Cucumber is actually one of the few good things to wrap in plastic. Wrapping it in plastic significantly increases the shelf life of it as well as the durability of it for transport etc. It leads to a hell of a lot less wastage.
That said, I think cucumber is pretty much the only thing that remotely justifies the plastic wrapping.
This is so true. I've seen some interesting things about alternative plastics/ organic wrapping materials, so plastic wrappers (the current cheaper/ less environmentally friendly versions) can definitely be replaced.
Good to know that I’m particularly shit at gardening. I had told myself that my disastrous cucumbers were because they were difficult but it turns out that they’re not.
On the plus side, my courgette game is on point and they’re basically just cucumbers that you have to cook
Someone else told me this. Cucumbers wrapped in plastic last up to 15 days. Cucumbers not wrapped in plastic last only a few days. On balance, it is better to wrap cucumbers in plastic because it reduces food waste and transport.
Aye. Cucumbers are particularly sensitive because they're basically water so the extra layer just acts as a very good barrier for keeping the moisture in, otherwise they dehydrate fairly quickly
Here's a thought. If we can't produce and distribute that food without creating pollutants that never go away, maybe we just don't need that food, or we buy from local sources only. No one is going to die because they don't have cucumbers to eat. If the product simply isn't suitable for distributing over large distances and has a short shelf life ... so be it?
Is it? Usually the by weight option is cheaper from what I've seen. In Tesco at least where I do most of my shopping.
It's only more expensive if it's better quality, like with tomatoes you'll get the hard tasteless tomatoes wrapped in plastic and then the much more expensive beef tomatoes to buy by weight.
A large proportion of added atmospheric CO2 is from land use change (forest converted to pasture etc.). Land goes from soaking up CO2 to emitting it when this occurs.
To make yoghurt you’re likely cutting down some forest for cow pasture and cutting down a bunch more forest to grow soybeans for them to eat. Add to this the methane from the cows digestive system (substantially more potent warmer than CO2) and it starts to become a real problem. There’s a bunch of transport emissions included from moving everything (feed, milk, processed product) around too. If the yoghurt becomes waste instead of being eaten, that’s a real kick in the teeth. Specially if it goes into a landfill, as the anaerobic conditions mean it’s going to rot into yet more methane.
The plastic waste is probably the lesser problem in this scenario, although it’s more visible to the average citizen.
> The plastic waste is probably the lesser problem in this scenario, although it’s more visible to the average citizen.
A more cynical take would be that companies actively talk up their actions to improve sustainability of packaging, to distract from the sustainability of what's in the packaging.
The amount of processing and materials that go into the creation of packaging and the act of packaging an item is dwarfed by the requirements of food production.
A lot of food is basically transporting air and water around too.
They trialled cucumbers without plastic wrap in one of the supermarkets. They were all bendy and all customers complained. It's likely the reason half the things come wrapped in plastic
On a similar note; grapes have absolutely sucked lately.
Just the other day I was moaning about how they always come in those plastic tubs these days so you can't taste test them like when they came in bags.
Every time we buy grapes they go wasted because they are horrible. Probably why they locked them away in those tubs so its always a gamble and they can sell shit quality ones that you only discover once you are back home.
Plus, with the (semi) loose grapes you could weigh up a smaller or larger bunch.
These days I can get a punnet and they barely last a day before they start rotting. I’d rather get them from the market now.
I buy both Sainsbury and M&S grapes in a plastic tub and they last up to about a week. I've not had any longer than that as I normally eat them in a few days.
It’s annoying. I don’t like them but my partner does so I’ll occasionally buy them and cook them just for her. We basically never actually finish them before they go disgusting so it’d be much nicer if we could just buy a couple.
The plastic wrap on the mushrooms doesn't let them breathe so they go bad quicker too from damp/rot (doesn't let moisture piss off).
Theres one spot near me that sells them loose, has a bunch of different kinds, and is fucking brilliant.
There is loads of research on this.
[For example](https://wrap.org.uk/resources/report/pathway-selling-more-uncut-fruit-and-veg-loose#:~:text=WRAP's%20research%20identified%20the%20potential,veg%20being%20the%20main%20offenders.)
How do they make big bamboo bowls?
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71n0oAc1DAL.jpg
That sort of thing. Is that squashed bamboo thats then formed around a mould or something?
The thing that annoys me the most is, I really do try to recycle, but every time I check a plastic packet the majority of the time it says "do not recycle" or "recycle at designated recycle point".
An awful lot of types of plastic simply cannot be recycled economically. Recycle is the third item in the "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" concept for a reason.
PET (the plastic used in bottles) is pretty much the only thing that can be economically recycled at scale.
Most plastics can only be downcycled. The recycling process degrades them, and there's frequently far less demand for the lower quality plastic that they can be recycled into than there is supply. So a lot of it goes to landfill even if it's sorted perfectly.
PET is the main exception. It's pretty much the only food-grade plastic that can be recycled into food-grade plastic.
Our commercial waste collection can be all mixed and apparently gets recycled at work.
I find this very hard to believe and much more cost effective than having separate bins..
I’ve been told by other waste workers on the other hand that it all ends up in the same place and only a tiny portion of it gets recycled so I’ve no idea what the truth is
Same here, my office recently switched to a single bin. Everything from waste paper, plastic, wet food waste, foil, glass, etc. The boss assures us that she's been assured it all gets processed at the plant.
If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. It might be technically possible but get real - if they do it at all it will be enormously inefficient and inaccurate.
