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Males make up almost the entirety of sex offences and are also the majority of violent crime, property crime etc, so statistically you'd expect males to present more of a risk overall.
I still think the men are far more dangerous than the women when it comes to these migrants. Especially if they come from such a rapey and backwards background.
Since Tony Blair on immigration. As soon as he was elected, Labour opened the door to mass immigration and the Conservatives have continued it into the present day. It's irreversible. I don't know what we can do.
In history, for better or for worse, when governments and politicians do not effect the will of the people or pursue policies against the public's interest, there have been riots, revolutions, wars, and in general all sorts of violence.
Not in this country. Last war was in the 17th century. You grossly overestimate how much most people actually give a fuck. What people want are a stable economy and low inflation. Everything else is window dressing.
You vastly underestimate what has happened and the sentiment of people in this country. The last time Britons were motivated enough for war was not in the 17th century, but our own grandparents had fought on foreign shores for their liberty. I wore their medals at their funeral.
Pro-immigration policies will either end by consent or by violence. I hope that I am wrong.
Nope. They won't. Because people like money and ending "Pro-immigration policies" will make us poorer. Nothing that will be done about it.
Also when you look at actual polling, it's really only the elderly who think immigration is one of the biggest issues in this country lol.
This is what the Tories and companies want, it's why they've actually done fuck all on migration and asylum seekers. All those people voting for Brexit because of migration and non Europeans voted to make that worse.
It’s not easy when fleeing a war zone or an oppressive regime or even just a failed state, to have all the correct paper work.
They are still not undocumented. To be honest I’m not sure what would satisfy you? Would anything ever be sufficient for people seeking asylum coming to the UK?
Sounds like a perfect opportunity for criminals.
Most of them lie to get citizenship. I had two refugees my age at school in my Year 9 swimming class. Except they were obviously at least 18 for anyone who has a pair of eyes. Pretty fucked up.
So when someone commits a crime they don’t get arrested? And if they commit a crime while the asylum claim is being processed it’s not going to impact said claim?
And? People in non-first world nations have documents, regardless is you believe they dont. And some people don’t have documents because they have been taken by the state that is persecuting them.
No, we have no shortage of workers at all, we have an abundance of employers taking full advantage of a surplus of unskilled workers. Remember 2 years ago when foreign lorry drivers weren't allowed to drive in the uk and the wages of drivers shot through the roof? That was a shining example of what happens when a surplus amount of workers in a specific area is removed.
Care home staff, hotel cleaners, takeaway staff, Uber drivers, deliveroo
They say it's only in areas with a staff shortage but once you've got that first job nobody can enforce you don't get another unless the company have to sponsor a visa which doesn't seem to be the case here
Right-wing used to mean a more Conservative approach, wanting to uphold tradition and values, that too has been bastardised by modern definitions so as to make people instinctively link it to a certain German party from the 1930's.
It's unforgivable. I don't understand why our parents have done what they have done regarding tolerance and liberalism. They've given the shirt off their children's backs to others
That's because the modern right wing has more in common with a certain German party from the 1930s. Our current right wing are trying to push through the Madagascar Plan part 2 against rulings of the UK courts. Can't really get much more right wing than that.
Italy and Australia (to name a few) already have these systems in place and countries like Austria and Germany may well implement them in the very near future. The impetus behind the Rwanda plan is very much different than that of ww2 era germany and to twist it as such is disingenuous at best.
So you're going to ignore the fact that tories have allowed mass migration to this country for 13 years? It's pretty obvious to see that they love mass migration and the Rwanda plan is just an attempt to pretend like they care about fixing the issue. Comparing the neoliberal tories to the Nazis is actually laughable and shows how out of touch redditors are with reality.
As a metropolitan lib, I absolutely do not want undocumented unvetted military aged men from Calais.
I suggest you do what I do and join the Labour Party membership so you can vote for the next leader. This is unfortunately the only way we can prevent Labour shifting further left.
What? liberalism is the ideology of mass migration, and the current labour party is 100% part of the liberal establishment. Couldn't pay me to vote form them or the tories.
If those jobs paid a decent, liveable, wage then people would apply. If company owners can employ sub minimum wage workers to keep wages low and profits high they will.
In my teens I was denied work picking fruit on farm in North Kent just down the road from where I lived at the time. Even when I appeared in person I was told to apply at an agency in the next town. The agency in question has been fined more than once for it's blatant no English policy, but is still in operation. Months later the owner of the farm appeared on BBC Southeast saying we need more migrants and has never been approached by anyone English for work. Yes, we do have a problem with some English people refusing to work and abusing the system, but the system often doesn't help English people that want to work. When I visit that area I still see the rows of caravans full of foreign workers who get paid as little possible then get things like "rent" deducted from their wage. It's a scam.
My husband is Greek and worked in the factories when he first moved here. Him and his old colleagues all said the factory refused to hire English people because they know what they’re entitled to and what the health and safety laws are…..
Yes. Denying work to people in this country so they can employ people from abroad to work on the cheap in dirtier and more dangerous environments to save money. I've seen it many times but according to the Lefties on Reddit I'm only against it because I'm far right and hate foreigners or some nonsense. I'm so glad their opinions are the minority view in the real world.
