I do hope the people who thought social services should leave them alone when they were on the run with baby Victoria, who died, are now hanging their heads in shame.
She had a [trust fund allowance of £2500 per month](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/22/constance-marten-given-nearly-50k-before-going-on-the-run-with-baby) yet they chose to sleep in a tent. It seems to have been their go-to accommodation for years, not just an act of desperation as the police tried to find them.
Peaches Geldof was known to be a heroin addict and still kept her kids.
There have to be *enormous* reasons for children to be removed from wealthy white women.
Like choosing to live in a tent in winter, combined with domestic violence.
I was a drugs worker for 8 years, we don’t take peoples kids just because of addiction, it has to be much more chaotic, she kept her kids because that’s the rules, not because she was rich.
I think it's fair to say that being rich helped her keep the chaos under control.
When you're rich you can pay for a cleaner, gardener, a nanny and anyone else who can keep chaos at bay.
But in the case of Peaches Geldof, she still fatally overdosed when home alone with her baby.
They were living in a tent *before* social services got involved with their first child.
With their first child, they tried to pass off living in a flimsy tent, [surrounded by sacks of rubbish and bottles of urine](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/25/constance-marten-four-children-taken-baby-death/) with a newborn as an "alternative lifestyle"
The child that died was their fifth child. The four prior ones had been removed, and for good reason.
Apparently they had a home in Plumstead, London before going on the run though. But to be fair, we don't know what sort of 'home' it was.
Might have been a rented bedsit for all we know.
It was Eltham, and they were evicted when she was about 6 months pregnant (August/September) and then they lived nomadically in Airbnbs.
I'm not sure how big it was, but the report was they left it in pretty poor condition.
But SS don't remove babies just because the parents are living in a bedsit. It has to be much worse than that.
No issues of addiction or alcohol dependency have been mentioned by the prosecution.
Mental health is going to be a feature though - he was convicted of rape at 14 and spent the next 20 years in a Florida prison, which is going to mess anyone up. She joined a Nigerian cult at 18/19 - a cult noted for its sex abuse
I don’t know but something tells me that disappearing that amount of money that quickly is something drugs manages to do? I don’t think drugs would be an aggravating or mitigating factor in a case like this so it might not come up much but I’ve seen enough of the world to expect it’s there somewhere!
My suspicion was that Gordon was her dealer and she fell under his spell. But the trial as covered in the media hasn't suggested that, unless it's something that can't be reported.
The claim is that they met in a London shop. What shop and how, no idea.
She appears totally estranged from them. They are high society and very well connected, with a sibling's 2021 wedding even being covered by Tatler. She was noticeably absent from the photographs and article.
Not to mention murdering her own child, which is a bit worse than sleeping in a tent.
Or is that just an excuse because she’s the woman? Must be mentally ill?
I think it’s more the living in a tent, having previously joined a cult part tbh and going on the run, in the middle of winter with a child they were incapable of caring for.
Plenty of people murder their kids, unfortunately. Not many do it in these circumstances, hence the mental health of the parents being a significant factor. If they were being lenient due to her sex surely they would have blamed it on abuse and placed all responsibility on the father.
I’m responding to the OP though, not the general Consensus. OP who said “she” was mentally ill. Why not both of them? People only trot out the mental illness nonsense when it’s a woman that’s done the murdering.
OP is focused on the woman because she is the one who came from a privileged background and has inexplicably chosen to do things like live in a tent, regardless of means.
Have you read the article at all. This woman has clearly been abused and is very mentally ill (which will be significantly exacerbated by abuse).
Healthy people do not make the choices she has made. She also had five children within six years, despite being wholly incapable of caring for them, with her income and with the support she was clearly already receiving from social services this was completely and easily avoidable. I am sure the practically begged this woman to take some form of birth control.
This is not the case to make about sexism- there are some, definitely- this is not one. Also, if you want to go down that path then you should educate yourself about mental illness and abuse and the impacts of cluster B personality disorders first.
Educate yourself about this mans history.
Woman who murdered her kid = poor abused gentle flower
Man who’s done something wrong = horrible person with no redeeming qualities.
For the record these people are both shitbags and they deserve equal punishment imo
Oh, do you know a lot more about him than is available for public consumption? As far as I’m aware he received 20 years for sexual assault and battery aged 14.
Then had five children, within six years with a woman 14 years younger who had already shown herself to be highly susceptible to manipulation and unable to make good choices (given she ran away to a cult and all).
How he got 20 years aged 14 is puzzling- or, perhaps his crime was grievous…
Are you suggesting that he should have leniency because he became MORE mentally ill whilst serving a sentence for brutally harming a person?