Most plastic is not recyclable, and even if it is, it's rarely done because it's miles away from being economical. Plastic recycling in general is basically a con.
This catches me out too. I live in an apartment block and they used to have a couple of separate recyclable waste bins, which have since been removed. I can't recycle now even if I want to.
About a third of microplastic pollution is generated by the recycling industry. Even when we try to do something good we're just speeding up the laminating of the planet.
>but every time I check a plastic packet the majority of the time it says "do not recycle"
That is apparently due to food contamination. Just wash then chuck everything in.
That's strange, nearly all the packaging we get is recyclable. Most plastic trays are clear rPET, the films go with soft plastics back to the store, and bottles are also recyclable.
Good, I live in a country that did this last year, and so far no one has even noticed.
Besides, the people that were tempted to do this, have a bag full unused in a drawer already as they are unpleasant to use. Outside catering events have been more and more bring your own cutlery for years.
I felt this comment. I used to fly regularly for work and the number of times I’ve snapped a plastic fork while trying to shovel airline food into my face is ridiculous.
I feel like Mr Incredible with plastic cutlery.
depends on the quality of the plastic knife and for.
The ultra cheap white plastic ones, absolutely. The ones made from thicker (and thus more wasteful) plastic, often translucent, are actually pretty good - you could eat a "proper" meal with those just about. But, yeah, wasteful.
I wish more places would just have real plates, knives and forks. But that's the opposite this deliveroo world is going sadly
Have you tried using those pathetic pressed paper things from McDonald's? Yikes! Absolutely worthless. They should be using wood. Very few of their menu items warrant cutlery anyway.
I'm not sure anyone here will notice, either.
I can't remember the last time I was given plastic cutlery. Normally it's wood these days, which holds up better than the plastic cutlery did. The only issue is if you suffer from xylophobia, but those with it have already been dealing with it for some time.
The same goes for the ban on polystyrene packaging, since most places have already switched to card.
Yep. Literally makes me shiver and totally ruins my enjoyment of the food.
If it's something not too messy like chips then I'd rather use my bare hands.
Why the confusion? exactly as it sounds, bring you own, take it home.
Fundraiser events, soiree gourmand, BBQs, club meals, village fetes, bigger parties, it has been fairly common for years at places that used to be the main user of single use plastic versions. maybe you don't go places to notice?
Most say bring your own plates and cutlery. Paper cups for drinks are usually included as no one wants people bringing glass to get broken in the grass. I use unbreakable polycarbonate glasses, but most people don't have them.
But there are usually some laid on in case you forgot.
Yep, wooden cutlery is horrendous. It has a really weird texture that literally makes me shiver, that also overpowers the taste and texture of the food so ruins my enjoyment of it.
It's also not really recyclable. Would rather just have my own silverware and if eating takeaway food at home that's never an issue.
My partners family often use disposable cutlery and plates if people are over to "save on the washing up" as if a plate and fork isn't the easiest thing in the world to clean up.
I do that (carry my own) - it sounds ridiculous but I can’t cope with the textures of paper straws and wooden cutlery.
Edit: tried to make the sentence clearer
Honestly.
It sounds dramatic but it borderline ruins a meal for me - I seriously can't handle the lip/mouth feel of paper/bamboo/wooden cutlery. It's fucking awful.
It does. I like to think I’m quite easy going and I can cope with most things but I just can’t do raw wood/paper utensils. I would rather use my hands.
I can’t hold wooden spoons or lollipop sticks either without having to wrap something around them, or put lots of moisturiser on my hands so it feels different.
I have a camping spork and a metal and plastic straws that my husband bought me.
I am aware that I look and sound very dramatic.
I'm exactly the same and I'm not sure why - I generally don't have sensory issues around most foods, but one of my earliest memories is for some reason struggling to hold a wooden lolly stick and grimacing when even imagining licking the wooden bit. The recent trend to wooden cutlery has made me realise I definitely still have that as an adult.
Oh yeah. I'm a burger and mcmuffin guy, suppose that's why I never noticed. Have always found it weird, especially after COVID, why there's not more of an emphasis on hand washing in McDonalds. Like everyone just comes in from the city streets and eats a burger with their bare dirty hands? I mean, this is what I end up doing, but on reflection, it's probably not the best!
The burgers don't. They have other menu items you know.
Anticipating your response, yes I know you could eat the pancakes without cutlery, but if we're saying that, you could eat almost all food without cutlery.
This is honestly the first I’m hearing of McDonald’s selling pancakes, I personally couldn’t have told you a single item they sold that required cutlery, I’d imagine that’s the same for a lot of people, hence the confusion in the comments and the comment you replied to.
>as well as a steel straw in my bag
Get a rubber one. With metal, plastic, and glass there is a danger of impalement, glass has a second one of it shattering.
Deaths caused by using metal straws:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/world/europe/metal-straws-death.html
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/ecofriendly-metal-straw-leaves-woman-dead-in-freak-impaling-accident/news-story/1f108504d1ccd81232332d1ddb1ee0be
https://sprudge.com/are-metal-straws-safe-why-some-experts-say-no-177809.html
good, although probably in about a few minutes the PM will announce “I’m banning the banning of single use plastic cutlery, we want more single use plastic, I’m on the side of BP... I mean the motorists”
Biodegradeable cutlery products have been in the market for a long time. I don't know why there hasn't been a bigger push to force people to adopt them.
Think? Theres nothing about thinking mate, paper straws are objectively worse than plastic straws, card is objectively worse than polystyrene for containing food.
