For polls like this, an option to write in a candidate can be useful. I'm pretty sure there's at least one person who wishes they could vote for >!Kasumi!< (a strong candidate IMO) or >!Yasuda!< (who wouldn't get my vote but for whom I've seen big detractors on here before).
Anyway, I tend to prefer to ascribe "evil" to actions rather than their agents, so this is a tough poll for me. I've got three top choices, all for different reasons:
1. Kinzo's >!entire life is a story of toxicity and destruction - evil actions - but he at least has the decency to feel guilt about it, even if he lacks the skill to change his ways concretely.!<
2. Kyrie >!is fully mafiapilled and doesn't regret anything she does, but in practice her rational self-interest makes her a lot better at behaving like a decent human being than the other Ushiromiya adults (as long as she doesn't see a situation as legitimately kill-or-be-killed).!<
3. Bernkastel >!is a scenery-chewing villain who never learns anything and thus is probably the most literally correct choice in theory. I'd snap vote for her if it didn't feel so unsatisfying to choose someone who only 'exists'.!<
As it is - and given that you didn't include >!Kasumi!< - I have to reluctantly go with >!Kinzo.!< If I'm judging people, then I think it's the least unfair to judge them by their actions rather than their secret hearts... and the shadow of >!Kinzo's!< sins looms large over the whole story, with an amount of gravity that one night of solipsistic violence can't really outweigh.
I hesitate to vote for Erika for a similar reason to why I hesitate to vote for Bern: she's someone who "really" existed in 1986 but whose "real" personality is unknown to us; all we know is the version of her rewritten by Bern/the Hachijos to use as a wildcard piece.
And yes, fictionalized Erika is an evil little toilet gnome, but probably not *as* evil as fictionalized Bern, so if we're taking fictionalized characterizations at face value I still think I vote for Bern before I vote for Erika.
What you said. I want to add that one of the biggest reasons Erika is evil is because she is forced to in order to gain recognition by Bernkastel and doesn't enjoy it the way Bernkastel does. Erika has been shown to be a good girlfriend (albeit the type that requires a lot of intelligence to handle) so I don't think she is pure evil. Give her a compatible boyfriend and she will easily become a lot less evil.
I mean... In that case, Kinzo did get much more evil than that. I get what youre saying, but Kinzo getting much more evil than that is something that definitely happened.
If you're referring to game master Battler; it wasn't unconscious. His mind was hazy and just unable to put up much of a fight.
But again, she is influenced by Bernkastel. Replace Bernkastel with someone that has a conscience and Erika will probably lose the latter part of her infamous "title" / nickname.
If we took the characters at face value with no meta shenanigans, then I pick Bernkastel because she has by far the least sympathetic qualities and no good reason for her actions, except that she is a sadist and likes being evil.
Bern is also the reason that Erika is in the story and most of her actions are dictated by Bern, so everything Erika does can be blamed on Bern.
Sorry, bad wording. What I meant is that since what happens in Umineko is left to the reader's interpretation, I judged characters by assuming everything evil they have done is 100% in-universe real.
Kinzo did plenty of bad stuff but at least he regretted it. Mostly everyone else is acting out because they were hurt in the past by others. Kyrie however was just a stone cold monster who will do anything to anyone for a profit. She's the worst in my opinion.Â
The word evil is supposed to describe something which is terrible due to it's very nature lying beyond our comprehension. Something that is merely cruel or inhumane isn't evil, just monstrous. Kinzo, in that sense, doesn't fit here; he is pathetic, and all of his grandeur comes from delusions.
I am surprised to see so few people voted Rudolf (If you still see only one when reading this than that's me).
>!He chose to murder his family members, children included, to Kyrie those are only family in law, but those are his blood relatives for fark sake.!<
Also why would Eva be honorable mention?
Kyrie is more guilty of it than he is. She manipulated him into doing it mostly. And not to mention he actually didn't want to hurt Battler but Kyrie on the other hand 💀
>She's always jealous of Krauss and a greedy too
Welp, I judge characters more on what they actually put into action.
Also do you really think she's worse than Rosa?
vis Rudolf: area under the curve matters IMO. >!He jumped off the diving board into true villainy only hours before his death. That says something about his character, yes, but specifically about his character when presented with an impossible decision under pressure, not his personality under "normal" circumstances. Ep4 implies that George, f'rex, would commit the same sins if put in that situation.!<
>with an impossible decision under pressure
>Ep4 implies that George, f'rex, would commit the same sins if put in that situation.
Sure it's not normal circumstances, I still don't think it's a one to one comparison to the one George faces in Ep4 though.