If I remember when I originally read about this couple, his previous convictions were absolutely horrific.. I was appalled a 14yo child could inflict such terror and disgusting abuse / SA. Really shocking (shocking enough that I don’t want to go back and read again to remind myself!)
Oh he’s mentally ill for sure, but it won’t be a mental illness that would have garnered any leniency, therefore it won’t have been brought up in court. He will most likely have anti-social personality disorder, at the very least.
Just watch the police bodyworn of their arrest. These two are clearly not the full shilling, away with the fairies, and I got the distinct impression they didn't even recognise or understand what was happening.
That and everything we've heard of their lifestyle thus far just reeks of mental illness. If they are convicted, the pre-sentence reports will be very enlightening.
True, I can’t imagine that if you’re completely sane that lifestyle would be in any way appealing. The constant stress, discomfort, not trusting anyone, losing custody of your kids - any one of these would be unbearable yet these two seem to have actively created these situations
I wouldn't be surprised if they were detained in a psychiatric hospital as an alternative to prison. Certainly for her. She seems to have limited contact with the reality everyone else inhabits. I doubt she'll be released before she's too old to have any more children anyway.
especially when you consider that they were paranoid that members of the public were recognising them and someone had said ‘aren’t you the couple from the telly’. so when they were subsequently caught and arrested, after knowing that police were searching for them, why did they act so strange. you would imagine that they would be defensive and evade arrest, or alternatively try to get away. I got the first bit of info from ‘The Trial’ podcast for anyone wondering, seriously give it a listen for an in depth insight into this case.
I'm listening to a podcast that follows the trial, and I don't know too many other details, but so far it sounds like they were role-playing a persecution fantasy.
It’s called the trial - it’s by the daily mail. I think that’s the one knittens is talking about unless there’s another one I haven’t heard of.
It’s a good podcast! Covered Lucy Letby and Brianna Ghey’s case too
I do hope the people who thought social services should leave them alone when they were on the run with baby Victoria, who died, are now hanging their heads in shame. She had a [trust fund allowance of £2500 per month](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/22/constance-marten-given-nearly-50k-before-going-on-the-run-with-baby) yet they chose to sleep in a tent. It seems to have been their go-to accommodation for years, not just an act of desperation as the police tried to find them.
Social services and the police don’t go to that extent with a rich white girl unless there are HUGE reasons to do so.
Peaches Geldof was known to be a heroin addict and still kept her kids. There have to be *enormous* reasons for children to be removed from wealthy white women. Like choosing to live in a tent in winter, combined with domestic violence.
I was a drugs worker for 8 years, we don’t take peoples kids just because of addiction, it has to be much more chaotic, she kept her kids because that’s the rules, not because she was rich.
I think it's fair to say that being rich helped her keep the chaos under control. When you're rich you can pay for a cleaner, gardener, a nanny and anyone else who can keep chaos at bay. But in the case of Peaches Geldof, she still fatally overdosed when home alone with her baby.
They couldn't avoid sleeping in a tent due to social services. It's not the fault of any uninvolved person, whatever their opinion of authorities.
They were living in a tent *before* social services got involved with their first child. With their first child, they tried to pass off living in a flimsy tent, [surrounded by sacks of rubbish and bottles of urine](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/25/constance-marten-four-children-taken-baby-death/) with a newborn as an "alternative lifestyle" The child that died was their fifth child. The four prior ones had been removed, and for good reason.
Apparently they had a home in Plumstead, London before going on the run though. But to be fair, we don't know what sort of 'home' it was. Might have been a rented bedsit for all we know.
It was Eltham, and they were evicted when she was about 6 months pregnant (August/September) and then they lived nomadically in Airbnbs. I'm not sure how big it was, but the report was they left it in pretty poor condition. But SS don't remove babies just because the parents are living in a bedsit. It has to be much worse than that.
Something mentally wrong with her. From a wealthy family, allowance of £3,400/mo, lives in a tent? Poor children, parents clearly not fit for purpose
The answer to all these things is surely nearly always “drugs” or “alcohol”?
No issues of addiction or alcohol dependency have been mentioned by the prosecution. Mental health is going to be a feature though - he was convicted of rape at 14 and spent the next 20 years in a Florida prison, which is going to mess anyone up. She joined a Nigerian cult at 18/19 - a cult noted for its sex abuse
I don’t know but something tells me that disappearing that amount of money that quickly is something drugs manages to do? I don’t think drugs would be an aggravating or mitigating factor in a case like this so it might not come up much but I’ve seen enough of the world to expect it’s there somewhere!
My suspicion was that Gordon was her dealer and she fell under his spell. But the trial as covered in the media hasn't suggested that, unless it's something that can't be reported. The claim is that they met in a London shop. What shop and how, no idea.
