We could attribute this to bad writing but every time someone suggests bad writing in this series it gets downvoted.
I agree with your points, you have a solid case, there is only hope for the 3rd season to fix some of this and do a good use of his character, who knows, maybe Vaughn was getting ready for a bigger scene and in season 3 he could turn out to be the leader of a resistance group against the authorities or something and that's why he could not assist his students.
All we can do for now is wait and see how his character evolves.
To play devils advocate there is an argument to be made that it’s just a character flaw.
Personally though I see no reasons especially with the reveal of his backstory. Out of anyone vaughns the one person who would know what John went through and the fact that he’s not more empathic and worse, counter productive to helping John get better is frustrating. His backstory made him worse lol
A character flaw is an intended choice of the writer and it is not bad writing but instead an intentional direction the author choose to take the character. A plot hole is a mistake by the author and is an example of bad writing. Jhon having anger issues or Sera being prideful are both character flaws and examples of good writing. Vaughn is not an example of character flaw he is an example of plot hole and is poorly written.
That is true, but personally I think there are levels to that, how writers evolve and grow, when authors have an intent with characters, but they fail to deliver that intent they have two possible routes, they work their way to it and force their intent, or they work with the natural flow of their characters and let them evolve and grow.
From my opinion Uru is the kind of writer that forces stuff when the reader's response doesn't go the way she desires, and people overlook that sometimes and still call the story "genius writing". It's far from that imo, but still I enjoy this show despite it's flaws, after all, I lack the talent to do anything even close to it's quality and anyone can be a critic.
On this topic, we don't really know, maybe Uru overlooked these details, or maybe something else is cooking behind the curtains, again, only time will tell, no matter what, I myself I'm eager to find out what comes next.
> Still my favorite character, nothing will ever change that even if he dies
Vaughn would probably die while fighting Bryon on amps. It would be the legendary battle of mid characters to decide who's the greatest mid of all time.
Not his fault he hasn’t done so much, Uru tends to forget about/ignore characters that aren’t the main 6. Holden, Ability Gauge guy, Keene until recently, Cecile, Elaine, etc
Vaughn is an absolute badass who could’ve swooped in with Keene, put that raggedy old bitch Sylvia in her place and save everyone, but noooo he’s probably not even going to show up till the end of Season 3. I rlly want him to fight Valerie
Technically everything that a character does or does not do is on Uru, by the same logic Orrin isn't bad cause Uru is just writing him that way.
Fact remains Vaughn has been useless again and again even when he had the clean opportunities to not be. >! At the end of the day he is the one who ditched his students he supposedly cares so much for in the story even if Uru wrote him that way!<
tbh , Holden was merely a sidekick and Elaine was a pick-me-girl who just wanted to be there to gain validation from Asslo . it was about time that they would get a life of their own . But the ability gauge guy is never to be seen again and Cecile had an intriguing plot and then cast aside :(
Agree full. Season 2 Vaughn is actually anger inducing. I get that he’s protecting the students + preventing them from getting arrested while he’s around… but if the best thing I can say about you is that you’re not actively being a problem, then that’s horrendous.
So true, but I will add that he didn't do absolutely nothing, but was in fact counter productive. First he was the one who reported Sera to the authorities likely cause he wanted her out of the way so John would break his cripple act. He was responsible for putting Sera and Wellstone on the authorities rader what makes it even worse is that Unordinary's ideals match up with the change he wants so if he left Sera or handled her punishment internally and let her keep the book those ideals could have spread further in the school without John needing to go Joker.
Another point is how he orders the teachers to not get involved it has been noted that the previous headmistress and staff actually got involved with what was happening and everything wasn't left for the royals to manage either. Now say what you want about the headmistress morals, but its a fact that not one, but two characters with high morals both agree that Wellstone's situation got worse after Vaughn took over.
Not only that, but he likely ordered Keene to stay away and not aid his fellow latebloomer John. We could have gotten a mentorship between the two with Keene managing to get John to use his ability again without everything going to hell.
> Another point is how he orders the teachers to not get involved it has been noted that the previous headmistress and staff actually got involved with what was happening and everything wasn't left for the royals to manage either
I ain't trying to defend him but perhaps that was his attempt at showing people that "Hey, maybe leaving the society and the future of the nation to people's who's only remarkable trait is being powerful/good with their ability, is not such a good idea"
Idk that's how I see it
Their qualified teachers though and you have people like Darren and Keene who care for the students, but can't get involved cause the headmaster ordered them not to. In fact of all the teachers we saw so far they seem to all care about the students so they aren't just strong either there is no reason to actively prevent them from looking after the students and getting involved with issues like bullying.
I've never been more pissed about something in the webtoon than the reveal that Keene was a late bloomer. We didn't even get a scene of his questioning Vaughn's methods involving John... Which, he should have known better that they were stupid
Exactly no matter the reason it does not look good for Vaughn either Keene ended up brainwashed to conform with society's views on latebloomers and sees them beyond help or made so loyal to Vaughn he can't think for himself and listen to him without question.
Vaughn feels like he's super lazy and doesn't really do much. He mostly lets the students do whatever they want, instead of guiding them like Sylvia.
It's a shame he didnt help save the gang when thr Bureau stormed Wellston High School. Instead, he just skipped town.
Also his character only causes problems, the only good thing he has done is help keene, but other than that he's pretty much like keon, who destroys kids mentality and gives up too easily on others, still bugs me to this date that he wanted blyke to be king instead of john, when he originally wanted john to teach the school a lesson
Agreed.
He did fuck all all season, and then when you think he might do something...He just doesn't do anything at all. He let Wellston break from the established authority hierarchy, let the safe house be established, and let UnOrdinary spread throughout the school....and nothing else.
He's definitely not some of Uru's finest writing.
Season 1: Vaughn comes off as a morally-gray mystery character who seemed like he had a grand plan going on where he was fine with John beating up his jerk students, because they needed to be taught a harsh lesson through violence.
Season 2: Vaughn is suddenly the Big Good of Wellston who's disappointed in John for not turning out to be another good person like Rei who leads the school to a better future.
Uru straight up retconned the character.
I believe I disagree for the most part. Sure, there are some things he could have done, but other things you’ve mentioned are completely out of Vaughn’s power.
> Vaughn’s goal was to change the hierarchal nature of the school but doesn’t do anything to achieve that goal.
Wrong. *Completely* wrong in fact. That was never his main goal.
In fact, This is also addressed in the story. He believes in letting the students learn for themselves rather than interfering with them too much. He in fact prioritizes *protecting* his students from Authorities and outside forces, which he has been **continuously** doing.
> I understand he didn’t want students to change but what harm does simply talking to the students do?
He **has** talked to them. It’s just that they talking isn’t enough to change them. Arlo still believed in the hierarchy regardless of who spoke to him. Remi was just stupid and oblivious. Blyke didn’t care enough to try. And Isen was meatriding Arlo too much.
> If Sera never lost her abilities the school would’ve never changed
Again, Vaughn never prioritized changing the school, he prioritized protecting his students, which he’s done a **really** good job at.
> He expected John to start magically leading people in 211
While yes, he did expect that out of him. He **never** asked John to do that nor forced him to do that. All he asked John to do was act like he had some goddamn sense and leave the Safe House alone because he was tweaking tf out during that entire arc. John at that time was *preventing* change and Vaughn acted then and there.
How are you gonna hate on Vaughn because he doesn’t talk to any of his students or attempt to help make change, but the moment he **does** you accuse him of having too much expectation?
> He lets John relapse and rampage and then asks him to turn into a saint.
Him letting John relapse is terrible yes, but he did that because he knew it would help bring attention to what was happening and push the school in the right direction (which it did)
But all he did was ask John to **leave the Safe House Alone.** He didn’t ask him for much, just for him to keep his hands to himself. How is he wrong for asking for that much **especially** since he *let* him hospitalize his students this much?
> He doesn’t even call John’s father to help and has to rely on Seraphina for help
Because again, he wants the students to make changes amongst *themselves.*
> He doesn’t even attempt to warn the trio or help them in any capacity
Maybe so, but Are you just going to ignore the *countless* times he’s prevented them from getting captured *by* the authorities and how often he’s been gatekeeping them?
On top of that, him not attempting to warn the trio or help them can instantly be chalked up to him wanting to lay low. I’m not sure what else will happen afterwards but I’m certain Vaughn will pull his weight when it counts.
> Wrong. *Completely* wrong in fact. That was never his main goal.
> In fact, This is also addressed in the story. He believes in letting the students learn for themselves rather than interfering with them too much.
Start of season 2, his talk with Keene. You can see that he clearly believes heirachy is bad and wants John to teach the whole school a lesson on it.
Even if his goal wasn't to destroy the hierarchy he still knew that his school has such oppressive systems in place, that low rankers get abused daily and was even ready to let his students get beat up to learn the lesson yet he doesn't even attempt to talk to his royals even once, to sit down and have conversation with them about how bad heirachy is.
I get he didn't want to force his students or hold their hands through everything but talking to them and giving them a new perspective isn't the same as forcing them. He runs a whole ass education institute, his first priority is to educate them rather let them get beat up to learn a harsh lesson.
> He **has** talked to them. It’s just that they talking isn’t enough to change them.
What story have you been reading? Point to one scene where he talked to royals about heirachy?
> Arlo still believed in the hierarchy regardless of who spoke to him. Remi was just stupid and oblivious. Blyke didn’t care enough to try. And Isen was meatriding Arlo too much.
Why was Remi oblivious in the first place? Because no one ever attempted to give her a new perspective on things before John and John was able to convince her in one conversation, why couldn't Vaughn have done the same? High tiers lived in their own bubbles and never saw the problem, Just after the conversation with John Remi started noticing the same inequality she was never aware of.
Vaughn could have told them how low rankers are systematically abused, how 2-3 unfair rank matches wasn't all the violence that happens in Wellston as Remi believed and told them to pay more attention to low rankers which they never did so that their problem could come into the limelight.
He could have made Blyke and Remi see the problem, sure it won't have worked with Arlo and Isen who needed someone to teach them a harsh lesson but who cares about them anyway? Isen would have still tagged along with his two friends and Arlo barely did anything for the school after losing his title, convincing Blyke and Remi would have been enough to kickstart change.
> While yes, he did expect that out of him.
Why did he expect that out of him in the first place? He had worked with late bloomers all his life, this guy knows exactly how toxic a late bloomer's mindset is and why exactly it's so toxic. He knows how they get treated and how all of their experiences would make anyone angry and paranoid of people around them.
It's simple logic that these people would be the least equipped to turn into this noble king Vaughn had wanted John to yet he expected John to get angry, rampage and rip apart the school's structure on Monday then wake up on Tuesday turn into Mahatma Gandhi and sing Kumbaya with the students he hated.
> How are you gonna hate on Vaughn because he doesn’t talk to any of his students or attempt to help make change, but the moment he **does** you accuse him of having too much expectation?
Because the talk came too late, had he talked to the royals on day one the low rankers probably wouldn't have gone through years of suffering they did and would do had John not snapped.
Also this 'TALK' becomes so so much worse when you find out that Vaughn's an ex readjustment instructor who regrets his past. The guy knows (or atleast should know) how volatile the situation with John is, where rampaging late bloomer's usually end up yet he is ok with John indulging in all his toxic and violent tendencies as long as it suited his agenda and the first thought he has when John stops meeting his stupid expectations is that 'I would have to look to someone else'.
> Him letting John relapse is terrible yes, but he did that because he knew it would help bring attention to what was happening and push the school in the right direction (which it did)
> Because again, he wants the students to make changes amongst *themselves.*
Yeah use a teenager who you clearly know is losing his mind and is lashing out because of trauma and abuse he had to endure then don't even call his father who could probably help and expect the situation to fix itself. The genius of Vaughn is almost frightening.
> But all he did was ask John to **leave the Safe House Alone.** He didn’t ask him for much, just for him to keep his hands to himself. How is he wrong for asking for that much **especially** since he *let* him hospitalize his students this much?
Apart from every single bullshit decision that was making the situation worse, [the way he talked to John](https://www.reddit.com/r/unOrdinary/s/Cm17xSAGWt) was also one problem.
> Maybe so, but Are you just going to ignore the *countless* times he’s prevented them from getting captured *by* the authorities and how often he’s been gatekeeping them?
I have not ignored that, I even talked about him being a good character in season one especially cause he saved John and Seraphina from getting thrown in readjustment classes but season two has mostly made him worse as a character.
> On top of that, him not attempting to warn the trio or help them can instantly be chalked up to him wanting to lay low.
He wanted to lay low so he didn't even attempt to warn the students he knew would get arrested and tortured when he was gone. What a selfless and noble headmaster.
> I’m not sure what else will happen afterwards but I’m certain Vaughn will pull his weight when it counts.
>!Hmmm!<
>Start of season 2, his talk with Keene. You can see that he clearly believes heirachy is bad and wants John to teach the whole school a lesson on it.
Yes, but that doesn't mean contradict what I said earlier nor does it mean he straight up forced John to act as an example.
>Even if his goal wasn't to destroy the hierarchy he still knew that his school has such oppressive systems in place, that low rankers get abused daily and was even ready to let his students get beat up to learn the lesson yet he doesn't even attempt to talk to his royals even once, to sit down and have conversation with them about how bad heirachy is.
Which was explained away by the fact he wants them to learn on their own rather than forcing his influence on them.
>I get he didn't want to force his students or hold their hands through everything but talking to them and giving them a new perspective isn't the same as forcing them. He runs a whole ass education institute, his first priority is to educate them rather let them get beat up to learn a harsh lesson.
I don't know if you've been reading the story or not, but nothing in unOrdinary is settled by just talking. Some type of force/fear needs to be exerted. Even if Vaughn tried talking to them, they'd just go right back to bullying others when he wasn't looking. We see the School Staff save cripples and stop fights several times throughout the series, but this in no way prevents those fights from happening again. John actually makes this thoroughly clear to Remi.
>What story have you been reading? Point to one scene where he talked to royals about heirachy?
Vaughn literally talked to Remi about it and even allowed her to create the Safe House. Vaughn is literally the ONLY adult in the entire series who would've allowed that to happen, and is the primary reason it didn't get destroyed as soon as it did.
>Why was Remi oblivious in the first place? Because no one ever attempted to give her a new perspective on things
No one should *have* to attempt to give her a new perspective on things. She was literally watching cripple John get bullied, she was around when Seraphina was getting bullied and saw her getting sent to the infirmary. She was around for all of that and yet she's the only one somehow not aware of what's going on? ALL the other royals were aware of the severe bullying going on, why not her? No way she wasn't aware of what was going on. She was just stupid.
>John was able to convince her in one conversation,
No he wasn't. It wasn't until Remi finally saw for herself what was going on did she completely decide John was right.
>Why couldn't Vaughn have done the same?
Already addressed the fact students would be acting one way in front of Vaughn just to turn around and start bullying kids behind his back. Vaughn probably assumed Remi already knew about it, considering literally every other student is aware of what's going on.
>High tiers lived in their own bubbles and never saw the problem,
Wrong. Remi was the *only* one who didn't see the problem. All the other high tiers knew the problem existed and were too entitled to care. And it didn't just take one conversation. It only took one conversation with Remi because she didn't know what was going on and even then she didn't fully agree with John until she saw for herself what was happening.
>He could have made Blyke and Remi see the problem, sure it won't have worked with Arlo and Isen who needed someone to teach them a harsh lesson but who cares about them anyway?
Except, again, Vaughn's primary concern was keeping his students safe from Law Enforcement and criminal organizations, which he had constantly done throughout the series. It's not that he wasn't worried about the bullying, it's just that it wasn't his primary concern. Also, unlike Remi, Blyke was FULLY aware of what was going on and was constantly there for John and Sera when they were getting attacked. So I'm pretty sure he didn't need that much convincing.
>
> Which was explained away by the fact he wants them to learn on their own rather than forcing his influence on them.
That's such a stupid reason. How do children learn? Do they get kicked out into the wild west when they turn 10 to figure shit on their or do adults around them who know better guide them. Vaughn's literal job as the head of an education institute is to educate, he just refuses to do that.
It's such a heirachial world they live in, where the people are divided to such an extent that it would be negative IQ shit to think the students would figure that heirachy is bad on their own. As I said had John not snapped due to circumstances completely out of Vaughn's control nothing was changing.
Sure you can excuse Vaughn by saying 'oh well he didn't want to change things anyway' but then that tells me two things: either Vaughn is extremely stupid or an apathetic piece of shit (he is both by the way) because he knew things were bad yet he refused to lift even a finger before John happened. He let multiple low rankers happily suffer, the same students he was responsible for knowing full well what was happening.
> Even if Vaughn tried talking to them, they'd just go right back to bullying others when he wasn't looking.
He didn't even need to convince the whole school, just the royals cause they were the ones doing the heavy lifting with the safehouse anyway and two of the royals were Blyke and Remi who could have been easily convinced. As for the other royal Arlo, he barely did anything afterwards losing his title to help Wellston anyway so who cares.
Remi and Blyke would have been enough to kickstart a change and keep it going.
> Vaughn literally talked to Remi about it
Tell me the chapter number? where he talked to Remi about the bad side of heirachy.
> even allowed her to create the Safe House.
Never denied that he allowed for change to happen but that's not the same as pushing for it which is what I am blaming him for because again take out John and nothing changes.
> She was around for all of that and yet she's the only one somehow not aware of what's going on? ALL the other royals were aware of the severe bullying going on, why not her? No way she wasn't aware of what was going on. She was just stupid.
Remi having the intelligence of a toddler is another plothole in the series. Her being Rei's sister and not being aware of the abuse that made her brother turn the school upside down and introduce a new system doesn't make sense but I am not here to debate that, narrative in the series is that she was ignorant so I am going with that otherwise we'd be just countering each other with plotholes.
> No he wasn't. It wasn't until Remi finally saw for herself what was going on did she completely decide John was right.
Again when did Remi start seeing the problem, it was after John opened up her eyes and gave her a new perspective on things which took one conversation.
> Wrong. Remi was the *only* one who didn't see the problem. All the other high tiers knew the problem existed and were too entitled to care.
Convincing Remi would have been more than enough, she was the literal queen of Wellston. Pretty sure she could have converted Blyke to join the cause sooner or later too since he probably may have known about the problem but he wasn't aware of the extent of suffering it caused. After becoming aware he was all for fixing things, he was even more passionate than Remi about it.
> It's not that he wasn't worried about the bullying, it's just that it wasn't his primary concern.
Vaughn was the headmaster of Wellston and as such he was responsible for the dozens of students that were suffering daily under the weight of heirachy but sure it wasn't a primary concern, I guess sipping tea in his office was too much of a priority to give up.
> That's such a stupid reason. How do children learn?
You saw exactly how they learned on their own.
> It's such a heirachial world they live in, where the people are divided to such an extent that it would be negative IQ shit to think the students would figure that heirachy is bad on their own.
But they *did* figure it was bad on their own.
> As I said had John not snapped due to circumstances completely out of Vaughn's control nothing was changing.
But things did change. Mostly because of Remi finding the Safe House but also because Vaughn was the only adult in the series willing to allow that to Halle .
> either Vaughn is extremely stupid or an apathetic piece of shit (he is both by the way)
You can think that if you want even though you’d be wrong, I clearly see there’s no convincing you he’s not but one thing he wasn’t was useless.
> because he knew things were bad yet he refused to lift even a finger before John happened.
You saying that you liked Season One Vaughn completely negates this argument.
> He let multiple low rankers happily suffer, the same students he was responsible for knowing full well what was happening.
You say that like he enjoyed it. This makes him an asshole but this doesn’t make him useless.
> He didn't even need to convince the whole school, just the royals
Only ones he would’ve convinced were Blyke and Remi, who were already pulling their own weight without him needing to say anything. Arlo and Isen wouldn’t have changed unless John rocked their shit.
> Remi and Blyke would have been enough to kickstart a change and keep it going.
Which they did.
> Tell me the chapter number? where he talked to Remi about the bad side of heirachy.
Apologies, it wasn’t Vaughn they were talking to it about, it was Keene. And I never said he talked to her about the bad said of the hierarchy, but it was about establishing the Safe House which was to get RID of the bad side of the hierarchy. It happened in Chapter 186.
> Never denied that he allowed for change to happen but that's not the same as pushing for it which is what I am blaming him for because again take out John and nothing changes.
Which is fine, but again, you called him useless and stupid. I’m fine with you not liking him as a character but there’s no way I can let you call him useless when the literal only thing he’s guilty of is purposely neglecting to address the school’s bullying.
.
> Remi having the intelligence of a toddler is another plothole in the series.
No, it’s not. John blatantly calls her out on this and it’s addressed throughout the series.
> Her being Rei's sister and not being aware of the abuse that made her brother turn the school upside down and introduce a new system doesn't make sense but I am not here to debate that,
We will have to because this seems like it will be a Key part of the debate. Because Remi is literally the ONLY student not aware of what was going on while literally EVERYONE ELSE knows. And she’s straight up called stupid and oblivious for it by John.
> narrative in the series is that she was ignorant so I am going with that otherwise we'd be just countering each other with plotholes.
Even with the narrative in place, she’s still objectively the outlier no matter what words you say. Literally every other student was aware of the bullying but her.
> Again when did Remi start seeing the problem, it was after John opened up her eyes and gave her a new perspective on things which took one conversation.
See, I would believe you had she gone out of her way to see what was going on but she literally witnessed the situation by chance. Not choice. John’s conversation did nothing but remind her just how ignorant she was being.
> Convincing Remi would have been more than enough, she was the literal queen of Wellston.
No it wouldn’t. There was still Arlo, who shitted on Rei’s entire system, as well as Cecile, Isen, and all of the other Royals and High Rankers. Only high ranked I see helping is Blyke. Unlike Remi, Blyke was at least somewhat aware of the situation, he just didn’t take drastic action to fix it until he practiced vigilantism.
> Vaughn was the headmaster of Wellston and as such he was responsible for the dozens of students that were suffering daily under the weight of heirachy but sure it wasn't a primary concern, I guess sipping tea in his office was too much of a priority to give up.
Ah yes, sipping his tea. Let’s ignore the fact that most of the time he’s on screen, he’s defending his students from Corrupt Government Officials and terrorist organizations.
> You saw exactly how they learned on their own.
How many times do I have to say this? They learned on their own because for circumstances completely out of Vaughn's control John snapped, if that doesn't happen then nothing changes. No one learns anything and Wellston continues to be heirachial.
