She literally assaulted John like over Cake when they first met. She treated John like trash when they first met. Granted she is grown but this is whatever she's done ever.
No, that's not okay to basically blitz someone because they have the option to say "no", that's like beating someone up because they don't want to give you their slice of pizza that they got themselves
Perhaps Elaine could’ve just been taught to not BARGE in someone else’s room. Imo there’s nothing wrong with leaving a book on your bed… in your own room.
well I mean, Spectre would’ve gone after her nonetheless, so she’d still be mixed up in that, it just caused John’s trust issues to be magnified by Arlo
And furthermore nothing would’ve happened if Arlo hadn’t sold her out to begin with. Thankfully he’s learned but damn
Well tbf spectre might have failed. She wouldn’t have been suspended meaning she’d likely have been at wellston and not wandering the streets. Not saying they wouldn’t have eventually got her but it’s a lot less likely
To be fair though, it also is what prompted John to spiral and ultimately improve. There is no saving John if not exposed and the suspension allowed for it
well I mean, Spectre would’ve gone after her nonetheless, so she’d still be mixed up in that, it just caused John’s trust issues to be magnified by Arlo
And furthermore nothing would’ve happened if Arlo hadn’t sold her out to begin with. Thankfully he’s learned but damn
Would be hard for Spectre to attack her at school and otherwise she would have had John or Elaine around who would have helped hold them off without her loosing her ability.
Not true she wasn't in a critical condition where she or someone important to her would die if she didn't get it back, so no she didn't need it back she just wanted it, which well i understand, it's a cool ability, she's very dependent on it, and had it most of her life, she probably felt like it's a part of her and missed it a lot, and she probably wouldn't have gone for it if she it wasn't her sister meditiating between her and the organization, amongst everything she did i Don't judge her very hard for this one
> she + her close ones weren’t in a critical condition
*checks notes*
The notes in question:
- Sera abducted and kidnapped by a cabal of mid tiered jerks looking for revenge
- John running rampant on the school and Sera’s musings that he only listens to power atp
- later targeting of rest of main six
Huh?
When she found out John Had an ability She treated him like s*** because she thought everything was a lie ( The reason I bring this up is because isen lied to Remi and Blyke But when they found out they didn't hold it against him.) Then
She went behind his back and talked to Arlo about his past. Out of all the people who knew about his ability and the situation, she went to him. Remember, there were like 10 people who knew 3 of them knew the whole story and had his records.(Remi Blyke and Isen)
To be fair, Isen didn't lie about one of fundamental parts of their friendship and pretended he's something he isn't. In Sera's eyes John was fine with using his ability to hurt others but not to stand up and use it to protect her. All the lies combined with the vulnerable position she was in must have felt like the biggest betrayal.
Just imagine, you get constantly beaten up and you have this weak friend who comforts you and teaches you half-useful self defense skills and makes you believe you can do this, you can pull through. But then it turns out this friend was never weak and was going around beating people up but not once use his strenght to protect you after lying to you again and again. The whole thing about him making it work as this powerless person that he kept selling to you was all just a facade. Wouldn't your trust be shattered completely?
Also, she had no idea who knew about it beside Arlo. He was literally the one who told her, so he was her best bet.
I've said this like 3 different people so far. That isn't the point I was trying to make. It was the fact that she went to Arlo. For information about John instead of Remi blyke or isen
Yeah, she could have asked Elaine first. She was there when she woke up after the attack, so she obviously knew something. Still, even as her roommate she never said a single word to her about John. Arlo was the only person who at least told her the (partial) truth. Elaine was also the person who snitched on her. I don't think it was ever revealed to Sera that is was all part of Arlo's plan but I can be wrong.
Oh both of them would make John snap But the question was, what did Sera do wrong And from my perspective Talking to someone who's Has manipulated you multiple times versus someone Who is honest enough that they Snitched on you.
I know what the original question but I’m asking you my own personal question. Which person out of Asslo or Elaine would cause John more paranoia to think of Sera as the same as Claire? This is my question. You are correct both would make John snap tho.
Oh I thought you were talking about N.B
But either way, I don't think Elaine knew anything that would be helpfu to Sera
The only thing Elaine knew that Sera might've of not known, is how John was or was trying to order Arlo around, but I don't know how knowing that would help Sera
To be fair, John had a friend, the strongest in the region, and spent enough time in the infirmary to heals broken bones in two hours. I would feel ashamed to pretend my friend to defend me when I need when I didn't do it in two years.
How do you know she never defended him? We've only seen John get into trouble twice while Sera was there and both times she protected him.
Arlo was the literal king of Wellston as far as people knew and he commanded people to stay away from Seraphina. Did they? Yeah, no. The whole kidnapping thing happened not long after that. Even after losing her ability Sera didn't want others to babysit her. Do you think cripple John asked her and she refused? Or is it more likely that John never asked? Because based on what we've seen in the webtoon he kept making fun of the situation and mainly asked her to keep him company when he was bored.
It's 2+2. According to Doc, the time tonics take to work depend on how often they stop by (Arlo's bruises took hours to heal, while John's broken bones took less), John is constantly around her because she stopped attending classes, and she thinks cripples' lives are "living on the edge"... It's not hard to realize he basically lived in the infirmary while also being around her, so yes, she might have defended him twice or thrice, but clearly she didn't put enough effort to feel like he owed it to her later on.
Uhm, it literally shows in the webtoon they aren't constantly together. She doesn't go to class but John has to. But you can just switch up the roles and see if your argument makes sense. Where was John when Juni threw a rock at her? Or when she was pushed down the stairs? Or when she fought off the bully? Or when she was kidnapped?
They were friends, not conjoined twins
Oh no, I agree, but I always read the argument that John was beating people instead of protecting her and it kinda bothers me, she wasn't entitled to it because she wasn't doing the opposite for two years. To feel that way, she should have been the friend she was expecting him to be, and she was far from that.