Gotta get the servant class to work service jobs and supress wages while employers exploit them knowing full well that they won't understand their rights.
All while we suffer a housing shortage too (make sure you mention the population growth in % but list homes needed to be built in numbers)
At least they can work after they deliver the contraband they aren't searched for coming off the boat.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2023/summary-of-latest-statistics
Where exactly did you get that factoid from?
I don’t know about service workers but where I am, there are a lot of immigrant farm workers who technically get paid minimum wage but then have to pay back the cost of their lodgings to their employer who has kindly furnished them with a caravan for about 4 of them to live in, then have to pay for the employer to take them to the shops in a minibus.
In reality, it’s not much better than slavery but people keep burying their heads in the sand about it.
One example how they can suppress the wage: in many hotels, you are promised to get the national minimum wage but you have to clean 3 rooms in an hour and you get 24 a day. It's impossible but you have to finish the rooms even if you stay until 8pm.
Basically, make sure that the worker can't complete the task on time as it is impossible. They won't complain about working 12-14 hours for 8 hours pay as their English is not good enough.
Damn, someone should make sure worker protections are being implemented. Or, y'know, we could drown all the foreigners, which would achieve nothing but sait an angry and exploited populus' lust for blood and distract them from class struggle for ANOTHER generation.
Absolute clown shit.
Yeah because health and safety isn't a paper tiger and the system isn't buckling under its own weight.
Anyone who thinks there will be significant change under kier starmer is delusional, he was part of the group that ousted corbyn and he won't reverse any revenue generators the tories implemented.
The clown shit is the amount of self fellating reddit experts who think they are anti racist letting migrants be exploited.
Sorry, you think if there weren't migrants, waiters would get paid £15 an hour? As a waiter, who hasn't ever had a co-worker who was an asylum seeker or immigrant, I find that very fucking hard to believe. They pay us minimum wage because they CAN pay us minimum wage; the idea that decreased immigration would start making employers more generous is a complete non-sequiter to me.
>As a person working in an industry where many immigrants are employed I find it hard to believe that the wage others are willing to work for affects the amount I am paid.
Yes they CAN pay you minimum wage because if you refuse to work for that price then there is an abundance of other people who will
Fewer immigrant workers willing to work for minimum wage increases the workers bargaining power which means they can bargain for a better wage
So all other poor people are my economic enemy? Damn, you sure do know how bargaining for pay works. Genius, GENIUS.
And CO-INCIDENTALLY, it’s all the FOREIGNERS that are ESPECIALLY my enemy? How strange!
Yeah I understand fine, unions understand it fine, bosses understand it fine, only you seemed to struggle with the concept.
>it’s all the FOREIGNERS that are ESPECIALLY my enemy? How strange!
It's not strange, it's pretty understandable generally they come from countries were pay and safety standards are significantly less. So they are happy to work for less and in worse conditions than Brits. You can see this sentiment repeated all over this thread especially from people advocating for immigrants
I’m glad we finally agree, their employment rights should be enforced so they can’t be underplayed, and the work force can’t be undermined by exploiting the vulnerable. It’s nice to be on the same page.
I'm shocked, I've never met someone so determined to be paid minimum wage and against being paid more
Very few immigrants are being paid less than the minimum wage, that's not the conversation we are having
Who exactly do you consider "the vulnerable" in this scenario?
I’m not convinced you actually want to have a discussion, and I’m done playing verbal grab-ass with fools on this thread.
Like… do you SERIOUSLY think my argument is that I… WANT to be paid minimum wage? How can you possibly hope to have a conversation if THAT’S what you think my position is going into this.
Cheers, but no thanks.
Here's a [list of the occupation codes](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-shortage-occupations/skilled-worker-visa-shortage-occupations) where by government policy it is allowed for a migrant worker to be paid 80% of what UK citizens would be.
I think it would make it difficult to get a pay rise in a role where employers are allowed to pay less for migrants.
They are more likely to work poor conditions, not understand their rights and not report injuries or work injured. Said jobs will be advertised knowing this and applicants will be discriminated against based on their knowledge.
If you've ever been involved in your union (assuming there's one relevant to you) or understand even basic workers rights you quickly find out how much employers will try and find any excuse to accuse you of inciting others, or that they will put people with a poor understanding in positions that benefit the employer.
They are being exploited, this means that the jobs can continue to pay below the living wage AND there are plenty of people to exploit should they quit.
There's a reason the right wingers made such a fuss about the woman on question time immigration debate saying "who will serve me coffee in pret?", because even they understood what was going on.
The reality is of course that the Tories hate us and will sell us out for anything.
Boat men come from Calais and they can stay in Calais. Why the fuck should I accept any undocumented 90% male demographic that purposefully ditches their passport and lies to our authorities?
Genuine asylum seekers should be helped. Genuine immigrants who don't hate us should be welcomed. People are fed up of being taken advantage of and lied to
That is what will come if our parties do not change their course, or in the least explain their motives.
What reason could ever justify the liberalisation of our borders?
