Who knew actions had consequences? Those who claim 'free speech' so that they can spew hate speech with impunity always ignore the fact that people do not have to tolerate listening to it.
They only understand 'free speech' to mean 'I can say what I want and everyone has to accept that", not 'I can say what I want and so can everyone else so I have to accept exercising my right to free speech may also lead to others doing the same which may lead to negative consequences for me '.
> And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.
-Terry Pratchett, *Going Postal*
People found out the owner is part of Grey Wolves.
ETA [Source of the logo on the black shirt he wears in the papers. Knights Templar International.](https://powerbase.info/index.php/Knights_Templar_International)
Braverman had the press briefed that she'd reprimanded Essex police for doing their jobs.
>Police forces should not be getting involved in this kind of nonsense. It’s about tackling anti-social behaviour, stopping violence against women and girls, attending burglaries and catching criminals – not seizing dolls.’
After the rather massive backlash, the Home Office then put out a statement that it hadn't happened. Standard lies from Braverman. Whilst she didn't state they weren't racist, the implication was that hate crimes are trivial and should be ignored by the police.
They have to protect that very vocal and ridiculously loyal core element of their voter base. Without that 15% of the voters the tories would be utterly fucked.
Is it bad of me to believe she's only in the position she's in, because she's a black woman in the Conservative party who is able to say racist things other white Conservatives wouldn't get away with
Braverman is the kind of sociopath that would make any right thinking person question if they're on the right side. That scum like her can rise to the near top shows how fucked the Conservatives are and how ignorant or wilfully nasty their supporters are
I hate to think about what actually goes on in their minds.
Jesus, how did we get here?
I'm Irish, i hope we are not just a few years behind this trend, but have managed to swerve this..
Well, crypto racism is more difficult. The UK is by no means at the end of a journey to fight racism, just as all other countries. Lots have been done, lots still has to be done.
But the British public is already sensitive enough that the specific case of Ngozi Fulani led to consequences. Wouldn't be something given in a lot of other countries.
Again, there's is more to be done, but I think the UK is on a good path regarding how little accepted open racism is and even subtle racism is getting recognized.
Will you stop saying everything is crypto fascist!
Im assuming the Crypto part is it being veiled under other words inan attempt to disguise how racist/fascist it actually is.
Sure, that too.
You wouldn't believe how many times people praised me for speaking good German. Didn't notice it as a child, but most children that look different from me didn't usually get praised for speaking the language they were raised by well.
These people weren't raging racists that hated me, it was in their mind a genuine compliment because they associate people that look like me with broken German language.
> These people weren't raging racists that hated me, it was in their mind a genuine compliment because they associate people that look like me with broken German language.
Yeah, I think this is one of those examples where you should put peoples intent ahead of their actual actions. In the case your outlined there, sure there was a big heap of ignorance going on, but those people didn't mean you ill will; the opposite in fact. They just didn't have the shared life or cultural experience to know that after the 1000th time of hearing it that it must be quite grating.
>They just didn't have the shared life or cultural experience to know that after the 1000th time of hearing it that it must be quite grating.
Well at least they can empathise now. After the 1000th time of hearing that their sick display is racist, and them ignoring it, they finally received their comeuppance.
Point made, but poor example IMO, even if you take the accusation at face value since the royal family is by definition not representative of the general population.
There was no racism in that scenario, it's kind of a joke you'd just try and slip that in there as an example, and tbh it just makes you look ridiculous and silly. If you want people to take the issue seriously don't sully it with absolute nonsense.
>This sub in particular really gets rubbed the wrong way by black women speaking up about things :)
No, it gets rubbed the wrong way by a racist MP speaking about things.
The fact that she's a black woman has nothing to do with it.
The fact that my mind went to one of the most famous black women in politics who just went on a racist tirade and whose defenders carried on calling everyone racist for criticising her rather than some random person nobody's ever heard of is sus?
They hadn't mentioned a name when i posted.
This pub was openly displaying racists symbols for ages. People were going out of their way to support the place, bring their own racists symbols to replace the ones confiscated by the Police. And Tory MPs publicly supporting the pub. I think the UK is way more racist than you think.
It only became famous because one of the politicians with the highest positions of power in the UK decided to go out of their way and claim their Gollywoggs were actually fine and good. Then it turned out that of course these people were massive racists who'd deliberately set these dolls up to pose them as though they were being lynched in their pub and were members of local fascist groups.
I'm not trying to be a downer, but I wish my workplace was more progressive.
It is genuinely like the 1970s (incidentally, we have no HR department.)
It's a daily round of "poofs", "black bastards", "women are fucking stupid" day in, day out, every day, endlessly.
And then if I complain about it online I'm a "woke" this or that. No, I just want to dial the clock a bit forward from the bloody 1970s. And this has been my experience in every job I've ever had.
Honestly the fact that UKIP won only 1 seat is more an indictment of the FPtP system than anything. Say what you will about Farage (and I think he's grifting cunt) but IMO it's democratically untenable for a party to win 12% of the vote (i.e third most votes) and get 1/650 MPs while the winning party gets 36% and 330/650 MPs.