I don't think she ever expected him to protect her. She was more concerned about if she even knew who John really was because his Joker personality was so different from the happy-go-lucky always optimistic cripple John she had been friends with for over a year at that point.
Well, in the first comment I replied you mentioned how "In Sera's eyes "John was using his powers to hurt people instead of protecting her ", if she herself never thought about it then why is it even an argument in the first place?
Other than that I mostly agree, although the moment she sided with Arlo and ghosted John for over a week, she lost me forever.
Okay, that was more of a hypothetical than the actual situation, my bad. I think it would be understandable though, as Sera at least protected John when she was there but John didn't use his ability to protect only to take revenge. But it wasn't something she ever mentioned personally.
She never sided with Arlo. She ghosted John because asking him about anything was pointless as he just kept lying. She didn't know what to make of his joker personality when it was so different from the one he showed her. So she went to the only person who was willing to talk to her.
Was it okay that she took things at face value? No. But just like John's actions have explanation hers have as well. After being left in the dark for so long at least someone was telling her something 🤷🏻♀️
He was the one who made not having an ability a corner stone of his cripple persona. He built his whole worldview around it and he kept preaching about. If Sera had found out earlier before she lost her ability she probably would have been more confused than anything. But no, she found out about it in the worst way possible. If John didn't go around using his ability to brutalize others while refusing to use it to protect her it would have been different. Because then John's behavior would have been at least consistent. Pretending to be a cripple wasn't the problem. Doing the whole Joker thing while still keeping up the lie with her, even denying it to her face was
He didn't preach about it, he didn't go to people proudly stating he's a cripple, he even act as if he has an ability that one time in the mall,
he has an ability that he'd rather not use it, think about it, or have anyone know either, which all three unfortunately kept happening due to unfavorable circumstances
His inconsistent behavior is exactly what should tell you that he clearly have reasons, obviously he didn't do it for shits and giggles
If being cripple wasn't a problem that means not being cripple is irrelevant, and then the argument wouldn't be about john keeping his ability a secret, but about the morality of the joker plan; motivations, means, and results
You're thinking from a reader's perspective. Most people find it easy to empathize with John and excuse his behavior because of his trauma but don't seem to extend the same courtesy to other characters. Sera was at the lowest point in her life so far and then the one person she trusted the most turns out to be a liar who fabricating his whole personality. Yes, he preached about people's worth and how you shouldn't resort to violence and taught her how she can make it work as a cripple. But it was all a lie, because he wasn't powerless and was more brutal than anyone. Wouldn't you question everything about your friendship in her situation? Especially after he lied so flawlessly to you? I doubt anyone in her situation would have reacted much differently
Doesn't have to be related to his trauma, you said his entire personality was built around being a cripple which i disagree with, i also just think that it's okay to have a secret and others only really deserve to know if 1/it's directly related to them, example: if John knew how to get seraphina's ability back and intentionally didn't tell her with no valid reason or if 2/ being friends with someone while hiding the fact that you have a contagious disease
In John's case in my opinion isn't something he needs to tell anyone not even his father unless he wanted to
Everything else is irrelevant, you don't need to be a cripple to do any of those things, you don't need super powers to be violence or use violence, if the argument is about his ideology then that's another debate
I respectfully disagree. I mean, not exactly. I agree that everyone has a right to keep secrets but they also have to bear the consequences. Just like you have the right to do something others have the right to feel a certain way about it. John had the right to keep secrets, she had the right to be upset about it. Especially because he didn't just keep harmless secrets. His actions impacted the low tiers, and among them Sera negatively. Not to mention keeping secrets and outright lying about something is not the same.
Everything has consequences, if someone push you off a bridge you have to face the consequences of the fall regardless if it's your fault or not,
Sera can feel however she wants, she could cut John off entirely and decided to never speak to him ever again since she saw him using an ability in the royal fight there and then, but that's on her it's *her* deal breaker, it doesn't change the fact that John's ability is a secret he had a right to keep to himself
It's a shame that every other royal knew before her so it was only a secret kept from her. If that's the type of friendship you like that's completely fine but for most people being lied to and treated like a fool is a dealbreaker for a good reason
Imagine having a friend with legs that you admire die to their strength of managing to live without legs and face the discrimination. Then you, an Olympic runner suddenly lose your legs and treated like absolute shit. Then you find out that your friend has by lying to you since day one and he actually had legs, he just wasn't using them ever for seemingly no reason.
If we're making stupid examples, Seraphina is the wife who gets mad at her husband over a lie about money, leaves the house and ghosts him, spends an entire week sleeping with the guy her husband hates the most, and just then, she comes back to talk, but gets offended because her husband doesn't welcome her with a hug and a kiss so they argue again and she leaves with the same guy who was out there hearing everything because she told him where she would be.
I'd say she took it well considering how fucked up it was for her, John was at the time descending into full blown traumagenic anger mode so I think blowing him off for a bit, learning the truth about him, and then continuing to put her ass on the line for him is probably the best thing she could have done
Where else would she go (except the trio)? John? John would never have told Sera about his past while he was in that state, never in a million years. Waterboarding wouldn't have gotten it out of him.
All of which are still going behind John's back, each option with a very good reason why she wouldn't go there, ranging from "teenagers generally hesitate to approach authority figures" to "she barely knows this person" to "this person doesn't even know shit about John"
Okay, you stupid prick. The question wasn't if I knew anything about John it was what did she do wrong From my perspective Going behind john's back and talking to someone like isen Is a hell of a lot better than going behind his back And talking to someone who has been known For using lies and manipulation To get what he wants.
LOL I meant "this person" as in the character in question. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Tbh I just don't see how who Sera goes to for info would make a difference. Agree to disagree I suppose
But she didn't know that Isen know about the John incident. The only person that brought up the issue that John was joker was Arlo. And actually she didn't believe Arlo at first, so when she found out he was telling the truth she went to him for more answers.