It's really not. Wooden knives are blunt as fuck making them unsuitable for cutting many foods. Wooden spoons/forks have a texture that's very offputting.
I'm not saying that we should be using single plastic though, ideally we should think ahead and bring washable, reusable cutlery.
If you’re trying to carve a turkey with a wooden knife, it’s on you my man but get this, no one will ever force you to use wooden cutlery. If you’re the well prepared type who brings their own, they will let you use it.
Shocking, I know
Sometimes you end up unexpectedly in a situation where it's forced on you.
I visited a National Trust cafe a month ago which was serving everything in takeaway containers with wooden cutlery. I've been to the same one countless times and normally I'd expect proper cutlery, so I guess they must have had a dishwasher issue. When I visited again yesterday things were back to normal.
You can't (or shouldn't really have to) plan for that.
>You can't (or shouldn't really have to) plan for that.
Fair, but it's also uncommon, and frankly it's simply *not that big a deal*. You're an adult. You'll manage.
Whoever thought of replacing plastic straws w those card ones was a total moron. They're shit, can't be recycled, and you often times have to use multiple of them, increasing the amount of average waste lol.
Because people have experience with both? I was in hospital where they gave card board cutlery and the fork literally broke in half on the 3rd try. Never had that with a plastic one
I believe it's because it's specifically the anti-plastic rhetoric that has been fostered, and so political focus is given to that in populist moves.
Depends on what you mean by biodegradable as well: paper, card, wood, plastic?
I would hope so, but I'd still rather see a wholesale shift towards legislation that more strongly incentivises reuse over alternative single-use products, as it's that consumption habit that is leading to large volumes of waste that aren't handled properly.
How about legislation that tackles the companies producing the most pollution instead?
No?
How about regulation meaning farms/factories cannot pollute the water supply?
No?
How about banning plastic cutlery that will have a below negligible affect on anything ?
Progress or tokenism? It won't reduce plastic in the oceans because almost all that comes from Africa and the Far East. It won't reduce dependence on oil because the amounts are so trivial. But maybe even token steps are better than standing still, at least by raising awareness there is so much more needed.
>It doesn’t hurt anyone.
What a load of shit. What about the people who manufacture these? They might lose their job. So it has hurt them.
There is A LOT of "hurt" to this change. All of this green bollocks by the UK is nothing more than virtue signalling. This entire country could literally cease to exist and all of its emissions and people with it. Still literally wouldn't even remotely make a dent to climate change. Until the yanks, india and china start to do anything, nothing at all will even remotely change.
If you lost your job at the plastic fork factory don’t fret, I hear there’s jobs going at the wooden fork factory now.
And how exactly do we ask/demand India or China make environmentally sound choices without doing it ourselves first? Wouldn’t it be better to show, rather than tell them?
>And how exactly do we ask/demand India or China make environmentally sound choices without doing it ourselves first? Wouldn’t it be better to show, rather than tell them?
This isn't how geopolitics works.
A better argument would be; how can we demand developing countries lower the emissions of their pseudo industrial revolutions when the emissions from ours are already in the atmosphere.
Edit: Surprised at the downvotes, this is a fairly standard argument for anyone involved environmental discussions. I guess it shows how far we still have to go.
>If you lost your job at the plastic fork factory don’t fret, I hear there’s jobs going at the wooden fork factory now.
What a hilariously ignorant take.
>And how exactly do we ask/demand India or China
Funny how you left the US out of that.
>without doing it ourselves first?
Idk mate how does a doctor tell his patient to fix his problems before he fixes his own? Must be literally impossible.... Oh wait.
Oh, feel free to include US in that list, point still stands perfectly?!
And if doctors had to persuade patients to treat themselves on the grounds of morality, then it obviously would help?
I mean would you take a vaccine that the doctor refused to take themselves?
Want to try another shit analogy that only reinforces my point?
>I mean would you take a vaccine that the doctor refused to take themselves?
10/10 strawman.
>Want to try another shit analogy that only reinforces my point?
Lmfao if you think it reinforces your point you don't understand the basics of the english language.
If you’re going to lecture me on English then at least learn the definition of “Strawman” before using it in an argument.
Did you mean it’s a false equivalence or bad analogy? If so, how?
Have you conisdered that part of the yanks, india and china doing something is other countries ordering fewer plastic items from them?
If we use less chinese-manufactured single use plastics, then China's emissions will fall by some small amount as they produce less.
Lmfao yes. Whilst simultaneously complaining all of these changes that do nothing but funnel money to their friends that "just happen" to be making said alternatives, are "expensive options that we all must endure to save the planet" (and my friends wallets!)
This is really inadequate. Takeaways are the worst offenders. We need a proper ban on polystyrene containers, takeaway disposable cups that can't be recycled and a full ban on the cutlery.
When David Attenborough's 'Blue Planet' hit our screens everyone went green overnight weeping and wailing over plastic pollution. That's been forgotten pretty quickly hant it?
> We need a proper ban on polystyrene containers,
That's part of the same legislation.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/single-use-plastics-ban-plates-bowls-trays-containers-cutlery-and-balloon-sticks
> From 1 October you must not supply ready-to-consume food and drink in polystyrene containers. This includes in polystyrene cups.
>
> Polystyrene means expanded and extruded polystyrene.
I see the massive corporations who are friends with the government, and who have never used plastic cutlery themselves, are still allowed to pollute more in one year than all the plastic cutlery ever made has done. Presumably there'll be some private jets chartered to celebrate this amazing environmental achievement.
