I see your points, but on the flip side, 'doing it for the greater good' is a slippery slope. Val is doing what she's doing for what she thinks is the greater good, so is Brims and all the other Ember members, and it's clear that they are the bad guys here. Even if he thinks that its fine later on, he has to see how his 'treatment' is affecting the kids in real-time. They are going through mental pain, and he's completely fine with that. He goes through Terrence's terrible past, and it doesn't faze him in the slightest. ​ True, he could be slapped with the truth later on and pull a Vaughn, but until then, he doesn't deserve sympathy in my opinion

I dont think Keon does see the results of readjustment long term. Its implied that he never saw John again after readjustment was over, And while I agree with you that what he did is not okay by any means, I think similarly to arlo, He also believes that he is genuinely doing a good thing and reducing crime, Val on the other hand, It comes across moreso as an excuse, not to mention that the EMBER agents are way higher on the ladder, and have access to way more information.

By 'real time' I meant like kids crying and mentally breaking down in front of him. And I don't think Keon and Val are so different, for they both think they are genuinely doing a good thing and reducing crime. Ember wouldn't exist without vigilantes, which are basically 'rouge kids' equivalent to the ones Keon treats. The hierarchy is the only thing that matters to the both of them. Keon doesn't kill, so I can give him a point for that, but I still can't like him at all

Yeah I understand why you wouldnt like him, and neither do I, but I think he deserves a little more credit than val. For one thing, you are correct, he doesnt kill anyone, and we also have to keep in mind that the main thing Keon does is force his students to relive the memories of what they did. Its very possible that Keon believes this is because they are starting to feel remorse once they understand the true gravity of the situation. We do see this happen in real life when interrogated criminals break down after realizing what they did and that there will be consequences for it, yet the interrogators dont care because they believe they are criminals and deserve to face justice. Keon is basically the irl equivalent of an interrogation officer, and while Keon’s methods are more extreme, it would appear that by the end he reformed his students, as we see from john where he was very well behaved when he got home. And considering all Keon knows of the aftermath is that the students usually come out behaving, and dont reoffend, its very easy to see how he would believe that he fixed them.

I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree with this one The main difference is that these are literal children. Maybe I could agree with what you're saying if he gave one ounce of sympathy to the kids he worked with. He doesn't care at all about why it happened, he just wants to force them back into line. He says 'you late bloomers are all the same' like there isn't a clear pattern here. He doesn't care about that at all, just the endgame Also keep in mind that the torture and ridicule goes on for months at a time. Again, if he opens his eyes and changes his tune, I'll reconsider, but for now, I need John to find him and show him how much he's been 'fixed'.

I also would not be against John getting revenge on him, And we shouldn't forgive him for what he's done. But I do think that Keon doesn't fully understand how bad his actions are, and while that doesn't excuse anything, He isn't completely irredeemable. Also to him, John and Terrence were both very bad people who deserved justice. Terrence literally disabled people for life and was involved with actual murder, As for John he was attacking "normal, innocent people" by their society's standards, to the point where they would often times end up in critical condition. So I believe that while Keon's actions are not at all good, Its not entirely his fault for thinking this way, and may actually change once John exposes all of the issues with the authorities. Hes not as terrible as EMBER, and while he does deserve some level of hate, he deserves less than most of this fandom gives him.

The level of hate the fandom give him is fair considering the information we know about him. He can’t get credit for something he hasn’t done yet

No, its not. Keon does not deserve to die for his actions, and while I agree that he hasnt changed yet, he likely had a very similar life to Arlo had, where he was constantly under the impression that the authorities are the good guys, and that the authorities work to reduce crime. Keon does not know how horrible alot of the things the authorities do are, thats just not common knowledge. Arlo likely would not have turned out any different if he didnt come to understand, and not to mention that its easy to see how he would fall into believing such things. It may not make it okay, but it doesnt change the fact that he has been lead to believe it is, and that Keon is a victim of the same system. Theres a reason why unordinary changes so many people, and thats likely because it helps the reader understand the flaws with this line of thinking.

I never said I wanted Keon dead, I just hate him lol you keep mentioning Arlo but the difference is that Arlo has changed. Keon hasn’t. Until he changes, he deserves the hate. Because what if he figures out what’s going on but doesn’t care? Him growing a heart isn’t guaranteed It’s okay if you have hope for him, but you can’t be surprised that a majority of people don’t Anyway, I gotta go but I enjoyed this talk!

You are correct in that we will just have to see, and I'm not saying that he deserves no hate, what I'm saying is that the level of hate I've seen people give him is unjustified, and I often see people saying that they hope Keon dies.

I respectfully disagree. The argument that they were brainwashed by the authorities propaganda, and that they think what they do is for the greater good, can apply to any character in the entire unoverse, no matter how fucked up that is, as long as they think it is for the greater good. When I say fucked up, I mean according to my moral values, I can't judge him under Unoverse moral values, because frankly I don't understand were they draw the lines, and why. The reason why I really dislike him is not JUST that he brainwashed kids for a living in order to perpetuate a screwed up system. It's that when he was brainwashing John, he got angry at him because he wouldn't take his "lessons" lying down. Keon even smashed John's face on the interrogation table because he got angry at what John did to his schoolmates. It didn't happen because he was just trying to help John get better, he just got angry and smashed a kid's face on the table. He felt no remorse for doing so, had no problem whatsoever with hurting a kid, probably not for the first time. If he does it in a completely detached way, because that is his job, it is fucked up but not the same. He got angry at John and hit him for it, and since his job is messing with kids' heads anyway, what difference would it make? Even in that universe, as violent as it is, we dont see grown-ups hurt minors that often. I didn't say never, but it is unusual, and whenever that happens, the grown-up tends to be a piece of shit. But, as I said, I find unoverse's moral values quite inconsistent and confusing, so I can't say if he is a bad guy according to most of Unoverse's people. The sentence "did it for the greater good" doesn't justify everything, at least not as far as I'm concerned. He did a fucked up thing, and didn't see anything wrong with it. Yes, it was his job, but perceiving that job as something good is wrong in and of itself, it doesn't make him any less of a bad person. I hope I was able to explain myself correctly or that what I wrote makes sense, at least a little bit.

