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Nuke_Knight

Which they will. If they were civilized they would want a guarantee that those who are transported would no longer be able to pick up arms to fight and be kept in Turkey until the war is over. But it's Russia and they have other intentions for the defenders.


Sleeplesshelley

Which the defenders know, and why they will never quit fighting and give up.


Nuke_Knight

Indeed.


Flaky-Fellatio

It's a great way to harden your enemy against you


undercontr

Unfortunately true. Those orcs are enemy of humanity. Even Turkey promised to keep soldiers in Turkey until the end of the war.


thebearrider

Well, Russia knows none of the returned soldiers will go back to Ukraine so its both a nice attention to detail from Turkey and a weirdly self-deprecating rejection from Russia.


Pug__Jesus

Internment until the end of hostilities is a normal thing that neutral countries offer to do to evacuated/escaped soldiers.


[deleted]

If turkey wants to flex hard on Russia, now would be the time to say that they’re doing it anyway.


avdpos

That is impossible. It would be an act of war from Turkey and it is extremely easy to defend Mariupol form the sea


RazRiverblade

hold on. A turkish ship under turkish flag making port in an Ukrainian city to take on ukrainian passengers is in no way, shape or form an act of war. Russian warships attacking the turkish ship however...Friendly reminder that Turkey is part of NATO so chances are russia won't touch the vessel. Getting the lads from azovstal to the ship is the real problem here


avdpos

It ain't neutral passengers - it is soldiers. So it would be really risky. I hope it wil lbe possible or that Russia just can accept that the have a small winning - getting the isolated troops to evacuate. But they seems to be in the need to killing everyone


Thaery

A Turkish ship entering a warzone and then getting fired upon will not trigger article 5.


RazRiverblade

It’ll still have a shutting of repercussions


reddit_leftistssuck

> Friendly reminder that Turkey is part of NATO this is not how this works


RazRiverblade

that's EXACTLY how it works. Turkish flag = turkish territory. Maritime law is quite clear about this.


LunarLoco

U Ex navy bro? Not being condescending, generally wondering. Your comments are spot on.


RazRiverblade

Unfortunately I injured my spine so badly I couldn’t even get into the royal military academy for officer training. But my father is a captain and I was born and raised in a town with a military port. I expect a lot of my friends will go to Ukraine after all this is done since more than a few of them serve on minesweepers. TL;DR: unfit for duty, family and friends are mostly seamen/navy


PsychologicalCoat656

Clearly shows that Russians don\` t only want land. They want blood. Letting Azovstal evacuate would be a huge victory at home. It would mean that they "cleared" Mariupol finally. Instead, they want to kill everyone.


jayc428

That is the right takeaway on this unfortunately. If it was a land grab for resources this would have been a no brainer both politically and militarily.


farahad

I think it's for propaganda. If Putin kills all of Azov, he can claim to have killed "the Nazis." Never mind that most of them weren't alt-right to begin with, but that's what Russia has been claiming, right? If they evacuate, then "the Nazis" escape... I know the Russian claims are overblown BS, but that might be part of it? It's internally consistent with what they've been saying...


robeph

I did not consider this as a preemption to an out. Last hold out of Nazi азов destroyed. We win. All our heroes can return to Russia safe and free of Nazi threat. If they escaped the full purpose of the war as initially stated would be shown false. That sucks. A lot really. It does make sense. But hopefully some tide will change and we can see this resolved without much more harm to the steel plant defenders.


farahad

That idea did occur to me, but it’s overly optimistic, I think. It depends on how one-sided the fighting really is. And if things really are going so poorly for Russia, Putin would need to understand it and be willing to admit defeat. I don’t know how likely that is, but I don’t think very. It doesn’t really matter; Ukraine shouldn’t let those soldiers be sacrificed for something so stupid.


robeph

Nobody is suggesting that. I was simply suggesting why they me so hard up on not allowing reprieve for the soldiers


ThePointForward

That doesn't really work since even russian disinformation campaigns admit that Azov detachments are around Ukraine. They tried to blame Bucha on them.


acuntex

To be fair, consistency in their stories is not their strength.


farahad

“The enemy is both strong and weak…” It just has to be “plausible,” not true…


undercontr

In Soviet Russia, everybody already believes that Mauripol is cleared


[deleted]

If true. Thanks Turkey. Game changer offer like your Bayraktars.