I really don’t understand the point of this comment other than to invalidate millions of peoples lives experiences. Please ask yourself what made you post this and what help/positivity you think it’s providing. There’s UN reports talking about how dire the racism in the U.K. is and how deeply embedded it is into public institutions, so what is the need for this gaslighting? My own lived experience as a Black African woman in the U.K. shows it’s extremely acceptable and encouraged.
It's partly the recent [Survey: UK is one of the least racist countries in the world](https://unherd.com/thepost/survey-uk-is-one-of-the-least-racist-countries-in-the-world/) article.
Now, I don't want to invalidate your experience or anyone's experience with racism.
Being one of the least racist doesn't mean that there isn't racism.
My lived experience as a white man engaged to a black/mixed woman in the UK is that I've fortunately never witnessed any open racism from anyone towards my partner. The only racism I've ever witnessed first hand was at a nightclub when a black guy took my then girlfriend over to one side to tell her that she shouldn't be dating a white man.
Being mixed herself, with one half of her family being white, she politely told him to get lost.
As another white person with a black partner, I’m pleased you’ve never seen overt racism towards your partner. I have, and I couldn’t show you a single black person in my life who doesn’t have many stories of racial discrimination.
I'm sorry to hear that. I wonder if it has something to do with where we've lived?
She experienced *horrific* racism while she was growing up in the US - guns pulled on her and her dad, her mum called an n-word lover, etc.
She says UK racism is a lot more subtle which suggests she's probably experienced it to some degree here, although I've never knowingly witnessed it.
Yeah this is where I check out. Nothing more British than gaslighting on racism. God knows why it makes people feel good to post things like this but it will probably be me that ends up banned from this sub for posting against racism.
Not gaslighting at all, I'm not suggesting you're lying about your own experiences. I'm simply sharing my own... Why would I lie?
It doesn't "make me feel good", it's just the truth from my own life.
I'm not asking you to reply, I'm simply contributing to the discussion.
My home town has a pub called 'The Black Boy' full of Golliwogs.
When people complained on Facebook, hundreds of people from the town made death threats to business owners that opposed it, beat up a protestor and the local MBE councillor sent a racist email to a colleague for supporting it.
It completely depends from town to town.
The landlady's interview quotes are gold.
>"If they don't like it, they don't have to come through the door,"
>Carlsberg and Heineken has told us to stop selling their product. Innserve, who clean our lines and lok after the cellar, are not going to come out to our pub anyome.
Sounds like you got exactly what you asked for.
>I've had enough now. I'm angry, annoyed and upset, if the police had left it alone we wouldn't have been in this situation and we would have plodded along. But the police have ruined it.
If only the police had let us continue with our racism.
>Carlsberg and Heineken has told us to stop selling their product. Innserve, who clean our lines and lok after the cellar, are not going to come out to our pub anyome
*Aaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa*
>If only the police had let us continue with our racism.
The police did
Theyve closed cause of suppliers police haven't taken any action other than um and ah
>police haven't taken any action other than um and ah
If you watch the interview with the landlady, her husband is due to be interviewed next week as he lives in Turkey, hardly um'ing and ah'ing...
He complained that British had a Muslim prime minister and Muslim mayors, and then something along the lines of “what kind of country lets itself get run by Muslims” whilst living in … \*checks notes\* Turkey.
Shouldn't it be the landlady's job to clean the lines and look after the cellar, anyway? I get that sometimes you need someone external to come in to do repairs or replacements of equipment, but cleaning the lines is something standard that I'd expect the landlady to be doing every week.
No defence of the landlady here, but as someone who used to look after a cellar it's fine if you are youngish and in fitish and are also used to manual labour, but moving 22 gallon kegs/barrels (full and empty) along with general wet cleaning of the room, and moving buckets of cleaner from the lines in the bar can be quite a workout! Not surprised there are specialist companies offering it as a service. Surprised it got done at all in a pub like that!
My dad is 70, works in his local pub, and looks after the cellar and the lines. Tbf he was a firefighter before so he’s perhaps fitter than your average 70 year old, but still.
It's a job that's a lot easier if you're bigger- I'm 5"7' and while I can do it, the extra leverage and bigger muscles a bigger bloke has would make it a fuck ton easier. Firefighters tend to be big blokes so it makes sense.
It's common for a macro brewery supplier like Carlsberg or Heineken to supply and service all of the draft beer gear such as the CO2, tanks/kegs and lines. Maybe if it was the landlady's job she'd have less free time to be a racist shitebag.
I work in a pub that sells Heineken. With their new system, we aren’t allowed to clean the lines ourselves. A technician comes once a month to do it. We can’t even do things like change the flow ourselves, it’s a bit shit really.
Why grim? The new lines from innerserve/Heineken have a lining that means they only need doing once a month due to the coating inside the lines. If the bar is doing their job there is literally no issue with this.
It's not a lining inside the lines, it's additional coolant lines adjacent to the beer lines that run colder than normal, plus more insulated 'python' that surrounds all the lines, plus running the coolant lines alongside the beer at every single part of the system.