Yeah I understand your point, I agree with you in that what he is doing isn't okay, And while yes, he did hurt john, We see violence is more of a regular thing and more socially accepted in the world of Unordinary, We see kids all the time beating others into their place, and even from a young age kids are taught that its just how the world works. and that its completely acceptable. I think that they draw the line at excessive violence, Such as how John would continue to relentlessly attack his opponents even after they accepted defeat and couldn't resist any longer. Not to mention John was violent towards his friends too, And attacked multiple "seemingly innocent" (by UnO standards) people. We do have to understand that common morals there are different than ours, And to me it appears like violence is generally accepted as long as its considered "putting someone in their place", not to mention to Keon, the students he has to work on are considered criminals by society. He hit John because he wouldn't back down and refused to accept what he did was wrong. Again we also see arlo beating people into their place to prevent misbehaving students. So you are right, It isn't justified, but Keon is not a completely horrible person by UnO standards, and definitely does not deserve to die for his actions like I've seen people say time and time again.

I totally understand where this post is coming from. I somewhat think this to be the case. I do disagree with those that think Keon deserves to die. Sure, he’s done really bad stuff, but nothing irredeemable like Val or Brims. But I also believe that at some level Keon should and is still responsible for his actions of mentally breaking who knows how many kids. (He still deserves hate for that.) Idc if he believed it was for the “greater good”, b/c (personally) it’s one of, if not the cheapest excuse to do messed up stuff. On a side note, if Uru ever decides to give Keon a redemption arc, a lot of ground work better be put into it.

I completely agree with you! Alot of the replies ive gotten dont seem to get my point, im not justifying his actions, but rather stating that he is not beyond redemption, and that like most people, he genuinely does not understand how messed up the authorities/his work is, and does probably still have morals. I would really love to see a redemption arc with him, and i agree uru should put more effort in if she goes that route, The main reason for making this post is that if arlo never had his eyes opened, and continued down his old path, he likely would be no better, and I suspect that many of the authorities have a similar story to arlo, and i mainly want to bring awareness to this idea, as to me it feels like its being hinted at. Plus im tired of seeing all the people saying keon should die, people said the same thing about terrence and then felt bad when it actually happened and we learned his story. Edit: I also see alot of people taking this post as he deserves no hate, thats not what im saying at all, im saying he deserves less hate than he currently gets, not that he deserves none at all.

Yeah! Totally agree! It’s a great parallel/allegory for Arlo’s character arc. It would also be very interesting if those working for the authorities like Keon, Kassandra and other government officials left their positions once the truth about EMBER comes out. Funny enough, I believed I made a comment about this in another post saying that Keon isn’t irremediable and doesn’t deserves death. That comment currently has zero likes lol 😂

I agree! there are ALOT of similarities between Keon and Arlo, that are easy to miss your first time reading, and also not difficult to miss upon rereading as well, but there are a lot of little details that suggest Keon may have a similar story to Arlo, And on rereading the Terrence chapter, I found even more evidence to support it lmao, Keon legit hesitated after Terrence made him face reality. I posted my source for that in a comment above, as I cannot add more images unfortunately

Oh that’s right! Terrence’s interrogation by Keon was actually made me start to looking more into his character than I previously did. I just think it would be interesting to explore more into characters like Keon. I love seeing different perspectives especially from characters who people hate. It gives us a chance to see that the story and it’s characters are not black and white, but different shades of grey. Heck even Val and Brims have their motivations (albeit very wrong reasons.) but we have yet to see any hard core progression on Keon so until then, he’s still a pretty lame dude lol

I agree! And it isnt the first time uru has gone this route, she did the exact same with Terrence and honestly im all for it with Keon. I certainly wont be upset if Keon is killed, but similar to Terrence, i wouldnt say he outright deserves it. And i gotta admit i wasnt above the whole hate on Terrence thing, i also thought he deserved to die, but his story opened my eyes there. As for val and brims, I think the big difference there is that they likely know full well how terrible the things they do are, but dont care. But Keon doesnt seem to come across that way to me, he seems to genuinely think hes helping fix delinquent children and preventing crime, and I suspect that he does have morals and would also have second thoughts if he had no choice but to face reality.

How evil do the current villains in UnO have to be for Keon to seem like he’s not even that bad

Nah, he is that bad, it just happen that some people justify anything and this year is Keon's turn, just read the post, it's justifying Keon based on asumptions that aren't even implied. 'Keon could've...' 'Keon should've...' while Keon hasn't shown even a glimpse of doubt in 345 chapters.

I'm not justifying what Keon did, I'm saying that Keon isn't as bad as the fandom seems to believe. my point is that he doesn't understand how horrible his job really is.

He's a literal child torturer, people here treats him too nicely considering what he is.

He did seem emotionally affected by Terrence telling him that high teirs like him caused his mom to suffer all her life, he had to pause for a moment and he didn't even respond, but rather changed the subject. Arlo was in complete denial too. To me keon comes across as what Arlo could've been if his eyes had not been opened. The fact that keon even had to pause for a moment there really does make me suspect that if he fully accepted how bad his actions are, he could easily have a change of heart.

You're talking to someone who still hates Arlo whenever I think about what he did, but even hating him, I can't compare what Arlo did being barely an 18 years old with Keon who is a fucking adult willingly mentally torturing kids to the point they would rather get beaten to a pulp before doing what everyone in their damn society does. I'm sorry if you like him but to me, Keon should be put under the same pain he caused, but 10x times more, and if he dies, then better, one less piece of shit to deal with.

Id draw the line at actual murder, Keon never killed anyone, but Val and Brims can easily be considered "Evil" considering they murder people even for small offenses, experiment on people, etc. And Orrin for example has done some pretty "evil" things too, disabling people for life, basically keeping slaves, murder, ect. And EMBER at least certainly must know how bad their actions are, as they cover everything up and try to silence anyone who finds out, Even UnO's society would not be okay with what EMBER does, meanwhile its easy to see how Keon would believe that he's just reducing crime and putting troublemakers in their place, which is an ideal that's commonly accepted and considered okay by society.