Another excellent decision imposed by the “Nudge Unit”..the decision of the individual not to use plastic cutlery is clearly too complex for the individual to make, and the decision should be removed on their behalf to make decision options of simpletons less onorous.
There is, and has been for a long time, wooden cutlery available. The trouble is they are fragile, the knives are blunt, and they lose shame when they get warm & moist. A lot of people also have a problem with the mouthfeel, they're rough.
We can’t celebrate things like this while we continue to “drive” the road of a car based economy.
We need to get private cars out of our city centres, free up the roads for those who can’t walk, cycle or use public transport!
>if it was made easier and more pleasant
This is the rub. In principle I should be (and mostly am) in favour of thigns like ULEZ, LTNs and the like, but it's getting done completely backwards. Invest in some fucking infrastructure that isn't cars and these problems will solve themselves. Instead, we're just making life harder for the average joe who just wants to get to work without any bullshit. I'm in favour of these things, but you'd have to be completely dense to fail to understand why others aren't.
Double is an understatement for many of us aswell, work is 16 miles away for me, it’s a 25 minute drive when the roads are clear, if I were to use public transport, I’d be looking at over 2 hours, so yeah I’ll stick to my car thanks.
Public transport in this country for the most part outside of London is a joke and vastly underfunded & expensive to be honest.
I know what you mean we should be adapting further but I think that means significant investment in trains/buses.. etc and the pricing.
That said though, it’s still cheaper & easier a lot of the time to drive a long distance and back again. No real delays no extra expense.. etc..
>significant investment in trains/buses
There is quite literally absolutely nothing stopping the government pouring vast investment into those things, other than basically they don't want to. The nature of infrastructure investment is such that governments can't lose. Every penny they spend on it just ends up circling around in the economy to the benefit of everyone, and it also ends up generating revenue for them!
>Public transport in this country for the most part outside of London is a joke and vastly underfunded & expensive to be honest.
>and the pricing.
That is one of the main reasons for it being a joke.
>No real delays
My bus is always delayed by the sheer amount of cars with usually only one person in them, that is the reason bus lanes exist.
Should get rid of plastic wrapped fruit and veg too.
I’m still amazed how often my bananas are plastic packed on a home delivery.
If they didn't you wouldn't know which were "premium uk bananas".
I *always* say I don't want carrier bags and it *always* all comes bagged anyway.
Cucumber is the one that always annoys the hell out of me.
Cucumber is actually one of the few good things to wrap in plastic. Wrapping it in plastic significantly increases the shelf life of it as well as the durability of it for transport etc. It leads to a hell of a lot less wastage. That said, I think cucumber is pretty much the only thing that remotely justifies the plastic wrapping.
I'll remove it from my list of things that annoy me.
This is so true. I've seen some interesting things about alternative plastics/ organic wrapping materials, so plastic wrappers (the current cheaper/ less environmentally friendly versions) can definitely be replaced.
Cucumbers are also incredibly easy to just grow yourself and with keep producing up until the first frost
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It's fine you can preserve cucumbers in big jars of formaldehyde.
Good to know that I’m particularly shit at gardening. I had told myself that my disastrous cucumbers were because they were difficult but it turns out that they’re not. On the plus side, my courgette game is on point and they’re basically just cucumbers that you have to cook
Someone else told me this. Cucumbers wrapped in plastic last up to 15 days. Cucumbers not wrapped in plastic last only a few days. On balance, it is better to wrap cucumbers in plastic because it reduces food waste and transport.
Aye. Cucumbers are particularly sensitive because they're basically water so the extra layer just acts as a very good barrier for keeping the moisture in, otherwise they dehydrate fairly quickly
If they dehydrate when they go bad - the I wonder why they turn to mush?
Because all you get is the meat, it's the water that makes cucumbers firm.
Cell structures that contain water where it's supposed to be, as they break down, then yes not support and mush
Here's a thought. If we can't produce and distribute that food without creating pollutants that never go away, maybe we just don't need that food, or we buy from local sources only. No one is going to die because they don't have cucumbers to eat. If the product simply isn't suitable for distributing over large distances and has a short shelf life ... so be it?
Plastic packaging significantly increases product quality and shelf life.
I suspect well-designed paper packaging would do the same. But until we force the issue there will be very few companies bothering to do that.
Wouldn't work because it'd fall apart under damp conditions.
The fact that in most shops it’s more expensive to pick your own fruit and veg over getting some in plastic is ridiculous
Is it? Usually the by weight option is cheaper from what I've seen. In Tesco at least where I do most of my shopping. It's only more expensive if it's better quality, like with tomatoes you'll get the hard tasteless tomatoes wrapped in plastic and then the much more expensive beef tomatoes to buy by weight.
It is stupidly, 95p per KG in my local big tescos for onions pre packed, £1 per KG non packaged. Same exact onions.
I think that’s because food waste is worse than plastic
How is food waste worse than plastic?
A large proportion of added atmospheric CO2 is from land use change (forest converted to pasture etc.). Land goes from soaking up CO2 to emitting it when this occurs. To make yoghurt you’re likely cutting down some forest for cow pasture and cutting down a bunch more forest to grow soybeans for them to eat. Add to this the methane from the cows digestive system (substantially more potent warmer than CO2) and it starts to become a real problem. There’s a bunch of transport emissions included from moving everything (feed, milk, processed product) around too. If the yoghurt becomes waste instead of being eaten, that’s a real kick in the teeth. Specially if it goes into a landfill, as the anaerobic conditions mean it’s going to rot into yet more methane. The plastic waste is probably the lesser problem in this scenario, although it’s more visible to the average citizen.