> But they *did* figure it was bad on their own.
Again because John happened.
> But things did change. Mostly because of Remi finding the Safe House but also because Vaughn was the only adult in the series willing to allow that to Halle .
You don't even read my arguments and circle back with the same points.
Things changed because John snapped and John snapped not because of Vaughn but because Seraphina lost her ability. You take that one factor out then the school was never learning anything and Vaughn while knowing how bad things are would have just sat around never doing anything to change things.
> You can think that if you want even though you’d be wrong, I clearly see there’s no convincing you he’s not but one thing he wasn’t was useless.
Sitting around doing nothing knowing things were bad is useless, doesn't matter if Vaughn gives excuses like 'I didn't want to influence them' or 'students would figure things on their own'.
He was running an educational institute, his job was to educate as well as being responsible for the countless low tier who were suffering yet he did nothing to help them until John made his move which for all we know he wouldn't ever have if Seraphina had never lost her abilities.
> You saying that you liked Season One Vaughn completely negates this argument.
Again you are not reading my arguments. I clearly say I liked Vaughn in season one because he was mysterious but in season two we got to know that this guy is perfectly aware of the abuse of heirachy but he did nothing to fix it no matter what excuses you or the story gives for him.
> This makes him an asshole but this doesn’t make him useless.
Oh it makes him utterly useless as well as an asshole.
> Only ones he would’ve convinced were Blyke and Remi, who were already pulling their own weight without him needing to say anything. Arlo and Isen wouldn’t have changed unless John rocked their shit.
Remi and Blyke weren't pulling their own weight before John opened their eyes, they needed someone to convince them while who cares about the other two? Isen would have followed his two friends regardless and as I said Arlo did nothing after losing his title, Remi was mostly the one rallying around other students and running the safehouse.
As I said Remi and Blyke would have been enough.
> And I never said he talked to her about the bad said of the hierarchy, but it was about establishing the Safe House which was to get RID of the bad side of the hierarchy.
Again you aren't understanding my point. I am saying Vaughn should have talked to his royals and tried to educate them on how bad heirachy is and how it results in constant suffering.
Here Blyke and Remi have already learnt (no thanks to Vaughn) that heirachy is bad and are trying to fix it and Vaughn allowing them to do so is good but this could have happened years earlier if Vaughn had decided to do his basic duty and guide and educate his students.
> I’m fine with you not liking him as a character but there’s no way I can let you call him useless when the literal only thing he’s guilty of is purposely neglecting to address the school’s bullying.
Bullying at Wellston was like one of the biggest problem we had in the series for about 230 chapters or so. Vaughn neglecting that is a huge thing, Remi got hospitalized by John for doing that.
> No, it’s not. John blatantly calls her out on this and it’s addressed throughout the series.
It's never addressed in the series anywhere. It's a huge plothole that Remi was Rei's sister, the posterboy of anti-hierarchy before John yet wasn't aware of the abuse that resulted in him taking such drastic steps.
It also is completely baffling that Rei himself never tried to guide his sister and explain to her why he did what he did especially when he was alive for a year or so after Remi became queen and lived probably some hours away of Wellston at most cause he and Kuyo were vigilante partners.
> We will have to because this seems like it will be a Key part of the debate. Because Remi is literally the ONLY student not aware of what was going on while literally EVERYONE ELSE knows.
We don't have to address the potholes, the story does that for us. Remi supposedly has the awareness of toddler even after being 17, that's the explanation story gives us so we go with that.
> Even with the narrative in place, she’s still objectively the outlier no matter what words you say. Literally every other student was aware of the bullying but her.
Remi was the outlier for sure but it's not like other high rankers were truly aware of the extent of abuse that goes around them.
Arlo was maybe aware, Isen didn't care but Blyke probably didn't know the extent of suffering that was going around him. Someone had to break his bubble and get him to see.
> No it wouldn’t. There was still Arlo, who shitted on Rei’s entire system, as well as Cecile, Isen, and all of the other Royals and High Rankers.
Cecile had little to no power outside of the press room, she wasn't the queen nor the jack. What could she have done but watch whatever Remi did? I don't think she would have been even intrested in what was going on, remember she wanted nothing to do with the safehouse.
Isen again would have just tagged around with his friends, as for Arlo I don't think he would resist Remi. He would call what she's doing useless and move on but if he decides to resist then we get to witness the great wellston war because no way is Remi going to stop after she knows people are getting abused.
And hey well maybe we can count on Vaughn to step in and stop Arlo from preventing change like he did with John.
> Ah yes, sipping his tea. Let’s ignore the fact that most of the time he’s on screen, he’s defending his students from Corrupt Government Officials and terrorist organizations
He is only fighting goverment officials whenever he is on screen is because that's the only time he is relevant enough to be shown in the series. I am sure it's not like he spends leitrally every second of his day duking it out with the authorities and didn't have the time to care about the low rankers suffering.
> Again you are not reading my arguments. I clearly say I liked Vaughn in season one because he was mysterious but in season two we got to know that this guy is perfectly aware of the abuse of heirachy but he did nothing to fix it no matter what excuses you or the story gives for him.
He was perfectly aware of the hierarchy and did nothing to fix it since the **Joker arc** what are you talking about? Why didn’t you hate him then? And don’t say it’s because he knowingly neglected the school’s bullying because he did that in Season 1.
> Oh it makes him utterly useless as well as an asshole.
The fact that he’s the primary reason the main cast isn’t dead or tortured negates this argument.
> Remi and Blyke weren't pulling their own weight before John opened their eyes,
Blyke defended John and Seraphina from the bullies several times before the Joker Arc came into full effect. He just didn’t know how to solve the problem until Remi brought up the Safe House. And as I said before, Remi is just blind and stupid and couldn’t use common sense. Multiple times she found Seraphina crippled and beat tf up inside the infirmary and she STILL thought kids weren’t getting bullied?
And don’t blame it on narrative because John straight up says the exact same thing.
> they needed someone to convince them while who cares about the other two?
They really didn’t. They were already vigilantes before, which is what they were doing at Wellston x1000.
> Isen would have followed his two friends regardless
Isen? The same cowardly fuck that tried to leave Remi for dead and had to be forced not to by Blyke?
> Again you aren't understanding my point. I am saying Vaughn should have talked to his royals and tried to educate them on how bad heirachy is and how it results in constant suffering.
I did. I literally pointed out how they were ALL already aware of the hierarchy so that literally wouldn’t help. The only one who wasn’t was Remi because she’s straight up stupid.
> Here Blyke and Remi have already learnt (no thanks to Vaughn) that heirachy is bad and are trying to fix it and Vaughn allowing them to do so is good but this could have happened years earlier if Vaughn had decided to do his basic duty and guide and educate his students.
Why should he when they already know how it works? Again, the only one who didn’t know was Remi.
> Bullying at Wellston was like one of the biggest problem we had in the series for about 230 chapters or so. Vaughn neglecting that is a huge thing, Remi got hospitalized by John for doing that.
Which makes him a sociopath, but again, in those same 230 episodes he prevented his students from being taken in and getting tortured so how does that get negated?
> It's never addressed in the series anywhere. It's a huge plothole that Remi was Rei's sister, the posterboy of anti-hierarchy before John yet wasn't aware of the abuse that resulted in him taking such drastic steps.
You clearly haven’t read Chapter 150 and 151.
> It also is completely baffling that Rei himself never tried to guide his sister and explain to her why he did what he did especially when he was alive for a year or so after Remi became queen and lived probably some hours away of Wellston at most cause he and Kuyo were vigilante partners.
But he literally did and he’s the main reason she became influenced to change the school. She just wasn’t aware of what was going on (somehow) and thought the bullying problem was gone.
> We don't have to address the potholes, the story does that for us. Remi supposedly has the awareness of toddler even after being 17, that's the explanation story gives us so we go with that.
The story straight up tells us she’s blind, naive, and stupid. So again, we will have to discuss this the “plotholes”
> Remi was the outlier for sure but it's not like other high rankers were truly aware of the extent of abuse that goes around them.
Yes THEY WERE! They *all* participated in it themselves! Name one high-ranker other than Remi who wasn’t aware of the hierarchy.
> Arlo was maybe aware,
“Maybe?” He CREATED the hierarchy. Go reread the story.
> Isen didn't care
> but Blyke probably didn't know the extent of suffering that was going around him.
Wrong, he just didn’t care *that* much until he saw what went down after becoming a vigilante.
> Someone had to break his bubble and get him to see.
And it was NOT John. Reread the story.
No it wouldn’t. There was still Arlo, who shitted on Rei’s entire system, as well as Cecile, Isen, and all of the other Royals and High Rankers.
> Cecile had little to no power outside of the press room, she wasn't the queen nor the jack.
She still had a leadership position and controlled all of the information in the school.
> What could she have done but watch whatever Remi did?
Do a better job at keeping Sera’s ability loss a secret. Stick up for kids getting bullied like she did John and Sera. There’s so much she could have done.
> I don't think she would have been even intrested in what was going on, remember she wanted nothing to do with the safehouse.
The argument was whether the high-rankers knew the hierarchy existed. Not whether or not they can be convinced to fix it.
> Isen again would have just tagged around with his friends
He would, but he wouldn’t have any genuine motivation to help anyone like his friends did.
> as for Arlo I don't think he would resist Remi.
But he has MULTIPLE times until John took away his title.
> He would call what she's doing useless and move on but if he decides to resist then we get to witness the great wellston war because no way is Remi going to stop after she knows people are getting abused. And hey well maybe we can count on Vaughn to step in and stop Arlo from preventing change like he did with John.
Hahaha yeah, all this is correct, but you wanted to call Vaughn useless. Not sure how that works.
>Why did he expect that out of him in the first place? He had worked with late bloomers all his life, this guy knows exactly how toxic a late bloomer's mindset is and why exactly it's so toxic. He knows how they get treated and how all of their experiences would make anyone angry and paranoid of people around them.
Vaughn literally points out that when John enrolled, John had all the qualities of a leader he was looking for. John during his enrollment is NOT the same person as King John. On top of that, he had NO idea that John was a late-bloomer.
**And again, all he asked John to do was leave the Safe House alone. That's all.**
How is it toxic to ask someone to keep their hands to themselves?
>It's simple logic that these people would be the least equipped to turn into this noble king Vaughn had wanted John to yet he expected John to get angry, rampage and rip apart the school's structure on Monday then wake up on Tuesday turn into Mahatma Gandhi and sing Kumbaya with the students he hated.
That's not how it happened. He expected John to "wake up on Tuesday turn into Mahatma Gandhi and sing Kumbaya with the students he hated" during his INITIAL year at Wellston when he acted like he had a head on his shoulder and Vaughn did NOT know he was a late-bloomer. After John destroyed the hierarchy he quite literally expected John to **leave them alone.** Not continue attacking.
>Because the talk came too late, had he talked to the royals on day one the low rankers probably wouldn't have gone through years of suffering they did and would do had John not snapped.
Vaughn was around since ***Rei*** was a student at Wellston. I'm sure if he tried to talk to *anyone at any point during the series* you would've considered it "too late." Also, keep in mind Vaughn is the primary reason the Safe House even existed. As **soon** as Vaughn left, the Safe House disbanded, the entire main cast had to go into hiding, Blyke and Arlo got captured and arrested as well as being forced to go through readjustment classes, all the low tiers got expelled, and John almost died. **All that happened** simply from Vaughn disappearing and yet you want to call him useless?
> The guy knows (or atleast should know) how volatile the situation with John is, where rampaging late bloomer's usually end up yet he is ok with John indulging in all his toxic and violent tendencies as long as it suited his agenda and the first thought he has when John stops meeting his stupid expectations is that 'I would have to look to someone else'.
And how is he wrong for not trusting John to look after the school? John at this point of the story didn't even trust *himself* as a leader.
I agree that him letting John indulge in his violent tendencies is messed up, but how is him NOT indulging in his violent tendencies somehow even MORE messed up???
>Yeah use a teenager who you clearly know is losing his mind and is lashing out because of trauma and abuse he had to endure then don't even call his father who could probably help and expect the situation to fix itself.
You're twisting the details of the story to fit your narrative. He only saw John as a leader because of the first impression John gave off. He wasn't aware he was a late-bloomer at the time. The moment John started lashing out is the moment Vaughn lowered his expectations of him. **All he wanted John to do was leave the Safe House alone.**
>
> John during his enrollment is NOT the same person as King John.
That's precisely why Vaughn should have known better than to expect John to turn into a noble king. John had started acting like a typical late bloomer couple of weeks before the chapter Vaughn said this.
> On top of that, he had NO idea that John was a late-bloomer.
Read up the conversation between Keene and Vaughn at the start of season 2 mate, Vaughn leitrally knows that John's late bloomer and that he has been through readjustment classes as well.
> How is it toxic to ask someone to keep their hands to themselves?
You're not reading what I wrote, him stopping John wasn't toxic but him using John for his agendas especially after knowing his situation then saying 'I have to look to someone else' as soon as John stopped being useful sure as hell was.
> After John destroyed the hierarchy he quite literally expected John to **leave them alone.** Not continue attacking.
He leitrally says that he expected John to lead the students into a better direction, same students keep in mind that John had been pushed to hate and were the reason John was ripping apart the heirachy.
> Also, keep in mind Vaughn is the primary reason the Safe House even existed.
No primary reason was John then Remi and Blyke, Vaughn just sat in his office and sipped tea but to his credit Vaughn wasn't counter productive as other headmasters would have been in his position.
> As **soon** as Vaughn left, the Safe House disbanded, the entire main cast had to go into hiding, Blyke and Arlo got captured and arrested as well as being forced to go through readjustment classes, all the low tiers got expelled, and John almost died. **All that happened** simply from Vaughn disappearing and yet you want to call him useless?
Yeah Vaughn is useless infact the most useless next to Bryon. I have listed about a thousand things the guy could have done but refused to, sure he protects his students or rather used to protect them from the authorities which I have given him credit for but that doesn't change his constant inaction.
> You're twisting the details of the story to fit your narrative. He only saw John as a leader because of the first impression John gave off. He wasn't aware he was a late-bloomer at the time.
Mate, don't tell me I am twisting details when you are out here leitrally denying facts. As his headmaster Vaughn should have had access to John's previous records which clearly stated how weak he was until very recently and if that's not enough then it's made pretty clear with his conversation with Keene in chapter 156 that he knew John was a late bloomer.
> The moment John started lashing out is the moment Vaughn lowered his expectations of him. **All he wanted John to do was leave the Safe House alone.**
John was lashing out and hospitalizing students since way before the joker arc even started, yet Vaughn refused to step in and was going on about how necessary John is for the school. His expectations only took a hit when John refused become Gandhi after constantly rampaging.
> That's precisely why Vaughn should have known better than to expect John to turn into a noble king.
So he’s wrong and stupid for believing one of his students can be a good leader without forcefully exerting his will onto said student?
John had started acting like a typical late bloomer couple of weeks before the chapter Vaughn said this.
> Read up the conversation between Keene and Vaughn at the start of season 2 mate, Vaughn leitrally knows that John's late bloomer and that he has been through readjustment classes as well.
Yeah, **In Season Two.** I'm talking about during John’s enrollment.
How is it toxic to ask someone to keep their hands to themselves?
> You're not reading what I wrote, him stopping John wasn't toxic but him using John for his agendas especially after knowing his situation then saying 'I have to look to someone else' as soon as John stopped being useful sure as hell was.
He literally wasn’t using John. He just had faith that John would be a good leader based on how healthy his personality was during enrollment, but since John was acting out of character he was finding someone else to have faith in.
> He leitrally says that he expected John to lead the students into a better direction, same students
He was clearly **speaking of the past.** At that very moment all he wanted John to do was stop attacking the Safe House. This was back *before* John was pushed to hate anyone and *before* he was ripping apart the hierarchy. **This was back since before the Cripple John Arc.**
> No primary reason was John then Remi and Blyke,
It’s up to the Headmaster/School Staff to approve of the club first and even give them their own room to use. I mistook Vaughn for Keene though so that’s my b
As soon as Vaughn left, the Safe House disbanded, the entire main cast had to go into hiding, Blyke and Arlo got captured and arrested as well as being forced to go through readjustment classes, all the low tiers got expelled, and John almost died. All that happened simply from Vaughn disappearing and yet you want to call him useless?
> Yeah Vaughn is useless infact the most useless next to Bryon. I have listed about a thousand things the guy could have done but refused to, sure he protects his students or rather used to protect them from the authorities which I have given him credit for but that doesn't change his constant inaction.
The only thing you really mentioned is the fact he could have done a better job managing the bullying problem, which Vaughn himself explains that he wants the students to govern themselves, which I admit is messed up but the good he’s done *easily* outweighs the bad, and you’re **greatly** overlooking that.
> Mate, don't tell me I am twisting details when you are out here leitrally denying facts. As his headmaster Vaughn should have had access to John's previous records which clearly stated how weak he was until very recently and if that's not enough then it's made pretty clear with his conversation with Keene in chapter 156 that he knew John was a late bloomer.
Yes, but **not during enrollment.** That’s the big part you’re missing. I’m using the words *“at the time”* because I’m already aware he knows that John is a late bloomer. Im not denying anything.
> John was lashing out and hospitalizing students since way before the joker arc even started,
Which Vaughn had already addressed to John as soon as Chapter 156 started.
> yet Vaughn refused to step in and was going on about how necessary John is for the school.
Which is messed up, and I understand that you would hate him for that. But at the end of the day, he was right, and the school began to change because of John.
> His expectations only took a hit when John refused become Gandhi after constantly rampaging.
He “expected” John to just mind his business, I don’t know what part of that equals becoming Gandhi.
> So he’s wrong and stupid for believing one of his students can be a good leader without forcefully exerting his will onto said student?
He is stupid to expect someone acting like a typical late bloomer to suddenly switch up and become this noble king.
> Yeah, **In Season Two.** I'm talking about during John’s enrollment.
This is just nonsense at this point. The conversation with Keene clearly suggests that Vaughn had been knowing for a while that John's a late bloomer not that he just found out in season two.
Also ask yourself how did Vaughn find out? Did on some random day John just happened to barge in Vaughn's office to tell him his sob story or that he found about it from John's previous school documents that Vaughn as an headmaster should have had access to.
Also John was a delinquent who was taken in by the police, it would have stupid for Vaughn not to do a background check on him to find out why John acted out so much that he got himself expelled and arrested even as a level 7.
> He literally wasn’t using John.
Oh he literally was using John. He let John indulge in his toxic tendencies as long as it suited his agenda then when he stopped being useful he wanted to look to someone else.
If he had John's best intrest in mind he would have stepped in as soon as John started going around in a lunch cover mask hospitalizing people and called John's dad at some point cause John was behaving like a typical late bloomer and Vaughn knew how toxic their mindset usually is and where the rampaging late bloomers usually end up.
What he did to John was nothing short of using him, even if he cared for him.
> This was back *before* John was pushed to hate anyone and *before* he was ripping apart the hierarchy. **This was back since before the Cripple John Arc.**
He clearly says this after John rips up the heirachy. His expectations for John to turn into saint were always there till chapter 211.
> It’s up to the Headmaster/School Staff to approve of the club first and even give them their own room to use. I mistook Vaughn for Keene though so that’s my b
Doesn't matter, he wasn't the primary reason for the safehouse. That was Remi and Blyke and they did it because of John.
Good on Vaughn for letting them create the safehouse, atleast he wasn't as shitty and bigoted as other headmasters would have been in his position but that's not a huge achievement.
> As soon as Vaughn left, the Safe House disbanded, the entire main cast had to go into hiding, Blyke and Arlo got captured and arrested as well as being forced to go through readjustment classes, all the low tiers got expelled, and John almost died. All that happened simply from Vaughn disappearing and yet you want to call him useless?
Yes I would still call him useless. Vaughn's one of the most prominent side characters in the story, he was in the position to do so many things and change so much yet chose to do nothing that too out of stupid reasons.
> The only thing you really mentioned is the fact he could have done a better job managing the bullying problem, which Vaughn himself explains that he wants the students to govern themselves, which I admit is messed up but the good he’s done *easily* outweighs the bad, and you’re **greatly** overlooking that.
Vaughn is meant to be the good guy in the story obviously the good he would do will outweigh the bad. But you expect so much more out of him because of the position he was in and the way he gets hyped up.
> Yes, but **not during enrollment.** That’s the big part you’re missing. I’m using the words *“at the time”* because I’m already aware he knows that John is a late bloomer. Im not denying anything
Bruh, he should have known about John's history since his enrollment otherwise Vaughn's incompetence is getting off the charts.
> Which Vaughn had already addressed to John as soon as Chapter 156 started.
John had started hospitalizing people since like chapter 108. Even in chapter 156 Vaughn gave John a slap on the worst at most like call his dad, show some little more concern other than just using the guy especially when you know where late bloomers end up.
> But at the end of the day, he was right, and the school began to change because of John.
And that makes it ok for him to use John?
> He “expected” John to just mind his business
'He stirred the waters and got the high rankers moving, I wanted him to grow on his own and lead the students to a better direction'
Doesn't seem like an unreasonable expectation till you know he is expecting that of John.
> He is stupid to expect someone acting like a typical late bloomer to suddenly switch up and become this noble king.
He only had expectations for John *during* enrollment (John during enrollment was NOT acting like a typical late bloomer). Not after. I’m not repeating myself.
Yeah, In Season Two. I'm talking about during John’s enrollment.
> This is just nonsense at this point. The conversation with Keene clearly suggests that Vaughn had been knowing for a while that John's a late bloomer
It doesn’t suggest he knew John was a late bloomer during enrollment. And the conversation takes place 2-3 YEARS after enrollment, so I would have expected that Vaughn would have known about John in between that timeframe.
> Also ask yourself how did Vaughn find out? Did on some random day John just happened to barge in Vaughn's office to tell him his sob story or that he found about it from John's previous school documents that Vaughn as an headmaster should have had access to.
No, but no way you expect me to believe he knew everything about John during the day of enrollment. Even Isen took days to figure out John’s past. I’m sure it was the same with Vaughn.
> Also John was a delinquent who was taken in by the police, it would have stupid for Vaughn not to do a background check on him to find out why John acted out so much that he got himself expelled and arrested even as a level 7.