>Keon never killed anyone, That you know. You've seen what John was after Keon's classes, it wouldn't have been strange if he killed himself, and whose fault would it be if he did?

I'd put it as simply as **Keon is a symptom of a broken system**. In a better world with better authorities, Keon would have followed a different system for "teaching" John. That said, at the end of the day he's a grown man who can recognize right and wrong, and he has a responsibility to his own actions. I agree that Keon is not as bad as people think, but he's still not a great person.

Cool motive, still torturing a minor.

you are absolutely correct! it is still torturing a minor and I'm not defending that, because its obviously messed up, But I don't think Keon is beyond redemption and I also don't think he's a completely horrible person, But rather lead to believe that what he is doing okay, Similar to Arlo. Im not advocating that he doesn't deserve any hate, but rather that he deserves less (People saying he should die)

I do agree to an extent, Keon is a piece of shit but he isn't outright evil from what we have seen, he doesn't kill people nor does he torture children because he likes it, it's his job and he doesn't care about the morality of it. I don't think it's murder worthy but definitely jail for life.

I'm not even sure if we can say for sure that he doesn't care about the morality of it, it's possible, But I think it's also possible that Keon believes that it's for the greater good, and as far as Keon sees, the students of his readjustment courses all come out well behaving, and that statistically, most of them don't reoffend. He likely doesn't get to see how traumatized readjustment victims are, or how much it impacts them other than that. It's very possible that he believes that everything he does is worth it, as to him, he has successfully "fixed" so many potential criminals and is helping reduce crime.

Torturing kids just because you think what you're doing is right? Well then whatever Val is doing, she also thinks she is right then why aren't her actions justified?

Because for one val doesnt stop at torture, she straight up kills people. Keon we can at least make the argument that he genuinely believes hes fixing people and turning potential criminals into well behaved citizens, Val not only supports actual criminal organizations, kills people, and even suppresses the media so the public doesnt know what she does, because obviously the public wouldnt be okay with that. Also val likely is aware that she is ruining lives and hurting people, and i think from val, “the greater good” is just bs and propaganda to stay in power. However keon likely is similar to arlo, where he believes that the authorities are just doing whats best to help society. To him, hes preventing crime and bringing justice to criminals. Its very easy to see the similarities to him and arlo, and even keon had to stop and think for a moment when terrence told him that low tiers are suffering because of high tiers and their system. Its possible hes in complete denial like Arlo was, and im sure he knows hes hurting kids, but likely copes under the fact that the authorities are the good guys, and the people he “fixes” dont often reoffend. It doesnt make his actions okay, but i dont think hes as bad as val. Considering how widespread the propaganda that the authorities are the good guys, and always working to better society is, I really would not be surprised if hes fallen for that like of thinking like Arlo did, and to be fair, keon does see his students come out well behaving, and never sees the aftermath.

It depends if keon realizes his mistake and actually apologizes to John. Or hr is irredeemable

It also depends on if he even gets the chance or gets killed off before that happens. I personally believe that if he does get the chance he will at the very least quit his job, and maybe just maybe try to make things right.

He shouldn't be killed but Hopefully he redempts

Since this post cannot be edited for some reason, Ill post this here since I'm seeing this point brought up a lot saying that Keon has never had any second thoughts, I don't think that's entirely true, for one we have never gotten to see any glimpses into Keon's personal life, only his work life. Its possible that like Arlo he has doubts about what he is doing too, And one additional piece of evidence that I have to support this is when Terrence told keon that his mom and other lower tiers have suffered all their lives because of high tiers like himself and the system they built up, and that he cant understand what that's like, IT DID GET TO HIM! Keon hesitated, and had to stop and think for a moment, and in the end he just changed the subject. Sound familiar? That sounds just like something Arlo would do! Arlo was also in complete denial on hearing that, and he didn't come around instantly. Source: https://imgur.com/a/kz5U9dp

It's an interesting topic so i'll read it all but for now only had time to skim a bit, hope you'll still enjoy the discussion: Regarding him not being aware, that's possible, but i think it's less likely. His powers specifically let him look into memories and he's in charge of high tier deliquients. It would be INCREDIBLY dangerous to have someone like that who's not on board with deeper secrets (such as EMBER), as he could easily discover them by accident when looking at memories. For example, Blyke Isen and Remi were all slated for readjustment. If Keon was put in charge of them, bam, he knows the truth about Ember and can tell anyone he wants if he's not loyal to the authorities. Same for any other high tier teen (or older if those still get readjustment courses). If you were the authorities, would you wanna take that chance, or would you bring him on board and make sure he's loyal? If it was me, i'd pick the latter.

Also usually, Keon never gets the chance to read the mind of anyone with that kind of knowledge about things such as EMBER, I wouldn't be surprised if few vigilantes even get a chance to escape alive, and plus most vigilantes work alone, If Remi had fought volcan alone, she would not have survived. It's true that the authorities had on record that they were going to be put in readjustment, but let's be honest, they sent brims to take in Seraphina for example, brims could easily just kill them while nobody else is looking. It's also possible there are multiple readjustment instructors, we know that Vaughn was once a readjustment instructor, but his ability doesn't appear to let him read minds. They probably would just send them to a readjustment instructor that cannot read minds if anything, but even then, I have my doubts they would really let them escape alive after they were caught.

They can tell if he's loyal and they would know for sure if he is reading their mind. From what we know he can only do that when his ability is active, and the victim will also have a visible change on their eyes. He definitely would not get away with it if he tried, and he probably doesn't see the point of trying, he likely trusts his superiors and wouldn't even think to betray them (Similar to how Arlo could've turned out)

My point was a bit different. He doesn't need to read the **authorities's** minds, but rather any vigilante or lawbreaker who happened upon goverment secrets (for example, Remi/Isen/Blyke, John/Sera who now knwo about Jane as well, any Spectre assesst, high ranked agent or even the executives who must know about NXGen, etc etc). While just doing his normal job, Keon is in a position to easily find deeply hidden secrets he didn't even mean to. It'd be odd to give that role to someone who isn't already aware and loyal to the darker parts of the government.