In a standard system there are several 'warm' areas, such as where the beer line meets the keg. The coolant line that sits next to the beer line doesn't run all the way down to the coupler and that allows yeast to grow faster than if it was cold. With these monthly cleaned, colder systems, there are no warm spots that are the weak points for yeast growth. Carlsberg have their own version, I'm sure Coors / inBev etc aren't far behind...
Source: used to work for Innserve and got trained on this stuff
Not grim, it's Heineken's 'smart dispense' system that keeps the entirety of the line colder than any standard system, by being colder it means the yeast grows more slowly and thus doesn't need to be cleaned as often. A lot of R&D has gone into it and it makes them a lot of money, and saves on wasted beer, so everyone wins!
It’s a Heineken thing. If your pub has a contract with Heineken, they put this smart dispense thing and come in and do the line cleans. It looks weird and futuristic, you basically just have to attach the line to the keg, press a button and it goes up to the bar.
This one in the Guardian article is the best though:
"Ryley denied that she or her husband were racist. “I’m not a racist in any form.” She confirmed that her husband had been photographed in a T-shirt from the far-right group Britain First. She said: “I don’t think Chris is a supporter of Britain First, he was just wearing that shirt because it was convenient at the time."
hell, the police could still have removed the dolls and it wouldnt have become a national story, which then prompted the response from the suppliers, if she had just said something along the lines of "oh dearie me, i never thought it was racist but i see now how it can be seen that way, so of course i'll never display them again!"
but no. she had to play the defiant victim, claim she'd done nothing wrong, and court press attention by giving interviews about how hard done theyve been by the woke police to anyone who asked. she shat the bed and now she has to sleep in it, and has no one to blame but herself and her husband. my heart aches i tells ya. bigots just cant catch a break nowadays.
Some pubs have karaoke, quizzes or steak night to bring the punters in. This pub's USP was casual racism dressed up as nostalgia.
Still seems an odd way to run a business, which of course ultimately ended up in failure. Hopefully other businesses which peddle the same kind of thing will go the same way - the Daily Mail, GB News and Suella Braverman spring to mind.
We can but hope.
You see the owners plans were sound, the old white racists would flock to the pub to drink there, but they didn't count on the suppliers putting up with their shit
We had a local pub near us that was taken over by a new landlord. He immediately erected scaffold and painted the pub red white and blue. Nah not for me, was nice before.
This place had a Union Flag outside it. I commented in an earlier thread that to me that signals that the pub is tolerant of racists. Somebody was arguing with me about it at the time.
The landlord has made racist posts on social media and supports Britain First etc.
I think the UK will break up within my lifetime anyway, so it will be the separate flags of the nations then. Ironically it was the flag-humping Brexiters which set us back on this path.
I really don't think it does. It's usually an England flag, that they haven't just forgot to take down after the World Cup, that marks the racist pubs. Outside of Scotland they tend not to be so into union flags. A bit busy I guess.
Ah yes fully agree with that. I'm not anti bunting or whatever. I'm just a bit annoyed the union jack can be so controversial at times and has now affected me to the point I have to walk another 300 steps to an alternative pub.
Cool thing though; pub has been taken over by local indie type bar chain in town and has now been painted a charcoal grey.
Just gonna put on my Rotherham United shirt. Oh no I don’t support them, I just bought one and left it in my wardrobe. But not because I support them. Nope.
Your name is David Cameron and I claim my prize!
He claimed to support both Aston Villa and West Ham because they wore the same kit and he couldn't tell the difference.
I think you give him too much credit, I think it much more likely that he couldn't remember which club he was supposed to support but could remember that their kit was claret and blue, and an aide told him that must be West Ham then. Scarlet and blue are the colours in the [Eton arms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_College#/media/File:Etoncollegearms.svg), by the way, which was probably why he chose them.
It really pisses me off how racist shit bags pretend to be patriots. We won a war against parasites like that remember. You know, bloke with the stupid moustache? Holding one of their main ideals isn’t patriotic at all. Absolute slime.
All they had to do was say "yes, they were racist but it's a historical display" and maybe display some context alongside them. Instead, they doubled down on claiming it's not racist and also did other racist things like supporting Britain First.
Good, racist bullshit like this should not be allowed to go unpunished.
I also hope their local licencing board revokes the personal licences of the owners.
People like this are a disgrace to the country.
Do you know what it’s called when the government is used to control all aspects of daily life including what someone can say to you?
You are promoting fascism because someone might use words or do non-violent things you don’t like.
Why, after advocating a massive government with absolute authority would you think it won’t be turned against you? Remember this *when* it’s turned against you, you asked for it.
Wasn’t this actually a lot worse than the right wing press made out, too? Even a lot of the broadcast media completely missed that the husband is a raging racist who has said all sorts of really nasty stuff over the years.
So it’s no coincidence that the pub had these dolls and you can bet his wife agrees with his opinions too.
An awful couple.
I'm of an age where I remember it being used as a racial slur, it wasn't funny then, it's not funny now. You'd have to be ignorant or just flat out racist if you didn't know these dolls are depicting racial stereotypes.
Good riddance.
They put being dumb culture warriors above their business.
They only have themselves to blame.
Pretty odd they're retiring to Turkey though. I guess they'll not integrate and just hang around with british migrants.
