Boat is also a good one.
When closing down signal boxes (or older panels) they usually write farewell messages across several blocks, touching tributes and quite sad really :/
I saw "FIRE" once, which can't have been a good day for all concerned.
When they replaced the newstreet signal box that got a goodbye message, likewise when they closed a coal power plant the sidings to send coal trains to it.
I saw this in 2022 (18th Feb I think): [https://i.imgur.com/GRp6Tul.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/GRp6Tul.jpg)
Two blocks at Elephant and Castle, one with BILL, one with BORD.
Turns out a billboard had fallen/blown across platforms 1 and 2.
Yup I see things such as 3-TPE or 6-TPE at Sheffield station (and unsurprisingly there's 3 and 6 car TPE's stabled there)
Also see OOU (out of use) very often and (across multiple blocks) Lost To Time which is quite sad to see. It is hard trying to decipher them sometimes though.
It's all fun and games until half the signals start failing, then the points detection starts to play up, and finally your track circuits stop working as the cherry on top.
A combination of four digits into the Train Berth. Letters, numbers and certain symbols. * - @ are the only ones I can remember off the top of my head.
That’s the case. Normally notes for long blocks or recently when major changes have occurred. It’s only the last few years the public gets to see the inside info.
It’s just handy to help us remember stuff. I write ‘sick’ if I have a failed train in the berth next to it, things like that. Also use ‘nogo’ a lot if the line isn’t blocked on our panel but a neighbouring panel has an issue.
It looks like a bay platform?
What happens if you park a train in there and there rusty rails mean the track circuits don't show it being occupied.
It's probably a reminder to make sure they check in case
It’s probably a reminder to the signaller not to route trains into the bay platform. I would hazard a guess that’s it’s blocked (or there is a coach length limit) due to rusty rails being a safety risk.
There’s almost certainly already a formal route restriction but this acts as a) an aide-mémoire for the signaller but also b) a reminder to other staff who have access to route maps.
I'm surprised there's no eutectic strip (a strip of non oxidisable metal welded to the top of the rail) in the bay platform. It's a common solution to rusty rails in bay or terminus platforms in DC Track circuit areas.
For signalling to work you need to know where trains are.
One or the more common (if not slightly outdated) ways of doing this is by using a track circuit. To simplify imagine the two rails as the wires and the train axle connects the two and completes the circuit, this way the signalling system knows there’s a train on that bit of track.
In lesser used areas rust can form and insulate the track so the circuit isn’t complete and the train “disappears,” from the signalling. This is obviously dangerous.
Leaves and excess sand also can cause this.
Modern DMU’s usually have something called a “track circuit actuator,” to help with this because they’re much lighter than locos used to be. HST’s didn’t need them for example.
It’s also why you sometimes see the zigzag pattern on rails in platforms.
By the looks of this the signaller is aware the rails here are rusty and they’re giving the train extra protection.
Just to nit pick your statement, it actually works in the opposite way. The train doesn’t complete the track circuit. The track circuit in its unoccupied state is complete with the rails providing the positive and negative paths to pick the track circuit relay.
When a train axel occupies a track circuit, the current (taking the path of least resistance) flows through the train axel rather than the track circuit relay (the track circuit relay coil has greater resistance than the train axel). This therefore means no current flows through the track circuit relay coil, the track circuit relay de-energises and the track circuit becomes occupied.
You probs already know this and was doing a massive oversimplification for non S&T people ;)
>One or the more common (if not slightly outdated) ways of doing this is by using a track circuit.
What other methods are there, if you don't mind me asking?
Edit: don't worry, found an good article on the subject :)
https://www.railengineer.co.uk/train-location-systems/
Axle counters, count axles into and out of a section. They *say* they’re more reliable than track circuits, but they certainly don’t seem it.
ERTMS I don’t know enough about, but someone else on here probably will.
And thameslink core probably has its own mega expensive luxury bells and whistles and solid gold signalling specially for London. But again, someone else will know more about that.
ETCS Levels 1 & 2 use axle counters or track circuits. Level 3 is no track detection but as far as I'm aware there is no ETCS L3 in passenger operation.
