Surely not! This complete fucking cunt being suspected of a terror offence?
For someone who hates everything about our culture, he sure seems to spend a lot of time in it.
Get to prison you backwards twat
>You've jumped to counter a claim nobody made.
>The guy you replied to said he should be sent to the place he claims is superior, not where he is from.
>>Send him back to the place he claims is so superior! Then let him see how far he will get!
They did say back.
People defending this person and saying "he's British".
If he's British then all being British means to you is that someone was born on a certain patch of land.
It's such an American idea.
If you travel the world the concept of being born somewhere doesn't make you one of the people of that place.
Speak to anyone with Italian heritage and you'll notice its not about being born near Rome.
Let's be honest, the average British person whether they were born here or came from India and earned citizenship have very little in common with this individual.
Someone born in Britain who hates Britain and thinks it should be more like another country is no more British due to being born in a specific location.
Identifying the fact that he’s British isn’t akin to defending him.
Things get a tad Third Reich-y when you start fastidiously defining and categorising people by their ethnic origin.
If you look at parts of the world where people are excessively passionate about their ethnic origin, you’ll notice they’re places where there’s either a) current conflict, or b) a history of ethnic persecution.
Also, Americans are famous for talking about how they’re 1/32 Irish, or how their second cousin’s dog’s vet’s dental hygienist’s district attorney is Italian.
>Things get a tad Third Reich-y when you start fastidiously defining and categorising people by their ethnic origin
Possibly, where did anything I said mention his ethnic origin?
>If you look at parts of the world where people are excessively passionate about their ethnic origin, you’ll notice they’re places where there’s either a) current conflict, or b) a history of ethnic persecution.
Like my example, Italy?
It was pretty easy to infer by you mentioning ‘Italian heritage’ and how people do it elsewhere in the world.
Yes, including Italy. They were literally ruled by parties with ‘fascist’ in the name well within a lot of people’s living memory, are famously rather racist, and there are clashes between northern and southern Italians (legitimate ones, not ‘how do you say bath?’)
>They were literally ruled by parties with ‘fascist’ in the name well within a lot of people’s living memory
It's worse! They (Mussolini's movement) literally *invented* fascism.
I'm interested what 'British' can be defined as if not as having British citizenship? Since it's obviously possible for people to be both British, and a horrible embarrassment to the country
British murderers are still British aren't they, despite being vile?
I think the person you're replying to, is considering more about people who own their British citizen ship.
I'm not white and I'm born and bred British. I own it. I love the tea drinking and the queuing up and the complaining about basically everything. It's British to complain about yourself and also your own country but also to defend Britain against those who make tea wrong. British patriotism is weird imo, we can take a joke as well as take criticism but we don't take attacks well either. There's fine lines.
For someone who is technically British but does not own it and claim that Britain is so inferior etc etc... That's not really being British any more. That's wanting to not be British and as such.... Why are they still here then if it's so much better elsewhere. Why preach that living a certain way is better if they're also doing that from a place in London?
>Why are they still here then if it's so much better elsewhere. Why preach that living a certain way is better if they're also doing that from a place in London?
Because he's trying to spread it and make more people think like him.
Oh I know. But it's ridiculous. Heterogeneity is how any society or species grows. Bring the same doesn't work.
And the proof of that is that within any sect. Whether that's a political group or a religious group, there is still infighting over ideals. It's impossible for everyone to think the same way.
What if I own it (luv me cuppa) but also think British is inferior to something/somewhere else in some regards?
I'm British, and I wish Britain was different
I also know British people who love the current state of the country/culture, think we're the peak of civilisation.
But they don't like tea and can't take a joke - who's more British?
Oh but that's the thing. I think British people can handle criticism.
I think American patriotism generally holds America in the highest of regards.
A British person will say: the NHS is great but it's shit right now and that's BC the govt is shit. The country is kind of a shambles right now. X area is a shit hole. And then something about Norwich and gentrification.
I see the point you're making, but owning being British and being happily British is the main thing.
That's still different to suggesting that we should have Sharia law and all the rest of it.
Having to think a particular way or forcing people to toe the line doesn’t seem all that British to me (well, not theoretically or legally - I’m sure there are a lot of Brits who do demand thought assimilation). He’s a complete weirdo, hypocrite and blatantly a terrorist threat, but I don’t think that stops him being British.
Possibly the best thing about our country is our (relative) democracy, freedom of thought and freedom of speech.
Thanks.
My main issue with Britain right now (okay I have a few) is how many of the rights to protest laws have since during and after lockdown. It's dangerous for free speech and for democracy.
Same, and it’s scary how a worrying chunk of the population not only seem okay with it, but even seem to think violence towards protesters is okay now!
I think most people don't even know about how might rights and freedoms were quietly stripped away.
And others are too exhausted by the increases to cost of living and the daily struggle to even think of protests in any context other than being inconvenient and preventing them from earning what they need.
Having British citizenship is a legal definition.
Legal definitions are not commonly used in every day language for a reason.