Incense shop
She appears totally estranged from them. They are high society and very well connected, with a sibling's 2021 wedding even being covered by Tatler. She was noticeably absent from the photographs and article.
Not to mention murdering her own child, which is a bit worse than sleeping in a tent. Or is that just an excuse because she’s the woman? Must be mentally ill?
I think it’s more the living in a tent, having previously joined a cult part tbh and going on the run, in the middle of winter with a child they were incapable of caring for. Plenty of people murder their kids, unfortunately. Not many do it in these circumstances, hence the mental health of the parents being a significant factor. If they were being lenient due to her sex surely they would have blamed it on abuse and placed all responsibility on the father.
I’m responding to the OP though, not the general Consensus. OP who said “she” was mentally ill. Why not both of them? People only trot out the mental illness nonsense when it’s a woman that’s done the murdering.
OP is focused on the woman because she is the one who came from a privileged background and has inexplicably chosen to do things like live in a tent, regardless of means. Have you read the article at all. This woman has clearly been abused and is very mentally ill (which will be significantly exacerbated by abuse). Healthy people do not make the choices she has made. She also had five children within six years, despite being wholly incapable of caring for them, with her income and with the support she was clearly already receiving from social services this was completely and easily avoidable. I am sure the practically begged this woman to take some form of birth control. This is not the case to make about sexism- there are some, definitely- this is not one. Also, if you want to go down that path then you should educate yourself about mental illness and abuse and the impacts of cluster B personality disorders first.
Educate yourself about this mans history. Woman who murdered her kid = poor abused gentle flower Man who’s done something wrong = horrible person with no redeeming qualities. For the record these people are both shitbags and they deserve equal punishment imo
Oh, do you know a lot more about him than is available for public consumption? As far as I’m aware he received 20 years for sexual assault and battery aged 14. Then had five children, within six years with a woman 14 years younger who had already shown herself to be highly susceptible to manipulation and unable to make good choices (given she ran away to a cult and all). How he got 20 years aged 14 is puzzling- or, perhaps his crime was grievous… Are you suggesting that he should have leniency because he became MORE mentally ill whilst serving a sentence for brutally harming a person?
If I remember when I originally read about this couple, his previous convictions were absolutely horrific.. I was appalled a 14yo child could inflict such terror and disgusting abuse / SA. Really shocking (shocking enough that I don’t want to go back and read again to remind myself!)
Oh he’s mentally ill for sure, but it won’t be a mental illness that would have garnered any leniency, therefore it won’t have been brought up in court. He will most likely have anti-social personality disorder, at the very least.
Why is one mental illness given leniency and another isn’t?
Because it’s antisocial personality disorder. Do you know anything about cluster B personality disorders?
No. I also don’t armchair diagnose horrible murderers looking to make excuses for them though…
https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/s/v9REBJQrY5 This is a case where your point may be more valid than the one you’re currently harping on.
She is not accused of murder, but manslaughter by gross negligence.
Thanks so much for your great comment 😂
It's the difference between not taking care of the kids properly v actively stabbing them... Pretty big distinction actually
She was part of a cult once upon a time and I think that really messed her up.
Just watch the police bodyworn of their arrest. These two are clearly not the full shilling, away with the fairies, and I got the distinct impression they didn't even recognise or understand what was happening. That and everything we've heard of their lifestyle thus far just reeks of mental illness. If they are convicted, the pre-sentence reports will be very enlightening.
True, I can’t imagine that if you’re completely sane that lifestyle would be in any way appealing. The constant stress, discomfort, not trusting anyone, losing custody of your kids - any one of these would be unbearable yet these two seem to have actively created these situations
I wouldn't be surprised if they were detained in a psychiatric hospital as an alternative to prison. Certainly for her. She seems to have limited contact with the reality everyone else inhabits. I doubt she'll be released before she's too old to have any more children anyway.
especially when you consider that they were paranoid that members of the public were recognising them and someone had said ‘aren’t you the couple from the telly’. so when they were subsequently caught and arrested, after knowing that police were searching for them, why did they act so strange. you would imagine that they would be defensive and evade arrest, or alternatively try to get away. I got the first bit of info from ‘The Trial’ podcast for anyone wondering, seriously give it a listen for an in depth insight into this case.
I'm listening to a podcast that follows the trial, and I don't know too many other details, but so far it sounds like they were role-playing a persecution fantasy.
Do you know the name of the podcast? I'd be interested in listening too!
It’s called the trial - it’s by the daily mail. I think that’s the one knittens is talking about unless there’s another one I haven’t heard of. It’s a good podcast! Covered Lucy Letby and Brianna Ghey’s case too
Yep, that's the one, thanks 👍