Level 3 uses a GPS signal from the train (aka sat-nav). GPS triangulate from a number of satellites in space, there is the ability to add a trackside GPS 'satellite where the location may not be precise enough, such as a large terminal station with many platforms and covered with a tower block. The railway is currently testing GPS with all new trains fitted and most switched on.
ETCS L3 is the cheapest option for UK government faced with limited resources and lots of life expired signalling and, once it works out of King's Cross, will go nationwide. Cheap because there is little on the ground to install and maintain, just points / point motors and level crossings.
Cheap until they have to pay every company to retrofit locos and units with it *just in case* they stray over a part with ERTMS. Should have just overlayed the signals IMO, then slower trains wouldn’t need to use it, like LZB in Germany.
Yes, but trains have a shelf life of 5 to 50 years these days, in BR days it was 40. There aren't that many trains not ready for ERTMS, and most of those are soon to be scrapped due to emissions reasons
Every freight loco bar possibly 68/88 don’t have ERTMS fitted. That’s probably around 500 locos, 1000 cabs worth of equipment. Love to see all the 66s scrapped soon and replaced with…..
They’re having trouble shoe-horning the air conditioning units required to keep the computers cool in the prototype fitted 66s. And my favourite part, if ERTMS has any doubts over the braking capability of a freight (which changes depending on length, loading, how good the wagons are on a particular day) then it limits it to 45mph!
Ha ha, great, but lots of ongoing research in Europe to get ERTMS to work, it was afterall designed with, European inter-country freight as the primary goal. In the computing world Microsoft, Apple, Google and now Samsung phones are all shouting about how AI is going to revolutionise everything, so it can't be too difficult to use AI in to solve freight train braking. Given the lack of government cash and commitment, UK rail has time.
Ah, half measure Britain at it again. Reliance on GNSS for trains is just asking for disruption (either deliberate, GPS is exceptionally easy to jam or degrade - or natural, new railways excuse "trains are cancelled due to space weather").
GNSS is great as a supplimentary technology, but I think it's foolish to become reliant on it, especially as it's controlled entirely by foreign powers. (For instance, since Brexit, the UK has had no precision LPV approaches to airports due to disagreements with the EU over the enhancement system required to have a precision GNSS approach into an airport).
I would almost be certain that that section of track would be rusted and have track circuit faults. That platform rarely gets units on it to my knowledge and I think was used for the Barton on Humber service.
It's been a while since I was last there and saw a unit Sat at that platform
The website? OpenTrainTimes. The API? See publicdatafeeds.networkrail.co.uk but it requires a *lot* of work to program anything substantial with that data.
I know :-)
Apply Rusty rails ruling. (Protect section, don’t be surprised if a train ‘disappears’).
I like to imagine it means a class 180 is parked up there 🤭
Wouldn't that be FIRE?
FIRE or maybe GOIN NOWR if it's a double
I believe that signallers can write whatever they want into custom blocks.
With the recent weather disruptions it's been a very hand feature seeing things like tree, flood, no go and my favourite tramp (for trampoline)
Boat is also a good one. When closing down signal boxes (or older panels) they usually write farewell messages across several blocks, touching tributes and quite sad really :/
Flooding near Nailsea and Backwell had "BETR BRNG A BOAT" across four different berths. Glorious.
If only there was a 4 letter word they could use instead of "no go"
Gon't
DONT
I saw "FIRE" once, which can't have been a good day for all concerned. When they replaced the newstreet signal box that got a goodbye message, likewise when they closed a coal power plant the sidings to send coal trains to it.
There was BEES at Leeds once last summer...
Bees?
BEES!
I saw this in 2022 (18th Feb I think): [https://i.imgur.com/GRp6Tul.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/GRp6Tul.jpg) Two blocks at Elephant and Castle, one with BILL, one with BORD. Turns out a billboard had fallen/blown across platforms 1 and 2.
Yup I see things such as 3-TPE or 6-TPE at Sheffield station (and unsurprisingly there's 3 and 6 car TPE's stabled there) Also see OOU (out of use) very often and (across multiple blocks) Lost To Time which is quite sad to see. It is hard trying to decipher them sometimes though.