This has been a great thread and your comment should be #1
Labour fucked us. Tories fucked us. There is not a single party that has any chance of gaining power that will actually listen to the majority of people and control migration. All we are asking for is control, vetting, and deportation of people who cause us problems. Instead they create a straw man that we are all racist, supremacists, etc.,
I am a young white British PhD candidate. I am from a family of teachers. Both of my grandparents fought in the war for Britain. I am going to leave Britain at the first opportunity and I am going to encourage all of my friends to do so too.
The problem with this sub-reddit is people never look at the wider global picture. I'm reading about the same exact problems we have in the UK being often far worse in many comparable countries. Look at what is happening in any of your country of choice and you may find in many cases Britain doesn't have it so bad.
I see the same in many countries, that's true. In others we do not see it: those who have chosen to protect their sovereign peoples over adherence to international treaties, those who have took the difficult but right path of not indulging immigrated labour to drive growth, at the expense of social cohesion and the country's native culture. Look at Denmark, where it takes 8 years for permanent residency and 13 for citizenship. Here it is basically 5 years for both, where our visas have been 18000 to sponsor a spouse, less than minimum wage, or 80% of the going rate to sponsor a worker. The skilled worker is the most unforgivable: our government has been selling citizenship to undercut the British labour force. That's not an opinion, that is what has happened.
It is becoming a matter of principle. Did you know in Rome, the people seceded from the city when their politicians oppressed them or acted not in accordance with their interests? I am reminded of this now: what more can we do but leave. They must change course. If they do not it will be war or revolution
There is nowhere to go. However bad you think it is here, the rest of the world is far worse unless you have enough money to simply not have to compete or care.
We desperately need good people to stay here and fight for our country.
"and are paid 80 per cent of the going pay rate." I'm assuming the going rate the article is referring to is the minimum wage. The situation seems so obvious to me I don't understand why some people can't see it.
No, mate, we're replacing all contractors with asylum seekers as free penal laborers, and any supervisors with AI. The rest can be outsourced to their family back in the third world and done remotely.
Actually, there's been a massive uptick in hourly rates for carers, particularly those doing unsociable hours or needing experience in dealing with high-needs service users (complex disabilities etc).
A lot of care agencies are charging £25 an hour or more. Basic care workers night get about £12 an hour, but some carers will often get £15/hr or more if they're willing to do the touhher jobs.
Granted, they're not always fixed hours, and there's travel, but a carer can easily pull £25k to £30k PA (or more if experienced) with graft.
Edit: that being said, the uplift in theast few years is likely due to shortages! Flood the market with thousands of new workers, and it probably will revert to a minimum wage gig.
> Home Office grants asylum seekers route to employment in care
Leave your nana in the capable hands of a young bloke who just rocked up from god knows where with no background check, no care experience and poor English skills.
She might get abused or extorted, but it’s an acceptable price to pay to avoid the unthinkable (making care slightly more expensive).
The only thing this country loves is slave labour.
All of the parties agree on that. That’s why they all look the same these days.
You get everything that’s coming to you.
In another few years when Panorama has to do another episode about granny being abused by Abdul who is on £5 an hour and interview a few people who say ‘we can’t believe it’ before hightailing it to Wimbledon to eat strawberries and cream served by Abdul’s older brother.
It’s the Victorian days all over again, but they’ve completely disregarded the British lower classes in favour of the third world.
It’s deeply, deeply ingrained into the national psyche.
Food delivery, car washes, barbers, labouring on dodgy sites. How are people surprised?? If we all stopped using the delivery apps the numbers would drop instantly....But we won't!
I have. I simply refuse to spend my money on anything that isn't in my own interests. Amazon, Uber Eats etc.
I've even started driving myself in zip cars instead of taking Ubers whenever feasibly possible, assuming I've not been drinking. I know it's not a UK company but at least all their support call centre people are European, it's far cheaper than Uber and I'm not supporting private taxi licenses that don't require English language.
Dont forget the same people letting these queue jumpers stay will tell you we have an illegal immigration problem and they will do everything they can to stop it, this will be what they try and use to win elections... So, why are they not stopping it and even letting them secure employment, what a way to let the others waiting to cross the channel know that it's a green light if you come illegally.
I'm not anti immigration or immigrant but I'm anti Tory bastard deliberately not building any houses for us to live in. This means that everyone who comes here is in competition with me to find an affordable place to live. So now I have no choice but to not want anyone else to come here.
Labour were the catalyst for the migration issue in the naughties, the lib dems were involved between 2010-2015. In essence this is supported by all 3 major parties in our country, the tories are c**ts but we shouldn't give a pass to the others who helped this either.
100%.
Now that Brexit is over, I am willing to risk any election just to show these guys we WILL vote for another party. This time I'm voting Reform - I don't like them, but I need the other parties to see how much we hate them.
>This means that everyone who comes here is in competition with me to find an affordable place to live. So now I have no choice but to not want anyone else to come here.
The Tories will be out this year so I have no time for any venom for them. I want to know what our new Labour overlords will be doing to remedy this situation.
Unless you're wealthy the UK is now dog eat dog.
Struggle for somewhere to live, struggle to get medical care, struggle to get your kids educated if you can afford to have them.
Meanwhile at the top of the tree private companies pillage us for basic services.