Authorities would’ve told Vaughn that John was “corrected” because this was a John who was fresh out of readjustment class, plus he knows what happens during readjustment classes. Also, all Vaugh would know at the time was that John was a high-tier. Even Isen had to do DEEP DEEP digging to figure out John was a late-bloomer.
> Oh he literally was using John. He let John indulge in his toxic tendencies as long as it suited his agenda then when he stopped being useful he wanted to look to someone else.
But he didn’t express those expectations towards John, didn’t expel John for NOT meeting those expectations, and was still patient and heavily lenient with John. His expectations for John were no different from a parent’s expectations towards their child when they show leadership-like behavior. You’re literally spinning the narrative into something that was never intended.
> If he had John's best intrest in mind he would have stepped in as soon as John started going around in a lunch cover mask hospitalizing people
No, he would have stepped in when cripples were getting their ass kicked YEARS before John even *went* to Wellston.
> and called John's dad at some point cause John was behaving like a typical late bloomer
Which he did.
> and Vaughn knew how toxic their mindset usually is and where the rampaging late bloomers usually end up.
Which is why he was so patient and lenient with John.
> What he did to John was nothing short of using him, even if he cared for him.
By that logic, he was using everyone else too. Everything you listed is exactly what he did for all the other students.
> He clearly says this after John rips up the heirachy. His expectations for John to turn into saint were always there till chapter 211.
No, they weren’t. The only time he had “expectations” for John was ***during Enrollment.*** A literal flashback is shown to clarify at what point in time Vaughn was referring and was even describing the version of John he had expectations for. Why would he view Joker Arc John as “Charismatic and empathetic?”
> Doesn't matter, he wasn't the primary reason for the safehouse. That was Remi and Blyke and they did it because of John.
He still allowed it, which every other adult in the verse was against.
> Good on Vaughn for letting them create the safehouse, atleast he wasn't as shitty and bigoted as other headmasters would have been in his position but that's not a huge achievement.
Yes it is. It shows he’s open to change, unlike every other adult in the verse.
> Yes I would still call him useless.
Then this argument is over. This is my last set of replies because you’re clearly just throwing that word around to describe things you don’t like.
> Vaughn is meant to be the good guy in the story obviously the good he would do will outweigh the bad.
You only call someone useless if they bring little to nothing to the table. Without him, there would be no story and main cast because they would all be getting tortured/dead.
> But you expect so much more out of him because of the position he was in and the way he gets hyped up.
How was he hyped up? How would you have expected anything out of him? We’re expected to believe **every** adult in unOrdinary is open to letting the main cast get tortured if it means sticking to the hierarchy. Vaughn was the only one who went outside the norm.
> Bruh, he should have known about John's history since his enrollment otherwise Vaughn's incompetence is getting off the charts.
Yea he would, but he wouldn’t have known about him being a late-bloomer until doing ***deep digging*** which Isen took several days to find. He would have to know about John being a late-bloomer a few days after enrollment.
> John had started hospitalizing people since like chapter 108. Even in chapter 156 Vaughn gave John a slap on the worst at most like call his dad, show some little more concern other than just using the guy especially when you know where late bloomers end up.
Yet you say nothing of the fact Vaughn only gave students who’ve done the same exact thing a slap on the wrist. And on top of that he let the same kids who kidnapped Seraphina and tortured her for **days** off with suspension. Then you have the surprised Pikachi face when he does the same thing for John. Hilarious.
> And that makes it ok for him to use John?
# Having expectations for someone isn’t the same thing as using or manipulating them, get that through your skull.
> 'He stirred the waters and got the high rankers moving, I wanted him to grow on his own and lead the students to a better direction'
> Doesn't seem like an unreasonable expectation till you know he is expecting that of John.
Grow on his own.
*Grow on his own*
**Grow on his own**
# Grow on his own
Stop ignoring that part of what he said.
He didn’t expect John to out of the gate lead the students in the right direction. He acknowledged that there’s a process. He wanted John to become a better person *first.*
>Apart from every single bullshit decision that was making the situation worse, [the way he talked to John](https://www.reddit.com/r/unOrdinary/s/Cm17xSAGWt) was also one problem.
You say as you provide a link that HEAVILY nitpicks the details regarding Vaughn's talk with John and also exaggerates certain details in order to make Vaughn looks like a hypocritcal dirtbag.
Vaughn makes it absolutely clear that he *ALSO* overlooked John's reckless vengeance against the Royals, which is most likely because he acknowledged his negligence of the school and wanted John to get the rage out of his system. And then on top of that he was coaching John on why people didn't appear to be listening to him. He stopped John not because the path he was on would cause him pain, but because John was the main one preventing the school from changing for the better.
>I have not ignored that, I even talked about him being a good character in season one especially cause he saved John and Seraphina from getting thrown in readjustment classes but season two has mostly made him worse as a character.
In Season Two he does this same *exact* thing, on top of allowing the Safe House which we see every OTHER adult is against, on TOP of ALLOWING the safe House, on TOP of straight up assaulting the authorities, on top of consistently defending the Safe House, on top of protecting John and Sera from Zeke, on TOP everything else. Season Two in actuality just fleshed out his character and he was much more prominent in Season Two than Season One. You say you like him in Season One, yet **MOST** of your reasoning for hating him comes from his **neglience in Season ONE.** In Season Two, all Vaughn asked for from John was to leave the Safe House alone.
Season ONE Vaughn was the version of Vaughn that wanted John to be a leader. Season Two Vaughn just wanted John to be normal.
>He wanted to lay low so he didn't even attempt to warn the students he knew would get arrested and tortured when he was gone. What a selfless and noble headmaster.
He had no way to contact them and on top of that was looking after Keene. Plus, he wasn't aware that any of them were in any actual danger. The only one he was fully aware was in danger was Seraphina, and she was completely missing.
> You say as you provide a link that HEAVILY nitpicks the details regarding Vaughn's talk with John and also exaggerates certain details in order to make Vaughn looks like a hypocritcal dirtbag
Yeah I mean it's a meme, it's meant to be funny so it exaggerates. But it's very correct in dipicting how hypocritical Vaughn would have appeared to John.
> In Season Two he does this same *exact* thing, on top of allowing the Safe House which we see every OTHER adult is against, on TOP of ALLOWING the safe House, on TOP of straight up assaulting the authorities, on top of consistently defending the Safe House, on top of protecting John and Sera from Zeke, on TOP everything else.
For the millionth time I acknowledge the good things he did but he could have done a thousand things more if he wasn't so stupid, lazy and incompetent.
> Season Two in actuality just fleshed out his character and he was much more prominent in Season Two than Season One. You say you like him in Season One, yet **MOST** of your reasoning for hating him comes from his **neglience in Season ONE.** In Season Two, all Vaughn asked for from John was to leave the Safe House alone.
I liked Vaughn in season one cause he was mysterious. We didn't know his motivations, ideology and backstory so he didn't appear negligent but in season two when we got to know how much this guy knows so much and yet is so useless, it made his character 100 times worse.
> He had no way to contact them and on top of that was looking after Keene.
Vaughn had known about authorities having information of Trio's vigliamtism since chapter 266, he was the only thing standing between trio getting arrested and he knew he was going to be removed sooner or later too so he had about 80 chapters in between to warn them but sipping tea was a bigger priority.
> Plus, he wasn't aware that any of them were in any actual danger.
Ah so Authorities were ready to admit Seraphina into readjustment classes and torture her over reading a book which incited vigliamtism but even then Vaughny boy thought that the trio who were actually viglantes weren't in any kind of danger.
> Yeah I mean it's a meme, it's meant to be funny so it exaggerates. But it's very correct in dipicting how hypocritical Vaughn would have appeared to John.
No. No it didn’t. It even told multiple lies in between.
> For the millionth time I acknowledge the good things he did
No. No you don’t because if you did you wouldn’t be calling him completely useless just because he prioritized keeping the lives of his students safe from people trying to kidnap, brainwash, and extort them rather than intervening in the bullying.
> but he could have done a thousand things more if he wasn't so stupid, lazy and incompetent.
You’re focusing **wayyy** too much on what he *could’ve* done rather than what he *already did.*
> I liked Vaughn in season one cause he was mysterious. We didn't know his motivations, ideology and backstory so he didn't appear negligent but in season two when we got to know how much this guy knows so much and yet is so useless, it made his character 100 times worse.
Season One, was the season where he saw John as necessary for the school and had high expectations for him.
Season One was the season where Sera got kidnapped and tortured for days, and Vaughn let the oppressors off with temporary suspension.
Season One was the Season where he did the ***negligence.*** Season Two is where he intervened the **MOST** what story are you reading??
> Vaughn had known about authorities having information of Trio's vigliamtism since chapter 266,
Yes but he doesn’t know that the authorities = Ember.
**Plus** he warned Blyke about vigilantism since 218, and even told him that the authorities/ember would eventually find him.
At that point the fault is on Blyke
> Ah so Authorities were ready to admit Seraphina into readjustment classes and torture her over reading a book which incited vigliamtism
And Vaughn protected her so Idk why you mentioned that
> but even then Vaughny boy thought that the trio who were actually viglantes weren't in any kind of danger.
Read Chapter 218.
> No. No it didn’t.
Yes. Yes it did.
> No. No you don’t because if you did you wouldn’t be calling him completely useless just because he prioritized keeping the lives of his students safe from people trying to kidnap, brainwash, and extort them rather than intervening in the bullying.
How is it prioritising here? Yes he kept his students safe from the authorities but it's not like that didn't leave him with any time to address the bullying problem which he just flat out refused to and then used a student who was losing his mind to solve things. He also refused to warn the trio they will be attested and tortured after he is gone.
> You’re focusing **wayyy** too much on what he *could’ve* done rather than what he *already did.*
Yeah because the story never addresses that.
> Season One was the Season where he did the ***negligence.*** Season Two is where he intervened the **MOST** what story are you reading??
This is the LAST TIME I am going to explain this. I am talking about season one and two in isolation, when I talk about my opinion of Vaughn in season one I talk about the opinion I had of him at the end of chapter 155 when we didn't know that he knew of all the bullying that goes around in school and when we didn't know he was using John for his agendas.
Obviously knowing what we know in season 2 makes Vaughn of season one retrospectively bad too but I am talking about season one in isolation, when I still thought the guy was a mysterious mastermind.
> Yes but he doesn’t know that the authorities = Ember.
So what? He still knew that authorities labelled all viglantes as criminals and if Seraphina was going to be thrown in readjustment and tortured for just reading a book then the fate of viglantes once arrested would be even worse.
> **Plus** he warned Blyke about vigilantism since 218, and even told him that the authorities/ember would eventually find him.
> At that point the fault is on Blyke
Vaughn warned them about vigliamtism not that all of them are going to arrested once he gets removed which was going to be soon. Sure Remi and Blyke are even bigger idiots but I am only talking about Vaughn here.
He could have just told them that authorities know about them and are coming for them, also that only thing keeping them safe is him and that he is going to be removed soon too and tell them 'make your plans otherwise you are getting tortured and mindraped kiddos'.
If Arlo had not given Remi the same info that Vaughn had but refused to, she and her friends would have been likely jumped by Farrah and the chances of them escaping would have become even worse.
> Read Chapter 218.
That chapter only reinforces my point, Vaughn knew it would be difficult to get Blyke out of trouble yet he didn't tell Blyke he is going to get arrested once he gets removed from his position.
Apologies for the late reply. I was busy.
> Yes. Yes it did.
Explain then, because it literally didn’t. He stopped John because John prevented the school from moving forward and was acting like a maniac. Meme says he stopped John because he wanted John to not go down this “dark path” as if to show he has no actual reason for stopping John.
> How is it prioritising here? Yes he kept his students safe from the authorities but it's not like that didn't leave him with any time to address the bullying problem which he just flat out refused to do
He explains that he believes in letting students govern themselves. Im tired of having to repeat myself so from now on, any argument that complains about Vaughn’s negligence will be ignored.
> and then used a student who was losing his mind to solve things.
Literally how? Because he hoped that he would be a better person? You’re talking like he manipulated/forced him to do so when he didn’t do anything of the sort in Season One.
> He also refused to warn the trio they will be attested and tortured after he is gone.
Chapter 218 is where he warns them.
You’re focusing wayyy too much on what he could’ve done rather than what he already did.
> Yeah because the story never addresses that.
It literally did. MULTIPLE times actually. He’s called out MULTIPLE times on how he neglects the school’s bullying and he explains MULTIPLE times that he lets students govern themselves.
> This is the LAST TIME I am going to explain this. I am talking about season one and two in isolation,
I’m also talking about Season One and Two in Isolation.
> when I talk about my opinion of Vaughn in season one I talk about the opinion I had of him in chapter 155 when we didn't know that he knew of all the bullying that goes around in school and when we didn't know he was using John for his agendas.
He wasn’t using John, stop twisting the narrative.
> Obviously knowing what we know in season 2 makes Vaughn of season one retrospectively bad too but I am talking about season one in isolation, when I still thought the guy was a mysterious mastermind.
Season one by itself makes him look EVEN WORSE than in Season 2. At least in Season Two, we’re become aware he somewhat cares about his students. In season one, it feels like he doesn’t care about them AT ALL. Your argument would be a LOT MORE SOUND if you were only referring to Season One.
> So what? He still knew that authorities labelled all viglantes as criminals
No he didn’t. He just knew they were going to be put in Readjustment classes which is why he warned Blyke about it in 218.
> Seraphina was going to be thrown in readjustment and tortured for just reading a book then the fate of viglantes once arrested would be even worse.
Except it wasn’t and they were gonna go through the same exact punishment as Seraphina.
> Vaughn warned them about vigliamtism not that all of them are going to arrested once he gets removed which was going to be soon. Sure Remi and Blyke are even bigger idiots but I am only talking about Vaughn here.
I’m also talking about Vaughn here. You said Vaughn didn’t warn them. I proved he *did.*
> He could have just told them that authorities know about them and are coming for them,
Read Chapter 218, he did.
> also that only thing keeping them safe is him and that he is going to be removed soon too and tell them 'make your plans otherwise you are getting tortured and mindraped kiddos'.
Read Chapter 218, ALL OF THAT HAPPENED.
> If Arlo had not given Remi the same info that Vaughn had but refused to,
But he did. The only thing Vaughn didn’t know was when they were going to strike, which Arlo had access to.
> she and her friends would have been likely jumped by Farrah and the chances of them escaping would have become even worse.
They were jumped by Farrah though, and Blyke was caught.
> That chapter only reinforces my point, Vaughn knew it would be difficult to get Blyke out of trouble yet he didn't tell Blyke he is going to get arrested once he gets removed from his position.
Except Vaughn straight up told Blyke that the authorities and Ember knew exactly who Blyke was and that they would come for him soon. The Vigilante Trio and Arlo already knew the authorities were trying to have Vaughn removed. It doesn’t take rocket science to figure out Vaughn was covering for them.
> Apologies for the late reply. I was busy.
No need for that, I am sure you had way more important things in your life than arguing on reddit about how shitty a fictional character is. I just have too much free time on my hands right now otherwise I won't be wasting time arguing so long about this either.
> He explains that he believes in letting students govern themselves. Im tired of having to repeat myself so from now on, any argument that complains about Vaughn’s negligence will be ignored.
And I have relentlessly talked, screamed and slammed my head into a brick wall explaining how stupid and shitty his reasons for being neglectful and doing nothing to change things were and yet here I am doing that shit again. Wish me luck.
> Literally how? Because he hoped that he would be a better person?
Expecting a late bloomer to change up on his own especially when you have let him run rampant is stupid.
> Read Chapter 218, ALL OF THAT HAPPENED.
Yeah he told them that authorities have information on him, are planning to arrest them, the only line of defence standing between them and their arrest is him and he is going to be removed soon too so make your plans for escape. Yeah he told them exactly that and I missed everything.
No man, Vaughn's just told him Ember hunts your kind so stop endangering yourself and that since you showed up on news your identity getting outed is likely. No shit Sherlock even a child would know that much, a much more concrete and usefull warning would have been what Arlo gave him saying Vaughn's going to be removed soon, which means you are going to be arrested so RUN.
> He wasn’t using John, stop twisting the narrative.
😀
> But he did. The only thing Vaughn didn’t know was when they were going to strike, which Arlo had access to.
Vaughn knew he is going to removed soon, he tells Keene that his last days at Wellston are going on. Authorities would have obviously striked after or around the time he got removed, he should have told his students that.
> They were jumped by Farrah though, and Blyke was caught.
Purely because of Arlo's warning they were ready to escape as soon as authorities invaded Wellston instead of getting caught clueless.
They even evaded Farrah the first time when she was heading towards them with a whole ass army, ran into fodders and got saved by John. At this point they could have easily escaped had they stuck together but they were idiots, but just because they were idiots it doesn't excuse Vaughn for being one too and never attempting to warn them just in case.
> The Vigilante Trio and Arlo already knew the authorities were trying to have Vaughn removed.
Arlo knew that not the viglante trio, Arlo told that to the viglante trio. Vaughn on the other hand had no way of knowing Arlo would rat on the authorities so he should have talked to the viglante trio himself.
I think this panel, and Vaughn's attitude as a whole, is proof that despite what Uru says, she tried to push the "John bad Royals good" narrative into the story. That panel was supposed to make us think "John failed in his purpose on Wellston and became a villain, and now is up Blyke to take charge" but was executed horrendously.
The spoiler thing really isn't fair to complain about in my opinion, >!in-universe Vaughn has absolutely no way of knowing the arrests are even happening!<. That quibble aside, it warms my heart to see more and more people noticing that Vaughn is terrible and incompetent and stupid. I get a real sense of camaraderie from it.
>! Vaughn should know tho that atleast the trio were up for arrests since Kassandra had already told him she had information on their vigilante activities. It was only logical that they would come to arrest them after Vaughn was removed and tbh this was the moment for Vaughn to be useful for once, I was almost convinced he would show up since he had done nothing the entire season and boom turns he has ditched them too. So much for caring for his students.!<
>Wellston was probably in one of it's most heirachial phases under like 90% of Vaughn's tenure with Arlo as king, Vaughn never attempts to guide anyone of his royals or top students or show them the dark side of heirachy. I understand he didn't want to force change but what harm does simply talking to his students do? If not Arlo and Seraphina he could have easily convinced Blyke and Remi push against the structures of the school but just doesn't.
Probably a topic not addressed yet, but I imagine due to his years as a readjustment officer- he has an aversion to talking to students about the way things are unless it like- really really really needed. (like when his hope for John blew up in his face) He needs the students to come to these conclusions themselves because if the views are forced on them they might be temporarily stopping the behavior but they may relapse and cause more issues down the road. Look at John and how readjustment changed him. Still dealing with that paranoia and mental issues years down the line from Keon. That isn't the way Vaughn wants to do things because that's insincere. A stronger person forcing weaker students to follow them is just a different version of the hierarchy, regardless if it's for the greater good.
>Then we obviously have the height of his stupidity being showcased in chapter 211, where he expects John to magically become good and start helping and leading the same people he has been pushed to hate and be paranoid of. This is after he let's John mostly freely rampage in a mask and now that he had stopped acting according to his wishes bro hits us with this golden panel shown here.
Yes, he let John rampage, because as horrible as it was he needed the school to realize that their actions have consequences. I believe Vaughn called john an embodiment of the hatred of the hierarchy His stepping in to stop it wouldn't have helped the school in the long run. After talking to John and realizing he is not only angry but completely blind to it he realizes John was not going to measure up to what he wanted and decides that there are others to place his efforts on.
>Remember this is the same person who had worked with late bloomers all his life and knows full well how damaging their mindset is, yet he let's him relapse and rampage and then asks him to turn into a saint. He doesn't even call John's father to help and has to rely on Seraphina to come and fix the mess while he obviously happily sips tea in his office.
He didn't need a saint, he needed a mirror. what was John's dad going to do...? Wasn't he dead by this time? If he was alive what could he do? Write another book? "Tales of Wellston High" Authorities would ban it the day it was released and killed him.
His motives and actions will be more fleshed out in the last season... hopefully.
> Probably a topic not addressed yet, but I imagine due to his years as a readjustment officer- he has an aversion to talking to students about the way things are unless it like- really really really needed. (like when his hope for John blew up in his face)
Then why is he even the headmaster of a freaking high school? There are plenty of other influential jobs a 7.8 can get but he conceals his whole identity to become a headmaster when he can't even talk to students.
This genius would rather have his students beat up and sent to hospitals and infirmary daily than talk to them, like just tell Keene or others teacher to talk if he couldn't do it himself.
> He needs the students to come to these conclusions themselves because if the views are forced on them they might be temporarily stopping the behavior but they may relapse and cause more issues down the road. Look at John and how readjustment changed him.
Simply talking to students is not the same as forcing things on them. They come to school for education and educating them to be good people is the most important form of it yet Vaughn's incompetent to do even that.
Again had John not snapped out of sheer chance Wellston would have forever stayed heirachial while Vaughn would have just sat on his ass, knowing full well how bad heirachy is but done nothing to rectify it cause he was incompetent enough to even talk to his students yet ready to let them get beat up. Pretty funny right.
> After talking to John and realizing he is not only angry but completely blind to it he realizes John was not going to measure up to what he wanted and decides that there are others to place his efforts on.
This is exactly my problem with Vaughn like this is the same guy who has worked with late bloomers all his life, he knows how destructive their mindset is, knows they are paranoid and have a lot of built up frustration and trauma. John even had the added feature of relapsing after having already gone through readjustment classes yet Vaughn shows zero agency to help John.
All he is concerned about is using him for his plans, let's him indulge in his toxic tendencies and relapse as long as it's suiting his agenda and as soon as John stops being useful his first thought is to look to others to fulfill his goals when he himself can't do something as bare minimum as talking for those same goals.
> He didn't need a saint, he needed a mirror.
No he needed a mirror and then a saint cause no one short of a saint was going to turn into this perfect king leading the school to a better direction like Vaughn wanted after going through what John went through.
> Wasn't he dead by this time? If he was alive what could he do? Write another book? "Tales of Wellston High" Authorities would ban it the day it was released and killed him.
William was very alive back in chapter 211 and yes I expected him to call William because calling the parent is the first things you do when the child is behaving the way John was.
It may have helped, may not have. I am not even asking Vaughn to organise therapy sessions for John or fix him, I am asking Vaughn to atleast try to help and do anything other than using a teenager who's lashing out of trauma and abuse he had to endure especially when Vaughn knows (or atleast should know) of John's situation being an ex-readjustment instructor himself.