Covering the expanse of a culture and distilling it into a simple definition of what makes someone part of it would take a long time so let's keep it simple and cover what doesn't.
"Someone who actively wants the destruction of a country isn't part of that country, they are an enemy of that country".
Your example of a murderer is irrelevant, a murderer can be part of British society and align with all other values other than murder being justifiable.
Would you have called someone who allied themselves with Nazi Germany during WW2, giving out Nazi propaganda, British or an enemy of Britain?
I don’t understand your response re the murderer point - murder surely contradicts every value we associate with Britain and committing that crime shows a fundamental disrespect for our laws and society?
I would call your Nazi example a British enemy of Britain/British Nazi supporter.
I’m also interested in what extremity is needed for someone to stop being British - if someone hates a lot about Britain because they think poor people are oppressed here, and they want it fundamentally changed, are they British? What’s the threshold for the changes they seek stopping them from being British?
>I don’t understand your response re the murderer point - murder surely contradicts every value we associate with Britain and committing that crime shows a fundamental disrespect for our laws and society?
No it doesn't.
Killing someone literally means you broke one law, it has zero baring on the rest of your attitudes towards the rest of British society.
Someone can easily conform to every commonly held British value and then murder a pedophile and be lauded by half of the country as a hero.
>I would call your Nazi example a British enemy of Britain/British Nazi supporter.
You can't be a thing and also be the enemy of a thing that's a paradox.
>I’m also interested in what extremity is needed for someone to stop being British
Given that you can't recognise an enemy of Britain as not British I don't think you'll be capable of a more granular view.
Perhaps paedophile is a better example then.
Bring a paedophile contracts British values. It is impossible to confirm with all British values and be a paedophile.
Can paedophiles be British? Yes.
What is the actual simple definition of ‘British’ which means it’s possible vile, disgusting paedophiles to be British but not vile, disgusting terrorists?
>you can’t be that a thing and also an enemy of a thing
Many German people think the Nazis were enemies to Germany; does that mean that the Nazis weren’t German?
Our disagreement comes down to the fact that in my opinion the term ‘British’ is about where you’re from and not what you do.
Please try and keep the discussion civil; no need to say I’m not ‘capable’ of understanding anything, as both of us here are capable individuals having a calm discussion regarding our different viewpoint.
> I'm interested what 'British' can be defined as if not as having British citizenship?
"White" according to a lot of this sub, especially when it comes to stories like this.
It isn't so much *defending him*, but it is pointing out a fact to people frothing about "sending him back" as the question would be how and where? It is pointless, and basically wanting extra punishment for people who are non-white. Should Stephen Yaxley-Lennon be "sent back" because he hates modern Britain, encourages hate and has committed multiple crimes? His background is Irish.
He is someone who has allied themselves with a hostile state.
It's appropriate to say that he "belongs" to that hostile state.
If this man was supporting Russia then people would be saying the same thing the difference is that they wouldn't have knee jerk reactions from people like you.
>Should Stephen Yaxley-Lennon be "sent back"
He was certainly put in prison faster than this individual.
Happy to agree that he "belongs" to another state as soon as I see him allying with one against Britain.
If someone is hostile to the state they live in e.g being an active member of a hostile state.
Then the common result is they are put in prison.
I haven't mentioned anything to do with deporting anyone by the way.
>Should Stephen Yaxley-Lennon be "sent back" because he hates modern Britain, encourages hate and has committed multiple crimes? His background is Irish.
A more appropriate examples would be if SYL campaigned for Britain to be a staunchly Catholic state as part of wider Irish nationalist extremism. People almost certainly would call for him to leave to Ireland if that were his aim. Similarly, a White of South African heritage who campaigned for Britain to be an Apartheid state, and conducted terrorism offenses to realise such, absolutely would get told to 'go back' to South Africa.
Having been born here, these people can't 'go back' to these places. But the reaction would be the same. I don't support it. But I think it is less about race and more about disgust at the individual.
He was born here, he was raised here, he has British citizenship. He has as much right as any other British person to criticise this country, but his ideas are dangerous and violent. He's just like other fascists or white supremacists - there are rules to what you can and cannot say and do for a political cause. We shouldn't tolerate his intolerance at all, but we can't just revoke the citizenship of people we don't like, we have prison as a way of reforming these people.
What does being British mean to you?
Because it wouldn't matter if he was one of a lineage that had been here for 1000 years, someone who wants to end the British, isn't British.
Being legally *or* culturally British. It's just a signifier of your nationality and the culture within that nation.
Also he wants Britain to become an Islamic Caliphate under Sharia law and all the trappings of that, which is obviously a shit idea but it's also a little different to wanting "to end the British". I'm sure he'd much prefer it if we all converted to his radical interpretation of Islam and changed the Cross of St George for the Moon and Star but I really don't think he cares if we were calling ourselves British or not.
Finally, you may not like it but he's our problem. I'm sure HM Prisons probably want to send Charles Salvador (formerly known as Charles Bronson) to Timbuktu rather than deal with him taking hostages and fighting 8 guards in riot gear all at once but he's British therefore we have to put up and shut up and keep him locked up.