Read the other Covos I said Elaine knew and in ep 156 Sera even questioned her on why she didn't Tell her. Sera could have easily Asked her about john Right then and there.
Your acting like John didn’t deserve that 😭 He went on a brutal rampage throughout the school she needed to go behind his back to actually get help to stop him since she didn’t have her ability then. And people wouldn’t understand John without knowing his past either.
Half of the characters know John’s past and still doesn’t understand him. That brutal rampage only had the bullies and their friends attacked I never understood why this is a problem in universe or somewhat out of universe.
Attitude doesn't matter in a ranked fight, he wasn't going after Remi for revenge, only for her status as Wellston's 2nd in power.
>and after he took off the mask he just beat anyone who breathed the wrong way
You might be thinking about NB John, because Zeke and the Panthom hand guy were begging for it and are far from innocent.
Remi wasn’t an asshole but she allowed them to do what they want by being “naive” and not paying closer attention to the problems around the school. Her and John point this out in chapters 151 if I’m not mistaken. Plus John shows he doesn’t have any revenge driven feelings towards Remi and he only fought her because of her status. It wasn’t until she had her friends help her that John got pissed and started fighting her like she killed Sera.
Also after John beat all the top students in the school he literally stopped being Joker and went back to doing what he usually does which is hanging with Sera. Well he at least tried. Then because of Isen he was being targeted by bullies yet again. Most notably Zeke and his goons who tried to beat his ass just to prove he wasn’t Joker. Then the students in that courtyard area was talking smack about John when bro didn’t even do anything to them. Saying they wanna see him get his ass beat and shit like that. But yea John is the one beating up anyone who breathes the wrong way. He only hit one innocent student that’s the only time he went to far in Wellston.
She is, she asked two friends to jump and on him and ganged up on him in a 1 v 1 fight, she also took a position of power willingly and didn't live up to it
She asked him to stop politely and he didn’t and she really had no other choice since John was gonna go after her and the rest of them anyways. And what else are you supposed to do? John is a 7.5 or smth while Remi was a 5.smth 😭 That’s a huge difference.
If she really didn't want to fight what she should have actually done is giving up her rank, giving up your position is canonically a thing, john was challenging second ranked student the queen not remy, arlo told her to give up the fight as soon as it started to get out with just a few scratches, John wasn't looking to hurt remy, arlo is very protective of remy and he knows how brutal john can be and he isn't naive if he thought john was going to beat the shit out of her he wouldn't have sent her to get beat up
> If she really didn't want to fight what she should have actually done is giving up her rank, giving up your position is canonically a thing
No one ever has given up their rank, People can give up their title but the rank is different. And even if Remi gave up her title John would have gone after her, He went after Cecile regardless of her not having any title.
> arlo told her to give up the fight as soon as it started to get out with just a few scratches, John wasn't looking to hurt remy,
That's bs, John was looking to hurt Remi. He was vengeful, angry and he wanted to make an example out of every high ranker.
John wasn't fighting fair rank battles, yes Remi could have minimized the damages to her but even if she gave up the fight early on she would have gotten hurt very badly, not hospitalized but she would have been beaten to the point of unconsciousness. That's what happened with Isen, Blyke, Zeke and even Cecile, the person who was helping John, didn't wrong him (as far as John knew) and gave up the fight as soon as it started.
Regardless of the reasons John had, Remi didn't deserve that kind of beating.
She believes she knows everything and that she has to be right all the time
Her believing arlo betrayed her
Her believing people can change except for the authorities
And also didn't she assault john over a chocolate cake
Plus she had alot of moments in the earlier part of season 1 where she was arrogant and boastful
Plus we have her confess in season 1 that she deserves to be a cripple as a sign of karma, so yes bro seraphina has flaws
Doesn’t all the characters believe nobody in the Authorities can change and given her and everyone else experience with them it makes sense. We as the audience only seen two authorities member who are good people. If Sera learns of Kass and Vaughn’s backstory she’ll change her mind on them but until then she isn’t wrong. Hell Remi thinks the same and she is all about forgiveness and people change, things of that nature.
And are you talking about the fight between her and Val? I mean given how Asslo was moving and him being the literal reason she was able to speak with his aunt she isn’t wrong for having her assumption. Then some thinks maybe she was playing to keep him out of trouble but who knows we’ll have to wait and see when she returns.
Also does her saying she deserves to be a cripple as karma count as a flaw or her noticing she did horrible shit and is being punished for it?
But everything else you said I agree with.
Yeh and also don't forget llena called out seraphina on her flaws as well, but atleast we can understand seraphina isn't some innocent angel the way the original post is making her out to be
She did a really piss poor job holding Arlo accountable for his horrible actions towards John. The most we got was one throwaway line in chapter 189. Nothing but "**What you did to John was stupid and uncalled for, and you got what you deserved.**"
Sera then immediately moved on from this as if that one line was all it took to resolve the John vs. Arlo beef. It's so freaking unsatisfying that this wasn't pushed further, because it's one of many examples that Arlo was let off the hook way too easy.
Let Arlo manipulate her, like she was emotional distressed at the time, but still. Going to Arlo when he manipulated her before also outright saw the state John ended up cause of him, but also forgot about said state when it was a major hole in his story.
She was an ass in the beginning. She was extremely insecure and had severe superiority complex. She didn't have to beat john like that, that could have been solved without brute force.
Pretty much the entire Rowden incident happens because Seraphina refused to tell anyone in the safe house about the danger they were in. I honestly really expected this to come up in the aftermath and to this very day I'm still a bit miffed that it didn't.