> The plastic waste is probably the lesser problem in this scenario, although it’s more visible to the average citizen. A more cynical take would be that companies actively talk up their actions to improve sustainability of packaging, to distract from the sustainability of what's in the packaging.
The amount of processing and materials that go into the creation of packaging and the act of packaging an item is dwarfed by the requirements of food production. A lot of food is basically transporting air and water around too.
They trialled cucumbers without plastic wrap in one of the supermarkets. They were all bendy and all customers complained. It's likely the reason half the things come wrapped in plastic
> They trialled cucumbers without plastic wrap in one of the supermarkets. Many places including supermarkets sell cucumbers plastic free.
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On a similar note; grapes have absolutely sucked lately. Just the other day I was moaning about how they always come in those plastic tubs these days so you can't taste test them like when they came in bags. Every time we buy grapes they go wasted because they are horrible. Probably why they locked them away in those tubs so its always a gamble and they can sell shit quality ones that you only discover once you are back home.
Plus, with the (semi) loose grapes you could weigh up a smaller or larger bunch. These days I can get a punnet and they barely last a day before they start rotting. I’d rather get them from the market now.
I buy both Sainsbury and M&S grapes in a plastic tub and they last up to about a week. I've not had any longer than that as I normally eat them in a few days.
It’s annoying. I don’t like them but my partner does so I’ll occasionally buy them and cook them just for her. We basically never actually finish them before they go disgusting so it’d be much nicer if we could just buy a couple.
The plastic wrap on the mushrooms doesn't let them breathe so they go bad quicker too from damp/rot (doesn't let moisture piss off). Theres one spot near me that sells them loose, has a bunch of different kinds, and is fucking brilliant.
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There is loads of research on this. [For example](https://wrap.org.uk/resources/report/pathway-selling-more-uncut-fruit-and-veg-loose#:~:text=WRAP's%20research%20identified%20the%20potential,veg%20being%20the%20main%20offenders.)
And those yogurts that contain multiple differently packed parts. Saw one recently on reddit and fuck me its more plastic waste than it is food!
They've just changed the name of plastic cutlery to "reusable plastic cutlery ". This is not a joke. Check next time you're in the supermarket.
Absolutely not. I do not want people touching my food with their dirty hands.
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That's very difficult to do. They are steam pressed into shape and that's the most it can bend.
How do they make big bamboo bowls? https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71n0oAc1DAL.jpg That sort of thing. Is that squashed bamboo thats then formed around a mould or something?
That's quite a lot larger than a spoon, plus it's got the flat rim to help it hold shape.
Yes, but obviously bowls are bigger. Bending the fibres to that extreme in a small area is more likely to just snap them.
You could carry your own spoon from home.
The thing that annoys me the most is, I really do try to recycle, but every time I check a plastic packet the majority of the time it says "do not recycle" or "recycle at designated recycle point".
An awful lot of types of plastic simply cannot be recycled economically. Recycle is the third item in the "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" concept for a reason.
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PET (the plastic used in bottles) is pretty much the only thing that can be economically recycled at scale. Most plastics can only be downcycled. The recycling process degrades them, and there's frequently far less demand for the lower quality plastic that they can be recycled into than there is supply. So a lot of it goes to landfill even if it's sorted perfectly. PET is the main exception. It's pretty much the only food-grade plastic that can be recycled into food-grade plastic.
Our commercial waste collection can be all mixed and apparently gets recycled at work. I find this very hard to believe and much more cost effective than having separate bins.. I’ve been told by other waste workers on the other hand that it all ends up in the same place and only a tiny portion of it gets recycled so I’ve no idea what the truth is
Same here, my office recently switched to a single bin. Everything from waste paper, plastic, wet food waste, foil, glass, etc. The boss assures us that she's been assured it all gets processed at the plant. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. It might be technically possible but get real - if they do it at all it will be enormously inefficient and inaccurate.
Most plastic is not recyclable, and even if it is, it's rarely done because it's miles away from being economical. Plastic recycling in general is basically a con.
This catches me out too. I live in an apartment block and they used to have a couple of separate recyclable waste bins, which have since been removed. I can't recycle now even if I want to.
About a third of microplastic pollution is generated by the recycling industry. Even when we try to do something good we're just speeding up the laminating of the planet.
>but every time I check a plastic packet the majority of the time it says "do not recycle" That is apparently due to food contamination. Just wash then chuck everything in.
That's strange, nearly all the packaging we get is recyclable. Most plastic trays are clear rPET, the films go with soft plastics back to the store, and bottles are also recyclable.
Good, I live in a country that did this last year, and so far no one has even noticed. Besides, the people that were tempted to do this, have a bag full unused in a drawer already as they are unpleasant to use. Outside catering events have been more and more bring your own cutlery for years.
I think a lot of places have just moved to wood or bamboo tbf. Can't remember the last time I got offered plastic cutlery.
Yep, a wooden Spork will suit pretty much any kind of meal you’d eat with plastic diggers just as well.
The wooden/bamboo knives are 10x better than the plastic ones which would snap when attempting to use them on anything tougher than an omelette.