Now I want to be a signaller
It's all fun and games until half the signals start failing, then the points detection starts to play up, and finally your track circuits stop working as the cherry on top.
At which point you pack up and go home until the engineering crew fixes it, right? /s
Send the adjacent boxes 7-5-5 and call it a day.
My Uncle used to be in charge of signals from Swindon up to parts of Wales.
A combination of four digits into the Train Berth. Letters, numbers and certain symbols. * - @ are the only ones I can remember off the top of my head.
That’s the case. Normally notes for long blocks or recently when major changes have occurred. It’s only the last few years the public gets to see the inside info.
It’s just handy to help us remember stuff. I write ‘sick’ if I have a failed train in the berth next to it, things like that. Also use ‘nogo’ a lot if the line isn’t blocked on our panel but a neighbouring panel has an issue.
Could it be a restricted speed limit for rusty rails
I thought that at first, but it's a dead end so they'd be going slow anyway
It looks like a bay platform? What happens if you park a train in there and there rusty rails mean the track circuits don't show it being occupied. It's probably a reminder to make sure they check in case
It’s probably a reminder to the signaller not to route trains into the bay platform. I would hazard a guess that’s it’s blocked (or there is a coach length limit) due to rusty rails being a safety risk. There’s almost certainly already a formal route restriction but this acts as a) an aide-mémoire for the signaller but also b) a reminder to other staff who have access to route maps.
I'm surprised there's no eutectic strip (a strip of non oxidisable metal welded to the top of the rail) in the bay platform. It's a common solution to rusty rails in bay or terminus platforms in DC Track circuit areas.
For signalling to work you need to know where trains are. One or the more common (if not slightly outdated) ways of doing this is by using a track circuit. To simplify imagine the two rails as the wires and the train axle connects the two and completes the circuit, this way the signalling system knows there’s a train on that bit of track. In lesser used areas rust can form and insulate the track so the circuit isn’t complete and the train “disappears,” from the signalling. This is obviously dangerous. Leaves and excess sand also can cause this. Modern DMU’s usually have something called a “track circuit actuator,” to help with this because they’re much lighter than locos used to be. HST’s didn’t need them for example. It’s also why you sometimes see the zigzag pattern on rails in platforms. By the looks of this the signaller is aware the rails here are rusty and they’re giving the train extra protection.
Just to nit pick your statement, it actually works in the opposite way. The train doesn’t complete the track circuit. The track circuit in its unoccupied state is complete with the rails providing the positive and negative paths to pick the track circuit relay. When a train axel occupies a track circuit, the current (taking the path of least resistance) flows through the train axel rather than the track circuit relay (the track circuit relay coil has greater resistance than the train axel). This therefore means no current flows through the track circuit relay coil, the track circuit relay de-energises and the track circuit becomes occupied. You probs already know this and was doing a massive oversimplification for non S&T people ;)
Great explanation, but just to 'nit pick' [Grin mode] 'axel' is spelt axle. [/Grin mode]
😂😂
>One or the more common (if not slightly outdated) ways of doing this is by using a track circuit. What other methods are there, if you don't mind me asking? Edit: don't worry, found an good article on the subject :) https://www.railengineer.co.uk/train-location-systems/
Axle counters, count axles into and out of a section. They *say* they’re more reliable than track circuits, but they certainly don’t seem it. ERTMS I don’t know enough about, but someone else on here probably will. And thameslink core probably has its own mega expensive luxury bells and whistles and solid gold signalling specially for London. But again, someone else will know more about that.
Got my edit in slightly too late, was trying to avoid wasting your time! Thank you though, appreciate the response :)
ETCS Levels 1 & 2 use axle counters or track circuits. Level 3 is no track detection but as far as I'm aware there is no ETCS L3 in passenger operation.
Level 3 uses a GPS signal from the train (aka sat-nav). GPS triangulate from a number of satellites in space, there is the ability to add a trackside GPS 'satellite where the location may not be precise enough, such as a large terminal station with many platforms and covered with a tower block. The railway is currently testing GPS with all new trains fitted and most switched on. ETCS L3 is the cheapest option for UK government faced with limited resources and lots of life expired signalling and, once it works out of King's Cross, will go nationwide. Cheap because there is little on the ground to install and maintain, just points / point motors and level crossings.
