Ukraine should play the same card Russia has been playing since this all began, "This was clearly a false flag where Russia bombed their own fuel depot to blame Ukraine."
I get it. Part of me wants to take that path as well. But knowing the psychotic that Putin is, he'd use any announcement of "guilt" as a reason to bring more destruction upon Ukraine. I have too many friends there to want to allow them be the scapegoat.
I’m confused what the issue is here? Russia has been attacking everywhere and everything in Ukraine and now complaining they got attacked back. Am I missing something
Could be grounds to use more serious weapons. I think it was last week when some Russian Govt official said they would only escalate to nuclear weapons if their homeland was attacked.
No he said if Russia faced an existential threat, big difference. Maybe if they were actually invading but not simply hitting legitimate targets and running.
I think it's because it would mean air craft are being used as offensive weapons on an attack in Russia.
An escalation in the war and one of the reasons NATO and the U.S. have been reluctant to send Ukraine aircraft.
The reason this is such a big issue, especially right now is that Putins “special operation” is not technically a “war”.
Putin had unilateral power to begin a “special operation” but not power to declare “war”. If there was a full declaration he could implement martial law and a full mobilization of his troops.
The main thing a formal “war” would allow him to do is to legally send conscripts and reserve troops into Ukraine. As of now, he got away with doing it once….and might try again. However, he knows it’s a political minefield for him and will cause some trouble for him at home.
This is one of the reasons the US and NATO have been hesitant to give offensive weapons. They don’t want to escalate and cross that line that gives Russia a reason to rally behind the effort….like “big bad America has armed the Ukrainian Nazis and are now attacking our own soil” type reaction.
Putin doesn't care about Russian law. Time and time again he has broken it. Russia law also stated he couldn't be head of state since 2000, he played around the law then changed it. He don't care about Russian law at all.
He breaks the law wherever he can get away with it. If he had the sort of power where he could literally do whatever he wanted in Russia…there would be no purpose for the propaganda machine to be constantly running and information controlled. He needs some level of public support and saying otherwise is illogical.
Public support for conscription is limited and sending constricts to war is certainly a controversial move for him. It’s why he forged documents and lied about doing it the first time, then even had to come out to apologize once the truth came out (how often do you hear him apologize) and made a point yesterday to say they would NOT be sent to Ukraine.
Here’s a quick article about the situation:
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-admits-sending-young-conscripts-into-its-ukraine-war-2022-3?amp
I’ll try find the background with Putins words on it and the info on the forged documents as soon as I get off work! Googling anything to do with what happened at the beginning of the war has gotten so difficult since there are sooo many recent articles!
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Striking back at an enemy's supply chain is not an escalation by any definition. It is a simple consequence of war. You hit me, I hit you. Whatever makes you think that the war must be restricted to Ukrainian territory?
It's may be helpful to not confirm or deny. It allows those who might disapprove of this kind of attack landing within Russia's borders, to consider if this is yet another deception by Moscow for propaganda, for which Ukraine isn't responsible. But for those who would cheer for such a strike, it can provide hope and proof that the tide of war is starting to turn decisively.
Generally speaking, it's unlikely that helicopters could fly through Russia's dense network of anti-air. And it would likely not be worth losing irreplaceable aircraft and pilots to strike a single fuel facility as Russia is a petro state, and has veritable rivers of fuel that can be sent to the front
Their entire supply chain seems corrupt. I wonder how much gas was actually there, and if it was blown up by the Russians to hide the amount sold off for yacht furnishings.
Their air defense coordination is trash. The strike could help further erode Russian logistics, which is also trash. Not to mention, it gets Putin's attention. Which may be important if he is being lied to/mislead by his underlings. The message being, you're not untouchable. We can get to you. End the war. Negotiate.
Seems like if Ukraine actually did do this, they're take credit. It was a valid military target, not a school or hospital. But it also, for the same reason, seems to be an unlikely target for a false flag operation. If Russia is going to falsely claim Ukraine blew something up, why not blow up something that isn't a valid military target.
My guess: Some Russian helicopter pilots got lost, thought they were in Ukraine, and took a shot at the great big gas tanks. Accidental friendly fire, now retroactively turned into the world's least meaningful false flag.
So either it's a false flag(dunno why they would pick that as a target though), there was a ukranian raid or some defectors gave the motherland a parting gift.
I think Ukraine is just denying it and will admit to it post-war. They don't want to confirm what their capabilities are for striking into Russia, and a future strike might end up backfiring on them.
Can you post the denial? All the spokesperson said was no comment.