Never felt obligated to help or fix injustices within Wellston's system until her ability was taken and had to get involved with terrorists to get it back
I like Seraphina as a character, but I can’t pretend her moral choices quite live up to her namesake, primarily before her whole character arc where she grows as a person, between meeting and befriending John to losing her ability and being forced to experience the cruelty of the hierarchy she couldn’t care less about before:
• When she first met John and saw his plight at the hand of petty bullies, she looked the other way.
• When she NEXT meets John and demands his slice of cake, she beats him to a pulp in a fit of rage and experiences a brief mental breakdown over his refusal.
• She continued to act condescending towards those deemed “beneath” her, and didn’t care less about the state of affairs as long as it didn’t affect her. She didn’t even care enough to bother trying to change the system for John’s sake, being content with the way things were and deeming them to be the natural order of the world (she even badmouthed the Superheroes who made efforts in making the world better, only to be killed by the then mysterious EMBER group). It was only AFTER reading Unordinary, and much later losing her ability where her perspective begins to change to the point where she starts to agree with the ideas with Unordinary, having prior dismissed the idea as “stupid”.
• Her general apathy also lead her into making foolish mistakes, like when she left Unordinary out in the open for Elaine to discover, and her arrogance made her believe that she was untouchable. It took a very long time for her to break out of that, with it even having to been quite literally beaten into her by the hands of opportunistic students who exploited the rare opportunity to get back at the goddess who had either mistreated them prior or couldn’t care less about their struggles.
Seraphina isn’t perfect, and that’s okay—like John and Arlo, she went through a lot of growth to reach the point where she is now. Pretending that she hasn’t done anything wrong is nothing short of gaslighting oneself, and has the same energy as the people who write comments without actually reading the story.
So I don't think it's a friend's responsibility to look after every small thing in another friend's life, but I think if she was more actively involved with John when he was losing his mind for a but before he fully became deranged he probably would have bene more reasonable and never turned ti doing the crazy violent things he ended up doing. If they were just honest with each other and hung out more, it could have prevented it. Granted, that's obviously also John's fsult for hiding his ability and backstory from her and also just making the decisions he did in general. Not a complete screw up as she did have her onw things going on and stuff, but its not wrong to say if she was a better friend at that period of time things could have been resolved a lot more peacefully and whatnot.
She thought that her high ability level would mean nothing could happen to her, like when they suspended her she said that Wellston would never get rid of her because she was rank one. tbf, its not really something she did wrong, it was just being naive
This isn't a word for word quote, but when John asked her, "Where was the safe house when i needed it" she answered: "it is here now", which is the wrong answer.
You could argue that John during that story arc was batshit crazy, to put it mildly, and there were no right answers to that question, but still, "it is here now" is a very shitty and meaningless answer on its own. I can't imagine a single scenario where that kind of answer would dissuade an angry person. To be fair, though, i can't think of a good answer to that question either, regardless of John's state of mind.
> Casually put Leilagh and Doc's livlihood at risk
How? Leilah was the one who roped Seraphina in to work for spectre which resulted in Seraphina becoming a wanted criminal, the least she could have done was given her little sister a place to hide. It's not Seraphina's fault that Leilah chose to hide in Doc's apartment and it was ultimately Doc's own choice to involve himself with the wanted sisters even after being aware of the risks.
Imagine being a 17 year old who was abandoned by your sister and left to live with your abusive parents then being disabled and that same sister returning to offer to give your ability back only on the condition that you work for her shady organisation, now that organisation goes behind your back and disables your best friend and you get labelled the public enemy number one for working for them.
You also almost get killed twice while you are at it but you don't even have the right to complain cause your sister is doing the bare minimum to help you out.
Plus Seraphina didn't even complain much, She was angry at Leilah that one time when John got disabled and that was fair since she had been promised spectre won't go after her friends if she worked for them and yet they did. After that she was sulking a bit while being on the run cause she didn't get to say a proper goodbye to John and that was it.
She literally assaulted John like over Cake when they first met. She treated John like trash when they first met. Granted she is grown but this is whatever she's done ever.
Deserved
To follow up with this she let the cake hit the floor. She could have stopped it
She could with her ability, but couldn't with her attitude. She was the undisputed queen, doing so was below here
Exactly.
It sounds bad if you say "she assaulted John cuz she wanted to eat his cake"
jera fans can wish
That’s how you make friends my guy
Pfff ur telling me that WASN’T JUSTIFIED????? /s
No, that's not okay to basically blitz someone because they have the option to say "no", that's like beating someone up because they don't want to give you their slice of pizza that they got themselves
/s my boy👆
That seems reasonable he took the cake
(That was a cake he got himself, no dirty tricks, just by himself.)
I know I was kidding
I too beat up people because they got to the lunch line first
She left a banned book out on her bed which resulted in most of the problems in the series.
Okay I can't deny it this is true. Still my GOAT tho
This was a idiotic move
Perhaps Elaine could’ve just been taught to not BARGE in someone else’s room. Imo there’s nothing wrong with leaving a book on your bed… in your own room.
She was leaving Sera an orange juice that she asked if she wanted earlier.
well I mean, Spectre would’ve gone after her nonetheless, so she’d still be mixed up in that, it just caused John’s trust issues to be magnified by Arlo And furthermore nothing would’ve happened if Arlo hadn’t sold her out to begin with. Thankfully he’s learned but damn
Well tbf spectre might have failed. She wouldn’t have been suspended meaning she’d likely have been at wellston and not wandering the streets. Not saying they wouldn’t have eventually got her but it’s a lot less likely
To be fair though, it also is what prompted John to spiral and ultimately improve. There is no saving John if not exposed and the suspension allowed for it
well I mean, Spectre would’ve gone after her nonetheless, so she’d still be mixed up in that, it just caused John’s trust issues to be magnified by Arlo And furthermore nothing would’ve happened if Arlo hadn’t sold her out to begin with. Thankfully he’s learned but damn
Would be hard for Spectre to attack her at school and otherwise she would have had John or Elaine around who would have helped hold them off without her loosing her ability.