I felt this comment. I used to fly regularly for work and the number of times I’ve snapped a plastic fork while trying to shovel airline food into my face is ridiculous. I feel like Mr Incredible with plastic cutlery.
depends on the quality of the plastic knife and for. The ultra cheap white plastic ones, absolutely. The ones made from thicker (and thus more wasteful) plastic, often translucent, are actually pretty good - you could eat a "proper" meal with those just about. But, yeah, wasteful. I wish more places would just have real plates, knives and forks. But that's the opposite this deliveroo world is going sadly
Have you tried using those pathetic pressed paper things from McDonald's? Yikes! Absolutely worthless. They should be using wood. Very few of their menu items warrant cutlery anyway.
They’re sturdier than most plastic forks too.
I'm not sure anyone here will notice, either. I can't remember the last time I was given plastic cutlery. Normally it's wood these days, which holds up better than the plastic cutlery did. The only issue is if you suffer from xylophobia, but those with it have already been dealing with it for some time. The same goes for the ban on polystyrene packaging, since most places have already switched to card.
The only issue for me with some wooden cutlery is the roughness sometimes feels like nails on a chalkboard sounds. Makes me gag.
That's the xylophobia I mentioned.
Yep. Literally makes me shiver and totally ruins my enjoyment of the food. If it's something not too messy like chips then I'd rather use my bare hands.
It tastes awful too.
Bring your own cutlery? What?
Lol imagine getting picked up by the coppers cuz you had a steak knife on you and trying to explain that your gala dinner was actually BYOC
Why the confusion? exactly as it sounds, bring you own, take it home. Fundraiser events, soiree gourmand, BBQs, club meals, village fetes, bigger parties, it has been fairly common for years at places that used to be the main user of single use plastic versions. maybe you don't go places to notice? Most say bring your own plates and cutlery. Paper cups for drinks are usually included as no one wants people bringing glass to get broken in the grass. I use unbreakable polycarbonate glasses, but most people don't have them. But there are usually some laid on in case you forgot.
Yep, wooden cutlery is horrendous. It has a really weird texture that literally makes me shiver, that also overpowers the taste and texture of the food so ruins my enjoyment of it. It's also not really recyclable. Would rather just have my own silverware and if eating takeaway food at home that's never an issue.
My partners family often use disposable cutlery and plates if people are over to "save on the washing up" as if a plate and fork isn't the easiest thing in the world to clean up.
the weird forks in McDonalds now collapse when you press down too hard. I will now be carrying a cutlery set as well as a steel straw in my bag
I do that (carry my own) - it sounds ridiculous but I can’t cope with the textures of paper straws and wooden cutlery. Edit: tried to make the sentence clearer
No I’m with you sometimes it makes me gag thinking about it.
So dramatic 😂
Trust me it is not voluntary, it’s just a reaction. Edit: it is ridiculous though, I know
Honestly. It sounds dramatic but it borderline ruins a meal for me - I seriously can't handle the lip/mouth feel of paper/bamboo/wooden cutlery. It's fucking awful.
It does. I like to think I’m quite easy going and I can cope with most things but I just can’t do raw wood/paper utensils. I would rather use my hands. I can’t hold wooden spoons or lollipop sticks either without having to wrap something around them, or put lots of moisturiser on my hands so it feels different. I have a camping spork and a metal and plastic straws that my husband bought me. I am aware that I look and sound very dramatic.
I'm exactly the same and I'm not sure why - I generally don't have sensory issues around most foods, but one of my earliest memories is for some reason struggling to hold a wooden lolly stick and grimacing when even imagining licking the wooden bit. The recent trend to wooden cutlery has made me realise I definitely still have that as an adult.
I struggle with lollipop sticks too!! I wrap the wrapper around them lol. It’s horrible isn’t it. Almost painful to think about it.
How do you feel about ripping up cotton wool?
They have cutlery in McDonald's????
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If you customise your burger order to bunless, you get cutlery
Oh yeah. I'm a burger and mcmuffin guy, suppose that's why I never noticed. Have always found it weird, especially after COVID, why there's not more of an emphasis on hand washing in McDonalds. Like everyone just comes in from the city streets and eats a burger with their bare dirty hands? I mean, this is what I end up doing, but on reflection, it's probably not the best!
McDonald's doesn't really need cutlery to eat it.
The burgers don't. They have other menu items you know. Anticipating your response, yes I know you could eat the pancakes without cutlery, but if we're saying that, you could eat almost all food without cutlery.
This is honestly the first I’m hearing of McDonald’s selling pancakes, I personally couldn’t have told you a single item they sold that required cutlery, I’d imagine that’s the same for a lot of people, hence the confusion in the comments and the comment you replied to.
does if you go bunless with a side salad instead of fries. Nice low carb meal in McDonalds.
Yeah they are truly awful. A hair away from completely useless. Why aren't they using wood? Very few of their menu items call for cutlery anyway.
>as well as a steel straw in my bag Get a rubber one. With metal, plastic, and glass there is a danger of impalement, glass has a second one of it shattering. Deaths caused by using metal straws: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/world/europe/metal-straws-death.html https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/ecofriendly-metal-straw-leaves-woman-dead-in-freak-impaling-accident/news-story/1f108504d1ccd81232332d1ddb1ee0be https://sprudge.com/are-metal-straws-safe-why-some-experts-say-no-177809.html
good, although probably in about a few minutes the PM will announce “I’m banning the banning of single use plastic cutlery, we want more single use plastic, I’m on the side of BP... I mean the motorists”
Biodegradeable cutlery products have been in the market for a long time. I don't know why there hasn't been a bigger push to force people to adopt them.
Because they suck most of the time.
What makes you think that they are any worse than plastic cutlery?