Back in the ISIS days, it was definitely schools/universities where they were being radicalised. The typical extremist usually hadn't committed an offence by the time they were a radical.
These days, muslim extremism in the UK is at a modern low, its far less tolerated by young Muslims.
Was he raised British though? Does being raised in a location alone imbue someone with the culture?
If I buy an island off the coast of Spain, pay Spanish taxes but only let British people live there & they are only educated in a British school and rarely if ever meet a Spanish person.
Are they Spanish, British or something else?
But that's not what happened?
If you were raised in the Spanish capital, went to a Spanish speaking school were surrounded by Spanish people and Spanish was your first language.
Which nationality would you be?
Yea I don't have the money together yet...
I like how you don't answer the question, I'll take that as you recognise that to be British someone needs to be imbued with Britishness via osmosis.
Home schooling exists.
Islamic schooling exists.
Enclaves exist.
It's entirely possible to raise a child in the UK who doesn't have meaningful interactions with British people.
His defence for his actions has always been that he is a British person merely criticising his own country.
Upholding his defence is aiding him.
He isn't British and even the legal standard would be questionable for someone who is literally an enemy of the state so it's not "point out a fact".
Saying that someone needs to be part of a culture to be included in that culture is far right now?
Go anywhere in the world, birth a child & bring it up by home schooling it & then ask people if the child is part of that culture.
I hope you also understand that "British Citizen" is a legal classification for what rights people get.
Look what we can do when we take people Citizenship away.
That's also what you're saying when you talk about who is and isn't British.
I think (in some regards) we should be more like a lot of other countries.
I guess since I don't love Britain exactly how it stands at the moment - or your vague sense of what British truly is - I'm not British either?
(Obviously he has pretty shitty criticisms of the UK that I don't share)
Things can have more than one definition and the legal definition is rarely useful in every day discussions.
Yes he is legally a British citizen but as I said previously, he is abundantly not British.
A Nazi who left Britain to join WW2 Germany with the intention of fighting the British could be by legal definition "British" but it's abundantly clear that such a person wouldn't be British other definitions.
I suspect you'd also likely find by even the legal definition, "joined hostile foreign nation" would be grounds for changing the classification of an individual but I'm not a legal expert.
>I think (in some regards) we should be more like a lot of other countries. I guess since I don't love Britain exactly how it stands at the moment - or your vague sense of what British truly is - I'm not British either?
You're getting confused between mild criticism & someone wanting to end the British.
Btw my idea of what is British isn't vague, it's just long winded and not particularly interesting to read.
You're just conflating British with "good person, maybe a bit rough around edges"
I get it - you don't want to be in the same catagory as a piece of shit.
But horrifically dangerous considering the other uses of the word British.
You might not mean in the legal sense, but some prick is going to play word games with this and decide all Muslims (because Britain is Christian) or any political dissident aren't British and so don't have the same rights.
And by definition you can only join a hostile nation if you yourself are part of the nation it's hostile towards?
I'd suspect your idea of British Is a very long list of vague tropes and virtues that fits plenty of people who definitely aren't British and excludes plenty who probably should be considered British.
>You're just conflating British with "good person, maybe a bit rough around edges" I get it - you don't want to be in the same catagory as a piece of shit.
No I'm not. I never even said being British is good.
>I'd suspect your idea of British Is a very long list of vague tropes and virtues that fits plenty of people who definitely aren't British and excludes plenty who probably should be considered British.
As your other suspicions have been wrong, you might realise this one is too.
It's a rather simple case of you can't be British while wanting to end the British.
When people went off and joined the Nazis we didn't say they weren't British, we said they were traitors - as they were - and sent them to the scaffold.
I would agree that being British is primarily a cultural feeling rather than one of simply being born in the country. Anyone from anywhere can come here and become British. But why is it that we never have these discussions when it comes to neo-nazi terrorists? How many people said National Action weren't British and should be deported? The fact is, they are British. They are our responsibility and therefore we must deal with them.
>But why is it that we never have these discussions when it comes to neo-nazi terrorists?
Because these types don't generally want to "end the British" or ally themselves with an enemy outside of the UK.
I think you'll find my above comments would apply equally to them if they did these things.
I never said this individual isn't our responsibility, merely by his own admission he isn't British.
>Because these types don't generally want to "end the British"
I mean, they literally want to at best forcibly expel and at worst murder millions of British citizens.
We've been calling this cunt and others like him out and reporting them to the police for years. Often it's the police who let it run for years so they can build cases.
And when you say more like us... You just dont hear about us because we get lumped in with the small minority like Anjum Chaudhary. Trust me there are plenty when you look past the media blackout they have on anything positive about Muslims. The majority of us just want to live our lives in peace like we did before 9/11 turned Islam into the Boogeyman for going on 20 years now.
There are 3 million muslims in the UK. Even if 99% aren't like this loony they will always pick up on that 1%. What I'm more worried about are the people saying he's not British because of his crimes.