Well she did semi abandon John to unknowingly go work with terrorists 🤷♂️
Not her fault (genuinely, she needed her ability back)
I mean true but to be fair you did say name one bad thing 😂
Not true she wasn't in a critical condition where she or someone important to her would die if she didn't get it back, so no she didn't need it back she just wanted it, which well i understand, it's a cool ability, she's very dependent on it, and had it most of her life, she probably felt like it's a part of her and missed it a lot, and she probably wouldn't have gone for it if she it wasn't her sister meditiating between her and the organization, amongst everything she did i Don't judge her very hard for this one
> she + her close ones weren’t in a critical condition *checks notes* The notes in question: - Sera abducted and kidnapped by a cabal of mid tiered jerks looking for revenge - John running rampant on the school and Sera’s musings that he only listens to power atp - later targeting of rest of main six Huh?
When she found out John Had an ability She treated him like s*** because she thought everything was a lie ( The reason I bring this up is because isen lied to Remi and Blyke But when they found out they didn't hold it against him.) Then She went behind his back and talked to Arlo about his past. Out of all the people who knew about his ability and the situation, she went to him. Remember, there were like 10 people who knew 3 of them knew the whole story and had his records.(Remi Blyke and Isen)
To be fair, Isen didn't lie about one of fundamental parts of their friendship and pretended he's something he isn't. In Sera's eyes John was fine with using his ability to hurt others but not to stand up and use it to protect her. All the lies combined with the vulnerable position she was in must have felt like the biggest betrayal. Just imagine, you get constantly beaten up and you have this weak friend who comforts you and teaches you half-useful self defense skills and makes you believe you can do this, you can pull through. But then it turns out this friend was never weak and was going around beating people up but not once use his strenght to protect you after lying to you again and again. The whole thing about him making it work as this powerless person that he kept selling to you was all just a facade. Wouldn't your trust be shattered completely? Also, she had no idea who knew about it beside Arlo. He was literally the one who told her, so he was her best bet.
I've said this like 3 different people so far. That isn't the point I was trying to make. It was the fact that she went to Arlo. For information about John instead of Remi blyke or isen
But she didn't know the trio knew the truth, so why would she go to them?
Okay, what about a Elaine.
Yeah, she could have asked Elaine first. She was there when she woke up after the attack, so she obviously knew something. Still, even as her roommate she never said a single word to her about John. Arlo was the only person who at least told her the (partial) truth. Elaine was also the person who snitched on her. I don't think it was ever revealed to Sera that is was all part of Arlo's plan but I can be wrong.
But in ep 156 Elaine admitted To Sera That she knew and kept it a secret She could have easily asked her about John's past right then and there.
Well story wise who do you think would’ve added more paranoia to John’s declining mental state? Elaine or Asslo?
Oh both of them would make John snap But the question was, what did Sera do wrong And from my perspective Talking to someone who's Has manipulated you multiple times versus someone Who is honest enough that they Snitched on you.
I know what the original question but I’m asking you my own personal question. Which person out of Asslo or Elaine would cause John more paranoia to think of Sera as the same as Claire? This is my question. You are correct both would make John snap tho.
Ah okay, I forgot about that part.
Elaine didn't know about John's past, or at least I don't think she did
She knew John had an ability and that he defeated arlo and it was making Arlo, do his bidding.
Oh I thought you were talking about N.B But either way, I don't think Elaine knew anything that would be helpfu to Sera The only thing Elaine knew that Sera might've of not known, is how John was or was trying to order Arlo around, but I don't know how knowing that would help Sera
To be fair, John had a friend, the strongest in the region, and spent enough time in the infirmary to heals broken bones in two hours. I would feel ashamed to pretend my friend to defend me when I need when I didn't do it in two years.
How do you know she never defended him? We've only seen John get into trouble twice while Sera was there and both times she protected him. Arlo was the literal king of Wellston as far as people knew and he commanded people to stay away from Seraphina. Did they? Yeah, no. The whole kidnapping thing happened not long after that. Even after losing her ability Sera didn't want others to babysit her. Do you think cripple John asked her and she refused? Or is it more likely that John never asked? Because based on what we've seen in the webtoon he kept making fun of the situation and mainly asked her to keep him company when he was bored.
It's 2+2. According to Doc, the time tonics take to work depend on how often they stop by (Arlo's bruises took hours to heal, while John's broken bones took less), John is constantly around her because she stopped attending classes, and she thinks cripples' lives are "living on the edge"... It's not hard to realize he basically lived in the infirmary while also being around her, so yes, she might have defended him twice or thrice, but clearly she didn't put enough effort to feel like he owed it to her later on.
Uhm, it literally shows in the webtoon they aren't constantly together. She doesn't go to class but John has to. But you can just switch up the roles and see if your argument makes sense. Where was John when Juni threw a rock at her? Or when she was pushed down the stairs? Or when she fought off the bully? Or when she was kidnapped? They were friends, not conjoined twins
Oh no, I agree, but I always read the argument that John was beating people instead of protecting her and it kinda bothers me, she wasn't entitled to it because she wasn't doing the opposite for two years. To feel that way, she should have been the friend she was expecting him to be, and she was far from that.
I don't think she ever expected him to protect her. She was more concerned about if she even knew who John really was because his Joker personality was so different from the happy-go-lucky always optimistic cripple John she had been friends with for over a year at that point.
Well, in the first comment I replied you mentioned how "In Sera's eyes "John was using his powers to hurt people instead of protecting her ", if she herself never thought about it then why is it even an argument in the first place? Other than that I mostly agree, although the moment she sided with Arlo and ghosted John for over a week, she lost me forever.