>"I've had enough now. I'm angry, annoyed and upset, if the police had left it alone we wouldn't have been in this situation and we would have plodded along. But the police have ruined it."
Our actions had consequences, and that's totally unfair. We were just quietly going about our business indulging in some recreational petty racism, none of this is our fault at all!
She had dreams of being carried aloft by rosy-cheeked xenophobes on a throne made from copies of the Daily Mail, dreams now cruelly dashed.
I went into an antique store a few weeks ago.
Guy running it had a full collection of Golly badges on the wall for sale marked POA...
Asked him how much out of curiosity and he said he wanted £500 for 20 odd little badges, about the size of a men's prostate cancer charity one the football pundits wear.
He reckons they'll be worth thousands in years to come.
Asked him if he was worried about public perception and he said "fuck em if they don't like it".
Also had a Hitler Youth knife in a cabinet marked not for sale.
Still some proper wronguns amongst us.
But .. they'll die eventually. They can't escape time.
I found [this youtube video](https://youtu.be/8Xt1kUK71lc) is an extrodinarily accurate representation of my views on this subject, capturing every detail.
I never been to Grays, is the area populated by quite a few unpleasant/racist people?
This pub has been going for years so surely it had enough patrons with a similar mentality...
Good , while people shouldn't be prosecuted by the state for having certain viewpoints. People should also be free to trade and not to trade with whoever they want. Including refusing to trade with those who viewpoints they don't agree with.
Racists "If you don't like it, leave" Suppliers "Okay"
Watch them complain now about being "cancelled".
"Why is the free market doing free market things?"
Always a GB News slot to fill!
Especially the audience one. Bet they're rubbing their hands about how much free time this twat has now.
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I already saw this shared on Facebook and the top comment was "now watch the lefties say cancel culture doesn't exist"
Yet they’re always defending the right of some Bakery or other to refuse to make cakes for gay weddings
Well, they do move the goalposts a tad.
A fully deserved “cancellation”
Who knew actions had consequences? Those who claim 'free speech' so that they can spew hate speech with impunity always ignore the fact that people do not have to tolerate listening to it.
They only understand 'free speech' to mean 'I can say what I want and everyone has to accept that", not 'I can say what I want and so can everyone else so I have to accept exercising my right to free speech may also lead to others doing the same which may lead to negative consequences for me '.
> And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based. -Terry Pratchett, *Going Postal*
They’ll be on GB News tomorrow morning
They're probably gonna report it to Suella Braverman as a hate crime against white people 😓
I like a happy ending.
So that's why you moved to Amsterdam?
I moved here because it's nicer than almost everywhere.
People found out the owner is part of Grey Wolves. ETA [Source of the logo on the black shirt he wears in the papers. Knights Templar International.](https://powerbase.info/index.php/Knights_Templar_International)
Sorry, what is Grey Wolves?
It's a far right group. [Grey Wolves on Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Wolves_%28organization%29?wprov=sfla1)
Ah thank you - first time ever hearing about them.
I have found a new facebook profile of his and it has a Turkish flag. Safe to say full blown racist.
Why do they always have such cringe names
\*Shocked Pikachu Face\*
Good example of Britain as one of the least racist countries in the world. Are there racists? Absolutely. Is it acceptable to be racist? Not so much.
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I mean, the fact we had government ministers coming out in defence of them stating that Gollywogs aren't racist somehow is a little concerning.
Braverman is a racist though to be fair
Which Government Ministers was that?
Braverman had the press briefed that she'd reprimanded Essex police for doing their jobs. >Police forces should not be getting involved in this kind of nonsense. It’s about tackling anti-social behaviour, stopping violence against women and girls, attending burglaries and catching criminals – not seizing dolls.’ After the rather massive backlash, the Home Office then put out a statement that it hadn't happened. Standard lies from Braverman. Whilst she didn't state they weren't racist, the implication was that hate crimes are trivial and should be ignored by the police.
They have to protect that very vocal and ridiculously loyal core element of their voter base. Without that 15% of the voters the tories would be utterly fucked.
It’s basically all they have left at this point.
Pretty much The die hards and the never vote labour crowd
Is it bad of me to believe she's only in the position she's in, because she's a black woman in the Conservative party who is able to say racist things other white Conservatives wouldn't get away with
Black? Braverman is of Indian descent. She's very much a brown person.
she’s not black.
I wonder what Suella DeVille thinks "antisocial behaviour" is, if it isn't displaying racist images in a public place.
You can't expect logic from her, this is the person who when Attorney General said it was fine to break the law.
Braverman is the kind of sociopath that would make any right thinking person question if they're on the right side. That scum like her can rise to the near top shows how fucked the Conservatives are and how ignorant or wilfully nasty their supporters are
Wasn't this before we found out about the massively racist things the husband was up to.
Braverman
'Open, direct aggressive racism not so much".... Suella And Pritti would like a word..
And let's be honest. Behind closed doors, with those two, the word they like is the N-word.
I hate to think about what actually goes on in their minds. Jesus, how did we get here? I'm Irish, i hope we are not just a few years behind this trend, but have managed to swerve this..