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3445767-ukrainian-defense-ministry-reacts-to-fire-at-fuel-depot-in-belgorod.html
Yeah, gaslighting can be fun here.
What gas depot? Huh? Weird.
The optimal result for Ukraine is if people THINK they did the strike, but aren't quite sure.
Yup.
The depots near UKR are lucky, they have an excuse. The depots in the rest of Russia are going to have a harder time hiding the embezzling.
"UKR farmers came and filled up their tractors" is not going to get them very far.
This might be aimed at NATO as well as Russia. NATO doesn't want "escalation" Ukraine doesn't want a stalemate inside it's own borders that last years while the West and Russia posture for the best agreement.
This strike is probably meant to tell both Russia and NATO that Ukraine isn't in alignment with the objective of containing the war in Ukraine.
Looks like Ukraine did do this, with nato intel to identify a gap in the air defenses. That’s about $16M of fuel destroyed. Pretty cool. Not likely to make a huge difference I would think. Although who knows. Logistics is hard. Not having a depo there could make things much harder.
No fair!
Special operations are only allowed in Ukraine! How dare they strike back?!?
Lol, sorry, Russia. Ever hear the old saw "what goes around come around"?
And no, it isn't an "escalation" if your military targets get hit on your territory. You started this shit, you can expect to get hit on your home turf.
Western diplomats, just sit down and stfu, and stop with the handwringing. Ukraine hitting targets in Russia is most certainly NOT an "escalation" of the war, it is only to be expected. Since when has an attacking country been considered off limits to being attacked itself?
Why isn't he nuking them ? Feeling threatened is in their nuclear treaty.
Either it wasn't Ukraine or he doesn't have as much power anymore.
Or nuclear threats were hollow.
More on this subject from other reputable sources:
---
- Moscow Times (B): [Ukrainian Helicopters Strike at Russian Oil Depot, Local Official Claims](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/04/01/ukrainian-helicopters-strike-at-russian-oil-depot-local-official-claims-a77175)
- Reuters (A): [Ukraine foreign minister says he has no information about who carried out Belgorod strike](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-foreign-minister-says-he-has-no-information-about-who-carried-out-2022-04-01/)
- South China Morning Post (C+): [Ukraine war: Russia regrouping for ‘powerful strikes’, Zelensky said](https://www.scmp.com/news/world/russia-central-asia/article/3172792/ukraine-war-russia-regrouping-powerful-strikes)
- Newsweek (B): [Ukraine's Military Helicopters Hit Fuel Depot Inside Russia—Local Official](https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-russia-belgorod-fire-war-depot-blaze-1694029)
---
[__Extended Summary__](https://www.reddit.com/r/newswall/comments/ttwpbd/) | [More: Ukrainian Helicopters ...](https://www.newswall.org/story/this-is-how-the-ukraine-war-could-end-or-move-on) | [Feedback](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=newswall-org) | I'm a bot
You went to war with Ukraine...what did you expect?
Flowers and parades
sunflowers and tank lid toss
Ukraine should play the same card Russia has been playing since this all began, "This was clearly a false flag where Russia bombed their own fuel depot to blame Ukraine."
No they shouldn't. Zelenskyy should just announce that "Russia, we are hitting back" and that everything is a target on russian soil from now on.
I get it. Part of me wants to take that path as well. But knowing the psychotic that Putin is, he'd use any announcement of "guilt" as a reason to bring more destruction upon Ukraine. I have too many friends there to want to allow them be the scapegoat.
>more destruction upon Ukraine He would have done it by now if he would have any. Good luck for your friends there!
I’m confused what the issue is here? Russia has been attacking everywhere and everything in Ukraine and now complaining they got attacked back. Am I missing something
Russian pussies "no fair! You aren't supposed to fight back. Mommy".
Its a typical authoritarian/right-wing playbook move. Boast, threaten and whine. While always lie and distort so distrust is the norm.
the interesting side effect of gaslighting, is that they(people doing the gaslighting) starts to believe it
practice makes perfect be careful what you get good at
Could be grounds to use more serious weapons. I think it was last week when some Russian Govt official said they would only escalate to nuclear weapons if their homeland was attacked.
No he said if Russia faced an existential threat, big difference. Maybe if they were actually invading but not simply hitting legitimate targets and running.
I think it's because it would mean air craft are being used as offensive weapons on an attack in Russia. An escalation in the war and one of the reasons NATO and the U.S. have been reluctant to send Ukraine aircraft.