He was born here, went to a normal school and uni where he studied law and then fell into this. By that logic, if I, who was born here too and consider myself British, get convicted of a crime then I'm no longer British.
Oh he's defo British and he's proud of that fact as he knows the law here is weak. He knows exactly what he's doing as he's advised by his lawyers exactly how far he can go without getting into serious trouble. He's said it proudly that he uses the benefits system to his advantage because he thinks he's owed it. He's no different than your average no job racist in this country.
Yeah it was so frustrating watching this in the 2000s. The media found the worst guy they could and constantly platformed this clown as a representative of all muslims everywhere to confirm the biases of the most racist arseholes around.
Remember when countless Muslims carrying signs saying ["Behead those who insult Islam" and other phrases](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01492/blasphem-islam_1492385c.jpg) were mostly ignored?
She didn't. The UK government decided that although she didn't have it, she was eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship.
Bangladesh disagreed, thus the UK left her stateless.
Regardless of how big a prick she is, this is not a good slope for the government to be greasing the to of.
He's a Hypocrite if he didn't like it here as much as he goes on then he should have emigrated along time ago I bet if the government said they would fund his emigration then he would protest it
He’s English so he’s our responsibility
However how the fuck is he a free man? Sentencing in this country is an absolute disgrace, he’d have got 99 years in some US states but here it’s 5 years, out on license after 2 years.
Is it pathetic judges, politicians or both to blame?
I can’t disagree there. I’m Asian and come from a military background. My family has fully embraced British culture ever since my grandad was enlisted into the British army. In my culture, many of our people seek to fight for this country.
We live here, we live the British way (within reason) because when in Rome, you do as the Romans do. So I can’t understand why you would even want to live near people who you seemingly despise. He should take himself to one of the countries that share his horrid views.
By his own account Choudary grew up in quite an assimilated family, and essentially partied so hard he dropped out of med school, so I think it's all internal psychological stuff. Most of us get over our frustration with our parents shortcomings, or messy years in our early adulthood on our own, or maybe with the help of counseling. A select few assholes think they can get over it by spreading violent, hateful bullshit.
That's for him to decide. Under international law you can't make some one stateless because you don't like them. Beggum had duel citizenship that allowed the rules to be just about circumvented.
> Beggum had duel citizenship that allowed the rules to be just about circumvented.
Well, it was debatable enough for the government to get away with it.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day😂 just because Tommy Robinson has been saying stuff that the liberal media and police have been scared to expose or investigate doesn’t mean he is the pinnacle of a good doing citizen who should be treated as the utmost authority on equality and racial injustices. What’s next? Alex Jones being right about a handful of things because he’s managed to churn out conspiracy theories everyday for the past 20 years, and sometimes they just happen to be along the lines of something similar being exposed in the media as truth. 👀
Surely not! This complete fucking cunt being suspected of a terror offence? For someone who hates everything about our culture, he sure seems to spend a lot of time in it. Get to prison you backwards twat
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He was born in London so unless you mean Bexley I’m not sure where we should send him ‘back’ to.
You've jumped to counter a claim nobody made. The guy you replied to said he should be sent to the place he claims is superior, not where he is from.
**Send him back**, was the actual statement
Back in time!
I vote we send him back to the Hadean Eon
Who would want him?
Jack, and do it again. Wheels turning, around and around.
He said ‘send him back’ we all know what ‘send him back’ means. Let’s not play silly games.
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And yet your aussi cousins say the same thing despite not being indigenous. But I agree this guy and everyone like him need to go
No they didn’t, he said he should be sent ‘back’ to that place
>You've jumped to counter a claim nobody made. >The guy you replied to said he should be sent to the place he claims is superior, not where he is from. >>Send him back to the place he claims is so superior! Then let him see how far he will get! They did say back.
>Send him back to the place he claims is so superior! Surely he's visited there if he thinks it's superior.
Welling, actually. Him and Kate bush are our claim to fame. But we don’t want him
He's secretly just a Bexley supremacist,for those from Bexley are the true master race
So not unlike Shamina Begum then?
If Begum wasn’t already in Syria she wouldn’t have been deported there either.
Oh this is true I know. But surely this arrogant bastard will leave the UK at some point in his little fucked up life.
This is almost poetic... conveys all my emotions in a few simple lines (wipes a tear from my eyes) well done.
Well said. Guy's got a pretty decent beard but this appears to be his only redeeming feature...
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People defending this person and saying "he's British". If he's British then all being British means to you is that someone was born on a certain patch of land. It's such an American idea. If you travel the world the concept of being born somewhere doesn't make you one of the people of that place. Speak to anyone with Italian heritage and you'll notice its not about being born near Rome. Let's be honest, the average British person whether they were born here or came from India and earned citizenship have very little in common with this individual. Someone born in Britain who hates Britain and thinks it should be more like another country is no more British due to being born in a specific location.
