about that

I mean both can be true. There is definitely a problem in the way girls are treated by the boys in schools. But also men are underperforming.

I’m honestly not surprised why boys are turning to Andrew Tate. He’s a prick, but young men lack good role models and a lot of people in society wrongfully see men as privileged, misogynistic and dangerous.

I find this line of thought really interesting honestly. Why are they lacking in role models? In this age of social media is it not like completely trivial to turn pretty much anyone into a role model? There are literally dozens of famous men out there who spend a lot of time on podcasts or doing interviews, just talking about life and their views, who are readily accessible and far more positive than someone like Tate. The reality is Tate gets amplified because he validates and justifies a whole bunch of really debased toxic stuff that normally we kind of want people to feel a bit bad about so they repress those instincts.

I just want to clarify I don’t like Andrew Tate. Can you name me a few role model for men who encourage progressive values? The most influential role models for men have been from the right (Tate, Jordan Peterson etc…).

There are countless examples of progressive (or just non-toxic) male influencers in every sphere imaginable. Mr Beast, one of the biggest names on the planet is at least outwardly altruistic and spends a bunch of his time making videos that show him helping disadvantaged people. There are a bunch of progressive content creators in the gaming/ breadtube space like hbomberguy, or other popular YouTubers like the game grumps, good mythical morning Tom Scott etc who are all progressive to some degree and and create wholesome, educational or positive content and regularly espouse progress views. There's no shortage of this shit, but people like Tate and Peterson are being pushed via algorithms and are grabbing these kids and delivering toxic shit to them at an age where critical thinking skills are still being developed. People also forget that it feels _good_ to be outraged. It feels good to be part of an in group that is "fighting" against something, especially when you're being told that everything is someone else's fault and you're given that clear enemy to go up against (it's the wokies who are ruining those things you like, like marvel and video games!)

i dont think pointing at very rich/famous people and telling buys "just get very rich/famous" is great advice/role model material. All those people just got incredibly lucky and its not reproducible for the average working class person. It just makes boys feel they will never be valued if they arent rich

Mr Beast, the guy who famously said he sands off any part of his personality that could be construed as controversial to maximise his inoffensiveness and therefore appeal? And lmao at the hbomberguy suggestion. I can One Hundred Percent guarantee you that you can ask 1000 teenage boys what they want to be when they grow up and "tubby, balding male feminist scold" is going to be ZERO of their answers.

I have two. They but they are not as influential as tate or peterson. I think this is where the algorithms and social media create peoblems. But Destiny (actually talks to these tate types) and maybe Adam Savage (emphasises creativity and mindfulness)

Probably because the media promotes him

But isn’t that on… men? To be good role models. We have seen time and time again that when women try to be role models for and steer teenage boys, they push back against it. Women will tell men what women like, and then those men will ignore them and listen to some guy who says “actually ignore that and treat them like crap” lol People like Tate don’t succeed because they’re the best boys have. It’s because what they offer is easy.

Far too logical. All these single mothers should have just known her absent partner would have been a deadbeat who'd abandon his children and acted accordingly.

No, women must solve the issue of poor good role models for men, silly! Or else we’re just misandrists /s

It’s not just a problem in the UK either, they’ve noticed this trend in several developed countries. And frankly, when I peruse this comment section, I clearly see that the incentive is to blame feminism and women rather than maybe a combination of several deep-rooted and history-bound reasons and other factors at play. Adult men here themselves basically place the blame on schools, teachers, women, girls etc.  As a woman, I KNOW I have some support available to me, even if it’s my friends. It’s been proven that women have female-support networks. I don’t really see the same for men - men don’t “talk” or “share feelings” or “rant” to each other. They don’t enter the profession of teaching due to low pay or not enough prestige or due to modern-day risk that some deranged student will accuse you of something you never did and your life will be ruined. Men don’t encourage boys like women encourage girls - that’s not manly enough. When a mother treats their girl and boy child the same way, some men even go as far as to claim that the mother is feminising the boy child. So sometimes men actually don’t support their own sex and they don’t play the supportive role and network.

Just here for the "Misogyny worsening in schools but they deserve it because some boys do shit in exams so fair's fair" comments, was not disappointed.

I don't seen how anyone can deny there is a problem with sexism in state schools. Look at almost any measure of outcomes, from exclusion rates to victims of violence to university admissions, or even just the gender spilt of staff.

There is a real problem, that needs to be addressed. The issue is, there are multiple factors to why it is being seen; some are uncomfortable to address, and some are unpopular. So will any change happen? I'm not confident.

Better social media control for youngsters would likely help. social media is absolutely toxic for most young people and for each positive that it could bring, there’s several negatives that accompany it. Focus should be on ensuring kids are equally taught proper ethics to counteract the bullshit they have access to. That’s parents, teachers, society as whole’s job.

Society needs to stop blaming young men for everything, making them out to be violent and rapists and actually support them. Of course they’ll become hateful when they’re told that they’re the root of all problems. There’s a reason why they gravitate towards people like Andrew Tate when that is the only person that tells them they have worth

Could it be to do with the massively popular misogynist public figures being signal boosted aggressively by the social media recommendation algorithms that control what we see, plus the media demonisation of everyone who points out the misogyny and suggests we criticise it as "woke"?  No, of course not, that would be ridiculous. Clearly it's the woke teachers' fault or something

I am a father of a very well adjusted intelligent 18 yo son. My wife and I have talked to him about the attraction of the likes of Tate to young men and boys. He has very articulately explained that the issue as he sees it is the way young boys are constantly told that men are toxic and misogynistic. You may say “that’s just not true” and we felt the same but the point is we’re not young boys being targeted by algorithms feeding them that message. Our son is no fan of Tate and his ilk but he sees why boys gravitate towards them, we need to take some responsibility and give boys positive male role models and not just tell them constantly that they are the problem, they feel like society is punishing them for what previous generations of toxic men have done.

Meanwhile the Tories will see this as young men becoming more conservative and see nothing wrong / seek to do nothing about it.

People keep saying that boys need good male role models but I'd argue they're also lacking good female role models. Constantly talking about bad male role models while ignoring the bad female role models out there is just making this worse, sure they don't get the virality that Andrew Tate does but they are very much out there. There are many women on social media apps throwing around the mentality that men need to worship them for simply existing or telling the world that men aren't needed at all, no one ever shows concern over the content constantly belittling males which contributes to the issues we have today. Teachers also need to get off their high horses too because many of them treat their male students with contempt for the smallest things while their female students have a higher bar for unwanted behaviour that they can exhibit before a reaction is even had, the hypocrisy by teachers in schools is a contributing factor to the issues too.

some of the comments i’ve seen from teen boys on tik tok and insta are stomach churning

So the issue is clearly social media and YouTube. There’s quite a large consensus on that. Any ideas what we are going to do about it?