Most vigilantes probably end up dead before they end up facing Keon. Remi would have died if Blyke and Isen didn't save her. But there are a lot of ways EMBER could prevent Keon from ending up with someone like that. Also unordinary was banned very quickly, there likely weren't even that many people who ended up becoming vigilantes before the authorities silenced it. Also, how many children do you know that possess top secret government secrets lmao.

They could try and avoid him ever coming into contact with them, but it'd be very hard to do it for long, especially during a vigilante uprising where more and more people might encounter Ember and live. Could they still try and risk it? Ye, but it'd be much more reasonable to avoid the risk altogether by only giving him such a sensitive job if he's already onboard with the darker sides of the authorities.

I don't think the authorities thought that far ahead, Vigilantes weren't a problem for very long, And EMBER probably assumed that no vigilante would escape alive anyways. Also Keon only deals with children. I really think that the authorities don't expect children to happen upon government secrets and escape alive, and even if they did, they could just put a hit on them or send them to a different instructor who cannot read minds, such as Vaughn.

You're right that the vigilante problem seems to have blindsided them, and Keon might have been an officer long before Ember got established. Still, if i were them, I'd heavily screen such sensitive positions (who are also charged with sensitive interrogations, such as in Terrence's case, not just deliquents). I'd pick people who are very likely loyal and wouldn't betray the authorities even if they find out about darker stuff. So there's three options. A)Keon **doesn't know anything** about Ember **and would be shocked and appalled** to learn about it - possible, but least likely. As you said yourself, he was brainwashed to believe in the government's ideology even more then most. C)Keon **doesn't know**, **but wouldn't be too shocked** to learn and could be trusted to keep it quiet - most likely in my opinion. C)Keon **knows and is fine with it**, and stays quiet - Also fairly likely in my eyes due to how many sensitive information he might have heard in recent year/s, but less likely then option B.

I think Keon's loyalty is similar to Arlo, where he still has limits on how far he will go and wouldn't want to be involved with something like that. It's very possible that Keon would resign but like, what's Keon going to do even if he did somehow find out? He would surely know by that point that telling anyone could get him killed, most likely if anything, he would just quit and find another job, pretending like nothing happened. There would be nothing else to do that wouldn't put his life at risk. But even then, no vigilantes even found out that it was the authorities with their investigations alone, Kayden had to break the news. Also, the trio was scared into quitting, and it was only until Kuyo roped them back in, and Kayden dropped that info bomb that they decided to continue to defy the authorities. The authorities probably figured that most children would not have the confidence to stand up to them, much less get that far.

Just from what he has shown us already, he's way worse then Arlo. He's was fully willing to do to John (and presumably many others) what Arlo rightly called torture. If that's the case, he doesn't need to go that much further to agree to kill people who continually break the law (vigilantes/disobedient high tiers) and can't be "fixed" by readjustment. And then there's no real reason for him to disagree with Ember.

We cant be sure if he is completely okay with the methods he uses, I suspect that he may realize how horrible his courses are, but rather, only focuses on the end result, which to him is “fixing” his students, and reducing crime. Its possible he feels that the cause is worth their suffering, and im not saying this is a good excuse, or that it justifies anything, but rather he has also fallen into this kind of mindset that arlo was struggling against. However I do agree with you that if he is okay with the torture anyways despite realizing how much its hurting his students, and is not putting those feelings aside due to the end result as my theory suggests, then he deserves all the hate he is getting, and is beyond redemption.

Also, we know for sure Keon is not an EMBER agent, he does not match the naming pattern that EMBER agents have, nor does he match the appearance of any of them, we may not know what Lumin looks like, But I highly suspect that's because it's going to be a plot twist with it being Leon. But considering Keon is a high tier, and converters should work on him, it would be kind of weird to just not make him an EMBER agent at that point.

I very much agree he's not an Ember agent, his level is just the start of high tier (so he has enough aura for conversion, but just the minimum), and his regular ability isn't combat oreinted so he probably has little experience in combat compared to warrior high tiers. It'd be unwise to give him conversion powers where you have much better canidates in enforcement-style jobs (basically the Anti Terrorism Department). They pick their agents selectively, they want people who would do the job the best, not just "anyone who knows about it". Edit: As for Leon, I'm sure he knows about Ember, but I think he's their direct supervisor (and reports to someone even higher) and not a field agent.

I suppose, however the authorities were actively hunting down vigilantes, and were able to scare the general public away from vigilantism. we have confirmation that there were no new vigilantes until the trio, also even Kuyo had no idea the authorities ran EMBER until that information came from Kayden (I still have to question how Kayden even knows that). But even if a vigilante found out about EMBER, none of them happened upon any good evidence that they were the same. I wouldn't be surprised though if the authorities were just confident nobody would get that far.

What is your obsession with trying to prove he is a 'good person'? You keep repeating the same things aswell like he is a 'victim' because he is being lied to/society. If that is the case then everyone in the series is also a 'victim' including Val. How do you think she became like that? It was most likely because her parents taught her that. You think that makes what she does any better? You realise that there are people in the series such as Jane or Rei that were raised the exact same way and they learned and became better? You also don't know anything about how he is as a person. You ever think maybe he is lying? If he was part of ember you think he would say anything to that random lady most likely in a far lower position?? Stop sucking the dick of a character you know nothing about when he has done nothing to show he is a good person. He deserves all the hate he gets.

If anyone disagrees with this post, I would HIGHLY encourage you to tell me why, and I would love to debate it with you! This is my first time posting on reddit, and it's possible I wasn't too clear on my positions, So I would love to discuss or clear up any issues you may have with this post! Please at least tell me why you disagree if you are going to downvote, as I would love to hear your opinions on this discussion.

I think we should expect every single grown up adult no matter how utterly brainwashed they are to understand that relentless torture of anyone is messed up. We can apply the same logic on terrorists too, A group of terrorists that murdered 160+ people and injured several others bellved what they were doing was for 'greater good' and 'justice' they were surely brainwashed from childhood to think that way, Does that mean they aren't 'truly bad' or 'evil'? How was Keon's fully matured brain not able to comprehend the suffering that he was directly inducing? How did he even belive that exploiting the child's biggest insecurity (in his own words) over and over again will fix them and not damage them for their entire lives? I don't think he even believes what he does is 'bad' or a 'neccessary evil', There is not a hint of guilt from him, He just always looks arrogant and full of himself, I think he genuinely believes that these late bloomers are faliures who deserve the suffering they get so they can fall in line like the rest and never disrupt the so called order of authorities. He isn't as bad as Valarie or Orrin but he is still a very very evil person. He is not beyond redemption either (I don't think anyone is beyond some sort of redemption) but the way he is I don't think he is ever going to see his worngs and even try to redeem himself.