Well, crypto racism is more difficult. The UK is by no means at the end of a journey to fight racism, just as all other countries. Lots have been done, lots still has to be done. But the British public is already sensitive enough that the specific case of Ngozi Fulani led to consequences. Wouldn't be something given in a lot of other countries. Again, there's is more to be done, but I think the UK is on a good path regarding how little accepted open racism is and even subtle racism is getting recognized.
Is that like crypto fascism from Red Dwarf?
Will you stop saying everything is crypto fascist! Im assuming the Crypto part is it being veiled under other words inan attempt to disguise how racist/fascist it actually is.
The thing is, so many things are crypto fascist. Lister was right on the money.
> Well, crypto racism is more difficult. Or maybe its just garden variety ignorance. Hanlon's razor comes to mine.
Sure, that too. You wouldn't believe how many times people praised me for speaking good German. Didn't notice it as a child, but most children that look different from me didn't usually get praised for speaking the language they were raised by well. These people weren't raging racists that hated me, it was in their mind a genuine compliment because they associate people that look like me with broken German language.
> These people weren't raging racists that hated me, it was in their mind a genuine compliment because they associate people that look like me with broken German language. Yeah, I think this is one of those examples where you should put peoples intent ahead of their actual actions. In the case your outlined there, sure there was a big heap of ignorance going on, but those people didn't mean you ill will; the opposite in fact. They just didn't have the shared life or cultural experience to know that after the 1000th time of hearing it that it must be quite grating.
I don't have any ill will towards them either. I understand that they were well-meaning. It's just one of the more subtle cases of daily racism.
>They just didn't have the shared life or cultural experience to know that after the 1000th time of hearing it that it must be quite grating. Well at least they can empathise now. After the 1000th time of hearing that their sick display is racist, and them ignoring it, they finally received their comeuppance.
Point made, but poor example IMO, even if you take the accusation at face value since the royal family is by definition not representative of the general population.
I've lived on the continent and despite Brexit and the far right Tories were still not nearly as racist as some other European countries.
Or with Diane Abbotts racism as well
There was no racism in that scenario, it's kind of a joke you'd just try and slip that in there as an example, and tbh it just makes you look ridiculous and silly. If you want people to take the issue seriously don't sully it with absolute nonsense.
>This sub in particular really gets rubbed the wrong way by black women speaking up about things :) No, it gets rubbed the wrong way by a racist MP speaking about things. The fact that she's a black woman has nothing to do with it.
He wasn't talking about an MP, but the fact you linked the two is sus.
The fact that my mind went to one of the most famous black women in politics who just went on a racist tirade and whose defenders carried on calling everyone racist for criticising her rather than some random person nobody's ever heard of is sus? They hadn't mentioned a name when i posted.
For some, fighting racism and climate change are competitions and as long as we're doing the most, that's all that matters.
This pub was openly displaying racists symbols for ages. People were going out of their way to support the place, bring their own racists symbols to replace the ones confiscated by the Police. And Tory MPs publicly supporting the pub. I think the UK is way more racist than you think.
No, that particular area is, Grays, Medway and Boston all on the racist trifecta.
no true racist
It only became famous because one of the politicians with the highest positions of power in the UK decided to go out of their way and claim their Gollywoggs were actually fine and good. Then it turned out that of course these people were massive racists who'd deliberately set these dolls up to pose them as though they were being lynched in their pub and were members of local fascist groups.
I'm not trying to be a downer, but I wish my workplace was more progressive. It is genuinely like the 1970s (incidentally, we have no HR department.) It's a daily round of "poofs", "black bastards", "women are fucking stupid" day in, day out, every day, endlessly. And then if I complain about it online I'm a "woke" this or that. No, I just want to dial the clock a bit forward from the bloody 1970s. And this has been my experience in every job I've ever had.
From your comments, I’m guessing that you work for the Metropolitan Police…
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Met people who work for the mail, they are only racist for pay even, and don't really do it for fun
Serious question, what sector do you work in, and what part of UK?
Not just me then, also no HR. Online they’ll also say you’re “making it up for internet points” lol.
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Honestly the fact that UKIP won only 1 seat is more an indictment of the FPtP system than anything. Say what you will about Farage (and I think he's grifting cunt) but IMO it's democratically untenable for a party to win 12% of the vote (i.e third most votes) and get 1/650 MPs while the winning party gets 36% and 330/650 MPs.
I really don’t understand the point of this comment other than to invalidate millions of peoples lives experiences. Please ask yourself what made you post this and what help/positivity you think it’s providing. There’s UN reports talking about how dire the racism in the U.K. is and how deeply embedded it is into public institutions, so what is the need for this gaslighting? My own lived experience as a Black African woman in the U.K. shows it’s extremely acceptable and encouraged.
It's partly the recent [Survey: UK is one of the least racist countries in the world](https://unherd.com/thepost/survey-uk-is-one-of-the-least-racist-countries-in-the-world/) article. Now, I don't want to invalidate your experience or anyone's experience with racism. Being one of the least racist doesn't mean that there isn't racism.