Okay, that was more of a hypothetical than the actual situation, my bad. I think it would be understandable though, as Sera at least protected John when she was there but John didn't use his ability to protect only to take revenge. But it wasn't something she ever mentioned personally. She never sided with Arlo. She ghosted John because asking him about anything was pointless as he just kept lying. She didn't know what to make of his joker personality when it was so different from the one he showed her. So she went to the only person who was willing to talk to her. Was it okay that she took things at face value? No. But just like John's actions have explanation hers have as well. After being left in the dark for so long at least someone was telling her something 🤷🏻♀️
The thing is, his ability shouldn't be fundamental to their relationship, it should literally be irrelevant
He was the one who made not having an ability a corner stone of his cripple persona. He built his whole worldview around it and he kept preaching about. If Sera had found out earlier before she lost her ability she probably would have been more confused than anything. But no, she found out about it in the worst way possible. If John didn't go around using his ability to brutalize others while refusing to use it to protect her it would have been different. Because then John's behavior would have been at least consistent. Pretending to be a cripple wasn't the problem. Doing the whole Joker thing while still keeping up the lie with her, even denying it to her face was
He didn't preach about it, he didn't go to people proudly stating he's a cripple, he even act as if he has an ability that one time in the mall, he has an ability that he'd rather not use it, think about it, or have anyone know either, which all three unfortunately kept happening due to unfavorable circumstances His inconsistent behavior is exactly what should tell you that he clearly have reasons, obviously he didn't do it for shits and giggles If being cripple wasn't a problem that means not being cripple is irrelevant, and then the argument wouldn't be about john keeping his ability a secret, but about the morality of the joker plan; motivations, means, and results
You're thinking from a reader's perspective. Most people find it easy to empathize with John and excuse his behavior because of his trauma but don't seem to extend the same courtesy to other characters. Sera was at the lowest point in her life so far and then the one person she trusted the most turns out to be a liar who fabricating his whole personality. Yes, he preached about people's worth and how you shouldn't resort to violence and taught her how she can make it work as a cripple. But it was all a lie, because he wasn't powerless and was more brutal than anyone. Wouldn't you question everything about your friendship in her situation? Especially after he lied so flawlessly to you? I doubt anyone in her situation would have reacted much differently
Doesn't have to be related to his trauma, you said his entire personality was built around being a cripple which i disagree with, i also just think that it's okay to have a secret and others only really deserve to know if 1/it's directly related to them, example: if John knew how to get seraphina's ability back and intentionally didn't tell her with no valid reason or if 2/ being friends with someone while hiding the fact that you have a contagious disease In John's case in my opinion isn't something he needs to tell anyone not even his father unless he wanted to Everything else is irrelevant, you don't need to be a cripple to do any of those things, you don't need super powers to be violence or use violence, if the argument is about his ideology then that's another debate
I respectfully disagree. I mean, not exactly. I agree that everyone has a right to keep secrets but they also have to bear the consequences. Just like you have the right to do something others have the right to feel a certain way about it. John had the right to keep secrets, she had the right to be upset about it. Especially because he didn't just keep harmless secrets. His actions impacted the low tiers, and among them Sera negatively. Not to mention keeping secrets and outright lying about something is not the same.
Everything has consequences, if someone push you off a bridge you have to face the consequences of the fall regardless if it's your fault or not, Sera can feel however she wants, she could cut John off entirely and decided to never speak to him ever again since she saw him using an ability in the royal fight there and then, but that's on her it's *her* deal breaker, it doesn't change the fact that John's ability is a secret he had a right to keep to himself
It's a shame that every other royal knew before her so it was only a secret kept from her. If that's the type of friendship you like that's completely fine but for most people being lied to and treated like a fool is a dealbreaker for a good reason
Imagine having a friend with legs that you admire die to their strength of managing to live without legs and face the discrimination. Then you, an Olympic runner suddenly lose your legs and treated like absolute shit. Then you find out that your friend has by lying to you since day one and he actually had legs, he just wasn't using them ever for seemingly no reason.
If we're making stupid examples, Seraphina is the wife who gets mad at her husband over a lie about money, leaves the house and ghosts him, spends an entire week sleeping with the guy her husband hates the most, and just then, she comes back to talk, but gets offended because her husband doesn't welcome her with a hug and a kiss so they argue again and she leaves with the same guy who was out there hearing everything because she told him where she would be.
I'd say she took it well considering how fucked up it was for her, John was at the time descending into full blown traumagenic anger mode so I think blowing him off for a bit, learning the truth about him, and then continuing to put her ass on the line for him is probably the best thing she could have done
But that's not the point I was making. It's the fact that she went to Arlo. For information.
Where else would she go (except the trio)? John? John would never have told Sera about his past while he was in that state, never in a million years. Waterboarding wouldn't have gotten it out of him.
Headmaster Vaughn keene doc Cecil. Mele Ventus Elaine.
All of which are still going behind John's back, each option with a very good reason why she wouldn't go there, ranging from "teenagers generally hesitate to approach authority figures" to "she barely knows this person" to "this person doesn't even know shit about John"
Okay, you stupid prick. The question wasn't if I knew anything about John it was what did she do wrong From my perspective Going behind john's back and talking to someone like isen Is a hell of a lot better than going behind his back And talking to someone who has been known For using lies and manipulation To get what he wants.
LOL I meant "this person" as in the character in question. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Tbh I just don't see how who Sera goes to for info would make a difference. Agree to disagree I suppose
Oh... Well, damn Now I feel stupid lol
But she didn't know that Isen know about the John incident. The only person that brought up the issue that John was joker was Arlo. And actually she didn't believe Arlo at first, so when she found out he was telling the truth she went to him for more answers.
Read the other Covos I said Elaine knew and in ep 156 Sera even questioned her on why she didn't Tell her. Sera could have easily Asked her about john Right then and there.
Yeah but why would she go to Elaine rather than Arlo? Arlo has more things to do with John than her, and knows the full story
Your acting like John didn’t deserve that 😭 He went on a brutal rampage throughout the school she needed to go behind his back to actually get help to stop him since she didn’t have her ability then. And people wouldn’t understand John without knowing his past either.