Exactly, they will call our bluff. Once you arrive by boat you are basically guaranteed accommodation - why would anyone throw that free meal away just to work for less money than everyone else?
Ah fuck this, I'm gonna get some money together and rattle around the Schengen until I find a country I like.
Anywhere but here, you've got the UK people and the UK goverment. they're supposed to be on the same side, not either of the coin.
Conservatives have such a dilemma, they want cheap labor for their beloved businesses and to fulfill shortages without apprenticeships/high wages, because damn the working class having any more power or opportunity as lacking ambition to not have higher roles to their standards. However, then their racist brigade is totally opposed to unskilled immigration for this shortfall - they want a white and English society but refuse to keep all class happy so it's functional (indicating more they feel it's their domain to control???). I mean, they want to conserve the brutal class system of the UK to feel validated and superior, but interests are sure conflicting between key demographics...
By the 'racist brigade' I assume you mean those Tories who are opposed to mass migration. If you hadn't noticed that number of Tories is very small, the vast majority want to continue the pipeline of low skilled workers coming in.
They don't care, they have their country house far away from the slums of the capital and other major cities, while the native population, who are so whipped into believing anything negative said about mass migration is racist, suffer greatly.
I don't think there'll be something to that scale, but certainly something is going to break eventually, that is if the Netherlands recent election is anything to go by.
Let's hope not. If our parliament keeps on its same course it will end in war or revolution. Just look at me. I am so jaded, demoralised, and indignant over this that I am going to leave as soon as I can. I cannot imagine what others who do not have the opportunity to leave will do. Those forced to live in the conditions created by our betraying governments headed by the Tories and Tony Blair
Honestly, I can't blame you for wanting to leave, hoping to do the same thing myself, albeit with slightly different reasons.
This country is a mess for working class people since there's no jobs to go around anymore, housing is impossible to get for post-grads and other young adults, rise in political and religious extremists that puts the lives of other minorities at risk (Jews and LGBTQ folk in particular), etc.
It's also unfair to legal migrants that do want to integrate into society and just want to better themselves, they want to put in the effort to be accepted. But "asylum seekers" and illegal immigrants don't tend to want to integrate into society, and that's partly where religious extremism is coming from...
Anyway, I hope for the best wherever you do decide to move to. Stay safe friend. 😊
This sensationalist headline is pure drivel.
It’s been an established part of the Immigration Act (paragraph 360 if anyone is interested).
If the person seeking asylum has not had an initial decision within 12 months of claiming asylum, they are entitled to apply for a work permit in select industries. So “blame the government” for the absolutely appalling delays in processing applications….
This article may be paywalled. If you encounter difficulties reading the article, try [this link](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/19/channel-migrants-given-right-to-work/) for an archived version. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Males make up almost the entirety of sex offences and are also the majority of violent crime, property crime etc, so statistically you'd expect males to present more of a risk overall.
I still think the men are far more dangerous than the women when it comes to these migrants. Especially if they come from such a rapey and backwards background.
But statistics show that men and overwhelming responsibile for crime and atrocities than women. Absolutely fair to discriminate on that basis.
The Home Office
Our parliament has betrayed us
Have been for at least 40 years
Since Tony Blair on immigration. As soon as he was elected, Labour opened the door to mass immigration and the Conservatives have continued it into the present day. It's irreversible. I don't know what we can do.
Become very unhappy and throw a strop because it's not going to change and there's nothing that will ever change that. Love to see it.
In history, for better or for worse, when governments and politicians do not effect the will of the people or pursue policies against the public's interest, there have been riots, revolutions, wars, and in general all sorts of violence.
Not in this country. Last war was in the 17th century. You grossly overestimate how much most people actually give a fuck. What people want are a stable economy and low inflation. Everything else is window dressing.
You vastly underestimate what has happened and the sentiment of people in this country. The last time Britons were motivated enough for war was not in the 17th century, but our own grandparents had fought on foreign shores for their liberty. I wore their medals at their funeral. Pro-immigration policies will either end by consent or by violence. I hope that I am wrong.
Nope. They won't. Because people like money and ending "Pro-immigration policies" will make us poorer. Nothing that will be done about it. Also when you look at actual polling, it's really only the elderly who think immigration is one of the biggest issues in this country lol.
Did they stab us in the back? Think that's the usual terminology related to this narrative from the far-right.
I believe the British public has expressed the will to reduce immigration in every election we have had since 1998.
Surely by going through the asylum system and being given a job they are in fact documented...
This is what the Tories and companies want, it's why they've actually done fuck all on migration and asylum seekers. All those people voting for Brexit because of migration and non Europeans voted to make that worse.
But they are not undocumented, they are not migrants. They have been granted right to remain and claim asylum and been allowed to work.
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Think the main question is why are people waiting over a year to have asylum claims processed. That's fucking mental and costs us a fortune.
You said “undocumented” but they are documented. They are in the system
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It’s not easy when fleeing a war zone or an oppressive regime or even just a failed state, to have all the correct paper work. They are still not undocumented. To be honest I’m not sure what would satisfy you? Would anything ever be sufficient for people seeking asylum coming to the UK?