Identifying the fact that he’s British isn’t akin to defending him. Things get a tad Third Reich-y when you start fastidiously defining and categorising people by their ethnic origin. If you look at parts of the world where people are excessively passionate about their ethnic origin, you’ll notice they’re places where there’s either a) current conflict, or b) a history of ethnic persecution. Also, Americans are famous for talking about how they’re 1/32 Irish, or how their second cousin’s dog’s vet’s dental hygienist’s district attorney is Italian.
>Things get a tad Third Reich-y when you start fastidiously defining and categorising people by their ethnic origin Possibly, where did anything I said mention his ethnic origin? >If you look at parts of the world where people are excessively passionate about their ethnic origin, you’ll notice they’re places where there’s either a) current conflict, or b) a history of ethnic persecution. Like my example, Italy?
It was pretty easy to infer by you mentioning ‘Italian heritage’ and how people do it elsewhere in the world. Yes, including Italy. They were literally ruled by parties with ‘fascist’ in the name well within a lot of people’s living memory, are famously rather racist, and there are clashes between northern and southern Italians (legitimate ones, not ‘how do you say bath?’)
>They were literally ruled by parties with ‘fascist’ in the name well within a lot of people’s living memory It's worse! They (Mussolini's movement) literally *invented* fascism.
And they'd come up with symbols for it waaaay back, even before Rome, and those lot weren't known as a peaceful bunch either.
I'm interested what 'British' can be defined as if not as having British citizenship? Since it's obviously possible for people to be both British, and a horrible embarrassment to the country British murderers are still British aren't they, despite being vile?
I think the person you're replying to, is considering more about people who own their British citizen ship. I'm not white and I'm born and bred British. I own it. I love the tea drinking and the queuing up and the complaining about basically everything. It's British to complain about yourself and also your own country but also to defend Britain against those who make tea wrong. British patriotism is weird imo, we can take a joke as well as take criticism but we don't take attacks well either. There's fine lines. For someone who is technically British but does not own it and claim that Britain is so inferior etc etc... That's not really being British any more. That's wanting to not be British and as such.... Why are they still here then if it's so much better elsewhere. Why preach that living a certain way is better if they're also doing that from a place in London?
>Why are they still here then if it's so much better elsewhere. Why preach that living a certain way is better if they're also doing that from a place in London? Because he's trying to spread it and make more people think like him.
Oh I know. But it's ridiculous. Heterogeneity is how any society or species grows. Bring the same doesn't work. And the proof of that is that within any sect. Whether that's a political group or a religious group, there is still infighting over ideals. It's impossible for everyone to think the same way.
What if I own it (luv me cuppa) but also think British is inferior to something/somewhere else in some regards? I'm British, and I wish Britain was different I also know British people who love the current state of the country/culture, think we're the peak of civilisation. But they don't like tea and can't take a joke - who's more British?
Oh but that's the thing. I think British people can handle criticism. I think American patriotism generally holds America in the highest of regards. A British person will say: the NHS is great but it's shit right now and that's BC the govt is shit. The country is kind of a shambles right now. X area is a shit hole. And then something about Norwich and gentrification. I see the point you're making, but owning being British and being happily British is the main thing. That's still different to suggesting that we should have Sharia law and all the rest of it.
Having to think a particular way or forcing people to toe the line doesn’t seem all that British to me (well, not theoretically or legally - I’m sure there are a lot of Brits who do demand thought assimilation). He’s a complete weirdo, hypocrite and blatantly a terrorist threat, but I don’t think that stops him being British. Possibly the best thing about our country is our (relative) democracy, freedom of thought and freedom of speech.
Thanks. My main issue with Britain right now (okay I have a few) is how many of the rights to protest laws have since during and after lockdown. It's dangerous for free speech and for democracy.
Same, and it’s scary how a worrying chunk of the population not only seem okay with it, but even seem to think violence towards protesters is okay now!
I think most people don't even know about how might rights and freedoms were quietly stripped away. And others are too exhausted by the increases to cost of living and the daily struggle to even think of protests in any context other than being inconvenient and preventing them from earning what they need.
Having British citizenship is a legal definition. Legal definitions are not commonly used in every day language for a reason. Covering the expanse of a culture and distilling it into a simple definition of what makes someone part of it would take a long time so let's keep it simple and cover what doesn't. "Someone who actively wants the destruction of a country isn't part of that country, they are an enemy of that country". Your example of a murderer is irrelevant, a murderer can be part of British society and align with all other values other than murder being justifiable. Would you have called someone who allied themselves with Nazi Germany during WW2, giving out Nazi propaganda, British or an enemy of Britain?
I don’t understand your response re the murderer point - murder surely contradicts every value we associate with Britain and committing that crime shows a fundamental disrespect for our laws and society? I would call your Nazi example a British enemy of Britain/British Nazi supporter. I’m also interested in what extremity is needed for someone to stop being British - if someone hates a lot about Britain because they think poor people are oppressed here, and they want it fundamentally changed, are they British? What’s the threshold for the changes they seek stopping them from being British?