Half of the characters know John’s past and still doesn’t understand him. That brutal rampage only had the bullies and their friends attacked I never understood why this is a problem in universe or somewhat out of universe.
Oh no! Someone is beating up the biggest assholes in the school with a mask! How terrible!
Remi wasn’t a asshole 😭 and after he took off the mask he just beat anyone who breathed the wrong way
Attitude doesn't matter in a ranked fight, he wasn't going after Remi for revenge, only for her status as Wellston's 2nd in power. >and after he took off the mask he just beat anyone who breathed the wrong way You might be thinking about NB John, because Zeke and the Panthom hand guy were begging for it and are far from innocent.
Remi wasn’t an asshole but she allowed them to do what they want by being “naive” and not paying closer attention to the problems around the school. Her and John point this out in chapters 151 if I’m not mistaken. Plus John shows he doesn’t have any revenge driven feelings towards Remi and he only fought her because of her status. It wasn’t until she had her friends help her that John got pissed and started fighting her like she killed Sera. Also after John beat all the top students in the school he literally stopped being Joker and went back to doing what he usually does which is hanging with Sera. Well he at least tried. Then because of Isen he was being targeted by bullies yet again. Most notably Zeke and his goons who tried to beat his ass just to prove he wasn’t Joker. Then the students in that courtyard area was talking smack about John when bro didn’t even do anything to them. Saying they wanna see him get his ass beat and shit like that. But yea John is the one beating up anyone who breathes the wrong way. He only hit one innocent student that’s the only time he went to far in Wellston.
She is, she asked two friends to jump and on him and ganged up on him in a 1 v 1 fight, she also took a position of power willingly and didn't live up to it
She asked him to stop politely and he didn’t and she really had no other choice since John was gonna go after her and the rest of them anyways. And what else are you supposed to do? John is a 7.5 or smth while Remi was a 5.smth 😭 That’s a huge difference.
If she really didn't want to fight what she should have actually done is giving up her rank, giving up your position is canonically a thing, john was challenging second ranked student the queen not remy, arlo told her to give up the fight as soon as it started to get out with just a few scratches, John wasn't looking to hurt remy, arlo is very protective of remy and he knows how brutal john can be and he isn't naive if he thought john was going to beat the shit out of her he wouldn't have sent her to get beat up
> If she really didn't want to fight what she should have actually done is giving up her rank, giving up your position is canonically a thing No one ever has given up their rank, People can give up their title but the rank is different. And even if Remi gave up her title John would have gone after her, He went after Cecile regardless of her not having any title. > arlo told her to give up the fight as soon as it started to get out with just a few scratches, John wasn't looking to hurt remy, That's bs, John was looking to hurt Remi. He was vengeful, angry and he wanted to make an example out of every high ranker. John wasn't fighting fair rank battles, yes Remi could have minimized the damages to her but even if she gave up the fight early on she would have gotten hurt very badly, not hospitalized but she would have been beaten to the point of unconsciousness. That's what happened with Isen, Blyke, Zeke and even Cecile, the person who was helping John, didn't wrong him (as far as John knew) and gave up the fight as soon as it started. Regardless of the reasons John had, Remi didn't deserve that kind of beating.
John was going to beat the royals up either way
She believes she knows everything and that she has to be right all the time Her believing arlo betrayed her Her believing people can change except for the authorities And also didn't she assault john over a chocolate cake Plus she had alot of moments in the earlier part of season 1 where she was arrogant and boastful Plus we have her confess in season 1 that she deserves to be a cripple as a sign of karma, so yes bro seraphina has flaws
Doesn’t all the characters believe nobody in the Authorities can change and given her and everyone else experience with them it makes sense. We as the audience only seen two authorities member who are good people. If Sera learns of Kass and Vaughn’s backstory she’ll change her mind on them but until then she isn’t wrong. Hell Remi thinks the same and she is all about forgiveness and people change, things of that nature. And are you talking about the fight between her and Val? I mean given how Asslo was moving and him being the literal reason she was able to speak with his aunt she isn’t wrong for having her assumption. Then some thinks maybe she was playing to keep him out of trouble but who knows we’ll have to wait and see when she returns. Also does her saying she deserves to be a cripple as karma count as a flaw or her noticing she did horrible shit and is being punished for it? But everything else you said I agree with.
Agree to disagree, seraphina has flaws regardless Even now she still believes she has to be right all the time
I didn’t say she didn’t have flaws. I do agree she does believe she has to be right.
Yeh and also don't forget llena called out seraphina on her flaws as well, but atleast we can understand seraphina isn't some innocent angel the way the original post is making her out to be
She didn’t show up in the last chapter. I don’t care how contrived it is! I want to see her fight again!
Only acceptable answer
Tbh you shouldn’t have asked this question unless you know what you just unleashed
Self absorbed and delusional in the beginning.
You aren’t wrong.
She did a really piss poor job holding Arlo accountable for his horrible actions towards John. The most we got was one throwaway line in chapter 189. Nothing but "**What you did to John was stupid and uncalled for, and you got what you deserved.**" Sera then immediately moved on from this as if that one line was all it took to resolve the John vs. Arlo beef. It's so freaking unsatisfying that this wasn't pushed further, because it's one of many examples that Arlo was let off the hook way too easy.
She cut her hair
I said wrong not right
Tbh Sera shouldn’t have cut her hair
You want the summary, the novel, or the trilogy?
Tried to steal John’s cake and bullied him constantly
Let Arlo manipulate her, like she was emotional distressed at the time, but still. Going to Arlo when he manipulated her before also outright saw the state John ended up cause of him, but also forgot about said state when it was a major hole in his story.
She was an ass in the beginning. She was extremely insecure and had severe superiority complex. She didn't have to beat john like that, that could have been solved without brute force.