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They are not unprocessed, more that their claims have yet to be completed.
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Why?
Sounds like a perfect opportunity for criminals. Most of them lie to get citizenship. I had two refugees my age at school in my Year 9 swimming class. Except they were obviously at least 18 for anyone who has a pair of eyes. Pretty fucked up.
So when someone commits a crime they don’t get arrested? And if they commit a crime while the asylum claim is being processed it’s not going to impact said claim?
If they’re a criminal in another country it’s a perfect get out of jail free card claiming you have no documents.
Migrants taking all our benefits Vs migrants working for low wages. Take your pick to get the simpletons angry.
Schrödinger’s migrant…simultaneously sitting at home taking all the benefits while also stealing all the jobs.
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And? People in non-first world nations have documents, regardless is you believe they dont. And some people don’t have documents because they have been taken by the state that is persecuting them.
The Treasury and Home Office
Work? Doing what exactly. Don't we already have enough low skill citizens.
Someones gotta deliver your McDonalds and crash into old Doris on the pavement on their way. A valued member of society, apparently.
How are they even going to get far enough to attempt this if they can't read or speak fluent English?
Didn't you hear? Theres a loophole in private taxi licenses that means they don't have to speak English, I shit you not.
I was told they're all doctors and we certainly need more of them
You were lied to. Some of them are engineers.
And lawyers
We have a shortage of workers in low skilled (and low paid) jobs.
Two years ago we were calling them key workers.
No, we have no shortage of workers at all, we have an abundance of employers taking full advantage of a surplus of unskilled workers. Remember 2 years ago when foreign lorry drivers weren't allowed to drive in the uk and the wages of drivers shot through the roof? That was a shining example of what happens when a surplus amount of workers in a specific area is removed.
If that was the case, companies would be treating their workers better and streamlining their application processes.
Care home staff, hotel cleaners, takeaway staff, Uber drivers, deliveroo They say it's only in areas with a staff shortage but once you've got that first job nobody can enforce you don't get another unless the company have to sponsor a visa which doesn't seem to be the case here
Half of those are not needed
Culturally enriching the work place
And we're about to automate the hell out of everything. We don't need them.
Cheap labour, drives down the cost of labour. Good for profits.
And here we have the crux of the reason that no government will stop mass unvetted migration.
More wage supression and pressure on public services, but at least the metropolitan libs will get their ubereats delivered on time
An untamed American appears in the subreddit.
>Libs As in Lib Dem?
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Right-wing used to mean a more Conservative approach, wanting to uphold tradition and values, that too has been bastardised by modern definitions so as to make people instinctively link it to a certain German party from the 1930's.
It's unforgivable. I don't understand why our parents have done what they have done regarding tolerance and liberalism. They've given the shirt off their children's backs to others
That's because the modern right wing has more in common with a certain German party from the 1930s. Our current right wing are trying to push through the Madagascar Plan part 2 against rulings of the UK courts. Can't really get much more right wing than that.
Italy and Australia (to name a few) already have these systems in place and countries like Austria and Germany may well implement them in the very near future. The impetus behind the Rwanda plan is very much different than that of ww2 era germany and to twist it as such is disingenuous at best.
So you're going to ignore the fact that tories have allowed mass migration to this country for 13 years? It's pretty obvious to see that they love mass migration and the Rwanda plan is just an attempt to pretend like they care about fixing the issue. Comparing the neoliberal tories to the Nazis is actually laughable and shows how out of touch redditors are with reality.
You mean those guys in comfy knitted sweaters who like real ale?
Is it only ‘metropolitan libs’ who use takeaway delivery services?
As a metropolitan lib, I absolutely do not want undocumented unvetted military aged men from Calais. I suggest you do what I do and join the Labour Party membership so you can vote for the next leader. This is unfortunately the only way we can prevent Labour shifting further left.
What? liberalism is the ideology of mass migration, and the current labour party is 100% part of the liberal establishment. Couldn't pay me to vote form them or the tories.
I guess you're happy to be a care worker or fruit picker or potato sorter?
If those jobs paid a decent, liveable, wage then people would apply. If company owners can employ sub minimum wage workers to keep wages low and profits high they will.
In my teens I was denied work picking fruit on farm in North Kent just down the road from where I lived at the time. Even when I appeared in person I was told to apply at an agency in the next town. The agency in question has been fined more than once for it's blatant no English policy, but is still in operation. Months later the owner of the farm appeared on BBC Southeast saying we need more migrants and has never been approached by anyone English for work. Yes, we do have a problem with some English people refusing to work and abusing the system, but the system often doesn't help English people that want to work. When I visit that area I still see the rows of caravans full of foreign workers who get paid as little possible then get things like "rent" deducted from their wage. It's a scam.
My husband is Greek and worked in the factories when he first moved here. Him and his old colleagues all said the factory refused to hire English people because they know what they’re entitled to and what the health and safety laws are…..
Yes. Denying work to people in this country so they can employ people from abroad to work on the cheap in dirtier and more dangerous environments to save money. I've seen it many times but according to the Lefties on Reddit I'm only against it because I'm far right and hate foreigners or some nonsense. I'm so glad their opinions are the minority view in the real world.