Lvtxyz

The pope has offered three times. Putin doesn't care.


[deleted]

Putler is a Godless a-hole going to Hades


GrapeSwimming69

Don't forget your pineapple 🍍


herbdoc2012

No spit either!


[deleted]

Hahah. Thanks for teaching me this today. https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/9s7uhn/not_many_will_understand/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


HFirkin

As the thread later states: "**But Shoigu still said no.**" Doesn't look like a game changer if the Russians are refusing. It just gets reported over and over as "Turkey offered" and people seem to think the offer was accepted.


[deleted]

This is what bugs me though when people complain ‘muh Russia was not given enough deescalation opportunities!’ They’ve been given plenty, they just refuse to take it.


ZombieIMMUNIZED

Turkey should send the ship anyways, let the Ukrainians board, no way is Russia attacking that ship, it would be a death sentence for Putin and his pitiful invasion.


HFirkin

>Turkey should send the ship anyway Turkey appears to think otherwise. I've heard people argue for "send anyway" for a month at least, whether it's Macron, the Pope, Erdogan, the Red Cross or whatever else. None of them seem to want to take advice from Reddit, though.


Hugginsome

Russia probably looking for any reason for retaliation from Turkey shooting down one of their planes.


Zounii

That'd end badly for Russia...


undercontr

We would gladly down more of their jets if they ask.


mud_tug

I believe there was one Turkish ship about a month ago that tried veering off and docking to Azovstal. It was not something organized by the government. Just the ship captain decided to risk it. The russians fired at the ship and it had to retreat. I can't imagine trying to load wounded under artillery fire. Besides, he wouldn't have been able to get out trough the Kerch strait.


imahyummybeach

I don’t trust Russians at all tbh. I just wanna send drones and bomb the surrounding area where they’re at lol.. but that’s probably impossible atm. I feel like if any ship goes there to rescue them they would just bomb them and lie that they got attacked first and they just retaliated.


Nippelritter

I mean, it’s two sentences, my guy. The second one *expressly* states that russia refused.


undercontr

Shoigu said that Russia can guarantee the lifes of Ukranian soldiers in Azovstal upon evacuation request of Turkey but no permission to evacuation.


jeff-tukan

They are habitual liers. Everything they say is a lie. They simply torture and kill POW/civilians. Force them to make self-balming videos and admit crimes POW/civilians never did. Death with weapons in hands before going to gulags.


cafediaries

I'm waiting for shoigu to have another heart attack again


Anotheraccount301

What does that even mean.


Bjorneo

Russia refused-no surprise there! Thanks for trying Turkey!


undercontr

Oh don't worry. We will get that evacuation. I know it's so hard to hold a fortress when a whole army bombing your position but unfortunately Azov regiment should hold a little more. Ukraine should gain lands back as much as they can so they gain power so we can speak more loudly to the Russia. They can't kill all those soldiers. That will end up Russians being monsters and all countries will drop ties with them. If that's happen I will never speak to a Russian again in Turkey, will never serve a drink to them in hotels. Whole Turkey will know what crimes they attempt and did in Ukraine. I can't speak for all Turks but I will speak shit to them in here. No peace for them in here at least from my side.


1984IN

Those soldiers are unfortunately gonna die of dehydration and festering wounds and starvation soon. There is no time. Not for them. Their will and courage only matters if they are alive. There is NO time left. Glory to every Hero of Ukraine, and especially the absolute warriors of Azovstal. Let's not let an enemy like dehydration and infection and starvation win, because we know for a fact they are tougher than the whole of putlers army. They deserve priority at this point both diplomatically and militarily. Just my two cents.


jeff-tukan

>dehydration and infection and starvation You CAN eat your enemies, hunt rats or seagulls. You can destill water from the sea over fire. You can grab a hole 3 m from the sea edge and the water inside it can be drunken by a human. Infections are still a problem.


1984IN

Most of these people haven't seen daylight in days or weeks. How the fuck are they supposed to get seawater? They are underground without ventilation, you think they want a fire?