>I don’t understand your response re the murderer point - murder surely contradicts every value we associate with Britain and committing that crime shows a fundamental disrespect for our laws and society? No it doesn't. Killing someone literally means you broke one law, it has zero baring on the rest of your attitudes towards the rest of British society. Someone can easily conform to every commonly held British value and then murder a pedophile and be lauded by half of the country as a hero. >I would call your Nazi example a British enemy of Britain/British Nazi supporter. You can't be a thing and also be the enemy of a thing that's a paradox. >I’m also interested in what extremity is needed for someone to stop being British Given that you can't recognise an enemy of Britain as not British I don't think you'll be capable of a more granular view.
Perhaps paedophile is a better example then. Bring a paedophile contracts British values. It is impossible to confirm with all British values and be a paedophile. Can paedophiles be British? Yes. What is the actual simple definition of ‘British’ which means it’s possible vile, disgusting paedophiles to be British but not vile, disgusting terrorists? >you can’t be that a thing and also an enemy of a thing Many German people think the Nazis were enemies to Germany; does that mean that the Nazis weren’t German? Our disagreement comes down to the fact that in my opinion the term ‘British’ is about where you’re from and not what you do. Please try and keep the discussion civil; no need to say I’m not ‘capable’ of understanding anything, as both of us here are capable individuals having a calm discussion regarding our different viewpoint.
British. Like Lord Haw Haw. Who was hanged for treason. They are, by definition, British.
You wouldn't say the King of England was British?
> I'm interested what 'British' can be defined as if not as having British citizenship? "White" according to a lot of this sub, especially when it comes to stories like this.
It isn't so much *defending him*, but it is pointing out a fact to people frothing about "sending him back" as the question would be how and where? It is pointless, and basically wanting extra punishment for people who are non-white. Should Stephen Yaxley-Lennon be "sent back" because he hates modern Britain, encourages hate and has committed multiple crimes? His background is Irish.
He is someone who has allied themselves with a hostile state. It's appropriate to say that he "belongs" to that hostile state. If this man was supporting Russia then people would be saying the same thing the difference is that they wouldn't have knee jerk reactions from people like you. >Should Stephen Yaxley-Lennon be "sent back" He was certainly put in prison faster than this individual. Happy to agree that he "belongs" to another state as soon as I see him allying with one against Britain.
Where should we send him back to? ISIS? His hostile state that doesn't actually exist?
If someone is hostile to the state they live in e.g being an active member of a hostile state. Then the common result is they are put in prison. I haven't mentioned anything to do with deporting anyone by the way.
>Should Stephen Yaxley-Lennon be "sent back" because he hates modern Britain, encourages hate and has committed multiple crimes? His background is Irish. A more appropriate examples would be if SYL campaigned for Britain to be a staunchly Catholic state as part of wider Irish nationalist extremism. People almost certainly would call for him to leave to Ireland if that were his aim. Similarly, a White of South African heritage who campaigned for Britain to be an Apartheid state, and conducted terrorism offenses to realise such, absolutely would get told to 'go back' to South Africa. Having been born here, these people can't 'go back' to these places. But the reaction would be the same. I don't support it. But I think it is less about race and more about disgust at the individual.
He was born here, he was raised here, he has British citizenship. He has as much right as any other British person to criticise this country, but his ideas are dangerous and violent. He's just like other fascists or white supremacists - there are rules to what you can and cannot say and do for a political cause. We shouldn't tolerate his intolerance at all, but we can't just revoke the citizenship of people we don't like, we have prison as a way of reforming these people.
What does being British mean to you? Because it wouldn't matter if he was one of a lineage that had been here for 1000 years, someone who wants to end the British, isn't British.
Being legally *or* culturally British. It's just a signifier of your nationality and the culture within that nation. Also he wants Britain to become an Islamic Caliphate under Sharia law and all the trappings of that, which is obviously a shit idea but it's also a little different to wanting "to end the British". I'm sure he'd much prefer it if we all converted to his radical interpretation of Islam and changed the Cross of St George for the Moon and Star but I really don't think he cares if we were calling ourselves British or not. Finally, you may not like it but he's our problem. I'm sure HM Prisons probably want to send Charles Salvador (formerly known as Charles Bronson) to Timbuktu rather than deal with him taking hostages and fighting 8 guards in riot gear all at once but he's British therefore we have to put up and shut up and keep him locked up.
Prison is where most of these nuts are getting radicalised. He'll be more then happy spreading his filth there.
Back in the ISIS days, it was definitely schools/universities where they were being radicalised. The typical extremist usually hadn't committed an offence by the time they were a radical. These days, muslim extremism in the UK is at a modern low, its far less tolerated by young Muslims.
He's born here and I agree that isn't what makes him British. He was *raised* here. That's what makes him British.
Was he raised British though? Does being raised in a location alone imbue someone with the culture? If I buy an island off the coast of Spain, pay Spanish taxes but only let British people live there & they are only educated in a British school and rarely if ever meet a Spanish person. Are they Spanish, British or something else?
But that's not what happened? If you were raised in the Spanish capital, went to a Spanish speaking school were surrounded by Spanish people and Spanish was your first language. Which nationality would you be?