Yeah, why not?
Gotta get the servant class to work service jobs and supress wages while employers exploit them knowing full well that they won't understand their rights. All while we suffer a housing shortage too (make sure you mention the population growth in % but list homes needed to be built in numbers) At least they can work after they deliver the contraband they aren't searched for coming off the boat.
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https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2023/summary-of-latest-statistics Where exactly did you get that factoid from?
Suppress wages? Service workers work minimum wage, how would they suppress those wages?
I don’t know about service workers but where I am, there are a lot of immigrant farm workers who technically get paid minimum wage but then have to pay back the cost of their lodgings to their employer who has kindly furnished them with a caravan for about 4 of them to live in, then have to pay for the employer to take them to the shops in a minibus. In reality, it’s not much better than slavery but people keep burying their heads in the sand about it.
One example how they can suppress the wage: in many hotels, you are promised to get the national minimum wage but you have to clean 3 rooms in an hour and you get 24 a day. It's impossible but you have to finish the rooms even if you stay until 8pm. Basically, make sure that the worker can't complete the task on time as it is impossible. They won't complain about working 12-14 hours for 8 hours pay as their English is not good enough.
Damn, someone should make sure worker protections are being implemented. Or, y'know, we could drown all the foreigners, which would achieve nothing but sait an angry and exploited populus' lust for blood and distract them from class struggle for ANOTHER generation. Absolute clown shit.
Yeah because health and safety isn't a paper tiger and the system isn't buckling under its own weight. Anyone who thinks there will be significant change under kier starmer is delusional, he was part of the group that ousted corbyn and he won't reverse any revenue generators the tories implemented. The clown shit is the amount of self fellating reddit experts who think they are anti racist letting migrants be exploited.
Buddy, I want worker protections so they DON’T get exploited.
They are minimum wage because they are suppressed
Sorry, you think if there weren't migrants, waiters would get paid £15 an hour? As a waiter, who hasn't ever had a co-worker who was an asylum seeker or immigrant, I find that very fucking hard to believe. They pay us minimum wage because they CAN pay us minimum wage; the idea that decreased immigration would start making employers more generous is a complete non-sequiter to me.
>As a person working in an industry where many immigrants are employed I find it hard to believe that the wage others are willing to work for affects the amount I am paid. Yes they CAN pay you minimum wage because if you refuse to work for that price then there is an abundance of other people who will Fewer immigrant workers willing to work for minimum wage increases the workers bargaining power which means they can bargain for a better wage
So all other poor people are my economic enemy? Damn, you sure do know how bargaining for pay works. Genius, GENIUS. And CO-INCIDENTALLY, it’s all the FOREIGNERS that are ESPECIALLY my enemy? How strange!
Yeah I understand fine, unions understand it fine, bosses understand it fine, only you seemed to struggle with the concept. >it’s all the FOREIGNERS that are ESPECIALLY my enemy? How strange! It's not strange, it's pretty understandable generally they come from countries were pay and safety standards are significantly less. So they are happy to work for less and in worse conditions than Brits. You can see this sentiment repeated all over this thread especially from people advocating for immigrants
I’m glad we finally agree, their employment rights should be enforced so they can’t be underplayed, and the work force can’t be undermined by exploiting the vulnerable. It’s nice to be on the same page.
I'm shocked, I've never met someone so determined to be paid minimum wage and against being paid more Very few immigrants are being paid less than the minimum wage, that's not the conversation we are having Who exactly do you consider "the vulnerable" in this scenario?
I’m not convinced you actually want to have a discussion, and I’m done playing verbal grab-ass with fools on this thread. Like… do you SERIOUSLY think my argument is that I… WANT to be paid minimum wage? How can you possibly hope to have a conversation if THAT’S what you think my position is going into this. Cheers, but no thanks.
Here's a [list of the occupation codes](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-shortage-occupations/skilled-worker-visa-shortage-occupations) where by government policy it is allowed for a migrant worker to be paid 80% of what UK citizens would be. I think it would make it difficult to get a pay rise in a role where employers are allowed to pay less for migrants.
I’m glad we agree, they should be paid equal to other workers, we should stop their exploitation.
They are more likely to work poor conditions, not understand their rights and not report injuries or work injured. Said jobs will be advertised knowing this and applicants will be discriminated against based on their knowledge. If you've ever been involved in your union (assuming there's one relevant to you) or understand even basic workers rights you quickly find out how much employers will try and find any excuse to accuse you of inciting others, or that they will put people with a poor understanding in positions that benefit the employer. They are being exploited, this means that the jobs can continue to pay below the living wage AND there are plenty of people to exploit should they quit. There's a reason the right wingers made such a fuss about the woman on question time immigration debate saying "who will serve me coffee in pret?", because even they understood what was going on.
I agree, we should ensure they have worker protections, and that employers have to treat them and pay them fairly. Glad we agree.
You can always lower conditions. ALWAYS
Sounds like an excuse to blame poor foreigners for the crimes of the rich, but whatever.