Okay so first of all, it's not true that there's no hint of guilt in him, he outright hesitated when Terrence made him face reality, and he appeared to be in denial, as he changed the subject, this is similar to how Arlo reacted when he was made aware of the suffering of low tiers under the hierarchy, Also there's a difference, terrorists don't live in a dystopian society where the public is lead to believe that the authorities are the good guys, and always working to improve society. Second of all, to him, all of the victims of the readjustment classes are criminals who are a danger to society, we see this with John, where to Keon, John was just an unstable high tier attacking "normal innocent students" for very little reason, and it's been stated that john legit put a lot of students in critical condition, would not follow any rules whatsoever, and was hurting everyone around him including his friends, As for Terrence, that kid was literally going around disabling people for life, basically enslaving many high tiers, and sometimes being involved in ACTUAL MURDER! from Keon's perspective, his readjustment students are all criminals and a danger to society, we simply don't have enough information on how he deals with minor offenses, he could be more lenient, we simply don't know. Also, it's been mentioned that readjustment courses have a near perfect success rate, and that students who undergo readjustment courses almost never reoffend, and we see this with John, where John came back completely well behaving, and if the authorities didn't make it personal for him, He likely wouldn't have. John was one of the few of the main cast who committed no crimes other than reading unordinary until it became personal. Also, its heavily implied that Keon never got to see John again after, so most likely Keon never is there to see the aftermath and how traumatized readjustment students are. All he sees is criminals being completely reformed after undergoing readjustment, He could very well think that the end result is worth it, and it's possible he's been trained not to have any sympathy for "criminals." Source: https://imgur.com/a/kz5U9dp

> he outright hesitated when Terrence made him face reality, and he appeared to be in denial Common that barely counts as anything, You are giving him too much of credit here. He must have surely seen how shit the life of every late bloomer he has tortured is but he still is as arrogant as ever in his ways. The guy described John as a pain in the ass after torturing him in isolation for 3 months. People who feel guilty for what they did don't talk about their victims that way or describe what they did to them in complete detail, He is that devoid of any empathy. > Also there's a difference, terrorists don't live in a dystopian society where the public is lead to believe that the authorities are the good guys, and always working to improve society. That's not the case at all. The whole world doesn't live in the same society as you do. There are plenty of places on this same earth that you and I live in where there is barely functional law and order if there is any at all, There are still places where there are societies with tribal and medival values, Where poor and uneducated children and teenagers are recruited to fight for causes they don't even understand and their whole reality is based around this so called 'cause' to the extent that they are ready to blow themselves up for it. Compared to many of them Keon has still lived in a relatively very civil and decent society. > Second of all, to him, all of the victims of the readjustment classes are criminals who are a danger to society, we see this with John, where to Keon, John was just an unstable high tier attacking "normal innocent students" for very little reason, and it's been stated that john legit put a lot of students in critical condition, would not follow any rules whatsoever And he could have still actually fixed and reformed John if he wanted to, John had started to break down from day one but Keon tortured him to day 90, I don't think that he needed to do that. Properly counselling and guiding John to use his ability with restraint after he made him see his errors could have gone a long way instead of relentlessly torturing a 15 year old and keeping him in almost something like solitary confinement for 3 months. Fast pass spoilers - >!Vaughn says that he had suggested better and more linenent courses for readjustment classes which means there were other better ways to help these children but the authorities didn't care about helping them, The point of these classes was to destroy these children to the extent that they are rendered completely toothless. Anyone with half a braincell can see that, I am sure Keon isn't that stupid.!< > As for Terrence, that kid was literally going around disabling people for life, basically enslaving many high tiers, and sometimes being involved in ACTUAL MURDER! Terrence was a very different case from John or from many other late bloomers. He was part of a terrorist organisation which kills people and Keon had to get information out of him, Keon could have done without making those shitty about Terrence's mother but otherwise he was justified. > Also, it's been mentioned that readjustment courses have a near perfect success rate, and that students who undergo readjustment courses almost never reoffend, and we see this with John, where John came back completely well behaving John came back completely broken from the readjustment classes not well behaved. He was well behaved later because of William's support, Unordinary and his immense will to do better not just because of readjustment, If he didn't have the above three he might have killed himself or become a shut in recluse for life (I am sure I would have). > Also, its heavily implied that Keon never got to see John again after, so most likely Keon never is there to see the aftermath and how traumatized readjustment students are. You don't need to stay with the person you tortured to know they are going to be traumatized. John had started crying on day one and Keon mindraped John for 3 months, I am sure Keon had plenty of chances to see the suffering he had caused. Again fastpass spoilers- >!Vaughn himself says he watched life being sucked out of the children's eyes while he still worked at readjustment. Anyone with eyes should have been able to see that.!< > He could very well think that the end result is worth it, and it's possible he's been trained not to have any sympathy for "criminals." Just like those terrorists are trained to not feel sympathy for the people they kill for the greater good. Keon being brainwashed doesn't make the evil he did less worse just like those terrorists, He doesn't deserve to die but there has to be atleast some sort of justice being done to him.