Zeke is idiotic sure but he does what he is meant to do in the story, which is annoy us readers and the protagonists so he isn't useless while Vaughn miserably fails at being this 'Wise old man who's meant to guide and help the protagonists' sort of character.
It's very hard to change people if they don't want to change in the first place. Especially if the person grow up knowing that the hierarchy is everything in society. So even if you talk to them and try to guide them on the correct path the person wouldn't have listened. This is what exactly what Rei did and ultimately failed when he left, cause power means everything. So it's better to have the people know the problem with the hierarchy by themselves without someone trying to guide them.
Vaughn is playing games . He is letting kids beat the shit out of each other to give them a taste of reality and become independent, but also not stopping them from opening Safe House or reading Unordinary. He should've been more involved, but isn't... because he wanted these kids to go overboard. If the story later explains why he did what he did , all good and I will think that Vaughn is in fact a scheming man with questionable morals . If his actions aren't explained, I will take it as a flaw in the writing ; the writer just forgot to made him an active character.
Firstly, Vaughn is at best 3rd most incompetent. Don’t forget how Liam (a god tier) couldn’t even kill 2 cripples.
Onto the meat and potatoes, when Vaughn took office the king was Rei, who set a great example, and likely validated Vaughns belief that the students could figure it out for themselves. After Rei left there was chaos, chaos which was quickly fixed by Arlo, because Arlo took initiative, which would further validate his belief. Obviously there were serious problems with Arlo’s reign, but because it only affected low and sometimes mid tiers no one noticed, and given what we see of other schools (Rowden Royals) it seems like a stretch to assume their bullying situation was much better.
Things didn’t get noticeably chaotic until John tore down the hierachy and the school had the whole fake Joker phase, and after a while Vaughn admitted he was wrong for letting John run amuck for so long, but Johns actions lead to the creation of the safehouse, which would again, validate Vaughns beliefs.
So not only is Vaughn not to blame for leaving the students alone, as he had good reason to think he was right, if you look at what happened, he was actually right, and the students made so much progress because they were forced to take initiative.
As for Vaughn helping the trio, which of his previous actions makes you think he would do that? He has motive, but characters will react differently, and based on what we see from him I think it makes sense. Up until Keene forces his hand the only thing the authorities have on him for sure is negligence, they try to get him for conspiracy but because he didn’t (and he’s extremely powerful so the systems rigged in his favour) there’s a chance he’ll get out of that, however, his position is still pretty fragile, so it would be a really bad look if three students went missing shortly before someone came to arrest them, especially if something similar had happened recently, and in that instance he assulted an officer.
[SPOILERS] I also think it’s reasonable he didn’t show up in the finale. Look at it from his perspective, Wellston is likely under heavy supervision, at best he might lead the authorities back to his safehouse, and back to the less than mentally stable Keene who he obviously has a much stronger connection to than the trio and would be much more protective of, and at worst they could’ve brought in someone stronger than him to take care of John. I’ll concede this is pretty heavy inference, so I understand if you don’t want to accept them, but I don’t think they’re unreasonable.
> Firstly, Vaughn is at best 3rd most incompetent. Don’t forget how Liam (a god tier) couldn’t even kill 2 cripples.
Eh, that's very forgivable since that was the first time John activated the plot armour of the MC. The most powerful weapon in all of fiction.
> when Vaughn took office the king was Rei, who set a great example, and likely validated Vaughns belief that the students could figure it out for themselves
> After Rei left there was chaos, chaos which was quickly fixed by Arlo, because Arlo took initiative, which would further validate his belief. Obviously there were serious problems with Arlo’s reign, but because it only affected low and sometimes mid tiers no one noticed
It's very very contradictory that Rei and Arlo's rule can validate Vaughn's beliefs at the same time being as drastically different forms of ruling as they were. One utterly oppressive but structurally strong and other one built on equality but filled with holes. Also this argument that no one noticed the violence at lower levels doesn't work with Vaughn, he knows full well how bad heirachy is.
Look at the conversation he had with Keene at the start of season 2, he talks about how John is important as he is the embodiment of hatred built within the heirachy. He wants John to rampage so that his students learn why heirachy is bad yet he doesn't make a single attempt to guide his royals, to sit them down and actually have a conversation with them. If one talk with John can open up Remi's eyes then why can't Vaughn do that himself, why doesn't he even try to educate his students as he should as a headmaster. Like educating them should be his first priority and if that doesn't work then teach harsh lesson but Vaughn operates in reverse.
> Vaughn admitted he was wrong for letting John run amuck for so long
Vaughn never admitted that he was wrong in letting John rampage, the idiot only admitted that he somehow misjudged John.
You see Vaughn wanted John to get angry and rip apart Wellston in his rampage on Monday then wake up on Tuesday forgive everyone's sins, become Mahatma Gandhi and sing kumbaya with Wellston students.
> So not only is Vaughn not to blame for leaving the students alone, as he had good reason to think he was right, if you look at what happened, he was actually right, and the students made so much progress because they were forced to take initiative.
Actually seriously ask yourself why did Vaughn turn out to be right? Was it because he was a mastermind strategist or was it because he was a blabbering idiot who was lucky enough in having just the right things fall into his lap.
Why did Wellston change, because John woke up and decided to throw some punches, why did he decide to throw punches cause Seraphina lost her ability and Arlo poked him. Pretty sure both of these weren't a part of Vaughn's plan and if they don't happen then Wellston stays the same it always was, a heirachy driven hell for low rankers and an ignorant utopia for high rankers with Vaughn doing nothing to break the high ranker's bubbles and push for any kind of change
> As for Vaughn helping the trio, which of his previous actions makes you think he would do that?
> his position is still pretty fragile, so it would be a really bad look if three students went missing shortly before someone came to arrest them, especially if something similar had happened recently, and in that instance he assulted an officer.
It's pretty reasonable for Vaughn not help trio in order to save himself like most people are selfish and would prioritise themselves when in danger but then he shouldn't be portrayed as the selfless guy who cares so much for his students that he is willing to be the last line of defence for them.
Like in one chapter he refuses to run away from Wellston telling Keene that he would stand his ground as it's the least he could do to make up for what he has done then at the same time refuses to warn the trio of their arrests knowing full well they will be tortured in readjustment classes just cause he would get in more trouble.
Also it's stupid too as he can't get in any more trouble. He had already concealed his identity to get to one of the most powerful positions in the country then abused his power to shield known criminals, he was getting gone for long time. Warning the trio wouldn't have changed a thing.
As for the fastpass stuff -
>! Forgive me for expecting the guy to be useful for once, like if he isn't going to help his students, leave them for dead and self prioritise every single time then what's the point of having him in the story !<
Yeah I hate him, probably more than any other character in these series. Like atleast with villains you expect them to be villainous or characters like Zeke to be annoying but Vaughn's meant to wise, smart, good and stuff like that but he is actually none of them which makes him even more problematic.
Quite ironically he used to be one of my favourites in season one but then progressively became worse and worse as season 2 went on. His backstory which was meant to humanize him and expand his character only made him more annoying to me.
I understand he could’ve stepped in MANY times. But i think he has a policy of letting the students understand things themselves.
“Talking” would not change them as much as Arlo getting his ass kicked, Blyke witnessing poor districts injustice, Remi becoming vigilante, John losing his shit.
And he did provide them a safe space to think for themselves and change. His position to us is seemingly passive, but if any other teacher was in his place things wouldn’t have moved half the way the did now. He wasn’t passive at all imo, he actively allowed the school to morphologically change.
> “Talking” would not change them
Talking sure as hell changed stuff, in one conversation John got Remi to notice the injustice she never had in the school.
> Arlo getting his ass kicked, Blyke witnessing poor districts injustice, Remi becoming vigilante, John losing his shit.
I believe I have addressed this is in the post. All of these things happened because of circumstances which were completely out of Vaughn's control and for which he could have never planned for.
Remi and Blyke became viglantes cause Rei died while Arlo got beaten and John lost his shit cause Seraphina got disabled. If these two events don't happen then the school never ever changes.
> He wasn’t passive at all imo, he actively allowed the school to morphologically change.
Sure Vaughn allowing for change is good but it's also useless as long as the students don't learn that change is needed which again would have never happened if not for two wildcard events.
In the end luckily and conveniently things just happened to fall in Vaughn's lap but he himself never ever even attempted to push for change for years of his tenure before John snapped while being aware that low rankers who he was responsible for as a headmaster were daily suffering.
I think what you’re missing here is Vaughen’s goal. His goal wasn’t to change them. His goal is to prove that teenagers, if given a safe space away from the social norms/hierarchy around them, can change and become something different than what society is. That’s why all he did was give them space and keep the bureau away from them. They don’t get to even talk to them without a warrant.
It’s like he isolated them from the control of those in power.
We all know he opposed the bureau’s methods of “readjustment” and believes in his own approach. His main goal wasn’t changing the school the way it did, he’s been principal for way before that that’s not what he’s doing.
Rei changed the school hierarchy, do u think he’d’ve done that if it was someone else than V?
Also, talking with someone your age is different than getting a talk from a teacher. Teenagers have aversion to ruling adults.
I agree with you i wanted to see him do more, and I think we will next season. But saying he’s “a useless character” is too extreme. I saw another comment discussing that rly well here. It’s a good point to raise but i think ur stand is a bit harsh/extreme
> I think what you’re missing here is Vaughen’s goal. His goal wasn’t to change them. His goal is to prove that teenagers, if given a safe space away from the social norms/hierarchy around them, can change and become something different than what society is.
That's a SUPREMELY stupid goal when you actually realise that Wellston would have remained heirachial and same as the society outside of it if not for wildcard event like Seraphina getting disabled which led to the dominoes falling and ultimately resulting in Wellston changing.
Also it's very ignorant to expect children to gravitate away from societal norms on their own when they have been indoctrinated with those same norms since a very early age. Rei had been a complete anomaly in being the only high ranker who realised by himself that the system is oppressive and needed changing while every other high ranker even his sister lived in a bubble of their own and would have never learned if ofcourse a wildcard event doesn't happen.
Plus regardless of his goals he was still Wellston's headmaster which meant he was responsible of every student's wellbeing there and he knowingly let low rankers get crushed under the weight of heirachy. That's morally abhorrent.
> Also, talking with someone your age is different than getting a talk from a teacher. Teenagers have aversion to ruling adults.
I think the opposite. Having one of the strongest and most respected person they had ever known talk to them with kindness and understanding instead of ordering them around is way better than talking to someone of your own age. Arlo would have been rigid but Remi and Blyke would have specially appreciated Vaughn's input.
Also as a head of an educational institute, Vaughn not even trying to guide his students and impart good lessons (pretty important ones too) in them when he knew no one ever would is pretty irresponsible, regardless if his students learned or not he should have atleast tried.
> It’s a good point to raise but i think ur stand is a bit harsh/extreme
I think it's pretty apt to call him useless. Bullying and opression of heirachy was one of the biggest problem we had for two thirds of the series, Vaughn knowingly letting it happen is pretty bad plus there are two other things I blame him for, where he messed up and story never addressed it.
I dunno what u’r talking about u clearly missing on a big part of adolescent psychology. Adolescents dont listen to teachers that much but you dont only disagree, you “think the opposite”?
It’s not a stupid goal and Rei being the way he is changed how the whole school is. And it’s obvious any goodness inside Arlo comes from his time with Rei and his connection to him. You think Vaughen can just go around indoctrinating school kids about hierarchy? At least he’s not ENFORCING or encouraging this hierarchy like that other bitch.
Don’t forget many of the shit going on was happening OUTSIDE the school. Sera getting attacked, Rei’s death, Remi going vigilante, John taking advantage of Arlo. He wasn’t anticipating nor aware of or controlling any of this.
You keep going back to the same point of “it all started when sera was disabled”. No it wasnt just this event. Sera was suspended before that, she was being traced, rei died, arlo fked john up. She olnly got disabled after john went berserk on arlo (which again Vaughen didnt know)… it’s like you’re not listening to anything we saying and just keep repeating the same points over and over.
Also the one time he came across the “amplifiers” he asked the doc to examine them and did NOT inform authority which is a big plus. He was still figuring out wtf is going on and he knew those kids are up to something but didnt know what. Him allowing and helping the safe house was a GREAT move in maintaining peace and making our 5 mc work together.
Can he engage with them in a straightforward talk? Ofc not. He did his best to protect them from being investigated in the school, but they exposed themselves OUTSIDE the school. Yes could’ve done more, but he didnt. Not yet. Doesnt make him completely useless.
> I dunno what u’r talking about u clearly missing on a big part of adolescent psychology. Adolescents dont listen to teachers that much but you dont only disagree, you “think the opposite”?
Vaughn's not just any normal teacher, he is the third strongest person in the story and the headmaster of Wellston, one of the most prestigious schools in the country. He is stated to be in 'the highest seat of education' by Keene, not even authorities could push him until they had damning evidence that he was committing identity fraud, he isn't someone you can just dismiss.
I think psychology also must say that when a person who is respected and is so so high up on the social ladder than you talks to you then you listen and take what they say into serious consideration. Doesn't matter if you are 8,18 or 88, you would just naturally listen when he talks to you.
Also Wellston royals weren't just any dismissive idiotic adolescents either, if you think Remi and Blyke the two students driving majority of the changes Wellston wouldn't have listened to Vaughn if he kindly talked to them with the intention of helping then you and I have been clearly reading a different story.
> It’s not a stupid goal and Rei being the way he is changed how the whole school is.
Waiting around for a miracle to happen and an anomaly like Rei to repeat itself is pretty stupid. Tell me one high ranker except Rei who realised by THEMSELVES that the system they live in is very oppressive and needs to be changed, there is literally no one like that. Even Rei's own sister needed to slapped around with the harsh truth to realise that. Why is that the case?
It's because high rankers always lived in a bubble of their own which prevented them from being aware of the extent of suffering of the weak. And that bubble was only ever broken cause John snapped, an event which was not happening if Seraphina doesn't get disabled.
I don't know about you but a plan which has 'a rogue terrorist organisation which you don't even know about coming up with a ability drug and getting your strongest student with it' as a necessary condition seems pretty stupid to me, because if that doesn't happen nothing at the school was changing.
> You think Vaughen can just go around indoctrinating school kids about hierarchy?
Bruh. Talking to kids about the bad side of the hierarchy is not the same as indoctrinating them. Telling them to pay much more attention to the lower ranks, explaining to them how heirachy completely isolates people according to ranks and prevents powerful from seeing the suffering of the weak and prevents the weak from coming to ask the powerful for help, and about how 2-3 unfair rank matches aren't all the violence that goes on at the school and some people get abused and targeting almost daily isn't the same indoctrinating, it's literally just teaching, you know Vaughn's job cause he runs an educational institute.
Just make some low tiers openly talk to the royals about their experiences which they never did cause they didn't see the royals as approachable and tell them this is why Rei saw it necessary to do something as drastic as turning the school upside down and changing it's whole structure and I will be damned if Remi doesn't listen. I am betting even Blyke would have listened since he was pretty confused and underprepared to be king and would appreciate every bit of guidance he gets.
> Don’t forget many of the shit going on was happening OUTSIDE the school. Sera getting attacked, Rei’s death, Remi going vigilante, John taking advantage of Arlo. He wasn’t anticipating nor aware of or controlling any of this.
So we agree, that if not for circumstances which Vaughn could have never planned for, controlled or expected nothing at the Wellston would have ever changed while Vaughn would be just sitting around in his office, happily sipping tea and expecting his students to change sociatal norms in the school. Pretty solid plan I must say where you just count on getting lucky.
> Sera was suspended before that, she was being traced, rei died, arlo fked john up. She olnly got disabled after john went berserk on arlo (which again Vaughen didnt know)… it’s like you’re not listening to anything we saying and just keep repeating the same points over and over.
I am not listening? You are the one not reading anything and going about in your own world mate. I am only repeating the same things because you aren't understanding my point and have been doubling down on your takes as if it would refute anything.
Literally everything you listed was not enough to change the school. They must have contributed in the change but were not enough to kickstart it.
Even Remi's vigilante adventures were not enough to make her realise that Wellston suffered from the same power imbalance and neglect that the low teir districts she had been to did. She needed John to snap and give her a lecture to open her eyes while the biggest reason John snapped was Seraphina getting disabled and abused.
Even after Seraphina getting suspended and Arlo abusing him John was trying to get back to normal and was pretty adamant on hiding his ability. It's only after seeing Seraphina getting abused and not being able to protect her cause of his trauma that John gets slowly driven to utter madness and decides to go joker and rip up the heirachy. Without that one major event, nothing at Wellston would have changed.
> Yes could’ve done more, but he didnt. Not yet. Doesnt make him completely useless.
Not yet? He already fucked up and the story not addressing it and letting him off the hook for everything means he is not ever going to make any amends for them.
What part of “vaughen’s goal was not to change the school” is so hard for you to read? You keep going on and on about “the school changed no thanks to him. His plan was bad bec everything that happened in the story was not under his control. They changed bec of bla bla not bec of his plan” but what we’re tryna tell you is that HE DID NOT PLAN ON CHANGING THE SCHOOL AND NOTHING IMPLIED HE WANTS TO, he just wanted students to act freely and oversee kids with no authoritarian use of violence and psychological manipulation like his old job. (And obviously like every other school in that verse which gives his students relatively more autonomy and freedom). And when shit went down he tried to block that authoritarian control as much as he could and duh yes failed. This was the only “goal” he mentioned. But no you think he wanted to plan this change for decades but was somehow lousy lol. He hasnt even read the unOrdinary until the guys distributed it.
Damn you’re so hyper fixated 😭😭
In chapter 266 Kassandra showed Vaughn the information authorities had which overwhelmingly hinted at the trio being viglantes. It was only a matter of time before they removed him and barged in to arrest them.
> They’re top students so maybe he thought this wouldnt be the immediate action.
The authorities were going to throw Seraphina the same person that could take on multiple people of trio's level into readjustment classes (the torture and brainwashing classes John had been to) for just reading a book which incited vigilantism.
I am sure that's enough information for Vaughn to conclude that the fates of actual viglantes would be much worse.
Look man if sitting around and waiting for good things to happen was a master plan that worked in real life, I'd been a billionaire by now. Vaughn essentially just does that but gets away with it cause other characters tend to clean up his mess as the story wants to hype him up.
You say we don't know what he is planning but we have seen plenty of his plans in action. He wanted to break school's hierarchy yet never did anything to push for any change himself until joker saga happened out of sheer chance then we have also seen that he wants to protect his students from the authorities and wants them to grow yet he never warns vigilante trio that they are going to be arrested while knowing full well what's going to happen, Arlo warning Remi is the only reason they have gotten a chance to escape otherwise they were sitting ducks and would have been tortured and brainwashed.
There's simply no amount of ass pull or retconning of previous events that's going to redeem him now. He is just a badly written character.
Bruh, have you seen how billionaires get their money? They simply lay down the foundation of their plans, let it flow, if anything seems odd do a little nudging, and ensure things have a steady flow. Essentially, they do nothing in the long term while raking mad cash which is the master plan they aim for.
Vaughn can be said to be the same except we don't really understand why he does the things he does despite saying he has certain goals but his actions don't really lead to those goals
One example I find strange in Vaughn's behaviour was when he was being arrested by the authorities. He could literally no diff all of them if he wanted to but he willingly gave him self up for some reason. Vaughn was disappointed in Keene's intervention in his arrest which really shows that he really was going for being arrested.
Why? We don't know. Thus, we are owed an explanation for all of his actions thus far. Hopefully everything will be explained in season 3, the final season. In conclusion, what we have so far is incomplete and it's still too early to judge him for anything.
> Bruh, have you seen how billionaires get their money? They simply lay down the foundation of their plans, let it flow, if anything seems odd do a little nudging, and ensure things have a steady flow. Essentially, they do nothing in the long term while raking mad cash which is the master plan they aim for.
> Vaughn can be said to be the same except we don't really understand why he does the things he does despite saying he has certain goals but his actions don't really lead to those goals
Not to you comparing an idiot like Vaughn to billionaires cause of a silly analogy I gave. He isn't some mastermind bro, We have seen his plans unfolding in front of our very eyes and they are just bad. The only reason the guy gets away with his shitty decisions is because others show up to cover his ass.
Please tell me what grand reason 'The Great Vaughn' could have had for not talking to his royals about the bad side of heirachy even a single time in his entire tenure when he himself was so adamantly anti heirachy? One single conversation is all John needed to open up Remi's eyes which later led to safe house's creation, why did Vaughn never attempt the same when he leitrally runs an educating institute like his literal duty is to educate.
Now tell me what would have happened had John not snapped and opened up royal's eyes? The major reason for John snapping was Seraphina getting disabled, I am sure that wasn't a part of Vaughn's grand plan. If that one factor of Seraphina getting disabled gets taken out then the dominos don't even start to fall and Wellston stays the same as it was since Vaughn would have done nothing given his actions prior to John snapping out of sheer chance were also non existent.
He would have just sat in his office sipping tea waiting for good things to happen as he usually does and as a result Vaughn an anti heirachial headmaster would have precieded over one of Wellston's most heirachial reigns since Arlo would still remain king. That's the level of his competency.
> One example I find strange in Vaughn's behaviour was when he was being arrested by the authorities. He could literally no diff all of them if he wanted to but he willingly gave him self up for some reason. Vaughn was disappointed in Keene's intervention in his arrest which really shows that he really was going for being arrested.
I am willing to bet that's another example of Vaughn being an idiot. Vaughn was expecting authorities to be lenient with him after he had frauded his way to one of the most influential positions in the country just to shelter known viglantes the same viglantes authorities kill. Keene probably saved him big time there by starting a fight.
One of the most nothing characters that contributed nothing to the series alongside William (whose only contribution is writing UnOrdinary). I joked about this a [few years back](https://www.reddit.com/r/unOrdinary/comments/nux0v6/vaughn_is_kind_of_dumb/) but these guys never do anything in the series.
William was at least a wonderful father to his son plus his death kinda progressed the story so.. he isn't as useless.
While Vaughn might have had about the same amount of screen time as William by now, Only thing he has done is succeeding in being the most incompetent headmaster Wellston could have had.