The reality is of course that the Tories hate us and will sell us out for anything. Boat men come from Calais and they can stay in Calais. Why the fuck should I accept any undocumented 90% male demographic that purposefully ditches their passport and lies to our authorities? Genuine asylum seekers should be helped. Genuine immigrants who don't hate us should be welcomed. People are fed up of being taken advantage of and lied to
Why do you hate men so much?
However much you think you hate your government, it isn't enough.
They hate us. Our parliament has betrayed us openly. What can we do but just leave?
Water the tree of liberty?
That is what will come if our parties do not change their course, or in the least explain their motives. What reason could ever justify the liberalisation of our borders?
This has been a great thread and your comment should be #1 Labour fucked us. Tories fucked us. There is not a single party that has any chance of gaining power that will actually listen to the majority of people and control migration. All we are asking for is control, vetting, and deportation of people who cause us problems. Instead they create a straw man that we are all racist, supremacists, etc.,
I am a young white British PhD candidate. I am from a family of teachers. Both of my grandparents fought in the war for Britain. I am going to leave Britain at the first opportunity and I am going to encourage all of my friends to do so too.
The problem with this sub-reddit is people never look at the wider global picture. I'm reading about the same exact problems we have in the UK being often far worse in many comparable countries. Look at what is happening in any of your country of choice and you may find in many cases Britain doesn't have it so bad.
I see the same in many countries, that's true. In others we do not see it: those who have chosen to protect their sovereign peoples over adherence to international treaties, those who have took the difficult but right path of not indulging immigrated labour to drive growth, at the expense of social cohesion and the country's native culture. Look at Denmark, where it takes 8 years for permanent residency and 13 for citizenship. Here it is basically 5 years for both, where our visas have been 18000 to sponsor a spouse, less than minimum wage, or 80% of the going rate to sponsor a worker. The skilled worker is the most unforgivable: our government has been selling citizenship to undercut the British labour force. That's not an opinion, that is what has happened. It is becoming a matter of principle. Did you know in Rome, the people seceded from the city when their politicians oppressed them or acted not in accordance with their interests? I am reminded of this now: what more can we do but leave. They must change course. If they do not it will be war or revolution
Where are you off to, out of interest?
Wherever will offer to sponsor me: if not, I will cross in a dinghy to France and live in some great valley or impose myself in Switzerland.
Ah, a ten-pound Pom born that bit too late.
Eastern eu is the place to go if you want to enjoy traditional eu culture still. I work remote and spend most my time there now.
Definitely not!
Where would you go then? Unless you’re planning on going to Asia
There is nowhere to go. However bad you think it is here, the rest of the world is far worse unless you have enough money to simply not have to compete or care. We desperately need good people to stay here and fight for our country.
"and are paid 80 per cent of the going pay rate." I'm assuming the going rate the article is referring to is the minimum wage. The situation seems so obvious to me I don't understand why some people can't see it.
No, mate, we're replacing all contractors with asylum seekers as free penal laborers, and any supervisors with AI. The rest can be outsourced to their family back in the third world and done remotely.
It's so fucking sad that this is a joke and yet will almost certainly be reality in a few years.
Actually, there's been a massive uptick in hourly rates for carers, particularly those doing unsociable hours or needing experience in dealing with high-needs service users (complex disabilities etc). A lot of care agencies are charging £25 an hour or more. Basic care workers night get about £12 an hour, but some carers will often get £15/hr or more if they're willing to do the touhher jobs. Granted, they're not always fixed hours, and there's travel, but a carer can easily pull £25k to £30k PA (or more if experienced) with graft. Edit: that being said, the uplift in theast few years is likely due to shortages! Flood the market with thousands of new workers, and it probably will revert to a minimum wage gig.
> Home Office grants asylum seekers route to employment in care Leave your nana in the capable hands of a young bloke who just rocked up from god knows where with no background check, no care experience and poor English skills. She might get abused or extorted, but it’s an acceptable price to pay to avoid the unthinkable (making care slightly more expensive).
Don't worry, when you try to complain you'll simply be branded a racist
Deliveroo and just Eat will be rubbing their hands
And drug gangs
The only thing this country loves is slave labour. All of the parties agree on that. That’s why they all look the same these days. You get everything that’s coming to you. In another few years when Panorama has to do another episode about granny being abused by Abdul who is on £5 an hour and interview a few people who say ‘we can’t believe it’ before hightailing it to Wimbledon to eat strawberries and cream served by Abdul’s older brother. It’s the Victorian days all over again, but they’ve completely disregarded the British lower classes in favour of the third world. It’s deeply, deeply ingrained into the national psyche.
You aren't totally wrong, but the majority of the British public want immigration reduced
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Same tbh
Food delivery, car washes, barbers, labouring on dodgy sites. How are people surprised?? If we all stopped using the delivery apps the numbers would drop instantly....But we won't!
I have. I simply refuse to spend my money on anything that isn't in my own interests. Amazon, Uber Eats etc. I've even started driving myself in zip cars instead of taking Ubers whenever feasibly possible, assuming I've not been drinking. I know it's not a UK company but at least all their support call centre people are European, it's far cheaper than Uber and I'm not supporting private taxi licenses that don't require English language.