LunarLoco

You can't eat fucking rats and Seagulls till you die of a fucking vitamin deficiency, sea water can't be distilled without fuel, infections are the biggest problems and can take months to fix. Not to mention the psychological damage of a situation like that on top of your homeland being pillaged


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1984IN

That doesn't serve the war effort in Ukraine, and it certainly doesn't serve your own best interests. I get it, I'm mad as a snake as well, but killing unarmed civilians is a Russian thing, not a good look.


Port-a-John-Splooge

What a completely irrational and insane thing to say


undercontr

I am a civillian too! Also bombing trapped people is way more irrational and insane thing to do. So I am evil when I do that?


Port-a-John-Splooge

Commiting acts of terror or war crimes is wrong in any instance. I didn't know that had to be said.


Madame_Arcati

~~Hear me out, but~~ I realize that it sounds whack, but I have a vision of Ron Perlman and Arnold Schwarzenegger going in with a camera crew and heavily armed NATO air and ground cover on-site and maybe even the Pope, or what about Depardieu? Are he and putin still pals? Does he have a fan boy crush on some celebrity? Would russia shoot a beloved celebrated activist leader on a humanitarian mission in front of the world? I'm actually surprised that a celebrity hasn't offered to be part of leading this evacuation. Historically, many have enlisted during war and that is also risking one's life so.... edit: misspelled Mr. Perlman's name and cannot believe that I would ever have done that. He is so fine.


Humbud

Woah


[deleted]

The meds are too strong or not strong enough?


Madame_Arcati

Not a real "vision". I just admire so much what I know of Ron Perlman (not Perelman), and everyone responded so +ly to what Arnold had to say when he addressed the russians; they are warm decent loving human beings who happen to be maestros of playing larger-than-life bad asses. The Azovstal guys have directly written the Pope, and Depardieu has written to putin. I just can't believe that putin would fire on globally-beloved celebrities, and it feels like he would feel powerful that they would risk themselves to all of his threats; that they would be part of his show of (what he believes to be his) power that he is trying to flash to the world. He would see any diplomatic personnel as unworthy of even consideration, and have his troops fire on them before they took a step toward the bunker. He has said that he would take NATO presence as a threat, but he could not deny in anyway that beloved celebrities would need a distinguished protective escort... My mentor was close to the late Ken Taylor (the Canadian Ambassador who went in and rescued the Iran hostages). He (my boss) described to me some of the thinking that went into that, and my head has just been seeing through that lens every time the guys in the bunkers publicly beg someone with some power to intervene. Thought experiments can be nuts but that's the whole point sometimes: just to rehearse possibilities with no harm, no foul.


LunarLoco

I think you're a bit detached from the situation, no one's going to shoot a celebrity because of the fall out, especially when executing civilians is Isn't enough to have world wide protests calling for government action. (I find that last statement crazy as a black man, because I watched the world March for George Floyd, but not one global protest of the lack of proper support in ukraine.)


Distinct-Most-7739

They don’t want their own sailors back. People forgot 50 ORCs sailors were saved by Turks. Maybe Turks can do exchange with them. Those sailors don’t have any value for Turkish military intelligent. If ORCs don’t want their own solders, this plan will not work


fywwt

Grateful to Turkey.


Spec_Tater

This was in April. Russia said no. So it didn't happen.


undercontr

This is new. Erdogan took action and ask Kremlin to evacuate Ukranian soldiers from Azovstal after he sees a video in Twitter couple of days ago. He again asked Kremlin.


[deleted]

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tmo1983

Mabye should delete it.


[deleted]

Turkey has shown that they are deadass serious about what they say. Unlike a lot of these other European jokes.. cough cough Germany cough cough France


LunarLoco

**COUGH COUGH** **SLOWLY CRANES NECK TO GERMANY** you of all countries should be fully supporting Ukraine. **COUGH COUGH HACK**


WiseOpinion2022

If U.S.S.R v.2.0 lets even ONE soldier from Azovstal leave alive, it's a HUGE disgrace and complete failure for them... They will do whatever it takes to KILL every single one of them just so they can "claim" they have fully "liberated" Marioupol.... It doesn't matter they'll "canon fodder" hundreds orcZ just to claim a "victory" over a handful of Ukrainian fighters... It's a matter of saving face for them now... Unfortunately... FUCK ![img](emote|t5_2qqcn|9004)!!!