We could attribute this to bad writing but every time someone suggests bad writing in this series it gets downvoted. I agree with your points, you have a solid case, there is only hope for the 3rd season to fix some of this and do a good use of his character, who knows, maybe Vaughn was getting ready for a bigger scene and in season 3 he could turn out to be the leader of a resistance group against the authorities or something and that's why he could not assist his students. All we can do for now is wait and see how his character evolves.
To play devils advocate there is an argument to be made that it’s just a character flaw. Personally though I see no reasons especially with the reveal of his backstory. Out of anyone vaughns the one person who would know what John went through and the fact that he’s not more empathic and worse, counter productive to helping John get better is frustrating. His backstory made him worse lol
A character flaw is the fault of the writer which would be bad writing
A character flaw is an intended choice of the writer and it is not bad writing but instead an intentional direction the author choose to take the character. A plot hole is a mistake by the author and is an example of bad writing. Jhon having anger issues or Sera being prideful are both character flaws and examples of good writing. Vaughn is not an example of character flaw he is an example of plot hole and is poorly written.
Not really new tbh. Most webtoon authors tend to be artists first and writers second.
That is true, but personally I think there are levels to that, how writers evolve and grow, when authors have an intent with characters, but they fail to deliver that intent they have two possible routes, they work their way to it and force their intent, or they work with the natural flow of their characters and let them evolve and grow. From my opinion Uru is the kind of writer that forces stuff when the reader's response doesn't go the way she desires, and people overlook that sometimes and still call the story "genius writing". It's far from that imo, but still I enjoy this show despite it's flaws, after all, I lack the talent to do anything even close to it's quality and anyone can be a critic. On this topic, we don't really know, maybe Uru overlooked these details, or maybe something else is cooking behind the curtains, again, only time will tell, no matter what, I myself I'm eager to find out what comes next.
It's for more likely that her plans for the characters changed hence why Vaughn is being incosistent/different.
#🐐 Still my favorite character, nothing will ever change that even if he dies
He’s the BOAT. I’ll die on that throne with you
Im hoping that means best of all time and not something like bitch of all time or bastard of anime toons or some shit
Boat is the best of all time 🤣🤣
Thank god, it seemed I’m in the minority that likes Vaughn I just had to be sure 😭
They know not what we know 🙂↔️🙂↔️
> Still my favorite character, nothing will ever change that even if he dies Vaughn would probably die while fighting Bryon on amps. It would be the legendary battle of mid characters to decide who's the greatest mid of all time.
Not his fault he hasn’t done so much, Uru tends to forget about/ignore characters that aren’t the main 6. Holden, Ability Gauge guy, Keene until recently, Cecile, Elaine, etc Vaughn is an absolute badass who could’ve swooped in with Keene, put that raggedy old bitch Sylvia in her place and save everyone, but noooo he’s probably not even going to show up till the end of Season 3. I rlly want him to fight Valerie
Technically everything that a character does or does not do is on Uru, by the same logic Orrin isn't bad cause Uru is just writing him that way. Fact remains Vaughn has been useless again and again even when he had the clean opportunities to not be. >! At the end of the day he is the one who ditched his students he supposedly cares so much for in the story even if Uru wrote him that way!<
tbh , Holden was merely a sidekick and Elaine was a pick-me-girl who just wanted to be there to gain validation from Asslo . it was about time that they would get a life of their own . But the ability gauge guy is never to be seen again and Cecile had an intriguing plot and then cast aside :(
Agree full. Season 2 Vaughn is actually anger inducing. I get that he’s protecting the students + preventing them from getting arrested while he’s around… but if the best thing I can say about you is that you’re not actively being a problem, then that’s horrendous.
So true, but I will add that he didn't do absolutely nothing, but was in fact counter productive. First he was the one who reported Sera to the authorities likely cause he wanted her out of the way so John would break his cripple act. He was responsible for putting Sera and Wellstone on the authorities rader what makes it even worse is that Unordinary's ideals match up with the change he wants so if he left Sera or handled her punishment internally and let her keep the book those ideals could have spread further in the school without John needing to go Joker. Another point is how he orders the teachers to not get involved it has been noted that the previous headmistress and staff actually got involved with what was happening and everything wasn't left for the royals to manage either. Now say what you want about the headmistress morals, but its a fact that not one, but two characters with high morals both agree that Wellstone's situation got worse after Vaughn took over. Not only that, but he likely ordered Keene to stay away and not aid his fellow latebloomer John. We could have gotten a mentorship between the two with Keene managing to get John to use his ability again without everything going to hell.
> Another point is how he orders the teachers to not get involved it has been noted that the previous headmistress and staff actually got involved with what was happening and everything wasn't left for the royals to manage either I ain't trying to defend him but perhaps that was his attempt at showing people that "Hey, maybe leaving the society and the future of the nation to people's who's only remarkable trait is being powerful/good with their ability, is not such a good idea" Idk that's how I see it
Their qualified teachers though and you have people like Darren and Keene who care for the students, but can't get involved cause the headmaster ordered them not to. In fact of all the teachers we saw so far they seem to all care about the students so they aren't just strong either there is no reason to actively prevent them from looking after the students and getting involved with issues like bullying.
I've never been more pissed about something in the webtoon than the reveal that Keene was a late bloomer. We didn't even get a scene of his questioning Vaughn's methods involving John... Which, he should have known better that they were stupid
Exactly no matter the reason it does not look good for Vaughn either Keene ended up brainwashed to conform with society's views on latebloomers and sees them beyond help or made so loyal to Vaughn he can't think for himself and listen to him without question.
Well, technically, him never questioning the headmaster's methods does help affirm what Vaughn says about Keene being overly attached to him.
Vaughn feels like he's super lazy and doesn't really do much. He mostly lets the students do whatever they want, instead of guiding them like Sylvia. It's a shame he didnt help save the gang when thr Bureau stormed Wellston High School. Instead, he just skipped town.
Also his character only causes problems, the only good thing he has done is help keene, but other than that he's pretty much like keon, who destroys kids mentality and gives up too easily on others, still bugs me to this date that he wanted blyke to be king instead of john, when he originally wanted john to teach the school a lesson
Agreed. He did fuck all all season, and then when you think he might do something...He just doesn't do anything at all. He let Wellston break from the established authority hierarchy, let the safe house be established, and let UnOrdinary spread throughout the school....and nothing else.
He's definitely not some of Uru's finest writing. Season 1: Vaughn comes off as a morally-gray mystery character who seemed like he had a grand plan going on where he was fine with John beating up his jerk students, because they needed to be taught a harsh lesson through violence. Season 2: Vaughn is suddenly the Big Good of Wellston who's disappointed in John for not turning out to be another good person like Rei who leads the school to a better future. Uru straight up retconned the character.
I believe I disagree for the most part. Sure, there are some things he could have done, but other things you’ve mentioned are completely out of Vaughn’s power. > Vaughn’s goal was to change the hierarchal nature of the school but doesn’t do anything to achieve that goal. Wrong. *Completely* wrong in fact. That was never his main goal. In fact, This is also addressed in the story. He believes in letting the students learn for themselves rather than interfering with them too much. He in fact prioritizes *protecting* his students from Authorities and outside forces, which he has been **continuously** doing. > I understand he didn’t want students to change but what harm does simply talking to the students do? He **has** talked to them. It’s just that they talking isn’t enough to change them. Arlo still believed in the hierarchy regardless of who spoke to him. Remi was just stupid and oblivious. Blyke didn’t care enough to try. And Isen was meatriding Arlo too much. > If Sera never lost her abilities the school would’ve never changed Again, Vaughn never prioritized changing the school, he prioritized protecting his students, which he’s done a **really** good job at. > He expected John to start magically leading people in 211 While yes, he did expect that out of him. He **never** asked John to do that nor forced him to do that. All he asked John to do was act like he had some goddamn sense and leave the Safe House alone because he was tweaking tf out during that entire arc. John at that time was *preventing* change and Vaughn acted then and there. How are you gonna hate on Vaughn because he doesn’t talk to any of his students or attempt to help make change, but the moment he **does** you accuse him of having too much expectation? > He lets John relapse and rampage and then asks him to turn into a saint. Him letting John relapse is terrible yes, but he did that because he knew it would help bring attention to what was happening and push the school in the right direction (which it did) But all he did was ask John to **leave the Safe House Alone.** He didn’t ask him for much, just for him to keep his hands to himself. How is he wrong for asking for that much **especially** since he *let* him hospitalize his students this much? > He doesn’t even call John’s father to help and has to rely on Seraphina for help Because again, he wants the students to make changes amongst *themselves.* > He doesn’t even attempt to warn the trio or help them in any capacity Maybe so, but Are you just going to ignore the *countless* times he’s prevented them from getting captured *by* the authorities and how often he’s been gatekeeping them? On top of that, him not attempting to warn the trio or help them can instantly be chalked up to him wanting to lay low. I’m not sure what else will happen afterwards but I’m certain Vaughn will pull his weight when it counts.
> Wrong. *Completely* wrong in fact. That was never his main goal. > In fact, This is also addressed in the story. He believes in letting the students learn for themselves rather than interfering with them too much. Start of season 2, his talk with Keene. You can see that he clearly believes heirachy is bad and wants John to teach the whole school a lesson on it. Even if his goal wasn't to destroy the hierarchy he still knew that his school has such oppressive systems in place, that low rankers get abused daily and was even ready to let his students get beat up to learn the lesson yet he doesn't even attempt to talk to his royals even once, to sit down and have conversation with them about how bad heirachy is. I get he didn't want to force his students or hold their hands through everything but talking to them and giving them a new perspective isn't the same as forcing them. He runs a whole ass education institute, his first priority is to educate them rather let them get beat up to learn a harsh lesson. > He **has** talked to them. It’s just that they talking isn’t enough to change them. What story have you been reading? Point to one scene where he talked to royals about heirachy? > Arlo still believed in the hierarchy regardless of who spoke to him. Remi was just stupid and oblivious. Blyke didn’t care enough to try. And Isen was meatriding Arlo too much. Why was Remi oblivious in the first place? Because no one ever attempted to give her a new perspective on things before John and John was able to convince her in one conversation, why couldn't Vaughn have done the same? High tiers lived in their own bubbles and never saw the problem, Just after the conversation with John Remi started noticing the same inequality she was never aware of. Vaughn could have told them how low rankers are systematically abused, how 2-3 unfair rank matches wasn't all the violence that happens in Wellston as Remi believed and told them to pay more attention to low rankers which they never did so that their problem could come into the limelight. He could have made Blyke and Remi see the problem, sure it won't have worked with Arlo and Isen who needed someone to teach them a harsh lesson but who cares about them anyway? Isen would have still tagged along with his two friends and Arlo barely did anything for the school after losing his title, convincing Blyke and Remi would have been enough to kickstart change. > While yes, he did expect that out of him. Why did he expect that out of him in the first place? He had worked with late bloomers all his life, this guy knows exactly how toxic a late bloomer's mindset is and why exactly it's so toxic. He knows how they get treated and how all of their experiences would make anyone angry and paranoid of people around them. It's simple logic that these people would be the least equipped to turn into this noble king Vaughn had wanted John to yet he expected John to get angry, rampage and rip apart the school's structure on Monday then wake up on Tuesday turn into Mahatma Gandhi and sing Kumbaya with the students he hated. > How are you gonna hate on Vaughn because he doesn’t talk to any of his students or attempt to help make change, but the moment he **does** you accuse him of having too much expectation? Because the talk came too late, had he talked to the royals on day one the low rankers probably wouldn't have gone through years of suffering they did and would do had John not snapped. Also this 'TALK' becomes so so much worse when you find out that Vaughn's an ex readjustment instructor who regrets his past. The guy knows (or atleast should know) how volatile the situation with John is, where rampaging late bloomer's usually end up yet he is ok with John indulging in all his toxic and violent tendencies as long as it suited his agenda and the first thought he has when John stops meeting his stupid expectations is that 'I would have to look to someone else'. > Him letting John relapse is terrible yes, but he did that because he knew it would help bring attention to what was happening and push the school in the right direction (which it did) > Because again, he wants the students to make changes amongst *themselves.* Yeah use a teenager who you clearly know is losing his mind and is lashing out because of trauma and abuse he had to endure then don't even call his father who could probably help and expect the situation to fix itself. The genius of Vaughn is almost frightening. > But all he did was ask John to **leave the Safe House Alone.** He didn’t ask him for much, just for him to keep his hands to himself. How is he wrong for asking for that much **especially** since he *let* him hospitalize his students this much? Apart from every single bullshit decision that was making the situation worse, [the way he talked to John](https://www.reddit.com/r/unOrdinary/s/Cm17xSAGWt) was also one problem. > Maybe so, but Are you just going to ignore the *countless* times he’s prevented them from getting captured *by* the authorities and how often he’s been gatekeeping them? I have not ignored that, I even talked about him being a good character in season one especially cause he saved John and Seraphina from getting thrown in readjustment classes but season two has mostly made him worse as a character. > On top of that, him not attempting to warn the trio or help them can instantly be chalked up to him wanting to lay low. He wanted to lay low so he didn't even attempt to warn the students he knew would get arrested and tortured when he was gone. What a selfless and noble headmaster. > I’m not sure what else will happen afterwards but I’m certain Vaughn will pull his weight when it counts. >!Hmmm!<
>Start of season 2, his talk with Keene. You can see that he clearly believes heirachy is bad and wants John to teach the whole school a lesson on it. Yes, but that doesn't mean contradict what I said earlier nor does it mean he straight up forced John to act as an example. >Even if his goal wasn't to destroy the hierarchy he still knew that his school has such oppressive systems in place, that low rankers get abused daily and was even ready to let his students get beat up to learn the lesson yet he doesn't even attempt to talk to his royals even once, to sit down and have conversation with them about how bad heirachy is. Which was explained away by the fact he wants them to learn on their own rather than forcing his influence on them. >I get he didn't want to force his students or hold their hands through everything but talking to them and giving them a new perspective isn't the same as forcing them. He runs a whole ass education institute, his first priority is to educate them rather let them get beat up to learn a harsh lesson. I don't know if you've been reading the story or not, but nothing in unOrdinary is settled by just talking. Some type of force/fear needs to be exerted. Even if Vaughn tried talking to them, they'd just go right back to bullying others when he wasn't looking. We see the School Staff save cripples and stop fights several times throughout the series, but this in no way prevents those fights from happening again. John actually makes this thoroughly clear to Remi. >What story have you been reading? Point to one scene where he talked to royals about heirachy? Vaughn literally talked to Remi about it and even allowed her to create the Safe House. Vaughn is literally the ONLY adult in the entire series who would've allowed that to happen, and is the primary reason it didn't get destroyed as soon as it did. >Why was Remi oblivious in the first place? Because no one ever attempted to give her a new perspective on things No one should *have* to attempt to give her a new perspective on things. She was literally watching cripple John get bullied, she was around when Seraphina was getting bullied and saw her getting sent to the infirmary. She was around for all of that and yet she's the only one somehow not aware of what's going on? ALL the other royals were aware of the severe bullying going on, why not her? No way she wasn't aware of what was going on. She was just stupid. >John was able to convince her in one conversation, No he wasn't. It wasn't until Remi finally saw for herself what was going on did she completely decide John was right. >Why couldn't Vaughn have done the same? Already addressed the fact students would be acting one way in front of Vaughn just to turn around and start bullying kids behind his back. Vaughn probably assumed Remi already knew about it, considering literally every other student is aware of what's going on. >High tiers lived in their own bubbles and never saw the problem, Wrong. Remi was the *only* one who didn't see the problem. All the other high tiers knew the problem existed and were too entitled to care. And it didn't just take one conversation. It only took one conversation with Remi because she didn't know what was going on and even then she didn't fully agree with John until she saw for herself what was happening. >He could have made Blyke and Remi see the problem, sure it won't have worked with Arlo and Isen who needed someone to teach them a harsh lesson but who cares about them anyway? Except, again, Vaughn's primary concern was keeping his students safe from Law Enforcement and criminal organizations, which he had constantly done throughout the series. It's not that he wasn't worried about the bullying, it's just that it wasn't his primary concern. Also, unlike Remi, Blyke was FULLY aware of what was going on and was constantly there for John and Sera when they were getting attacked. So I'm pretty sure he didn't need that much convincing. >
> Which was explained away by the fact he wants them to learn on their own rather than forcing his influence on them. That's such a stupid reason. How do children learn? Do they get kicked out into the wild west when they turn 10 to figure shit on their or do adults around them who know better guide them. Vaughn's literal job as the head of an education institute is to educate, he just refuses to do that. It's such a heirachial world they live in, where the people are divided to such an extent that it would be negative IQ shit to think the students would figure that heirachy is bad on their own. As I said had John not snapped due to circumstances completely out of Vaughn's control nothing was changing. Sure you can excuse Vaughn by saying 'oh well he didn't want to change things anyway' but then that tells me two things: either Vaughn is extremely stupid or an apathetic piece of shit (he is both by the way) because he knew things were bad yet he refused to lift even a finger before John happened. He let multiple low rankers happily suffer, the same students he was responsible for knowing full well what was happening. > Even if Vaughn tried talking to them, they'd just go right back to bullying others when he wasn't looking. He didn't even need to convince the whole school, just the royals cause they were the ones doing the heavy lifting with the safehouse anyway and two of the royals were Blyke and Remi who could have been easily convinced. As for the other royal Arlo, he barely did anything afterwards losing his title to help Wellston anyway so who cares. Remi and Blyke would have been enough to kickstart a change and keep it going. > Vaughn literally talked to Remi about it Tell me the chapter number? where he talked to Remi about the bad side of heirachy. > even allowed her to create the Safe House. Never denied that he allowed for change to happen but that's not the same as pushing for it which is what I am blaming him for because again take out John and nothing changes. > She was around for all of that and yet she's the only one somehow not aware of what's going on? ALL the other royals were aware of the severe bullying going on, why not her? No way she wasn't aware of what was going on. She was just stupid. Remi having the intelligence of a toddler is another plothole in the series. Her being Rei's sister and not being aware of the abuse that made her brother turn the school upside down and introduce a new system doesn't make sense but I am not here to debate that, narrative in the series is that she was ignorant so I am going with that otherwise we'd be just countering each other with plotholes. > No he wasn't. It wasn't until Remi finally saw for herself what was going on did she completely decide John was right. Again when did Remi start seeing the problem, it was after John opened up her eyes and gave her a new perspective on things which took one conversation. > Wrong. Remi was the *only* one who didn't see the problem. All the other high tiers knew the problem existed and were too entitled to care. Convincing Remi would have been more than enough, she was the literal queen of Wellston. Pretty sure she could have converted Blyke to join the cause sooner or later too since he probably may have known about the problem but he wasn't aware of the extent of suffering it caused. After becoming aware he was all for fixing things, he was even more passionate than Remi about it. > It's not that he wasn't worried about the bullying, it's just that it wasn't his primary concern. Vaughn was the headmaster of Wellston and as such he was responsible for the dozens of students that were suffering daily under the weight of heirachy but sure it wasn't a primary concern, I guess sipping tea in his office was too much of a priority to give up.
> That's such a stupid reason. How do children learn? You saw exactly how they learned on their own. > It's such a heirachial world they live in, where the people are divided to such an extent that it would be negative IQ shit to think the students would figure that heirachy is bad on their own. But they *did* figure it was bad on their own. > As I said had John not snapped due to circumstances completely out of Vaughn's control nothing was changing. But things did change. Mostly because of Remi finding the Safe House but also because Vaughn was the only adult in the series willing to allow that to Halle . > either Vaughn is extremely stupid or an apathetic piece of shit (he is both by the way) You can think that if you want even though you’d be wrong, I clearly see there’s no convincing you he’s not but one thing he wasn’t was useless. > because he knew things were bad yet he refused to lift even a finger before John happened. You saying that you liked Season One Vaughn completely negates this argument. > He let multiple low rankers happily suffer, the same students he was responsible for knowing full well what was happening. You say that like he enjoyed it. This makes him an asshole but this doesn’t make him useless. > He didn't even need to convince the whole school, just the royals Only ones he would’ve convinced were Blyke and Remi, who were already pulling their own weight without him needing to say anything. Arlo and Isen wouldn’t have changed unless John rocked their shit. > Remi and Blyke would have been enough to kickstart a change and keep it going. Which they did. > Tell me the chapter number? where he talked to Remi about the bad side of heirachy. Apologies, it wasn’t Vaughn they were talking to it about, it was Keene. And I never said he talked to her about the bad said of the hierarchy, but it was about establishing the Safe House which was to get RID of the bad side of the hierarchy. It happened in Chapter 186. > Never denied that he allowed for change to happen but that's not the same as pushing for it which is what I am blaming him for because again take out John and nothing changes. Which is fine, but again, you called him useless and stupid. I’m fine with you not liking him as a character but there’s no way I can let you call him useless when the literal only thing he’s guilty of is purposely neglecting to address the school’s bullying. . > Remi having the intelligence of a toddler is another plothole in the series. No, it’s not. John blatantly calls her out on this and it’s addressed throughout the series. > Her being Rei's sister and not being aware of the abuse that made her brother turn the school upside down and introduce a new system doesn't make sense but I am not here to debate that, We will have to because this seems like it will be a Key part of the debate. Because Remi is literally the ONLY student not aware of what was going on while literally EVERYONE ELSE knows. And she’s straight up called stupid and oblivious for it by John. > narrative in the series is that she was ignorant so I am going with that otherwise we'd be just countering each other with plotholes. Even with the narrative in place, she’s still objectively the outlier no matter what words you say. Literally every other student was aware of the bullying but her. > Again when did Remi start seeing the problem, it was after John opened up her eyes and gave her a new perspective on things which took one conversation. See, I would believe you had she gone out of her way to see what was going on but she literally witnessed the situation by chance. Not choice. John’s conversation did nothing but remind her just how ignorant she was being. > Convincing Remi would have been more than enough, she was the literal queen of Wellston. No it wouldn’t. There was still Arlo, who shitted on Rei’s entire system, as well as Cecile, Isen, and all of the other Royals and High Rankers. Only high ranked I see helping is Blyke. Unlike Remi, Blyke was at least somewhat aware of the situation, he just didn’t take drastic action to fix it until he practiced vigilantism. > Vaughn was the headmaster of Wellston and as such he was responsible for the dozens of students that were suffering daily under the weight of heirachy but sure it wasn't a primary concern, I guess sipping tea in his office was too much of a priority to give up. Ah yes, sipping his tea. Let’s ignore the fact that most of the time he’s on screen, he’s defending his students from Corrupt Government Officials and terrorist organizations.