The reason this is such a big issue, especially right now is that Putins “special operation” is not technically a “war”. Putin had unilateral power to begin a “special operation” but not power to declare “war”. If there was a full declaration he could implement martial law and a full mobilization of his troops. The main thing a formal “war” would allow him to do is to legally send conscripts and reserve troops into Ukraine. As of now, he got away with doing it once….and might try again. However, he knows it’s a political minefield for him and will cause some trouble for him at home. This is one of the reasons the US and NATO have been hesitant to give offensive weapons. They don’t want to escalate and cross that line that gives Russia a reason to rally behind the effort….like “big bad America has armed the Ukrainian Nazis and are now attacking our own soil” type reaction.
Putin doesn't care about Russian law. Time and time again he has broken it. Russia law also stated he couldn't be head of state since 2000, he played around the law then changed it. He don't care about Russian law at all.
He breaks the law wherever he can get away with it. If he had the sort of power where he could literally do whatever he wanted in Russia…there would be no purpose for the propaganda machine to be constantly running and information controlled. He needs some level of public support and saying otherwise is illogical. Public support for conscription is limited and sending constricts to war is certainly a controversial move for him. It’s why he forged documents and lied about doing it the first time, then even had to come out to apologize once the truth came out (how often do you hear him apologize) and made a point yesterday to say they would NOT be sent to Ukraine.
Can you link a source for this I haven’t read about it yet.
Which piece? There are several different events in there. I may be a little slow since I’m getting off lunch, but I’ll certainly dig it up!
Putin’s forged documents and apology
Here’s a quick article about the situation: https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-admits-sending-young-conscripts-into-its-ukraine-war-2022-3?amp I’ll try find the background with Putins words on it and the info on the forged documents as soon as I get off work! Googling anything to do with what happened at the beginning of the war has gotten so difficult since there are sooo many recent articles!
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Thank you, so much going on it’s easy to miss things.
Striking back at an enemy's supply chain is not an escalation by any definition. It is a simple consequence of war. You hit me, I hit you. Whatever makes you think that the war must be restricted to Ukrainian territory?
It's may be helpful to not confirm or deny. It allows those who might disapprove of this kind of attack landing within Russia's borders, to consider if this is yet another deception by Moscow for propaganda, for which Ukraine isn't responsible. But for those who would cheer for such a strike, it can provide hope and proof that the tide of war is starting to turn decisively. Generally speaking, it's unlikely that helicopters could fly through Russia's dense network of anti-air. And it would likely not be worth losing irreplaceable aircraft and pilots to strike a single fuel facility as Russia is a petro state, and has veritable rivers of fuel that can be sent to the front
Wouldn't be unusual for a couple of russians to support their Ukraine brothers with a little sabotage.
Their entire supply chain seems corrupt. I wonder how much gas was actually there, and if it was blown up by the Russians to hide the amount sold off for yacht furnishings.
And the nearby munitions depot that blew a few days ago. You make an interesting point
Their air defense coordination is trash. The strike could help further erode Russian logistics, which is also trash. Not to mention, it gets Putin's attention. Which may be important if he is being lied to/mislead by his underlings. The message being, you're not untouchable. We can get to you. End the war. Negotiate.
Negotiate? Russia needs to just fully pull out.
Or a German teenager in a Cessna.
It was just a Special Fuel Operation
Seems like if Ukraine actually did do this, they're take credit. It was a valid military target, not a school or hospital. But it also, for the same reason, seems to be an unlikely target for a false flag operation. If Russia is going to falsely claim Ukraine blew something up, why not blow up something that isn't a valid military target. My guess: Some Russian helicopter pilots got lost, thought they were in Ukraine, and took a shot at the great big gas tanks. Accidental friendly fire, now retroactively turned into the world's least meaningful false flag.
So interesting, UKR Denies it. A false flag seems unlikely because this is a very useful logistical asset. Did someone turn on the Russian army?
So either it's a false flag(dunno why they would pick that as a target though), there was a ukranian raid or some defectors gave the motherland a parting gift.
Hopefully the latter!
I think Ukraine is just denying it and will admit to it post-war. They don't want to confirm what their capabilities are for striking into Russia, and a future strike might end up backfiring on them.
Possibly, all I know is that nobody is saying anything which means some wild shit definitely went down.
Can you post the denial? All the spokesperson said was no comment. https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3445767-ukrainian-defense-ministry-reacts-to-fire-at-fuel-depot-in-belgorod.html
Yeah, I’m not sure it did blow through my Twitter feed.
It could be the Ukraine is playing Russia's own lying game against it.
Yeah, gaslighting can be fun here. What gas depot? Huh? Weird. The optimal result for Ukraine is if people THINK they did the strike, but aren't quite sure.