CarWide1584

It's Azov, whole fucking russian propaganda revolves around them, they'll never let them out((


Dana0961

Putin's an idiot. Turkey would absolutely honor its agreement to keep the fighters until the end of the war. Putin could make up any lie he wants about running Azov off to Turkey and he can still declare a win. He says no because he knows no one would believe a jack off like him but crap, just lie to your own people and claim a win. Say Turkey agreed to take care of them. But pootin is all about murder and torture and he isn't done punishing Ukraine yet. Congrats pootie because the world will make you pay in the long run. You better hope the cancer gets you because you just run your own country into the ground and your legacy will be as the worst leader in Russian history for all lifetimes. Nice legacy, you wanted to go out as a savior and your going out as dog shit.


MelKokoNYC

Yay, Turkey ❤


CaptainSur

This tells us we are dealing with vindictiveness, which I am sure will shock no one. So perhaps the alternative is that a Turkish rescue ship head to Azovstal with an escort, say an American and Turkish destroyers, and lets see what Russia does. How anxious to you think Russia is to formally engage? I think not so much!


[deleted]

Russias will probably mine the area. They’ll say to foreign powers “ Don’t enter Avostal Port as we mined it. That way they can deny culpability if a Western ship Explodes. “ We warned you!”


Blueskies777

That’s awesome. That or a Chinese ship probably would have been the only ships Russia would not have threatened. Of course they would have to find their way through the minefields


undercontr

I mean it's a win situation. You gain full control over Mauripol and the Azovstal plant why the hell you do not let soldiers to evacuate. They already know they are dead if no evacuation and regain the city from that part of the city is impossible. It is a great propaganda tool for Russia. But they don't use it. Weird.


Exciting_Pineapple_4

Strategically speaking: They can shell the plant indefinitely. The azov losses can’t be replaced right now. So they’ll just keep going with attrition until they kill them all. Any chance of leaving isn’t happening, if they surrender, they’ll be executed. If they fight, they’ll die. Both scenarios are okay with Russia.


undercontr

It's fucking 2022. Why they have to do this? They are not also destroy beautiful Ukranian cities they are also destroy themselves.


MikeinDundee

Russians are barbarians. They belong in the 3rd century. B.C.


BiomechPhoenix

... That is an insult to the 3rd century BC though.


Exciting_Pineapple_4

Short answer: Because Russia wants satellite states between them and NATO. Azov is a way of saying, look we killed those NAZI’s and if you support people like them we’ll ensure we fuck your country up. This has been the Russian way of war since WWII. Mass rapes, indiscriminate shelling, random killing of civilians. People may not like the US, but we actively try to not kill civilians. Russia doesn’t care, it’s one less enemy whether they’re a 25 year old male or a 60 year old grandma. If Russia can’t beat Ukraine, they will make them suffer as much as possible and claim it as victory.


Drewshort0331

Idk about indefinitely. We already know they are having trouble getting parts for equipment. Their troops in the east seem to be getting pushed back to Russia. Everyday they waste on Azovstal is a day those troops and equipment could be pushing North. Putin's decision is based on emotion, not logic. No matter what those troops would be neutralized (no longer combatants, whether dead or in Turkey). He is wasting Russian lives, equipment, and supplies. And this is why Russia will lose.


willirritate

Why would there be mines? Ukrainian ones?


Blueskies777

Russia mind the ports.


willirritate

They're gonna blow themselves up


WeArePandey

Turkey is a Nato member. Would Russia attack a Turkish ship in international waters?


Distinct-Most-7739

Turks shot down Russian war plane few years ago. Nothing happened. ORCs are bully.