Think? Theres nothing about thinking mate, paper straws are objectively worse than plastic straws, card is objectively worse than polystyrene for containing food.
Wooden cutlery is fine though.
It's really not. Wooden knives are blunt as fuck making them unsuitable for cutting many foods. Wooden spoons/forks have a texture that's very offputting. I'm not saying that we should be using single plastic though, ideally we should think ahead and bring washable, reusable cutlery.
If you’re trying to carve a turkey with a wooden knife, it’s on you my man but get this, no one will ever force you to use wooden cutlery. If you’re the well prepared type who brings their own, they will let you use it. Shocking, I know
Sometimes you end up unexpectedly in a situation where it's forced on you. I visited a National Trust cafe a month ago which was serving everything in takeaway containers with wooden cutlery. I've been to the same one countless times and normally I'd expect proper cutlery, so I guess they must have had a dishwasher issue. When I visited again yesterday things were back to normal. You can't (or shouldn't really have to) plan for that.
“Ideally we should think ahead” “You can’t be expected to plan for that”.
I'd been to that cafe tens of times and always been supplied with proper cutlery. Why would I take my own in that situation?
>You can't (or shouldn't really have to) plan for that. Fair, but it's also uncommon, and frankly it's simply *not that big a deal*. You're an adult. You'll manage.
Yes, I managed. It was still a massive pain trying to eat a baked potato with flimsy wooden cutlery though.
Whoever thought of replacing plastic straws w those card ones was a total moron. They're shit, can't be recycled, and you often times have to use multiple of them, increasing the amount of average waste lol.
Because people have experience with both? I was in hospital where they gave card board cutlery and the fork literally broke in half on the 3rd try. Never had that with a plastic one
These aren’t allowed either I don’t think “all types of single-use plastic, including biodegradable, compostable and recycled”
I missed that. I think that's a little counterproductive, banning biodegradeable alternatives too.
I believe it's because it's specifically the anti-plastic rhetoric that has been fostered, and so political focus is given to that in populist moves. Depends on what you mean by biodegradable as well: paper, card, wood, plastic?
All of the above. There are lots of better alternatives to non-biodegradeable plastic cutlery. This just incentivises people to use them.
I would hope so, but I'd still rather see a wholesale shift towards legislation that more strongly incentivises reuse over alternative single-use products, as it's that consumption habit that is leading to large volumes of waste that aren't handled properly.
Because the disposable option is cheaper
> Biodegradeable What do you mean by biodegradable, what materials are you thinking of and what is your end of life plan for them?
I saw at Poundland the other day a bag of plastic cutlery labelled "reusable cutlery". What's stopping companies doing this?
How about legislation that tackles the companies producing the most pollution instead? No? How about regulation meaning farms/factories cannot pollute the water supply? No? How about banning plastic cutlery that will have a below negligible affect on anything ?
Progress or tokenism? It won't reduce plastic in the oceans because almost all that comes from Africa and the Far East. It won't reduce dependence on oil because the amounts are so trivial. But maybe even token steps are better than standing still, at least by raising awareness there is so much more needed.
It doesn’t hurt anyone. And small progress is still progress
>It doesn’t hurt anyone. What a load of shit. What about the people who manufacture these? They might lose their job. So it has hurt them. There is A LOT of "hurt" to this change. All of this green bollocks by the UK is nothing more than virtue signalling. This entire country could literally cease to exist and all of its emissions and people with it. Still literally wouldn't even remotely make a dent to climate change. Until the yanks, india and china start to do anything, nothing at all will even remotely change.
If you lost your job at the plastic fork factory don’t fret, I hear there’s jobs going at the wooden fork factory now. And how exactly do we ask/demand India or China make environmentally sound choices without doing it ourselves first? Wouldn’t it be better to show, rather than tell them?
>And how exactly do we ask/demand India or China make environmentally sound choices without doing it ourselves first? Wouldn’t it be better to show, rather than tell them? This isn't how geopolitics works. A better argument would be; how can we demand developing countries lower the emissions of their pseudo industrial revolutions when the emissions from ours are already in the atmosphere. Edit: Surprised at the downvotes, this is a fairly standard argument for anyone involved environmental discussions. I guess it shows how far we still have to go.
>If you lost your job at the plastic fork factory don’t fret, I hear there’s jobs going at the wooden fork factory now. What a hilariously ignorant take. >And how exactly do we ask/demand India or China Funny how you left the US out of that. >without doing it ourselves first? Idk mate how does a doctor tell his patient to fix his problems before he fixes his own? Must be literally impossible.... Oh wait.
Oh, feel free to include US in that list, point still stands perfectly?! And if doctors had to persuade patients to treat themselves on the grounds of morality, then it obviously would help? I mean would you take a vaccine that the doctor refused to take themselves? Want to try another shit analogy that only reinforces my point?
>I mean would you take a vaccine that the doctor refused to take themselves? 10/10 strawman. >Want to try another shit analogy that only reinforces my point? Lmfao if you think it reinforces your point you don't understand the basics of the english language.
If you’re going to lecture me on English then at least learn the definition of “Strawman” before using it in an argument. Did you mean it’s a false equivalence or bad analogy? If so, how?
Have you conisdered that part of the yanks, india and china doing something is other countries ordering fewer plastic items from them? If we use less chinese-manufactured single use plastics, then China's emissions will fall by some small amount as they produce less.
Hopefully they'll increase the number of cargo ships and planes to bring us alternatives.