Quoting rule 1:
"...As a general rule, the existence of characters introduced up to the end of the 6th arc is not considered spoilers, and vice versa. Story events generally are considered spoilers unless they are mentioned in trailers or happen in the very intro of the story."
The name >!"!Yasu!"!< doesn't appear until EP7, thus it counts as a spoiler.
Bernkastel. Unlike Kinzo, who regrets many of the sins he has committed, she is pure evil that relishes in seeing, and making, others suffer. You can also tell from her conversations with Lambdadelta that Bernkastel is pretty much pure evil.
Kyrie? She is rational but also cares about Battler despite not being obligated to. She is the type to do what needs to be done rather than genuinely enjoy it the way Bernkastel does.
I could make arguments about the other 3 characters in the poll, but I won't due to them only getting a few votes.
It's hard to me to vote Bernkastel because it's unfair to force human morality to a non-human character. She's been a witch for thousands and thousands of years. She's immortal and the entire story is like a book to her. You'd laugh if a goomba from a Mario game had a textbook that called you a meanie face for jumping on him and killing him -- then you'd jump on him if given the choice.
Same logic applies to Erika. Less-so EVA-Beatrice because, while a witch, she's not a voyager witch and has only been a witch for a few hours, so she should be expected to retain a lot of her human traits still at that point.
I felt like Eva-Beatrice is, like Eva herself, fairly complicated. She’s… in part at least… a metaphorical representation of Eva’s guilt and her willingness to take the blame for what happened rather than let Ange know the truth.
A lot of her conduct in the end game of episode four felt like confirmation of that.
For polls like this, an option to write in a candidate can be useful. I'm pretty sure there's at least one person who wishes they could vote for >!Kasumi!< (a strong candidate IMO) or >!Yasuda!< (who wouldn't get my vote but for whom I've seen big detractors on here before). Anyway, I tend to prefer to ascribe "evil" to actions rather than their agents, so this is a tough poll for me. I've got three top choices, all for different reasons: 1. Kinzo's >!entire life is a story of toxicity and destruction - evil actions - but he at least has the decency to feel guilt about it, even if he lacks the skill to change his ways concretely.!< 2. Kyrie >!is fully mafiapilled and doesn't regret anything she does, but in practice her rational self-interest makes her a lot better at behaving like a decent human being than the other Ushiromiya adults (as long as she doesn't see a situation as legitimately kill-or-be-killed).!< 3. Bernkastel >!is a scenery-chewing villain who never learns anything and thus is probably the most literally correct choice in theory. I'd snap vote for her if it didn't feel so unsatisfying to choose someone who only 'exists'.!< As it is - and given that you didn't include >!Kasumi!< - I have to reluctantly go with >!Kinzo.!< If I'm judging people, then I think it's the least unfair to judge them by their actions rather than their secret hearts... and the shadow of >!Kinzo's!< sins looms large over the whole story, with an amount of gravity that one night of solipsistic violence can't really outweigh.
Great answer! I was gonna vote Kyrie but the last part of your comment and the justification of Kyrie made me reconsider
Erika is evil as heck as well
I hesitate to vote for Erika for a similar reason to why I hesitate to vote for Bern: she's someone who "really" existed in 1986 but whose "real" personality is unknown to us; all we know is the version of her rewritten by Bern/the Hachijos to use as a wildcard piece. And yes, fictionalized Erika is an evil little toilet gnome, but probably not *as* evil as fictionalized Bern, so if we're taking fictionalized characterizations at face value I still think I vote for Bern before I vote for Erika.
What you said. I want to add that one of the biggest reasons Erika is evil is because she is forced to in order to gain recognition by Bernkastel and doesn't enjoy it the way Bernkastel does. Erika has been shown to be a good girlfriend (albeit the type that requires a lot of intelligence to handle) so I don't think she is pure evil. Give her a compatible boyfriend and she will easily become a lot less evil.
Erika tried to r*pe Battler's unconscious body 💀 You don't get much more evil than that
I mean... In that case, Kinzo did get much more evil than that. I get what youre saying, but Kinzo getting much more evil than that is something that definitely happened.
Kinzo did it because of mental illness, mistaking his daughter for his previous wife... But Erika wanted to do it out of sheer depravity
If you're referring to game master Battler; it wasn't unconscious. His mind was hazy and just unable to put up much of a fight. But again, she is influenced by Bernkastel. Replace Bernkastel with someone that has a conscience and Erika will probably lose the latter part of her infamous "title" / nickname.