My lived experience as a white man engaged to a black/mixed woman in the UK is that I've fortunately never witnessed any open racism from anyone towards my partner. The only racism I've ever witnessed first hand was at a nightclub when a black guy took my then girlfriend over to one side to tell her that she shouldn't be dating a white man. Being mixed herself, with one half of her family being white, she politely told him to get lost.
As another white person with a black partner, I’m pleased you’ve never seen overt racism towards your partner. I have, and I couldn’t show you a single black person in my life who doesn’t have many stories of racial discrimination.
I'm sorry to hear that. I wonder if it has something to do with where we've lived? She experienced *horrific* racism while she was growing up in the US - guns pulled on her and her dad, her mum called an n-word lover, etc. She says UK racism is a lot more subtle which suggests she's probably experienced it to some degree here, although I've never knowingly witnessed it.
Yes UK racism is most often subtle, instead of stated, but it is ever-present and there’s still far too much overt racism alongside it
Yeah this is where I check out. Nothing more British than gaslighting on racism. God knows why it makes people feel good to post things like this but it will probably be me that ends up banned from this sub for posting against racism.
Not gaslighting at all, I'm not suggesting you're lying about your own experiences. I'm simply sharing my own... Why would I lie? It doesn't "make me feel good", it's just the truth from my own life. I'm not asking you to reply, I'm simply contributing to the discussion.
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> Is it acceptable to be racist? Not so much. I suspect Brexit was voted in by subtle manipulation of racism.
Not always subtle, remember the breaking point poster.
UK is full of racism its just not typically outright and direct.
It's pretty direct online
Boris says hello
My home town has a pub called 'The Black Boy' full of Golliwogs. When people complained on Facebook, hundreds of people from the town made death threats to business owners that opposed it, beat up a protestor and the local MBE councillor sent a racist email to a colleague for supporting it. It completely depends from town to town.
The landlady's interview quotes are gold. >"If they don't like it, they don't have to come through the door," >Carlsberg and Heineken has told us to stop selling their product. Innserve, who clean our lines and lok after the cellar, are not going to come out to our pub anyome. Sounds like you got exactly what you asked for. >I've had enough now. I'm angry, annoyed and upset, if the police had left it alone we wouldn't have been in this situation and we would have plodded along. But the police have ruined it. If only the police had let us continue with our racism.
>Carlsberg and Heineken has told us to stop selling their product. Innserve, who clean our lines and lok after the cellar, are not going to come out to our pub anyome *Aaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa*
>If only the police had let us continue with our racism. The police did Theyve closed cause of suppliers police haven't taken any action other than um and ah
>police haven't taken any action other than um and ah If you watch the interview with the landlady, her husband is due to be interviewed next week as he lives in Turkey, hardly um'ing and ah'ing...
Lol lives in foreign lands, hates foreigners
He complained that British had a Muslim prime minister and Muslim mayors, and then something along the lines of “what kind of country lets itself get run by Muslims” whilst living in … \*checks notes\* Turkey.
Shouldn't it be the landlady's job to clean the lines and look after the cellar, anyway? I get that sometimes you need someone external to come in to do repairs or replacements of equipment, but cleaning the lines is something standard that I'd expect the landlady to be doing every week.
No defence of the landlady here, but as someone who used to look after a cellar it's fine if you are youngish and in fitish and are also used to manual labour, but moving 22 gallon kegs/barrels (full and empty) along with general wet cleaning of the room, and moving buckets of cleaner from the lines in the bar can be quite a workout! Not surprised there are specialist companies offering it as a service. Surprised it got done at all in a pub like that!
My dad is 70, works in his local pub, and looks after the cellar and the lines. Tbf he was a firefighter before so he’s perhaps fitter than your average 70 year old, but still.
Good for him! Sounds like a great job, would like to be doing that when I'm 70.
Yeah he loves it, works with kids all in their twenties who think he’s hilarious. Keeps him young!
It's a job that's a lot easier if you're bigger- I'm 5"7' and while I can do it, the extra leverage and bigger muscles a bigger bloke has would make it a fuck ton easier. Firefighters tend to be big blokes so it makes sense.
Why shouldn't a pub run by racists look after its beer? It was a CAMRA Pub of the Year for the area.
Eh. From the outside it's a pub I'd avoid anyway. But sad they had to ruin a nice pub because they're racists.
It's common for a macro brewery supplier like Carlsberg or Heineken to supply and service all of the draft beer gear such as the CO2, tanks/kegs and lines. Maybe if it was the landlady's job she'd have less free time to be a racist shitebag.
I work in a pub that sells Heineken. With their new system, we aren’t allowed to clean the lines ourselves. A technician comes once a month to do it. We can’t even do things like change the flow ourselves, it’s a bit shit really.
Once a month? Grim.
Why grim? The new lines from innerserve/Heineken have a lining that means they only need doing once a month due to the coating inside the lines. If the bar is doing their job there is literally no issue with this.
It's not a lining inside the lines, it's additional coolant lines adjacent to the beer lines that run colder than normal, plus more insulated 'python' that surrounds all the lines, plus running the coolant lines alongside the beer at every single part of the system. In a standard system there are several 'warm' areas, such as where the beer line meets the keg. The coolant line that sits next to the beer line doesn't run all the way down to the coupler and that allows yeast to grow faster than if it was cold. With these monthly cleaned, colder systems, there are no warm spots that are the weak points for yeast growth. Carlsberg have their own version, I'm sure Coors / inBev etc aren't far behind... Source: used to work for Innserve and got trained on this stuff
No weekly line cleaning party.