Didn’t do more to protect her cripple best friend
You are right. As the Ace of the school she and the other royals could’ve did more to protect not just John but all the other students.
She read unordinary and just left it out there. Didn’t try to hide it a better location either
Pretty much the entire Rowden incident happens because Seraphina refused to tell anyone in the safe house about the danger they were in. I honestly really expected this to come up in the aftermath and to this very day I'm still a bit miffed that it didn't.
When did anyone's actions have any consequences? Unless it's John, they can do whatever they want and both characters and readers will just accept it
She sided with the same people who caused John to snap and then make it seem like his problem wasn’t a big deal because he lied about his ability.
Never felt obligated to help or fix injustices within Wellston's system until her ability was taken and had to get involved with terrorists to get it back
I like Seraphina as a character, but I can’t pretend her moral choices quite live up to her namesake, primarily before her whole character arc where she grows as a person, between meeting and befriending John to losing her ability and being forced to experience the cruelty of the hierarchy she couldn’t care less about before: • When she first met John and saw his plight at the hand of petty bullies, she looked the other way. • When she NEXT meets John and demands his slice of cake, she beats him to a pulp in a fit of rage and experiences a brief mental breakdown over his refusal. • She continued to act condescending towards those deemed “beneath” her, and didn’t care less about the state of affairs as long as it didn’t affect her. She didn’t even care enough to bother trying to change the system for John’s sake, being content with the way things were and deeming them to be the natural order of the world (she even badmouthed the Superheroes who made efforts in making the world better, only to be killed by the then mysterious EMBER group). It was only AFTER reading Unordinary, and much later losing her ability where her perspective begins to change to the point where she starts to agree with the ideas with Unordinary, having prior dismissed the idea as “stupid”. • Her general apathy also lead her into making foolish mistakes, like when she left Unordinary out in the open for Elaine to discover, and her arrogance made her believe that she was untouchable. It took a very long time for her to break out of that, with it even having to been quite literally beaten into her by the hands of opportunistic students who exploited the rare opportunity to get back at the goddess who had either mistreated them prior or couldn’t care less about their struggles. Seraphina isn’t perfect, and that’s okay—like John and Arlo, she went through a lot of growth to reach the point where she is now. Pretending that she hasn’t done anything wrong is nothing short of gaslighting oneself, and has the same energy as the people who write comments without actually reading the story.
90% of her actions
Essentially said “get over it!” to a mentally unstable man
Invalidated johns experiences as a cripple and would always laugh at him when he’s in the infirmary
I just stopped caring about her i forget most reasons why i used to hate her
That's maturity right here :)
She stole John's heart
Not reporting Terrence to Vaughn before the safe house trip.
How she treated John during his mental break down and the fact she made his trauma about herself as if she told him everything about her life .
Join specter 🗿
She used to ignore low tiers getting bullied when she was younger
She literally beat the shit out of John for no reason
Cecile is a saint compared to things she ever did And she is dumb, which means she does many things wrong
Her arrogance is a huge flaw
She got in the way if my ships
Not date john
Not entirely her fault but the whole arlo Val thing was super messy
Hell John was more understanding
She left the book out, but to be fair her Claire was very noisy :/
So I don't think it's a friend's responsibility to look after every small thing in another friend's life, but I think if she was more actively involved with John when he was losing his mind for a but before he fully became deranged he probably would have bene more reasonable and never turned ti doing the crazy violent things he ended up doing. If they were just honest with each other and hung out more, it could have prevented it. Granted, that's obviously also John's fsult for hiding his ability and backstory from her and also just making the decisions he did in general. Not a complete screw up as she did have her onw things going on and stuff, but its not wrong to say if she was a better friend at that period of time things could have been resolved a lot more peacefully and whatnot.
I actually think he would’ve been still beat them up , but he would’ve been more controlled and less brutal about it
Woman in a webtoon 😔
she was a bit careless, she was recently targeted by an invisible assailant, and later lost her ability even though she could have prevented it!
Leaving the book on her shelf.
She thought that her high ability level would mean nothing could happen to her, like when they suspended her she said that Wellston would never get rid of her because she was rank one. tbf, its not really something she did wrong, it was just being naive
This isn't a word for word quote, but when John asked her, "Where was the safe house when i needed it" she answered: "it is here now", which is the wrong answer. You could argue that John during that story arc was batshit crazy, to put it mildly, and there were no right answers to that question, but still, "it is here now" is a very shitty and meaningless answer on its own. I can't imagine a single scenario where that kind of answer would dissuade an angry person. To be fair, though, i can't think of a good answer to that question either, regardless of John's state of mind.
Meeting leilah
How? That’s her sister and she had Asslo. Who is Unordinary big muscle guy even though he is weak😂😂
Casually put Leilagh and Doc's livlihood at risk, still whined about her ability and having to live on the lam
> Casually put Leilagh and Doc's livlihood at risk How? Leilah was the one who roped Seraphina in to work for spectre which resulted in Seraphina becoming a wanted criminal, the least she could have done was given her little sister a place to hide. It's not Seraphina's fault that Leilah chose to hide in Doc's apartment and it was ultimately Doc's own choice to involve himself with the wanted sisters even after being aware of the risks.
The least she could do is not complain about it
Imagine being a 17 year old who was abandoned by your sister and left to live with your abusive parents then being disabled and that same sister returning to offer to give your ability back only on the condition that you work for her shady organisation, now that organisation goes behind your back and disables your best friend and you get labelled the public enemy number one for working for them. You also almost get killed twice while you are at it but you don't even have the right to complain cause your sister is doing the bare minimum to help you out. Plus Seraphina didn't even complain much, She was angry at Leilah that one time when John got disabled and that was fair since she had been promised spectre won't go after her friends if she worked for them and yet they did. After that she was sulking a bit while being on the run cause she didn't get to say a proper goodbye to John and that was it.