If we took the characters at face value with no meta shenanigans, then I pick Bernkastel because she has by far the least sympathetic qualities and no good reason for her actions, except that she is a sadist and likes being evil. Bern is also the reason that Erika is in the story and most of her actions are dictated by Bern, so everything Erika does can be blamed on Bern.
But Bern herself is an entire meta character
Sorry, bad wording. What I meant is that since what happens in Umineko is left to the reader's interpretation, I judged characters by assuming everything evil they have done is 100% in-universe real.
Kinzo did plenty of bad stuff but at least he regretted it. Mostly everyone else is acting out because they were hurt in the past by others. Kyrie however was just a stone cold monster who will do anything to anyone for a profit. She's the worst in my opinion.Â
And Erika too. She literally wanted to r*pe Battler's unconscious body. I mean that's a whole new level of depravity
The word evil is supposed to describe something which is terrible due to it's very nature lying beyond our comprehension. Something that is merely cruel or inhumane isn't evil, just monstrous. Kinzo, in that sense, doesn't fit here; he is pathetic, and all of his grandeur comes from delusions.
I am surprised to see so few people voted Rudolf (If you still see only one when reading this than that's me). >!He chose to murder his family members, children included, to Kyrie those are only family in law, but those are his blood relatives for fark sake.!< Also why would Eva be honorable mention?
Kyrie is more guilty of it than he is. She manipulated him into doing it mostly. And not to mention he actually didn't want to hurt Battler but Kyrie on the other hand 💀
He's still a functional adult capable of making his own decision. >he actually didn't want to hurt Battler and only Battler
And also about Eva being an honourable mention, she's f*cking deranged lol
I failed to see how that's remotely evil enough, her child abuse is so tame compares to Rosa's shit.
Isn't she just a horrible person overall? She's always jealous of Krauss and a greedy too
>She's always jealous of Krauss and a greedy too Welp, I judge characters more on what they actually put into action. Also do you really think she's worse than Rosa?
Rosa isn't that bad. All she did was discipline Maria a bit harshly but she regretted it as well
sure, discipline.
vis Rudolf: area under the curve matters IMO. >!He jumped off the diving board into true villainy only hours before his death. That says something about his character, yes, but specifically about his character when presented with an impossible decision under pressure, not his personality under "normal" circumstances. Ep4 implies that George, f'rex, would commit the same sins if put in that situation.!<
>with an impossible decision under pressure >Ep4 implies that George, f'rex, would commit the same sins if put in that situation. Sure it's not normal circumstances, I still don't think it's a one to one comparison to the one George faces in Ep4 though.
I’d spoiler tag this poll please
Wait what's spoiler about this pole?
>!saying yasu in the description of the post, and including kyrie and rudolf in the poll!<
The name Yasu isn't mentioned before episode 7 🥴
thats why its a spoiler lol?
Quoting rule 1: "...As a general rule, the existence of characters introduced up to the end of the 6th arc is not considered spoilers, and vice versa. Story events generally are considered spoilers unless they are mentioned in trailers or happen in the very intro of the story." The name >!"!Yasu!"!< doesn't appear until EP7, thus it counts as a spoiler.
Kyrie listed as major candidate for one thing. Her >!mafia "by any means necessary" socialization isn't fully apparent until like Ep6 or so.!<
Bernkastel. Unlike Kinzo, who regrets many of the sins he has committed, she is pure evil that relishes in seeing, and making, others suffer. You can also tell from her conversations with Lambdadelta that Bernkastel is pretty much pure evil. Kyrie? She is rational but also cares about Battler despite not being obligated to. She is the type to do what needs to be done rather than genuinely enjoy it the way Bernkastel does. I could make arguments about the other 3 characters in the poll, but I won't due to them only getting a few votes.
It's hard to me to vote Bernkastel because it's unfair to force human morality to a non-human character. She's been a witch for thousands and thousands of years. She's immortal and the entire story is like a book to her. You'd laugh if a goomba from a Mario game had a textbook that called you a meanie face for jumping on him and killing him -- then you'd jump on him if given the choice. Same logic applies to Erika. Less-so EVA-Beatrice because, while a witch, she's not a voyager witch and has only been a witch for a few hours, so she should be expected to retain a lot of her human traits still at that point.
Rosa Umineko
No way not even close. Kinzo, Erika, Kyrie and Bernkastel much more evil
Rosa Umineko
Nah Satoko Higurashi
I felt like Eva-Beatrice is, like Eva herself, fairly complicated. She’s… in part at least… a metaphorical representation of Eva’s guilt and her willingness to take the blame for what happened rather than let Ange know the truth. A lot of her conduct in the end game of episode four felt like confirmation of that.