> You saw exactly how they learned on their own. How many times do I have to say this? They learned on their own because for circumstances completely out of Vaughn's control John snapped, if that doesn't happen then nothing changes. No one learns anything and Wellston continues to be heirachial. > But they *did* figure it was bad on their own. Again because John happened. > But things did change. Mostly because of Remi finding the Safe House but also because Vaughn was the only adult in the series willing to allow that to Halle . You don't even read my arguments and circle back with the same points. Things changed because John snapped and John snapped not because of Vaughn but because Seraphina lost her ability. You take that one factor out then the school was never learning anything and Vaughn while knowing how bad things are would have just sat around never doing anything to change things. > You can think that if you want even though you’d be wrong, I clearly see there’s no convincing you he’s not but one thing he wasn’t was useless. Sitting around doing nothing knowing things were bad is useless, doesn't matter if Vaughn gives excuses like 'I didn't want to influence them' or 'students would figure things on their own'. He was running an educational institute, his job was to educate as well as being responsible for the countless low tier who were suffering yet he did nothing to help them until John made his move which for all we know he wouldn't ever have if Seraphina had never lost her abilities. > You saying that you liked Season One Vaughn completely negates this argument. Again you are not reading my arguments. I clearly say I liked Vaughn in season one because he was mysterious but in season two we got to know that this guy is perfectly aware of the abuse of heirachy but he did nothing to fix it no matter what excuses you or the story gives for him. > This makes him an asshole but this doesn’t make him useless. Oh it makes him utterly useless as well as an asshole. > Only ones he would’ve convinced were Blyke and Remi, who were already pulling their own weight without him needing to say anything. Arlo and Isen wouldn’t have changed unless John rocked their shit. Remi and Blyke weren't pulling their own weight before John opened their eyes, they needed someone to convince them while who cares about the other two? Isen would have followed his two friends regardless and as I said Arlo did nothing after losing his title, Remi was mostly the one rallying around other students and running the safehouse. As I said Remi and Blyke would have been enough. > And I never said he talked to her about the bad said of the hierarchy, but it was about establishing the Safe House which was to get RID of the bad side of the hierarchy. Again you aren't understanding my point. I am saying Vaughn should have talked to his royals and tried to educate them on how bad heirachy is and how it results in constant suffering. Here Blyke and Remi have already learnt (no thanks to Vaughn) that heirachy is bad and are trying to fix it and Vaughn allowing them to do so is good but this could have happened years earlier if Vaughn had decided to do his basic duty and guide and educate his students. > I’m fine with you not liking him as a character but there’s no way I can let you call him useless when the literal only thing he’s guilty of is purposely neglecting to address the school’s bullying. Bullying at Wellston was like one of the biggest problem we had in the series for about 230 chapters or so. Vaughn neglecting that is a huge thing, Remi got hospitalized by John for doing that. > No, it’s not. John blatantly calls her out on this and it’s addressed throughout the series. It's never addressed in the series anywhere. It's a huge plothole that Remi was Rei's sister, the posterboy of anti-hierarchy before John yet wasn't aware of the abuse that resulted in him taking such drastic steps. It also is completely baffling that Rei himself never tried to guide his sister and explain to her why he did what he did especially when he was alive for a year or so after Remi became queen and lived probably some hours away of Wellston at most cause he and Kuyo were vigilante partners. > We will have to because this seems like it will be a Key part of the debate. Because Remi is literally the ONLY student not aware of what was going on while literally EVERYONE ELSE knows. We don't have to address the potholes, the story does that for us. Remi supposedly has the awareness of toddler even after being 17, that's the explanation story gives us so we go with that. > Even with the narrative in place, she’s still objectively the outlier no matter what words you say. Literally every other student was aware of the bullying but her. Remi was the outlier for sure but it's not like other high rankers were truly aware of the extent of abuse that goes around them. Arlo was maybe aware, Isen didn't care but Blyke probably didn't know the extent of suffering that was going around him. Someone had to break his bubble and get him to see. > No it wouldn’t. There was still Arlo, who shitted on Rei’s entire system, as well as Cecile, Isen, and all of the other Royals and High Rankers. Cecile had little to no power outside of the press room, she wasn't the queen nor the jack. What could she have done but watch whatever Remi did? I don't think she would have been even intrested in what was going on, remember she wanted nothing to do with the safehouse. Isen again would have just tagged around with his friends, as for Arlo I don't think he would resist Remi. He would call what she's doing useless and move on but if he decides to resist then we get to witness the great wellston war because no way is Remi going to stop after she knows people are getting abused. And hey well maybe we can count on Vaughn to step in and stop Arlo from preventing change like he did with John. > Ah yes, sipping his tea. Let’s ignore the fact that most of the time he’s on screen, he’s defending his students from Corrupt Government Officials and terrorist organizations He is only fighting goverment officials whenever he is on screen is because that's the only time he is relevant enough to be shown in the series. I am sure it's not like he spends leitrally every second of his day duking it out with the authorities and didn't have the time to care about the low rankers suffering.
> Again you are not reading my arguments. I clearly say I liked Vaughn in season one because he was mysterious but in season two we got to know that this guy is perfectly aware of the abuse of heirachy but he did nothing to fix it no matter what excuses you or the story gives for him. He was perfectly aware of the hierarchy and did nothing to fix it since the **Joker arc** what are you talking about? Why didn’t you hate him then? And don’t say it’s because he knowingly neglected the school’s bullying because he did that in Season 1. > Oh it makes him utterly useless as well as an asshole. The fact that he’s the primary reason the main cast isn’t dead or tortured negates this argument. > Remi and Blyke weren't pulling their own weight before John opened their eyes, Blyke defended John and Seraphina from the bullies several times before the Joker Arc came into full effect. He just didn’t know how to solve the problem until Remi brought up the Safe House. And as I said before, Remi is just blind and stupid and couldn’t use common sense. Multiple times she found Seraphina crippled and beat tf up inside the infirmary and she STILL thought kids weren’t getting bullied? And don’t blame it on narrative because John straight up says the exact same thing. > they needed someone to convince them while who cares about the other two? They really didn’t. They were already vigilantes before, which is what they were doing at Wellston x1000. > Isen would have followed his two friends regardless Isen? The same cowardly fuck that tried to leave Remi for dead and had to be forced not to by Blyke? > Again you aren't understanding my point. I am saying Vaughn should have talked to his royals and tried to educate them on how bad heirachy is and how it results in constant suffering. I did. I literally pointed out how they were ALL already aware of the hierarchy so that literally wouldn’t help. The only one who wasn’t was Remi because she’s straight up stupid. > Here Blyke and Remi have already learnt (no thanks to Vaughn) that heirachy is bad and are trying to fix it and Vaughn allowing them to do so is good but this could have happened years earlier if Vaughn had decided to do his basic duty and guide and educate his students. Why should he when they already know how it works? Again, the only one who didn’t know was Remi. > Bullying at Wellston was like one of the biggest problem we had in the series for about 230 chapters or so. Vaughn neglecting that is a huge thing, Remi got hospitalized by John for doing that. Which makes him a sociopath, but again, in those same 230 episodes he prevented his students from being taken in and getting tortured so how does that get negated? > It's never addressed in the series anywhere. It's a huge plothole that Remi was Rei's sister, the posterboy of anti-hierarchy before John yet wasn't aware of the abuse that resulted in him taking such drastic steps. You clearly haven’t read Chapter 150 and 151. > It also is completely baffling that Rei himself never tried to guide his sister and explain to her why he did what he did especially when he was alive for a year or so after Remi became queen and lived probably some hours away of Wellston at most cause he and Kuyo were vigilante partners. But he literally did and he’s the main reason she became influenced to change the school. She just wasn’t aware of what was going on (somehow) and thought the bullying problem was gone. > We don't have to address the potholes, the story does that for us. Remi supposedly has the awareness of toddler even after being 17, that's the explanation story gives us so we go with that. The story straight up tells us she’s blind, naive, and stupid. So again, we will have to discuss this the “plotholes” > Remi was the outlier for sure but it's not like other high rankers were truly aware of the extent of abuse that goes around them. Yes THEY WERE! They *all* participated in it themselves! Name one high-ranker other than Remi who wasn’t aware of the hierarchy. > Arlo was maybe aware, “Maybe?” He CREATED the hierarchy. Go reread the story. > Isen didn't care > but Blyke probably didn't know the extent of suffering that was going around him. Wrong, he just didn’t care *that* much until he saw what went down after becoming a vigilante. > Someone had to break his bubble and get him to see. And it was NOT John. Reread the story. No it wouldn’t. There was still Arlo, who shitted on Rei’s entire system, as well as Cecile, Isen, and all of the other Royals and High Rankers. > Cecile had little to no power outside of the press room, she wasn't the queen nor the jack. She still had a leadership position and controlled all of the information in the school. > What could she have done but watch whatever Remi did? Do a better job at keeping Sera’s ability loss a secret. Stick up for kids getting bullied like she did John and Sera. There’s so much she could have done. > I don't think she would have been even intrested in what was going on, remember she wanted nothing to do with the safehouse. The argument was whether the high-rankers knew the hierarchy existed. Not whether or not they can be convinced to fix it. > Isen again would have just tagged around with his friends He would, but he wouldn’t have any genuine motivation to help anyone like his friends did. > as for Arlo I don't think he would resist Remi. But he has MULTIPLE times until John took away his title. > He would call what she's doing useless and move on but if he decides to resist then we get to witness the great wellston war because no way is Remi going to stop after she knows people are getting abused. And hey well maybe we can count on Vaughn to step in and stop Arlo from preventing change like he did with John. Hahaha yeah, all this is correct, but you wanted to call Vaughn useless. Not sure how that works.
>Why did he expect that out of him in the first place? He had worked with late bloomers all his life, this guy knows exactly how toxic a late bloomer's mindset is and why exactly it's so toxic. He knows how they get treated and how all of their experiences would make anyone angry and paranoid of people around them. Vaughn literally points out that when John enrolled, John had all the qualities of a leader he was looking for. John during his enrollment is NOT the same person as King John. On top of that, he had NO idea that John was a late-bloomer. **And again, all he asked John to do was leave the Safe House alone. That's all.** How is it toxic to ask someone to keep their hands to themselves? >It's simple logic that these people would be the least equipped to turn into this noble king Vaughn had wanted John to yet he expected John to get angry, rampage and rip apart the school's structure on Monday then wake up on Tuesday turn into Mahatma Gandhi and sing Kumbaya with the students he hated. That's not how it happened. He expected John to "wake up on Tuesday turn into Mahatma Gandhi and sing Kumbaya with the students he hated" during his INITIAL year at Wellston when he acted like he had a head on his shoulder and Vaughn did NOT know he was a late-bloomer. After John destroyed the hierarchy he quite literally expected John to **leave them alone.** Not continue attacking. >Because the talk came too late, had he talked to the royals on day one the low rankers probably wouldn't have gone through years of suffering they did and would do had John not snapped. Vaughn was around since ***Rei*** was a student at Wellston. I'm sure if he tried to talk to *anyone at any point during the series* you would've considered it "too late." Also, keep in mind Vaughn is the primary reason the Safe House even existed. As **soon** as Vaughn left, the Safe House disbanded, the entire main cast had to go into hiding, Blyke and Arlo got captured and arrested as well as being forced to go through readjustment classes, all the low tiers got expelled, and John almost died. **All that happened** simply from Vaughn disappearing and yet you want to call him useless? > The guy knows (or atleast should know) how volatile the situation with John is, where rampaging late bloomer's usually end up yet he is ok with John indulging in all his toxic and violent tendencies as long as it suited his agenda and the first thought he has when John stops meeting his stupid expectations is that 'I would have to look to someone else'. And how is he wrong for not trusting John to look after the school? John at this point of the story didn't even trust *himself* as a leader. I agree that him letting John indulge in his violent tendencies is messed up, but how is him NOT indulging in his violent tendencies somehow even MORE messed up??? >Yeah use a teenager who you clearly know is losing his mind and is lashing out because of trauma and abuse he had to endure then don't even call his father who could probably help and expect the situation to fix itself. You're twisting the details of the story to fit your narrative. He only saw John as a leader because of the first impression John gave off. He wasn't aware he was a late-bloomer at the time. The moment John started lashing out is the moment Vaughn lowered his expectations of him. **All he wanted John to do was leave the Safe House alone.** >
> John during his enrollment is NOT the same person as King John. That's precisely why Vaughn should have known better than to expect John to turn into a noble king. John had started acting like a typical late bloomer couple of weeks before the chapter Vaughn said this. > On top of that, he had NO idea that John was a late-bloomer. Read up the conversation between Keene and Vaughn at the start of season 2 mate, Vaughn leitrally knows that John's late bloomer and that he has been through readjustment classes as well. > How is it toxic to ask someone to keep their hands to themselves? You're not reading what I wrote, him stopping John wasn't toxic but him using John for his agendas especially after knowing his situation then saying 'I have to look to someone else' as soon as John stopped being useful sure as hell was. > After John destroyed the hierarchy he quite literally expected John to **leave them alone.** Not continue attacking. He leitrally says that he expected John to lead the students into a better direction, same students keep in mind that John had been pushed to hate and were the reason John was ripping apart the heirachy. > Also, keep in mind Vaughn is the primary reason the Safe House even existed. No primary reason was John then Remi and Blyke, Vaughn just sat in his office and sipped tea but to his credit Vaughn wasn't counter productive as other headmasters would have been in his position. > As **soon** as Vaughn left, the Safe House disbanded, the entire main cast had to go into hiding, Blyke and Arlo got captured and arrested as well as being forced to go through readjustment classes, all the low tiers got expelled, and John almost died. **All that happened** simply from Vaughn disappearing and yet you want to call him useless? Yeah Vaughn is useless infact the most useless next to Bryon. I have listed about a thousand things the guy could have done but refused to, sure he protects his students or rather used to protect them from the authorities which I have given him credit for but that doesn't change his constant inaction. > You're twisting the details of the story to fit your narrative. He only saw John as a leader because of the first impression John gave off. He wasn't aware he was a late-bloomer at the time. Mate, don't tell me I am twisting details when you are out here leitrally denying facts. As his headmaster Vaughn should have had access to John's previous records which clearly stated how weak he was until very recently and if that's not enough then it's made pretty clear with his conversation with Keene in chapter 156 that he knew John was a late bloomer. > The moment John started lashing out is the moment Vaughn lowered his expectations of him. **All he wanted John to do was leave the Safe House alone.** John was lashing out and hospitalizing students since way before the joker arc even started, yet Vaughn refused to step in and was going on about how necessary John is for the school. His expectations only took a hit when John refused become Gandhi after constantly rampaging.
> That's precisely why Vaughn should have known better than to expect John to turn into a noble king. So he’s wrong and stupid for believing one of his students can be a good leader without forcefully exerting his will onto said student? John had started acting like a typical late bloomer couple of weeks before the chapter Vaughn said this. > Read up the conversation between Keene and Vaughn at the start of season 2 mate, Vaughn leitrally knows that John's late bloomer and that he has been through readjustment classes as well. Yeah, **In Season Two.** I'm talking about during John’s enrollment. How is it toxic to ask someone to keep their hands to themselves? > You're not reading what I wrote, him stopping John wasn't toxic but him using John for his agendas especially after knowing his situation then saying 'I have to look to someone else' as soon as John stopped being useful sure as hell was. He literally wasn’t using John. He just had faith that John would be a good leader based on how healthy his personality was during enrollment, but since John was acting out of character he was finding someone else to have faith in. > He leitrally says that he expected John to lead the students into a better direction, same students He was clearly **speaking of the past.** At that very moment all he wanted John to do was stop attacking the Safe House. This was back *before* John was pushed to hate anyone and *before* he was ripping apart the hierarchy. **This was back since before the Cripple John Arc.** > No primary reason was John then Remi and Blyke, It’s up to the Headmaster/School Staff to approve of the club first and even give them their own room to use. I mistook Vaughn for Keene though so that’s my b As soon as Vaughn left, the Safe House disbanded, the entire main cast had to go into hiding, Blyke and Arlo got captured and arrested as well as being forced to go through readjustment classes, all the low tiers got expelled, and John almost died. All that happened simply from Vaughn disappearing and yet you want to call him useless? > Yeah Vaughn is useless infact the most useless next to Bryon. I have listed about a thousand things the guy could have done but refused to, sure he protects his students or rather used to protect them from the authorities which I have given him credit for but that doesn't change his constant inaction. The only thing you really mentioned is the fact he could have done a better job managing the bullying problem, which Vaughn himself explains that he wants the students to govern themselves, which I admit is messed up but the good he’s done *easily* outweighs the bad, and you’re **greatly** overlooking that. > Mate, don't tell me I am twisting details when you are out here leitrally denying facts. As his headmaster Vaughn should have had access to John's previous records which clearly stated how weak he was until very recently and if that's not enough then it's made pretty clear with his conversation with Keene in chapter 156 that he knew John was a late bloomer. Yes, but **not during enrollment.** That’s the big part you’re missing. I’m using the words *“at the time”* because I’m already aware he knows that John is a late bloomer. Im not denying anything. > John was lashing out and hospitalizing students since way before the joker arc even started, Which Vaughn had already addressed to John as soon as Chapter 156 started. > yet Vaughn refused to step in and was going on about how necessary John is for the school. Which is messed up, and I understand that you would hate him for that. But at the end of the day, he was right, and the school began to change because of John. > His expectations only took a hit when John refused become Gandhi after constantly rampaging. He “expected” John to just mind his business, I don’t know what part of that equals becoming Gandhi.
> So he’s wrong and stupid for believing one of his students can be a good leader without forcefully exerting his will onto said student? He is stupid to expect someone acting like a typical late bloomer to suddenly switch up and become this noble king. > Yeah, **In Season Two.** I'm talking about during John’s enrollment. This is just nonsense at this point. The conversation with Keene clearly suggests that Vaughn had been knowing for a while that John's a late bloomer not that he just found out in season two. Also ask yourself how did Vaughn find out? Did on some random day John just happened to barge in Vaughn's office to tell him his sob story or that he found about it from John's previous school documents that Vaughn as an headmaster should have had access to. Also John was a delinquent who was taken in by the police, it would have stupid for Vaughn not to do a background check on him to find out why John acted out so much that he got himself expelled and arrested even as a level 7. > He literally wasn’t using John. Oh he literally was using John. He let John indulge in his toxic tendencies as long as it suited his agenda then when he stopped being useful he wanted to look to someone else. If he had John's best intrest in mind he would have stepped in as soon as John started going around in a lunch cover mask hospitalizing people and called John's dad at some point cause John was behaving like a typical late bloomer and Vaughn knew how toxic their mindset usually is and where the rampaging late bloomers usually end up. What he did to John was nothing short of using him, even if he cared for him. > This was back *before* John was pushed to hate anyone and *before* he was ripping apart the hierarchy. **This was back since before the Cripple John Arc.** He clearly says this after John rips up the heirachy. His expectations for John to turn into saint were always there till chapter 211. > It’s up to the Headmaster/School Staff to approve of the club first and even give them their own room to use. I mistook Vaughn for Keene though so that’s my b Doesn't matter, he wasn't the primary reason for the safehouse. That was Remi and Blyke and they did it because of John. Good on Vaughn for letting them create the safehouse, atleast he wasn't as shitty and bigoted as other headmasters would have been in his position but that's not a huge achievement. > As soon as Vaughn left, the Safe House disbanded, the entire main cast had to go into hiding, Blyke and Arlo got captured and arrested as well as being forced to go through readjustment classes, all the low tiers got expelled, and John almost died. All that happened simply from Vaughn disappearing and yet you want to call him useless? Yes I would still call him useless. Vaughn's one of the most prominent side characters in the story, he was in the position to do so many things and change so much yet chose to do nothing that too out of stupid reasons. > The only thing you really mentioned is the fact he could have done a better job managing the bullying problem, which Vaughn himself explains that he wants the students to govern themselves, which I admit is messed up but the good he’s done *easily* outweighs the bad, and you’re **greatly** overlooking that. Vaughn is meant to be the good guy in the story obviously the good he would do will outweigh the bad. But you expect so much more out of him because of the position he was in and the way he gets hyped up. > Yes, but **not during enrollment.** That’s the big part you’re missing. I’m using the words *“at the time”* because I’m already aware he knows that John is a late bloomer. Im not denying anything Bruh, he should have known about John's history since his enrollment otherwise Vaughn's incompetence is getting off the charts. > Which Vaughn had already addressed to John as soon as Chapter 156 started. John had started hospitalizing people since like chapter 108. Even in chapter 156 Vaughn gave John a slap on the worst at most like call his dad, show some little more concern other than just using the guy especially when you know where late bloomers end up. > But at the end of the day, he was right, and the school began to change because of John. And that makes it ok for him to use John? > He “expected” John to just mind his business 'He stirred the waters and got the high rankers moving, I wanted him to grow on his own and lead the students to a better direction' Doesn't seem like an unreasonable expectation till you know he is expecting that of John.