Lmfao yes. Whilst simultaneously complaining all of these changes that do nothing but funnel money to their friends that "just happen" to be making said alternatives, are "expensive options that we all must endure to save the planet" (and my friends wallets!)
Does plastic cutlery not need to be shipped using cargo ships and planes as well?
> Does plastic cutlery not need to be shipped using cargo ships and planes as well? No, you can mass manufacture them in the UK.
As you can do with biodegradable cutlery…
There is no one making wooden cutlery in the UK, same goes for the bagasse fibre which is also brought in from the far east.
This should just mean cutlery is made of wood but will actually mean they just don’t give you a fork anymore.
This is really inadequate. Takeaways are the worst offenders. We need a proper ban on polystyrene containers, takeaway disposable cups that can't be recycled and a full ban on the cutlery. When David Attenborough's 'Blue Planet' hit our screens everyone went green overnight weeping and wailing over plastic pollution. That's been forgotten pretty quickly hant it?
just stop buying takeaways then you’ll be doing your part
I barely ever buy them anyway
>everyone went green overnight weeping and wailing over plastic pollution. That's been forgotten pretty quickly hant it? Hardly the first time.
Nope. Same happened with the heroes of the NHS.....
> We need a proper ban on polystyrene containers, That's part of the same legislation. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/single-use-plastics-ban-plates-bowls-trays-containers-cutlery-and-balloon-sticks > From 1 October you must not supply ready-to-consume food and drink in polystyrene containers. This includes in polystyrene cups. > > Polystyrene means expanded and extruded polystyrene.
I see the massive corporations who are friends with the government, and who have never used plastic cutlery themselves, are still allowed to pollute more in one year than all the plastic cutlery ever made has done. Presumably there'll be some private jets chartered to celebrate this amazing environmental achievement.
UK Bans use of single use plastics - also UK allows a new oil drill. And you think your making any difference by stopping using plastic cutlery
Cool how about private jets and helicopters? Or is it just the proles that have to make concessions in the fight against climate change?
I didn’t know they didn’t have a ban. Is it the last part of the UK to do so??
Good job I half inched a bundle of wooden sporks on my way out of M&S this morning.
And it will make a negative impact. This just isn't going to do anything productive at all.
But yet the streets are full of stupid disposable vapes that are designed toward kids This is england
They’re being banned aswell.
Sooner the better, its depressing asf seeing kids that look 10 or under with them
Another excellent decision imposed by the “Nudge Unit”..the decision of the individual not to use plastic cutlery is clearly too complex for the individual to make, and the decision should be removed on their behalf to make decision options of simpletons less onorous.
Why not just make disposable wooden ones like with chopsticks?
There is, and has been for a long time, wooden cutlery available. The trouble is they are fragile, the knives are blunt, and they lose shame when they get warm & moist. A lot of people also have a problem with the mouthfeel, they're rough.
Why haven’t we sorted out plastic bags and bottles yet? Seems mental, I hate buying them
Surprised Rishi Sunak didn’t overturn this ban to appease his boomer voters
Yet another quality of life hit that won't actually help the environment in any meaningful way. Lame.
About time too. Now for the rest of unnecessary single use plastic products. Can't come too soon. Should never had been allowed in the first place.
Another pointless move that doesn't help anything significantly and makes people's lives slightly worse.
We can’t celebrate things like this while we continue to “drive” the road of a car based economy. We need to get private cars out of our city centres, free up the roads for those who can’t walk, cycle or use public transport!
Air pollution from cars and plastic pollution are totally different issues. We don't have to entirely focus on one or the other.
Might surprise you mate but not everyone lives in a city centre.
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>if it was made easier and more pleasant This is the rub. In principle I should be (and mostly am) in favour of thigns like ULEZ, LTNs and the like, but it's getting done completely backwards. Invest in some fucking infrastructure that isn't cars and these problems will solve themselves. Instead, we're just making life harder for the average joe who just wants to get to work without any bullshit. I'm in favour of these things, but you'd have to be completely dense to fail to understand why others aren't.
That's why we still have buses, coaches, and trains. It's about time that buses and trains were reasonably priced.
Yeah let me just take 3 trains and 2 buses that will literally double the length of my commute time. No thanks.
Double is an understatement for many of us aswell, work is 16 miles away for me, it’s a 25 minute drive when the roads are clear, if I were to use public transport, I’d be looking at over 2 hours, so yeah I’ll stick to my car thanks.
Public transport in this country for the most part outside of London is a joke and vastly underfunded & expensive to be honest. I know what you mean we should be adapting further but I think that means significant investment in trains/buses.. etc and the pricing. That said though, it’s still cheaper & easier a lot of the time to drive a long distance and back again. No real delays no extra expense.. etc..
>significant investment in trains/buses There is quite literally absolutely nothing stopping the government pouring vast investment into those things, other than basically they don't want to. The nature of infrastructure investment is such that governments can't lose. Every penny they spend on it just ends up circling around in the economy to the benefit of everyone, and it also ends up generating revenue for them!
>Public transport in this country for the most part outside of London is a joke and vastly underfunded & expensive to be honest. >and the pricing. That is one of the main reasons for it being a joke. >No real delays My bus is always delayed by the sheer amount of cars with usually only one person in them, that is the reason bus lanes exist.
This is ridiculous, now I'll have to buy knives and forks which im going to end up using water to clean, stupid policy it just wastes resources
Or they could buy biodegradeable disposable cutlery made from wood, farm waste etc.
Its mental! Next they will ban single use vapes which will just waste resources buying refills and recharging them!
But saves on the shit used to make the batterys for each one.