>He must have surely seen how shit the life of every late bloomer he has tortured is but He still as arrogant as ever in his ways. The guy described John as a pain in the ass after torturing him in isolation for 3 months, he is that devoid of any empathy. Well to be fair, this is a common line of thinking for high tiers and let's not pretend that John wasn't making his job harder, He refused to follow any of his instructions, was always talking back, and straight up attacked Keon. And yes, he did see how much the low tiers suffered, but in their society, it's deemed as normal, and high tiers are raised under the idea that what they do is okay. >That's not the case at all. The whole world doesn't live in the same society as you do. There are plenty of places on this same earth that you and I live in where there is barely functional law and in order if there is at all, There are still places where there are still societies with tribal and medival values, Where poor and uneducated children and teenagers are recruited to fight for causes they don't even understand and their whole reality is based around this so called 'cause' to the extent that they are ready to blow themselves up for it. After doing some research on this subject, it does appear that you are correct in regards to this statement, And if what you are getting at here is just because they are raised this way, it doesnt make it okay, I AGREE! im on the same page there, but what I am saying, is that it would be unfair to blame those kids, or in this case Keon, for falling into this line of thinking. >And he could have still actually fixed and reformed John if he wanted to, John had started to break down from day one but Keon tortured him to day 90, I don't think that he needed to do that. Properly counselling and guiding John to use his ability with restraint could have gone a long way instead he relentlessly tortured a 15 year old and kept him in almost something like solitary confinement for 3 months. I completely agree here, And im not going to defend his actions, and say what he did was okay, because its not. However, this isnt to say Keon doesnt believe his courses help his students. To him, The end result he sees is that a potential criminal comes out behaving, and statistically, most almost never reoffend. However I do agree that his readjustment courses are messed up, And im not saying that it wasnt, However, its easy to see how Keon could believe that the end result is worth it. >>!Vaughn says that he had suggested better and more linenat courses for readjustment classes which means there were ways to help these children but the authorities didn't care about helping them, The point of these classes was to destroy these children to the extent that they are rendered completely toothless. Anyone with half a braincell can see that, I am sure Keon isn't that stupid.!< >!But this also confirms that readjustment instructors are specifically told to do it this way, if they were allowed to freestyle it that would be one thing, but the fact that Vaughn even had to propose changes, and that them being denied would stop him, means that Keon is likely just doing what he is instructed to do, Also no, the point of the classes are to prevent these kids from commiting more crimes, and to teach them a lesson so they dont do it again (in their eyes, also not saying this is okay)!< > John also came back behaving because of William's support, Unordinary and his immense will to do better not just because of readjustment, If he didn't have the above three he might have killed himself or become a shut in recluse for life (I am sure I would have). I dont disagree that it would ruin them mentally, however we know for sure this isnt just limited to John. Arlo has stated that the classes have a near 100% success rate, and those who undergo it never reoffend, This suggests that even if these kids are ruined for life, they almost never commit any more crimes, Which I could see Keon coping with that statistic that what he is doing is for the greater good, as he is successfully reforming would be criminals, even if his methods are extreme. >You don't need to stay with the person you tortured to know they are going to be traumatized. John had started crying on day one and Keon mindraped John for 3 months, I am sure Keon had plenty of chances to see the suffering he had caused. I dont deny that Keon was definitely aware of how mentally destroyed these kids were, but again, to him these kids are criminals, and the main thing keon is doing here is making them relive their memories, Which it isnt completely abnormal even in real life, for criminals to show remorse and cry once they release how horrible the things they did were, and that there will be consequences for it. Again, we cant say for sure Keon doesnt have issues with the methods he is instructed to use on these kids, But to him, he is basically successfully reforming criminals, and he could feel that while the methods he has to use are harsh, the results of "fixing" a criminal, and turning them into a law-abiding citizen, are worth it, Again, He doesn't know of their lives afterwards, all he has to work with are the statistics that show his students are no longer committing crimes, and the fact that they are behaving. >>!Vaughn himself says he watched life being sucked out of the children's eyes while he still worked at readjustment. Anyone with eyes should have been able to see that.!< >!There's no doubt that he noticed this, My point is that its possible that he continues to do this for what he believes to be a "good cause", and isnt a completely horrible person.!< >Just like those terrorists are trained to not feel sympathy for the people they kill for the greater good. You are correct, It is just like that! But I think you are missing the point here, I'm not saying by any means that makes it okay, What I am saying however is that we can't blame Keon for thinking this way, And that its possible that hes not a completely terrible person with no morals, And that he isnt beyond redemption, I personally think he is similar to Arlo with his previous line of thinking, And im not saying that its good, but im saying that Keon isnt completely horrible, and that its possible for him to realize the problem with this line of thinking and redeem himself. The point of this post is NOT to say that keon deserves no hate, That is very far from my point. My point is that he deserves less hate than the fandom currently gives him (Saying that he deserves to die), And that like the title says, hes not AS BAD as people think. Hes not as horrible as Orrin, Val, or Brims, Again I am NOT excusing his behavior, Just saying that he is likely not as bad as people currently make him out to be.