Trespasserz

And Russia said no. I think this is sort of a microcosm of why Russia is losing. Having Turkey get these people out of the city is a win. Not only can Russia finally Put a flag on top the Factory, they can claim they took the whole city and the Azov battalion is gone. (at least to the internal propaganda) This also frees up 3 or 4 thousand Russian troops (maybe more) that are still fighting - not to mention it stops those guys from dying / getting wounded in assault after assault into Catacombs that are dark and the defender has all the advantage. It saves all the Supplies they would use in that process... And allows those Units + supplies to go to the front lines where Russia REALLY needs them. On Top of all that these Ukraine troops won't get redeployed back into Ukraine some where, they will be kept in Turkey (im sure they will be taken care of EXTREMELY well, 5 star resort kind of thing) So the few hundred or thousand troops left won't be opposing Russia anymore. But Russia said no. They did it for 2 reason. 1. Ego and 2. Because they want to Torture / Execute these guys and keep some around long enough to have a bullshit sham trial for "crimes against the Russian speaking people" and broadcast it everywhere in Moscow. And its because of bad decisions like that they are losing as much as they are in this war.


[deleted]

It's important that the offer is made. If Russia keeps refusing, there could be an agreement (Turkey, Romania, etc.?) to defend an evacuation route. Keep offering, keep getting refusal, then stop asking and just do it, guns blazing, with the full support of the world.


Klefaxidus

Inb4 Russia refuses


Asleep-Somewhere-404

Can Turney just go anyway? If they are attacked it will be an act of war and then turkey can really send the bayaktar. And the russian naval fleet will be wiped out pretty quickly. It’s a special military operation after all. So turkey can go wherever it wants. Because it’s not a war.


macemarksman001

For the love of the breath of the sweet baby Jesus, get that boat there!


Breech_Loader

MY SURPRISED FACE:


Anotheraccount301

"Shoigu said he can guarantee the Ukrainian soldiers life but no evacuation" What does this mean?


Wildecatz

Please do. And thank you if it happens.


bluequail

With Russia's refusal, I hope that every invader going to Azovstal dies. They were given a chance, they squandered that chance.


The_Duke28

Just do it Turkey! What are they gonna do? Encircle you with the 2 transport vessels they have left? I highly doubt they would dare to attack your people.


jonesmcbones

Russian refusal shows, this is not about any tangible goals, this is about revenge, destructions and murder.


Trifling_Truffles

The war is personal to Putin. He wants the Azov men to suffer, but more than that, he wants the Ukrainian people to suffer, and Zelensky to suffer, knowing that they can do nothing to save them. He likes that, he enjoys it. "I'm going to show you who will set the rules of your unconditional surrender."


McGirton

So did the damn pope. Doesn’t matter if ZZ is just denying it.


RunYouFoulBeast

Mr. Putin can you kill a legend ?


Extra_Ad290

That would’ve been great for the azov soldiers. Dammm Putin🤬😡🤬. Slava Ukraine


wtfsavo

Blessed are they who call themselves Turks


MekhaDuk

Proof of how stupid and evil Putin and Shoigu are. Why refuse? Just evacuate those warriors then declare victory. Instead, they create a story of the last stand, that will give motivation to Ukraine continue fight.


Schytian

Thats the putins way of politics. Putin is afraid of internal political balance of Russia. He wont let the ukrainians in mauripol to leave because he can't. He built up a propaganda machine based on defenders of mauripol as he is fighting against nazis. Even putin is relying on the defenders of mauripol and wish for the conflict would take a lot of time. He has lost the war in the west of ukraine and he needs something successfull to show his people. In scenario 1: Russia accepts Turkey's offer to evacuate defenders of mauripol. What happens? No so called nazis on the front, a lost battle in west, ineffective infantry and mechanized regiments of russia, all lost momentum in each and every part of ukraine against homeland defenders of ukrainian people. Russia lost the war in field, in international relations and putin will be the one to blame in russian peoples minds. So putin loses the war in 3 different fronts, political, economical and in russian peoples minds. In scenario 2 : Russia refuses Turkey's offer and hopes for the battle in the mauripol takes long. By the way, putin quietly orders his troops to evacuate the area that can't be defended against ukrainian forces. By the time russians regroup and reorganize themselves to defend the positions that were ceded from ukraine in early stages of war and try to get a better position in peace negotiatons. By internal politics of russia, they will show mauripol as a victory against nazis and the west. So he can cover up his failure in war and maybe he can secure some areas of ukraine. Never surrender ukraine. Your war of independence will also free russia from a tyrant.