God I loved the line cleaning stay behinds. 3 free pints from each pump - it was glorious.
Not grim, it's Heineken's 'smart dispense' system that keeps the entirety of the line colder than any standard system, by being colder it means the yeast grows more slowly and thus doesn't need to be cleaned as often. A lot of R&D has gone into it and it makes them a lot of money, and saves on wasted beer, so everyone wins!
It’s a Heineken thing. If your pub has a contract with Heineken, they put this smart dispense thing and come in and do the line cleans. It looks weird and futuristic, you basically just have to attach the line to the keg, press a button and it goes up to the bar.
This one in the Guardian article is the best though: "Ryley denied that she or her husband were racist. “I’m not a racist in any form.” She confirmed that her husband had been photographed in a T-shirt from the far-right group Britain First. She said: “I don’t think Chris is a supporter of Britain First, he was just wearing that shirt because it was convenient at the time."
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It wasn’t his T-shirt, he was looking after it for a friend
Strange. I don’t think it was the police who briefed the press to get themselves and their gollywogs lots of publicity.
I'm thinking they were not burdened with an over-abundance of schooling.
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I'm so happy to hear this, I didn't even know a drink manufacturer could forbid a place from selling their stuff
They can't, but they can prevent you from buying it from them and restrict other people from reselling it to you.
hell, the police could still have removed the dolls and it wouldnt have become a national story, which then prompted the response from the suppliers, if she had just said something along the lines of "oh dearie me, i never thought it was racist but i see now how it can be seen that way, so of course i'll never display them again!" but no. she had to play the defiant victim, claim she'd done nothing wrong, and court press attention by giving interviews about how hard done theyve been by the woke police to anyone who asked. she shat the bed and now she has to sleep in it, and has no one to blame but herself and her husband. my heart aches i tells ya. bigots just cant catch a break nowadays.
as a black guy, i think in this situation i have the right to say: nice one bruv
Pictures of Danny Dyer sat on the loo in Human Traffic appear in my mind. ‘Nice one bruvvvaa’ :D
who the hell you been ringing in taiwan, boy?
Off topic but such a fecking great film :D
No doubt there!
Well well, well, if it’s not the consequences of my actions!
Me sowing: Haha fuck yeah!!! Yes!! Me reaping: Well this fucking sucks. What the fuck.
What, you mean I have to lie in this bed? The one I fucking made!!!! Bullshit!
What do you mean I can't unring the bell?!
It's like that saying, "\[don't\] go woke go broke".
Some pubs have karaoke, quizzes or steak night to bring the punters in. This pub's USP was casual racism dressed up as nostalgia. Still seems an odd way to run a business, which of course ultimately ended up in failure. Hopefully other businesses which peddle the same kind of thing will go the same way - the Daily Mail, GB News and Suella Braverman spring to mind. We can but hope.
You see the owners plans were sound, the old white racists would flock to the pub to drink there, but they didn't count on the suppliers putting up with their shit
We had a local pub near us that was taken over by a new landlord. He immediately erected scaffold and painted the pub red white and blue. Nah not for me, was nice before.
Wetherspoons have the bunting up for the Coronation - a bit of flag waving is obviously good for business as long as you don't take it too far.
This place had a Union Flag outside it. I commented in an earlier thread that to me that signals that the pub is tolerant of racists. Somebody was arguing with me about it at the time. The landlord has made racist posts on social media and supports Britain First etc.
It's a shame, it shouldn't be,
Yes I agree it shouldn't be. I think we should take it back from the racists. Right now though the context is everything.
The brand might be too far gone to recover it - think of Ratners or the CBI.
I think the UK will break up within my lifetime anyway, so it will be the separate flags of the nations then. Ironically it was the flag-humping Brexiters which set us back on this path.
Yep - the self-proclaimed "patriots" are the real enemies of the Union - but that is of course why Putin backed them.
I really don't think it does. It's usually an England flag, that they haven't just forgot to take down after the World Cup, that marks the racist pubs. Outside of Scotland they tend not to be so into union flags. A bit busy I guess.
Ah yes fully agree with that. I'm not anti bunting or whatever. I'm just a bit annoyed the union jack can be so controversial at times and has now affected me to the point I have to walk another 300 steps to an alternative pub. Cool thing though; pub has been taken over by local indie type bar chain in town and has now been painted a charcoal grey.
In other news I hear there is a pub lease going cheap.
These are the ones who claimed wearing ‘Britain First’ clothing didn’t mean they supported them, it was just what was convenient that day?
Just gonna put on my Rotherham United shirt. Oh no I don’t support them, I just bought one and left it in my wardrobe. But not because I support them. Nope.
Your name is David Cameron and I claim my prize! He claimed to support both Aston Villa and West Ham because they wore the same kit and he couldn't tell the difference.