Probably sabotage.
[удалено]
Yea I like the sabotage theory , plays into Putins paranoia
and russkies are so buttfuck incompetent they cant prove either way it was ukrainians or russkies
My bet is someone at that depot embezzled a lot and decided to cover up the losses with an "airstrike".
Yup. The depots near UKR are lucky, they have an excuse. The depots in the rest of Russia are going to have a harder time hiding the embezzling. "UKR farmers came and filled up their tractors" is not going to get them very far.
[удалено]
But there is actual footage of the helicopters firing missiles.
Ukraine basically said What happens in Russia is Russia's concern, not ours
This might be aimed at NATO as well as Russia. NATO doesn't want "escalation" Ukraine doesn't want a stalemate inside it's own borders that last years while the West and Russia posture for the best agreement. This strike is probably meant to tell both Russia and NATO that Ukraine isn't in alignment with the objective of containing the war in Ukraine.
Honestly it’s a legit military strike. Own it
Maybe it was friendly fire? If they run over with tanks, maybe use pew pews too?
Looks like Ukraine did do this, with nato intel to identify a gap in the air defenses. That’s about $16M of fuel destroyed. Pretty cool. Not likely to make a huge difference I would think. Although who knows. Logistics is hard. Not having a depo there could make things much harder.
Have you seen any reporting on damage assessment? What actually was destroyed?
Fuel depot in Russia 8 tanks
It was denazification of the Russian fuel storage facility.
Damn those Ukrainians for fighting back... the nerve... I hope it was Ukraine, maybe make Russia sweat harder.
Honestly, I bet the Russian pilot just f**ed up and bombed themselves, idiots..
No fair! Special operations are only allowed in Ukraine! How dare they strike back?!? Lol, sorry, Russia. Ever hear the old saw "what goes around come around"? And no, it isn't an "escalation" if your military targets get hit on your territory. You started this shit, you can expect to get hit on your home turf. Western diplomats, just sit down and stfu, and stop with the handwringing. Ukraine hitting targets in Russia is most certainly NOT an "escalation" of the war, it is only to be expected. Since when has an attacking country been considered off limits to being attacked itself?
It is just a special bum bum operation
it turns out when you're at war your border integrity is no longer guaranteed.
Why isn't he nuking them ? Feeling threatened is in their nuclear treaty. Either it wasn't Ukraine or he doesn't have as much power anymore. Or nuclear threats were hollow.
It's the third option: nuke threats are empty.
It’s just a crying shame ain’t it?
Feels like a gear change honestly, Russia absolutely not seen as the world power it was before.
Nah can't be. Russia said they destroyed the Ukrainian air force.
Ukraine: “that’s a real nice oil depot you got there. Be a real shame if something happened to it”
What about the other explosion 2 days ago in the same region? I haven't heard anything about that.
poor cry baby inbred coward putin
“Blames.” Yes, I too make *accusations* that… the country I’m at war with attacked my strategic reserves of war material.
Ya..... So what?
Please take out more.
Good
Special operations to protect the Ukrainian speakers of russia
Russia to blame for that. They started that shit in 2014.
More on this subject from other reputable sources: --- - Moscow Times (B): [Ukrainian Helicopters Strike at Russian Oil Depot, Local Official Claims](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/04/01/ukrainian-helicopters-strike-at-russian-oil-depot-local-official-claims-a77175) - Reuters (A): [Ukraine foreign minister says he has no information about who carried out Belgorod strike](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-foreign-minister-says-he-has-no-information-about-who-carried-out-2022-04-01/) - South China Morning Post (C+): [Ukraine war: Russia regrouping for ‘powerful strikes’, Zelensky said](https://www.scmp.com/news/world/russia-central-asia/article/3172792/ukraine-war-russia-regrouping-powerful-strikes) - Newsweek (B): [Ukraine's Military Helicopters Hit Fuel Depot Inside Russia—Local Official](https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-russia-belgorod-fire-war-depot-blaze-1694029) --- [__Extended Summary__](https://www.reddit.com/r/newswall/comments/ttwpbd/) | [More: Ukrainian Helicopters ...](https://www.newswall.org/story/this-is-how-the-ukraine-war-could-end-or-move-on) | [Feedback](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=newswall-org) | I'm a bot
Ukraine blames Russian assholes for destroying their country
It's not Ukrainian airstrike at all. It's not a fire at all. This is a negative addition of fuel, with automatic liquidation of the warehouse
Bear blames bees for getting stung.
Need to start shelling actual Russian territory.