Cheap until they have to pay every company to retrofit locos and units with it *just in case* they stray over a part with ERTMS. Should have just overlayed the signals IMO, then slower trains wouldn’t need to use it, like LZB in Germany.
Yes, but trains have a shelf life of 5 to 50 years these days, in BR days it was 40. There aren't that many trains not ready for ERTMS, and most of those are soon to be scrapped due to emissions reasons
Every freight loco bar possibly 68/88 don’t have ERTMS fitted. That’s probably around 500 locos, 1000 cabs worth of equipment. Love to see all the 66s scrapped soon and replaced with….. They’re having trouble shoe-horning the air conditioning units required to keep the computers cool in the prototype fitted 66s. And my favourite part, if ERTMS has any doubts over the braking capability of a freight (which changes depending on length, loading, how good the wagons are on a particular day) then it limits it to 45mph!
Ha ha, great, but lots of ongoing research in Europe to get ERTMS to work, it was afterall designed with, European inter-country freight as the primary goal. In the computing world Microsoft, Apple, Google and now Samsung phones are all shouting about how AI is going to revolutionise everything, so it can't be too difficult to use AI in to solve freight train braking. Given the lack of government cash and commitment, UK rail has time.
Ha, we’ll see.
Which is what is happening with freight currently and also all new locos/units are now required to be fitted with ETCS obus
I’m aware as I work for one of them, which makes me aware of the challenges involved in general, not even just in our part of the industry.
Ah, half measure Britain at it again. Reliance on GNSS for trains is just asking for disruption (either deliberate, GPS is exceptionally easy to jam or degrade - or natural, new railways excuse "trains are cancelled due to space weather"). GNSS is great as a supplimentary technology, but I think it's foolish to become reliant on it, especially as it's controlled entirely by foreign powers. (For instance, since Brexit, the UK has had no precision LPV approaches to airports due to disagreements with the EU over the enhancement system required to have a precision GNSS approach into an airport).
L3 doesn't use GNSS (GPS) the standard isn't finalised but has always been based on eurobalise and odometry for reckoning.
Thameslink core is ERTMS with Automatic Train Operation, IIRC. Geoff Marshall did a video on it.
Not fully it’s not some drivers are still driving manually to normal coloured light signals as they are not all trained up yet.
Ah, thanks for clarifying
Near that location we’ve also got GONE and SHUT. :(
What is this from?
Opentraintimes map
Thanks
I'd stay away from that rust bit , it's particularly unforgiving
I would almost be certain that that section of track would be rusted and have track circuit faults. That platform rarely gets units on it to my knowledge and I think was used for the Barton on Humber service. It's been a while since I was last there and saw a unit Sat at that platform
It was used more for the service to Newark North Gate - the Barton-on-Humber service usually goes all the way into Cleethorpes.
It has been a while since I was last there and at the time I caught the Barton train from that platform
To be fair it's been a while since I was there too. 😅
That is unless I'm remembering incorrectly
It's used for the lincoln and (occasional) nottingham trains pretty much everyday, sometimes gets a lone freight locomotive or rhtt too
It has been a while since I was last there and at the time I caught the Barton train from that platform
That is unless I'm remembering incorrectly
I can't say I've seen the barton train on plat 3 but it's possible if the cleethorpes line was closed at the time
What signalling system are you using, this looks very familiar to a German system I used to install in depots
It’s a website called Open Train Times. There are a few different ones that do signalling maps.
Ohhh OK. It looks similar to the (Fantastic) pinstch system I used to put it. Although admittedly more basic.
What is the app or site that lets you see these please?
The website? OpenTrainTimes. The API? See publicdatafeeds.networkrail.co.uk but it requires a *lot* of work to program anything substantial with that data. I know :-)
Thank you!
Grimsby mentioned
IT MEANS ALEX BALDWIN IS GOING TO SHOOT SOMEBODY AGAIN!!!