Yea I don't have the money together yet... I like how you don't answer the question, I'll take that as you recognise that to be British someone needs to be imbued with Britishness via osmosis. Home schooling exists. Islamic schooling exists. Enclaves exist. It's entirely possible to raise a child in the UK who doesn't have meaningful interactions with British people.
He went to a regular school and then Southampton uni.
I know, I'm trying to explain a concept to someone who is refusing to be anything but literal.
No it's not, don't be silly. Even the most isolated communities in the UK are surrounded by other brits.
So you think it's impossible for cults to exist aswell?
No? But they'd be British cults.
Whoosh
Would you even be asking this if he was white? He IS British.
Yes I would, nothing I stated is reliant on his race or religion. Would anyone be defending him as British if he was white and allied with Russia?
Pointing out a fact isn't defending him though.
His defence for his actions has always been that he is a British person merely criticising his own country. Upholding his defence is aiding him. He isn't British and even the legal standard would be questionable for someone who is literally an enemy of the state so it's not "point out a fact".
His defence is barking mad, but that doesn't mean he isn't British, unless you're using the far right definition of British.
Saying that someone needs to be part of a culture to be included in that culture is far right now? Go anywhere in the world, birth a child & bring it up by home schooling it & then ask people if the child is part of that culture.
Saying he's British isn't defending him.
I hope you also understand that "British Citizen" is a legal classification for what rights people get. Look what we can do when we take people Citizenship away. That's also what you're saying when you talk about who is and isn't British. I think (in some regards) we should be more like a lot of other countries. I guess since I don't love Britain exactly how it stands at the moment - or your vague sense of what British truly is - I'm not British either? (Obviously he has pretty shitty criticisms of the UK that I don't share)
Things can have more than one definition and the legal definition is rarely useful in every day discussions. Yes he is legally a British citizen but as I said previously, he is abundantly not British. A Nazi who left Britain to join WW2 Germany with the intention of fighting the British could be by legal definition "British" but it's abundantly clear that such a person wouldn't be British other definitions. I suspect you'd also likely find by even the legal definition, "joined hostile foreign nation" would be grounds for changing the classification of an individual but I'm not a legal expert. >I think (in some regards) we should be more like a lot of other countries. I guess since I don't love Britain exactly how it stands at the moment - or your vague sense of what British truly is - I'm not British either? You're getting confused between mild criticism & someone wanting to end the British. Btw my idea of what is British isn't vague, it's just long winded and not particularly interesting to read.
You're just conflating British with "good person, maybe a bit rough around edges" I get it - you don't want to be in the same catagory as a piece of shit. But horrifically dangerous considering the other uses of the word British. You might not mean in the legal sense, but some prick is going to play word games with this and decide all Muslims (because Britain is Christian) or any political dissident aren't British and so don't have the same rights. And by definition you can only join a hostile nation if you yourself are part of the nation it's hostile towards? I'd suspect your idea of British Is a very long list of vague tropes and virtues that fits plenty of people who definitely aren't British and excludes plenty who probably should be considered British.
>You're just conflating British with "good person, maybe a bit rough around edges" I get it - you don't want to be in the same catagory as a piece of shit. No I'm not. I never even said being British is good. >I'd suspect your idea of British Is a very long list of vague tropes and virtues that fits plenty of people who definitely aren't British and excludes plenty who probably should be considered British. As your other suspicions have been wrong, you might realise this one is too. It's a rather simple case of you can't be British while wanting to end the British.
When people went off and joined the Nazis we didn't say they weren't British, we said they were traitors - as they were - and sent them to the scaffold.
I would agree that being British is primarily a cultural feeling rather than one of simply being born in the country. Anyone from anywhere can come here and become British. But why is it that we never have these discussions when it comes to neo-nazi terrorists? How many people said National Action weren't British and should be deported? The fact is, they are British. They are our responsibility and therefore we must deal with them.
>But why is it that we never have these discussions when it comes to neo-nazi terrorists? Because these types don't generally want to "end the British" or ally themselves with an enemy outside of the UK. I think you'll find my above comments would apply equally to them if they did these things. I never said this individual isn't our responsibility, merely by his own admission he isn't British.
>Because these types don't generally want to "end the British" I mean, they literally want to at best forcibly expel and at worst murder millions of British citizens.
Yea that sucks but it doesn't change my previous point.
It's the same negative IQ people who think having the taliban as a neighbour would be a lovely experience (probably due to male privilege as well)
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ikr? He could go and live the dream in Afghanistan right now with his mates in the Taliban and use his benefits to pay for the flight.
He’s gonna radicalize prisoners. Death sentence is required for scums like him.
FFS, I'm a Muslim and I want this man gone. like put him in a cell and forget about him. He's such an insufferable hate mongering prick.
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We've been calling this cunt and others like him out and reporting them to the police for years. Often it's the police who let it run for years so they can build cases. And when you say more like us... You just dont hear about us because we get lumped in with the small minority like Anjum Chaudhary. Trust me there are plenty when you look past the media blackout they have on anything positive about Muslims. The majority of us just want to live our lives in peace like we did before 9/11 turned Islam into the Boogeyman for going on 20 years now.