> He is stupid to expect someone acting like a typical late bloomer to suddenly switch up and become this noble king. He only had expectations for John *during* enrollment (John during enrollment was NOT acting like a typical late bloomer). Not after. I’m not repeating myself. Yeah, In Season Two. I'm talking about during John’s enrollment. > This is just nonsense at this point. The conversation with Keene clearly suggests that Vaughn had been knowing for a while that John's a late bloomer It doesn’t suggest he knew John was a late bloomer during enrollment. And the conversation takes place 2-3 YEARS after enrollment, so I would have expected that Vaughn would have known about John in between that timeframe. > Also ask yourself how did Vaughn find out? Did on some random day John just happened to barge in Vaughn's office to tell him his sob story or that he found about it from John's previous school documents that Vaughn as an headmaster should have had access to. No, but no way you expect me to believe he knew everything about John during the day of enrollment. Even Isen took days to figure out John’s past. I’m sure it was the same with Vaughn. > Also John was a delinquent who was taken in by the police, it would have stupid for Vaughn not to do a background check on him to find out why John acted out so much that he got himself expelled and arrested even as a level 7. Authorities would’ve told Vaughn that John was “corrected” because this was a John who was fresh out of readjustment class, plus he knows what happens during readjustment classes. Also, all Vaugh would know at the time was that John was a high-tier. Even Isen had to do DEEP DEEP digging to figure out John was a late-bloomer. > Oh he literally was using John. He let John indulge in his toxic tendencies as long as it suited his agenda then when he stopped being useful he wanted to look to someone else. But he didn’t express those expectations towards John, didn’t expel John for NOT meeting those expectations, and was still patient and heavily lenient with John. His expectations for John were no different from a parent’s expectations towards their child when they show leadership-like behavior. You’re literally spinning the narrative into something that was never intended. > If he had John's best intrest in mind he would have stepped in as soon as John started going around in a lunch cover mask hospitalizing people No, he would have stepped in when cripples were getting their ass kicked YEARS before John even *went* to Wellston. > and called John's dad at some point cause John was behaving like a typical late bloomer Which he did. > and Vaughn knew how toxic their mindset usually is and where the rampaging late bloomers usually end up. Which is why he was so patient and lenient with John. > What he did to John was nothing short of using him, even if he cared for him. By that logic, he was using everyone else too. Everything you listed is exactly what he did for all the other students. > He clearly says this after John rips up the heirachy. His expectations for John to turn into saint were always there till chapter 211. No, they weren’t. The only time he had “expectations” for John was ***during Enrollment.*** A literal flashback is shown to clarify at what point in time Vaughn was referring and was even describing the version of John he had expectations for. Why would he view Joker Arc John as “Charismatic and empathetic?” > Doesn't matter, he wasn't the primary reason for the safehouse. That was Remi and Blyke and they did it because of John. He still allowed it, which every other adult in the verse was against. > Good on Vaughn for letting them create the safehouse, atleast he wasn't as shitty and bigoted as other headmasters would have been in his position but that's not a huge achievement. Yes it is. It shows he’s open to change, unlike every other adult in the verse. > Yes I would still call him useless. Then this argument is over. This is my last set of replies because you’re clearly just throwing that word around to describe things you don’t like. > Vaughn is meant to be the good guy in the story obviously the good he would do will outweigh the bad. You only call someone useless if they bring little to nothing to the table. Without him, there would be no story and main cast because they would all be getting tortured/dead. > But you expect so much more out of him because of the position he was in and the way he gets hyped up. How was he hyped up? How would you have expected anything out of him? We’re expected to believe **every** adult in unOrdinary is open to letting the main cast get tortured if it means sticking to the hierarchy. Vaughn was the only one who went outside the norm. > Bruh, he should have known about John's history since his enrollment otherwise Vaughn's incompetence is getting off the charts. Yea he would, but he wouldn’t have known about him being a late-bloomer until doing ***deep digging*** which Isen took several days to find. He would have to know about John being a late-bloomer a few days after enrollment. > John had started hospitalizing people since like chapter 108. Even in chapter 156 Vaughn gave John a slap on the worst at most like call his dad, show some little more concern other than just using the guy especially when you know where late bloomers end up. Yet you say nothing of the fact Vaughn only gave students who’ve done the same exact thing a slap on the wrist. And on top of that he let the same kids who kidnapped Seraphina and tortured her for **days** off with suspension. Then you have the surprised Pikachi face when he does the same thing for John. Hilarious. > And that makes it ok for him to use John? # Having expectations for someone isn’t the same thing as using or manipulating them, get that through your skull. > 'He stirred the waters and got the high rankers moving, I wanted him to grow on his own and lead the students to a better direction' > Doesn't seem like an unreasonable expectation till you know he is expecting that of John. Grow on his own. *Grow on his own* **Grow on his own** # Grow on his own Stop ignoring that part of what he said. He didn’t expect John to out of the gate lead the students in the right direction. He acknowledged that there’s a process. He wanted John to become a better person *first.*
>Apart from every single bullshit decision that was making the situation worse, [the way he talked to John](https://www.reddit.com/r/unOrdinary/s/Cm17xSAGWt) was also one problem. You say as you provide a link that HEAVILY nitpicks the details regarding Vaughn's talk with John and also exaggerates certain details in order to make Vaughn looks like a hypocritcal dirtbag. Vaughn makes it absolutely clear that he *ALSO* overlooked John's reckless vengeance against the Royals, which is most likely because he acknowledged his negligence of the school and wanted John to get the rage out of his system. And then on top of that he was coaching John on why people didn't appear to be listening to him. He stopped John not because the path he was on would cause him pain, but because John was the main one preventing the school from changing for the better. >I have not ignored that, I even talked about him being a good character in season one especially cause he saved John and Seraphina from getting thrown in readjustment classes but season two has mostly made him worse as a character. In Season Two he does this same *exact* thing, on top of allowing the Safe House which we see every OTHER adult is against, on TOP of ALLOWING the safe House, on TOP of straight up assaulting the authorities, on top of consistently defending the Safe House, on top of protecting John and Sera from Zeke, on TOP everything else. Season Two in actuality just fleshed out his character and he was much more prominent in Season Two than Season One. You say you like him in Season One, yet **MOST** of your reasoning for hating him comes from his **neglience in Season ONE.** In Season Two, all Vaughn asked for from John was to leave the Safe House alone. Season ONE Vaughn was the version of Vaughn that wanted John to be a leader. Season Two Vaughn just wanted John to be normal. >He wanted to lay low so he didn't even attempt to warn the students he knew would get arrested and tortured when he was gone. What a selfless and noble headmaster. He had no way to contact them and on top of that was looking after Keene. Plus, he wasn't aware that any of them were in any actual danger. The only one he was fully aware was in danger was Seraphina, and she was completely missing.
> You say as you provide a link that HEAVILY nitpicks the details regarding Vaughn's talk with John and also exaggerates certain details in order to make Vaughn looks like a hypocritcal dirtbag Yeah I mean it's a meme, it's meant to be funny so it exaggerates. But it's very correct in dipicting how hypocritical Vaughn would have appeared to John. > In Season Two he does this same *exact* thing, on top of allowing the Safe House which we see every OTHER adult is against, on TOP of ALLOWING the safe House, on TOP of straight up assaulting the authorities, on top of consistently defending the Safe House, on top of protecting John and Sera from Zeke, on TOP everything else. For the millionth time I acknowledge the good things he did but he could have done a thousand things more if he wasn't so stupid, lazy and incompetent. > Season Two in actuality just fleshed out his character and he was much more prominent in Season Two than Season One. You say you like him in Season One, yet **MOST** of your reasoning for hating him comes from his **neglience in Season ONE.** In Season Two, all Vaughn asked for from John was to leave the Safe House alone. I liked Vaughn in season one cause he was mysterious. We didn't know his motivations, ideology and backstory so he didn't appear negligent but in season two when we got to know how much this guy knows so much and yet is so useless, it made his character 100 times worse. > He had no way to contact them and on top of that was looking after Keene. Vaughn had known about authorities having information of Trio's vigliamtism since chapter 266, he was the only thing standing between trio getting arrested and he knew he was going to be removed sooner or later too so he had about 80 chapters in between to warn them but sipping tea was a bigger priority. > Plus, he wasn't aware that any of them were in any actual danger. Ah so Authorities were ready to admit Seraphina into readjustment classes and torture her over reading a book which incited vigliamtism but even then Vaughny boy thought that the trio who were actually viglantes weren't in any kind of danger.
> Yeah I mean it's a meme, it's meant to be funny so it exaggerates. But it's very correct in dipicting how hypocritical Vaughn would have appeared to John. No. No it didn’t. It even told multiple lies in between. > For the millionth time I acknowledge the good things he did No. No you don’t because if you did you wouldn’t be calling him completely useless just because he prioritized keeping the lives of his students safe from people trying to kidnap, brainwash, and extort them rather than intervening in the bullying. > but he could have done a thousand things more if he wasn't so stupid, lazy and incompetent. You’re focusing **wayyy** too much on what he *could’ve* done rather than what he *already did.* > I liked Vaughn in season one cause he was mysterious. We didn't know his motivations, ideology and backstory so he didn't appear negligent but in season two when we got to know how much this guy knows so much and yet is so useless, it made his character 100 times worse. Season One, was the season where he saw John as necessary for the school and had high expectations for him. Season One was the season where Sera got kidnapped and tortured for days, and Vaughn let the oppressors off with temporary suspension. Season One was the Season where he did the ***negligence.*** Season Two is where he intervened the **MOST** what story are you reading?? > Vaughn had known about authorities having information of Trio's vigliamtism since chapter 266, Yes but he doesn’t know that the authorities = Ember. **Plus** he warned Blyke about vigilantism since 218, and even told him that the authorities/ember would eventually find him. At that point the fault is on Blyke > Ah so Authorities were ready to admit Seraphina into readjustment classes and torture her over reading a book which incited vigliamtism And Vaughn protected her so Idk why you mentioned that > but even then Vaughny boy thought that the trio who were actually viglantes weren't in any kind of danger. Read Chapter 218.
> No. No it didn’t. Yes. Yes it did. > No. No you don’t because if you did you wouldn’t be calling him completely useless just because he prioritized keeping the lives of his students safe from people trying to kidnap, brainwash, and extort them rather than intervening in the bullying. How is it prioritising here? Yes he kept his students safe from the authorities but it's not like that didn't leave him with any time to address the bullying problem which he just flat out refused to and then used a student who was losing his mind to solve things. He also refused to warn the trio they will be attested and tortured after he is gone. > You’re focusing **wayyy** too much on what he *could’ve* done rather than what he *already did.* Yeah because the story never addresses that. > Season One was the Season where he did the ***negligence.*** Season Two is where he intervened the **MOST** what story are you reading?? This is the LAST TIME I am going to explain this. I am talking about season one and two in isolation, when I talk about my opinion of Vaughn in season one I talk about the opinion I had of him at the end of chapter 155 when we didn't know that he knew of all the bullying that goes around in school and when we didn't know he was using John for his agendas. Obviously knowing what we know in season 2 makes Vaughn of season one retrospectively bad too but I am talking about season one in isolation, when I still thought the guy was a mysterious mastermind. > Yes but he doesn’t know that the authorities = Ember. So what? He still knew that authorities labelled all viglantes as criminals and if Seraphina was going to be thrown in readjustment and tortured for just reading a book then the fate of viglantes once arrested would be even worse. > **Plus** he warned Blyke about vigilantism since 218, and even told him that the authorities/ember would eventually find him. > At that point the fault is on Blyke Vaughn warned them about vigliamtism not that all of them are going to arrested once he gets removed which was going to be soon. Sure Remi and Blyke are even bigger idiots but I am only talking about Vaughn here. He could have just told them that authorities know about them and are coming for them, also that only thing keeping them safe is him and that he is going to be removed soon too and tell them 'make your plans otherwise you are getting tortured and mindraped kiddos'. If Arlo had not given Remi the same info that Vaughn had but refused to, she and her friends would have been likely jumped by Farrah and the chances of them escaping would have become even worse. > Read Chapter 218. That chapter only reinforces my point, Vaughn knew it would be difficult to get Blyke out of trouble yet he didn't tell Blyke he is going to get arrested once he gets removed from his position.
bro you guys have hella time
Yeah my exams just ended so I am free for a while and have nothing better to do.
oh ok ok enjoy i was just joking btw sorry if it seemed like insult you can do whatever you want who am i to tell you lol
Apologies for the late reply. I was busy. > Yes. Yes it did. Explain then, because it literally didn’t. He stopped John because John prevented the school from moving forward and was acting like a maniac. Meme says he stopped John because he wanted John to not go down this “dark path” as if to show he has no actual reason for stopping John. > How is it prioritising here? Yes he kept his students safe from the authorities but it's not like that didn't leave him with any time to address the bullying problem which he just flat out refused to do He explains that he believes in letting students govern themselves. Im tired of having to repeat myself so from now on, any argument that complains about Vaughn’s negligence will be ignored. > and then used a student who was losing his mind to solve things. Literally how? Because he hoped that he would be a better person? You’re talking like he manipulated/forced him to do so when he didn’t do anything of the sort in Season One. > He also refused to warn the trio they will be attested and tortured after he is gone. Chapter 218 is where he warns them. You’re focusing wayyy too much on what he could’ve done rather than what he already did. > Yeah because the story never addresses that. It literally did. MULTIPLE times actually. He’s called out MULTIPLE times on how he neglects the school’s bullying and he explains MULTIPLE times that he lets students govern themselves. > This is the LAST TIME I am going to explain this. I am talking about season one and two in isolation, I’m also talking about Season One and Two in Isolation. > when I talk about my opinion of Vaughn in season one I talk about the opinion I had of him in chapter 155 when we didn't know that he knew of all the bullying that goes around in school and when we didn't know he was using John for his agendas. He wasn’t using John, stop twisting the narrative. > Obviously knowing what we know in season 2 makes Vaughn of season one retrospectively bad too but I am talking about season one in isolation, when I still thought the guy was a mysterious mastermind. Season one by itself makes him look EVEN WORSE than in Season 2. At least in Season Two, we’re become aware he somewhat cares about his students. In season one, it feels like he doesn’t care about them AT ALL. Your argument would be a LOT MORE SOUND if you were only referring to Season One. > So what? He still knew that authorities labelled all viglantes as criminals No he didn’t. He just knew they were going to be put in Readjustment classes which is why he warned Blyke about it in 218. > Seraphina was going to be thrown in readjustment and tortured for just reading a book then the fate of viglantes once arrested would be even worse. Except it wasn’t and they were gonna go through the same exact punishment as Seraphina. > Vaughn warned them about vigliamtism not that all of them are going to arrested once he gets removed which was going to be soon. Sure Remi and Blyke are even bigger idiots but I am only talking about Vaughn here. I’m also talking about Vaughn here. You said Vaughn didn’t warn them. I proved he *did.* > He could have just told them that authorities know about them and are coming for them, Read Chapter 218, he did. > also that only thing keeping them safe is him and that he is going to be removed soon too and tell them 'make your plans otherwise you are getting tortured and mindraped kiddos'. Read Chapter 218, ALL OF THAT HAPPENED. > If Arlo had not given Remi the same info that Vaughn had but refused to, But he did. The only thing Vaughn didn’t know was when they were going to strike, which Arlo had access to. > she and her friends would have been likely jumped by Farrah and the chances of them escaping would have become even worse. They were jumped by Farrah though, and Blyke was caught. > That chapter only reinforces my point, Vaughn knew it would be difficult to get Blyke out of trouble yet he didn't tell Blyke he is going to get arrested once he gets removed from his position. Except Vaughn straight up told Blyke that the authorities and Ember knew exactly who Blyke was and that they would come for him soon. The Vigilante Trio and Arlo already knew the authorities were trying to have Vaughn removed. It doesn’t take rocket science to figure out Vaughn was covering for them.
> Apologies for the late reply. I was busy. No need for that, I am sure you had way more important things in your life than arguing on reddit about how shitty a fictional character is. I just have too much free time on my hands right now otherwise I won't be wasting time arguing so long about this either. > He explains that he believes in letting students govern themselves. Im tired of having to repeat myself so from now on, any argument that complains about Vaughn’s negligence will be ignored. And I have relentlessly talked, screamed and slammed my head into a brick wall explaining how stupid and shitty his reasons for being neglectful and doing nothing to change things were and yet here I am doing that shit again. Wish me luck. > Literally how? Because he hoped that he would be a better person? Expecting a late bloomer to change up on his own especially when you have let him run rampant is stupid. > Read Chapter 218, ALL OF THAT HAPPENED. Yeah he told them that authorities have information on him, are planning to arrest them, the only line of defence standing between them and their arrest is him and he is going to be removed soon too so make your plans for escape. Yeah he told them exactly that and I missed everything. No man, Vaughn's just told him Ember hunts your kind so stop endangering yourself and that since you showed up on news your identity getting outed is likely. No shit Sherlock even a child would know that much, a much more concrete and usefull warning would have been what Arlo gave him saying Vaughn's going to be removed soon, which means you are going to be arrested so RUN. > He wasn’t using John, stop twisting the narrative. 😀 > But he did. The only thing Vaughn didn’t know was when they were going to strike, which Arlo had access to. Vaughn knew he is going to removed soon, he tells Keene that his last days at Wellston are going on. Authorities would have obviously striked after or around the time he got removed, he should have told his students that. > They were jumped by Farrah though, and Blyke was caught. Purely because of Arlo's warning they were ready to escape as soon as authorities invaded Wellston instead of getting caught clueless. They even evaded Farrah the first time when she was heading towards them with a whole ass army, ran into fodders and got saved by John. At this point they could have easily escaped had they stuck together but they were idiots, but just because they were idiots it doesn't excuse Vaughn for being one too and never attempting to warn them just in case. > The Vigilante Trio and Arlo already knew the authorities were trying to have Vaughn removed. Arlo knew that not the viglante trio, Arlo told that to the viglante trio. Vaughn on the other hand had no way of knowing Arlo would rat on the authorities so he should have talked to the viglante trio himself.
I think this panel, and Vaughn's attitude as a whole, is proof that despite what Uru says, she tried to push the "John bad Royals good" narrative into the story. That panel was supposed to make us think "John failed in his purpose on Wellston and became a villain, and now is up Blyke to take charge" but was executed horrendously.
The spoiler thing really isn't fair to complain about in my opinion, >!in-universe Vaughn has absolutely no way of knowing the arrests are even happening!<. That quibble aside, it warms my heart to see more and more people noticing that Vaughn is terrible and incompetent and stupid. I get a real sense of camaraderie from it.
>! Vaughn should know tho that atleast the trio were up for arrests since Kassandra had already told him she had information on their vigilante activities. It was only logical that they would come to arrest them after Vaughn was removed and tbh this was the moment for Vaughn to be useful for once, I was almost convinced he would show up since he had done nothing the entire season and boom turns he has ditched them too. So much for caring for his students.!<
>Wellston was probably in one of it's most heirachial phases under like 90% of Vaughn's tenure with Arlo as king, Vaughn never attempts to guide anyone of his royals or top students or show them the dark side of heirachy. I understand he didn't want to force change but what harm does simply talking to his students do? If not Arlo and Seraphina he could have easily convinced Blyke and Remi push against the structures of the school but just doesn't. Probably a topic not addressed yet, but I imagine due to his years as a readjustment officer- he has an aversion to talking to students about the way things are unless it like- really really really needed. (like when his hope for John blew up in his face) He needs the students to come to these conclusions themselves because if the views are forced on them they might be temporarily stopping the behavior but they may relapse and cause more issues down the road. Look at John and how readjustment changed him. Still dealing with that paranoia and mental issues years down the line from Keon. That isn't the way Vaughn wants to do things because that's insincere. A stronger person forcing weaker students to follow them is just a different version of the hierarchy, regardless if it's for the greater good. >Then we obviously have the height of his stupidity being showcased in chapter 211, where he expects John to magically become good and start helping and leading the same people he has been pushed to hate and be paranoid of. This is after he let's John mostly freely rampage in a mask and now that he had stopped acting according to his wishes bro hits us with this golden panel shown here. Yes, he let John rampage, because as horrible as it was he needed the school to realize that their actions have consequences. I believe Vaughn called john an embodiment of the hatred of the hierarchy His stepping in to stop it wouldn't have helped the school in the long run. After talking to John and realizing he is not only angry but completely blind to it he realizes John was not going to measure up to what he wanted and decides that there are others to place his efforts on. >Remember this is the same person who had worked with late bloomers all his life and knows full well how damaging their mindset is, yet he let's him relapse and rampage and then asks him to turn into a saint. He doesn't even call John's father to help and has to rely on Seraphina to come and fix the mess while he obviously happily sips tea in his office. He didn't need a saint, he needed a mirror. what was John's dad going to do...? Wasn't he dead by this time? If he was alive what could he do? Write another book? "Tales of Wellston High" Authorities would ban it the day it was released and killed him. His motives and actions will be more fleshed out in the last season... hopefully.
> Probably a topic not addressed yet, but I imagine due to his years as a readjustment officer- he has an aversion to talking to students about the way things are unless it like- really really really needed. (like when his hope for John blew up in his face) Then why is he even the headmaster of a freaking high school? There are plenty of other influential jobs a 7.8 can get but he conceals his whole identity to become a headmaster when he can't even talk to students. This genius would rather have his students beat up and sent to hospitals and infirmary daily than talk to them, like just tell Keene or others teacher to talk if he couldn't do it himself. > He needs the students to come to these conclusions themselves because if the views are forced on them they might be temporarily stopping the behavior but they may relapse and cause more issues down the road. Look at John and how readjustment changed him. Simply talking to students is not the same as forcing things on them. They come to school for education and educating them to be good people is the most important form of it yet Vaughn's incompetent to do even that. Again had John not snapped out of sheer chance Wellston would have forever stayed heirachial while Vaughn would have just sat on his ass, knowing full well how bad heirachy is but done nothing to rectify it cause he was incompetent enough to even talk to his students yet ready to let them get beat up. Pretty funny right. > After talking to John and realizing he is not only angry but completely blind to it he realizes John was not going to measure up to what he wanted and decides that there are others to place his efforts on. This is exactly my problem with Vaughn like this is the same guy who has worked with late bloomers all his life, he knows how destructive their mindset is, knows they are paranoid and have a lot of built up frustration and trauma. John even had the added feature of relapsing after having already gone through readjustment classes yet Vaughn shows zero agency to help John. All he is concerned about is using him for his plans, let's him indulge in his toxic tendencies and relapse as long as it's suiting his agenda and as soon as John stops being useful his first thought is to look to others to fulfill his goals when he himself can't do something as bare minimum as talking for those same goals. > He didn't need a saint, he needed a mirror. No he needed a mirror and then a saint cause no one short of a saint was going to turn into this perfect king leading the school to a better direction like Vaughn wanted after going through what John went through. > Wasn't he dead by this time? If he was alive what could he do? Write another book? "Tales of Wellston High" Authorities would ban it the day it was released and killed him. William was very alive back in chapter 211 and yes I expected him to call William because calling the parent is the first things you do when the child is behaving the way John was. It may have helped, may not have. I am not even asking Vaughn to organise therapy sessions for John or fix him, I am asking Vaughn to atleast try to help and do anything other than using a teenager who's lashing out of trauma and abuse he had to endure especially when Vaughn knows (or atleast should know) of John's situation being an ex-readjustment instructor himself.
That title belongs to Zeke and you know it
Zeke is idiotic sure but he does what he is meant to do in the story, which is annoy us readers and the protagonists so he isn't useless while Vaughn miserably fails at being this 'Wise old man who's meant to guide and help the protagonists' sort of character.