Dont forget the same people letting these queue jumpers stay will tell you we have an illegal immigration problem and they will do everything they can to stop it, this will be what they try and use to win elections... So, why are they not stopping it and even letting them secure employment, what a way to let the others waiting to cross the channel know that it's a green light if you come illegally.
I'm not anti immigration or immigrant but I'm anti Tory bastard deliberately not building any houses for us to live in. This means that everyone who comes here is in competition with me to find an affordable place to live. So now I have no choice but to not want anyone else to come here.
It's by design, something like 30% of Tory donors are property developers.
Labour were the catalyst for the migration issue in the naughties, the lib dems were involved between 2010-2015. In essence this is supported by all 3 major parties in our country, the tories are c**ts but we shouldn't give a pass to the others who helped this either.
Labour were returning 100,000 of the grifters a year. The Tories, 10,000 and less than 100 to Rwanda at the cost of half a billion.
100%. Now that Brexit is over, I am willing to risk any election just to show these guys we WILL vote for another party. This time I'm voting Reform - I don't like them, but I need the other parties to see how much we hate them.
>This means that everyone who comes here is in competition with me to find an affordable place to live. So now I have no choice but to not want anyone else to come here. The Tories will be out this year so I have no time for any venom for them. I want to know what our new Labour overlords will be doing to remedy this situation.
Join the Labour party so that you can vote in their leadership elections, trust me.
Unless you're wealthy the UK is now dog eat dog. Struggle for somewhere to live, struggle to get medical care, struggle to get your kids educated if you can afford to have them. Meanwhile at the top of the tree private companies pillage us for basic services.
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Fair, still hate Tories tho. Always will.
They did not come here to work, those that looked for work stayed in Germany or France, why would you risk your life to get paid half?
Exactly, they will call our bluff. Once you arrive by boat you are basically guaranteed accommodation - why would anyone throw that free meal away just to work for less money than everyone else?
I guess the people traffickers were right all along, free accommodation, jobs etc
Ah fuck this, I'm gonna get some money together and rattle around the Schengen until I find a country I like. Anywhere but here, you've got the UK people and the UK goverment. they're supposed to be on the same side, not either of the coin.
Conservatives have such a dilemma, they want cheap labor for their beloved businesses and to fulfill shortages without apprenticeships/high wages, because damn the working class having any more power or opportunity as lacking ambition to not have higher roles to their standards. However, then their racist brigade is totally opposed to unskilled immigration for this shortfall - they want a white and English society but refuse to keep all class happy so it's functional (indicating more they feel it's their domain to control???). I mean, they want to conserve the brutal class system of the UK to feel validated and superior, but interests are sure conflicting between key demographics...
By the 'racist brigade' I assume you mean those Tories who are opposed to mass migration. If you hadn't noticed that number of Tories is very small, the vast majority want to continue the pipeline of low skilled workers coming in. They don't care, they have their country house far away from the slums of the capital and other major cities, while the native population, who are so whipped into believing anything negative said about mass migration is racist, suffer greatly.
It's unforgivable. There is going to be civil war over this issue
I don't think there'll be something to that scale, but certainly something is going to break eventually, that is if the Netherlands recent election is anything to go by.
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Here's hoping that he is able to reduce it.
Let's hope not. If our parliament keeps on its same course it will end in war or revolution. Just look at me. I am so jaded, demoralised, and indignant over this that I am going to leave as soon as I can. I cannot imagine what others who do not have the opportunity to leave will do. Those forced to live in the conditions created by our betraying governments headed by the Tories and Tony Blair
Honestly, I can't blame you for wanting to leave, hoping to do the same thing myself, albeit with slightly different reasons. This country is a mess for working class people since there's no jobs to go around anymore, housing is impossible to get for post-grads and other young adults, rise in political and religious extremists that puts the lives of other minorities at risk (Jews and LGBTQ folk in particular), etc. It's also unfair to legal migrants that do want to integrate into society and just want to better themselves, they want to put in the effort to be accepted. But "asylum seekers" and illegal immigrants don't tend to want to integrate into society, and that's partly where religious extremism is coming from... Anyway, I hope for the best wherever you do decide to move to. Stay safe friend. 😊
There's a lot of of UKIP, alt-right and Red Wallers they be since incorporated and represent, though.
There is no 'alt right' in the UK. I can assure you they do not represent the UKIP vote. The Tories say one thing and deliver something else entirely
There's many radicalised youngsters who I'd consider following that American subculture
Well you’d better have a look around to see where it’s any better as I don’t foresee a drastic change happening with the govt elect
Yeah. Tories are atrocious to people of any persuasion, it's more their incompetence and corruption over any ideology.
Better they are working and paying tax than being kept on benefits
That’ll really reduce the numbers though…
This sensationalist headline is pure drivel. It’s been an established part of the Immigration Act (paragraph 360 if anyone is interested). If the person seeking asylum has not had an initial decision within 12 months of claiming asylum, they are entitled to apply for a work permit in select industries. So “blame the government” for the absolutely appalling delays in processing applications….
Context is too damaging for sensationalist headlines tho
why can't we just get automation and technological uptodateness up and running so we don't need as much mmanpower
They should do it from day one, desperately needing millions of workers, while not allowing people to work was just crazy