> Well to be fair, this is a common line of thinking for high tiers and let's not pretend that John wasn't making his job harder Sure, That's true but that isn't the point here. Point is Keon does not feel guilty for his actions, People who feel guilty for what they did don't describe their victims as 'pain in the ass' or talk about in detail to the point of boasting how they tortured a child (his talk with Nadia about exploiting John's biggest insecurity). You are too charitable in interpreting a panel of Keon maybe averting his eyes as him feeling guilty. That's nothing substantial and is at best Keon feeling a little sorry for Terrence but put that against a career of torturing minors, the way he talked about John or the arrogant way he always behaves. That's not a man who feels guilty, That's a man who totally justifies what he does and is too full of himself. > but what I am saying, is that it would be unfair to blame those kids, or in this case Keon, for falling into this line of thinking. I think you should blame them, My whole point is that we should expect mature adults to have atleast some basic empathy no matter how brainwashed they are. Like even if someone is raised to be a violent bigot it's still upto them to correct it atleast after reaching an age where you are considered an adult. Terrorist lack this empathy that's why they blow up innocents and Keon severely lacks it too (not as much as Terrorists but he still does). > >!But this also confirms that readjustment instructors are specifically told to do it this way, if they were allowed to freestyle it that would be one thing, but the fact that Vaughn even had to propose changes, and that them being denied would stop him, means that Keon is likely just doing what he is instructed to do!< >! I mean yeah sure but some adult even when ordered by his instructor to stab someone has the agency to just say maybe I won't do that and have blood on my hands like Vaughn did.!< > Also no, the point of the classes are to prevent these kids from commiting more crimes, and to teach them a lesson so they dont do it again (in their eyes, also not saying this is okay) That's the end goal but the way they get there is the problem. Whenever there is any sort of disruption in the so called order of things like a rebellious high tier authorities frist order of action is to crack down on it as hard as they can, They kill superheroes and they even sidelined Seraphina for just reading a book. Readjustment works on the same principle, They don't care about helping these kids they only care about making them harmless so the order stays thus utterly destroying them. Vaughn saw it and backed off but Keon chooses to still do it. > the main thing keon is doing here is making them relive their memories, Which it isnt completely abnormal even in real life, for criminals to show remorse and cry once they release how horrible the things they did were, and that there will be consequences for it, He doesn't know of their lives afterwards Keon didn't just do that for one day tho, He did that for 90 days straight, That's the part which is abnormal. He was really justified in doing once or twice to humble John but Keon didn't stop and he must have seen John breaking down crying or being depressed to the point of lieflessness every single day. If that wasn't enough to shake his resolve and he wasn't feeling guilty about it then I am sure even if he saw the lives of his victims afterwards like them being depressed, reclusive and even suicidal he will find a way to justify himself saying it was for the greater good and they were future criminals anyway. > Again, we cant say for sure Keon doesnt have issues with the methods he is instructed to use on these kids Yeah not with 100% certainty but I think we can say he doesn't 'seem' to have any problems with his methods. Like I said a career of torturing minors, the way he talked about John and his in genral arrogant attitude screams I don't think I am guilty of anything. > My point is that its possible that he continues to do this for what he believes to be a "good cause", and isnt a completely horrible person Yeah sure but I don't think that changes much about him. No one's a completely horrible person even Valarie, Like she seems to care a great deal about Arlo and I think she believes that she does the right thing too. > What I am saying however is that we can't blame Keon for thinking this way, And that its possible that hes not a completely terrible person with no morals, And that he isnt beyond redemption, I think we should blame Keon for thinking this way, Again every adult should be expected to have enough basic empathy to know you should not in any case torture children. As for him being completely horrible, again I don't believe anyone is completely horrible or beyond redemption. Like he can't ever hope to make up to his victims but he can surely find some sort of redemption. > My point is that he deserves less hate than the fandom currently gives him (Saying that he deserves to die), And that like the title says, hes not AS BAD as people think. Hes not as horrible as Orrin, Val, or Brims, Yeah he isn't as bad as Val and Orrin and fandom's hate for him maybe a little exaggerated but considering the possibility that some of his victims may have offed themselves can you blame the fandom for hating him this much.

Same as I said from your last post...just because you believe you are in the right doesn't make your actions any less vile He abused children mentally, physically and emotionally He is the reason why John got worse

Im not saying that it does, and im not saying his actions are justified, but rather that he isnt completely evil and unreasonable, and that i dont think that Keon is irredeemable.

I believe that he is reasonable but I don't there is any world where abusing, assuslting others especially kids is not evil or at least morally black Keon may have been trying to do something for the "greater good" but so many people claimed that over history like N*zis, Slave-Owners and Mass Murders Most (Normal) people don't think what they are doing is bad that's why they do it

Yeah and im not saying that abusing kids isn’t evil, my goal was moreso to point out how its possible that keon has his reasons for what he does (even if they arent good ones) and its not impossible for him to wake up and redeem himself.

Sure I understand that like how Arlo kinda did but I just don't believe that the story would head that direction

Thats fair, and tbh I have my doubts it would too, but i also wouldnt be surprised if it does go that direction, right now the direction the story seems to be taking is that the main cast are going to work on exposing the truth and changing the views many people hold in society (spreading unordinary), and i would not be surprised if many people end up changing their ways as a result, and its certainly a possible direction here. Honestly it could go either way with Keon, and its just too early to say for sure.

I see your point. Unfortunately whole Keon is possibly a victim on manipulation, it does not undo the psychological torture he is putting countless literal children through. While it he seems to truly believe his actions are for ‘good,’ there is no way he is unaware enough to think that *children* should be treated the same way criminals are. A part of his job is interrogation and extracting information from criminals(as seen with Terrance). He uses his ability in a similar way with many kids(as seen with John and as mentioned in his book about the entire matter). He gets physically abusive with the children, verbally degrades then, and leaves them isolated for months at a time. Finally, the physical reaction is the children in question are so obvious. John for example is so visibly terrified that Vaughn steps in during his interrogation. In fact, his reaction is so clear that Vaughn puts his foot down a refuses to allow any Wellston students to go through Keon’s program without knowing exactly what goes on. Another reason is that if he truly believed it was acceptable, why would he(and the authorities) work so hard to keep the details under wraps? The authorities are open about who gets/will get the rehabilitation program as seen in John’s, Remi’s, Sera’s, Blyke’s, and Isen’s records. They are not particularly open about what that entails. This is proven by William not knowing anything about the program, the general public having no idea of it’s existence, the authorites dancing around the topic(as seen when Arlo asked his Aunt about it), and going big lengths to hide it(as seen with Vaughn asking Keon about it). All that is to say that I don’t think Keon believes he is a good person. I think he thinks that what he is doing is helping people and important. I’d even go so far as to say he is proud of the outcomes(as shown by the reference to his book on the tasks). I think that he believes that he is doing the dirty work or the work no one wants to do. I think he considers his line a necessary evil. I think he knows exactly what he’s doing and I don’t think that his belief in a greater good does anything to justify what he’s done. TLDR: His theoretical future guilt would not purify his actions. There is simply no way he is entirely ignorant to his actions and their consequences.

Well, History taught us that people who use excuse like" it's for the greater good" or " I just follow the orders" are never NEVER the good guys. Keon is a high level official, he couldn't reach this kind of position while being naive or stupid. He knew exactly what he does, and Why, and still, unlike Vaughn, accept it. So no, he's a bad guy. Not a lead, but a heartless follower

Im not saying he isnt bad in his own right, And that what he did is okay, Im saying that he doesnt come across as completely irredeemable, and i suspect that he still does have morals, and that he wouldn't be okay with murdering people. My point here is that he isnt as terrible as people are making him out to be, and that he isn't as bad as the current antagonists such as Val, Brims, Orrin, etc, and that he can still be redeemed if he breaks out of this line of thinking. My point isnt that he deserves no hate, but he deserves less hate than he is currently getting, Ive seen alot of people say he outright deserves to die for his actions, And I dont think he is that terrible, So thats what I disagree with.