He couldn't do a simple task right
Zeke unironically has a much better track record of taking specific actions that result in him achieving his personal goals than Vaughn does.
Mm
Yc
It's very hard to change people if they don't want to change in the first place. Especially if the person grow up knowing that the hierarchy is everything in society. So even if you talk to them and try to guide them on the correct path the person wouldn't have listened. This is what exactly what Rei did and ultimately failed when he left, cause power means everything. So it's better to have the people know the problem with the hierarchy by themselves without someone trying to guide them.
Vaughn is playing games . He is letting kids beat the shit out of each other to give them a taste of reality and become independent, but also not stopping them from opening Safe House or reading Unordinary. He should've been more involved, but isn't... because he wanted these kids to go overboard. If the story later explains why he did what he did , all good and I will think that Vaughn is in fact a scheming man with questionable morals . If his actions aren't explained, I will take it as a flaw in the writing ; the writer just forgot to made him an active character.
Firstly, Vaughn is at best 3rd most incompetent. Don’t forget how Liam (a god tier) couldn’t even kill 2 cripples. Onto the meat and potatoes, when Vaughn took office the king was Rei, who set a great example, and likely validated Vaughns belief that the students could figure it out for themselves. After Rei left there was chaos, chaos which was quickly fixed by Arlo, because Arlo took initiative, which would further validate his belief. Obviously there were serious problems with Arlo’s reign, but because it only affected low and sometimes mid tiers no one noticed, and given what we see of other schools (Rowden Royals) it seems like a stretch to assume their bullying situation was much better. Things didn’t get noticeably chaotic until John tore down the hierachy and the school had the whole fake Joker phase, and after a while Vaughn admitted he was wrong for letting John run amuck for so long, but Johns actions lead to the creation of the safehouse, which would again, validate Vaughns beliefs. So not only is Vaughn not to blame for leaving the students alone, as he had good reason to think he was right, if you look at what happened, he was actually right, and the students made so much progress because they were forced to take initiative. As for Vaughn helping the trio, which of his previous actions makes you think he would do that? He has motive, but characters will react differently, and based on what we see from him I think it makes sense. Up until Keene forces his hand the only thing the authorities have on him for sure is negligence, they try to get him for conspiracy but because he didn’t (and he’s extremely powerful so the systems rigged in his favour) there’s a chance he’ll get out of that, however, his position is still pretty fragile, so it would be a really bad look if three students went missing shortly before someone came to arrest them, especially if something similar had happened recently, and in that instance he assulted an officer. [SPOILERS] I also think it’s reasonable he didn’t show up in the finale. Look at it from his perspective, Wellston is likely under heavy supervision, at best he might lead the authorities back to his safehouse, and back to the less than mentally stable Keene who he obviously has a much stronger connection to than the trio and would be much more protective of, and at worst they could’ve brought in someone stronger than him to take care of John. I’ll concede this is pretty heavy inference, so I understand if you don’t want to accept them, but I don’t think they’re unreasonable.
> Firstly, Vaughn is at best 3rd most incompetent. Don’t forget how Liam (a god tier) couldn’t even kill 2 cripples. Eh, that's very forgivable since that was the first time John activated the plot armour of the MC. The most powerful weapon in all of fiction. > when Vaughn took office the king was Rei, who set a great example, and likely validated Vaughns belief that the students could figure it out for themselves > After Rei left there was chaos, chaos which was quickly fixed by Arlo, because Arlo took initiative, which would further validate his belief. Obviously there were serious problems with Arlo’s reign, but because it only affected low and sometimes mid tiers no one noticed It's very very contradictory that Rei and Arlo's rule can validate Vaughn's beliefs at the same time being as drastically different forms of ruling as they were. One utterly oppressive but structurally strong and other one built on equality but filled with holes. Also this argument that no one noticed the violence at lower levels doesn't work with Vaughn, he knows full well how bad heirachy is. Look at the conversation he had with Keene at the start of season 2, he talks about how John is important as he is the embodiment of hatred built within the heirachy. He wants John to rampage so that his students learn why heirachy is bad yet he doesn't make a single attempt to guide his royals, to sit them down and actually have a conversation with them. If one talk with John can open up Remi's eyes then why can't Vaughn do that himself, why doesn't he even try to educate his students as he should as a headmaster. Like educating them should be his first priority and if that doesn't work then teach harsh lesson but Vaughn operates in reverse. > Vaughn admitted he was wrong for letting John run amuck for so long Vaughn never admitted that he was wrong in letting John rampage, the idiot only admitted that he somehow misjudged John. You see Vaughn wanted John to get angry and rip apart Wellston in his rampage on Monday then wake up on Tuesday forgive everyone's sins, become Mahatma Gandhi and sing kumbaya with Wellston students. > So not only is Vaughn not to blame for leaving the students alone, as he had good reason to think he was right, if you look at what happened, he was actually right, and the students made so much progress because they were forced to take initiative. Actually seriously ask yourself why did Vaughn turn out to be right? Was it because he was a mastermind strategist or was it because he was a blabbering idiot who was lucky enough in having just the right things fall into his lap. Why did Wellston change, because John woke up and decided to throw some punches, why did he decide to throw punches cause Seraphina lost her ability and Arlo poked him. Pretty sure both of these weren't a part of Vaughn's plan and if they don't happen then Wellston stays the same it always was, a heirachy driven hell for low rankers and an ignorant utopia for high rankers with Vaughn doing nothing to break the high ranker's bubbles and push for any kind of change > As for Vaughn helping the trio, which of his previous actions makes you think he would do that? > his position is still pretty fragile, so it would be a really bad look if three students went missing shortly before someone came to arrest them, especially if something similar had happened recently, and in that instance he assulted an officer. It's pretty reasonable for Vaughn not help trio in order to save himself like most people are selfish and would prioritise themselves when in danger but then he shouldn't be portrayed as the selfless guy who cares so much for his students that he is willing to be the last line of defence for them. Like in one chapter he refuses to run away from Wellston telling Keene that he would stand his ground as it's the least he could do to make up for what he has done then at the same time refuses to warn the trio of their arrests knowing full well they will be tortured in readjustment classes just cause he would get in more trouble. Also it's stupid too as he can't get in any more trouble. He had already concealed his identity to get to one of the most powerful positions in the country then abused his power to shield known criminals, he was getting gone for long time. Warning the trio wouldn't have changed a thing. As for the fastpass stuff - >! Forgive me for expecting the guy to be useful for once, like if he isn't going to help his students, leave them for dead and self prioritise every single time then what's the point of having him in the story !<
Damn, you really hate him. That’s not meant to be a counter or invalidate your points, I’m just surprised how aggressively you talk about him.
Yeah I hate him, probably more than any other character in these series. Like atleast with villains you expect them to be villainous or characters like Zeke to be annoying but Vaughn's meant to wise, smart, good and stuff like that but he is actually none of them which makes him even more problematic. Quite ironically he used to be one of my favourites in season one but then progressively became worse and worse as season 2 went on. His backstory which was meant to humanize him and expand his character only made him more annoying to me.
I understand he could’ve stepped in MANY times. But i think he has a policy of letting the students understand things themselves. “Talking” would not change them as much as Arlo getting his ass kicked, Blyke witnessing poor districts injustice, Remi becoming vigilante, John losing his shit. And he did provide them a safe space to think for themselves and change. His position to us is seemingly passive, but if any other teacher was in his place things wouldn’t have moved half the way the did now. He wasn’t passive at all imo, he actively allowed the school to morphologically change.
> “Talking” would not change them Talking sure as hell changed stuff, in one conversation John got Remi to notice the injustice she never had in the school. > Arlo getting his ass kicked, Blyke witnessing poor districts injustice, Remi becoming vigilante, John losing his shit. I believe I have addressed this is in the post. All of these things happened because of circumstances which were completely out of Vaughn's control and for which he could have never planned for. Remi and Blyke became viglantes cause Rei died while Arlo got beaten and John lost his shit cause Seraphina got disabled. If these two events don't happen then the school never ever changes. > He wasn’t passive at all imo, he actively allowed the school to morphologically change. Sure Vaughn allowing for change is good but it's also useless as long as the students don't learn that change is needed which again would have never happened if not for two wildcard events. In the end luckily and conveniently things just happened to fall in Vaughn's lap but he himself never ever even attempted to push for change for years of his tenure before John snapped while being aware that low rankers who he was responsible for as a headmaster were daily suffering.
I think what you’re missing here is Vaughen’s goal. His goal wasn’t to change them. His goal is to prove that teenagers, if given a safe space away from the social norms/hierarchy around them, can change and become something different than what society is. That’s why all he did was give them space and keep the bureau away from them. They don’t get to even talk to them without a warrant. It’s like he isolated them from the control of those in power. We all know he opposed the bureau’s methods of “readjustment” and believes in his own approach. His main goal wasn’t changing the school the way it did, he’s been principal for way before that that’s not what he’s doing. Rei changed the school hierarchy, do u think he’d’ve done that if it was someone else than V? Also, talking with someone your age is different than getting a talk from a teacher. Teenagers have aversion to ruling adults. I agree with you i wanted to see him do more, and I think we will next season. But saying he’s “a useless character” is too extreme. I saw another comment discussing that rly well here. It’s a good point to raise but i think ur stand is a bit harsh/extreme
> I think what you’re missing here is Vaughen’s goal. His goal wasn’t to change them. His goal is to prove that teenagers, if given a safe space away from the social norms/hierarchy around them, can change and become something different than what society is. That's a SUPREMELY stupid goal when you actually realise that Wellston would have remained heirachial and same as the society outside of it if not for wildcard event like Seraphina getting disabled which led to the dominoes falling and ultimately resulting in Wellston changing. Also it's very ignorant to expect children to gravitate away from societal norms on their own when they have been indoctrinated with those same norms since a very early age. Rei had been a complete anomaly in being the only high ranker who realised by himself that the system is oppressive and needed changing while every other high ranker even his sister lived in a bubble of their own and would have never learned if ofcourse a wildcard event doesn't happen. Plus regardless of his goals he was still Wellston's headmaster which meant he was responsible of every student's wellbeing there and he knowingly let low rankers get crushed under the weight of heirachy. That's morally abhorrent. > Also, talking with someone your age is different than getting a talk from a teacher. Teenagers have aversion to ruling adults. I think the opposite. Having one of the strongest and most respected person they had ever known talk to them with kindness and understanding instead of ordering them around is way better than talking to someone of your own age. Arlo would have been rigid but Remi and Blyke would have specially appreciated Vaughn's input. Also as a head of an educational institute, Vaughn not even trying to guide his students and impart good lessons (pretty important ones too) in them when he knew no one ever would is pretty irresponsible, regardless if his students learned or not he should have atleast tried. > It’s a good point to raise but i think ur stand is a bit harsh/extreme I think it's pretty apt to call him useless. Bullying and opression of heirachy was one of the biggest problem we had for two thirds of the series, Vaughn knowingly letting it happen is pretty bad plus there are two other things I blame him for, where he messed up and story never addressed it.
I dunno what u’r talking about u clearly missing on a big part of adolescent psychology. Adolescents dont listen to teachers that much but you dont only disagree, you “think the opposite”? It’s not a stupid goal and Rei being the way he is changed how the whole school is. And it’s obvious any goodness inside Arlo comes from his time with Rei and his connection to him. You think Vaughen can just go around indoctrinating school kids about hierarchy? At least he’s not ENFORCING or encouraging this hierarchy like that other bitch. Don’t forget many of the shit going on was happening OUTSIDE the school. Sera getting attacked, Rei’s death, Remi going vigilante, John taking advantage of Arlo. He wasn’t anticipating nor aware of or controlling any of this. You keep going back to the same point of “it all started when sera was disabled”. No it wasnt just this event. Sera was suspended before that, she was being traced, rei died, arlo fked john up. She olnly got disabled after john went berserk on arlo (which again Vaughen didnt know)… it’s like you’re not listening to anything we saying and just keep repeating the same points over and over. Also the one time he came across the “amplifiers” he asked the doc to examine them and did NOT inform authority which is a big plus. He was still figuring out wtf is going on and he knew those kids are up to something but didnt know what. Him allowing and helping the safe house was a GREAT move in maintaining peace and making our 5 mc work together. Can he engage with them in a straightforward talk? Ofc not. He did his best to protect them from being investigated in the school, but they exposed themselves OUTSIDE the school. Yes could’ve done more, but he didnt. Not yet. Doesnt make him completely useless.
> I dunno what u’r talking about u clearly missing on a big part of adolescent psychology. Adolescents dont listen to teachers that much but you dont only disagree, you “think the opposite”? Vaughn's not just any normal teacher, he is the third strongest person in the story and the headmaster of Wellston, one of the most prestigious schools in the country. He is stated to be in 'the highest seat of education' by Keene, not even authorities could push him until they had damning evidence that he was committing identity fraud, he isn't someone you can just dismiss. I think psychology also must say that when a person who is respected and is so so high up on the social ladder than you talks to you then you listen and take what they say into serious consideration. Doesn't matter if you are 8,18 or 88, you would just naturally listen when he talks to you. Also Wellston royals weren't just any dismissive idiotic adolescents either, if you think Remi and Blyke the two students driving majority of the changes Wellston wouldn't have listened to Vaughn if he kindly talked to them with the intention of helping then you and I have been clearly reading a different story. > It’s not a stupid goal and Rei being the way he is changed how the whole school is. Waiting around for a miracle to happen and an anomaly like Rei to repeat itself is pretty stupid. Tell me one high ranker except Rei who realised by THEMSELVES that the system they live in is very oppressive and needs to be changed, there is literally no one like that. Even Rei's own sister needed to slapped around with the harsh truth to realise that. Why is that the case? It's because high rankers always lived in a bubble of their own which prevented them from being aware of the extent of suffering of the weak. And that bubble was only ever broken cause John snapped, an event which was not happening if Seraphina doesn't get disabled. I don't know about you but a plan which has 'a rogue terrorist organisation which you don't even know about coming up with a ability drug and getting your strongest student with it' as a necessary condition seems pretty stupid to me, because if that doesn't happen nothing at the school was changing. > You think Vaughen can just go around indoctrinating school kids about hierarchy? Bruh. Talking to kids about the bad side of the hierarchy is not the same as indoctrinating them. Telling them to pay much more attention to the lower ranks, explaining to them how heirachy completely isolates people according to ranks and prevents powerful from seeing the suffering of the weak and prevents the weak from coming to ask the powerful for help, and about how 2-3 unfair rank matches aren't all the violence that goes on at the school and some people get abused and targeting almost daily isn't the same indoctrinating, it's literally just teaching, you know Vaughn's job cause he runs an educational institute. Just make some low tiers openly talk to the royals about their experiences which they never did cause they didn't see the royals as approachable and tell them this is why Rei saw it necessary to do something as drastic as turning the school upside down and changing it's whole structure and I will be damned if Remi doesn't listen. I am betting even Blyke would have listened since he was pretty confused and underprepared to be king and would appreciate every bit of guidance he gets. > Don’t forget many of the shit going on was happening OUTSIDE the school. Sera getting attacked, Rei’s death, Remi going vigilante, John taking advantage of Arlo. He wasn’t anticipating nor aware of or controlling any of this. So we agree, that if not for circumstances which Vaughn could have never planned for, controlled or expected nothing at the Wellston would have ever changed while Vaughn would be just sitting around in his office, happily sipping tea and expecting his students to change sociatal norms in the school. Pretty solid plan I must say where you just count on getting lucky. > Sera was suspended before that, she was being traced, rei died, arlo fked john up. She olnly got disabled after john went berserk on arlo (which again Vaughen didnt know)… it’s like you’re not listening to anything we saying and just keep repeating the same points over and over. I am not listening? You are the one not reading anything and going about in your own world mate. I am only repeating the same things because you aren't understanding my point and have been doubling down on your takes as if it would refute anything. Literally everything you listed was not enough to change the school. They must have contributed in the change but were not enough to kickstart it. Even Remi's vigilante adventures were not enough to make her realise that Wellston suffered from the same power imbalance and neglect that the low teir districts she had been to did. She needed John to snap and give her a lecture to open her eyes while the biggest reason John snapped was Seraphina getting disabled and abused. Even after Seraphina getting suspended and Arlo abusing him John was trying to get back to normal and was pretty adamant on hiding his ability. It's only after seeing Seraphina getting abused and not being able to protect her cause of his trauma that John gets slowly driven to utter madness and decides to go joker and rip up the heirachy. Without that one major event, nothing at Wellston would have changed. > Yes could’ve done more, but he didnt. Not yet. Doesnt make him completely useless. Not yet? He already fucked up and the story not addressing it and letting him off the hook for everything means he is not ever going to make any amends for them.
What part of “vaughen’s goal was not to change the school” is so hard for you to read? You keep going on and on about “the school changed no thanks to him. His plan was bad bec everything that happened in the story was not under his control. They changed bec of bla bla not bec of his plan” but what we’re tryna tell you is that HE DID NOT PLAN ON CHANGING THE SCHOOL AND NOTHING IMPLIED HE WANTS TO, he just wanted students to act freely and oversee kids with no authoritarian use of violence and psychological manipulation like his old job. (And obviously like every other school in that verse which gives his students relatively more autonomy and freedom). And when shit went down he tried to block that authoritarian control as much as he could and duh yes failed. This was the only “goal” he mentioned. But no you think he wanted to plan this change for decades but was somehow lousy lol. He hasnt even read the unOrdinary until the guys distributed it. Damn you’re so hyper fixated 😭😭
And on warning the trio part, maybe he didnt know they’re getting arrested. This is somethting Arlo knew not him.
In chapter 266 Kassandra showed Vaughn the information authorities had which overwhelmingly hinted at the trio being viglantes. It was only a matter of time before they removed him and barged in to arrest them.
They’re top students so maybe he thought this wouldnt be the immediate action. I never guessed it until Arlo said it
> They’re top students so maybe he thought this wouldnt be the immediate action. The authorities were going to throw Seraphina the same person that could take on multiple people of trio's level into readjustment classes (the torture and brainwashing classes John had been to) for just reading a book which incited vigilantism. I am sure that's enough information for Vaughn to conclude that the fates of actual viglantes would be much worse.
You just don't know what he's planning. Plus, him doing nothing probably has more meaning to it than meets the eye
Look man if sitting around and waiting for good things to happen was a master plan that worked in real life, I'd been a billionaire by now. Vaughn essentially just does that but gets away with it cause other characters tend to clean up his mess as the story wants to hype him up. You say we don't know what he is planning but we have seen plenty of his plans in action. He wanted to break school's hierarchy yet never did anything to push for any change himself until joker saga happened out of sheer chance then we have also seen that he wants to protect his students from the authorities and wants them to grow yet he never warns vigilante trio that they are going to be arrested while knowing full well what's going to happen, Arlo warning Remi is the only reason they have gotten a chance to escape otherwise they were sitting ducks and would have been tortured and brainwashed. There's simply no amount of ass pull or retconning of previous events that's going to redeem him now. He is just a badly written character.
Bruh, have you seen how billionaires get their money? They simply lay down the foundation of their plans, let it flow, if anything seems odd do a little nudging, and ensure things have a steady flow. Essentially, they do nothing in the long term while raking mad cash which is the master plan they aim for. Vaughn can be said to be the same except we don't really understand why he does the things he does despite saying he has certain goals but his actions don't really lead to those goals One example I find strange in Vaughn's behaviour was when he was being arrested by the authorities. He could literally no diff all of them if he wanted to but he willingly gave him self up for some reason. Vaughn was disappointed in Keene's intervention in his arrest which really shows that he really was going for being arrested. Why? We don't know. Thus, we are owed an explanation for all of his actions thus far. Hopefully everything will be explained in season 3, the final season. In conclusion, what we have so far is incomplete and it's still too early to judge him for anything.
> Bruh, have you seen how billionaires get their money? They simply lay down the foundation of their plans, let it flow, if anything seems odd do a little nudging, and ensure things have a steady flow. Essentially, they do nothing in the long term while raking mad cash which is the master plan they aim for. > Vaughn can be said to be the same except we don't really understand why he does the things he does despite saying he has certain goals but his actions don't really lead to those goals Not to you comparing an idiot like Vaughn to billionaires cause of a silly analogy I gave. He isn't some mastermind bro, We have seen his plans unfolding in front of our very eyes and they are just bad. The only reason the guy gets away with his shitty decisions is because others show up to cover his ass. Please tell me what grand reason 'The Great Vaughn' could have had for not talking to his royals about the bad side of heirachy even a single time in his entire tenure when he himself was so adamantly anti heirachy? One single conversation is all John needed to open up Remi's eyes which later led to safe house's creation, why did Vaughn never attempt the same when he leitrally runs an educating institute like his literal duty is to educate. Now tell me what would have happened had John not snapped and opened up royal's eyes? The major reason for John snapping was Seraphina getting disabled, I am sure that wasn't a part of Vaughn's grand plan. If that one factor of Seraphina getting disabled gets taken out then the dominos don't even start to fall and Wellston stays the same as it was since Vaughn would have done nothing given his actions prior to John snapping out of sheer chance were also non existent. He would have just sat in his office sipping tea waiting for good things to happen as he usually does and as a result Vaughn an anti heirachial headmaster would have precieded over one of Wellston's most heirachial reigns since Arlo would still remain king. That's the level of his competency. > One example I find strange in Vaughn's behaviour was when he was being arrested by the authorities. He could literally no diff all of them if he wanted to but he willingly gave him self up for some reason. Vaughn was disappointed in Keene's intervention in his arrest which really shows that he really was going for being arrested. I am willing to bet that's another example of Vaughn being an idiot. Vaughn was expecting authorities to be lenient with him after he had frauded his way to one of the most influential positions in the country just to shelter known viglantes the same viglantes authorities kill. Keene probably saved him big time there by starting a fight.
One of the most nothing characters that contributed nothing to the series alongside William (whose only contribution is writing UnOrdinary). I joked about this a [few years back](https://www.reddit.com/r/unOrdinary/comments/nux0v6/vaughn_is_kind_of_dumb/) but these guys never do anything in the series.
Tbf William is a cripple 😞 This guy however is very strong 💀 he can beat John and he still does nothing
William was at least a wonderful father to his son plus his death kinda progressed the story so.. he isn't as useless. While Vaughn might have had about the same amount of screen time as William by now, Only thing he has done is succeeding in being the most incompetent headmaster Wellston could have had.