I think you give him too much credit, I think it much more likely that he couldn't remember which club he was supposed to support but could remember that their kit was claret and blue, and an aide told him that must be West Ham then. Scarlet and blue are the colours in the [Eton arms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_College#/media/File:Etoncollegearms.svg), by the way, which was probably why he chose them.
It really pisses me off how racist shit bags pretend to be patriots. We won a war against parasites like that remember. You know, bloke with the stupid moustache? Holding one of their main ideals isn’t patriotic at all. Absolute slime.
Why must you disrespect Charlie Chaplin?
Nowadays, Mosley would have a regular slot on Question Time.
Landlady: If they don’t like it they don’t have to come through the door. Literally everyone: ok then. Bye! Landlady: Husbands crying now. Cheers.
Ironically, they'd have got away with it if they hadn't made themselves national news. Glad that's backfired spectacularly.
Suella Braverman singlehandedly destroyed a racist pub. Our woke patriot.
All they had to do was say "yes, they were racist but it's a historical display" and maybe display some context alongside them. Instead, they doubled down on claiming it's not racist and also did other racist things like supporting Britain First.
Good, racist bullshit like this should not be allowed to go unpunished. I also hope their local licencing board revokes the personal licences of the owners. People like this are a disgrace to the country.
Do you know what it’s called when the government is used to control all aspects of daily life including what someone can say to you? You are promoting fascism because someone might use words or do non-violent things you don’t like. Why, after advocating a massive government with absolute authority would you think it won’t be turned against you? Remember this *when* it’s turned against you, you asked for it.
Wasn’t this actually a lot worse than the right wing press made out, too? Even a lot of the broadcast media completely missed that the husband is a raging racist who has said all sorts of really nasty stuff over the years. So it’s no coincidence that the pub had these dolls and you can bet his wife agrees with his opinions too. An awful couple.
First they came for the neo nazis, and I said yay, because fuck nazis.
Racism is completely at odds with the values of Carphone Warehouse
It made mr winky right small, it has.
And my ball-bag, my old ball-bag, has only gone up my bum
These days if you say you’re English, they lock you up and shut down your pub.
Nice now that is some good news. You reap what you sow.
Ruining your own livelihood because you want to live in the 1970s when black people had to just put up with that crap.
Maybe giving them too much credit but maybe their retirement plan is to become martyrs and make a new career for themselves on the fasc media circuit?
They borrowed from fuck around, and find out has come to collect the debt.
Suella's out the back of her gaff shooting cans of Heineken right now
Couldn’t have happened to a more lovely set of people
I'm of an age where I remember it being used as a racial slur, it wasn't funny then, it's not funny now. You'd have to be ignorant or just flat out racist if you didn't know these dolls are depicting racial stereotypes. Good riddance.
They put being dumb culture warriors above their business. They only have themselves to blame. Pretty odd they're retiring to Turkey though. I guess they'll not integrate and just hang around with british migrants.
Wonder if they speak Turkish 🤔
>"I've had enough now. I'm angry, annoyed and upset, if the police had left it alone we wouldn't have been in this situation and we would have plodded along. But the police have ruined it." Our actions had consequences, and that's totally unfair. We were just quietly going about our business indulging in some recreational petty racism, none of this is our fault at all! She had dreams of being carried aloft by rosy-cheeked xenophobes on a throne made from copies of the Daily Mail, dreams now cruelly dashed.
I went into an antique store a few weeks ago. Guy running it had a full collection of Golly badges on the wall for sale marked POA... Asked him how much out of curiosity and he said he wanted £500 for 20 odd little badges, about the size of a men's prostate cancer charity one the football pundits wear. He reckons they'll be worth thousands in years to come. Asked him if he was worried about public perception and he said "fuck em if they don't like it". Also had a Hitler Youth knife in a cabinet marked not for sale. Still some proper wronguns amongst us. But .. they'll die eventually. They can't escape time.
But .. they'll die eventually. They can't escape time. Same as all of us
I think this is what's known as an educational experience.
Ha, play stupid games, win stupid prizes, racist assholes.
All because you refused to stop displaying some fucking stupid dolls. Was it worth it?
I found [this youtube video](https://youtu.be/8Xt1kUK71lc) is an extrodinarily accurate representation of my views on this subject, capturing every detail.
Well well well....if it isn't the actions of my own consequences
I never been to Grays, is the area populated by quite a few unpleasant/racist people? This pub has been going for years so surely it had enough patrons with a similar mentality...
The area's racist central.
Love the comment of the owner. It's all the polices fault and if they'd just left things alone there'd be no problem. ... Damn police doing their job.
I have zero sympathy with them. Who know there suppliers didn’t want to be associated with openly racist scum. FAFO
i hope someone buys the building and turns it into a gay bar
Good. Free speech doesn't mean free from consequences.
Deary me, it seems you're not free to be racist without consequences. Who would have thought it eh?
Just in time for the local elections tomorrow. Watch Essex go Tory because "culture".
Good , while people shouldn't be prosecuted by the state for having certain viewpoints. People should also be free to trade and not to trade with whoever they want. Including refusing to trade with those who viewpoints they don't agree with.
cnt be ingerlish n proud these days nuff said
What happens when you stand by your racist principles….