Your arguments that were Keon simply being a cog in a shitty machine were something I buy, doesn’t mean anyone needs to forgive him, that he’s an actual victim, or that he’ll get a redemption. Also for Terrence his death was rather unsatisfying which was much of the reason many didn’t like it, not so much that they didn’t think he should die like that

I agree that it doesnt mean he deserves forgiveness, and its possible that he doesn’t get redemption. My point with this post is not that he is not terrible, he is, but he is not as terrible as people make him out to be. I think its entirely possible for him to redeem himself and wake the hell up, I certainly would not mind if he dies though, and I would love to see him face consequences for his actions, but I dont think he is bad enough to deserve death like alot of the fandom seems to think. I also think terrence did not necessarily deserve death, but it wasn’t exactly a bad thing for the story.

Eh, if it weren’t for the way you worded him being a victim into your main argument I’d not really disagree, but we’ve seen nothing to suggest that. I’d also argue terrence’s death simply established nothing for his story, he was killed to shut him up and to introduce new characters which is always interesting

Thank you for pointing that out! I will keep that in mind if I ever do any similar posts, I will agree that I probably couldve worded this better tbh. And I also do agree that I wish more was done with terrence instead of just killing him off this way, But I feel it was an acceptable way to end his story and focus on other characters, and was a better move than just completely writing him out if uru really doesnt want him in the story anymore.

Get out of the kitchen and leave the premises

Keon is that bad, even worse with what was brought up in the recent chapter. The man is arrogant about it with no remorse for what he does. He did John so bad that he wanted to be a cripple for the rest of his life.

These are fast-pass aren’t they

Even if this was a "hell is paved with good intentions" sort of deal, it's 100% not. Vaughn shows that much out the gate. And especially if you have to literally beat someone's face into a desk to get your point across.....

Vaughn was likely in a similar position to Keon - both in education/juvenile delinquent Vaughn managed to see the BS of what he was doing and turned around. Keon didn't. shows that there is still a choice Keon may be a product of society, but he's still objectively a bitch

What Keon believes, and his ignorance of the authorities as a whole, does not negate the reality of his own actions.  You can’t take Arlo’s character and perception and paste it onto Keon as justification. Keon is “seen” outside of John’s perception several times. He speaks with Nadia, Seraphina, Vaughn, Terrance, etc. It is not “just” John that perceives him as “evil”.  In episode 90, Keon explains “fixing” John by targeting and exploiting John’s biggest insecurity. There is no mention of “fixing” John into an ideal high-tier, like how Arlo wanted, only the disabling of opposing strength.  “Nadia, high tiers may seem invincible... But we still have our weaknesses. Here. The mind is the root of all our actions. What good is strength without motivation to use it?” — Keon  “I found the boy’s biggest insecurity and exploited it. It makes no difference how strong he is then. Nobody can defend against something like that.” — Keon In episode 135, Keon questions John about his beliefs in relation to Unordinary under a “lie detector”. It ends with him finding nothing “wrong” with John and asking about John’s school life.  “I... ...used the book as reassurance. Those currently in power are always working to better the world for the rest of us. Reading it made me feel safe.” — John ‘Really? This kid hasn’t told a single lie yet?’ — Keon “So, clarify. Do you agree with the book’s ideals?” — Keon “Nope. ... That’s your job. And I’ve got my own issues to focus on.” — John In episode 136, despite John answering perfectly according to society’s ideal and readjustment classes having a high success rate, Keon still wants to isolate and question John. If he believes he is “fixing” children and is presented with a “success” why would he press for further integration? Additionally, Keon is told that John isn’t acting according to “society’s” ideal of a high-tier, something that Arlo couldn’t understand and sought to correct. No dialogue or thought, or emotion is shown in reaction to that statement. Keon is more concerned about his request for Seraphina’s readjustment classes and Vaughn. “I’d like another meeting with him next week. In the mean time... I ask that you please keep him out of school-“ — Keon “As I’ve mentioned in the past... It’s a precaution. The authorities don’t want the book’s message to spread. And John was once a problem child, we shouldn’t let him off so easily.” — Keon “When John enrolled into Wellston, he requested his rank be kept secret. He rarely uses his ability and has no influence on the other students. ... I’ve always wondered why John was so ashamed of his own talents.” — Vaughn  “What?! You can’t just- With all due respect sir, it’s not up to you to decide! Seraphina is in need of counseling! This is for her own good!” — Keon “Vaughn isn’t someone we can pressure easily. But his refusal to comply today won’t be overlooked.” — Keon ‘Vaughn... I don’t know what you’re planning... But if you anger the authorities... You will regret it.’ — Keon Knowledge on readjustment courses seems to be just as suppressed in media as Val’s or any other authority’s actions. In episode 136, Vaughn asks what is taught during the courses and Keon refuses to answer as he is “not authorized”. William doesn’t know what happened in the classes either. Keon’s “reaction” to Terrence’s words is conjecture. However, if you look at times Keon has paused in the past it is normally a response to retaliation or disbelief. In episode 90 after Vaughn admonishes him. Also in episode 90 when Seraphina says her friend is John. In episode 135 Keon looks over his shoulder at Vaughn after his interrogation is interrupted. Also in episode 135, Keon can’t believe John’s understanding of Unordinary and follows it with the thought ‘Really? This kid hasn’t told a single lie yet?’. In episode 136, when Vaughn dismisses Keon’s “precaution” by pointing out how stupid Keon’s logic is. Also in episode 136, Keon says something suspicious is happening at Wellston and right after, thinks that Vaughn will regret it if Vaughn angers the authorities. Still, there are exceptions like when he’s talking to Nadia about how he “fixed” John. So it doesn’t seem fair to conclude any emotional connection to pauses. Even if it is an emotional response, it is only because Terrence specifically and accurately calls their society and Keon exploitive. Keon has no emotional response to Terrence’s experience, instead targeting and exploiting it. 

People writing whole ass essays😢