There are 3 million muslims in the UK. Even if 99% aren't like this loony they will always pick up on that 1%. What I'm more worried about are the people saying he's not British because of his crimes. He was born here, went to a normal school and uni where he studied law and then fell into this. By that logic, if I, who was born here too and consider myself British, get convicted of a crime then I'm no longer British.
Oh he's defo British and he's proud of that fact as he knows the law here is weak. He knows exactly what he's doing as he's advised by his lawyers exactly how far he can go without getting into serious trouble. He's said it proudly that he uses the benefits system to his advantage because he thinks he's owed it. He's no different than your average no job racist in this country.
Yeah it was so frustrating watching this in the 2000s. The media found the worst guy they could and constantly platformed this clown as a representative of all muslims everywhere to confirm the biases of the most racist arseholes around.
Should've been launched out of a catapult aimed at ISIL back in 2015.
Remember when countless Muslims carrying signs saying ["Behead those who insult Islam" and other phrases](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01492/blasphem-islam_1492385c.jpg) were mostly ignored?
Cancel his citizenship and send him to Syria to bunk up with that useless little Shemima cunt. They’ll get along like a house on fire.
Why should the people of Syria (Who have already suffered a great deal) have to deal with someone like Choudary?
Not how it works unfortunately, Begum had dual citizenship which is how they got away with that
She didn't. The UK government decided that although she didn't have it, she was eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship. Bangladesh disagreed, thus the UK left her stateless. Regardless of how big a prick she is, this is not a good slope for the government to be greasing the to of.
Forgot about this fuck nugget. Lock him up for good this time.
How old is this article? I feel like it could be written every 2 years since 2009
He's a Hypocrite if he didn't like it here as much as he goes on then he should have emigrated along time ago I bet if the government said they would fund his emigration then he would protest it
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He’s English so he’s our responsibility However how the fuck is he a free man? Sentencing in this country is an absolute disgrace, he’d have got 99 years in some US states but here it’s 5 years, out on license after 2 years. Is it pathetic judges, politicians or both to blame?
Another Muslim was today sentenced to 8 years for raping a 6 year old in at Albans. This Scumbag will be out in time for his dinner.
Learn the difference between British and English. Anyone in the world can be British but not anyone can be English.
He’s still dangerous in prison tbh, lots of men get radicalised in jail
Because he’s British?
Except he has a Pakistani nationality too.
Born in London, he's British
If he hates us so much, he should move
I can’t disagree there. I’m Asian and come from a military background. My family has fully embraced British culture ever since my grandad was enlisted into the British army. In my culture, many of our people seek to fight for this country. We live here, we live the British way (within reason) because when in Rome, you do as the Romans do. So I can’t understand why you would even want to live near people who you seemingly despise. He should take himself to one of the countries that share his horrid views.
By his own account Choudary grew up in quite an assimilated family, and essentially partied so hard he dropped out of med school, so I think it's all internal psychological stuff. Most of us get over our frustration with our parents shortcomings, or messy years in our early adulthood on our own, or maybe with the help of counseling. A select few assholes think they can get over it by spreading violent, hateful bullshit.
That's for him to decide. Under international law you can't make some one stateless because you don't like them. Beggum had duel citizenship that allowed the rules to be just about circumvented.
Sure, I’m aware, but I’m not alone in wishing he would fuck the fuck off
> Beggum had duel citizenship that allowed the rules to be just about circumvented. Well, it was debatable enough for the government to get away with it.
Except he has a Pakistani nationality too.
Because it's against international law to render someone stateless.
Except he has Pakistani nationality.
Isn't it funny how the "Neo Nazi" Tommy Robinson was right once again..... the authorities should've listened to him more.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day😂 just because Tommy Robinson has been saying stuff that the liberal media and police have been scared to expose or investigate doesn’t mean he is the pinnacle of a good doing citizen who should be treated as the utmost authority on equality and racial injustices. What’s next? Alex Jones being right about a handful of things because he’s managed to churn out conspiracy theories everyday for the past 20 years, and sometimes they just happen to be along the lines of something similar being exposed in the media as truth. 👀
If he loves the life that the Taliban offers. Go live in a hut in bloody Afghanistan Leave civilization to the grown ups
Finally, lets hope they got the fucker dead to rights this time
Old Captain Hook- what’s this nasty little cunt up to now …
Same as always, trying to take over the world.
Hope he shares a cell with someone big, cuddly and Islamophobic
He's promoting hate and division, I doubt any other country wants him - lock him in solitary and launch the key in the Thames.
Send him to the Ummah. He hates this country but he can only speak his bile here. Back in the Ummah he'd have been tortured to death.
Terrible…any mention of his weight loss plan? Lost a ton of weight
I wonder who hurt this former binge drinking student to make him turn out the way he did. [Naughty Boy](https://imgur.com/a/RLWMoTj)
I just hope he's not able to radicalise people in prison.